Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
as a reminder,hiring people is the same as sales.
(00:03):
our agency,when we're selling our final, meeting
with the prospectis to review the contract in person.
Because I want to see facial expressions.
I want to understand,like where their hesitations as we're
going through the terms and conditions.
And the same is true with the offerletter.
Right?
Welcome back to the Sterling FamilyLaw Show.
I am your host, Tyler Dolph.
(00:24):
I'm also the CEO of our family law firm,only marketing agency that was born
out of our own law firm, Sterling Lawyers,that has grown to over 27 attorneys.
Today we are concluding our hiring series.
This this episode is entitledThe Offer Letter,
but it is not as easy as simplyjust sending the offer letter.
(00:45):
There is a lot that is involvedand we break that down for you here.
And it's not the, the episode could be,like, one minute, send the offer letter,
wait to get signed back.
But there's actually much more involved,than just simply sending the offer
letter. So.
So if you give us ajust a timeline. Right.
So you you have this final interviewafter the final interview is over,
(01:07):
what's our process to get that signto offer a letter at the end?
Yeah.
So obviously you're goingto want to debrief with the stakeholders,
the hiring manager, your head ofpeople operations, any other key
leadership team members who are involved.
You're gonna want to validate the hire.
You know, we've we've a sayingwe've bandied around internally,
if it's not a hell yes, it's a hell no.
Like, you want to be really confidentby this point,
(01:28):
but you've had an operational interview,you've had a culture interview,
you've got a final,you've got a really good chance
to get aligned with this personon what they're
stepping into from a value standpoint.
So you should be able to,within just a few days,
make a decision on whetherthis is the right person for the role
and whether you want to move forward.
And at that point, what you don't dois just out of an offer letter.
What you should do is schedule a follow upconversation, with the person who's
(01:52):
going to be leading this to talk throughwhat it looks like to take next steps
to join your company,because you want to lock down
expectations, timelines,give them space to ask any questions, and
make sure that you are fully in agreementas you move forward.
Yes. I as a reminder,hiring people is the same as sales.
And at our agency,when we're selling our final,
(02:15):
meeting with the prospectis to review the contract in person.
Because I want to see facial expressions.
I want to understand,like where their hesitations as we're
going through the terms and conditions.
And the same is truewith the offer letter. Right?
100%.
Yeah.
And for the, family law firm ownersthat are listening, it's the.
(02:36):
We probably don't have all the rulesat JP rattle off
depending on the size of our firm.
So, like, you're really working with,you know, if, if,
if they're going to be workingwith a paralegal.
So if it's smaller firm,it's probably you.
And like,what's really going to work
at working with and what's thewhat's the peer
that they're going to have internally,the attorney peer that they're going to
(02:56):
have that you really respect.
If, you know,if you have a managing partner,
they should be the one signing off on it.
In this process as well.
So like there'sthe players are going to look different,
but it's literally the same process.
You're going to want to get perspective,you know,
up sideways and down in terms of like howhow the team feels about the person
(03:18):
coming in, especially for an attorneybecause they're, they're going to
they're they're integratedin so many different ways in a law firm,
which is different than an agency.
You know, we hire a paid search person,you know, they're really kind
of just functioning with their department,with their own peers.
There's not a whole lot of like,interaction with sales, for instance,
(03:40):
there's, you know, it's it's prettylimited in terms of where their scope.
So it's important to like includeother people in the firm
in the vetting process because like that'syou're building a culture and you're
either going to create a potential issueor you're going to reinforce what you're
what you're trying to build with that,with the feedback from your team.
Hundred 100 percent.
Let's transition into hiccups or,roadblocks that we have encountered
(04:02):
during the offer process.
Either maybe they got a counterofferfrom their current, you know, firm,
or they want to extend out the timelineto when they transition
or they, you know, the the compensation.
There was a misalignment.
J.P., give us some of those roadblocks inhow how to get over.
(04:24):
Yeah.
So obviously there's a there'sa bunch of factors to consider here.
If they're currently, working somewherewith their currently employed,
hopefully you found outearly in the process why they're leaving.
And what you talk through with themis how the pain
that they're experiencing today,whether that's around compensation,
growth, opportunity,culture is being addressed in this move.
(04:48):
You want to reinforce that, you know, hey,you told us that one of the things
you're really looking for in your nextposition is and we've talked about
how do you feel likethat's going to be solved? Yeah.
Do you feel likethis is like you want to hear them own
the fact that they're movingtowards something they want,
because that's going to help themif they get a counteroffer,
to help them say, no, I'm committed.
This is the right decision.
So that's a, that's a big one that helpsget rid of some of those roadblocks
(05:09):
you talked about around counter offers.
Timelines.
You do want to have an expectationof when this person needs to start.
And given appropriate notice.
I will say that it's generally a good signif the person you're hiring is employed
currently and is giving a substantialnotice to their current employer,
that's a good signthey're going to do it for you, too.
So that's not necessarily a red flag.
(05:29):
If they're saying, hey,I want to give two, three, four weeks.
I'd love to start with you in 30 days.
That's pretty reasonable.
If they're giving you, you know, 60,90 days or something like that,
it's probably worth digging into.
Is there something else going on?
Another thing you couldconsider is like talking about timelines
and bringing them on.
Is there something in that starting periodthat is going to create a hiccup
to their onboarding?
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Oh, I've got a big two week vacationplan to Tahiti
to celebrate my 20th anniversarya week after I start.
All right.
Well,I don't really want to start you and then
have you immediately out for two weeks.
That's going to make it really hardfor me to get you ramped up quickly.
Like you want to tryto uncover those things.
Any concerns that are going to come upin the first 30, 60 days,
you know, vacations, trips, surgeries,anything going on that they know about
(06:13):
and can tell you you're tryingto, like, pull that out.
And then, of course, like, I'mgoing to set aside compensation
because that's its own whole conversation.
But you do want to be alignedon expectations in terms
of the whole compensation packagethat you're discussing.
And again, this gets back to like,you know, understanding
what they're leaving,what they're looking for in their next
opportunity, what they're coming from.
(06:34):
So those are some placesyou can kind of backfire on you
that we've seen itand how we try to get ahead of them,
how you want to be proactivein solving those.
Hey, family law firm leaders.
My partner, Tony Karl'sjust released his book where he lays bare
our precise blueprint for growingsterling lawyers from 0 to 17 million.
This is the blueprintthat we still use daily.
(06:54):
And Tony explains it in very simple terms.
The truth is, this is not simple to do.
Success requires and demands hard work.
But if you have the patienceand the work ethic to do
it, your family, law firm will succeed.
if we're going to if we're a transitionin the compensation piece, I think there's
some important things here.
(07:16):
It's real easy to start a team member.
And with a bad taste in their mouthbecause you
you aggressively negotiatedwith them on their salary,
and now they'rethey're disgruntled already,
and they haven't even startedworking with you.
Because if they're running awayfrom something
that is painful and you've just given thema different version of that pain
(07:38):
through, like an aggressive negotiation,you know, that's
that's typically not a good, good thing.
Like, it might feel good that you won thethe negotiation, but you're probably
setting yourself up for,for, conversation
that's going to probablycome out of nowhere,
in a relatively short period of time.
(07:59):
know, we typically take the tact.
We're, we're very transparenton our compensation level
and what expectations areat different levels within our business.
So, you know, in the law firm,you just need to be super clear with what,
what your compensation model is,how that impacts their salary,
how it impacts their bonus potential,what the expectations are,
what are the timelines to get therefrom an expectations perspective,
(08:23):
what are the consequencesof not hitting that in terms of how that
how that changes?
Because what you want to see from them isthis is why you want to present this.
You want to see from them.
What are the what are the nonverbalsyou're getting from them?
Because, you know,maybe you post a position at $120,000.
They're negotiating for 160.
And, you know, now you have a $40,000 gapthat you got to figure out.
(08:47):
What are you going to do with,to retain this talent
that you really want andif you're super transparent
upfront about here's how,here's how the monetary part
of that practice worksand what the expectations are
as it pertains to this,you know, really doesn't matter
what your salary is,if there's very clear alignment
(09:07):
on performance expectationsfrom a production perspective,
because typically attorneys have very highthat it or vested interest in what their,
what they're bringing to the firmfrom a, overall revenue
perspective and how that impactstheir overall compensation.
So, like, if that's a very clearand transparent on how
(09:29):
that how that works,it might not be an issue.
But if you'reif you're not hiding it or
it's not clear or it's kind of ambiguous,there isn't good tracking.
There's not there's not good reporting.
Your you very wellmight be setting yourself up for
a frustrating coaching conversationthat is going to feel like it's
(09:49):
coming out of nowhere for the team member.
So it's like being very transparentand not,
my personal perspective isI don't take a tact of negotiating.
I let them set their own bedand then set very clear expectations
of what that that means in terms of whatthey're getting ready to lie down. And,
because I don'tI don't want people to come in
(10:10):
and feel disgruntled at the front end.
And typically, if you get to this pointand you haven't started
having this type of conversation already,you're already behind the eight ball.
That should be one of the thingsthat you're
you're asking about in the culture interview, in terms of salary expectations.
So that way you'reyou're setting yourself up
well for this conversation,not because you're trying
(10:31):
to figure out how to negotiateand position yourself, but you're
you're already coming to the place of.
All right.
I went through three different interviews.
I like this person.
They fit a range that I was a okay with.
And now I'm going to make thata real offer.
And like, here's what that real offermeans for the candidate.
(10:51):
That's great.
What have you done?
In the past, if there is a,misalignment on salary,
they want 160 the jobs at 120.
How have you, close that gap?
So there's there's obviouslya lot of ways that you can close the gap.
One way is, one if so, if the gapis that big, I wouldn't do this.
(11:15):
So if we were to like shrink that gapto 10,000, one of the things that I would
highly consider is, creatingpart of their salary as a sign on bonus
that's paid out over the first year,of their employment,
especially if it's an attorney and their,their base compensation
is based on their productionfrom a revenue perspective,
(11:36):
because it's going to be very easyfor them to exceed that if it's clear
what their performance objectives are,if they don't hit it
now, there's an easy level down, fromas that annual rises to the next year
because they that was a,it's a sign on bonus that's paid
out over the course of that first year.
So like there's some safeguards there.
(11:58):
If it was 40,000,it's a pretty large gap.
I would say.
That needs to be more of a careerconversation in terms of like,
here's here's where we are.
This is how we think about responsibility.
This is what would need to be achievedfrom a business perspective.
To get there, you know, how do we work,how do we work through that?
(12:21):
And that would be moreof a collaborative conversation
in terms of how are they going to helpthe business get to the place
for that type of compensation for a,for an individual team member as possible.
So like how basically it's nothow are you gonna help us grow
the business conversation so that we canwe can make this right.
And like if we don't hit these objectives,this is what,
(12:44):
what the consequence will be,blah, blah, blah, those types of things.
love it.
Yeah.
So it is simply not just sending the offerletter.
It is walking them through, ensuring thateveryone is aligned on what is expected.
What is expected, as well as, you know,how they're going to impact the firm.
I think we should doanother episode on onboarding,
because that's just as important, right?
Everyone comes in with their culture,battery all the way full.
(13:08):
And if you can create a good 30, 60, 90day onboarding plan for your employees,
you're going to ensure that thatculture battery stays full and
that they don't have any buyer's remorseand leaving their old firm
and coming two years.
Gentlemen, really appreciate your time.
Really enjoyed this series.
Looking forward to the next one.