August 28, 2025 • 20 mins
Stop the costly cycle of hiring and retraining. The “grass is greener”' mentality destroys law firms by driving constant turnover and training costs.
Most retention problems stem from poor performance management and a lack of systematic employee development frameworks. This episode reveals the accountability system we used at Sterling Lawyers to build long-term team commitment through structured goal-setting, regular coaching check-ins, and clear career development pathways that transformed our culture and fueled our growth to a 32-attorney team.
You'll also learn why job-hopping indicates deeper performance issues and how intentional leadership development creates the foundation for sustainable firm growth.
📲 Subscribe Now: https://www.youtube.com/@karls.anthony
📝 Schedule a FREE Family Law Firm Audit: https://rocketclicks.com/schedule-a-family-law-quick-audit/
---
📄 CHAPTERS
0:00 - Law Firm Staff Retention: Why Your Team Keeps Leaving
2:31 - The Escapism Problem: When Staff Blame Everything But Performance
6:17 - Job Hopping Pattern Recognition: What Resumes Really Tell You
8:34 - Poor Performance Fuels The Urge To Leave: The Real Problem
14:44 - Goal-Setting Framework: Building Accountability Culture That Works
17:22 - Three-Year Development Plans: Creating Clear Career Pathways
Curious to discover your personalized roadmap to scaling a law firm, no matter where you are in the business?
Follow these steps:
1. BOOK A FREE 30-MINUTE AUDIT WITH US: https://rocketclicks.com/schedule-a-family-law-quick-audit/
2. CONNECT WITH US:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthonykarls/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tylerdolph/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-clicks
Facebook: http://facebook.com/2311.karls.anthony
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61577369996484
http://facebook.com/RocketClicks
Instagram: http://instagram.com/karls.anthony
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Are your intake specialistsalways chasing the next best thing?
(00:04):
Are you tired of rehiring and retrainingbecause they think the grass
is always greener?
This episode is for you.
I am Tyler Dolph,CEO of our agency Rocket Clicks.
It is a digital advertising agencysolely focused on helping family
law firms generate more leadsand turn those leads into revenue.
(00:25):
And with me today is Anthony Carls.
He is the president of our agencyand also the co-founder of our law firm,
Sterling Lawyers, which has grownto over 32 family law attorneys.
In this episode, we're talking aboutthe myth of job hopping in a law firm.
Why this happens,why the whole grass is greener.
(00:46):
Theory is is wrong.
And what law firm leaders can doto protect their team
from chasing illusions instead of buildingsuccess where they are.
I really hope you enjoy it.
think we've talked about thisa lot internally at both our law firm
and our agency, where, you know,maybe you have a younger,
(01:07):
team member, and they get, recruiterreaching out to them and,
you know, they hop overto some new company with the thought
that it's going to be the greatest thingever, only to realize maybe it's not.
Maybe it's not as great.
And so today we're going to talk throughkind of five ideologies
or theoriesas it relates to greener pastures.
(01:27):
Totally.
The first one being that the greener pastures mentality is often just skepticism.
Yeah.
It's usually.
It's usually, escapism. Like, how do you.
How do you escape fromyour current reality and kind of
not deal with what's in front of youand kind of, Because oftentimes
(01:50):
there's, like, there's always there'salways two sides to every situation.
Right? And oftentimes weespecially in today's culture,
we overly become victimsand like are conditioned to believe victim
mentality is okay.
And we kind of have a lot of self-talk.
It's really not healthy. Andwhat ends up happening is we kind of get
(02:14):
sold by a, a greener pastures.
And the reality is like all the problemsI have today, they're going to like,
come with me to that new place.
And I really just needI need to deal with me.
I need to deal with me and, like,what's holding me back.
I understand, like,why I'm not successful versus blaming
the situation or boss or manageror whatever.
(02:37):
As the problem.
And there might be like, there's alwayslegitimate circumstances there,
but we see this like recruitingwhere you see
a job hopping resumethat and like,
you know, we're talking salesprimarily in this series,
but this happens with all team members.
(02:57):
This is not just a a sales thing.
This we've seen this with attorneys.
We we joked we joked recently,Jeff Hughes and I about
one of our first shoes,our first third hire, maybe fourth.
I can't remember what number,but she joined.
(03:18):
We looked at her resume.
Then she had bounced around.
She had like three different jobsfor years.
Each time she was with us for four years.
She then went somewhere else.
She signed with them for four years.
Now she's somewhere else,kind of followed it.
It's like that pattern that it shows upand, and,
it's just interesting because it's,it's from our from my perspective,
(03:40):
from my experience, it's detrimentalto long term impact and growth and earning
potential.
Yeah. It's interesting.
I think it probably follows culture.
If you look back at, you know, our parentsand especially our grandparents,
they were in their job for 20, 30 years.
They retired at their first jobor maybe their second job.
(04:03):
Definitely not the culture anymore.
The culture.
Today's environment is go to a place.
You try and use it as a launchpadfor whatever's next, and just try and,
you know, get that raise or get that nextsalary bump job after job.
But I think to your point,the problem there is you're
not actually developing any solid skills.
(04:24):
You're not leveling up as an individual,even if, hey, you're getting paid
a little bit more each time.
There's got to be a ceiling there.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
And I think it'sI think oftentimes in these circumstances,
the, you see people thatwill, will jump around and like continue
to, to jump and climb a ladder.
(04:45):
And those are slightlydifferent circumstances.
But what you'll, what you'll seemore often that's like a that's, that's
those are what I would call special cases.
More often you'll see the same exact titleover and over and over again
at a whole bunch of different places.
And really, what that should bean indication is poor performance.
And it's like it's really an opportunityfor reflection.
Like something about whatI'm doing isn't working,
(05:08):
because now the common thread is like,I'm in this role continuously.
I'm not progressing in this role ever.
Like I'm always.
specialist now for law Right.
Exactly.
Yeah, that's that's fascinating.
And, to me,the solve is is building a great culture,
(05:29):
being able to grow and developyour team members, you know,
but there's there's just this, it's it'sthat there's just a culture of Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean I think what's really important,unless you know, we do
talk about with our sales team,we do it with our all team.
If you're not constantly trying to trainand develop
(05:52):
new skills like you're,you're you're probably doing it wrong.
Like there's something off, because ifyou're not actually trying to get better,
other people are. They're passing you off.
So like, that's,you know, in a culture
where you are doing that,you require that, your team,
everybody grows.
(06:14):
But those that don't reallywant to be a part of that,
they'll they'll often leave.
And the reality is like they leavebecause they don't want to develop.
They want to just be here, be comfortable.
I just want to do my 9 to 5.
I want to just punch in and punch out.
I don't really want to invest.
I don't want to get better.
I went to school for, you know what,I school and I went to
(06:34):
college and I went to law school,and I just want to do this now.
Don't bother me.
It's like, okay,that's the best, you know, are
and you're going to upand you just it's, you know, often
that leads to poor performance.
And people thenwant to leave because
the situation is the situationisn't working out, quote unquote.
(06:57):
And reality is likeyou're not you're not changing.
I didn't change the world foreverfor all of us, are you?
Not if you're not using AI rightnow, don't be surprised
when the world changesand you're frustrated.
But that's that's like that's on you.
That's not, that's not my fault.
It's a tool.
If you don't use the tool,you're going to be left behind.
(07:19):
And someone's probablygonna have to tell you that I think, you
know, our second point here is that poorperformance fuels the urge to leave.
Right?
So let's say that you haven't been growingand developing as an individual,
as an intake specialist,or in a sales role or whatever it is.
Well, then someone's going to have togive you that perspective at some point.
You know, some boss, some manager is goingto say, listen, you're not performing,
(07:42):
you're not doingwhat you need to be doing.
And in that moment, it's it'sfight or flight.
It's okay, I'm going to double downand get better or no, this isn't for me.
My bosses mean, you know,I better find something else.
Yeah. We found that.
It's like all, it's all it's an integral.
We've had it with Turing's.
We have here at theagency with different tools.
You know when you,when you have a coach that actually cares,
(08:03):
it's critical feedbackbecause they want that person to develop
into like what they've said.
They want to develop into.
Like, if you tell me you want to be I'mnot the greatest CEO in the world.
When I tell you all your flawsand you decide that
you don't really do like, oh, I can't,I can't do this here.
(08:24):
This team sucks.
They don't know how to grow.
They don't know me.
They're no whateveryou're that's that's a new problem
because I you're going to complainabout the opportunity.
You're going to complain about the team.
You're going to complainabout all this stuff.
And that's typicallywhat what we end up seeing is the
it's typically poor performance.
Or I want to push this personto continue to grow.
(08:46):
And it's like, I don't want that.
I don't want to grow.
I don't want to get better.
And really want your coaching,your your bosses
saying maybe not directly, maybenot as clearly as you want to hear it is.
I don't want you to get passed up.
I don't want you to lose this opportunity.
I don't want, you know, the nextbest person to come in and take your job.
(09:07):
So I want you to continue growing.
I want you to be here. I want you to grow.
I want you to achieve your goalsthat you filter.
So I just think it's really important.
I mean, this is, You see this everywhere.
Not just in business,but in sports, right?
Where a poor performer iseither going to double down and step up,
or they're going to complain and whine andgo to the press and and demand a trade.
(09:28):
Yeah, exactly.
So our third pointis more on the other side of the fence.
You know, when you're hiring someoneand you kind of mentioned this
a little bit earlier, is that frequentjob changes actually hurt your long term
earning kind of maximization?
You know, the short term may helpyou make may changing jobs.
(09:49):
You may get that pay bump.
But over time, if you're really lookingto maximize your earning
potential, it'sactually going to hurt you.
Yeah.
I think that's especially truein the legal space with attorneys.
Because what the current firmowner is looking for
is someone that's going to come inand like they want to grow this business,
they want to grow this firm.
(10:12):
They want to see that overa season of time that's not insignificant.
And that's where, you know,becoming a potential income partner
or becoming an equity partner in a firm.
That's where it comes from.
It comes from that long term,long term investment,
long term sweat equity, long terminvestment of of time
(10:33):
that comes from thatobviously good performance as well.
But like you mayyou may not be the top performer,
but you may be consistentlylike the third, third
or fourth best person in the firm of,you know, whatever size.
And but you're always there.
You always show up.
You always have a great attitude.
You're always helping the team get better.
(10:54):
You're always saying all the thingsthat actually make the business work.
That's the personthat's going to get that opportunity.
It's so rare.
And we see this both at our own firmand with our clients.
Firms.
You know, they don't ever bring in.
Oh, I'm goingto bring in an equity partner tomorrow.
It's.
Well,this person's been here for eight years.
(11:15):
They've been consistent.
And now we've promoted them to an equitypartner.
Let's have a Yeah, yeah.
So I think they definitely, like you said,I think it can help in the short term,
but I think kind of like a bigger scale.
It definitely damages long term potential.
the fourth pointwe're thinking about is the idea of focus
(11:38):
that if you can, can can be consistent,if you can focus on growth,
you are going to win in the long run.
And, again,back to just the cultural norms, right?
Everybody wants instant gratification.
They want it now. They want it yesterday.
But that's not how life works.
It's not how business works.
It's not how law firms work.
And so being able to be consistentand stay focused has got to be the key.
(12:00):
Right.
Yeah.
And I would if, you know, we'vewe saw our growth
at Sterling really explodewhen we got focused.
And it's because what ended up happeningis all of us started getting reps
on theexact same thing over and over again.
And, you know, you work.
The rule of 10,000 hours comes into play.
(12:21):
And the closer you get to that, withall of the different skills that you need,
because you're staying focused,you're staying in the same industry,
you're staying in the same,you know, type of role,
but you're leveling up your skills.
You become the expert, you can learnleadership skills, you can start
mentoring.
You really start to seeyour responsibilities expand and grow.
(12:43):
And so because you stay focusedin the long run about where you are,
where your path is, you'renot looking for something next week.
That's often, especially with,with younger folks.
You know, we want,instant gratification.
Like we a lot of us have been conditionednow with cell phones and social media to,
(13:05):
like, Chasethe instant gratification of that
or even even Amazon, even,you know, Instacart.
You can order.
Well, I just saw an emailcome through from my wife.
She put in an Instacart order from Costco,and it's going to get
delivered to our daughterlike it's all instant gratification.
Right. So it's hard to likein the real world when I got to build
(13:26):
and stack skills over a time period,it's hard to like disconnect from the
everything should happen todaytype world we live in.
what you know.
Final point. What?
What do we do about it?
What can we do is, as leaders, businessesand law firms
to be able to kind of curb this trend.
(13:48):
Yeah.
One thing that we do iswe are so intentional with with goals. So,
I think it's extraordinarily importantfor law firm owners,
especially to start with themand then work with your
most influential team membersand then work with your whole team
on setting up personal, professional,financial goals on a 1 to 3
(14:09):
and five year time horizonand then bring those into coaching like
the team member will feel like you careabout what they're trying to accomplish
in their whole life, and you'llthen have the opportunity
to hold them accountable to those goals.
You told me you want X,how are we doing that?
X you know, one of your,you know, one of my
one of my goals for this year is I want toI feel like I'm not I'm
(14:33):
no longer in this period of my lifewhere I want to be a bodybuilder.
Like, I want to get.
I'm like, I've been at 275for about five years and both up a ton.
I want to get my weight down.
I don't want to lose lots of muscle mass,but like, I want to, I want to get down.
So I track it.
It's on my PPF goals.
It's something that I write downevery single morning in my notes.
(14:56):
So, you know, if you create a culturelike that, you create accountability
and you start to see things happen.
And oftentimes, you know, therethat may be the first time
someone's actually invested in,in them.
Like,if you're if you're running a law firm,
it's very likelythey've never had a boss
(15:17):
actually ask them what their goals are.
But that won't be a surprise.
It'll be it'll be surprises. Team member.
You might be surprised in that experience,because
you'll be probably asked themand then actually had them present.
It actually had them hold accountable.
And we're going to talk about theseevery two weeks.
And then we're going to developa development plan for the next year
(15:39):
about how we're going to worktowards these goals.
And it, it just changes changes the game.
It helps the team memberssee where their future could be.
You know,especially with our our team members here.
That rocket looks you know,I want all of them
to have like very clear, very clear pure.
(16:00):
My next three moveslike I need to develop x, y and z.
This is what it's going to mean for mefrom a title change.
Who doesn't mean for me it can't change.
And this is what we're goingto be talking about.
And once I do that, here's the next one.
I want to do that.
Here's the next one I likeI can see like okay, like here's
my next three years of development.
Like I know I'm going to grow hereand that's going to be really rare.
(16:20):
And that can really help curb the jobhopping, create accountability,
create a culture of growth.
I think all that's really important.
Yeah. I mean, if you're listening to this.
This is not just theory.
Like we have spent so much time and energyin building
this goal oriented, orientated culture,and it hasn't been easy.
(16:41):
And, you know, some team membershaven't haven't enjoyed the accountability
of, like,hey, if you write down your goals, we're
going to hold you accountable to themand we're going to talk to you about them.
And so, if you're listening to thisand you want to implement this, know that,
it's going to be bumpyand you're going to take it's
going to take time to really shiftyour culture to more of
(17:01):
one focused on growth and development.
But it is so worth it.
It is so gratifying as a leaderto watch your team
level up and achieve goals that thatmaybe they didn't even think were possible
when they wrote them down.
So it is 100% worth it.
Yeah.
I mean, it's it's it's it's a small thing,and it's easily overlooked.
(17:27):
But as a business owner,you know, the thing that you care,
the thing that keeps you upat night is like, I got payroll to run,
and two weeks I got a lifestylethat I created for my family.
I want toI want to make sure that continues.
That's really stressful.
What whatthat business owner really wants is
someone that is on their teamthat continues to hit their goals.
(17:48):
They see that over time becausethen they can trust them and that now
that's how partnerships get created.
That's actually how long term earningpotential grows, because
now they see it's not just likeraising my hand and saying,
I want this, I want this, I want this,but I'm not willing to do anything for it.
It's I want this.
(18:10):
What do you want from me?
Here's what I've done.
Here's how I continue to support you.
Here's how you doso we're both continuing to grow
and you just see it.
It's just a differentit's a different approach.
And it takes time.
And I think that's partof the biggest issue.
It's like you got to be patient.
You just got to invest.
Like sometimes,I think oftentimes in success,
(18:31):
people quitright before they're at the finish line.
You're like,yeah, you're like 95 yards
down the field and you're like five yardsaway from the goal and you're like, oh,
screw it for the flag.
And we're done.
We're going to quit. That's like,why are we quitting?
Like you're so close, like you've beenworking on all of this and like, you,
(18:52):
you give it up on yourself.
Like, don't give up on yourselfhappens. So.
of the accountability piece is thateven if you give up on yourself,
your team member, your coach,your manager is here to to not give up
Yeah, yeah.
Help raise your belief lid.
Like I think that's part of the problem.
Like you haveyou have, you know,
(19:15):
you have really good individualcontributors that want to keep one.
And basicallyyou're going to give them skills.
They're not. You're going to ask them todevelop skills are not good at.
And what becomes hardis that team member is an A-plus
in a bunch of different things.
And you said, I want you toI want you to grow here.
You're a C at this.
And we forget what it tookto become an A-plus over here
(19:35):
because we're already there.
We forgot all the painthat all happened in the past.
We had to do the same thingwith the C plus skill and get that up.
And like, where we.
Where you see,that is like the frustration of,
like that growthbecause it's hard and it's not linear.
It's likeit's almost like circular.
And you go forward one stepforward two steps, one step backwards
(19:56):
forward two steps, one step backwards.
And like that's how it should feel.
That's how it's going to feel.
So being patientwith getting in that season
and just kind of enjoying the process isthe biggest piece of advice I can give.
It's so good.
I'm, like, just jacked up thinkingabout all the things we've done and.
(20:19):
And the journeythat it's taking to get there.
If you loved this episode.
On the Grass is Always Greener theory.
You will love this entire seriesthat we're doing on sales in a law firm,
but specifically, you'll lovethe next episode, which you can find
right here, which is all on the commitmentit takes to succeed in law firm sales.
(20:40):
We're diving into whatreal commitment looks like
and how to build it into your salesculture.
Make sure to check it outand we will see you there.
Are your intake specialistsalways chasing the next best thing?
(00:04):
Are you tired of rehiring and retrainingbecause they think the grass
is always greener?
This episode is for you.
I am Tyler Dolph,CEO of our agency Rocket Clicks.
It is a digital advertising agencysolely focused on helping family
law firms generate more leadsand turn those leads into revenue.
(00:25):
And with me today is Anthony Carls.
He is the president of our agencyand also the co-founder of our law firm,
Sterling Lawyers, which has grownto over 32 family law attorneys.
In this episode, we're talking aboutthe myth of job hopping in a law firm.
Why this happens,why the whole grass is greener.
(00:46):
Theory is is wrong.
And what law firm leaders can doto protect their team
from chasing illusions instead of buildingsuccess where they are.
I really hope you enjoy it.
think we've talked about thisa lot internally at both our law firm
and our agency, where, you know,maybe you have a younger,
(01:07):
team member, and they get, recruiterreaching out to them and,
you know, they hop overto some new company with the thought
that it's going to be the greatest thingever, only to realize maybe it's not.
Maybe it's not as great.
And so today we're going to talk throughkind of five ideologies
or theoriesas it relates to greener pastures.
(01:27):
Totally.
The first one being that the greener pastures mentality is often just skepticism.
Yeah.
It's usually.
It's usually, escapism. Like, how do you.
How do you escape fromyour current reality and kind of
not deal with what's in front of youand kind of, Because oftentimes
(01:50):
there's, like, there's always there'salways two sides to every situation.
Right? And oftentimes weespecially in today's culture,
we overly become victimsand like are conditioned to believe victim
mentality is okay.
And we kind of have a lot of self-talk.
It's really not healthy. Andwhat ends up happening is we kind of get
(02:14):
sold by a, a greener pastures.
And the reality is like all the problemsI have today, they're going to like,
come with me to that new place.
And I really just needI need to deal with me.
I need to deal with me and, like,what's holding me back.
I understand, like,why I'm not successful versus blaming
the situation or boss or manageror whatever.
(02:37):
As the problem.
And there might be like, there's alwayslegitimate circumstances there,
but we see this like recruitingwhere you see
a job hopping resumethat and like,
you know, we're talking salesprimarily in this series,
but this happens with all team members.
(02:57):
This is not just a a sales thing.
This we've seen this with attorneys.
We we joked we joked recently,Jeff Hughes and I about
one of our first shoes,our first third hire, maybe fourth.
I can't remember what number,but she joined.
(03:18):
We looked at her resume.
Then she had bounced around.
She had like three different jobsfor years.
Each time she was with us for four years.
She then went somewhere else.
She signed with them for four years.
Now she's somewhere else,kind of followed it.
It's like that pattern that it shows upand, and,
it's just interesting because it's,it's from our from my perspective,
(03:40):
from my experience, it's detrimentalto long term impact and growth and earning
potential.
Yeah. It's interesting.
I think it probably follows culture.
If you look back at, you know, our parentsand especially our grandparents,
they were in their job for 20, 30 years.
They retired at their first jobor maybe their second job.
(04:03):
Definitely not the culture anymore.
The culture.
Today's environment is go to a place.
You try and use it as a launchpadfor whatever's next, and just try and,
you know, get that raise or get that nextsalary bump job after job.
But I think to your point,the problem there is you're
not actually developing any solid skills.
(04:24):
You're not leveling up as an individual,even if, hey, you're getting paid
a little bit more each time.
There's got to be a ceiling there.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
And I think it'sI think oftentimes in these circumstances,
the, you see people thatwill, will jump around and like continue
to, to jump and climb a ladder.
(04:45):
And those are slightlydifferent circumstances.
But what you'll, what you'll seemore often that's like a that's, that's
those are what I would call special cases.
More often you'll see the same exact titleover and over and over again
at a whole bunch of different places.
And really, what that should bean indication is poor performance.
And it's like it's really an opportunityfor reflection.
Like something about whatI'm doing isn't working,
(05:08):
because now the common thread is like,I'm in this role continuously.
I'm not progressing in this role ever.
Like I'm always.
specialist now for law Right.
Exactly.
Yeah, that's that's fascinating.
And, to me,the solve is is building a great culture,
(05:29):
being able to grow and developyour team members, you know,
but there's there's just this, it's it'sthat there's just a culture of Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean I think what's really important,unless you know, we do
talk about with our sales team,we do it with our all team.
If you're not constantly trying to trainand develop
(05:52):
new skills like you're,you're you're probably doing it wrong.
Like there's something off, because ifyou're not actually trying to get better,
other people are. They're passing you off.
So like, that's,you know, in a culture
where you are doing that,you require that, your team,
everybody grows.
(06:14):
But those that don't reallywant to be a part of that,
they'll they'll often leave.
And the reality is like they leavebecause they don't want to develop.
They want to just be here, be comfortable.
I just want to do my 9 to 5.
I want to just punch in and punch out.
I don't really want to invest.
I don't want to get better.
I went to school for, you know what,I school and I went to
(06:34):
college and I went to law school,and I just want to do this now.
Don't bother me.
It's like, okay,that's the best, you know, are
and you're going to upand you just it's, you know, often
that leads to poor performance.
And people thenwant to leave because
the situation is the situationisn't working out, quote unquote.
(06:57):
And reality is likeyou're not you're not changing.
I didn't change the world foreverfor all of us, are you?
Not if you're not using AI rightnow, don't be surprised
when the world changesand you're frustrated.
But that's that's like that's on you.
That's not, that's not my fault.
It's a tool.
If you don't use the tool,you're going to be left behind.
(07:19):
And someone's probablygonna have to tell you that I think, you
know, our second point here is that poorperformance fuels the urge to leave.
Right?
So let's say that you haven't been growingand developing as an individual,
as an intake specialist,or in a sales role or whatever it is.
Well, then someone's going to have togive you that perspective at some point.
You know, some boss, some manager is goingto say, listen, you're not performing,
(07:42):
you're not doingwhat you need to be doing.
And in that moment, it's it'sfight or flight.
It's okay, I'm going to double downand get better or no, this isn't for me.
My bosses mean, you know,I better find something else.
Yeah. We found that.
It's like all, it's all it's an integral.
We've had it with Turing's.
We have here at theagency with different tools.
You know when you,when you have a coach that actually cares,
(08:03):
it's critical feedbackbecause they want that person to develop
into like what they've said.
They want to develop into.
Like, if you tell me you want to be I'mnot the greatest CEO in the world.
When I tell you all your flawsand you decide that
you don't really do like, oh, I can't,I can't do this here.
(08:24):
This team sucks.
They don't know how to grow.
They don't know me.
They're no whateveryou're that's that's a new problem
because I you're going to complainabout the opportunity.
You're going to complain about the team.
You're going to complainabout all this stuff.
And that's typicallywhat what we end up seeing is the
it's typically poor performance.
Or I want to push this personto continue to grow.
(08:46):
And it's like, I don't want that.
I don't want to grow.
I don't want to get better.
And really want your coaching,your your bosses
saying maybe not directly, maybenot as clearly as you want to hear it is.
I don't want you to get passed up.
I don't want you to lose this opportunity.
I don't want, you know, the nextbest person to come in and take your job.
(09:07):
So I want you to continue growing.
I want you to be here. I want you to grow.
I want you to achieve your goalsthat you filter.
So I just think it's really important.
I mean, this is, You see this everywhere.
Not just in business,but in sports, right?
Where a poor performer iseither going to double down and step up,
or they're going to complain and whine andgo to the press and and demand a trade.
(09:28):
Yeah, exactly.
So our third pointis more on the other side of the fence.
You know, when you're hiring someoneand you kind of mentioned this
a little bit earlier, is that frequentjob changes actually hurt your long term
earning kind of maximization?
You know, the short term may helpyou make may changing jobs.
(09:49):
You may get that pay bump.
But over time, if you're really lookingto maximize your earning
potential, it'sactually going to hurt you.
Yeah.
I think that's especially truein the legal space with attorneys.
Because what the current firmowner is looking for
is someone that's going to come inand like they want to grow this business,
they want to grow this firm.
(10:12):
They want to see that overa season of time that's not insignificant.
And that's where, you know,becoming a potential income partner
or becoming an equity partner in a firm.
That's where it comes from.
It comes from that long term,long term investment,
long term sweat equity, long terminvestment of of time
(10:33):
that comes from thatobviously good performance as well.
But like you mayyou may not be the top performer,
but you may be consistentlylike the third, third
or fourth best person in the firm of,you know, whatever size.
And but you're always there.
You always show up.
You always have a great attitude.
You're always helping the team get better.
(10:54):
You're always saying all the thingsthat actually make the business work.
That's the personthat's going to get that opportunity.
It's so rare.
And we see this both at our own firmand with our clients.
Firms.
You know, they don't ever bring in.
Oh, I'm goingto bring in an equity partner tomorrow.
It's.
Well,this person's been here for eight years.
(11:15):
They've been consistent.
And now we've promoted them to an equitypartner.
Let's have a Yeah, yeah.
So I think they definitely, like you said,I think it can help in the short term,
but I think kind of like a bigger scale.
It definitely damages long term potential.
the fourth pointwe're thinking about is the idea of focus
(11:38):
that if you can, can can be consistent,if you can focus on growth,
you are going to win in the long run.
And, again,back to just the cultural norms, right?
Everybody wants instant gratification.
They want it now. They want it yesterday.
But that's not how life works.
It's not how business works.
It's not how law firms work.
And so being able to be consistentand stay focused has got to be the key.
(12:00):
Right.
Yeah.
And I would if, you know, we'vewe saw our growth
at Sterling really explodewhen we got focused.
And it's because what ended up happeningis all of us started getting reps
on theexact same thing over and over again.
And, you know, you work.
The rule of 10,000 hours comes into play.
(12:21):
And the closer you get to that, withall of the different skills that you need,
because you're staying focused,you're staying in the same industry,
you're staying in the same,you know, type of role,
but you're leveling up your skills.
You become the expert, you can learnleadership skills, you can start
mentoring.
You really start to seeyour responsibilities expand and grow.
(12:43):
And so because you stay focusedin the long run about where you are,
where your path is, you'renot looking for something next week.
That's often, especially with,with younger folks.
You know, we want,instant gratification.
Like we a lot of us have been conditionednow with cell phones and social media to,
(13:05):
like, Chasethe instant gratification of that
or even even Amazon, even,you know, Instacart.
You can order.
Well, I just saw an emailcome through from my wife.
She put in an Instacart order from Costco,and it's going to get
delivered to our daughterlike it's all instant gratification.
Right. So it's hard to likein the real world when I got to build
(13:26):
and stack skills over a time period,it's hard to like disconnect from the
everything should happen todaytype world we live in.
what you know.
Final point. What?
What do we do about it?
What can we do is, as leaders, businessesand law firms
to be able to kind of curb this trend.
(13:48):
Yeah.
One thing that we do iswe are so intentional with with goals. So,
I think it's extraordinarily importantfor law firm owners,
especially to start with themand then work with your
most influential team membersand then work with your whole team
on setting up personal, professional,financial goals on a 1 to 3
(14:09):
and five year time horizonand then bring those into coaching like
the team member will feel like you careabout what they're trying to accomplish
in their whole life, and you'llthen have the opportunity
to hold them accountable to those goals.
You told me you want X,how are we doing that?
X you know, one of your,you know, one of my
one of my goals for this year is I want toI feel like I'm not I'm
(14:33):
no longer in this period of my lifewhere I want to be a bodybuilder.
Like, I want to get.
I'm like, I've been at 275for about five years and both up a ton.
I want to get my weight down.
I don't want to lose lots of muscle mass,but like, I want to, I want to get down.
So I track it.
It's on my PPF goals.
It's something that I write downevery single morning in my notes.
(14:56):
So, you know, if you create a culturelike that, you create accountability
and you start to see things happen.
And oftentimes, you know, therethat may be the first time
someone's actually invested in,in them.
Like,if you're if you're running a law firm,
it's very likelythey've never had a boss
(15:17):
actually ask them what their goals are.
But that won't be a surprise.
It'll be it'll be surprises. Team member.
You might be surprised in that experience,because
you'll be probably asked themand then actually had them present.
It actually had them hold accountable.
And we're going to talk about theseevery two weeks.
And then we're going to developa development plan for the next year
(15:39):
about how we're going to worktowards these goals.
And it, it just changes changes the game.
It helps the team memberssee where their future could be.
You know,especially with our our team members here.
That rocket looks you know,I want all of them
to have like very clear, very clear pure.
(16:00):
My next three moveslike I need to develop x, y and z.
This is what it's going to mean for mefrom a title change.
Who doesn't mean for me it can't change.
And this is what we're goingto be talking about.
And once I do that, here's the next one.
I want to do that.
Here's the next one I likeI can see like okay, like here's
my next three years of development.
Like I know I'm going to grow hereand that's going to be really rare.
(16:20):
And that can really help curb the jobhopping, create accountability,
create a culture of growth.
I think all that's really important.
Yeah. I mean, if you're listening to this.
This is not just theory.
Like we have spent so much time and energyin building
this goal oriented, orientated culture,and it hasn't been easy.
(16:41):
And, you know, some team membershaven't haven't enjoyed the accountability
of, like,hey, if you write down your goals, we're
going to hold you accountable to themand we're going to talk to you about them.
And so, if you're listening to thisand you want to implement this, know that,
it's going to be bumpyand you're going to take it's
going to take time to really shiftyour culture to more of
(17:01):
one focused on growth and development.
But it is so worth it.
It is so gratifying as a leaderto watch your team
level up and achieve goals that thatmaybe they didn't even think were possible
when they wrote them down.
So it is 100% worth it.
Yeah.
I mean, it's it's it's it's a small thing,and it's easily overlooked.
(17:27):
But as a business owner,you know, the thing that you care,
the thing that keeps you upat night is like, I got payroll to run,
and two weeks I got a lifestylethat I created for my family.
I want toI want to make sure that continues.
That's really stressful.
What whatthat business owner really wants is
someone that is on their teamthat continues to hit their goals.
(17:48):
They see that over time becausethen they can trust them and that now
that's how partnerships get created.
That's actually how long term earningpotential grows, because
now they see it's not just likeraising my hand and saying,
I want this, I want this, I want this,but I'm not willing to do anything for it.
It's I want this.
(18:10):
What do you want from me?
Here's what I've done.
Here's how I continue to support you.
Here's how you doso we're both continuing to grow
and you just see it.
It's just a differentit's a different approach.
And it takes time.
And I think that's partof the biggest issue.
It's like you got to be patient.
You just got to invest.
Like sometimes,I think oftentimes in success,
(18:31):
people quitright before they're at the finish line.
You're like,yeah, you're like 95 yards
down the field and you're like five yardsaway from the goal and you're like, oh,
screw it for the flag.
And we're done.
We're going to quit. That's like,why are we quitting?
Like you're so close, like you've beenworking on all of this and like, you,
(18:52):
you give it up on yourself.
Like, don't give up on yourselfhappens. So.
of the accountability piece is thateven if you give up on yourself,
your team member, your coach,your manager is here to to not give up
Yeah, yeah.
Help raise your belief lid.
Like I think that's part of the problem.
Like you haveyou have, you know,
(19:15):
you have really good individualcontributors that want to keep one.
And basicallyyou're going to give them skills.
They're not. You're going to ask them todevelop skills are not good at.
And what becomes hardis that team member is an A-plus
in a bunch of different things.
And you said, I want you toI want you to grow here.
You're a C at this.
And we forget what it tookto become an A-plus over here
(19:35):
because we're already there.
We forgot all the painthat all happened in the past.
We had to do the same thingwith the C plus skill and get that up.
And like, where we.
Where you see,that is like the frustration of,
like that growthbecause it's hard and it's not linear.
It's likeit's almost like circular.
And you go forward one stepforward two steps, one step backwards
(19:56):
forward two steps, one step backwards.
And like that's how it should feel.
That's how it's going to feel.
So being patientwith getting in that season
and just kind of enjoying the process isthe biggest piece of advice I can give.
It's so good.
I'm, like, just jacked up thinkingabout all the things we've done and.
(20:19):
And the journeythat it's taking to get there.
If you loved this episode.
On the Grass is Always Greener theory.
You will love this entire seriesthat we're doing on sales in a law firm,
but specifically, you'll lovethe next episode, which you can find
right here, which is all on the commitmentit takes to succeed in law firm sales.
(20:40):
We're diving into whatreal commitment looks like
and how to build it into your salesculture.
Make sure to check it outand we will see you there.
Popular Podcasts
Hey Jonas!
Hey Jonas! The official Jonas Brothers podcast. Hosted by Kevin, Joe, and Nick Jonas. It’s the Jonas Brothers you know... musicians, actors, and well, yes, brothers. Now, they’re sharing another side of themselves in the playful, intimate, and irreverent way only they can. Spend time with the Jonas Brothers here and stay a little bit longer for deep conversations like never before.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.