May 6, 2026 • 33 mins
On this week’s episode of Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier delve into the big breaking news: the appointment of Steve Lancaster as NZ Rugby’s new CEO. The boys give their first reaction and unpack what the appointment means for the game.
There’s also a cause for concern for the Hurricanes with Cam Roigard sidelined – is the ‘Cain Train’ starting to derail?
Plus, they open up the mailbag and tackle your questions.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks at B.
Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Straight down the middle of trucks, try.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
To get inside the game from every end goal. It's
Rugby Direct with Elliot Smith and Liam Nabier, powered by
News Talks at B.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Directs. I knew it was a bad
idea to record this before the AGM. Liam, we are
back and the rest of the podcast is not far away.
But first and foremost new CEO for New Zealand Rugby
and it is Steve Lancaster. Your reaction to this. They've
embarked on the global search over the last what twelve
(01:00):
months since Mark Robinson handed in his notice Mike Robinson
left December last year, and on the day of the
AGM they've ann that Steve Lancaster is the new CEO
of New Zealand Rugby.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
It's taken a long time, hasn't it to get to
this point because they knew a good couple of months
out that Mark Robinson was leaving, so probably shouldn't have
taken this long. I'm not surprised because the way in
which the recruitment process played out. You had so many people,
(01:33):
high profile people, from the boss of Kiwibank to the
boss of one en Z and it was.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
The narrow stations. Tom Harrison, that's right, but the.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Narrative was almost all about who didn't want the job,
and I think New Zealand Rugby has not succeeded in
its desire to land a big fish first and foremost.
When you embark on a global search and you end
up promoting someone from within who led the community game
prior to it, it's I don't think it's necessarily a
(02:06):
great look for the desirability of that job. And look,
it's a bloody tough gig that the pay doesn't translate
compared to some of the big corporates out there. You
stick sticking your neck out in public. You're often damned
if you do, damned if you don't. You're also dealing
with a myriad of challenges and mouths to feed and
(02:29):
political infighting at times. So it's an incredibly tough gig
and I think people out there recognize that. I think
Steve Lencas has done a good job since coming on board.
He says some big ticket items including a new all
black coach, So I think that's probably won him the position,
But if you reflect back to the start of this
recruitment process, I think they probably had someone else in mind.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yeah. Look, I think they've went searching for a unicorn
that I'm not sure exactly exists and have landed on
someone that's been working for them for nine years in
their offices and is a very good operator. And I
think I've been impressed by the nature of how he's
front of media over the last five six months, since
he's been in that role in some tough times as
you alluded to there and some tricky situations, But I
(03:14):
didn't get the sense that he was advocating for the
CEO job. Maybe he was in the background but felt
like he was the safe pair of hands in the
interim capacity. Now he's gonna have to leave the organization,
which is different because when you're the interim versus the
full time guy in charge that there are different responsibilities
and different expectations that come with that. But David Kirk
(03:35):
has signed off on this and the end the board,
they clearly believe that that he's the right guy to
do do this job going forward.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yeah, I think the dynamic has shifted a lot in
recent times in terms of how that how New Zell
and Rugby's being run as well. There's no denying, certainly
from the outside looking in, that David Kirk is Captain
Kirk and he appears to be making a lot of
those big decisions and so having a safe pair of hands,
(04:03):
Having an operational CEO who may accept more responsible now
he's in the chair full time probably works in the
way and which responsibility has been delegated, because I think
Kirk is a very strong, opinionated, experienced operator and so
(04:25):
maybe that dynamic works well, maybe that's shifted from what
they were looking for.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
And there has been other appointments.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
As well, with some of those big ticket positions around
finance being filled since Lankster came into the seat.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
He did, and we've already seen a little bit of
a change, you know, they're now open to this ANZAC test,
which is likely to have got signed off at at
bar level over the last twenty four hours or so
and by the time you hear this podcast may well
be out in the public ethers. So there is a
changing view I guess from the Mark Robinson or to
what we've seen with Lancaster, and also Kirk as well,
and to get something like an ANZAC test across the
(05:00):
line which had been barred shut. I guess speaks to
some of those changing priorities you alluded to, and perhaps
a desired work more closely with the Australians. What's your
action to the anz test likely being confirmed.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Yeah, that's a big shift, isn't it Because it was
a no go under Mark Robertson and Scott Robertson. But
a change of regime both at the head of New
Zealand Rugby and with the All Blacks I think has
been pivotal. Dave Renny is in favor of it. He
sees it as allowing him more preparation time in a
World Cup year. Having a test at the start of
(05:37):
the year will keep players on notice and allows him
to get players together and have a real test. And
surprisingly from people that I've spoken to around the super scene,
CEOs and the like, there's actually quite a strong support
for it, certainly in New Zealand's and look Australia have
wanted this for a long time. I'm still on the
(05:59):
fence about it. I have concerns about the message it
sends around super rugby, taking potentially sixty your best players
out for up to two weeks. How that reflects on
the competition, how it devalues it potentially.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
But then there's a flip side.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
There's numbers been banded around of this game making anywhere
between six and and ten million, and that will filter through.
It's going to create attention and talking points earlier in
the year, So there's positive and negative spin offs, and
it's probably likely to be only once every two years
at this stage.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, and look they've gone and done Super Round and
it's a success, and then the next year you go
and change it up immediately. I'm sure there are fans
that would have gone get bands that weekend, next week,
next year will be there. It's entirely different kittle of fish,
if it's on Easter weekend, if it's on a random April, May, June,
whatever weekend that they might choose to pin it. So
(06:52):
I get the desire to have it. And look, there'll
be a lot of talking points in the week leading
up to a week's leading up to the selection. Who's in,
who's out. We've seen that in the NRL with origin
talking points and things like that. In some ways it
sort of overshadows what's going on in the competition. You've
got a drop of a representative fixture coming up. I'm
not sure that it's entirely good for Super Rugby, but
(07:13):
it will create I'm sure a little bit more interest.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Yeah, And the other thing I struggle with is I
don't think you can justify three Blazlow Cups currently or
makes have held that for two decades plus. Where's the jeopardy?
How much interest is there going to be in a
dead rubber potentially staged.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
In New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Maybe that smacks of arrogance, but that's that's how it's
been for the.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Past dead rubbers previously as well, you know those October
games they played before they went up north. I don't
think it's a right answer other than Australia, you know,
putting some pressure on actually winning the Blooter's Low Cup.
That would create some real jeopardy. I saw Christy Dorian
and Sam Bruce responding to a suggestion on X that
the Blitterslow Cup becomes a standalone in Anzac day, so
(07:57):
it's up for grabs then and then you know you
can win it back later in the Not sure about that.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Yeah, it'd certainly create more interest on it. But I think.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
You need to sell something around a series with Australia,
and yeah, you sort of catering to Australia to give
them a greater chance of winning.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
It put the DHL Cup on the line. Then we'll
talk right on with the rest of the podcast here
on Rugby Direct Brown thirteen of Super Rugby Pacific Napes.
We'll get into the mailbag shortly and there is a
few questions that have been asked of us, but a
big week ahead for a lot of these teams in
Super Rugby Pacific. When you look at the matchups we've
(08:38):
got and also the table, this could be quite pivotal
with only four weeks to go in the season, some
big chances for teams to make a move and teams
could well be spat out the back after this weekend.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
Absolutely all.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Let the business end is fast approaching, not quite make
or break, but entering that region fairly quickly. So as
you say, some big matchups that will determine the top
six and seedings from there, we'll get.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Into some tipping as well. Crusader's Blues is on Friday
night seven five. You can hear that on a news
talk ZB Sports and that's new change this week. You
can listen on iHeartRadio find your local frequency on news
Talk ZENB dot co dot in Z slash Sport. But
the Crusaders have gone with a relatively settled lineup, although
they've lost Kimita this week with his Rayhan is at ten.
(09:31):
But you look at the Blues, Anton Signa goes to
the bench this week. They've decided to keep Finlake, Christie
and Bowden Barrett's finishes in this game and start knocking
Peter Feta again. What do you make of those decisions
by Vancotta?
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Intriguing?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Yeah, I think Stephen Peterefetter was impressive and has come
back last week. But I can't imagine if you asked
Boden Barrett that he would be stoked to be on
the bench at super ragby level. Sullivan is playing well
at fullback, so Vern's opted to go with that, and
as you say, bring the experience on to close out
the contests, which I think is more common in the
(10:11):
modern game, isn't it the twenty three man game and
the benches are hugely vital. But what do you think
it says about where Boden's at? And do you think
the Blues will stick with that through the remainder of
the year.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Well, I think we saw Para Feder's running game work
really well last week and it's more on a pacific
albeit they began to fall off tackles and it was
a lot easier for him, especially in the second half,
to really run the ship. I think given the roof
now in christ Jews, they want to see Peter feed
to run the ball a lot knocks more of a
running half back and a threat there if and like
(10:46):
Christie is lauded for his defense, Biden Barrett probably doesn't
run as much as he did ten years ago, So
I can understand it from Vincotta's perspective, but you've also
are they going to significantly be able to change the game?
And I look at a bench and go, arey going
to be able to turn the game? We saw Boden
Barrett do it a couple of times to the All
Blacks and a recent memory, but I'm just not sure
(11:08):
that it works the same at super rugby level, which
has played at a probably a higher pace than test rugby,
you know, natural pace than Test rugby. So yeah, I'm
not entirely on board with it, But I can see
where vin Quad is coming from, and I do think
as well. You look at the Crusaders and what they've
been able to squeak out wins over the Blues at
(11:31):
home in the last couple of years. Think that to
the semi final last year where they won by seven
points and held on late and the Blues batter their
line couldn't get through. Maybe some fresher legs in that
final twenty and some karma and more experienced heads may help.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
Yeah, potentially that might be the thinking.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
As you say period at Fitter has that running game emboden.
I think in the latter stages of his career has
become more of a kick first ten than a running one.
He does take those opportunities when it's on, but these
days it is more about creating for others, and he
does have an array of tactical kicks that he likes
(12:08):
to you, So maybe that's in the thinking there. It
is also intriguing. I know we're going to get to
the Crusaders later, but just the changing context of this
new stadium. Both teams have had one outing there and
you refer to those recent Crusaders Blues results, Well, it's
a different prospect now going to christ Church knowing the
(12:30):
conditions that you're going to be able to plan. The
Blues aren't the most expansive team in Super rugby, but
it's complete contrast from going down in winter, the howling
rain or cold or all those sort of conditions that
you knew you were going to expect. So I think
from a spectacle, from a tactical perspective, it is a
(12:51):
very different prospect.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, absolutely, we'll get into that, and we won't at
a moment or two. On the podcast, reads Chiefs, we'll
come back and do the toping in a moment, reads Chiefs.
Chiefs very inexperienced back three current time way for all
our returns this week after missing Super Round, Limcoom's face
is on the other wing, and so Isaac Hutchison, who
impressed against the Dror is there. But the Chiefs should
(13:15):
be relatively too good. I would have thought for the Reds,
although it's a really tricky game going over to Brisbane
and that experienced back three no Leroy Carter until the
quarter finals it was out. Nana Saturo could come back
and bite them a little bit, you know, as the
season goes on.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Yeah, the Reds I think are potentially starting to find
some form. I think they've had some success against the
Chiefs in recent years, so I think that game will
be tight. And as you say, the back three some
big names missing. Chiefs should have enough, but I'd have
a few nerves.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Cat Tangy tails back for the Homeland is incidentally against
the Warrantors and then the Hurricanes awaited Mona Pacifica on
Saturday night. No cameroy guards for three to four weeks.
Is that the sound I hear in the distance of
the train coming off the rails here with the Cave train.
Liam Rubin loves out for the week as well, though
I don't think he would have played anyway, But jeez,
(14:10):
can Royga matte this? This could be season over for
the Hurricanes.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Look, it's a concern if there's one player that's the Hurricanes,
the All Blacks ands own Rugby doesn't want to lose.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Ever, it's Cam Rugert.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
He's, in my mind's alongside Artist Severe, is the most
influential player in the game currently, So massive blow no
matter who's deputizing him is going to be a step down.
Let alone that the depth that or lack of the
Hurricanes have there, but he will be back for the playoffs,
Elliot and the Hurricanes will be in the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
So seeing the numbers here, actually whether you know, if
you lose all four of these games, whether you might
be at a bit of strife.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
The train chugs on. Well, yeah, a look, Matt mass changes.
The Hurricanes are blown away Moe in recent years. They
do have good depth. I think they should still have enough,
but anytime you make mass changes there tends to be
a lot of disruption.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Good opportunity for a few of these players. But yeah,
I'm unconvinced about Eddie and Ardi. I think they're drop
of his major for the Hurricanes. And having to play
him against the Blues and the Hurricane, so the Highlanders
and the Crusaders over the back three weeks I think
is relatively you know, tricky for the Hurricanes.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Yeah, I don't mind vull Yuan off the bench. He's
got a I'm not going to say similar running game,
but he's got a bit of snipe about him and
a bit of pace. But I'm not a huge Anadi fan.
I think he's meant to be a good defensive kicking
half back, but huge drop off from Royan.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Where you just go about a couple of weeks when
they lost to the Chiefs and the questions around something
regard and added eggs time from towards clack Laidlaw. There
is a major drop off there, right, let's get into
some tipping Crusader's blues Friday night.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
It's tough, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
You know what, Elliott, I am going to go the
Crusaders on this one.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Can gets one entry in your back of listeners, can
see what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
We will get to it a bit later. But they're
in must win, almost desperation stage now and.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I probably fifth of the ladder.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Please mate, they could go back at a great rate
of knots here and I saw enough heart from them last.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Week going back home. The horses are back.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yes, just need the logo back now?
Speaker 4 (16:24):
Just on that? Was it a complete PR stunt the
whole time?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
I think it might have been. Yeah, if they genuinely
couldn't get them in there for the first week, why
wouldn't they come out and say, look, we genuinely don't
have the time to test this week one. We're looking
to bring it back for the second game when we've
got a bit more time. It did feel like a
little bit of a pr stunt. But geez, great, sit
them back, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I heard a whisper that the Blues actually investigated bringing
the horses to graze at Eden Park.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Tried to steal soup around trying to steal the horses.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Is it? Come on, A bit of imagination would be good.
It's not coping well with the you know, the National
Stadium no longer being theirs.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
That would have been a great job the Blues.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
You know, there's no wonder they have won much for
the last twenty years when they're just trying to copy,
you know, the most successful franchise and sleep Break.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
Worry about getting those playoffs.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Man, well, great to have you tipping them. I'm going
to tip them as well. Reds Chiefs in Brisbane. Interesting
to see where you go here.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
I'm going to the Chiefs.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, I'm so far behind and there's some seven points
back now that I'm going to go the Reds for
an upset.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
It's not out of the question.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Certainly doesn't. Highlanders war retars four to thirty five. Big
game for both of these teams. Wartars five points out
of the playoffs in eighth behind is similarly with the
worst points differential, loser is definitely out, the winner is
probably well still in the race. But you know, it's
must have been territory for both of these games. Both
these teams.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Excuse me, it is two quite middling teams this year,
aren't they both coming off defeats, both struggling.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
I don't flip of the coin. I'm going to go
the Landers at home.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yes, so am I. I don't say that with a
lot of confidence, but I'm going to go with them.
More one to Pacifico against the Hurricanes Mowan a relatively
settled side Hurricanes with a lot of changes, as we mentioned,
is this time for Mowana to rise up and put
a dent in the Canes top number, top one, top
spot hopes.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Excuse me, look, it does have a banana skin feel
about it, particularly with those mass changes, Lucas Cashmore coming
into ten, a number of others missing for the Canes.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
But no, yeah, Unfortunately, can't make the argument for it
either as much as they would like to. Brumby's Force
nine to thirty five critical game again for both of
these teams, and the Force are in tenth, but they've
found some real FORMU the last few weeks, but again
they need to win this to keep their PLAYFF hopes alive.
The Brumbies in six and are on the real slide.
This is in Canberra though.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
You know, Elliott, the Force has been goods men in
recent weeks. The tip them to beat the Crusaders, tip
them to beat the Waratahs, and I'm going to stick
with them to beat the Brumbies. I think you're right.
They have found a bit of form but of confidence
and the Brumby has been tanking. It's always tough in Canberra,
but you know what, my force might get the job done.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Your force. It is Star Wars Week or Star Wars
dare a few days ago, May the fourth be with
you made the seventh, howur as we record this, it's
made the ninth in the games play. But you know what,
I'm gonna have the Brumpties. Those are our steps. As
I said, you have a seven point lead now forty
out of fifty three games. I've got thirty three out
of fifty three. So bit a catching up to do.
Let's get into the Rugby Direct mail bag and there
(19:25):
is plenty to get stuck into. This is from Thomas
who are emailed in Hey Liam, love the podcast as
an exercise, go through the remaining round robin games and
make your selections and forecasts from those outcomes who make
the top six. Crusaders have a points buffer at the moment,
but they have a very tough run home. I believe
there's a fair chance they missed the top six. Would
love your thoughts on the body.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
So what's their run home?
Speaker 3 (19:48):
It's the Blues, then a Buye and the Hurricanes.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
And they've also got the Chiefs as well.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Okay, so I say they win one of those three
and that's probably enough to make the top six. And
I still believe they'll be a real threat come playoffs
because they'll get Scott Barrett's brannan Or and a couple
of others back in that mix. But it's very tough
(20:15):
to do away from home.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
I think.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
The Hurricanes have don't fear the Crusaders anymore. I think
the Chiefs will relish playing them as well, so it's
an incredibly tough run home. Incidentally, one of my good friends,
massive Crusaders fan from christ Church, puts a bit at
super Round on the Crusaders maybe the week after actually
(20:39):
eight dollars to win the competition start man, and I
said to him, you're going to need to cash out
there to make a profit. I can't see a world
in which the Crusaders win the Compass year having to
go away from home. But I do think they will
sneak into playoffs with just first of all, address the
(20:59):
run home. How many how many games do they win
in the.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Regular I've took them to beat the Blues this week,
then they've got the Buy, then they've got the Canes
and the Chiefs to finish. They don't leave home for
the next three while again we've talked about the home
advantage and whether it plays as much, but sleeping your
own beds, all that sort of advantage. I have them
winning two of those three. I think they'll probably I'm
gonna say they beat the Chiefs again, which they did
earlier in the season, but lose to the Hurricanes. But
(21:22):
I do agree that one win's probably enough to get through.
You look at some of these teams, Waratahs and Highlanders
will cancel each other out this week, and I think
they've got a not going to string together enough points.
The Brumbies got question marks over the drawer. You know,
coming home with a little bit of a wit sale,
but I just wonder whether they've lift they run too late.
The Crusader's on twenty seven and the next team being
(21:44):
outside the playoffs on twenty I just don't think there's
enough runway for the Crusaders to slip out entirely. I
get the point from Thomas, yeah, but I just don't
think there's enough And it is a really tough run home,
but I just don't think there's enough runway for them
to slip out of the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Can they win the comp from here?
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Yep, I think they can, which you know the Hurricanes.
I say that's the Hurricanes plays in the week one.
We saw from them last week that they can push
the Hurricanes. They had a game plan that look, the
Hurricanes were trying to probably a bit better than the
Crusaders on the night, but I thought they had a
game plan that well, it didn't win. There are signs
there that maybe if things clicked, all bounceable games their way.
James Dorman calls a forward pass before halftime and also
(22:24):
after halftime. I'm not saying the winner, but I think
I can see a path with potentially they could win it.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Yeah, I think they get in the playoffs. I think
three playoff games away from home is too much of
an ask and I haven't seen enough from them this year.
I think they've been pretty underwhelming on the whole. A
lot of heart last week. They've missed a few players
Will Jordan in particular, But I haven't seen enough.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Fin I haven't seen enough from it a lot of
teams this season.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
I think the Chiefs, the Chiefs and the Hurricanes. Crusader's
beat the Chiefs by twenty points.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
It was a one off, as it was a long
time ago, and that's a bit of an aberration for
what I've seen from that from the Crusaders this year.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
What I mean is that I don't think there are capable. Yeah,
I don't think outside of the Hurricanes, I don't think
they're There's the Corty that we've seen in previous seasons
that would suggest that you can draw a line through them.
I think there are enough is enough to suggest there
is upsets out there and when we get to the
playoffs versus previous seasons where.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
You go, youet home home team will win this Yeah
on their day. Look, there's not much between the top
four New Zealand teams.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Tim Jamison, This has been in the mailbay for a
couple of weeks. Now I finally got to it. Elliott, Hey,
Elliott question that may or may not be interested. I
had troubled digging up the stats. How many games did
Dan Carter have at ten for the Crusaders before getting
the AB's gig Thinking about it in the context of
Reuben Love, You've got to try it at some point.
There's that about replacing card after and Boccada wasn't a
world class Dan Carter in two thousand and five or
(23:49):
four thousand and five. He was a really promising our
player at twelve mites that the Sades and Spencer at
the AB's ahead of them. Just thought it might be
interesting how that might stack up in turns experience at ten,
So I did run the numbers. Dan Carter had ten
stars for either the Crusaders or Canterbury before he started
an All Blacks test at ten. Ten starts now he
played a lot of twelve for the Crusaders and Canterbury.
(24:10):
Played twelve for the All Blacks obviously for a season
and a half before he switched into ten for the
game against Italy in two thousand and four, but that
is ten games at first class level that he's played.
The Ruben Love has had twenty five games at ten
for the Hurricanes or Wellingtonington and he's now twenty five.
(24:30):
Compared to a Dan Carter was what twenty two? I
think when he hear.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Nineteen starts for the Hurricanes at ten Rubin Love, Look,
Dan Carter is such a special player. He always had
time on the ball from such a young age, didn't
he whether it was ten, twelve, that time on the
ball commodity. He just always had it, and so it's
(24:53):
an interesting comparison to make. I think it's probably unfair
to compare anyone to Carter. Realistically, Ruben has touches of
class about him. I think his game still developing, particularly
from a management point of view.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
I think his.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Development has been stunted by the All Blacks by not
giving him enough time, whether that be at ten or fifteen,
and that hasn't helped me the bouncing between the two positions.
It's only really this year that he's come out public
man and said I want to be a ten.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
And if Britt Cameron wasn't injured, who knows whether he
would be playing ten. Maybe Callum Harkin is on the
bench of the Hurricanes and Ruben Love's back at fifteen,
So there's been a circumstance there that is dictated. I
do think over the last twenty years or so, we've
become very conservative in terms of our all black selections.
There's been basically tenured players in there. You look back
(25:46):
to I was watching on YouTube the other day. I
don't know how I came across it, but it was
the probablest Possibles game from two thousand and four at
Eden Park, start of Graham Henry's tenure, and you look
at some of the players there, and yes, it was
a start of a tenure, but there was a real
picking on form sort of scenario there. Yes, said obviously
some incumbents and players that have been around them, with
some injuries as well. For a call Rightley Carter was
(26:07):
actually injured for that game and didn't play, but that
Merton's coming off the bench. They had all sorts of
different players that had played well in that Super Rugby
season and got their opportunities. Now, I think we look
at it as a four year cycle probably more, and
you know, building plays through. But I just think we're
a little bit more risk averse. Whereas twenty years ago
they would have checked to Rubin Love in at ten.
(26:30):
After a couple of years now we just don't seem
to do that well.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
The Welsh Test last year was a prime example that
Ruben Love should have started at ten. How much do
you gain by playing Damien McKenzie at ten in that game?
You could play them at fifteen and that transpires for
the greatest rivalry tour in South Africa. Let's just say
that rich and Monga initially doesn't go on that tour
because at this stage is not eligible as to play
(26:55):
for Canterbury. Wouldn't be shocked at all. Offends up over
there at some point. But you're looking at Ruben Love,
Damien McKenzie and Boden Barut. Now, in my mind Ruben
Love should be a bolted on, guaranteed starter for those
four games. I'm wrong against the South African Super rugby
teams again, you're not going to get anything out of
(27:18):
starting McKenzie at ten or Bowden at ten.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
You know what they can do?
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Well? Was that too far down the track though? I mean,
should he be starting at ten against.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
Front which a couple of months.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
I no, no, I know, but like almost starting him
in those two games, is he capable of starting at
ten against Fronts in the first Test of the year.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Probably yes. I think we need to see a wee
bit more from him. The only Crunch game. Well, not
only we've seen him against the Crusaders, but I think
back to the Chiefs and Hamilton and even then there
was elements of his game. I'm like, I would like
to said do that or I'm sure he'll take, you know,
learn from that experience. But yeah, there's an argument that's
(27:58):
throwmer Now, why not Boden Barretts what thirty six? Damien
Mckinziy's had many cracks, nailed some of them not others,
So there is an argument. But for me, it's just
going to South Africa. Those games over there, You're not
going to get that experience of playing in front of
(28:19):
pack stadiums, experiencing Africa in South Africa, and then if
he nails those opportunities, then it really does light up
that conversation about where he sits in the picking order.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Find a question for the mail Bag this week. Aaron
from Audiawa sees love the pod guys lot's been talked
about with players leaving for overseas. Is there anything INSIDAR
can do about this or is it as simple as
they can't pay off? Also, would you still pick a
player like Fiji being the form player but knowing he
is leaving? Of course, Stephen Flanders joining that list this
week you reporter on the podcast a couple of weeks back,
(28:51):
that was likely confirmed on Monday. First part of the
question then, is there anything insid I can do about this? Well,
not really. Unfortunately, they just don't have the financials to
offer what Newcastle rebul can offer, what a French team
can offer, what a Japanese team can offer. What they
can offer is the All Blacks Jersey. Now there seems
to be a conversation point that comes up every week
(29:14):
or two. Is the All Blacks Juwsey losing its aura? Well,
yes and no, it still has an aura. But also
team professional rugby is only really and it's infancy thirty
one years old. The game is evolving and changing around
what players expect to get out of it, so there
is a fine balance there. But ultimately they just don't
have the coffers to pay some of these players enough.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Yeah, it does seem like it's worse this year than
maybe this time in the previous cycle. I read a
report from Paul Cully about Joanah Lowe and Tannye La
Talia probably leaving the Highlanders. Then you've got Devin Flanders,
massive blow really for the Hurricanes, and you know, just
(29:57):
a shame for a guy that's been on the cusp,
is in career best form to be leaving at that stage,
And is that middle tier that's vulnerable, say the twenty
five six seven year olds who have accumulated that experience,
who are incredibly valuable to their super rugby teams, who
can sometimes double triple their earnings abroad, very very hard
(30:17):
to retain those players. I think the one thing that
you could explore, and it would evolve changing the parameters
around salary caps and maybe even how the.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Players are paid.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
But if wealthy backers of these teams, Sam Malcolm Gillies
wants to go out and pay Fenn young enough for
another hundred two hundred k whatever it is to stay
and play for the Hurricanes, why stop them? Yeah, if
that allows you to retain these players, there must be
a mechanism that you can we.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Get have a market player or something like that, but
play outside the salary cap or outside the cap that
you know you can play pay third party arrangements or
whatever it might be.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
That might not be fair because not all teams can
reach that threshold. But if it means a Fagi or
a Devin Flanders or a branden enor stays for the Crusaders,
then that's a good thing, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
It is second part of the question. Would you still
pick a player like Fairhi being the form player but
knowing he's leaving? It's an interesting question given the South
African tour this year, like do you classify that as
the next biggest thing behind a World Cup? Now? Would
you pick a form player for a World Cup knowing
they're leaving next year? Tricky question? You think that's twenty fifteen.
(31:31):
Charles Patow missed out on the Rugby World Cup because
he was going after that season for he is uncapped obviously.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Same situation Mark Talia last year. Yes, he signed to
go to Japan and wasn't selecting the All Blacks. Beyond that,
Fortunately Sevary's got a few more caps. Yes, thankfully Caleb
tongueytail will finally surpass him.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
No, I wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
I don't think there's anything to gain by investing in
someone's development when they are about to leave, unless they
are committed to coming back. And you get much more
out of bringing in a Caleb tongueytowl. As unfortunate and
disappointing as it is that we're losing. Fore, he'll be
back one day, but I personally wouldn't pick him, And
(32:13):
the way the eligibility is set up, you can't beyond
once he's left anyway.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yeah, I think it's too tricky. Look, I do play,
you know, obviously significant importance on this tour coming up,
and you should have your best players available to play.
But when you've also got to work up the following year,
it's a really tricky one. You need you to have
your best players playing rugby combinations, all that sort of thing.
You know, someone like a nihim La Scudder go back
to twenty fifteen, came in straight in that year, bang,
(32:40):
you know, and he's in a World Cup final. There
is still room for a player like that. But I
just don't know that you'd go with someone like Fiji
this year. I think you've got more to lose potentially
by you know, by putting him in the team and
then blocking a department development of cab taking Tawe or
someone like that, versus what the benefits you get out
of him.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
So yeah, it might be a different conversation if the
All Blacks were allowed to select two three players from offshore.
But even then there's probably caveats around how many caps
or how many years they had to play, which he
probably wouldn't satisfy.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
No, and look there's a genuine argue and he probably
should have been looked at last year for the All Blacks.
He was in very good form for the Hurricanes, you know,
Kennenahlo was as well.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
And yet here we are absolutely probably should have been
on that All Blacks fifteen tour.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Yeah, that'll do us. For Rugby Direct. You can of
course get in touch with the mail bag. We dig
through it every Thursday or thereabouts Rugby Direct at news
Talk ZEDB dot co dot in z. Will be back
early part of next week to review round fifteen of
Super Rapy Specific thanks to Mark Kelly producing that has
been Rapy Directs powered by insid Safety Blacklet's Everything, Trade's
(33:45):
need Sort.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
For more from News Talk ZEDB, listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks at B.
Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Straight down the middle of trucks, try.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
To get inside the game from every end goal. It's
Rugby Direct with Elliot Smith and Liam Nabier, powered by
News Talks at B.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Directs. I knew it was a bad
idea to record this before the AGM. Liam, we are
back and the rest of the podcast is not far away.
But first and foremost new CEO for New Zealand Rugby
and it is Steve Lancaster. Your reaction to this. They've
embarked on the global search over the last what twelve
(01:00):
months since Mark Robinson handed in his notice Mike Robinson
left December last year, and on the day of the
AGM they've ann that Steve Lancaster is the new CEO
of New Zealand Rugby.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
It's taken a long time, hasn't it to get to
this point because they knew a good couple of months
out that Mark Robinson was leaving, so probably shouldn't have
taken this long. I'm not surprised because the way in
which the recruitment process played out. You had so many people,
(01:33):
high profile people, from the boss of Kiwibank to the
boss of one en Z and it was.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
The narrow stations. Tom Harrison, that's right, but the.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Narrative was almost all about who didn't want the job,
and I think New Zealand Rugby has not succeeded in
its desire to land a big fish first and foremost.
When you embark on a global search and you end
up promoting someone from within who led the community game
prior to it, it's I don't think it's necessarily a
(02:06):
great look for the desirability of that job. And look,
it's a bloody tough gig that the pay doesn't translate
compared to some of the big corporates out there. You
stick sticking your neck out in public. You're often damned
if you do, damned if you don't. You're also dealing
with a myriad of challenges and mouths to feed and
(02:29):
political infighting at times. So it's an incredibly tough gig
and I think people out there recognize that. I think
Steve Lencas has done a good job since coming on board.
He says some big ticket items including a new all
black coach, So I think that's probably won him the position,
But if you reflect back to the start of this
recruitment process, I think they probably had someone else in mind.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yeah. Look, I think they've went searching for a unicorn
that I'm not sure exactly exists and have landed on
someone that's been working for them for nine years in
their offices and is a very good operator. And I
think I've been impressed by the nature of how he's
front of media over the last five six months, since
he's been in that role in some tough times as
you alluded to there and some tricky situations, But I
(03:14):
didn't get the sense that he was advocating for the
CEO job. Maybe he was in the background but felt
like he was the safe pair of hands in the
interim capacity. Now he's gonna have to leave the organization,
which is different because when you're the interim versus the
full time guy in charge that there are different responsibilities
and different expectations that come with that. But David Kirk
(03:35):
has signed off on this and the end the board,
they clearly believe that that he's the right guy to
do do this job going forward.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yeah, I think the dynamic has shifted a lot in
recent times in terms of how that how New Zell
and Rugby's being run as well. There's no denying, certainly
from the outside looking in, that David Kirk is Captain
Kirk and he appears to be making a lot of
those big decisions and so having a safe pair of hands,
(04:03):
Having an operational CEO who may accept more responsible now
he's in the chair full time probably works in the
way and which responsibility has been delegated, because I think
Kirk is a very strong, opinionated, experienced operator and so
(04:25):
maybe that dynamic works well, maybe that's shifted from what
they were looking for.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
And there has been other appointments.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
As well, with some of those big ticket positions around
finance being filled since Lankster came into the seat.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
He did, and we've already seen a little bit of
a change, you know, they're now open to this ANZAC test,
which is likely to have got signed off at at
bar level over the last twenty four hours or so
and by the time you hear this podcast may well
be out in the public ethers. So there is a
changing view I guess from the Mark Robinson or to
what we've seen with Lancaster, and also Kirk as well,
and to get something like an ANZAC test across the
(05:00):
line which had been barred shut. I guess speaks to
some of those changing priorities you alluded to, and perhaps
a desired work more closely with the Australians. What's your
action to the anz test likely being confirmed.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Yeah, that's a big shift, isn't it Because it was
a no go under Mark Robertson and Scott Robertson. But
a change of regime both at the head of New
Zealand Rugby and with the All Blacks I think has
been pivotal. Dave Renny is in favor of it. He
sees it as allowing him more preparation time in a
World Cup year. Having a test at the start of
(05:37):
the year will keep players on notice and allows him
to get players together and have a real test. And
surprisingly from people that I've spoken to around the super scene,
CEOs and the like, there's actually quite a strong support
for it, certainly in New Zealand's and look Australia have
wanted this for a long time. I'm still on the
(05:59):
fence about it. I have concerns about the message it
sends around super rugby, taking potentially sixty your best players
out for up to two weeks. How that reflects on
the competition, how it devalues it potentially.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
But then there's a flip side.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
There's numbers been banded around of this game making anywhere
between six and and ten million, and that will filter through.
It's going to create attention and talking points earlier in
the year, So there's positive and negative spin offs, and
it's probably likely to be only once every two years
at this stage.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, and look they've gone and done Super Round and
it's a success, and then the next year you go
and change it up immediately. I'm sure there are fans
that would have gone get bands that weekend, next week,
next year will be there. It's entirely different kittle of fish,
if it's on Easter weekend, if it's on a random April, May, June,
whatever weekend that they might choose to pin it. So
(06:52):
I get the desire to have it. And look, there'll
be a lot of talking points in the week leading
up to a week's leading up to the selection. Who's in,
who's out. We've seen that in the NRL with origin
talking points and things like that. In some ways it
sort of overshadows what's going on in the competition. You've
got a drop of a representative fixture coming up. I'm
not sure that it's entirely good for Super Rugby, but
(07:13):
it will create I'm sure a little bit more interest.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Yeah, And the other thing I struggle with is I
don't think you can justify three Blazlow Cups currently or
makes have held that for two decades plus. Where's the jeopardy?
How much interest is there going to be in a
dead rubber potentially staged.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
In New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Maybe that smacks of arrogance, but that's that's how it's
been for the.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Past dead rubbers previously as well, you know those October
games they played before they went up north. I don't
think it's a right answer other than Australia, you know,
putting some pressure on actually winning the Blooter's Low Cup.
That would create some real jeopardy. I saw Christy Dorian
and Sam Bruce responding to a suggestion on X that
the Blitterslow Cup becomes a standalone in Anzac day, so
(07:57):
it's up for grabs then and then you know you
can win it back later in the Not sure about that.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Yeah, it'd certainly create more interest on it. But I think.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
You need to sell something around a series with Australia,
and yeah, you sort of catering to Australia to give
them a greater chance of winning.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
It put the DHL Cup on the line. Then we'll
talk right on with the rest of the podcast here
on Rugby Direct Brown thirteen of Super Rugby Pacific Napes.
We'll get into the mailbag shortly and there is a
few questions that have been asked of us, but a
big week ahead for a lot of these teams in
Super Rugby Pacific. When you look at the matchups we've
(08:38):
got and also the table, this could be quite pivotal
with only four weeks to go in the season, some
big chances for teams to make a move and teams
could well be spat out the back after this weekend.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
Absolutely all.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Let the business end is fast approaching, not quite make
or break, but entering that region fairly quickly. So as
you say, some big matchups that will determine the top
six and seedings from there, we'll get.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Into some tipping as well. Crusader's Blues is on Friday
night seven five. You can hear that on a news
talk ZB Sports and that's new change this week. You
can listen on iHeartRadio find your local frequency on news
Talk ZENB dot co dot in Z slash Sport. But
the Crusaders have gone with a relatively settled lineup, although
they've lost Kimita this week with his Rayhan is at ten.
(09:31):
But you look at the Blues, Anton Signa goes to
the bench this week. They've decided to keep Finlake, Christie
and Bowden Barrett's finishes in this game and start knocking
Peter Feta again. What do you make of those decisions
by Vancotta?
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Intriguing?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Yeah, I think Stephen Peterefetter was impressive and has come
back last week. But I can't imagine if you asked
Boden Barrett that he would be stoked to be on
the bench at super ragby level. Sullivan is playing well
at fullback, so Vern's opted to go with that, and
as you say, bring the experience on to close out
the contests, which I think is more common in the
(10:11):
modern game, isn't it the twenty three man game and
the benches are hugely vital. But what do you think
it says about where Boden's at? And do you think
the Blues will stick with that through the remainder of
the year.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Well, I think we saw Para Feder's running game work
really well last week and it's more on a pacific
albeit they began to fall off tackles and it was
a lot easier for him, especially in the second half,
to really run the ship. I think given the roof
now in christ Jews, they want to see Peter feed
to run the ball a lot knocks more of a
running half back and a threat there if and like
(10:46):
Christie is lauded for his defense, Biden Barrett probably doesn't
run as much as he did ten years ago, So
I can understand it from Vincotta's perspective, but you've also
are they going to significantly be able to change the game?
And I look at a bench and go, arey going
to be able to turn the game? We saw Boden
Barrett do it a couple of times to the All
Blacks and a recent memory, but I'm just not sure
(11:08):
that it works the same at super rugby level, which
has played at a probably a higher pace than test rugby,
you know, natural pace than Test rugby. So yeah, I'm
not entirely on board with it, But I can see
where vin Quad is coming from, and I do think
as well. You look at the Crusaders and what they've
been able to squeak out wins over the Blues at
(11:31):
home in the last couple of years. Think that to
the semi final last year where they won by seven
points and held on late and the Blues batter their
line couldn't get through. Maybe some fresher legs in that
final twenty and some karma and more experienced heads may help.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
Yeah, potentially that might be the thinking.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
As you say period at Fitter has that running game emboden.
I think in the latter stages of his career has
become more of a kick first ten than a running one.
He does take those opportunities when it's on, but these
days it is more about creating for others, and he
does have an array of tactical kicks that he likes
(12:08):
to you, So maybe that's in the thinking there. It
is also intriguing. I know we're going to get to
the Crusaders later, but just the changing context of this
new stadium. Both teams have had one outing there and
you refer to those recent Crusaders Blues results, Well, it's
a different prospect now going to christ Church knowing the
(12:30):
conditions that you're going to be able to plan. The
Blues aren't the most expansive team in Super rugby, but
it's complete contrast from going down in winter, the howling
rain or cold or all those sort of conditions that
you knew you were going to expect. So I think
from a spectacle, from a tactical perspective, it is a
(12:51):
very different prospect.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, absolutely, we'll get into that, and we won't at
a moment or two. On the podcast, reads Chiefs, we'll
come back and do the toping in a moment, reads Chiefs.
Chiefs very inexperienced back three current time way for all
our returns this week after missing Super Round, Limcoom's face
is on the other wing, and so Isaac Hutchison, who
impressed against the Dror is there. But the Chiefs should
(13:15):
be relatively too good. I would have thought for the Reds,
although it's a really tricky game going over to Brisbane
and that experienced back three no Leroy Carter until the
quarter finals it was out. Nana Saturo could come back
and bite them a little bit, you know, as the
season goes on.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Yeah, the Reds I think are potentially starting to find
some form. I think they've had some success against the
Chiefs in recent years, so I think that game will
be tight. And as you say, the back three some
big names missing. Chiefs should have enough, but I'd have
a few nerves.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Cat Tangy tails back for the Homeland is incidentally against
the Warrantors and then the Hurricanes awaited Mona Pacifica on
Saturday night. No cameroy guards for three to four weeks.
Is that the sound I hear in the distance of
the train coming off the rails here with the Cave train.
Liam Rubin loves out for the week as well, though
I don't think he would have played anyway, But jeez,
(14:10):
can Royga matte this? This could be season over for
the Hurricanes.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Look, it's a concern if there's one player that's the Hurricanes,
the All Blacks ands own Rugby doesn't want to lose.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Ever, it's Cam Rugert.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
He's, in my mind's alongside Artist Severe, is the most
influential player in the game currently, So massive blow no
matter who's deputizing him is going to be a step down.
Let alone that the depth that or lack of the
Hurricanes have there, but he will be back for the playoffs,
Elliot and the Hurricanes will be in the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
So seeing the numbers here, actually whether you know, if
you lose all four of these games, whether you might
be at a bit of strife.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
The train chugs on. Well, yeah, a look, Matt mass changes.
The Hurricanes are blown away Moe in recent years. They
do have good depth. I think they should still have enough,
but anytime you make mass changes there tends to be
a lot of disruption.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Good opportunity for a few of these players. But yeah,
I'm unconvinced about Eddie and Ardi. I think they're drop
of his major for the Hurricanes. And having to play
him against the Blues and the Hurricane, so the Highlanders
and the Crusaders over the back three weeks I think
is relatively you know, tricky for the Hurricanes.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Yeah, I don't mind vull Yuan off the bench. He's
got a I'm not going to say similar running game,
but he's got a bit of snipe about him and
a bit of pace. But I'm not a huge Anadi fan.
I think he's meant to be a good defensive kicking
half back, but huge drop off from Royan.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Where you just go about a couple of weeks when
they lost to the Chiefs and the questions around something
regard and added eggs time from towards clack Laidlaw. There
is a major drop off there, right, let's get into
some tipping Crusader's blues Friday night.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
It's tough, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
You know what, Elliott, I am going to go the
Crusaders on this one.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Can gets one entry in your back of listeners, can
see what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
We will get to it a bit later. But they're
in must win, almost desperation stage now and.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I probably fifth of the ladder.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Please mate, they could go back at a great rate
of knots here and I saw enough heart from them last.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Week going back home. The horses are back.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yes, just need the logo back now?
Speaker 4 (16:24):
Just on that? Was it a complete PR stunt the
whole time?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
I think it might have been. Yeah, if they genuinely
couldn't get them in there for the first week, why
wouldn't they come out and say, look, we genuinely don't
have the time to test this week one. We're looking
to bring it back for the second game when we've
got a bit more time. It did feel like a
little bit of a pr stunt. But geez, great, sit
them back, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I heard a whisper that the Blues actually investigated bringing
the horses to graze at Eden Park.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Tried to steal soup around trying to steal the horses.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Is it? Come on, A bit of imagination would be good.
It's not coping well with the you know, the National
Stadium no longer being theirs.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
That would have been a great job the Blues.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
You know, there's no wonder they have won much for
the last twenty years when they're just trying to copy,
you know, the most successful franchise and sleep Break.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
Worry about getting those playoffs.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Man, well, great to have you tipping them. I'm going
to tip them as well. Reds Chiefs in Brisbane. Interesting
to see where you go here.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
I'm going to the Chiefs.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, I'm so far behind and there's some seven points
back now that I'm going to go the Reds for
an upset.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
It's not out of the question.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Certainly doesn't. Highlanders war retars four to thirty five. Big
game for both of these teams. Wartars five points out
of the playoffs in eighth behind is similarly with the
worst points differential, loser is definitely out, the winner is
probably well still in the race. But you know, it's
must have been territory for both of these games. Both
these teams.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Excuse me, it is two quite middling teams this year,
aren't they both coming off defeats, both struggling.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
I don't flip of the coin. I'm going to go
the Landers at home.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yes, so am I. I don't say that with a
lot of confidence, but I'm going to go with them.
More one to Pacifico against the Hurricanes Mowan a relatively
settled side Hurricanes with a lot of changes, as we mentioned,
is this time for Mowana to rise up and put
a dent in the Canes top number, top one, top
spot hopes.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Excuse me, look, it does have a banana skin feel
about it, particularly with those mass changes, Lucas Cashmore coming
into ten, a number of others missing for the Canes.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
But no, yeah, Unfortunately, can't make the argument for it
either as much as they would like to. Brumby's Force
nine to thirty five critical game again for both of
these teams, and the Force are in tenth, but they've
found some real FORMU the last few weeks, but again
they need to win this to keep their PLAYFF hopes alive.
The Brumbies in six and are on the real slide.
This is in Canberra though.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
You know, Elliott, the Force has been goods men in
recent weeks. The tip them to beat the Crusaders, tip
them to beat the Waratahs, and I'm going to stick
with them to beat the Brumbies. I think you're right.
They have found a bit of form but of confidence
and the Brumby has been tanking. It's always tough in Canberra,
but you know what, my force might get the job done.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Your force. It is Star Wars Week or Star Wars
dare a few days ago, May the fourth be with
you made the seventh, howur as we record this, it's
made the ninth in the games play. But you know what,
I'm gonna have the Brumpties. Those are our steps. As
I said, you have a seven point lead now forty
out of fifty three games. I've got thirty three out
of fifty three. So bit a catching up to do.
Let's get into the Rugby Direct mail bag and there
(19:25):
is plenty to get stuck into. This is from Thomas
who are emailed in Hey Liam, love the podcast as
an exercise, go through the remaining round robin games and
make your selections and forecasts from those outcomes who make
the top six. Crusaders have a points buffer at the moment,
but they have a very tough run home. I believe
there's a fair chance they missed the top six. Would
love your thoughts on the body.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
So what's their run home?
Speaker 3 (19:48):
It's the Blues, then a Buye and the Hurricanes.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
And they've also got the Chiefs as well.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Okay, so I say they win one of those three
and that's probably enough to make the top six. And
I still believe they'll be a real threat come playoffs
because they'll get Scott Barrett's brannan Or and a couple
of others back in that mix. But it's very tough
(20:15):
to do away from home.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
I think.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
The Hurricanes have don't fear the Crusaders anymore. I think
the Chiefs will relish playing them as well, so it's
an incredibly tough run home. Incidentally, one of my good friends,
massive Crusaders fan from christ Church, puts a bit at
super Round on the Crusaders maybe the week after actually
(20:39):
eight dollars to win the competition start man, and I
said to him, you're going to need to cash out
there to make a profit. I can't see a world
in which the Crusaders win the Compass year having to
go away from home. But I do think they will
sneak into playoffs with just first of all, address the
(20:59):
run home. How many how many games do they win
in the.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Regular I've took them to beat the Blues this week,
then they've got the Buy, then they've got the Canes
and the Chiefs to finish. They don't leave home for
the next three while again we've talked about the home
advantage and whether it plays as much, but sleeping your
own beds, all that sort of advantage. I have them
winning two of those three. I think they'll probably I'm
gonna say they beat the Chiefs again, which they did
earlier in the season, but lose to the Hurricanes. But
(21:22):
I do agree that one win's probably enough to get through.
You look at some of these teams, Waratahs and Highlanders
will cancel each other out this week, and I think
they've got a not going to string together enough points.
The Brumbies got question marks over the drawer. You know,
coming home with a little bit of a wit sale,
but I just wonder whether they've lift they run too late.
The Crusader's on twenty seven and the next team being
(21:44):
outside the playoffs on twenty I just don't think there's
enough runway for the Crusaders to slip out entirely. I
get the point from Thomas, yeah, but I just don't
think there's enough And it is a really tough run home,
but I just don't think there's enough runway for them
to slip out of the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Can they win the comp from here?
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Yep, I think they can, which you know the Hurricanes.
I say that's the Hurricanes plays in the week one.
We saw from them last week that they can push
the Hurricanes. They had a game plan that look, the
Hurricanes were trying to probably a bit better than the
Crusaders on the night, but I thought they had a
game plan that well, it didn't win. There are signs
there that maybe if things clicked, all bounceable games their way.
James Dorman calls a forward pass before halftime and also
(22:24):
after halftime. I'm not saying the winner, but I think
I can see a path with potentially they could win it.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Yeah, I think they get in the playoffs. I think
three playoff games away from home is too much of
an ask and I haven't seen enough from them this year.
I think they've been pretty underwhelming on the whole. A
lot of heart last week. They've missed a few players
Will Jordan in particular, But I haven't seen enough.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Fin I haven't seen enough from it a lot of
teams this season.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
I think the Chiefs, the Chiefs and the Hurricanes. Crusader's
beat the Chiefs by twenty points.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
It was a one off, as it was a long
time ago, and that's a bit of an aberration for
what I've seen from that from the Crusaders this year.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
What I mean is that I don't think there are capable. Yeah,
I don't think outside of the Hurricanes, I don't think
they're There's the Corty that we've seen in previous seasons
that would suggest that you can draw a line through them.
I think there are enough is enough to suggest there
is upsets out there and when we get to the
playoffs versus previous seasons where.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
You go, youet home home team will win this Yeah
on their day. Look, there's not much between the top
four New Zealand teams.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Tim Jamison, This has been in the mailbay for a
couple of weeks. Now I finally got to it. Elliott, Hey,
Elliott question that may or may not be interested. I
had troubled digging up the stats. How many games did
Dan Carter have at ten for the Crusaders before getting
the AB's gig Thinking about it in the context of
Reuben Love, You've got to try it at some point.
There's that about replacing card after and Boccada wasn't a
world class Dan Carter in two thousand and five or
(23:49):
four thousand and five. He was a really promising our
player at twelve mites that the Sades and Spencer at
the AB's ahead of them. Just thought it might be
interesting how that might stack up in turns experience at ten,
So I did run the numbers. Dan Carter had ten
stars for either the Crusaders or Canterbury before he started
an All Blacks test at ten. Ten starts now he
played a lot of twelve for the Crusaders and Canterbury.
(24:10):
Played twelve for the All Blacks obviously for a season
and a half before he switched into ten for the
game against Italy in two thousand and four, but that
is ten games at first class level that he's played.
The Ruben Love has had twenty five games at ten
for the Hurricanes or Wellingtonington and he's now twenty five.
(24:30):
Compared to a Dan Carter was what twenty two? I
think when he hear.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Nineteen starts for the Hurricanes at ten Rubin Love, Look,
Dan Carter is such a special player. He always had
time on the ball from such a young age, didn't
he whether it was ten, twelve, that time on the
ball commodity. He just always had it, and so it's
(24:53):
an interesting comparison to make. I think it's probably unfair
to compare anyone to Carter. Realistically, Ruben has touches of
class about him. I think his game still developing, particularly
from a management point of view.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
I think his.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Development has been stunted by the All Blacks by not
giving him enough time, whether that be at ten or fifteen,
and that hasn't helped me the bouncing between the two positions.
It's only really this year that he's come out public
man and said I want to be a ten.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
And if Britt Cameron wasn't injured, who knows whether he
would be playing ten. Maybe Callum Harkin is on the
bench of the Hurricanes and Ruben Love's back at fifteen,
So there's been a circumstance there that is dictated. I
do think over the last twenty years or so, we've
become very conservative in terms of our all black selections.
There's been basically tenured players in there. You look back
(25:46):
to I was watching on YouTube the other day. I
don't know how I came across it, but it was
the probablest Possibles game from two thousand and four at
Eden Park, start of Graham Henry's tenure, and you look
at some of the players there, and yes, it was
a start of a tenure, but there was a real
picking on form sort of scenario there. Yes, said obviously
some incumbents and players that have been around them, with
some injuries as well. For a call Rightley Carter was
(26:07):
actually injured for that game and didn't play, but that
Merton's coming off the bench. They had all sorts of
different players that had played well in that Super Rugby
season and got their opportunities. Now, I think we look
at it as a four year cycle probably more, and
you know, building plays through. But I just think we're
a little bit more risk averse. Whereas twenty years ago
they would have checked to Rubin Love in at ten.
(26:30):
After a couple of years now we just don't seem
to do that well.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
The Welsh Test last year was a prime example that
Ruben Love should have started at ten. How much do
you gain by playing Damien McKenzie at ten in that game?
You could play them at fifteen and that transpires for
the greatest rivalry tour in South Africa. Let's just say
that rich and Monga initially doesn't go on that tour
because at this stage is not eligible as to play
(26:55):
for Canterbury. Wouldn't be shocked at all. Offends up over
there at some point. But you're looking at Ruben Love,
Damien McKenzie and Boden Barut. Now, in my mind Ruben
Love should be a bolted on, guaranteed starter for those
four games. I'm wrong against the South African Super rugby
teams again, you're not going to get anything out of
(27:18):
starting McKenzie at ten or Bowden at ten.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
You know what they can do?
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Well? Was that too far down the track though? I mean,
should he be starting at ten against.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
Front which a couple of months.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
I no, no, I know, but like almost starting him
in those two games, is he capable of starting at
ten against Fronts in the first Test of the year.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Probably yes. I think we need to see a wee
bit more from him. The only Crunch game. Well, not
only we've seen him against the Crusaders, but I think
back to the Chiefs and Hamilton and even then there
was elements of his game. I'm like, I would like
to said do that or I'm sure he'll take, you know,
learn from that experience. But yeah, there's an argument that's
(27:58):
throwmer Now, why not Boden Barretts what thirty six? Damien
Mckinziy's had many cracks, nailed some of them not others,
So there is an argument. But for me, it's just
going to South Africa. Those games over there, You're not
going to get that experience of playing in front of
(28:19):
pack stadiums, experiencing Africa in South Africa, and then if
he nails those opportunities, then it really does light up
that conversation about where he sits in the picking order.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Find a question for the mail Bag this week. Aaron
from Audiawa sees love the pod guys lot's been talked
about with players leaving for overseas. Is there anything INSIDAR
can do about this or is it as simple as
they can't pay off? Also, would you still pick a
player like Fiji being the form player but knowing he
is leaving? Of course, Stephen Flanders joining that list this
week you reporter on the podcast a couple of weeks back,
(28:51):
that was likely confirmed on Monday. First part of the
question then, is there anything insid I can do about this? Well,
not really. Unfortunately, they just don't have the financials to
offer what Newcastle rebul can offer, what a French team
can offer, what a Japanese team can offer. What they
can offer is the All Blacks Jersey. Now there seems
to be a conversation point that comes up every week
(29:14):
or two. Is the All Blacks Juwsey losing its aura? Well,
yes and no, it still has an aura. But also
team professional rugby is only really and it's infancy thirty
one years old. The game is evolving and changing around
what players expect to get out of it, so there
is a fine balance there. But ultimately they just don't
have the coffers to pay some of these players enough.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Yeah, it does seem like it's worse this year than
maybe this time in the previous cycle. I read a
report from Paul Cully about Joanah Lowe and Tannye La
Talia probably leaving the Highlanders. Then you've got Devin Flanders,
massive blow really for the Hurricanes, and you know, just
(29:57):
a shame for a guy that's been on the cusp,
is in career best form to be leaving at that stage,
And is that middle tier that's vulnerable, say the twenty
five six seven year olds who have accumulated that experience,
who are incredibly valuable to their super rugby teams, who
can sometimes double triple their earnings abroad, very very hard
(30:17):
to retain those players. I think the one thing that
you could explore, and it would evolve changing the parameters
around salary caps and maybe even how the.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Players are paid.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
But if wealthy backers of these teams, Sam Malcolm Gillies
wants to go out and pay Fenn young enough for
another hundred two hundred k whatever it is to stay
and play for the Hurricanes, why stop them? Yeah, if
that allows you to retain these players, there must be
a mechanism that you can we.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Get have a market player or something like that, but
play outside the salary cap or outside the cap that
you know you can play pay third party arrangements or
whatever it might be.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
That might not be fair because not all teams can
reach that threshold. But if it means a Fagi or
a Devin Flanders or a branden enor stays for the Crusaders,
then that's a good thing, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
It is second part of the question. Would you still
pick a player like Fairhi being the form player but
knowing he's leaving? It's an interesting question given the South
African tour this year, like do you classify that as
the next biggest thing behind a World Cup? Now? Would
you pick a form player for a World Cup knowing
they're leaving next year? Tricky question? You think that's twenty fifteen.
(31:31):
Charles Patow missed out on the Rugby World Cup because
he was going after that season for he is uncapped obviously.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Same situation Mark Talia last year. Yes, he signed to
go to Japan and wasn't selecting the All Blacks. Beyond that,
Fortunately Sevary's got a few more caps. Yes, thankfully Caleb
tongueytail will finally surpass him.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
No, I wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
I don't think there's anything to gain by investing in
someone's development when they are about to leave, unless they
are committed to coming back. And you get much more
out of bringing in a Caleb tongueytowl. As unfortunate and
disappointing as it is that we're losing. Fore, he'll be
back one day, but I personally wouldn't pick him, And
(32:13):
the way the eligibility is set up, you can't beyond
once he's left anyway.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yeah, I think it's too tricky. Look, I do play,
you know, obviously significant importance on this tour coming up,
and you should have your best players available to play.
But when you've also got to work up the following year,
it's a really tricky one. You need you to have
your best players playing rugby combinations, all that sort of thing.
You know, someone like a nihim La Scudder go back
to twenty fifteen, came in straight in that year, bang,
(32:40):
you know, and he's in a World Cup final. There
is still room for a player like that. But I
just don't know that you'd go with someone like Fiji
this year. I think you've got more to lose potentially
by you know, by putting him in the team and
then blocking a department development of cab taking Tawe or
someone like that, versus what the benefits you get out
of him.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
So yeah, it might be a different conversation if the
All Blacks were allowed to select two three players from offshore.
But even then there's probably caveats around how many caps
or how many years they had to play, which he
probably wouldn't satisfy.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
No, and look there's a genuine argue and he probably
should have been looked at last year for the All Blacks.
He was in very good form for the Hurricanes, you know,
Kennenahlo was as well.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
And yet here we are absolutely probably should have been
on that All Blacks fifteen tour.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Yeah, that'll do us. For Rugby Direct. You can of
course get in touch with the mail bag. We dig
through it every Thursday or thereabouts Rugby Direct at news
Talk ZEDB dot co dot in z. Will be back
early part of next week to review round fifteen of
Super Rapy Specific thanks to Mark Kelly producing that has
been Rapy Directs powered by insid Safety Blacklet's Everything, Trade's
(33:45):
need Sort.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
For more from News Talk ZEDB, listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcast on iHeartRadio
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