October 22, 2025 • 54 mins
Kel’s back from Italy, jet lagged and pasta-happy, and we get into the real guts of confidence. We talk travel as a reset, ditching the Apple Watch, eating the damn spaghetti, and remembering how good life feels when you stop performing and just live it. Kel shares how she went from second-guessing herself to using her voice at work, online, and in life. We get honest about external validation, doing it scared, and why the action often has to arrive before the feeling. It’s warm, human, a bit cheeky, and a solid reminder that confidence is less sparkle, more reps.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm tiff.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
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(00:33):
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Speaker 2 (00:48):
Dot au.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Kel Smith. If your feet touched even touched the ground
yet since you've touched down back in Australia.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Look, it took about a week. The jet lag was
just insane. Like people say, you know, it takes a
little bit, particularly on the way home, but it just wasn't.
We weren't sleeping for I think about five days, and
I brought back malatonin since you can't buy it here,
and it works really well, but then it's like waking
(01:21):
up at two three four the day before I went
back to work. I think I had about two hours sleep,
but yeah, past maybe three days back to normal.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
All right, you bet tell everyone where you've been. They
might think you've just ducked over to Tazzy for a
quick trip. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Well the jet lag across, you know, across the back straight.
So I was in Italy for just under three weeks
for a friend's birthday, which was incredible, absolutely incredible. First
time there, no third time, luckily Italy. It's quite incredible.
You know, the biggest thing that I found was that
(02:00):
you're walking around everywhere and it's just the history of
the place, so you'll go and see things here and
the way, Like, we went to this thing called the Catacombs,
which is where like popes are buried and there's bones
and it's it was quite creepy, but I'm walking through
(02:21):
going that's right.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
This is real. It's not a recreation.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
It's not kind of what people assume it looked like
or think it looked like.
Speaker 5 (02:30):
This is actually real.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
And that was quite mind blowing that it was that old,
like it dated back to I think they said the
earliest known instance of someone being in there was three
hundred and thirteen.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Yeah, it's funny when I was going to India. We
had a couple of days after coming back from the
Himalayas back into Delhi before we flew back to Australia,
and my friend and II Shannon, we were like, we're
going to go down to the.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Taj It's quite like it's it.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
I can't remember how many hours it took to drive
there now, but anyway, it was a massive drive and
I'm like, oh, we've got a couple of days.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
It's a building, like.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
I'm not I don't know, I'm not done from that
into it for that whole drive down. Anyway, we did.
We drove down there and we spent those two days
seeing a range of monuments, but the Taj Mahal I
just remember. I can remember, you know when you remember
these moments vividly. I remember standing and looking at it,
(03:36):
and I cannot describe the emotions.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
It was like the vision.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
It was in the morning was already daylight, but it
was quite early, but it was like this pastel painting.
I was like, this doesn't even look real. And the
whole experience of being there and experiencing that was just
une and I just isn't it funny? I didn't expect
(04:03):
that I will not like I'm I wouldn't say I'm
someone that's into monuments or architecture or anything.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
But wow, we kind of like indexts. I traveled with
my partner and then a whole group of friends, but
it was almost like a celebrity country, if that makes sense.
So it's all of these things that you've seen in
photos or on TV or on videos since you were
a kid. So like the Colisseum, or like the Eiffel Tower,
(04:29):
things like that I remember seeing. Yeah, I was lucky
enough to see the Eiffel Tower, and the first time
I saw it, I just I just said this huge
smile on my face. I was like, Wow, that's it.
That's you know, I've been looking at that. It's such
a it's like it's an icon of a landscape, if
that makes sense. So yeah, I totally get it. It's
(04:50):
it's quite incredible to see those things in person.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
What do you get out of travel when you that
you forget, Like when you go back there, have you
forgotten that you get back and you're like, oh this,
Oh I.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
Just it felt quite free.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
So I think we've discussed this before, but I was
free ranging the whole time, so no no Apple Watch data, no.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Free and no data deliberation.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Before you left, it was I was thinking should I
shouldn't I?
Speaker 5 (05:20):
Like, am I actually going to be working out? Will I?
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Will I limit how much pastor I have every day?
Absolutely not?
Speaker 5 (05:29):
And how much how.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Much does closing those rings or seeing that data? How
much does that impact my mindset my mental health really,
because I was having days here before that going well,
I haven't hit my ten thousand steps or my you know,
self imposed number of calories for the day.
Speaker 5 (05:48):
So it's seven o'clock.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
At night and well, I, you know, better keep going
so that I close those rings. So yeah, being in
a different place and not having that was very liberating,
I think. And just eating all the pasture as well.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
If it's not tracked, it doesn't.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
Count exactly right, And you know what they say, the
food's different there.
Speaker 5 (06:18):
It absolutely is.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Like I've heard of people who are siliac that can
go over there and eat the pasta because the ingredients
are so different there far. I think they're far more pure,
so there's not as many you know, fake ingredients bulking
it up. So therefore people who would normally be intolerant
(06:40):
can actually quite literally stomach the food.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Actually, David Gillespie on the Project last week was talking
about the Motherfucker Jean and processing FOL eight and how
a lot of people that think they're gluten free or
that they have better results going gluten free, it can
often be because they have a genetic variant of the
(07:07):
motherfucker gene and they cannot And FOL eight is put
it into all baked goods, all bread in Australia, so
if you can't process that, And I found that really
interesting because I have one variant of that gene, so
I'm a little bit sluggish and I don't eat a
lot of bread, so it probably doesn't doesn't really apply
(07:28):
to me, but I did think, oh that's interesting.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
And it's also too like maybe it's just because it
wasn't discovered yet, but I remember growing up like I
wouldn't hear of anyone, like in primary school that had
a gluten intolerance or nut allergy even And now it's everywhere.
And is it because you know, I mean there's obviously
studies on this. Is it because of you know, what's
going into the food, or is it just there's more
(07:54):
studies on it? And it's more aware. But yeah, so
that that was absolutely freeing overseas.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Yeah, I think it makes me think about we think
that everything we are doing is right, and we don't
give ourselves the opportunity to step out and just reflect. Like,
so we go, all right, well, I wear this watch
and I'm doing ten thousand steps a day, and I
do all my workouts and I close all the rings
(08:23):
and that's what I have to do because that's what
I'm tracking, and that's and we've chosen to do that.
So we already have a bias against that is what
I need to do. And amongst all of that obsessively
watching that data, our body screaming out to us, Hey,
you know what I need to do. I need you
to fucking switch off. That's what I need you to do.
I need you to stop the mental processing that's happening,
(08:47):
which is energy and stress and cortisol that's just coming
from even just the awareness of doing all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
And so you go, you go.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
To another country and you have this amazing time, you
present all of the time, you eat all the pastor
in the world, and you fucking enjoy it, and your
body is like able to let go and just go oh,
I can actually hit a baseline now and chill out.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
That's exactly what it was. And also like being removed
from your everyday life, which is such a luxury, Like
you're not worried about got to do the washing, got
to do the dishes, the floor needs vacuuming. You know,
cats just shit on the floor and I need to
clean that before I jump onto a podcast. And so
(09:31):
you do have that extra space in your mind, I think.
And it's very interesting what you just said about holding
yourself back. And so we were sat in a cafe
this one day and we thought, let's just just stop
and have a drink. And most places are fairly opposed
to that, but this place was pretty cool. I'm sitting
there like people watching. It was the most incredible thing
(09:52):
for people watching because not only are you in a
different country, but so are thousands of other people. So
it's his huge mix of different cultures, which is just
it's such a great conversation starter. You can sit down
and someone might you know, look at you and go,
so where are you from? And then suddenly you've got
this conversation that goes on for three hours with you know,
(10:12):
people that you've never met.
Speaker 5 (10:13):
Before really cool.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
So we sat down this day and this woman comes
and she would have been I'm going to say maybe
early seventies, and she was in this really lovely, bright
yellow dress and she's pulling her chair out and she
looks at the waitress and she just says, cut your
peppi and a beer. She said it, you know, with
more accent than that. And I thought, that's she knows
(10:37):
what she wants, this lady. And she sits down and
she had this little backpack that said Rome on it
and a little wallet that said Rome on it. I'm like, oh,
she must be you know, she's clearly a tourist. And
her food comes and she pulls out her phone and
she starts doing a food review and so she's, you know,
she's going over the food like this, and then she's
(10:58):
doing the beer and then she goes up to the
name of the restaurant and she's filming for it. Must
have been a blog. It must have been on Instagram.
I would love to find her. I'm not sure how,
but I thought how amazing that, And maybe it was
my bias. I'm looking at her, going, you don't seem
like the kind of person, particularly of the age that
(11:20):
would be doing something like that, and I had to
really check myself on, like, well, why do I think
that she's not the type of person? And then I thought,
I want to be her when I grow up, because
that's really cool, just to know what you want before
you even sit down, and then be so passionate and
enjoy it so much that you want to share it
with people. I thought it was just it was one
(11:40):
of the highlights, actually, just this quiet moment of watching her.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
We're going to talk today about confidence, and well, what
are we going to talk about?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
You tell me I made you.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
Pick you did? And I thought, probably for me.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
Over the past year, it's been a really big journey
of building confidence. And what started out initially as talking
to you offline for coaching then has turned into me
invading both yours and Craig's podcasts. And I think in
a few of the initial episodes, I was just banging
(12:19):
on about you know, well I'm lacking confidence, and you know,
I need to do this and I need to do that.
And I thought, the more I keep talking about that,
the more that's the story I keep telling myself, and
the more it stays true. And then I started to get,
you know, really good feedback about being in these episodes,
(12:40):
and I was like, Okay, well, these are people that
I don't even know, so they don't have to say
anything nice. So maybe there's some truth to it, and
maybe I can start believing and then start stepping into
that a bit more and a bit more and a
bit more. And I thought, potentially that's of interest to
other people who are in the same situation of really
(13:03):
wanting to give something a go, but what they keep
telling themselves is holding them back. So yep, maybe that's
something to unpack and just the idea of chipping away
at it and just giving it a go. And you know,
I remember in our first episode together, I was talking
about how I was really inspired by the idea of
(13:26):
even if you are scared to do something, just do
it anyway and do it scared. And that's probably what
this whole year has.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Been for me.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Just just do it anyway, even if it is scary,
and so far it's turning out pretty well.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Always does, Mate, always does. What is what's your definition
of confidence? So when you say I want to be
more confident, what do you mean? What does that look
and feel like?
Speaker 5 (13:57):
Not having?
Speaker 4 (13:59):
Not having any apprehension about doing something that I want
to do, so whether it's writing, whether it's putting photos up, videos,
things like that, just not having the apprehension of what
if someone doesn't like it? Well, of course people won't
like it, not it's what I'm doing, isn't for everyone,
(14:19):
and reframing that even if it's just for me, that's enough.
And I think that's kind of been the real change
that accepting that if I'm happy with it, then that's okay,
that's enough for me.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
I've been having this thought tangent recently a lot where
I've just been thinking about how as humans and I'm
definitely not excluded in this, but I think it's universal.
We care so much about what people think. What do
they think of me? What do they say about me?
(15:01):
What will they say? What will they think? But we
never maybe everyone else does. Maybe it's just not me,
but we never go do they care about me?
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Like? What does Kelly think about me? But does she
care about me?
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Like?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Because that matters more?
Speaker 3 (15:19):
What do we care about if someone so people? Because
think about the people that are in our world that
we don't that we're not close enough to care, so
we don't care about them, not because we dislike them,
we just.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Don't care.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
We're not close, we're not involved with them. We have
thoughts about them, and so when we see something, we
might have an opinion and that might not be an
opinion they want to hear. Should they give a toss?
Speaker 4 (15:47):
Well, this is the thing, right, And it was also
I had this moment of clarity around whose opinion do
I actually value? And I was putting a lot of
pressure and a lot of stock into the opinions of
people who and it was completely my own fault, like, oh, well,
(16:08):
what if that person thinks something bad and you know,
they've previously said something that I didn't like or I
didn't agree with, or something that made me feel quite
defensive or it was a bit of a put down.
And then I thought, well, how much does that person
actually matter to me? Are they a friend? Are they
just somebody who's in my kind of sphere? And then
(16:29):
I thought, who's within my world that I actually I
do value their opinion and I do think that they're
doing some good, or I do think that they're quite inspiring,
and I want to spend time with them. And that
was a huge shift in terms of how I'm putting
myself out there. And I remember one day at work,
(16:53):
I was showing a colleague a snippet of an episode
that you and I had done, and I was feeling
quite cocky and I'm like, check out, look at me.
And she listened to it and she goes, why aren't
you bringing this to work? Why don't I get this
version of you rather than the shit that I have
to deal with? Yeah? Yeah, And I was like, oh wow,
(17:20):
that's that was really eye opening. And it's something that
I keep going back to because another thing that I've
been really working on is, you know, if I can
have these really incredible conversations with you, with Craig, why
can't I keep having those conversations with other people? You know,
like we're all just normal people. I'm surrounding myself with
(17:43):
people who are interested in the same things, So why
can't I keep having these conversations just in my day
to day? And to me, that comes down to being
kind of more in alignment. And again, it's kind of
coming back to stop talking about the lack and start
stepping into where I really want to be.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
And now it.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
Feels like there's been this shift around how I'm presenting
how I conduct myself, how.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
I want to be.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
I hope I'm explaining that right, But it's definitely been
a big shift and kind of and it's also been
there's been a few key people that have said, you're
doing really well, keep going, and that's been a huge
confidence boost, I would say, or like a huge push
in the right direction. To know that it's kind of
it's noticed makes me think.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
About like the idea of so as you was saying that,
and I was thinking about when when I first had
doctor Bill for a couple of episodes, who then became
my psychotherapist, because essentially that's what he kept bloody well
doing to our podcast was a psycho therapy session. So
I was like, hey, may I step into your office?
(19:01):
And the very first session, I said to him, so
I'm because he's in Perth, so we were still over zoom.
I said, do we I'm going I'm going to pretend
that this is a podcast because my ability to stay
deeply introspective and present and in like I just show
(19:22):
up in a way that's really beneficial and honest and
but open. And I found that in and it happened
for a little bit where I would shut down, I
would grow down, right. So I think what I've learned
from that is it's not that we have this idea
(19:46):
of our identity. I am, I am Kel, and I
am not confident. I am Kel, and I get anxiety
and I'm not good enough at work, so I'm not
I've got it. So we play this role. But what
is actually I think what's beneficial is being able to
step out and go what part of me, what part
of me shows up in different places, and what might
(20:10):
it be about that environment that makes that part of
me show up? Or if something shifts in me and
I am start showing up differently and I can notice that,
what might it be about the interaction the space and
the environment that is making me show up that way?
Speaker 4 (20:29):
In terms of the podcast, for instance, and how I'm
taking that back into my everyday life. It's absolutely been
the fact that I've been given space to use my voice,
and that has been a huge game changer for me
because I've always been very quiet, very reserved, very introverted.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
And look I still am.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
I was in this big team meeting the other day
and I could feel physically that I was kind of
withdrawing because it was there was like twenty five people
in the room. I know them all and they're all lovely,
but it was twenty five people in the room, and
holy shit, I can't say anything to twenty five people
because I don't use my voice. So using that in
(21:13):
a way where I'm being told you asked really good questions,
you speak really well. I've never been told that before
in my life. And so, as I say, it's been
those kind of little nudges of you're doing well at
this that have kind of prompted me to go, if
I'm doing well in this space, why can't I take
it somewhere else? And so I'm trying that and that's
(21:36):
been the biggest change.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Why do you think you got the feedback about those questions,
about the way you ask questions? What from the outside
looking in? What do you see? Why do you think
people said that?
Speaker 5 (21:49):
I'm really not sure.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
However, I listened to a webinar a few days ago,
and I noticed that the person asking the questions wasn't
com it, and so that made me kind of go, Okay, yeah,
I can speak, and there was a huge difference there. Yeah,
So I think I noticed on the Facebook page, for instance,
(22:12):
there was people commenting saying your questions are really good
and they sound so thoughtful. And that was the first
time that I'd had any kind of feedback that was external,
Like there were these people who I have no idea
who they are, and again like they they don't have
(22:33):
to say anything nice, and they were. And I was like, oh,
this is this is kind of cool, this is you
know maybe because for a long time it was still nah,
it's not true. People are just you know, people who
know me are just being nice because they know me
and they know that I lack confidence in these areas.
But then even so, I bought my nan an Alexa
(22:54):
speaker so that she can listen to the episodes and
I've written down you know, you need to ask for
this number and all this kind of stuff. And so
she thinks she's got this great relationship with Alexa. Now
she's like, I just tell her what to do and
she listens, and if she doesn't listen, well, I give
her a hard time.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
And I'm like, okay, how's that going.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
And I was there a few weeks ago and she said, so,
I've listened to a few of your podcasts and I went, yep.
She goes, you're hiding your true self from me, and
I went, what do you mean?
Speaker 5 (23:27):
And she goes, you're.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Incredible and I went thanks, and she goes, no, no,
she goes, I'm not giving you any bullshit.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
This is how she talks to me. I'm not giving
you any bullshit.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
You're really good and when you come and see me,
you just act like you're my little granddaughter. And she goes,
you're really intelligent, and she goes, look, I always I
knew that, but she said it's more than what I thought,
and I just went okay. So that's the second person
that's telling me that I should be bringing what I'm
(24:01):
doing here into everything else. And that is you know,
should you need people to tell you?
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Maybe?
Speaker 5 (24:11):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
Does it help for me? Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (24:14):
So I think you do need people to tell you
because you can't. We can't know. It's really hard to
get objective about what we're in the middle of. Yeah, like,
how do we know what we're like? We don't get
We have to get for we have to tell people
when they're good at things and why you know. I
remember when I used to tell Harps I liked to
(24:36):
particular episode or a thing or whatever. He would always
say what is it about that you would like? And
at first I was like, well, all right, but it
was like, oh, that's really bad I do that. Now
I'm like, okay, what do you like about it? Because
are you like cool? If you're just saying you like
it because you want to interact with me, that might
be the case, but if not, I'd like to know
what specifically you enjoyed about that so that I can
(24:59):
be aware of what works well and maybe ensuring I
do that all the time. But I think with you,
it is your interested and you listen. So I was
talking about this with a friend of mine, a speaker
this morning. We're having a chat and so just had
(25:20):
Bruce Perry on the show for the second time. He's
on My Favorite Girls. I love the hell out of him,
and at the end of the episode he said, thanks,
you're a really good listener. It's not often that you
get to have a conversation with someone who really listens.
People come on with their questions and there's probably been
(25:41):
in at least four where I'm just starstruck, like I'll
be goodness, and they've said feedback like that at the end.
That holds so much weight because I know they are
on huge podcasts and lots of them, and they don't
have to say that, And so I think it's not
(26:04):
about sometimes it's not about what you know. It's about
it's about these innate kind of types of skill sets
or intelligences that aren't typical, so we don't recognize them.
Nobody recognizes someone's ability to just listen and be comfortable
listening and being themselves without coming Most people come in
(26:27):
and go, what do I know? How do I might
make myself sound like I know stuff? And how do
I sound? And we put on a mask to ask
that question. You don't do that, I hope not.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
I think also to how it kind of started was
I did have all of these questions and it was
almost just very I was just trying my luck. In
all honesty, I'm like, well, if I can get on
there and I can ask these questions that I want
the answers to, then potentially like I'm not the only one.
And given the popularity of your show, Craigs, I think
(27:07):
self improvement in general and mental health, fitness, everything combined
that we're all talking about, so many people are interested
in it, and I'd been listening to so many different
podcasts and reading so many different things that I could
see that there was all of these questions that kept
(27:27):
coming up quite consistently, and I thought, well, yeah, absolutely,
I'm not the only one that's interested in this. But
it's also I think having the respect of being given
the platform and your time that yeah, I just sit
and listen and just take it all in because I
know that there's so many other people that would go
(27:48):
get out of the way. I want that chair, and
so it's definitely making the most of it.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
What's changed about what you think or feel or believe
about confidence or has anything changed?
Speaker 4 (28:04):
I don't feel as scared, so I think for a
very long time. I remember back in high school, I
would write, and you know, i'd feel these notebooks full
of short stories, and I'd pass them around to all
my friends and they'd read them, and I never had
any apprehension. And maybe it was just because I had
(28:30):
a belief that I mean, I was the only one
that was actually doing that, So it was kind of like, well,
I'm the only one people appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
And I thought, how do I get that back?
Speaker 4 (28:39):
Like how do I get back to just having that
self belief and putting my stuff out there so that
people can give me feedback, because how will I learn
anything about it?
Speaker 5 (28:50):
How will I grow?
Speaker 4 (28:51):
And so that's what I've been doing. But I know
that somewhere along the way between you know, high school
and now, there was a huge knock in confidence. I
don't know when, but it certainly did happen. But underlying
that was still always this not not a belief, but
always a feeling of wanting to do more. And I
(29:13):
just didn't know how because it's that that story that
we tell of Okay, well I could do that, but
there's there's so many other people doing it, and how
will I stand out and how will mine be any different?
Speaker 5 (29:28):
And then it's.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Somehow along the way it just kind of changed to
it's not a matter of competing. It's not a matter
of trying to stand out against anyone. It's just fulfilling
that need for myself. And I think that's been the
biggest thing. And instead of I've noticed too, there's been
a shift in kind of being really kind of hesitant
and going, oh, I've done I've done a podcast to
(29:52):
be really cool if you could listen to it. And
now it's just like I don't even need to tell anyone.
They're they're saying to me, have you done another one yet?
And it's nice. It's been this real flip and it's
just something that has become part of what I really
enjoyed doing. Like I don't know if that makes any sense,
but it just it's always felt like there was something
(30:15):
within me that wanted to create and share that, and
I feel like there's more over a fire for that
at the moment.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Is confidence to you, is confidence of feeling or action
or a trait? How do you define it?
Speaker 4 (30:34):
I think it's a feeling and an action. So the
action is the doing because for such a long time
it was stopping me from the doing, because it was
even down to like posting a photo on Instagram, like
I would spend ages, you know, looking for you know that,
I'd plan something and go, I want to share that.
I think that's kind of cool, and you know, coming
(30:56):
up with the right caption and all this kind of
stuff and then just going, oh cares delete, Okay, well
I've just wasted all this time. And then it was
through listening to other things where it was like, your
social media is just that it's yours. It's not for
anyone else, it's yours. And I think listening to those
(31:18):
messages quite consistently has been like, well, okay, yeah, this
is for me. It's if someone else likes it, amazing,
thank you, but this is for me. And bringing it
back to that, so the feeling of I guess ownership
over it and not in my mind giving other people
(31:40):
the power to say yay.
Speaker 5 (31:44):
Orn.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
I know when I for me, when I share thoughts
and ideas and stuff and bullshit on my socials, often
think about the fact that people read it. I'm like,
I wonder if they understand that most the time I'm
writing to me, for me, from me, you know. It's
like when I write a thought or a lesson or
(32:09):
a inside of any sort, it's usually something I've gone through,
I'm going through, or I'm reflecting on that's directly to me,
or I'm reminding myself, Like especially those hard hitting ones.
It's like for your fucking sucks up there, your baby,
It's like, don't do you know, like, because I'm because
we get up and we fall down, and we get
(32:30):
up and we fall down and we learn and we
know and then we fail again. And so that's always
what I'm sharing and sometimes people will comment and I'll think,
I'm actually writing that too. Actually, right, it's actually to me,
you know, I'm in the middle of it.
Speaker 5 (32:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (32:47):
Absolutely, That's something else that I'm really interested in as well, though, right,
Like people will say I failed at that, And it's
how much do you actually fail at something if you
still can keep going?
Speaker 5 (33:00):
Like if.
Speaker 4 (33:02):
If something doesn't work out the way that you want
it to and you don't give it another crack, well
maybe that could be deemed a failure because it's stopped
you in your tracks. But if something doesn't work out
the way that you wanted it to and you still
keep going, and then the outcome changes, like is it
is it a learning or is it still a failure?
Speaker 3 (33:22):
What's more important to you the feeling of confidence or
the action of doing it? Anyway, Oh, I think both.
I think I'm very outcomes driven, like very visually outcomes driven,
So I can have the feeling of being confident has
(33:42):
been there probably a bit longer than the action. So
in doing these.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Episodes, I was kind of like, Okay, well it was
almost like a kind of I can feel it building,
I can feel that something there's a momentum and how
do I keep that going, particularly on days when I
was feeling like, oh, it's not gonna last. It's you know,
it's very tokenistic and people are going to get sick
of me, and who the hell am I to think
(34:11):
that anyone wants to listen? And then it's like, well,
someone who I listened to quite a lot is mel Robbins, right,
And you look at her story and it's like, well,
what on earth makes her special? And she goes through
her you know, life story and her what she's called,
you know, failures or learnings, and it's like, well, she's
(34:34):
just a normal person that's going do you know what.
I don't give a shit. I'm giving it a crack,
and it's it's gonna sound weir wiry, But to me,
that's really inspiring to kind of go, well, yeah, okay,
people might not like it, but I'm still going to
do it. And so I think I had that confidence
brewing for a little bit under the surface, but I
(34:56):
was still too scared to go all right, I'm going
to do this. I'm going to do this and it
sounds really stupid, and I've said it to you before,
but I've been doing what I call shit posting to TikTok,
and it's been really safe because there's only three people
on there that I actually know in real life, so
(35:18):
it's been a safe space posting it to their then
say my Instagram, where it's all people that I know.
And then just this week, I've posted something that I
wrote on my Instagram and I thought, I'm just going
to do it, like it's why not. You know, these
are people whose opinions I do value. I know that
they do care about me. I'm just going to do it.
And I got so many messages it was really nice,
(35:41):
and I thought, I'm there, like I'm there's still you know,
there's always work, there's always there's always improvement, there's always
things to chase. But just this week, maybe it's the
the refresh of being away and having the headspace to
the time. But something shifted and the feeling has caught
(36:04):
up to the or the actions caught up to the feeling.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
If I were to say to you hypothetically or maybe not,
I would to say to you that for the rest
of life, the feeling and the action will never align,
and maybe the feeling will never really shift, but if
you look hard, the action will. Will you would you
(36:29):
would you stay as engaged in a direction, yes, because
even though it's taken this long, I've still somewhere been
engaged in wanting to chip away towards the action. I
think I'm just I'm putting far more effort into it now. Yeah,
(36:56):
And what's changed that.
Speaker 5 (36:59):
Feedback? Honestly, I think I've always kind of thought that.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
I mean, I was eighteen nineteen when I got the
opportunity to go and do some writing for like two
of the biggest TV shows in the country, right, and.
Speaker 5 (37:15):
That to me was like, this is it. I'm done.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
You know, no one really gets this opportunity. It's smooth sailing.
I'm just going to write for TV for the rest
of my life. And they were like, yeah, that's cute.
You're nineteen. You've got nothing to no stories to tell.
So I think for a very long time, probably since then,
I've been chasing that and trying to get back to
(37:40):
that without really knowing how. And this was, you know,
obviously before social media and a lot of internet, and
I remember even having to go to my friend's house
and use their dial up to check my emails to
find out that I had the opportunity to go and
work on those shows, and you know, you put it
into that content of it was I always kind of
(38:03):
thought that I would do something in that space. But
then with the emergence of social media and influencers and
so many people just being able to have access to
create at their fingertips, that's when I think it started
to shift of oh my god, there's so many people
that are doing this, and you know, why would I
(38:24):
bother when there's so many other people doing this? So
that was the shift around that in terms of the
feeling and the action, Like, I think the feeling's always
been there, but there's been a real apprehension around the action.
And maybe, if I'm being really honest, it's probably been
a lot of laziness as well. You know, like I
(38:45):
I work full time, and you know, isn't that enough,
Like because I work full time, so and then it's like, well,
there's so many other people that are chasing what they
want in the hours outside of work because your data
doesn't finish at five. And I think that's been a
bit of a shift as well, like I can actually
get off my ass and do other things outside of work.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
I reckon like the idea that what influences us. So
there's we have belief, self belief and other people's belief,
and sometimes we borrow a bit of other people's in
order to cultivate our own. So there's got to be
this balance of I need some self belief, but also
(39:28):
other people's belief can help me get there. But then
we can become too reliant on that. So there's this
ever present shift in everything that influences who we are,
what we do, how we see the world, and I
reckon that's the real challenge. It's how do I how
do I manage my own mind and mindset and perception?
How do I manage and I'm always in the middle
(39:50):
of my own life, and then how do I manage
who I have around me and seeing how their influence
influences me objectively? And how do I what work do
I need to do to deliberately cultivate mindset and how
(40:11):
I feel and my perception of everything and opportunities make decisions,
and that that stuff was always shifting, and what is
good for us can very quickly become a crutch for us,
you know, like I need one of the things I
left on the mountain I very much. When I come
back from the Himalayas and we did the burning and
(40:32):
leaving shit on the mountain. And the big one I
talked about was shame because that was just such a
huge shift for me. But the other big thing, the
second thing on that list, was my need for other
people to believe in me, because all of a sudden
that had become something that I didn't realize I was
holding onto. Why do I need everybody else to believe
(40:57):
in me? I've never needed that in this way before,
And I remember, I don't know if it must have
been before I went away. I think I messaged my
boxing coach and I said, just out of the blue
one day and said, you know, I was just you know,
I can't remember exactly how I worded it, but it was,
what are you seeing me? Because here's a guy that's
(41:19):
now that's known me for years and sees me in
a with a level of intimacy in a way that
most people don't and in some ways maybe see maybe
those parts of me better than I know myself, but
also only sees tip the box so that I show up,
I come, I do training specifically, and then I get
(41:40):
on out of there. So I was just interested to
see what he saw in me as a human and
he gave me a really deep, thoughtful answer, and I
was like shit. And one of the things it was like,
you don't believe in yourself. And I was like, well,
at the time, I was like, fuck off are you
talking about? Then I was like, God, You're so right
(42:04):
that I was at times shaping all of my decisions
in training to try and figure out what he wanted
without consulting what I just knew best, what I just
did best, what I knew about me that worked. We
always trying to find what other people. So these things
that are great for us can shift into things that
(42:24):
are a crutch and negative for us. And I reckon
that's the biggest challenge. God, that was a big old rant,
wasn't it true?
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Though?
Speaker 4 (42:32):
I mean one of the biggest things that I've realized.
And even you know, this morning your message me and
said what are we going to talk about? And I'm like,
what are we going to talk about?
Speaker 5 (42:41):
Far out?
Speaker 4 (42:42):
And so I was lucky enough to go overseas last
year as well, and one of the biggest things that
I found, like we did about five different countries and
you have to use your voice in order to be
heard and to express what you want in any given moae,
and you've got to do it in a way that
(43:03):
you know, it's a couple of basic words here and
there to communicate in a different language.
Speaker 5 (43:07):
And I was like, there's.
Speaker 4 (43:09):
No one in this moment who is speaking for me,
and I have to actually step forward and do that
for myself if I want something. And I got back
and I thought, that's that's the biggest takeaway, is using
my own voice. And so from then and up until now,
that's been in the back of my mind. And it
made me realize, like in the practicality of I literally
(43:30):
had to use my voice just in order to get
you know, water, which you know, different words in different languages.
And it made me go wow. For a lot of
my life, majority of my life, I've been waiting for
somebody else to come in and speak for me and
stick up for me and save me from certain things.
(43:54):
And something then happened where I had to do that
for myself, and it was terrifying and I didn't think
I could do it, and it caused a lot of
anxiety and I ended up getting quite sick. And at
(44:16):
the end of it, I still did it and So
that was that. That was quite literally in my mountain,
and it made me go, well, I can actually do
this for myself, and I can get to a place
that I want to be that is sticking up for myself,
(44:37):
that is showing a strength, that is being true to
who I am in my way, but not relying on
anyone else to do it for me. That was that
was huge and there was a lot of work with
my shrink around that. And yeah, literally that was if
I could have you know, popped something in the jar
(44:57):
or you know, set something on fire and let it
not the mountain. That was metaphorically that was it that
huge realization that I was expecting or hoping that someone
would come in and use their.
Speaker 5 (45:12):
Voice for me.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
So we're so scared of failure, aren't we like, and
even when we like all the theory about it as
top of mind for me that I'm three weeks out
from going to Queensland and delivering this keynote. In this
course I've been doing that, I've done a specific learning
that in untiffed like versions of speaking, and this whole
(45:39):
keynote I'm delivering, there's a huge component of it that
is uncomfortably untiffed, like where I am I've gotten I'm
so close to doing it now that I'm internally really grappling.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
I'm going.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
I do I just push back and say no, that
this is not going to work for me. Or do
I take my own medicine and say, you know, we
learn best out of failure, so be prepared. Am I
just not prepared to do what I preach, which is
fucking try hard things and fail like because at the
(46:17):
start of the course you said, well, try something and
it'll work or it won't, and at least you'll come
out and you'll know more. And I've learned heaps. But
it's so funny to watch myself in the middle of it,
and I'm going, you, if I were coaching me, how
would I coach me? Or would I say to me
right now? But there's the real me getting in the
(46:39):
way of that, going yeah, But I am me and
it's different. I am me, So I want to do
it this way, you know. It's like I'm grappling with
is this true? Could this be better if I just
do it this way? Could this unlock something that is
actually better? But I don't want to do it because
it's more comfortable to and enjoy to stay a little
(47:02):
bit familiar with how I do things.
Speaker 4 (47:06):
But haven't we learned just to say fuck comfort.
Speaker 3 (47:09):
Exactly like and I And it's I feel like such
a hypocrite, right because my whole, my whole, most of
my keynotes and speaking really comes back to what I
learned through that, through boxing, through doing hard shittness, Like,
what about all those lessons? What about like you've got it.
You didn't learn how to slip a punch without getting
(47:30):
punched in the face a million times, without black eyes,
without blood noses and tears and headaches, like that's what
it took.
Speaker 5 (47:39):
Well, this is the thing. Why are you so?
Speaker 4 (47:41):
Why are you automatically jumping to the fact that you're
going to fail because at the moment you're feeling uncomfortable
when what on earth is more uncomfortable than me punch
in the face.
Speaker 3 (47:54):
I can dissociate with that. So it's all good. It's
feel good, you know, So.
Speaker 4 (48:00):
Why can't you apply that though? I'm flipping this on
you because you've just said that you've started this course
and you've learnt so much, and yeah, it's a completely
different style to what you're used to. But you've learnt
so much, So how come you're automatically jumping to I'm
going to fail even though you're saying I've learnt so much.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
And okay, I probably shouldn't call it failure at this
point in time, completely transparently, at this point in time,
I do not believe that it is going to be
the best method for me, and whether or not, I
(48:44):
don't value the approach for me for my style. I
don't value the approach because I feel like a performer
and what I value in speakers and what I value
in my ability and where I think I shine is
my ability to connect and meet where people are at.
(49:06):
And it's in that connection and that togetherness and that
energy and that we are all in something together. Whereas
I feel this is a lot more orchestrated, This is
a lot more planned and structured and tight that I
don't have that wiggle room, and I'll be very especially
in a first delivery, I'll be very in my head
(49:28):
about okay, how am I meant to do this?
Speaker 2 (49:31):
So I feel like a performer and.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
I go well, when I see speakers that I can
tell a rehearsed that are in their head, I actually
can't connect, Like if I feel like somebody I felt,
if I feel like someone's reading me a story out
of their mind, I kind of switch off and go
(49:54):
I just want That's why I like speaking to you.
You're not putting on a show. You're sitting here in
front of me, and just like I do, you're completely
oblivious to the people listening in and you're just going, hey,
thinking about this, asking this question. That's how I like to.
But you know there's that other part of me going
(50:16):
to if you don't fucking know everything, So do the thing.
Learn there's going to be and there will be. There
will be a lot I'll take out of this that
is important. But you know, whether you need to go
from nought to one hundred or just meet it at
fifty and go, hey, that's I've learned this and fifty
is good for me. But it's fucking uncomfortable, like and
(50:37):
it's what is interesting to me is it's like, you've
got to be prepared to get punched in the face,
and I'm gonna have got to get punched in the face.
Speaker 4 (50:47):
Yeah, So in that scale, then, given how how driven
you are and that you are prepared to get punched
in the face, whether physically or you know, metaphorically, would
you you genuinely be happy at only hitting a fifty
or just hitting a fifty rather than going the whole way?
Speaker 3 (51:06):
Well, this is so, I guess it brings me back
to my question earlier to you, was that curiosity around
you think it's more important the feeling of confidence or
the reality they're doing or the perception. And it's like,
I'm not yet sure because I'm because also it's that
objective versus subjective. We have a story in our mind.
(51:30):
And I go, well, most people, the vast majority of
people in that room haven't seen me speak before, so
they don't have a perception. And they also don't hang
out with me all the time, so they don't they
kind of know that version of TIV, so they're not
going to have anything to compare it with. But then
(51:51):
I go, well, how do I then you're going off
the feet? Well, is the feedback just because you're being nice,
like it just feels like murky ground to go? Well,
was that better or not? I don't know, because then
I've got I've got feedback coming from people who've never
seen the other side, and I don't really.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
Know what to do. With what direction to take that.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
Tricky. I know you think you're an overthinker. Fucking welcome.
Speaker 4 (52:19):
Oh no, I'm totally overthinka.
Speaker 5 (52:22):
Yeah, yeah, my god.
Speaker 4 (52:24):
If it's that thing that like if we walked around
with like thought bubbles and people could see what we
were thinking, Like, I think I'd put someone into a
coma if they had to read the constant thing that
was my goodness one of my friends.
Speaker 5 (52:38):
Like, I think I would send like five novel sized
texts all.
Speaker 4 (52:42):
In a row and then just go, you're welcome. This
is what you signed up for in being my friend.
Speaker 5 (52:51):
Ah yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
Anyway, stay tuned for that.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
We're gonna have to wrap up because I just realized
about five minutes I've got another podcast, so she'd probably
stop chatting.
Speaker 5 (53:01):
They should.
Speaker 3 (53:02):
Where can people follow your TikTok? Shit shit on't.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
What do you call it?
Speaker 5 (53:07):
My TikTok? Ship posts, ship posts?
Speaker 2 (53:09):
Where do people follow them?
Speaker 4 (53:11):
So my account is called kel on TikTok, pretty straightforward
and yeah, if anyone wants to have a look.
Speaker 5 (53:20):
I did put a post up.
Speaker 4 (53:21):
About the lady who did her food reviews, and I've
got a few comments and I don't know, maybe in
some kind of miracle. There's people out there that might
know who she is. I would love to see what
she was talking about. She could have been saying that
the pastor was shitting the beer with Stale.
Speaker 5 (53:37):
Who knows.
Speaker 3 (53:38):
Imagine if you had the confidence to have gone up
and said, what's your blog, what's your TikTok? Where's your blog?
Where's your thing? I want to follow you? Imagine could
have been one of those sliding doors moments.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
All right.
Speaker 5 (53:53):
Imagine?
Speaker 3 (53:55):
Yeah, thanks, Kel, You're amazing.
Speaker 2 (54:00):
Always love chatting.
Speaker 5 (54:02):
Thanks for having me again.
Speaker 2 (54:03):
We'll chat again soon.
Speaker 5 (54:05):
Cool.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
So see everyone, She.
Speaker 1 (54:10):
Says, now never, I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 3 (54:19):
Gott it coast, got it, got it, got it,
She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm tiff.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
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Speaker 2 (00:48):
Dot au.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Kel Smith. If your feet touched even touched the ground
yet since you've touched down back in Australia.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Look, it took about a week. The jet lag was
just insane. Like people say, you know, it takes a
little bit, particularly on the way home, but it just wasn't.
We weren't sleeping for I think about five days, and
I brought back malatonin since you can't buy it here,
and it works really well, but then it's like waking
(01:21):
up at two three four the day before I went
back to work. I think I had about two hours sleep,
but yeah, past maybe three days back to normal.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
All right, you bet tell everyone where you've been. They
might think you've just ducked over to Tazzy for a
quick trip. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Well the jet lag across, you know, across the back straight.
So I was in Italy for just under three weeks
for a friend's birthday, which was incredible, absolutely incredible. First
time there, no third time, luckily Italy. It's quite incredible.
You know, the biggest thing that I found was that
(02:00):
you're walking around everywhere and it's just the history of
the place, so you'll go and see things here and
the way, Like, we went to this thing called the Catacombs,
which is where like popes are buried and there's bones
and it's it was quite creepy, but I'm walking through
(02:21):
going that's right.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
This is real. It's not a recreation.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
It's not kind of what people assume it looked like
or think it looked like.
Speaker 5 (02:30):
This is actually real.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
And that was quite mind blowing that it was that old,
like it dated back to I think they said the
earliest known instance of someone being in there was three
hundred and thirteen.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Yeah, it's funny when I was going to India. We
had a couple of days after coming back from the
Himalayas back into Delhi before we flew back to Australia,
and my friend and II Shannon, we were like, we're
going to go down to the.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Taj It's quite like it's it.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
I can't remember how many hours it took to drive
there now, but anyway, it was a massive drive and
I'm like, oh, we've got a couple of days.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
It's a building, like.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
I'm not I don't know, I'm not done from that
into it for that whole drive down. Anyway, we did.
We drove down there and we spent those two days
seeing a range of monuments, but the Taj Mahal I
just remember. I can remember, you know when you remember
these moments vividly. I remember standing and looking at it,
(03:36):
and I cannot describe the emotions.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
It was like the vision.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
It was in the morning was already daylight, but it
was quite early, but it was like this pastel painting.
I was like, this doesn't even look real. And the
whole experience of being there and experiencing that was just
une and I just isn't it funny? I didn't expect
(04:03):
that I will not like I'm I wouldn't say I'm
someone that's into monuments or architecture or anything.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
But wow, we kind of like indexts. I traveled with
my partner and then a whole group of friends, but
it was almost like a celebrity country, if that makes sense.
So it's all of these things that you've seen in
photos or on TV or on videos since you were
a kid. So like the Colisseum, or like the Eiffel Tower,
(04:29):
things like that I remember seeing. Yeah, I was lucky
enough to see the Eiffel Tower, and the first time
I saw it, I just I just said this huge
smile on my face. I was like, Wow, that's it.
That's you know, I've been looking at that. It's such
a it's like it's an icon of a landscape, if
that makes sense. So yeah, I totally get it. It's
(04:50):
it's quite incredible to see those things in person.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
What do you get out of travel when you that
you forget, Like when you go back there, have you
forgotten that you get back and you're like, oh this,
Oh I.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
Just it felt quite free.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
So I think we've discussed this before, but I was
free ranging the whole time, so no no Apple Watch data, no.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Free and no data deliberation.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Before you left, it was I was thinking should I
shouldn't I?
Speaker 5 (05:20):
Like, am I actually going to be working out? Will I?
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Will I limit how much pastor I have every day?
Absolutely not?
Speaker 5 (05:29):
And how much how.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Much does closing those rings or seeing that data? How
much does that impact my mindset my mental health really,
because I was having days here before that going well,
I haven't hit my ten thousand steps or my you know,
self imposed number of calories for the day.
Speaker 5 (05:48):
So it's seven o'clock.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
At night and well, I, you know, better keep going
so that I close those rings. So yeah, being in
a different place and not having that was very liberating,
I think. And just eating all the pasture as well.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
If it's not tracked, it doesn't.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
Count exactly right, And you know what they say, the
food's different there.
Speaker 5 (06:18):
It absolutely is.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Like I've heard of people who are siliac that can
go over there and eat the pasta because the ingredients
are so different there far. I think they're far more pure,
so there's not as many you know, fake ingredients bulking
it up. So therefore people who would normally be intolerant
(06:40):
can actually quite literally stomach the food.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Actually, David Gillespie on the Project last week was talking
about the Motherfucker Jean and processing FOL eight and how
a lot of people that think they're gluten free or
that they have better results going gluten free, it can
often be because they have a genetic variant of the
(07:07):
motherfucker gene and they cannot And FOL eight is put
it into all baked goods, all bread in Australia, so
if you can't process that, And I found that really
interesting because I have one variant of that gene, so
I'm a little bit sluggish and I don't eat a
lot of bread, so it probably doesn't doesn't really apply
(07:28):
to me, but I did think, oh that's interesting.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
And it's also too like maybe it's just because it
wasn't discovered yet, but I remember growing up like I
wouldn't hear of anyone, like in primary school that had
a gluten intolerance or nut allergy even And now it's everywhere.
And is it because you know, I mean there's obviously
studies on this. Is it because of you know, what's
going into the food, or is it just there's more
(07:54):
studies on it? And it's more aware. But yeah, so
that that was absolutely freeing overseas.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Yeah, I think it makes me think about we think
that everything we are doing is right, and we don't
give ourselves the opportunity to step out and just reflect. Like,
so we go, all right, well, I wear this watch
and I'm doing ten thousand steps a day, and I
do all my workouts and I close all the rings
(08:23):
and that's what I have to do because that's what
I'm tracking, and that's and we've chosen to do that.
So we already have a bias against that is what
I need to do. And amongst all of that obsessively
watching that data, our body screaming out to us, Hey,
you know what I need to do. I need you
to fucking switch off. That's what I need you to do.
I need you to stop the mental processing that's happening,
(08:47):
which is energy and stress and cortisol that's just coming
from even just the awareness of doing all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
And so you go, you go.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
To another country and you have this amazing time, you
present all of the time, you eat all the pastor
in the world, and you fucking enjoy it, and your
body is like able to let go and just go oh,
I can actually hit a baseline now and chill out.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
That's exactly what it was. And also like being removed
from your everyday life, which is such a luxury, Like
you're not worried about got to do the washing, got
to do the dishes, the floor needs vacuuming. You know,
cats just shit on the floor and I need to
clean that before I jump onto a podcast. And so
(09:31):
you do have that extra space in your mind, I think.
And it's very interesting what you just said about holding
yourself back. And so we were sat in a cafe
this one day and we thought, let's just just stop
and have a drink. And most places are fairly opposed
to that, but this place was pretty cool. I'm sitting
there like people watching. It was the most incredible thing
(09:52):
for people watching because not only are you in a
different country, but so are thousands of other people. So
it's his huge mix of different cultures, which is just
it's such a great conversation starter. You can sit down
and someone might you know, look at you and go,
so where are you from? And then suddenly you've got
this conversation that goes on for three hours with you know,
(10:12):
people that you've never met.
Speaker 5 (10:13):
Before really cool.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
So we sat down this day and this woman comes
and she would have been I'm going to say maybe
early seventies, and she was in this really lovely, bright
yellow dress and she's pulling her chair out and she
looks at the waitress and she just says, cut your
peppi and a beer. She said it, you know, with
more accent than that. And I thought, that's she knows
(10:37):
what she wants, this lady. And she sits down and
she had this little backpack that said Rome on it
and a little wallet that said Rome on it. I'm like, oh,
she must be you know, she's clearly a tourist. And
her food comes and she pulls out her phone and
she starts doing a food review and so she's, you know,
she's going over the food like this, and then she's
(10:58):
doing the beer and then she goes up to the
name of the restaurant and she's filming for it. Must
have been a blog. It must have been on Instagram.
I would love to find her. I'm not sure how,
but I thought how amazing that, And maybe it was
my bias. I'm looking at her, going, you don't seem
like the kind of person, particularly of the age that
(11:20):
would be doing something like that, and I had to
really check myself on, like, well, why do I think
that she's not the type of person? And then I thought,
I want to be her when I grow up, because
that's really cool, just to know what you want before
you even sit down, and then be so passionate and
enjoy it so much that you want to share it
with people. I thought it was just it was one
(11:40):
of the highlights, actually, just this quiet moment of watching her.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
We're going to talk today about confidence, and well, what
are we going to talk about?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
You tell me I made you.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
Pick you did? And I thought, probably for me.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
Over the past year, it's been a really big journey
of building confidence. And what started out initially as talking
to you offline for coaching then has turned into me
invading both yours and Craig's podcasts. And I think in
a few of the initial episodes, I was just banging
(12:19):
on about you know, well I'm lacking confidence, and you know,
I need to do this and I need to do that.
And I thought, the more I keep talking about that,
the more that's the story I keep telling myself, and
the more it stays true. And then I started to get,
you know, really good feedback about being in these episodes,
(12:40):
and I was like, Okay, well, these are people that
I don't even know, so they don't have to say
anything nice. So maybe there's some truth to it, and
maybe I can start believing and then start stepping into
that a bit more and a bit more and a
bit more. And I thought, potentially that's of interest to
other people who are in the same situation of really
(13:03):
wanting to give something a go, but what they keep
telling themselves is holding them back. So yep, maybe that's
something to unpack and just the idea of chipping away
at it and just giving it a go. And you know,
I remember in our first episode together, I was talking
about how I was really inspired by the idea of
(13:26):
even if you are scared to do something, just do
it anyway and do it scared. And that's probably what
this whole year has.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Been for me.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Just just do it anyway, even if it is scary,
and so far it's turning out pretty well.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Always does, Mate, always does. What is what's your definition
of confidence? So when you say I want to be
more confident, what do you mean? What does that look
and feel like?
Speaker 5 (13:57):
Not having?
Speaker 4 (13:59):
Not having any apprehension about doing something that I want
to do, so whether it's writing, whether it's putting photos up, videos,
things like that, just not having the apprehension of what
if someone doesn't like it? Well, of course people won't
like it, not it's what I'm doing, isn't for everyone,
(14:19):
and reframing that even if it's just for me, that's enough.
And I think that's kind of been the real change
that accepting that if I'm happy with it, then that's okay,
that's enough for me.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
I've been having this thought tangent recently a lot where
I've just been thinking about how as humans and I'm
definitely not excluded in this, but I think it's universal.
We care so much about what people think. What do
they think of me? What do they say about me?
(15:01):
What will they say? What will they think? But we
never maybe everyone else does. Maybe it's just not me,
but we never go do they care about me?
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Like? What does Kelly think about me? But does she
care about me?
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Like?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Because that matters more?
Speaker 3 (15:19):
What do we care about if someone so people? Because
think about the people that are in our world that
we don't that we're not close enough to care, so
we don't care about them, not because we dislike them,
we just.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Don't care.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
We're not close, we're not involved with them. We have
thoughts about them, and so when we see something, we
might have an opinion and that might not be an
opinion they want to hear. Should they give a toss?
Speaker 4 (15:47):
Well, this is the thing, right, And it was also
I had this moment of clarity around whose opinion do
I actually value? And I was putting a lot of
pressure and a lot of stock into the opinions of
people who and it was completely my own fault, like, oh, well,
(16:08):
what if that person thinks something bad and you know,
they've previously said something that I didn't like or I
didn't agree with, or something that made me feel quite
defensive or it was a bit of a put down.
And then I thought, well, how much does that person
actually matter to me? Are they a friend? Are they
just somebody who's in my kind of sphere? And then
(16:29):
I thought, who's within my world that I actually I
do value their opinion and I do think that they're
doing some good, or I do think that they're quite inspiring,
and I want to spend time with them. And that
was a huge shift in terms of how I'm putting
myself out there. And I remember one day at work,
(16:53):
I was showing a colleague a snippet of an episode
that you and I had done, and I was feeling
quite cocky and I'm like, check out, look at me.
And she listened to it and she goes, why aren't
you bringing this to work? Why don't I get this
version of you rather than the shit that I have
to deal with? Yeah? Yeah, And I was like, oh wow,
(17:20):
that's that was really eye opening. And it's something that
I keep going back to because another thing that I've
been really working on is, you know, if I can
have these really incredible conversations with you, with Craig, why
can't I keep having those conversations with other people? You know,
like we're all just normal people. I'm surrounding myself with
(17:43):
people who are interested in the same things, So why
can't I keep having these conversations just in my day
to day? And to me, that comes down to being
kind of more in alignment. And again, it's kind of
coming back to stop talking about the lack and start
stepping into where I really want to be.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
And now it.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
Feels like there's been this shift around how I'm presenting
how I conduct myself, how.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
I want to be.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
I hope I'm explaining that right, But it's definitely been
a big shift and kind of and it's also been
there's been a few key people that have said, you're
doing really well, keep going, and that's been a huge
confidence boost, I would say, or like a huge push
in the right direction. To know that it's kind of
it's noticed makes me think.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
About like the idea of so as you was saying that,
and I was thinking about when when I first had
doctor Bill for a couple of episodes, who then became
my psychotherapist, because essentially that's what he kept bloody well
doing to our podcast was a psycho therapy session. So
I was like, hey, may I step into your office?
(19:01):
And the very first session, I said to him, so
I'm because he's in Perth, so we were still over zoom.
I said, do we I'm going I'm going to pretend
that this is a podcast because my ability to stay
deeply introspective and present and in like I just show
(19:22):
up in a way that's really beneficial and honest and
but open. And I found that in and it happened
for a little bit where I would shut down, I
would grow down, right. So I think what I've learned
from that is it's not that we have this idea
(19:46):
of our identity. I am, I am Kel, and I
am not confident. I am Kel, and I get anxiety
and I'm not good enough at work, so I'm not
I've got it. So we play this role. But what
is actually I think what's beneficial is being able to
step out and go what part of me, what part
of me shows up in different places, and what might
(20:10):
it be about that environment that makes that part of
me show up? Or if something shifts in me and
I am start showing up differently and I can notice that,
what might it be about the interaction the space and
the environment that is making me show up that way?
Speaker 4 (20:29):
In terms of the podcast, for instance, and how I'm
taking that back into my everyday life. It's absolutely been
the fact that I've been given space to use my voice,
and that has been a huge game changer for me
because I've always been very quiet, very reserved, very introverted.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
And look I still am.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
I was in this big team meeting the other day
and I could feel physically that I was kind of
withdrawing because it was there was like twenty five people
in the room. I know them all and they're all lovely,
but it was twenty five people in the room, and
holy shit, I can't say anything to twenty five people
because I don't use my voice. So using that in
(21:13):
a way where I'm being told you asked really good questions,
you speak really well. I've never been told that before
in my life. And so, as I say, it's been
those kind of little nudges of you're doing well at
this that have kind of prompted me to go, if
I'm doing well in this space, why can't I take
it somewhere else? And so I'm trying that and that's
(21:36):
been the biggest change.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Why do you think you got the feedback about those questions,
about the way you ask questions? What from the outside
looking in? What do you see? Why do you think
people said that?
Speaker 5 (21:49):
I'm really not sure.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
However, I listened to a webinar a few days ago,
and I noticed that the person asking the questions wasn't
com it, and so that made me kind of go, Okay, yeah,
I can speak, and there was a huge difference there. Yeah,
So I think I noticed on the Facebook page, for instance,
(22:12):
there was people commenting saying your questions are really good
and they sound so thoughtful. And that was the first
time that I'd had any kind of feedback that was external,
Like there were these people who I have no idea
who they are, and again like they they don't have
(22:33):
to say anything nice, and they were. And I was like, oh,
this is this is kind of cool, this is you
know maybe because for a long time it was still nah,
it's not true. People are just you know, people who
know me are just being nice because they know me
and they know that I lack confidence in these areas.
But then even so, I bought my nan an Alexa
(22:54):
speaker so that she can listen to the episodes and
I've written down you know, you need to ask for
this number and all this kind of stuff. And so
she thinks she's got this great relationship with Alexa. Now
she's like, I just tell her what to do and
she listens, and if she doesn't listen, well, I give
her a hard time.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
And I'm like, okay, how's that going.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
And I was there a few weeks ago and she said, so,
I've listened to a few of your podcasts and I went, yep.
She goes, you're hiding your true self from me, and
I went, what do you mean?
Speaker 5 (23:27):
And she goes, you're.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Incredible and I went thanks, and she goes, no, no,
she goes, I'm not giving you any bullshit.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
This is how she talks to me. I'm not giving
you any bullshit.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
You're really good and when you come and see me,
you just act like you're my little granddaughter. And she goes,
you're really intelligent, and she goes, look, I always I
knew that, but she said it's more than what I thought,
and I just went okay. So that's the second person
that's telling me that I should be bringing what I'm
(24:01):
doing here into everything else. And that is you know,
should you need people to tell you?
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Maybe?
Speaker 5 (24:11):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
Does it help for me? Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (24:14):
So I think you do need people to tell you
because you can't. We can't know. It's really hard to
get objective about what we're in the middle of. Yeah, like,
how do we know what we're like? We don't get
We have to get for we have to tell people
when they're good at things and why you know. I
remember when I used to tell Harps I liked to
(24:36):
particular episode or a thing or whatever. He would always
say what is it about that you would like? And
at first I was like, well, all right, but it
was like, oh, that's really bad I do that. Now
I'm like, okay, what do you like about it? Because
are you like cool? If you're just saying you like
it because you want to interact with me, that might
be the case, but if not, I'd like to know
what specifically you enjoyed about that so that I can
(24:59):
be aware of what works well and maybe ensuring I
do that all the time. But I think with you,
it is your interested and you listen. So I was
talking about this with a friend of mine, a speaker
this morning. We're having a chat and so just had
(25:20):
Bruce Perry on the show for the second time. He's
on My Favorite Girls. I love the hell out of him,
and at the end of the episode he said, thanks,
you're a really good listener. It's not often that you
get to have a conversation with someone who really listens.
People come on with their questions and there's probably been
(25:41):
in at least four where I'm just starstruck, like I'll
be goodness, and they've said feedback like that at the end.
That holds so much weight because I know they are
on huge podcasts and lots of them, and they don't
have to say that, And so I think it's not
(26:04):
about sometimes it's not about what you know. It's about
it's about these innate kind of types of skill sets
or intelligences that aren't typical, so we don't recognize them.
Nobody recognizes someone's ability to just listen and be comfortable
listening and being themselves without coming Most people come in
(26:27):
and go, what do I know? How do I might
make myself sound like I know stuff? And how do
I sound? And we put on a mask to ask
that question. You don't do that, I hope not.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
I think also to how it kind of started was
I did have all of these questions and it was
almost just very I was just trying my luck. In
all honesty, I'm like, well, if I can get on
there and I can ask these questions that I want
the answers to, then potentially like I'm not the only one.
And given the popularity of your show, Craigs, I think
(27:07):
self improvement in general and mental health, fitness, everything combined
that we're all talking about, so many people are interested
in it, and I'd been listening to so many different
podcasts and reading so many different things that I could
see that there was all of these questions that kept
(27:27):
coming up quite consistently, and I thought, well, yeah, absolutely,
I'm not the only one that's interested in this. But
it's also I think having the respect of being given
the platform and your time that yeah, I just sit
and listen and just take it all in because I
know that there's so many other people that would go
(27:48):
get out of the way. I want that chair, and
so it's definitely making the most of it.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
What's changed about what you think or feel or believe
about confidence or has anything changed?
Speaker 4 (28:04):
I don't feel as scared, so I think for a
very long time. I remember back in high school, I
would write, and you know, i'd feel these notebooks full
of short stories, and I'd pass them around to all
my friends and they'd read them, and I never had
any apprehension. And maybe it was just because I had
(28:30):
a belief that I mean, I was the only one
that was actually doing that, So it was kind of like, well,
I'm the only one people appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
And I thought, how do I get that back?
Speaker 4 (28:39):
Like how do I get back to just having that
self belief and putting my stuff out there so that
people can give me feedback, because how will I learn
anything about it?
Speaker 5 (28:50):
How will I grow?
Speaker 4 (28:51):
And so that's what I've been doing. But I know
that somewhere along the way between you know, high school
and now, there was a huge knock in confidence. I
don't know when, but it certainly did happen. But underlying
that was still always this not not a belief, but
always a feeling of wanting to do more. And I
(29:13):
just didn't know how because it's that that story that
we tell of Okay, well I could do that, but
there's there's so many other people doing it, and how
will I stand out and how will mine be any different?
Speaker 5 (29:28):
And then it's.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Somehow along the way it just kind of changed to
it's not a matter of competing. It's not a matter
of trying to stand out against anyone. It's just fulfilling
that need for myself. And I think that's been the
biggest thing. And instead of I've noticed too, there's been
a shift in kind of being really kind of hesitant
and going, oh, I've done I've done a podcast to
(29:52):
be really cool if you could listen to it. And
now it's just like I don't even need to tell anyone.
They're they're saying to me, have you done another one yet?
And it's nice. It's been this real flip and it's
just something that has become part of what I really
enjoyed doing. Like I don't know if that makes any sense,
but it just it's always felt like there was something
(30:15):
within me that wanted to create and share that, and
I feel like there's more over a fire for that
at the moment.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Is confidence to you, is confidence of feeling or action
or a trait? How do you define it?
Speaker 4 (30:34):
I think it's a feeling and an action. So the
action is the doing because for such a long time
it was stopping me from the doing, because it was
even down to like posting a photo on Instagram, like
I would spend ages, you know, looking for you know that,
I'd plan something and go, I want to share that.
I think that's kind of cool, and you know, coming
(30:56):
up with the right caption and all this kind of
stuff and then just going, oh cares delete, Okay, well
I've just wasted all this time. And then it was
through listening to other things where it was like, your
social media is just that it's yours. It's not for
anyone else, it's yours. And I think listening to those
(31:18):
messages quite consistently has been like, well, okay, yeah, this
is for me. It's if someone else likes it, amazing,
thank you, but this is for me. And bringing it
back to that, so the feeling of I guess ownership
over it and not in my mind giving other people
(31:40):
the power to say yay.
Speaker 5 (31:44):
Orn.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
I know when I for me, when I share thoughts
and ideas and stuff and bullshit on my socials, often
think about the fact that people read it. I'm like,
I wonder if they understand that most the time I'm
writing to me, for me, from me, you know. It's
like when I write a thought or a lesson or
(32:09):
a inside of any sort, it's usually something I've gone through,
I'm going through, or I'm reflecting on that's directly to me,
or I'm reminding myself, Like especially those hard hitting ones.
It's like for your fucking sucks up there, your baby,
It's like, don't do you know, like, because I'm because
we get up and we fall down, and we get
(32:30):
up and we fall down and we learn and we
know and then we fail again. And so that's always
what I'm sharing and sometimes people will comment and I'll think,
I'm actually writing that too. Actually, right, it's actually to me,
you know, I'm in the middle of it.
Speaker 5 (32:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (32:47):
Absolutely, That's something else that I'm really interested in as well, though, right,
Like people will say I failed at that, And it's
how much do you actually fail at something if you
still can keep going?
Speaker 5 (33:00):
Like if.
Speaker 4 (33:02):
If something doesn't work out the way that you want
it to and you don't give it another crack, well
maybe that could be deemed a failure because it's stopped
you in your tracks. But if something doesn't work out
the way that you wanted it to and you still
keep going, and then the outcome changes, like is it
is it a learning or is it still a failure?
Speaker 3 (33:22):
What's more important to you the feeling of confidence or
the action of doing it? Anyway, Oh, I think both.
I think I'm very outcomes driven, like very visually outcomes driven,
So I can have the feeling of being confident has
(33:42):
been there probably a bit longer than the action. So
in doing these.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Episodes, I was kind of like, Okay, well it was
almost like a kind of I can feel it building,
I can feel that something there's a momentum and how
do I keep that going, particularly on days when I
was feeling like, oh, it's not gonna last. It's you know,
it's very tokenistic and people are going to get sick
of me, and who the hell am I to think
(34:11):
that anyone wants to listen? And then it's like, well,
someone who I listened to quite a lot is mel Robbins, right,
And you look at her story and it's like, well,
what on earth makes her special? And she goes through
her you know, life story and her what she's called,
you know, failures or learnings, and it's like, well, she's
(34:34):
just a normal person that's going do you know what.
I don't give a shit. I'm giving it a crack,
and it's it's gonna sound weir wiry, But to me,
that's really inspiring to kind of go, well, yeah, okay,
people might not like it, but I'm still going to
do it. And so I think I had that confidence
brewing for a little bit under the surface, but I
(34:56):
was still too scared to go all right, I'm going
to do this. I'm going to do this and it
sounds really stupid, and I've said it to you before,
but I've been doing what I call shit posting to TikTok,
and it's been really safe because there's only three people
on there that I actually know in real life, so
(35:18):
it's been a safe space posting it to their then
say my Instagram, where it's all people that I know.
And then just this week, I've posted something that I
wrote on my Instagram and I thought, I'm just going
to do it, like it's why not. You know, these
are people whose opinions I do value. I know that
they do care about me. I'm just going to do it.
And I got so many messages it was really nice,
(35:41):
and I thought, I'm there, like I'm there's still you know,
there's always work, there's always there's always improvement, there's always
things to chase. But just this week, maybe it's the
the refresh of being away and having the headspace to
the time. But something shifted and the feeling has caught
(36:04):
up to the or the actions caught up to the feeling.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
If I were to say to you hypothetically or maybe not,
I would to say to you that for the rest
of life, the feeling and the action will never align,
and maybe the feeling will never really shift, but if
you look hard, the action will. Will you would you
(36:29):
would you stay as engaged in a direction, yes, because
even though it's taken this long, I've still somewhere been
engaged in wanting to chip away towards the action. I
think I'm just I'm putting far more effort into it now. Yeah,
(36:56):
And what's changed that.
Speaker 5 (36:59):
Feedback? Honestly, I think I've always kind of thought that.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
I mean, I was eighteen nineteen when I got the
opportunity to go and do some writing for like two
of the biggest TV shows in the country, right, and.
Speaker 5 (37:15):
That to me was like, this is it. I'm done.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
You know, no one really gets this opportunity. It's smooth sailing.
I'm just going to write for TV for the rest
of my life. And they were like, yeah, that's cute.
You're nineteen. You've got nothing to no stories to tell.
So I think for a very long time, probably since then,
I've been chasing that and trying to get back to
(37:40):
that without really knowing how. And this was, you know,
obviously before social media and a lot of internet, and
I remember even having to go to my friend's house
and use their dial up to check my emails to
find out that I had the opportunity to go and
work on those shows, and you know, you put it
into that content of it was I always kind of
(38:03):
thought that I would do something in that space. But
then with the emergence of social media and influencers and
so many people just being able to have access to
create at their fingertips, that's when I think it started
to shift of oh my god, there's so many people
that are doing this, and you know, why would I
(38:24):
bother when there's so many other people doing this? So
that was the shift around that in terms of the
feeling and the action, Like, I think the feeling's always
been there, but there's been a real apprehension around the action.
And maybe, if I'm being really honest, it's probably been
a lot of laziness as well. You know, like I
(38:45):
I work full time, and you know, isn't that enough,
Like because I work full time, so and then it's like, well,
there's so many other people that are chasing what they
want in the hours outside of work because your data
doesn't finish at five. And I think that's been a
bit of a shift as well, like I can actually
get off my ass and do other things outside of work.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
I reckon like the idea that what influences us. So
there's we have belief, self belief and other people's belief,
and sometimes we borrow a bit of other people's in
order to cultivate our own. So there's got to be
this balance of I need some self belief, but also
(39:28):
other people's belief can help me get there. But then
we can become too reliant on that. So there's this
ever present shift in everything that influences who we are,
what we do, how we see the world, and I
reckon that's the real challenge. It's how do I how
do I manage my own mind and mindset and perception?
How do I manage and I'm always in the middle
(39:50):
of my own life, and then how do I manage
who I have around me and seeing how their influence
influences me objectively? And how do I what work do
I need to do to deliberately cultivate mindset and how
(40:11):
I feel and my perception of everything and opportunities make decisions,
and that that stuff was always shifting, and what is
good for us can very quickly become a crutch for us,
you know, like I need one of the things I
left on the mountain I very much. When I come
back from the Himalayas and we did the burning and
(40:32):
leaving shit on the mountain. And the big one I
talked about was shame because that was just such a
huge shift for me. But the other big thing, the
second thing on that list, was my need for other
people to believe in me, because all of a sudden
that had become something that I didn't realize I was
holding onto. Why do I need everybody else to believe
(40:57):
in me? I've never needed that in this way before,
And I remember, I don't know if it must have
been before I went away. I think I messaged my
boxing coach and I said, just out of the blue
one day and said, you know, I was just you know,
I can't remember exactly how I worded it, but it was,
what are you seeing me? Because here's a guy that's
(41:19):
now that's known me for years and sees me in
a with a level of intimacy in a way that
most people don't and in some ways maybe see maybe
those parts of me better than I know myself, but
also only sees tip the box so that I show up,
I come, I do training specifically, and then I get
(41:40):
on out of there. So I was just interested to
see what he saw in me as a human and
he gave me a really deep, thoughtful answer, and I
was like shit. And one of the things it was like,
you don't believe in yourself. And I was like, well,
at the time, I was like, fuck off are you
talking about? Then I was like, God, You're so right
(42:04):
that I was at times shaping all of my decisions
in training to try and figure out what he wanted
without consulting what I just knew best, what I just
did best, what I knew about me that worked. We
always trying to find what other people. So these things
that are great for us can shift into things that
(42:24):
are a crutch and negative for us. And I reckon
that's the biggest challenge. God, that was a big old rant,
wasn't it true?
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Though?
Speaker 4 (42:32):
I mean one of the biggest things that I've realized.
And even you know, this morning your message me and
said what are we going to talk about? And I'm like,
what are we going to talk about?
Speaker 5 (42:41):
Far out?
Speaker 4 (42:42):
And so I was lucky enough to go overseas last
year as well, and one of the biggest things that
I found, like we did about five different countries and
you have to use your voice in order to be
heard and to express what you want in any given moae,
and you've got to do it in a way that
(43:03):
you know, it's a couple of basic words here and
there to communicate in a different language.
Speaker 5 (43:07):
And I was like, there's.
Speaker 4 (43:09):
No one in this moment who is speaking for me,
and I have to actually step forward and do that
for myself if I want something. And I got back
and I thought, that's that's the biggest takeaway, is using
my own voice. And so from then and up until now,
that's been in the back of my mind. And it
made me realize, like in the practicality of I literally
(43:30):
had to use my voice just in order to get
you know, water, which you know, different words in different languages.
And it made me go wow. For a lot of
my life, majority of my life, I've been waiting for
somebody else to come in and speak for me and
stick up for me and save me from certain things.
(43:54):
And something then happened where I had to do that
for myself, and it was terrifying and I didn't think
I could do it, and it caused a lot of
anxiety and I ended up getting quite sick. And at
(44:16):
the end of it, I still did it and So
that was that. That was quite literally in my mountain,
and it made me go, well, I can actually do
this for myself, and I can get to a place
that I want to be that is sticking up for myself,
(44:37):
that is showing a strength, that is being true to
who I am in my way, but not relying on
anyone else to do it for me. That was that
was huge and there was a lot of work with
my shrink around that. And yeah, literally that was if
I could have you know, popped something in the jar
(44:57):
or you know, set something on fire and let it
not the mountain. That was metaphorically that was it that
huge realization that I was expecting or hoping that someone
would come in and use their.
Speaker 5 (45:12):
Voice for me.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
So we're so scared of failure, aren't we like, and
even when we like all the theory about it as
top of mind for me that I'm three weeks out
from going to Queensland and delivering this keynote. In this
course I've been doing that, I've done a specific learning
that in untiffed like versions of speaking, and this whole
(45:39):
keynote I'm delivering, there's a huge component of it that
is uncomfortably untiffed, like where I am I've gotten I'm
so close to doing it now that I'm internally really grappling.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
I'm going.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
I do I just push back and say no, that
this is not going to work for me. Or do
I take my own medicine and say, you know, we
learn best out of failure, so be prepared. Am I
just not prepared to do what I preach, which is
fucking try hard things and fail like because at the
(46:17):
start of the course you said, well, try something and
it'll work or it won't, and at least you'll come
out and you'll know more. And I've learned heaps. But
it's so funny to watch myself in the middle of it,
and I'm going, you, if I were coaching me, how
would I coach me? Or would I say to me
right now? But there's the real me getting in the
(46:39):
way of that, going yeah, But I am me and
it's different. I am me, So I want to do
it this way, you know. It's like I'm grappling with
is this true? Could this be better if I just
do it this way? Could this unlock something that is
actually better? But I don't want to do it because
it's more comfortable to and enjoy to stay a little
(47:02):
bit familiar with how I do things.
Speaker 4 (47:06):
But haven't we learned just to say fuck comfort.
Speaker 3 (47:09):
Exactly like and I And it's I feel like such
a hypocrite, right because my whole, my whole, most of
my keynotes and speaking really comes back to what I
learned through that, through boxing, through doing hard shittness, Like,
what about all those lessons? What about like you've got it.
You didn't learn how to slip a punch without getting
(47:30):
punched in the face a million times, without black eyes,
without blood noses and tears and headaches, like that's what
it took.
Speaker 5 (47:39):
Well, this is the thing. Why are you so?
Speaker 4 (47:41):
Why are you automatically jumping to the fact that you're
going to fail because at the moment you're feeling uncomfortable
when what on earth is more uncomfortable than me punch
in the face.
Speaker 3 (47:54):
I can dissociate with that. So it's all good. It's
feel good, you know, So.
Speaker 4 (48:00):
Why can't you apply that though? I'm flipping this on
you because you've just said that you've started this course
and you've learnt so much, and yeah, it's a completely
different style to what you're used to. But you've learnt
so much, So how come you're automatically jumping to I'm
going to fail even though you're saying I've learnt so much.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
And okay, I probably shouldn't call it failure at this
point in time, completely transparently, at this point in time,
I do not believe that it is going to be
the best method for me, and whether or not, I
(48:44):
don't value the approach for me for my style. I
don't value the approach because I feel like a performer
and what I value in speakers and what I value
in my ability and where I think I shine is
my ability to connect and meet where people are at.
(49:06):
And it's in that connection and that togetherness and that
energy and that we are all in something together. Whereas
I feel this is a lot more orchestrated, This is
a lot more planned and structured and tight that I
don't have that wiggle room, and I'll be very especially
in a first delivery, I'll be very in my head
(49:28):
about okay, how am I meant to do this?
Speaker 2 (49:31):
So I feel like a performer and.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
I go well, when I see speakers that I can
tell a rehearsed that are in their head, I actually
can't connect, Like if I feel like somebody I felt,
if I feel like someone's reading me a story out
of their mind, I kind of switch off and go
(49:54):
I just want That's why I like speaking to you.
You're not putting on a show. You're sitting here in
front of me, and just like I do, you're completely
oblivious to the people listening in and you're just going, hey,
thinking about this, asking this question. That's how I like to.
But you know there's that other part of me going
(50:16):
to if you don't fucking know everything, So do the thing.
Learn there's going to be and there will be. There
will be a lot I'll take out of this that
is important. But you know, whether you need to go
from nought to one hundred or just meet it at
fifty and go, hey, that's I've learned this and fifty
is good for me. But it's fucking uncomfortable, like and
(50:37):
it's what is interesting to me is it's like, you've
got to be prepared to get punched in the face,
and I'm gonna have got to get punched in the face.
Speaker 4 (50:47):
Yeah, So in that scale, then, given how how driven
you are and that you are prepared to get punched
in the face, whether physically or you know, metaphorically, would
you you genuinely be happy at only hitting a fifty
or just hitting a fifty rather than going the whole way?
Speaker 3 (51:06):
Well, this is so, I guess it brings me back
to my question earlier to you, was that curiosity around
you think it's more important the feeling of confidence or
the reality they're doing or the perception. And it's like,
I'm not yet sure because I'm because also it's that
objective versus subjective. We have a story in our mind.
(51:30):
And I go, well, most people, the vast majority of
people in that room haven't seen me speak before, so
they don't have a perception. And they also don't hang
out with me all the time, so they don't they
kind of know that version of TIV, so they're not
going to have anything to compare it with. But then
(51:51):
I go, well, how do I then you're going off
the feet? Well, is the feedback just because you're being nice,
like it just feels like murky ground to go? Well,
was that better or not? I don't know, because then
I've got I've got feedback coming from people who've never
seen the other side, and I don't really.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
Know what to do. With what direction to take that.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
Tricky. I know you think you're an overthinker. Fucking welcome.
Speaker 4 (52:19):
Oh no, I'm totally overthinka.
Speaker 5 (52:22):
Yeah, yeah, my god.
Speaker 4 (52:24):
If it's that thing that like if we walked around
with like thought bubbles and people could see what we
were thinking, Like, I think I'd put someone into a
coma if they had to read the constant thing that
was my goodness one of my friends.
Speaker 5 (52:38):
Like, I think I would send like five novel sized
texts all.
Speaker 4 (52:42):
In a row and then just go, you're welcome. This
is what you signed up for in being my friend.
Speaker 5 (52:51):
Ah yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
Anyway, stay tuned for that.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
We're gonna have to wrap up because I just realized
about five minutes I've got another podcast, so she'd probably
stop chatting.
Speaker 5 (53:01):
They should.
Speaker 3 (53:02):
Where can people follow your TikTok? Shit shit on't.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
What do you call it?
Speaker 5 (53:07):
My TikTok? Ship posts, ship posts?
Speaker 2 (53:09):
Where do people follow them?
Speaker 4 (53:11):
So my account is called kel on TikTok, pretty straightforward
and yeah, if anyone wants to have a look.
Speaker 5 (53:20):
I did put a post up.
Speaker 4 (53:21):
About the lady who did her food reviews, and I've
got a few comments and I don't know, maybe in
some kind of miracle. There's people out there that might
know who she is. I would love to see what
she was talking about. She could have been saying that
the pastor was shitting the beer with Stale.
Speaker 5 (53:37):
Who knows.
Speaker 3 (53:38):
Imagine if you had the confidence to have gone up
and said, what's your blog, what's your TikTok? Where's your blog?
Where's your thing? I want to follow you? Imagine could
have been one of those sliding doors moments.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
All right.
Speaker 5 (53:53):
Imagine?
Speaker 3 (53:55):
Yeah, thanks, Kel, You're amazing.
Speaker 2 (54:00):
Always love chatting.
Speaker 5 (54:02):
Thanks for having me again.
Speaker 2 (54:03):
We'll chat again soon.
Speaker 5 (54:05):
Cool.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
So see everyone, She.
Speaker 1 (54:10):
Says, now never, I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 3 (54:19):
Gott it coast, got it, got it, got it,
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