October 15, 2025 • 52 mins
I think you know the gist by now... Bobby and I have fallen into quite the rhythm of kicking off every podcast with an unlikely chat about cats, but once we get that out of the way we launch into a fun banter on all things comedy, keynotes, keeping your pants on (maybe), and learning new skills.
Enjoy!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
She said, it's now never. I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm tiff. This is role with the punches and we're
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Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in
(00:29):
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reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au Foe Capuccio, welcome back.
(00:55):
You've got a new idea and you were telling me,
and I hit record real quick so that I could
make you tell the world what's your great what's your
great new ideas you get a brainstorm?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Well, I was speaking to a good friend of mine,
an old friend of mine. We've been friends now for
over two decades, so I think that's really serious, and
she is completely obsessed with you. She thinks she will
like an amazing human. She listens to the show. Probably
(01:30):
not for me. More for your input, and she did.
I think she noticed that for a lot of our
episodes we were talking about cats quite a bit. It's
like every episode started with a cat story, and here
we are. We just thought we should we just splice
off this podcast and do something special, like for the
(01:51):
niche market of cat owners, like everything you want to
know about cats.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I don't know if i'd be the best person to
inform anyone about cats. I mean, I made my hormonal
with HRT, so definitely don't want cat advice from me.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Wait, what did I.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Not tell you about that? No, I made my cat hormonal.
I was putting estrogen gel on my arm and then
I'd started to let which she never used to. She
used to get locked in her little bedroom of a
night so that she didn't wake me up. But I
started letting her sleep with me, and she started being
a moody little shit and I was wondering why, and
(02:36):
then I realized she was sleeping on the arm that
I was applying my estrogen gel to, and it transfers
to it's actually I'm really glad that I went down
to chat GPC rabbit Hole with it, because it is
actually really dangerous if they get long term exposure to that.
In the short term. It was quite hilarious though, because
(02:57):
I was like, oh, that's why you're being an asshole
all of a sudden, So long story short, you definitely
don't want me telling people how to raise their cats.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
I think it's a great angle to take what not
to do? This is true, Like how not the improper
way to get your cat started on hormone replacement therapy.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
That's a great idea. You know, if you heard of
human design, human design is this weird system. It's kind
of like not really but like I don't know how
to describe it. You I don't know. It's like based
on your birth date and all that jazz, and it's
like one of those personality kind of things, and it
takes into account a bit of maybe astrology stuff and
(03:44):
numerology and all that, and all the people that actually
know human design right now probably going ti if that's
absolutely not what the fuck it's about. But on my profile,
I've got so you get this this a type I'm
a reflector, which is really rare, and it's anyway I'm
going to go into it because I don't know well
(04:05):
enough to explain it. But then you get these two
profile numbers of three in a five, and then there's
these two other aspects. And a part of my profile
is doing what doesn't doing, like trying things to find
out what doesn't work, Like could you get a more miserable,
(04:25):
bloody profile. Then your job is to go through life
doing a whole bunch of shit just to find out
that it doesn't work.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
You sound a bit like an inventor or an entrepreneur,
to be fair, that's literally how it started.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
But it just I was like, come on, profile, give
me a happy ending where I fucking saved the world
and create something amazing and live happily ever after Nope,
I do it till I realize it doesn't work, and
then I go to the next thing.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Yeah, you sound like you sound like eighty percent of
the entrepreneurs in the world.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Oh well, I'm not invent I could invent something I
don't know how that already exists.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Make a better light bulb, the cat bulb.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Actually we have my cat doesn't live with me anymore,
so you know that he's moved out on his own.
He's got a cat of his own now. Actually, Brooklyn,
he's got a cat of his own. He's like I've
always said to my wife, you know, because he would
run around just uncontrollably playful, and was like, you know,
(05:41):
we're going to miss these days because he's going to
grow up. He grew up. He's in Brooklyn, he's got
a cat of his own. She lives in Brooklyn. But anyway,
what we were talking about kind of digressed the bit.
My wife Amy bought a panda light that you tap
on it and the panda against brighter and by brighter.
It's got like three settings, and my cat used to
(06:06):
hit that at three in the morning to wake you up.
So he would just hit he would just tap it
three times, putting on the brightest setting and just like
stare at you. You're gonna get up, Come on, pandelights on.
It's like you, little m.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
They're so clever, so clever, so clever and so cunning.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
I got him to finally just keep us sleeping until
four thirty am, and at that point he became highly useful.
I was like living with David Golkins. Get up four thirty,
get going, get to the gym.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
It's just win the day, the four thirty club.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Because I was about to say something, and then what happened?
I had this voice in my head talk about self editing.
It's like, oh, who cares. Nobody gives a shit about that.
Nobody cares about an episode you and Tiff recorded three
(07:13):
years ago, an episode we did, an episode about waking
up super early in the morning. That success it depends
on so many things. You jumped into it from an
epigenetic perspective, and I jumped into it from a like
I don't know so if I wake so if I
(07:35):
wake up at eight in the morning, in the morning
is like like leadership and success and happiness completely not
available for me. Like what if I'm more of a
night ow unless of like a lark? Is that what
you call it? I love early mornings. I live for them.
But what if I didn't, Like, is there anybody who
wakes up late stays up late that's got it going on?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Totally is But also, you know, I was just mentioning
this this morning because we just had daylight savings here,
which is that our clocks get changed by an hour.
Super annoying in this instance for me, super great because
I was getting annoyed that I kept waking up at
four thirty or five o'clock naturally, just consistently, and I
would like to sleep until six. And now, since they
(08:22):
like savings, I'm sleeping at six and I'm still and
it hasn't messed up my bedtime. So I just, you know,
pretty chuffed about that. Changed world has changed my favorite.
But the problem is it's not gonna last forever because
I think it going to change the clocks again.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
I hate daylight savings, especially when I have friends and
colleagues like yourself. I just get used to all the
time differences around the globe, and then there's just one
week where I am just a nightmare and I miss.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Everything I have found it since I've known you, a
struggle to just even know what times earn you're in.
I feel like I've always for.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
You are for me because I'm curing on it for you.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
And then by the time you and I get into
sync with it, then we have a daylight savings change,
and it changes and it completely throws me out more
than it ever should.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
I think that is the biggest We've never had a
falling out in our friendship, but I think any rough
patches we've gotten into have been related to daylight savings.
In one way, shape or form, because it's quite frustrating
when you play any whole day around. You got so
many things going on, and it's like, oh, I missed it,
and I missed the podcast with you yesterday.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
I just want to confess, public completely left me hanging.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
So here's the thing I had dury duty. I was
very concerned about the jury duty because you can get selected,
freaking you don't know how long you're out, and people like, oh,
can you present on this day for this group of people?
And I'm like, I don't know. It's like you can't
really go through your career with I don't know. I
don't know if I could do this, Well what about
this day? Maybe but maybe not. So let's say eighty percent.
(09:58):
That's that's not really So. I had all this anxiety
and ever since it's not like I wasn't selected for
jury well, I wasn't selected. It's not like I was
dismissed for anything I did. But when I got home yesterday,
I was so burnt out. My brain was fried. I
think I was a lot more anxious about this whole
jury duty situation then I allowed myself to believe because
(10:23):
I am useless today. But yes, ja. I was flying.
All the way through jury duty. I was wired. And
then the second they were like, all right, we've got
our jurors, we've got our alternates, the rest of you,
thank you very much, you can go home. By the
time I got home, I was a mess. I couldn't
think straight.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Part of that because the drinking, that's part of that.
Because it was undecided whether or not you were going
to be in it. So like if you just went
I'm in it, and then if you weren't in it,
then you're like, oh, I'm not in any more.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
The decisions there, that probably would have been a better
way to approach it.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
That's like how you should do things from now on.
In decisions, indecisions horrific Like I decision fatigue. You mentioned
it before the show, decision fatigue. Making decisions. I'm the
worst at it. If someone reaches out to me, if
I ask someone to come on the podcast and I
send them the booking link, then they reach out and
they need it alternate time. Oh my brain. I almost
(11:22):
feel it get heavy inside my head, like another decision
I need to make. But if someone reached out and
said I can't do that time, but can you do
this or this easy because I don't have to make
the decision. I just have to say yes.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
I'm probably suffering from decision fatigue, which explains what I'm
wearing today. Like do you see what I'm dressed? Like,
look at the state of me today. This is ridiculous.
I don't know why I reached it. Clearly, I reached
into a closet and grabbed the very first thing I
can find.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Well, you have to describe toever all of the listeners
now who can't see you wearing.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
I'm wearing a brown mesh hat, which is weird. I'm
wearing like grand grand father glasses, and I've got a
blue T shirt but over that I've got a short sleeve.
It's kind of like a Hawaiian thing, but it's not Hawaiian.
It's this weird pattern. It looks like I'm one of
(12:22):
those old tourists that can't really find their way about town.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
If you look, if I close my eyes as you
described that, I would not picture what you're actually wearing.
I would picture something completely colorful and outrageous. The blue
shirt doesn't look blue. It looks like slate gray from here,
and the shirt at the top kind of looks gray
with a pattern that's not at all Hawaiian.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
That's why style it's kind of Hawaiian but not Hawaiian.
So imagine a Hawaiian shirt that's not at all Hawaiian.
That's kind of what I'm wearing. If you can imagine
this shirt is.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
So it's just a ship. Anything that mikes Hawaiian. Ship
Hawaiian is the fact that it's a wine I get
and it's just a certain cut.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
You know. You see the geezes they're out there and
they've got the Hawaiian shirts. Ship. No, this is like
a shirt that I should be wearing with shorts that
are too long for me and socks pulled up, pulled
up to my knees with oh oh, with the with
(13:31):
the thongs over the socks. You've seen those people. Yeah,
I feel like that's exactly what I'm dressed like. I'm not.
I'm wearing like full trousers and stuff.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
But tell me about your comedy course.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
It's good, Okay. So the first couple of weeks I
rocked up and I'm the first class. I was exhausted
and he pulled me up on stage and this is
where he's like, so what are you going to talk
about what are some of the things that's tell me about,
like what you do for a I was like, oh,
it's very complicated. There's so many elements to it. I
don't really want to waste everyone's time. And he's like, oh, well,
(14:07):
you know just what excites you in life? And I
was like, I don't know. I like being here. This
is great, and he's like, well, so tell me some
funny stories. I was like about me. He's like yes,
about So halfway through, trying to kind of tease out
what I was going to create a set around my
(14:30):
poor teacher. He had his head resting in his hands
and he's just shaking his head back and forth like
he was in extraordinary physical and emotional pain. So then
I went to the next class and I got up
on stage. I had written this whole skit, but I'm
really bad on my mobile phone. So I'm going through
(14:50):
my notes. I'm like, oh, wait, I lost my spot.
Hold on, let me go wait, hold on, I'm sorry.
Can I start again? Let me do that? And he's
just sitting there staring at BE like why are you
my karmic debt? Like what have I done? Like? You
you are definitely retribution for all the evil I've ever
committed in my life at any age. And then I
(15:12):
didn't make it to a class because work came up,
so I had to miss it, gonna miss it on
the class this week work. And then I was on
my club on my way to class, the last one
this week, and I was like, you know, screw it.
I'm just not gonna pull out my notes. I'm just
gonna get on stage. I'm gonna do the best I can.
I'm gonna remember as much of my set as possible.
(15:35):
And I just got on stage and went for it.
It's like, you know, if you would slow down a
little bit and wait, pause in between beats, that's a
perfect set. You're ready to do your show. I was like, what,
I'm doing a show. So now I'm doing a show
this week, so coming up on well next week, really
(15:58):
not this week, the week after this week, which would
be next week. Wow. Okay, So it's how long do
you show?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
How long did you beat?
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Oh? It's about a ten minute set, which is great,
And I've got my material laid out and I'm just
gonna just rock up and have a little bit of fun.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Are you terrified? At all.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
No, obviously, no, No, I don't think I'm gonna be
terrified until the day off. The day off, I'll be
like really terrified. But I try to reserve my terror
for when I really need it. I don't want to
be terrified now and just use up all my terror.
And then I get on stage and I have no
butterflies to like channel and really drive the right beats
(16:43):
and shifts and intensity. I need to back down a
little bit, like like pull it back and just slow down.
Because I got up on stage. I got up on
stage in class, I was like, this is gonna suck.
So I just like I wow, hammered it, just flew
through it, and I was like, yeah, you should have
slowed down a bit. And we had two other working
comedians in the room, which made me very nervous because
(17:07):
this other guy was like given notes from the back
of the room. So you have the teacher and then
you have like his friend who he got up but
he's hilarious, this guy. And then this other dude walked
in the room and you know, you know when someone
just looks funny, not being funny looking, but you're like, oh,
this guy is a working comedian. So he was up.
(17:27):
So I had three working comedians in the room and
I was like, oh, let me just get past this
and just I don't know, spare as many people in
this class from pain and suffering. They loved the set.
I was so surprised, So I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
What are your strengths in comedy and what?
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Yeah, what appearance, physical appearance like from the neck up, hilarious.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Kids like you? What do you find net truly easy
and you're good at? And what do you have to
remind yourself? What do you have to to work at?
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Like?
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Is it timing? Is it tone? Is it content? Is it? Connection?
And presence?
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Like?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
And what are the what are the other aspects? I
think all of those, all of those you're good at,
or all of those you gotta work on.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
I think all of those I've got to work on.
I think I'm good when comedy is not expected, like
I am a I'm a laugh a minute at funerals.
But I think when I'm giving this seminar and I'm like, oh,
(18:40):
this is kind of funny, and I'm not thinking, I'm
able to throw things out there and make connections that
are just unusual and figure out what does the audience
laugh at and what do they not laugh at? Because
oh man, especially like I've told you that this has
been I'm coming out of it now. My presentations are
(19:02):
going back to the way they used to be. But
the past twelve months I've had some of the worst
presentations of my entire life for a lot of reasons
that we've talked about. With just overthinking self editing. Then
I have other people's voices in my head that are
not very supportive, highly critical, and which is just so weird.
(19:24):
Over preparing, just being so prepared getting on stage. I'm
almost going through a checklist in my mind all the
things you would tell people when you're training them never
to do. And I would throw out jokes and the
audience would just stare at me, like they know, they
know I made a joke and they know it's not funny,
and that never happened. So then you start getting thrown
(19:48):
a little bit, or you start making more jokes because
it's like, you know what it's on spite you might
not appreciate this, but I'm just going to stand up
here and entertain myself. And I think when humor's just
not it's it's not expected and you're able to throw
in that element and be quick on your feet. That
really works for me because the time, I mean, it's
(20:11):
not just the humor, right, it's the setup, it's the punchline,
it's the timing. And I think I'm really good at
doing that. But when it comes to doing stand up,
I kind of I think I put too much emphasis
because there's a lot of pressure, So sometimes my timing
is a little bit off.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
How do you Because comedy is a very curated thing,
you know, or maybe I'm wrong, but I perceive it
is something where you know exactly your jokes and exactly
what you're going to say and how you're going to
deliver it or how you intend to and it's about
refining that. So is it. It's it's very different to
(20:51):
your speaking style, isn't it? Or am I wrong?
Speaker 3 (20:54):
For me? It's not because here's what would happen. So
when I was on the road and I was giving
let's say anywhere from one to three seminars a week,
so yeah, so I would give anywhere from three upwards
maybe ten presentations a month. You start to throw things out,
(21:16):
just little things and test it. And so you throw
something out nobody laughs, no problem. Then you throw something
out again, nobody else. Third thing you throw out, people laugh.
I remember that. Three days later, I'm up in front
of a room again. It's the same kind of context.
I'll throw that at it again. If they laugh again,
it's like, okay, that's a pattern. So when you're constantly
speaking and you're experimenting with things, after a while you
(21:41):
know what's going to work. So you go out a
couple of months later and you're doing a session and
you can make people laugh throughout the whole duration, not
because you want it to be a comedy show, but
because if people are laughing, they're engaged and they're learning,
they're not just sitting there okay, and here slide sixty
(22:01):
seven as people are just going, oh my god, I
hate my life. I have no will to live any longer.
I think it's kind of the same thing with comedians.
You have to write every single day. And I'm not
meaning writing well, just show up and write, make observations,
go out and test that, and you have to be
willing to be shit in front of a room, and
(22:23):
then you might have ten jokes written down. Two of
them might really land. Okay, Well, I can get rid
of eight of them. I'm gonna keep those two, and
then I'm gonna write ten more. Now i've got twelve. Okay, wow,
so I've got like five now out of that twelve
that lands, I'm gonna kill that. And after a while
you start to put together a whole set, whether that's
thirty minutes or sixty minutes. I feel like that's what
(22:45):
it's been like for me as a speaker, although I
haven't written jokes down obviously, but you just figure out
what works and you try things. It's like, after a while,
you refine it. And I know when I say this,
and I know it's about timing because times what I'm
saying is not even funny. It's the timing and delivery
(23:07):
and the absurdity of it. And people just are in stitches.
Like in the fitness industry, like one stuff that. There's
a lot of things I used to say in the
fitness industry the fitness people can relate to. But like,
all right, well, you know how come like big guys
in the gym never trained with tubing. Well, it doesn't
(23:28):
make a crashing sound when you throw it on the floor,
and nobody's gonna laugh at that in another audience, but
fitness people because it's so relatable and you've been in
the gym with these massive people and they throw the
weights down you when the whole floor vibrates, they would
find that hilarious. And the rooms in stitches over something
that's not really funny. It's just when you introduced it
(23:51):
and how you delivered it, and maybe the contrast of
what you were talking about connected.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Does this to improve the way you communicate in other
completely different areas. So if timing, because I'm fascinated by that,
like when I watch I love watching comedians on Instagram
now it's my favorite. I just love And what I
love is just watching how their delivery and timing makes
(24:22):
just like you said, it makes something that's really not
that funny so funny. But the same has to be
true for communication in any respect, whether it's like serious
or or intimate communication or you know, what have you learned?
(24:43):
Has it translated?
Speaker 3 (24:45):
I think it's exactly the opposite. What works in a conversation,
what works in the pub, what works in a one
on one meeting or an office does not translate to
the stage. They're two totally different environments, and I think
it's a matter of not worrying about timing. It's a
matter of immersive listening because you never know how a
(25:07):
conversation is going to go. And like, let's say, right now,
you and I go into a meeting with four other people.
This is the six of us. It's not like we
go into a meeting we hand out Q cards. Okay, Jen,
here's what you're going to say, and you know, Fred,
you say this when she says that you have no
idea what's coming. So the more immersively you listen and
(25:28):
you're not thinking at all about what you're going to say,
the more present you are in the moment and you
know what needs to be said or what could be said,
how and when?
Speaker 2 (25:41):
And then how does that apply with comedy? So I'm
just like relaying the two together, and I get that,
But then there is a form of listening in comedy.
So I'm just trying to piece together how that really
curated because it's so top of mind for me right
now with what I'm what I've been doing and the
(26:02):
learned the speaking course that I've been doing, the program,
which is not my natural style and I don't like
it at all, but I'm looking at yeah, it works
for comedy, it works for acting. You figure it out,
but how do you how do you piece that together?
(26:22):
And and how do you while you're doing that, how
does that translate to still listening and observing and connecting
with the audience but running to your plan.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
I think you brought up something really powerful there. It
all comes down to listening. It's just what is the
nuance of listening in the environment you're in. I think
if you're on stage just almost like an mprov class,
which which probably has a lot more transference to everyday
(26:59):
life and nless you're someone who gives a lot of presentations,
if you're not well, okay, maybe it doesn't transfer to you.
But if you're someone who has a lot of conversations,
which is most people who are not hermits, it really does.
Where it's you're listening, so you're not thinking about what's
my next line? Okay, what's my cue? And then I'm
gonna jump out. And even if you all, even if
(27:22):
you deliver your line verbatim for what's in the script,
no two lines are of the same because you're not
ever gonna be presented with the same thing. The other
actor on stage might have a different inflection, they might
make a different choice, they might be feeling something different
in that moment, So how they deliver the same exact
(27:43):
words might vary. And if you're giving a line and
it's not it's not congruent with what was just being
given to you, it seems dis rhythmic, Like that doesn't
look like two people having a conversation. That looks like
two people aiming a monologue at one another, kind of
(28:05):
like a Wholemark film. Yeah, where I think, And I
think that's the key because in everyday conversation, if you
come in and you're you're open, and you're empty, you'll
probably do a lot better conversationally than you would if
it's like, Okay, well here's how I'm going to make
(28:26):
this point. You don't know what's going to be delivered
to you, so be in response to people rather than
just continually driving with an agenda, and that works. I
think that works in every audience. I know for public speaking,
there's definitely listening where you could feel the audience you're
with them. You kind of at any given point you
(28:48):
understand when they're with you, why they're with you, and
what that energy is in the room, whether it's it's serious,
whether it's lighthearted, whether they're more engaged or whether more
passively with you to where they're not going to interact,
but you know you have their attention and you know
when you lost them. I think you can't do that
(29:09):
if you're too focused on Okay, I got to deliver
my lines. Okay, and this is the punch. There's got
to be that dynamic tension between what you're there to
deliver and where you are in that room with the
people at any given point.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, what do you think is most important?
Speaker 3 (29:31):
My default would be listening because if not, just even
with people who make videos, they almost over time with
everything in the chat or everything in the dms. They
understand their audience even though there's not a physical person there.
(29:52):
I know when I do a lot of video like
camera work, sometimes that was traditionally very hard for me
because there was no feedback until I realized, oh no,
there is there's someone you're talking to there. It's like,
oh now, now now it's easier. Now I understand what
this is. So my default answer is I think everything
(30:14):
starts with listening. What do you think it is? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (30:21):
I think so, But I also am I'm really aware
that I'm biased to that at the moment, and because
I'm comfortable with that, so like I want you to
say that, and because I want to stack up more
reasons to continue to like, I'm really struggling with this
(30:42):
scripting of the keynote. This this process that I've that
I've gone through this year in learning, and you know,
I'll be delivering a talk in this way. I'll be
delivering this particular keynote at the end of this month,
and I still feel extremely uncomfortable with that process. I
(31:08):
feel like I will not have the ability to It's
not it's work, not just not working to my strengths,
it's really pushing. It's pushing me in areas where I
don't know if I have the ability to shine.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
How did you know that, hey, or how did you
arrive at that conclusion? That's interesting?
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Well, I think, and I'm not sure if it's just
people like different speakers. So I get that, and I
get that some however I deliver this, some people will
love it and some won't love it as much. But
I know what lands with me when I see speakers
(31:49):
and this I feel like this version that will be
evoked through this process of me is so obviously not
what I connect with, Like I, when I can see
that people aren't really connecting and just talking like you
and I are right now, Like I, when we're in
a podcast, we're just having a conversation and we're aware
that we're doing it for the benefit of listeners. But
(32:12):
I haven't curated, like we don't know what we're going
to talk about, and we listen and we go where
we go. And I love that because it's real and
there's that real human interaction. I'm listening, I'm interested. I
see that. When speakers aren't doing that, I see the performance.
And my sense is if I wanted a performance, I'd
(32:33):
go to theater and I'd watch theater. If I want
to go and see a speaker, I want to hear
someone tell me and teach me and talk to me.
But that's just my preference and not everyone's me. So
I'm struggle. I'm grappling with that at the moment. I'm
really you know, it's got me in my lip.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
It seems incongruent with your style, and it seems inauthentic
and the dynamic between presenter and audience.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah, And I think that because I'm very easily in
my head about things, and I don't have the great
I don't have the greatest memory to have that much
of a restriction on how this flows and goes, where
we go next and what and boundaries around it. I
(33:17):
think that that will be a real challenge for me
and make me feel so hyper aware of it that
it'll be harder for me to connect and be in
the moment and just be me, like I just want
to ruck up and just know that I'm My job
is just to yeah, I'm going to cover this, this
and this and this is this is the kind of flow,
(33:38):
but I'm just going to walk out and connect and
that connection will dictate the first thing that comes out
of my mouth, which I'll have an idea of what
that will be, but it might change.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
I wonder if those things have to be mutually exclusive.
Why did they have you script this course? You're aunt
is one of my public speaking courses. I had to
script everything as well. I was like, Okay, here's the story,
here's two points you're going to make, Here's where you
(34:10):
transition and how you transition. And I hated it. I
liked writing it, but having it as a medium of
delivery I was like, Oh, this sucks, But what was
their rationale before I chime in? Because I might not
(34:30):
know anything about what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
I think there has been there's been a lot of
benefit in really understanding the depths of how you deliver
a message and curate it in the strongest way to land.
I think there's benefit in that. But I I also
think when you teach, when you teach a course or
a workshop, you have to have a framework and you
(34:57):
have to sow how if I if I were to
have a workshop where I'm teaching people a skill set,
I have to have a framework to teach. I can't
just go Okay, well everyone's really different, so you'll just
do what you want. So we're given this, We've given
this to do, and it's it's gonna suit some people
more than others then, And I'm not saying that it doesn't.
(35:19):
The process isn't of benefit. It's been hugely of benefit.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
I just.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Am still very uncomfortable with whether or not it'll be
a great delivery method for me.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
So when I first started taking this class, I was
moaning constantly about descripting and then Amy had said to me, well,
that's exactly why this is the course for you. I
probably could have gotten this for several thousand dollars less
than when I paid, so I was kind of It's
kind of irritated, like when you sign up to a
(35:58):
course and you don't get what you thought you were
going to get for the money you're paying. So right there,
I was kind of disgruntled. So you've got to learn
how to deliver in a way that is not aligned
with your natural style. If it doesn't work, stop doing it,
(36:19):
but at least learn it, at least committing to commit
to learn it. And what I found that was useful
is it allowed me to put together, as you're saying,
a framework, but then the script was pouring concrete into
the frame. And then you go ahead and you go
through that script and you're practicing it. And then what
(36:43):
I would get on stage, and during this time I
wasn't getting on a lot of stages is the tail
end of COVID. A lot of my stages were virtual.
I would just let go, I know the framework, now,
I know where everything is. I'm not going to memorize
and regurgitate an entire script, although I know some people
(37:05):
can do that fairly. Well, that's just not my style,
and that puts a barrier between me and my audience.
So I was like, Okay, here's my framework. I'm gonna
go over it, go over it. Go the day of
I'm not even gonna look at it, don't give a shit,
and I'm gonna sit down and I'm just going to
be present and go.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
And when I'm saying like the past year I struggled
a bit, is for a lot of reasons, I wouldn't
let go of that framework. So normally, before I speak,
I'm listening to music or I'm listening to something, or
I'm moving my body, I'm getting into state. I'm not
going over anything, but you would see me going over
(37:50):
stuff like i'd be in the restaurant at the hotel. God.
So point one that is the point number two is
the point number three. If I could have, I would
have written things down out of my hand. Point one, okay,
four on point two point three, I was like, who
is this person? Why are you doing this stuff? And
what happens If you get on stage and you start
(38:11):
to sweat, You're gonna lose all your points, have nothing
to talk about. And I've seen that happen to people
and I've used it as an example because I think
the way we're taught and we're taught how to speak
by people who don't have a lot of skill in
public speaking, but they have a lot of anxiety. That's
not the person you want teaching you. And I was like, ok,
(38:34):
you need your power points and they need to have
all the content. And this is going back over twenty
years ago, probably two thousand and two ish, where it
was just a perfect storm. The projector did not work,
it broke, and the power point presentations that this this
(38:56):
guy who is going to present half a day on
and they never arrived, so he had nothing. He couldn't
look at his paper and just read from there. Nobody
had a PowerPoint a presentation in front of them because
you that was part of the hand afs. Remember the
three three slides on the page with the little lines. Yeah,
those were a lot of fun. And he had nothing.
(39:18):
He had nothing projected up on the wall. So now
what are you gonna do? And the answer is nothing.
He had to move his presentation to a different day.
He was so incapacitated. And for me, I was like, oh, okay, great,
I didn't really want to follow that PowerPoint deck anyway,
(39:40):
and it's just don't miss a beat. So you can't
really depend on that, but ah, it's it if you
can let go and be in a state of flow.
Having that framework and practicing it I think helps you.
You know, it's like any skill. You're driving a car
and you're hyper focused on you know, where you know
(40:01):
how to use the clutch, where your hands go, and
it's like you're not doing that every day. Is that
framework still there? Yeah, it's still there. Well, actually no,
it's not. You've got like one hand on the wheel,
another hand. Heaven knows where you've got that hand, but
it's not on the wheel, and it's just yeah, I
don't mean that, but it's doing other things. It's like
(40:24):
you're not even looking straight ahead. You're talking to people
in the back seats, so you're not even looking at
the road anymore. You're literally using the force to drive
down the road and get to your destination alive. But
I think that's because of all the attention you had
to pay to every little detail and follow that as
you were learning how to drive. It's kind of like
(40:44):
the you know, unconscious incompetence, conscious incompetence and as you
start to build and build to unconscious competence. It's kind
of like that process. And it's the same thing with everything.
If you go over it enough, it's delivered enough, you
could let it rip. That's what happened this past week.
It is like, I'm not going to stand up there
with with my little joke notes on my phone. I'm
(41:07):
just gonna go up and do the best that I can.
And it worked. Why Because I went over those jokes
so many times I kind of knew. Did I do
them in the exact order? Probably not. Did I mess
up a couple of jokes or the wording? Yeah, you know,
but so what, who cares? People get worked?
Speaker 2 (41:30):
And that's where this whole thing's meant to hand. You know.
It's like we script it, but then by the end,
you know it's basically not that tightly. But I just
get hell bent on it sounds ridiculous because and so
I find it hard to read through it because it
doesn't sound natural.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Yeah, the worst place you never I think this is
true with anything in life. You don't ever want to
get stuck in your head when you're trying to do anything.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yeah, it's especially in my head. That's a shit place
to get stuck.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
Yeah, nobody wants that, but I'm sure it's the same
in the ring, it's the same on a tennis court,
and it's definitely the same up on stage. I think
the more you can listen, right, and I'm not just
talking about words, I'm talking about nonverbal communication, body language movement,
The more you can be with either your partner, your audience,
(42:22):
even your opponent, the better you're gonna do in that
in that moment if you've prepared, and that's the thing,
because you can listen as much as you want if
you're doing a proposal. If if you don't have competence
but you have great listening skills and you don't have
nothing prepared, you're gonna get your ass kicked and whatever
arenaar you're in. But if you've got both of those things,
(42:44):
you've got to be able to trust yourself because you're
either gonna be in your head or you're gonna be
with the people around you. And in your head kind
of sucks because we've all seen people there and they
either they the panic or they choke, they underthink and
go blank, or they overthink and they triple all of themselves.
Neither of which is really good for the people watching
in the stands, and it's definitely not good for the
(43:08):
person who's actually in that arena. It's that whole thing
about can the people in the arena on the pitch,
can they hear the people in the stands. So you've
got all this declarative and then you've got this running editorial,
you know, declarative language versus people talking about stuff like
(43:31):
in the stands, it's always about about what should have happened,
what the person should have done, how they should have responded.
But that moment's even passed, so it's not about the
present they're talking about. It's kind of like that they're
giving their commentary on recent history and the people who
are playing the actual game can't even hear them. It's
(43:53):
just background noise for them. And I think we become
our own background noise when we're editing and going through
this whole conversation.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
About when in comedy, when you get laughs, like so
when you piece that together. So you go out and
you practice your bits in different areas and you curate,
Oh that work to put that one back in my pocket,
keep that, keep that do you find it? Sometimes different
(44:24):
types of people are laughing at different things that just
won't fit together, and you're trying to fit them together,
and you're like, oh, why is that falling flat now?
And you and how does that shape the type of
direction you're going? Because I think about.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
It comedy because I'm not a comedian.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
But yes, you're doing a comedy course and you're funny,
so you're kind of a comedian.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
But I've done stand up a handful of times, which
does not necessarily make me a community. I've never got
paid to be a comedian. It's like, hey, all right,
it's open mic night, get up there and humiliate yourself
for our for our immu. I mean that's fine. I
mean that that that sounds a lot like dating back
in high school. But I've never gotten paid for a set.
(45:11):
So I'm not a comedian. I'm definitely not a professional comedian.
But I've gotten paid as a speaker. And I know, yes,
sometimes it's you. Sometimes you're out of alignment, you're incongruent.
Sometimes it's the culture. So when I was doing a
lot of presenting in Australia or the UK and the
(45:34):
northeast of the US, the humors, the humor is kind
of nuanced a little bit, so there's a lot there's
a lot of sarcasm. It's indirect humor, which makes timing
all the more important, so it would land. But then
you go to other like even at the other end
of the country here, like that type of humor is
(45:58):
not gonna land. It's got to be a little bit
more direct. But you learn that. And it's like, so
what if you've got enough material, you just skip right
over it here, Because here's the thing I'm I've trained
presenters quite a bit, and I'm working with a couple
of people in my company right now training them to
be presenters. And they're brilliant, and it's like, you're gonna
(46:20):
mess up. So we had this presentation, Oh my god,
and it was it was virtual and one person was
the admin and the other person was the presenter. Now,
when you're a brand new presenter, this is like the
worst thing that could possibly happen to you. If you're
a season presenter, it's a non event and he's going
(46:43):
through his slides and there's even you know, sometimes you
engage in the audience and go okay. So I think
the question was how long does it take to form
a habit what do you guys think, raise your hand,
how many of you think twenty one days? Because that's
really common based on Novellid research at all. And then
how many of you think thirty or sixty? And everybody
(47:04):
loves that. They love to test their knowledge. He had
it on a slide like a pole, so he didn't
forget it, and it's like, okay, so every every point
he was gonna make, there was a slide for that
particular point, and then the PowerPoint disappears because when he
went to the pole, it kicked him out of the PowerPoint.
And he's like, all right, well, okay, so a little
(47:24):
bit of technical different culties, and I'm just sitting there,
Oh I feel I feel the full weight of what this,
what this guy is experiencing. But the fact of the
matter is the audience only knows that something's a big
deal if you bring it to their attention. So there's
so many things to do. One that's hilarious. Your PowerPoint
just disappeared, so you know, like, oh wow, powerpoint's gone,
(47:48):
so you can all go home sessions over. I forgot
you know, I don't. I don't remember any of this,
and so that's one thing you could do too. It's like,
oh good, the powerpoint's gone. Let me have secure question,
unmute yourselves and interact with the audience, or you just
let if something is causing you diress, the audience feels
(48:11):
uncomfortable with it now. So if you throw out a
couple of jokes and nobody laughs, who cares? Just keep going,
especially if you're in a presentation. It's about the content. Hopefully,
there's research you're talking about, there's stories, there's analogies you have,
there's takeaway points. There's not just comedy. That would be
a very disappointing corporate session. You know, comedy enhances it,
(48:34):
it's not the whole point of it. So who cares?
Just go on to the next joke. Don't be like
Richard Boyd and drop your trousers in front of the room.
That's that's n that's probably that's probably not the right
course of action. What's really interesting is how many times
(48:55):
Richard Boyd thought it was appropriate to drop his trousers
in front of the room. One organization that we were
working with nicknamed him Crocodile Undie because he was always
in his underpants in front of the room. It's like, no,
but there's context around this, and it's just what So
it was shock value. So I can't believe I'm naming him.
(49:17):
Oh I'm really calling him out here, aren't I? But yeah,
so Richard Boyd, he would have his all closer eyes
and think about the person that we care most about
and someone you know, coming into gym and imagine like
what we'd be anxious on behalf of them with, and
(49:42):
what we would want for them, what type of experience,
And it's like, okay, open your eyes. It's like whoa Okay,
wasn't expecting to see that good thing he remembered to
put his underpants on. Would have been a totally different seminar.
And he's like, this is how that person feels the
first time the coming to the gym. It's like, oh, right, okay,
(50:02):
they feel embarrassed, they're very vulnerable, they're exposed. But not you,
though you seem to be loving it. Dirty talk, but
I'm so did I if we're being honest. But it's
not the point. The point is he would use that
as shock value. And what's really great about that is
(50:25):
at least he was willing to take risks to make
a point and drive a point home. At least he
cared more about the audience and the point than himself,
because I know that wasn't comfortable. It's not like, oh great,
another opportunity to drop my trousers. He's not that kind
of guy. So it's almost like, Okay, I'm going to
do this.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
It's really clever.
Speaker 3 (50:45):
There is something about that where I'm okay being vulnerable
and embarrassed if it's on behalf of the audience. Now,
if you're working in any type of role where you
give presentations that in nine out of ten situations as
a career killer and in two situations it might be
a lawsuit. Some countries it's a felony. So don't do that.
(51:08):
But the point, the point is the point is that
I completely forgot my point. I had a point that
I started with and then I went all the way.
Oh yeah, if you're not making a big deal about it,
and if you're comfortable, the audience is going to be
as comfortable as possible and they're not comfortable, don't drop
(51:31):
your trousers next time, because if you're dropping your trousers
and the audience is uncomfortable, it is definitely your fault.
You've done it and a lot of mistakes. They just happen.
So mistakes just happened. Roll with it, unless, of course,
you dropped your trousers. That didn't just happen. You made
it happen. It's your fault. You're guilty, and shame on you.
(51:52):
Your mother didn't raise you that way.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
I'm trying to figure out a way I can wave
that into my canoe and drop my pants.
Speaker 3 (52:02):
And that concludes our episode of this.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
Keep your Pants On with Bobby and Cheeth.
Speaker 3 (52:11):
We've got a title, all right. So I'm on I'm
on LinkedIn. I don't really take any other platforms, seriously,
no disrespect is just not my thing. And I'm on
Robert Capugio dot com and I'm on the self help
at dot com.
Speaker 2 (52:24):
See you next time, Bobby.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
She said, it's now never. I got fighting in my blood,
got it, got it,
She said, it's now never. I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm tiff. This is role with the punches and we're
turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go
to court, and don't. My friends are test Art Family Lawyers.
Know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution.
Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in
(00:29):
all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples,
custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements
and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so
reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au Foe Capuccio, welcome back.
(00:55):
You've got a new idea and you were telling me,
and I hit record real quick so that I could
make you tell the world what's your great what's your
great new ideas you get a brainstorm?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Well, I was speaking to a good friend of mine,
an old friend of mine. We've been friends now for
over two decades, so I think that's really serious, and
she is completely obsessed with you. She thinks she will
like an amazing human. She listens to the show. Probably
(01:30):
not for me. More for your input, and she did.
I think she noticed that for a lot of our
episodes we were talking about cats quite a bit. It's
like every episode started with a cat story, and here
we are. We just thought we should we just splice
off this podcast and do something special, like for the
(01:51):
niche market of cat owners, like everything you want to
know about cats.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I don't know if i'd be the best person to
inform anyone about cats. I mean, I made my hormonal
with HRT, so definitely don't want cat advice from me.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Wait, what did I.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Not tell you about that? No, I made my cat hormonal.
I was putting estrogen gel on my arm and then
I'd started to let which she never used to. She
used to get locked in her little bedroom of a
night so that she didn't wake me up. But I
started letting her sleep with me, and she started being
a moody little shit and I was wondering why, and
(02:36):
then I realized she was sleeping on the arm that
I was applying my estrogen gel to, and it transfers
to it's actually I'm really glad that I went down
to chat GPC rabbit Hole with it, because it is
actually really dangerous if they get long term exposure to that.
In the short term. It was quite hilarious though, because
(02:57):
I was like, oh, that's why you're being an asshole
all of a sudden, So long story short, you definitely
don't want me telling people how to raise their cats.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
I think it's a great angle to take what not
to do? This is true, Like how not the improper
way to get your cat started on hormone replacement therapy.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
That's a great idea. You know, if you heard of
human design, human design is this weird system. It's kind
of like not really but like I don't know how
to describe it. You I don't know. It's like based
on your birth date and all that jazz, and it's
like one of those personality kind of things, and it
takes into account a bit of maybe astrology stuff and
(03:44):
numerology and all that, and all the people that actually
know human design right now probably going ti if that's
absolutely not what the fuck it's about. But on my profile,
I've got so you get this this a type I'm
a reflector, which is really rare, and it's anyway I'm
going to go into it because I don't know well
(04:05):
enough to explain it. But then you get these two
profile numbers of three in a five, and then there's
these two other aspects. And a part of my profile
is doing what doesn't doing, like trying things to find
out what doesn't work, Like could you get a more miserable,
(04:25):
bloody profile. Then your job is to go through life
doing a whole bunch of shit just to find out
that it doesn't work.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
You sound a bit like an inventor or an entrepreneur,
to be fair, that's literally how it started.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
But it just I was like, come on, profile, give
me a happy ending where I fucking saved the world
and create something amazing and live happily ever after Nope,
I do it till I realize it doesn't work, and
then I go to the next thing.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Yeah, you sound like you sound like eighty percent of
the entrepreneurs in the world.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Oh well, I'm not invent I could invent something I
don't know how that already exists.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Make a better light bulb, the cat bulb.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Actually we have my cat doesn't live with me anymore,
so you know that he's moved out on his own.
He's got a cat of his own now. Actually, Brooklyn,
he's got a cat of his own. He's like I've
always said to my wife, you know, because he would
run around just uncontrollably playful, and was like, you know,
(05:41):
we're going to miss these days because he's going to
grow up. He grew up. He's in Brooklyn, he's got
a cat of his own. She lives in Brooklyn. But anyway,
what we were talking about kind of digressed the bit.
My wife Amy bought a panda light that you tap
on it and the panda against brighter and by brighter.
It's got like three settings, and my cat used to
(06:06):
hit that at three in the morning to wake you up.
So he would just hit he would just tap it
three times, putting on the brightest setting and just like
stare at you. You're gonna get up, Come on, pandelights on.
It's like you, little m.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
They're so clever, so clever, so clever and so cunning.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
I got him to finally just keep us sleeping until
four thirty am, and at that point he became highly useful.
I was like living with David Golkins. Get up four thirty,
get going, get to the gym.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
It's just win the day, the four thirty club.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Because I was about to say something, and then what happened?
I had this voice in my head talk about self editing.
It's like, oh, who cares. Nobody gives a shit about that.
Nobody cares about an episode you and Tiff recorded three
(07:13):
years ago, an episode we did, an episode about waking
up super early in the morning. That success it depends
on so many things. You jumped into it from an
epigenetic perspective, and I jumped into it from a like
I don't know so if I wake so if I
(07:35):
wake up at eight in the morning, in the morning
is like like leadership and success and happiness completely not
available for me. Like what if I'm more of a
night ow unless of like a lark? Is that what
you call it? I love early mornings. I live for them.
But what if I didn't, Like, is there anybody who
wakes up late stays up late that's got it going on?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Totally is But also, you know, I was just mentioning
this this morning because we just had daylight savings here,
which is that our clocks get changed by an hour.
Super annoying in this instance for me, super great because
I was getting annoyed that I kept waking up at
four thirty or five o'clock naturally, just consistently, and I
would like to sleep until six. And now, since they
(08:22):
like savings, I'm sleeping at six and I'm still and
it hasn't messed up my bedtime. So I just, you know,
pretty chuffed about that. Changed world has changed my favorite.
But the problem is it's not gonna last forever because
I think it going to change the clocks again.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
I hate daylight savings, especially when I have friends and
colleagues like yourself. I just get used to all the
time differences around the globe, and then there's just one
week where I am just a nightmare and I miss.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Everything I have found it since I've known you, a
struggle to just even know what times earn you're in.
I feel like I've always for.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
You are for me because I'm curing on it for you.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
And then by the time you and I get into
sync with it, then we have a daylight savings change,
and it changes and it completely throws me out more
than it ever should.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
I think that is the biggest We've never had a
falling out in our friendship, but I think any rough
patches we've gotten into have been related to daylight savings.
In one way, shape or form, because it's quite frustrating
when you play any whole day around. You got so
many things going on, and it's like, oh, I missed it,
and I missed the podcast with you yesterday.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
I just want to confess, public completely left me hanging.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
So here's the thing I had dury duty. I was
very concerned about the jury duty because you can get selected,
freaking you don't know how long you're out, and people like, oh,
can you present on this day for this group of people?
And I'm like, I don't know. It's like you can't
really go through your career with I don't know. I
don't know if I could do this, Well what about
this day? Maybe but maybe not. So let's say eighty percent.
(09:58):
That's that's not really So. I had all this anxiety
and ever since it's not like I wasn't selected for
jury well, I wasn't selected. It's not like I was
dismissed for anything I did. But when I got home yesterday,
I was so burnt out. My brain was fried. I
think I was a lot more anxious about this whole
jury duty situation then I allowed myself to believe because
(10:23):
I am useless today. But yes, ja. I was flying.
All the way through jury duty. I was wired. And
then the second they were like, all right, we've got
our jurors, we've got our alternates, the rest of you,
thank you very much, you can go home. By the
time I got home, I was a mess. I couldn't
think straight.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Part of that because the drinking, that's part of that.
Because it was undecided whether or not you were going
to be in it. So like if you just went
I'm in it, and then if you weren't in it,
then you're like, oh, I'm not in any more.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
The decisions there, that probably would have been a better
way to approach it.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
That's like how you should do things from now on.
In decisions, indecisions horrific Like I decision fatigue. You mentioned
it before the show, decision fatigue. Making decisions. I'm the
worst at it. If someone reaches out to me, if
I ask someone to come on the podcast and I
send them the booking link, then they reach out and
they need it alternate time. Oh my brain. I almost
(11:22):
feel it get heavy inside my head, like another decision
I need to make. But if someone reached out and
said I can't do that time, but can you do
this or this easy because I don't have to make
the decision. I just have to say yes.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
I'm probably suffering from decision fatigue, which explains what I'm
wearing today. Like do you see what I'm dressed? Like,
look at the state of me today. This is ridiculous.
I don't know why I reached it. Clearly, I reached
into a closet and grabbed the very first thing I
can find.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Well, you have to describe toever all of the listeners
now who can't see you wearing.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
I'm wearing a brown mesh hat, which is weird. I'm
wearing like grand grand father glasses, and I've got a
blue T shirt but over that I've got a short sleeve.
It's kind of like a Hawaiian thing, but it's not Hawaiian.
It's this weird pattern. It looks like I'm one of
(12:22):
those old tourists that can't really find their way about town.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
If you look, if I close my eyes as you
described that, I would not picture what you're actually wearing.
I would picture something completely colorful and outrageous. The blue
shirt doesn't look blue. It looks like slate gray from here,
and the shirt at the top kind of looks gray
with a pattern that's not at all Hawaiian.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
That's why style it's kind of Hawaiian but not Hawaiian.
So imagine a Hawaiian shirt that's not at all Hawaiian.
That's kind of what I'm wearing. If you can imagine
this shirt is.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
So it's just a ship. Anything that mikes Hawaiian. Ship
Hawaiian is the fact that it's a wine I get
and it's just a certain cut.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
You know. You see the geezes they're out there and
they've got the Hawaiian shirts. Ship. No, this is like
a shirt that I should be wearing with shorts that
are too long for me and socks pulled up, pulled
up to my knees with oh oh, with the with
(13:31):
the thongs over the socks. You've seen those people. Yeah,
I feel like that's exactly what I'm dressed like. I'm not.
I'm wearing like full trousers and stuff.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
But tell me about your comedy course.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
It's good, Okay. So the first couple of weeks I
rocked up and I'm the first class. I was exhausted
and he pulled me up on stage and this is
where he's like, so what are you going to talk
about what are some of the things that's tell me about,
like what you do for a I was like, oh,
it's very complicated. There's so many elements to it. I
don't really want to waste everyone's time. And he's like, oh, well,
(14:07):
you know just what excites you in life? And I
was like, I don't know. I like being here. This
is great, and he's like, well, so tell me some
funny stories. I was like about me. He's like yes,
about So halfway through, trying to kind of tease out
what I was going to create a set around my
(14:30):
poor teacher. He had his head resting in his hands
and he's just shaking his head back and forth like
he was in extraordinary physical and emotional pain. So then
I went to the next class and I got up
on stage. I had written this whole skit, but I'm
really bad on my mobile phone. So I'm going through
(14:50):
my notes. I'm like, oh, wait, I lost my spot.
Hold on, let me go wait, hold on, I'm sorry.
Can I start again? Let me do that? And he's
just sitting there staring at BE like why are you
my karmic debt? Like what have I done? Like? You
you are definitely retribution for all the evil I've ever
committed in my life at any age. And then I
(15:12):
didn't make it to a class because work came up,
so I had to miss it, gonna miss it on
the class this week work. And then I was on
my club on my way to class, the last one
this week, and I was like, you know, screw it.
I'm just not gonna pull out my notes. I'm just
gonna get on stage. I'm gonna do the best I can.
I'm gonna remember as much of my set as possible.
(15:35):
And I just got on stage and went for it.
It's like, you know, if you would slow down a
little bit and wait, pause in between beats, that's a
perfect set. You're ready to do your show. I was like, what,
I'm doing a show. So now I'm doing a show
this week, so coming up on well next week, really
(15:58):
not this week, the week after this week, which would
be next week. Wow. Okay, So it's how long do
you show?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
How long did you beat?
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Oh? It's about a ten minute set, which is great,
And I've got my material laid out and I'm just
gonna just rock up and have a little bit of fun.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Are you terrified? At all.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
No, obviously, no, No, I don't think I'm gonna be
terrified until the day off. The day off, I'll be
like really terrified. But I try to reserve my terror
for when I really need it. I don't want to
be terrified now and just use up all my terror.
And then I get on stage and I have no
butterflies to like channel and really drive the right beats
(16:43):
and shifts and intensity. I need to back down a
little bit, like like pull it back and just slow down.
Because I got up on stage. I got up on
stage in class, I was like, this is gonna suck.
So I just like I wow, hammered it, just flew
through it, and I was like, yeah, you should have
slowed down a bit. And we had two other working
comedians in the room, which made me very nervous because
(17:07):
this other guy was like given notes from the back
of the room. So you have the teacher and then
you have like his friend who he got up but
he's hilarious, this guy. And then this other dude walked
in the room and you know, you know when someone
just looks funny, not being funny looking, but you're like, oh,
this guy is a working comedian. So he was up.
(17:27):
So I had three working comedians in the room and
I was like, oh, let me just get past this
and just I don't know, spare as many people in
this class from pain and suffering. They loved the set.
I was so surprised, So I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
What are your strengths in comedy and what?
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Yeah, what appearance, physical appearance like from the neck up, hilarious.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Kids like you? What do you find net truly easy
and you're good at? And what do you have to
remind yourself? What do you have to to work at?
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Like?
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Is it timing? Is it tone? Is it content? Is it? Connection?
And presence?
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Like?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
And what are the what are the other aspects? I
think all of those, all of those you're good at,
or all of those you gotta work on.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
I think all of those I've got to work on.
I think I'm good when comedy is not expected, like
I am a I'm a laugh a minute at funerals.
But I think when I'm giving this seminar and I'm like, oh,
(18:40):
this is kind of funny, and I'm not thinking, I'm
able to throw things out there and make connections that
are just unusual and figure out what does the audience
laugh at and what do they not laugh at? Because
oh man, especially like I've told you that this has
been I'm coming out of it now. My presentations are
(19:02):
going back to the way they used to be. But
the past twelve months I've had some of the worst
presentations of my entire life for a lot of reasons
that we've talked about. With just overthinking self editing. Then
I have other people's voices in my head that are
not very supportive, highly critical, and which is just so weird.
(19:24):
Over preparing, just being so prepared getting on stage. I'm
almost going through a checklist in my mind all the
things you would tell people when you're training them never
to do. And I would throw out jokes and the
audience would just stare at me, like they know, they
know I made a joke and they know it's not funny,
and that never happened. So then you start getting thrown
(19:48):
a little bit, or you start making more jokes because
it's like, you know what it's on spite you might
not appreciate this, but I'm just going to stand up
here and entertain myself. And I think when humor's just
not it's it's not expected and you're able to throw
in that element and be quick on your feet. That
really works for me because the time, I mean, it's
(20:11):
not just the humor, right, it's the setup, it's the punchline,
it's the timing. And I think I'm really good at
doing that. But when it comes to doing stand up,
I kind of I think I put too much emphasis
because there's a lot of pressure, So sometimes my timing
is a little bit off.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
How do you Because comedy is a very curated thing,
you know, or maybe I'm wrong, but I perceive it
is something where you know exactly your jokes and exactly
what you're going to say and how you're going to
deliver it or how you intend to and it's about
refining that. So is it. It's it's very different to
(20:51):
your speaking style, isn't it? Or am I wrong?
Speaker 3 (20:54):
For me? It's not because here's what would happen. So
when I was on the road and I was giving
let's say anywhere from one to three seminars a week,
so yeah, so I would give anywhere from three upwards
maybe ten presentations a month. You start to throw things out,
(21:16):
just little things and test it. And so you throw
something out nobody laughs, no problem. Then you throw something
out again, nobody else. Third thing you throw out, people laugh.
I remember that. Three days later, I'm up in front
of a room again. It's the same kind of context.
I'll throw that at it again. If they laugh again,
it's like, okay, that's a pattern. So when you're constantly
speaking and you're experimenting with things, after a while you
(21:41):
know what's going to work. So you go out a
couple of months later and you're doing a session and
you can make people laugh throughout the whole duration, not
because you want it to be a comedy show, but
because if people are laughing, they're engaged and they're learning,
they're not just sitting there okay, and here slide sixty
(22:01):
seven as people are just going, oh my god, I
hate my life. I have no will to live any longer.
I think it's kind of the same thing with comedians.
You have to write every single day. And I'm not
meaning writing well, just show up and write, make observations,
go out and test that, and you have to be
willing to be shit in front of a room, and
(22:23):
then you might have ten jokes written down. Two of
them might really land. Okay, Well, I can get rid
of eight of them. I'm gonna keep those two, and
then I'm gonna write ten more. Now i've got twelve. Okay, wow,
so I've got like five now out of that twelve
that lands, I'm gonna kill that. And after a while
you start to put together a whole set, whether that's
thirty minutes or sixty minutes. I feel like that's what
(22:45):
it's been like for me as a speaker, although I
haven't written jokes down obviously, but you just figure out
what works and you try things. It's like, after a while,
you refine it. And I know when I say this,
and I know it's about timing because times what I'm
saying is not even funny. It's the timing and delivery
(23:07):
and the absurdity of it. And people just are in stitches.
Like in the fitness industry, like one stuff that. There's
a lot of things I used to say in the
fitness industry the fitness people can relate to. But like,
all right, well, you know how come like big guys
in the gym never trained with tubing. Well, it doesn't
(23:28):
make a crashing sound when you throw it on the floor,
and nobody's gonna laugh at that in another audience, but
fitness people because it's so relatable and you've been in
the gym with these massive people and they throw the
weights down you when the whole floor vibrates, they would
find that hilarious. And the rooms in stitches over something
that's not really funny. It's just when you introduced it
(23:51):
and how you delivered it, and maybe the contrast of
what you were talking about connected.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Does this to improve the way you communicate in other
completely different areas. So if timing, because I'm fascinated by that,
like when I watch I love watching comedians on Instagram
now it's my favorite. I just love And what I
love is just watching how their delivery and timing makes
(24:22):
just like you said, it makes something that's really not
that funny so funny. But the same has to be
true for communication in any respect, whether it's like serious
or or intimate communication or you know, what have you learned?
(24:43):
Has it translated?
Speaker 3 (24:45):
I think it's exactly the opposite. What works in a conversation,
what works in the pub, what works in a one
on one meeting or an office does not translate to
the stage. They're two totally different environments, and I think
it's a matter of not worrying about timing. It's a
matter of immersive listening because you never know how a
(25:07):
conversation is going to go. And like, let's say, right now,
you and I go into a meeting with four other people.
This is the six of us. It's not like we
go into a meeting we hand out Q cards. Okay, Jen,
here's what you're going to say, and you know, Fred,
you say this when she says that you have no
idea what's coming. So the more immersively you listen and
(25:28):
you're not thinking at all about what you're going to say,
the more present you are in the moment and you
know what needs to be said or what could be said,
how and when?
Speaker 2 (25:41):
And then how does that apply with comedy? So I'm
just like relaying the two together, and I get that,
But then there is a form of listening in comedy.
So I'm just trying to piece together how that really
curated because it's so top of mind for me right
now with what I'm what I've been doing and the
(26:02):
learned the speaking course that I've been doing, the program,
which is not my natural style and I don't like
it at all, but I'm looking at yeah, it works
for comedy, it works for acting. You figure it out,
but how do you how do you piece that together?
(26:22):
And and how do you while you're doing that, how
does that translate to still listening and observing and connecting
with the audience but running to your plan.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
I think you brought up something really powerful there. It
all comes down to listening. It's just what is the
nuance of listening in the environment you're in. I think
if you're on stage just almost like an mprov class,
which which probably has a lot more transference to everyday
(26:59):
life and nless you're someone who gives a lot of presentations,
if you're not well, okay, maybe it doesn't transfer to you.
But if you're someone who has a lot of conversations,
which is most people who are not hermits, it really does.
Where it's you're listening, so you're not thinking about what's
my next line? Okay, what's my cue? And then I'm
gonna jump out. And even if you all, even if
(27:22):
you deliver your line verbatim for what's in the script,
no two lines are of the same because you're not
ever gonna be presented with the same thing. The other
actor on stage might have a different inflection, they might
make a different choice, they might be feeling something different
in that moment, So how they deliver the same exact
(27:43):
words might vary. And if you're giving a line and
it's not it's not congruent with what was just being
given to you, it seems dis rhythmic, Like that doesn't
look like two people having a conversation. That looks like
two people aiming a monologue at one another, kind of
(28:05):
like a Wholemark film. Yeah, where I think, And I
think that's the key because in everyday conversation, if you
come in and you're you're open, and you're empty, you'll
probably do a lot better conversationally than you would if
it's like, Okay, well here's how I'm going to make
(28:26):
this point. You don't know what's going to be delivered
to you, so be in response to people rather than
just continually driving with an agenda, and that works. I
think that works in every audience. I know for public speaking,
there's definitely listening where you could feel the audience you're
with them. You kind of at any given point you
(28:48):
understand when they're with you, why they're with you, and
what that energy is in the room, whether it's it's serious,
whether it's lighthearted, whether they're more engaged or whether more
passively with you to where they're not going to interact,
but you know you have their attention and you know
when you lost them. I think you can't do that
(29:09):
if you're too focused on Okay, I got to deliver
my lines. Okay, and this is the punch. There's got
to be that dynamic tension between what you're there to
deliver and where you are in that room with the
people at any given point.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, what do you think is most important?
Speaker 3 (29:31):
My default would be listening because if not, just even
with people who make videos, they almost over time with
everything in the chat or everything in the dms. They
understand their audience even though there's not a physical person there.
(29:52):
I know when I do a lot of video like
camera work, sometimes that was traditionally very hard for me
because there was no feedback until I realized, oh no,
there is there's someone you're talking to there. It's like,
oh now, now now it's easier. Now I understand what
this is. So my default answer is I think everything
(30:14):
starts with listening. What do you think it is? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (30:21):
I think so, But I also am I'm really aware
that I'm biased to that at the moment, and because
I'm comfortable with that, so like I want you to
say that, and because I want to stack up more
reasons to continue to like, I'm really struggling with this
(30:42):
scripting of the keynote. This this process that I've that
I've gone through this year in learning, and you know,
I'll be delivering a talk in this way. I'll be
delivering this particular keynote at the end of this month,
and I still feel extremely uncomfortable with that process. I
(31:08):
feel like I will not have the ability to It's
not it's work, not just not working to my strengths,
it's really pushing. It's pushing me in areas where I
don't know if I have the ability to shine.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
How did you know that, hey, or how did you
arrive at that conclusion? That's interesting?
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Well, I think, and I'm not sure if it's just
people like different speakers. So I get that, and I
get that some however I deliver this, some people will
love it and some won't love it as much. But
I know what lands with me when I see speakers
(31:49):
and this I feel like this version that will be
evoked through this process of me is so obviously not
what I connect with, Like I, when I can see
that people aren't really connecting and just talking like you
and I are right now, Like I, when we're in
a podcast, we're just having a conversation and we're aware
that we're doing it for the benefit of listeners. But
(32:12):
I haven't curated, like we don't know what we're going
to talk about, and we listen and we go where
we go. And I love that because it's real and
there's that real human interaction. I'm listening, I'm interested. I
see that. When speakers aren't doing that, I see the performance.
And my sense is if I wanted a performance, I'd
(32:33):
go to theater and I'd watch theater. If I want
to go and see a speaker, I want to hear
someone tell me and teach me and talk to me.
But that's just my preference and not everyone's me. So
I'm struggle. I'm grappling with that at the moment. I'm
really you know, it's got me in my lip.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
It seems incongruent with your style, and it seems inauthentic
and the dynamic between presenter and audience.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah, And I think that because I'm very easily in
my head about things, and I don't have the great
I don't have the greatest memory to have that much
of a restriction on how this flows and goes, where
we go next and what and boundaries around it. I
(33:17):
think that that will be a real challenge for me
and make me feel so hyper aware of it that
it'll be harder for me to connect and be in
the moment and just be me, like I just want
to ruck up and just know that I'm My job
is just to yeah, I'm going to cover this, this
and this and this is this is the kind of flow,
(33:38):
but I'm just going to walk out and connect and
that connection will dictate the first thing that comes out
of my mouth, which I'll have an idea of what
that will be, but it might change.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
I wonder if those things have to be mutually exclusive.
Why did they have you script this course? You're aunt
is one of my public speaking courses. I had to
script everything as well. I was like, Okay, here's the story,
here's two points you're going to make, Here's where you
(34:10):
transition and how you transition. And I hated it. I
liked writing it, but having it as a medium of
delivery I was like, Oh, this sucks, But what was
their rationale before I chime in? Because I might not
(34:30):
know anything about what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
I think there has been there's been a lot of
benefit in really understanding the depths of how you deliver
a message and curate it in the strongest way to land.
I think there's benefit in that. But I I also
think when you teach, when you teach a course or
a workshop, you have to have a framework and you
(34:57):
have to sow how if I if I were to
have a workshop where I'm teaching people a skill set,
I have to have a framework to teach. I can't
just go Okay, well everyone's really different, so you'll just
do what you want. So we're given this, We've given
this to do, and it's it's gonna suit some people
more than others then, And I'm not saying that it doesn't.
(35:19):
The process isn't of benefit. It's been hugely of benefit.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
I just.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Am still very uncomfortable with whether or not it'll be
a great delivery method for me.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
So when I first started taking this class, I was
moaning constantly about descripting and then Amy had said to me, well,
that's exactly why this is the course for you. I
probably could have gotten this for several thousand dollars less
than when I paid, so I was kind of It's
kind of irritated, like when you sign up to a
(35:58):
course and you don't get what you thought you were
going to get for the money you're paying. So right there,
I was kind of disgruntled. So you've got to learn
how to deliver in a way that is not aligned
with your natural style. If it doesn't work, stop doing it,
(36:19):
but at least learn it, at least committing to commit
to learn it. And what I found that was useful
is it allowed me to put together, as you're saying,
a framework, but then the script was pouring concrete into
the frame. And then you go ahead and you go
through that script and you're practicing it. And then what
(36:43):
I would get on stage, and during this time I
wasn't getting on a lot of stages is the tail
end of COVID. A lot of my stages were virtual.
I would just let go, I know the framework, now,
I know where everything is. I'm not going to memorize
and regurgitate an entire script, although I know some people
(37:05):
can do that fairly. Well, that's just not my style,
and that puts a barrier between me and my audience.
So I was like, Okay, here's my framework. I'm gonna
go over it, go over it. Go the day of
I'm not even gonna look at it, don't give a shit,
and I'm gonna sit down and I'm just going to
be present and go.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
And when I'm saying like the past year I struggled
a bit, is for a lot of reasons, I wouldn't
let go of that framework. So normally, before I speak,
I'm listening to music or I'm listening to something, or
I'm moving my body, I'm getting into state. I'm not
going over anything, but you would see me going over
(37:50):
stuff like i'd be in the restaurant at the hotel. God.
So point one that is the point number two is
the point number three. If I could have, I would
have written things down out of my hand. Point one, okay,
four on point two point three, I was like, who
is this person? Why are you doing this stuff? And
what happens If you get on stage and you start
(38:11):
to sweat, You're gonna lose all your points, have nothing
to talk about. And I've seen that happen to people
and I've used it as an example because I think
the way we're taught and we're taught how to speak
by people who don't have a lot of skill in
public speaking, but they have a lot of anxiety. That's
not the person you want teaching you. And I was like, ok,
(38:34):
you need your power points and they need to have
all the content. And this is going back over twenty
years ago, probably two thousand and two ish, where it
was just a perfect storm. The projector did not work,
it broke, and the power point presentations that this this
(38:56):
guy who is going to present half a day on
and they never arrived, so he had nothing. He couldn't
look at his paper and just read from there. Nobody
had a PowerPoint a presentation in front of them because
you that was part of the hand afs. Remember the
three three slides on the page with the little lines. Yeah,
those were a lot of fun. And he had nothing.
(39:18):
He had nothing projected up on the wall. So now
what are you gonna do? And the answer is nothing.
He had to move his presentation to a different day.
He was so incapacitated. And for me, I was like, oh, okay, great,
I didn't really want to follow that PowerPoint deck anyway,
(39:40):
and it's just don't miss a beat. So you can't
really depend on that, but ah, it's it if you
can let go and be in a state of flow.
Having that framework and practicing it I think helps you.
You know, it's like any skill. You're driving a car
and you're hyper focused on you know, where you know
(40:01):
how to use the clutch, where your hands go, and
it's like you're not doing that every day. Is that
framework still there? Yeah, it's still there. Well, actually no,
it's not. You've got like one hand on the wheel,
another hand. Heaven knows where you've got that hand, but
it's not on the wheel, and it's just yeah, I
don't mean that, but it's doing other things. It's like
(40:24):
you're not even looking straight ahead. You're talking to people
in the back seats, so you're not even looking at
the road anymore. You're literally using the force to drive
down the road and get to your destination alive. But
I think that's because of all the attention you had
to pay to every little detail and follow that as
you were learning how to drive. It's kind of like
(40:44):
the you know, unconscious incompetence, conscious incompetence and as you
start to build and build to unconscious competence. It's kind
of like that process. And it's the same thing with everything.
If you go over it enough, it's delivered enough, you
could let it rip. That's what happened this past week.
It is like, I'm not going to stand up there
with with my little joke notes on my phone. I'm
(41:07):
just gonna go up and do the best that I can.
And it worked. Why Because I went over those jokes
so many times I kind of knew. Did I do
them in the exact order? Probably not. Did I mess
up a couple of jokes or the wording? Yeah, you know,
but so what, who cares? People get worked?
Speaker 2 (41:30):
And that's where this whole thing's meant to hand. You know.
It's like we script it, but then by the end,
you know it's basically not that tightly. But I just
get hell bent on it sounds ridiculous because and so
I find it hard to read through it because it
doesn't sound natural.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Yeah, the worst place you never I think this is
true with anything in life. You don't ever want to
get stuck in your head when you're trying to do anything.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yeah, it's especially in my head. That's a shit place
to get stuck.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
Yeah, nobody wants that, but I'm sure it's the same
in the ring, it's the same on a tennis court,
and it's definitely the same up on stage. I think
the more you can listen, right, and I'm not just
talking about words, I'm talking about nonverbal communication, body language movement,
The more you can be with either your partner, your audience,
(42:22):
even your opponent, the better you're gonna do in that
in that moment if you've prepared, and that's the thing,
because you can listen as much as you want if
you're doing a proposal. If if you don't have competence
but you have great listening skills and you don't have
nothing prepared, you're gonna get your ass kicked and whatever
arenaar you're in. But if you've got both of those things,
(42:44):
you've got to be able to trust yourself because you're
either gonna be in your head or you're gonna be
with the people around you. And in your head kind
of sucks because we've all seen people there and they
either they the panic or they choke, they underthink and
go blank, or they overthink and they triple all of themselves.
Neither of which is really good for the people watching
in the stands, and it's definitely not good for the
(43:08):
person who's actually in that arena. It's that whole thing
about can the people in the arena on the pitch,
can they hear the people in the stands. So you've
got all this declarative and then you've got this running editorial,
you know, declarative language versus people talking about stuff like
(43:31):
in the stands, it's always about about what should have happened,
what the person should have done, how they should have responded.
But that moment's even passed, so it's not about the
present they're talking about. It's kind of like that they're
giving their commentary on recent history and the people who
are playing the actual game can't even hear them. It's
(43:53):
just background noise for them. And I think we become
our own background noise when we're editing and going through
this whole conversation.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
About when in comedy, when you get laughs, like so
when you piece that together. So you go out and
you practice your bits in different areas and you curate,
Oh that work to put that one back in my pocket,
keep that, keep that do you find it? Sometimes different
(44:24):
types of people are laughing at different things that just
won't fit together, and you're trying to fit them together,
and you're like, oh, why is that falling flat now?
And you and how does that shape the type of
direction you're going? Because I think about.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
It comedy because I'm not a comedian.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
But yes, you're doing a comedy course and you're funny,
so you're kind of a comedian.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
But I've done stand up a handful of times, which
does not necessarily make me a community. I've never got
paid to be a comedian. It's like, hey, all right,
it's open mic night, get up there and humiliate yourself
for our for our immu. I mean that's fine. I
mean that that that sounds a lot like dating back
in high school. But I've never gotten paid for a set.
(45:11):
So I'm not a comedian. I'm definitely not a professional comedian.
But I've gotten paid as a speaker. And I know, yes,
sometimes it's you. Sometimes you're out of alignment, you're incongruent.
Sometimes it's the culture. So when I was doing a
lot of presenting in Australia or the UK and the
(45:34):
northeast of the US, the humors, the humor is kind
of nuanced a little bit, so there's a lot there's
a lot of sarcasm. It's indirect humor, which makes timing
all the more important, so it would land. But then
you go to other like even at the other end
of the country here, like that type of humor is
(45:58):
not gonna land. It's got to be a little bit
more direct. But you learn that. And it's like, so
what if you've got enough material, you just skip right
over it here, Because here's the thing I'm I've trained
presenters quite a bit, and I'm working with a couple
of people in my company right now training them to
be presenters. And they're brilliant, and it's like, you're gonna
(46:20):
mess up. So we had this presentation, Oh my god,
and it was it was virtual and one person was
the admin and the other person was the presenter. Now,
when you're a brand new presenter, this is like the
worst thing that could possibly happen to you. If you're
a season presenter, it's a non event and he's going
(46:43):
through his slides and there's even you know, sometimes you
engage in the audience and go okay. So I think
the question was how long does it take to form
a habit what do you guys think, raise your hand,
how many of you think twenty one days? Because that's
really common based on Novellid research at all. And then
how many of you think thirty or sixty? And everybody
(47:04):
loves that. They love to test their knowledge. He had
it on a slide like a pole, so he didn't
forget it, and it's like, okay, so every every point
he was gonna make, there was a slide for that
particular point, and then the PowerPoint disappears because when he
went to the pole, it kicked him out of the PowerPoint.
And he's like, all right, well, okay, so a little
(47:24):
bit of technical different culties, and I'm just sitting there,
Oh I feel I feel the full weight of what this,
what this guy is experiencing. But the fact of the
matter is the audience only knows that something's a big
deal if you bring it to their attention. So there's
so many things to do. One that's hilarious. Your PowerPoint
just disappeared, so you know, like, oh wow, powerpoint's gone,
(47:48):
so you can all go home sessions over. I forgot
you know, I don't. I don't remember any of this,
and so that's one thing you could do too. It's like,
oh good, the powerpoint's gone. Let me have secure question,
unmute yourselves and interact with the audience, or you just
let if something is causing you diress, the audience feels
(48:11):
uncomfortable with it now. So if you throw out a
couple of jokes and nobody laughs, who cares? Just keep going,
especially if you're in a presentation. It's about the content. Hopefully,
there's research you're talking about, there's stories, there's analogies you have,
there's takeaway points. There's not just comedy. That would be
a very disappointing corporate session. You know, comedy enhances it,
(48:34):
it's not the whole point of it. So who cares?
Just go on to the next joke. Don't be like
Richard Boyd and drop your trousers in front of the room.
That's that's n that's probably that's probably not the right
course of action. What's really interesting is how many times
(48:55):
Richard Boyd thought it was appropriate to drop his trousers
in front of the room. One organization that we were
working with nicknamed him Crocodile Undie because he was always
in his underpants in front of the room. It's like, no,
but there's context around this, and it's just what So
it was shock value. So I can't believe I'm naming him.
(49:17):
Oh I'm really calling him out here, aren't I? But yeah,
so Richard Boyd, he would have his all closer eyes
and think about the person that we care most about
and someone you know, coming into gym and imagine like
what we'd be anxious on behalf of them with, and
(49:42):
what we would want for them, what type of experience,
And it's like, okay, open your eyes. It's like whoa Okay,
wasn't expecting to see that good thing he remembered to
put his underpants on. Would have been a totally different seminar.
And he's like, this is how that person feels the
first time the coming to the gym. It's like, oh, right, okay,
(50:02):
they feel embarrassed, they're very vulnerable, they're exposed. But not you,
though you seem to be loving it. Dirty talk, but
I'm so did I if we're being honest. But it's
not the point. The point is he would use that
as shock value. And what's really great about that is
(50:25):
at least he was willing to take risks to make
a point and drive a point home. At least he
cared more about the audience and the point than himself,
because I know that wasn't comfortable. It's not like, oh great,
another opportunity to drop my trousers. He's not that kind
of guy. So it's almost like, Okay, I'm going to
do this.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
It's really clever.
Speaker 3 (50:45):
There is something about that where I'm okay being vulnerable
and embarrassed if it's on behalf of the audience. Now,
if you're working in any type of role where you
give presentations that in nine out of ten situations as
a career killer and in two situations it might be
a lawsuit. Some countries it's a felony. So don't do that.
(51:08):
But the point, the point is the point is that
I completely forgot my point. I had a point that
I started with and then I went all the way.
Oh yeah, if you're not making a big deal about it,
and if you're comfortable, the audience is going to be
as comfortable as possible and they're not comfortable, don't drop
(51:31):
your trousers next time, because if you're dropping your trousers
and the audience is uncomfortable, it is definitely your fault.
You've done it and a lot of mistakes. They just happen.
So mistakes just happened. Roll with it, unless, of course,
you dropped your trousers. That didn't just happen. You made
it happen. It's your fault. You're guilty, and shame on you.
(51:52):
Your mother didn't raise you that way.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
I'm trying to figure out a way I can wave
that into my canoe and drop my pants.
Speaker 3 (52:02):
And that concludes our episode of this.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
Keep your Pants On with Bobby and Cheeth.
Speaker 3 (52:11):
We've got a title, all right. So I'm on I'm
on LinkedIn. I don't really take any other platforms, seriously,
no disrespect is just not my thing. And I'm on
Robert Capugio dot com and I'm on the self help
at dot com.
Speaker 2 (52:24):
See you next time, Bobby.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
She said, it's now never. I got fighting in my blood,
got it, got it,
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