November 16, 2025 • 62 mins
This one hit me right in the feels. Sally Pymer and I went full circle... from addiction and trauma to the power of one simple, radical act: smiling. What started as a keynote-writing journey turned into Sally birthing this contagious 'Smiles with Sally' movement that’s flooding social media (and the Bendigo Times) with genuine human connection.
We unpacked how a smile can break barriers in hospitals, shift the mood in a room, and ripple into kindness that keeps going. Sally opened up about her own story - growing up with fear, loss, and the drive to prove her worth through exercise - only to discover what she’d really been running from.
It’s raw, it’s real, and it’s a bloody brilliant reminder that we’re all carrying invisible stories beneath the surface.
SPONSORED BY TESTART FAMILY LAWYERS
Website: testartfamilylawyers.com.au
SALLY PYMER
Website: empoweredwithsally.com.au
TIFFANEE COOK
Linktree: linktr.ee/rollwiththepunches
Website: tiffcook.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
She said, it's now never. I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm tiff. This is roll with the punches and we're
turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go
to court, and don't. My friends are test Art Family Lawyers.
Know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution.
Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in
(00:29):
all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples,
custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements
and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so
reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au. Sally Pymer, welcome to
(00:54):
roll with the punches and that is exactly what you
are about to do.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Thanks for having the heir tip. I'm excited to roll
with the punches and see what happens.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I'm excited just so everyone knows. The preparation that goes
into every episode of this is incredible. And I'll tell
you the process the processes. They show up and I
go anything you want to know before I hit the
big button and Sally was like, where like, Okay, what
are we going to talk. I'm like, that's your question gone,
(01:27):
there's no answer to that. See you. And then I
introduced so she's like, oh, I don't know what I'm
going to talk about, but neither do I. That's how
we roll.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Well, that's right, could go anywhere.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
But I've been really excited to speak to you because
you have just been through this grueling, grueling seven month
process by my side with our speaker journey with Jacqueline.
I just did a podcast last yesterday that went up
on someone else's show this morning talking about that, and
I'm excited to talk to you because I in the
(02:02):
middle of so we get to know each other every
week we're hanging out, talking to each other, sharing what
we give a toss about the most in the world,
and turning that into a keynote to share. But in
the middle of all of that, you have developed this
thriving content and community around smiling. Yes, mate, it is.
(02:25):
I have fallen in love with it, like it has
lit up my day, and I don't think you would
be aware of just how much. So thanks for that.
Tell us why are you're doing that?
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Well, you know what, when I started this journey seven
months ago, I had no idea I would end up
on a smile.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
So a lot of the stories so.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
I came into this seeking my keynote could go in
so many different directions. I've got a story to tell,
and I just wanted to tell my story. And I was,
you know, probably like a lot of people that go
into the speak of course, I've got this to tell,
and I want to tell this, THECS and this, but
having so much to talk about that you kind of
(03:08):
got to refine it down. And I thought I was
going to talk about my relationship with exercise addiction and
being an alcohol and other drug worker, or I could
talk about my brother, I could talk about my athletics
and where do I land on a smile? And I
think the thing is, it was like a common thread
through all.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
My stories was a smile.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
It was And I didn't actually realize that until I
started writing stories and getting my content that it was
this story.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
The connection was with a smile.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
And you know, when I was working in the emergency department,
a smile would break down barriers, and you know, there's
people who couldn't talk, and I worked with people with disabilities,
and it all came all came back to a smile,
And I think once I landed on it, it just
I struggled with it for start, because I thought, who's
going to want to think a message about a smile
(04:02):
is actually going to go anywhere? Like just smile and
people go, oh, yeah, I can do that. But I
think when you actually get the reason behind a smile,
it actually is a whole lot more meaningful because it's
not just a smile. There's so much to it and
it breaks them barriers and it makes you feel good
(04:23):
and yeah, it's just I don't know. I'm still kicking
myself going, how did I end up here with a smile?
Like seven months ago? I never thought that? And you've
got merchandise? I went, oh my goodness, like what how
the It's been the craziest ride. And the longer have
gone on and gone with it, the more people have
(04:45):
bought into it and go, yeah, like you know there
is a message here.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I love that so much and it's like it's powerful
and you like, you've got a newspaper column mate, Hello.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
I know get that.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
So I never I never expected that as well. But
I think often like in media, there's so much negative talk,
Like I think there's so much negativity in media, and
people have spoken to us said they they're actually looking
for some positivity and something that you know, makes them
(05:18):
feel good. And I think that. So my column is
called Smiles with Sally, so I think it sometimes brings
in that positivity about the benefit of a smile, but
it also has that message behind it. So you know,
I bring in personal stories and I bring in educational
component of it about why smiles it's important. Yeah, And
(05:41):
you know, I spoke about my granddaughter one week, who
you know, she's twenty months old, and she was smiling
absolutely everybody.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
She didn't care who you were.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
She didn't care it was at the football, she didn't
care what team you're brak for. She didn't care that
there was like a couple fighting in the car, there
was another guy who was on oxygen, quite sick.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
She was just way their little hand around and it
was beautiful.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
But it was amazing because people just stopped and connected
with her, and like she wasn't speaking, all she was
doing was waiting, but she had this amazing connection and
she was actually communicating with them by just presence and
being seen and just acknowledging them, not caring who they were.
It was just this beautiful moment that you know, I
(06:26):
think sometimes the young people can actually we can learn
from them a lot because they don't have that judgment. Yeah,
and when we get older, judgment tends tends to come in.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
So it's.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
It's interesting to bring in stories like that. And you know,
the more I've done the columns, the more people said, oh,
I've got this story, and I've got this story, and
then all of a sudden people can bring out stories
themselves of a smile that's impacted them. Yeah, it's it's crazy,
really crazy.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
It's like it's it's got such an impact because it
puts the top of mind, it puts it in your awareness.
You know, when we met at the airport before, accidentally,
before we jump bumped into each other, and remember the
lady at the baggage carousel grabbed me and was like, oh,
you got to come over here, and she did my
little thing for me and I was like, oh thanks.
(07:20):
And then she was commenting on I help you because
you're really nice, and I was like, oh thanks, Like
I hadn't gone out of my way to be nice.
I was like, oh, she goes especially for Jetstar. I'm like, well,
if you don't like jet Stary, you probably shouldn't fly
jet Star and she high fires me and we have
a laugh. And then the Uber driver was the same,
like I was excited because I was going and I'm like,
(07:41):
it's funny, we're going on a holiday. Everyone at the
airport's assumingly going on a holiday. They're going a good place.
She'll be excited and everyone's miserable. Well, yesterday I went
to the doctor surgery. I had to go get a
blood test, and I'd given them there. I given myself
an hour window for my next appointment. This will take
five minutes, but let's be honest, they'll take an hour.
(08:03):
And so I waited my full hour and I got
in and I got my test. I'm like, oh, I
just need this, and the doctor, the lady I hadn't
seen her before, she goes, thank you for being so nice,
and I was like, oh, yeah, well it's public holiday
and you're working, so because they were flat out yeah.
And what occurred to me is, in all these instances,
(08:26):
I actually hadn't gone out of my way to be nice.
I just wasn't a dick. I just wasn't an asshole.
It was because like, why can't change the fact that
she's now late, and so deal with it. I just
didn't react to it. And it's interesting how we tend
to go out of our way to be shipped to people.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
I think I think it is.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
And you know, we can be shit to people, and
and I think we're not so aware of it, but
perhaps we are. I think we pick up on other
people's emotion, So if someone's been a bit shitty and
a bit off, we pick up on that. So, you know,
we pick up on the environment around it. So you know,
if you're nice and you're the impact that you would
(09:11):
have had Chip is probably you were nice to that doctor.
She might have had shitty people all day up until
then the next patient that comes in, she's probably gonna go, ah,
there's nice people out there, and she's going to be
more pleasant. I mean, not that she would be pleasant,
but the impact of you on her, but being nice
will mean that that next patient is probably going to
get really good treatment as well. And then yeah, it
(09:34):
just has this whole ripple effect. Yeah, and I think
we just don't understand the impact that we have on
others so often, and like you said, just being nice
you make someone's day, and you know, like you said
the Jetstar people, you know you'll be nice. You know,
isn't it automatically that you're just nice to people? Like
why do we want to be why do we want
(09:56):
to be nasty to people?
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Yeah? Yeah, I guess The point. The point I want
to make, which I probably didn't make when I said
it was reading seeing your content all of the time,
is like I see this big photo of a beautiful
smile of some sort and then a story or a
quote or a message, and you are pumping that into
(10:18):
my world and it actually increasingly so it makes me smile.
It shipt. I feel an energetic shift. I'm like God,
And then I feel really happy for you because I've
seen your growth. I've seen you manned around find this
path and then make something of it. And I think
that that's really special. And to feel like that's had
(10:40):
an effect on me just as an observer in the group,
it's beautiful. So keep it up, mate.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Yeah, well that's amazing, and thank you for that, because
I think often you don't know, you don't know the
impacts you're having. So the fact that you're thinking about
smiling and you're actually phats smiling at people and doing
that is huge, Like that's massive because you know, like
I said, that riper effective.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
You doing that will go out wider.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
So you know, you know I do this article, you
start smiling, the people you come in contact with, they
start smiling, and then they start smiling, and then all
of a sudden, you know, we've got this real lift
in the world of people who are just genuinely nice
people and connecting and happy, and you know it. Then
you're looking for the positives in the world. You're not
looking for the negatives. So you know, I want to
(11:32):
live in a world where I'm focusing on the positives
and where I'm excited about life. I'm excited about connecting people,
not a world where you know, faced with people who
are who are unhappy. But we all have a we
all have a place to do that and we can.
I mean I think often we think we're not powerful
to do it. Like you know, the impact you had
yesterday tip would be so powerful as well.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
The small things. What do you what did you think
going into that? What do you reckon the most likely
of your personal stories you thought you were going to use?
And can we hear that?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Oh see, I have so many personal stories, I think
I think probably a personal story probably where this probably
came about more was me working as an alcohol and
other drug worker. So you know, most recently I've worked
in the hospital as an alcohol and other drug worker,
(12:32):
working with clients who have been stigmatized. They're reluctant to
get support, and I'm often working in that space. Alcohol
and other drug workers are often the last line of support.
Like we often comment about it that they'll be rejected
all the way along and so by the time they
get to seeing us, they are so flat and so low.
(12:55):
But and often you have your head down feel stigmatized.
You meet them with a smile and a hello, and
immediately they feel worthy, they feel seen and that they matter.
And I was so privileged to hear amazing stories and
meet the beautiful people by just having that connection straight away.
And it all started with a smile, because that's first reaction.
(13:19):
So you know, I met a patient out on the
foot path and I smiled, and immediately she went, you're
a safe person, and she clung to me and I
sat with her the whole day. But if I had
a greeted her with oh, what are you doing here,
and that grumpy frown. The response from there could have
been very different and she might have run away from support.
(13:40):
Got oh, you know you're you know, you just stigmatizing
me like someone else. But you know, and I guess
by talking to a lot of people, I realized we
are so much more similar than different. And this world
is very dividing it. You know, it's very easy to
put you in classes. This is where you belong.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
Here.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
We are here and not really acknowledging that. You know,
we all have our own pain. We're all trying to
escape from something, whether we want to acknowledge it or not.
We just have different ways of reacting to it.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
So and I guess, go back to me.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
I had an exercise addiction while I'm working as an
alcohol and other job worker. So I'm being congratulated and celebrated,
like I'm going to the World Championships over in South
Africa and America, so I'm amazing, But deep down I
was running from pain, and you know, exercise was my
main way to cope with it. But when you're hiding
(14:38):
under exercise, no one questions that they think it's healthy,
and so it's almost like, you know, reinforcing that this
behavior is okay and it's acceptable and keep going where
deep down it's like, I'm this little person in here
crying out for support, but I just don't know how
to stop. Where other people I'm dealing with alcohol drugs,
(15:01):
you know, you've got to give up. You're stigmatized. But
similar thing running from pain, just different ways of coping
with So it was such an ironer.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, what took you into working in drug and alcohol
and was it were you conscious of that was what
was taking place in that moment or is this a
reflection that developed.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
It was a reflection that developed. So my passion was
about prevention health promotion. So I wanted to get into
health promotion more the you know, you've got to exercise,
eat healthy. I was trying to work my way into
that field and a job came up that was health
(15:44):
promotion in regards to drug and alcohol. I got into
that position was two days a week. My manager at
the time there was a job coming up as an
alcohol and other drug counselor and she said, oh, you've
got a psychology background because I stay psychology UNI. She goes,
you could do that, and so I did. I got
(16:06):
into it, and then I went, oh, oh, it became.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
And then the awareness came then.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
So I didn't when I was so caught up in
that exercise addiction, I didn't know what was going on.
It was just what I did. I had this drive,
I've got to exercise, I've got to keep going and
you know, going to withdraw. All the days I didn't
do it, but I was not fully aware. I think
it was so subconscious. It was just this is just
what I did.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Was it a moment or a revealing of moments that
started to get you curious? Was it a smack in
the face or a bit of a oh, what's under here?
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I think it was actually a revealing after I after
perhaps COVID hit and I had to slow down. I
had to stop, and you know, I'm going, yeah, I'm
going through withdrawal things at home.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
I can only you know, run five kilometers from my home.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
And I think it was actually when I got out
of that space, I think I understood it a whole
lot more. Perhaps my journey over the last seven months
as well, I guess in writing my keynote and you know,
getting the stories has been a bit more of a
It was probably a smack in the face more then
I guess when I saw the difference. But yeah, I
(17:27):
guess seeing the relationships of you know, there's a shed
full of beer just to be prepared, like, you know,
I'd packed my lunch every morning just to be prepared
in case I ran out of time. And there was
all these little moments that made sense afterwards. So it
wasn't like oh boom, like this is what happening. It
was like, oh, oh, oh, now I understand, and yeah,
(17:53):
it just gave me a greater understanding of other people,
I think as well, and it gave me that real
passion to break down those barriers and go, hey, you know,
we are more similar to different. You know, we've got
these escapes and things.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah, do you feel like you do you feel like
you saw more of yourself in the people that you
were working with and learned from there, or you learned
more about them by seeing that in yourself, Like which
does that make sense? Which which direction worked stronger for you?
Speaker 3 (18:25):
I think I think it probably worked stronger for me
in that I saw myself in the patients and clients
I was working with. And it was actually quite interesting
because you know, when you work in alcohol and drugs
sometimes clients will say, what's your problem because they assume
that if you're an alcohol and other drug workout, you
(18:46):
must have had a problem. Yeah, or they assume that,
or they assume you never know, and so yeah, it
but slight and they often I would talk and they go,
you seem to have a stand me like many others haven't.
And I think that's when it kind of started to
hit me a little bit too. Well, I do understand you, like,
you know, why wouldn't I? But not probably putting two
(19:09):
and two together that my exercise was the same as them,
So I think it is. I think it is more
I did see myself in them. That's a very good question. Tip,
that's a very good question. Yeah, I haven't forget.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
I imagine it's really hard to build rapport with people
who who can't relate to what it's like. Well, if
you don't understand what I'm in the middle of, Like,
how hard is it for us to understand drug and
alcohol addiction when we don't have a relationship with it? Yes,
(19:48):
Like how did you build rapport and trust with those people?
It's incredible?
Speaker 3 (19:52):
And I guess you know, when people would ask my history,
I would never say what my history was, so my
go to respond would be, I will never truly understand
what you've been through, but I will try to understand
you as best I can, and in a way of
and in saying that, it acknowledges though that you know,
everybody's situation is different. So I can never truly understand
(20:15):
someone because you can say, oh, I understand, and you
know you don't understand.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
You're not me.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
So by that response, it break down. The barrier said, hey,
look she wants to understand, but she understands that she's
not me. And instantly it's like, yeah, she's a safe person.
She actually understands. Yeah, to do that, So I mean, yeah,
there was and you know, there were responses for people saying,
(20:42):
you know, if you've ever drank, how can you understand me?
So or if you have, like if you have been
using drugs and alcohol, how can you be here giving
me advice because you're a bit of a hypocrite. So
there was never a like, there was never a safe
It was always a neat. It was a lose lose
situation no matter what my response was to question, which
sounds interesting, but that's it. We can never truly understand
(21:05):
other people. We could just start to it as best.
But but I think I think having that exercise addiction
did give me that insight and understanding of withdrawal and yeah,
what people do to run and to cope with things.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, I find it fascinating to you know, like I've
always been fascinated by this, this personal development space, this
self awareness space, and this idea. I remember when I
the very first conversation I had with doctor Bruce Perry,
who I love, love love. You've heard me rave about
him because he was on the show again recently. But
I remember explaining to him my background in childhood trauma
(21:47):
and explaining to him that I found the boxing at
twenty nine. Over a short period of time doing that
that physical somatic kind of training, memories came up. It
brought it top of mind. I started journaling, was the
first thing. I just started writing things down. And I
said to him, I remembered writing in mid sentence about
(22:08):
my perpetrator, and writing in the middle of the sentence,
I suddenly, out of nowhere, wrote, maybe I should thank
this person because I wouldn't be resilient, independent, strong, I
wouldn't have all these traits that I now have. And
I wouldn't. I would not trade that for the world.
So and as I'm writing it, I'm like, shit, where
(22:29):
did that come from? And I said to Bruce, Yeah,
I'm like why as people like yourself and myself who
have taken a learning and gotten interested and looked for
answers and then want to offer solutions or offer insights
to others. My question has always been, you can't change
(22:52):
someone that's not ready. And I can see did this
Am I here despite me? Because of me? Did I
is it? Can I take credit for the work it
till guess I can see? And I'm aware of all
the deliberate things that I've done for many, many, many
years to shape my own mindset, to shape the way
(23:14):
I see the world, to shape the way I behave
and respond. But then these moments happen. So there's all
of that, but then the moments that matter, they just unfold.
So what I said to him, why did I write
that sentence like that? Wasn't that came through me? Not
from me? And yes, maybe because of all the background work.
So it's like, how do we how do we operationalize
(23:40):
that for others because they're not ready till they're ready.
How do we be the change? How do we create
the catalyst?
Speaker 4 (23:50):
Will you know?
Speaker 3 (23:51):
It is interesting because like you said, and I was
gonna say, that's quite powerful, too, Chiff, to come up
with that thanking your perpetrator like that, you know, it's
so huge, but to actually have that acknowledgement, and I
think it's it's when you look at those your experiences
and use them as strengths to make you go on.
It's a whole different perspective and way of looking at
(24:11):
But like you said, you cannot get people to change
if they're not ready, and that can be frustrating for people.
It can be frustrating for us if we can see like, oh,
you know you could change, and yeah, there's so much,
so much potential. But I think it is it is perspective.
But you know, like I've done a lot of work
on myself to Tiff, and it is hard, Like you know,
(24:35):
I think sometimes you're hard to it's hard to actually
tap into what's underneath there. And will I be the
same person? Like you know, if I tap into this,
will I be the same person? And will I like
who I am? Because I think sometimes we can hold
on to our trauma and what's happened to us as
our identity? And then you know, if we're trying to
(24:56):
heal and get over that, what happens if I don't
like the person underneath? Because I've spent years, I've spent
years excepting that this is who I am, and what
if other people don't like me? So I mean, for me,
that took a lot to actually try to go there
because this fear and you know, you know, and people
using substances, some of them have this identity that I
(25:18):
use drugs, I drink.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
That's just who I am.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
And you know, when I'm talking to them, I say,
if i'd say I'm an alcoholic, I say, no, you
are no an alcoholic. You might have a problem with alcohol,
but you are not an alcoholic and that is not
your identity. So I think it's a matter of being
aware that you know, you shouldn't have to fit a mold,
and there's a lot of freedom in that, I think,
(25:42):
in not being stuck in this little box and this
is this is who I am. I'm not sure if
I've answered your question there, but if.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
I don't even remember what my questions are, so it's cool.
What I want to know what came, what came up,
what was beneath So when you start this unfold, you're like, Okay,
I can see that there's an unhealthy patterning with my
relationship with exercise. Yeah, did you know what was underneath
it you did that unfold? Or was there digging to do?
(26:14):
Because I find that interesting too, like what, Yeah, we
can know we're running and not know what we're running from.
We can watch self sabotage play out, and there's areas
where I still do and can and I can be like,
I'm only making my best guess to go. It might
be that, but it's so deep within my psyching that
I'm not actually sure, like I'm throwing spaghetti at a
(26:36):
wall here.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Look, I think mine. I have got so many layers
to what I've been running from, And to be quite honest,
I've often said I feel like I've always been in
fin or fight so so, and there's a lot of
self worth there, I think too. So I had an
older brother with disability, so he was five years older
(26:59):
than me, and just before my younger sister was born,
he went to live in the nursing home, which sounds
quite in it and which was fine, Like my parents
did an amazing job, but it was just too hard
to look after sport home. So I'm going from having
a brother who requires twenty four or seven care and
me probably a little bit more capable, and he goes
(27:20):
into hospital and then all of a sudden, I've got
a little sister come along. So it's like my brother
had been replaced by my little sister. And I had
a very intense fear that if I got sick, I
would be replaced as well. So from from a two
year old, wow, so I've got for a And it
(27:42):
only came to me at the age fifty that you know, well,
yeah so, and you know it only made sense recently,
and I've got goosebumps now hearing it. But you know,
I was very protective of my sister as well, and
such an intense fear that, you know, I thought, if
you got sick, you agreed to hospital, and you never
(28:04):
and you never came home. So you know, exercise for
me is a way of I'm keeping myself healthy and
things like that. But I spent my whole child to
pretending not to be sick. Like my dad would say,
have a cough, and I'm like, no, I'm okay, I'm okay,
So if anyone asked me if I was sick, I
would say no. So I had this real fear of
(28:26):
abandonment and I was like running. So it's almost like
this protection protection thing. And yeah, so he went to
hospital and he passed away when I was I was
nine and he was thirteen. Yeah, so yes, I guess
that's an abandonment thing. And that just tried to prove
(28:48):
my worth. So, you know, I've got to be the
perfect child. I've got to you know, I've got to
do well at school. I've got to be good at athletics.
I've got to be a nice girl. I've got to
be a kind girl because I'm getting be rejected. But
I'm thinking for a two year old space, not a rational,
you know, adult space. And like it was nothing that parents,
my parents did, or anyone did. It was just my
(29:08):
subconscious two year old who could not understand what was
going on. All I knew was if you went to
see if you were sick, you went to hospital and
you didn't come home. So it's cute, and you know,
and from there, you know, my brother passed away. So
there's the trauma around that. I moved towns a year later,
had to make a whole new lot of friends. Yeah,
(29:32):
and there's almost like, you know, my brother died a
year before, but when I moved towns, no one knew.
No one knew about my brother, So it was like
this secret past kind of thing, not that it was
a purposeful, but I was also scared of rejection too,
like if someone understands, if someone thinks I've got a
brother with disabilities, I might be rejected. So you know
(29:54):
that that that's there's that fear, like I've had fear
my whole my whole life. So exercise was feel good
hormones and stuff like that. But I got into swimming
when I was I was a competitive swimmer when I
was nine, which was the year my brother passed away,
So it almost became exercise became my coping mechanism straight away,
(30:15):
and it never it never left me. And I got
into swimming because I was sick, because I had asthma,
So it just became that whole whole flow and.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
Effect of what I did.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
So yeah, it's quite complicated, and you know, and then
when I was nineteen, I was diagnosed with chronic lung
disease and told i'd if the sema by the time
I was forty. So you know, I'm nineteen at UNI,
thinking I've got this whole life ahead of me, and
all of a sudden I've got to think about, you know,
I could possibly die when I'm forty, or I won't
(30:48):
be able to breathe.
Speaker 4 (30:49):
Or I'll be on oxygen.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
And yeah, it was just it just felt like it's
just a top of each other, that this just snowball,
so you know, keep fit and will be fine and
escape the fact that you're going to die when you're
aughty or and like I haven't, like I've been fine,
but it's just, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
By the way, still here to Sally Pimer, this is
real life right now.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
I'm still here. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
But it's a lot to have hanging over your head,
I guess, feeling like, you know, feeling like you could die,
but also that fear of rejection. And yeah, I think
a lot of goes back to that two year old
little girl who was so scared.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
I just couldn't verbalize how she felt.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
What I really love about about you sharing all this
is that acknowledgement that sometimes we get so wrapped up
in big, big stories of trauma that the little one.
It's how the seeds of what unfold like. For me,
that journaling really quickly showed me that the childhood trauma
(32:03):
that I had realized had taken place and greatly shaped me.
And then I learned about attachment theory and was like, oh,
I see there's a lot of behaviors that are playing
out here and they come from that. And then I realized, actually,
that stuff gets wired far earlier that actually the trauma
was a symptom of what had already happened. I already
(32:26):
had fractures in my relationship with the world before that,
and then the experience that then came into my life
was a result of that. So that was I found
that really interesting, and I think that's the case. It's
like we look at the it's like, oh, well, if
I haven't you know, if no one's like abused me
(32:51):
or hurt me or tried to murder me, I haven't
had trauma. It's like, actually, sometimes trauma is a two
year old belief because of one teeny tiny, little seemingly
from the outside looking in signal, like my parents bought
a shop at four years when I was four three
or four, just a couple of years ago. Mum said
(33:13):
to me, I we moved into that shop when I
was full, and I used to love getting you out
of bed and taking you to my bed for a cuddle.
And then we bought that shop and it was seven
days a week and I didn't get to do that anymore.
And that was just in that moment I went that
there it is. That was the abandonment right there. And
(33:33):
then I'm in this dark and my brother was seven
years old. So here I am growing up in this
shop where my parents are busy and they're unavailable, and
I've got everything I needed. This awesome. I grew up
in the most awesome place right living in a shop,
eating lollies, fucking carrying on. It was brilliant. But to
the part of me that was like, well, Mum used
(33:54):
to come in and then then we get busy, and
then we And I've seen a lot of things play
out in life that replicate the shit that becomes problematic
because of this one thing that happened right that wasn't
the trauma in adverted commas.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
I think it's so interesting, and that's it. I think
from the outside looking in, people would probably look at
your chiff and say you had the shop like you
could eat the lawlies, like you know, how could they
be trauma in that? But it often it is those
little things that can make a huge impact. And I
think that's where you can't disregard the experiences that people
(34:33):
have had and those little moments, because I think, like
you said, sometimes it's that big trauma and people think
that's what it has to be and what have you
got to be talking about? But yet and I think
it's you know, it depends on what age these things
happen to, Like you're very influential at certain certain ages,
and you know, I look at you know it's the
(34:54):
first thousand days have got a huge impact on your life.
And you know the first thousand days my life were
quite I had quite a lot going on with me.
Speaker 4 (35:06):
As well.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
But you know, like your age too, Like simple thing
of having that cuddle, there's probably a little chiss in
the shop thinking what about me, Like you know, they're
spending all this time in the shop, but here I am, like,
you know, I won't be these tuddles and I want
to be seen. And you know your parents would have
been doing the best they could in the circumstances.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
For sure, Like I have very few memories. When I
think of that time was in that shop seven years.
My memories, I can picture a very very dark house
out the back, or I can picture that house attempt
becaus they're always in the shop. But I have this
one memory. This is so funny, so funny. With this memory,
I'm in watching play School and I can remember this
(35:50):
scene on play School with it. So they have this
cardboard box and they're teaching us how to make an aeroplane. So,
because we'll having a shop, I go out the back.
I get a big cardboard box. I make this aeroplane,
and so I've tied string over so I've got it
around me. I've popped tied string around it. I've made
this airplane. And on play School they've got the background
of the sky with clouds and everything, and they're like
(36:12):
singing a song and they're flying this. So I run out.
I'm like, so I run out the glass door of
the shop to the shop, like out of the out
of the house into the shop, and I run down
to show I'm like, mom, I want to show her
this airplane. I'm so fucking excited. And as I run down,
I swipe all of the Worcester, shear sauce glass bottles
(36:32):
off the shelf and smash them with the wing of
my plane. And so the response is fucking hell differan
a loses a shit. So I just I can still
remember the feeling of just I was just so excited
by my plane. I wanted to show it to my parents.
And then I got in trouble, and I like those things.
Speaker 5 (36:56):
They and it's those little things that sticks, and they
come back at you at the least times, you know,
And that reminds me, and it kind of reminds me, like,
and you'd be so proud of that, Like that's amazing
and creative and you did that, and I'd be proud too,
and like and.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
I'll have to hear this. Keep telling me, mate, keep telling.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
Me you're so proud. I'd be proud about, like creative
and doing it.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
And but to have that, but to have that experience
that was so positive, to be smashed down like that
by you know, knocking over the source, it just it
just changes the whole, Like the story just changed. But
if you had not been got in trouble, you probably
won't remember it, Like it's probably just a little it's
(37:46):
probably gone and I remember I made the school cross
country team when I was ten, and I was so
excited and I was telling my parents, I've made the
school cross country team. But it was also the day
that my parents found out my dad had got a
promotion and we're moving towns, and they're more focused on
the fact that we're moving towns that have made the
(38:07):
school cross country team, which is this little tiny moment,
but it sticks in my head as well that, you know,
all of a sudden, it's like, well, you know, the
focus is on that, but you know what about me, Like,
I'm in grade four and I've made the school team.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
So especially given the story you had developed around health, fitness,
and achievement, right, so that like that had quite a
huge metaphorical hook to it, and then it was disregarded.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
Yeah, that's right. And it wasn't that they were happy
for it, it's just, you know, they were more focused
on that at the time, which I can understand as
an adult because having my own children, I go oh, oh, like,
there will be so many circumstances that my kids could
say the same things and I won't be proud of
(38:59):
because I got oh, I should have been listening. But
I know I've done that too, and I think everybody does,
like just not know.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
But this is the yeah, and this is the beauty,
well the beauty and the not so beauty of life
is it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter what you do. Like,
we aren't responsible. I mean I alluded to in the keynote.
It's our relationship with our experience the shapes is and
we can't. We can't do that for someone else. I can.
I can offer an experience, but I can't shape the
(39:33):
story that someone actually wraps around what they experience. I can't.
I can't change their internal narrative about my intention. My
intention isn't their experience. Yeah, And so all parents they're like,
they're all doing the best they can and doesn't matter
how good that is. They might do a stellar job,
(39:56):
but something can get a story rap around it because
something holds meaning to someone, because you can't be around
your kids. Twenty four to seven. I just wanted to
get a whipp it and a cat mate. So I
can't screw it up. We get a whippet and a cat.
I don't have the tools for this. And even that
is very bloody hard.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
That's funny, that's funny. Yeah, your cat's hairs like, it
has very interesting things that it does when you're.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
Away, so there is a lot of interest.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Yes, it's a cracker though it's funny.
Speaker 4 (40:27):
Did you.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Like for your self discovery self awareness journey? Did you
did that just come to you or did you start
to seek help or psychology or what was your process
of unpacking?
Speaker 3 (40:45):
It's actually very interesting because when I was working at
the hospital, I was in a room with another lady
in the office and she's doing a meditation course with
a friend of hers, and she's like, You've got to
do this meditation course and I'm like.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
I am not doing that. I do not have time,
Like that's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
Who would want to exact bed weakly?
Speaker 4 (41:11):
And in the end I signed up.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
And I did it just to shudder up and I
actually like, you're just going to keep aout it.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
I'll give it a go.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
And you know, the first two weeks I hated it
because I couldn't sit still and I was a bit
in protest. You told me I should do this, so
I'm not doing it. But after that I just ease
into it. And then and then as a result of that,
I'm listening to a meditation. I'm journaling and so all
of a sudden, I'm writing this stuff. And I'm quite
a visual person when I meditate, so all of a sudden,
(41:46):
some of these things that had not made sense and
been subconscious, all of a sudden came up. And then
I also did kinesiology, like I saw a kinesiologist, which
was amazing and and she helped me with that. But
I think even the fact that I actually stopped, like
the meditation, was just that way to stop and let
the world catch up, because that's what I needed because
(42:08):
while you keep running, you don't have time to deal
with all that stuff and the world won't catch up.
And I think a lot of people have that fear
if I stop, the world will catch up. So I've
got to keep going. So I think that's the big step.
You just need to stop and go Hey. Well, for me,
I had to stop and go hah, I'm just going
to deal with this stuff and let it and let
(42:29):
it come in.
Speaker 4 (42:30):
So it was.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
Not easy, but you know, I've seen I've seen psychologists
things and handy, but I think it's really that stopping
and diving in deep that actually has been very beneficial
for me.
Speaker 4 (42:45):
And to deal with it.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
We'll not deal with myself but actually let myself deal
with it, which is not as hard as what it sounds.
And I think that's what people think it will be hard.
It actually can be this huge release and feeling of
freedom when you actually can unpack some of those layers
and actually understand where you're coming from, because I think
sometimes it's this confused mess where when you can unpack,
(43:09):
you could take awareness can be everything. I understand where
I'm coming from. Now, Oh it's okay to feel like this,
like it's some probably sounds a bit strange, but that's
how it's coming about with me understanding of who I
am and acceptance of who I am.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Yeah, I know when I my first kind of self
awareness journey, for lack of a better word, my first
thing was like, what's the good? What's the point of
self awareness? Life was blissful before I realized it wasn't
like before I realized what was underneath my behavior. I
(43:49):
my story about my behavior was ripper. I was a ripper.
I was a superstar, like I was started a show.
And so there's this kind of for me, there was
this middle moment of like okay, because you know, we
like answers. We like to solve the problem. We like
to fix the thing. We like to Like I think,
without having the words for it or really acknowledging it,
(44:12):
I landed in a place where I went, oh, I'm broken.
Oh I'm broken because this happened. I just got to
find someone, Like my first few psychologists, I was got
to find someone that knows that I'm broken from this
and then they'll fix me. So I'm the same as
everybody else, Like that's a thing, Like there's this factory
setting that we all have, and so like I'm sitting
(44:33):
awkwardly in this in this room with this guy that's like,
what do you need? I'm like, well, that happened, and
now this like I don't know what's wrong, but that happened.
And I don't think I'm normal, Like I don't think
I'm the same as everybody, Like everybody's the same, Like
what a weird concept. The poor bastard, The poor bastard.
He was literally I've told this too many times, but
(44:55):
he literally session number four, he was like, Hey, it's
so tiff. Normally, by three to four sessions in I
have a deep sense of who someone is and what
they need from me, and I'm like, yep, yep, and
he's like, I just don't get that from you. And
I was like, because I was poker face, so I
was like, and I'm thinking, you're the expert of humans,
(45:15):
like you're the human that fixes humans, and I'm a
human that needs fixing. And if you don't have the
answer to fix me, fuck, I don't know. I don't
actually know what's wrong with me. I just know something
is broken.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
And that's a horrible space to be in, though, Like
you know, imagine that you're going for help and you know,
getting told getting told that.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Yeah, But I mean at that point I was still
quite disconnected from emotions. I still so I would have
these sessions and for years I would leave those sessions
and three or four days later, my emotional processing would
then catch up. It was like, oh, you're in a
dangerous metaphorical dangerous position, right guard up, don't feel, can't
(45:57):
feel poke face dissociation, have the conversations, yeah, cool, look
for the you know, I look for the quick fixed,
look for the problem solved, and then get out. And
then I would find that a few days later i'd
have this. I'd call it emotional angst. I'd just have
this kind of emotional breakdown over and nothing. I'm like,
I don't know why. But then I eventually went, oh,
(46:18):
this seems to happen two to three days after a
therapy session. That's that seems to be a pattern.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
You know.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
It was like just this process of bringing it closer together.
And then I was like, you know that, poor bastard.
So it wasn't I laugh about it now. I just
left kind of a bit confused with questions going, oh, fuck,
this bloke can't fix me wock out? But where do
I go now? Fix this?
Speaker 3 (46:42):
And because it'd be that failure being lost, like you know,
am I going to be like this forever? Like you
know and like different to everybody else and everybody else
can be fixed?
Speaker 4 (46:52):
And what about and what about me? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (46:57):
And you know that whole perception of normal, like you
want to be no normal because I think so often
look at everybody else and think, well, they're normal. I
want to be like them. But I think the more
you get to know yourself and other people's stories, you
understand that I've got the same sheet going on. They
are just very good at heightening it often as well
or you keep boxing, and you've got this amazing life,
(47:18):
and people think you're amazing. They probably think you're normal
even though you've got all this stuff going on underneath it.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
You don't want to be like me, guys, you do
not want to be like me normally my watermark of normal,
and that's no such thing as normal. And you know,
if there was help boring with the world or the
world be But I think when you strive to be
like that, you're always striving to be normal or to
get that one step or when I get here, I'll
(47:47):
be happier. It'll be normal when I get here. But yeah,
but you never really do. So, you know, once you
have that acceptance, I think of where you're at and
who you are and what you can control and deal with.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
I think it's just this really different attitude and perspective
and it allows you to see the positive things not
so much the negative and the ship that you're sitting in.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Yeah, and I think that's why I have such a
value for people just being you know, quite open and
vulnerable to you know, a in a safe way, you know.
But that's in the middle of that course we just
went through. My biggest fear was like I don't want
to perform something. I don't want the I don't want
to be performative. I don't want to say I've got that,
Like I am really comfortable and always want to be
(48:29):
comfortable to sit in the middle of the metaphorical mess
and say this like sure, sure I'm a coach. Sure
I'm a coach, Sure I run program, Sure I do
all this stuff. Sure I've got lots of resources for you.
But in the middle of that, I am a messy
human that probably still has a large level of the
(48:50):
lack of self awareness. In many areas of my life.
I've still got lots of hurdles that will challenge me
and to get over and ones that I probably not
even aware of just yet, Like I'm still in the middle,
Like I'm only forty two. Like I thought of this
earlier this year. I thought we think we I think
(49:11):
that we perceive, especially if we overcome something or identify
like yourself, you go oh this, Oh I went through this,
and I've figured this out, and then we think, so
I've it's like this level up, Like I'm up to
this level and this is my that was my story
and now I'm just getting better and better. It's like tea.
(49:33):
If you're forty two, like this probably got your life,
might have some serious shit that's going to unfold, that's
going to challenge you and break like this might even
be the tip of the iceberg. Yet you might have
some stuff in store. But we don't think of your
life that way.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
No, And you never know, So you know it's interesting.
You know, I spent my whole life trying not to
be sick, trying to protect myself. I don't want to
be an oxygen. I don't want to die. And then
you know, three years ago, I'm out walking across from
my house and I got stung by a bee. And
you know, I've been stung by bee as before, but
all of a sudden, I have this anaphylactic reaction, and shit,
(50:14):
so I have this anaphylactic reaction. I'm twenty k's away
from the hospital. I don't know what's happening, and you know,
I drive halfway in my heart's beating. I feel like
I'm being a vomit. I betting you feel like I'm
going to die. And as soon as I walk in
the doors, I've got people straight at me. And it's
just my perspective change then, because I thought I could
(50:34):
spend fifty years trying to prevent myself from being, you know,
sick when I can get stung by something as simple
as a bee and I can die be gone like that.
So you don't know what's ahead, but you know this,
this this whole perspective that you think you've got it all,
thought it out, but life can just throw you things
from any direction to challenge you and go, Yep, you've
(50:55):
dealt with that, Let's give your something else to deal
with them and add to your at your listen still
like hopefully it doesn't happen.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
But a good friend on the show, a neighbor of
mine and ages and ages go, and she had had
brain surgery and we talked about how she'd had this
ten year misdiagnosis period of time, and we were sitting
on the couch just chatting about it afterwards, and I
was like, what's funny, especially with the conversations I get
(51:23):
blessed to have all the time on here, where we're
talking about someone who's overcome something, and there's this level
of oh, like you, empathy for you, and sympathy. We
don't want sympathy, but you know like that, you know
that's the kind of energy is Oh, we've focused on
this and it's like I go on that day, I'm
like I could be sitting here with stage four cancer
(51:45):
and just not know, like this is the beauty of life.
Just before going to Queensland, I spoke to Tammy van Wisser.
She'd been on the show the middle of this year
and love hurt a bits, love love love. She was
we were introduced by metual friend and yeah, she's fucking
awesome human. So when I spoke to her before she
(52:06):
was in hospital. She's just been diagnosed with stage four
breast cancer. It is gone to her bones and her
lymph nodes and it's shit. And and I laid in
bed that night. She was absolute superstar, like, go, I'll
post a link everybody, there's a go fundme to fucking
sort her out. But I laid in bed and I went,
(52:28):
that's exactly what happened. I had her on the show,
we talked about her journey through that breast cancer a
couple of years ago. And whilst I'm talking to her,
she is sitting in a body that at that time
had stage four cancer that she didn't know about. Like
it's happening right in front of our eyes and we
don't fucking know.
Speaker 4 (52:49):
No, fan's it.
Speaker 3 (52:50):
You don't you don't know what's going on, and you
don't know what's her head. And you can be and
you know, I'm very much a plan I like to
know what's happened. But some things you just can't plan
and something beyond your control. And I guess there's that
awareness of it. You know, my my brother in law
died in a car accident. Like you wouldn't you wouldn't predict,
(53:11):
you wouldn't prick back at the age of eight, you know,
whole life, whole life ahead of him.
Speaker 4 (53:16):
So it's and like you said, you don't know, you know,
you have a heart attack.
Speaker 3 (53:23):
We've got very deep here, like we know we've gone.
We've got to a negative heretive.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
It's not negative, it's reality, you know what it to
remind us. It's a reminder that life is way too
precious to to worry about the ship we worry about
and to not live because the last thing I want
to do is if and when a like a moment's coming.
It might just be a moment of old age and
(53:50):
things declined, so that whatever but a moment is coming.
I had a cousin that just was in a in
Tazzi that was in a horrific is in intensive care
right now, is in a horrific unexpected car accident where
he was in no way the wrong He was going
heading to work and he got and that it took
two hours to cut him out of the car. He's
in his twenties, Like, it's bullshit, you don't know. And
(54:11):
I just don't want whatever my story is going to be,
I don't want to lay in that moment and have
never had these moments of reflection and conversation that make
me do the things to make to say yes to
the experiences and to remind myself that sure, you've got
goals and you want to work hard and you want
to achieve big, but you might die. And if you do,
(54:37):
and you and there's a place where you sit and
have a moment to reflect on the time that you
had in this physical world, will will you shake your
head and wish that you had one of these conversations
that sat in your mind and made you make different choices.
Speaker 3 (54:56):
Yeah, there's such an interesting thought, isn't it? Like about
the as the conversations that you that you do have
and the way you where you live your life, Like
you know, are you living your life the way you
want to have it?
Speaker 2 (55:07):
Now?
Speaker 3 (55:07):
Will you be proud of how you are and the
impact that you know you're having an impact on heaps?
Speaker 2 (55:14):
You?
Speaker 3 (55:14):
Well, you will, and you are with your keynote, Tiff,
and you know what you're saying with that, and you
know that's something to be proud of. But you know,
if you're doing stuff that you don't really want to
be doing and you're waiting for the right time, that
right time might never come. Like you know, I'm going
to do this later, and I want to do this later.
You never know, never know whether it will.
Speaker 2 (55:38):
I spent I reckon I would say maybe even two
to three of the last years aside from this one,
I pulled my head out on my backside. But I
have in the too busy spinning the wheels, creating my
own cage and complaining about it, Like I spent a
long time here before I was like, hey, Tiff, everything
(56:00):
that you don't like about the cage that is around
you right now is a cage that you have created
and the own And then all of a sudden this
year went from one of the hardest to one of
the best. And the only thing that had changed was
the choices I made and the decision I made to
(56:20):
get to change how I was doing things. And it's
like that is coming from someone who is in the
middle of these conversations. For years, I was having five
of them a week, at sometimes five of them a week.
So we can be I say it in the keynote,
we be the student and the teacher. We are always
you don't know what you're in the middle of. And
you can get so busy doing great things in the world,
(56:43):
but you're so busy in your own life that you
haven't stepped out to realize that your life is not
being lived for you.
Speaker 3 (56:50):
Yes, yes, And I think sometimes you can get caught
doing what you think you should do, or this is
what I've always done, and I'll do this, I'll and
I'll change later. I was in a job last year
where I knew it wasn't right to me, but I
was waiting for something better to come up, and I
was getting deeper and deeper and deeper. I'm getting satder
and sader and sadder, and were burnt out and I
(57:12):
knew it wasn't to me, but I just it was
what I knew, and stepping out of it was hard
to go for a job to nothing was like oh my,
oh my goodness.
Speaker 4 (57:21):
And but I had choice.
Speaker 3 (57:23):
I didn't have to stay there, but I chose to
stay there. And I've stayed there way too long. And
you can look back in hindsight and say that, but
when you're caught up in it, I think it's sometimes
harder because you're not on the outside looking in. You go, oh,
I just want to do I'm doing it. But it's
later on, like you said, you've had a great year
this year. You can probably look back better now and go, oh,
(57:45):
that's what was happening then, and you're out of your
cage and you're seeing how it can be so much
better when you get out of it. But yeah, there's
so many unknowns too, Like the unknowns are stepping out
of that company zone where you are now, and what
if it's not as good? And what happens if and
what happens if this happens? So this happens when really
you don't know.
Speaker 2 (58:05):
So, yeah, it's easier to it's easier to complain, right,
it's easy to complain about the action you didn't take. Then, yes,
face the consequences of an action you did take. That's scary.
It's like, oh, if I choose to do this and
it doesn't go well, then I'm going to beat myself up.
Whereas if I just keep doing what I'm doing, well,
I'm already doing it, so it's not my fault. It's
(58:25):
just it's just life doing it's thing with me. Yes,
what a cop out.
Speaker 3 (58:30):
It is a cop out, and I think so many
people are caught up in it as well, which is
that negative mindset which then ripples along because then like
if you're in a surrounded by people who are feeling
like that, it brings you down even further. And when
you catch up, it's about talking about the negatives and
how bad life is and how busy you are. Where
(58:50):
if you surround yourself with people whose smile or talk positively,
it boosts your mood and gives you the confidence to
do some of these things. And I guess I'll checked
a little bit, but not so much. You know, the
last seven months, being surrounded by people who are so
supportive and encouraging of what you do just gives you
(59:11):
so much more confidence to follow your dreams and to say, hey,
I've got something, and you know, I've got this team
who were just this gentle like pillows underneath that are
supporting you, who are not gonna let you fall, they
will gently lift you up when you need to. And
so it's just it's amazing the people you're surround yourself with.
(59:33):
Who will you know, encourage you and support you and
and live and almost live your dreams like your own.
Like you know, your keynote last week tip, I'm like, yes,
this is my sister.
Speaker 4 (59:46):
I'm clapping for my sister. He's doing an amazing job.
Speaker 2 (59:50):
Yeah, I feel you on that. It was such a
universal like just watching just to be able to watch
everyone come out of this and genuinely want to cheer
them like I want to help them, I want to
watch them thrive. It's so cool and I've missed that.
I've missed that in having a when you run a business,
when you run your own thing, this heats a perpse.
(01:00:11):
But you don't have a team, you're not a part
of something. There's no collective celebration. So to have that
collective celebration super bloody cool.
Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
Oh, totally totally, super super cool and I think, and
you know, a perspective also is you know, obviously we
only a few people got to do the keynote. But
I think if you actually see yourself as comrades not competitors,
it actually makes a difference in life too. You know,
if you're there cheerletting people rather than having jealousy, it
(01:00:45):
makes a big difference because we're all individual and if
we all accept ourselves for who we are and what
we've got to offer, we're not in competition with anybody
because we've all got our unique strengths to offer off
the world. And I think there's a great deal of
power in that. It's a great way to live life.
Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
I think, Mate, tell people where to find you, follow
you and get more smiles with Sally in their life.
Speaker 3 (01:01:10):
Oh look, everyone loves a smile, So I have I'm
on LinkedIn so Sally Piner. Facebook is empowered with Sally
and I've also got a website empowered with Sally as well.
Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Get on and everyone I'll have Yeah, I'll have links
to that in the show notes. You're amazing. I can't
wait to watch you keep on thriving and go far
and come and hang out in Melbourne again. Soon. Yes,
do that. Thanks for tuning in, big love.
Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
Thank you so much, Chief. This has been amazing, she.
Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood,
got
Speaker 5 (01:01:56):
It, you, Guestcaritu Articles charity
She said, it's now never. I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm tiff. This is roll with the punches and we're
turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go
to court, and don't. My friends are test Art Family Lawyers.
Know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution.
Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in
(00:29):
all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples,
custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements
and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so
reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au. Sally Pymer, welcome to
(00:54):
roll with the punches and that is exactly what you
are about to do.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Thanks for having the heir tip. I'm excited to roll
with the punches and see what happens.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I'm excited just so everyone knows. The preparation that goes
into every episode of this is incredible. And I'll tell
you the process the processes. They show up and I
go anything you want to know before I hit the
big button and Sally was like, where like, Okay, what
are we going to talk. I'm like, that's your question gone,
(01:27):
there's no answer to that. See you. And then I
introduced so she's like, oh, I don't know what I'm
going to talk about, but neither do I. That's how
we roll.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Well, that's right, could go anywhere.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
But I've been really excited to speak to you because
you have just been through this grueling, grueling seven month
process by my side with our speaker journey with Jacqueline.
I just did a podcast last yesterday that went up
on someone else's show this morning talking about that, and
I'm excited to talk to you because I in the
(02:02):
middle of so we get to know each other every
week we're hanging out, talking to each other, sharing what
we give a toss about the most in the world,
and turning that into a keynote to share. But in
the middle of all of that, you have developed this
thriving content and community around smiling. Yes, mate, it is.
(02:25):
I have fallen in love with it, like it has
lit up my day, and I don't think you would
be aware of just how much. So thanks for that.
Tell us why are you're doing that?
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Well, you know what, when I started this journey seven
months ago, I had no idea I would end up
on a smile.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
So a lot of the stories so.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
I came into this seeking my keynote could go in
so many different directions. I've got a story to tell,
and I just wanted to tell my story. And I was,
you know, probably like a lot of people that go
into the speak of course, I've got this to tell,
and I want to tell this, THECS and this, but
having so much to talk about that you kind of
(03:08):
got to refine it down. And I thought I was
going to talk about my relationship with exercise addiction and
being an alcohol and other drug worker, or I could
talk about my brother, I could talk about my athletics
and where do I land on a smile? And I
think the thing is, it was like a common thread
through all.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
My stories was a smile.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
It was And I didn't actually realize that until I
started writing stories and getting my content that it was
this story.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
The connection was with a smile.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
And you know, when I was working in the emergency department,
a smile would break down barriers, and you know, there's
people who couldn't talk, and I worked with people with disabilities,
and it all came all came back to a smile,
And I think once I landed on it, it just
I struggled with it for start, because I thought, who's
going to want to think a message about a smile
(04:02):
is actually going to go anywhere? Like just smile and
people go, oh, yeah, I can do that. But I
think when you actually get the reason behind a smile,
it actually is a whole lot more meaningful because it's
not just a smile. There's so much to it and
it breaks them barriers and it makes you feel good
(04:23):
and yeah, it's just I don't know. I'm still kicking
myself going, how did I end up here with a smile?
Like seven months ago? I never thought that? And you've
got merchandise? I went, oh my goodness, like what how
the It's been the craziest ride. And the longer have
gone on and gone with it, the more people have
(04:45):
bought into it and go, yeah, like you know there
is a message here.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I love that so much and it's like it's powerful
and you like, you've got a newspaper column mate, Hello.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
I know get that.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
So I never I never expected that as well. But
I think often like in media, there's so much negative talk,
Like I think there's so much negativity in media, and
people have spoken to us said they they're actually looking
for some positivity and something that you know, makes them
(05:18):
feel good. And I think that. So my column is
called Smiles with Sally, so I think it sometimes brings
in that positivity about the benefit of a smile, but
it also has that message behind it. So you know,
I bring in personal stories and I bring in educational
component of it about why smiles it's important. Yeah, And
(05:41):
you know, I spoke about my granddaughter one week, who
you know, she's twenty months old, and she was smiling
absolutely everybody.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
She didn't care who you were.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
She didn't care it was at the football, she didn't
care what team you're brak for. She didn't care that
there was like a couple fighting in the car, there
was another guy who was on oxygen, quite sick.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
She was just way their little hand around and it
was beautiful.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
But it was amazing because people just stopped and connected
with her, and like she wasn't speaking, all she was
doing was waiting, but she had this amazing connection and
she was actually communicating with them by just presence and
being seen and just acknowledging them, not caring who they were.
It was just this beautiful moment that you know, I
(06:26):
think sometimes the young people can actually we can learn
from them a lot because they don't have that judgment. Yeah,
and when we get older, judgment tends tends to come in.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
So it's.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
It's interesting to bring in stories like that. And you know,
the more I've done the columns, the more people said, oh,
I've got this story, and I've got this story, and
then all of a sudden people can bring out stories
themselves of a smile that's impacted them. Yeah, it's it's crazy,
really crazy.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
It's like it's it's got such an impact because it
puts the top of mind, it puts it in your awareness.
You know, when we met at the airport before, accidentally,
before we jump bumped into each other, and remember the
lady at the baggage carousel grabbed me and was like, oh,
you got to come over here, and she did my
little thing for me and I was like, oh thanks.
(07:20):
And then she was commenting on I help you because
you're really nice, and I was like, oh thanks, Like
I hadn't gone out of my way to be nice.
I was like, oh, she goes especially for Jetstar. I'm like, well,
if you don't like jet Stary, you probably shouldn't fly
jet Star and she high fires me and we have
a laugh. And then the Uber driver was the same,
like I was excited because I was going and I'm like,
(07:41):
it's funny, we're going on a holiday. Everyone at the
airport's assumingly going on a holiday. They're going a good place.
She'll be excited and everyone's miserable. Well, yesterday I went
to the doctor surgery. I had to go get a
blood test, and I'd given them there. I given myself
an hour window for my next appointment. This will take
five minutes, but let's be honest, they'll take an hour.
(08:03):
And so I waited my full hour and I got
in and I got my test. I'm like, oh, I
just need this, and the doctor, the lady I hadn't
seen her before, she goes, thank you for being so nice,
and I was like, oh, yeah, well it's public holiday
and you're working, so because they were flat out yeah.
And what occurred to me is, in all these instances,
(08:26):
I actually hadn't gone out of my way to be nice.
I just wasn't a dick. I just wasn't an asshole.
It was because like, why can't change the fact that
she's now late, and so deal with it. I just
didn't react to it. And it's interesting how we tend
to go out of our way to be shipped to people.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
I think I think it is.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
And you know, we can be shit to people, and
and I think we're not so aware of it, but
perhaps we are. I think we pick up on other
people's emotion, So if someone's been a bit shitty and
a bit off, we pick up on that. So, you know,
we pick up on the environment around it. So you know,
if you're nice and you're the impact that you would
(09:11):
have had Chip is probably you were nice to that doctor.
She might have had shitty people all day up until
then the next patient that comes in, she's probably gonna go, ah,
there's nice people out there, and she's going to be
more pleasant. I mean, not that she would be pleasant,
but the impact of you on her, but being nice
will mean that that next patient is probably going to
get really good treatment as well. And then yeah, it
(09:34):
just has this whole ripple effect. Yeah, and I think
we just don't understand the impact that we have on
others so often, and like you said, just being nice
you make someone's day, and you know, like you said
the Jetstar people, you know you'll be nice. You know,
isn't it automatically that you're just nice to people? Like
why do we want to be why do we want
(09:56):
to be nasty to people?
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Yeah? Yeah, I guess The point. The point I want
to make, which I probably didn't make when I said
it was reading seeing your content all of the time,
is like I see this big photo of a beautiful
smile of some sort and then a story or a
quote or a message, and you are pumping that into
(10:18):
my world and it actually increasingly so it makes me smile.
It shipt. I feel an energetic shift. I'm like God,
And then I feel really happy for you because I've
seen your growth. I've seen you manned around find this
path and then make something of it. And I think
that that's really special. And to feel like that's had
(10:40):
an effect on me just as an observer in the group,
it's beautiful. So keep it up, mate.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Yeah, well that's amazing, and thank you for that, because
I think often you don't know, you don't know the
impacts you're having. So the fact that you're thinking about
smiling and you're actually phats smiling at people and doing
that is huge, Like that's massive because you know, like
I said, that riper effective.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
You doing that will go out wider.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
So you know, you know I do this article, you
start smiling, the people you come in contact with, they
start smiling, and then they start smiling, and then all
of a sudden, you know, we've got this real lift
in the world of people who are just genuinely nice
people and connecting and happy, and you know it. Then
you're looking for the positives in the world. You're not
looking for the negatives. So you know, I want to
(11:32):
live in a world where I'm focusing on the positives
and where I'm excited about life. I'm excited about connecting people,
not a world where you know, faced with people who
are who are unhappy. But we all have a we
all have a place to do that and we can.
I mean I think often we think we're not powerful
to do it. Like you know, the impact you had
yesterday tip would be so powerful as well.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
The small things. What do you what did you think
going into that? What do you reckon the most likely
of your personal stories you thought you were going to use?
And can we hear that?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Oh see, I have so many personal stories, I think
I think probably a personal story probably where this probably
came about more was me working as an alcohol and
other drug worker. So you know, most recently I've worked
in the hospital as an alcohol and other drug worker,
(12:32):
working with clients who have been stigmatized. They're reluctant to
get support, and I'm often working in that space. Alcohol
and other drug workers are often the last line of support.
Like we often comment about it that they'll be rejected
all the way along and so by the time they
get to seeing us, they are so flat and so low.
(12:55):
But and often you have your head down feel stigmatized.
You meet them with a smile and a hello, and
immediately they feel worthy, they feel seen and that they matter.
And I was so privileged to hear amazing stories and
meet the beautiful people by just having that connection straight away.
And it all started with a smile, because that's first reaction.
(13:19):
So you know, I met a patient out on the
foot path and I smiled, and immediately she went, you're
a safe person, and she clung to me and I
sat with her the whole day. But if I had
a greeted her with oh, what are you doing here,
and that grumpy frown. The response from there could have
been very different and she might have run away from support.
(13:40):
Got oh, you know you're you know, you just stigmatizing
me like someone else. But you know, and I guess
by talking to a lot of people, I realized we
are so much more similar than different. And this world
is very dividing it. You know, it's very easy to
put you in classes. This is where you belong.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
Here.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
We are here and not really acknowledging that. You know,
we all have our own pain. We're all trying to
escape from something, whether we want to acknowledge it or not.
We just have different ways of reacting to it.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
So and I guess, go back to me.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
I had an exercise addiction while I'm working as an
alcohol and other job worker. So I'm being congratulated and celebrated,
like I'm going to the World Championships over in South
Africa and America, so I'm amazing, But deep down I
was running from pain, and you know, exercise was my
main way to cope with it. But when you're hiding
(14:38):
under exercise, no one questions that they think it's healthy,
and so it's almost like, you know, reinforcing that this
behavior is okay and it's acceptable and keep going where
deep down it's like, I'm this little person in here
crying out for support, but I just don't know how
to stop. Where other people I'm dealing with alcohol drugs,
(15:01):
you know, you've got to give up. You're stigmatized. But
similar thing running from pain, just different ways of coping
with So it was such an ironer.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, what took you into working in drug and alcohol
and was it were you conscious of that was what
was taking place in that moment or is this a
reflection that developed.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
It was a reflection that developed. So my passion was
about prevention health promotion. So I wanted to get into
health promotion more the you know, you've got to exercise,
eat healthy. I was trying to work my way into
that field and a job came up that was health
(15:44):
promotion in regards to drug and alcohol. I got into
that position was two days a week. My manager at
the time there was a job coming up as an
alcohol and other drug counselor and she said, oh, you've
got a psychology background because I stay psychology UNI. She goes,
you could do that, and so I did. I got
(16:06):
into it, and then I went, oh, oh, it became.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
And then the awareness came then.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
So I didn't when I was so caught up in
that exercise addiction, I didn't know what was going on.
It was just what I did. I had this drive,
I've got to exercise, I've got to keep going and
you know, going to withdraw. All the days I didn't
do it, but I was not fully aware. I think
it was so subconscious. It was just this is just
what I did.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Was it a moment or a revealing of moments that
started to get you curious? Was it a smack in
the face or a bit of a oh, what's under here?
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I think it was actually a revealing after I after
perhaps COVID hit and I had to slow down. I
had to stop, and you know, I'm going, yeah, I'm
going through withdrawal things at home.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
I can only you know, run five kilometers from my home.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
And I think it was actually when I got out
of that space, I think I understood it a whole
lot more. Perhaps my journey over the last seven months
as well, I guess in writing my keynote and you know,
getting the stories has been a bit more of a
It was probably a smack in the face more then
I guess when I saw the difference. But yeah, I
(17:27):
guess seeing the relationships of you know, there's a shed
full of beer just to be prepared, like, you know,
I'd packed my lunch every morning just to be prepared
in case I ran out of time. And there was
all these little moments that made sense afterwards. So it
wasn't like oh boom, like this is what happening. It
was like, oh, oh, oh, now I understand, and yeah,
(17:53):
it just gave me a greater understanding of other people,
I think as well, and it gave me that real
passion to break down those barriers and go, hey, you know,
we are more similar to different. You know, we've got
these escapes and things.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah, do you feel like you do you feel like
you saw more of yourself in the people that you
were working with and learned from there, or you learned
more about them by seeing that in yourself, Like which
does that make sense? Which which direction worked stronger for you?
Speaker 3 (18:25):
I think I think it probably worked stronger for me
in that I saw myself in the patients and clients
I was working with. And it was actually quite interesting
because you know, when you work in alcohol and drugs
sometimes clients will say, what's your problem because they assume
that if you're an alcohol and other drug workout, you
(18:46):
must have had a problem. Yeah, or they assume that,
or they assume you never know, and so yeah, it
but slight and they often I would talk and they go,
you seem to have a stand me like many others haven't.
And I think that's when it kind of started to
hit me a little bit too. Well, I do understand you, like,
you know, why wouldn't I? But not probably putting two
(19:09):
and two together that my exercise was the same as them,
So I think it is. I think it is more
I did see myself in them. That's a very good question. Tip,
that's a very good question. Yeah, I haven't forget.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
I imagine it's really hard to build rapport with people
who who can't relate to what it's like. Well, if
you don't understand what I'm in the middle of, Like,
how hard is it for us to understand drug and
alcohol addiction when we don't have a relationship with it? Yes,
(19:48):
Like how did you build rapport and trust with those people?
It's incredible?
Speaker 3 (19:52):
And I guess you know, when people would ask my history,
I would never say what my history was, so my
go to respond would be, I will never truly understand
what you've been through, but I will try to understand
you as best I can, and in a way of
and in saying that, it acknowledges though that you know,
everybody's situation is different. So I can never truly understand
(20:15):
someone because you can say, oh, I understand, and you
know you don't understand.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
You're not me.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
So by that response, it break down. The barrier said, hey,
look she wants to understand, but she understands that she's
not me. And instantly it's like, yeah, she's a safe person.
She actually understands. Yeah, to do that, So I mean, yeah,
there was and you know, there were responses for people saying,
(20:42):
you know, if you've ever drank, how can you understand me?
So or if you have, like if you have been
using drugs and alcohol, how can you be here giving
me advice because you're a bit of a hypocrite. So
there was never a like, there was never a safe
It was always a neat. It was a lose lose
situation no matter what my response was to question, which
sounds interesting, but that's it. We can never truly understand
(21:05):
other people. We could just start to it as best.
But but I think I think having that exercise addiction
did give me that insight and understanding of withdrawal and yeah,
what people do to run and to cope with things.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, I find it fascinating to you know, like I've
always been fascinated by this, this personal development space, this
self awareness space, and this idea. I remember when I
the very first conversation I had with doctor Bruce Perry,
who I love, love love. You've heard me rave about
him because he was on the show again recently. But
I remember explaining to him my background in childhood trauma
(21:47):
and explaining to him that I found the boxing at
twenty nine. Over a short period of time doing that
that physical somatic kind of training, memories came up. It
brought it top of mind. I started journaling, was the
first thing. I just started writing things down. And I
said to him, I remembered writing in mid sentence about
(22:08):
my perpetrator, and writing in the middle of the sentence,
I suddenly, out of nowhere, wrote, maybe I should thank
this person because I wouldn't be resilient, independent, strong, I
wouldn't have all these traits that I now have. And
I wouldn't. I would not trade that for the world.
So and as I'm writing it, I'm like, shit, where
(22:29):
did that come from? And I said to Bruce, Yeah,
I'm like why as people like yourself and myself who
have taken a learning and gotten interested and looked for
answers and then want to offer solutions or offer insights
to others. My question has always been, you can't change
(22:52):
someone that's not ready. And I can see did this
Am I here despite me? Because of me? Did I
is it? Can I take credit for the work it
till guess I can see? And I'm aware of all
the deliberate things that I've done for many, many, many
years to shape my own mindset, to shape the way
(23:14):
I see the world, to shape the way I behave
and respond. But then these moments happen. So there's all
of that, but then the moments that matter, they just unfold.
So what I said to him, why did I write
that sentence like that? Wasn't that came through me? Not
from me? And yes, maybe because of all the background work.
So it's like, how do we how do we operationalize
(23:40):
that for others because they're not ready till they're ready.
How do we be the change? How do we create
the catalyst?
Speaker 4 (23:50):
Will you know?
Speaker 3 (23:51):
It is interesting because like you said, and I was
gonna say, that's quite powerful, too, Chiff, to come up
with that thanking your perpetrator like that, you know, it's
so huge, but to actually have that acknowledgement, and I
think it's it's when you look at those your experiences
and use them as strengths to make you go on.
It's a whole different perspective and way of looking at
(24:11):
But like you said, you cannot get people to change
if they're not ready, and that can be frustrating for people.
It can be frustrating for us if we can see like, oh,
you know you could change, and yeah, there's so much,
so much potential. But I think it is it is perspective.
But you know, like I've done a lot of work
on myself to Tiff, and it is hard, Like you know,
(24:35):
I think sometimes you're hard to it's hard to actually
tap into what's underneath there. And will I be the
same person? Like you know, if I tap into this,
will I be the same person? And will I like
who I am? Because I think sometimes we can hold
on to our trauma and what's happened to us as
our identity? And then you know, if we're trying to
(24:56):
heal and get over that, what happens if I don't
like the person underneath? Because I've spent years, I've spent
years excepting that this is who I am, and what
if other people don't like me? So I mean, for me,
that took a lot to actually try to go there
because this fear and you know, you know, and people
using substances, some of them have this identity that I
(25:18):
use drugs, I drink.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
That's just who I am.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
And you know, when I'm talking to them, I say,
if i'd say I'm an alcoholic, I say, no, you
are no an alcoholic. You might have a problem with alcohol,
but you are not an alcoholic and that is not
your identity. So I think it's a matter of being
aware that you know, you shouldn't have to fit a mold,
and there's a lot of freedom in that, I think,
(25:42):
in not being stuck in this little box and this
is this is who I am. I'm not sure if
I've answered your question there, but if.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
I don't even remember what my questions are, so it's cool.
What I want to know what came, what came up,
what was beneath So when you start this unfold, you're like, Okay,
I can see that there's an unhealthy patterning with my
relationship with exercise. Yeah, did you know what was underneath
it you did that unfold? Or was there digging to do?
(26:14):
Because I find that interesting too, like what, Yeah, we
can know we're running and not know what we're running from.
We can watch self sabotage play out, and there's areas
where I still do and can and I can be like,
I'm only making my best guess to go. It might
be that, but it's so deep within my psyching that
I'm not actually sure, like I'm throwing spaghetti at a
(26:36):
wall here.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Look, I think mine. I have got so many layers
to what I've been running from, And to be quite honest,
I've often said I feel like I've always been in
fin or fight so so, and there's a lot of
self worth there, I think too. So I had an
older brother with disability, so he was five years older
(26:59):
than me, and just before my younger sister was born,
he went to live in the nursing home, which sounds
quite in it and which was fine, Like my parents
did an amazing job, but it was just too hard
to look after sport home. So I'm going from having
a brother who requires twenty four or seven care and
me probably a little bit more capable, and he goes
(27:20):
into hospital and then all of a sudden, I've got
a little sister come along. So it's like my brother
had been replaced by my little sister. And I had
a very intense fear that if I got sick, I
would be replaced as well. So from from a two
year old, wow, so I've got for a And it
(27:42):
only came to me at the age fifty that you know, well,
yeah so, and you know it only made sense recently,
and I've got goosebumps now hearing it. But you know,
I was very protective of my sister as well, and
such an intense fear that, you know, I thought, if
you got sick, you agreed to hospital, and you never
(28:04):
and you never came home. So you know, exercise for
me is a way of I'm keeping myself healthy and
things like that. But I spent my whole child to
pretending not to be sick. Like my dad would say,
have a cough, and I'm like, no, I'm okay, I'm okay,
So if anyone asked me if I was sick, I
would say no. So I had this real fear of
(28:26):
abandonment and I was like running. So it's almost like
this protection protection thing. And yeah, so he went to
hospital and he passed away when I was I was
nine and he was thirteen. Yeah, so yes, I guess
that's an abandonment thing. And that just tried to prove
(28:48):
my worth. So, you know, I've got to be the
perfect child. I've got to you know, I've got to
do well at school. I've got to be good at athletics.
I've got to be a nice girl. I've got to
be a kind girl because I'm getting be rejected. But
I'm thinking for a two year old space, not a rational,
you know, adult space. And like it was nothing that parents,
my parents did, or anyone did. It was just my
(29:08):
subconscious two year old who could not understand what was
going on. All I knew was if you went to
see if you were sick, you went to hospital and
you didn't come home. So it's cute, and you know,
and from there, you know, my brother passed away. So
there's the trauma around that. I moved towns a year later,
had to make a whole new lot of friends. Yeah,
(29:32):
and there's almost like, you know, my brother died a
year before, but when I moved towns, no one knew.
No one knew about my brother, So it was like
this secret past kind of thing, not that it was
a purposeful, but I was also scared of rejection too,
like if someone understands, if someone thinks I've got a
brother with disabilities, I might be rejected. So you know
(29:54):
that that that's there's that fear, like I've had fear
my whole my whole life. So exercise was feel good
hormones and stuff like that. But I got into swimming
when I was I was a competitive swimmer when I
was nine, which was the year my brother passed away,
So it almost became exercise became my coping mechanism straight away,
(30:15):
and it never it never left me. And I got
into swimming because I was sick, because I had asthma,
So it just became that whole whole flow and.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
Effect of what I did.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
So yeah, it's quite complicated, and you know, and then
when I was nineteen, I was diagnosed with chronic lung
disease and told i'd if the sema by the time
I was forty. So you know, I'm nineteen at UNI,
thinking I've got this whole life ahead of me, and
all of a sudden I've got to think about, you know,
I could possibly die when I'm forty, or I won't
(30:48):
be able to breathe.
Speaker 4 (30:49):
Or I'll be on oxygen.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
And yeah, it was just it just felt like it's
just a top of each other, that this just snowball,
so you know, keep fit and will be fine and
escape the fact that you're going to die when you're
aughty or and like I haven't, like I've been fine,
but it's just, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
By the way, still here to Sally Pimer, this is
real life right now.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
I'm still here. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
But it's a lot to have hanging over your head,
I guess, feeling like, you know, feeling like you could die,
but also that fear of rejection. And yeah, I think
a lot of goes back to that two year old
little girl who was so scared.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
I just couldn't verbalize how she felt.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
What I really love about about you sharing all this
is that acknowledgement that sometimes we get so wrapped up
in big, big stories of trauma that the little one.
It's how the seeds of what unfold like. For me,
that journaling really quickly showed me that the childhood trauma
(32:03):
that I had realized had taken place and greatly shaped me.
And then I learned about attachment theory and was like, oh,
I see there's a lot of behaviors that are playing
out here and they come from that. And then I realized, actually,
that stuff gets wired far earlier that actually the trauma
was a symptom of what had already happened. I already
(32:26):
had fractures in my relationship with the world before that,
and then the experience that then came into my life
was a result of that. So that was I found
that really interesting, and I think that's the case. It's
like we look at the it's like, oh, well, if
I haven't you know, if no one's like abused me
(32:51):
or hurt me or tried to murder me, I haven't
had trauma. It's like, actually, sometimes trauma is a two
year old belief because of one teeny tiny, little seemingly
from the outside looking in signal, like my parents bought
a shop at four years when I was four three
or four, just a couple of years ago. Mum said
(33:13):
to me, I we moved into that shop when I
was full, and I used to love getting you out
of bed and taking you to my bed for a cuddle.
And then we bought that shop and it was seven
days a week and I didn't get to do that anymore.
And that was just in that moment I went that
there it is. That was the abandonment right there. And
(33:33):
then I'm in this dark and my brother was seven
years old. So here I am growing up in this
shop where my parents are busy and they're unavailable, and
I've got everything I needed. This awesome. I grew up
in the most awesome place right living in a shop,
eating lollies, fucking carrying on. It was brilliant. But to
the part of me that was like, well, Mum used
(33:54):
to come in and then then we get busy, and
then we And I've seen a lot of things play
out in life that replicate the shit that becomes problematic
because of this one thing that happened right that wasn't
the trauma in adverted commas.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
I think it's so interesting, and that's it. I think
from the outside looking in, people would probably look at
your chiff and say you had the shop like you
could eat the lawlies, like you know, how could they
be trauma in that? But it often it is those
little things that can make a huge impact. And I
think that's where you can't disregard the experiences that people
(34:33):
have had and those little moments, because I think, like
you said, sometimes it's that big trauma and people think
that's what it has to be and what have you
got to be talking about? But yet and I think
it's you know, it depends on what age these things
happen to, Like you're very influential at certain certain ages,
and you know, I look at you know it's the
(34:54):
first thousand days have got a huge impact on your life.
And you know the first thousand days my life were
quite I had quite a lot going on with me.
Speaker 4 (35:06):
As well.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
But you know, like your age too, Like simple thing
of having that cuddle, there's probably a little chiss in
the shop thinking what about me, Like you know, they're
spending all this time in the shop, but here I am, like,
you know, I won't be these tuddles and I want
to be seen. And you know your parents would have
been doing the best they could in the circumstances.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
For sure, Like I have very few memories. When I
think of that time was in that shop seven years.
My memories, I can picture a very very dark house
out the back, or I can picture that house attempt
becaus they're always in the shop. But I have this
one memory. This is so funny, so funny. With this memory,
I'm in watching play School and I can remember this
(35:50):
scene on play School with it. So they have this
cardboard box and they're teaching us how to make an aeroplane. So,
because we'll having a shop, I go out the back.
I get a big cardboard box. I make this aeroplane,
and so I've tied string over so I've got it
around me. I've popped tied string around it. I've made
this airplane. And on play School they've got the background
of the sky with clouds and everything, and they're like
(36:12):
singing a song and they're flying this. So I run out.
I'm like, so I run out the glass door of
the shop to the shop, like out of the out
of the house into the shop, and I run down
to show I'm like, mom, I want to show her
this airplane. I'm so fucking excited. And as I run down,
I swipe all of the Worcester, shear sauce glass bottles
(36:32):
off the shelf and smash them with the wing of
my plane. And so the response is fucking hell differan
a loses a shit. So I just I can still
remember the feeling of just I was just so excited
by my plane. I wanted to show it to my parents.
And then I got in trouble, and I like those things.
Speaker 5 (36:56):
They and it's those little things that sticks, and they
come back at you at the least times, you know,
And that reminds me, and it kind of reminds me, like,
and you'd be so proud of that, Like that's amazing
and creative and you did that, and I'd be proud too,
and like and.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
I'll have to hear this. Keep telling me, mate, keep telling.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
Me you're so proud. I'd be proud about, like creative
and doing it.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
And but to have that, but to have that experience
that was so positive, to be smashed down like that
by you know, knocking over the source, it just it
just changes the whole, Like the story just changed. But
if you had not been got in trouble, you probably
won't remember it, Like it's probably just a little it's
(37:46):
probably gone and I remember I made the school cross
country team when I was ten, and I was so
excited and I was telling my parents, I've made the
school cross country team. But it was also the day
that my parents found out my dad had got a
promotion and we're moving towns, and they're more focused on
the fact that we're moving towns that have made the
(38:07):
school cross country team, which is this little tiny moment,
but it sticks in my head as well that, you know,
all of a sudden, it's like, well, you know, the
focus is on that, but you know what about me, Like,
I'm in grade four and I've made the school team.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
So especially given the story you had developed around health, fitness,
and achievement, right, so that like that had quite a
huge metaphorical hook to it, and then it was disregarded.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
Yeah, that's right. And it wasn't that they were happy
for it, it's just, you know, they were more focused
on that at the time, which I can understand as
an adult because having my own children, I go oh, oh, like,
there will be so many circumstances that my kids could
say the same things and I won't be proud of
(38:59):
because I got oh, I should have been listening. But
I know I've done that too, and I think everybody does,
like just not know.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
But this is the yeah, and this is the beauty,
well the beauty and the not so beauty of life
is it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter what you do. Like,
we aren't responsible. I mean I alluded to in the keynote.
It's our relationship with our experience the shapes is and
we can't. We can't do that for someone else. I can.
I can offer an experience, but I can't shape the
(39:33):
story that someone actually wraps around what they experience. I can't.
I can't change their internal narrative about my intention. My
intention isn't their experience. Yeah, And so all parents they're like,
they're all doing the best they can and doesn't matter
how good that is. They might do a stellar job,
(39:56):
but something can get a story rap around it because
something holds meaning to someone, because you can't be around
your kids. Twenty four to seven. I just wanted to
get a whipp it and a cat mate. So I
can't screw it up. We get a whippet and a cat.
I don't have the tools for this. And even that
is very bloody hard.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
That's funny, that's funny. Yeah, your cat's hairs like, it
has very interesting things that it does when you're.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
Away, so there is a lot of interest.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Yes, it's a cracker though it's funny.
Speaker 4 (40:27):
Did you.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Like for your self discovery self awareness journey? Did you
did that just come to you or did you start
to seek help or psychology or what was your process
of unpacking?
Speaker 3 (40:45):
It's actually very interesting because when I was working at
the hospital, I was in a room with another lady
in the office and she's doing a meditation course with
a friend of hers, and she's like, You've got to
do this meditation course and I'm like.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
I am not doing that. I do not have time,
Like that's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
Who would want to exact bed weakly?
Speaker 4 (41:11):
And in the end I signed up.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
And I did it just to shudder up and I
actually like, you're just going to keep aout it.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
I'll give it a go.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
And you know, the first two weeks I hated it
because I couldn't sit still and I was a bit
in protest. You told me I should do this, so
I'm not doing it. But after that I just ease
into it. And then and then as a result of that,
I'm listening to a meditation. I'm journaling and so all
of a sudden, I'm writing this stuff. And I'm quite
a visual person when I meditate, so all of a sudden,
(41:46):
some of these things that had not made sense and
been subconscious, all of a sudden came up. And then
I also did kinesiology, like I saw a kinesiologist, which
was amazing and and she helped me with that. But
I think even the fact that I actually stopped, like
the meditation, was just that way to stop and let
the world catch up, because that's what I needed because
(42:08):
while you keep running, you don't have time to deal
with all that stuff and the world won't catch up.
And I think a lot of people have that fear
if I stop, the world will catch up. So I've
got to keep going. So I think that's the big step.
You just need to stop and go Hey. Well, for me,
I had to stop and go hah, I'm just going
to deal with this stuff and let it and let
(42:29):
it come in.
Speaker 4 (42:30):
So it was.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
Not easy, but you know, I've seen I've seen psychologists
things and handy, but I think it's really that stopping
and diving in deep that actually has been very beneficial
for me.
Speaker 4 (42:45):
And to deal with it.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
We'll not deal with myself but actually let myself deal
with it, which is not as hard as what it sounds.
And I think that's what people think it will be hard.
It actually can be this huge release and feeling of
freedom when you actually can unpack some of those layers
and actually understand where you're coming from, because I think
sometimes it's this confused mess where when you can unpack,
(43:09):
you could take awareness can be everything. I understand where
I'm coming from. Now, Oh it's okay to feel like this,
like it's some probably sounds a bit strange, but that's
how it's coming about with me understanding of who I
am and acceptance of who I am.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Yeah, I know when I my first kind of self
awareness journey, for lack of a better word, my first
thing was like, what's the good? What's the point of
self awareness? Life was blissful before I realized it wasn't
like before I realized what was underneath my behavior. I
(43:49):
my story about my behavior was ripper. I was a ripper.
I was a superstar, like I was started a show.
And so there's this kind of for me, there was
this middle moment of like okay, because you know, we
like answers. We like to solve the problem. We like
to fix the thing. We like to Like I think,
without having the words for it or really acknowledging it,
(44:12):
I landed in a place where I went, oh, I'm broken.
Oh I'm broken because this happened. I just got to
find someone, Like my first few psychologists, I was got
to find someone that knows that I'm broken from this
and then they'll fix me. So I'm the same as
everybody else, Like that's a thing, Like there's this factory
setting that we all have, and so like I'm sitting
(44:33):
awkwardly in this in this room with this guy that's like,
what do you need? I'm like, well, that happened, and
now this like I don't know what's wrong, but that happened.
And I don't think I'm normal, Like I don't think
I'm the same as everybody, Like everybody's the same, Like
what a weird concept. The poor bastard, The poor bastard.
He was literally I've told this too many times, but
(44:55):
he literally session number four, he was like, Hey, it's
so tiff. Normally, by three to four sessions in I
have a deep sense of who someone is and what
they need from me, and I'm like, yep, yep, and
he's like, I just don't get that from you. And
I was like, because I was poker face, so I
was like, and I'm thinking, you're the expert of humans,
(45:15):
like you're the human that fixes humans, and I'm a
human that needs fixing. And if you don't have the
answer to fix me, fuck, I don't know. I don't
actually know what's wrong with me. I just know something
is broken.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
And that's a horrible space to be in, though, Like
you know, imagine that you're going for help and you know,
getting told getting told that.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Yeah, But I mean at that point I was still
quite disconnected from emotions. I still so I would have
these sessions and for years I would leave those sessions
and three or four days later, my emotional processing would
then catch up. It was like, oh, you're in a
dangerous metaphorical dangerous position, right guard up, don't feel, can't
(45:57):
feel poke face dissociation, have the conversations, yeah, cool, look
for the you know, I look for the quick fixed,
look for the problem solved, and then get out. And
then I would find that a few days later i'd
have this. I'd call it emotional angst. I'd just have
this kind of emotional breakdown over and nothing. I'm like,
I don't know why. But then I eventually went, oh,
(46:18):
this seems to happen two to three days after a
therapy session. That's that seems to be a pattern.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
You know.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
It was like just this process of bringing it closer together.
And then I was like, you know that, poor bastard.
So it wasn't I laugh about it now. I just
left kind of a bit confused with questions going, oh, fuck,
this bloke can't fix me wock out? But where do
I go now? Fix this?
Speaker 3 (46:42):
And because it'd be that failure being lost, like you know,
am I going to be like this forever? Like you
know and like different to everybody else and everybody else
can be fixed?
Speaker 4 (46:52):
And what about and what about me? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (46:57):
And you know that whole perception of normal, like you
want to be no normal because I think so often
look at everybody else and think, well, they're normal. I
want to be like them. But I think the more
you get to know yourself and other people's stories, you
understand that I've got the same sheet going on. They
are just very good at heightening it often as well
or you keep boxing, and you've got this amazing life,
(47:18):
and people think you're amazing. They probably think you're normal
even though you've got all this stuff going on underneath it.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
You don't want to be like me, guys, you do
not want to be like me normally my watermark of normal,
and that's no such thing as normal. And you know,
if there was help boring with the world or the
world be But I think when you strive to be
like that, you're always striving to be normal or to
get that one step or when I get here, I'll
(47:47):
be happier. It'll be normal when I get here. But yeah,
but you never really do. So, you know, once you
have that acceptance, I think of where you're at and
who you are and what you can control and deal with.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
I think it's just this really different attitude and perspective
and it allows you to see the positive things not
so much the negative and the ship that you're sitting in.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Yeah, and I think that's why I have such a
value for people just being you know, quite open and
vulnerable to you know, a in a safe way, you know.
But that's in the middle of that course we just
went through. My biggest fear was like I don't want
to perform something. I don't want the I don't want
to be performative. I don't want to say I've got that,
Like I am really comfortable and always want to be
(48:29):
comfortable to sit in the middle of the metaphorical mess
and say this like sure, sure I'm a coach. Sure
I'm a coach, Sure I run program, Sure I do
all this stuff. Sure I've got lots of resources for you.
But in the middle of that, I am a messy
human that probably still has a large level of the
(48:50):
lack of self awareness. In many areas of my life.
I've still got lots of hurdles that will challenge me
and to get over and ones that I probably not
even aware of just yet, Like I'm still in the middle,
Like I'm only forty two. Like I thought of this
earlier this year. I thought we think we I think
(49:11):
that we perceive, especially if we overcome something or identify
like yourself, you go oh this, Oh I went through this,
and I've figured this out, and then we think, so
I've it's like this level up, Like I'm up to
this level and this is my that was my story
and now I'm just getting better and better. It's like tea.
(49:33):
If you're forty two, like this probably got your life,
might have some serious shit that's going to unfold, that's
going to challenge you and break like this might even
be the tip of the iceberg. Yet you might have
some stuff in store. But we don't think of your
life that way.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
No, And you never know, So you know it's interesting.
You know, I spent my whole life trying not to
be sick, trying to protect myself. I don't want to
be an oxygen. I don't want to die. And then
you know, three years ago, I'm out walking across from
my house and I got stung by a bee. And
you know, I've been stung by bee as before, but
all of a sudden, I have this anaphylactic reaction, and shit,
(50:14):
so I have this anaphylactic reaction. I'm twenty k's away
from the hospital. I don't know what's happening, and you know,
I drive halfway in my heart's beating. I feel like
I'm being a vomit. I betting you feel like I'm
going to die. And as soon as I walk in
the doors, I've got people straight at me. And it's
just my perspective change then, because I thought I could
(50:34):
spend fifty years trying to prevent myself from being, you know,
sick when I can get stung by something as simple
as a bee and I can die be gone like that.
So you don't know what's ahead, but you know this,
this this whole perspective that you think you've got it all,
thought it out, but life can just throw you things
from any direction to challenge you and go, Yep, you've
(50:55):
dealt with that, Let's give your something else to deal
with them and add to your at your listen still
like hopefully it doesn't happen.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
But a good friend on the show, a neighbor of
mine and ages and ages go, and she had had
brain surgery and we talked about how she'd had this
ten year misdiagnosis period of time, and we were sitting
on the couch just chatting about it afterwards, and I
was like, what's funny, especially with the conversations I get
(51:23):
blessed to have all the time on here, where we're
talking about someone who's overcome something, and there's this level
of oh, like you, empathy for you, and sympathy. We
don't want sympathy, but you know like that, you know
that's the kind of energy is Oh, we've focused on
this and it's like I go on that day, I'm
like I could be sitting here with stage four cancer
(51:45):
and just not know, like this is the beauty of life.
Just before going to Queensland, I spoke to Tammy van Wisser.
She'd been on the show the middle of this year
and love hurt a bits, love love love. She was
we were introduced by metual friend and yeah, she's fucking
awesome human. So when I spoke to her before she
(52:06):
was in hospital. She's just been diagnosed with stage four
breast cancer. It is gone to her bones and her
lymph nodes and it's shit. And and I laid in
bed that night. She was absolute superstar, like, go, I'll
post a link everybody, there's a go fundme to fucking
sort her out. But I laid in bed and I went,
(52:28):
that's exactly what happened. I had her on the show,
we talked about her journey through that breast cancer a
couple of years ago. And whilst I'm talking to her,
she is sitting in a body that at that time
had stage four cancer that she didn't know about. Like
it's happening right in front of our eyes and we
don't fucking know.
Speaker 4 (52:49):
No, fan's it.
Speaker 3 (52:50):
You don't you don't know what's going on, and you
don't know what's her head. And you can be and
you know, I'm very much a plan I like to
know what's happened. But some things you just can't plan
and something beyond your control. And I guess there's that
awareness of it. You know, my my brother in law
died in a car accident. Like you wouldn't you wouldn't predict,
(53:11):
you wouldn't prick back at the age of eight, you know,
whole life, whole life ahead of him.
Speaker 4 (53:16):
So it's and like you said, you don't know, you know,
you have a heart attack.
Speaker 3 (53:23):
We've got very deep here, like we know we've gone.
We've got to a negative heretive.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
It's not negative, it's reality, you know what it to
remind us. It's a reminder that life is way too
precious to to worry about the ship we worry about
and to not live because the last thing I want
to do is if and when a like a moment's coming.
It might just be a moment of old age and
(53:50):
things declined, so that whatever but a moment is coming.
I had a cousin that just was in a in
Tazzi that was in a horrific is in intensive care
right now, is in a horrific unexpected car accident where
he was in no way the wrong He was going
heading to work and he got and that it took
two hours to cut him out of the car. He's
in his twenties, Like, it's bullshit, you don't know. And
(54:11):
I just don't want whatever my story is going to be,
I don't want to lay in that moment and have
never had these moments of reflection and conversation that make
me do the things to make to say yes to
the experiences and to remind myself that sure, you've got
goals and you want to work hard and you want
to achieve big, but you might die. And if you do,
(54:37):
and you and there's a place where you sit and
have a moment to reflect on the time that you
had in this physical world, will will you shake your
head and wish that you had one of these conversations
that sat in your mind and made you make different choices.
Speaker 3 (54:56):
Yeah, there's such an interesting thought, isn't it? Like about
the as the conversations that you that you do have
and the way you where you live your life, Like
you know, are you living your life the way you
want to have it?
Speaker 2 (55:07):
Now?
Speaker 3 (55:07):
Will you be proud of how you are and the
impact that you know you're having an impact on heaps?
Speaker 2 (55:14):
You?
Speaker 3 (55:14):
Well, you will, and you are with your keynote, Tiff,
and you know what you're saying with that, and you
know that's something to be proud of. But you know,
if you're doing stuff that you don't really want to
be doing and you're waiting for the right time, that
right time might never come. Like you know, I'm going
to do this later, and I want to do this later.
You never know, never know whether it will.
Speaker 2 (55:38):
I spent I reckon I would say maybe even two
to three of the last years aside from this one,
I pulled my head out on my backside. But I
have in the too busy spinning the wheels, creating my
own cage and complaining about it, Like I spent a
long time here before I was like, hey, Tiff, everything
(56:00):
that you don't like about the cage that is around
you right now is a cage that you have created
and the own And then all of a sudden this
year went from one of the hardest to one of
the best. And the only thing that had changed was
the choices I made and the decision I made to
(56:20):
get to change how I was doing things. And it's
like that is coming from someone who is in the
middle of these conversations. For years, I was having five
of them a week, at sometimes five of them a week.
So we can be I say it in the keynote,
we be the student and the teacher. We are always
you don't know what you're in the middle of. And
you can get so busy doing great things in the world,
(56:43):
but you're so busy in your own life that you
haven't stepped out to realize that your life is not
being lived for you.
Speaker 3 (56:50):
Yes, yes, And I think sometimes you can get caught
doing what you think you should do, or this is
what I've always done, and I'll do this, I'll and
I'll change later. I was in a job last year
where I knew it wasn't right to me, but I
was waiting for something better to come up, and I
was getting deeper and deeper and deeper. I'm getting satder
and sader and sadder, and were burnt out and I
(57:12):
knew it wasn't to me, but I just it was
what I knew, and stepping out of it was hard
to go for a job to nothing was like oh my,
oh my goodness.
Speaker 4 (57:21):
And but I had choice.
Speaker 3 (57:23):
I didn't have to stay there, but I chose to
stay there. And I've stayed there way too long. And
you can look back in hindsight and say that, but
when you're caught up in it, I think it's sometimes
harder because you're not on the outside looking in. You go, oh,
I just want to do I'm doing it. But it's
later on, like you said, you've had a great year
this year. You can probably look back better now and go, oh,
(57:45):
that's what was happening then, and you're out of your
cage and you're seeing how it can be so much
better when you get out of it. But yeah, there's
so many unknowns too, Like the unknowns are stepping out
of that company zone where you are now, and what
if it's not as good? And what happens if and
what happens if this happens? So this happens when really
you don't know.
Speaker 2 (58:05):
So, yeah, it's easier to it's easier to complain, right,
it's easy to complain about the action you didn't take. Then, yes,
face the consequences of an action you did take. That's scary.
It's like, oh, if I choose to do this and
it doesn't go well, then I'm going to beat myself up.
Whereas if I just keep doing what I'm doing, well,
I'm already doing it, so it's not my fault. It's
(58:25):
just it's just life doing it's thing with me. Yes,
what a cop out.
Speaker 3 (58:30):
It is a cop out, and I think so many
people are caught up in it as well, which is
that negative mindset which then ripples along because then like
if you're in a surrounded by people who are feeling
like that, it brings you down even further. And when
you catch up, it's about talking about the negatives and
how bad life is and how busy you are. Where
(58:50):
if you surround yourself with people whose smile or talk positively,
it boosts your mood and gives you the confidence to
do some of these things. And I guess I'll checked
a little bit, but not so much. You know, the
last seven months, being surrounded by people who are so
supportive and encouraging of what you do just gives you
(59:11):
so much more confidence to follow your dreams and to say, hey,
I've got something, and you know, I've got this team
who were just this gentle like pillows underneath that are
supporting you, who are not gonna let you fall, they
will gently lift you up when you need to. And
so it's just it's amazing the people you're surround yourself with.
(59:33):
Who will you know, encourage you and support you and
and live and almost live your dreams like your own.
Like you know, your keynote last week tip, I'm like, yes,
this is my sister.
Speaker 4 (59:46):
I'm clapping for my sister. He's doing an amazing job.
Speaker 2 (59:50):
Yeah, I feel you on that. It was such a
universal like just watching just to be able to watch
everyone come out of this and genuinely want to cheer
them like I want to help them, I want to
watch them thrive. It's so cool and I've missed that.
I've missed that in having a when you run a business,
when you run your own thing, this heats a perpse.
(01:00:11):
But you don't have a team, you're not a part
of something. There's no collective celebration. So to have that
collective celebration super bloody cool.
Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
Oh, totally totally, super super cool and I think, and
you know, a perspective also is you know, obviously we
only a few people got to do the keynote. But
I think if you actually see yourself as comrades not competitors,
it actually makes a difference in life too. You know,
if you're there cheerletting people rather than having jealousy, it
(01:00:45):
makes a big difference because we're all individual and if
we all accept ourselves for who we are and what
we've got to offer, we're not in competition with anybody
because we've all got our unique strengths to offer off
the world. And I think there's a great deal of
power in that. It's a great way to live life.
Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
I think, Mate, tell people where to find you, follow
you and get more smiles with Sally in their life.
Speaker 3 (01:01:10):
Oh look, everyone loves a smile, So I have I'm
on LinkedIn so Sally Piner. Facebook is empowered with Sally
and I've also got a website empowered with Sally as well.
Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Get on and everyone I'll have Yeah, I'll have links
to that in the show notes. You're amazing. I can't
wait to watch you keep on thriving and go far
and come and hang out in Melbourne again. Soon. Yes,
do that. Thanks for tuning in, big love.
Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
Thank you so much, Chief. This has been amazing, she.
Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood,
got
Speaker 5 (01:01:56):
It, you, Guestcaritu Articles charity
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