July 2, 2026 • 25 mins
On the latest episode of Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier break down Dave Rennie's first All Blacks team naming ahead of the test against France.
Has Rennie got the big calls right?
With Ruben Love at No. 10, Luke Jacobson wearing the seven jersey, and Damian McKenzie at fullback, the boys debate the key selections, the biggest surprises, and what it all means for the All Blacks moving forward.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcast now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Straight down the middle of tru.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Try get inside the game from every air goal. It's
Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith and Leo Levier powered by
News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Access Solutions, elevating you
and your business to a higher level. Elliott Smith with
me Liam Napier. Testmatch City, eight o'clock on a Thursday
night and we are podcasting, Lillam. Great to see you.
As always, we have our first All Black seam of
the year.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
First Test Match. Fever has gripped the Garden City.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Simpy has hasn't it? You can feel it? That or
this minus one degree? Something's gripping the city. First and foremost, Liam,
what did you make of the twenty three named by
Dave Rennie? It was different to the twenty three's we
put out there earlier in the week on the podcast.
Some surprises there overall, What did you make of it?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Absolutely? Some surprises? Yeah, I think brave and bolds and interesting.
I think Dave Rennie has immediately stamped his authority on
this All Black regime, and I don't agree with all
of the selections, but I like the fact that he
has made change and as doing things differently. It's not
(01:41):
the same tried and true he's backing Ruben Love. He's
trying a few different things, not necessarily what I would
have done, but there is a real conviction and it
does feel like a new regime, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
It does. There's a lot of change there. You look
at the team that he's named and Ruben Love, you know,
jumps out handed the keys at ten on the back
of that excellent Super Rugby season with the Hurricanes. I
think it would have a hard cell in the media
conference today if he'd picked Damien McKenzie at ten, if
he'd picked Boden Barrett at ten and overlooked them for
(02:17):
Ruben Love. Their time will come again, probably in the
ten jusy for the All Blacks at some point, inevitably
there'll be injuries, whatever it might be, but he's gone.
Ruben Love is the ten to lead this All Blacks
team into a new era. And I ultimately admire that.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Yeah, he's picked him on form and rewarded him and
he had to. I think it would have sense the
complete wrong message if you go to McKenzie who was
completely upstaged by Love in the Super Rugby Final, or
Boden Barrett who had a very underwhelming Super Rugby season.
Just quickly on Barrett, this is the first time since
twenty fifteen that he has missed selection in the All
(02:54):
Blacks first Test of the year, so very a crossroads
for him potentially, although Dave Rennie did spoke glowingly about
what he's bringing behind the scenes. But just on Love,
the conviction, the confidence to play freely. That should suit
the style of rugby that Rennie wants to play. Look,
(03:17):
Test rugby is a different beast. He's going to have
much less time and space. He wasn't put under a
great deal of pressure throughout the Hurricanes playoff run. You know,
they did it so easy. But he scored twenty five
points in that final two tries. He was player of
the game. It was impossible not to select him for
this game at ten, wasn't.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
It was? And he's got conviction in his ability and
he's said previously on to be the best player in
the world. Well in the final he played like the
best player in the world. So now let's see it
on the test match stage. He's had a crack at
fifteen a couple of times, some bench appearances, but ultimately
he's been having to collect airpoints rather than All Blacks
appearances the last couple of years in this All Blacks team.
(03:56):
Now Rindy's gone, we back you and we're going to
put Roy Guard you know, and number nine inside you.
We're going to put Jordi Barrett there at twelve, so
there is safety nets the wrong term, but some familiarity
either side of him. So it's those Hurricanes players again
that will be inside him, and Jordi Barrett will as
he does because he's quality player. Tacks and pressure off Love,
whether it's a kicking game, whatever it might be, distribution
(04:17):
and you've got Roy Guards there who was one of
the best half backs in the world. So ultimately they've
given him the best possible chance to succeed in this
Test match.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
It's risk and reward, isn't it. That combination is key.
The familiarity that you speak about. Yeah, Reuben Love. It's
an interesting scenario because of his relative inexperience. He's only
played five tests, two starts at fullback, never started at
ten for the All Blacks. That speaks to how much
(04:45):
he's been kept on ice, and also the fact that
he's only really committed to number ten this year. He
played ten at the back end of the year for
the Hurricanes last year, but was still largely seen as
a fallback. Actually played but a wing for the All
Blacks as well. This year. He's had a full campaign
at ten and it made such a difference that clarity.
(05:08):
That's his position and he's carried that through with a
new regime and now he gets the keys. I think
it's too early to say that this is a definitive
changing of the guard at ten, because of course Richie
Muwanga is in the wings waiting to satisfy the eligibility
criteria and be recalled. But Ruben Love needed this chance
and the fact that Mwanga's in that background only enhances
(05:32):
the fact that Love had to have his time now.
So it's a big chance it.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Is, indeed, and you mentioned obviously Mackenzie at fullback, which
we'll get to in a moment, but you know, Davin,
he was very effusive about what Boden Barrat's done since
being in camp. I guess Mackenzie maybe now it was
interesting to hear him say that he thinks they've got
the two best fullbacks in the world. There might be
some cubbling around that from the rest of the.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
World, but I think there will be so for France.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, potentially. But if you look and deeper into that,
does that suggest he believes that Damon McKenzie is best
employed as a fullback rather than a ten. You know,
was there some not secret meaning in those words? But
does it suggest that maybe he's an out and out
fifteen rather than a ten in this all blacks environment.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
I don't think so. No, because at the back end
of this game, I expect McKenzie to come into ten,
Jordan to go back to fullback, Fennonga North fourth to
debut on the right wing. But who knows how the
game plays out. If Rumen loves having a blinder, maybe
he finishes at ten. But I think Ruben, Damien, Boden,
(06:40):
will Jordan. They all have that versatility, which is a strength,
but it is a big core in many respects. Despite
Reuben being the form horse to Usurp, Boden and Damien,
these guys have been around for the best part of
a decade. Boden's played hundreds of tests McKenzie's been in
(07:01):
that environment, so it does a real statement of faith.
I like McKenzie at fullback. I think he played his
best rugby for the All Blacks last year. He was
very brave in the air. He had some great cameos
off the bench. You think about Edinburgh match turning efforts. Yeah, ah,
and with Love coming in, one of mackenzie or Barrett
(07:24):
had to miss out, didn't they They did?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yep, absolutely. I mean they could have added one on
the bench, but it would have been kind of a
pointless selection in many ways. I'm not totally sure on
the bench as a whole. We can come back to
that in a moment potentially.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
What about Will Jordan? Is he now as his future
now on the right wing for the All Blacks under
Dave Rennie?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Maybe it is, But again Rennie goes back and says,
you know, these are the two best fullbacks in the world.
So I tend to sueduce he will see some time
at fullback, whether that's next week, whether it's in three
or four months time, whether it's in South Africa. But
he wants his best players out there, and we know
that Jordan is capable on the right wing, and he's
probably played his best All Blacks rugby on the right wing.
(08:06):
But time comes for everyone wingers, as I know you've
written about extensively, and you know, twenty seven, twenty eight
years of age, when your pay starts to go. I'm
not saying Will Jordan's has necessarily, but at some point
that probably will have to be a live discussion whether
he can still play on the wing and add what
the All Blacks want them to there.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Yeah, it's a funny how things come full circle or
they change complexion because during Ian Foster's regime he was
heavily criticized for not playing Will Jordan at fullback, and
Jordan was open towards the back end of that time
about his preference being to play fullback. Now, Dave Rennie
recounted something today about how when he visited the Crusaders
he talked to Will about that and Will apparently said, well,
(08:47):
I'm not fuss as you probably would do with a
new All Blacks coach, say oh, I'm happy to play anywhere.
And now he finds himself on the right wing, where
as you point out, he scored the bulk of his
tries whoever roaming Commission, he will get highly involved. I
think the big big question up with Will Jordan's game
is his aerial ability, and that seems strange for a
guy that's predominantly played at full back, but you're not
(09:09):
really tested there in Super rugby, and last year he
was part of the problem, recurring problem with the All
Blacks issues on.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
He was he couldn't quite get it right, and so
that's going to be interesting to see how that happens
and whether it's been something that All Blacks have focused
on to get right under this new coaching regime. You'd hope,
because it remains a major part of world rugby and
Test rugby in the way that opposition teams now attack
these days, and you'd hope the All Blacks likewise will
(09:37):
be doing that on attack themselves and deploying a kicking game.
Let's get into the lose forward trier, because that was
a surprise. Peter Larche at six, Luke Jacobson at seven,
Ardisa Villa at eight. Peter Luckeye has never started a
first class game at blindside. Flanker. Dave Reny said in
the media conference that those numbers don't matter as much
as they maybe did ten years ago, apart from sort
(10:00):
of setting at scrums, but this is still a surprise.
Is it the right core to go with these players
in the way that they have.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I'm personally not a fan of that loose Ford trio.
I can understand the rationale that they see Luke Jacobson
as a complimentary presence to Artie Severe and Peter Luckey.
Jacobson has a seven on his back, but his strengths
predominantly defensively, strong shoulders, his work great, pretty good at
(10:30):
the line out as well, so not a traditional pilfering fetcher,
open side flanker by any stretch. Did play there for
the Chiefs. Personally, I like Peter Luckeye at eight. I
thought he was superb there for the Hurricanes this year,
and Artie's in my mind an open side flanka. He
has played some good rugby for the All Blacks at eight.
(10:51):
I just feel like you're over complicating it playing players
out of position. Yes, they're interchangeable, but they are quite
defined roles in some way as well. So look, it's
the first test of the year. I think there'd be
a lot of change in that loose Ford trio. But
we've talked a bit about Luke Jacobson as well. He's
played a number of tests, but in my mind, probably
(11:13):
in yours, never really nailed it at test rugby. So
this is a big opportunity for him as well.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah, I think it is and a chance for him
to maybe just reset his all black's career. He's been
coached by a coach that he's previously worked with and
Dave Rennie maybe not for a long time, and Luke
Jacobson was a you know, little Vigiemite probably back in
those days so to speak. But I think it's a
big chance for Luke Jacobson to reset his test career
somewhat Veggimer momte, I prefer Vegimite. I know that's the
(11:39):
Australian controversial might taste better to me. Yeah, look, I
think it's a chance for him to reset his test
career a little bit. Because I have sat on this
podcast before that I can't think of a test where
Luke Jacobson has gone out and it had an absolute
storman gone you know that was Luke Jacobson's best test
because I can't think of one. It might he's a
(12:00):
great player at super rapi level, but I just haven't
seen him take that step up. Now with a clean
slate of sorts, this could be the opportunity that he
needs to really lockdown a jersey in this loose Ford trio.
And his versatility is a strength and the fact that
apparently we don't see numbers anymore or roles in this
loose Ward trio, you know he can slide between all
(12:20):
of those roles. So I think it's a big opportunity
for Lou Jacobson on Saturday Night to stamp his authority
and make him the first choice open side flankert in
this mix going forward, because previously to this point, I
don't think he has.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Well in the big caveat to that is it sounds
like Dave Rennie views Artie Severe as an eight first
and foremost, and so that leaves the open side jersey
potentially open, not just for Jacobson, but Anton Signer as well.
Could really state his case as this series progresses. And
it also the recurring question about number six and it's
(12:58):
the profile of your loose Fords as a combination, and
Reny admitted that this was the area that they discussed
the most and successive all black coaches or trios of
loose forwards generally have one combative, hard hitting, hard working
player that Simon Parker fulfilled that role or was supposed
(13:19):
to fulfill that role under Scott Robertson, you're going back
to Shannon Frazelle or Liam Squire. You know, it's been
a perennial problem. So now Peter Luckeye gets thrown the jersey?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Do you think that there? And we've talked about oviously
about the jerseys and not meeting maybe as much, but
are they trying to fashion Luckhaie into that role? So
they've seen something. Obviously he's an excellent player and storming
Super Rugby Final, but have they gone yep, there's enough
elements there that we can make him a blindside flanker
and make him into the next Jerome Cano going back
ten plus years now, and he's the kind of guy
(13:55):
that we can see feeling that even though traditionally he's
played Steven or Raight.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
I think it's a case of we're picking Ardie at
eight and so we need Peter Luckeye in the trio.
So weird is he fit and they've gone six. It
seems a bit strange because if it'd probably be less
polarizing if you put Peter Lukeye at seven and Jacobson
at eight. But they've obviously got a rationale for it.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, they do again, but numbers don't matter. Well that
you know, the less importance. But we're getting very tangled
and going, well, why are players wearing certain numbers? Wallace
Satisi comes off the bench as well. Haven't seen him
since that horrible head knock in the game against the
Reds in the first round of the Super Ruggy Plaffs.
He played a little bit of impact last year off
(14:39):
the All Blacks bench. He can bring impact in the
last in the closing minutes of games. You wouldntn't wouldn't
want a pigeonhole him there necessarily, But in the way
that they've selected this team, I can see him, you know,
hading some impact in it closing stage.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Absolutely yeah. And I think look from an attacking dynamic
point of view, Setti starts in your loose Ford trio.
But it comes back to those complementary skill sets and
at this stage of his career, he probably doesn't bring
that hard defensive presence that compliments Ardi and Lackaye, and
(15:18):
so he's the one that misses out.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
I think it's exactly it. He's had to miss out
on this occasion. Maybe they'll tweak it again depending on
how it goes this weekend.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
And Jason Ryan also said earlier in the week that
they view him as an eight, so now he's stuck
behind Ardi.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, just interesting reading and dissecting some of the comments
that have been made this week alone. Elsewhere in the
twenty three, the Locks kind of picked themselves with Darry
and Josh Lord to start to provide out with concussion.
Obviously Barrett's not there, I Fabien Holan's not there, and
Patrick Tepilotto. It's being a Pigeonholing has been very much
(15:55):
given the impact role at test level for two coaches now,
if not longer. It's really fulfills very well. So I
suppose they haven't changed it there front row. They've gone
with the starters there and de Groot Taylor then in
an all Hurricanes replacement trio via which you can see
the benefits of anything stand out from the rest of
the twenty three.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
I think it's a test you're locking depth, you're into
your fourth and fifth choice locks because there's no Scott Barrett,
no Fabian Holland, no TUPUVIAI so big responsibility on those
guys to own the line out and bring physical presences
around the park. Josh Lord has been superb this year
for the Chiefs. Big opportunity for Sam Darry. I really
do like largely the composition of the All Blacks bench,
(16:40):
if we separate it out. Though I'm a big fan
of the Fords. They all hurricanes front row, no mere
more lomax man like unleashing them in the last half
an hour. That's a real point of difference with toy
Polotu and Sititi. I would have selected Kyle Preston over
(17:00):
Cortes Ratima. Billy Proctor I think probably deserves his selection
on the base of what he puts together this year
in Superbriate, but I'm also not sold on him being
an impact player as yet and then fitting enough for
there be a few nerves there, hopefully get some early
touches and can impress. So I do largely like certainly
(17:22):
that the Fords on that bench, and I don't think
the All Blacks have got that element right in recent
years either.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
No, I don't think they have, and hopefully this is
a step towards I tend to agree about the backs,
Billy Procter can only play center. I mean, maybe you
could put him on the wing. Potentially hasn't played a
lot there, but maybe you could taken a role, but
you've already got a wing there, so I think I'm
not quite sold on that necessarily, But otherwise I think
are pretty well rounded and interesting. Twenty three from Dave
(17:52):
Rennie and you can quibble with it, but I think
ultimately does you know, represent a step forward for this
All Blacks team who are going to face a French
side on the weekend with a lot of Bordeaux players
in the mix. They've named their squad this evening as well,
the headline being Luku and Jellowbeert nine and ten for
a million names to a New Zealand audience. More fun
(18:14):
at second five Damienos and the mix as well.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
The other wing twenty one year olds was one of
their standouts last year as well. So yeah, quite lanky, tall, fast, skillful,
great in the air. He really impressed me this time
last year.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Yeah, he was excellent, and I think ye know that.
You know, this French team has once again been written
off to an extent, but they've got a lot of
Bordeaux players who are the European champions. They're going to
come in.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
With eight from Bordeaux and the squad. Yeah, so there
are established combinations they might be. I think the All
Blacks will fancy themselves at the scrum because France don't
have their first choice props, so they may come for
them there. And they have gone with their strong, very
strong scrummages and the grout and nule, so I think
that's one area they may target the French. But as
(19:07):
we saw last year the Test of the Year, it
was pretty squeaky and France love being written off, don't they.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
They do, and they've got a lot of quality players
and will play in different ways to the All Blacks
have played in recent times in Super Rugby, So not
a lot of time together for the All Blacks opponents
that are spending a lot of time to give the
club level. How's this going to play out on Saturday night?
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Who knows. Look, there's a lot of familiarity in the
All Black team when you talk about Roy guard Love, Barretts.
There's enough class in that team the All Blacks should win.
But first Test of the Year traditionally rusty French it's
a tied trope, but they are unpredictable, not necessarily in
the way they play, but if they get their tails up,
(19:56):
if they get a bit of momentum, they can be
incredibly dangerous. If they are allowed to offloads, if they
can pressure the All Blacks under the high ball and
live off some scraps and put some school board pressure
on and you know, put some heat on Ruben Love
force a few early mistakes, that they are a live chance.
(20:16):
I would not be writing off this French team, but
missing I think it's eight top fourteen finalists. Reny you know,
starting his tenure. It doesn't really matter how it happens,
but They'll Blacks have to win. Just win, get on
the board and then you can progress from there.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Let's think back two years ago. The All Blacks played
England in Dunedin and they squeaked.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Home absolutely Marcus Smith had he had a better night
off the team in England won that game.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
If the All Black's winning that fashion on Saturday night,
will that be enough?
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Well, not for the public probably, you know, it's it's
not enough for the All Blacks to win. It's how
they win more by how much. But internally I think
they'd probably take a starting points. But look, there's enough
experience in that all Black team to deliver a performance.
There'll be a lot of overtivation coming back to christ
Church playing in a pristine venue, starting a new era.
(21:13):
There's a whole lot of talk about optimism, but there
is a reality of bringing a new management team together,
sharing a lot of new calls, making changes that that
generally takes time. So I do expect there to be
a bit of clunkiness.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yeah, I think it will be right before we go
Super Rugby announcing the format for next year ten teams.
Obviously there's still a top six, although the lucky loser
has been sent to the graveyards of Super Rugby ideas
joining who else? It's quite full that some wolves, what
is the Rebels, Kings, Kings South Africa in general? Yeah,
(21:51):
so welcome in the lucky Loserana Lana, Yep. What do
you make of the format for next year?
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Two more weeks could be quite a hard sell? Look,
I think the format as such as probably probably the
best that they could come up with the time in
the allotted time frame. It's not completely fair because the
Australians won't play the Kiwi teams as much, so that's
a leg up for them. And I have major issues
(22:20):
with the top six even that, even though the first
two teams have the week off, six teams making the
postseason from ten is quite fascical, really, isn't it. And
from my mind, a top you can satisfy the broadcasters
and the fans here. What you do is you have
a top four and you have home and away semis
(22:44):
and then you still get six finals matches and you
don't have to have a top six.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah. I'm coming around to that idea of having the
top four semi finals one place four, you play away first,
and then the home team gets a benefit of knowing
sort of what they've got to chase in Week two.
I think there's a lot of benefit to that. And
you have the best teams of the competition playing more
often at the back end.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
It's got to be some jeper throughout the season.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yeah, absolutely, And I don't think it is particularly fan
centric to extend the regular season out by two weeks
and then still put a top six in. You're giving
more games in the regular season for a top six
that I could probably tell you right now is probably
going to be the same as this year, maybe give
or take one team. Yeah, yeah, exactly, come on, Force
(23:31):
surprised me. Drewors surprised me.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
You know, yeah, the Force got quite a high turnover,
but they were the big movies and Aussie this.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Year surprised me, Like I could tell, barring massive changes,
it's probably going to be around the same top six.
So we're playing sixteen, seventeen weeks, whatever it is. I
think sixteen off the top of me head. To get
to the same or similar top six needs to be
jepandine needs to be a top four and that puts
more emphasis on the regular season games. If there is
(23:59):
only a top four to make it.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Yeah, yeah, you had me at hello, I just I can't.
You could tune out for the best part of half
the year and tune into the back end, and like
you say, you can pick your top six now. So
if it's not home and away semi finals, maybe you
have a home and away grand final. Yeah you know,
(24:21):
and you still get your three weeks of finals. But
it's an elite professional competition because there's jeopardy and not
over half your teams are making the postseason.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah, this just doesn't work with ten teams sixteen plaff,
but there needs to be some path towards expansion.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
I think.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
The only tick I would give them is they resisted
the urge or the push from Australia to go to
conferences which would have guaranteed an Australian presence in the finals.
And we just don't need that.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
No, we don't. I said enough about Australia the other day.
You're not welcome across it. It would be very interesting
to get there in September October for the.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
You better hope your family in Perth give your safe housels.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Yeah, it might be the best possible so around that.
Thanks to Mark Kelly for producing this Right by Direct
podcast on a Thursday night. We are powered by Excess Solutions,
elevating you and your business to a higher level.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
For more from News Talk st B, listen live on
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You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B.
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Speaker 2 (00:18):
Straight down the middle of tru.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Try get inside the game from every air goal. It's
Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith and Leo Levier powered by
News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Access Solutions, elevating you
and your business to a higher level. Elliott Smith with
me Liam Napier. Testmatch City, eight o'clock on a Thursday
night and we are podcasting, Lillam. Great to see you.
As always, we have our first All Black seam of
the year.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
First Test Match. Fever has gripped the Garden City.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Simpy has hasn't it? You can feel it? That or
this minus one degree? Something's gripping the city. First and foremost, Liam,
what did you make of the twenty three named by
Dave Rennie? It was different to the twenty three's we
put out there earlier in the week on the podcast.
Some surprises there overall, What did you make of it?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Absolutely? Some surprises? Yeah, I think brave and bolds and interesting.
I think Dave Rennie has immediately stamped his authority on
this All Black regime, and I don't agree with all
of the selections, but I like the fact that he
has made change and as doing things differently. It's not
(01:41):
the same tried and true he's backing Ruben Love. He's
trying a few different things, not necessarily what I would
have done, but there is a real conviction and it
does feel like a new regime, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
It does. There's a lot of change there. You look
at the team that he's named and Ruben Love, you know,
jumps out handed the keys at ten on the back
of that excellent Super Rugby season with the Hurricanes. I
think it would have a hard cell in the media
conference today if he'd picked Damien McKenzie at ten, if
he'd picked Boden Barrett at ten and overlooked them for
(02:17):
Ruben Love. Their time will come again, probably in the
ten jusy for the All Blacks at some point, inevitably
there'll be injuries, whatever it might be, but he's gone.
Ruben Love is the ten to lead this All Blacks
team into a new era. And I ultimately admire that.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Yeah, he's picked him on form and rewarded him and
he had to. I think it would have sense the
complete wrong message if you go to McKenzie who was
completely upstaged by Love in the Super Rugby Final, or
Boden Barrett who had a very underwhelming Super Rugby season.
Just quickly on Barrett, this is the first time since
twenty fifteen that he has missed selection in the All
(02:54):
Blacks first Test of the year, so very a crossroads
for him potentially, although Dave Rennie did spoke glowingly about
what he's bringing behind the scenes. But just on Love,
the conviction, the confidence to play freely. That should suit
the style of rugby that Rennie wants to play. Look,
(03:17):
Test rugby is a different beast. He's going to have
much less time and space. He wasn't put under a
great deal of pressure throughout the Hurricanes playoff run. You know,
they did it so easy. But he scored twenty five
points in that final two tries. He was player of
the game. It was impossible not to select him for
this game at ten, wasn't.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
It was? And he's got conviction in his ability and
he's said previously on to be the best player in
the world. Well in the final he played like the
best player in the world. So now let's see it
on the test match stage. He's had a crack at
fifteen a couple of times, some bench appearances, but ultimately
he's been having to collect airpoints rather than All Blacks
appearances the last couple of years in this All Blacks team.
(03:56):
Now Rindy's gone, we back you and we're going to
put Roy Guard you know, and number nine inside you.
We're going to put Jordi Barrett there at twelve, so
there is safety nets the wrong term, but some familiarity
either side of him. So it's those Hurricanes players again
that will be inside him, and Jordi Barrett will as
he does because he's quality player. Tacks and pressure off Love,
whether it's a kicking game, whatever it might be, distribution
(04:17):
and you've got Roy Guards there who was one of
the best half backs in the world. So ultimately they've
given him the best possible chance to succeed in this
Test match.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
It's risk and reward, isn't it. That combination is key.
The familiarity that you speak about. Yeah, Reuben Love. It's
an interesting scenario because of his relative inexperience. He's only
played five tests, two starts at fullback, never started at
ten for the All Blacks. That speaks to how much
(04:45):
he's been kept on ice, and also the fact that
he's only really committed to number ten this year. He
played ten at the back end of the year for
the Hurricanes last year, but was still largely seen as
a fallback. Actually played but a wing for the All
Blacks as well. This year. He's had a full campaign
at ten and it made such a difference that clarity.
(05:08):
That's his position and he's carried that through with a
new regime and now he gets the keys. I think
it's too early to say that this is a definitive
changing of the guard at ten, because of course Richie
Muwanga is in the wings waiting to satisfy the eligibility
criteria and be recalled. But Ruben Love needed this chance
and the fact that Mwanga's in that background only enhances
(05:32):
the fact that Love had to have his time now.
So it's a big chance it.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Is, indeed, and you mentioned obviously Mackenzie at fullback, which
we'll get to in a moment, but you know, Davin,
he was very effusive about what Boden Barrat's done since
being in camp. I guess Mackenzie maybe now it was
interesting to hear him say that he thinks they've got
the two best fullbacks in the world. There might be
some cubbling around that from the rest of the.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
World, but I think there will be so for France.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, potentially. But if you look and deeper into that,
does that suggest he believes that Damon McKenzie is best
employed as a fullback rather than a ten. You know,
was there some not secret meaning in those words? But
does it suggest that maybe he's an out and out
fifteen rather than a ten in this all blacks environment.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
I don't think so. No, because at the back end
of this game, I expect McKenzie to come into ten,
Jordan to go back to fullback, Fennonga North fourth to
debut on the right wing. But who knows how the
game plays out. If Rumen loves having a blinder, maybe
he finishes at ten. But I think Ruben, Damien, Boden,
(06:40):
will Jordan. They all have that versatility, which is a strength,
but it is a big core in many respects. Despite
Reuben being the form horse to Usurp, Boden and Damien,
these guys have been around for the best part of
a decade. Boden's played hundreds of tests McKenzie's been in
(07:01):
that environment, so it does a real statement of faith.
I like McKenzie at fullback. I think he played his
best rugby for the All Blacks last year. He was
very brave in the air. He had some great cameos
off the bench. You think about Edinburgh match turning efforts. Yeah, ah,
and with Love coming in, one of mackenzie or Barrett
(07:24):
had to miss out, didn't they They did?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yep, absolutely. I mean they could have added one on
the bench, but it would have been kind of a
pointless selection in many ways. I'm not totally sure on
the bench as a whole. We can come back to
that in a moment potentially.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
What about Will Jordan? Is he now as his future
now on the right wing for the All Blacks under
Dave Rennie?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Maybe it is, But again Rennie goes back and says,
you know, these are the two best fullbacks in the world.
So I tend to sueduce he will see some time
at fullback, whether that's next week, whether it's in three
or four months time, whether it's in South Africa. But
he wants his best players out there, and we know
that Jordan is capable on the right wing, and he's
probably played his best All Blacks rugby on the right wing.
(08:06):
But time comes for everyone wingers, as I know you've
written about extensively, and you know, twenty seven, twenty eight
years of age, when your pay starts to go. I'm
not saying Will Jordan's has necessarily, but at some point
that probably will have to be a live discussion whether
he can still play on the wing and add what
the All Blacks want them to there.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Yeah, it's a funny how things come full circle or
they change complexion because during Ian Foster's regime he was
heavily criticized for not playing Will Jordan at fullback, and
Jordan was open towards the back end of that time
about his preference being to play fullback. Now, Dave Rennie
recounted something today about how when he visited the Crusaders
he talked to Will about that and Will apparently said, well,
(08:47):
I'm not fuss as you probably would do with a
new All Blacks coach, say oh, I'm happy to play anywhere.
And now he finds himself on the right wing, where
as you point out, he scored the bulk of his
tries whoever roaming Commission, he will get highly involved. I
think the big big question up with Will Jordan's game
is his aerial ability, and that seems strange for a
guy that's predominantly played at full back, but you're not
(09:09):
really tested there in Super rugby, and last year he
was part of the problem, recurring problem with the All
Blacks issues on.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
He was he couldn't quite get it right, and so
that's going to be interesting to see how that happens
and whether it's been something that All Blacks have focused
on to get right under this new coaching regime. You'd hope,
because it remains a major part of world rugby and
Test rugby in the way that opposition teams now attack
these days, and you'd hope the All Blacks likewise will
(09:37):
be doing that on attack themselves and deploying a kicking game.
Let's get into the lose forward trier, because that was
a surprise. Peter Larche at six, Luke Jacobson at seven,
Ardisa Villa at eight. Peter Luckeye has never started a
first class game at blindside. Flanker. Dave Reny said in
the media conference that those numbers don't matter as much
as they maybe did ten years ago, apart from sort
(10:00):
of setting at scrums, but this is still a surprise.
Is it the right core to go with these players
in the way that they have.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I'm personally not a fan of that loose Ford trio.
I can understand the rationale that they see Luke Jacobson
as a complimentary presence to Artie Severe and Peter Luckey.
Jacobson has a seven on his back, but his strengths
predominantly defensively, strong shoulders, his work great, pretty good at
(10:30):
the line out as well, so not a traditional pilfering fetcher,
open side flanker by any stretch. Did play there for
the Chiefs. Personally, I like Peter Luckeye at eight. I
thought he was superb there for the Hurricanes this year,
and Artie's in my mind an open side flanka. He
has played some good rugby for the All Blacks at eight.
(10:51):
I just feel like you're over complicating it playing players
out of position. Yes, they're interchangeable, but they are quite
defined roles in some way as well. So look, it's
the first test of the year. I think there'd be
a lot of change in that loose Ford trio. But
we've talked a bit about Luke Jacobson as well. He's
played a number of tests, but in my mind, probably
(11:13):
in yours, never really nailed it at test rugby. So
this is a big opportunity for him as well.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah, I think it is and a chance for him
to maybe just reset his all black's career. He's been
coached by a coach that he's previously worked with and
Dave Rennie maybe not for a long time, and Luke
Jacobson was a you know, little Vigiemite probably back in
those days so to speak. But I think it's a
big chance for Luke Jacobson to reset his test career
somewhat Veggimer momte, I prefer Vegimite. I know that's the
(11:39):
Australian controversial might taste better to me. Yeah, look, I
think it's a chance for him to reset his test
career a little bit. Because I have sat on this
podcast before that I can't think of a test where
Luke Jacobson has gone out and it had an absolute
storman gone you know that was Luke Jacobson's best test
because I can't think of one. It might he's a
(12:00):
great player at super rapi level, but I just haven't
seen him take that step up. Now with a clean
slate of sorts, this could be the opportunity that he
needs to really lockdown a jersey in this loose Ford trio.
And his versatility is a strength and the fact that
apparently we don't see numbers anymore or roles in this
loose Ward trio, you know he can slide between all
(12:20):
of those roles. So I think it's a big opportunity
for Lou Jacobson on Saturday Night to stamp his authority
and make him the first choice open side flankert in
this mix going forward, because previously to this point, I
don't think he has.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Well in the big caveat to that is it sounds
like Dave Rennie views Artie Severe as an eight first
and foremost, and so that leaves the open side jersey
potentially open, not just for Jacobson, but Anton Signer as well.
Could really state his case as this series progresses. And
it also the recurring question about number six and it's
(12:58):
the profile of your loose Fords as a combination, and
Reny admitted that this was the area that they discussed
the most and successive all black coaches or trios of
loose forwards generally have one combative, hard hitting, hard working
player that Simon Parker fulfilled that role or was supposed
(13:19):
to fulfill that role under Scott Robertson, you're going back
to Shannon Frazelle or Liam Squire. You know, it's been
a perennial problem. So now Peter Luckeye gets thrown the jersey?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Do you think that there? And we've talked about oviously
about the jerseys and not meeting maybe as much, but
are they trying to fashion Luckhaie into that role? So
they've seen something. Obviously he's an excellent player and storming
Super Rugby Final, but have they gone yep, there's enough
elements there that we can make him a blindside flanker
and make him into the next Jerome Cano going back
ten plus years now, and he's the kind of guy
(13:55):
that we can see feeling that even though traditionally he's
played Steven or Raight.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
I think it's a case of we're picking Ardie at
eight and so we need Peter Luckeye in the trio.
So weird is he fit and they've gone six. It
seems a bit strange because if it'd probably be less
polarizing if you put Peter Lukeye at seven and Jacobson
at eight. But they've obviously got a rationale for it.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, they do again, but numbers don't matter. Well that
you know, the less importance. But we're getting very tangled
and going, well, why are players wearing certain numbers? Wallace
Satisi comes off the bench as well. Haven't seen him
since that horrible head knock in the game against the
Reds in the first round of the Super Ruggy Plaffs.
He played a little bit of impact last year off
(14:39):
the All Blacks bench. He can bring impact in the
last in the closing minutes of games. You wouldntn't wouldn't
want a pigeonhole him there necessarily, But in the way
that they've selected this team, I can see him, you know,
hading some impact in it closing stage.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Absolutely yeah. And I think look from an attacking dynamic
point of view, Setti starts in your loose Ford trio.
But it comes back to those complementary skill sets and
at this stage of his career, he probably doesn't bring
that hard defensive presence that compliments Ardi and Lackaye, and
(15:18):
so he's the one that misses out.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
I think it's exactly it. He's had to miss out
on this occasion. Maybe they'll tweak it again depending on
how it goes this weekend.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
And Jason Ryan also said earlier in the week that
they view him as an eight, so now he's stuck
behind Ardi.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, just interesting reading and dissecting some of the comments
that have been made this week alone. Elsewhere in the
twenty three, the Locks kind of picked themselves with Darry
and Josh Lord to start to provide out with concussion.
Obviously Barrett's not there, I Fabien Holan's not there, and
Patrick Tepilotto. It's being a Pigeonholing has been very much
(15:55):
given the impact role at test level for two coaches now,
if not longer. It's really fulfills very well. So I
suppose they haven't changed it there front row. They've gone
with the starters there and de Groot Taylor then in
an all Hurricanes replacement trio via which you can see
the benefits of anything stand out from the rest of
the twenty three.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
I think it's a test you're locking depth, you're into
your fourth and fifth choice locks because there's no Scott Barrett,
no Fabian Holland, no TUPUVIAI so big responsibility on those
guys to own the line out and bring physical presences
around the park. Josh Lord has been superb this year
for the Chiefs. Big opportunity for Sam Darry. I really
do like largely the composition of the All Blacks bench,
(16:40):
if we separate it out. Though I'm a big fan
of the Fords. They all hurricanes front row, no mere
more lomax man like unleashing them in the last half
an hour. That's a real point of difference with toy
Polotu and Sititi. I would have selected Kyle Preston over
(17:00):
Cortes Ratima. Billy Proctor I think probably deserves his selection
on the base of what he puts together this year
in Superbriate, but I'm also not sold on him being
an impact player as yet and then fitting enough for
there be a few nerves there, hopefully get some early
touches and can impress. So I do largely like certainly
(17:22):
that the Fords on that bench, and I don't think
the All Blacks have got that element right in recent
years either.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
No, I don't think they have, and hopefully this is
a step towards I tend to agree about the backs,
Billy Procter can only play center. I mean, maybe you
could put him on the wing. Potentially hasn't played a
lot there, but maybe you could taken a role, but
you've already got a wing there, so I think I'm
not quite sold on that necessarily, But otherwise I think
are pretty well rounded and interesting. Twenty three from Dave
(17:52):
Rennie and you can quibble with it, but I think
ultimately does you know, represent a step forward for this
All Blacks team who are going to face a French
side on the weekend with a lot of Bordeaux players
in the mix. They've named their squad this evening as well,
the headline being Luku and Jellowbeert nine and ten for
a million names to a New Zealand audience. More fun
(18:14):
at second five Damienos and the mix as well.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
The other wing twenty one year olds was one of
their standouts last year as well. So yeah, quite lanky, tall, fast, skillful,
great in the air. He really impressed me this time
last year.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Yeah, he was excellent, and I think ye know that.
You know, this French team has once again been written
off to an extent, but they've got a lot of
Bordeaux players who are the European champions. They're going to
come in.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
With eight from Bordeaux and the squad. Yeah, so there
are established combinations they might be. I think the All
Blacks will fancy themselves at the scrum because France don't
have their first choice props, so they may come for
them there. And they have gone with their strong, very
strong scrummages and the grout and nule, so I think
that's one area they may target the French. But as
(19:07):
we saw last year the Test of the Year, it
was pretty squeaky and France love being written off, don't they.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
They do, and they've got a lot of quality players
and will play in different ways to the All Blacks
have played in recent times in Super Rugby, So not
a lot of time together for the All Blacks opponents
that are spending a lot of time to give the
club level. How's this going to play out on Saturday night?
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Who knows. Look, there's a lot of familiarity in the
All Black team when you talk about Roy guard Love, Barretts.
There's enough class in that team the All Blacks should win.
But first Test of the Year traditionally rusty French it's
a tied trope, but they are unpredictable, not necessarily in
the way they play, but if they get their tails up,
(19:56):
if they get a bit of momentum, they can be
incredibly dangerous. If they are allowed to offloads, if they
can pressure the All Blacks under the high ball and
live off some scraps and put some school board pressure
on and you know, put some heat on Ruben Love
force a few early mistakes, that they are a live chance.
(20:16):
I would not be writing off this French team, but
missing I think it's eight top fourteen finalists. Reny you know,
starting his tenure. It doesn't really matter how it happens,
but They'll Blacks have to win. Just win, get on
the board and then you can progress from there.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Let's think back two years ago. The All Blacks played
England in Dunedin and they squeaked.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Home absolutely Marcus Smith had he had a better night
off the team in England won that game.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
If the All Black's winning that fashion on Saturday night,
will that be enough?
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Well, not for the public probably, you know, it's it's
not enough for the All Blacks to win. It's how
they win more by how much. But internally I think
they'd probably take a starting points. But look, there's enough
experience in that all Black team to deliver a performance.
There'll be a lot of overtivation coming back to christ
Church playing in a pristine venue, starting a new era.
(21:13):
There's a whole lot of talk about optimism, but there
is a reality of bringing a new management team together,
sharing a lot of new calls, making changes that that
generally takes time. So I do expect there to be
a bit of clunkiness.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yeah, I think it will be right before we go
Super Rugby announcing the format for next year ten teams.
Obviously there's still a top six, although the lucky loser
has been sent to the graveyards of Super Rugby ideas
joining who else? It's quite full that some wolves, what
is the Rebels, Kings, Kings South Africa in general? Yeah,
(21:51):
so welcome in the lucky Loserana Lana, Yep. What do
you make of the format for next year?
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Two more weeks could be quite a hard sell? Look,
I think the format as such as probably probably the
best that they could come up with the time in
the allotted time frame. It's not completely fair because the
Australians won't play the Kiwi teams as much, so that's
a leg up for them. And I have major issues
(22:20):
with the top six even that, even though the first
two teams have the week off, six teams making the
postseason from ten is quite fascical, really, isn't it. And
from my mind, a top you can satisfy the broadcasters
and the fans here. What you do is you have
a top four and you have home and away semis
(22:44):
and then you still get six finals matches and you
don't have to have a top six.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah. I'm coming around to that idea of having the
top four semi finals one place four, you play away first,
and then the home team gets a benefit of knowing
sort of what they've got to chase in Week two.
I think there's a lot of benefit to that. And
you have the best teams of the competition playing more
often at the back end.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
It's got to be some jeper throughout the season.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yeah, absolutely, And I don't think it is particularly fan
centric to extend the regular season out by two weeks
and then still put a top six in. You're giving
more games in the regular season for a top six
that I could probably tell you right now is probably
going to be the same as this year, maybe give
or take one team. Yeah, yeah, exactly, come on, Force
(23:31):
surprised me. Drewors surprised me.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
You know, yeah, the Force got quite a high turnover,
but they were the big movies and Aussie this.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Year surprised me, Like I could tell, barring massive changes,
it's probably going to be around the same top six.
So we're playing sixteen, seventeen weeks, whatever it is. I
think sixteen off the top of me head. To get
to the same or similar top six needs to be
jepandine needs to be a top four and that puts
more emphasis on the regular season games. If there is
(23:59):
only a top four to make it.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Yeah, yeah, you had me at hello, I just I can't.
You could tune out for the best part of half
the year and tune into the back end, and like
you say, you can pick your top six now. So
if it's not home and away semi finals, maybe you
have a home and away grand final. Yeah you know,
(24:21):
and you still get your three weeks of finals. But
it's an elite professional competition because there's jeopardy and not
over half your teams are making the postseason.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah, this just doesn't work with ten teams sixteen plaff,
but there needs to be some path towards expansion.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
I think.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
The only tick I would give them is they resisted
the urge or the push from Australia to go to
conferences which would have guaranteed an Australian presence in the finals.
And we just don't need that.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
No, we don't. I said enough about Australia the other day.
You're not welcome across it. It would be very interesting
to get there in September October for the.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
You better hope your family in Perth give your safe housels.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Yeah, it might be the best possible so around that.
Thanks to Mark Kelly for producing this Right by Direct
podcast on a Thursday night. We are powered by Excess Solutions,
elevating you and your business to a higher level.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
For more from News Talk st B, listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
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