April 28, 2026 • 64 mins
Did you ever think of the work you naturally do as a women, mom, and/or teacher, work that holds up the whole system, isn't actually harmless? In fact, Rebekah Pierce uses a different word for it: Destructive.
In this episode of Roar, Danielle Davies sits down with educator, author, and womanist, Rebekah Pierce to talk about something that feels specific to classrooms, but isn't. Because while this conversation starts with teaching, it quickly becomes about something much bigger: who is expected to carry people, absorb pressure, and create stability inside systems that were never designed to support them in the first place.
Rebekah's work challenges one of the most deeply ingrained assumptions in education—that learning begins with productivity. Instead, she asks a different question: what happens when we center humanity first? And even more importantly: Who is already doing that work, without recognition?
Together, Danielle & Rebekah talk about:
🔥Why classrooms often rely on emotional labor more than curriculum
🔥The invisible work teachers do to create safety, stability, and trust
🔥 How "care" becomes an expectation, not a choice
🔥The womanist lens: who is doing the sustaining work, and why
🔥What it means to operate inside systems that were never built for wholeness
🔥 How women internalize the role of "holding everything together"
🔥The cost of constantly choosing humanity inside productivity-driven environments
🔥Why systems don't change
This conversation starts in a classroom, but it doesn't stay there. Because once you see it, you can't unsee the ways women hold space, absorb impact, and make things work that were never designed to.
Key Takeaways:
- Systems often function because of people, not because they work well.
- Emotional labor is not extra. It's what makes environments survivable.
- Women are disproportionately expected to carry that labor.
- Care has been reframed as obligation instead of choice.
- Real change would require systems to stop relying on over-functioning individuals.
Links related to this discussion:
Rebekah's Substacks:
https://captainjacknovellaseries.substack.com/
https://rebekahlynnpierce.substack.com/
Sojourner TruthRelated Convos:
Why Women Are Taught to Be Palatable with Sophie Jane Lee: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2NK45ObtHFc3G9PTgFoiro?si=FcPMySeIRHSvJNX9MYyc4Q
The Lie of "Doing it All" with Gifty Enright: https://spotifycreators-web.app.link/e/SPCahSAXG2b
💥 Don’t Miss a Conversation
🎧Follow & Subscribe on:
Apple (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-roar-podcast/id1791584834),
Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/5A3yVooECAKII1a3HV3bcf) YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@roarpod
📩 Sign up for Danielle’s newsletter
🙋♀️ Want to be on Roar?
🤝 Want to partner with us? danielle@danielledavies.com
🔗 Connect
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The problem is, and the problem has always been that women are
not nurtured outside of that. And inside of it, we're not
given the tools, we're told to just figure it out.
This is why we're very creative and intuitive, right?
And we've had to figure out how to make this work for our
charges and but mostly at the detriment of our own well-being.
(00:26):
That's Rebecca Pierce, and this is Roar.
Hi everybody. This is Danielle Davies, the
host of ROAR. Today's guest is Rebecca Pierce,
educator, author, veteran, and awomanist whose work sits at the
intersection of teaching, healing, faith, and care, and my
(00:47):
other things. Rebecca is the author of Before
the Lesson Begins, a book that challenges one of our most
deeply ingrained assumptions that learning should begin with
productivity rather than humanity.
Drawing from decades in the classroom, she argues that
before content, before assessment, before performance,
there must be breath, reflection, and affirmation.
(01:07):
What makes this conversation especially aligned with ROAR is
Rebecca's womanist lens. Womanism asks us to pay
attention to who's doing the work of sustaining communities
emotionally, relationally, and spiritually, especially in
places in spaces shaped by inequality in education, that
sustaining labor has long fallento women, and disproportionately
(01:28):
to women of color. This episode is about what it
means to teach, lead, and advocate inside systems that
were never designed for wholeness, and how women so
often become the ones holding space, absorbing harm, and
quietly creating conditions for others to survive and grow.
Rebecca, welcome to ROAR. Thank you, that was a lovely
intro. Oh thank you so much.
(01:49):
I'm starting to think it's my it's my specialty.
I was like if it nobody listens to anything else, just listen to
the intro. I love it.
It was good. I'm.
Good. I'm so glad and thank you so
much for being here. Oh, you're welcome.
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
I. Appreciate it.
Well, I'm just going to dive right in because I know that,
you know, feminism's like, you know, a big catch all term and
(02:10):
and I am a feminist. I consider myself a feminist,
but you identify explicitly as awomanist, not just as an
educator or an advocate or even a feminist.
What does womanism give you intellectually or spiritually,
that mainstream feminism doesn't?
Well, feminism doesn't consider spirituality or individuality in
(02:31):
terms of your connection to whatever you choose to call the
energy that guides your life. God, the divine, Yahweh,
whatever. I refer to it as God, of course,
or the universe. And so feminism is really and
believe me, I was a feminist too.
I'm still partially feminist, right?
But feminism does not allow for introspection on an individual
(02:51):
level. And then to be able to bring
that introspection, that self-awareness into the
classroom and then attach it to curriculum.
It it doesn't do that. Feminism only looks at gender
equality, inequality, excuse me,and, and systems, but what
womanism does is it allows you to go even further than that.
How are these, how are people impacted by systems on both a
(03:16):
spiritual level and emotional level, a physical level, a
financial level? How are we impacted by that?
And when you look at the classroom, that is the greatest
micro microcosm for where you can see the impact of systems
on, on individual learning, access to learning, but also as
(03:36):
a group, the impact of a system that was designed to keep others
out. You can see that impact in the
classroom. And again, I teach at the
collegiate level, but I started out in a public school teaching
the high school English. And this is where I started
seeing that there was a huge gapin being able to connect the
(03:58):
individual to what it is that they're learning and why they're
learning it. The why was missing just the,
oh, we got to learn this today, but why?
How is that connected to my own lived experiences?
Especially when you're not saying like the why is to pass a
test like? Exactly.
And you know, passing a test is not always indicative of having
(04:20):
learned anything. And you know, I say that to my
students, if you get an A in my class, whether you get an A or
AC, you know that you worked your butt off and you did the
work. Because my class is not about a
grade, it's about who you are asan individual that is connected
to a community. So how can I bring you to the
(04:43):
awareness of your individuality so that then you can be ready to
receive what I'm about to teach you, the skills I'm about to
give you. How can you do that?
So womanism for me is all-encompassing.
It looks at race, it looks at gender inequality, it looks at
socioeconomic status. It looks at all of that and then
says, but who am I as a human being?
(05:04):
And, and, and what is my, what is my role in this world?
What is my why? And how can I tell my story in a
way that it it it belongs to me,but it also gives others
permission to find their story and tell it as well?
I love this. Thank you for the explanation
because I was looking into it and it seems like it's like a
(05:24):
more robust, I mean not not to just compare it, but a more
robust. It is.
It goes further, you know, because because I'm also a
humanist. I mean, that's how I started
teaching as a humanist. And you know, humanism looks at
the humanity. That's what that's what you do.
Look at the totality of the picture.
Like how did we get here? So when you merge humanism with
(05:47):
the microcosm, a little small piece of humanism, which is
feminism, but then wrap it around womanism, that gives you
a bigger picture of all of thesethings.
And the and the little dot in the middle is the human being,
the self. How is the self impacted by the
outer circle? All these things that are out
there, How does it allow you to grow?
(06:09):
How does it stymie growth? You know, how, how does it do
that? And that's, that's a big thing
that's missing for young people.You know, I, I hear a lot of
talk about, oh, young people don't know this and they don't
feel that that's because nobody's teaching them context
within the frame of all of this hoorah.
Who am I in the middle of all this?
Who do I want to be, who I need to be?
(06:30):
And how do I get there? That's what's missing and that's
what I feel. You know, womanism kind of
allows. I mean, there's, there's
different branches. You could say, I hate to say
branches, but I consider myself a womanist ethicist.
And then I'm looking at the ethics, the ethics of the human
being. And then around that is
leadership. How do you become and how are
(06:51):
you an ethical leader? You know, and then of course,
you have womanist theology and, and, you know, bringing in the
spiritual context and all that. So, yeah, it does.
It does have arms, but the overall reaching the overall
umbrella is that womanism allowsus to first look at self and
then out. I love that.
(07:15):
Thank you. I appreciate it.
And, and Speaking of, you know, self and even coming from the
perspective now of the educatorswho might read your book or the
even just I think lay people would get a benefit from it.
But you know, teaching is a profession dominated by women.
It also requires constant emotional regulation.
Having having been a 6th grade teacher, I can tell you that is
(07:36):
what I lacked. That is why I'm no longer a
teacher. How do you teach there?
How do how do you see women educators being asked to carry
far more than they're resourced or recognized for?
It's destructive. It is destructive and the reason
why teaching it is a heavily female dominated industry is
because it's the only place theyallowed women to go in the 1st
(07:58):
place because women were supposed to be responsible for
the nurturing of children. It's part of the women's fear
philosophy of what the role of awoman was.
It wasn't to be in public speaking or to be in these
so-called male dominated world of you know, journalism,
politics, blah blah blah. Our responsibility was to, let
me rephrase that, the role of white women, the responsibility
was to nurture the home and the children that are in the home.
(08:21):
By extension, black women, particularly after slavery, our
role was to almost do the same thing.
That patriarchal, white patriarchal assumption about
what a woman's role was now thatblack women were considered to
be quote UN quote women, although partially in treatment,
you know, that became our role too.
And that and a lot of people say, well, that's because women
are more nurturing. We do have multi emotions.
(08:44):
We are able, we are able to see around the corner and and
predict and make decisions basedon what we think is around that
corner, based on our lived experiences.
So teaching by extension, becomes a quote UN quote, the
role of the woman because it's about nurturing.
The problem is, and the problem has always been that women are
(09:05):
not nurtured outside of that. And inside of it, we're not
given the tools, we're told to just figure it out.
This is why we're very creative and intuitive, right?
And we've had to figure out how to make this work for our
charges and but mostly at the detriment of our own well-being.
(09:27):
Yeah. At the detriment of our own
well-being, and that has been the biggest cross that we as
women have carried, particularlyin the field of education.
And I say that that has to change because I cannot
authentically and intentionally and in Wellness give what I do
(09:52):
not have in my well to give. And so This is why teachers, you
know, are dropping out. They're leaving their
profession, why we're burned outwhile we're tired, while we're
angry, while we're frustrated. And then this leads into why
we're overstressed, why cardiovascular disease is the
number one killer of black womenin particular.
You know why we're overeating, why we're obese, why we smoke,
(10:12):
why we drink. You know these these effects of
the of the cause, which is y'alljust getting here figured out
you're women, you'll figure it out.
That is so harmful and that's with. 26 sets of eyes on you
like why you know? Yes, 26 and it, and then and
(10:34):
then with 26, not only 26 eyes, but 26 different stories.
Yes, 26 different personalities,26 different traumas, 26
different lived experiences. How do you get a class to buy
into growth and expansion and Wellness when the teacher isn't
(10:57):
even well, Yeah, that's the question.
How do you do? You can't.
That's why the system is so broken.
That's why these kids are, if they make it to me at the
collegiate level, why they don'thave reading skills intact where
they should be. I have grown people reading at
3rd, 4th grade level with assistants, writing at 3rd, 4th
(11:18):
grade level with assistants. These young people don't know
how to analyze rhetorical analysis.
All they know is opinion. And that is an absolute no, no
in the classroom. We're not here for your opinion.
We're here for your position. What is your argument?
What is the evidence to support it?
How do you defend that? And when you have young people
who are coming in the system that only that because they're
(11:40):
tired, our teachers are tired ofworn out and they're not
supported. And and because they're coming
from a system where the teachersare just like here, just go
ahead and do this. Just just go ahead.
Then they had they're not learning those skills in a way
that is life sustaining. That is skill building.
So when they come to our classes, a lot of teachers are
(12:03):
not going to rebuild that skill.They're just going to press
forward. And that means we have young
people failing me. I just can't do that.
You're going to we're going to I'm going to give you, I'm going
to teach you and you're going toleave this classroom better than
when you walk in it. But that also requires energy.
It requires a love, a passion for what you do.
(12:25):
But it also requires Wellness. I have to be well because.
Yes, and I feel like I wasn't even prepared to ask you this
and this is opening up a whole giant.
This is potentially like 6 hour long conversation, but but I
won't do that. I'll just, I'll just briefly
touch on it because you've got obviously suggestions that are
(12:47):
practical and personal and can be used in the classroom, but
systemically in the nation, in the world.
Do you have any thoughts? Because you're right, it's all
just one cycle. I mean, I know as a young
teacher, I was totally overwhelmed, totally afraid,
literally without resources until physical resources, books,
(13:11):
textbooks, until November of my starting year.
The lack of support and it's, itis no one single persons fault.
This is a systemic issue. It goes on and on and on.
You can't blame one principal, one school.
It's all intertwined so much andit and it, of course it leads to
(13:33):
crises when people are older. It leads to a failing economy.
It leads to everything stems from education.
And so I'm just curious what your thoughts are on education
as a whole. I realize this is not.
Oh wow. Yeah.
Just just curious. It's it's killing our young
people. It is killing creativity.
(13:56):
It is stifling joy. It is terrorizing children.
I'm sorry. It is.
It is 'cause when I, when I see these young people come to my
classroom first week of school, these young people are legit
broken. I mean, I, when I returned back
into the classroom in 2022, excuse me, 2024, I literally
(14:22):
witnessed young people falling apart at the slightest question.
And I'm like, why are these babies falling apart?
Because I'm asking them, what did they, why did you write
that? Or how, what other way can we
reframe them? And what I just, what I have
(14:42):
come to believe is that is because they have no, no
foundation of self. You know, COVID did a number, I
think COVID really revealed the true depths and despair of the
educational system in this country because we had students
coming in that are just not there.
And for me to answer the question is it's a hard, it's a
(15:05):
load of question. It literally is one person at a
time. I can't change the.
I mean, when I first started teaching, I went in there like a
lot of young teachers. Oh, I'm going to save the world.
I'm going to save all the children.
No ma'am, but I ended up doing my last year.
I just it's relating. Go ahead.
(15:26):
Right. And and that's the thing I think
that's missing. We're not teaching teachers how
to teach. We're not teaching teachers how
to do that. We're not teaching them how to
be cognizant of their own strengths and weaknesses and
the, and the, and the fantasy and the illusion of what a
teacher is. And so and so I had to come to
(15:47):
the terms with, if I can get oneyoung person to get that light
bulb to go off for one young person in this entire school
year, then I have done my job because all it takes is 1.
If you can reach the one, then the one can go out and reach the
many. And so it's always been my drive
of I'm focusing on the students who want to learn, who want to
(16:08):
be here. I can't save everybody, the rest
of you, we don't want to be here.
There's nothing I can do about that.
But if I can get that one student to buy into what I'm
offering, if I can continue to buy into what I'm offering, what
I'm giving and what I'm receiving, then that that's the
only thing that I can, that I can do.
I can't, I, you know, this, thissystem, the educational system
(16:31):
in this country is just, it was never founded.
It was not founded on equal footing in the first place.
I can get into a whole history of the educational system this
United States of America as an English teacher.
That's a whole 6 hour conversation right there.
Exactly. Exactly.
(16:52):
It was never founded on equality, just or at equal
access to resources. And so we're already behind the
8 ball. So what I feel in writing my
book is that if I can just get the teacher, if I can get that
one teacher, that one human being to buy into, I know I'm
(17:13):
supposed to be here. This is my calling.
But I'm tired, I'm worn out, I'moverwhelmed.
How do I reconnect to get back into this?
And for me, the answer is you'vegot to begin with self.
You've got to start taking care of yourself mentally,
spiritually, physically, becauseyou cannot walk into that
classroom broken. Quick pause, because if you're
(17:36):
listening to Roar, I have a feeling you're exactly the kind
of person I write for. I send out a Substack newsletter
where I go a little deeper, morepersonal stories, behind the
scenes thoughts, and honestly, some of the things we don't
always say out loud here. If you want to stay connected
between episodes, you can find it at Roar with
danielledavies.substack.com. I'd love to have you there.
(17:56):
And now back to your regularly scheduled podcast.
This leads me back to your book.So you write about this, right?
Leading with breath affirmations, reflection for,
you know, before academic content, not just for the
students, but for the teacher, right?
It helps everybody. But these practices are often
treated as secondary, right? Even unnecessary within the
(18:17):
traditional educational system. I-1 time was like, we're going
to do yoga poses. My class, I was a very short
lived teacher. Why do you think forms of care
are so often associated with women?
Why do you think these these thoughts, these forms of care
are so often undervalued both ineducation and beyond?
(18:37):
I mean, there's no doubt about the benefits.
People done so many studies on the benefits of meditation after
me self-care, it's taking care of oneself.
But we we Pooh Pooh it like it'snot that important.
Well, I mean, for me, I can onlyspeak for me.
I've made it a requirement. I made it part of my curriculum,
(18:59):
my syllabus. This is what this is my
classroom. This, this is, I'll be honest,
my students know day one, I'm the alpha and this is my space.
And in this space, this is what we do.
This is what we do and it's on your syllabus.
We will begin every class with breath and affirmation and free
(19:22):
writing. This has to be a habit.
You create a discipline structured moment for young
people because that's one of thethings they're missing.
They're missing structure consistency.
They're missing that. And the teacher has to be
adamant that this is how my classroom will go.
(19:44):
And we will do this regardless of what is happening externally
or internally because we need this in order for the lesson to
begin. We need this.
My students need this moment. These kids are coming in rushed,
pressed, stressed, overwhelmed. That doesn't make for an
(20:05):
effective learning environment that that that does not.
So how do I get you to stop for a moment?
How do I get you to just sit fora moment and close your eyes,
relax your shoulders, put your phone down, close your tablet,
close your eyes, let your tonguerest at the bottom of your
(20:25):
mouth? And let's just breathe big
breath in, exhale the next time you inhale, once you think of
something positive, Lovejoy, peace, understanding, whatever
it is you need. And then on the exhale, get rid
of the garbage. Fear, worry, doubt.
(20:49):
All right, now let's go into free writing.
What's on your mind? If you don't know what's on your
mind, write that down. That's the first line.
I don't know what's on my mind. And then they write for 5
minutes. Don't ask me if you can share.
I don't want to know. That is between you and the
paper. That's between you and spirit.
I don't need to know. We don't share.
(21:10):
We don't share. All right, 5 minutes.
All right, here's your affirmation statement for today.
I am the architect of my life. I build its foundation and I
choose its contents. What does that mean?
Who has control over how your life goes?
We do exactly what is the foundation of your of your
(21:30):
building. And that's where I get into, I
talk about in the book gratitudeversus grievance.
Did you wake up this morning wasthe first thing on your mind
gratitude or grievance? Because whichever 1 you started
with, that's how your whole day is going to go.
So the foundation of your life is either gratitude or
grievance. There's only two emotions.
We come into this world with fear and love and everything
falls under one of those. Pick 1.
(21:54):
So if your foundation is gratitude, then one of the
contents that you are now putting into that building and
and you have to stick with that because again, it's not just for
them, it's also for you, the teacher.
It is the reminder for you, the teacher of your why?
Why am I here 'cause I shouldn'ttell?
Don't get paid well. You're right, even just even
(22:19):
just listening to you go throughthat, it settles the mind and it
settles you so that you are ableto take on more.
It's like that whole filled sponge thing, you know, like,
but you know you. I love the writing component
also. And I know writing essential to
your pedagogy, like, but for women and girls in particular.
(22:41):
And I realize you're writing forall students, but for, for, for
our purposes, we're also specifically leaning towards
women and girls. How does reclaiming voice become
a form of survival? No, I don't like to say
survival, Thriving, thriving. How does it become a form of
thriving? It allows young women in
particular to reconnect itself, 'cause I mean, again, I cannot
(23:04):
tell you how many young women come to this class, These girls,
I I have so many stories of young girls who are just.
I had one young lady last semester, born and raised in
Afghanistan, brought to this country.
Yeah, I tell you how many times that young lady stood before me
crying because of the conflict between her parents and what she
(23:28):
wanted. Now in America, because my class
challenges belief systems in ways that harm the individual,
but when you belong to a culturewhere women are not allowed to
have voice, my class can be quite challenging because I'm
I'm giving you pieces, I'm giving you stories and I'm
giving you activities, opportunities that allow you to
(23:50):
tap into self. And I don't have all the
answers. You have to figure out how do
you now take that into your community that doesn't allow
that or that that looks down upon that.
And you know that young lady, the last time I saw her, because
she disappeared the last two weeks of class, the last thing
she said to me was she gave me ahug and she cried.
(24:12):
She was crying. She said, Miss Pierce, I wish
you were my mother. And it broke me because I know,
oh God, I'm probably gonna cry and think about it because
there's nothing I could do but to encourage her to just keep,
keep finding you, keep looking for you, keep reading, keep
(24:34):
writing, you know, keep present because it's so overwhelming
when these young women, they want so much for their lives,
but the gatekeepers have hidden the key.
And in some cases they have to re redesign a key, their own
unique key to that, to their lives.
And so I also say kind of going back to the breath work, what I
(24:59):
do for students who don't want to engage with that type of
process, I say to them, well, you will respect everyone else
in this class while we do this. If you don't want to participate
in the breath work, then you areto sit there and to remain quiet
until we are done because what we will not have is disrespect
of others choices. You don't have to participate,
(25:20):
but you must remain quiet because we are a collective, we
are a group. And in this class we are rolling
on this train together. So if you don't want to
participate, that is fine. I'm not going to be mad at you.
There's no grade for this. But I would hope that at some
point you would want to try this, right?
And so so for what you begin to see in the writing is that the
(25:41):
young women in particular, but but it's but even the young men,
they begin to express in their writing how this these
activities before the lesson activities have begun to help
them outside of the classroom recenter and gather themselves.
It's beginning to help them finda voice, their voice.
(26:03):
It's beginning to help them shape that voice, getting to
help them see that they have a voice and they can speak on
certain things. And so for young women, what
it's beginning to do is it's beginning to allow them to say,
Oh my God, I do matter. I matter more than I ever
thought. Yes, you do.
(26:24):
You do. And so it it's given, it's given
confidence by the end of 15 weeks.
I mean, again, how do you get 18to 27 students to buy into this
type of activity for 15 weeks? You have to be persistent.
You have to be consistent. You cannot get off the track.
Every time we meet, this is whatwe're doing.
(26:44):
It's on the syllabus. This is what we're doing every
week, every. Time, you know, it's, it's
awesome because you're giving them like it's, it's in some
ways it's like creating focus, right?
Like so that they have focus, but it's also giving them the
space to like open up and breathe and and kind of get
clear on things. Especially, you know, you talked
(27:06):
about that that young woman and so many women here, even growing
up here are, are conditioned to be good, quiet, composed.
Don't be too much, don't speak up, you know, put yourself kind
of in the corner. I'm just all of a sudden thought
of baby in the corner. But what happens when girls are
given space to be fully human? And then connected to and then
(27:29):
connect them to stories where that is demonstrating.
So I talk a lot. I talk a couple times in a book
about how one of the first stories we read is so generous.
Ain't a woman. Now, this piece is powerful, not
just for the young girls, 'causeI'm gonna tell you, most of the
young men in my class gravitate to that speech by the time we're
done. Because what I show them in this
(27:50):
speech is this. How could a woman newly free
from slavery who sued, had the audacity to sue the United
States government to get her child back from her Master, from
the master saying that her childwas sold illegally?
And not only to have the bravadoto find a lawyer and go do that,
but to win. And then to say that God called
(28:12):
me to travel this country to speak against the evils of
gender inequality and race by extension.
And then for her to walk, because ain't no buses, there
ain't no train, ain't none of that in 1851, for her to walk to
Ohio, stand in front of that National Convention Center
(28:33):
building. And this is where I always stop
my students. And I say to them, what must she
have been thinking and saying toherself before she walked into
that building where she knew behind those doors was a group
of white men and white women that could immediately sell her
back into slavery? Because what law was just
instituted one year prior to 1851, one out of maybe 27
(28:58):
students knows the law. And that law is the Fugitive
Slave Law Act, which says you can snatch any colored person
off the street and sell it back into slavery.
So you got this big 6 foot and some change black woman who is
standing in front of this door. And on the other side is all
these white folks who could put her back into slavery.
(29:20):
And she's standing outside that door saying, I'm gonna, I'm
gonna go in here and I'm gonna demand to speak.
What had what kind of belief system did she have about
herself that she felt she could do that?
Who gave her the authority to dothat?
What did we say? What did the kids say?
(29:41):
When you when you position it like that, what did they say?
They attach. It to these affirmation
statements because by then they've had like 4 weeks, 2 * a
week of an affirmation statementand they'll go find one that I
have given them and they'll say whatever it is that whichever
one speaks to them about her. But I have to, I say to what
(30:03):
kind of mindset did this woman have?
And then when she and I tell herthat I said, picture it, the
door, she pushes that door open and everybody turns and in that
doorway is this big 6 foot 200, and some changed black woman who
walks boldly to the front of theroom and says, may I speak?
(30:24):
And these people are they know who she is because her
reputation precedes her and nobody tells her no.
And she stands up there and the first thing she says is I am for
women's rights. Not I'm a slave, former slave,
not I'm a black woman, Negro woman, colored woman, but I am a
(30:47):
woman. And that is claiming of self.
No matter what anybody says about you, that is claiming of
self. And yeah, we go into, you know,
that this was really, you know, transcribed by another woman, a
white woman reporter. That was very rare for the time
for a white woman to be a reporter, to have that as her
(31:08):
job. And we go into these, you know,
I I do touch upon these different translations, but the
fact of the matter is everybody agrees that the opening was I am
a woman's rights. And so I say to them, if she can
do that in 1851, what, How many years ago was that?
And they'll say 160 in here. So this woman who had everything
against her, who risked her lifeto do that, can declare and
(31:33):
stand for who she knows herself to be.
Why can't you do the same thing in 2026?
Why can't you do that? Ain't nobody about to put you in
slavery. There are no, no, no, there are
no, you know, dangerous men waiting out the door to snatch
you and sell you back down to Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama.
(31:55):
What are the responses? I mean because this.
Is like they are intrigued by her and from then on all they
want to do is write by her to the point where I have to tell
my students you can only write about soldier the truth because
they begin to attach her to the to the discovery of their own
voices. Yes, and I must say, you know,
you are a phenomenal storyteller.
(32:17):
So how you approach this and howyou tell a story has got to draw
them into and it, you know, everybody, anybody who's been
lucky enough to have an amazing teacher at some point in their
lives remembers these things, these lessons that you've gotten
and and you know, they're like little tiny highlights in your
(32:38):
life. And I'm sure that you're giving
that to your students through this.
But when, when institutions failstudents, when they don't offer
this because this is, this is like a life changing stuff, like
what you're offering is life changing stuff.
When it's not like that, when the alternative is, you know,
you've got a teacher and and they're not all new teachers,
(32:58):
right? New teachers are everyone.
But some teachers have been they're like, I've been doing it
like this for 40 years. Yeah, and I'm sticking it.
This is the way it is. We come in, it's the blah blah,
blah, blah blah blah blah blah. Who's left to carry the
consequences of this? Unfortunately, and again, as as
I have to tell my students, and I've had former students come
(33:20):
back and say, Miss Pierce, sorry, who's my new English
teacher, She's nothing like you.I said, I already told you,
there ain't nobody else in the world like me.
You ain't gonna find ain't nobody if you are lucky to have
another teacher like me. God bless you.
Because listen, I had some greatteachers.
My education was multicultural. I grew up in Stockton, CA in the
(33:40):
80s and the 90s around gangs andgang violence, gun violence,
drug violence. I speak to that a lot.
I let my students know, baby, I'm from the hood, I'm educated,
but I'm from the hood. And I.
She will come out when necessary, right?
But I had nominal teachers in high school.
I had two in particular, 2 whitefemale teachers in high school,
(34:04):
Missus Sherry Pratt, Rest in Peace, and Missus Sarah
Davenport. Missus Pratt was my English
teacher and Missus Davenport wasmy history teacher.
And Missus Davenport is still alive and I sent her a copy of
my book, which I'm so excited I got to do that.
But they brought what these two women gave to us was permission
to find ourselves in the text. The way that Mrs. Pratt taught
(34:25):
English, I had an AP English, freshman English, the way that
she brought storytelling alive for us.
And the way that Mrs. Davenport,even with the constrictions then
about teaching history, she allowed us to find ourselves in
the text. And then to bring that in the
classroom was like potlucks and bringing in different foods and
stories from each of our different cultures because it
(34:47):
was a multicultural high school.And both of these women marched
for women's rights in the 60s, civil rights and women's rights.
So I had a foundation of teachers who were like, we ain't
taking them back. And then my 7th grade teacher,
Missus Knight, Miss Knight, 8th grade English teacher, teaching
this night. She was also phenomenal.
(35:08):
And then when I went on to college, you know, San Francisco
State is where, well, I started at UC Santa Barbara.
I had teachers from all over theworld.
I had teachers from Africa. I had teachers from Scotland,
from England, and these teacherswere renowned experts in their
craft. So I had one teacher who's a
renowned expert in Frederick Douglass, and yes, I did
challenge him and he loved it. I had questions because I had
(35:30):
never heard of Frederick Douglass.
Unfortunately, I had teachers who I had English, the teachers
that gave us 5 of it because they allowed us to understand
context. And then at San Francisco State,
I had a law professor who reallycemented everything for me and
showed me how to further draw incontext into the instruction.
(35:53):
So the ability to tell stories, this is the teachers investment
on trying to find out who these people were.
This is called live or lived teaching lived history.
Don't teach these people as if they were not real.
You need to give context. Again, what law was going on
(36:13):
that made the situation dangerous for Sojourner?
The Missouri Compromise, the Fugitive Slave Law Act, What was
going on in one of the other pieces I gave them that I talked
about was Aaron Aubrey Kaplan's Black Flag.
I thought I was, which is a non fiction piece.
What was going on in the 80s, excuse me, in the late 90s,
early 2000s with the creation ofat home DNA tests, the census,
(36:38):
What did the census tell us in the early 2000 that the country
was going to be what by 2040? Primarily Brown.
And then all of a sudden you start seeing these changes in
laws and access, why it's a response to that census, that
data saying that this country isgoing to be predominantly brown.
And so you unfortunately, it does fall on the teacher to find
(37:01):
the connections between the text, the lived experiences of
the people that they're teachingand then connect that to the
students. I I really don't like that
students, if I say what happenedto 1865 have them were like the
Civil War ended. OK, Did it really?
(37:22):
You know what? Imagine.
What does it mean? Yeah, you're like.
It's why the context like why did the Emancipation
Proclamation truly free anyone? Y'all better read the language.
It did not. It did not.
But you got to ask yourself, whywould Abraham Lincoln establish
such a such a doctrine? What was he doing?
(37:44):
What's going on? And again, that's why I give,
you know, my book. I talk about the art of writing.
And the fifth one is writers write about what's happening in
their world. So if I'm going to give you this
story from 1851, I need to be able to explain to you what was
happening in 1851 because writers write about what's
(38:05):
happening in the world. That is what's missing an
instruction. Today.
Teachers are rushed and pressed to just push kids out the door.
And it is a you have to fight tosay, no, I'm not pushing these
young people out. I'm going to give them context.
But I'm also going to help me bebetter at my craft and enjoy
(38:27):
what I do. And I'm going to learn a little
bit about these people. And and it makes the whole thing
so much more fulfilling, I wouldimagine, from being a successful
teacher. And then it also gives again the
IT gives the students, the youngpeople, regardless if it's an
English class, A history class, A music class or theater class,
(38:50):
it gives the young, the studentspermission to believe that they
can tell their stories too. So if Sojourner, even though she
was illiterate, if she can stillget up there and tell her story,
why can't I? And I have the gift of reading
and writing. I have that.
Absolutely, it's like that shared bravery and inspiration
(39:13):
to see to see something like that.
But you know, you said to about the educator getting something
out of it also. And let me ask you.
So you're giving a lot, right? You're you're, you're giving a
lot to the kids. You're giving a lot of thought.
Like you said, you're keeping the time.
You're not rushing these kids. So that's a lot on you as the
(39:33):
person leading the classroom. What boundaries have you had to
learn as a woman, as a teacher, between serving others and
disappearing yourself? Oh no, I don't disappear.
No, I learned a long time ago about that.
I think that's one of the thingsmy military background kind of
gave me before I came to the classroom is that I, I had seen
(39:56):
so much in the service that I had made the decision as a young
woman. I mean, I joined at 20 and got
out at 2627. That I was not gonna let anybody
make me hide, but that I also had to learn how to pull back
when it was becoming too overwhelming for me.
So I've learned how to how to doa search inside of me and say
(40:19):
OK, where am I at in this process?
Number one, and again, this is not for everybody, but the first
thing I do before I ever enter my classroom is I have a prayer
and it's always Lord, whatever it is you need me to give these
young people today, use me to dothat.
But I, you know, whatever is forme, let it be.
Let me see it. Let it be for me too.
So it is always my, my thing that I pray and then I do my
(40:42):
breath before I walk into the classroom because I know it's
heavy what I'm bringing. And then how do I support these
young people through this entire15 week, you know, 15 and 10 or
15 week process. And so sometimes I have learned
to be very aware, hyper, not even hyper vigilant, but
(41:03):
vigilant about if this is going,if this is pulling too much on
my students. OK, so I will, I will take a
look around and if I see that it's too it's that my students
are, then I'll say, OK, let's take a breath and I'll go back
and I'll look at my syllabus andI'll be like, you know what?
I'm moving this, I'm moving it. I'm either moving it or I'm
(41:25):
deleting it or I'm extending it.And sometimes I'll even say, you
know what? Today's just the day to have
fun. We're just gonna have some fun.
Yeah. We're not going to do this
today. Or I'm going to figure out a way
to make it fun. I'm going to find a creative
writing opportunity for it because I also do a lot of
creative writing in the class. I have them do activities called
opening lines. And I put that in the book, an
opening line, a closing line to really get them into the to the
(41:47):
head of a writer. Like, here's the opening line,
now you've got to finish the rest of the story.
But they do it as groups. They rarely do it alone.
So I try to make that fun. And then I've learned to let go
of necessarily, you know, let goof hard deadlines.
You know, the only hard deadlineis when they gotta take a final
exam. I'm not doing all that.
So I'll be like, you know, we'regonna spend 40 minutes.
We just may have fun with this. Because they need to see inflex
(42:11):
flexibility. They need to see that everything
is rigid, that life is also about having fun.
Life is about also paying attention to you and what's
going on with you, how you're feeling, and then also paying
attention to others. Looking at the room.
Well, these young people are overwhelmed.
Well, we pull them back today. Today's just going to be a
riding day. Today's going to be riding.
Lamp, it's interesting because you actually have, you know, the
(42:34):
being having come from a military background which is so
regimented and strict. To have that flexibility is
pretty unique that you've managed to kind of take the best
of all of these worlds to createthis classroom where your
students have the structure and they have like the safety of
(42:54):
that structure, but they also have that flexibility.
Yes, that just shows that you'rehuman.
It's important. It's important to do that and
everything education. Well, I do tell my students this
education should be uncomfortable because it needs
to stretch you. It needs to help you expand.
So if you walk into a classroom and you are too comfortable,
you're not learning. And what I mean by that is the,
(43:18):
the assignments, the activities,they should grow you and but,
and so who's to say that creative writing, that fun
writing can't do that like writing always have to be so
rigid. So what we're gonna do ABC
today? And then I said what that now?
No, there's also lessons in creative writing and fun writing
(43:38):
and group activities. There's fun in that.
And that's another way to learn.So I, I just, I try to be open.
Whatever spirit needs me to do in this classroom today, I'm
open to that. I know there are things that I
have to get done, like, you know, the school has
requirements for, you know, certain things that have to be
done at certain points. But why can't I have fun doing
(43:59):
that as well? Why can't that?
Why can't my classroom be the space where students know
they're not only going to come to be challenged intellectually
and in skill, but also will be, it's a space where they can find
themselves, where they can beginto craft voice.
They can understand the power ofstorytelling and where they can
(44:22):
have fun, where they can laugh. Teachers tough, but she's fair.
She's honest. And I'm not a huggy type person,
but there have been moments whenI've seen that students need a
need a hug. And I will, I will stop the
whole class and say, oh, you know what, if you need a hug,
let's let's do it. I'm here because that's
important to be seen. That is the thing.
(44:45):
And I and that's what my students have.
And you go back 20 years, they've all said that to be seen
as everything and not seen in a way that is, that is false.
You know, this false imagery, this false sense of self, you
know, like being an influencer, for example, not that, but to be
(45:07):
seen, someone sees me, I exist. And so to offer that students,
especially our immigrant students, they need that.
They absolutely need that. And I'm here to offer that
because I know what it's like tosit behind the desk and have a
teacher who's been teaching for 40 years and they whip out the
(45:28):
same lecture notes that are now yellowed and frayed from 40
years ago. Oh, yes, I do.
Right. I remember them days.
I said I never want to be that teacher and everyone no.
And but you know, you, you're, you're, it's interesting too,
because you clearly care so muchabout your students.
And then you're funny because you're like, I'm not a hugger.
(45:48):
I'm not but. But it's, but you've got so much
care in you and, and it's, it seems like there's like a lot of
spirituality to that. And you've mentioned praying
before you go into the classroom.
How, for you, has faith shaped your understanding of womanhood,
leadership, and care? It has, it hasn't the grounding,
(46:09):
the grounding, the foundation for who I am and what I do now,
I don't go in the classroom and tell students and pray that's a
no, no, we don't do that. And I always tell them, hey,
what I'm here for. No, no, that may be who I am,
but that's not what I'm here for.
I'm offering you the opportunityto connect to you and these
three practices allow me to do that.
(46:32):
And you can take these things with you wherever you go.
Their final exam question is, what are three things you've
learned about yourself this semester that you will take with
you into both your part, your professional world and your
personal. And that is important for them
to be able to see themselves in the, in the learning process,
how far they've come. For me, faith has always been
(46:54):
and will always be the Center for who I am.
Because what it allows me to do is to see my student, to look at
the syllabus and say, OK, this isn't going to work today or to
bring in others into the classroom because they need to
hear more than just my voice. To find another way to teach
these very different learners, to make this personal, to tell
(47:19):
the story. It allows me to do that.
Faith allows you to see others, to see yourself in others.
And so yes, I, my prayer is thatbefore I walk into the
classroom, it will always be that.
Do the students know? No, they don't have to know.
All they know is that this class, this space, this is where
(47:40):
I'm growing. This teacher is firm, but she's
fair. She's tough, but she's fun.
And so do they. They, they need to see that.
I think part of what's missing, again, as I said earlier in our
conversation, was that young teachers are not taught that.
We're not teaching young teachers how to bring a whole
(48:03):
authentic self into the curriculum, the syllabus, and
thus into the classroom. OK, real quick, if you're
listening and thinking more women should be hearing
conversations like this, the best way to support the show is
just to follow or subscribe wherever you are.
It really does help it reach more people.
Thanks so much. OK, back to the show, when you
(48:24):
were starting out teacher versuswhere you are now, was it, you
know, it was different, I'm surein your classroom you didn't
have the self assuredness, you didn't have all the stuff as a
teacher. That experience that you had, is
it was it very different than how you teach now?
Actually, no, that's awesome. No.
(48:44):
Well, the only thing is that with public school, I knew in
teaching public school, I was not going to be able to go
further with certain things likefaith.
And like faith, I knew I had it for me before I came to the
classroom. But I knew that I couldn't
really get down into who you areas an individual in the high
(49:05):
school, in the in the secondary level because of all the
constrictions around secondary education.
But how, what kind of secondary teacher I was, was it almost
exactly is who I still am. I was very aware of my students,
where they were at, where we needed to be, but I was also
aware of the rules and so, but I, I rules are meant to be
(49:27):
broken. So for.
Example. So for example, I remember I had
a 10th grade class and we were in the textbook was a short
story about Malcolm X. And I was like, Oh my God, yeah,
I'm going to, you know, I'm going to read this piece.
And I had already, you know, talked about who Malcolm X was
and just the, the, the now who he was as a, as an antagonist,
(49:51):
but who he was as an individual.Sorry, growing up without a
father who this person is. And I was like, we're gonna read
this short story. Well, one student, I guess the
parent asked what were they reading?
And the student told the parent.And then the parent called up to
the school and was vehement thatthey didn't want their child to
learn anything about that white man hating Malcolm X.
(50:13):
And I said, well, clearly their education didn't go no further
than 1963 because the Malcolm X that left this earth was not off
a white man hating Malcolm X. And that just really shows you
about how certain characters aretaught in class.
And so my my direct supervisor, she was like, well, you know,
(50:35):
Miss Pierce, you can't teach that short story.
I said, OK, that's fine, I'll goanother way.
I'll teach Marcus Garvey. And I told Marcus Garvey because
nobody know who Marcus Garvey is.
They don't know that you wouldn't have a Malcolm X if
there hadn't been a Marcus Garvey.
(50:56):
And so, and I know you're listening to who's Marcus
Garvey. Well, I'm not going to go in
today. Y'all have to go find out who
Marcus Garvey is. But know that he, you know, was
a Jamaican born public speaker who came to America because he,
you know, wanted to end colorism.
He wanted black people of all colors to use to feel a sense of
pride in who they were. And he was just basically
(51:18):
continuing the conversation about if America continues to
treat black people in this particular way, should we leave?
Right. But more than anything, he he
gave to black America this senseof pride in being I'm black and
I'm proud. So he precedes Malcolm X, he
(51:38):
precedes the Nation of Islam, heprecedes James Brown.
I'm black and I'm proud. He precedes the Black Arts
movement in this country. But ain't nobody teaching him
because OK, well, I won't get inthere because publicly.
School gotcha. My specialty is African American
literature. You don't want me.
We won't do that. But just know that that was my
(52:00):
way around that because I'm like, you can't, you can't
disregard such a pivotal moment in American history and in
American literature. You know, Alex Haley wrote
Malcolm X's autobiography. You, you can't dismiss that
because you only got 1/2 of the story.
And that's my whole goal when I go into the classroom.
We will not do half of the story.
(52:22):
This is why context is so important.
Those people didn't want Harry, excuse me, Sojin, or to speak,
not only because they didn't seeher as a woman, but because the
woman is the suffragist did not want to confuse women's rights
with slavery, right, with the ending of slavery.
(52:42):
And so a lot of young people don't know that because that's
not taught. These contexts are not taught.
So I have always been that kind of teacher that's going to find
another way to teach this in a way that helps these young
people find their way and see their voice and see that who
they are, who they come from is just as beautiful as anybody
(53:02):
else. Well, and I think that the fact
that you have so much context around your own life too.
There's so much and I wanted to ask you about that too.
I know we don't have all day, but I, I'm going to keep you as
long as I have. But you create work across many
spaces. So in addition to your expertise
as a, as a teacher, you, you've written an affirmations journal.
(53:23):
Repeat after me, Sis, you're writing and teaching, obviously
your bakery. You host the podcast Beyond the
Plate RV and you've talked aboutbringing all of that under what
you call the Nourishment Collective.
Yes. Could you tell me a little bit
about that? Well, for a long time I did.
I struggled with these. What a lot of young people
struggle with and and you know, need help on finding their way
(53:46):
through is what happens when youhave multiple pieces of you that
likes to do different things. The world, this world is so
pressed to make a person one thing, and I just refuse.
And so I I just. Love you, I love you you're
like, I just won't do it I. Won't do it because we come here
with so many wonderful gifts. It's just that one gift is the
(54:08):
umbrella for them all. And it's the trick is
recognizing what that one umbrella is.
And for me, and I've, I've said this for years, the umbrella is
education. And underneath that umbrella is
teaching, writing and speaking. And so when I started looking
at, well, who am I as a Baker? Well, baking, I opened up the
bakery because I was leaving teaching, because I was burnt
(54:30):
out. I was tired.
And I knew that baking made me feel good.
It calmed me down. It was another way for me to
express my love and sincerity for being here for families, for
people, for my own story, my family's food story.
And it's just an extension, a further extension of me.
I'm a foodie person. I, of course, I love food, but I
(54:50):
love the story of, of food and particularly soul food and just
how our, how our palates are often shaped by our culture, our
cultural experiences with food and how that also shapes our
mindset about food. And so I'm a writer, that's what
I do. And I just feel like writers
should should try different genres.
(55:13):
And so being a playwright is first and foremost who I am.
I love theater and and theater has informed my ability to tell
stories in fiction and in nonfiction.
I just feel like writers should try those different modes or
mediums to figure out where theycan grow the most, but also to
(55:34):
challenge them, right. So the nourishment collective I
came down to, what spirit gave me was that do not be ashamed of
these different pieces of you because no matter where someone
finds you, Rebecca, they find you.
And it is that wherever that is,that is what that person needed
at the moment. So if they find me on my foodie
(55:56):
podcast, Beyond the Plate RBA, this is where they find me.
And then that will might bring them to Rebecca, the nonfiction
writer with the lemonade mindsetover on Sub Stack, or they might
find my bakery. But wherever they find me, they
have found me. And so I nourish in all of those
platforms. I'm nourishing you in the
(56:16):
bakery, I'm nourishing you on the foodie podcast.
I'm nourishing you in our onlinebookstore in my written text.
That's who I, who I am. I'm a nourish, A nourisher.
I'm, I think I described myself at the end of last semester as I
am a gardener. I plant seeds.
And so wherever you go, you'll find my seed.
That's where I'm at. And so that's kind of how I came
(56:38):
up with the nourishment and kindof wrapping all these different
pieces of me because I all of itis storytelling.
All of it is storytelling. We tell our story through what
we put on our plate. We tell our story through what
we listen to and what we read. We tell our story and how we
position words on the page. We tell our story and how we
(57:00):
show up. And that's, that's my, you know,
my whole framing for the nourishment collective.
Wherever you find me, you have found me.
You have found nourishment. I love this and I love that
there are so many ways to find you in so many different ways
that you do nourish. And and that leads me to my last
question for you, which is thereare women listening who are
(57:20):
exhausted from holding everyone else together and they and
nourishing others. What do you want them to hear
today? Yeah.
No, you come first again. I don't.
I don't step into the. I have to.
I'm really serious about this and I've been writing about this
for a long time. This is why I started the
Lemonade mindset and why I started affirmations for myself.
(57:44):
I can't care for others if I don't care for the greatest love
of my life 1st and that is me. And so if it's going to empty my
well, then I can't do it. If if someone says they love you
but they keep doing the thing that hurts you and you and you
keep telling them to stop, they keep doing it.
That's not love. And so you have to learn how to
(58:06):
let them go. So my memoir that I wrote called
I love me more. That was my after leaving my,
you know, my tumultuous, violentmarriage, I learned from that
experience that I can't give my light to other people.
That light belongs to me. And it's my job to make sure
that it continues to shine. And so if it's going to rob me
(58:27):
of my health, which I have learned the hard way about being
robbed of my health because I gave too much to every to
everything, if it's going to robme of my house, if it's going to
rob me of my voice, if it's going to try to steal my joy,
then I don't want it. So I work on me before I can
give anything to anyone else. And that that is so important.
(58:50):
I know the word no, it's a sentence and I don't have to
explain it. And sometimes, you know, but
sometimes even I struggle with explaining because people be
like, why? And I just learned how to tell
people because I said no. Yes, it is.
Yes. Right.
So, but I've had to learn also to not be like, Oh my God,
they're gonna hate me. I don't care.
(59:12):
And and it's, it's almost the same.
And I don't wanna say I don't care because even caring is an
emotion. But what I say is this, you
know, particularly for my students, I'm not here to be
your friend. I have a job to do and I'm going
to do my job. But if by the end of this we
become friends and this is the best thing ever, but I am not
your friend at this moment. So you will call me Professor
(59:35):
Pierce or you will call me Doctor Pierce, or you will call
me Miss Rebecca or you will callme Miss Pierce.
But what you will not do is callme by my first name because we
are not on the same level. And that's not to be
disrespectful, but that's to teach you to understand the
journey that I have been to beenthrough to find me.
And you have to respect that journey.
You ain't got to like it, but you got to respect it.
(59:55):
And so at some point, unless youwant to be put in the ground at
a young age. Whether it's your children, your
mate, or your your coworkers, you're going to have to learn
how to put you first. If it does not feed your soul,
if it does not grow you and expand you, if it does not align
(01:00:16):
with who you know yourself to beor who you want to be, then the
answer is no. Stop trying to be seen in the
negative way. Oh my gosh, she does everything.
Look at her. Because baby, when you die,
what's going to go on your tombstone the day you were born
and the day you died? Not she made the best cookies on
the planet. That ain't going like your king
stuff. This this, by the way, is
(01:00:40):
totally reminding me of when we first hopped on the phone.
I'm like, I just cut my son a bagel.
Yes, that's going to go in between.
She cut the best bagels. She.
Cut the best bagels. Yeah, no, I'm not doing that.
And, and it's just really getting to that moment when you,
when you realize, you know, you have a choice and how you want
to live your life, gratitude or grievance.
(01:01:03):
How are you stepping into the classroom?
Because I had a lot of teachers emailing me about, Oh my God, I
hate going, I'm dragging going back to work and like, why?
That's the mindset. That's all you.
That is all you. You could change that instantly.
It doesn't matter what them children are doing.
When you walk to that classroom,that's your classroom.
The attitude you carry into thatclassroom dictates how that
(01:01:23):
classroom is going to go. So if you are learning how to
quiet yourself, heal yourself, begin that healing process,
figure out what works for you, what's growing you, what's
stifling you, what's hindering you.
Then you will look at not returning to to the classroom as
Ugg, but as we, but returning tothe classroom as this is my
(01:01:46):
space, this is me. This is where I shine, this is
where I grow and I have an opportunity to give that to
someone else. Don't let them people upset you,
Rock You. Oh, no, ma'am, because at the
end of the day, once again, the birth date and the date date you
died. No, ma'am.
No, I don't play that. Not no more, no.
(01:02:08):
Rebecca, you are awesome. I am so grateful that you were
here. I feel like there's so many
takeaways and I love by the way,I keep talking and not letting
you go, but how you say gratitude versus grievance
because so many people are like gratitude, gratitude, gratitude.
And I've actually like said before in a gratitude class once
I was like, I feel like, I'm so doing this like without
(01:02:29):
thinking, it's not feeling like deep gratitude.
I keep writing my coffee like, but when you look at it versus
gratitude versus grievance, it'sthe whole, my, it's your whole
shift. It's how you're it's you can see
what you don't want. Exactly.
And again, it's just again, as I, as I press into my students,
(01:02:54):
as soon as those eyes open, you've got to start training
your brain to go immediately to gratitude.
Thank you. And and if you believe in God or
not, whether it's thank you, Godor just thank you.
Because the truth of the matter is you really had no say as to
whether or not your heart wantedto keep beating or if your lungs
(01:03:17):
wanted to keep processing air. You have no control over that.
Your body works autonomously, right?
Involuntarily mean you don't getto control that.
The only thing you can control is how you think as soon as your
eyes open. Oh, that's so good.
Thank you so much. You are awesome.
Thank you so much for being heretoday.
I can't thank you enough. And I'm going to have all the
(01:03:39):
information you we talked about,including a link to Marcus
Garvey in the show notes. Please do that.
I will absolutely do that. Absolutely.
Thank you so much you're. Welcome.
Thank you so much for having me and have a great day.
You too. I really appreciated this
conversation with Rebecca, especially the way she
challenged some of the assumptions we make so quickly
(01:03:59):
about kids and behavior, and howthose assumptions often say more
about what we've been taught to expect than what's actually
going on. That shift alone can change
everything, and next week we're taking that idea of rethinking
what's not working and turning it into something else entirely
new. We're talking about what happens
when frustration isn't somethingto push through, but something
(01:04:20):
to pay attention to with the oneand only Jess Eckstrom.
In the meantime, if this episodeopened your eyes like it opened
mine, send it to a friend. That's how these conversations
keep going. Thanks for joining us.
See you next time on ROAR.
The problem is, and the problem has always been that women are
not nurtured outside of that. And inside of it, we're not
given the tools, we're told to just figure it out.
This is why we're very creative and intuitive, right?
And we've had to figure out how to make this work for our
charges and but mostly at the detriment of our own well-being.
(00:26):
That's Rebecca Pierce, and this is Roar.
Hi everybody. This is Danielle Davies, the
host of ROAR. Today's guest is Rebecca Pierce,
educator, author, veteran, and awomanist whose work sits at the
intersection of teaching, healing, faith, and care, and my
(00:47):
other things. Rebecca is the author of Before
the Lesson Begins, a book that challenges one of our most
deeply ingrained assumptions that learning should begin with
productivity rather than humanity.
Drawing from decades in the classroom, she argues that
before content, before assessment, before performance,
there must be breath, reflection, and affirmation.
(01:07):
What makes this conversation especially aligned with ROAR is
Rebecca's womanist lens. Womanism asks us to pay
attention to who's doing the work of sustaining communities
emotionally, relationally, and spiritually, especially in
places in spaces shaped by inequality in education, that
sustaining labor has long fallento women, and disproportionately
(01:28):
to women of color. This episode is about what it
means to teach, lead, and advocate inside systems that
were never designed for wholeness, and how women so
often become the ones holding space, absorbing harm, and
quietly creating conditions for others to survive and grow.
Rebecca, welcome to ROAR. Thank you, that was a lovely
intro. Oh thank you so much.
(01:49):
I'm starting to think it's my it's my specialty.
I was like if it nobody listens to anything else, just listen to
the intro. I love it.
It was good. I'm.
Good. I'm so glad and thank you so
much for being here. Oh, you're welcome.
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
I. Appreciate it.
Well, I'm just going to dive right in because I know that,
you know, feminism's like, you know, a big catch all term and
(02:10):
and I am a feminist. I consider myself a feminist,
but you identify explicitly as awomanist, not just as an
educator or an advocate or even a feminist.
What does womanism give you intellectually or spiritually,
that mainstream feminism doesn't?
Well, feminism doesn't consider spirituality or individuality in
(02:31):
terms of your connection to whatever you choose to call the
energy that guides your life. God, the divine, Yahweh,
whatever. I refer to it as God, of course,
or the universe. And so feminism is really and
believe me, I was a feminist too.
I'm still partially feminist, right?
But feminism does not allow for introspection on an individual
(02:51):
level. And then to be able to bring
that introspection, that self-awareness into the
classroom and then attach it to curriculum.
It it doesn't do that. Feminism only looks at gender
equality, inequality, excuse me,and, and systems, but what
womanism does is it allows you to go even further than that.
How are these, how are people impacted by systems on both a
(03:16):
spiritual level and emotional level, a physical level, a
financial level? How are we impacted by that?
And when you look at the classroom, that is the greatest
micro microcosm for where you can see the impact of systems
on, on individual learning, access to learning, but also as
(03:36):
a group, the impact of a system that was designed to keep others
out. You can see that impact in the
classroom. And again, I teach at the
collegiate level, but I started out in a public school teaching
the high school English. And this is where I started
seeing that there was a huge gapin being able to connect the
(03:58):
individual to what it is that they're learning and why they're
learning it. The why was missing just the,
oh, we got to learn this today, but why?
How is that connected to my own lived experiences?
Especially when you're not saying like the why is to pass a
test like? Exactly.
And you know, passing a test is not always indicative of having
(04:20):
learned anything. And you know, I say that to my
students, if you get an A in my class, whether you get an A or
AC, you know that you worked your butt off and you did the
work. Because my class is not about a
grade, it's about who you are asan individual that is connected
to a community. So how can I bring you to the
(04:43):
awareness of your individuality so that then you can be ready to
receive what I'm about to teach you, the skills I'm about to
give you. How can you do that?
So womanism for me is all-encompassing.
It looks at race, it looks at gender inequality, it looks at
socioeconomic status. It looks at all of that and then
says, but who am I as a human being?
(05:04):
And, and, and what is my, what is my role in this world?
What is my why? And how can I tell my story in a
way that it it it belongs to me,but it also gives others
permission to find their story and tell it as well?
I love this. Thank you for the explanation
because I was looking into it and it seems like it's like a
(05:24):
more robust, I mean not not to just compare it, but a more
robust. It is.
It goes further, you know, because because I'm also a
humanist. I mean, that's how I started
teaching as a humanist. And you know, humanism looks at
the humanity. That's what that's what you do.
Look at the totality of the picture.
Like how did we get here? So when you merge humanism with
(05:47):
the microcosm, a little small piece of humanism, which is
feminism, but then wrap it around womanism, that gives you
a bigger picture of all of thesethings.
And the and the little dot in the middle is the human being,
the self. How is the self impacted by the
outer circle? All these things that are out
there, How does it allow you to grow?
(06:09):
How does it stymie growth? You know, how, how does it do
that? And that's, that's a big thing
that's missing for young people.You know, I, I hear a lot of
talk about, oh, young people don't know this and they don't
feel that that's because nobody's teaching them context
within the frame of all of this hoorah.
Who am I in the middle of all this?
Who do I want to be, who I need to be?
(06:30):
And how do I get there? That's what's missing and that's
what I feel. You know, womanism kind of
allows. I mean, there's, there's
different branches. You could say, I hate to say
branches, but I consider myself a womanist ethicist.
And then I'm looking at the ethics, the ethics of the human
being. And then around that is
leadership. How do you become and how are
(06:51):
you an ethical leader? You know, and then of course,
you have womanist theology and, and, you know, bringing in the
spiritual context and all that. So, yeah, it does.
It does have arms, but the overall reaching the overall
umbrella is that womanism allowsus to first look at self and
then out. I love that.
(07:15):
Thank you. I appreciate it.
And, and Speaking of, you know, self and even coming from the
perspective now of the educatorswho might read your book or the
even just I think lay people would get a benefit from it.
But you know, teaching is a profession dominated by women.
It also requires constant emotional regulation.
Having having been a 6th grade teacher, I can tell you that is
(07:36):
what I lacked. That is why I'm no longer a
teacher. How do you teach there?
How do how do you see women educators being asked to carry
far more than they're resourced or recognized for?
It's destructive. It is destructive and the reason
why teaching it is a heavily female dominated industry is
because it's the only place theyallowed women to go in the 1st
(07:58):
place because women were supposed to be responsible for
the nurturing of children. It's part of the women's fear
philosophy of what the role of awoman was.
It wasn't to be in public speaking or to be in these
so-called male dominated world of you know, journalism,
politics, blah blah blah. Our responsibility was to, let
me rephrase that, the role of white women, the responsibility
was to nurture the home and the children that are in the home.
(08:21):
By extension, black women, particularly after slavery, our
role was to almost do the same thing.
That patriarchal, white patriarchal assumption about
what a woman's role was now thatblack women were considered to
be quote UN quote women, although partially in treatment,
you know, that became our role too.
And that and a lot of people say, well, that's because women
are more nurturing. We do have multi emotions.
(08:44):
We are able, we are able to see around the corner and and
predict and make decisions basedon what we think is around that
corner, based on our lived experiences.
So teaching by extension, becomes a quote UN quote, the
role of the woman because it's about nurturing.
The problem is, and the problem has always been that women are
(09:05):
not nurtured outside of that. And inside of it, we're not
given the tools, we're told to just figure it out.
This is why we're very creative and intuitive, right?
And we've had to figure out how to make this work for our
charges and but mostly at the detriment of our own well-being.
(09:27):
Yeah. At the detriment of our own
well-being, and that has been the biggest cross that we as
women have carried, particularlyin the field of education.
And I say that that has to change because I cannot
authentically and intentionally and in Wellness give what I do
(09:52):
not have in my well to give. And so This is why teachers, you
know, are dropping out. They're leaving their
profession, why we're burned outwhile we're tired, while we're
angry, while we're frustrated. And then this leads into why
we're overstressed, why cardiovascular disease is the
number one killer of black womenin particular.
You know why we're overeating, why we're obese, why we smoke,
(10:12):
why we drink. You know these these effects of
the of the cause, which is y'alljust getting here figured out
you're women, you'll figure it out.
That is so harmful and that's with. 26 sets of eyes on you
like why you know? Yes, 26 and it, and then and
(10:34):
then with 26, not only 26 eyes, but 26 different stories.
Yes, 26 different personalities,26 different traumas, 26
different lived experiences. How do you get a class to buy
into growth and expansion and Wellness when the teacher isn't
(10:57):
even well, Yeah, that's the question.
How do you do? You can't.
That's why the system is so broken.
That's why these kids are, if they make it to me at the
collegiate level, why they don'thave reading skills intact where
they should be. I have grown people reading at
3rd, 4th grade level with assistants, writing at 3rd, 4th
(11:18):
grade level with assistants. These young people don't know
how to analyze rhetorical analysis.
All they know is opinion. And that is an absolute no, no
in the classroom. We're not here for your opinion.
We're here for your position. What is your argument?
What is the evidence to support it?
How do you defend that? And when you have young people
who are coming in the system that only that because they're
(11:40):
tired, our teachers are tired ofworn out and they're not
supported. And and because they're coming
from a system where the teachersare just like here, just go
ahead and do this. Just just go ahead.
Then they had they're not learning those skills in a way
that is life sustaining. That is skill building.
So when they come to our classes, a lot of teachers are
(12:03):
not going to rebuild that skill.They're just going to press
forward. And that means we have young
people failing me. I just can't do that.
You're going to we're going to I'm going to give you, I'm going
to teach you and you're going toleave this classroom better than
when you walk in it. But that also requires energy.
It requires a love, a passion for what you do.
(12:25):
But it also requires Wellness. I have to be well because.
Yes, and I feel like I wasn't even prepared to ask you this
and this is opening up a whole giant.
This is potentially like 6 hour long conversation, but but I
won't do that. I'll just, I'll just briefly
touch on it because you've got obviously suggestions that are
(12:47):
practical and personal and can be used in the classroom, but
systemically in the nation, in the world.
Do you have any thoughts? Because you're right, it's all
just one cycle. I mean, I know as a young
teacher, I was totally overwhelmed, totally afraid,
literally without resources until physical resources, books,
(13:11):
textbooks, until November of my starting year.
The lack of support and it's, itis no one single persons fault.
This is a systemic issue. It goes on and on and on.
You can't blame one principal, one school.
It's all intertwined so much andit and it, of course it leads to
(13:33):
crises when people are older. It leads to a failing economy.
It leads to everything stems from education.
And so I'm just curious what your thoughts are on education
as a whole. I realize this is not.
Oh wow. Yeah.
Just just curious. It's it's killing our young
people. It is killing creativity.
(13:56):
It is stifling joy. It is terrorizing children.
I'm sorry. It is.
It is 'cause when I, when I see these young people come to my
classroom first week of school, these young people are legit
broken. I mean, I, when I returned back
into the classroom in 2022, excuse me, 2024, I literally
(14:22):
witnessed young people falling apart at the slightest question.
And I'm like, why are these babies falling apart?
Because I'm asking them, what did they, why did you write
that? Or how, what other way can we
reframe them? And what I just, what I have
(14:42):
come to believe is that is because they have no, no
foundation of self. You know, COVID did a number, I
think COVID really revealed the true depths and despair of the
educational system in this country because we had students
coming in that are just not there.
And for me to answer the question is it's a hard, it's a
(15:05):
load of question. It literally is one person at a
time. I can't change the.
I mean, when I first started teaching, I went in there like a
lot of young teachers. Oh, I'm going to save the world.
I'm going to save all the children.
No ma'am, but I ended up doing my last year.
I just it's relating. Go ahead.
(15:26):
Right. And and that's the thing I think
that's missing. We're not teaching teachers how
to teach. We're not teaching teachers how
to do that. We're not teaching them how to
be cognizant of their own strengths and weaknesses and
the, and the, and the fantasy and the illusion of what a
teacher is. And so and so I had to come to
(15:47):
the terms with, if I can get oneyoung person to get that light
bulb to go off for one young person in this entire school
year, then I have done my job because all it takes is 1.
If you can reach the one, then the one can go out and reach the
many. And so it's always been my drive
of I'm focusing on the students who want to learn, who want to
(16:08):
be here. I can't save everybody, the rest
of you, we don't want to be here.
There's nothing I can do about that.
But if I can get that one student to buy into what I'm
offering, if I can continue to buy into what I'm offering, what
I'm giving and what I'm receiving, then that that's the
only thing that I can, that I can do.
I can't, I, you know, this, thissystem, the educational system
(16:31):
in this country is just, it was never founded.
It was not founded on equal footing in the first place.
I can get into a whole history of the educational system this
United States of America as an English teacher.
That's a whole 6 hour conversation right there.
Exactly. Exactly.
(16:52):
It was never founded on equality, just or at equal
access to resources. And so we're already behind the
8 ball. So what I feel in writing my
book is that if I can just get the teacher, if I can get that
one teacher, that one human being to buy into, I know I'm
(17:13):
supposed to be here. This is my calling.
But I'm tired, I'm worn out, I'moverwhelmed.
How do I reconnect to get back into this?
And for me, the answer is you'vegot to begin with self.
You've got to start taking care of yourself mentally,
spiritually, physically, becauseyou cannot walk into that
classroom broken. Quick pause, because if you're
(17:36):
listening to Roar, I have a feeling you're exactly the kind
of person I write for. I send out a Substack newsletter
where I go a little deeper, morepersonal stories, behind the
scenes thoughts, and honestly, some of the things we don't
always say out loud here. If you want to stay connected
between episodes, you can find it at Roar with
danielledavies.substack.com. I'd love to have you there.
(17:56):
And now back to your regularly scheduled podcast.
This leads me back to your book.So you write about this, right?
Leading with breath affirmations, reflection for,
you know, before academic content, not just for the
students, but for the teacher, right?
It helps everybody. But these practices are often
treated as secondary, right? Even unnecessary within the
(18:17):
traditional educational system. I-1 time was like, we're going
to do yoga poses. My class, I was a very short
lived teacher. Why do you think forms of care
are so often associated with women?
Why do you think these these thoughts, these forms of care
are so often undervalued both ineducation and beyond?
(18:37):
I mean, there's no doubt about the benefits.
People done so many studies on the benefits of meditation after
me self-care, it's taking care of oneself.
But we we Pooh Pooh it like it'snot that important.
Well, I mean, for me, I can onlyspeak for me.
I've made it a requirement. I made it part of my curriculum,
(18:59):
my syllabus. This is what this is my
classroom. This, this is, I'll be honest,
my students know day one, I'm the alpha and this is my space.
And in this space, this is what we do.
This is what we do and it's on your syllabus.
We will begin every class with breath and affirmation and free
(19:22):
writing. This has to be a habit.
You create a discipline structured moment for young
people because that's one of thethings they're missing.
They're missing structure consistency.
They're missing that. And the teacher has to be
adamant that this is how my classroom will go.
(19:44):
And we will do this regardless of what is happening externally
or internally because we need this in order for the lesson to
begin. We need this.
My students need this moment. These kids are coming in rushed,
pressed, stressed, overwhelmed. That doesn't make for an
(20:05):
effective learning environment that that that does not.
So how do I get you to stop for a moment?
How do I get you to just sit fora moment and close your eyes,
relax your shoulders, put your phone down, close your tablet,
close your eyes, let your tonguerest at the bottom of your
(20:25):
mouth? And let's just breathe big
breath in, exhale the next time you inhale, once you think of
something positive, Lovejoy, peace, understanding, whatever
it is you need. And then on the exhale, get rid
of the garbage. Fear, worry, doubt.
(20:49):
All right, now let's go into free writing.
What's on your mind? If you don't know what's on your
mind, write that down. That's the first line.
I don't know what's on my mind. And then they write for 5
minutes. Don't ask me if you can share.
I don't want to know. That is between you and the
paper. That's between you and spirit.
I don't need to know. We don't share.
(21:10):
We don't share. All right, 5 minutes.
All right, here's your affirmation statement for today.
I am the architect of my life. I build its foundation and I
choose its contents. What does that mean?
Who has control over how your life goes?
We do exactly what is the foundation of your of your
(21:30):
building. And that's where I get into, I
talk about in the book gratitudeversus grievance.
Did you wake up this morning wasthe first thing on your mind
gratitude or grievance? Because whichever 1 you started
with, that's how your whole day is going to go.
So the foundation of your life is either gratitude or
grievance. There's only two emotions.
We come into this world with fear and love and everything
falls under one of those. Pick 1.
(21:54):
So if your foundation is gratitude, then one of the
contents that you are now putting into that building and
and you have to stick with that because again, it's not just for
them, it's also for you, the teacher.
It is the reminder for you, the teacher of your why?
Why am I here 'cause I shouldn'ttell?
Don't get paid well. You're right, even just even
(22:19):
just listening to you go throughthat, it settles the mind and it
settles you so that you are ableto take on more.
It's like that whole filled sponge thing, you know, like,
but you know you. I love the writing component
also. And I know writing essential to
your pedagogy, like, but for women and girls in particular.
(22:41):
And I realize you're writing forall students, but for, for, for
our purposes, we're also specifically leaning towards
women and girls. How does reclaiming voice become
a form of survival? No, I don't like to say
survival, Thriving, thriving. How does it become a form of
thriving? It allows young women in
particular to reconnect itself, 'cause I mean, again, I cannot
(23:04):
tell you how many young women come to this class, These girls,
I I have so many stories of young girls who are just.
I had one young lady last semester, born and raised in
Afghanistan, brought to this country.
Yeah, I tell you how many times that young lady stood before me
crying because of the conflict between her parents and what she
(23:28):
wanted. Now in America, because my class
challenges belief systems in ways that harm the individual,
but when you belong to a culturewhere women are not allowed to
have voice, my class can be quite challenging because I'm
I'm giving you pieces, I'm giving you stories and I'm
giving you activities, opportunities that allow you to
(23:50):
tap into self. And I don't have all the
answers. You have to figure out how do
you now take that into your community that doesn't allow
that or that that looks down upon that.
And you know that young lady, the last time I saw her, because
she disappeared the last two weeks of class, the last thing
she said to me was she gave me ahug and she cried.
(24:12):
She was crying. She said, Miss Pierce, I wish
you were my mother. And it broke me because I know,
oh God, I'm probably gonna cry and think about it because
there's nothing I could do but to encourage her to just keep,
keep finding you, keep looking for you, keep reading, keep
(24:34):
writing, you know, keep present because it's so overwhelming
when these young women, they want so much for their lives,
but the gatekeepers have hidden the key.
And in some cases they have to re redesign a key, their own
unique key to that, to their lives.
And so I also say kind of going back to the breath work, what I
(24:59):
do for students who don't want to engage with that type of
process, I say to them, well, you will respect everyone else
in this class while we do this. If you don't want to participate
in the breath work, then you areto sit there and to remain quiet
until we are done because what we will not have is disrespect
of others choices. You don't have to participate,
(25:20):
but you must remain quiet because we are a collective, we
are a group. And in this class we are rolling
on this train together. So if you don't want to
participate, that is fine. I'm not going to be mad at you.
There's no grade for this. But I would hope that at some
point you would want to try this, right?
And so so for what you begin to see in the writing is that the
(25:41):
young women in particular, but but it's but even the young men,
they begin to express in their writing how this these
activities before the lesson activities have begun to help
them outside of the classroom recenter and gather themselves.
It's beginning to help them finda voice, their voice.
(26:03):
It's beginning to help them shape that voice, getting to
help them see that they have a voice and they can speak on
certain things. And so for young women, what
it's beginning to do is it's beginning to allow them to say,
Oh my God, I do matter. I matter more than I ever
thought. Yes, you do.
(26:24):
You do. And so it it's given, it's given
confidence by the end of 15 weeks.
I mean, again, how do you get 18to 27 students to buy into this
type of activity for 15 weeks? You have to be persistent.
You have to be consistent. You cannot get off the track.
Every time we meet, this is whatwe're doing.
(26:44):
It's on the syllabus. This is what we're doing every
week, every. Time, you know, it's, it's
awesome because you're giving them like it's, it's in some
ways it's like creating focus, right?
Like so that they have focus, but it's also giving them the
space to like open up and breathe and and kind of get
clear on things. Especially, you know, you talked
(27:06):
about that that young woman and so many women here, even growing
up here are, are conditioned to be good, quiet, composed.
Don't be too much, don't speak up, you know, put yourself kind
of in the corner. I'm just all of a sudden thought
of baby in the corner. But what happens when girls are
given space to be fully human? And then connected to and then
(27:29):
connect them to stories where that is demonstrating.
So I talk a lot. I talk a couple times in a book
about how one of the first stories we read is so generous.
Ain't a woman. Now, this piece is powerful, not
just for the young girls, 'causeI'm gonna tell you, most of the
young men in my class gravitate to that speech by the time we're
done. Because what I show them in this
(27:50):
speech is this. How could a woman newly free
from slavery who sued, had the audacity to sue the United
States government to get her child back from her Master, from
the master saying that her childwas sold illegally?
And not only to have the bravadoto find a lawyer and go do that,
but to win. And then to say that God called
(28:12):
me to travel this country to speak against the evils of
gender inequality and race by extension.
And then for her to walk, because ain't no buses, there
ain't no train, ain't none of that in 1851, for her to walk to
Ohio, stand in front of that National Convention Center
(28:33):
building. And this is where I always stop
my students. And I say to them, what must she
have been thinking and saying toherself before she walked into
that building where she knew behind those doors was a group
of white men and white women that could immediately sell her
back into slavery? Because what law was just
instituted one year prior to 1851, one out of maybe 27
(28:58):
students knows the law. And that law is the Fugitive
Slave Law Act, which says you can snatch any colored person
off the street and sell it back into slavery.
So you got this big 6 foot and some change black woman who is
standing in front of this door. And on the other side is all
these white folks who could put her back into slavery.
(29:20):
And she's standing outside that door saying, I'm gonna, I'm
gonna go in here and I'm gonna demand to speak.
What had what kind of belief system did she have about
herself that she felt she could do that?
Who gave her the authority to dothat?
What did we say? What did the kids say?
(29:41):
When you when you position it like that, what did they say?
They attach. It to these affirmation
statements because by then they've had like 4 weeks, 2 * a
week of an affirmation statementand they'll go find one that I
have given them and they'll say whatever it is that whichever
one speaks to them about her. But I have to, I say to what
(30:03):
kind of mindset did this woman have?
And then when she and I tell herthat I said, picture it, the
door, she pushes that door open and everybody turns and in that
doorway is this big 6 foot 200, and some changed black woman who
walks boldly to the front of theroom and says, may I speak?
(30:24):
And these people are they know who she is because her
reputation precedes her and nobody tells her no.
And she stands up there and the first thing she says is I am for
women's rights. Not I'm a slave, former slave,
not I'm a black woman, Negro woman, colored woman, but I am a
(30:47):
woman. And that is claiming of self.
No matter what anybody says about you, that is claiming of
self. And yeah, we go into, you know,
that this was really, you know, transcribed by another woman, a
white woman reporter. That was very rare for the time
for a white woman to be a reporter, to have that as her
(31:08):
job. And we go into these, you know,
I I do touch upon these different translations, but the
fact of the matter is everybody agrees that the opening was I am
a woman's rights. And so I say to them, if she can
do that in 1851, what, How many years ago was that?
And they'll say 160 in here. So this woman who had everything
against her, who risked her lifeto do that, can declare and
(31:33):
stand for who she knows herself to be.
Why can't you do the same thing in 2026?
Why can't you do that? Ain't nobody about to put you in
slavery. There are no, no, no, there are
no, you know, dangerous men waiting out the door to snatch
you and sell you back down to Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama.
(31:55):
What are the responses? I mean because this.
Is like they are intrigued by her and from then on all they
want to do is write by her to the point where I have to tell
my students you can only write about soldier the truth because
they begin to attach her to the to the discovery of their own
voices. Yes, and I must say, you know,
you are a phenomenal storyteller.
(32:17):
So how you approach this and howyou tell a story has got to draw
them into and it, you know, everybody, anybody who's been
lucky enough to have an amazing teacher at some point in their
lives remembers these things, these lessons that you've gotten
and and you know, they're like little tiny highlights in your
(32:38):
life. And I'm sure that you're giving
that to your students through this.
But when, when institutions failstudents, when they don't offer
this because this is, this is like a life changing stuff, like
what you're offering is life changing stuff.
When it's not like that, when the alternative is, you know,
you've got a teacher and and they're not all new teachers,
(32:58):
right? New teachers are everyone.
But some teachers have been they're like, I've been doing it
like this for 40 years. Yeah, and I'm sticking it.
This is the way it is. We come in, it's the blah blah,
blah, blah blah blah blah blah. Who's left to carry the
consequences of this? Unfortunately, and again, as as
I have to tell my students, and I've had former students come
(33:20):
back and say, Miss Pierce, sorry, who's my new English
teacher, She's nothing like you.I said, I already told you,
there ain't nobody else in the world like me.
You ain't gonna find ain't nobody if you are lucky to have
another teacher like me. God bless you.
Because listen, I had some greatteachers.
My education was multicultural. I grew up in Stockton, CA in the
(33:40):
80s and the 90s around gangs andgang violence, gun violence,
drug violence. I speak to that a lot.
I let my students know, baby, I'm from the hood, I'm educated,
but I'm from the hood. And I.
She will come out when necessary, right?
But I had nominal teachers in high school.
I had two in particular, 2 whitefemale teachers in high school,
(34:04):
Missus Sherry Pratt, Rest in Peace, and Missus Sarah
Davenport. Missus Pratt was my English
teacher and Missus Davenport wasmy history teacher.
And Missus Davenport is still alive and I sent her a copy of
my book, which I'm so excited I got to do that.
But they brought what these two women gave to us was permission
to find ourselves in the text. The way that Mrs. Pratt taught
(34:25):
English, I had an AP English, freshman English, the way that
she brought storytelling alive for us.
And the way that Mrs. Davenport,even with the constrictions then
about teaching history, she allowed us to find ourselves in
the text. And then to bring that in the
classroom was like potlucks and bringing in different foods and
stories from each of our different cultures because it
(34:47):
was a multicultural high school.And both of these women marched
for women's rights in the 60s, civil rights and women's rights.
So I had a foundation of teachers who were like, we ain't
taking them back. And then my 7th grade teacher,
Missus Knight, Miss Knight, 8th grade English teacher, teaching
this night. She was also phenomenal.
(35:08):
And then when I went on to college, you know, San Francisco
State is where, well, I started at UC Santa Barbara.
I had teachers from all over theworld.
I had teachers from Africa. I had teachers from Scotland,
from England, and these teacherswere renowned experts in their
craft. So I had one teacher who's a
renowned expert in Frederick Douglass, and yes, I did
challenge him and he loved it. I had questions because I had
(35:30):
never heard of Frederick Douglass.
Unfortunately, I had teachers who I had English, the teachers
that gave us 5 of it because they allowed us to understand
context. And then at San Francisco State,
I had a law professor who reallycemented everything for me and
showed me how to further draw incontext into the instruction.
(35:53):
So the ability to tell stories, this is the teachers investment
on trying to find out who these people were.
This is called live or lived teaching lived history.
Don't teach these people as if they were not real.
You need to give context. Again, what law was going on
(36:13):
that made the situation dangerous for Sojourner?
The Missouri Compromise, the Fugitive Slave Law Act, What was
going on in one of the other pieces I gave them that I talked
about was Aaron Aubrey Kaplan's Black Flag.
I thought I was, which is a non fiction piece.
What was going on in the 80s, excuse me, in the late 90s,
early 2000s with the creation ofat home DNA tests, the census,
(36:38):
What did the census tell us in the early 2000 that the country
was going to be what by 2040? Primarily Brown.
And then all of a sudden you start seeing these changes in
laws and access, why it's a response to that census, that
data saying that this country isgoing to be predominantly brown.
And so you unfortunately, it does fall on the teacher to find
(37:01):
the connections between the text, the lived experiences of
the people that they're teachingand then connect that to the
students. I I really don't like that
students, if I say what happenedto 1865 have them were like the
Civil War ended. OK, Did it really?
(37:22):
You know what? Imagine.
What does it mean? Yeah, you're like.
It's why the context like why did the Emancipation
Proclamation truly free anyone? Y'all better read the language.
It did not. It did not.
But you got to ask yourself, whywould Abraham Lincoln establish
such a such a doctrine? What was he doing?
(37:44):
What's going on? And again, that's why I give,
you know, my book. I talk about the art of writing.
And the fifth one is writers write about what's happening in
their world. So if I'm going to give you this
story from 1851, I need to be able to explain to you what was
happening in 1851 because writers write about what's
(38:05):
happening in the world. That is what's missing an
instruction. Today.
Teachers are rushed and pressed to just push kids out the door.
And it is a you have to fight tosay, no, I'm not pushing these
young people out. I'm going to give them context.
But I'm also going to help me bebetter at my craft and enjoy
(38:27):
what I do. And I'm going to learn a little
bit about these people. And and it makes the whole thing
so much more fulfilling, I wouldimagine, from being a successful
teacher. And then it also gives again the
IT gives the students, the youngpeople, regardless if it's an
English class, A history class, A music class or theater class,
(38:50):
it gives the young, the studentspermission to believe that they
can tell their stories too. So if Sojourner, even though she
was illiterate, if she can stillget up there and tell her story,
why can't I? And I have the gift of reading
and writing. I have that.
Absolutely, it's like that shared bravery and inspiration
(39:13):
to see to see something like that.
But you know, you said to about the educator getting something
out of it also. And let me ask you.
So you're giving a lot, right? You're you're, you're giving a
lot to the kids. You're giving a lot of thought.
Like you said, you're keeping the time.
You're not rushing these kids. So that's a lot on you as the
(39:33):
person leading the classroom. What boundaries have you had to
learn as a woman, as a teacher, between serving others and
disappearing yourself? Oh no, I don't disappear.
No, I learned a long time ago about that.
I think that's one of the thingsmy military background kind of
gave me before I came to the classroom is that I, I had seen
(39:56):
so much in the service that I had made the decision as a young
woman. I mean, I joined at 20 and got
out at 2627. That I was not gonna let anybody
make me hide, but that I also had to learn how to pull back
when it was becoming too overwhelming for me.
So I've learned how to how to doa search inside of me and say
(40:19):
OK, where am I at in this process?
Number one, and again, this is not for everybody, but the first
thing I do before I ever enter my classroom is I have a prayer
and it's always Lord, whatever it is you need me to give these
young people today, use me to dothat.
But I, you know, whatever is forme, let it be.
Let me see it. Let it be for me too.
So it is always my, my thing that I pray and then I do my
(40:42):
breath before I walk into the classroom because I know it's
heavy what I'm bringing. And then how do I support these
young people through this entire15 week, you know, 15 and 10 or
15 week process. And so sometimes I have learned
to be very aware, hyper, not even hyper vigilant, but
(41:03):
vigilant about if this is going,if this is pulling too much on
my students. OK, so I will, I will take a
look around and if I see that it's too it's that my students
are, then I'll say, OK, let's take a breath and I'll go back
and I'll look at my syllabus andI'll be like, you know what?
I'm moving this, I'm moving it. I'm either moving it or I'm
(41:25):
deleting it or I'm extending it.And sometimes I'll even say, you
know what? Today's just the day to have
fun. We're just gonna have some fun.
Yeah. We're not going to do this
today. Or I'm going to figure out a way
to make it fun. I'm going to find a creative
writing opportunity for it because I also do a lot of
creative writing in the class. I have them do activities called
opening lines. And I put that in the book, an
opening line, a closing line to really get them into the to the
(41:47):
head of a writer. Like, here's the opening line,
now you've got to finish the rest of the story.
But they do it as groups. They rarely do it alone.
So I try to make that fun. And then I've learned to let go
of necessarily, you know, let goof hard deadlines.
You know, the only hard deadlineis when they gotta take a final
exam. I'm not doing all that.
So I'll be like, you know, we'regonna spend 40 minutes.
We just may have fun with this. Because they need to see inflex
(42:11):
flexibility. They need to see that everything
is rigid, that life is also about having fun.
Life is about also paying attention to you and what's
going on with you, how you're feeling, and then also paying
attention to others. Looking at the room.
Well, these young people are overwhelmed.
Well, we pull them back today. Today's just going to be a
riding day. Today's going to be riding.
Lamp, it's interesting because you actually have, you know, the
(42:34):
being having come from a military background which is so
regimented and strict. To have that flexibility is
pretty unique that you've managed to kind of take the best
of all of these worlds to createthis classroom where your
students have the structure and they have like the safety of
(42:54):
that structure, but they also have that flexibility.
Yes, that just shows that you'rehuman.
It's important. It's important to do that and
everything education. Well, I do tell my students this
education should be uncomfortable because it needs
to stretch you. It needs to help you expand.
So if you walk into a classroom and you are too comfortable,
you're not learning. And what I mean by that is the,
(43:18):
the assignments, the activities,they should grow you and but,
and so who's to say that creative writing, that fun
writing can't do that like writing always have to be so
rigid. So what we're gonna do ABC
today? And then I said what that now?
No, there's also lessons in creative writing and fun writing
(43:38):
and group activities. There's fun in that.
And that's another way to learn.So I, I just, I try to be open.
Whatever spirit needs me to do in this classroom today, I'm
open to that. I know there are things that I
have to get done, like, you know, the school has
requirements for, you know, certain things that have to be
done at certain points. But why can't I have fun doing
(43:59):
that as well? Why can't that?
Why can't my classroom be the space where students know
they're not only going to come to be challenged intellectually
and in skill, but also will be, it's a space where they can find
themselves, where they can beginto craft voice.
They can understand the power ofstorytelling and where they can
(44:22):
have fun, where they can laugh. Teachers tough, but she's fair.
She's honest. And I'm not a huggy type person,
but there have been moments whenI've seen that students need a
need a hug. And I will, I will stop the
whole class and say, oh, you know what, if you need a hug,
let's let's do it. I'm here because that's
important to be seen. That is the thing.
(44:45):
And I and that's what my students have.
And you go back 20 years, they've all said that to be seen
as everything and not seen in a way that is, that is false.
You know, this false imagery, this false sense of self, you
know, like being an influencer, for example, not that, but to be
(45:07):
seen, someone sees me, I exist. And so to offer that students,
especially our immigrant students, they need that.
They absolutely need that. And I'm here to offer that
because I know what it's like tosit behind the desk and have a
teacher who's been teaching for 40 years and they whip out the
(45:28):
same lecture notes that are now yellowed and frayed from 40
years ago. Oh, yes, I do.
Right. I remember them days.
I said I never want to be that teacher and everyone no.
And but you know, you, you're, you're, it's interesting too,
because you clearly care so muchabout your students.
And then you're funny because you're like, I'm not a hugger.
(45:48):
I'm not but. But it's, but you've got so much
care in you and, and it's, it seems like there's like a lot of
spirituality to that. And you've mentioned praying
before you go into the classroom.
How, for you, has faith shaped your understanding of womanhood,
leadership, and care? It has, it hasn't the grounding,
(46:09):
the grounding, the foundation for who I am and what I do now,
I don't go in the classroom and tell students and pray that's a
no, no, we don't do that. And I always tell them, hey,
what I'm here for. No, no, that may be who I am,
but that's not what I'm here for.
I'm offering you the opportunityto connect to you and these
three practices allow me to do that.
(46:32):
And you can take these things with you wherever you go.
Their final exam question is, what are three things you've
learned about yourself this semester that you will take with
you into both your part, your professional world and your
personal. And that is important for them
to be able to see themselves in the, in the learning process,
how far they've come. For me, faith has always been
(46:54):
and will always be the Center for who I am.
Because what it allows me to do is to see my student, to look at
the syllabus and say, OK, this isn't going to work today or to
bring in others into the classroom because they need to
hear more than just my voice. To find another way to teach
these very different learners, to make this personal, to tell
(47:19):
the story. It allows me to do that.
Faith allows you to see others, to see yourself in others.
And so yes, I, my prayer is thatbefore I walk into the
classroom, it will always be that.
Do the students know? No, they don't have to know.
All they know is that this class, this space, this is where
(47:40):
I'm growing. This teacher is firm, but she's
fair. She's tough, but she's fun.
And so do they. They, they need to see that.
I think part of what's missing, again, as I said earlier in our
conversation, was that young teachers are not taught that.
We're not teaching young teachers how to bring a whole
(48:03):
authentic self into the curriculum, the syllabus, and
thus into the classroom. OK, real quick, if you're
listening and thinking more women should be hearing
conversations like this, the best way to support the show is
just to follow or subscribe wherever you are.
It really does help it reach more people.
Thanks so much. OK, back to the show, when you
(48:24):
were starting out teacher versuswhere you are now, was it, you
know, it was different, I'm surein your classroom you didn't
have the self assuredness, you didn't have all the stuff as a
teacher. That experience that you had, is
it was it very different than how you teach now?
Actually, no, that's awesome. No.
(48:44):
Well, the only thing is that with public school, I knew in
teaching public school, I was not going to be able to go
further with certain things likefaith.
And like faith, I knew I had it for me before I came to the
classroom. But I knew that I couldn't
really get down into who you areas an individual in the high
(49:05):
school, in the in the secondary level because of all the
constrictions around secondary education.
But how, what kind of secondary teacher I was, was it almost
exactly is who I still am. I was very aware of my students,
where they were at, where we needed to be, but I was also
aware of the rules and so, but I, I rules are meant to be
(49:27):
broken. So for.
Example. So for example, I remember I had
a 10th grade class and we were in the textbook was a short
story about Malcolm X. And I was like, Oh my God, yeah,
I'm going to, you know, I'm going to read this piece.
And I had already, you know, talked about who Malcolm X was
and just the, the, the now who he was as a, as an antagonist,
(49:51):
but who he was as an individual.Sorry, growing up without a
father who this person is. And I was like, we're gonna read
this short story. Well, one student, I guess the
parent asked what were they reading?
And the student told the parent.And then the parent called up to
the school and was vehement thatthey didn't want their child to
learn anything about that white man hating Malcolm X.
(50:13):
And I said, well, clearly their education didn't go no further
than 1963 because the Malcolm X that left this earth was not off
a white man hating Malcolm X. And that just really shows you
about how certain characters aretaught in class.
And so my my direct supervisor, she was like, well, you know,
(50:35):
Miss Pierce, you can't teach that short story.
I said, OK, that's fine, I'll goanother way.
I'll teach Marcus Garvey. And I told Marcus Garvey because
nobody know who Marcus Garvey is.
They don't know that you wouldn't have a Malcolm X if
there hadn't been a Marcus Garvey.
(50:56):
And so, and I know you're listening to who's Marcus
Garvey. Well, I'm not going to go in
today. Y'all have to go find out who
Marcus Garvey is. But know that he, you know, was
a Jamaican born public speaker who came to America because he,
you know, wanted to end colorism.
He wanted black people of all colors to use to feel a sense of
pride in who they were. And he was just basically
(51:18):
continuing the conversation about if America continues to
treat black people in this particular way, should we leave?
Right. But more than anything, he he
gave to black America this senseof pride in being I'm black and
I'm proud. So he precedes Malcolm X, he
(51:38):
precedes the Nation of Islam, heprecedes James Brown.
I'm black and I'm proud. He precedes the Black Arts
movement in this country. But ain't nobody teaching him
because OK, well, I won't get inthere because publicly.
School gotcha. My specialty is African American
literature. You don't want me.
We won't do that. But just know that that was my
(52:00):
way around that because I'm like, you can't, you can't
disregard such a pivotal moment in American history and in
American literature. You know, Alex Haley wrote
Malcolm X's autobiography. You, you can't dismiss that
because you only got 1/2 of the story.
And that's my whole goal when I go into the classroom.
We will not do half of the story.
(52:22):
This is why context is so important.
Those people didn't want Harry, excuse me, Sojin, or to speak,
not only because they didn't seeher as a woman, but because the
woman is the suffragist did not want to confuse women's rights
with slavery, right, with the ending of slavery.
(52:42):
And so a lot of young people don't know that because that's
not taught. These contexts are not taught.
So I have always been that kind of teacher that's going to find
another way to teach this in a way that helps these young
people find their way and see their voice and see that who
they are, who they come from is just as beautiful as anybody
(53:02):
else. Well, and I think that the fact
that you have so much context around your own life too.
There's so much and I wanted to ask you about that too.
I know we don't have all day, but I, I'm going to keep you as
long as I have. But you create work across many
spaces. So in addition to your expertise
as a, as a teacher, you, you've written an affirmations journal.
(53:23):
Repeat after me, Sis, you're writing and teaching, obviously
your bakery. You host the podcast Beyond the
Plate RV and you've talked aboutbringing all of that under what
you call the Nourishment Collective.
Yes. Could you tell me a little bit
about that? Well, for a long time I did.
I struggled with these. What a lot of young people
struggle with and and you know, need help on finding their way
(53:46):
through is what happens when youhave multiple pieces of you that
likes to do different things. The world, this world is so
pressed to make a person one thing, and I just refuse.
And so I I just. Love you, I love you you're
like, I just won't do it I. Won't do it because we come here
with so many wonderful gifts. It's just that one gift is the
(54:08):
umbrella for them all. And it's the trick is
recognizing what that one umbrella is.
And for me, and I've, I've said this for years, the umbrella is
education. And underneath that umbrella is
teaching, writing and speaking. And so when I started looking
at, well, who am I as a Baker? Well, baking, I opened up the
bakery because I was leaving teaching, because I was burnt
(54:30):
out. I was tired.
And I knew that baking made me feel good.
It calmed me down. It was another way for me to
express my love and sincerity for being here for families, for
people, for my own story, my family's food story.
And it's just an extension, a further extension of me.
I'm a foodie person. I, of course, I love food, but I
(54:50):
love the story of, of food and particularly soul food and just
how our, how our palates are often shaped by our culture, our
cultural experiences with food and how that also shapes our
mindset about food. And so I'm a writer, that's what
I do. And I just feel like writers
should should try different genres.
(55:13):
And so being a playwright is first and foremost who I am.
I love theater and and theater has informed my ability to tell
stories in fiction and in nonfiction.
I just feel like writers should try those different modes or
mediums to figure out where theycan grow the most, but also to
(55:34):
challenge them, right. So the nourishment collective I
came down to, what spirit gave me was that do not be ashamed of
these different pieces of you because no matter where someone
finds you, Rebecca, they find you.
And it is that wherever that is,that is what that person needed
at the moment. So if they find me on my foodie
(55:56):
podcast, Beyond the Plate RBA, this is where they find me.
And then that will might bring them to Rebecca, the nonfiction
writer with the lemonade mindsetover on Sub Stack, or they might
find my bakery. But wherever they find me, they
have found me. And so I nourish in all of those
platforms. I'm nourishing you in the
(56:16):
bakery, I'm nourishing you on the foodie podcast.
I'm nourishing you in our onlinebookstore in my written text.
That's who I, who I am. I'm a nourish, A nourisher.
I'm, I think I described myself at the end of last semester as I
am a gardener. I plant seeds.
And so wherever you go, you'll find my seed.
That's where I'm at. And so that's kind of how I came
(56:38):
up with the nourishment and kindof wrapping all these different
pieces of me because I all of itis storytelling.
All of it is storytelling. We tell our story through what
we put on our plate. We tell our story through what
we listen to and what we read. We tell our story and how we
position words on the page. We tell our story and how we
(57:00):
show up. And that's, that's my, you know,
my whole framing for the nourishment collective.
Wherever you find me, you have found me.
You have found nourishment. I love this and I love that
there are so many ways to find you in so many different ways
that you do nourish. And and that leads me to my last
question for you, which is thereare women listening who are
(57:20):
exhausted from holding everyone else together and they and
nourishing others. What do you want them to hear
today? Yeah.
No, you come first again. I don't.
I don't step into the. I have to.
I'm really serious about this and I've been writing about this
for a long time. This is why I started the
Lemonade mindset and why I started affirmations for myself.
(57:44):
I can't care for others if I don't care for the greatest love
of my life 1st and that is me. And so if it's going to empty my
well, then I can't do it. If if someone says they love you
but they keep doing the thing that hurts you and you and you
keep telling them to stop, they keep doing it.
That's not love. And so you have to learn how to
(58:06):
let them go. So my memoir that I wrote called
I love me more. That was my after leaving my,
you know, my tumultuous, violentmarriage, I learned from that
experience that I can't give my light to other people.
That light belongs to me. And it's my job to make sure
that it continues to shine. And so if it's going to rob me
(58:27):
of my health, which I have learned the hard way about being
robbed of my health because I gave too much to every to
everything, if it's going to robme of my house, if it's going to
rob me of my voice, if it's going to try to steal my joy,
then I don't want it. So I work on me before I can
give anything to anyone else. And that that is so important.
(58:50):
I know the word no, it's a sentence and I don't have to
explain it. And sometimes, you know, but
sometimes even I struggle with explaining because people be
like, why? And I just learned how to tell
people because I said no. Yes, it is.
Yes. Right.
So, but I've had to learn also to not be like, Oh my God,
they're gonna hate me. I don't care.
(59:12):
And and it's, it's almost the same.
And I don't wanna say I don't care because even caring is an
emotion. But what I say is this, you
know, particularly for my students, I'm not here to be
your friend. I have a job to do and I'm going
to do my job. But if by the end of this we
become friends and this is the best thing ever, but I am not
your friend at this moment. So you will call me Professor
(59:35):
Pierce or you will call me Doctor Pierce, or you will call
me Miss Rebecca or you will callme Miss Pierce.
But what you will not do is callme by my first name because we
are not on the same level. And that's not to be
disrespectful, but that's to teach you to understand the
journey that I have been to beenthrough to find me.
And you have to respect that journey.
You ain't got to like it, but you got to respect it.
(59:55):
And so at some point, unless youwant to be put in the ground at
a young age. Whether it's your children, your
mate, or your your coworkers, you're going to have to learn
how to put you first. If it does not feed your soul,
if it does not grow you and expand you, if it does not align
(01:00:16):
with who you know yourself to beor who you want to be, then the
answer is no. Stop trying to be seen in the
negative way. Oh my gosh, she does everything.
Look at her. Because baby, when you die,
what's going to go on your tombstone the day you were born
and the day you died? Not she made the best cookies on
the planet. That ain't going like your king
stuff. This this, by the way, is
(01:00:40):
totally reminding me of when we first hopped on the phone.
I'm like, I just cut my son a bagel.
Yes, that's going to go in between.
She cut the best bagels. She.
Cut the best bagels. Yeah, no, I'm not doing that.
And, and it's just really getting to that moment when you,
when you realize, you know, you have a choice and how you want
to live your life, gratitude or grievance.
(01:01:03):
How are you stepping into the classroom?
Because I had a lot of teachers emailing me about, Oh my God, I
hate going, I'm dragging going back to work and like, why?
That's the mindset. That's all you.
That is all you. You could change that instantly.
It doesn't matter what them children are doing.
When you walk to that classroom,that's your classroom.
The attitude you carry into thatclassroom dictates how that
(01:01:23):
classroom is going to go. So if you are learning how to
quiet yourself, heal yourself, begin that healing process,
figure out what works for you, what's growing you, what's
stifling you, what's hindering you.
Then you will look at not returning to to the classroom as
Ugg, but as we, but returning tothe classroom as this is my
(01:01:46):
space, this is me. This is where I shine, this is
where I grow and I have an opportunity to give that to
someone else. Don't let them people upset you,
Rock You. Oh, no, ma'am, because at the
end of the day, once again, the birth date and the date date you
died. No, ma'am.
No, I don't play that. Not no more, no.
(01:02:08):
Rebecca, you are awesome. I am so grateful that you were
here. I feel like there's so many
takeaways and I love by the way,I keep talking and not letting
you go, but how you say gratitude versus grievance
because so many people are like gratitude, gratitude, gratitude.
And I've actually like said before in a gratitude class once
I was like, I feel like, I'm so doing this like without
(01:02:29):
thinking, it's not feeling like deep gratitude.
I keep writing my coffee like, but when you look at it versus
gratitude versus grievance, it'sthe whole, my, it's your whole
shift. It's how you're it's you can see
what you don't want. Exactly.
And again, it's just again, as I, as I press into my students,
(01:02:54):
as soon as those eyes open, you've got to start training
your brain to go immediately to gratitude.
Thank you. And and if you believe in God or
not, whether it's thank you, Godor just thank you.
Because the truth of the matter is you really had no say as to
whether or not your heart wantedto keep beating or if your lungs
(01:03:17):
wanted to keep processing air. You have no control over that.
Your body works autonomously, right?
Involuntarily mean you don't getto control that.
The only thing you can control is how you think as soon as your
eyes open. Oh, that's so good.
Thank you so much. You are awesome.
Thank you so much for being heretoday.
I can't thank you enough. And I'm going to have all the
(01:03:39):
information you we talked about,including a link to Marcus
Garvey in the show notes. Please do that.
I will absolutely do that. Absolutely.
Thank you so much you're. Welcome.
Thank you so much for having me and have a great day.
You too. I really appreciated this
conversation with Rebecca, especially the way she
challenged some of the assumptions we make so quickly
(01:03:59):
about kids and behavior, and howthose assumptions often say more
about what we've been taught to expect than what's actually
going on. That shift alone can change
everything, and next week we're taking that idea of rethinking
what's not working and turning it into something else entirely
new. We're talking about what happens
when frustration isn't somethingto push through, but something
(01:04:20):
to pay attention to with the oneand only Jess Eckstrom.
In the meantime, if this episodeopened your eyes like it opened
mine, send it to a friend. That's how these conversations
keep going. Thanks for joining us.
See you next time on ROAR.
Popular Podcasts
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com