January 13, 2026 • 11 mins
In the wake of a scathing internal review on the All Blacks coaching squad, pressure is mounting on NZR to make changes as players revolt.
Elliott Smith and Liam Napier discuss the breaking news.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio,
Straight Down the Middle of.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Drop, Dicky sc Try these Pocket.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Inside the Game from Every angle. It's Rugby Direct with
Elliot Smith and Leam Napier powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Access Solutions. We have
convened an emergency edition of Rugby Direct on January the fourteenth.
Feels like the earliest that we have ever gone to
record this but big movements in the world of the
All Black Slam. Napier, co host of Rugby Direct and
of course lead Rugby writer at The New Zealand Herald,
(00:59):
joins me and a big story from Liam that has
dropped this afternoon on the New Zealand Herald. You can
read it now, but basically outlines widespread frustrations from players
and support staff following the All Blacks Grand Slam Tour
last year. The feedback loud and clear, it says Legham
story that leaves New Zealand Rugby under serious pressure to
(01:21):
deliver sweeping coaching changes. Liam, are probably best for you
just to outline what you've heard first and foremost and
the basis of your pieces to where it stands right now.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Yeah, I let some of rugby developments are in full swing. Look,
some of this won't come as a major surprise to
our listeners and rugby observers, because it was pretty clear
at the back end of last year that things weren't
working for the All Blacks. We've seen two assistant coaches
depart that team, and there was a story at the
(01:54):
back end of last year about internal frustrations.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
So that's now come to a head in a big way.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
My understanding is there's multiple senior players have delivered stinging
feedback on the culture of the environment, the coaching, so
widespread unhappiness amongst that team, and unless there are major
changes made to that coaching team, you could have some
big names not playing for the flex again.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
So that's the basis of the story. Great montage picture
at the top Ardie Savia and Scott robertson Ardie Sava
suggesting in the story that sources have told you that
sav is exploring discussions to stay on with Kobe where
he's at at the moment, or join a European club.
So he obviously is particularly unhappy with the environment at
(02:45):
the moment.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
Yeah, that's my understanding, Elliott.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Multiple people from in and around the team rugby players
has told me that Savia is not alone, but he's
certainly one of the leading senior players that are unhappy
and is certainly exploring possibilities to not return to New
(03:09):
Zealand Rugby. And it's major news at this particular juncture,
isn't it.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
We're two years out from my ruguid World.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Cup, there's the South African Tour on the horizon, the
nation's championships about to start.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
He's a centurion All Black.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
You know, you could probably argue at the moment the
All Blacks are lacking genuine.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
World class players.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Well, he's certainly won World Player of the Year a
couple of years ago and he has made an influence
and sway within that team. So I think New Zealand
Rugby will be very nervous about that situation, will be
desperate to retain Nardi service service. He was captain a
number of times in Scott Barns's absence last year. But
(03:56):
he's clearly not happy and he's exploring possibilities offshore and
he would certainly be in major demand.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Well, that's right. We know that the value that he
would attract from Kobe let alone other teams around the world.
And if he decided he didn't want to play for
the All Blacks again, well there he could go to
Toulon or you know, one of the French clubs in
command a great deal of coin over there. But it
does illustrate how things potentially have, how badly they've gotten
if you keep player reigning All Black of the Year
(04:26):
is exploring potentially deciding not to play for this team again.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
And if you think back to you know, the depths
of the En Foster regime, Artie was actually one of
the pretty outspoken in his support for Foster. You know,
Foster didn't deliver results until those coaching changes came, but
he always had the support of the senior players. You
think about in South Africa, several senior players going to
(04:55):
jeffic get kid of Mark Robinson's hotel room and basically
demanding that Foster be retained.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Well, it's a real reverse of that situation now, isn't that.
You've had Scott Robinson come in and with two years
into his tenure, we haven't really seen any progress or
improvements and we're now having a situation where there's widespread
critical feedback of the coaching team, so as a real
(05:26):
major situation for New Zealand Ragby to tackle. And of
course at this juncture they have an interim CEO, so
you'd think chair and David Kirk holds the balance of
power in terms of deciding the path forward.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Before we get onto the path forward, Liam, you mentioned
obviously Robertson and Scott Hansen at the center of the
critical feedback. Do we know anything about the nature of
this feedback? Is that around the culture, the game plan
of the team, and I guess you know, have these
issues been festering for some time? It hasn't all just
happened over four weeks on the end of view tour.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
No, it hasn't.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
I think it's a gradual build up of tension and
frustrations and certainly those things you mentioned there around selection,
around strategy and feedback.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Even things a bit about trust.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
One sort of tip I heard was that after a
loss the coaches basically talked more. And you've got a
number of senior players that have played one hundred or tests,
they've been around the block and in previous regimes players
are empowered to talk about things like attack and defense,
(06:40):
and under this regime, I don't think that's really happened
a lot.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
That's a similar thing that I have heard over the
course of the summer. And you know, you get around
the barbecue or wherever it might be, and people have
got various tidbits. New Zealand is a very small country,
gets well connected and some of it you dispose of
and some of it you take on board. But there
were suggestions that it had gone from being somewhat of
a player lead environment. The all blacks, you know, empowered,
(07:06):
the players are empowered so to lead the way they
wanted to very much having changed, and the players didn't
quite have the say that maybe they did under previous
regimes like Ian Foster.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Yeah, that's what I've heard as well.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
And look, these guys have had so many different experiences.
You think of guys like Boden Barrett, Cody Taylor, Artie Severe,
there's a number of guys that have been to World Cups.
I had the highs and lows and lived through it,
and in many respects that coaching team hasn't. So there
(07:40):
does in a modern rugby environment, there doesn't need to
be a real balance between player players taking charge and
I think and previous All Blacks regimes how it worked
as the coaches would hand things over to the players
towards the end of the week. I don't know whether
that's happening in this team, but I think with the
(08:02):
assistant coaches that have left them, particularly On McDonald and
Jason Holland, I think they felt much lies they didn't
get to say they wanted and that seems to have
filtered down towards the players as well.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
When you think back two years ago, there's a lot
of promise that you know around this coaching group. Scott Robertson,
with his record at the Crusaders, it was the popular
choice for him to be anointed to this role, but
it has unraveled now with these revelations out of the
internal review. Can it go on?
Speaker 1 (08:33):
You know?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Can They can't just all get back into camp. But
I think there is something happening in the next couple
of weeks, potentially in Auckland, before the teams really get
into super rugby business. They can't all be happy families
and everyone's going to move on that. That feels like
they will have to be some change doesn't it, and
what kind of form that is? Have you got any
inkling as to where they might go to from here?
Speaker 3 (08:56):
No, they certainly can't carry on as as Elliott. I
think they'd be not an uprising from the players. It's
probably a bit strong, but I think they would demand
changes and the other way. Ones that are out on
the fields and they are clearly not happy, So I
think there does need to be some form of change.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
How that looks, I'm not too sure.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
I think from what I've heard in terms of the
feedback and the review that Scott Hansen in particular is
under major pressure, so I wouldn't be surprised to see
him go potentially, But.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Which would be a third assistant coach of this raging.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
But Razer sits at the top of the tree, doesn't he.
So the buck stops with the head coach. We've seen
in with Ian Foster the difference that some assistant coaches
can make.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
But look, there's no denying.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
That Razors under serious, serious heat two years into a
four year tenure.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Have you heard you know? Is there is there a
plan as to the next steps internally at New Zealand Rugby.
Because you touched on early again, there's no CEO currently.
There's also no CFO, no Chief Commercial Officer. But this
is David K organization essential at the moment, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
It is no Ugy have gone to ground and I
tried to reach out to them in the past sort
of forty eight hours or so. To me, that suggests
that something is imminent, that changes will come, but I'm
not too sure exactly how that looks.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
One other point before we wrap up this emergency podcast, Liam,
you mentioned in your article a senior Blues player understood
to have declined an invitation to join the All Blacks
in their final test of the year and card from
the All Blacks fifteen. You know that speaks interesting volumes
about where players want to be If they don't want
to be in the All Blacks when that opportunity is
on the line, that's that's remarkable.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Oh, It's telling, isn't it? And it does speak to
the widespread issues. This is not ARTI Severa alone. There's
multiple senior players and then you go down a run
to someone who has been involved with the All Blacks
before and doesn't want want to be again under this
coaching team. So this is far from an isolated incident
(11:13):
or an isolated issue, and it does need to be
tackled head on, and it's very clear that changes need
to be made.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Watch the Space leam Aper thank you for joining me.
I hope you get back to your summer holidays at
some point soon.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Chiers Elliot always great to hear mate.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Watch the Space on New Zealand Herald dot co dot
nz and use talk zb for updates that has been
rugby direct and emergency. Addition, with our friends at Access Solutions.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
For more from news Talk ZEDB. Listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio,
Straight Down the Middle of.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Drop, Dicky sc Try these Pocket.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Inside the Game from Every angle. It's Rugby Direct with
Elliot Smith and Leam Napier powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Access Solutions. We have
convened an emergency edition of Rugby Direct on January the fourteenth.
Feels like the earliest that we have ever gone to
record this but big movements in the world of the
All Black Slam. Napier, co host of Rugby Direct and
of course lead Rugby writer at The New Zealand Herald,
(00:59):
joins me and a big story from Liam that has
dropped this afternoon on the New Zealand Herald. You can
read it now, but basically outlines widespread frustrations from players
and support staff following the All Blacks Grand Slam Tour
last year. The feedback loud and clear, it says Legham
story that leaves New Zealand Rugby under serious pressure to
(01:21):
deliver sweeping coaching changes. Liam, are probably best for you
just to outline what you've heard first and foremost and
the basis of your pieces to where it stands right now.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Yeah, I let some of rugby developments are in full swing. Look,
some of this won't come as a major surprise to
our listeners and rugby observers, because it was pretty clear
at the back end of last year that things weren't
working for the All Blacks. We've seen two assistant coaches
depart that team, and there was a story at the
(01:54):
back end of last year about internal frustrations.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
So that's now come to a head in a big way.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
My understanding is there's multiple senior players have delivered stinging
feedback on the culture of the environment, the coaching, so
widespread unhappiness amongst that team, and unless there are major
changes made to that coaching team, you could have some
big names not playing for the flex again.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
So that's the basis of the story. Great montage picture
at the top Ardie Savia and Scott robertson Ardie Sava
suggesting in the story that sources have told you that
sav is exploring discussions to stay on with Kobe where
he's at at the moment, or join a European club.
So he obviously is particularly unhappy with the environment at
(02:45):
the moment.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
Yeah, that's my understanding, Elliott.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Multiple people from in and around the team rugby players
has told me that Savia is not alone, but he's
certainly one of the leading senior players that are unhappy
and is certainly exploring possibilities to not return to New
(03:09):
Zealand Rugby. And it's major news at this particular juncture,
isn't it.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
We're two years out from my ruguid World.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Cup, there's the South African Tour on the horizon, the
nation's championships about to start.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
He's a centurion All Black.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
You know, you could probably argue at the moment the
All Blacks are lacking genuine.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
World class players.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Well, he's certainly won World Player of the Year a
couple of years ago and he has made an influence
and sway within that team. So I think New Zealand
Rugby will be very nervous about that situation, will be
desperate to retain Nardi service service. He was captain a
number of times in Scott Barns's absence last year. But
(03:56):
he's clearly not happy and he's exploring possibilities offshore and
he would certainly be in major demand.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Well, that's right. We know that the value that he
would attract from Kobe let alone other teams around the world.
And if he decided he didn't want to play for
the All Blacks again, well there he could go to
Toulon or you know, one of the French clubs in
command a great deal of coin over there. But it
does illustrate how things potentially have, how badly they've gotten
if you keep player reigning All Black of the Year
(04:26):
is exploring potentially deciding not to play for this team again.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
And if you think back to you know, the depths
of the En Foster regime, Artie was actually one of
the pretty outspoken in his support for Foster. You know,
Foster didn't deliver results until those coaching changes came, but
he always had the support of the senior players. You
think about in South Africa, several senior players going to
(04:55):
jeffic get kid of Mark Robinson's hotel room and basically
demanding that Foster be retained.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Well, it's a real reverse of that situation now, isn't that.
You've had Scott Robinson come in and with two years
into his tenure, we haven't really seen any progress or
improvements and we're now having a situation where there's widespread
critical feedback of the coaching team, so as a real
(05:26):
major situation for New Zealand Ragby to tackle. And of
course at this juncture they have an interim CEO, so
you'd think chair and David Kirk holds the balance of
power in terms of deciding the path forward.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Before we get onto the path forward, Liam, you mentioned
obviously Robertson and Scott Hansen at the center of the
critical feedback. Do we know anything about the nature of
this feedback? Is that around the culture, the game plan
of the team, and I guess you know, have these
issues been festering for some time? It hasn't all just
happened over four weeks on the end of view tour.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
No, it hasn't.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
I think it's a gradual build up of tension and
frustrations and certainly those things you mentioned there around selection,
around strategy and feedback.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Even things a bit about trust.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
One sort of tip I heard was that after a
loss the coaches basically talked more. And you've got a
number of senior players that have played one hundred or tests,
they've been around the block and in previous regimes players
are empowered to talk about things like attack and defense,
(06:40):
and under this regime, I don't think that's really happened
a lot.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
That's a similar thing that I have heard over the
course of the summer. And you know, you get around
the barbecue or wherever it might be, and people have
got various tidbits. New Zealand is a very small country,
gets well connected and some of it you dispose of
and some of it you take on board. But there
were suggestions that it had gone from being somewhat of
a player lead environment. The all blacks, you know, empowered,
(07:06):
the players are empowered so to lead the way they
wanted to very much having changed, and the players didn't
quite have the say that maybe they did under previous
regimes like Ian Foster.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Yeah, that's what I've heard as well.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
And look, these guys have had so many different experiences.
You think of guys like Boden Barrett, Cody Taylor, Artie Severe,
there's a number of guys that have been to World Cups.
I had the highs and lows and lived through it,
and in many respects that coaching team hasn't. So there
(07:40):
does in a modern rugby environment, there doesn't need to
be a real balance between player players taking charge and
I think and previous All Blacks regimes how it worked
as the coaches would hand things over to the players
towards the end of the week. I don't know whether
that's happening in this team, but I think with the
(08:02):
assistant coaches that have left them, particularly On McDonald and
Jason Holland, I think they felt much lies they didn't
get to say they wanted and that seems to have
filtered down towards the players as well.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
When you think back two years ago, there's a lot
of promise that you know around this coaching group. Scott Robertson,
with his record at the Crusaders, it was the popular
choice for him to be anointed to this role, but
it has unraveled now with these revelations out of the
internal review. Can it go on?
Speaker 1 (08:33):
You know?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Can They can't just all get back into camp. But
I think there is something happening in the next couple
of weeks, potentially in Auckland, before the teams really get
into super rugby business. They can't all be happy families
and everyone's going to move on that. That feels like
they will have to be some change doesn't it, and
what kind of form that is? Have you got any
inkling as to where they might go to from here?
Speaker 3 (08:56):
No, they certainly can't carry on as as Elliott. I
think they'd be not an uprising from the players. It's
probably a bit strong, but I think they would demand
changes and the other way. Ones that are out on
the fields and they are clearly not happy, So I
think there does need to be some form of change.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
How that looks, I'm not too sure.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
I think from what I've heard in terms of the
feedback and the review that Scott Hansen in particular is
under major pressure, so I wouldn't be surprised to see
him go potentially, But.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Which would be a third assistant coach of this raging.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
But Razer sits at the top of the tree, doesn't he.
So the buck stops with the head coach. We've seen
in with Ian Foster the difference that some assistant coaches
can make.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
But look, there's no denying.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
That Razors under serious, serious heat two years into a
four year tenure.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Have you heard you know? Is there is there a
plan as to the next steps internally at New Zealand Rugby.
Because you touched on early again, there's no CEO currently.
There's also no CFO, no Chief Commercial Officer. But this
is David K organization essential at the moment, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
It is no Ugy have gone to ground and I
tried to reach out to them in the past sort
of forty eight hours or so. To me, that suggests
that something is imminent, that changes will come, but I'm
not too sure exactly how that looks.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
One other point before we wrap up this emergency podcast, Liam,
you mentioned in your article a senior Blues player understood
to have declined an invitation to join the All Blacks
in their final test of the year and card from
the All Blacks fifteen. You know that speaks interesting volumes
about where players want to be If they don't want
to be in the All Blacks when that opportunity is
on the line, that's that's remarkable.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Oh, It's telling, isn't it? And it does speak to
the widespread issues. This is not ARTI Severa alone. There's
multiple senior players and then you go down a run
to someone who has been involved with the All Blacks
before and doesn't want want to be again under this
coaching team. So this is far from an isolated incident
(11:13):
or an isolated issue, and it does need to be
tackled head on, and it's very clear that changes need
to be made.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Watch the Space leam Aper thank you for joining me.
I hope you get back to your summer holidays at
some point soon.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Chiers Elliot always great to hear mate.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Watch the Space on New Zealand Herald dot co dot
nz and use talk zb for updates that has been
rugby direct and emergency. Addition, with our friends at Access Solutions.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
For more from news Talk ZEDB. Listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
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