STOP Letting Sales Reps Destroy Your Profit Margins with Austin Watterson

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
One of the biggest problems is that most companies
don't know they get started.
Especially when you're big salesdriven.
Just because that guy tells youhe can put a roof on does not
mean he can put a roof onproperly.
If I was to start all over againat zero, don't do it by

(00:20):
yourself.
Find alignment.
And when you're in your 20s and30s, it's harder because you're
more aggressive a lot of times.
You're you're a little bithardcore.
It's harder.
We have to educate people andhave set those expectations.
I'm signing a contract with you.
You're not gonna remembereverything either.
So we have our production teamactually call when we call and

(00:40):
remind you hey, make sure thedriveway's cleared out.
Delivery shingles comes from ata different time from the
installs.
We're gonna be there Thursdayafternoon to deliver shingles
does not mean that we're puttingyour roof, we're installing your
roof.

SPEAKER_01 (00:53):
So you just have to walk people through that.
Welcome to the Roofing SuccessPodcast.
I'm Jim Aline and I'm here tobring you insights from top
leaders in the roofing industryto help you grow and scale your
roofing business.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06):
Austin Waterson, how are you, man?
I'm doing great.
I'm doing great.
How about yourself, Jim?
I'm doing good, man.
Glad to have you on.
We've been, you know, we've wewe've known each other for many
years now, and um, you know, sawyou through, you know, man, ups
and downs with your, you know,with the business, with your
health, with all kinds ofthings.
It's uh it's great to finallyhave you on.

(01:27):
So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:28):
I'm glad to yeah, glad you had to have me on here.
Yeah, I think several years agowe met, actually, we met through
John Bruce.

SPEAKER_02 (01:35):
He was yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:36):
Yeah, you know, Brucey, he he connected us.

SPEAKER_02 (01:41):
The the golden doodle of roofing is what he's
calling himself now.
Uh self-proclaimed, yeah.
Self-proclaimed, that's right.
He's a he's a good guy.
Um, well, Austin, uh, you know,you have Royal Roofing and Solar
Um over in the Kansas City areaand uh and have have merged with
Abernathy roofing.

(02:01):
And, you know, let's start backwith uh with this journey for
you, man.
How did how did you get intoroofing and and how did how did
I how did it get to here foryou?

SPEAKER_00 (02:09):
Yeah, it used to be in the restaurant business
before roofing.
So you gotta try to keep, youknow, I was director of
operations over several uhrestaurants, and when you're
when your average ticket is, youknow, six, seven dollars in the
fast food side, you got a lot ofpeople to satisfy.
So very customer service drivenand and you know I I got it I

(02:34):
became a partner there when Iwas 19 years old.
And so once I it was time for meto move on and I sold ownership
I had and uh searched around forwhat I want to do next and I
figured out that roofing lookedlooked appeasing, but I forgot I
had a fear of heights.

(02:56):
And and so yeah, I found outquickly I had a I didn't know
cra crap about roofing.
I didn't know differences from athree-tap shingle to an
architectural shingle.
And I'd actually went to workfor a company and and uh they
were a storm chaser at the timeand I learned a few things from

(03:17):
them, actually left and wentover to another company and and
became really good friends witha couple of guys and learned
quite a bit.
But I was very customer servicedriven and relationship driven
and and so I ended up startingmy starting my own company.

SPEAKER_05 (03:33):
Nice.
What year was that?

SPEAKER_00 (03:34):
Uh the end of 2014.

SPEAKER_02 (03:38):
All right.
So got out of the restaurantindustry, so that was that was
just after the crash andeverything, and um started in
say on the sales side?

SPEAKER_00 (03:52):
Yep, so yeah, I left the restaurant well into 2010 is
when I left.

SPEAKER_04 (03:56):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (03:57):
And then uh yeah, so yeah, got on, yeah, just doing
sales and and you know, I youknow it as most people try to
get into roofing, a lot ofpeople are getting out in the
fall.
That's when I started.

SPEAKER_02 (04:10):
So by you know Again, you know, you know,
winter in winter in Kansas inKansas City, you know, might be
a great time to sell roofs.
Yeah, it was for me becausenobody else was everybody else
was taking time off.

SPEAKER_00 (04:25):
Yeah, so I was laying down a hundred, two
hundred thousand dollar January,February, March.
So I remember the end of theyear doing well and and so you
know, done that for a few yearsand you know, and ended up
starting my own company.
And uh yeah, here I am now.

SPEAKER_02 (04:43):
So Yeah.
What were some of those earlylessons you said, you know, from
the rest being in the restaurantindustry, serving hundreds of
you know, lots of small ticketcustomers, having that customer
service.
What were some of those earlylessons that you brought into
your roofing sales and then intoyour roofing business?

SPEAKER_00 (05:01):
Well, uh, so night I think the statistic is like 93%
of mom and pop restaurants fail.
And the reason why they fail issystems and processes.
And how do you and when you getinto a restaurant chain,
everything's a process and howyou do everything, it's gotta be

(05:23):
done.
You expect the same bite of ahamburger every single time you
pull up.
You want your drink made thesame exact way or your ice cream
made the same exact way everysingle time.
And so there's a lot of teachingeverybody to to do the same
thing over and over, you know,watch rent repeat.
And and so that's that's what Iyou know really brought over,

(05:49):
especially as you're growingteams and and doing that, and
and you get you get lostsometimes when you're not using
that stuff.
You're just going and going andshooting from the hip.
And and and so you gottaeverything's gotta have a have a
SOP on it.
Everything's gotta, there'sgotta be a process.
Sometimes you feel like, man,we're just we're just selling

(06:10):
roofs.
We're trying to make this, youknow, bring some easier.
So you got to my and that's mychallenge to myself a lot of
times is I gotta stand backlike, wait a minute, we got too
many, too much in this.
Let's step back, let's just gosell a roof.

SPEAKER_02 (06:24):
Yeah.
That's uh that that that thatconsistency in customer
experience is is important.
You know, I I think that it getslost a lot in an industry like
roofing because people don't usea roofing contractor for many,
many years, right?
They only use, they might onlyreplace a roof or two in their

(06:46):
whole, you know, in their wholelife.
So they're not as used to theexperience.
You're used to that same bite ofa hamburger, right?
You expect it.
It's just it's is you're alittle, you're used to if, you
know, from a maybe if you go toa chain fine dining, you know, I
could go to a Ruth Chris here orRuth Chris there, and it I'm
gonna, I want that same bite ofthe of that steak.

(07:08):
It's you know, I'm expecting ita little bit more.
Um, what are some of thosethings?
Like how how have you built thatinto your business?
What are some of the like whenyou first started operationally,
started Royal, you're like, Ineed to have a consistent
process.
What were some of the firstconsistencies that you built in?

SPEAKER_00 (07:30):
So a lot of consistencies was just is or is
your just your internaloperations?
From you know, I I actually haduh brooke who still works for
us, she challenged me one time,she goes, our service sucks.
And like compared to whom?

(07:51):
The rest of the industry?
No, our service is pretty good,but she was right, our service
did suck.
We gotta the timelines and andall that.
So the customer experience fromthe time they I realized quickly
that I can't take all the phonecalls.
I can't, you know, I I help, butI need to get out of the way

(08:11):
sometimes.
And when you're trying to setappointments or the consistency
at the very beginning is themost important because that is
exactly the same.
You know, when you go and knocksomeone's door or you walk into
a real estate agent or insuranceagent, you know, creating a
relationship, you know, thatfirst impressions do mean a lot.

(08:33):
And so when you call a companyand and you want and most of the
time, I worked off referrals.
So it was just like how you andI connected.
It wasn't I just cold calledroofer marketers one day because
I just felt like you were thecompany to call.
It was talking to bros, and sothe introduction is already

(08:55):
there.
It's up to Jim to to mess it up.
That's right.
And so that's where thoserelationships, so those people
don't always have to talk to me.
They can talk to someone in theoffice that that's gonna have
that's somebody in the know.
Somebody has to provideexperience.
If you don't know what you'retalking about or doing, well,

(09:16):
we're in that relationship.

SPEAKER_02 (09:19):
That that's in that's interesting.
Let's dig into that a little bitmore because it is that first
conversation, right?
That the trust gets built or theor or you drop the ball because
it's it's you either know it oryou don't.
Your team either knows it orthey don't.
There's um, you know, if if a ifa customer calls your company, a

(09:42):
homeowner calls your company,and they're like, man, these
people don't really know whatthey're talking about, or the
person that I spoke with doesn'tknow what they're talking about,
that that creates that uh notthe best first impression,
right?
It it does not add to the trustof your company in that

(10:02):
scenario.
How are you how are you solvingfor that?
What are you how are you how areyou maintaining that consistency
in in having someone who'seducated on roofing having that
first impression and and havingthose first conversations?

SPEAKER_00 (10:21):
Well, and and and for us, you you have to have it
they'll be somebody take a phonecall 24 hours a day.
So we have after hours, we haveyou know nights and weekends,
and unfortunately, you're nevergonna be able to train those
people.

SPEAKER_02 (10:36):
True.

SPEAKER_00 (10:36):
But it's more or less, hey, do you have
emergency?
Some can someone call you butyou need somebody call you back
immediately.
And that's our answeringservice.
You have to have that because ifthat way is consistency as
you're trying to grow.
And for me, I could take, youknow, I always took those phone
calls and handled it.
But but also for your salesteam, sometimes they they need

(10:59):
to be spending time with theirfamilies and all that stuff, and
so their call overflow can go goto the same spot.
And and so you have to you haveto have onboarding.
Yeah, you don't just take you ifyou call 10 companies right now,
pick any city in the country,you call 10 roofing companies,
how many are gonna answer?

SPEAKER_02 (11:21):
Maybe three.

SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
Correct.
And they're still gonna there'sand you're gonna at least get
one answering machine.

SPEAKER_05 (11:27):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (11:27):
You will get an answering machine, uh, you'll
get some voicemails, personalcell phone voicemails, yeah, and
how long does it take to callback?
How long does it take if theyever call you back?

SPEAKER_05 (11:40):
If they ever.

SPEAKER_00 (11:42):
Yeah.
And so I want an appointmentset.
So for Jim, if he calls ourcompany, it's more about easing
your mind that you have anappointment set.
Because you have if you have aleave, I need somebody dispatch
immediately.
If I need my roof looked at, nohurry.
I'm I j whether it's jumping onGoogle, I pulled up Abernathy

(12:06):
roofing, I called these guys, Igot appointments scheduled for
Friday at two o'clock.
Great.
They can they have our our we doonboarding, we know what we're
looking at, we know all thosethings.
We we care about there theperson calling in.
And can we always do better?
Absolutely.
That's where we but we recordall the phone calls, we go

(12:27):
through them, we we we try toimprove on that weekly.

SPEAKER_02 (12:30):
But we have you have you developed like specific
questions?
Because when you're using thosecall answering services, there's
a lot of inconsistency in that,right?
And which which there has to be.
They're gonna have employeeturnover, there's gonna be
things like that, right?
Um, have you developed anyquestions that you want
answered, or are you just like,hey, make it the the first
priority is just give the givethe make sure that the call is

(12:54):
answered and that person ishaving is having a conversation.
They don't have that that persondoesn't have to have all of the
answers for that customer.
They know, they just need tosay, hey, how how to properly
set expectations of anappointment, right?
Or a home visit, right?
Like, so are there any questionsthat you're having them ask that

(13:15):
that help with help help tee upyour your sales team or
whoever's going out?
Before we carry on with theepisode, let's give a shout out
to one of our sponsors.
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SPEAKER_01 (13:27):
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SPEAKER_02 (13:45):
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sponsors page on the RoofingSuccess Podcast website.
Are there any questions thatyou're having them ask that that
help with help help tee up yoursales team or whoever's going
out?

SPEAKER_00 (14:04):
Yeah, we have a series of of uh we call a
playbook of questions they haveto ask.
And, you know, whether it's, youknow, whether they have animals,
whether, you know, hard to findon GPS sometimes.
You know, we try to confirm thehouse, like, okay, Jim, you got
the house.
You know, you have a WhiteHouse, uh, you know, things like

(14:25):
that.
So there's different things justto confirm that we got got the
right, got the right address,all that.
So that's there's there's aseries.
I mean, I guess I've nevercalculated the time, but you're
you're usually most of the phonecalls are three to five minutes
long, which seems like, man,that's a long time to call.
And well, yeah, it that thatperson's important to us.

SPEAKER_05 (14:48):
That's right.

SPEAKER_00 (14:49):
What would you rather have that or okay?
You said your name was Jim.
Jim, uh, let's get let's getthis home homeowner.
Uh, we're gonna call you in thenext two hours because that's
what you're trying to, you'retrying to think on your feet.
Like, yeah, uh, who do I givethis lead to?
There's nobody here to take thiscall.
And that's what you get.

(15:09):
Like, said, Hey, Jim, we'regonna get you scheduled.
Is there a time on Friday?
We have openings Thursday andFriday for one of our sales reps
to come out.
What do you have any preferredtimes?
And then so that way we schedulearound your schedule instead of
telling you when we're gonna bethere.

SPEAKER_05 (15:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (15:26):
Or handing a sales rep your phone number to call,
and it does not happenimmediately, it can happen days
later or not at all.
And those leads are those leadsare expensive.

SPEAKER_03 (15:41):
They're expensive.

SPEAKER_00 (15:43):
So, you know, that's why some you love or hate Angie,
Angie's list, but I mean itworks for some people, it don't
work for others.
Uh, but it's a speed delete.

SPEAKER_02 (15:54):
You know what the most expensive lead is, Austin?
The one you don't respond to.

SPEAKER_00 (16:00):
The ones that don't get it.
Yeah.
And they shouldn't get a callback.
They should get answered inbecause your time is valuable.
If you call and you take youlike the service that you got on
the phone, talk to someone, youhave an appointment set for
tomorrow at two o'clock, you'reprobably not calling three other
roofing companies to come outyet.

SPEAKER_05 (16:22):
That's right.

SPEAKER_00 (16:22):
You're gonna allow us to come out, you're gonna let
us take a look, and then if youdon't like what we have to say
or don't like our price, thenyou may call for comparable.
But you're not going to mostpeople don't have three roofing
companies scheduled to come out.

SPEAKER_02 (16:42):
No.
No.
So then you you you made surethat that experience was was in
place, right?
That that was the first part ofthat customer service.
You got to take care of people,right?
I mean, if you're working in therestaurant and no one's no one's
there to seat people or no one'sthere to take an order, uh

(17:04):
that's not gonna go over well.
So, you know, it's kind of thesame, the same thing here.
Hey, someone has to, someone hasto be attentive to this this
potential customer, right?
So um now you're attentive tothem.
Now, what what what was the nextthing that from a customer
service standpoint that you youbrought over from that from that

(17:25):
restaurant experience that waslike, hey, this is this is
another thing that weimplemented that that came from
there, but it works really wellfrom a customer experience
standpoint.

SPEAKER_00 (17:38):
Well, so do you read the labels on different things,
the Surgeon General's warning oncigarettes or any of that stuff
that that warns you this couldbe harmful if swallowed and all
that?
There's a reason why those laborlabels are on there, is because
they got sued for that.
Yes.
And so it's like, hey, if yousmoke these, you could this

(17:59):
could cause cancer.
So here, how many how many can Iput my mouth today?
It doesn't stop anyone fromsmoking, but it stops lawsuits
from happening.
But for us, it's not aboutlawsuits, it's about having
communication.
And so we had one that, youknow, several years ago had one
of the big uh$100 millioncompanies coming to Kansas City

(18:24):
and community next to us and andknocked a lot of doors, sold a
lot of jobs, and they got intowhere you know part of Kansas
City is the Woodrock capital ofthe world, is they use that old
Masonite siding and lots ofdamaged siding.
And so what happens is thesiding's damaged when you tear

(18:46):
the roof off, try and replacestep flashing.
It's been, you know, some of thebest siding.
Well, what happens is it'salways your fault.
Always.
Well, you guys damaged mysiding.
Well, these guys are going backto the roofing crews trying to
charge a roofing crew back fordamaging siding.
It's not the roofing crew,that's it was a homeowner's
problem to begin with.

(19:08):
You but you never had thatconversation with the homeowner.
You have to set expectations.
You have to, you have to thecustomer experiences when you're
in front of them.
And that's where I I love theidea that like the phone sales
and all that, but when you'reout there with someone, you're
walking them through theirproperty.
That's right.
They don't want to hear youtalking bad about their house or

(19:29):
the ones that painted last.
Like, oh man, this is terriblepaint job.
No, it's here's what we have.
Your garage doors are damaged.
When's the last time you walkedaround your house and saw
everything wrong with yourhouse?
So when we do an inspection, wewe're very thorough with our
inspections.
How many people get in addicts?
Every one of our sales guys hasto get an attic.

(19:50):
That's part of part of makingsure ventilation's proper.
And and so that's where that'shuge.
Giving them the process, becauseyou get you get caught up in
sign here, sign here.
Well, three years later, you gotproblems because you never
talked to them about it.
Or and it could be three hoursafter the roof's on when they
get home and they're calling youbecause they're upset because

(20:11):
their siding's damaged, or thiswas wrong, or that's wrong.
You go from an open valley to aclosed valley, or vice versa.
If you didn't just do if youjust automatically do stuff, you
know, you go from a three-tap toarchitectural shingle, or you go
from shingles to metal, andthere's you know, you
everything, a new roof,everybody shows up looking at

(20:35):
their house.
So they see all these problemsthat they think are there.
And if it may not be your fault,but it's your problem.
And so if you address it upfront and walk people through
it, here's the expectations.
Crew shows up at 6 30 in themorning, start why the hell is

(20:55):
these guys showing up at 6 30 inthe morning?
You didn't know you had to moveyour cars out of the driveway?
Come on, duh, we're doing yourroof.
People don't know.
They don't know, people don'tknow, they've never been through
it.
You do it every day.

SPEAKER_05 (21:08):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (21:09):
And and so I love that.
So we have to we have to educatepeople and and have set those
expectations.
And what I talked to you abouttoday, Jim, I'm signing a
contract with you, you're notgonna remember everything
either.
So we have our production teamactually call when we call and
remind you hey, make sure thedriveway's cleared out.
We're gonna do delivery ofshingles comes from a different

(21:33):
time from the install.
So we're gonna be there Thursdayafternoon to deliver shingles
does not mean that we're puttingyour we're installing a roof.
So you just have to walk peoplethrough that because they don't
know what they don't know.

SPEAKER_02 (21:47):
I love that.
It it's it put puts your surgeongeneral's warnings on
everything, right?

SPEAKER_00 (21:52):
Yeah, and that's what it is.
It's it's and it's not to tokeep from getting sued, it's to
protect relationships andprovide better customer
experience.
But I use that as examplesbecause that I'm warning you
right now, this is what's gonnahappen.

SPEAKER_02 (22:06):
The the the thing that I that I the way that I
always frame that is if yourcustomers are wondering, you're
losing.

SPEAKER_00 (22:13):
Correct.
Absolutely.
I like that.

SPEAKER_02 (22:15):
So so if they're wondering when are, you know,
when or why or how, right?
Like, man, I wonder how they'regonna do this.
You're losing right there.
Yeah.
What I wonder when materials aregonna be delivered.
I wonder when the crew's gonnastart.
I wonder when the job's gonnastart.
I wonder when my when mysalesperson's gonna be here.

(22:39):
I wonder what is going to happenwhen my you said you guys do a
really thorough inspection.
Like, how do you frame, youknow, framing that up front that
this is the expectation?
Hey, when our sales rep or whenour project manager or project,
whatever you call your, yourpre, when they get there, this
is what to expect.

(23:01):
Right?
Like this is how we, this iswhat we're gonna do.
These are all the things we'regonna do.
We're gonna look at all thesedifferent things.
We're gonna show you thesethings, we're gonna walk you
around your house.
We're gonna, you're gonna, whenwe, when our when our when our
uh estimator, when oursalesperson walks you around
your house, guess what you'regonna find?
Things that you'd have you'venever even seen before.

(23:24):
Right?
If you set that expectation andthen they're walking around the
house and and you're like, hey,yeah, see that up there, and
they're like, I've never seenthat.
The person on the phone who setthe appointment told me I'd see
things that I had never seenbefore.
Right.
If you could carry thatconversation throughout the
power in something like that,not that you're gonna get it
perfect every time, but the youknow, to can to to continuously

(23:48):
try to have that intention.
Um what are some of the thingsthat you have found over the
years, some of the biggest gapsin expectations from a homeowner
with the roofing company?
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What are some of the things thatyou have found over the years,
some of the biggest gaps inexpectations from a homeowner
with the roofing company?

SPEAKER_00 (25:05):
Uh messes, you know, cleanup, they don't realize it's
gonna be as be as cumbersome asit is.
Uh the timeline on whether it'sdealing with insurance, getting
back from mortgage, andsupplementing, supplements are a
huge thing, especially nowadays.
Is it can take 30, 60, 90 daystrying to get supplements

(25:27):
approved.
So keeping them in the loop andlike, well, I thought this would
get done a lot quicker.
I mean, you just told me, well,it's not I used to just get on
the phone, shoot one email ortext message and was taken care
of.
Not anymore.
Yeah.
Because they've they've uh tiedthe hands on a lot of adjusters
and they've handcuffed them towhat they can and can't approve

(25:48):
anymore.

SPEAKER_05 (25:49):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (25:50):
So there's there's a lot of red tape with insurance.
Good, bad, otherwise, it is whatit is, and we have to adapt.

SPEAKER_02 (25:58):
Yeah, and and yeah, and it and we're always
adapting, right?
But like, so how do you continueto get that message?
I don't know how manysalespeople you have now, but
you've I mean you've had somebig teams over the years, and
you know, between between all ofthe companies now in the
portfolio, like, I mean, youguys probably have a pretty big
team.
How do you keep those?
How do you keep that messaging?

(26:20):
How do you keep uh how do youkeep your sales reps now setting
those same expectations prosetting the expectations
properly?

SPEAKER_00 (26:29):
Continued training, daily trainings, daily
accountability meetings withyour team.
Uh you know, we're extremelyguilty of, you know, and I say
we, it's uh myself, the youknow, a lot of roofing
companies.
Oh, we have sales meeting once aonce a week.
Well, we cancel them every oncein a while because we're too

(26:50):
busy.
Uh we so now we meet once a weekif we do, and then we talk about
a few things over a phone callor in person for the next seven
days, and then we have a meetingagain.
There it has to be daily, it hasto be daily focus.
And and that's where you have tohave things automated.

(27:11):
You you know, as much as we hatehate processes and sales guys
want to just go sell and yougotta have some you gotta have
some automations and someaccountability with them because
and at the same time, your bestsales guys, they need some, they
need assistance.
And so you have an operationsteam.
Our sales guys, they don't do asingle work order one, they put

(27:33):
their stuff together andsomebody else builds their work
order, somebody else all theyjust have to make sure they
translate the the playbookproperly and do a good handoff.
And you're don't ask sales guysto be construction guys, but
teach them constructionconstruction to understand it,

(27:53):
to talk about it, but they don'thave to be a construction expert
go go stay focused on sales.

SPEAKER_02 (28:02):
Yeah.
What what were some of thelessons over the years that have
gotten you to this point?
Like, did you ever try to makethem like construction experts,
or did you ever like, or wereyou always around this mindset,
like let's just build a salesteam and hit and hit and and go
go hit the ground and and andsell?

SPEAKER_00 (28:21):
So one of the biggest problems is that most
companies don't know that getstarted, especially when you're
big sales driven, just becausethat guy tells you he can put a
roof on does not mean he can puta roof on properly.

SPEAKER_05 (28:39):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (28:40):
And so then you get a sales guy that now you're
gonna be a project manager andgo out and run your own job.
And well, I don't get paid tooversee the crew roofing, I get
paid by selling jobs.
So I'm not even overseeing this.
Well, that lifespan of a salesrep at a company doesn't last

(29:00):
more than two or three years alot of times.
So, and a lot of these companiesdon't last three years.
Well, those warranties I mean, Isee a company right now that's
been in business for for lessthan two years, they're
advertising 10-year workmanshipwarranties, 15-year workmanship
warranties.
How?
Because that I mean they can't.

(29:21):
I mean they can, but thewarranty stuff happens.
It's gonna all companies havewarranties, but a lot of guys
are avoid taking care ofwarranties.
And so that's your you have tohave people in charge of your
warranties, and those are moreimportant than anything else.
Somebody calls you three yearslater, five years later, you
better get out there and takecare of it.

SPEAKER_02 (29:41):
Yeah.
That's the the and and those arethose are opportunity calls.
Correct.
Like to me, those are likethat's an opportunity to shine,
right?
Like that's an opportunity to tomake a raving fan.
Um, you know, that's anopportunity to get referred.
That's an opportunity.

(30:03):
There's a lot of opportunitythere.
What's the what do how do youguys re how like are you
constantly recruiting salesreps?
Do you have you know what you'vedone a lot of cool stuff, and
this is this is one of the onethings that I wanted to talk
about with you.
Maybe we'll just shift gearsgears there now.
But over the years, you know,you you know, you see all the

(30:26):
industry compensation models andand and you've really kind of
tried to change the way youthought about that.
I I think you've been veryunique in the way that you're
thinking about your yourcompensation for sales reps.
Um you know, let's talk abouttraditional, like what you what
you saw when you entered theindustry and what you paid over

(30:50):
the years, and then the changethat you made, and and and you
know, we'll get into some of thewhys and and what how that's
working.
So let's start off with when yougot in the industry, what how
were you getting paid when youwere a sales rep?

SPEAKER_00 (31:02):
When I was a sales rep, I came in like, hey, we're
gonna get you set up on 1099 andfill out this, all these forms,
sign this contract.
You just like, okay, sign it,move on.

SPEAKER_05 (31:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (31:13):
And you know, as a business owner for, you know,
with a partner in the restaurantbusiness, I was I was used to
doing taking care of my owntaxes and doing all that, which
also got myself in trouble acouple years too, when I'm 19,
20 years old.
And so when the state of thestate send you letters telling
you that yeah, penalties and allthis just surpass four or five

(31:36):
thousand dollars just onpenalties and interest, and
like, oh man, what?
No way.
Hey, there is no negotiatingthat, you're paying that crap.
So that's what so that, butthat's the same thing for all
guys, you know, guys or girls,when they come into a company,
you're supposed to wear yourbadge, supposed to show up to

(31:57):
these meetings, supposed to doall that, but you're paying me
as a$10.99 to avoid payingworkers' comp insurance, to
avoid paying payroll taxes.
And I know a lot of people doit, but who's responsible if you
fall off that roof?
We are the homeowners.
And so we've we've had, I mean,subcontractors that actually I

(32:22):
had it happen a couple years agothat they had fraudulent
insurance.
The insurance agent.
There's a bunch of fraud withwith insurance agents, had one
with subcontractors, beeninsured for years.
He switched over to a differentguy because he's gonna save him
a bunch of money, guy he met,and that guy was deducting money
out of his account every monthfor his agency, not for the

(32:44):
insurance company.
But it's giving outcertificates.
So we we messed up there, andbut you know, they ended up
costing$100 and some oddthousand dollars, but we have
workers' comp coverage.
And and so we have we carryworkers' comp on every one of
our employees, and and that'sgonna flow uphill.
So if I don't have workers compand that guy got hurt through my

(33:04):
subcontractor, guess who'spaying for it out of pocket?
I just saw a prominent companyyet two days ago, over the
weekend the sales rep wasdriving drunk.
Got tea booked, yes, turnedaround on the highway, done a

(33:25):
U-turn in the middle of thehighway, and got in a wreck with
a semi.
And this is heartbreaking to seethat happen to anyone and
another company, and we've we'vehad that happen too, is that
that's why we have GPS andcameras in all of our vehicles
to protect us.
We we have to protect the brand.

SPEAKER_02 (33:44):
Yeah.
So in in the so you you wentfrom, did you start off at a W-2
model with Royal when you firststarted, or was that something
that you transitioned to?

SPEAKER_00 (33:55):
Yeah, so all of our yeah, all of our sales teams
always been W-2.
They're you know, I try toserve, but I realized quick like
that's not a good model.
Uh, but the 1050-50, I mean, Ipaid off the don't matter if you
pay 1050-50 or a or or part ofthe contract amount, when you

(34:18):
when you have whether they'renew sales guys that don't know
what they're selling, or youhave experienced sales guys
that, hey,$300 is better thannothing.
I want to sign this contract andget to the$400 and and and move
on.
And so when you do a$1050-50,50% of nothing's still nothing.

(34:39):
And a 50-50 split when there's athousand dollars left over,$500,
you just bought yourself aheadache.

SPEAKER_05 (34:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (34:48):
And so now magnitude that a you know,$18,$20 million
got all these sales guysbuilding their own jobs.
They're they're all getting, ohwell, I won't collect on that
one, I'll just move on.
I won't collect on that onebecause we didn't talk, we
didn't give them the SurgeonGeneral's warning on what's
going on.
So that customer is mad.
We're just gonna take a$1,500off and collect the money and go

(35:12):
on.
I just won't get paid.
That's how a lot of sales guysthink.
And I'll make it up in the nextone.
I didn't get paid on this one.
I'll go, so you leave hundredsof thousands of dollars in
collections out there.
And we have a little, I mean,we've had a little bit over the
years, but not not like a lot ofpeople have, and you hate to see

(35:32):
that for anyone.
And and so when you do a 50-50model, I don't want, I we don't
need practice.
We have pro so like on theconstruction side, I mean, we
want to make sure our jobs arebuilt properly.
We have really good crews, wespend time working with them as
well.
We don't just bring in any crewthat says they can.

(35:53):
I mean, our main crew in KansasCity, he's been roofing for me,
I mean, since 2011.
So he's been on my job.
So that's that's relationships.
And now one of the guys on thatcrew, his son is doing roasts
for us now.
So his son was nine years old atthe time, you know.
So that's that's good to thatwe're able to to continue

(36:18):
quality of work and mistakeshappen.
I mean, weather happens, andyou're always gonna have some
type of warranty calls.

SPEAKER_05 (36:25):
But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (36:26):
But on the and so the 1050-50 split, how are we
protecting ourselves?
Who's approving that job?
A sales manager that's trying toget job, he's busy trying to get
guys, he's got five jobs.
No, I have one person thatapproves every single job in our
company, and they got they getred light, yellow light, green

(36:49):
lighted, and I get a copy everytime it goes.
If it's not green light, Iactually get a copy.
I have other people handle it,but we get maybe one yellow
light a week.
And margins aren't where quitewhere they need to be.
And usually it's because we getone red light every two weeks.

SPEAKER_05 (37:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (37:11):
And so that's a training, it's either one they
got should have been insupplementing, or the yellow
lights are usually it'ssomething that guys miss a
couple things on.
Uh, ice and water shield,something like that.
They can miss on the scope.
So we just have we have peoplethat go through every scope that
go through help all the salesguys.

(37:31):
So let them go sell.
But we we're very big onbelieving we have the company to
protect the brand, the companyhas to be paid first on every
job.

SPEAKER_02 (37:45):
This is where I want to go.
The how are you structuring it?
Because you the 1050-50, likeyou said, there's 50% of nothing
is nothing, right?
A percentage of the job doesn'tlike that doesn't work out a lot
of time.
Like, so how are you structuringthat in in in a in a way that it
the and and then let's get intolike your red, yellow, green,

(38:07):
like what constitutes red andyellow, right?

SPEAKER_00 (38:11):
Yeah, so so what is our profit percentages we need
on those to so if it's a redlight, it's it's below our
bottom profit percentage.
So, and then you got and thenyour medium, which your yellow
light, you'll sell those jobsall the day long, but you also
see if management approved a jobthat that hey, go ahead and get
this one sold, I'll let you sellthat price.

SPEAKER_02 (38:33):
You know, so they have to get approval on a yellow
light.
They can't sell a red light.
Is that how is that how you'reworking it?
Yep.
Yep.
And and we're not saying this iswhat I want people to
understand.
When it hits red light, it's notum, this isn't this job went
negative.
This is we're based on thescope, we we're not at the

(38:55):
profit percentage that we thatwe need to achieve to be a to to
be a healthy company, right?
Like that's what you're basingthat on, right?
Like we're not saying, oh no,red light is we're losing money
on this job.
Oh no, we're losing money.
No, no, no, we're not evengetting there.
We're not getting to the losingmoney.
And and not that you know, youmight have some surprises down

(39:18):
the road or something thathappens on that job that that
that, but this is sales repturns in the job.
It that that that scope gets ranthrough by that that individual
and they read, yellow, andgreen.
And am I getting it right?
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SPEAKER_02 (40:08):
Sales rep turns in the job.
It that that that scope gets ranthrough by that that individual
and they read, yellow, andgreen.
Am I getting it right?
Yep, I have a guy in Boliviathat does all that for us.

SPEAKER_00 (40:20):
So builds every builds every order.
And that, yeah, that no, you'reexactly right.
Is it's red lighted because ithits a profit percentage that is
not acceptable.
But also, it may hit a profitpercentage.
It's not acceptable for us, butit's I don't want a sales guy
not to make money either.

(40:40):
They're out there busting theirbutt.
Yes.
So you take a new guy that,well, I didn't know.
I thought, I thought I could dothis.
No, wait a minute.
You gotta you gotta charge himfor additional layers.
You have to charge for are-deck.
You have you can't give awaythis pro, you can't give this
stuff away.
And and so it was like, oh man,it was my first, you know, and

(41:01):
then you talk to Manager, man,it was his first sale.
It was I was there, I helped himclose it and I let it go, but we
don't just to just to get a winisn't it's not always a win.
And on that 10, so that redlight for us is that 1050-50
split when it goes out, when nowwhen you collect and try doing a

(41:24):
P ⁇ L and realize like, wait aminute, there's only$800 here to
split.
We don't want that job.

SPEAKER_05 (41:33):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (41:34):
Don't if there's$800 here to split, you're not, we're
taking the$800, you get zero.
Yeah.
And so you have to, if you wantto be a good, if you have to
give jobs away, you're not agood salesman.

SPEAKER_05 (41:46):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (41:47):
And so do we make concessions at times?
Absolutely, whether it'smultifamily, weather, what
whatever it is to help somebody,uh, elderly person, person on,
you know, low income, thingslike that.
We we do that all the time.
But you cannot just walk out andand and give everybody a huge
discount and think you gotta winjust because you signed

(42:11):
something.
So that just because you signcontract.

SPEAKER_05 (42:14):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (42:15):
So so we it gives us an it's a learning opportunity
for a sales guy to go back andlike, oh, wait a minute, I
didn't see this in the entrancego.
Like, we had one the other day,it's like you're off four square
with waste and and entrancethough.
Why didn't you catch us?
Oh man, I just completelyoverlooked it.

(42:36):
Well, you got in a hurry tryingto sign a deal, which I get it,
I understand, but I don't wantyou.
Hey, we'll we can supplementthis.
This isn't a big deal, but it isa big deal because if we just
run it through as is and itdoesn't get invoiced out the
back end or a supplement toinsurance, that stuff.
This is you're gonna you'regonna make about$200 on that

(42:58):
job.
You work too hard to get$200.
I don't want my guys working forfree.
They work too hard.

SPEAKER_02 (43:03):
I love that that it creates the it's their metrics
that create feedbackopportunities for training,
right?
Correct.
Yes, they're also it's also tome, the let me think it it also
can create feedback on, youknow, I mean, from a larger
perspective, is is this personthe right person for the job,

(43:24):
right?
Because if somebody keepsturning in jobs that are yellow
and red and they're all yellowand red, to your point, they're
either missing stuff or they'reunderselling.
They're not, you know, they'rethe so if they're not it, I I
love metrics that lead to betteroutcomes, right?
So now it's like, okay, now wecould train this person up.

(43:44):
We train them up, we train themup.
Oh, they're not getting it.
Well, they're still not gettingit.
They're still not getting it.
Okay, now we know they might notbe the right person.
You know what I mean?
But you're giving them realopportunity in that training
process to get, oh no, this isthis is what it is, this is why
you missed it.

(44:05):
You know, we'll supplement forthat.
Or next time make sure you catchthat.
And, you know, so I I love thatit's giving you a good feedback
loop also on your team members.

SPEAKER_00 (44:17):
Yep.
So yeah, what we've done isconverted, we call a red line
model.
This is one thing you took fromthe solar industry.
We took from them and said, thisworks great in solar because all
these uh the EPCs, the EPCs isthe install companies, you
usually sign their contract.
So you had the salesorganizations that went on just

(44:38):
sold.
They could sell at$6 a watt,$4 awatt,$3 a watt.
They knew, but their red linewas$2.50 a watt,$2 a watt.

SPEAKER_05 (44:50):
Got it.

SPEAKER_00 (44:50):
Some got down to $1.15, and that's when you knew
you were going to get a reallycrappy install.
Uh so there was a lot, andthat's why we started installing
our own solar, and we figuredall that out through there, but
you gotta know your you gottaknow your numbers.
And and so I mean, I asked a guythe other day, and he's like, I
go, how do you do your bids?

(45:12):
He goes, our sales, I go, do youdo bid?
Well, we're mainly insurance, wework off the insurance scope.
I go, what about somebody askfor a bid?
Well, they gotta come back hereand then we'll pull an Eagle
View, and and then when I gettime, I'll write the bid for
them.
And I'm just like, holy smokes,get out of the way.
Get out of the way.

(45:33):
And this is me talking to myyounger self, get out of the
way, Austin.
And so we have a per squareprice that they have to is their
red line.
So so whatever you and it justit's a lot like entrance.
You have adders for steepcharges, two-story charges,
decking, but here's your basicone-story, 512 roof.

(45:56):
I don't care if there's 17sticks of drip edge or 27 sticks
of drip edge or six turtle ventsor 10 turtle vents.
It's a law of averages.
Yeah, the law of averages.
If you cannot give somebody aprice on site when you when we
have met we pull measurements upfor every single home we go to,

(46:18):
I pay somebody full time to pullmeasurements.
So I don't have to useEagleView, I don't have to use
Hover, I don't have to use allthat stuff because that does get
expensive.
We have somebody full time thatpulls a measurement, it's worth
the money.
Go put the measurement, have itready.
When our sales guy shows up,they can put a price together.

(46:41):
They have the power, they knowwhat their commissions are when
they're presenting the job.
Long as long as you train themright to do it, to we we call it
quick bid.
And so you have to know what howto do a quick bid.
You got you gotta know be ableto calculate how many squares
are.
You gotta know how much waste,hip ridge starter, you got steep

(47:02):
charges, you have chimneyflashing.
It's just it's a lot similar,like entrance scope, but it's
everything's a charge.
And if you want to give that jobaway, that's on you.
It's coming, you're paying forit, not us.
And so uh we have it set up,it's a 60-40 split.

(47:24):
You get 60 if you generate thelead.
If we hand you the lead, you get40.
So go out and knock doors, knockmore doors, go generate how much
other you make the money thanpaying it to Google or Facebook.
That's right.
And it's a but it's a higherquality lead.
So go get in front of thatperson and you're gonna make an

(47:46):
extra you know six hundred to athousand dollars a job
typically.
Or sometimes maybe more thanthat.
Some of these jobs are three orfour thousand dollar difference.
So go and the way it's if yousell properly, if you want to
take a percentage of thecontract, just to kind of
reverse it for a lot tounderstand, is you're between 12

(48:08):
and 18 percent of the contract alot of times, right in there.
So if you sell gin, you'repushing you know 15 to 18
percent.
If you take the lead from thecompany, you're looking at you
know 10 to 14.
So, and I've had some that comein four and five percent.
But guess what?
We didn't know.

(48:29):
You did, you chose to sell thatcheap.
That's cool that you got thejob, but we have to maintain the
warranty.
We still over have overhead, westill have a business to run.
So if we don't do it that wayand trying to scale, there's a
lot of, and I know you and Ishared privately what our
commissions or what our profitmargins are, but I include our

(48:54):
commissions go above the linewith labor and materials.
And our gross, so our grossprofit, materials labor, and
commissions are higher than mostcompanies that just after
material labor.

SPEAKER_02 (49:10):
That's right.
And that and I think that's agreat testament to the way that
you've structured this, andthat's why I wanted to get into
it.
Like, I think uh, first of all,I think a lot of contractors,
and you could tell me if youthink this too, they just don't
even they don't even know theirnumbers from a job costing

(49:32):
perspective.
Like they really don't know.
And then a lot of times,especially uh some if if you're
newer or or need the work, youyou undervalue.
I'm gonna I'm gonna say youundervalue yourself, right?

SPEAKER_03 (49:49):
Like correct.

SPEAKER_02 (49:51):
And and and and so, you know, or if you go into a
market and you're like, well,everyone's selling at this per
square.
I have to sell at this persquare.
But that's not the truth, right?
Like the truth is you have tosell at what you need to be at,
not what someone down the roadneeds to be at.

SPEAKER_00 (50:10):
So we and we have to give those guys the tools, and
that's what our salesleadership.
We have some really goodsalespeople that are really good
at what they do.
They work with homeowners,they're you know, a lot more
consultative sales, but youknow, you can't be super pushy
or anything like that, but we'rethere to sell it.
I mean, you're there to mean yougot it, you're getting a new

(50:31):
roof.
We're not selling somebody roofthat don't need one.
Yeah.
And, you know, and that that wasthe deal with solar.
So many people were sold solar,they shouldn't have bought it.
And so there's different, yeah,you're you can be sold a roof
and don't need one, but youknow, we got a five-star review
yesterday because the guythought he needed a new roof was

(50:52):
actually wasn't a roof issue, itwas a gutter issue.
And so we went out there,addressed it for him, and didn't
charge him anything, gave us afive-star review.
Because he he was prepared towrite a check to put a new roof
on his house.

SPEAKER_02 (51:06):
Yeah, that was a good day for him.

SPEAKER_00 (51:08):
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah, I guarantee you he hehad heartburn all day on that
deal.
But that's right.
We'll solve his problem and andand and and that's good.
It's a win if you if you can dothat.

SPEAKER_02 (51:22):
Yeah, definitely.
I also like the fact, when didyou did did you always do the
the self-gen versus company gensplits differently, or did was
that something that changed overthe years?

SPEAKER_00 (51:36):
Uh yeah, because you know, I've tried a couple
different ways of like, youknow, percentage, like, okay,
get two more percent for aself-gen, you know, we're paying
8%, 10%.
And, you know, if it's a companylead, I know some some companies
pay 4% for a company lead and 7%for a self gen.
And and you're like, man, Ican't, man, that's a lot.

(51:57):
Go make your money.
Go make your money.
But we're still getting ourmoney.
So so we have that red line.
You gotta, I mean, we're makingour margins that we need to make
to keep a business right.

SPEAKER_05 (52:09):
That's right.

SPEAKER_00 (52:10):
And so, man, you guys, that seems no, it's
because if you do a 1050-50split, I know one company out
there right now that gets 18between 12 and 18% rebates from
the supplier and manufacture.
Well, guess what?
That they're putting that on theyou're paying that for shingles.

(52:31):
Let's not, let's not get intowhat are we paying for shingles,
what are we paying for dripedge.
And even back on the biddingside, is if you got to calculate
every single piece of drip edge,every piece or every every foot
of starter, every turtle vent,if you're trying to get that
precise, you're going, it's alaw of averages, speed delete,

(52:55):
empower your guys, because it'sgonna wash out really quickly if
you have a process of whatthey're selling for.
But yeah, if you're trying to doa 1050-50 split and letting them
sell, they're trying tocalculate, you're you're leaving
too many margins, too muchmargin of error there.

SPEAKER_02 (53:10):
Margin of error.
Yep.
Yeah.
So don't matter if there's sixturtle vents or there's 16.
Another thing I wanted to talkto you about was mergers and
acquisitions, right?
You Royal and Abernathy mergedtogether.
Um, how did that come about?

SPEAKER_00 (53:27):
Yeah, so yeah, we built our companies on
relationships.
And I we have a storm and I'dhave, you know, whether
insurance agents, I mean, I'dget I'd get 30 leads an hour
some days.
I mean, that's where, I mean, weand we'd look up two days later
and be four or five hundredleads deep.
And and so, you know, and I saya couple of days, it usually,

(53:52):
you know, within within four orfive days, we'd have that many
leads a lot of those times.
And and now those homeowners arenot calling their insurance
agent, they're getting doorknocked before that even
happens, or they're they're justgetting on on social media and
getting a referral to a roofer.

(54:12):
They're not they're not going totheir insurance agent.
The insurance agent is is kindof gets left alone now.
A lot of people don't rely ontheir insurance agents like they
used to.
But insurance relationships arestill important, those insurance
agents.

SPEAKER_05 (54:25):
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (54:26):
So, John and I like, okay, how do we we get a storm
in Kansas City?
Well, I can send my team upthere, I can send my team to
southern Missouri and help youout, but how does that work?
How would that look, what wouldthat look like?
That's a lot of chaos.
Trying to help each other andlike this or that is going to be
very confusing.
Yeah.

(54:47):
And so then we're like, I'mlike, John, why don't we?
I know this kind of from leftfield here, but why don't we
just merge and create onecompany?
Now let's look at the biggerpicture of look at what our
value is, because we're merging,we're not hurting the value of
either company.
We're going to increase thevalue of the company.

(55:07):
Yeah.
So we're actually helping eachother.
And we're going to cut our costsdown, our operating cost.
We're going to be able to sharesome of the expenses and do all
that.
So we really sit down, spent aweekend going through because it
was just kind of a left field.
Why don't we merge?
Like, because John and I areboth really good at coming up
with bad ideas out loud.

(55:29):
So it's one's like, hey, wait aminute, that may be a decent
idea.
Let's talk about it.
And let's so we spent a weekendreally going through it, got our
wives involved.
And they're like, where the helldid this come from?
Another one of you guys' crazyideas.
And and that's what they bothkind of looked at first, like,
well, let's let's meet.
So we actually spent a weekendtogether and really hashed
things out and talked aboutthings and like, wait a minute,

(55:52):
this actually makes sense.
And and so that's when westarted the process of of
putting a merger together.

SPEAKER_02 (56:01):
What were uh so so let's just talk about the the
lessons of of merging, right?
Like what are what are some ofthe things that came together
well?
What were some of the challengesthat you guys have faced in
that?
Um, you know, what what advicewould you give to someone else?

SPEAKER_00 (56:19):
Uh, you know what?
The biggest thing is alignmentfrom leadership.
You have to be aligned, you haveto have the same values and it
won't work.

unknown (56:32):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (56:32):
And you and and it's like a marriage too.
You gotta be have, you gottahumble yourself at times and and
uh and respect the others'opinions and input.
And when you when you're runninga three, four million dollar
company by yourself or running a$10 million company by yourself,

(56:52):
you're never running it byyourself.
You have other people, but youare your hand for the first$5
million, your hands in everypiece of it.
You're making two all thedecisions, and and you get used
to making all the decisions,you're like, oh, wait a minute.
I have partners, I have torespect them, and you have to do
what's best for the company.

(57:14):
There's things that marketingthings or different things
you've sponsored or done overthe years that it may not make
sense anymore.
Like it never really madefinancial sense to do that, but
we've always done it.
And so you you have to you haveto humble yourself, I guess, is
you know, business-wise and andmake sure you're still getting

(57:34):
others' opinions and input andand talk about it as a team.
Is like, okay, I have real, andI've always been good about you
know, within the royalleadership, to give them input
and be a part of the decisionmaking.
Because I tell them not makingdecision at all is worse than
making it the wrong decision.

(57:56):
And and so that's what you gotto empower your people there.
But for us, it that was a it wasnever a challenge.
I could definitely because theattorneys make a lot of money on
a merger, but they're there toprotect us because you I'm like,
guys, it's just some damnpaperwork.
John and I are good friends,Sarah and Buffy are great

(58:16):
friends.
Let's just get the paperwork andlet's get it done.
And they are laughing at me.
I'm like, it's not hard.
Why are we going through this?
Like, be prepared to spend tospend a lot of money.
That's so if you're not preparedto spend, but they pre I can
only imagine if a merger wouldnot work.

(58:39):
It's just like a marriage isn'tgonna work if you don't have
mutual values and mutual ideasand mutual goals.
Yeah.
And and so the attorneys, yes,they made great money, but they
protected us.
They protected both parties.
And you know, and actually thereare two attorneys, the attorney
I used, I've always used theattorney John's always used,

(59:00):
they actually had already donesome things, several business
dealings together.
So it wasn't it, they'd already,they were already friends.
So I can imagine people thatknow each other trying to make
something happen.
But alignment is the big is thekey, having good business
alignment.

SPEAKER_02 (59:19):
Yeah.
Where do you see the future ofof roofing going and where do
you see the future of Royal andAbernathy in that?

SPEAKER_00 (59:27):
You know, you see the guys that are PE, it's
you're gonna you're gonna drownout, you're gonna get drowned
out if you don't join PE.
But what other companies that'sout there that's owned by PE
that's not roofing in any marketin the in the home services

(59:47):
category that there's still notlocal, other local companies.
Plumbing, there's plenty oflocal plumbing companies.
There's plenty of local HVACcompanies.
Now you want to get in dental,PE's big in dental.
And veterinaries.
There's plenty of veterinariansout there still that do make a
great money that are that didn'tsell private equity.
Same as there's a lot of PEdental companies out there that

(01:00:11):
bought up a lot of dentists, butthere's still plenty of local
dentists out there.
So I mean it's whether it's ahome service or any type of, you
know, you're still doing uhwhat, you know, you need
everybody needs a dentist,everybody needs a doctor, but
it's not all PE.
So do they push, they pusheveryone to get better.

(01:00:33):
If you don't get better, I mean,yes, uh there's no more Ben
Franklin stores, Walmart.
So we can use Walmart.
Walmart done that.
There's a reason why there's adollar store on every corner
now.
It's called Amazon.
Amazon's push dollar storesbecome become more convenient.

(01:00:53):
Because the dollar store, peoplearen't driving three miles
through town to go to a dollarstore.
If it's not convenient, they'reordering on Amazon.
So Amazon's made made us lazy asa consumer.
Instacart, Uber Eats, it's it'sconvenience.
So when you talk roofing, youknow, what's the old meme that

(01:01:14):
says you cheap, fast, good?
Yeah.
Pick two of three.
How long has that meme beenaround?

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:23):
A long time.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:25):
Why has it got to evolve too?
I want cheap, fast, and good.
Why can't I get it?
Because I get it with Amazon.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:32):
I want it now.
Well, outside of Yeti coolersand you know, different things,
you you want stuff now, youwon't be rewarded now.
You want it at a fair price, andyou expect good quality.
So you're telling me if I get itright now for a fair price,

(01:01:53):
you're gonna put a crappy roofon my house?
No, you're gonna get the sameroof.

SPEAKER_05 (01:01:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:59):
So that's cheap, fast, good.
They want to give me all theabove.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:07):
What advice would you have for uh for for somebody
that's uh that you know that orthe advice you would give
yourself when you started iffrom from where you are now?

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:22):
You know, probably if I was to start all over again
at zero, don't do it byyourself.
Find alignment.
And when you're in your 20s and30s, it's harder because you're
more aggressive a lot of times.
You're you're a little bithardcore, you don't it's it's

(01:02:46):
harder.
Just like it's just like back onmarriages.
A lot of marriages don't last intheir twelve people get married
at a young age.
It's the same as a businessrelationship, it don't always
last, and that's not good.
You hate to burn bridges, youhate to burn relationships.
Those relationships matter.
But if I wouldn't want to gostart a riffing company from

(01:03:06):
ground zero again, I want ateam.
I've always wanted a team, andthat's where I can probably go
make more money going out anddoing sales and having three
office people and and twoproject managers running jobs.
I can probably go make, but Idon't want to do that.
And and so yeah, to the youngerme would be don't do it by

(01:03:28):
yourself.
It's 10 years ago, I think, isdifferent for a lot of people,
but this day and age with PE,there's too many, there's too
many uphill challenges.
I mean, from I mean, marketingwas easier 10 years ago.
And now you got 14 marketingcompanies, you got everybody
hitting you up there, you gottarun a business.

(01:03:49):
Yeah and if you are trying toworry about that roof going on
the house today, too, becauseit's hard to scale.
And and some people just want togo and sell two roofs at three
roofs a month and they're happy,and there's nothing wrong with
that at all.
I'm friends with those guys andI support them and and I take
their phone calls and help themany way I can.

(01:04:09):
And and so I'm not I'm notanti-anyone and I'm not
anti-private equity.
I get the business model, but Idon't think if you don't evolve
in business in general, you'regonna be gone.
If you don't have systems andprocesses, you're gonna be gone.
And just like keeping bad salesguys around or bad roofing

(01:04:32):
crews, it you have to you haveto get better every day.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:38):
Awesome, man.
Get better every day.
This has been another episode ofthe Roofing Success Podcast.
Thank you for tuning in to theRoofing Success Podcast.
For more valuable content, visitRoofing SuccessPodcast.com.
While there, check out oursponsors for exclusive offers,
shop for merchandise, and signup for our newsletter for

(01:04:58):
industry updates and tips.
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SPEAKER_02 (01:05:12):
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