April 14, 2026 • 40 mins
What if belonging isn’t about finding the right space—but building one?
In this episode of Roar, Danielle Davies sits down with ChivonnAnderson for a conversation about what it really means to feel seen, safe, and fully yourself in the spaces you move through.
Because for many people, especially those navigating identity in layered ways, it’s not just about going out, showing up, or participating.
It’s about whether the space was ever designed with you in mind to begin with.
Danielle and Chivonn explore what happens when that sense of belonging is missing, and what it looks like to create something different.
Together, they talk about:
🔥 The difference between being included and truly belonging
🎤 Why many spaces feel neutral, but aren't actually designed for everyone
🧠 The experience of navigating environments where you're not fully seen
🌿 What makes a space feel safe vs. performative
💥 The decision to build something instead of waiting for it to exist📣 Why specificity matters when creating community
👑 What it means to design a space with intention
⚡ How physical environments shape how we show up
Chivonn's work reminds us that belonging isn't passive, but rather purposefully created, shaped, and protected.
This conversation is for anyone who has ever walked into a space and felt like they had to adjust themselves to fit it.
🔑 Key Takeaways
- Belonging is not the same as inclusion.
- Not all spaces are designed for everyone.
- Feeling safe in a space changes how you show up.
- You can create what doesn't exist.
- Intentional design matters, especially in community spaces.
🔗 Links mentioned in this episode
Marsha's South Street🎧 Related Convos
Building creative communities with Lisa Field
Why representation still matters with Lauren Albrecht
💥 Don't Miss a Conversation!
🎧Follow & Subscribe wherever you podcast
🙋♀️ Want to be on Roar?
🤝 Want to partner with us? danielle@danielledavies.com
🔗 Connect
Website → https://www.danielledavies.com/
#RoarPodcast #ChivonnAnderson #CommunitySpaces #Belonging #WomenAndIdentity #InclusiveSpaces #WomenInBusiness #DanielleDavies
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
When I was younger, I didn't understand why there weren't so
many, you know, queer spaces forwomen.
We got to go back to, you know, women couldn't own credit cards
until 1975. So how the hell are you supposed
to open a business if you can't have your own credit card?
That's Siobhan Anderson, and this is Roar.
(00:24):
Hi everybody, this is Danielle Davies, your host of Roar.
Today's guest saw something missing and decided to build it.
Siobhan Anderson is the founder of Marsha's, Philadelphia's very
first queer women focused sportsbar, and it's located on South
St. What started as a very personal
frustration, wanting to watch women's sports in a place that
actually felt welcoming, became something much bigger, a place
(00:46):
designed intentionally for community, visibility, and joy.
Siobhan's path to opening Marsha's isn't linear.
She brings a wide range of livedexperiences to this work
experience. It informs how she thinks about
leadership, safety, and care without defining her by any
single chapter. That perspective shows up not
just in what Marsha's is, but inhow it operates and who it's
for. Marsha's is named in honor of
(01:07):
Marsha P Johnson, a reminder that queer spaces have always
been about more than nightlife. They're about survival,
celebration, and being seen. And at a time when spaces
centered on queer women have been disappearing across the
country, Marshes feels both timely and deeply necessary.
In this conversation, we talked about what it takes to build
space when there isn't one, why women's sports became the
(01:29):
catalyst, and how personal history can quietly inform
leadership without becoming the whole story.
Welcome to Rohr Siobhan. Thank you for having me.
We're very excited. As I was saying earlier, I'm a
Philly girl at heart. So I'm, I'm really pumped that
this is here. And I spent many, many years on
South St. hanging out there myself.
So, yeah, I'm very excited for something new, too.
(01:52):
But let's talk about this, by the way, as like a country, I
don't know if everybody knows this, but nationwide, we've seen
a sharp decline in LGBTQ spaces,especially those centered on
queer women. Why do you think those spaces
have disappeared? And and I obviously I'm not
saying as like a static or a historian, but personally, what
do you think gets lost when theydo?
(02:13):
Well, a lot of things that people don't understand when it
comes to running and operating abusiness, your overhead is very
expensive. And you know, usually you have
like a triple net lease where you have to pay, you know, you
got to pay your rent, your taxes, all of the maintenance,
all of the insurance, plus your payroll, plus everything else.
And sometimes that gets to be super overwhelming.
(02:36):
Or if you're doing a really goodjob and you're successful and
the the property owner comes in and it's just like, oh, hey, by
the way, I'm going to raise yourrent $10,000 a month, which can
be devastating. Or they decide that they don't
want to rent to you anymore and they are like, oh, we're just
not going to renew your lease. So I don't think that it's a
lack of people wanting to go outand, and be in these spaces.
(03:01):
It's a lot of the times it's financially just like extremely
burdensome and you can't really afford to continue to operate
the space even though you know it's needed.
How are you combating that personally at Marsha's?
So I am a licensed real estate agent and I have been for the
past five years. And I knew from real estate
(03:25):
standards it's more beneficial to own than to rent.
So I was able to find a commercial property that had a
liquor license available and also had a business assets
available that I could purchase at AI.
I'd say affordable rate, but it,you know, it's, it was, it was
(03:49):
over, you know, all the price point where we, we settled
because it's all public knowledge was like about 1.37.
So in the grand scheme of things, that seems like a lot of
money. But when it comes down to what
our mortgage is per month versuswhat rent would be for a space
on South St., it would be doublejust because that's how these
(04:12):
things operate. So being able to purchase the
building, meaning that we are our own property owners, which
means we set our, we set our, our rent.
And we know that all of the improvements that we're doing to
the building are going to benefit us in the long term.
Which means we are investing in the real estate, which in two
(04:33):
years when we have the building reappraised, the third floor is
going to be completely redone. The second floor is going to be
open and functioning as another bar and venue space.
So that means the real estate, the value of that is going to
increase, which means that's more money available for us to
pull out once we refinance to purchase the next Marsha's
location. Oh my God, you're so thinking
(04:55):
ahead. That's awesome.
That's. Awesome.
Yeah. So, you know, kind of go down a
rabbit hole, but it's it's it's important.
And I didn't want anyone to haveany control over what we do
because I've been in those situations before.
And I was like, if we're going to really make this work, we
have to own literally everything.
And that's kind of where we are right now.
You know, it's, it's funny, I don't operate in real estate at
(05:17):
all, but in terms of like onlinespace and podcasting or
marketing anything, there's so much talk always and it comes on
repeat. But owning your own space, even
on the Internet versus putting all your, you know, hear people
who are like, I had 60 billion followers on blah, blah, blah,
and you lose it. It's just such a risk, and
you've taken kind of that risk out of it, which is awesome.
(05:41):
And being on South St. it's likethere's no greater
advertisement. You're right there.
Right. And let me say like there's risk
involved. There's not, there's, there's
always risk when you are doing any kind of business like it's
just is it calculated risk? Is it worth us doing this?
And the answer was yes, because I believe in, I believe in our
(06:01):
concept, I believe in the team. And I know that we are
fulfilling a need that has been lacking in Philly, in in
Philadelphia, but also in the surrounding areas as well.
I was just going to say, you know, Speaking of Philly
specific, what did it feel like to notice the gap in your own
city? I mean, it, it was always there.
(06:22):
It's not like you, you notice it, it's just there.
So it's, it just gets to the point where you want to do
something, but it's, it's difficult to make sure it's a
game, a chest. You want to make sure you're
making the right moves at the right time.
And when an opportunity, when the opportunity presented itself
(06:43):
for me to be able to purchase the old woolly mammoths on South
Street, I knew the universe was just like you've been working
towards this, here's this opportunity now what are you
going to do with it? And I like talking to my one of
my partners last night, she lives in Texas.
We were talking about it. And she's like, you know,
sometimes you just have to to leap and know that the net will
(07:06):
appear. And that's just kind of what we
did. I was like, we've been doing
this for a really long time. And why not?
Like, why not do it for us? Yes, yes, yes, congratulations.
Well, and, and you know, anotherthing besides the fact that it's
Philadelphia, I, I feel like youhear people and I, I don't know
these people, but I do. But I do hear people say things
like, do we really need queer spaces?
(07:28):
Like do we need a dedicated space?
Isn't it like it's 2025? We're we all get along.
How do you answer that, especially right now?
That is definitely not true. Like you have you have spaces
basically dedicated to kind of like everybody or every kind of
like social niche or or anythinglike that.
And it's it's about having safe space.
(07:51):
It's about having a space where you feel as though the owners
and the people working there reflect your ideals and, and who
you are as a person. And when you can go into a space
and be like, wow, these people really understand myself and the
struggles that I face everyday just existing, just trying to be
(08:14):
who I am and to have a space where you know, you can walk in
and you can be yourself and no one's going to bat an eyelash.
And, and that is extremely important and we're trying to
make marshes that space for everybody in the community.
And it doesn't. You don't necessarily have to be
queer, but you just. It's about being yourself, being
(08:36):
safe and feeling comfortable. Absolutely.
And and also, you know, there are still some gay bars in
Philadelphia, but this is all this is sports related.
So you mentioned something abouthow this like initiated for you
and and let me go back. You're a bar owner before yes,
So this isn't a completely like Brit.
You know you weren't florist andnow you're.
(08:58):
Absolutely not. So you were a bar owner before,
this wasn't like completely a change of pace, but the sports
part is also a new change of pace, right?
Because didn't you go into, can you, can you talk to us a little
bit about what inspired it? I had the opportunity to like be
with with one of my best friendsand knock something off her
(09:21):
bucket list which was going to see a Women's World Cup match
and we were able to do that. And 2019, we were able to go to
France and we were able to watchthe US take on France in the
quarter final match in Paris. And our seats were second row
centre goal like and they only cost $22.00.
(09:43):
Oh. My God, it's.
Like it was, it was crazy. That's insane.
Yeah. But it was such an amazing
experience being over there and watching this match, you know,
in person. And then we travelled.
We were still travelling in Europe when the semis were on,
so we were in Prague and we wereable to go to a like a pub.
(10:04):
And you know, being the Americans that we are, I was
like, oh, let's try to go reserve a table and we go in
and, you know, we reserve a table and then we come back
later and it's packed and like they got one TV on in there and
it's the women's, you know, World Cup semi finals.
So we're all pumped when the, you know, US wins, we're like,
we're going home. We're going to watch the you
know, we're going to watch the final.
(10:24):
It's going to be amazing. We can.
Like we've, you know, we were. There, we saw that quarter final
match and we go to a local sports bar and this place was
like in Philly, in Philly, OK, on South Street, I'm not gonna
say the name of the bar, but they got like 40 TV's in this
place. And it was a Sunday at like
noon. And we were like, all right, you
(10:48):
know, put the match on. And the bartender was like, no,
I'm like, what do you mean no, Like it's the FIFA Women's World
Cup. Like the US is in the finals.
Like, what do you mean? No, you don't want to put the TV
on. He's like, there's a Phillies
game on. I'm like, it's a regular season
Phillies game. You got 40 TV's.
How about you put one on? And I mean, there was maybe 15
of us all wearing our jerseys. It's like noon on a Sunday.
(11:08):
Like, come on, bro. Like, you want these people in
here? So that's a world.
Series like right, Right. You know, and eventually he kind
of gave in and put the TV, you know, switched it.
And then more people started coming in for final.
So eventually it was on like every single TV and the bar was
packed because people wanted to watch this match.
They want to support their country being, you know, support
(11:31):
your country, support these athletes who dedicate their
entire lives to get to that point, the finals in the World
Cup. And the least we can do is like
watch them on TV. Yeah, I mean well, and you know
what? That's the other thing.
It's like you're doing this, you've got this bar for a
variety of reasons, right? You're a bar owner, it's this
(11:52):
bar, etcetera, but and you're supporting the community.
But I love the fact that you're also supporting women's sports,
which just don't get the attention that men's sports get
anyway. Right.
It's because the, the powers that be, and this is what I'm
I'm trying to work towards. They didn't see any way to make
money in advertising. And all of a sudden that
(12:12):
narrative has shifted. So they're like, Oh, well, we
can you know, we were able to generate some, some money from
from these, you know, particularfrom from just this this
industry. So let's start promoting and I'm
like, OK, that's fine. We got to get our foot in the
(12:33):
door somehow, right? So now we're here.
Now what do we do? We have to show up.
We have to let them know that, yes, we are going to support
these women as they are at the the height of their career.
And we're going to tune in at home.
We're going to go out to different bars or restaurants to
watch them, to watch them do what they do best.
(12:57):
And we have to just continue to,to, to strike because that
momentum is going. And I don't think it's going to
slow down, but it's important for, for us to, to, to stand up
and show up and be like, look, we're here to support these
women. And this is the one way that I
can can show up and help them isby creating the space for people
(13:20):
to come and, and watch your gametogether.
Because it's nothing like watching A-Team you love with a
group of people that make you feel like you're, you know, a
part of the family. And whether they win, lose or
tie doesn't matter. You get to experience that with
people and that, you know, that stays with you.
And that's what we're trying to to make marshes be for people.
(13:44):
Quick pause because if you're listening to Roar, I have a
feeling you're exactly the kind of person I write for.
I send out a sub stack newsletter where I go a little
deeper, more personal stories, behind the scenes thoughts, and
honestly, some of the things we don't always say out loud here.
If you want to stay connected between episodes, you can find
it at Roar with danielledavies.substack.com.
(14:05):
I'd love to have you there. And now back to your regularly
scheduled podcast, you know, youwere talking about like it, you
know, get the momentum going andit's it felt like, and that this
is not where I was going, but I have to just mention it.
It felt like prior to 2024, there was some momentum going in
the right direction in the world.
You know, there were stores carrying LGBTQ friendly things
(14:29):
and like kind of just seeming like they were part of the
momentum and they're inauthenticity has been, you
know, obviously not great for them, but so disappointing for
everybody who kind of bought into that narrative or that that
thought that this was meaningful.
(14:50):
But it was really just about thebottom line.
And I'm really thrilled for you and the community that like, you
know, when something's being built from scratch, it kind of
has to be authentic. I mean, what you're doing sort
of has to be authentic. So anyway, sorry.
I just didn't. It's just so.
Yeah, anyway, let's talk about Marsha P Johnson for a second.
(15:11):
You Marsha's named after Marsha P Johnson and who stood for
Visibility, Resistance, and care.
How did her legacy influence your vision for this space, and
why her? I, when we were thinking of a
name, I came up with like a placeholder and one of my
housemates was like, he's like, you have to name the bar after
(15:35):
someone that like meant something to, to you or the
community or something. You know, he's like, it's got
to, you know, it's got to have a, have a life of its own.
And I just, I don't know, like she just popped in my head
immediately and I was just like,you know, got to be, you know,
Marsha P Johnson, She was, she was the face in a way of the the
(16:03):
revolution, the riot, the resistance in Stonewall.
And I came out when I was 15 in the 90s.
And there I knew I had to come out.
I just had to. And I, I was like, I thought it
was an endangered species, you know, like there wasn't a lot of
out people, especially teenagersin the 90s, you know, but I was
(16:28):
able to come out and live my life and not really fear
anything. And I was able to get to this
point where I can purchase real estate, I can purchase these
things, I can be visible and I can be my true authentic self.
And I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Marsha and Silver
(16:50):
Rivera and all the other people that were in the front lines,
you know, our, our, our kings, our Queens, you know, like
everybody in between, like theirsacrifices and everything that
they basically went through every single day of their lives
(17:11):
to, to, to exist needs to be recognized.
And this is just a very simple way for myself and my team and
our community to say, you know, thank you to all of those those
warriors that that stood up and said no more and gave me
(17:32):
personally the ability to live my life the way I have.
And when when thinking about herand thinking about the space
and, and you know, and obviouslylike there's there's heaviness
to that, right? But there's also a celebration
and joy and, and a party. It's a bar, it's fun.
How did you think about kind of safety, inclusion and
accessibility when you were designing the space?
(17:54):
Well, the space there is really not like there's nothing like
physically that we can do to thebuilding.
The building is kind of like what it is, but we went in
there. I, I know my strengths, I know
my weaknesses and my weaknesses are like designed in every sense
of the word. So I'm a.
Weaknesses are designed, yeah. So I, I was able to connect with
(18:18):
a local interior designer and a local local graphic artist and
we just talked about what we wanted the space to feel like.
And color scheme is very important, like making small
little, little changes to this space to make it feel like, you
(18:39):
know, you're going into because it's, it's, it's a real house.
And I wanted to feel like you'regoing into, you know, like, I
like to describe myself as your baby crazy aunt.
That's like, come on in, let's do some, let's have some fun
before you got to go back home to your parents.
It just has that like fun, exciting vibe.
And the energy is extremely important.
(18:59):
And when you walk into a space where the employees feel safe,
they feel seen, they want to be there, they want to work, they
want to have a good time. That kind of radiates out to the
to the customers that are to ourguests that are coming in.
And we always say like if someone doesn't feel safe
(19:24):
because of something that's going on, please come and tell
us immediately. We will address any issue as, as
they are brought to our attention because we don't want
people to feel like they're, if something's going on that
they're going unseen. So we, we do our best to make
sure that everybody is having a good time.
(19:47):
They feel like they can go in here and truly be themselves.
And if something feels off, cometell us.
And we will do our best to make sure that you feel comfortable
where you are because. Like this is Marcia's is an
extension of who I am as a person, and I always want people
to feel like they are safe when they're with me.
(20:08):
So that's what I want Marcia's to feel like for people.
Well, especially and you know, we were talking earlier about
before we went on air that you know, you've had some personal
experiences where you were not safe, you did not feel safe and
and more so people did not have your back when you went to them.
So how has that perspective showup in Marsha's and how has that
(20:34):
made you? You know, we also talked about
things coming full circle and itit all you know, all our past
informs us as who we are now. You wouldn't be who you wouldn't
be the wonderful spectacular exact you that you are right now
without all of these good and bad things happening in the new
life. Right, right.
So even though terrible things happen, that is our perspective,
(20:55):
hopefully in our lives that we can take with us.
At least that's what I hope for myself anyway.
So how does that how does that work for you?
Like, even when you say, you know, you want people to tell
you right away if they feel unsafe.
I mean, right off the bat I can hear it because I I know your
story, but does it show up in other ways?
(21:18):
It's, I don't know, it's, it's hard to, to describe what
happened. What happened to me was the fact
that a predator was allowed to survive in an environment where
it should have been destroyed. And people just were like, oh,
(21:39):
that's not my problem. That's not my problem.
That's not my problem. I'm focused on my career and
that's all that matters. But there are opportunities in
your life to do the right thing,even though you know it's not
going to end well and you have to live with yourself.
You're the only person that goesto sleep with what you did and
(22:03):
wakes up in the morning with howyou feel about it.
And we don't really have a lot of control in our lives.
We have the ability to make decisions and react to how other
people make decisions. And I've always just wanted to
operate in a way where things are open and safe.
(22:27):
And if, if there's anything going on in, in your life,
whether you know me or not, likeyou can come up to me and you
can talk to me and I will do my best to try to figure out a way
to help you through whatever is going on.
But I don't know, it's like fear.
Fear is something that you can'tlet rule your life because if
(22:49):
you're afraid to do anything, then you're never going to do
anything. And I was just like, if I could
go up against the military at 21years old, then I'm pretty sure
I can open a bar with people that I love when I'm 44.
Right, right. And you did, you did that like
(23:09):
that's impressive and that's andfirst of all, I just want to say
you should never have had to. So that's a disgrace on on their
part. But also look at I mean, talk
about strength, like good, good for you.
So and thank you, thank you and.You know, and I think about it
(23:29):
all the time and I was like 21 year old Siobhan.
I was just like, it just got to the point where you get yeah,
but you also get pushed and and you know that like, yeah, I'm a
baby, but I'm also an adult and I have a responsibility to do
what is right. I was raised by parents that
instilled in me right and wrong and how to stand up for people
(23:55):
that are being bullied or can't stand up for themselves.
And sometimes you got to sacrifice yourself for the for
the larger picture. And I and I do the same thing
over again, knowing exactly the consequences of my actions
because it's the right thing to do.
(24:16):
Well, there need to be clones ofyou then.
That's because you don't hear. I mean, I, I actually do talk to
a lot of women who I think are doing the right thing and it's
always inspiring. But you know, I, I feel like
even though 21 is young and it is or 21 as an adult, I have a
20 year old son and it's like, yeah, he's an adult, but he's
(24:38):
like a man child. So it's when you look back at
even your 21 year old self, you're like, oh, like, oh, come
here. Like you're so young.
You have so right. So that my niece.
Is about to turn 21, you know, and like she is the age of I was
when I was going through everything and it's it's insane
(24:59):
to to think about like being herage and doing what I did like
completely alone because I didn't tell my family until way
after the fact. So like nobody nobody knew what
was going on. It was one of those things where
you kind of keep it a secret because you're kind of ashamed.
And it took a lot of it took a few years of intense therapy for
(25:22):
me to really, really tell my momeverything that happened.
She knew something's happened, but I had to tell her, you know,
all the, I'm not going to go into it because we don't need
to, but like the terrible, terrible, traumatizing things
that happened to me. And once I, once I did that, I,
(25:44):
I let go of that trauma. That trauma did not control me.
I controlled it. And I, through a therapy, I was
able to put that experience in alittle box, put it on a shelf
and leave it over there because it's always going to be with me,
but it's not going to be in control of me.
OK, real quick, if you're listening and thinking more
(26:05):
women should be hearing conversations like this, the
best way to support the show is just to follow or subscribe
wherever you are. It really does help it reach
more people. Thanks so much.
OK, back to the show. Do you feel like that?
And you know, that kind of livedexperience and, and having that
kind of extraordinary bravery atthat very young age helps make
(26:28):
you a more thoughtful founder orleader.
I think so. I, I remember the first time I
was like asked to be captain of like a softball team.
And I asked my dad like what? Well, why did they, why did she
ask me? And he's like, well, she sees
leadership and she sees that youcan communicate with the team
(26:50):
and that they'll respect you andthey'll listen to you.
And I was like, what? And he's just like, don't don't
stress about it too much. But he also like instilled in me
something that, sorry, I got to plug my computer in that he was
like, you got to understand thatwhen you ask people to give you
(27:11):
100%, their 100% is different than yours.
Doesn't look the same. But if you know that they are
giving you everything they have,then thank them for it.
And that has really resonated with with me in my entire life
has how I look at at things. You got to be a good follower
(27:34):
sometimes to be a good leader. You got to know when to step up.
You got to know when to be quiet.
And you have to know that everybody is different.
Very, very and, and OK, so, so now you're open, You've got,
you're open and congratulations.What has surprised you the most
about how people have responded since you've opened?
(27:56):
I mean, the amount of thank you's that I get when I'm in the
bar from everybody. And I mean, it goes from, you
know, kids that are 21 to peoplethat are in their 80s that come
in and, and just thank, thank mefor for opening the space.
And I thank them for existing, for being out, for being
(28:17):
themselves, because it takes bravery to be your true
authentic self. And I want them to know that I
recognize that. And I am grateful and thankful
for them and that, you know, every dollar that they spend at
marshes goes back into marshes and will go eventually go back
into the community. So like, I want people to see us
(28:38):
so they know who is behind this idea of marshes.
And as we grow, they can grow with us and know that we're not
the person behind the curtain. You know, like we have faces,
we're real, we have emotions, and we're trying our best to
make sure that we do right by people.
(29:00):
I, I love it and I love that you're kind of, I mean, for me
personally, being a Philadelphialocal person, it's, it's so
meaningful that like the City ofbrotherly love can actually act
like that. Because so often, you know, we,
I actually, I work at a store sometimes we have a clip, it's
an eagle's hair clip and it saysno one likes us.
We don't care. It's so funny because for the
(29:22):
City of Brotherly Love, like that's the reputation, but I
think that's for people outside.Outside, absolutely.
We're family. Yeah, exactly.
Exactly. It's like, I can make fun of
you, that's fine, but if someoneelse from the outside comes and
makes fun of you, we got ourselves a problem.
Exactly, exactly. But I feel like, you know, the
idea of what you're doing at Marsha Marsha's is bigger than a
(29:44):
bar. It's bigger than the 1.
So what are your plans for the for the future?
Because you mentioned already the second one.
How many plan to? I mean, I'm trying to like we
are building a brand and I want to franchise.
I want to have multiple locations in Philly, tri-state
area and if we can franchise nationally, that's my goal.
(30:09):
And I am working with people to you know, we're already starting
to to lay the groundwork with that.
I under, I understand what it takes to build a successful
company, to be able to have a franchise, to be able to like we
don't have any investors. I've got partners.
So like we are like self funded,we've got an SBA loan.
So like there's again, there's no one else like really pulling
(30:32):
the strings and eventually we will take on investors, but
that's going to be in a way where fully our discretion, you
know, if it's a woman that's like, you know, I had, I love
your ideas. We're doing this, we're doing
that. It's like, all right, we're
going to sit down and we're going to talk about it and and
wait things out. But you have to start strong
(30:54):
from the beginning if you're going to build a if you're going
to build a brand, people need toknow you know what you're doing.
And that means hiring the right people to do the right jobs.
So I hired an interior designer,I hired a graphic designer, I
hired APR team. I have an amazing chef.
I've got partners that have beenin this industry for a very long
(31:15):
time. So we know how to do all of
these things and we make it seemeasy when it's incredibly
difficult. It is incredibly expensive, but
you have to, in my experience, you have to start in a way where
people are like they know what they're doing and we do.
(31:37):
And I have a foresight of where I want this business to go.
And it's going to take us a longtime to get there, but we're
already, you know, we're alreadymaking moves towards doing
bigger and better things. And I have the team in place
that allows that allows me to think about all the block
(32:00):
parties that we're going to throw coming up in, you know, in
April and May and June. You know, everything that's
happening in, in Philly, we are going to be at the, you know,
right in the middle of it. Like South Street is going to be
a huge factor in this year, 2026, and Marsha's is gonna be
(32:21):
right up front. And I want people to know that
we're, we're professionals and we know that what we're doing
and we just want people to have fun.
I thought and tell me like what you've done there so far in the
space because you say you've gotthe whole row house, right?
Yes. So the first floor is
operational, the we're working on getting the 2nd floor open.
(32:43):
We just do, you know, a few things and I knew that buying
the building that I was going tohave to invest money into the
building in order to get the 2ndfloor operating.
So we're a couple of months awayfrom that being open.
So the second floor is going to be, we're going to have another
bar up there. It's going to be a full open
space. So we'll have dance parties,
we'll have events. You can rent it out for, for
(33:05):
private events. And then the third floor, that's
all of our offices. Oh my gosh.
So it will. Will the marshes on South St. be
kind of like the original hub then?
And you'll have the offices there to operate.
Yes. Awesome, that's a lot of
foresight. How long have you been planning
this? I mean the idea of wanting to
(33:27):
create a business to grow pretty.
Well. It's, it's been something I, I
think I've been working towards my entire life.
I just, I'm in the right place at the right time with the right
people. And I, I have the experience of
working at different companies, watching them go from a smaller
(33:50):
operation to a larger national operation.
And I worked for them. I was for a movie theater called
the Alamo Draft House. And they are based in Austin and
now they're like a national, national company.
And my business partner Trish, she's my my main partner.
She was there, the national foodand beverage director, so we
(34:15):
understand how to operate on a larger scale.
And with the amount of talent that we have under one building
for such a small space, it seemskind of redundant.
But when you're looking at it asa larger picture, it makes sense
because I already have my my director of operations there.
I already have my beverage director there, I already have
(34:36):
my chef there that knows how to do multiple things and operate
multiple locations at the same time.
So we're building that foundation really strong.
And moving forward, we're just going to present ourselves as a
as a business that if you are aninvestor that wants to really,
you know, do something cool, you're going to want to come up
(34:59):
and talk to us. That I think that's great and
and I think it's great. It's in such a signal about,
again, the city of Philadelphia to the nation.
What do you for For queer women who've never had a space like
this in their city, what do you hope Marshes represents, even
from from a distance? That that there is faith.
(35:20):
Like we're still here. We're still trying to figure it
out. It's just it's hard.
And when I was younger, I didn'tunderstand why there weren't so
many, you know, queer spaces forwomen.
We got to go back to, you know, women couldn't own credit cards
until 1975. So how the hell are you supposed
to open a business if you can't have your own credit card?
You know, So it's just like a lot of these things have have
(35:43):
factored into having safe spacesfor, for queer women.
So with Marsha's, like being able to to own the bricks, own
everything is something that I'mtrying to have other people
think about. If you're trying to open a
space, like if there's a way foryou to own everything, then own
everything. Have a team that understands and
(36:07):
has experience in these industries, so you know what
you're getting into and, and howto be successful and know that
it's going to take a couple of years for you to to, to break
even. That's just, you know, turn a
profit. That's just kind of how it is.
But if you're aware of that going into it and you set
yourself up the right way, then you are setting yourself up for
(36:30):
success. It's not the lack of people that
are going to come to this space.It's the fact that overhead,
sometimes it's just too, it's just too much and, and sometimes
people get into an industry thatthey aren't truly familiar with
and sometimes just just unfortunately doesn't work.
Oh yeah, I mean restaurants and bars, I mean they're notorious,
(36:52):
right? They're just, it's not without
good intention that they're gonein.
Is your goal for franchising forownership of each location?
So I mean, the idea is that you when you franchise and you just
sell off parts of the franchise.So if someone who comes in,
they're like, oh, we want to be part of the Marsh's franchise.
(37:13):
So you do a whole, you know, thing and then you come up with
a franchise agreement and then you go out and then you help
them set everything up. Training.
There's protocol things that they have to do in order to stay
within the franchise agreement. But yeah, like still having
ownership over the franchise, but then also giving franchisees
the opportunity to be individuals, to do things that
(37:37):
are unique to them with it. Why?
I would think with the franchises that we're just
trying to create a blueprint in the structure.
Got you. For people to.
Would you want them though to own their building?
Like just out of curiosity, you're hoping.
OK, got it. Because that way it at least
there's always risk, like you said, but it alleviates that
particular risk, especially if people, you know, unfortunately
(38:03):
in 2025, Oh my God, it's 20262026.
You hear a lot of negative rhetoric.
And so that just kind of eases that for you, you know,
ownership, I mean, something andand yeah, I like that.
And and last question for you, if someone walks into Marsh's
(38:24):
for the first time and leaves feeling just one thing, what do
you hope that feeling is? These people get me.
That's awesome. That's awesome.
I want to come in. I'm coming in.
I'm coming up. Please, please do.
Oh yeah, So wait, just real quick, like for people who are
local, what are your hours? So we are open seven days a
(38:46):
week. Monday through Friday we open at
4:00 and we close at 10. Monday and Tuesday we close at
midnight. Thursday and Friday or no?
We close at midnight Wednesday and Thursday.
Friday we close at 2. Saturdays we open at noon, close
at 2:00. Saturday, Sundays we open at
noon, close at 10. All those hours are on our
(39:06):
website. OK, and I'll link to all this on
the show notes and then if you've got, you know, we'll
check and everybody who's watching check the show notes
for any details and we'll keep you updated on marshes.
You're going to have to get to South Street.
If you don't know what that is, you're in for a treat in
Philadelphia. It's.
It's iconic. It's iconic.
It's one of those things, you know, people think of Philly,
they think of Rocky, the Art Museum sets, cheese steaks and
(39:28):
South St. Got to go to South Street.
I know, I know you have to. So thank you so much for being
here, Siobhan. I really appreciate it.
Oh, you're very welcome and I amso grateful for for you having
us on the show us meet the royalwe.
Yeah, exactly, exactly. Thank you so much.
I loved how Siobhan talked aboutwhat it actually feels like to
(39:49):
walk into a space and just B, noexplaining, no adjusting, no
performing, and how powerful it is when women decide to create
those spaces for themselves and for each other.
And next week we're going somewhere we don't always go,
but probably should. We're having a very real, very
open conversation about women's bodies, sex, and all the things
(40:11):
we're not taught to talk about but absolutely should be, with
three sexual Wellness experts inour sex round table.
Until then, if this episode madeyou think of someone, send it to
them. That's how these conversations
keep going. We'll see you next week.
When I was younger, I didn't understand why there weren't so
many, you know, queer spaces forwomen.
We got to go back to, you know, women couldn't own credit cards
until 1975. So how the hell are you supposed
to open a business if you can't have your own credit card?
That's Siobhan Anderson, and this is Roar.
(00:24):
Hi everybody, this is Danielle Davies, your host of Roar.
Today's guest saw something missing and decided to build it.
Siobhan Anderson is the founder of Marsha's, Philadelphia's very
first queer women focused sportsbar, and it's located on South
St. What started as a very personal
frustration, wanting to watch women's sports in a place that
actually felt welcoming, became something much bigger, a place
(00:46):
designed intentionally for community, visibility, and joy.
Siobhan's path to opening Marsha's isn't linear.
She brings a wide range of livedexperiences to this work
experience. It informs how she thinks about
leadership, safety, and care without defining her by any
single chapter. That perspective shows up not
just in what Marsha's is, but inhow it operates and who it's
for. Marsha's is named in honor of
(01:07):
Marsha P Johnson, a reminder that queer spaces have always
been about more than nightlife. They're about survival,
celebration, and being seen. And at a time when spaces
centered on queer women have been disappearing across the
country, Marshes feels both timely and deeply necessary.
In this conversation, we talked about what it takes to build
space when there isn't one, why women's sports became the
(01:29):
catalyst, and how personal history can quietly inform
leadership without becoming the whole story.
Welcome to Rohr Siobhan. Thank you for having me.
We're very excited. As I was saying earlier, I'm a
Philly girl at heart. So I'm, I'm really pumped that
this is here. And I spent many, many years on
South St. hanging out there myself.
So, yeah, I'm very excited for something new, too.
(01:52):
But let's talk about this, by the way, as like a country, I
don't know if everybody knows this, but nationwide, we've seen
a sharp decline in LGBTQ spaces,especially those centered on
queer women. Why do you think those spaces
have disappeared? And and I obviously I'm not
saying as like a static or a historian, but personally, what
do you think gets lost when theydo?
(02:13):
Well, a lot of things that people don't understand when it
comes to running and operating abusiness, your overhead is very
expensive. And you know, usually you have
like a triple net lease where you have to pay, you know, you
got to pay your rent, your taxes, all of the maintenance,
all of the insurance, plus your payroll, plus everything else.
And sometimes that gets to be super overwhelming.
(02:36):
Or if you're doing a really goodjob and you're successful and
the the property owner comes in and it's just like, oh, hey, by
the way, I'm going to raise yourrent $10,000 a month, which can
be devastating. Or they decide that they don't
want to rent to you anymore and they are like, oh, we're just
not going to renew your lease. So I don't think that it's a
lack of people wanting to go outand, and be in these spaces.
(03:01):
It's a lot of the times it's financially just like extremely
burdensome and you can't really afford to continue to operate
the space even though you know it's needed.
How are you combating that personally at Marsha's?
So I am a licensed real estate agent and I have been for the
past five years. And I knew from real estate
(03:25):
standards it's more beneficial to own than to rent.
So I was able to find a commercial property that had a
liquor license available and also had a business assets
available that I could purchase at AI.
I'd say affordable rate, but it,you know, it's, it was, it was
(03:49):
over, you know, all the price point where we, we settled
because it's all public knowledge was like about 1.37.
So in the grand scheme of things, that seems like a lot of
money. But when it comes down to what
our mortgage is per month versuswhat rent would be for a space
on South St., it would be doublejust because that's how these
(04:12):
things operate. So being able to purchase the
building, meaning that we are our own property owners, which
means we set our, we set our, our rent.
And we know that all of the improvements that we're doing to
the building are going to benefit us in the long term.
Which means we are investing in the real estate, which in two
(04:33):
years when we have the building reappraised, the third floor is
going to be completely redone. The second floor is going to be
open and functioning as another bar and venue space.
So that means the real estate, the value of that is going to
increase, which means that's more money available for us to
pull out once we refinance to purchase the next Marsha's
location. Oh my God, you're so thinking
(04:55):
ahead. That's awesome.
That's. Awesome.
Yeah. So, you know, kind of go down a
rabbit hole, but it's it's it's important.
And I didn't want anyone to haveany control over what we do
because I've been in those situations before.
And I was like, if we're going to really make this work, we
have to own literally everything.
And that's kind of where we are right now.
You know, it's, it's funny, I don't operate in real estate at
(05:17):
all, but in terms of like onlinespace and podcasting or
marketing anything, there's so much talk always and it comes on
repeat. But owning your own space, even
on the Internet versus putting all your, you know, hear people
who are like, I had 60 billion followers on blah, blah, blah,
and you lose it. It's just such a risk, and
you've taken kind of that risk out of it, which is awesome.
(05:41):
And being on South St. it's likethere's no greater
advertisement. You're right there.
Right. And let me say like there's risk
involved. There's not, there's, there's
always risk when you are doing any kind of business like it's
just is it calculated risk? Is it worth us doing this?
And the answer was yes, because I believe in, I believe in our
(06:01):
concept, I believe in the team. And I know that we are
fulfilling a need that has been lacking in Philly, in in
Philadelphia, but also in the surrounding areas as well.
I was just going to say, you know, Speaking of Philly
specific, what did it feel like to notice the gap in your own
city? I mean, it, it was always there.
(06:22):
It's not like you, you notice it, it's just there.
So it's, it just gets to the point where you want to do
something, but it's, it's difficult to make sure it's a
game, a chest. You want to make sure you're
making the right moves at the right time.
And when an opportunity, when the opportunity presented itself
(06:43):
for me to be able to purchase the old woolly mammoths on South
Street, I knew the universe was just like you've been working
towards this, here's this opportunity now what are you
going to do with it? And I like talking to my one of
my partners last night, she lives in Texas.
We were talking about it. And she's like, you know,
sometimes you just have to to leap and know that the net will
(07:06):
appear. And that's just kind of what we
did. I was like, we've been doing
this for a really long time. And why not?
Like, why not do it for us? Yes, yes, yes, congratulations.
Well, and, and you know, anotherthing besides the fact that it's
Philadelphia, I, I feel like youhear people and I, I don't know
these people, but I do. But I do hear people say things
like, do we really need queer spaces?
(07:28):
Like do we need a dedicated space?
Isn't it like it's 2025? We're we all get along.
How do you answer that, especially right now?
That is definitely not true. Like you have you have spaces
basically dedicated to kind of like everybody or every kind of
like social niche or or anythinglike that.
And it's it's about having safe space.
(07:51):
It's about having a space where you feel as though the owners
and the people working there reflect your ideals and, and who
you are as a person. And when you can go into a space
and be like, wow, these people really understand myself and the
struggles that I face everyday just existing, just trying to be
(08:14):
who I am and to have a space where you know, you can walk in
and you can be yourself and no one's going to bat an eyelash.
And, and that is extremely important and we're trying to
make marshes that space for everybody in the community.
And it doesn't. You don't necessarily have to be
queer, but you just. It's about being yourself, being
(08:36):
safe and feeling comfortable. Absolutely.
And and also, you know, there are still some gay bars in
Philadelphia, but this is all this is sports related.
So you mentioned something abouthow this like initiated for you
and and let me go back. You're a bar owner before yes,
So this isn't a completely like Brit.
You know you weren't florist andnow you're.
(08:58):
Absolutely not. So you were a bar owner before,
this wasn't like completely a change of pace, but the sports
part is also a new change of pace, right?
Because didn't you go into, can you, can you talk to us a little
bit about what inspired it? I had the opportunity to like be
with with one of my best friendsand knock something off her
(09:21):
bucket list which was going to see a Women's World Cup match
and we were able to do that. And 2019, we were able to go to
France and we were able to watchthe US take on France in the
quarter final match in Paris. And our seats were second row
centre goal like and they only cost $22.00.
(09:43):
Oh. My God, it's.
Like it was, it was crazy. That's insane.
Yeah. But it was such an amazing
experience being over there and watching this match, you know,
in person. And then we travelled.
We were still travelling in Europe when the semis were on,
so we were in Prague and we wereable to go to a like a pub.
(10:04):
And you know, being the Americans that we are, I was
like, oh, let's try to go reserve a table and we go in
and, you know, we reserve a table and then we come back
later and it's packed and like they got one TV on in there and
it's the women's, you know, World Cup semi finals.
So we're all pumped when the, you know, US wins, we're like,
we're going home. We're going to watch the you
know, we're going to watch the final.
(10:24):
It's going to be amazing. We can.
Like we've, you know, we were. There, we saw that quarter final
match and we go to a local sports bar and this place was
like in Philly, in Philly, OK, on South Street, I'm not gonna
say the name of the bar, but they got like 40 TV's in this
place. And it was a Sunday at like
noon. And we were like, all right, you
(10:48):
know, put the match on. And the bartender was like, no,
I'm like, what do you mean no, Like it's the FIFA Women's World
Cup. Like the US is in the finals.
Like, what do you mean? No, you don't want to put the TV
on. He's like, there's a Phillies
game on. I'm like, it's a regular season
Phillies game. You got 40 TV's.
How about you put one on? And I mean, there was maybe 15
of us all wearing our jerseys. It's like noon on a Sunday.
(11:08):
Like, come on, bro. Like, you want these people in
here? So that's a world.
Series like right, Right. You know, and eventually he kind
of gave in and put the TV, you know, switched it.
And then more people started coming in for final.
So eventually it was on like every single TV and the bar was
packed because people wanted to watch this match.
They want to support their country being, you know, support
(11:31):
your country, support these athletes who dedicate their
entire lives to get to that point, the finals in the World
Cup. And the least we can do is like
watch them on TV. Yeah, I mean well, and you know
what? That's the other thing.
It's like you're doing this, you've got this bar for a
variety of reasons, right? You're a bar owner, it's this
(11:52):
bar, etcetera, but and you're supporting the community.
But I love the fact that you're also supporting women's sports,
which just don't get the attention that men's sports get
anyway. Right.
It's because the, the powers that be, and this is what I'm
I'm trying to work towards. They didn't see any way to make
money in advertising. And all of a sudden that
(12:12):
narrative has shifted. So they're like, Oh, well, we
can you know, we were able to generate some, some money from
from these, you know, particularfrom from just this this
industry. So let's start promoting and I'm
like, OK, that's fine. We got to get our foot in the
(12:33):
door somehow, right? So now we're here.
Now what do we do? We have to show up.
We have to let them know that, yes, we are going to support
these women as they are at the the height of their career.
And we're going to tune in at home.
We're going to go out to different bars or restaurants to
watch them, to watch them do what they do best.
(12:57):
And we have to just continue to,to, to strike because that
momentum is going. And I don't think it's going to
slow down, but it's important for, for us to, to, to stand up
and show up and be like, look, we're here to support these
women. And this is the one way that I
can can show up and help them isby creating the space for people
(13:20):
to come and, and watch your gametogether.
Because it's nothing like watching A-Team you love with a
group of people that make you feel like you're, you know, a
part of the family. And whether they win, lose or
tie doesn't matter. You get to experience that with
people and that, you know, that stays with you.
And that's what we're trying to to make marshes be for people.
(13:44):
Quick pause because if you're listening to Roar, I have a
feeling you're exactly the kind of person I write for.
I send out a sub stack newsletter where I go a little
deeper, more personal stories, behind the scenes thoughts, and
honestly, some of the things we don't always say out loud here.
If you want to stay connected between episodes, you can find
it at Roar with danielledavies.substack.com.
(14:05):
I'd love to have you there. And now back to your regularly
scheduled podcast, you know, youwere talking about like it, you
know, get the momentum going andit's it felt like, and that this
is not where I was going, but I have to just mention it.
It felt like prior to 2024, there was some momentum going in
the right direction in the world.
You know, there were stores carrying LGBTQ friendly things
(14:29):
and like kind of just seeming like they were part of the
momentum and they're inauthenticity has been, you
know, obviously not great for them, but so disappointing for
everybody who kind of bought into that narrative or that that
thought that this was meaningful.
(14:50):
But it was really just about thebottom line.
And I'm really thrilled for you and the community that like, you
know, when something's being built from scratch, it kind of
has to be authentic. I mean, what you're doing sort
of has to be authentic. So anyway, sorry.
I just didn't. It's just so.
Yeah, anyway, let's talk about Marsha P Johnson for a second.
(15:11):
You Marsha's named after Marsha P Johnson and who stood for
Visibility, Resistance, and care.
How did her legacy influence your vision for this space, and
why her? I, when we were thinking of a
name, I came up with like a placeholder and one of my
housemates was like, he's like, you have to name the bar after
(15:35):
someone that like meant something to, to you or the
community or something. You know, he's like, it's got
to, you know, it's got to have a, have a life of its own.
And I just, I don't know, like she just popped in my head
immediately and I was just like,you know, got to be, you know,
Marsha P Johnson, She was, she was the face in a way of the the
(16:03):
revolution, the riot, the resistance in Stonewall.
And I came out when I was 15 in the 90s.
And there I knew I had to come out.
I just had to. And I, I was like, I thought it
was an endangered species, you know, like there wasn't a lot of
out people, especially teenagersin the 90s, you know, but I was
(16:28):
able to come out and live my life and not really fear
anything. And I was able to get to this
point where I can purchase real estate, I can purchase these
things, I can be visible and I can be my true authentic self.
And I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Marsha and Silver
(16:50):
Rivera and all the other people that were in the front lines,
you know, our, our, our kings, our Queens, you know, like
everybody in between, like theirsacrifices and everything that
they basically went through every single day of their lives
(17:11):
to, to, to exist needs to be recognized.
And this is just a very simple way for myself and my team and
our community to say, you know, thank you to all of those those
warriors that that stood up and said no more and gave me
(17:32):
personally the ability to live my life the way I have.
And when when thinking about herand thinking about the space
and, and you know, and obviouslylike there's there's heaviness
to that, right? But there's also a celebration
and joy and, and a party. It's a bar, it's fun.
How did you think about kind of safety, inclusion and
accessibility when you were designing the space?
(17:54):
Well, the space there is really not like there's nothing like
physically that we can do to thebuilding.
The building is kind of like what it is, but we went in
there. I, I know my strengths, I know
my weaknesses and my weaknesses are like designed in every sense
of the word. So I'm a.
Weaknesses are designed, yeah. So I, I was able to connect with
(18:18):
a local interior designer and a local local graphic artist and
we just talked about what we wanted the space to feel like.
And color scheme is very important, like making small
little, little changes to this space to make it feel like, you
(18:39):
know, you're going into because it's, it's, it's a real house.
And I wanted to feel like you'regoing into, you know, like, I
like to describe myself as your baby crazy aunt.
That's like, come on in, let's do some, let's have some fun
before you got to go back home to your parents.
It just has that like fun, exciting vibe.
And the energy is extremely important.
(18:59):
And when you walk into a space where the employees feel safe,
they feel seen, they want to be there, they want to work, they
want to have a good time. That kind of radiates out to the
to the customers that are to ourguests that are coming in.
And we always say like if someone doesn't feel safe
(19:24):
because of something that's going on, please come and tell
us immediately. We will address any issue as, as
they are brought to our attention because we don't want
people to feel like they're, if something's going on that
they're going unseen. So we, we do our best to make
sure that everybody is having a good time.
(19:47):
They feel like they can go in here and truly be themselves.
And if something feels off, cometell us.
And we will do our best to make sure that you feel comfortable
where you are because. Like this is Marcia's is an
extension of who I am as a person, and I always want people
to feel like they are safe when they're with me.
(20:08):
So that's what I want Marcia's to feel like for people.
Well, especially and you know, we were talking earlier about
before we went on air that you know, you've had some personal
experiences where you were not safe, you did not feel safe and
and more so people did not have your back when you went to them.
So how has that perspective showup in Marsha's and how has that
(20:34):
made you? You know, we also talked about
things coming full circle and itit all you know, all our past
informs us as who we are now. You wouldn't be who you wouldn't
be the wonderful spectacular exact you that you are right now
without all of these good and bad things happening in the new
life. Right, right.
So even though terrible things happen, that is our perspective,
(20:55):
hopefully in our lives that we can take with us.
At least that's what I hope for myself anyway.
So how does that how does that work for you?
Like, even when you say, you know, you want people to tell
you right away if they feel unsafe.
I mean, right off the bat I can hear it because I I know your
story, but does it show up in other ways?
(21:18):
It's, I don't know, it's, it's hard to, to describe what
happened. What happened to me was the fact
that a predator was allowed to survive in an environment where
it should have been destroyed. And people just were like, oh,
(21:39):
that's not my problem. That's not my problem.
That's not my problem. I'm focused on my career and
that's all that matters. But there are opportunities in
your life to do the right thing,even though you know it's not
going to end well and you have to live with yourself.
You're the only person that goesto sleep with what you did and
(22:03):
wakes up in the morning with howyou feel about it.
And we don't really have a lot of control in our lives.
We have the ability to make decisions and react to how other
people make decisions. And I've always just wanted to
operate in a way where things are open and safe.
(22:27):
And if, if there's anything going on in, in your life,
whether you know me or not, likeyou can come up to me and you
can talk to me and I will do my best to try to figure out a way
to help you through whatever is going on.
But I don't know, it's like fear.
Fear is something that you can'tlet rule your life because if
(22:49):
you're afraid to do anything, then you're never going to do
anything. And I was just like, if I could
go up against the military at 21years old, then I'm pretty sure
I can open a bar with people that I love when I'm 44.
Right, right. And you did, you did that like
(23:09):
that's impressive and that's andfirst of all, I just want to say
you should never have had to. So that's a disgrace on on their
part. But also look at I mean, talk
about strength, like good, good for you.
So and thank you, thank you and.You know, and I think about it
(23:29):
all the time and I was like 21 year old Siobhan.
I was just like, it just got to the point where you get yeah,
but you also get pushed and and you know that like, yeah, I'm a
baby, but I'm also an adult and I have a responsibility to do
what is right. I was raised by parents that
instilled in me right and wrong and how to stand up for people
(23:55):
that are being bullied or can't stand up for themselves.
And sometimes you got to sacrifice yourself for the for
the larger picture. And I and I do the same thing
over again, knowing exactly the consequences of my actions
because it's the right thing to do.
(24:16):
Well, there need to be clones ofyou then.
That's because you don't hear. I mean, I, I actually do talk to
a lot of women who I think are doing the right thing and it's
always inspiring. But you know, I, I feel like
even though 21 is young and it is or 21 as an adult, I have a
20 year old son and it's like, yeah, he's an adult, but he's
(24:38):
like a man child. So it's when you look back at
even your 21 year old self, you're like, oh, like, oh, come
here. Like you're so young.
You have so right. So that my niece.
Is about to turn 21, you know, and like she is the age of I was
when I was going through everything and it's it's insane
(24:59):
to to think about like being herage and doing what I did like
completely alone because I didn't tell my family until way
after the fact. So like nobody nobody knew what
was going on. It was one of those things where
you kind of keep it a secret because you're kind of ashamed.
And it took a lot of it took a few years of intense therapy for
(25:22):
me to really, really tell my momeverything that happened.
She knew something's happened, but I had to tell her, you know,
all the, I'm not going to go into it because we don't need
to, but like the terrible, terrible, traumatizing things
that happened to me. And once I, once I did that, I,
(25:44):
I let go of that trauma. That trauma did not control me.
I controlled it. And I, through a therapy, I was
able to put that experience in alittle box, put it on a shelf
and leave it over there because it's always going to be with me,
but it's not going to be in control of me.
OK, real quick, if you're listening and thinking more
(26:05):
women should be hearing conversations like this, the
best way to support the show is just to follow or subscribe
wherever you are. It really does help it reach
more people. Thanks so much.
OK, back to the show. Do you feel like that?
And you know, that kind of livedexperience and, and having that
kind of extraordinary bravery atthat very young age helps make
(26:28):
you a more thoughtful founder orleader.
I think so. I, I remember the first time I
was like asked to be captain of like a softball team.
And I asked my dad like what? Well, why did they, why did she
ask me? And he's like, well, she sees
leadership and she sees that youcan communicate with the team
(26:50):
and that they'll respect you andthey'll listen to you.
And I was like, what? And he's just like, don't don't
stress about it too much. But he also like instilled in me
something that, sorry, I got to plug my computer in that he was
like, you got to understand thatwhen you ask people to give you
(27:11):
100%, their 100% is different than yours.
Doesn't look the same. But if you know that they are
giving you everything they have,then thank them for it.
And that has really resonated with with me in my entire life
has how I look at at things. You got to be a good follower
(27:34):
sometimes to be a good leader. You got to know when to step up.
You got to know when to be quiet.
And you have to know that everybody is different.
Very, very and, and OK, so, so now you're open, You've got,
you're open and congratulations.What has surprised you the most
about how people have responded since you've opened?
(27:56):
I mean, the amount of thank you's that I get when I'm in the
bar from everybody. And I mean, it goes from, you
know, kids that are 21 to peoplethat are in their 80s that come
in and, and just thank, thank mefor for opening the space.
And I thank them for existing, for being out, for being
(28:17):
themselves, because it takes bravery to be your true
authentic self. And I want them to know that I
recognize that. And I am grateful and thankful
for them and that, you know, every dollar that they spend at
marshes goes back into marshes and will go eventually go back
into the community. So like, I want people to see us
(28:38):
so they know who is behind this idea of marshes.
And as we grow, they can grow with us and know that we're not
the person behind the curtain. You know, like we have faces,
we're real, we have emotions, and we're trying our best to
make sure that we do right by people.
(29:00):
I, I love it and I love that you're kind of, I mean, for me
personally, being a Philadelphialocal person, it's, it's so
meaningful that like the City ofbrotherly love can actually act
like that. Because so often, you know, we,
I actually, I work at a store sometimes we have a clip, it's
an eagle's hair clip and it saysno one likes us.
We don't care. It's so funny because for the
(29:22):
City of Brotherly Love, like that's the reputation, but I
think that's for people outside.Outside, absolutely.
We're family. Yeah, exactly.
Exactly. It's like, I can make fun of
you, that's fine, but if someoneelse from the outside comes and
makes fun of you, we got ourselves a problem.
Exactly, exactly. But I feel like, you know, the
idea of what you're doing at Marsha Marsha's is bigger than a
(29:44):
bar. It's bigger than the 1.
So what are your plans for the for the future?
Because you mentioned already the second one.
How many plan to? I mean, I'm trying to like we
are building a brand and I want to franchise.
I want to have multiple locations in Philly, tri-state
area and if we can franchise nationally, that's my goal.
(30:09):
And I am working with people to you know, we're already starting
to to lay the groundwork with that.
I under, I understand what it takes to build a successful
company, to be able to have a franchise, to be able to like we
don't have any investors. I've got partners.
So like we are like self funded,we've got an SBA loan.
So like there's again, there's no one else like really pulling
(30:32):
the strings and eventually we will take on investors, but
that's going to be in a way where fully our discretion, you
know, if it's a woman that's like, you know, I had, I love
your ideas. We're doing this, we're doing
that. It's like, all right, we're
going to sit down and we're going to talk about it and and
wait things out. But you have to start strong
(30:54):
from the beginning if you're going to build a if you're going
to build a brand, people need toknow you know what you're doing.
And that means hiring the right people to do the right jobs.
So I hired an interior designer,I hired a graphic designer, I
hired APR team. I have an amazing chef.
I've got partners that have beenin this industry for a very long
(31:15):
time. So we know how to do all of
these things and we make it seemeasy when it's incredibly
difficult. It is incredibly expensive, but
you have to, in my experience, you have to start in a way where
people are like they know what they're doing and we do.
(31:37):
And I have a foresight of where I want this business to go.
And it's going to take us a longtime to get there, but we're
already, you know, we're alreadymaking moves towards doing
bigger and better things. And I have the team in place
that allows that allows me to think about all the block
(32:00):
parties that we're going to throw coming up in, you know, in
April and May and June. You know, everything that's
happening in, in Philly, we are going to be at the, you know,
right in the middle of it. Like South Street is going to be
a huge factor in this year, 2026, and Marsha's is gonna be
(32:21):
right up front. And I want people to know that
we're, we're professionals and we know that what we're doing
and we just want people to have fun.
I thought and tell me like what you've done there so far in the
space because you say you've gotthe whole row house, right?
Yes. So the first floor is
operational, the we're working on getting the 2nd floor open.
(32:43):
We just do, you know, a few things and I knew that buying
the building that I was going tohave to invest money into the
building in order to get the 2ndfloor operating.
So we're a couple of months awayfrom that being open.
So the second floor is going to be, we're going to have another
bar up there. It's going to be a full open
space. So we'll have dance parties,
we'll have events. You can rent it out for, for
(33:05):
private events. And then the third floor, that's
all of our offices. Oh my gosh.
So it will. Will the marshes on South St. be
kind of like the original hub then?
And you'll have the offices there to operate.
Yes. Awesome, that's a lot of
foresight. How long have you been planning
this? I mean the idea of wanting to
(33:27):
create a business to grow pretty.
Well. It's, it's been something I, I
think I've been working towards my entire life.
I just, I'm in the right place at the right time with the right
people. And I, I have the experience of
working at different companies, watching them go from a smaller
(33:50):
operation to a larger national operation.
And I worked for them. I was for a movie theater called
the Alamo Draft House. And they are based in Austin and
now they're like a national, national company.
And my business partner Trish, she's my my main partner.
She was there, the national foodand beverage director, so we
(34:15):
understand how to operate on a larger scale.
And with the amount of talent that we have under one building
for such a small space, it seemskind of redundant.
But when you're looking at it asa larger picture, it makes sense
because I already have my my director of operations there.
I already have my beverage director there, I already have
(34:36):
my chef there that knows how to do multiple things and operate
multiple locations at the same time.
So we're building that foundation really strong.
And moving forward, we're just going to present ourselves as a
as a business that if you are aninvestor that wants to really,
you know, do something cool, you're going to want to come up
(34:59):
and talk to us. That I think that's great and
and I think it's great. It's in such a signal about,
again, the city of Philadelphia to the nation.
What do you for For queer women who've never had a space like
this in their city, what do you hope Marshes represents, even
from from a distance? That that there is faith.
(35:20):
Like we're still here. We're still trying to figure it
out. It's just it's hard.
And when I was younger, I didn'tunderstand why there weren't so
many, you know, queer spaces forwomen.
We got to go back to, you know, women couldn't own credit cards
until 1975. So how the hell are you supposed
to open a business if you can't have your own credit card?
You know, So it's just like a lot of these things have have
(35:43):
factored into having safe spacesfor, for queer women.
So with Marsha's, like being able to to own the bricks, own
everything is something that I'mtrying to have other people
think about. If you're trying to open a
space, like if there's a way foryou to own everything, then own
everything. Have a team that understands and
(36:07):
has experience in these industries, so you know what
you're getting into and, and howto be successful and know that
it's going to take a couple of years for you to to, to break
even. That's just, you know, turn a
profit. That's just kind of how it is.
But if you're aware of that going into it and you set
yourself up the right way, then you are setting yourself up for
(36:30):
success. It's not the lack of people that
are going to come to this space.It's the fact that overhead,
sometimes it's just too, it's just too much and, and sometimes
people get into an industry thatthey aren't truly familiar with
and sometimes just just unfortunately doesn't work.
Oh yeah, I mean restaurants and bars, I mean they're notorious,
(36:52):
right? They're just, it's not without
good intention that they're gonein.
Is your goal for franchising forownership of each location?
So I mean, the idea is that you when you franchise and you just
sell off parts of the franchise.So if someone who comes in,
they're like, oh, we want to be part of the Marsh's franchise.
(37:13):
So you do a whole, you know, thing and then you come up with
a franchise agreement and then you go out and then you help
them set everything up. Training.
There's protocol things that they have to do in order to stay
within the franchise agreement. But yeah, like still having
ownership over the franchise, but then also giving franchisees
the opportunity to be individuals, to do things that
(37:37):
are unique to them with it. Why?
I would think with the franchises that we're just
trying to create a blueprint in the structure.
Got you. For people to.
Would you want them though to own their building?
Like just out of curiosity, you're hoping.
OK, got it. Because that way it at least
there's always risk, like you said, but it alleviates that
particular risk, especially if people, you know, unfortunately
(38:03):
in 2025, Oh my God, it's 20262026.
You hear a lot of negative rhetoric.
And so that just kind of eases that for you, you know,
ownership, I mean, something andand yeah, I like that.
And and last question for you, if someone walks into Marsh's
(38:24):
for the first time and leaves feeling just one thing, what do
you hope that feeling is? These people get me.
That's awesome. That's awesome.
I want to come in. I'm coming in.
I'm coming up. Please, please do.
Oh yeah, So wait, just real quick, like for people who are
local, what are your hours? So we are open seven days a
(38:46):
week. Monday through Friday we open at
4:00 and we close at 10. Monday and Tuesday we close at
midnight. Thursday and Friday or no?
We close at midnight Wednesday and Thursday.
Friday we close at 2. Saturdays we open at noon, close
at 2:00. Saturday, Sundays we open at
noon, close at 10. All those hours are on our
(39:06):
website. OK, and I'll link to all this on
the show notes and then if you've got, you know, we'll
check and everybody who's watching check the show notes
for any details and we'll keep you updated on marshes.
You're going to have to get to South Street.
If you don't know what that is, you're in for a treat in
Philadelphia. It's.
It's iconic. It's iconic.
It's one of those things, you know, people think of Philly,
they think of Rocky, the Art Museum sets, cheese steaks and
(39:28):
South St. Got to go to South Street.
I know, I know you have to. So thank you so much for being
here, Siobhan. I really appreciate it.
Oh, you're very welcome and I amso grateful for for you having
us on the show us meet the royalwe.
Yeah, exactly, exactly. Thank you so much.
I loved how Siobhan talked aboutwhat it actually feels like to
(39:49):
walk into a space and just B, noexplaining, no adjusting, no
performing, and how powerful it is when women decide to create
those spaces for themselves and for each other.
And next week we're going somewhere we don't always go,
but probably should. We're having a very real, very
open conversation about women's bodies, sex, and all the things
(40:11):
we're not taught to talk about but absolutely should be, with
three sexual Wellness experts inour sex round table.
Until then, if this episode madeyou think of someone, send it to
them. That's how these conversations
keep going. We'll see you next week.
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