September 21, 2025 • 66 mins
We set out to talk deadlifts and gym bro nonsense… but before I knew it, we’d skipped the weights entirely and started lifting something way heavier - the big questions of faith, spirituality, and existence itself.
What began as banter turned into a deeply honest dive into Harps’ innermost thoughts on God... from religious upbringings to strange unexplainable moments, and the kind of conversation that rarely make it to the mic.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
She said, it's now never. I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
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(00:29):
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Speaker 3 (00:51):
I'll tell you what everyone before we get underway. I
feel intimidated. I feel undervalued, underappreciated. I'm gonna be honest.
I know Tip's hilarious and lovable and charming and charismatic
on air and you won't believe this, but off air,
fucking straight up bully, straight up bully, yells at me,
(01:13):
bosses me around, and you can imagine how fragile I am.
I mean, have I mentioned how old I am? My
back a lot of stuff, But does she give a fuck.
Oh no, no, but now right, she'll talk. Now, she'd
be all love and light and unicorns and fucking Disneyland,
right to just woo you in. But once that fucking
(01:36):
microphone goes off, she's fucking Genghis calm, fucking annihilates me. Hello, Genghish,
I just spewed in my mouth. Fuck. Um, you know
you're bossy? Right? You do know that?
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Do you?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
You know how bossy you are. I did point out
to her that I'm the actual boss, but she's like,
you're not. The hang up, you're not, which sadly is true.
I don't know how I achieved that, but somehow I
work for her, which is I need a psychologist.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Oh hang on, very good at being bossed around, am I.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
You're fucking terrible. I don't want to boss you around.
It just sometimes you go to be hey, just wait on,
wait a fucking minute. It's not a yeah. I'm like,
we're not married. You can't talk to me like that.
And on top of that, you're honor I'm your boss.
You're like, nah, you're not. I'm like all right then,
(02:42):
all right. Uh, it's someday everyone. It's twenty five to
six in the PM. It's it's been an interesting day
in Melbs. It's been cold, it's been warm, it's been
fucking still, it's been gaale force winds, it's been all
of it's wherever you are in the world, we have
Last time I look, we had listeners in nearly ninety
(03:03):
countries some of those. When I do look at the stats,
it's like four people in Zambia, So to you guys
shout out, So not a lot of people from their listening,
but the four of you fucking thinks if you could
spread the word a bit. I mean, you know, look,
I know you've got other stuff on. You probably got kids,
(03:24):
you've probably got a job, but maybe as your third
priority spreading the typ gospel and if you could because
we're not really crushing it in Zambia, but so if
you could help out, that would be much appreciated. Over
and out, love Harps.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Does everyone realize why I have to be so bossy?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
A child? I am a child, I'm Mary's child. Yeah,
Mum was telling me. I was just on the phone, Mum.
God bless whenever anyone that I know is not well,
Like even if Mom doesn't numb, she got she's straight up.
I'll pray for them. But that's Mary. I'll pray for them.
(04:12):
And what's their name again? I go tell them their name?
All right, I'll pray for them. I might light a
candle for them, depends on if I'm at church or not,
but I'll send up a couple of hail Mary's. And
then our father. I'm like, Mom, that will be good.
You're pretty much God's right hand woman. So I will
tell them. And do you know when I tell people
that my mama's praying for them, and I'm not even joking, right,
(04:36):
it's not there's not a gag coming. Yeah, they some
people get a bit teary. I'm like, no, she really
is actually praying for you. And they're like, oh my god,
that is so and I go and she's got enough
of her own shit, so I don't know why the
fuck she's praying for you, but anyway she is. She's
such a good human. My mom. Yeah, I'll put them
(04:58):
on my list. What's their name? She's got a list,
got a list, God bless her. I'm like, mamam, on
that list. She's like, cool, you. She didn't say fuck.
She's like, you're the constant. You're never offered. But not
in an encouraging way. You know, you need all the
(05:18):
help you can fucking get way, you know, so you know,
if you ever do you ever need some Mary prayers,
anyone hit me up t yp podcast, face facey page,
I'll get married to whack you on the can't hurt,
can't hurt, That's what I think. Can't hurt? You know
what else I think? And I know this is not
what we're talking about, But like my mum's faith, now,
(05:45):
I don't know, is there a God. I grew up
believing there's a God. We don't know. That's why we
call it faith, not knowledge or evidence or data, you know,
but my mum, My mum's pretty short, right, But what
I love is that my mum's faith and her belief
and her prayer and her going to church. Now, whether
or not it's one hundred percent legit, and it's all
(06:06):
everything that she was taught and told and trained to
believe is true, or perhaps some of it or none
of it, it doesn't even matter to me because it
makes her better, It makes her calm or calmer, she
can worry, and it's like it's very very much a
positive in her life. So whether or not I agree
(06:28):
or don't agree, or we align on things or don't
align on things. To me, matters zero. I just look
back and I go, all right, So my mum does
this thing. She has this way of being and living
and believing, and she has all these little rituals and
rules and habits. What's the net result. Well, the net result,
(06:48):
Harps is she's way better than if she didn't have that,
because it gives her a sense of calm and peace
and takes away anxiety. Like I don't think because she's
nearly died a few times with cancer and a heart attack.
Three times cancer, one time heart attack. She doesn't you
know what she said to me the other day, said
(07:11):
we'll talk about her license. She's just got her license
renewed for two years, right, and she goes, well, that'll
do me. I'll be done by then, like I'll be dead,
she's like. But she doesn't go. Oh, She's like, well,
I won't be here in two years, which she probably will.
But you know, she's like, two years is good, Like
that will see me out, she goes. And it's funny
(07:33):
because she has no apparent fear of dying. Dad, on
the other hand, he's probably I don't think he's terrified,
but I think he's more regular, you know, more normal.
He doesn't like talking about it at all, but Mum's
constantly saying to me something like not bringing it up
for the sake, but just in conversation. She'll go, So
(07:54):
when I go to God, make sure you do this.
Make sure you remember that right, because I'm the only one.
There's no kids, there's no grandkids, there's no siblings, there's
just Fatty Harps tells me so much shit to remember.
I'm like, can you write a list before you go
to God, because there's a lot of shit that I
need to do. She goes, I have a list.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, so, but of course she's not scared because God
saved her receipt up front.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Well, you think about what I mean, what my mum
believes is that heaven's better than here, and she doesn't
like she truly believes that. So, you know, apart from
the normal mortal human fear of dying, you know, she's
pretty pretty comfy with it. So good for her. Anyway,
(08:42):
Enough about Mary, Well, I'll.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Got one more question. When you went from hardcore preaching
in the street to I'm not sure about this God business,
that I've been talking about my whole life. Did you
share that with Mary? And what did she think?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Sure? Didn't? Short did? No, No, no, look I didn't. Okay,
what'sn't preaching in the street. But I was. I was
for those three of you don't know. So I did
spend quite a few years in an evangelical Pentecostal Praise
the Lord Church, and and yeah, part of that involved
(09:19):
like me being involved in different ministries and preaching literally
you know, from the altar, reading teaching from the Bible. Yeah,
all of the you know, I'm not talking about the
casual weekend Christian. The I wear a tracksuit. Therefore, I'm
an athlete kind of Christian. You know, look at me.
(09:41):
I own attracts it. I'm an athlete. No, you just
don't attract it. You know, there's people who call themselves things,
and then there's people who do all the work that's
required to actually be that. And I was, like, I was,
you know, fully immersed in my belief in my faith.
And it's not like I went, I don't believe in God.
(10:04):
And if you ask me, now, do I believe in
God or do I believe in Let's just go with
do I believe in God. My answer is yes, Can
I prove that there's a God? No? Am I trying
to convince anyone that there's a God? No Am I
trying to manipulate, coerce, preach, evangelize to any particular person. No?
Could I be wrong? Yes? And this is the whole
(10:28):
you know, if we are. It's very hard to have
a hard wired belief and also be open minded because
when you go, oh, this is the one true Church,
the one true God, the one true doctrine, the one
true theology, you're also saying that everything that doesn't align
with what I believe is wrong. Now that to me
(10:51):
makes no sense. Do I believe that I could be
right about some things and wrong about lots of things? Yes?
I believe that could everything I've ever thought and been
taught about, you know, all things God? Could all of
it be wrong? Yes? Am I comfortable with that kind
(11:13):
of You know, it's like I it's very difficult to
talk about. Well, it's not difficult, but it's very hard
to be you know, very have a very very strong
belief about something you literally cannot prove and also say,
by the way, I'm super open minded and objective. Well,
you can't be both. You can't have a hard line
(11:35):
belief about something for which you have no evidence, right,
And people will go, ah, you know the trees, that's
evidence of God. Well, other people would go, that's evidence
of nature or evolution or you know. And and to me,
though I believe, I don't know what that means. I
don't believe in church as much as I believe in God.
(11:56):
It's not say church is bad. But I think, like
all groups, all organizations, or all businesses, anything, where there's
a group of people, there can be amazing, beautiful, genuine
people who really operate in love, and there can be
manipulative cunts. And that's what I think.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
That's what I know in the middle of this kind
of God conversation.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
But that's what I truly think. Now I don't know
I mean. But and again, this is not This is
not an instructional podcast. This is not a teaching podcast
in that sense. This is like me being the most real,
raw version of me talking about my beliefs that I
can be, which most people would never talk this way
(12:43):
publicly if they were me, and if they had those
beliefs and that But could I be wrong? Yes? Could
I be right, Yes, could I be partly right? Yes?
You know, so we don't know, and we tend to
believe and defend and fight for what we think is right,
not necessarily what we know is right right, So there's that.
(13:08):
And also, I think, you know, one of the things
that you talk about on your show, I talk about
on this We've talked about multiple times is how attractive
it is to be or how perhaps are what's the
word valuable, noble, humble, it is to be truly okay
(13:29):
with being wrong, like truly And if I'm being honest, well,
I've probably been wrong about as many things as I've
been right, maybe more so. Why now would I think,
at sixty one, having been making mistakes for my whole
life and getting things wrong for my whole life, that
I'm absolutely right about everything. Well, that's ego, that's arrogance,
(13:54):
that's shit attitude, that's being defensive. That's not a person
who really wants to learn and grow and evolve. That's
someone who wants to be right. That's someone who's addicted to,
you know, winning in a bad way. So for me,
it's like I have reasons that I've gone into. You know,
(14:17):
there have been many things in my life that have
happened that indicate to me that there is way more
to life and experience and what can be experienced and
what can be accessed, and what wisdom could be, and
what truth could be, and what knowledge could be beyond
(14:39):
the human brain. I think one of them, this is
someone doing a neuropsych degree PhD. I should say, you know,
one of the problems is that we think we're smarter
than we are. We think we are all knowing as
a species. I object to that wildly. I think compared
to other mammals and animals, we are in some ways
(15:05):
smarter and more evolved. But that depends on the metric
that you're using. Put me and a line in the jungle.
Who the fuck's winning? Not Fatty Harps, you know? Put Like,
it depends on what's the problem we're trying to solve,
you know, how can how well can you adapt and
survive in this situation or that context? Like we've built
(15:29):
for ourselves the most comfortable existence because of our capacity
to reason and think and solve problems, which is in
that way we are the smartest species. But you think
about other things and other ways, we are definitely not.
And so then when you zoom out a bit from
the brain and the mind and what we call logic
(15:51):
and reason and common sense, then you realize that there,
perhaps there is a whole universe of intelligence and wisdom
and truth and knowing to be accessed that doesn't fit
within the parameters of what we call logic or reason
(16:12):
or probability or possibility. I just think that we tell
ourselves what we want to believe because the other shit
scares us. And there are many, many, many things that
continue to be brought to light that are absolute and
true that not long ago we considered absolutely impossible. And
(16:36):
so as we know now that the things that we're
doing in twenty twenty five were not possible ten years ago,
and completely you know, some things twenty thirty forty years ago,
one hundred, two hundred years ago would have been considered
witchcraft or something like that, because in that time, with
(16:59):
the knowledge that those people had whatever of the thing was,
like I've spoken before, like people flying across the sky
in a metal tube. And so you've got a plane
which weighs hundreds of tons, and people that weigh however
many ton and then you put that in the sky. Well,
(17:20):
even a fucking feather can't stay in the sky, it
falls to the ground. You know, logically, back then that
makes no sense because they didn't have the understanding of
physics and thrust and power and aerodynamics that we now have.
So it depends on the time in human evolution and
(17:42):
the context, and also what we have been taught and
told and trained. So, yeah, that was very deep and
I did we didn't expect to go there, but keep going.
I feel like you've got another Ready, let's shelve the
other conversation. We'll do it later.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Yeah, how much do you think we have control over
choosing our beliefs and what comes into that process? At
what point do we get a level of control over
our beliefs?
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Okay, you've asked a lot of questions. That's in the
top three of smartest questions that you've ever asked me. Right,
So this is great, This is a great conversation I have.
So the answer is we have a lot of control,
but also at the same time, most of us don't
use that control or a lot of capacity to change
(18:36):
our beliefs. But one, you can't change your beliefs unless
you think perhaps they're flawed, and two unless you are
absolutely willing to be wrong and prepared to go I
was just wrong, no bullshit, no where you go, no excuses,
no rationale, just I was wrong. And then three to
be able to consider things that perhaps were at odds
(18:59):
with your previous belief. A very common one that I've
used on this show is my habit for thirty years
of teaching the food pyramid, because I thought that was
I thought that was gold standard science. I was taught
that was gold standard science. And then probably ten years ago,
(19:23):
maybe a little bit more, I heard the story of
ansel keys and how that model of eating came into being,
and I did some research and more research and asked
some questions and did deeper and deeper dive, and it
turns out that that particular idea or that proposal of
(19:43):
this is the best way to eat is wildly flawed.
Now I believe that, and so I was wrong. I'm
not mad at anyone. I don't blame anyone. I just
go I thought A. Turns out that A was wrong,
it's actually B. And so the moment that I know
something different, or I'm aware that there is information or
(20:07):
data or evidence which doesn't fit my belief, and I'm
not at least even willing to consider that. Well, that's
coming out a place of fear, fear of being embarrassed,
fear of looking stupid people think, fear of people thinking
less of me, fear of having to own up to something.
(20:29):
And none of that is in an interest to get
to the truth. That's all in an interest to protect
my ego and my bullshit and my reputation. And I mean,
I've said things on this podcast. Nothing springs to mind,
but there's probably one hundred things I've said on this
very show over the last eight years that one were
(20:51):
bullshit or partly bullshit, not intentionally, of course, But now
if I revisited that, I'm I think that that what
I said back then was foolish or not fully enlightened
or founded, you know. So the answer is we can
change our beliefs, but we need to first recognize what
(21:14):
are the beliefs that I currently have that hold me back,
How do they hinder me? And where did they come from?
Did I choose this belief or is this belief a
byproduct of who I've hung around and what I've paid
attention to, Because you know, we say you become the
(21:34):
average of the five, you know, that's kind of bro science.
But but there's definitely something in it. You know, the
chances of me becoming a Catholic, going to a Catholic
school and never anything else, and having Catholic friends, and
being in the Catholic Catholic system, and going to Mass
every Sunday and having Catholic parents and you know, nuns
and priests coming to our house for dinner on a
(21:55):
regular well, the chance of me being a Buddhist was zero.
The chances of me being atheist was zero. The chances
of me being an Anglican was zero. But then one
day you get to the point where you might question
something because you go, yeah, I know this is what
I'm meant to believe in, to believe in inverted commas,
but there's something in me that's going, yeah, that could
(22:18):
be bullshit. And the other part to this, which makes
it even harder to change beliefs, is we have a
weird sense of loyalty to our fellow believers, like we
live in an echo chamber of belief, so we get
trapped in confirmation bias. We only look for evidence or
(22:38):
data or stories or information that support our belief. So
is it possible to change our beliefs. Absolutely. Is it easy, No,
It's quite difficult, depending on you know. Also, some of
those beliefs are life shaping and life defining, an identity defining.
They're the hardest.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Making me think of in relation to these questions. What
made me think of that was this morning I was
training someone. This will sound weird, but it relates in
my head. Hopefully it makes sense. Training someone brand new
in boxing and teaching them how you hold yourself changes
your reaction. So when we teach boxing, you are changing.
(23:20):
You are changing your posture, and you're training a reaction
that is beyond your control. Because when something doesn't matter
how brave and tough and fear less in inverted commas
you are. When something's rocketing at your face before you
have a chance to choose your response, you react. And
(23:43):
if you're standing upright in your posture, your reaction will
be to pull back and lift up to get out
because your brain goes, fuck, We've got to get out
of here. If you hold your chin down and hold
a stance where you are in a forward motion, like
crouching like a tiger, and that same thing comes at
your face, your reaction because I've done this I've done
(24:05):
both of these, and I've changed them in a moment
in the same session and had different reactions. You will
you will slip the punch and you will likely aggress
your throwback. So it's got nothing to do about the
story of whether or not I, Oh, I'm so brave.
When someone punches me, I'll punch them back. That doesn't
come into it. So oh, I believe this. Like, so
(24:25):
it's what part of those beliefs? So did you? So
my question is do you feel like you chose God
or you erased the parts of the religious community that
you didn't connect with and you kept what was left behind.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Wow? Also good question. So so I'm gonna I'm the
first to put up my hand and say, like, I
realize that the way that I think is just the
way that I think. I don't confuse what I think
with absolute truth, right, I don't confuse my knowledge with wisdom.
(25:10):
But so for me, I was in the middle of
for for a number of years, multiple churches, you know,
maybe eight years, and this is after Catholicism, and I
just saw things to me that were out of alignment
with the teaching of the church. I remember my you know,
(25:35):
compared to some people. My theological knowledge is that two
out of ten compared to the average person, it's probably
pretty good. So, you know, when I see people doing
things which are totally out of alignment with what they
would typically say to others or preach or be seen
(25:57):
to be doing in a church situation, and I see
basically like fraudulent behavior, I'm like, that's just you pretending
that you're something. And then I see them basically when
they think no one's looking, being a different version. Right.
There's that that now, and that sounds judgmental. Well, I
(26:19):
don't mean that to be, but that's just that was
my observation, and I saw that many times. I also
saw people who when no one thought, when they thought
no one was watching, they were an angel, Like they
were doing just incredible stuff for others. Right. So, but
this is any group of people. It could be a synagogue,
it could be you know, a church, it could be
(26:43):
a school group. It could be you know Coole's where
you've got a bunch of people who work together. You
know you're going to get You're going to get a
really broad cross section of how people are and how
they behave, and how they think and how they choose,
and also how they are when people are watching, and
how they are when they think people are not what.
So I just found a lot of incongruence, which is,
(27:06):
you know, misalignment between what I was taught and told
and trained and what I considered to be the wisdom
of the Bible. I saw a lot of you know, divergence,
a lot of separation, and I kind of fell out
of love with Church. And I don't think I'm more
(27:28):
enlightened than them. They're still you know, I don't think
that at all. I think I still think I'm a
fuck up. You know. Sometimes sometimes I think I'm a
pretty decent human. And the truth is, I don't know.
Like that's why if I knew, I wouldn't have to
have faith, right, I don't know. I don't know what
there is. And I tried very hard. I tried very
(27:52):
hard to be self aware and realize that or think
about do I just believe this because this is familiar?
Do I just believe this because this is comfortable? And
I am pretty good at not doing that or being that.
In fact, a lot of the things that I believe
(28:15):
make my life harder in that I'm inherently selfish, and
you know, while I want to help people and love people,
and I truly do, I can be a selfish fuck,
you know. And I know that if I didn't have
the beliefs that I have, that I would not that
(28:38):
I would be. I don't think I'm a great person now,
but I would not be the person I am now.
I truly believe, and I've said this a hundred times,
I truly believe that if you can really try to
come from a place of love, whatever that is, with
that kindness or quality time or generosity or empathy or support,
(29:01):
you know that if you can truly try to come
from that perspective, and it's not to be selfless, because
that doesn't work, but it's to be less selfish, you know,
to have a purpose bigger than you, and a purpose
that you know, while I make good money, money is
not my reason for living. And so to try to,
(29:23):
you know, live those values which may or may not
be biblical, but to me, that's the thing. And I look,
I might find out one day, or Mary might find out.
If she goes quicker and she can email me from
heaven dot com hashtag no bullshit up here, she might
(29:44):
give me a quick insight. But you know, I think
I think it's just a really interesting thing to think
and think about. And I guess God, Heaven, Hell, eternity, life, death,
you know, different realms, you know, spiritual spirituality, spiritual insight,
(30:09):
spiritual wisdom. You know, there are all of these things
that we kind of have words for, but I don't
know that we fully understand them. And I and I
can't explain this. And this could be a byproduct of
my mind, or it could be something else, but I
know that the intention that I go into experiences with
(30:33):
and I'm not talking about buying my bananas, but if
I'm going to do a talk like I did one,
you know the other day in Meal Durro that we
spoke about, or or it could be something perhaps more
a little deeper, where I'm working with a whole group
for a day and it's really people who are ready
to change their life. I know that if I if
I get out of my own bullshit and ego and
(30:55):
get I get out of my planning, and I get
out of my research and I get am I to
do list, and I just you know, I'll pray a
little prayer and it might be something, you know, like
all of you and none of me. Like all of you,
none of me, you know, let me be a conduit
to the wisdom and the love and the knowledge, so
(31:18):
that I don't get in the way of what might
happen for these people today, you know, and that people
will go, oh my god, he's gone. No, I haven't gone.
I've always been like that. I've always been like that.
It's just I think sometimes we've got to be like
I try to be mindful of how wide I open
the door, because some people will go, oh, this is
(31:39):
fucking psychobabble, bullshit, spiritual bullshit. I'm out. And of course
to those people you know, of course, go find who
you connect with or what you connect with. And by
the way, could they could be right, I don't know,
but I think you you know, if you stand for nothing,
you'll fall for anything, so you've got to go. Look.
(32:02):
I could be wrong, but this is what I think,
This is what I believe, this is what works for me,
which is why I don't try to evangelize anyone, coerce anyone.
I'm not telling anyone they should believe in anything. I'm
telling you how it works for me, and I just
think that it is It is brave to be able
to go through life knowing that, or being comfortable with
(32:27):
the idea that you're going to be wrong a lot,
and you're going to be wrong about things that you
really do not want to be wrong about. But going
I was wrong, not Here's twenty reasons why I just
I was wrong. So One, if I misled you, I
apologize too, I didn't mean to. Three I'm going to
lean into this and see what I can learn and
(32:49):
see what also, see what I can learn beyond beyond
the internet, beyond the research, beyond the books, beyond the psychology.
I want to see what I can learn just by
being open, by being aware, by paying attention. I think
(33:09):
we can learn just by allowing whatever it is our brain,
our mind, our soul to be a conduit to the
wisdom that exists outside of what we think is knowledge.
This is deep, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I love it so much. This is one of my
favorite conversations. What do you think that your belief in
God gives you like protection, safety, connection, belonging, Like what
does it bring to you? And second to that, how
do you feel or do you think about how that?
How does that change or shape your behavior?
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Honestly, sometimes I don't want to believe in God. Hard
work be much easier to not to right, I don't
think about like I think if this is just how
I think. If you believe in God because you think
that's some kind of guarantee to something, you probably don't
really believe in God. It's kind of like, oh, well,
(34:09):
if I do this, then I won't go to hell
there it doesn't really work like that, like you genuinely
for me anyway, my understanding my belief is like sometimes
I'm mad at God. Sometimes I'm like, God, this is
I don't want to do this, Like I don't want
to do this. God's like, yeah, I don't care, you know,
don't care, Like what makes you come like what you're
(34:33):
comfortable with is not what I'm like. Let's say that
the Bible's real, and let's say that there was a
bloke called Jesus, and let's say that he did get
nailed to across on a hill called Calvary and died
an agonizing, slow, painful death. If all of that's true,
well that's I'm never going to deal with anything like that,
(34:59):
you know, Like that's the ultimate. Now obviously that's the
that's the Christian message, is that Jesus died for hour,
you know, John three sixteen, for God so love the
world that he gave. He's only begotten son, that whosoever
believes in him would not perish but have eternal life.
That's the salvation scripture. Right, And then I think about
(35:20):
you can't just if you go, well, I'm a Christian,
or if you go, I'm a Muslim, or if you
go I'm a Buddhist, or if you go I'm a Jew,
or if you go I'm a whatever it is, whatever
your theology is. You can't just pick and choose. You
can't go, yeah, I believe that bit. I don't believe
that bit, you know, or it's probably you know, it's
(35:45):
hard to let me say this better if you're picking
and choosing the insights, the wisdom, the scriptures that work
for you because you're you're okay to do that, and
you're comfortable to do that. Like I think the message
is that are the most empowering and the most relevant
for me are the ones I don't want to hear.
(36:06):
They're the ones I don't want to hear, you know,
Like remember that story I told you about me training
remember that which one Remember I told you that. Okay,
I've told this maybe two or three times, right, Yes,
So I prayed to God one day because I was
obsessed with my body and obsessed with training, and I
(36:28):
just I just started reading the Bible like I was
early twenties. I didn't know the front from the back, Genesis,
first Book, Revelation, last Book, or New Testament. I didn't
know where anything was. So I didn't I didn't know
one scripture. I couldn't have told you one scripture from
the Bible. Obviously, growing up as a Catholic, we weren't
encouraged to read the Bible, right, no heat or hate,
(36:50):
just that was my experience. So one day I just
I remember, there's sixty six books in the Bible, or
in the kind of typical there are a few different ones,
but most Bibles have sixty six books. And within all
of those books, which I guess you could in more
layman's terms, we might call them chapters, but they're called books,
(37:12):
and they have a bunch of different chapters within those
books and verses in those chapters. And you know, I
mean literally tens and tens and tens of thousands of
words in the Bible. And so one day I felt
that I felt that God was telling me that I
(37:34):
was obsessed with my body. I mean, this is me
kraigerfying it that that how I looked and what my
body was doing, and how big my muscles were, And
that was basically my God, because I was filled with
ego and I was insecure, and at that point in
my life, I got validation and approval and acceptance and
(37:56):
what I felt was love through what I looked like
and how well my body could perform. Right, So that's
very addictive when you were a fat, socially invisible kid
who got nothing but heat and hate because of his body.
Now you fast forward six seven years and I'm getting
(38:17):
all of this attention because my body is in good shape,
so attention. Not that I was, you know, spectacular, but
compared to what I look like when I was fourteen,
I was fucking Brad Pitt, right. But and while I
wanted to learn about not just God, I wanted to
(38:37):
learn about a different way about thinking about life and
about people and about existing and about like what is
life about working, making money and buying stuff and then
getting old and dying? Is that what life's about? Because
that's kind of what I thought most people thought life
was about. You know, get you get married between twenty
(38:57):
and thirty, have you know two point three kids, You
have a golden a Trevor station wagon, white pickup fence.
You do a job, you don't have a passion, You
do a job. You do that forty years. Then you
retire from the thing that you didn't love, but it
paid the bills, and then you get old and then
you get fucked. You might buy a caravan, you might
play goal four times a year, but you're fucked and
then you die. And I'm like, that was what I thought,
(39:21):
and I just was very interested in something else, and
I always had it's going to sound weird, but I
always had what I would call a god curiosity and
a god awareness. And even now it's sixty one, I
(39:43):
don't know. I don't know, but I'm telling you that,
you know that I've had for me And I don't
even like saying it because people think you're weird and
they're like, oh, he was so sensible until he did that, right,
I get it. But you know, if you believe me,
then you'll believe me when I tell you that. You know,
I sat in my car with that Bible, and I said, God,
(40:05):
if you want me to not train, you know you
want me to like I felt, I was being told
not to be basically a fathead obsessed with his own appearance,
right and body. And so I shut my eyes. I
didn't know where anything was, didn't know any of the books,
any of the chapters, any of the scriptures, any of
the verses. I didn't know Old Testament from you. I
(40:29):
opened the Bible with my eyes closed, and I put
my finger in and my prayer was, God, if you
want me to stop, you know, to change my life
in this way, let me know. And my finger was on.
My finger was at there was a tea and my
finger was just before the tea. And the word was the.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
A.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
No, sorry sorry, it was P. It was P. And
the word was physical. Right, So my here's the P
and my fingers at the start. And the scripture is
one Timothy four to eight and it says physical training
propheteth a little. This is in the King James version,
which is oldie world. I'll say it in more modern terms,
(41:13):
new international version maybe, which is physical training is of
some value, but train yourself in the things of God
like that was that was And my finger with my
eyes closed, found that out of thousands of thousands of words,
and that was the thing that I read. And then
(41:33):
I went directly from there into church. This was my
second week at a Bible kind of spirit fuelled Pentecostal church.
There was an old guy. For those who've heard this,
I apologize Pastor Milton, who was great, and I said
to him, I asked him like I knew the answer
because I'd found one scripture, but I wanted to hear
(41:55):
from him what he would say. And I said he
was a real theological and I said, Pastor, I work
in a gym. He didn't know me yet, he'd met
me briefly, but I said, I work in a gym.
I told him what I do. I didn't tell him
why I had this question. I said, my question to
you is is there a scripture in the Bible, the
whole Bible, front or back, you know, Old or New Testament,
(42:18):
that talks about like working out, like physical training. And
he goes, oh, let me think, let me think, and
he kind of he chews over it from maybe six
eight seconds and he goes, yeah, there's there's there's one
scripture he called everyone, dear one. He goes, yes, dear one,
there's there's one and it's it's one Timothy four eight
(42:40):
and it's you know, physical training, prophetess a little, but
train yourself onto the things of God. And I'm like,
I went white and I just went thank you, and
then I just walked away, you know. So And some
people will say, well, that could happen, that's a coincidence,
And I'm going to say to you, maybe maybe I
don't know. Do I have proof that that was God?
(43:02):
Of course I don't, but I have had many things
like that happen. Now. I believe that just like here's
my analogy. Do you believe that your body is always
sending you signals? Tiff? Yeah, yeah, So I believe that
our body is a biofeedback system and we are all
(43:25):
getting messages from our body. I also believe that most
people do not listen. It's not that the information is there.
It's not that the wisdom or the insight or the
understanding or the message is not there. It's just that
we're not open. Now, if you want to do something
that's a bit scary, go and pray to whoever or whatever,
(43:48):
just say God, or whoever or whatever you are, if
you are real in the next week, just show me something,
show me something and be honest, and then people will go, oh, yeah,
you're going to make something up with your mind. And
you know, people will always find a reason. And I
get it. I get it. I get it one hundred
percent get it. I'm pretty skeptical too, I trust pretty slowly.
(44:11):
I ask a thousand questions. But you would be surprised
a number of people who when you open yourself to
the possibility that there's knowledge or wisdom or truth to
be gleaned and access that doesn't come from the Internet
or a book or Brian right, then some amazing shit
(44:33):
can happen.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Do you remember, I'm sure I told you. Do you
remember that dream I had? And it was it was
some time after we had a similar conversation to this,
where I was I was asleep.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
Yeah, tell it.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
You'll probably remember I was. I was asleep, and then
I had this kind of this half vivid I think
I'm awake but not really kind of dreaming. There's a
silhouette and obviously I'm thinking we've had a conversation about
God or Jesus or whatever. And and in that kind
of semi half awake, vivid feeling. I've gone I've looked
(45:07):
at this silhouette this, and I've gone show me or
proved to me or something. And in my mind I
know that it was like it was like it was
God or Jesus or whatever. And a moment later, the
cat ran its right. So I'm in bed, the cat
(45:28):
runs and I hear it on the carpet. It runs
up and it jumps and it's got its face next
to mine, and I've gone into complete shock. And then
I opened my eyes and there's no cat there but
the cat. My cat doesn't have access to my so
my bedroom door shut and the cat's in a completely
different room. Wow, and my heart's racing. And I was
(45:50):
like that. But at that first, like I couldn't move
for a second when it was happening, and I was
just like, what the fuck was that?
Speaker 3 (45:59):
And how did you you laughter that?
Speaker 2 (46:01):
I just remember it being like, what the hell was that?
M and cure it, you know, yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
Yeah, oh look it's this stuff. You know. Maybe one day,
by the way, for everyone who thinks, oh he's lost it, well,
I've always felt like this, and I've always I think
a lot of you know that. But at the same time,
this doesn't mean I discount the brain or the mind.
I'm literally doing a PhD in the mind. I love it.
(46:31):
I'm fascinated with it all. And I'm also well aware
of placebos. I'm also well aware that we can manufacture
experiences without knowing it. I'm well aware of that. But yeah,
I just look, I am fascinated with what there is
to know, what there is to experience, what there is
(46:53):
to access beyond what we think there is. And I think,
you know, like I, I think I'm a relatively educated person,
and I'm I am I'm not completely objective, of course,
I don't think anyone is completely objective, because everyone's individual
experience is literally subjective. But I'm a lot more open
(47:17):
and willing to be wrong, and which is why I say.
I don't say this is how it is. I say
this is how I think it is. This is what
I've experienced and everything that when I tell you these things,
these are actual, literal events. These are not you know,
we're not talking about a vision I had or you know,
(47:38):
these are just things that happened. And you know, I
think the more that you like open the door to
collaborate and connect with and pay attention to your body.
For example, the grater your self awareness and self understanding
develops like you understand you you understanding what your body
(48:03):
is saying to your mind and your brain so that
you can go do something. And I think I think
it's quite that. And again this, you know, probably will
come in for criticism, but I think it's arrogant to
think that the only knowledge and truth and wisdom is
with humans' his like is just lives within the mind
(48:27):
of us Homo sapiens. We because what we do is
we go. You know, well that doesn't make sense, so
that can't be true. Well, how about that doesn't make
sense meaning I don't understand it, meaning it doesn't fit
within our scientific box that we've created for us all
(48:47):
to live in. But so did many things over the centuries,
right which now in the box, they're out of the box.
You know, how about it doesn't make sense to me,
But also it could be true. I just think that's
a better paradigm because we all say, oh, yeah, I
want to be teachable, I want to be able to unlearn,
(49:09):
I want to be open minded. Yeah, but this don't
contradict what I already believe. Well, that is the opposite
of humility and awareness and open mindedness. That is the opposite.
But that is my experience is that almost everyone who
says I'm open minded is not open minded because they're scared.
(49:30):
They're scared because they don't, you know, when you believe
something like it's very even when I go, I don't
know if there's a God. Now that's just the truth. Also,
the truth is I believe in a God. But believing
in something is not the same as knowing something. And
this bothers people too, this distinction. Well, literally, faith is
(49:54):
believing something you can't prove, Otherwise it wouldn't be called faith.
It to be called data evidence, not colledge science whatever.
But even when we do think we know stuff, i e.
The food pyramid is the best way to eat, we
often find out the thing that we knew in inverted
commas was actually a flawed assumption or flawed knowledge. You know.
(50:16):
So this is the and I you know, this is
one of my favorite conversations with you of all time,
you know, And I just think that you know, these
conversations where we're not trying to we're just thinking out loud,
We're not trying to twist any arms. We're not trying
to shape any belief systems. We're just going, fuck, who knows,
(50:38):
I don't know, And you know how many And I'm
not saying we're great, We're not great, but you know
how many people get on and they're trying to push
a certain agenda or idea or way, and were going, fuck,
we don't know, could be this, could be that. But hey,
this is what happened to me. Hey, this is what
I used to think, This is what I think now. Hey,
I used to be a little bit of a zealous
(50:59):
you know, I used to be a little bit of
you know, living in the Jesus echo chamber, and I
was just too scared to even open the door to
you know. And it wasn't that I became anti God
at all, clearly, It was just that there were there.
The stuff that I struggled with was not the God
stuff as much as the human stuff surrounding. Because every human,
(51:21):
even if they're a preacher, you know, or a rabbi
or a priest, or a pastor or a nun or whatever,
every human, every one of them is still a human
with all their own bullshit. You think that because someone's
a pastor, that they never tell a lie, that they
never have the ego, that they never manipulate people, that
(51:42):
they never fucking embrace the power. That they don't of
course they do. That's not because they're bad, because they're human.
And we have to stop putting people up on altars
and worshiping humans. For God's sake, stop worshiping people. You know, body,
there are people that are really good at stuff, and
(52:03):
they have big brands and you know, high profiles, and
good on them, good on them, but they ain't any
better than any of you listening to this. And I'm
not saying that as a feel good kind of fucking
you know vibe. They're not. And the problem is we
live in a culture where people think they are They're prettier,
(52:25):
they're smarter, they earn more dough, they're better. They're not better.
They're not better. And that's part of the problem is
that we compare ourselves to people. And you know, it's
a real challenge to be able to go who am
I beyond what I think and what I believe? And
you know, these things that I've held on to through
(52:46):
gritted teeth for so long, and when I do an
inventory on my beliefs and ideas and my thinking and
the consequences of all of that over the last ten
twenty years. Oh, I need to revisit what I think
and what I believe and why.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
When we had a recent conversation with I think it
was with doctor Jody, you mentioned sometimes you feel like
you haven't achieved enough. Yes, what's the context of that?
Speaker 3 (53:21):
Yeah, that's just I feel like, firstly, I'm very grateful
for my life, right, I don't.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
I don't think spiritual enough, or is that it is
that it is that a human enough or is that
more on the conversation we're having now, Yeah, No.
Speaker 3 (53:43):
I guess in I guess actually in both ways. But
like while I look back and I remember, I clearly
remember how I felt and who I was, you know,
as you know, a very mediocre teenager growing up in
the country, at least I thought I was. An I
probably still think I was quite mediocre. I don't think
I was a bad kid. I think I was a
(54:04):
good kid. But in one way, I look at what
I've done and some of the things I've achieved, and
I'm proud without being arrogant, But I also think I
could do more like I have this and even as
I get older, the this is going to sound arrogant,
(54:27):
but I'm going to say it. I feel like my
purpose is to help as many people as I can realize,
and by realize I mean understand their potential, but also
realize means to put interaction and to operationalize their own potential.
I feel like and to support people, and I feel
(54:51):
like that's what I'm meant to do, and I feel
like I'm meant to ah be a version of love
to others. You know, on Friday when I did this gig,
one of the guys who owns I won't say, I
won't embarrass anyone, but he got up and he was
(55:14):
saying something about me in the day. He's one of
the bosses, and he's a sweetheart, and he was up
in front of the group and you know, he started crying.
This is a boss at work in front of everyone,
standing next to me and in front of everyone. I
gave him a hug, right, And it's when we get
(55:35):
past the bullshit and we go I'm a man, I'm
in front of my team and I'm like, yes, mate,
you can cry, one hundred percent. You can cry. This
is not you being weak or bad or broken or inferior.
This is you being fucking real and raw and it's
so admirable, right, So yeah, I just think that my
(55:56):
purpose is to help people understand or find there's not
guided by me, but you know, supported by me, whatever
that is. And I don't think I've done that well enough.
I think I've done it, Okay, I want to do
more of it. And if if there's a God, if
God said to me, for the rest of your life,
(56:18):
I will bring audiences to you. But you've got to
live in next to poverty. I would say I'm in
next door to poverty. I'm in because I'm not interested
in you know, like a normal human, I'm interested in money,
but I'm not driven by money at all. And I
think you know that. It's like I'm not I don't
(56:40):
give a fuck about what people think of my financial
situation or you know. And it's not that I don't
care at all about money, of course I do, but
for me, money is just a resource. But yeah, I
would rather than I've said this before. If you say, hahps,
you can talk to ten thousand people tonight at Vodafone
Arena or fifty people across the road for ten grand
(57:03):
I'm going Vodaphone arena every time, even if there's no coverage,
even if there's no social media, even if no one
knows about it except the ten thousand people, even if
I get zero accolades that I'm in there. You know.
So I think because I had moderate success when I
was in my early thirties, and I had more stuff
(57:24):
than I ever thought i'd have, you know, multiple houses, cars,
all that shit. In the middle of all of the
stuff that I had, it's like I had this. It's
like almost God went, okay, so you got all the stuff.
Now what do you know? And I go, it's not
about the stuff. It's not about the stuff. Stuff's good.
But yeah, so for me, that that and also being
(57:49):
you know, like I think also too, you know, you
don't want to beat yourself up constantly, you know, and
go I'm shit, And I have a tendency to do that,
but I need to rain that in a little bit.
But yeah, I think being of service, being of value,
and building that love bank balance and that spiritual bank
(58:09):
balance and that kindness bank balance, and even if it
doesn't come back, even if it doesn't come back, you
know you, just like the New Testament. There's a scripture
which shamedly I can't quote right. I know the scripture,
I can't remember where it's from, but it says when
you give, like in other words, when you're giving to
(58:30):
Jesus was in the temple and he was talking to
the Pharisees and Sadducees and people that like some of
the religious, because what the religious would do back in
the day in the temples, would they some of them
would come in with like a big treasure chest of
gold and go look at me, look at me, right,
And it wasn't really about making a sacrifice to God.
(58:52):
It was really about getting social brownie points and all
of that. And he said, when you give, give secret
he said, don't let your left hand know what your
right hand's doing. And he pointed out this old lady
that was up the front of the synagogue and she
had one gold coin and that was all of her
(59:13):
wealth in the world, so that was one hundred percent
of her wealth, and he knew that, and he said, basically,
that's that lady. Is that lady's truly giving, like she's
given the most of anyone today, you know, because she
gave one hundred percent of what she had to give.
You know, so I feel like I've gotten back up
(59:35):
on the pulpit. I apologize everyone.
Speaker 2 (59:38):
One last God question and then you can wrap it Upright,
do you have how do you perceive personally if you
want to share, or how do you interpret other gods
of other religions? Are they an interpretation of the same?
Speaker 3 (59:57):
Oh that's all so really smart? Yeah, look, yeah, that
is a good question. So, you know, like the God
of the Jews, which is the God of the Old Testament.
Jews don't believe that the New Testament is. I think
(01:00:17):
they think it's, you know, a religious text that's interesting maybe,
but they don't they don't use it as a theological text.
They don't believe. I think I don't believe they think
it's inspired by God or it's the word of God.
Of course, Muslims call God Allah, you know, Christians in
(01:00:43):
the Hebrew God is Yahweh or Hashem. And you know,
so that is a question I can't answer. But what
I think is on some level, most of us are
talking about this, dude, right, And you know, as for Christians,
(01:01:08):
Christians religions that believe in multiple gods, I don't believe that,
but again, that's just what I believe and don't believe.
I don't believe that, but that's like, like I've said,
who knows, one day I might find out, Hey, that
are right, you were wrong, and I'll go my hands
in the air emoji fuck who knew? You know? You know?
(01:01:33):
It's like I don't know, I don't know, but you know,
So in terms of all of that, I like, what
do I hope out of this conversation? I don't know.
I just I hope that even if people just question
that maybe there is more than we think, and maybe
what we understand is just what we understand, it's not
(01:01:55):
what there is to be understood, you know, And that
that having thoughts or beliefs or values or not values, thoughts, beliefs, ideas, ideologies,
theologies that you have embraced that could be a bit
wrong or a lot wrong is okay. Is okay. It
(01:02:16):
is uncomfortable, but it is okay, you know. So, and
there are things within Christian doctrine that you know I
question and I go, oh, that's that's hard for me.
I don't know. I don't know. I actually don't. It's
not like, well, My opinion on that is, I go,
I don't fucking know. I don't know, you know, and
(01:02:41):
but it's it's I do know that when I open
myself up to uh be directed or informed or I
don't know, spoken to for one of a better word,
I know that generally it happens. And sometimes, honestly, sometimes
I just pull the curve down and put the you know,
(01:03:03):
closed sign on the door, and I shut myself down
from God. You know, I'm like, don't want to hear,
don't want to hear, don't want to hear because I
know what I'm going to be told and I don't
want to deal with it. Yeah, so I'm selfish. Yeah
for sure.
Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Next time you're having a chat to him, can you
just tell him to ease up on the whole cat
stuff and just come and have a chat with me,
But don't ask me.
Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
Ask him one if he's real. If he's real, don't
be scared. You know. There is a scripture that says
fear God. It's one of the shortest scriptures in the Bible.
Another one is Jesus wept. It's like these two word scriptures. Anyway,
what did I I heard this scripture? I was thinking
(01:03:47):
about this morning. It is. They use this a lot
with people who I don't like war, by the way,
but soldiers that go to fight for their country. At
their funerals, they often have this scripture. It's I Sire
six eight, which is from the Old Testament, and it
(01:04:08):
says M and the Lord said, who will I send?
Who will go? And I said, I am here, I
will go. You know, I'm like, oh, And when I
hear that, I'm like, because sometimes the things that God
(01:04:29):
wants you to do, if there's a God, they are
not the things you want to do. Like you don't
want to put yourself in the middle of shits or
chaos or pain or uncertainty. But I just think that
not indifferent to you know, just developing resilience. You know,
that's sometimes opening that door that doesn't make sense to you.
(01:04:52):
Sometimes eventually it makes the most sense, the most sense.
It goes from making no sense to all the sense.
You know. Wow, I did not expect this conversation tonight,
and I don't think we're going to put it up tiff.
Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
Bullshit. No, I loved it. This is my favorite. I mean,
talk about bloody dead lifts and shit again.
Speaker 3 (01:05:18):
And yeah, well, there we go. God took. God hijacked
the program. God went, hey, yeah, God went, well, you
think you're talking about all that superficial. I was going
to swear then, but I'm pretty sure God doesn't swear.
But anyway, the show that God hijacked, that's great. All right, everyone,
(01:05:49):
love your gutss, love your gutss, and you know, let
us know what you think. By the way, if you
hated it, that's okay, let us know. Go I hated it,
go to the New Project facebook page. Or if you
liked it, or you found it interesting or helpful or unhelpful,
whatever you found it, that's okay. That's okay. Uh say
(01:06:10):
goodbye fair but TIF thanks im in oh sister loving
the Lord's wrong. I don't want to be.
Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
Right, she said, it's now never. I got fighting in
my blood
Speaker 3 (01:06:31):
Got it, got it,
She said, it's now never. I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
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(00:29):
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reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
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Speaker 3 (00:51):
I'll tell you what everyone before we get underway. I
feel intimidated. I feel undervalued, underappreciated. I'm gonna be honest.
I know Tip's hilarious and lovable and charming and charismatic
on air and you won't believe this, but off air,
fucking straight up bully, straight up bully, yells at me,
(01:13):
bosses me around, and you can imagine how fragile I am.
I mean, have I mentioned how old I am? My
back a lot of stuff, But does she give a fuck.
Oh no, no, but now right, she'll talk. Now, she'd
be all love and light and unicorns and fucking Disneyland,
right to just woo you in. But once that fucking
(01:36):
microphone goes off, she's fucking Genghis calm, fucking annihilates me. Hello, Genghish,
I just spewed in my mouth. Fuck. Um, you know
you're bossy? Right? You do know that?
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Do you?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
You know how bossy you are. I did point out
to her that I'm the actual boss, but she's like,
you're not. The hang up, you're not, which sadly is true.
I don't know how I achieved that, but somehow I
work for her, which is I need a psychologist.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Oh hang on, very good at being bossed around, am I.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
You're fucking terrible. I don't want to boss you around.
It just sometimes you go to be hey, just wait on,
wait a fucking minute. It's not a yeah. I'm like,
we're not married. You can't talk to me like that.
And on top of that, you're honor I'm your boss.
You're like, nah, you're not. I'm like all right then,
(02:42):
all right. Uh, it's someday everyone. It's twenty five to
six in the PM. It's it's been an interesting day
in Melbs. It's been cold, it's been warm, it's been
fucking still, it's been gaale force winds, it's been all
of it's wherever you are in the world, we have
Last time I look, we had listeners in nearly ninety
(03:03):
countries some of those. When I do look at the stats,
it's like four people in Zambia, So to you guys
shout out, So not a lot of people from their listening,
but the four of you fucking thinks if you could
spread the word a bit. I mean, you know, look,
I know you've got other stuff on. You probably got kids,
(03:24):
you've probably got a job, but maybe as your third
priority spreading the typ gospel and if you could because
we're not really crushing it in Zambia, but so if
you could help out, that would be much appreciated. Over
and out, love Harps.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Does everyone realize why I have to be so bossy?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
A child? I am a child, I'm Mary's child. Yeah,
Mum was telling me. I was just on the phone, Mum.
God bless whenever anyone that I know is not well,
Like even if Mom doesn't numb, she got she's straight up.
I'll pray for them. But that's Mary. I'll pray for them.
(04:12):
And what's their name again? I go tell them their name?
All right, I'll pray for them. I might light a
candle for them, depends on if I'm at church or not,
but I'll send up a couple of hail Mary's. And
then our father. I'm like, Mom, that will be good.
You're pretty much God's right hand woman. So I will
tell them. And do you know when I tell people
that my mama's praying for them, and I'm not even joking, right,
(04:36):
it's not there's not a gag coming. Yeah, they some
people get a bit teary. I'm like, no, she really
is actually praying for you. And they're like, oh my god,
that is so and I go and she's got enough
of her own shit, so I don't know why the
fuck she's praying for you, but anyway she is. She's
such a good human. My mom. Yeah, I'll put them
(04:58):
on my list. What's their name? She's got a list,
got a list, God bless her. I'm like, mamam, on
that list. She's like, cool, you. She didn't say fuck.
She's like, you're the constant. You're never offered. But not
in an encouraging way. You know, you need all the
(05:18):
help you can fucking get way, you know, so you know,
if you ever do you ever need some Mary prayers,
anyone hit me up t yp podcast, face facey page,
I'll get married to whack you on the can't hurt,
can't hurt, That's what I think. Can't hurt? You know
what else I think? And I know this is not
what we're talking about, But like my mum's faith, now,
(05:45):
I don't know, is there a God. I grew up
believing there's a God. We don't know. That's why we
call it faith, not knowledge or evidence or data, you know,
but my mum, My mum's pretty short, right, But what
I love is that my mum's faith and her belief
and her prayer and her going to church. Now, whether
or not it's one hundred percent legit, and it's all
(06:06):
everything that she was taught and told and trained to
believe is true, or perhaps some of it or none
of it, it doesn't even matter to me because it
makes her better, It makes her calm or calmer, she
can worry, and it's like it's very very much a
positive in her life. So whether or not I agree
(06:28):
or don't agree, or we align on things or don't
align on things. To me, matters zero. I just look
back and I go, all right, So my mum does
this thing. She has this way of being and living
and believing, and she has all these little rituals and
rules and habits. What's the net result. Well, the net result,
(06:48):
Harps is she's way better than if she didn't have that,
because it gives her a sense of calm and peace
and takes away anxiety. Like I don't think because she's
nearly died a few times with cancer and a heart attack.
Three times cancer, one time heart attack. She doesn't you
know what she said to me the other day, said
(07:11):
we'll talk about her license. She's just got her license
renewed for two years, right, and she goes, well, that'll
do me. I'll be done by then, like I'll be dead,
she's like. But she doesn't go. Oh, She's like, well,
I won't be here in two years, which she probably will.
But you know, she's like, two years is good, Like
that will see me out, she goes. And it's funny
(07:33):
because she has no apparent fear of dying. Dad, on
the other hand, he's probably I don't think he's terrified,
but I think he's more regular, you know, more normal.
He doesn't like talking about it at all, but Mum's
constantly saying to me something like not bringing it up
for the sake, but just in conversation. She'll go, So
(07:54):
when I go to God, make sure you do this.
Make sure you remember that right, because I'm the only one.
There's no kids, there's no grandkids, there's no siblings, there's
just Fatty Harps tells me so much shit to remember.
I'm like, can you write a list before you go
to God, because there's a lot of shit that I
need to do. She goes, I have a list.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, so, but of course she's not scared because God
saved her receipt up front.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Well, you think about what I mean, what my mum
believes is that heaven's better than here, and she doesn't
like she truly believes that. So, you know, apart from
the normal mortal human fear of dying, you know, she's
pretty pretty comfy with it. So good for her. Anyway,
(08:42):
Enough about Mary, Well, I'll.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Got one more question. When you went from hardcore preaching
in the street to I'm not sure about this God business,
that I've been talking about my whole life. Did you
share that with Mary? And what did she think?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Sure? Didn't? Short did? No, No, no, look I didn't. Okay,
what'sn't preaching in the street. But I was. I was
for those three of you don't know. So I did
spend quite a few years in an evangelical Pentecostal Praise
the Lord Church, and and yeah, part of that involved
(09:19):
like me being involved in different ministries and preaching literally
you know, from the altar, reading teaching from the Bible. Yeah,
all of the you know, I'm not talking about the
casual weekend Christian. The I wear a tracksuit. Therefore, I'm
an athlete kind of Christian. You know, look at me.
(09:41):
I own attracts it. I'm an athlete. No, you just
don't attract it. You know, there's people who call themselves things,
and then there's people who do all the work that's
required to actually be that. And I was, like, I was,
you know, fully immersed in my belief in my faith.
And it's not like I went, I don't believe in God.
(10:04):
And if you ask me, now, do I believe in
God or do I believe in Let's just go with
do I believe in God. My answer is yes, Can
I prove that there's a God? No? Am I trying
to convince anyone that there's a God? No Am I
trying to manipulate, coerce, preach, evangelize to any particular person. No?
Could I be wrong? Yes? And this is the whole
(10:28):
you know, if we are. It's very hard to have
a hard wired belief and also be open minded because
when you go, oh, this is the one true Church,
the one true God, the one true doctrine, the one
true theology, you're also saying that everything that doesn't align
with what I believe is wrong. Now that to me
(10:51):
makes no sense. Do I believe that I could be
right about some things and wrong about lots of things? Yes?
I believe that could everything I've ever thought and been
taught about, you know, all things God? Could all of
it be wrong? Yes? Am I comfortable with that kind
(11:13):
of You know, it's like I it's very difficult to
talk about. Well, it's not difficult, but it's very hard
to be you know, very have a very very strong
belief about something you literally cannot prove and also say,
by the way, I'm super open minded and objective. Well,
you can't be both. You can't have a hard line
(11:35):
belief about something for which you have no evidence, right,
And people will go, ah, you know the trees, that's
evidence of God. Well, other people would go, that's evidence
of nature or evolution or you know. And and to me,
though I believe, I don't know what that means. I
don't believe in church as much as I believe in God.
(11:56):
It's not say church is bad. But I think, like
all groups, all organizations, or all businesses, anything, where there's
a group of people, there can be amazing, beautiful, genuine
people who really operate in love, and there can be
manipulative cunts. And that's what I think.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
That's what I know in the middle of this kind
of God conversation.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
But that's what I truly think. Now I don't know
I mean. But and again, this is not This is
not an instructional podcast. This is not a teaching podcast
in that sense. This is like me being the most real,
raw version of me talking about my beliefs that I
can be, which most people would never talk this way
(12:43):
publicly if they were me, and if they had those
beliefs and that But could I be wrong? Yes? Could
I be right, Yes, could I be partly right? Yes?
You know, so we don't know, and we tend to
believe and defend and fight for what we think is right,
not necessarily what we know is right right, So there's that.
(13:08):
And also, I think, you know, one of the things
that you talk about on your show, I talk about
on this We've talked about multiple times is how attractive
it is to be or how perhaps are what's the
word valuable, noble, humble, it is to be truly okay
(13:29):
with being wrong, like truly And if I'm being honest, well,
I've probably been wrong about as many things as I've
been right, maybe more so. Why now would I think,
at sixty one, having been making mistakes for my whole
life and getting things wrong for my whole life, that
I'm absolutely right about everything. Well, that's ego, that's arrogance,
(13:54):
that's shit attitude, that's being defensive. That's not a person
who really wants to learn and grow and evolve. That's
someone who wants to be right. That's someone who's addicted to,
you know, winning in a bad way. So for me,
it's like I have reasons that I've gone into. You know,
(14:17):
there have been many things in my life that have
happened that indicate to me that there is way more
to life and experience and what can be experienced and
what can be accessed, and what wisdom could be, and
what truth could be, and what knowledge could be beyond
(14:39):
the human brain. I think one of them, this is
someone doing a neuropsych degree PhD. I should say, you know,
one of the problems is that we think we're smarter
than we are. We think we are all knowing as
a species. I object to that wildly. I think compared
to other mammals and animals, we are in some ways
(15:05):
smarter and more evolved. But that depends on the metric
that you're using. Put me and a line in the jungle.
Who the fuck's winning? Not Fatty Harps, you know? Put Like,
it depends on what's the problem we're trying to solve,
you know, how can how well can you adapt and
survive in this situation or that context? Like we've built
(15:29):
for ourselves the most comfortable existence because of our capacity
to reason and think and solve problems, which is in
that way we are the smartest species. But you think
about other things and other ways, we are definitely not.
And so then when you zoom out a bit from
the brain and the mind and what we call logic
(15:51):
and reason and common sense, then you realize that there,
perhaps there is a whole universe of intelligence and wisdom
and truth and knowing to be accessed that doesn't fit
within the parameters of what we call logic or reason
(16:12):
or probability or possibility. I just think that we tell
ourselves what we want to believe because the other shit
scares us. And there are many, many, many things that
continue to be brought to light that are absolute and
true that not long ago we considered absolutely impossible. And
(16:36):
so as we know now that the things that we're
doing in twenty twenty five were not possible ten years ago,
and completely you know, some things twenty thirty forty years ago,
one hundred, two hundred years ago would have been considered
witchcraft or something like that, because in that time, with
(16:59):
the knowledge that those people had whatever of the thing was,
like I've spoken before, like people flying across the sky
in a metal tube. And so you've got a plane
which weighs hundreds of tons, and people that weigh however
many ton and then you put that in the sky. Well,
(17:20):
even a fucking feather can't stay in the sky, it
falls to the ground. You know, logically, back then that
makes no sense because they didn't have the understanding of
physics and thrust and power and aerodynamics that we now have.
So it depends on the time in human evolution and
(17:42):
the context, and also what we have been taught and
told and trained. So, yeah, that was very deep and
I did we didn't expect to go there, but keep going.
I feel like you've got another Ready, let's shelve the
other conversation. We'll do it later.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Yeah, how much do you think we have control over
choosing our beliefs and what comes into that process? At
what point do we get a level of control over
our beliefs?
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Okay, you've asked a lot of questions. That's in the
top three of smartest questions that you've ever asked me. Right,
So this is great, This is a great conversation I have.
So the answer is we have a lot of control,
but also at the same time, most of us don't
use that control or a lot of capacity to change
(18:36):
our beliefs. But one, you can't change your beliefs unless
you think perhaps they're flawed, and two unless you are
absolutely willing to be wrong and prepared to go I
was just wrong, no bullshit, no where you go, no excuses,
no rationale, just I was wrong. And then three to
be able to consider things that perhaps were at odds
(18:59):
with your previous belief. A very common one that I've
used on this show is my habit for thirty years
of teaching the food pyramid, because I thought that was
I thought that was gold standard science. I was taught
that was gold standard science. And then probably ten years ago,
(19:23):
maybe a little bit more, I heard the story of
ansel keys and how that model of eating came into being,
and I did some research and more research and asked
some questions and did deeper and deeper dive, and it
turns out that that particular idea or that proposal of
(19:43):
this is the best way to eat is wildly flawed.
Now I believe that, and so I was wrong. I'm
not mad at anyone. I don't blame anyone. I just
go I thought A. Turns out that A was wrong,
it's actually B. And so the moment that I know
something different, or I'm aware that there is information or
(20:07):
data or evidence which doesn't fit my belief, and I'm
not at least even willing to consider that. Well, that's
coming out a place of fear, fear of being embarrassed,
fear of looking stupid people think, fear of people thinking
less of me, fear of having to own up to something.
(20:29):
And none of that is in an interest to get
to the truth. That's all in an interest to protect
my ego and my bullshit and my reputation. And I mean,
I've said things on this podcast. Nothing springs to mind,
but there's probably one hundred things I've said on this
very show over the last eight years that one were
(20:51):
bullshit or partly bullshit, not intentionally, of course, But now
if I revisited that, I'm I think that that what
I said back then was foolish or not fully enlightened
or founded, you know. So the answer is we can
change our beliefs, but we need to first recognize what
(21:14):
are the beliefs that I currently have that hold me back,
How do they hinder me? And where did they come from?
Did I choose this belief or is this belief a
byproduct of who I've hung around and what I've paid
attention to, Because you know, we say you become the
(21:34):
average of the five, you know, that's kind of bro science.
But but there's definitely something in it. You know, the
chances of me becoming a Catholic, going to a Catholic
school and never anything else, and having Catholic friends, and
being in the Catholic Catholic system, and going to Mass
every Sunday and having Catholic parents and you know, nuns
and priests coming to our house for dinner on a
(21:55):
regular well, the chance of me being a Buddhist was zero.
The chances of me being atheist was zero. The chances
of me being an Anglican was zero. But then one
day you get to the point where you might question
something because you go, yeah, I know this is what
I'm meant to believe in, to believe in inverted commas,
but there's something in me that's going, yeah, that could
(22:18):
be bullshit. And the other part to this, which makes
it even harder to change beliefs, is we have a
weird sense of loyalty to our fellow believers, like we
live in an echo chamber of belief, so we get
trapped in confirmation bias. We only look for evidence or
(22:38):
data or stories or information that support our belief. So
is it possible to change our beliefs. Absolutely. Is it easy, No,
It's quite difficult, depending on you know. Also, some of
those beliefs are life shaping and life defining, an identity defining.
They're the hardest.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Making me think of in relation to these questions. What
made me think of that was this morning I was
training someone. This will sound weird, but it relates in
my head. Hopefully it makes sense. Training someone brand new
in boxing and teaching them how you hold yourself changes
your reaction. So when we teach boxing, you are changing.
(23:20):
You are changing your posture, and you're training a reaction
that is beyond your control. Because when something doesn't matter
how brave and tough and fear less in inverted commas
you are. When something's rocketing at your face before you
have a chance to choose your response, you react. And
(23:43):
if you're standing upright in your posture, your reaction will
be to pull back and lift up to get out
because your brain goes, fuck, We've got to get out
of here. If you hold your chin down and hold
a stance where you are in a forward motion, like
crouching like a tiger, and that same thing comes at
your face, your reaction because I've done this I've done
(24:05):
both of these, and I've changed them in a moment
in the same session and had different reactions. You will
you will slip the punch and you will likely aggress
your throwback. So it's got nothing to do about the
story of whether or not I, Oh, I'm so brave.
When someone punches me, I'll punch them back. That doesn't
come into it. So oh, I believe this. Like, so
(24:25):
it's what part of those beliefs? So did you? So
my question is do you feel like you chose God
or you erased the parts of the religious community that
you didn't connect with and you kept what was left behind.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Wow? Also good question. So so I'm gonna I'm the
first to put up my hand and say, like, I
realize that the way that I think is just the
way that I think. I don't confuse what I think
with absolute truth, right, I don't confuse my knowledge with wisdom.
(25:10):
But so for me, I was in the middle of
for for a number of years, multiple churches, you know,
maybe eight years, and this is after Catholicism, and I
just saw things to me that were out of alignment
with the teaching of the church. I remember my you know,
(25:35):
compared to some people. My theological knowledge is that two
out of ten compared to the average person, it's probably
pretty good. So, you know, when I see people doing
things which are totally out of alignment with what they
would typically say to others or preach or be seen
(25:57):
to be doing in a church situation, and I see
basically like fraudulent behavior, I'm like, that's just you pretending
that you're something. And then I see them basically when
they think no one's looking, being a different version. Right.
There's that that now, and that sounds judgmental. Well, I
(26:19):
don't mean that to be, but that's just that was
my observation, and I saw that many times. I also
saw people who when no one thought, when they thought
no one was watching, they were an angel, Like they
were doing just incredible stuff for others. Right. So, but
this is any group of people. It could be a synagogue,
it could be you know, a church, it could be
(26:43):
a school group. It could be you know Coole's where
you've got a bunch of people who work together. You
know you're going to get You're going to get a
really broad cross section of how people are and how
they behave, and how they think and how they choose,
and also how they are when people are watching, and
how they are when they think people are not what.
So I just found a lot of incongruence, which is,
(27:06):
you know, misalignment between what I was taught and told
and trained and what I considered to be the wisdom
of the Bible. I saw a lot of you know, divergence,
a lot of separation, and I kind of fell out
of love with Church. And I don't think I'm more
(27:28):
enlightened than them. They're still you know, I don't think
that at all. I think I still think I'm a
fuck up. You know. Sometimes sometimes I think I'm a
pretty decent human. And the truth is, I don't know.
Like that's why if I knew, I wouldn't have to
have faith, right, I don't know. I don't know what
there is. And I tried very hard. I tried very
(27:52):
hard to be self aware and realize that or think
about do I just believe this because this is familiar?
Do I just believe this because this is comfortable? And
I am pretty good at not doing that or being that.
In fact, a lot of the things that I believe
(28:15):
make my life harder in that I'm inherently selfish, and
you know, while I want to help people and love people,
and I truly do, I can be a selfish fuck,
you know. And I know that if I didn't have
the beliefs that I have, that I would not that
(28:38):
I would be. I don't think I'm a great person now,
but I would not be the person I am now.
I truly believe, and I've said this a hundred times,
I truly believe that if you can really try to
come from a place of love, whatever that is, with
that kindness or quality time or generosity or empathy or support,
(29:01):
you know that if you can truly try to come
from that perspective, and it's not to be selfless, because
that doesn't work, but it's to be less selfish, you know,
to have a purpose bigger than you, and a purpose
that you know, while I make good money, money is
not my reason for living. And so to try to,
(29:23):
you know, live those values which may or may not
be biblical, but to me, that's the thing. And I look,
I might find out one day, or Mary might find out.
If she goes quicker and she can email me from
heaven dot com hashtag no bullshit up here, she might
(29:44):
give me a quick insight. But you know, I think
I think it's just a really interesting thing to think
and think about. And I guess God, Heaven, Hell, eternity, life, death,
you know, different realms, you know, spiritual spirituality, spiritual insight,
(30:09):
spiritual wisdom. You know, there are all of these things
that we kind of have words for, but I don't
know that we fully understand them. And I and I
can't explain this. And this could be a byproduct of
my mind, or it could be something else, but I
know that the intention that I go into experiences with
(30:33):
and I'm not talking about buying my bananas, but if
I'm going to do a talk like I did one,
you know the other day in Meal Durro that we
spoke about, or or it could be something perhaps more
a little deeper, where I'm working with a whole group
for a day and it's really people who are ready
to change their life. I know that if I if
I get out of my own bullshit and ego and
(30:55):
get I get out of my planning, and I get
out of my research and I get am I to
do list, and I just you know, I'll pray a
little prayer and it might be something, you know, like
all of you and none of me. Like all of you,
none of me, you know, let me be a conduit
to the wisdom and the love and the knowledge, so
(31:18):
that I don't get in the way of what might
happen for these people today, you know, and that people
will go, oh my god, he's gone. No, I haven't gone.
I've always been like that. I've always been like that.
It's just I think sometimes we've got to be like
I try to be mindful of how wide I open
the door, because some people will go, oh, this is
(31:39):
fucking psychobabble, bullshit, spiritual bullshit. I'm out. And of course
to those people you know, of course, go find who
you connect with or what you connect with. And by
the way, could they could be right, I don't know,
but I think you you know, if you stand for nothing,
you'll fall for anything, so you've got to go. Look.
(32:02):
I could be wrong, but this is what I think,
This is what I believe, this is what works for me,
which is why I don't try to evangelize anyone, coerce anyone.
I'm not telling anyone they should believe in anything. I'm
telling you how it works for me, and I just
think that it is It is brave to be able
to go through life knowing that, or being comfortable with
(32:27):
the idea that you're going to be wrong a lot,
and you're going to be wrong about things that you
really do not want to be wrong about. But going
I was wrong, not Here's twenty reasons why I just
I was wrong. So One, if I misled you, I
apologize too, I didn't mean to. Three I'm going to
lean into this and see what I can learn and
(32:49):
see what also, see what I can learn beyond beyond
the internet, beyond the research, beyond the books, beyond the psychology.
I want to see what I can learn just by
being open, by being aware, by paying attention. I think
(33:09):
we can learn just by allowing whatever it is our brain,
our mind, our soul to be a conduit to the
wisdom that exists outside of what we think is knowledge.
This is deep, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I love it so much. This is one of my
favorite conversations. What do you think that your belief in
God gives you like protection, safety, connection, belonging, Like what
does it bring to you? And second to that, how
do you feel or do you think about how that?
How does that change or shape your behavior?
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Honestly, sometimes I don't want to believe in God. Hard
work be much easier to not to right, I don't
think about like I think if this is just how
I think. If you believe in God because you think
that's some kind of guarantee to something, you probably don't
really believe in God. It's kind of like, oh, well,
(34:09):
if I do this, then I won't go to hell
there it doesn't really work like that, like you genuinely
for me anyway, my understanding my belief is like sometimes
I'm mad at God. Sometimes I'm like, God, this is
I don't want to do this, Like I don't want
to do this. God's like, yeah, I don't care, you know,
don't care, Like what makes you come like what you're
(34:33):
comfortable with is not what I'm like. Let's say that
the Bible's real, and let's say that there was a
bloke called Jesus, and let's say that he did get
nailed to across on a hill called Calvary and died
an agonizing, slow, painful death. If all of that's true,
well that's I'm never going to deal with anything like that,
(34:59):
you know, Like that's the ultimate. Now obviously that's the
that's the Christian message, is that Jesus died for hour,
you know, John three sixteen, for God so love the
world that he gave. He's only begotten son, that whosoever
believes in him would not perish but have eternal life.
That's the salvation scripture. Right, And then I think about
(35:20):
you can't just if you go, well, I'm a Christian,
or if you go, I'm a Muslim, or if you
go I'm a Buddhist, or if you go I'm a Jew,
or if you go I'm a whatever it is, whatever
your theology is. You can't just pick and choose. You
can't go, yeah, I believe that bit. I don't believe
that bit, you know, or it's probably you know, it's
(35:45):
hard to let me say this better if you're picking
and choosing the insights, the wisdom, the scriptures that work
for you because you're you're okay to do that, and
you're comfortable to do that. Like I think the message
is that are the most empowering and the most relevant
for me are the ones I don't want to hear.
(36:06):
They're the ones I don't want to hear, you know,
Like remember that story I told you about me training
remember that which one Remember I told you that. Okay,
I've told this maybe two or three times, right, Yes,
So I prayed to God one day because I was
obsessed with my body and obsessed with training, and I
(36:28):
just I just started reading the Bible like I was
early twenties. I didn't know the front from the back, Genesis,
first Book, Revelation, last Book, or New Testament. I didn't
know where anything was. So I didn't I didn't know
one scripture. I couldn't have told you one scripture from
the Bible. Obviously, growing up as a Catholic, we weren't
encouraged to read the Bible, right, no heat or hate,
(36:50):
just that was my experience. So one day I just
I remember, there's sixty six books in the Bible, or
in the kind of typical there are a few different ones,
but most Bibles have sixty six books. And within all
of those books, which I guess you could in more
layman's terms, we might call them chapters, but they're called books,
(37:12):
and they have a bunch of different chapters within those
books and verses in those chapters. And you know, I
mean literally tens and tens and tens of thousands of
words in the Bible. And so one day I felt
that I felt that God was telling me that I
(37:34):
was obsessed with my body. I mean, this is me
kraigerfying it that that how I looked and what my
body was doing, and how big my muscles were, And
that was basically my God, because I was filled with
ego and I was insecure, and at that point in
my life, I got validation and approval and acceptance and
(37:56):
what I felt was love through what I looked like
and how well my body could perform. Right, So that's
very addictive when you were a fat, socially invisible kid
who got nothing but heat and hate because of his body.
Now you fast forward six seven years and I'm getting
(38:17):
all of this attention because my body is in good shape,
so attention. Not that I was, you know, spectacular, but
compared to what I look like when I was fourteen,
I was fucking Brad Pitt, right. But and while I
wanted to learn about not just God, I wanted to
(38:37):
learn about a different way about thinking about life and
about people and about existing and about like what is
life about working, making money and buying stuff and then
getting old and dying? Is that what life's about? Because
that's kind of what I thought most people thought life
was about. You know, get you get married between twenty
(38:57):
and thirty, have you know two point three kids, You
have a golden a Trevor station wagon, white pickup fence.
You do a job, you don't have a passion, You
do a job. You do that forty years. Then you
retire from the thing that you didn't love, but it
paid the bills, and then you get old and then
you get fucked. You might buy a caravan, you might
play goal four times a year, but you're fucked and
then you die. And I'm like, that was what I thought,
(39:21):
and I just was very interested in something else, and
I always had it's going to sound weird, but I
always had what I would call a god curiosity and
a god awareness. And even now it's sixty one, I
(39:43):
don't know. I don't know, but I'm telling you that,
you know that I've had for me And I don't
even like saying it because people think you're weird and
they're like, oh, he was so sensible until he did that, right,
I get it. But you know, if you believe me,
then you'll believe me when I tell you that. You know,
I sat in my car with that Bible, and I said, God,
(40:05):
if you want me to not train, you know you
want me to like I felt, I was being told
not to be basically a fathead obsessed with his own appearance,
right and body. And so I shut my eyes. I
didn't know where anything was, didn't know any of the books,
any of the chapters, any of the scriptures, any of
the verses. I didn't know Old Testament from you. I
(40:29):
opened the Bible with my eyes closed, and I put
my finger in and my prayer was, God, if you
want me to stop, you know, to change my life
in this way, let me know. And my finger was on.
My finger was at there was a tea and my
finger was just before the tea. And the word was the.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
A.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
No, sorry sorry, it was P. It was P. And
the word was physical. Right, So my here's the P
and my fingers at the start. And the scripture is
one Timothy four to eight and it says physical training
propheteth a little. This is in the King James version,
which is oldie world. I'll say it in more modern terms,
(41:13):
new international version maybe, which is physical training is of
some value, but train yourself in the things of God
like that was that was And my finger with my
eyes closed, found that out of thousands of thousands of words,
and that was the thing that I read. And then
(41:33):
I went directly from there into church. This was my
second week at a Bible kind of spirit fuelled Pentecostal church.
There was an old guy. For those who've heard this,
I apologize Pastor Milton, who was great, and I said
to him, I asked him like I knew the answer
because I'd found one scripture, but I wanted to hear
(41:55):
from him what he would say. And I said he
was a real theological and I said, Pastor, I work
in a gym. He didn't know me yet, he'd met
me briefly, but I said, I work in a gym.
I told him what I do. I didn't tell him
why I had this question. I said, my question to
you is is there a scripture in the Bible, the
whole Bible, front or back, you know, Old or New Testament,
(42:18):
that talks about like working out, like physical training. And
he goes, oh, let me think, let me think, and
he kind of he chews over it from maybe six
eight seconds and he goes, yeah, there's there's there's one
scripture he called everyone, dear one. He goes, yes, dear one,
there's there's one and it's it's one Timothy four eight
(42:40):
and it's you know, physical training, prophetess a little, but
train yourself onto the things of God. And I'm like,
I went white and I just went thank you, and
then I just walked away, you know. So And some
people will say, well, that could happen, that's a coincidence,
And I'm going to say to you, maybe maybe I
don't know. Do I have proof that that was God?
(43:02):
Of course I don't, but I have had many things
like that happen. Now. I believe that just like here's
my analogy. Do you believe that your body is always
sending you signals? Tiff? Yeah, yeah, So I believe that
our body is a biofeedback system and we are all
(43:25):
getting messages from our body. I also believe that most
people do not listen. It's not that the information is there.
It's not that the wisdom or the insight or the
understanding or the message is not there. It's just that
we're not open. Now, if you want to do something
that's a bit scary, go and pray to whoever or whatever,
(43:48):
just say God, or whoever or whatever you are, if
you are real in the next week, just show me something,
show me something and be honest, and then people will go, oh, yeah,
you're going to make something up with your mind. And
you know, people will always find a reason. And I
get it. I get it. I get it one hundred
percent get it. I'm pretty skeptical too, I trust pretty slowly.
(44:11):
I ask a thousand questions. But you would be surprised
a number of people who when you open yourself to
the possibility that there's knowledge or wisdom or truth to
be gleaned and access that doesn't come from the Internet
or a book or Brian right, then some amazing shit
(44:33):
can happen.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Do you remember, I'm sure I told you. Do you
remember that dream I had? And it was it was
some time after we had a similar conversation to this,
where I was I was asleep.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
Yeah, tell it.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
You'll probably remember I was. I was asleep, and then
I had this kind of this half vivid I think
I'm awake but not really kind of dreaming. There's a
silhouette and obviously I'm thinking we've had a conversation about
God or Jesus or whatever. And and in that kind
of semi half awake, vivid feeling. I've gone I've looked
(45:07):
at this silhouette this, and I've gone show me or
proved to me or something. And in my mind I
know that it was like it was like it was
God or Jesus or whatever. And a moment later, the
cat ran its right. So I'm in bed, the cat
(45:28):
runs and I hear it on the carpet. It runs
up and it jumps and it's got its face next
to mine, and I've gone into complete shock. And then
I opened my eyes and there's no cat there but
the cat. My cat doesn't have access to my so
my bedroom door shut and the cat's in a completely
different room. Wow, and my heart's racing. And I was
(45:50):
like that. But at that first, like I couldn't move
for a second when it was happening, and I was
just like, what the fuck was that?
Speaker 3 (45:59):
And how did you you laughter that?
Speaker 2 (46:01):
I just remember it being like, what the hell was that?
M and cure it, you know, yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
Yeah, oh look it's this stuff. You know. Maybe one day,
by the way, for everyone who thinks, oh he's lost it, well,
I've always felt like this, and I've always I think
a lot of you know that. But at the same time,
this doesn't mean I discount the brain or the mind.
I'm literally doing a PhD in the mind. I love it.
(46:31):
I'm fascinated with it all. And I'm also well aware
of placebos. I'm also well aware that we can manufacture
experiences without knowing it. I'm well aware of that. But yeah,
I just look, I am fascinated with what there is
to know, what there is to experience, what there is
(46:53):
to access beyond what we think there is. And I think,
you know, like I, I think I'm a relatively educated person,
and I'm I am I'm not completely objective, of course,
I don't think anyone is completely objective, because everyone's individual
experience is literally subjective. But I'm a lot more open
(47:17):
and willing to be wrong, and which is why I say.
I don't say this is how it is. I say
this is how I think it is. This is what
I've experienced and everything that when I tell you these things,
these are actual, literal events. These are not you know,
we're not talking about a vision I had or you know,
(47:38):
these are just things that happened. And you know, I
think the more that you like open the door to
collaborate and connect with and pay attention to your body.
For example, the grater your self awareness and self understanding
develops like you understand you you understanding what your body
(48:03):
is saying to your mind and your brain so that
you can go do something. And I think I think
it's quite that. And again this, you know, probably will
come in for criticism, but I think it's arrogant to
think that the only knowledge and truth and wisdom is
with humans' his like is just lives within the mind
(48:27):
of us Homo sapiens. We because what we do is
we go. You know, well that doesn't make sense, so
that can't be true. Well, how about that doesn't make
sense meaning I don't understand it, meaning it doesn't fit
within our scientific box that we've created for us all
(48:47):
to live in. But so did many things over the centuries,
right which now in the box, they're out of the box.
You know, how about it doesn't make sense to me,
But also it could be true. I just think that's
a better paradigm because we all say, oh, yeah, I
want to be teachable, I want to be able to unlearn,
(49:09):
I want to be open minded. Yeah, but this don't
contradict what I already believe. Well, that is the opposite
of humility and awareness and open mindedness. That is the opposite.
But that is my experience is that almost everyone who
says I'm open minded is not open minded because they're scared.
(49:30):
They're scared because they don't, you know, when you believe
something like it's very even when I go, I don't
know if there's a God. Now that's just the truth. Also,
the truth is I believe in a God. But believing
in something is not the same as knowing something. And
this bothers people too, this distinction. Well, literally, faith is
(49:54):
believing something you can't prove, Otherwise it wouldn't be called faith.
It to be called data evidence, not colledge science whatever.
But even when we do think we know stuff, i e.
The food pyramid is the best way to eat, we
often find out the thing that we knew in inverted
commas was actually a flawed assumption or flawed knowledge. You know.
(50:16):
So this is the and I you know, this is
one of my favorite conversations with you of all time,
you know, And I just think that you know, these
conversations where we're not trying to we're just thinking out loud,
We're not trying to twist any arms. We're not trying
to shape any belief systems. We're just going, fuck, who knows,
(50:38):
I don't know, And you know how many And I'm
not saying we're great, We're not great, but you know
how many people get on and they're trying to push
a certain agenda or idea or way, and were going, fuck,
we don't know, could be this, could be that. But hey,
this is what happened to me. Hey, this is what
I used to think, This is what I think now. Hey,
I used to be a little bit of a zealous
(50:59):
you know, I used to be a little bit of
you know, living in the Jesus echo chamber, and I
was just too scared to even open the door to
you know. And it wasn't that I became anti God
at all, clearly, It was just that there were there.
The stuff that I struggled with was not the God
stuff as much as the human stuff surrounding. Because every human,
(51:21):
even if they're a preacher, you know, or a rabbi
or a priest, or a pastor or a nun or whatever,
every human, every one of them is still a human
with all their own bullshit. You think that because someone's
a pastor, that they never tell a lie, that they
never have the ego, that they never manipulate people, that
(51:42):
they never fucking embrace the power. That they don't of
course they do. That's not because they're bad, because they're human.
And we have to stop putting people up on altars
and worshiping humans. For God's sake, stop worshiping people. You know, body,
there are people that are really good at stuff, and
(52:03):
they have big brands and you know, high profiles, and
good on them, good on them, but they ain't any
better than any of you listening to this. And I'm
not saying that as a feel good kind of fucking
you know vibe. They're not. And the problem is we
live in a culture where people think they are They're prettier,
(52:25):
they're smarter, they earn more dough, they're better. They're not better.
They're not better. And that's part of the problem is
that we compare ourselves to people. And you know, it's
a real challenge to be able to go who am
I beyond what I think and what I believe? And
you know, these things that I've held on to through
(52:46):
gritted teeth for so long, and when I do an
inventory on my beliefs and ideas and my thinking and
the consequences of all of that over the last ten
twenty years. Oh, I need to revisit what I think
and what I believe and why.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
When we had a recent conversation with I think it
was with doctor Jody, you mentioned sometimes you feel like
you haven't achieved enough. Yes, what's the context of that?
Speaker 3 (53:21):
Yeah, that's just I feel like, firstly, I'm very grateful
for my life, right, I don't.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
I don't think spiritual enough, or is that it is
that it is that a human enough or is that
more on the conversation we're having now, Yeah, No.
Speaker 3 (53:43):
I guess in I guess actually in both ways. But
like while I look back and I remember, I clearly
remember how I felt and who I was, you know,
as you know, a very mediocre teenager growing up in
the country, at least I thought I was. An I
probably still think I was quite mediocre. I don't think
I was a bad kid. I think I was a
(54:04):
good kid. But in one way, I look at what
I've done and some of the things I've achieved, and
I'm proud without being arrogant, But I also think I
could do more like I have this and even as
I get older, the this is going to sound arrogant,
(54:27):
but I'm going to say it. I feel like my
purpose is to help as many people as I can realize,
and by realize I mean understand their potential, but also
realize means to put interaction and to operationalize their own potential.
I feel like and to support people, and I feel
(54:51):
like that's what I'm meant to do, and I feel
like I'm meant to ah be a version of love
to others. You know, on Friday when I did this gig,
one of the guys who owns I won't say, I
won't embarrass anyone, but he got up and he was
(55:14):
saying something about me in the day. He's one of
the bosses, and he's a sweetheart, and he was up
in front of the group and you know, he started crying.
This is a boss at work in front of everyone,
standing next to me and in front of everyone. I
gave him a hug, right, And it's when we get
(55:35):
past the bullshit and we go I'm a man, I'm
in front of my team and I'm like, yes, mate,
you can cry, one hundred percent. You can cry. This
is not you being weak or bad or broken or inferior.
This is you being fucking real and raw and it's
so admirable, right, So yeah, I just think that my
(55:56):
purpose is to help people understand or find there's not
guided by me, but you know, supported by me, whatever
that is. And I don't think I've done that well enough.
I think I've done it, Okay, I want to do
more of it. And if if there's a God, if
God said to me, for the rest of your life,
(56:18):
I will bring audiences to you. But you've got to
live in next to poverty. I would say I'm in
next door to poverty. I'm in because I'm not interested
in you know, like a normal human, I'm interested in money,
but I'm not driven by money at all. And I
think you know that. It's like I'm not I don't
(56:40):
give a fuck about what people think of my financial
situation or you know. And it's not that I don't
care at all about money, of course I do, but
for me, money is just a resource. But yeah, I
would rather than I've said this before. If you say, hahps,
you can talk to ten thousand people tonight at Vodafone
Arena or fifty people across the road for ten grand
(57:03):
I'm going Vodaphone arena every time, even if there's no coverage,
even if there's no social media, even if no one
knows about it except the ten thousand people, even if
I get zero accolades that I'm in there. You know.
So I think because I had moderate success when I
was in my early thirties, and I had more stuff
(57:24):
than I ever thought i'd have, you know, multiple houses, cars,
all that shit. In the middle of all of the
stuff that I had, it's like I had this. It's
like almost God went, okay, so you got all the stuff.
Now what do you know? And I go, it's not
about the stuff. It's not about the stuff. Stuff's good.
But yeah, so for me, that that and also being
(57:49):
you know, like I think also too, you know, you
don't want to beat yourself up constantly, you know, and
go I'm shit, And I have a tendency to do that,
but I need to rain that in a little bit.
But yeah, I think being of service, being of value,
and building that love bank balance and that spiritual bank
(58:09):
balance and that kindness bank balance, and even if it
doesn't come back, even if it doesn't come back, you
know you, just like the New Testament. There's a scripture
which shamedly I can't quote right. I know the scripture,
I can't remember where it's from, but it says when
you give, like in other words, when you're giving to
(58:30):
Jesus was in the temple and he was talking to
the Pharisees and Sadducees and people that like some of
the religious, because what the religious would do back in
the day in the temples, would they some of them
would come in with like a big treasure chest of
gold and go look at me, look at me, right,
And it wasn't really about making a sacrifice to God.
(58:52):
It was really about getting social brownie points and all
of that. And he said, when you give, give secret
he said, don't let your left hand know what your
right hand's doing. And he pointed out this old lady
that was up the front of the synagogue and she
had one gold coin and that was all of her
(59:13):
wealth in the world, so that was one hundred percent
of her wealth, and he knew that, and he said, basically,
that's that lady. Is that lady's truly giving, like she's
given the most of anyone today, you know, because she
gave one hundred percent of what she had to give.
You know, so I feel like I've gotten back up
(59:35):
on the pulpit. I apologize everyone.
Speaker 2 (59:38):
One last God question and then you can wrap it Upright,
do you have how do you perceive personally if you
want to share, or how do you interpret other gods
of other religions? Are they an interpretation of the same?
Speaker 3 (59:57):
Oh that's all so really smart? Yeah, look, yeah, that
is a good question. So, you know, like the God
of the Jews, which is the God of the Old Testament.
Jews don't believe that the New Testament is. I think
(01:00:17):
they think it's, you know, a religious text that's interesting maybe,
but they don't they don't use it as a theological text.
They don't believe. I think I don't believe they think
it's inspired by God or it's the word of God.
Of course, Muslims call God Allah, you know, Christians in
(01:00:43):
the Hebrew God is Yahweh or Hashem. And you know,
so that is a question I can't answer. But what
I think is on some level, most of us are
talking about this, dude, right, And you know, as for Christians,
(01:01:08):
Christians religions that believe in multiple gods, I don't believe that,
but again, that's just what I believe and don't believe.
I don't believe that, but that's like, like I've said,
who knows, one day I might find out, Hey, that
are right, you were wrong, and I'll go my hands
in the air emoji fuck who knew? You know? You know?
(01:01:33):
It's like I don't know, I don't know, but you know,
So in terms of all of that, I like, what
do I hope out of this conversation? I don't know.
I just I hope that even if people just question
that maybe there is more than we think, and maybe
what we understand is just what we understand, it's not
(01:01:55):
what there is to be understood, you know, And that
that having thoughts or beliefs or values or not values, thoughts, beliefs, ideas, ideologies,
theologies that you have embraced that could be a bit
wrong or a lot wrong is okay. Is okay. It
(01:02:16):
is uncomfortable, but it is okay, you know. So, and
there are things within Christian doctrine that you know I
question and I go, oh, that's that's hard for me.
I don't know. I don't know. I actually don't. It's
not like, well, My opinion on that is, I go,
I don't fucking know. I don't know, you know, and
(01:02:41):
but it's it's I do know that when I open
myself up to uh be directed or informed or I
don't know, spoken to for one of a better word,
I know that generally it happens. And sometimes, honestly, sometimes
I just pull the curve down and put the you know,
(01:03:03):
closed sign on the door, and I shut myself down
from God. You know, I'm like, don't want to hear,
don't want to hear, don't want to hear because I
know what I'm going to be told and I don't
want to deal with it. Yeah, so I'm selfish. Yeah
for sure.
Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Next time you're having a chat to him, can you
just tell him to ease up on the whole cat
stuff and just come and have a chat with me,
But don't ask me.
Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
Ask him one if he's real. If he's real, don't
be scared. You know. There is a scripture that says
fear God. It's one of the shortest scriptures in the Bible.
Another one is Jesus wept. It's like these two word scriptures. Anyway,
what did I I heard this scripture? I was thinking
(01:03:47):
about this morning. It is. They use this a lot
with people who I don't like war, by the way,
but soldiers that go to fight for their country. At
their funerals, they often have this scripture. It's I Sire
six eight, which is from the Old Testament, and it
(01:04:08):
says M and the Lord said, who will I send?
Who will go? And I said, I am here, I
will go. You know, I'm like, oh, And when I
hear that, I'm like, because sometimes the things that God
(01:04:29):
wants you to do, if there's a God, they are
not the things you want to do. Like you don't
want to put yourself in the middle of shits or
chaos or pain or uncertainty. But I just think that
not indifferent to you know, just developing resilience. You know,
that's sometimes opening that door that doesn't make sense to you.
(01:04:52):
Sometimes eventually it makes the most sense, the most sense.
It goes from making no sense to all the sense.
You know. Wow, I did not expect this conversation tonight,
and I don't think we're going to put it up tiff.
Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
Bullshit. No, I loved it. This is my favorite. I mean,
talk about bloody dead lifts and shit again.
Speaker 3 (01:05:18):
And yeah, well, there we go. God took. God hijacked
the program. God went, hey, yeah, God went, well, you
think you're talking about all that superficial. I was going
to swear then, but I'm pretty sure God doesn't swear.
But anyway, the show that God hijacked, that's great. All right, everyone,
(01:05:49):
love your gutss, love your gutss, and you know, let
us know what you think. By the way, if you
hated it, that's okay, let us know. Go I hated it,
go to the New Project facebook page. Or if you
liked it, or you found it interesting or helpful or unhelpful,
whatever you found it, that's okay. That's okay. Uh say
(01:06:10):
goodbye fair but TIF thanks im in oh sister loving
the Lord's wrong. I don't want to be.
Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
Right, she said, it's now never. I got fighting in
my blood
Speaker 3 (01:06:31):
Got it, got it,
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