July 19, 2026 • 41 mins
Rugby Direct is back as Elliott Smith and Liam Napier break down the All Blacks’ emphatic 40-21 win over Ireland, extending their remarkable unbeaten streak at Eden Park. The boys review a perfect opening block of the Nations Championship, with the All Blacks going three from three, and assess the key performances, talking points, and big takeaways from the series.
They also look ahead to the next major milestone on the road to South Africa, analysing what changes Dave Rennie could make when he names his 44-man squad on Monday. Who’s played their way in, who’s under pressure, and what does the next chapter of the All Blacks’ campaign look like? It’s all covered on the latest episode of Rugby Direct.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Straight down the middle of Trust, try.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
To get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby
Direct with Elliott Smith and Liam Napier, powered by News
Talks EDB.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Access Solutions, elevating you
and your business to a higher level. The Nation's Championship
July window done and dusted. Elliott Smith with me Liam
Napier to reflect on the All Blacks campaign and the
rest of it. Nate's greetings, Welcome in to Rugby Directors.
(01:01):
We settle into a risk week of sorts after a
hectic three weeks.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
That's right book for sauna.
Speaker 5 (01:10):
We'll do some hot colds and refresh and get ready
to go again after what's been very intriguing three weeks,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
It has been?
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Indeed, let's get into Saturday night the All Blacks forty.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Twenty one over Ireland.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Your top one reflections on that game, Napes.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
I think it was a massive step forward, wasn't it, Elliott?
Speaker 5 (01:31):
Certainly the most complete performance we've seen of the first
three outings from Dave Renny's All Blacks big progressions.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
I think in the balance of their attack. I think
their defense improved.
Speaker 5 (01:45):
They were a lot more direct, they kicked more, and
you know, they probably it's been a wee bit harsh potentially,
but I felt like they could have put fifty Islands
the second half. There was a few chances Island came
back a little bit, but they're up twenty eight seven
at halftime. By that point the game's done, so Fortress
(02:07):
Eden park another fifty third notch, consecutive notch on the
belt there, and I think it really did portray the
starkly contrasting trajectories of Ireland and the All Blacks as well.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah, I'd agree with that look.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Heading into it, I didn't feel that Island had what
it takes to stick with us All Black side for
eighty minutes, and we hadn't seen the full array of
what the All Blacks potentially are capable of in the
first two weeks. But I just felt that Island was
on a trajectory downwards, even though they hadn't had to
travel beyond Australia for the first two weeks of the competition,
even though they rested a lot of players I just
(02:45):
feel that Ireland have hit their ceiling and are on
the way backwards. And that's reflected in the fact that
they probably peaked in twenty twenty two, a year too
early for the Rugby World Cup, went and lost to
the All Blacks, of course in the quarterfinals, and have
lost to them each year since. And I just felt
that the All Blacks no longer fear Island potentially as
(03:05):
they might have done after that series twenty twenty two.
I think the All Blacks have been on the upwards
trajectory over the last couple of weeks. Now that's not
to say the All Blacks, you know, were perfect, but
I just did feel heading into the game that you know,
the All Blacks would win. I think, I said by
ten points on Thursday, very good All Blacks performance. When
(03:26):
they were on, they were on. They made the most
of several opportunities in the first spell. Had they converted
the opportunity inside the twenty two at fourteen nil up
when Luke Jacobson cleared out the Irish lock sorry Josh
Wonderfleer with with James Ryan in the way, it might
well have been twenty one nil. Essentially, it was game
(03:46):
over at halftime at twenty eight seven either way, but
I do tend to agree that they probably could have
beaten Island by more. So it was a statement of swords,
but perhaps not the full statement from this All Blacks team.
Speaker 5 (04:00):
Yeah, it's hard to be too picky, isn't it When
you put forty points on Island, score six trays to three,
and so many elements of your game show vastly more
promise and progression, but.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
You always want more for the All Blacks.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
So I think you're right they left some points out
there and they could have been more ruthless in.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
The way that they finished them off.
Speaker 5 (04:20):
Just going back to what you're saying there about Islands
and the All Blacks now having won the last four
encounters to really reshape the nature of this rivalry. I
think if you go back four years ago two Ireland's
first series win in New Zealand's they really picked apart
the All Blacks their attacking game, their short passing game.
(04:42):
Johnny Sexton was the faulkrum then, but the All Blacks
didn't have a lot of answers defensively, they were really
exposed and I think what we're seeing now is the
All Blacks have worked Ireland out to a point they
know what's coming, and there's multiple reasons for that. Dave
Rennie Spence a couple of years in Glasgow, so he
would have had close proximity to Ireland's Jeordie Barrett and
(05:07):
Riqulwhani had both been up there for six months since,
and a number of US All Black team have faced
Island regularly, and so I think they knew it was coming,
and that did seem evident in the way they defended.
They flooded the passing lanes, They put Sam Prinegast under
a lot of pressure. They forced Island into a huge
amount of uncharacterized, thick mistakes, seventeen turnovers. Island were throwing
(05:31):
passes out, passes were hitting the grounds, They gifted will
Jordan a try.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
There was some really really poor skills.
Speaker 5 (05:40):
But I think that was also a reflection of the
way the All Blacks defended and the pressure that they
put on them. And I put that down to their analysis,
because it did really feel like for most of that game,
or large parts of it, that they had worked out
and planned and executed for what Island would bring from
an attacking perspective.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
They did indeed, and you look at some of the
stats and Islands were the most lethal in the opening
two weeks of the Nation's Championship in terms of their
versions once they got into the twenty two. Now they
obviously ended with twenty one points in the end, but
they had eight entries. The All Blacks had nine. The
All Blacks made the most of their entries into the
twenty two and Ireland did not, and that reflects the
(06:22):
All Blacks defense. Ireland probably broke them apart a little
bit too easy for their Jake Conan try in the
first spell to get back to fourteen seven and maybe
if you're really going to be harsh judges when they
scored in the second spell as well. But Ireland were
made it to really work for their points and the
All Blacks just restricted their opportunities. So I think you
(06:43):
look at that and go, that's an All Blacks performance
that shows the way they want to play and what
we've seen over the last three weeks. If we look
at it in totality, Napes is first week probably a
little bit too much ball in hand, second week a
little clumsy, third week a really good balance I thought
between ball in hand, but also kicking. I mean the
(07:03):
All Blacks kicked more than Ireland did on the night
twenty four to fourteen. They're kicked to pass ratio was
a lot tighter than Ireland's was as well. So for
all the talk about not wanting to get into kick
battles as much, they kicked a lot on Saturday night
and they showed that they can play different styles of games.
Speaker 5 (07:23):
Yeah, I think the core of the philosophy is still
there to retain the ball to play with with chase
and tempo and look for that quick ruck speed. But
the message got through, didn't it to vary their game
And I think in Wellington against Italy the All Blacks
kicked four times in the first half and it was
seventeen times at Eden Park.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
And also not just the.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
Kicking, but the way in which they went through the
middle was did did a job on Island. It sucked
in their defense that created space else where. Patrick two
Poloto was massive. Wasn't here for fifty odd minutes in
his first stint for the All Blacks. This season, I
think Ethan de Groot is playing his best rugby for
(08:07):
the All Blacks as well. Some of his softer skills
have been really impressive. But he's bringing a real physicality
both at the scrum and with ball in hands and
then to pro vi on the blind side flank. I'm
still not totally convinced that he is the guy there,
but he was roaming the wide channels using his long
limbs and then in the middle of the park as well.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
So the All Blacks varied their game.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
It wasn't just looking for width all the time because
that becomes predictable, which is what we saw against Italy.
So the ability to adapt and evolve and for grease
week to week and have a clear plan around that
and for everyone to be on the same page, I
think that's really heartening.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
It is indeed, and Lookille Black's just put that pressure
on Island as well. We talked a bit about the
defense in week one. Well, they seem to have found
their defensive system and obviously is going to have to
change game to game with South Africa coming up as well.
But you mentioned the analyst the analysis have done before
Antana Umong his team, Dave Rennie was quick to point
that out post game that they have made some strides
(09:09):
quickly on defense and to punish Ireland like that and
force them into erarors and clutter their mind, a little
bit clutter of the space that Iron wanted to play with.
I think was a testament to the defensive systems that
they've now managed to put in place pretty quickly.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Yeah, I think it was a big step up on defence.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
Luke Jacobson has been a bit of a revelation for
the All Blacks and the way he's defending. Remember one
occasion him holding up for an Irish attacker and gaining a
turnover Quinti Pyre I thought was brilliant. He brought a
lot of pressure defensively and a real physicality, So a
(09:49):
couple of big ticks there. I think there's still room
for improvement on defense. The Elbick's were broken on occasions,
but then you look at the other side of the
fence as well, and some of the All Blacks tries
were really soft. Will Jordan's one was gifted to him
Ardie severe storming over from the back of the scrum
barely untouched five meters out. That's embarrassing for I'm not
(10:12):
sure what the Irish flankers were doing at that point
in time. So look, Dave Rennie admitted himself that There's
a lot more in this All Black team, but that
was certainly a statement performance and I think the other
element to it was the impact they got off the bench.
Losing Cody Taylor after thirty minutes could be quite a setback,
(10:33):
but more was brilliant. Wasn't the ball in hand so destructive?
Dave Rennie himself calling him a beast. Xavier new Mere
was very good as well, and then Caleb Clark late.
I thought he brought a lot of impacts. So that's
what we need to see from the All Blacks bench.
They're going to need to win some tight, tough test
matches soon and they're going to need the impact from
(10:54):
the bench. So I thought that the many elements, many
selections on that bench, and many of the big calls
that Dave Rennie made in terms of Patrick two Polo
too and to paid off absolutely.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
One thing I want to point out was can Royguard's performance,
because I don't think he had his best night and
Ireland really shut him down. I think they positioned themselves
around the ruck really smartly and managed to close off
those lanes that we know Royguard likes to attack, and
inevitably he's going to get one or two a game,
but it felt like he was shut down for a
lot of it. His kicking probably wasn't where it usually is.
(11:28):
But in spite of that, the All Blacks were still
able to get on the front foot. And I think
that's encouraging is that, you know, there's been a lot
made about how important Royguard is to this team, and
there's no doubt that he is very, very important. But
even in spite of maybe personally I don't think he
had his best night, they were still able to find
ways into the game and not having to rely on
(11:48):
him playmaking to spark the attack.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
That's a good point.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
I think it was probably Regard's worst test, to be honest,
distribution wise. I remember a couple our passes very early
on Ruben Love almost having to dive for them to
catch a couple of errant kicks, and yeah, he really
didn't have a great impression on the game at all.
So for the All Blacks to still win in that
fashion with Regards not playing well speaks to a lot
(12:16):
about how much went right. What about Ruben Love three
tests into his test career as a first five for me,
that was his best performance in July?
Speaker 4 (12:27):
What did you make of him.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah, I think he's growing week to week. I think
it's been a smart decision by Dave Ready to give
him all three weeks. In the Test Jumper, you know,
we saw a little bit about him and christ Church
that showed some promise. Wellington was maybe a little bit
of a step back, as it was for the entire team,
but I think this was another leap forward. And you
know that fifty twenty two from the deep pass from
(12:50):
Josh Lord when Loves in the pocket and summing up
the situation very quickly to get that fifty twenty two
which led to a try for the All Blacks, I
thought some shows him summing up the situation really really well.
I probably would have taken him off the park as
soon as he got injured. We haven't heard anything further
around that injury. The fact he played on for a
little bit is probably positive, but I don't think he'd
(13:13):
played the Stormers maybe in a couple of weeks time.
That's going to be interesting to see see how they
respond to that. And I think it was noticeable. And
this isn't maybe going back to neckpicking, but the All
Blacks I think lost some of their shape when Love
did go off and they moved McKenzie into ten and
Jordan back to fullback, that they weren't quite as cohesive,
and that does happen when there are more changes to
(13:34):
a team, but it just did felt like they didn't
quite have the impetus they had when Love was running
the cutter at ten no.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
And that's probably reflective of how well the Love McKenzie
partnership is growing as well, having two genuine playmakers. I
know it's had mixed results when you go back to
Barrett and Mwonga and their dual privot scenario, but I
think what we see with Love and McKenzie is an
understanding and McKenzie does often come into first receiver which
(14:05):
allows Love to swing around the back door and uses
his crew activity and his speed, so I agree. I
don't think Will Jordan fulfills that playmaker role in the
same capacity, so it's probably a nod to how McKenzie
and Love are playing together. What about the officiating, We
don't have to touch on it too long, but there
seems to be a lot of consternation, certainly from Irish
(14:27):
fans about nick Berry's performance, and particularly a lot of
frustration around Luke Jacobson and the fact that that state
a yellow card. It was deemed at the time mitigation.
I think because of where James Ryan was laying in
the ruck and maybe that affected how Luke Jacobson came
into I personally think he was lucky that it wasn't
(14:50):
a twenty minute red card. And then there was the
other incident involving Reubend Love in the air. He did
go off after that, but the Irish fans certainly not
happy with nick Berry's officiating performance.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
No, they're not happy, and they've been joined by South
Africans who have always had a quibble with snick Berry.
I thought that mitigation on the on the Jacobson look
at James Ryan's lying on the wrong side of the ruck.
Then he moves his body as Jacobson's coming in. That
means he can't the arm is tucked in and he
can't fully make the tackle that he wants so the
(15:22):
clean out that he wants to so to be honest,
I thought yellow card was sufficient in that regard.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Love in the ear.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Look, it's probably a fifty to fifty call. They're both
going for the ball, but he does pull him to
the ground. But again look I don't have too much
of an issue with that. I actually thought nick Berry
was by and large okay without being great on the
deliberate knockdowns. You know, to pie flies at the ball,
(15:51):
but also ty Burn is not making any hands to
even try and catch that, so in theory the ball
is about to land on the surface, So I don't
know if it's a deliberate knockdown as such. I think
it's a fear knock on call or even if even
a penalty. But I don't think there's too much much
to quibble about there. You know, he had to be
(16:12):
overruled essentially by his TMO being white House neck Berry
on that front, I don't get this two hands to
the ball scenario because if you're going for and the decept,
you don't carry your hands like that. So we've totally
ruled out the intercept unless you complete it successfully. From
the game, wasn't a deliberate knockdown. I think the complaining
(16:33):
is over the top. There was one as well in
the first half. The All Blacks are up seven to
five around the twenty minute mark, and they're about six
meters away from the line. McKinsey. I think it was
laser backer. It might have been love and there's a
hand that goes in from I think Shean knocks it
down and it was seen as a knock on only
that probably had claims to be a deliberate knockdown as well.
(16:53):
So look, I've said a lot about a fish adding
in the last few weeks on this podcast, but again,
I don't think it was actually that bad from neck
Berry on the night, I think I can live with
most of those calls, to be honest, what about you?
Speaker 5 (17:06):
Yeah, look, it didn't think the result. That's the bottom line.
The All Blacks were far superior to Islands. Even if
Luke Jabison gets twenty minute red cards, the All Blacks
still win in my view, and the deliberate knockdown I
feel was one of the stupidest rules in the game
the way it's officiated. My view of it was that
Quinta Pie is making a genuine attempt to catch the ball,
(17:29):
and I thought common sense prevailed. So yeah, I think
on the whole, Luke Jabison could have could have maybe
should have been red carded just because of the contact
that was made. So it didn't look good and it
also really let Alan off the hook. The All Blacks
were hot on attack, peppering Island's line and probably score
if that's not called back. So that would change the
(17:53):
complexion of the game, but it does not change the result.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
No, And you don't want to take those moments out
of the game. Look, I don't think the pie was
actually too far away from making a success or catch.
If he reels in them with one hand, then we're
talking about a spectacular player who knows how it ends up.
But you don't want to take those moments out of
the game where you do have a player flying out
of the line trying to make a play that could
be turn into a try. That's what we watched rugby
(18:16):
for is that that high entertainment. And it feels like
there are some facets of the game now and fans
if you look on Twitter, that are trying to watch
everything with the hawkeye and more intent on games being
judged correctly than watching it for the entertainment factor. So
we kind of need to stamp that out of the game.
I think Napes, where do you sit now? There are a
few questions coming up in the final four, but as
(18:36):
we look ahead to South Africa, what kind of shape
of the all Blacks in as they prepare for that
eight game, two of four of which are tests. Perhaps
compared to where they were end of November last year.
Speaker 5 (18:49):
Yeah, and a vastly better place, Elliott, if you can.
I had grave fears for this team at the back
end of last year and I think that's part of
the reason that change was made because you Rugby are
very nervous about the state of the team internally, the
lack of.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
Progression and improvement week to week. Look Deal Blacks.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
You can't get away from the fact this is the
most daunting assignment of the professional era for the All Blacks.
It's the first time they'll go and undertake a tour
of South Africa like this for thirty years, and it's
going to be brutal. There's no getting away from that.
Playing games every four days. South Africa have incredible depth.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
You know.
Speaker 5 (19:35):
Russia Rasmus changes his Springbok team every week and puts
out a b team still beats Scotland and Wales convincingly.
So it's going to be a brutal, brutal assignments to
win one test, let alone the series.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
But I'm Hearten's.
Speaker 5 (19:55):
I think on the basis of what I've seen from
this All Black team, and I also think I'm of
the mind now that I think this tour is going
to be really good for Deil Blacks. I think Dave
Rennie's got the cultural piece rights. Everyone from what I
can gather anyway, seems a lot more unified and certainly
(20:16):
connected and just clear on the way in which they
want to play the game. That doesn't guarantee they're going
to go well in South Africa, but I think they're
in a much better place. And also just the ability
for any team to spend seven weeks on the road,
I think they'll get the balance right between rugby and
enjoying the country, whether it be a brae or the
(20:37):
odd Safari or something like that. Dave any picking up
the guitar, I think that will bring them closer together.
The ability to take forty four players away on tour
to give them genuine game time to build depth. Bill
Blacks will no doubt lose some key players to injuries,
but I think this tour will only improve this All
Black team.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
I agree, Yeah, I think they're in a much better
shape than they were back end of last year.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
You can just see it around the team. But also
the way they're playing.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
On the part, there is a shape to their attacking patterns,
there is a shape to the defense, and yeah, I
think I go with a little bit of optimism. There
is a very very daunting tour. But I think heartening,
as you said, there is that the right word. If
these are the kind of games that Dave Rennie can make.
Having had ten days before the first test with the
team to where they are now, you know, less than
(21:29):
a month later, then I think there are some more
strides that this team can make. Whether it'll come as
quickly as they can in South Africa, whether it's down
the track, but I feel there is a lot of
growth in this team and I'm you know, optimism has
been the buzzword of July for this All Blacks team,
and you know, I'm beginning to feel it on the
basis of what we've seen over the last three weeks. Nates,
(21:51):
before we take a quick break on rkby direct anything
else that stood out from the weekend. You know, big
win for the Australians against Italy, we had England beat
Argentina and some controversial circumstances. What were the other standout
moments from the weekend? For you.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
It was a wild game, wasn't it. Was it seven
yellow cats?
Speaker 5 (22:11):
Yeah, yeah, and Argentinian players coming pretty close to making
physical altercation with the referee near the end of the game,
the Storm storming out of his press conference postmatch because
he wasn't happy that Englan playing their music too loud.
(22:32):
So there's no love lost between those two teams. So
that that was a wild old game. I think the
spring Box starting a rookie ten and you know, changing
their team massively, still being Wales forty three NL. So yeah,
some big results and Joe Schmitts ten. You're finishing on
a positive note because that's no no mean feat to
(22:55):
put a score like that on on Italy. So yeah,
it's been I've enjoyed the Nation's Championship. I like the format.
You know, it's not great for the carbon footprint, it's necessarily,
but I do like that. It's been refreshing, hasn't it
to see teams play different teams every week.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
I think it's been a welcome site.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Yeah, it has been. It's been. It's been good.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
I think there's been you know, the tours that they
had previously weren't quite tours. We saw that well with
last year with France not sending their best players. I
think now the three weeks different opponents every time has added,
you know, a lot more context to the competition. You're
you're looking at to see what the opponents did last
week as you head into the next week. So I
(23:42):
think by and large it's been been a step forward
for rugby as we pause the Nation's Championship ahead of
the November window, and indeed we'll take a quick pause
here on Rugby Direct back with more after this time.
Now for our final four napes for rugby topics. First one,
rate the All Blacks July window out of ten from me. Now,
traditionally you're a very tough markut, so I'm very intrigued
(24:04):
to see how you go here.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
This is Jerry Elliott, get the black marker.
Speaker 5 (24:09):
No, I'm going to go a seven, solid seven on
the basis of what we saw on Saturday. Would have
been a lot lower had they not raised the bar.
But it was look I think from an attack point
of view alone, from where they were last year to
where they are now a world's apart, isn't it in
terms of everyone being on the same page and the
(24:32):
team actually creating things rather than relying on individuals to spark.
We've seen improvements I think under the high ball as well,
which was one massive achilles and I think we've seen
individuals progress in a big way.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
So a solid seven for me, Earliott Younge.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
You'm always a softer market than you are, so I'm
going seven and a half. Big strides forwards. You can
see the way the All Blacks want to play now,
which wasn't evident towards the back end of last year
when they were clunky and you said relying on individual brilliance.
I think there's more growth to come in this team,
but I think there's been some big markers both on
(25:11):
a selection basis but also a game plan basis that
weren't there last year. So to go back to that,
will we years before the break optimism? Yeah, I think
there's a lot to like as we hit into the
next part, topic number two. Well, the thirty four players
who were in the July Nations Championship squad all hit
South Africa and if so, who are the other ten
(25:32):
that will join the squads? Two part question their napes?
Speaker 5 (25:37):
I think they will, Eliert, we didn't see everyone O No,
Kyle Preston, Simon Parker, Boden Barrett didn't see any game time,
so maybe those would be the guys in question, unless
there's any major injuries, which doesn't sound like there are.
It sounds like Artist Severe will have a late start,
maybe sit out the first few weeks and join the
(25:59):
All Blacks after because he's played eighteen months to rugby,
will have a rest. But Cody Taylor and Reuben Love
don't sound like they're too serious, so I don't see
any one else else dropping out, and then yeah, you're
adding another ten players. I think I'm not too sure
about leicsterfying A Nooko's status, but if he's available, you'd
think he would come in. Fabian Holland will be there,
(26:19):
probably Riquijuane. I think you'd need another hooker and half back,
so you're probably looking at a Noah Hotham and maybe
a George Bell and then you'll need another prop, so
whether it's an Olie Norris or I think the Hurricanes
tight head prop Lowarchy, I think he could be in
the mix as a bit of a bolter for a
(26:40):
tight head, and then maybe other guys like Tavi Tavanaua
so I don't think there'll be too many bolters. Maybe
a Lucas Casey gets to look him. I know he
was part of the pre Super Rugby finalists camp the
All Blacks heads and there are a couple of other
other crusaders, of course because they didn't made the final,
Elliott just in case you didn't remember, So I think.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
I'd think those guys would be in the max. What
of it you see any bolts from the blue Well?
Speaker 3 (27:10):
I saw an interesting piece from our colleague Paul Cully
on the post over the weekend calling for Samessi to
Porte Law to be selected. He's signed with Southland, I believe,
once again for the NPC, and I'm not sure where
his Super Rugby feature is that might need to be
tidied up before that happens. He's been a player of
immense promise at Mowana Pacifica for the last couple of years,
(27:34):
no longer of course attached to them, so the question
mark he shouldn't theory be fully eligible for the All Blacks,
which he wouldn't have been had Mowana still been alive
and he was contracted to them. So I think he's
an intriguing option. I'm just not sure whether he falls
into the big fish small pond sort of size of
Mowana Pacifica, how he would go at a different New
(27:57):
Zealand franchise. I've got that question mark, but I've always
been impressed by him. But I kind of agree on
most of your selections, and I'm not sure there's a
room for an out and out bolter ten players though
I think Renni mentioned maybe a seven to three sort
of split, or maybe a six to four in terms
of forwards v back, so similar players to you. You've
probably got a Norris, Maybe you take an extra proper
(28:19):
a dire Ta Vita Muffalo, Maybe offer Tonga Farsi just
for a bit of midweek leadership. George Boll, Fabian Hond,
Jamie Hannah probably in the mix. Does double Skrifi get
a nod A Tory in Varnes maybe or a tay
Law and then Hotham Ricco Yuwani would suspect you'd expect
will be one of those ten players, and yere I
(28:42):
think Luke lessifying Onnooki is probably out given that the
length of time, But if he's making a fast recovery,
absolutely he goes. But maybe an Isaac Hutchison or a
shay Fie Harky potentially for some some extracover in the backs.
I don't know, but I tend to agree that these
are probably going to players that have been in and
around the All Blacks environment previously.
Speaker 5 (29:04):
Yeah, Jamie Hannah is a good shout, but well Fabian
Holham coming back, I'm not sure if you need two
more locks. So look, it's gonna be a great opportunity
to build depth, isn't it. Dave Reni's already talked about
how much planning in preparation they've put into this tour.
They've picked the first four games, which I think at
the top of we had a three against the domestic
(29:26):
franchises in the first test, so clearly mapping everything out.
It's for twenty three man squads, so they seem well
prepared and it's gonna be a great opportunity to build
genuine camaraderie. You think about a standard Northern Tour, there's
(29:46):
plenty of players who might play one test, might get
ten minutes off the bench. Well, you're gonna have to
rotate heavily in South Africa and so all these guys
are going to get game time and I think that
will give you real squad buying.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Yeah, I think so so and Mike Bleia, it was
interesting hearing from him yesterday morning, the day after the
All Blacks game, he fronted media and he was on
the two th a nine British and Irish lions to
it and said, you know, that was quite useful because basically,
just going from game to game, you have a lot
of time to think about it. You're playing a lot
of rugby and you really get close and you really
(30:21):
get a lot of camaraderie. As you said, so, I
think this is going to be good for the All
Black spending that much time away on a proper to it.
I'm going to be fascinated to see how it unfolds
on that topic. Three, Are there any spots and say
the run on side that are still up for grabs
as we heard the South Africa.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
Yes, I think there are.
Speaker 5 (30:41):
I think blindside continues to be the perennial question to provide.
Probably staked his claim at the weekends, but I think
that still remains contestable. I think the left wing Josh
Morby did well with the Weekends and he's clearly impressed
and his two tests so far with his anticipation. He
(31:02):
was good under the high ball, but I think that's
still relatively contestable, and I think one locking spot is
up for grabs as well. I think that the front
row potentially tight head between Fletch Neil and Tyrol Lomax,
who's quite injury prone, isn't he.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
And I think the hookers, well, Cody Taylor will start.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
I think Suffer Armour is pushing really hard for more
game time there. And the composition of the bench, I
think Delbaks are still working out quite where to go
with that.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Yeah, I'd agree, and look, I'm is playing some great rugby,
but I think you keep him on the bench. I
think he is the perfect player to play those kind
of minutes. And whether it is you know, maybe there
is a bit of innovation that can come in here,
and maybe it is Cody Taylor plays the first third
and then you get more coming on ten minutes before
(31:58):
halftime as players from the opposition, and you know, looking
forward sucking the big ones, looking forward to that halftime break,
you get oh moreer going there. I think there are
ways you can be smart about playing. That's what we
saw on the weekend and how dangerous. He could come
on before half time, will be it through Taylor injury.
So I like the way that he comes off the
bench and adds that sort of impact. I think to
(32:19):
Pie as you're starting thirteen, I've still got a couple
of defensive questions over him, but I think he's the
guy to start in those big tests against South Africa
to provide that'll probably mix and match, but I suspect
he'll start in the blind side for those test matches there,
in which case, you know, it's kind of interesting to
see the way they go for the second road, whether
it is a toy plot who starting scenario, because if
(32:42):
you have Vay starting, then maybe you don't need to
pilot too on the bench where he's become accustomed to
for a couple of seasons. Out really done quite well
off the all blacks bench there. So there's some fascinating
threads to follow. The other one being as well Mapes
that I asked Steve Renny and the media conference last
week around the bench scenario, and he suggested that maybe
(33:03):
we'll look at a six to two bench for one
of those tour games at the very least, which will
be interesting to see how how they map that out,
won't it They will?
Speaker 5 (33:13):
Yeah, look they'll It'll be interesting because they'll want to
try things, but they also want to keep some things
up their sleeves. So there'd be a bit of foxing
in those tour games because you're not going to want
to reveal your your set piece struck moves, but you're
going to be wanting to trial certain combinations and different.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Elements of your games.
Speaker 5 (33:35):
So it's going to be a tricky juggling act in
that regard as well.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Certainly is right.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Topic number four slight diversion of sorts on the Final four.
Joe Schmitt's Wallaby's tenure comes to and end after the
nation's championship Le's kiss, tacking over for the next block
of tests that the Wallabies have. How would you judge
his tenure? Let's say out of ten and would you
consider it a success?
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Yeah? Out of ten.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
It's tough, isn't it, because it was a real turbulent
ride and results alone you would say not great. But
you've got to consider where the Wallaby started. So look,
i'll give them six and a half. Maybe you go
back to that line. They could have easily won the
home British and Irish line series and they do that,
that completely changes the complexion of your tenure. Look, I
(34:24):
think Joe, there's no doubt joshmat improved the Wallabies and
their set piece has come a long way. I think
certain combinations that they have a clear plan about the
way they want to go about things. But Australian rugga
just really lacks depth and that's such a handbrake, whether.
Speaker 4 (34:42):
That be at first five or in the front row.
Speaker 5 (34:46):
They've got some handy outside backs, but their depth is
a real problem and that's something you're not going to
fix overnight. But he started at such a low ebb
Joe Schmidt, and he really did rebuild the Wallaby's confidence.
They just couldn't maintain it for long enough. Like the
British and Irish lines was their peak, and then they
(35:07):
faded badly at the back end that year. They probably
should have been an island in their first match in July.
If they do that, then they start to the Nation's
Championship looks very different. They faded badly against France and
then finished well against Italy. So look, it's a tough
gig for Lesis Kiss taking over and I will be
(35:28):
surprised if he achieves a great deal more than what
Joe did.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Yeah, I would probably market a six out of ten.
There were some peaks, There were some troughs, as there
are with every rugby coach, bar the all time greats.
But you know, you think back and there was that
fantastic when it took it him end of twenty twenty four,
which was an incredible moment, that last minute try where
(35:53):
they won the game in incredible fashion. But there were
some really black moments as well. Sorry, another good moment
as you mentioned, you know that Lions series. They probably
should have won the series. As you said, they go
to Alice Park atting into sixty odd year losing record
the year. But there were some bleak moments as well.
They had almost seventy put on them in Argentina and
(36:14):
twenty twenty four there were some muddled selections, didn't really
get close to winning the bledders Low Cup. Had a
close run against the All Blacks last year and a
close game the year before at Stadium Australia, but that
was probably the All Blacks bundling. It are dropping their
bundle more than anything. Last year's end of Tour Interview
two was really messy or well beaten by Irelands, well
(36:36):
beaten by England. So I think it'll be remembered for
some muddled selections by and large. And ye, look he
did improve things because they were at such a low
yeb after that twenty three World Cup and what Eddie
Jones did. But I just don't think that the Wallaby's
depth suited him given what he'd come from from Ireland
(36:58):
not too far previously, and that all black stint as well.
I think he was not found out necessarily, but I
think a little bit just it was harder for him
to work to what he knew when he didn't have
the depth of some of those countries. So yeah, probably
a six out of ten, but I can't see Lescus
improving things. That's quickly. That'll about do us for Rugby Direct.
(37:22):
Did want to just mention though, before we do wrap up,
there's a text sorry tweeked last week that we didn't
get to. I meant to get it to us on Thursday,
but I didn't get to it. This is from Dan
Barr on Twitter. Lad Jah Potter is the best balance
of technical analysis and neutral opinion out the year. What
do you reckon? Better balance? Loose trio of six Parkers
seven eight. Larkey switched via six later on bring on Signa.
(37:47):
What are your thoughts on that we didn't see Parker
at all in these last three weeks.
Speaker 5 (37:53):
No, personally, I wasn't completely sold on some Parker. I
think he's a big body. He he's good defensively. He
had moments in Super Rugby, but I don't think he
played as well as he did the year before. I
think he doesn't offer as much with ball in hand.
He's good at the line out, but I don't think
(38:15):
he's a real compelling prospect to fulfill that Jersey long term.
That's just my personal opinion to pou Via, I think
look at work well on Saturday nights, but I think
there's still that's still very contestable. And for me, Tupo
has played his best rugby for the All Blacks from Locke.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
He brings a different dynamic.
Speaker 5 (38:39):
He compliments I think Ardie Severe and Luke Jacobson in
some capacities. But I think you also sacrifice a bit
of speed off the scrum defensively and to the breakdown
where that's not his strength. So there's no no perfect
solution here, but between Parker and Via I would go via.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Yeah, I in you speak convinced that Parker as well.
I think he brings the size the All Black swamp,
but I'm not sure he's the kind of player necessarily
that does for things they want on a rugby field,
and that maybe speaks to the fact that we didn't
see him in July. We will certainly see him against
the Stormers, I would suspect, but I think he needs
(39:23):
to take some step forwards around his ball playing abilities
if he's going to be a regular starting six for
the All Blacks. So I think the jury's out on him.
Would like to see a bit more. Maybe he should
have played against certainly potentially had a role there just
to get him some rugby. But maybe he gets back
a week for the NPC, potentially before the All Blacks
(39:43):
fly out. Actually I think they might fly it before
that first week in the NPC, But regardless, he will
get some game time on this tour and a chance
to impress the All Blacks coaches. How about does us
for Rugby Direct? We will be back on Thursday with
a special episode. We've got cams to a four Blues.
Ford's former MULDI All Black former All Blacks fifteen player
joining us on the podcast. We recorded this last week.
(40:05):
Cams to a fower, incredible human going through incredibly tough
battle at the moment, as you would know, with terminal
cancer sarcoma. We recorded this last week Lovely Blow Kim
and his wife Britt came in recorded this podcast with him.
It's a pretty special episode, isn't it, Napes and looking
forward to releasing that episode a bit later on this week.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (40:28):
Look, it's a bloody tough conversation to have somebody struggling
through terminal cancer, but quite inspiring as well. I think
the way Cam's facing it, his positivity and optimism and
the way in which he's still going about helping people. Yeah,
very very inspiring guy. So look forward to sharing that
(40:49):
chat with it everyone. And just a quick shout out Elliott's.
The weekend, the Fox and Seniors and Reserves both won
the Hot of Final Company Championships. So title town in
Wellington and Fox and So life doesn't get much better.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Okay, that's good, very good congratulations, A lot of success
for that part of the world.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
At the moment.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Just need to bring it back to Red and Black Country.
A set if you can have one year and then
we'll just reset things next year and Scott Hansen, we
trust that'll about do us for Rugby Direct, as I
said back on Thursday with a special app and we'll be.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Back next part of the week after that.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
All Black Sport Fall South Africa is named thanks to
Mark Kelly for producing and to Access Solutions for elevating
you and your business to a higher living.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
For more from News Talk st B, listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Straight down the middle of Trust, try.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
To get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby
Direct with Elliott Smith and Liam Napier, powered by News
Talks EDB.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Access Solutions, elevating you
and your business to a higher level. The Nation's Championship
July window done and dusted. Elliott Smith with me Liam
Napier to reflect on the All Blacks campaign and the
rest of it. Nate's greetings, Welcome in to Rugby Directors.
(01:01):
We settle into a risk week of sorts after a
hectic three weeks.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
That's right book for sauna.
Speaker 5 (01:10):
We'll do some hot colds and refresh and get ready
to go again after what's been very intriguing three weeks,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
It has been?
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Indeed, let's get into Saturday night the All Blacks forty.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Twenty one over Ireland.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Your top one reflections on that game, Napes.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
I think it was a massive step forward, wasn't it, Elliott?
Speaker 5 (01:31):
Certainly the most complete performance we've seen of the first
three outings from Dave Renny's All Blacks big progressions.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
I think in the balance of their attack. I think
their defense improved.
Speaker 5 (01:45):
They were a lot more direct, they kicked more, and
you know, they probably it's been a wee bit harsh potentially,
but I felt like they could have put fifty Islands
the second half. There was a few chances Island came
back a little bit, but they're up twenty eight seven
at halftime. By that point the game's done, so Fortress
(02:07):
Eden park another fifty third notch, consecutive notch on the
belt there, and I think it really did portray the
starkly contrasting trajectories of Ireland and the All Blacks as well.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah, I'd agree with that look.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Heading into it, I didn't feel that Island had what
it takes to stick with us All Black side for
eighty minutes, and we hadn't seen the full array of
what the All Blacks potentially are capable of in the
first two weeks. But I just felt that Island was
on a trajectory downwards, even though they hadn't had to
travel beyond Australia for the first two weeks of the competition,
even though they rested a lot of players I just
(02:45):
feel that Ireland have hit their ceiling and are on
the way backwards. And that's reflected in the fact that
they probably peaked in twenty twenty two, a year too
early for the Rugby World Cup, went and lost to
the All Blacks, of course in the quarterfinals, and have
lost to them each year since. And I just felt
that the All Blacks no longer fear Island potentially as
(03:05):
they might have done after that series twenty twenty two.
I think the All Blacks have been on the upwards
trajectory over the last couple of weeks. Now that's not
to say the All Blacks, you know, were perfect, but
I just did feel heading into the game that you know,
the All Blacks would win. I think, I said by
ten points on Thursday, very good All Blacks performance. When
(03:26):
they were on, they were on. They made the most
of several opportunities in the first spell. Had they converted
the opportunity inside the twenty two at fourteen nil up
when Luke Jacobson cleared out the Irish lock sorry Josh
Wonderfleer with with James Ryan in the way, it might
well have been twenty one nil. Essentially, it was game
(03:46):
over at halftime at twenty eight seven either way, but
I do tend to agree that they probably could have
beaten Island by more. So it was a statement of swords,
but perhaps not the full statement from this All Blacks team.
Speaker 5 (04:00):
Yeah, it's hard to be too picky, isn't it When
you put forty points on Island, score six trays to three,
and so many elements of your game show vastly more
promise and progression, but.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
You always want more for the All Blacks.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
So I think you're right they left some points out
there and they could have been more ruthless in.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
The way that they finished them off.
Speaker 5 (04:20):
Just going back to what you're saying there about Islands
and the All Blacks now having won the last four
encounters to really reshape the nature of this rivalry. I
think if you go back four years ago two Ireland's
first series win in New Zealand's they really picked apart
the All Blacks their attacking game, their short passing game.
(04:42):
Johnny Sexton was the faulkrum then, but the All Blacks
didn't have a lot of answers defensively, they were really
exposed and I think what we're seeing now is the
All Blacks have worked Ireland out to a point they
know what's coming, and there's multiple reasons for that. Dave
Rennie Spence a couple of years in Glasgow, so he
would have had close proximity to Ireland's Jeordie Barrett and
(05:07):
Riqulwhani had both been up there for six months since,
and a number of US All Black team have faced
Island regularly, and so I think they knew it was coming,
and that did seem evident in the way they defended.
They flooded the passing lanes, They put Sam Prinegast under
a lot of pressure. They forced Island into a huge
amount of uncharacterized, thick mistakes, seventeen turnovers. Island were throwing
(05:31):
passes out, passes were hitting the grounds, They gifted will
Jordan a try.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
There was some really really poor skills.
Speaker 5 (05:40):
But I think that was also a reflection of the
way the All Blacks defended and the pressure that they
put on them. And I put that down to their analysis,
because it did really feel like for most of that game,
or large parts of it, that they had worked out
and planned and executed for what Island would bring from
an attacking perspective.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
They did indeed, and you look at some of the
stats and Islands were the most lethal in the opening
two weeks of the Nation's Championship in terms of their
versions once they got into the twenty two. Now they
obviously ended with twenty one points in the end, but
they had eight entries. The All Blacks had nine. The
All Blacks made the most of their entries into the
twenty two and Ireland did not, and that reflects the
(06:22):
All Blacks defense. Ireland probably broke them apart a little
bit too easy for their Jake Conan try in the
first spell to get back to fourteen seven and maybe
if you're really going to be harsh judges when they
scored in the second spell as well. But Ireland were
made it to really work for their points and the
All Blacks just restricted their opportunities. So I think you
(06:43):
look at that and go, that's an All Blacks performance
that shows the way they want to play and what
we've seen over the last three weeks. If we look
at it in totality, Napes is first week probably a
little bit too much ball in hand, second week a
little clumsy, third week a really good balance I thought
between ball in hand, but also kicking. I mean the
(07:03):
All Blacks kicked more than Ireland did on the night
twenty four to fourteen. They're kicked to pass ratio was
a lot tighter than Ireland's was as well. So for
all the talk about not wanting to get into kick
battles as much, they kicked a lot on Saturday night
and they showed that they can play different styles of games.
Speaker 5 (07:23):
Yeah, I think the core of the philosophy is still
there to retain the ball to play with with chase
and tempo and look for that quick ruck speed. But
the message got through, didn't it to vary their game
And I think in Wellington against Italy the All Blacks
kicked four times in the first half and it was
seventeen times at Eden Park.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
And also not just the.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
Kicking, but the way in which they went through the
middle was did did a job on Island. It sucked
in their defense that created space else where. Patrick two
Poloto was massive. Wasn't here for fifty odd minutes in
his first stint for the All Blacks. This season, I
think Ethan de Groot is playing his best rugby for
(08:07):
the All Blacks as well. Some of his softer skills
have been really impressive. But he's bringing a real physicality
both at the scrum and with ball in hands and
then to pro vi on the blind side flank. I'm
still not totally convinced that he is the guy there,
but he was roaming the wide channels using his long
limbs and then in the middle of the park as well.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
So the All Blacks varied their game.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
It wasn't just looking for width all the time because
that becomes predictable, which is what we saw against Italy.
So the ability to adapt and evolve and for grease
week to week and have a clear plan around that
and for everyone to be on the same page, I
think that's really heartening.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
It is indeed, and Lookille Black's just put that pressure
on Island as well. We talked a bit about the
defense in week one. Well, they seem to have found
their defensive system and obviously is going to have to
change game to game with South Africa coming up as well.
But you mentioned the analyst the analysis have done before
Antana Umong his team, Dave Rennie was quick to point
that out post game that they have made some strides
(09:09):
quickly on defense and to punish Ireland like that and
force them into erarors and clutter their mind, a little
bit clutter of the space that Iron wanted to play with.
I think was a testament to the defensive systems that
they've now managed to put in place pretty quickly.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Yeah, I think it was a big step up on defence.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
Luke Jacobson has been a bit of a revelation for
the All Blacks and the way he's defending. Remember one
occasion him holding up for an Irish attacker and gaining a
turnover Quinti Pyre I thought was brilliant. He brought a
lot of pressure defensively and a real physicality, So a
(09:49):
couple of big ticks there. I think there's still room
for improvement on defense. The Elbick's were broken on occasions,
but then you look at the other side of the
fence as well, and some of the All Blacks tries
were really soft. Will Jordan's one was gifted to him
Ardie severe storming over from the back of the scrum
barely untouched five meters out. That's embarrassing for I'm not
(10:12):
sure what the Irish flankers were doing at that point
in time. So look, Dave Rennie admitted himself that There's
a lot more in this All Black team, but that
was certainly a statement performance and I think the other
element to it was the impact they got off the bench.
Losing Cody Taylor after thirty minutes could be quite a setback,
(10:33):
but more was brilliant. Wasn't the ball in hand so destructive?
Dave Rennie himself calling him a beast. Xavier new Mere
was very good as well, and then Caleb Clark late.
I thought he brought a lot of impacts. So that's
what we need to see from the All Blacks bench.
They're going to need to win some tight, tough test
matches soon and they're going to need the impact from
(10:54):
the bench. So I thought that the many elements, many
selections on that bench, and many of the big calls
that Dave Rennie made in terms of Patrick two Polo
too and to paid off absolutely.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
One thing I want to point out was can Royguard's performance,
because I don't think he had his best night and
Ireland really shut him down. I think they positioned themselves
around the ruck really smartly and managed to close off
those lanes that we know Royguard likes to attack, and
inevitably he's going to get one or two a game,
but it felt like he was shut down for a
lot of it. His kicking probably wasn't where it usually is.
(11:28):
But in spite of that, the All Blacks were still
able to get on the front foot. And I think
that's encouraging is that, you know, there's been a lot
made about how important Royguard is to this team, and
there's no doubt that he is very, very important. But
even in spite of maybe personally I don't think he
had his best night, they were still able to find
ways into the game and not having to rely on
(11:48):
him playmaking to spark the attack.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
That's a good point.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
I think it was probably Regard's worst test, to be honest,
distribution wise. I remember a couple our passes very early
on Ruben Love almost having to dive for them to
catch a couple of errant kicks, and yeah, he really
didn't have a great impression on the game at all.
So for the All Blacks to still win in that
fashion with Regards not playing well speaks to a lot
(12:16):
about how much went right. What about Ruben Love three
tests into his test career as a first five for me,
that was his best performance in July?
Speaker 4 (12:27):
What did you make of him.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah, I think he's growing week to week. I think
it's been a smart decision by Dave Ready to give
him all three weeks. In the Test Jumper, you know,
we saw a little bit about him and christ Church
that showed some promise. Wellington was maybe a little bit
of a step back, as it was for the entire team,
but I think this was another leap forward. And you
know that fifty twenty two from the deep pass from
(12:50):
Josh Lord when Loves in the pocket and summing up
the situation very quickly to get that fifty twenty two
which led to a try for the All Blacks, I
thought some shows him summing up the situation really really well.
I probably would have taken him off the park as
soon as he got injured. We haven't heard anything further
around that injury. The fact he played on for a
little bit is probably positive, but I don't think he'd
(13:13):
played the Stormers maybe in a couple of weeks time.
That's going to be interesting to see see how they
respond to that. And I think it was noticeable. And
this isn't maybe going back to neckpicking, but the All
Blacks I think lost some of their shape when Love
did go off and they moved McKenzie into ten and
Jordan back to fullback, that they weren't quite as cohesive,
and that does happen when there are more changes to
(13:34):
a team, but it just did felt like they didn't
quite have the impetus they had when Love was running
the cutter at ten no.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
And that's probably reflective of how well the Love McKenzie
partnership is growing as well, having two genuine playmakers. I
know it's had mixed results when you go back to
Barrett and Mwonga and their dual privot scenario, but I
think what we see with Love and McKenzie is an
understanding and McKenzie does often come into first receiver which
(14:05):
allows Love to swing around the back door and uses
his crew activity and his speed, so I agree. I
don't think Will Jordan fulfills that playmaker role in the
same capacity, so it's probably a nod to how McKenzie
and Love are playing together. What about the officiating, We
don't have to touch on it too long, but there
seems to be a lot of consternation, certainly from Irish
(14:27):
fans about nick Berry's performance, and particularly a lot of
frustration around Luke Jacobson and the fact that that state
a yellow card. It was deemed at the time mitigation.
I think because of where James Ryan was laying in
the ruck and maybe that affected how Luke Jacobson came
into I personally think he was lucky that it wasn't
(14:50):
a twenty minute red card. And then there was the
other incident involving Reubend Love in the air. He did
go off after that, but the Irish fans certainly not
happy with nick Berry's officiating performance.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
No, they're not happy, and they've been joined by South
Africans who have always had a quibble with snick Berry.
I thought that mitigation on the on the Jacobson look
at James Ryan's lying on the wrong side of the ruck.
Then he moves his body as Jacobson's coming in. That
means he can't the arm is tucked in and he
can't fully make the tackle that he wants so the
(15:22):
clean out that he wants to so to be honest,
I thought yellow card was sufficient in that regard.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Love in the ear.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Look, it's probably a fifty to fifty call. They're both
going for the ball, but he does pull him to
the ground. But again look I don't have too much
of an issue with that. I actually thought nick Berry
was by and large okay without being great on the
deliberate knockdowns. You know, to pie flies at the ball,
(15:51):
but also ty Burn is not making any hands to
even try and catch that, so in theory the ball
is about to land on the surface, So I don't
know if it's a deliberate knockdown as such. I think
it's a fear knock on call or even if even
a penalty. But I don't think there's too much much
to quibble about there. You know, he had to be
(16:12):
overruled essentially by his TMO being white House neck Berry
on that front, I don't get this two hands to
the ball scenario because if you're going for and the decept,
you don't carry your hands like that. So we've totally
ruled out the intercept unless you complete it successfully. From
the game, wasn't a deliberate knockdown. I think the complaining
(16:33):
is over the top. There was one as well in
the first half. The All Blacks are up seven to
five around the twenty minute mark, and they're about six
meters away from the line. McKinsey. I think it was
laser backer. It might have been love and there's a
hand that goes in from I think Shean knocks it
down and it was seen as a knock on only
that probably had claims to be a deliberate knockdown as well.
(16:53):
So look, I've said a lot about a fish adding
in the last few weeks on this podcast, but again,
I don't think it was actually that bad from neck
Berry on the night, I think I can live with
most of those calls, to be honest, what about you?
Speaker 5 (17:06):
Yeah, look, it didn't think the result. That's the bottom line.
The All Blacks were far superior to Islands. Even if
Luke Jabison gets twenty minute red cards, the All Blacks
still win in my view, and the deliberate knockdown I
feel was one of the stupidest rules in the game
the way it's officiated. My view of it was that
Quinta Pie is making a genuine attempt to catch the ball,
(17:29):
and I thought common sense prevailed. So yeah, I think
on the whole, Luke Jabison could have could have maybe
should have been red carded just because of the contact
that was made. So it didn't look good and it
also really let Alan off the hook. The All Blacks
were hot on attack, peppering Island's line and probably score
if that's not called back. So that would change the
(17:53):
complexion of the game, but it does not change the result.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
No, And you don't want to take those moments out
of the game. Look, I don't think the pie was
actually too far away from making a success or catch.
If he reels in them with one hand, then we're
talking about a spectacular player who knows how it ends up.
But you don't want to take those moments out of
the game where you do have a player flying out
of the line trying to make a play that could
be turn into a try. That's what we watched rugby
(18:16):
for is that that high entertainment. And it feels like
there are some facets of the game now and fans
if you look on Twitter, that are trying to watch
everything with the hawkeye and more intent on games being
judged correctly than watching it for the entertainment factor. So
we kind of need to stamp that out of the game.
I think Napes, where do you sit now? There are a
few questions coming up in the final four, but as
(18:36):
we look ahead to South Africa, what kind of shape
of the all Blacks in as they prepare for that
eight game, two of four of which are tests. Perhaps
compared to where they were end of November last year.
Speaker 5 (18:49):
Yeah, and a vastly better place, Elliott, if you can.
I had grave fears for this team at the back
end of last year and I think that's part of
the reason that change was made because you Rugby are
very nervous about the state of the team internally, the
lack of.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
Progression and improvement week to week. Look Deal Blacks.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
You can't get away from the fact this is the
most daunting assignment of the professional era for the All Blacks.
It's the first time they'll go and undertake a tour
of South Africa like this for thirty years, and it's
going to be brutal. There's no getting away from that.
Playing games every four days. South Africa have incredible depth.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
You know.
Speaker 5 (19:35):
Russia Rasmus changes his Springbok team every week and puts
out a b team still beats Scotland and Wales convincingly.
So it's going to be a brutal, brutal assignments to
win one test, let alone the series.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
But I'm Hearten's.
Speaker 5 (19:55):
I think on the basis of what I've seen from
this All Black team, and I also think I'm of
the mind now that I think this tour is going
to be really good for Deil Blacks. I think Dave
Rennie's got the cultural piece rights. Everyone from what I
can gather anyway, seems a lot more unified and certainly
(20:16):
connected and just clear on the way in which they
want to play the game. That doesn't guarantee they're going
to go well in South Africa, but I think they're
in a much better place. And also just the ability
for any team to spend seven weeks on the road,
I think they'll get the balance right between rugby and
enjoying the country, whether it be a brae or the
(20:37):
odd Safari or something like that. Dave any picking up
the guitar, I think that will bring them closer together.
The ability to take forty four players away on tour
to give them genuine game time to build depth. Bill
Blacks will no doubt lose some key players to injuries,
but I think this tour will only improve this All
Black team.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
I agree, Yeah, I think they're in a much better
shape than they were back end of last year.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
You can just see it around the team. But also
the way they're playing.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
On the part, there is a shape to their attacking patterns,
there is a shape to the defense, and yeah, I
think I go with a little bit of optimism. There
is a very very daunting tour. But I think heartening,
as you said, there is that the right word. If
these are the kind of games that Dave Rennie can make.
Having had ten days before the first test with the
team to where they are now, you know, less than
(21:29):
a month later, then I think there are some more
strides that this team can make. Whether it'll come as
quickly as they can in South Africa, whether it's down
the track, but I feel there is a lot of
growth in this team and I'm you know, optimism has
been the buzzword of July for this All Blacks team,
and you know, I'm beginning to feel it on the
basis of what we've seen over the last three weeks. Nates,
(21:51):
before we take a quick break on rkby direct anything
else that stood out from the weekend. You know, big
win for the Australians against Italy, we had England beat
Argentina and some controversial circumstances. What were the other standout
moments from the weekend? For you.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
It was a wild game, wasn't it. Was it seven
yellow cats?
Speaker 5 (22:11):
Yeah, yeah, and Argentinian players coming pretty close to making
physical altercation with the referee near the end of the game,
the Storm storming out of his press conference postmatch because
he wasn't happy that Englan playing their music too loud.
(22:32):
So there's no love lost between those two teams. So
that that was a wild old game. I think the
spring Box starting a rookie ten and you know, changing
their team massively, still being Wales forty three NL. So yeah,
some big results and Joe Schmitts ten. You're finishing on
a positive note because that's no no mean feat to
(22:55):
put a score like that on on Italy. So yeah,
it's been I've enjoyed the Nation's Championship. I like the format.
You know, it's not great for the carbon footprint, it's necessarily,
but I do like that. It's been refreshing, hasn't it
to see teams play different teams every week.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
I think it's been a welcome site.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Yeah, it has been. It's been. It's been good.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
I think there's been you know, the tours that they
had previously weren't quite tours. We saw that well with
last year with France not sending their best players. I
think now the three weeks different opponents every time has added,
you know, a lot more context to the competition. You're
you're looking at to see what the opponents did last
week as you head into the next week. So I
(23:42):
think by and large it's been been a step forward
for rugby as we pause the Nation's Championship ahead of
the November window, and indeed we'll take a quick pause
here on Rugby Direct back with more after this time.
Now for our final four napes for rugby topics. First one,
rate the All Blacks July window out of ten from me. Now,
traditionally you're a very tough markut, so I'm very intrigued
(24:04):
to see how you go here.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
This is Jerry Elliott, get the black marker.
Speaker 5 (24:09):
No, I'm going to go a seven, solid seven on
the basis of what we saw on Saturday. Would have
been a lot lower had they not raised the bar.
But it was look I think from an attack point
of view alone, from where they were last year to
where they are now a world's apart, isn't it in
terms of everyone being on the same page and the
(24:32):
team actually creating things rather than relying on individuals to spark.
We've seen improvements I think under the high ball as well,
which was one massive achilles and I think we've seen
individuals progress in a big way.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
So a solid seven for me, Earliott Younge.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
You'm always a softer market than you are, so I'm
going seven and a half. Big strides forwards. You can
see the way the All Blacks want to play now,
which wasn't evident towards the back end of last year
when they were clunky and you said relying on individual brilliance.
I think there's more growth to come in this team,
but I think there's been some big markers both on
(25:11):
a selection basis but also a game plan basis that
weren't there last year. So to go back to that,
will we years before the break optimism? Yeah, I think
there's a lot to like as we hit into the
next part, topic number two. Well, the thirty four players
who were in the July Nations Championship squad all hit
South Africa and if so, who are the other ten
(25:32):
that will join the squads? Two part question their napes?
Speaker 5 (25:37):
I think they will, Eliert, we didn't see everyone O No,
Kyle Preston, Simon Parker, Boden Barrett didn't see any game time,
so maybe those would be the guys in question, unless
there's any major injuries, which doesn't sound like there are.
It sounds like Artist Severe will have a late start,
maybe sit out the first few weeks and join the
(25:59):
All Blacks after because he's played eighteen months to rugby,
will have a rest. But Cody Taylor and Reuben Love
don't sound like they're too serious, so I don't see
any one else else dropping out, and then yeah, you're
adding another ten players. I think I'm not too sure
about leicsterfying A Nooko's status, but if he's available, you'd
think he would come in. Fabian Holland will be there,
(26:19):
probably Riquijuane. I think you'd need another hooker and half back,
so you're probably looking at a Noah Hotham and maybe
a George Bell and then you'll need another prop, so
whether it's an Olie Norris or I think the Hurricanes
tight head prop Lowarchy, I think he could be in
the mix as a bit of a bolter for a
(26:40):
tight head, and then maybe other guys like Tavi Tavanaua
so I don't think there'll be too many bolters. Maybe
a Lucas Casey gets to look him. I know he
was part of the pre Super Rugby finalists camp the
All Blacks heads and there are a couple of other
other crusaders, of course because they didn't made the final,
Elliott just in case you didn't remember, So I think.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
I'd think those guys would be in the max. What
of it you see any bolts from the blue Well?
Speaker 3 (27:10):
I saw an interesting piece from our colleague Paul Cully
on the post over the weekend calling for Samessi to
Porte Law to be selected. He's signed with Southland, I believe,
once again for the NPC, and I'm not sure where
his Super Rugby feature is that might need to be
tidied up before that happens. He's been a player of
immense promise at Mowana Pacifica for the last couple of years,
(27:34):
no longer of course attached to them, so the question
mark he shouldn't theory be fully eligible for the All Blacks,
which he wouldn't have been had Mowana still been alive
and he was contracted to them. So I think he's
an intriguing option. I'm just not sure whether he falls
into the big fish small pond sort of size of
Mowana Pacifica, how he would go at a different New
(27:57):
Zealand franchise. I've got that question mark, but I've always
been impressed by him. But I kind of agree on
most of your selections, and I'm not sure there's a
room for an out and out bolter ten players though
I think Renni mentioned maybe a seven to three sort
of split, or maybe a six to four in terms
of forwards v back, so similar players to you. You've
probably got a Norris, Maybe you take an extra proper
(28:19):
a dire Ta Vita Muffalo, Maybe offer Tonga Farsi just
for a bit of midweek leadership. George Boll, Fabian Hond,
Jamie Hannah probably in the mix. Does double Skrifi get
a nod A Tory in Varnes maybe or a tay
Law and then Hotham Ricco Yuwani would suspect you'd expect
will be one of those ten players, and yere I
(28:42):
think Luke lessifying Onnooki is probably out given that the
length of time, But if he's making a fast recovery,
absolutely he goes. But maybe an Isaac Hutchison or a
shay Fie Harky potentially for some some extracover in the backs.
I don't know, but I tend to agree that these
are probably going to players that have been in and
around the All Blacks environment previously.
Speaker 5 (29:04):
Yeah, Jamie Hannah is a good shout, but well Fabian
Holham coming back, I'm not sure if you need two
more locks. So look, it's gonna be a great opportunity
to build depth, isn't it. Dave Reni's already talked about
how much planning in preparation they've put into this tour.
They've picked the first four games, which I think at
the top of we had a three against the domestic
(29:26):
franchises in the first test, so clearly mapping everything out.
It's for twenty three man squads, so they seem well
prepared and it's gonna be a great opportunity to build
genuine camaraderie. You think about a standard Northern Tour, there's
(29:46):
plenty of players who might play one test, might get
ten minutes off the bench. Well, you're gonna have to
rotate heavily in South Africa and so all these guys
are going to get game time and I think that
will give you real squad buying.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Yeah, I think so so and Mike Bleia, it was
interesting hearing from him yesterday morning, the day after the
All Blacks game, he fronted media and he was on
the two th a nine British and Irish lions to
it and said, you know, that was quite useful because basically,
just going from game to game, you have a lot
of time to think about it. You're playing a lot
of rugby and you really get close and you really
(30:21):
get a lot of camaraderie. As you said, so, I
think this is going to be good for the All
Black spending that much time away on a proper to it.
I'm going to be fascinated to see how it unfolds
on that topic. Three, Are there any spots and say
the run on side that are still up for grabs
as we heard the South Africa.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
Yes, I think there are.
Speaker 5 (30:41):
I think blindside continues to be the perennial question to provide.
Probably staked his claim at the weekends, but I think
that still remains contestable. I think the left wing Josh
Morby did well with the Weekends and he's clearly impressed
and his two tests so far with his anticipation. He
(31:02):
was good under the high ball, but I think that's
still relatively contestable, and I think one locking spot is
up for grabs as well. I think that the front
row potentially tight head between Fletch Neil and Tyrol Lomax,
who's quite injury prone, isn't he.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
And I think the hookers, well, Cody Taylor will start.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
I think Suffer Armour is pushing really hard for more
game time there. And the composition of the bench, I
think Delbaks are still working out quite where to go
with that.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Yeah, I'd agree, and look, I'm is playing some great rugby,
but I think you keep him on the bench. I
think he is the perfect player to play those kind
of minutes. And whether it is you know, maybe there
is a bit of innovation that can come in here,
and maybe it is Cody Taylor plays the first third
and then you get more coming on ten minutes before
(31:58):
halftime as players from the opposition, and you know, looking
forward sucking the big ones, looking forward to that halftime break,
you get oh moreer going there. I think there are
ways you can be smart about playing. That's what we
saw on the weekend and how dangerous. He could come
on before half time, will be it through Taylor injury.
So I like the way that he comes off the
bench and adds that sort of impact. I think to
(32:19):
Pie as you're starting thirteen, I've still got a couple
of defensive questions over him, but I think he's the
guy to start in those big tests against South Africa
to provide that'll probably mix and match, but I suspect
he'll start in the blind side for those test matches there,
in which case, you know, it's kind of interesting to
see the way they go for the second road, whether
it is a toy plot who starting scenario, because if
(32:42):
you have Vay starting, then maybe you don't need to
pilot too on the bench where he's become accustomed to
for a couple of seasons. Out really done quite well
off the all blacks bench there. So there's some fascinating
threads to follow. The other one being as well Mapes
that I asked Steve Renny and the media conference last
week around the bench scenario, and he suggested that maybe
(33:03):
we'll look at a six to two bench for one
of those tour games at the very least, which will
be interesting to see how how they map that out,
won't it They will?
Speaker 5 (33:13):
Yeah, look they'll It'll be interesting because they'll want to
try things, but they also want to keep some things
up their sleeves. So there'd be a bit of foxing
in those tour games because you're not going to want
to reveal your your set piece struck moves, but you're
going to be wanting to trial certain combinations and different.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Elements of your games.
Speaker 5 (33:35):
So it's going to be a tricky juggling act in
that regard as well.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Certainly is right.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Topic number four slight diversion of sorts on the Final four.
Joe Schmitt's Wallaby's tenure comes to and end after the
nation's championship Le's kiss, tacking over for the next block
of tests that the Wallabies have. How would you judge
his tenure? Let's say out of ten and would you
consider it a success?
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Yeah? Out of ten.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
It's tough, isn't it, because it was a real turbulent
ride and results alone you would say not great. But
you've got to consider where the Wallaby started. So look,
i'll give them six and a half. Maybe you go
back to that line. They could have easily won the
home British and Irish line series and they do that,
that completely changes the complexion of your tenure. Look, I
(34:24):
think Joe, there's no doubt joshmat improved the Wallabies and
their set piece has come a long way. I think
certain combinations that they have a clear plan about the
way they want to go about things. But Australian rugga
just really lacks depth and that's such a handbrake, whether.
Speaker 4 (34:42):
That be at first five or in the front row.
Speaker 5 (34:46):
They've got some handy outside backs, but their depth is
a real problem and that's something you're not going to
fix overnight. But he started at such a low ebb
Joe Schmidt, and he really did rebuild the Wallaby's confidence.
They just couldn't maintain it for long enough. Like the
British and Irish lines was their peak, and then they
(35:07):
faded badly at the back end that year. They probably
should have been an island in their first match in July.
If they do that, then they start to the Nation's
Championship looks very different. They faded badly against France and
then finished well against Italy. So look, it's a tough
gig for Lesis Kiss taking over and I will be
(35:28):
surprised if he achieves a great deal more than what
Joe did.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Yeah, I would probably market a six out of ten.
There were some peaks, There were some troughs, as there
are with every rugby coach, bar the all time greats.
But you know, you think back and there was that
fantastic when it took it him end of twenty twenty four,
which was an incredible moment, that last minute try where
(35:53):
they won the game in incredible fashion. But there were
some really black moments as well. Sorry, another good moment
as you mentioned, you know that Lions series. They probably
should have won the series. As you said, they go
to Alice Park atting into sixty odd year losing record
the year. But there were some bleak moments as well.
They had almost seventy put on them in Argentina and
(36:14):
twenty twenty four there were some muddled selections, didn't really
get close to winning the bledders Low Cup. Had a
close run against the All Blacks last year and a
close game the year before at Stadium Australia, but that
was probably the All Blacks bundling. It are dropping their
bundle more than anything. Last year's end of Tour Interview
two was really messy or well beaten by Irelands, well
(36:36):
beaten by England. So I think it'll be remembered for
some muddled selections by and large. And ye, look he
did improve things because they were at such a low
yeb after that twenty three World Cup and what Eddie
Jones did. But I just don't think that the Wallaby's
depth suited him given what he'd come from from Ireland
(36:58):
not too far previously, and that all black stint as well.
I think he was not found out necessarily, but I
think a little bit just it was harder for him
to work to what he knew when he didn't have
the depth of some of those countries. So yeah, probably
a six out of ten, but I can't see Lescus
improving things. That's quickly. That'll about do us for Rugby Direct.
(37:22):
Did want to just mention though, before we do wrap up,
there's a text sorry tweeked last week that we didn't
get to. I meant to get it to us on Thursday,
but I didn't get to it. This is from Dan
Barr on Twitter. Lad Jah Potter is the best balance
of technical analysis and neutral opinion out the year. What
do you reckon? Better balance? Loose trio of six Parkers
seven eight. Larkey switched via six later on bring on Signa.
(37:47):
What are your thoughts on that we didn't see Parker
at all in these last three weeks.
Speaker 5 (37:53):
No, personally, I wasn't completely sold on some Parker. I
think he's a big body. He he's good defensively. He
had moments in Super Rugby, but I don't think he
played as well as he did the year before. I
think he doesn't offer as much with ball in hand.
He's good at the line out, but I don't think
(38:15):
he's a real compelling prospect to fulfill that Jersey long term.
That's just my personal opinion to pou Via, I think
look at work well on Saturday nights, but I think
there's still that's still very contestable. And for me, Tupo
has played his best rugby for the All Blacks from Locke.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
He brings a different dynamic.
Speaker 5 (38:39):
He compliments I think Ardie Severe and Luke Jacobson in
some capacities. But I think you also sacrifice a bit
of speed off the scrum defensively and to the breakdown
where that's not his strength. So there's no no perfect
solution here, but between Parker and Via I would go via.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Yeah, I in you speak convinced that Parker as well.
I think he brings the size the All Black swamp,
but I'm not sure he's the kind of player necessarily
that does for things they want on a rugby field,
and that maybe speaks to the fact that we didn't
see him in July. We will certainly see him against
the Stormers, I would suspect, but I think he needs
(39:23):
to take some step forwards around his ball playing abilities
if he's going to be a regular starting six for
the All Blacks. So I think the jury's out on him.
Would like to see a bit more. Maybe he should
have played against certainly potentially had a role there just
to get him some rugby. But maybe he gets back
a week for the NPC, potentially before the All Blacks
(39:43):
fly out. Actually I think they might fly it before
that first week in the NPC, But regardless, he will
get some game time on this tour and a chance
to impress the All Blacks coaches. How about does us
for Rugby Direct? We will be back on Thursday with
a special episode. We've got cams to a four Blues.
Ford's former MULDI All Black former All Blacks fifteen player
joining us on the podcast. We recorded this last week.
(40:05):
Cams to a fower, incredible human going through incredibly tough
battle at the moment, as you would know, with terminal
cancer sarcoma. We recorded this last week Lovely Blow Kim
and his wife Britt came in recorded this podcast with him.
It's a pretty special episode, isn't it, Napes and looking
forward to releasing that episode a bit later on this week.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (40:28):
Look, it's a bloody tough conversation to have somebody struggling
through terminal cancer, but quite inspiring as well. I think
the way Cam's facing it, his positivity and optimism and
the way in which he's still going about helping people. Yeah,
very very inspiring guy. So look forward to sharing that
(40:49):
chat with it everyone. And just a quick shout out Elliott's.
The weekend, the Fox and Seniors and Reserves both won
the Hot of Final Company Championships. So title town in
Wellington and Fox and So life doesn't get much better.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Okay, that's good, very good congratulations, A lot of success
for that part of the world.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
At the moment.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Just need to bring it back to Red and Black Country.
A set if you can have one year and then
we'll just reset things next year and Scott Hansen, we
trust that'll about do us for Rugby Direct, as I
said back on Thursday with a special app and we'll be.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Back next part of the week after that.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
All Black Sport Fall South Africa is named thanks to
Mark Kelly for producing and to Access Solutions for elevating
you and your business to a higher living.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
For more from News Talk st B, listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
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