August 13, 2026 • 35 mins
On the latest episode of Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier join us from Johannesburg to break down the shock recall of Richie Mo'unga to the All Blacks squad. Is he the right man to replace Billy Proctor, or does the move raise more questions than answers?
The team also counts down to the All Blacks' final tour match before next Sunday's first test, dissecting the latest team naming and debating whether Dave Rennie has selected the right side to get the series off to the perfect start.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B.
Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio,
straight down the middle of try try to get inside
(00:29):
the game from every end goal. It's Rugby Direct with
Elliot Smith and Liam Napier, powered by News Talks ed B.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct, howared by Fourklip Solutions, lifting you
and your business to a higher level. The tour, It
moves on, We roll on and now in Johannesburg, oh
Ye Smith with me, Liam Napier, Liam shadow boxing, but
the shadow boxing from a All Blacks perspective will most
complete one more tour game before the Tests start against
(00:59):
the Bulls. But we thought it might happen. It has happened.
Richie Muwonga will join Rugby's greatest rivalry Tour. Not a
surprise he's coming over, although they've taken a few days
to work out that he was the guy that wanted
to replace Billy Proctor. They left it into after the
Sharks game, which will touch on shortly your thoughts on
(01:22):
the fact that Richie Moonger is jordan Us All Blacks Tour.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
They took their time, didn't they thoughts might happen more swiftly,
maybe a day or two earlier, but it has happened,
and it was probably always gonna happen at some point
this tour. You can argue whether the All Blacks need
five playmakers. They probably don't, but Dave Rennie always wanted
(01:48):
Rich mu Wonger involved from the outset of this Test season,
from the outset of this tour. He is gonna be
a big part of the longer term World Cup picture,
and so it's not a surprise that he's here.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Is No, it's not, and it always felt likely as
soon as Billy Proctor's ruled out that he was probably
probably the guy that left that decision into after the
Sharks game to see if there were any other injuries.
Damien McKenzie twisted his ankle but by all accounts is
going to be completely fine for next week. But they
decided that this was the right option to take. Interesting though,
(02:27):
because they've now decided that Rico Yuanne can play midfield
despite being listed as an outside back. Obviously, we've seen
Rico Yuanne play plenty of midfield before, and Nadawa was
mentioned as a player that can slide into midfield as needed.
But this is about getting him into the All Black system,
isn't it, And not so much necessarily a game time,
although that will happen and sounds like you'll play at
(02:49):
least some role against the Lions. But this is about
getting him into the All Blacks and they found a
way to do it.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Yeah, that's right. Look, the only reason he's not here
is because he signed an eighteen month contract as opposed
to a two year contract, and that forced them to
go back and play provincial rugby and stay. Rennie was
always going to use the avenue of an injury to
try and bring him over at some stage. New Zell
and robiev Board have granted their approval, So look, the
(03:17):
band aid's being ripped off, and I think that's good
for all involved, because otherwise there'd be so much speculation
throughout this tour. What you have now is a delicate
situation for Rennie to manage, and to this point, I
think he's dealt with it really well. We had a
press conference with him today and he shared the fact
that he got his four playmakers for Tens together and
(03:41):
talked to them prior to even telling Rich and Wog
he was coming over. Very transparent about the fact that
he is your black coaching, he's the best players involved.
He also was very open about the fact that Wang
coming over after these three tour games, that he won't
be involved in the first Test. But it is a
(04:01):
delicate dynamic because the selection picture has shifted. I think
this season with on the basis of Ruben Love's form,
Dave Rennie has thrown him the keys, he's given him
the confidence. He's backed him, and Love has repaid that faith.
And look, he's not the finished product, but there's a
(04:22):
lot to like about the way he's gone about his work,
his vision. He's great under the high ball, he's good
on defense. He's very confident and assured in what he's doing.
But beyond that first test, as you say, Muong a
wall Reny, basically he's told us today he will be
involved in the Lions game between the first and second Tests,
(04:43):
and then beyond that, everything has to be earned for everyone.
So the pressure does ratchet up a notch on Love
to maintain that jersey and to continue to perform.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
As it should be. There should be pressure on him.
There's a delicate balance when you've got full playmakers already
that you've prescribed as tens, and you know Josh Jacomb
is going to get a start this week against the Balls.
He's the the young player that they've looked down and gone.
He's the next in line from the younger cropper players.
McKenzie's played close to one hundred ish tests I think
(05:17):
from memory around about eighty eighty on from from off
the top of my head, Boden Barretts play one hundred
and forty four. These are experienced players, but it is
a delicate balance to get. You know, every player's got
a perspective of where they should be sitting in the play,
in the picking order and everything like that. So I
think it's the right call from Dave Renny to get
(05:38):
the four together and go this is what's happening. He's
coming in. But case of iron sharpens iron, I think,
and you get Richie Muangaran adds in to the brain's
trust of the all Blacks tens. I spoke with Josh
Jacob today who was very effusive and says he, you know,
by the end of the tour, basically Richie's going to
be stick of the side of them because he's looking
(05:59):
forward to picking his brain so much about what he
sees in the game. So if that's the perspective they take,
then I think it can only be a good thing.
But it will be awkward at some point now that
Richie Wonge is back or about to be back in
a matter of a day or so in the All
Blacks environment, because they're going to carry forty four obviously
(06:20):
for the Ruggby's Greatest Rivalry, but they're going to drop
a few for the back past Baltimore and then you
look at the Bledterslow Cup and the end of Year Tour.
There are some big calls to be made soon by
Dave Rennie. So as soon as he arrives, it's a
chance for every player is basically going to have to
be on their best.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Yeah. Absolutely, Look, I think Rennie's dealt with it initially,
but it's just a start yep, isn't it. And there's
going to be many difficult conversations to be heads. But
I do like how he's front footed it. He could
have just selected him and left it as a bit
of an elephant in the room, and then the impact
comes through selection and you start to unravel and destabilize
(07:03):
the culture that you've built. So to meet it head on.
To be transparents upfront is really important, and that wasn't
one of the strengths of Razor's regime, and his public
messaging all the time about wanting to get Muwanga involved
and bring him home was not a great message to
send to the tens in that environment at the time.
(07:25):
So it does a real contrast and how that's been
dealt with internally in particular, and then Renney's messaging publicly
I thought was really good again today as well.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Well, yeah, to lift the curtain a bit, and maybe
people might have seen her on YouTube or watched the
media conference themselves, But basically Dave Rennie said, let's let's
talk about Richie Wonger first and then we can move
on to the game. So there's probably five six minutes
worth of Richie Wonger related questions and moved into the game.
So confront a head on. Let's not go around the issue,
let's go straight into the heart of it and talk
(07:57):
about it.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
The next question is what do you expect from Wonga?
So he's come back from Japan. Three seasons in Japan,
and while Japan's an improving domestic competition, I would probably
rate it fourth fifth best domestic comp in the world,
and so whether it's Super Rugby or English Premiership, it's
there's still a big, massive gap between those competitions and
(08:19):
the Test arena. Wong hasn't played Test rugby.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
For since the World Cup final in twenty three, so it's.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
A long time he's come back. He said, two games
of provincial rugby. I haven't seen those, but the reports
I've seen, even from Kanteb said, you know, not quite
the muang of old. It's early days, but historically players
coming back from Japan need time to find their feet
to regain their best form. So he's not going to
(08:46):
come back and be this immediate savior either, you know.
So what what what? What? What are your expectations for
Wanga coming back into this orblock environment. Is he just
going to hit the ground running?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Well, I don' not meant it's going to depend how
the first and Test goes because he obviously not play that.
But I'm not sure the All Blacks need a savior
per se. And the ideal scenario is that Mounga can
work his way back in with a Lions game and
maybe he plays a Test match third Test says, whatever
it might be and begins to find his feet again
at test level. But you know, he's a player built
(09:22):
for the big occasion. You know, you think about how
many titles he's won. You know, the World Cup has
obviously eluded him a couple of times now for the
All Blacks. But I think he can quickly get back
to the standard that's expected of him. But still have
Ruben Love. Is that the first choice in You know,
I don't think Wong has made a compelling enough case
(09:43):
at the NPC level or previously to go. He's better
than the guy that's you know, steered the All Blacks
through the first three tests of the year and will
do so for the opening tests against the spring Box.
But what you wanted to see is that he's now
putting pressure on Rubin Love, and on Bowden Barrett, and
on Damian McKinsey, albeit McKenzie is now perhaps few as
more of a fifteen, and on Josh Jacob as well,
(10:06):
so that that decision is really tough for Dave Runny
to go. Actually, I thought we were going to go
with X y Z for Test three, but Moong has
come in and hit the ground running, and maybe he
is the guy that can come off the bench or
play play a role there. So expectations. Look, I think
(10:26):
he knows test rugby Richard Morgan, and i'd suspect that
he will get some test experience before this tour is
out again. And you know, Anton Lenet Brown, for example,
has come out of Japan, had a little bit of
test rugby in that July window. But I've been impressed
with what Anton Lenet Brown has done from that stint
(10:47):
in Japan. He's been direct, he's been really running some
nice lines with ball in hand. I thought he was
one of the All Blacks best against the Stormers. So
maybe you know you can come back from Japan and
slot it into a test environment or all Blacks environment.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Yeah, I think your point there about easing back into
it and not been a start in Central figure straight
off the bat in that sense. On Lena Brown, he
hasn't been starting, and I agree he has been good,
but he's been allowed to maybe find his feet a
little bit. And I would probably argue that Artie Severe
wasn't at his best in July. You could perhaps attribute
(11:25):
that to playing in Japan, but he's also been on
the rugby treadmill for eighteen months, so now, no doubt
this break will benefit him. So there's a lot of
dynamics that go into a mix about whether a player
is at the peak of his form.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, there is. And the other thing that I would
say as well is that they've got too many first
fives now. But in a way that is a good
thing because there's no pressure on one going to have
to be up to speed and ready to jump in
for the first or second test because there are so
many injuries that he's got to slot in. I think
the fact he's coming now, there'll be three of the
(11:56):
two games will have gone by the time he gets here,
so you know, the test lineup is set that you
don't have to come in and fill a hole straight away.
You can sort of chip away in the background and
do that rather than have to add something into the
mixed straight away. So I think that also does play
a role, and perhaps that's also been part of the thinking,
(12:17):
is that we don't need an extra first five. But
if we're going to bring an extra player in, maybe
you look at a player that is going to, over
the next few weeks be able to build into a
test level player.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah, you want them involved. He has been a world
class figure. While he hasn't won a World Cup, I
think he was exceptional in the quarter final against Ireland
that victory and has had some great performances for the
All Blacks when he was given the keys. You know,
you think back to twenty nineteen and him and Boden
(12:49):
Barrett falling over each other a week, but that dynamic
didn't really work, so it took the All Blacks a
long time to actually be like, okay, Richie's our guy,
and I think that's when we saw the best of
him at that level.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
And sorry, sorry to jump over here, but the Black
site using that double playmaker ten fifteen anymore either, you know, McKenzie.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
They are, but Kens is very content to play that
second receiver.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
And Jordi Barrett's been pop again to alleviate some of
the pressure off. So it's more of a ten twelve
traditional ish double playmaker than a ten to fifteen, which
I think will help because you're right in twenty nineteen
they're falling over each other.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
And while Muhanga and the Tens a natural spotlight flash points,
competition within any environment, within any elite professional sporting environment
should be a good thing. Like you say, Iron sharper zion.
It should push players to reach new heights and look,
(13:45):
competition is even in another position. Look at the loose forwards.
They absolutely stacked Locke. Yeah, so it's not confined, but
it's just the fact that this Richie Muwonga debates eligibility
shadow has been hovering around for so long and if
we do just touch on that briefly, it seems like
(14:07):
the arrival of David Rennie and Don Tricker and the
high performance element will spark a conversation to simplify New
Zealand rugby's convoluted. Certainly from a public perspective, if you're
looking at the situation, you're just like, why are you
making this so hard? So maybe in the future we
(14:28):
have a situation where players signed to come home to
New Zealand, he's immediately eligible for the All Blacks. Maybe
you can select two or three players that have met
a certain experienced threshold from offshore that and that doesn't
open the floodgates. I'm not too sure, but I certainly
feel like that's where Dave Rennie wants it to get to.
And with Don Tricker coming back, it sounds like there's
(14:49):
conversation starting behind the scenes to address what's been quite
hard for the average Joe public to wrap the head around.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Right. Yeah, Look, we understand the nuances and I think
we've touched on this before, but we understand that the
nuances of why certain rules are in players and we
talked about Steve with See Lancaster on the podcast what
a couple months ago when you came in and joined
us as well. I understand New Zealand Rugby's perspective, but
if you're a casual fan or maybe a fan that
only watches the All Blacks, you try explaining why Richie
(15:22):
Moore can't be on this tour that has been hyped
up and talked about. Is you know the biggest thing
in rugby this year?
Speaker 3 (15:29):
You haven't selected and he's playing provincial rugby for Cannonbury. Yeah,
and you're playing him hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah, exactly. It doesn't pass the pub test, I don't think.
And hopefully, as you alluded to that, with Don Trekor
on board and Conrad Smith coming in, Dave Rennie, whether
it's over some and whatever it might be, they can
put their heads around the table and go okay, that's
it's easier to understand for the casual fan, for everyone,
and for the players themselves that know what they're getting
into when they do leave New Zealand Rugby that these
(15:58):
are the rules or these are the ways that you
can come back and play for the All Blacks. So
I think that can only be a good thing.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Just before we leave them along a situation, you know,
injuries and form, and there'd be a lot that will
try inspire over the coming weeks and months. But as
it sits now, if we say that Josh Jacob is
highly likely to go home after the three tests here
before Baltimore and then you cast a head to the
Bledderslow's and the India Tour, can the All Blacks carry
within let's say a thirty six man squad whichm longer
(16:27):
Ruben Love, Damien McKenzie and Boden Barrett.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
I don't think they can. Lord McKinsey is now seen
as a fullback and I think that this is going
to be the interesting part of this is that more
will probably quickly find himself being number two in the
picking order behind Reuben Love. And what does that mean
for Boden Barrett. You know he's getting a start at
fullback this weekend. Maybe his path back to Test rugby
(16:52):
his via fullback. I don't know, but as I said before,
there are going to be some tough conversations coming up,
you know, Josh Jacob my came and you know, shoot
the lights out against the balls this weekend and maybe
change Daver in his mind around whether he is as
a plier that is sent on the early played home
to New Zealand or whether he does go to Baltimore.
So I think, yeah, there are some interesting conversations to come.
(17:16):
But I think it's pretty fluid and yep, I don't
know that he can carry all four. But I also
think now you know, Mackenzie not sure that he'll play
ten under Dave Rennie with moren coming in with Jacob,
So yeah, it's live. What do you think?
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Yeah, Fluid's a good way to discribe. And I think
Dave Rennie was very honest today when he said I
don't know when Muhanga will play Test rugby and I
think that's genuine. So that will transpire over the coming weeks.
Casting a head to the Northern Tour, I think Boden
Barrett is massively at risk and I think he needs
to perform. He needs a performance. Steel Blacks publicly have
(17:54):
maintained that they're happy with what he's displaying. I was
very underwhelmed by his starting performance against the Stormers. As
you say, he is now switched from ten to fifteen
and that's another string to his by. But to do
that he needs to be strong and confident under the
high ball and back his running game. I think he's
(18:18):
probably his tendency in recent time has been to kick
first rather than run or pass, So I think he's look,
he's played one hundred and forty four tests, He's been
a world class figure. But I think he needs to perform.
He's under pressure to perform, and if there is one
guy that's gonna mess out, it would.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Have to be at this point in time. But you
know he might get some game time against the balls
and tear them apart of the loft of service face.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Things can change quickly.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
They very much can. Just finally on Morga in some way.
In a lot of ways, it's just good to have
as done. It has been a backdrop from basically twenty
twenty four onwards under the Scott Robertson tenure of this team.
You know he basically talked about it, and look, a
lot of the times he wasn't very good at shutting
it down and he needed to be better at that.
(19:05):
But there was occasions like in Sydney where he talked
about he'd been out for a surf with Joey John's
and had been brought up there, and you know, a
couple of times he did bring it up without even
being prompted to bring it up. But this has been
two and a half years of when's Richie Moore coming
back Windsy into the All Blacks Jersey? A saga, A sarga.
It has been a saga, and look, I'm sure we'll
hear it from him at some point over the next
(19:27):
week or so. But and it's good to have it pretty.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Much done absolutely for eighteen months at least until he
decides what he's going to do after the World Cup.
And I guess that's that was his decision in terms
of those the stipulations around the eligibility put himself in
that situation to a degree, and that's because he's uncertain
about what his future holds beyond the next World Cup,
(19:51):
and he's got every right to be. He's come back
to Chase you All Black Jersey to go to a
World Cup and then beyond that, maybe goes back to
Japan and cash and maybe he stays home. He's got
a young family who knows. So it's done and dusted
for eighteen once and let's see what he can produce
for the All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Indeed, so let's quickly touch on the Sharks game. The
All Blacks fifty four NILA over the Sharks in Durban.
I don't know if it came through on the TV
or maybe the radio however you consume the game, but
it was maybe not as raining as heavily during the
game itself, but it had been bucketing down in Durban
for the best part of forty eight hours before the game,
(20:32):
and I'm sure people saw the splashes and the puddles
on the surface. But it wasn't the greatest the first
half of the All Blacks. But I think they're pretty
happy with the way they kicked on in the second
spell and took charge of that game with buy and
larger first choice team. What did you make of it?
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Look, there were some special moments around this game, Man
doing the Hauker to the All Blacks and all the
backstory around how we met Sarannoumonger and somebody Ellison and
doing cup cold the Huker. But from a spectacle perspective,
(21:13):
this was the flattest All Blacks test or match I've
ever been to. Fourteen thousand people in a fifty thousand
seat stadium. It was a very underwhelming Sharks team second string,
missing spring Box, injury depleted, and they barely fired a
shot the All Blacks. It was a pretty scratchy first half.
They kicked into gear in the second, scored some great
(21:35):
tries blew the Sharks away, but it was a wee
bit of an indictment on the tour, I think just
the level of competitiveness, how many people at the stadium.
The weather obviously didn't help, but it wasn't a great
hit out for, like you say, the Shadow Test team.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah, and I think that's a one worry I've got
is that the Bulls game and the Stormers game are
the two bigger tests in terms of their recent RC form.
And yeah, they're missing a lot of spring Box and
both of these two teams. But the Sharks on paper
were always the weakest team, and the Shadow Test team
(22:11):
has played them and perhaps not being sharpened up a
little bit by playing against the Stormers or against the
Balls this weekend, and some of that's been down to
the travel issues around changing flights and various things, and
maybe they would have done it differently, But that would
be one worry is that a lot of these players
head of playing South Africa next week, basically didn't have
(22:34):
to do much defending against the Sharks fifty four nil,
but I think the Sharks had two maybe three entries
into the twenty two, barely played any rugby, especially after halftime,
So it'd be one worry I've got is that, you know,
the top team hasn't necessarily had a test where they've
had to really bite down on the marth guard and
try and get themselves out of a hole or be
(22:55):
in the being a wrestle match until seventy seventy five minutes.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Yeah, certain individuals within that test s I'd have, but
not as a collective and it will have been what
like a month since they would have played together as
one and been under a real litanus test as well.
So yep, that's a fair point. Some more of those
first choice players, Tyro Lomax coming back from a cut
(23:22):
and a couple of others will get that experience against
the Bulls, who should potentially provide the sternest tests of
this tour. But probably the two biggest worries out of
the team naming for the Bulls were the absences of
Cam Regard and Will Jordan. Neither will have any game
time on this tour prior to the first tests. I
(23:42):
don't think that's a huge thing and an idea will
they would have, but Roygal was only ever going to
play twenty thirty minutes. But I am concerned about Will Jordan.
He hasn't trained by the sounds and Dave Rennie was
saying he's reasonably confident that he'll play with a back issue.
But those are two pretty influential figures if you're going
(24:02):
through the test team that you want to involve for
the opening assignment against the Box.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
And yeah, it's a worry for someone like Will Jordan
because he's such an influential part in that back three
and the fact that he has played fullback at Test
level as well. You'd expect him to start on the
right wing. If so, I think it is a worry
that he hasn't had any game time and he's pretty
touch and go. Yeah, it sounds yeah. The one thing
(24:30):
that would perhaps it's gonna be a little bit more
confidence is that they didn't call over any extra cover
or perhaps look at a halfback for a cameral guard
situation instead of calling over Richie Wonga. But again there's
also plenty of wings at their disposed of whether it's
finnyang and North four that comes in on the right wing,
or whether it's Morbere that plays on the right wing
(24:51):
and cl back on the left, which is probably the
more likely scenario. Maybe finneanng and Awful comes off the bench.
In that regard, it doesn't sound good. Potentially, it doesn't
sound it's tour ending at this but backs and niggli things.
And I'm no professional athlete, but you know, I'm sure
you have as well put you back out or you
do it doing something very minor and it takes a
(25:12):
while to get going. You can easily trigger it again
by doing something else minor. So it maybe that he
gets on the training park on Sunday Monday and he's
actually good to go. But the nigli thing, so yeah,
at the stage, you'd say it's probably when Dave when
he said that they're relatively confident that we play. I
think from our perspective, I'll probably be less confident, not
(25:35):
that I've got any any prevenus to the details of
the All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Yeah, certainly more confident in cam Rogard playing than them
will Jordan and well, for me, I think I would
like him. He's not a big man, but boxing terminology,
I think he's better when he's consistently playing. He can
have a bit of ring rust. I think about him
coming back for the Crusaders this year and he was
(26:00):
injured in his first match and he played too long back,
wasn't managed well and wasn't his best match. So but
then he gets to run a form and was our
standing for the All Blacks in July five tries broke
the record. You know, he's a real confidence player coming
into a big test like the spring Box when you're
going to be pipped under the high ball hasn't necessarily
(26:22):
been his strength in recent times either. Yeah, wee bit
of concern around there. I certainly been more confident if
it had a week bit of game time that would
that would be the All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Idea, Yeah, absolutely, And yeah, the idea was he'd play
some of this game in Pretoria whatever it might be,
but not to be. So it's going to be we
hitache fit for Dave Reenie over the coming days to
see whether he is fit. Elsewhere, as you mentioned front
row that hasn't played any rugby on this tour so far,
in me yea Taylor, who's the captain and to roll
(26:56):
Lomax more rugby for Holland and tweep a Lorto in
the second row, who's got the most of game. Do
you think out of this All Blacks side heading into
the Test match next week?
Speaker 3 (27:08):
I think loose Ford's a up for grabs on the bench.
So if you look at Luckeye, Signa and Satitis on
the bench, so Lucra and Signa are starting, it's gonna
be very intriguing who the All Blacks go for with
their I'm expecting them to go to Lowise Ford's on
the bench with to provide playing six, so I think
those spots are contestable. I get the feeling that Renny
(27:32):
will select Cortez Ratma despite Kyle Preston's compelling performance against
the Sharks, but maybe they go you know, I don't know.
Fifty minutes thirty minutes that spot you would think is contestable.
And then and then on the wings, I think you
(27:53):
touched on that scenario there should will Jordan be ruled out?
So those dynamics there and then I guess a guy
like Josh Jacob starting his first test at ten you
spoke to him today as you mentioned, big chance for
a young guy. These aren't gonna around too often. What
was your sense about where his head's at.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yeah, I think he's in a good headspace, Josh Jacob.
He doesn't feel like a guy that gets flustered by
too much and seems ready for the opportunity. I think
he has a big, big opportunity for Josh Jacob to
circle back to where we were talking about earlier in
the podcast, This is a chance to put himself up
in the rankings and go Nope. Can I consider an
(28:32):
all Blacks team will be a not at test level,
but Sarah, an all Blacks team around the paddock. I
thought he added a bit of spark when he came
off the bench against the Stormers. Different having with the
game not from memory, Camel was still fourteen all, but
it was against a tiring Stormer's pack. This is different.
This is against a Bulls team that is, you know,
in their home conditions on the high velves, and you
(28:55):
know USC finalists this year as well, or a lot
of these players so different. But I get the sense
that you know, he's ready to take this opportunity, So
I think that's you know, it can only be a positive.
Whether it translates into any test match time for him
too here to say, but he's got a bit to
goa and I think out of this weekend, I.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Think it's also a big test for Xavier Numea, his
first opportunity on tour and look, you think about should
eaton the group go down. He's probably next keV or
maybe George Bauer, but from a scrummaging perspective, coming to
South Africa and experiencing that for the first time as
a bit of a baptism of fires we've seen against
(29:34):
the Stormers, so that experience will be invaluable for him.
I also just wanted to touch on we technical aspect.
I spoke to Cody Taylor today about the breakfoot, which
who won't delve into it too heavily, but the All
Blacks have been pinged a lot and this is a
new technicality that the refs are ruling on so pinged
(29:56):
at scrum time. Basically the breakfoot if you go onto
a scrummers the hooker. I've got Taylor to explain this
to me. It's your hooking foot and through super Aguy,
through the Sick Nations, you were allowed to move that
slightly to adjust your weights, particularly on your neck. Well,
the referees are basically saying now you're not allowed to
(30:17):
move that at all. And so it's a big adjustment
for a hooker to make. And the all Blacks sort
of learning on the hot that this is going to
be policed quite heavily, and they've been paying a number
of times on tours so that they're trying to get
their head around it. So just in terms of that
break for element, that's that's what they've been struggling with
and trying to get the head around.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Yeah, And it was interesting to hear Dave Rennie put
the question to him in the media conference around that
and don't I get the sense and he sort of
said it that he doesn't think it makes a huge difference.
It's done for safety reasons, but he doesn't think it
doesn't especially I don't know, I kind of think we
need to trust the players a little bit more on this.
You know, wild rugby is very good at dictating what's
(30:58):
safer players and what isn't. But I also think that
players probably know what the weight is. It's done for
actual loading. You know, they probably know how safe it is,
you know, something coming through their break foot versus having
to adjust it, which could again prevent serious injury. You know,
sometimes you might adjust it because you can feel, you know,
the load moving and you need to adjust it to
(31:20):
like anything like you're you're on a ladder or whatever
it might be. You know, your body knows where it's
at risk of getting injury or where it's getting risk
of you know, losing it's losing its footing.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
So it's a weird thing to come hot on.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
That's world rugby for you. That you know that they
get into the weeds of things without looking at the
bigger picture. And yeah, I won't start, but you know this,
it feels like a very odd thing for them to
focus on. I'm sure it's done with the safety perspective,
but often I don't think that's done with a player's
perspective in mind. I think it's done with people that
(31:58):
are either long retired or haven't played the game, rather
than actually talking to the players on how it should
be played.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
The other are elements. We're here in Johannesburg, the Lings
are playing in Pretoria. This is Highvelt country. The year
is dinner. You notice it when you're walking around, if
you're on a troubem or if you're on a bike,
no matter what you're doing. So for the All Blacks
to get a game in an altitude that I think
that's that's a real benefit for them this weekend.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Yeah, I think so too. How you coped with the altitude.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Well, I might sneak off to the gym after this
if I can, if I can manage it. So we'll
find out. But previous years it is noticeable. You know,
you might think you're in good shape and then you
get on the troubemill or whatever it is, doing a
workout and you can only do half of what you can,
particularly when you initially arrive. I've had blood clots in
the nose. I know previous tours you've talked about Sam
(32:46):
Darry arriving and having a bleeding nose. So it affects
people differently, but it can have a very real effect
on your lungs, on your ability to breathe, and then
you throw a Test match in the mix. Yeah, traditionally
the All Blacks have dealt with that really well, but
it is I think it'll be very beneficial for them
to hit for a lot of them to have a
(33:06):
head out.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah, I think so too, And I think it was
Ethan Degrue who said it in the video call back
to New Zealand Media the day. It's like breathing through
a straw. So when you're playing out there, so you
do notice it, your mouth gets a little bit drier
and everything like that. So yeah, there's something else with
the All Blacks to deal with. Just Cokene as well.
The All Blacks, they've really suggested that maybe they look
(33:28):
at a six to two bench in these tour games.
They haven't because obviously Cambroy Guard has been injured. Until
yesterday they were looking at Leroy Carter maybe filling the
reserve halfback role for this game, but they decided against it.
Do you do you think that means they weren't looking
at six to two for a Test match now they
haven't used it in the warm ups.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Yeah, I think so. I don't think we'll see that
against the Box unless they were really struck down in
a half back capacity. Look, Lee Roy Carter could perform
that role, but I just think you're better off going
with specialists. Maybe we see the Box go seven to one,
maybe four for eight pack on the bench. Yeah, look
(34:11):
at the seven to one. I think they did that
at twicken And prior to the World Cup and they
completely steamrolled the All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Yeah, that wouldn't have mattered though they're already well here
in the All Back twent six to two that afternoon
evening and the game was done by halftime. From memory.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Yeah, So look, I think you've got to be where
are being sucked into the spring Box strengths. Stick to
your game plan. It's an option on the table, but
I'll be surprised if we see it in this test series.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Indeed, Well, one more tour game to go before the
test matches. Get underwagh the Balls on Sunday morning, New
zeal On time from five am. You can catch it
on news Talk z be sport or of Liam's analysis
on in zidherld dot co dot nz. But that will
do us for the latterest edition of Rage be direct
thanks to Mark Kelly for producing, and we are powered
by Forklift Solutions, lifting you and your business to a high.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
For more from News Talk zed B, listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B.
Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio,
straight down the middle of try try to get inside
(00:29):
the game from every end goal. It's Rugby Direct with
Elliot Smith and Liam Napier, powered by News Talks ed B.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct, howared by Fourklip Solutions, lifting you
and your business to a higher level. The tour, It
moves on, We roll on and now in Johannesburg, oh
Ye Smith with me, Liam Napier, Liam shadow boxing, but
the shadow boxing from a All Blacks perspective will most
complete one more tour game before the Tests start against
(00:59):
the Bulls. But we thought it might happen. It has happened.
Richie Muwonga will join Rugby's greatest rivalry Tour. Not a
surprise he's coming over, although they've taken a few days
to work out that he was the guy that wanted
to replace Billy Proctor. They left it into after the
Sharks game, which will touch on shortly your thoughts on
(01:22):
the fact that Richie Moonger is jordan Us All Blacks Tour.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
They took their time, didn't they thoughts might happen more swiftly,
maybe a day or two earlier, but it has happened,
and it was probably always gonna happen at some point
this tour. You can argue whether the All Blacks need
five playmakers. They probably don't, but Dave Rennie always wanted
(01:48):
Rich mu Wonger involved from the outset of this Test season,
from the outset of this tour. He is gonna be
a big part of the longer term World Cup picture,
and so it's not a surprise that he's here.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Is No, it's not, and it always felt likely as
soon as Billy Proctor's ruled out that he was probably
probably the guy that left that decision into after the
Sharks game to see if there were any other injuries.
Damien McKenzie twisted his ankle but by all accounts is
going to be completely fine for next week. But they
decided that this was the right option to take. Interesting though,
(02:27):
because they've now decided that Rico Yuanne can play midfield
despite being listed as an outside back. Obviously, we've seen
Rico Yuanne play plenty of midfield before, and Nadawa was
mentioned as a player that can slide into midfield as needed.
But this is about getting him into the All Black system,
isn't it, And not so much necessarily a game time,
although that will happen and sounds like you'll play at
(02:49):
least some role against the Lions. But this is about
getting him into the All Blacks and they found a
way to do it.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Yeah, that's right. Look, the only reason he's not here
is because he signed an eighteen month contract as opposed
to a two year contract, and that forced them to
go back and play provincial rugby and stay. Rennie was
always going to use the avenue of an injury to
try and bring him over at some stage. New Zell
and robiev Board have granted their approval, So look, the
(03:17):
band aid's being ripped off, and I think that's good
for all involved, because otherwise there'd be so much speculation
throughout this tour. What you have now is a delicate
situation for Rennie to manage, and to this point, I
think he's dealt with it really well. We had a
press conference with him today and he shared the fact
that he got his four playmakers for Tens together and
(03:41):
talked to them prior to even telling Rich and Wog
he was coming over. Very transparent about the fact that
he is your black coaching, he's the best players involved.
He also was very open about the fact that Wang
coming over after these three tour games, that he won't
be involved in the first Test. But it is a
(04:01):
delicate dynamic because the selection picture has shifted. I think
this season with on the basis of Ruben Love's form,
Dave Rennie has thrown him the keys, he's given him
the confidence. He's backed him, and Love has repaid that faith.
And look, he's not the finished product, but there's a
(04:22):
lot to like about the way he's gone about his work,
his vision. He's great under the high ball, he's good
on defense. He's very confident and assured in what he's doing.
But beyond that first test, as you say, Muong a
wall Reny, basically he's told us today he will be
involved in the Lions game between the first and second Tests,
(04:43):
and then beyond that, everything has to be earned for everyone.
So the pressure does ratchet up a notch on Love
to maintain that jersey and to continue to perform.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
As it should be. There should be pressure on him.
There's a delicate balance when you've got full playmakers already
that you've prescribed as tens, and you know Josh Jacomb
is going to get a start this week against the Balls.
He's the the young player that they've looked down and gone.
He's the next in line from the younger cropper players.
McKenzie's played close to one hundred ish tests I think
(05:17):
from memory around about eighty eighty on from from off
the top of my head, Boden Barretts play one hundred
and forty four. These are experienced players, but it is
a delicate balance to get. You know, every player's got
a perspective of where they should be sitting in the play,
in the picking order and everything like that. So I
think it's the right call from Dave Renny to get
(05:38):
the four together and go this is what's happening. He's
coming in. But case of iron sharpens iron, I think,
and you get Richie Muangaran adds in to the brain's
trust of the all Blacks tens. I spoke with Josh
Jacob today who was very effusive and says he, you know,
by the end of the tour, basically Richie's going to
be stick of the side of them because he's looking
(05:59):
forward to picking his brain so much about what he
sees in the game. So if that's the perspective they take,
then I think it can only be a good thing.
But it will be awkward at some point now that
Richie Wonge is back or about to be back in
a matter of a day or so in the All
Blacks environment, because they're going to carry forty four obviously
(06:20):
for the Ruggby's Greatest Rivalry, but they're going to drop
a few for the back past Baltimore and then you
look at the Bledterslow Cup and the end of Year Tour.
There are some big calls to be made soon by
Dave Rennie. So as soon as he arrives, it's a
chance for every player is basically going to have to
be on their best.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Yeah. Absolutely, Look, I think Rennie's dealt with it initially,
but it's just a start yep, isn't it. And there's
going to be many difficult conversations to be heads. But
I do like how he's front footed it. He could
have just selected him and left it as a bit
of an elephant in the room, and then the impact
comes through selection and you start to unravel and destabilize
(07:03):
the culture that you've built. So to meet it head on.
To be transparents upfront is really important, and that wasn't
one of the strengths of Razor's regime, and his public
messaging all the time about wanting to get Muwanga involved
and bring him home was not a great message to
send to the tens in that environment at the time.
(07:25):
So it does a real contrast and how that's been
dealt with internally in particular, and then Renney's messaging publicly
I thought was really good again today as well.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Well, yeah, to lift the curtain a bit, and maybe
people might have seen her on YouTube or watched the
media conference themselves, But basically Dave Rennie said, let's let's
talk about Richie Wonger first and then we can move
on to the game. So there's probably five six minutes
worth of Richie Wonger related questions and moved into the game.
So confront a head on. Let's not go around the issue,
let's go straight into the heart of it and talk
(07:57):
about it.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
The next question is what do you expect from Wonga?
So he's come back from Japan. Three seasons in Japan,
and while Japan's an improving domestic competition, I would probably
rate it fourth fifth best domestic comp in the world,
and so whether it's Super Rugby or English Premiership, it's
there's still a big, massive gap between those competitions and
(08:19):
the Test arena. Wong hasn't played Test rugby.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
For since the World Cup final in twenty three, so it's.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
A long time he's come back. He said, two games
of provincial rugby. I haven't seen those, but the reports
I've seen, even from Kanteb said, you know, not quite
the muang of old. It's early days, but historically players
coming back from Japan need time to find their feet
to regain their best form. So he's not going to
(08:46):
come back and be this immediate savior either, you know.
So what what what? What? What are your expectations for
Wanga coming back into this orblock environment. Is he just
going to hit the ground running?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Well, I don' not meant it's going to depend how
the first and Test goes because he obviously not play that.
But I'm not sure the All Blacks need a savior
per se. And the ideal scenario is that Mounga can
work his way back in with a Lions game and
maybe he plays a Test match third Test says, whatever
it might be and begins to find his feet again
at test level. But you know, he's a player built
(09:22):
for the big occasion. You know, you think about how
many titles he's won. You know, the World Cup has
obviously eluded him a couple of times now for the
All Blacks. But I think he can quickly get back
to the standard that's expected of him. But still have
Ruben Love. Is that the first choice in You know,
I don't think Wong has made a compelling enough case
(09:43):
at the NPC level or previously to go. He's better
than the guy that's you know, steered the All Blacks
through the first three tests of the year and will
do so for the opening tests against the spring Box.
But what you wanted to see is that he's now
putting pressure on Rubin Love, and on Bowden Barrett, and
on Damian McKinsey, albeit McKenzie is now perhaps few as
more of a fifteen, and on Josh Jacob as well,
(10:06):
so that that decision is really tough for Dave Runny
to go. Actually, I thought we were going to go
with X y Z for Test three, but Moong has
come in and hit the ground running, and maybe he
is the guy that can come off the bench or
play play a role there. So expectations. Look, I think
(10:26):
he knows test rugby Richard Morgan, and i'd suspect that
he will get some test experience before this tour is
out again. And you know, Anton Lenet Brown, for example,
has come out of Japan, had a little bit of
test rugby in that July window. But I've been impressed
with what Anton Lenet Brown has done from that stint
(10:47):
in Japan. He's been direct, he's been really running some
nice lines with ball in hand. I thought he was
one of the All Blacks best against the Stormers. So
maybe you know you can come back from Japan and
slot it into a test environment or all Blacks environment.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Yeah, I think your point there about easing back into
it and not been a start in Central figure straight
off the bat in that sense. On Lena Brown, he
hasn't been starting, and I agree he has been good,
but he's been allowed to maybe find his feet a
little bit. And I would probably argue that Artie Severe
wasn't at his best in July. You could perhaps attribute
(11:25):
that to playing in Japan, but he's also been on
the rugby treadmill for eighteen months, so now, no doubt
this break will benefit him. So there's a lot of
dynamics that go into a mix about whether a player
is at the peak of his form.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, there is. And the other thing that I would
say as well is that they've got too many first
fives now. But in a way that is a good
thing because there's no pressure on one going to have
to be up to speed and ready to jump in
for the first or second test because there are so
many injuries that he's got to slot in. I think
the fact he's coming now, there'll be three of the
(11:56):
two games will have gone by the time he gets here,
so you know, the test lineup is set that you
don't have to come in and fill a hole straight away.
You can sort of chip away in the background and
do that rather than have to add something into the
mixed straight away. So I think that also does play
a role, and perhaps that's also been part of the thinking,
(12:17):
is that we don't need an extra first five. But
if we're going to bring an extra player in, maybe
you look at a player that is going to, over
the next few weeks be able to build into a
test level player.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah, you want them involved. He has been a world
class figure. While he hasn't won a World Cup, I
think he was exceptional in the quarter final against Ireland
that victory and has had some great performances for the
All Blacks when he was given the keys. You know,
you think back to twenty nineteen and him and Boden
(12:49):
Barrett falling over each other a week, but that dynamic
didn't really work, so it took the All Blacks a
long time to actually be like, okay, Richie's our guy,
and I think that's when we saw the best of
him at that level.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
And sorry, sorry to jump over here, but the Black
site using that double playmaker ten fifteen anymore either, you know, McKenzie.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
They are, but Kens is very content to play that
second receiver.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
And Jordi Barrett's been pop again to alleviate some of
the pressure off. So it's more of a ten twelve
traditional ish double playmaker than a ten to fifteen, which
I think will help because you're right in twenty nineteen
they're falling over each other.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
And while Muhanga and the Tens a natural spotlight flash points,
competition within any environment, within any elite professional sporting environment
should be a good thing. Like you say, Iron sharper zion.
It should push players to reach new heights and look,
(13:45):
competition is even in another position. Look at the loose forwards.
They absolutely stacked Locke. Yeah, so it's not confined, but
it's just the fact that this Richie Muwonga debates eligibility
shadow has been hovering around for so long and if
we do just touch on that briefly, it seems like
(14:07):
the arrival of David Rennie and Don Tricker and the
high performance element will spark a conversation to simplify New
Zealand rugby's convoluted. Certainly from a public perspective, if you're
looking at the situation, you're just like, why are you
making this so hard? So maybe in the future we
(14:28):
have a situation where players signed to come home to
New Zealand, he's immediately eligible for the All Blacks. Maybe
you can select two or three players that have met
a certain experienced threshold from offshore that and that doesn't
open the floodgates. I'm not too sure, but I certainly
feel like that's where Dave Rennie wants it to get to.
And with Don Tricker coming back, it sounds like there's
(14:49):
conversation starting behind the scenes to address what's been quite
hard for the average Joe public to wrap the head around.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Right. Yeah, Look, we understand the nuances and I think
we've touched on this before, but we understand that the
nuances of why certain rules are in players and we
talked about Steve with See Lancaster on the podcast what
a couple months ago when you came in and joined
us as well. I understand New Zealand Rugby's perspective, but
if you're a casual fan or maybe a fan that
only watches the All Blacks, you try explaining why Richie
(15:22):
Moore can't be on this tour that has been hyped
up and talked about. Is you know the biggest thing
in rugby this year?
Speaker 3 (15:29):
You haven't selected and he's playing provincial rugby for Cannonbury. Yeah,
and you're playing him hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah, exactly. It doesn't pass the pub test, I don't think.
And hopefully, as you alluded to that, with Don Trekor
on board and Conrad Smith coming in, Dave Rennie, whether
it's over some and whatever it might be, they can
put their heads around the table and go okay, that's
it's easier to understand for the casual fan, for everyone,
and for the players themselves that know what they're getting
into when they do leave New Zealand Rugby that these
(15:58):
are the rules or these are the ways that you
can come back and play for the All Blacks. So
I think that can only be a good thing.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Just before we leave them along a situation, you know,
injuries and form, and there'd be a lot that will
try inspire over the coming weeks and months. But as
it sits now, if we say that Josh Jacob is
highly likely to go home after the three tests here
before Baltimore and then you cast a head to the
Bledderslow's and the India Tour, can the All Blacks carry
within let's say a thirty six man squad whichm longer
(16:27):
Ruben Love, Damien McKenzie and Boden Barrett.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
I don't think they can. Lord McKinsey is now seen
as a fullback and I think that this is going
to be the interesting part of this is that more
will probably quickly find himself being number two in the
picking order behind Reuben Love. And what does that mean
for Boden Barrett. You know he's getting a start at
fullback this weekend. Maybe his path back to Test rugby
(16:52):
his via fullback. I don't know, but as I said before,
there are going to be some tough conversations coming up,
you know, Josh Jacob my came and you know, shoot
the lights out against the balls this weekend and maybe
change Daver in his mind around whether he is as
a plier that is sent on the early played home
to New Zealand or whether he does go to Baltimore.
So I think, yeah, there are some interesting conversations to come.
(17:16):
But I think it's pretty fluid and yep, I don't
know that he can carry all four. But I also
think now you know, Mackenzie not sure that he'll play
ten under Dave Rennie with moren coming in with Jacob,
So yeah, it's live. What do you think?
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Yeah, Fluid's a good way to discribe. And I think
Dave Rennie was very honest today when he said I
don't know when Muhanga will play Test rugby and I
think that's genuine. So that will transpire over the coming weeks.
Casting a head to the Northern Tour, I think Boden
Barrett is massively at risk and I think he needs
to perform. He needs a performance. Steel Blacks publicly have
(17:54):
maintained that they're happy with what he's displaying. I was
very underwhelmed by his starting performance against the Stormers. As
you say, he is now switched from ten to fifteen
and that's another string to his by. But to do
that he needs to be strong and confident under the
high ball and back his running game. I think he's
(18:18):
probably his tendency in recent time has been to kick
first rather than run or pass, So I think he's look,
he's played one hundred and forty four tests, He's been
a world class figure. But I think he needs to perform.
He's under pressure to perform, and if there is one
guy that's gonna mess out, it would.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Have to be at this point in time. But you
know he might get some game time against the balls
and tear them apart of the loft of service face.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Things can change quickly.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
They very much can. Just finally on Morga in some way.
In a lot of ways, it's just good to have
as done. It has been a backdrop from basically twenty
twenty four onwards under the Scott Robertson tenure of this team.
You know he basically talked about it, and look, a
lot of the times he wasn't very good at shutting
it down and he needed to be better at that.
(19:05):
But there was occasions like in Sydney where he talked
about he'd been out for a surf with Joey John's
and had been brought up there, and you know, a
couple of times he did bring it up without even
being prompted to bring it up. But this has been
two and a half years of when's Richie Moore coming
back Windsy into the All Blacks Jersey? A saga, A sarga.
It has been a saga, and look, I'm sure we'll
hear it from him at some point over the next
(19:27):
week or so. But and it's good to have it pretty.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Much done absolutely for eighteen months at least until he
decides what he's going to do after the World Cup.
And I guess that's that was his decision in terms
of those the stipulations around the eligibility put himself in
that situation to a degree, and that's because he's uncertain
about what his future holds beyond the next World Cup,
(19:51):
and he's got every right to be. He's come back
to Chase you All Black Jersey to go to a
World Cup and then beyond that, maybe goes back to
Japan and cash and maybe he stays home. He's got
a young family who knows. So it's done and dusted
for eighteen once and let's see what he can produce
for the All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Indeed, so let's quickly touch on the Sharks game. The
All Blacks fifty four NILA over the Sharks in Durban.
I don't know if it came through on the TV
or maybe the radio however you consume the game, but
it was maybe not as raining as heavily during the
game itself, but it had been bucketing down in Durban
for the best part of forty eight hours before the game,
(20:32):
and I'm sure people saw the splashes and the puddles
on the surface. But it wasn't the greatest the first
half of the All Blacks. But I think they're pretty
happy with the way they kicked on in the second
spell and took charge of that game with buy and
larger first choice team. What did you make of it?
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Look, there were some special moments around this game, Man
doing the Hauker to the All Blacks and all the
backstory around how we met Sarannoumonger and somebody Ellison and
doing cup cold the Huker. But from a spectacle perspective,
(21:13):
this was the flattest All Blacks test or match I've
ever been to. Fourteen thousand people in a fifty thousand
seat stadium. It was a very underwhelming Sharks team second string,
missing spring Box, injury depleted, and they barely fired a
shot the All Blacks. It was a pretty scratchy first half.
They kicked into gear in the second, scored some great
(21:35):
tries blew the Sharks away, but it was a wee
bit of an indictment on the tour, I think just
the level of competitiveness, how many people at the stadium.
The weather obviously didn't help, but it wasn't a great
hit out for, like you say, the Shadow Test team.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah, and I think that's a one worry I've got
is that the Bulls game and the Stormers game are
the two bigger tests in terms of their recent RC form.
And yeah, they're missing a lot of spring Box and
both of these two teams. But the Sharks on paper
were always the weakest team, and the Shadow Test team
(22:11):
has played them and perhaps not being sharpened up a
little bit by playing against the Stormers or against the
Balls this weekend, and some of that's been down to
the travel issues around changing flights and various things, and
maybe they would have done it differently, But that would
be one worry is that a lot of these players
head of playing South Africa next week, basically didn't have
(22:34):
to do much defending against the Sharks fifty four nil,
but I think the Sharks had two maybe three entries
into the twenty two, barely played any rugby, especially after halftime,
So it'd be one worry I've got is that, you know,
the top team hasn't necessarily had a test where they've
had to really bite down on the marth guard and
try and get themselves out of a hole or be
(22:55):
in the being a wrestle match until seventy seventy five minutes.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Yeah, certain individuals within that test s I'd have, but
not as a collective and it will have been what
like a month since they would have played together as
one and been under a real litanus test as well.
So yep, that's a fair point. Some more of those
first choice players, Tyro Lomax coming back from a cut
(23:22):
and a couple of others will get that experience against
the Bulls, who should potentially provide the sternest tests of
this tour. But probably the two biggest worries out of
the team naming for the Bulls were the absences of
Cam Regard and Will Jordan. Neither will have any game
time on this tour prior to the first tests. I
(23:42):
don't think that's a huge thing and an idea will
they would have, but Roygal was only ever going to
play twenty thirty minutes. But I am concerned about Will Jordan.
He hasn't trained by the sounds and Dave Rennie was
saying he's reasonably confident that he'll play with a back issue.
But those are two pretty influential figures if you're going
(24:02):
through the test team that you want to involve for
the opening assignment against the Box.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
And yeah, it's a worry for someone like Will Jordan
because he's such an influential part in that back three
and the fact that he has played fullback at Test
level as well. You'd expect him to start on the
right wing. If so, I think it is a worry
that he hasn't had any game time and he's pretty
touch and go. Yeah, it sounds yeah. The one thing
(24:30):
that would perhaps it's gonna be a little bit more
confidence is that they didn't call over any extra cover
or perhaps look at a halfback for a cameral guard
situation instead of calling over Richie Wonga. But again there's
also plenty of wings at their disposed of whether it's
finnyang and North four that comes in on the right wing,
or whether it's Morbere that plays on the right wing
(24:51):
and cl back on the left, which is probably the
more likely scenario. Maybe finneanng and Awful comes off the bench.
In that regard, it doesn't sound good. Potentially, it doesn't
sound it's tour ending at this but backs and niggli things.
And I'm no professional athlete, but you know, I'm sure
you have as well put you back out or you
do it doing something very minor and it takes a
(25:12):
while to get going. You can easily trigger it again
by doing something else minor. So it maybe that he
gets on the training park on Sunday Monday and he's
actually good to go. But the nigli thing, so yeah,
at the stage, you'd say it's probably when Dave when
he said that they're relatively confident that we play. I
think from our perspective, I'll probably be less confident, not
(25:35):
that I've got any any prevenus to the details of
the All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Yeah, certainly more confident in cam Rogard playing than them
will Jordan and well, for me, I think I would
like him. He's not a big man, but boxing terminology,
I think he's better when he's consistently playing. He can
have a bit of ring rust. I think about him
coming back for the Crusaders this year and he was
(26:00):
injured in his first match and he played too long back,
wasn't managed well and wasn't his best match. So but
then he gets to run a form and was our
standing for the All Blacks in July five tries broke
the record. You know, he's a real confidence player coming
into a big test like the spring Box when you're
going to be pipped under the high ball hasn't necessarily
(26:22):
been his strength in recent times either. Yeah, wee bit
of concern around there. I certainly been more confident if
it had a week bit of game time that would
that would be the All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Idea, Yeah, absolutely, And yeah, the idea was he'd play
some of this game in Pretoria whatever it might be,
but not to be. So it's going to be we
hitache fit for Dave Reenie over the coming days to
see whether he is fit. Elsewhere, as you mentioned front
row that hasn't played any rugby on this tour so far,
in me yea Taylor, who's the captain and to roll
(26:56):
Lomax more rugby for Holland and tweep a Lorto in
the second row, who's got the most of game. Do
you think out of this All Blacks side heading into
the Test match next week?
Speaker 3 (27:08):
I think loose Ford's a up for grabs on the bench.
So if you look at Luckeye, Signa and Satitis on
the bench, so Lucra and Signa are starting, it's gonna
be very intriguing who the All Blacks go for with
their I'm expecting them to go to Lowise Ford's on
the bench with to provide playing six, so I think
those spots are contestable. I get the feeling that Renny
(27:32):
will select Cortez Ratma despite Kyle Preston's compelling performance against
the Sharks, but maybe they go you know, I don't know.
Fifty minutes thirty minutes that spot you would think is contestable.
And then and then on the wings, I think you
(27:53):
touched on that scenario there should will Jordan be ruled out?
So those dynamics there and then I guess a guy
like Josh Jacob starting his first test at ten you
spoke to him today as you mentioned, big chance for
a young guy. These aren't gonna around too often. What
was your sense about where his head's at.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yeah, I think he's in a good headspace, Josh Jacob.
He doesn't feel like a guy that gets flustered by
too much and seems ready for the opportunity. I think
he has a big, big opportunity for Josh Jacob to
circle back to where we were talking about earlier in
the podcast, This is a chance to put himself up
in the rankings and go Nope. Can I consider an
(28:32):
all Blacks team will be a not at test level,
but Sarah, an all Blacks team around the paddock. I
thought he added a bit of spark when he came
off the bench against the Stormers. Different having with the
game not from memory, Camel was still fourteen all, but
it was against a tiring Stormer's pack. This is different.
This is against a Bulls team that is, you know,
in their home conditions on the high velves, and you
(28:55):
know USC finalists this year as well, or a lot
of these players so different. But I get the sense
that you know, he's ready to take this opportunity, So
I think that's you know, it can only be a positive.
Whether it translates into any test match time for him
too here to say, but he's got a bit to
goa and I think out of this weekend, I.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Think it's also a big test for Xavier Numea, his
first opportunity on tour and look, you think about should
eaton the group go down. He's probably next keV or
maybe George Bauer, but from a scrummaging perspective, coming to
South Africa and experiencing that for the first time as
a bit of a baptism of fires we've seen against
(29:34):
the Stormers, so that experience will be invaluable for him.
I also just wanted to touch on we technical aspect.
I spoke to Cody Taylor today about the breakfoot, which
who won't delve into it too heavily, but the All
Blacks have been pinged a lot and this is a
new technicality that the refs are ruling on so pinged
(29:56):
at scrum time. Basically the breakfoot if you go onto
a scrummers the hooker. I've got Taylor to explain this
to me. It's your hooking foot and through super Aguy,
through the Sick Nations, you were allowed to move that
slightly to adjust your weights, particularly on your neck. Well,
the referees are basically saying now you're not allowed to
(30:17):
move that at all. And so it's a big adjustment
for a hooker to make. And the all Blacks sort
of learning on the hot that this is going to
be policed quite heavily, and they've been paying a number
of times on tours so that they're trying to get
their head around it. So just in terms of that
break for element, that's that's what they've been struggling with
and trying to get the head around.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Yeah, And it was interesting to hear Dave Rennie put
the question to him in the media conference around that
and don't I get the sense and he sort of
said it that he doesn't think it makes a huge difference.
It's done for safety reasons, but he doesn't think it
doesn't especially I don't know, I kind of think we
need to trust the players a little bit more on this.
You know, wild rugby is very good at dictating what's
(30:58):
safer players and what isn't. But I also think that
players probably know what the weight is. It's done for
actual loading. You know, they probably know how safe it is,
you know, something coming through their break foot versus having
to adjust it, which could again prevent serious injury. You know,
sometimes you might adjust it because you can feel, you know,
the load moving and you need to adjust it to
(31:20):
like anything like you're you're on a ladder or whatever
it might be. You know, your body knows where it's
at risk of getting injury or where it's getting risk
of you know, losing it's losing its footing.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
So it's a weird thing to come hot on.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
That's world rugby for you. That you know that they
get into the weeds of things without looking at the
bigger picture. And yeah, I won't start, but you know this,
it feels like a very odd thing for them to
focus on. I'm sure it's done with the safety perspective,
but often I don't think that's done with a player's
perspective in mind. I think it's done with people that
(31:58):
are either long retired or haven't played the game, rather
than actually talking to the players on how it should
be played.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
The other are elements. We're here in Johannesburg, the Lings
are playing in Pretoria. This is Highvelt country. The year
is dinner. You notice it when you're walking around, if
you're on a troubem or if you're on a bike,
no matter what you're doing. So for the All Blacks
to get a game in an altitude that I think
that's that's a real benefit for them this weekend.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Yeah, I think so too. How you coped with the altitude.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Well, I might sneak off to the gym after this
if I can, if I can manage it. So we'll
find out. But previous years it is noticeable. You know,
you might think you're in good shape and then you
get on the troubemill or whatever it is, doing a
workout and you can only do half of what you can,
particularly when you initially arrive. I've had blood clots in
the nose. I know previous tours you've talked about Sam
(32:46):
Darry arriving and having a bleeding nose. So it affects
people differently, but it can have a very real effect
on your lungs, on your ability to breathe, and then
you throw a Test match in the mix. Yeah, traditionally
the All Blacks have dealt with that really well, but
it is I think it'll be very beneficial for them
to hit for a lot of them to have a
(33:06):
head out.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah, I think so too, And I think it was
Ethan Degrue who said it in the video call back
to New Zealand Media the day. It's like breathing through
a straw. So when you're playing out there, so you
do notice it, your mouth gets a little bit drier
and everything like that. So yeah, there's something else with
the All Blacks to deal with. Just Cokene as well.
The All Blacks, they've really suggested that maybe they look
(33:28):
at a six to two bench in these tour games.
They haven't because obviously Cambroy Guard has been injured. Until
yesterday they were looking at Leroy Carter maybe filling the
reserve halfback role for this game, but they decided against it.
Do you do you think that means they weren't looking
at six to two for a Test match now they
haven't used it in the warm ups.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Yeah, I think so. I don't think we'll see that
against the Box unless they were really struck down in
a half back capacity. Look, Lee Roy Carter could perform
that role, but I just think you're better off going
with specialists. Maybe we see the Box go seven to one,
maybe four for eight pack on the bench. Yeah, look
(34:11):
at the seven to one. I think they did that
at twicken And prior to the World Cup and they
completely steamrolled the All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Yeah, that wouldn't have mattered though they're already well here
in the All Back twent six to two that afternoon
evening and the game was done by halftime. From memory.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Yeah, So look, I think you've got to be where
are being sucked into the spring Box strengths. Stick to
your game plan. It's an option on the table, but
I'll be surprised if we see it in this test series.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Indeed, Well, one more tour game to go before the
test matches. Get underwagh the Balls on Sunday morning, New
zeal On time from five am. You can catch it
on news Talk z be sport or of Liam's analysis
on in zidherld dot co dot nz. But that will
do us for the latterest edition of Rage be direct
thanks to Mark Kelly for producing, and we are powered
by Forklift Solutions, lifting you and your business to a high.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
For more from News Talk zed B, listen live on
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