August 16, 2026 • 46 mins
On the latest episode of Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier break down the All Blacks' emphatic 50-19 victory over the Bulls as preparations ramp up for the opening test against South Africa.
The boys reveal their picks for Dave Rennie's matchday 23, debate the biggest selection headaches facing the All Blacks coach, and identify the key battles that could shape the first test at Ellis Park on Sunday morning.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from Newstalks EDB. Follow this
and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio, Straight
down the Middle Sky try to get inside the game
(00:30):
from every end goal. It's Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith
and Leam Navier powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Folkliff Solutions, lifting you
and your business to a higher level. Elligant Smith, Liam
Napier is always Episode two hundred and fifty one of
Rugby Direct. Missed the two fifty milestone the other day.
Didn't even realize until the episode we had live online
and here we are with two fifty one cheap as
(00:58):
didn't feel song ago that we had episode one hundred
little and two fifty.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
That's all right, definitely passed us by. I have to
raise a castle glass at some stage to that milestone.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, absolutely, no one else I'd want to do it
with that. Well, we're speaking of raising a glass. We
were up at dinner the other night and had some
very interesting company, not at our table per se, but
some members of some interesting activities perhaps in Johannesburg.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Yeah, it was intriguing, wasn't it. Us These people came
in just to set the scene, and they look rather important.
There was quite a fuss being made, and they had
some bodyguards who were fully fully stopped, fully.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Armed, no shortage of guns.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
And I've said to the waiter, you know what's happening
over there? Are they famous as someone I should know?
And this is and I apologize in advance.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
You're going to do the extent he's going to do the.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
He goes there. They are business people.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
They do a lot of business, a lot of.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Business, some local gangsters. I wanted to go say hello
and introduced myself, but was told in no uncertain terms
not to by Elliott's and our colleague Jamie Wall. So
there's one little tour story snippet for you along the way.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Absolutely, Look there have been a few others as well.
We went up to Pratory. We'll get onto some rugby
in a moment, went up to Pratory for game day.
You drove up, We drove and I was in charge.
It was a rotational basis of the music. Some good stuff, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
But a Fleetwood, Mac, Tracy Chapman.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Jim radio Head, Smashing Pumpkins. It was a good variety.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
It was a few complications at the start, turned out
my license have expired. Yes, I've had it for ten
years and it's one of the last things you'd expect
to check. But yeah, a few negotiations at the local
car hire place and we overcame that hurdle eventually on
(03:07):
our way.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
So yeah, you did well.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
I'll give you a music assortment. A bit of a tick?
Was it? About forty five minutes up the up the
highway to Pretoria one night there? What about Loftus first
first occasion there? It's a very very iconic rugby venue
in South Africa. What did you make of that from?
I guess a rugby as a rugby fan.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah, loved it. I mean this is a ground that
I hadn't been to before, but one that I, you know,
have watched for years and that name is just so iconic.
Loftus verse Feld and the stands, you know, imprinted in
your memory and some of the great New Zealand moments.
I can remember Sean Fitzpatrick absolutely thumping the turf in
ninety twenty six after they won that series. You know,
(03:53):
it was at that venue that they did that historic
achievement in Hoker and the Stander and the stands afterwards
with with the dirty dirties. Also the home of Andrew
Murdens pulling the fingers at the crowd for the Crusaders
in ninety nine. I think it was, but he was
born he was, Yeah, But just an incredible venue, you know,
(04:14):
the stands, the history around it, and you know, some
grounds perhaps Kings Park Stadium and Durbin might be one
where I haven't been able to blend that history with
you know, updating it to a modern standard. I think,
you know, Loftus has probably got the balance, you know,
pretty close to right around that. I mean, you know
(04:34):
there are you know, just the iconic stands that that's
still there that you know still linger, the brick work
and everything like that. It was a pretty special experience
to go.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Yeah, the stadium itself had aesthetically doesn't look like it's
changed at all from nine ninety six. But the precinct
surrounding it.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
There's.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
There's a bar, there's supermarkets, there's shops within the vicinity
of the car parks. And then from a game day experience,
I've seen this before, but it was a beautiful day
and just out you know, the stands are in sight
and behind the stadium. I don't know if you call
(05:17):
it a party zone or but there's beer tents everywhere.
Marquee set up a live band at a big stage.
Thousands of people out there, mixing and mingling, having a
great time, great vibes, all tucking in some meat and beers.
Lots of families. It was a seven pm kickoff, but
so many kids. Just a brilliant adversement for how to
(05:41):
for everything that should surround the game. And I was
thinking to myself, you know, there's no reason that eaton
Park Number two in particularly couldn't do that. It was
very simplistic and how it was done, but very well
done and people having a great time. And I know
other venues in South Africa that actually allow people to
come along, park up, have a bryer at the back
(06:04):
of their cars, go to the game and then camp,
come back and after the game and continue drink. Driving
laws in South Africa are pretty lax, I think. But
just the whole vibe surrounding game. It's not just what
happens on the field. It is a real experience.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
It is absolutely and they do that so well both
inside the ground or inside the precinct of the ground
and outside. It felt like a full game day experience.
And I know New Zealand Rugby tried it last year
before the Blood is Low and that had an afternoon kickoff. Look,
the more they should be doing that, the better, And
even if it's a seven o'clock kickoff, it shouldn't be
(06:43):
turning off them doing so because seven o'clock kickoff here. Yeah,
it was probably a bit warmer that would be in
New Zealand at that juncture. But you know, as you say,
families and people out there having an absolute ball. So
I mean, the one thing I would say is that
we were talking about it yesterday, it would have been
perfect for you know, two o'clock, three o'clock local time
kickoff because the sun was blaring down, it was warm,
(07:05):
would have been dry, good Rugby. Fortunately, you know seven o'clock,
you know, a bit cooler and everything like that. But
I mean you can't go too wrong with that.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
I think South Africa, every nation is dictated to by
broadcast revenue, and broadcast is when they want those games.
But you know, you think about historical games in South Africa,
they all seem to be in the afternoon. So it
is a shame, particularly with these tour games. With these
franchise teams having been stripped of their spring box at
(07:38):
the start of their preseason, far from their best, I
think it would have been much more encouraging for fans
to go along mid afternoon and yeah, what aspecta we
can't be afternoon rugby.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
You certainly can't, but let's get into the game itself.
The All Blacks beating the Bulls to the tune of
fifty points to nineteen eight tries to three in the end.
Your thoughts on what we saw from the All Blacks
in that final hit out before they get to the tests.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
It was the best performance of the tour by quite
some distance, and I thought we saw some real improvements
from where they started against the Stormers. I think it's
important to remember that this was largely a scratch All
Black team as well. They've rotated massively through these three games,
had very little training time together. In fact, their training
(08:28):
venue at one of the schools prior to this game
in Durmin, they didn't actually train because the pitch was
deems not for purpose. It had a number of bumps
and it was quite soft, and they're worried about injuries,
so they didn't actually train so maybe they explained some
of the I guess if you're being overly critical and
(08:48):
that watched THEE Aal Blacks themselves the lack of finishing
they created so much. But look, I thought Tyler Tyler
or Lomax, Cody Taylor and Xavier new Mayor and the scrum,
what a statement shunt. That was early doors to steamroll
the Bulls pack. They physically boss the game line dominated
the Bulls. I think they had something like four hundred
and third post contact meters, which is quite staggering. That
(09:12):
they were afforded the time in space to run rampant
on attack, the offloads, the pace, the movement. It really
was a compelling performance and a number of guys putting
their hand up for maybe a handful of test spots
this week.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
I mean Anton Signa is the guy that I would
draw a line under and go has to be in
the test twenty three somewhere because he is playing out
of his skin at the moment. And I thought that
was a hugely compelling performance from Anton Signa in his
pre position and it is referred position to open side flanker,
you know, started against the Stormers. That was late notice
(09:49):
he came in for that game room with Walls Heit
he ruled out and they moved the pack around a
little bit, but this felt like he was dialed in
and you know, I think three turnovers in the end,
he was everywhere in the park, thirteen tackles, Just utterly
impressed by his work around the park. I think he
has to be in that twenty three if we're talking
(10:11):
about players that put their hands up for test selection.
I think he was probably close to being in the mix,
if not in the mix already, but just serve to
remind Dave any of what he can do, and I'd
be very surprised if he's not in that twenty three somewhere.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Absolutely, he was superb Man of the match performance. I
think there is a bit of context around individual performances
in these games, given this forty three spring Rocks or
thereabouts missing from these RC teams. But you can only
play who's in front of her. And he was superb
and he's been a big mover, isn't He was not
(10:47):
a bolted on selection I think for most people in
the July squads. But some of the stats that we've
been privy to behind the scenes around his proficiency at
the breakdown in comparison to others, like to said Grief,
who was going head to head around he was. Really
(11:07):
that's real point of difference for Anton Signa throughout Super
rugby and he has carried that through to these tour games.
Peter Luckeye as well, just he seems to be everywhere
on a pitch and it was quite telling for me
that he was the one that was taken off early,
along with guys like Patrick two below two and you know,
it was very evident that they have been earmarked I
(11:28):
think for the Test team this weekend, and then there
were others as well. I think you could probably read
a fair but into Boden Barrett having a switching from
first five to fallback with Damian McKenzie's injury. I thought
Riquewhanny looks lean and fast.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
How much I think you seem to drop four to
five kilos.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
That's what he said post match, yeah to us, So
he's having a bit of rejuvenation and Tyrol Lomax getting
through sixty minutes I think that's really important in the
context of what's coming with the Box, with their their
scrum strength. He'll come up against Ox neatzsch with starts
or comes off the bench. So yeah, I think it
(12:12):
was a really important performance for the All Blacks and well,
they'll be harsh on themselves. I don't think they could
have done too much more. Look, they probably could have
scored seventy points.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Yeah, they could have, but.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
It was I wouldn't go as far to say as
a statement because of the level of the opposition, And
it was quite telling Renny and Cody Taylor postmatch saying, look, yeah,
we've made progress and we're reasonably content, but we know
that the box are going to be three four fivefold
up on what we've experienced so far.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Yeah, and looked.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
There was a lot of expectation that the Bulls would
provide the sternest test of the three teams before the
test matches, and quite disappointing really. They had a couple
of moments and put some pressure on in the opening
ten to fifteen minutes, but once the All Blacks got
a bit of momentum and got that the first couple
of tries on the board, didn't feel like the Bulls
(13:12):
had much of an answer me. They squed a couple
of tries after halftime, but the game was done at
twenty four zero at the break, and there were some
impressive showings. I thought the number eight Jean de Rudolph
was very good if all Vorster at second five held
his own against the All Blacks midfield, and there were
a couple of other impressive performances around the park as well,
(13:35):
but just lacked that cohesiveness of a team that would
otherwise be in pre season. So you're disappointing from the balls,
and I almost think maybe the All Blacks would have
preferred them to have obviously been a little bit better,
just to give a little bit of stress testing to
the game plans as they head into the spring box.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Absolutely. Willie Laruino's I think a much love figure in Pretoria,
but a couple of he looked like it was running
his own ship, quick taps and it's not really the
Bulls style, So a couple of Bazar moments from him.
If we reflect on these tour games on the whole,
pretty underwhelming, I think, And I think that's because of
(14:17):
the nature of when these where these teams are at
in their seasons, which don't start for another five weeks,
the fact that they've been stripped of all their spring box.
I think it would have been nice for Russy to
protect twenty odd guys, but strengthen these teams a bit more.
When's the next tour to South africail like this twenty
(14:37):
thirty four? Yeah, so a long way in advance. But
let's say old By then you have a blank canvas.
How would you do it differently to vastly improve? I
guess the competitiveness and look, there's thirty thousand people at
that balls game. That's a good turnout. And the opening
game was great, the Sharks, everything around it, the weather,
the turnout, the opposition was hugely underwhelming. So if you
(15:01):
could improve these tour matches in some way, how would
you go about it?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Well? I don't know the you can without a global calendar.
I think that's the big glaring thing. And this may
be a decision that New Zealand Rugby's got to arrive
at at some point, because there's obviously been a push
to have the Nation Rugby Championship moved into the February
March window, aligning that with the six nations. South Africa
very king on it and Australia. I've got an open
(15:28):
mind to it too. Argentina I think would go with
the flow probably around what the other nations go with
New Zealand Rugby against it. But if you are able
to play that in a February March window, then you
have Super Rugby from April through to July potentially maybe
early part of August. That would be the same. Potentially
(15:50):
USC would probably flow around then. So trying to think
what the best scenario would be, but you could probably
have it closer to the end of the URC season,
like maybe smack bang after the final, you have those
first two games a week or so later, and while
you're obviously going to have players that are right the
end of their season, still they're probably not in the
(16:10):
middle of pre season. So maybe that's one way to
do it if you do look towards a global calendar.
Otherwise you're just gonna be plucking players out of preseason.
I don't know that there's a way around it under
this current rugby calendar.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Yeah, it's a massive challenge, isn't it. I think and
New Zealand the're going to face the same scenario. Yeah,
in terms of Super Rugby, team has been out of
season and NPC potentially on when the box come to
New Zealand for the reciprocal tour thirty I think in
the absence of a global calendar, it probably needs some
(16:45):
potential negotiation with Australia. Maybe you play the Bledders loads
now and then this tour takes place in that window,
which will be closer to the USC season. Not sure
the exact dates, but it's problematic. It's challenging in a
highly congested global worlds. But yeah, I think the tour
(17:06):
hasn't lived up to the hype.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I think, yeah, we haven't had it out and out.
When the Stormer's game was to an extent, it was,
you know, fourteen all with not long to go, but
the All Blacks obviously kicked away late in that match.
But the atmosphere has probably been lacking at these games.
Even with thirty thousand and it lost this verse Feld.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
It just felt like it was well, had the balls
been pushing the All Blacks yea, even for forty minutes.
They were down twenty four to oh at halftime and
the crowd's s done. Yeah, they came to life a
wee bit with the comeback, brief comeback, But yeah, you
want the locals to be highly invested as much as possible.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Yeah you do.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
And look, this is a concept that hasn't been rolled
out in thirty years. And thirty years ago the All
Blacks went playing the Bulls, they went playing the Stormers,
they went playing the Northern Trans but they were met
been playing Northern Like you look at the teams they
played in ninety six and it was Bowland and you
know Curry Cup first second division sides that they were
playing on that tour and it was a real drop
(18:06):
off to the midweek opponents. So you know this this
the game yesterday was the first time they all actually
played in Northern transvole side since nineteen seventy six. Now
there are certain reasons why that is the case that
they hadn't played in fifty years, but you know, this
is an untried concept in many ways. So like I'm
sure the look at what worked and what didn't and
(18:27):
and for twenty thirty, yep, we're going to run into
similar issues where you take super Rogogie players back into
their franchises after playing NPC for a couple of weeks whatever.
Well maybe you know it's going to be a congested
calendar because you know there are five New Zealand Super
Rugby sides that I'm sure we'd all love to play
the spring Box with that's logistically possible. With the Springboks
would want to play five two games in New Zealand
(18:48):
plus three Test plus presumably another moneymaker New zuel Moldy.
You know, we're getting up to nine ten matches very
very quickly, so there's going to have to be some
finessing of this concept. But you know, and look, it
has been enjoyable, it's been good, but I think it
can be better.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Yeah, absolutely, And look there's no doubt that the t matches.
Certainly the three in South Africa. I have some firm
thoughts on the one of the money making venture in Baltimore.
I think that's going to be absolutely break players and
yourself media by the time you have to eventually there.
But the three tests in South Africa are going to
(19:27):
be Magic's. There's nothing that will compare to that. But yeah,
I think these tour games need a bit of a rethink.
And there's no it's an imperfect scenario, but I think
it needs a bit of an examination for the future.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Yeah, I'm sure they'll look at it quick one on
the game, what do you make a fabi and Holan's performance.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Yeah, he's highly impressive, isn't he massive work great? I
think he charged down one kick, got at least two
lineout steals and he did that in the opening game
against the Stormers as well, So his line out prowess
as a massive asset for the All Blacks. A couple
of moments with his hands one character, I think, but
(20:10):
he's got a huge engine. He pops up everywhere, so
he's pushing his case. I don't expect him to be
involved in this first test with tupu Vi being on
the blind side and they'll probably go Paddy and Patrick
Tupelo too and Josh Lord to start. So there's three
locks with two loose forwards on the bench. But I
(20:31):
think he will feature prominently throughout this four test series.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Yeah, I think you will too. I think perhaps Cape
Town might be the one that you marked for him
to come in. Like I was impressed by his work rate. Yeah,
a couple of eras he let a certain try go begging,
but for the knock on from the balls, which of
course you know negates everything that went after it. But yeah,
he was made an incredible streak back to you know,
outpaced the chasers to get back to the line but
(20:56):
then fumbled right the stripe to potentially get the balls
a try obviously wasn't to be, but yeah, just his
work rate around the park is phenomenal, so I think
we'll see him at some point in the in this
Test series. We'll get onto the potential makeup of the
All Blacks twenty three in a moment, but obviously we
touched on it last time out. Richie Warner in camp
(21:18):
now saw him walking around Loft's verse fowl yesterday. Artie
star Villa as well. So that the cavalry has arrived
for the All Blacks as they prepare and switch into
testa mode.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Yeah, absolutely. Do you have any concerns about.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Or where?
Speaker 3 (21:35):
No, m Wong is not going to feature in the
first Test. He will feature in some capacity in his
return against the Lions following that first Test. It's Tuesday,
South Africa time, Wednesday morning, New Zealand time. Do you
have any concerns about Artie Severe, cam Roy Will Jordan?
Should they all be fit going into a Test match
(21:56):
having not played for a month.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
Not overly.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I think rest is good and look they've obviously been
dealing with injuries, but they probably would have had a
three week gap if this was a normal year anyway
between end of July and the Rugby Championship starting. So
because we're in a different calendar, I think we're applying
different things and ideas to that and going, well, they
(22:24):
haven't had a warm up game here, will that be
good to go?
Speaker 4 (22:28):
I think there's probably.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Inevitability of a little bit of rust, but I think
what you lose with that quote unquoite rust, you gain
by how good those players are. So I'd be more
than comfortable checking them in there without having played twenty
minutes off the bench. I obviously no ideals to know
you do get in some minutes, but their professional athletes
are I think they'll be fine.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
What about you, well, Jordan's probably the one I have
slight concerns about. I think he's like a racehourse. The
more he plays, the better he gets yes in a rhythm,
and we touched on it last week. Just back injuries
can be a wee bit. Niggli's going to cop a
lot of high ball, so I would have liked him
to have had a run, but it is what it is,
(23:07):
and you'd rather have them out there than they're not
you would.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Indeed, speaking of injuries, Caleb Clark, we haven't touched on
this yet, but ruled out of the tour. That news
coming out Saturday morning, usually on time Friday night hours.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Just we were at dinner.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
We were this at the same dinner where you thought
you made some new friends. Yeah, just unfortunate for Caleb Clark.
You had a lot of injuries last year from memory
that kept him out and then your shoulder tendon rupture
is a hard one for him, and we don't know
how long he's out till and until he gets surgery,
(23:42):
but probably rest of the year. You'd have to say,
I'm not quite sure, but big blow because I'm not
sure you would have started the tests, but I think
he would have been the bench option in twenty three
and that does create a reshuffle.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
But just a blow for the man himself.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah, blow for him, blow for the All Blacks. Unfortunately
for Caleb, his body has endured a number of issues.
I can't recall a season and recent times where he
hasn't had quite significant setbacks that have forced him to
miss the bulk of games, and had he had a
consistent run, it would have certainly furthered his case as
(24:21):
an incumbent on that on that left wing, and there's
not really I think fair Young and North was probably
the closest light for like replacement. But Clark is one
of the all blacks most damaging ball runners in terms
of meet has made breaking tackles. He's probably the best
era or exponent under the high ball, So it would
(24:43):
have been a huge asset to counter interfuse. That's high
ball barage that the box are going to send it them.
So and you're right, he would have been injected off
the bench I think for this first test. So that
opens up a spot. I think probably you're looking at
fair young enough for Lee Very Carter and Rieka Alwaoney
competing for that one position on the on the bench now.
(25:05):
But yeah, hugely disappointing for Caleb. He's a very affable guy,
likable guy, and yeah, I guess he'll start the rehead
process now I go da have surgery.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah, unfortunate for him. We still don't know about Damon
McKenzie whether he will be fit for this first test.
Your backs are hopeful, but he has gone from being
perhaps not much of a worry. That was the initial
thought after the Sharks game to actually, I'm not sure
he's going to be ready, so we'll see if he
can get back on the park. But it didn't sound positive,
did it.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
No, he's been a wee bit of mixed messages around
that as it was like, yeah, nothing to see here,
and then.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Maybe there is something to say.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
I saw some footage of him around training this week
earlier this week and he was still walking with a
significant limp. And we are Sunday here in South Africa
and the All Blacks traditionally well typically they name their
team internally on a Monday, so I don't think that
(26:04):
leaves enough time to recover. Dave Rennie said he was
less confident about McKenzie than Will Jordan and Cam Rouygard.
So I don't expect Amien to play this weekend. I
think in a four test series, if you throw him
out there against the box in particular, you risk losing
him for the series. So look, it's potentially a big
blow because McKenzie has been Renie's man at fullback. Josh
(26:29):
Morby and Bodenbarre are the only other ones to start
at full back in his six game tenure. And look,
McKenzie and Love we're developing quite a nice combination due playmakers.
McKenzie often comes in first receiver to alleviate that playmaking
responsibility on Love. So let's say he's ruled out, who
(26:52):
starts at fullback?
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Well, it's pretty good time for you to go through
the twenty threes. If he's ruled out, I think Boden
Barrett starts at fullback. Look, I'd have some reservations, but
I still think he's the best player for the job.
If Damien Kenzie is not fit. Will Jordan hasn't played
there under Dave Renny, Josh Morby has, but I think
(27:16):
Boden Barrett hasn't been the best to form. But I
think if you can give him a role to play
in a Test match like this at Alice Park, I
think he can do a job for you. So yeah,
I'd go Boden Barrett full back, you I think.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
So it doesn't fill me with a great deal of
confidence for their all blacks of belity to diffuse. That's
that bearraage of bombs that's coming their way. But he
has a vast experience one hundred and forty four tests
and he did look vastly better at fullback against the
Bulls than he did at first five and that underwhelming
performance against the Stormers. He had that nice little chip
(27:58):
kick from the backfield. I think it was Leader Ricardo
who regathered it. He gave the assist for Josh Morby
miss one cover tackle, which it's pretty hard when you're
streaking across field and it's quite easy to get stepped through.
One wild way would pass against the ball. So a
bit of a mixed bag, but it was certainly a
big step forward for Boden. He looked far more comfortable,
(28:20):
with much more time and space in the backfield. His
decision making was largely good, So Bill Blacks publicly have
professed their confidence in him. They've talked about how well
he's been training. And it does feel like the path
of least destruction because then you can still select Josh
Morby and Will Jordan provided he's fit. On the wings.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
There is a shortage of fullbacks though, isn't there. And look,
we've got a lot of tens that can play fullback,
but an out and out fullback per se, just don't
really have them many You give thinks someone like Callum
Hark and he's not on this tour. Even then he's
a ten Zarhn Sullivan potentially, but he's probably never quite
kicked on as you would have th watched Ammonia.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Naraua is the other one in the squad. Came on
and replaced McKenzie against the Sharks, and I really like Naraha.
I think he's good in the ear. He's got he's versatile,
he's got good skills, he's pretty calm and composed. He's
played a bit of fullback and wing, so he could
be a big mover. But I don't think there's any
chance that he starts at fallback. So it's pretty much
(29:22):
a choice I think between what Bowden will, Jordan and
maybe Josh Morby. But as you say, Morby's only played
two tests.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
I can't see them throwing him.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
To throw him and Alice Park the most hostile atmosphere
in the world, Ah, yeah, be a big risk.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
It would be your wingers. Then I'm going Morbige Jordan. Yeah,
assuming I think Jordan will be fit.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
I think so. Dave Renie has said the whole way
through to he is reasonably confident, So I think he starts,
and then you've got your midfield of Quintipire Jordi Barrett's
Ruben Love and Cam Ruger provided he's foot. What about
the composition of your loose.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Forwards, Well, I think the All Blacks will stick to
two provide Jacobson and Ardie Salville. I can't see them
differentiating from that. I mean, Angeon Signa had a huge
game at open side flankert, but Dave Rennie rolled out
Luke Jacobson at open side in the three games in July.
He's been a captain of this team over the last
(30:25):
few weeks. I think he's clearly Renny's guy in that
jersey at the moment. So I can't see them changing yourself.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Yeah, I think so. I think they like Supervise added
heights at the line out and has ability to roam
the edge. I think it does diminish the Oblix turnover
ability at the breakdown and the ability to spark the
counter attack, which has been a big driver from Rennie.
(30:53):
But maybe you can look at that later in the
game when you bring it on a Signa and Luckye
from the bench. So then you got probably Patty and
Picture Tupeloto and Josh Lord at Locke. We're thinking Fabian
doesn't start.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
I don't think Fabian makes it twenty three. This time
there's a chance potentially they go to a Lord two
and Darry Josh Lord's been playing well.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
I can't see that. I think Darry's probably firm fourth
choice lot maybe in fifth behind if you're considering to
I just.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Like the way that Darry has been carrying the ball
on this tour. And I think again to South African's
bending the liners is really vital and having a prop
that is willing just to walk and run into those
big bodies and sorry Locke rather right, and then also
can Gathers don't But I just like the way that
he's kicked on over the last few months. And you know,
(31:45):
I think you're right. I think it's Lord and toep
a Load two. But I just wonder whether they may
look at Sam Dearry potentially front row.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Ethan the group, Cody Taylor, and I'd probably I know
he hasn't hasn't had a lot of rugby, but I
think I'm a big tyro Lo Max fan. I think
he's a great scrummager, probably a little bit more dynamic
around the field, but it's a toss up between him
and yours.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah it is, Yeah, And I would look I'd probably
go New just on the basis that Lomax hasn't had
much rug be and I think you better to bring
him off the bench in the second spell. But wouldn't
have any quibbles if Anny backs and to come on
and start. So we're buying large, we're same fifteen.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Yeah, I think most people would predict that it's just fullbacks.
The real flashpoint, isn't it?
Speaker 4 (32:28):
It is, And.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
It is a real flashpoint because I think you scrum
your mall defense and your high ball ability are going
to be put in the furnace against the box. So
Bill Blacks know that they know it's coming. But diffusing
it's another thing.
Speaker 4 (32:47):
Isn't there is? Indeed the bench? Are you going a
five to three or six two or seven to one?
What are you thinking five to three two?
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Other injury concerns eving new Mayor was brought off just
after halftime or at halftime, whether we are keilles issue
and courtes a knock on the knee, so that could
affect the makeup. If it doesn't, I would have new
Mayor and one of those tight heads, and then I
(33:14):
think is your clear second choice? Yep, then you've got
your too loose forwards. I would have Preceton Kyle Preston
no matter what I think. If Ratmus fits, I think
Rennie will probably favor.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Him well, especially on the high velt. I would go
Preston as well. I think that he's a much better
kicker from the base of the ruck than Ratima and
on the high velt where you can get a lot
more distance. I think that's valuable. He can get you
out of trouble use that to his advantage. So I
would also go Preston. They do seem to have settled
(33:49):
on Ratima as the backup to Cam roy Guard, and
the fact that roy Guard's coming back from injury probably
situs that maybe wouldn't go close to eighty minutes. I mean,
he went pretty deep in some of those test matches
in July. Clearly, I think there's a feeling that there's
roy Garden and Daylight in this camp. But they didn't
get to test out a six or two bench with
the Leroy Carter and the the Test match and the
(34:10):
club matches. So yeah, I'm with you, I'd start Preston.
I'm not sure they would. They will, but if I
was s letting other.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Preston, he's also performed that role all year. Yeah, the
Crusaders that that's a emo, and I think he he
brings a real attacking edge, So here I would have Pristain.
Then you've got I think Antlina Brown's locked as your
second center cover. And then as you mentioned, it was
(34:39):
contestable for the outside, which your blacks I think will
want to carry. I would go for young Enough for
I think if you bring him on against tiring defenders,
he always beats the first man. I know he's in
experience and it's a big occasion, but he's been in
there for a while now, so he would be the
guy that I would go for.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yeah, I think Riko Yuanni is worthy of further consideration.
I thought he was very good against the bulls as
we moved your in the back line a little bit
initially against his will, but now he's on board with it,
and as we touched on earlier, is lighter. It just
feels more nimble, feels like he's mentally in the right
(35:21):
head space for the series. So I would probably look
at him potentially. And if you're taking Yuannie on the bench,
I'm not sure you take Leonnet Brown as well. You
Annie can cover midfield. He can cover outside backs, so
maybe you look at for he as well potentially on
the bench in that scenariogo and until Lenet Brown doesn't
(35:44):
get there. I get why they take him on there
for that specialist midfield role, but I'm not sure he's We.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Don't really need it because someone who covers sick and
and sin. Because you've got Quinti.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
Pie, yeah, you can slide.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Yeah, So if Jordie was injured, Quinn can go to thirteen.
Or if Quinn's injured, then you've got sense to cover.
So that's trump card of Lenna Brown's of covering sicken
and censor.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
It is mitigated by ye. And I'm not overly convinced
about him as a bench option either. I think he's
a much bitter starter than he is a bench option
len At Brown. I almost think like sometimes he does
tries it a little too much when he comes off
the bench, overplays his hand a little bit. We've seen
him get a few yellow cards when he's come off
come on late in games as well, So I'm just
(36:26):
not sure that bench role necessarily is one that suits him.
Been impressed by what he's done on this too. I
think he's been really really good. But if I was speaking,
I go Yuanni and Fear. We've talked about offline about
sex two bench, but I don't think they're gonna do
that for this test, are they.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
No.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
I see that Leroy Carter played really well last night.
Look he turned over the ball a few times. Option Yeah,
but I don't know that this room for him this
twenty three, not yet.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
But look, there's going to be casualties throughout this series.
It's going to be as well.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
I don't think you can You can't play the same
twenty three four weeks in a row against South Africa. No,
you couldn't do it in a World Cup, played the
same squad four weeks in a row. Would in the
four You certainly can't do it against the old foe.
So there's going to have to be some tweaking along
the way. And I'm sure the All Blacks have considered
this and they're planning. Is that Test one might look
(37:21):
like this at Alice Park, But will I tell me
we get to back to F and B Stadium in
Sueto and Tests three in Baltimore, it's probably gonna look
a lot different in terms of the makeup of some
of those twenty threes.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
Yeah, and the context of the series will have a
big impact on that if you go to Baltimore and
you're out of the series and it allows a bit
more rotation. The only other point to note is if
Barrett doesn't start at fullback, he almost has to be
on the bench because otherwise without McKenzie you don't have
first five cover.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
Yeah, that's a good point. I didn't thought of that.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
So I think that's another consideration for why or he
will be in the twenty three.
Speaker 4 (38:04):
I'd almost rather Jacob come off the bench than Barrett. No,
I don't agree with that.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
I thought Jacob had some moments, but I don't think
he's ready for an alis Park occasion.
Speaker 4 (38:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
But a feedback he thoughted this odd to me from
Andrew good A. Liam just listening to the lad As
Rugby direct to you, and Elliott explained that whilst you
guys understood the intricacies of the Mornger situation, usked me
immortals didn't have a clue. I thought that was a
bit patronizing of you, fellers. Whilst you may think players
should be picked from anywhere and seem to think the
whole public think the same way, that is not necessarily
(38:42):
the case. I for one agreement, I for one agree
with Steve Lancaster. I think whilst it would be advantageous
in the short term, it would be detrimental to our
local game and therefore all Black Pathway in the long term.
Enjoy the podcast, though a bit long between drinks sometimes
cheers Andy, Apologies if it came across that way, Andy,
It didn't mean to be condescending. No, it was more
(39:02):
that I think if you are a casual fan, it's
hard to explain to someone, you know, why Richie Wonger
isn't available for this series, and it gets very long
winded as well, you know, only signed eighteen months rather
than two, you know, trying to explain that. I just
don't think it passes the pub test. So that was
more what I and you were trying to put forward.
So apologies if I came across like that.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Yeah, No, thanks for listening and welcome all feedback. I
think that gist of it is the eligibility sagas and
the sabbaticals and the companies and goings. It just needs
simplification that that's that. That's the general theme. What about
the spring box broadly speaking, what do we expect from them?
(39:44):
Are they going to play any more rugby? With Tony
Brown and their mix? Who do you expect to start
at first five? SASA has just come back and played
one game against the Pumas, wasn't overly impressive. Do they
go Andre Pollard? Did they go Money Labock? How are
they going to approach this?
Speaker 2 (40:02):
I've got no idea, Like I've literally got no idea
where Russy will go with And I think that's you know,
it's one of the beauties of rugby and the way
that the Springboks have been able to build so much
depth is that they have options and whoever Russia Erasmus
Pecks will have, you know, every chance of going out
there and performing extremely well. And I don't mean that,
(40:25):
and I haven't done my rig sich way. I just
don't have a steer as to which way it's going
to go. If I had to put money on it, well,
I'd probably think Paulard plays at Alice Park and then
the local boy Sasha plays Stormer's favorite it plays it
at Cape Town the following week.
Speaker 4 (40:39):
But I don't have a steer. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
I mean, whatever team he puts out is going to
be incredibly strong. So they've got great players across the park.
And you know Russia, Erasmus could well pick one team
for Joe Burke and change it out entirely for the
following week. That's where the Springboks team is. With the
depth that he's built.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Yeah, I think they have phenomenal depth, don't they? And
I think Russy will rotate the result dependent to a degree,
but he will use that depth. I suspect they might
go many laboc I think he started last time out
against the All Blacks and that demolition job, and Wellington
(41:20):
not too sure about the wider squad. It sounds like
Scalisi could be missing for at least the first one
maybe two tests, so they might be without the talismanic captain.
But again they've got great depth and the loose forwards.
This is just moving from those tour matches to these
massive challenges. Yeah, the All Blacks haven't won in South
Africa in four years. I think they've won what one
(41:42):
in their past five against the box maybe six Off
the top of my head, World Champions, spiritual Home. Everything
stacked against the All Blacks there, well it is, but yeah,
I mean the Dave and he's only been in charge
for six games, so it has a series come too
soon for them?
Speaker 2 (42:04):
It may have done, but I think we've seen some
shifts from the All Black that leave me in a
more confident space approaching this Test series than I was
at the end of last year.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
Absolutely so absolute trainery.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Yeah yeah, So look, whatever way you spin, it is
going to be daunting. You know, the All Blacks have
only won one Test series in South Africa nine that's
how hard this is. It's only ever been achieved once.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
So well it hasn't been that many opportunity, No, there hasn't,
but that is.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
And and it hasn't happened for thirty years. But that
is what they're dealing with here, the All Blacks. They're
dealing you know, and going against history, and that's against
spring box sides that have been very, very good and
this one's a great spring box side. So huge mountain
to climb for the All Blacks. But I think there
are some systems in place that they can stress the
(43:03):
Springboks in certain areas. I know, the lot's been made
around the All Blacks wanting to play quick and that's
been pushed back a little bit by the South African
fans as ever, But you know, this is what test
rugby is all about, as a combatants playing different styles
and pushing each other on the rugby field. So broadly speaking,
it's a huge challenge for the All Blacks, but I
(43:26):
think they're ready to walk towards it with it that
comes out with a win. I don't know, but I
think they have to go on with some quote unquote optimism.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
Does that word again, Yeah, for sure. Look, I think
it will be a quintessential clash of styles. I think
the Box will go to their DNA, their scrum. They're
all the high ball, their brutality, and the All Blacks
will try and play that up tempo game and it's
going to be intriguing to see whether they can get
(43:55):
that platform, whether they can generate that quick rockball. In particular,
because the Box will come for them there in a
big way. It's not just their loose forwards, it's their locks.
It's Malcolm Marx, one of the best turnover exponents in
the world, and it's a huge occasion for a number
(44:16):
of players. Twenty one of this forty four man squad
haven't played the spring Box in South Africa before and
Rennie hasn't had a lot of time with this group.
I agree that they have made some massive shifts. I
think they have the ability to stretch and stress the
spring box. I do worry a wee bit about some
(44:37):
of their high risk, high reward play, you know, jeez,
I think about you know, they were running the ball
from ten meters up from their own line against the
balls and it didn't noise come off. And if that
doesn't come off against the box, it's pandemomi.
Speaker 4 (44:53):
Yeah it is.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
And that's the one warrior I take out of it
is that they weren't forced into situations where they needed
to keep the school board taking over and putting having
to respond to pressure against the you know, the provincial teams.
They didn't have a shot at appenal goal in the
three matches. They get shot at points. They're going to
have to take them against South Africa, so they're going
(45:14):
to have to play a little bit differently. You know,
optism is good to a point, but you also going
to have to keep the scoreboard taking over and put
some pressure on. So that would be a concern. Heating
in well, and let's be positive. You know, the all
Blacks do have a great recent record at Alice Park.
I think altitude in many ways suits the style that
they want to play, to bring fatigue into the game,
to run the spring box off their feet. Whether they
(45:35):
can do that or not another thing entirely. But they
are in a much better place than they were at
the back end of last year. Just for the record,
the tab the odds South Africa at dollar forty two
and abes to eighty, so that sort of.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Tells you where favoritism sits and how likely the odds
makers view an All Blacks victory. But can't wait. There
is no better venue in the world than Alice Park
and that will be absolutely heaving for this game.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
Yeap, can't wait. We'll be back with another check in
but later in the week. Ones the All Blacks have
named their team for the game on Sunday morning. Thanks
to Mark Kelly for producing. We are powered by PORKLIFB Solutions,
lifting you and your business to a highly
Speaker 1 (46:30):
For more from News Talk st B, listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to a podcast from Newstalks EDB. Follow this
and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio, Straight
down the Middle Sky try to get inside the game
(00:30):
from every end goal. It's Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith
and Leam Navier powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Folkliff Solutions, lifting you
and your business to a higher level. Elligant Smith, Liam
Napier is always Episode two hundred and fifty one of
Rugby Direct. Missed the two fifty milestone the other day.
Didn't even realize until the episode we had live online
and here we are with two fifty one cheap as
(00:58):
didn't feel song ago that we had episode one hundred
little and two fifty.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
That's all right, definitely passed us by. I have to
raise a castle glass at some stage to that milestone.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, absolutely, no one else I'd want to do it
with that. Well, we're speaking of raising a glass. We
were up at dinner the other night and had some
very interesting company, not at our table per se, but
some members of some interesting activities perhaps in Johannesburg.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Yeah, it was intriguing, wasn't it. Us These people came
in just to set the scene, and they look rather important.
There was quite a fuss being made, and they had
some bodyguards who were fully fully stopped, fully.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Armed, no shortage of guns.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
And I've said to the waiter, you know what's happening
over there? Are they famous as someone I should know?
And this is and I apologize in advance.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
You're going to do the extent he's going to do the.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
He goes there. They are business people.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
They do a lot of business, a lot of.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Business, some local gangsters. I wanted to go say hello
and introduced myself, but was told in no uncertain terms
not to by Elliott's and our colleague Jamie Wall. So
there's one little tour story snippet for you along the way.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Absolutely, Look there have been a few others as well.
We went up to Pratory. We'll get onto some rugby
in a moment, went up to Pratory for game day.
You drove up, We drove and I was in charge.
It was a rotational basis of the music. Some good stuff, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
But a Fleetwood, Mac, Tracy Chapman.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Jim radio Head, Smashing Pumpkins. It was a good variety.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
It was a few complications at the start, turned out
my license have expired. Yes, I've had it for ten
years and it's one of the last things you'd expect
to check. But yeah, a few negotiations at the local
car hire place and we overcame that hurdle eventually on
(03:07):
our way.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
So yeah, you did well.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
I'll give you a music assortment. A bit of a tick?
Was it? About forty five minutes up the up the
highway to Pretoria one night there? What about Loftus first
first occasion there? It's a very very iconic rugby venue
in South Africa. What did you make of that from?
I guess a rugby as a rugby fan.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah, loved it. I mean this is a ground that
I hadn't been to before, but one that I, you know,
have watched for years and that name is just so iconic.
Loftus verse Feld and the stands, you know, imprinted in
your memory and some of the great New Zealand moments.
I can remember Sean Fitzpatrick absolutely thumping the turf in
ninety twenty six after they won that series. You know,
(03:53):
it was at that venue that they did that historic
achievement in Hoker and the Stander and the stands afterwards
with with the dirty dirties. Also the home of Andrew
Murdens pulling the fingers at the crowd for the Crusaders
in ninety nine. I think it was, but he was
born he was, Yeah, But just an incredible venue, you know,
(04:14):
the stands, the history around it, and you know, some
grounds perhaps Kings Park Stadium and Durbin might be one
where I haven't been able to blend that history with
you know, updating it to a modern standard. I think,
you know, Loftus has probably got the balance, you know,
pretty close to right around that. I mean, you know
(04:34):
there are you know, just the iconic stands that that's
still there that you know still linger, the brick work
and everything like that. It was a pretty special experience
to go.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Yeah, the stadium itself had aesthetically doesn't look like it's
changed at all from nine ninety six. But the precinct
surrounding it.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
There's.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
There's a bar, there's supermarkets, there's shops within the vicinity
of the car parks. And then from a game day experience,
I've seen this before, but it was a beautiful day
and just out you know, the stands are in sight
and behind the stadium. I don't know if you call
(05:17):
it a party zone or but there's beer tents everywhere.
Marquee set up a live band at a big stage.
Thousands of people out there, mixing and mingling, having a
great time, great vibes, all tucking in some meat and beers.
Lots of families. It was a seven pm kickoff, but
so many kids. Just a brilliant adversement for how to
(05:41):
for everything that should surround the game. And I was
thinking to myself, you know, there's no reason that eaton
Park Number two in particularly couldn't do that. It was
very simplistic and how it was done, but very well
done and people having a great time. And I know
other venues in South Africa that actually allow people to
come along, park up, have a bryer at the back
(06:04):
of their cars, go to the game and then camp,
come back and after the game and continue drink. Driving
laws in South Africa are pretty lax, I think. But
just the whole vibe surrounding game. It's not just what
happens on the field. It is a real experience.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
It is absolutely and they do that so well both
inside the ground or inside the precinct of the ground
and outside. It felt like a full game day experience.
And I know New Zealand Rugby tried it last year
before the Blood is Low and that had an afternoon kickoff. Look,
the more they should be doing that, the better, And
even if it's a seven o'clock kickoff, it shouldn't be
(06:43):
turning off them doing so because seven o'clock kickoff here. Yeah,
it was probably a bit warmer that would be in
New Zealand at that juncture. But you know, as you say,
families and people out there having an absolute ball. So
I mean, the one thing I would say is that
we were talking about it yesterday, it would have been
perfect for you know, two o'clock, three o'clock local time
kickoff because the sun was blaring down, it was warm,
(07:05):
would have been dry, good Rugby. Fortunately, you know seven o'clock,
you know, a bit cooler and everything like that. But
I mean you can't go too wrong with that.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
I think South Africa, every nation is dictated to by
broadcast revenue, and broadcast is when they want those games.
But you know, you think about historical games in South Africa,
they all seem to be in the afternoon. So it
is a shame, particularly with these tour games. With these
franchise teams having been stripped of their spring box at
(07:38):
the start of their preseason, far from their best, I
think it would have been much more encouraging for fans
to go along mid afternoon and yeah, what aspecta we
can't be afternoon rugby.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
You certainly can't, but let's get into the game itself.
The All Blacks beating the Bulls to the tune of
fifty points to nineteen eight tries to three in the end.
Your thoughts on what we saw from the All Blacks
in that final hit out before they get to the tests.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
It was the best performance of the tour by quite
some distance, and I thought we saw some real improvements
from where they started against the Stormers. I think it's
important to remember that this was largely a scratch All
Black team as well. They've rotated massively through these three games,
had very little training time together. In fact, their training
(08:28):
venue at one of the schools prior to this game
in Durmin, they didn't actually train because the pitch was
deems not for purpose. It had a number of bumps
and it was quite soft, and they're worried about injuries,
so they didn't actually train so maybe they explained some
of the I guess if you're being overly critical and
(08:48):
that watched THEE Aal Blacks themselves the lack of finishing
they created so much. But look, I thought Tyler Tyler
or Lomax, Cody Taylor and Xavier new Mayor and the scrum,
what a statement shunt. That was early doors to steamroll
the Bulls pack. They physically boss the game line dominated
the Bulls. I think they had something like four hundred
and third post contact meters, which is quite staggering. That
(09:12):
they were afforded the time in space to run rampant
on attack, the offloads, the pace, the movement. It really
was a compelling performance and a number of guys putting
their hand up for maybe a handful of test spots
this week.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
I mean Anton Signa is the guy that I would
draw a line under and go has to be in
the test twenty three somewhere because he is playing out
of his skin at the moment. And I thought that
was a hugely compelling performance from Anton Signa in his
pre position and it is referred position to open side flanker,
you know, started against the Stormers. That was late notice
(09:49):
he came in for that game room with Walls Heit
he ruled out and they moved the pack around a
little bit, but this felt like he was dialed in
and you know, I think three turnovers in the end,
he was everywhere in the park, thirteen tackles, Just utterly
impressed by his work around the park. I think he
has to be in that twenty three if we're talking
(10:11):
about players that put their hands up for test selection.
I think he was probably close to being in the mix,
if not in the mix already, but just serve to
remind Dave any of what he can do, and I'd
be very surprised if he's not in that twenty three somewhere.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Absolutely, he was superb Man of the match performance. I
think there is a bit of context around individual performances
in these games, given this forty three spring Rocks or
thereabouts missing from these RC teams. But you can only
play who's in front of her. And he was superb
and he's been a big mover, isn't He was not
(10:47):
a bolted on selection I think for most people in
the July squads. But some of the stats that we've
been privy to behind the scenes around his proficiency at
the breakdown in comparison to others, like to said Grief,
who was going head to head around he was. Really
(11:07):
that's real point of difference for Anton Signa throughout Super
rugby and he has carried that through to these tour games.
Peter Luckeye as well, just he seems to be everywhere
on a pitch and it was quite telling for me
that he was the one that was taken off early,
along with guys like Patrick two below two and you know,
it was very evident that they have been earmarked I
(11:28):
think for the Test team this weekend, and then there
were others as well. I think you could probably read
a fair but into Boden Barrett having a switching from
first five to fallback with Damian McKenzie's injury. I thought
Riquewhanny looks lean and fast.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
How much I think you seem to drop four to
five kilos.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
That's what he said post match, yeah to us, So
he's having a bit of rejuvenation and Tyrol Lomax getting
through sixty minutes I think that's really important in the
context of what's coming with the Box, with their their
scrum strength. He'll come up against Ox neatzsch with starts
or comes off the bench. So yeah, I think it
(12:12):
was a really important performance for the All Blacks and well,
they'll be harsh on themselves. I don't think they could
have done too much more. Look, they probably could have
scored seventy points.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Yeah, they could have, but.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
It was I wouldn't go as far to say as
a statement because of the level of the opposition, And
it was quite telling Renny and Cody Taylor postmatch saying, look, yeah,
we've made progress and we're reasonably content, but we know
that the box are going to be three four fivefold
up on what we've experienced so far.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Yeah, and looked.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
There was a lot of expectation that the Bulls would
provide the sternest test of the three teams before the
test matches, and quite disappointing really. They had a couple
of moments and put some pressure on in the opening
ten to fifteen minutes, but once the All Blacks got
a bit of momentum and got that the first couple
of tries on the board, didn't feel like the Bulls
(13:12):
had much of an answer me. They squed a couple
of tries after halftime, but the game was done at
twenty four zero at the break, and there were some
impressive showings. I thought the number eight Jean de Rudolph
was very good if all Vorster at second five held
his own against the All Blacks midfield, and there were
a couple of other impressive performances around the park as well,
(13:35):
but just lacked that cohesiveness of a team that would
otherwise be in pre season. So you're disappointing from the balls,
and I almost think maybe the All Blacks would have
preferred them to have obviously been a little bit better,
just to give a little bit of stress testing to
the game plans as they head into the spring box.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Absolutely. Willie Laruino's I think a much love figure in Pretoria,
but a couple of he looked like it was running
his own ship, quick taps and it's not really the
Bulls style, So a couple of Bazar moments from him.
If we reflect on these tour games on the whole,
pretty underwhelming, I think, And I think that's because of
(14:17):
the nature of when these where these teams are at
in their seasons, which don't start for another five weeks,
the fact that they've been stripped of all their spring box.
I think it would have been nice for Russy to
protect twenty odd guys, but strengthen these teams a bit more.
When's the next tour to South africail like this twenty
(14:37):
thirty four? Yeah, so a long way in advance. But
let's say old By then you have a blank canvas.
How would you do it differently to vastly improve? I
guess the competitiveness and look, there's thirty thousand people at
that balls game. That's a good turnout. And the opening
game was great, the Sharks, everything around it, the weather,
the turnout, the opposition was hugely underwhelming. So if you
(15:01):
could improve these tour matches in some way, how would
you go about it?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Well? I don't know the you can without a global calendar.
I think that's the big glaring thing. And this may
be a decision that New Zealand Rugby's got to arrive
at at some point, because there's obviously been a push
to have the Nation Rugby Championship moved into the February
March window, aligning that with the six nations. South Africa
very king on it and Australia. I've got an open
(15:28):
mind to it too. Argentina I think would go with
the flow probably around what the other nations go with
New Zealand Rugby against it. But if you are able
to play that in a February March window, then you
have Super Rugby from April through to July potentially maybe
early part of August. That would be the same. Potentially
(15:50):
USC would probably flow around then. So trying to think
what the best scenario would be, but you could probably
have it closer to the end of the URC season,
like maybe smack bang after the final, you have those
first two games a week or so later, and while
you're obviously going to have players that are right the
end of their season, still they're probably not in the
(16:10):
middle of pre season. So maybe that's one way to
do it if you do look towards a global calendar.
Otherwise you're just gonna be plucking players out of preseason.
I don't know that there's a way around it under
this current rugby calendar.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Yeah, it's a massive challenge, isn't it. I think and
New Zealand the're going to face the same scenario. Yeah,
in terms of Super Rugby, team has been out of
season and NPC potentially on when the box come to
New Zealand for the reciprocal tour thirty I think in
the absence of a global calendar, it probably needs some
(16:45):
potential negotiation with Australia. Maybe you play the Bledders loads
now and then this tour takes place in that window,
which will be closer to the USC season. Not sure
the exact dates, but it's problematic. It's challenging in a
highly congested global worlds. But yeah, I think the tour
(17:06):
hasn't lived up to the hype.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I think, yeah, we haven't had it out and out.
When the Stormer's game was to an extent, it was,
you know, fourteen all with not long to go, but
the All Blacks obviously kicked away late in that match.
But the atmosphere has probably been lacking at these games.
Even with thirty thousand and it lost this verse Feld.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
It just felt like it was well, had the balls
been pushing the All Blacks yea, even for forty minutes.
They were down twenty four to oh at halftime and
the crowd's s done. Yeah, they came to life a
wee bit with the comeback, brief comeback, But yeah, you
want the locals to be highly invested as much as possible.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Yeah you do.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
And look, this is a concept that hasn't been rolled
out in thirty years. And thirty years ago the All
Blacks went playing the Bulls, they went playing the Stormers,
they went playing the Northern Trans but they were met
been playing Northern Like you look at the teams they
played in ninety six and it was Bowland and you
know Curry Cup first second division sides that they were
playing on that tour and it was a real drop
(18:06):
off to the midweek opponents. So you know this this
the game yesterday was the first time they all actually
played in Northern transvole side since nineteen seventy six. Now
there are certain reasons why that is the case that
they hadn't played in fifty years, but you know, this
is an untried concept in many ways. So like I'm
sure the look at what worked and what didn't and
(18:27):
and for twenty thirty, yep, we're going to run into
similar issues where you take super Rogogie players back into
their franchises after playing NPC for a couple of weeks whatever.
Well maybe you know it's going to be a congested
calendar because you know there are five New Zealand Super
Rugby sides that I'm sure we'd all love to play
the spring Box with that's logistically possible. With the Springboks
would want to play five two games in New Zealand
(18:48):
plus three Test plus presumably another moneymaker New zuel Moldy.
You know, we're getting up to nine ten matches very
very quickly, so there's going to have to be some
finessing of this concept. But you know, and look, it
has been enjoyable, it's been good, but I think it
can be better.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Yeah, absolutely, And look there's no doubt that the t matches.
Certainly the three in South Africa. I have some firm
thoughts on the one of the money making venture in Baltimore.
I think that's going to be absolutely break players and
yourself media by the time you have to eventually there.
But the three tests in South Africa are going to
(19:27):
be Magic's. There's nothing that will compare to that. But yeah,
I think these tour games need a bit of a rethink.
And there's no it's an imperfect scenario, but I think
it needs a bit of an examination for the future.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Yeah, I'm sure they'll look at it quick one on
the game, what do you make a fabi and Holan's performance.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Yeah, he's highly impressive, isn't he massive work great? I
think he charged down one kick, got at least two
lineout steals and he did that in the opening game
against the Stormers as well, So his line out prowess
as a massive asset for the All Blacks. A couple
of moments with his hands one character, I think, but
(20:10):
he's got a huge engine. He pops up everywhere, so
he's pushing his case. I don't expect him to be
involved in this first test with tupu Vi being on
the blind side and they'll probably go Paddy and Patrick
Tupelo too and Josh Lord to start. So there's three
locks with two loose forwards on the bench. But I
(20:31):
think he will feature prominently throughout this four test series.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Yeah, I think you will too. I think perhaps Cape
Town might be the one that you marked for him
to come in. Like I was impressed by his work rate. Yeah,
a couple of eras he let a certain try go begging,
but for the knock on from the balls, which of
course you know negates everything that went after it. But yeah,
he was made an incredible streak back to you know,
outpaced the chasers to get back to the line but
(20:56):
then fumbled right the stripe to potentially get the balls
a try obviously wasn't to be, but yeah, just his
work rate around the park is phenomenal, so I think
we'll see him at some point in the in this
Test series. We'll get onto the potential makeup of the
All Blacks twenty three in a moment, but obviously we
touched on it last time out. Richie Warner in camp
(21:18):
now saw him walking around Loft's verse fowl yesterday. Artie
star Villa as well. So that the cavalry has arrived
for the All Blacks as they prepare and switch into
testa mode.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Yeah, absolutely. Do you have any concerns about.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Or where?
Speaker 3 (21:35):
No, m Wong is not going to feature in the
first Test. He will feature in some capacity in his
return against the Lions following that first Test. It's Tuesday,
South Africa time, Wednesday morning, New Zealand time. Do you
have any concerns about Artie Severe, cam Roy Will Jordan?
Should they all be fit going into a Test match
(21:56):
having not played for a month.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
Not overly.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I think rest is good and look they've obviously been
dealing with injuries, but they probably would have had a
three week gap if this was a normal year anyway
between end of July and the Rugby Championship starting. So
because we're in a different calendar, I think we're applying
different things and ideas to that and going, well, they
(22:24):
haven't had a warm up game here, will that be
good to go?
Speaker 4 (22:28):
I think there's probably.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Inevitability of a little bit of rust, but I think
what you lose with that quote unquoite rust, you gain
by how good those players are. So I'd be more
than comfortable checking them in there without having played twenty
minutes off the bench. I obviously no ideals to know
you do get in some minutes, but their professional athletes
are I think they'll be fine.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
What about you, well, Jordan's probably the one I have
slight concerns about. I think he's like a racehourse. The
more he plays, the better he gets yes in a rhythm,
and we touched on it last week. Just back injuries
can be a wee bit. Niggli's going to cop a
lot of high ball, so I would have liked him
to have had a run, but it is what it is,
(23:07):
and you'd rather have them out there than they're not
you would.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Indeed, speaking of injuries, Caleb Clark, we haven't touched on
this yet, but ruled out of the tour. That news
coming out Saturday morning, usually on time Friday night hours.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Just we were at dinner.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
We were this at the same dinner where you thought
you made some new friends. Yeah, just unfortunate for Caleb Clark.
You had a lot of injuries last year from memory
that kept him out and then your shoulder tendon rupture
is a hard one for him, and we don't know
how long he's out till and until he gets surgery,
(23:42):
but probably rest of the year. You'd have to say,
I'm not quite sure, but big blow because I'm not
sure you would have started the tests, but I think
he would have been the bench option in twenty three
and that does create a reshuffle.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
But just a blow for the man himself.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah, blow for him, blow for the All Blacks. Unfortunately
for Caleb, his body has endured a number of issues.
I can't recall a season and recent times where he
hasn't had quite significant setbacks that have forced him to
miss the bulk of games, and had he had a
consistent run, it would have certainly furthered his case as
(24:21):
an incumbent on that on that left wing, and there's
not really I think fair Young and North was probably
the closest light for like replacement. But Clark is one
of the all blacks most damaging ball runners in terms
of meet has made breaking tackles. He's probably the best
era or exponent under the high ball, So it would
(24:43):
have been a huge asset to counter interfuse. That's high
ball barage that the box are going to send it them.
So and you're right, he would have been injected off
the bench I think for this first test. So that
opens up a spot. I think probably you're looking at
fair young enough for Lee Very Carter and Rieka Alwaoney
competing for that one position on the on the bench now.
(25:05):
But yeah, hugely disappointing for Caleb. He's a very affable guy,
likable guy, and yeah, I guess he'll start the rehead
process now I go da have surgery.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah, unfortunate for him. We still don't know about Damon
McKenzie whether he will be fit for this first test.
Your backs are hopeful, but he has gone from being
perhaps not much of a worry. That was the initial
thought after the Sharks game to actually, I'm not sure
he's going to be ready, so we'll see if he
can get back on the park. But it didn't sound positive,
did it.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
No, he's been a wee bit of mixed messages around
that as it was like, yeah, nothing to see here,
and then.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Maybe there is something to say.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
I saw some footage of him around training this week
earlier this week and he was still walking with a
significant limp. And we are Sunday here in South Africa
and the All Blacks traditionally well typically they name their
team internally on a Monday, so I don't think that
(26:04):
leaves enough time to recover. Dave Rennie said he was
less confident about McKenzie than Will Jordan and Cam Rouygard.
So I don't expect Amien to play this weekend. I
think in a four test series, if you throw him
out there against the box in particular, you risk losing
him for the series. So look, it's potentially a big
blow because McKenzie has been Renie's man at fullback. Josh
(26:29):
Morby and Bodenbarre are the only other ones to start
at full back in his six game tenure. And look,
McKenzie and Love we're developing quite a nice combination due playmakers.
McKenzie often comes in first receiver to alleviate that playmaking
responsibility on Love. So let's say he's ruled out, who
(26:52):
starts at fullback?
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Well, it's pretty good time for you to go through
the twenty threes. If he's ruled out, I think Boden
Barrett starts at fullback. Look, I'd have some reservations, but
I still think he's the best player for the job.
If Damien Kenzie is not fit. Will Jordan hasn't played
there under Dave Renny, Josh Morby has, but I think
(27:16):
Boden Barrett hasn't been the best to form. But I
think if you can give him a role to play
in a Test match like this at Alice Park, I
think he can do a job for you. So yeah,
I'd go Boden Barrett full back, you I think.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
So it doesn't fill me with a great deal of
confidence for their all blacks of belity to diffuse. That's
that bearraage of bombs that's coming their way. But he
has a vast experience one hundred and forty four tests
and he did look vastly better at fullback against the
Bulls than he did at first five and that underwhelming
performance against the Stormers. He had that nice little chip
(27:58):
kick from the backfield. I think it was Leader Ricardo
who regathered it. He gave the assist for Josh Morby
miss one cover tackle, which it's pretty hard when you're
streaking across field and it's quite easy to get stepped through.
One wild way would pass against the ball. So a
bit of a mixed bag, but it was certainly a
big step forward for Boden. He looked far more comfortable,
(28:20):
with much more time and space in the backfield. His
decision making was largely good, So Bill Blacks publicly have
professed their confidence in him. They've talked about how well
he's been training. And it does feel like the path
of least destruction because then you can still select Josh
Morby and Will Jordan provided he's fit. On the wings.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
There is a shortage of fullbacks though, isn't there. And look,
we've got a lot of tens that can play fullback,
but an out and out fullback per se, just don't
really have them many You give thinks someone like Callum
Hark and he's not on this tour. Even then he's
a ten Zarhn Sullivan potentially, but he's probably never quite
kicked on as you would have th watched Ammonia.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Naraua is the other one in the squad. Came on
and replaced McKenzie against the Sharks, and I really like Naraha.
I think he's good in the ear. He's got he's versatile,
he's got good skills, he's pretty calm and composed. He's
played a bit of fullback and wing, so he could
be a big mover. But I don't think there's any
chance that he starts at fallback. So it's pretty much
(29:22):
a choice I think between what Bowden will, Jordan and
maybe Josh Morby. But as you say, Morby's only played
two tests.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
I can't see them throwing him.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
To throw him and Alice Park the most hostile atmosphere
in the world, Ah, yeah, be a big risk.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
It would be your wingers. Then I'm going Morbige Jordan. Yeah,
assuming I think Jordan will be fit.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
I think so. Dave Renie has said the whole way
through to he is reasonably confident, So I think he starts,
and then you've got your midfield of Quintipire Jordi Barrett's
Ruben Love and Cam Ruger provided he's foot. What about
the composition of your loose.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Forwards, Well, I think the All Blacks will stick to
two provide Jacobson and Ardie Salville. I can't see them
differentiating from that. I mean, Angeon Signa had a huge
game at open side flankert, but Dave Rennie rolled out
Luke Jacobson at open side in the three games in July.
He's been a captain of this team over the last
(30:25):
few weeks. I think he's clearly Renny's guy in that
jersey at the moment. So I can't see them changing yourself.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Yeah, I think so. I think they like Supervise added
heights at the line out and has ability to roam
the edge. I think it does diminish the Oblix turnover
ability at the breakdown and the ability to spark the
counter attack, which has been a big driver from Rennie.
(30:53):
But maybe you can look at that later in the
game when you bring it on a Signa and Luckye
from the bench. So then you got probably Patty and
Picture Tupeloto and Josh Lord at Locke. We're thinking Fabian
doesn't start.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
I don't think Fabian makes it twenty three. This time
there's a chance potentially they go to a Lord two
and Darry Josh Lord's been playing well.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
I can't see that. I think Darry's probably firm fourth
choice lot maybe in fifth behind if you're considering to
I just.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Like the way that Darry has been carrying the ball
on this tour. And I think again to South African's
bending the liners is really vital and having a prop
that is willing just to walk and run into those
big bodies and sorry Locke rather right, and then also
can Gathers don't But I just like the way that
he's kicked on over the last few months. And you know,
(31:45):
I think you're right. I think it's Lord and toep
a Load two. But I just wonder whether they may
look at Sam Dearry potentially front row.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Ethan the group, Cody Taylor, and I'd probably I know
he hasn't hasn't had a lot of rugby, but I
think I'm a big tyro Lo Max fan. I think
he's a great scrummager, probably a little bit more dynamic
around the field, but it's a toss up between him
and yours.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah it is, Yeah, And I would look I'd probably
go New just on the basis that Lomax hasn't had
much rug be and I think you better to bring
him off the bench in the second spell. But wouldn't
have any quibbles if Anny backs and to come on
and start. So we're buying large, we're same fifteen.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Yeah, I think most people would predict that it's just fullbacks.
The real flashpoint, isn't it?
Speaker 4 (32:28):
It is, And.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
It is a real flashpoint because I think you scrum
your mall defense and your high ball ability are going
to be put in the furnace against the box. So
Bill Blacks know that they know it's coming. But diffusing
it's another thing.
Speaker 4 (32:47):
Isn't there is? Indeed the bench? Are you going a
five to three or six two or seven to one?
What are you thinking five to three two?
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Other injury concerns eving new Mayor was brought off just
after halftime or at halftime, whether we are keilles issue
and courtes a knock on the knee, so that could
affect the makeup. If it doesn't, I would have new
Mayor and one of those tight heads, and then I
(33:14):
think is your clear second choice? Yep, then you've got
your too loose forwards. I would have Preceton Kyle Preston
no matter what I think. If Ratmus fits, I think
Rennie will probably favor.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Him well, especially on the high velt. I would go
Preston as well. I think that he's a much better
kicker from the base of the ruck than Ratima and
on the high velt where you can get a lot
more distance. I think that's valuable. He can get you
out of trouble use that to his advantage. So I
would also go Preston. They do seem to have settled
(33:49):
on Ratima as the backup to Cam roy Guard, and
the fact that roy Guard's coming back from injury probably
situs that maybe wouldn't go close to eighty minutes. I mean,
he went pretty deep in some of those test matches
in July. Clearly, I think there's a feeling that there's
roy Garden and Daylight in this camp. But they didn't
get to test out a six or two bench with
the Leroy Carter and the the Test match and the
(34:10):
club matches. So yeah, I'm with you, I'd start Preston.
I'm not sure they would. They will, but if I
was s letting other.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Preston, he's also performed that role all year. Yeah, the
Crusaders that that's a emo, and I think he he
brings a real attacking edge, So here I would have Pristain.
Then you've got I think Antlina Brown's locked as your
second center cover. And then as you mentioned, it was
(34:39):
contestable for the outside, which your blacks I think will
want to carry. I would go for young Enough for
I think if you bring him on against tiring defenders,
he always beats the first man. I know he's in
experience and it's a big occasion, but he's been in
there for a while now, so he would be the
guy that I would go for.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yeah, I think Riko Yuanni is worthy of further consideration.
I thought he was very good against the bulls as
we moved your in the back line a little bit
initially against his will, but now he's on board with it,
and as we touched on earlier, is lighter. It just
feels more nimble, feels like he's mentally in the right
(35:21):
head space for the series. So I would probably look
at him potentially. And if you're taking Yuannie on the bench,
I'm not sure you take Leonnet Brown as well. You
Annie can cover midfield. He can cover outside backs, so
maybe you look at for he as well potentially on
the bench in that scenariogo and until Lenet Brown doesn't
(35:44):
get there. I get why they take him on there
for that specialist midfield role, but I'm not sure he's We.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Don't really need it because someone who covers sick and
and sin. Because you've got Quinti.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
Pie, yeah, you can slide.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Yeah, So if Jordie was injured, Quinn can go to thirteen.
Or if Quinn's injured, then you've got sense to cover.
So that's trump card of Lenna Brown's of covering sicken
and censor.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
It is mitigated by ye. And I'm not overly convinced
about him as a bench option either. I think he's
a much bitter starter than he is a bench option
len At Brown. I almost think like sometimes he does
tries it a little too much when he comes off
the bench, overplays his hand a little bit. We've seen
him get a few yellow cards when he's come off
come on late in games as well, So I'm just
(36:26):
not sure that bench role necessarily is one that suits him.
Been impressed by what he's done on this too. I
think he's been really really good. But if I was speaking,
I go Yuanni and Fear. We've talked about offline about
sex two bench, but I don't think they're gonna do
that for this test, are they.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
No.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
I see that Leroy Carter played really well last night.
Look he turned over the ball a few times. Option Yeah,
but I don't know that this room for him this
twenty three, not yet.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
But look, there's going to be casualties throughout this series.
It's going to be as well.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
I don't think you can You can't play the same
twenty three four weeks in a row against South Africa. No,
you couldn't do it in a World Cup, played the
same squad four weeks in a row. Would in the
four You certainly can't do it against the old foe.
So there's going to have to be some tweaking along
the way. And I'm sure the All Blacks have considered
this and they're planning. Is that Test one might look
(37:21):
like this at Alice Park, But will I tell me
we get to back to F and B Stadium in
Sueto and Tests three in Baltimore, it's probably gonna look
a lot different in terms of the makeup of some
of those twenty threes.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
Yeah, and the context of the series will have a
big impact on that if you go to Baltimore and
you're out of the series and it allows a bit
more rotation. The only other point to note is if
Barrett doesn't start at fullback, he almost has to be
on the bench because otherwise without McKenzie you don't have
first five cover.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
Yeah, that's a good point. I didn't thought of that.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
So I think that's another consideration for why or he
will be in the twenty three.
Speaker 4 (38:04):
I'd almost rather Jacob come off the bench than Barrett. No,
I don't agree with that.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
I thought Jacob had some moments, but I don't think
he's ready for an alis Park occasion.
Speaker 4 (38:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
But a feedback he thoughted this odd to me from
Andrew good A. Liam just listening to the lad As
Rugby direct to you, and Elliott explained that whilst you
guys understood the intricacies of the Mornger situation, usked me
immortals didn't have a clue. I thought that was a
bit patronizing of you, fellers. Whilst you may think players
should be picked from anywhere and seem to think the
whole public think the same way, that is not necessarily
(38:42):
the case. I for one agreement, I for one agree
with Steve Lancaster. I think whilst it would be advantageous
in the short term, it would be detrimental to our
local game and therefore all Black Pathway in the long term.
Enjoy the podcast, though a bit long between drinks sometimes
cheers Andy, Apologies if it came across that way, Andy,
It didn't mean to be condescending. No, it was more
(39:02):
that I think if you are a casual fan, it's
hard to explain to someone, you know, why Richie Wonger
isn't available for this series, and it gets very long
winded as well, you know, only signed eighteen months rather
than two, you know, trying to explain that. I just
don't think it passes the pub test. So that was
more what I and you were trying to put forward.
So apologies if I came across like that.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Yeah, No, thanks for listening and welcome all feedback. I
think that gist of it is the eligibility sagas and
the sabbaticals and the companies and goings. It just needs
simplification that that's that. That's the general theme. What about
the spring box broadly speaking, what do we expect from them?
(39:44):
Are they going to play any more rugby? With Tony
Brown and their mix? Who do you expect to start
at first five? SASA has just come back and played
one game against the Pumas, wasn't overly impressive. Do they
go Andre Pollard? Did they go Money Labock? How are
they going to approach this?
Speaker 2 (40:02):
I've got no idea, Like I've literally got no idea
where Russy will go with And I think that's you know,
it's one of the beauties of rugby and the way
that the Springboks have been able to build so much
depth is that they have options and whoever Russia Erasmus
Pecks will have, you know, every chance of going out
there and performing extremely well. And I don't mean that,
(40:25):
and I haven't done my rig sich way. I just
don't have a steer as to which way it's going
to go. If I had to put money on it, well,
I'd probably think Paulard plays at Alice Park and then
the local boy Sasha plays Stormer's favorite it plays it
at Cape Town the following week.
Speaker 4 (40:39):
But I don't have a steer. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
I mean, whatever team he puts out is going to
be incredibly strong. So they've got great players across the park.
And you know Russia, Erasmus could well pick one team
for Joe Burke and change it out entirely for the
following week. That's where the Springboks team is. With the
depth that he's built.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Yeah, I think they have phenomenal depth, don't they? And
I think Russy will rotate the result dependent to a degree,
but he will use that depth. I suspect they might
go many laboc I think he started last time out
against the All Blacks and that demolition job, and Wellington
(41:20):
not too sure about the wider squad. It sounds like
Scalisi could be missing for at least the first one
maybe two tests, so they might be without the talismanic captain.
But again they've got great depth and the loose forwards.
This is just moving from those tour matches to these
massive challenges. Yeah, the All Blacks haven't won in South
Africa in four years. I think they've won what one
(41:42):
in their past five against the box maybe six Off
the top of my head, World Champions, spiritual Home. Everything
stacked against the All Blacks there, well it is, but yeah,
I mean the Dave and he's only been in charge
for six games, so it has a series come too
soon for them?
Speaker 2 (42:04):
It may have done, but I think we've seen some
shifts from the All Black that leave me in a
more confident space approaching this Test series than I was
at the end of last year.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
Absolutely so absolute trainery.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Yeah yeah, So look, whatever way you spin, it is
going to be daunting. You know, the All Blacks have
only won one Test series in South Africa nine that's
how hard this is. It's only ever been achieved once.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
So well it hasn't been that many opportunity, No, there hasn't,
but that is.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
And and it hasn't happened for thirty years. But that
is what they're dealing with here, the All Blacks. They're
dealing you know, and going against history, and that's against
spring box sides that have been very, very good and
this one's a great spring box side. So huge mountain
to climb for the All Blacks. But I think there
are some systems in place that they can stress the
(43:03):
Springboks in certain areas. I know, the lot's been made
around the All Blacks wanting to play quick and that's
been pushed back a little bit by the South African
fans as ever, But you know, this is what test
rugby is all about, as a combatants playing different styles
and pushing each other on the rugby field. So broadly speaking,
it's a huge challenge for the All Blacks, but I
(43:26):
think they're ready to walk towards it with it that
comes out with a win. I don't know, but I
think they have to go on with some quote unquote optimism.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
Does that word again, Yeah, for sure. Look, I think
it will be a quintessential clash of styles. I think
the Box will go to their DNA, their scrum. They're
all the high ball, their brutality, and the All Blacks
will try and play that up tempo game and it's
going to be intriguing to see whether they can get
(43:55):
that platform, whether they can generate that quick rockball. In particular,
because the Box will come for them there in a
big way. It's not just their loose forwards, it's their locks.
It's Malcolm Marx, one of the best turnover exponents in
the world, and it's a huge occasion for a number
(44:16):
of players. Twenty one of this forty four man squad
haven't played the spring Box in South Africa before and
Rennie hasn't had a lot of time with this group.
I agree that they have made some massive shifts. I
think they have the ability to stretch and stress the
spring box. I do worry a wee bit about some
(44:37):
of their high risk, high reward play, you know, jeez,
I think about you know, they were running the ball
from ten meters up from their own line against the
balls and it didn't noise come off. And if that
doesn't come off against the box, it's pandemomi.
Speaker 4 (44:53):
Yeah it is.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
And that's the one warrior I take out of it
is that they weren't forced into situations where they needed
to keep the school board taking over and putting having
to respond to pressure against the you know, the provincial teams.
They didn't have a shot at appenal goal in the
three matches. They get shot at points. They're going to
have to take them against South Africa, so they're going
(45:14):
to have to play a little bit differently. You know,
optism is good to a point, but you also going
to have to keep the scoreboard taking over and put
some pressure on. So that would be a concern. Heating
in well, and let's be positive. You know, the all
Blacks do have a great recent record at Alice Park.
I think altitude in many ways suits the style that
they want to play, to bring fatigue into the game,
to run the spring box off their feet. Whether they
(45:35):
can do that or not another thing entirely. But they
are in a much better place than they were at
the back end of last year. Just for the record,
the tab the odds South Africa at dollar forty two
and abes to eighty, so that sort of.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Tells you where favoritism sits and how likely the odds
makers view an All Blacks victory. But can't wait. There
is no better venue in the world than Alice Park
and that will be absolutely heaving for this game.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
Yeap, can't wait. We'll be back with another check in
but later in the week. Ones the All Blacks have
named their team for the game on Sunday morning. Thanks
to Mark Kelly for producing. We are powered by PORKLIFB Solutions,
lifting you and your business to a highly
Speaker 1 (46:30):
For more from News Talk st B, listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
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