August 20, 2026 • 34 mins
On the latest episode of Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier break down the team lists ahead of the opening test of Rugby's Greatest Rivalry.
Who were the biggest selection surprises? Which side holds the early advantage? The boys leave no stone unturned as they analyse the key matchups and storylines heading into a blockbuster clash in Johannesburg.
Plus, All Blacks first five Ruben Love joins the podcast after being handed the No. 10 jersey for the series opener. He discusses the opportunity of a lifetime, the challenge of taking on the defending world champions in their own backyard, and what the All Blacks are expecting when they run out on Sunday morning.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks B Follow
this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It's been a highly anticipated build up, Elliott. Hasn't it
a good tour? Three interesting enough tour games underwhelming in
some respects, But I think it's been hugely beneficial for
the All Blacks to be here for that length of time,
to have had a game at altitude, to have that
big squad together. Dave and He's talked a lot about
(00:37):
having a captive audience and all those sorts of things.
But it's all shadow boxing, as you say. We have
the two teams of the trophy, we've heard from Fitsie
and every Man and their Dog, and now we're ready
to rock up to Alis Park and witness what I
hope will be a great occasion that is determined by
the players.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Yes, let's hope that is indeed the case. Let's get
into the two teams first and foremost, the All Blacks named,
and no real surprises. Per SAG, You'd say Fabian Holland
is a bit of a surprise in the second row
because it felt like they were maybe aiming to get
him going in Cape Town from a test perspective, and
Patrick dow belot too. Maybe Sam Dowry might have been
(01:19):
the option here alongside Josh Lord, who I think was
always locked in probably the start. I mean, what a
nine to twelve months Josh Lord said. But Fabin and
Holland getting the nod, was it the big surprise for
you out of the run on sign?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yeah? I think so. Like you, I thought far been
just because of the fact he missed the entire Super
Rugby and the July Test coming back from that shoulder surgery,
that he might have needed a wee bit more game time. Lock.
He was exceptional. He has insatiable work great. He is
a real line out asset in terms of stealing ball,
(01:52):
which I think as an area of the all Black
swall target the box. So my expectation was they would
go of Josh Lord and Patrick two blow too, particularly
after the performance from two plow two. He was pretty
close to man of the match, wasn't he against Ireland
at Eden Park? And I do think they will potentially
miss him both from a scrummaging power perspective and ball carring.
(02:13):
I do have some stats I have prepared for you
that I'll throw you at some point to bring this in,
but I don't think you can deny Fabian Holland as
thoroughly deserving of his place there. And as you say,
Josh Lord's been a massive mover for Bill Blacks in
at the back end of Razes tenure and coming into
(02:34):
this year. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Absolutely. Looking at the rest of the team, you know
pretty much has gone to the way that we thought.
Josh Moreby on the left wing has been a big
mover so far this year since our debuting against Italy
in Wellington last month, felt like he had the inside
(02:55):
track even with Caleb Clark, or before Caleb Clark got injured,
to start on the left wing for this game. And
then the question marks are around the fitness of three
players really, Roy guard Jordan McKenzie. All have been cleared
to play this week soon A movee that McKenzie was
probably the most serious out of the three, even though
he had been out the shortest amount of time. But
(03:16):
he's been cleared to go. We saw him at training
on Tuesday. We get a huge amount of time to
look at these things. Didn't goalkick, but seemed to be
moving relatively freely for at least when I was looking
at him. Apart from when we were recording a video
almost got sconned a few times by some missiles coming through.
(03:37):
But you know, is it a risk do you think
getting these players in it's a four match series. I
guess the importance of winning the first one is power amount.
But you know, I'm sure they wouldn't be playing if
they're not fully fit, but would have been better to
give him, you know, another week's rest per se.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
We heard from Cam Roygard and Will Jordan today, didn't
we end They both extremely confident that they're good to go.
You know, both those guys weren't probably going to play much,
particularly roy Guard even going to play thirty minutes. So look,
you can only take them at their word, but players
are desperate to play and they're always going to tell
(04:15):
you they're good to go. And I think it is
a rusk with McKenzie because clearly he looked, it looked
awkward and he was brought off in the Shark's game
and the back into the first half. I think it
was Rennie was edamant it was fine, and then he
said he was sweating on him and then now he's
(04:36):
good to go, and I can just imagine McKenzie just
pushing it and saying he's good, he's good, and so
I think there is a risk around him that he's
gonna cop so much high ball if he comes down
on it awkwardly, if he gets tackled awkwardly, I think
it could flare up again. So I think there is
an element of rust with McKenzie.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Who would move into fullback if he was injured? Do
you think because Leroy Carter's on the bench, would they
move Jordan? You'd move Jordan into full back and Carter
comes on the wing. He wouldn't move Arett into fullback
and put Anteline and Brown on at that point.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
No, I don't think so. I think Jordi Barrett's importance
for Reuben and Love cannot be understated in his ability
to be to help him with his eyes and ears,
to help run the attack, his big kicking game as well.
He can do some of those things from full back,
but not to the same extent. So I'd be loath
(05:32):
to shake that up too early. And it's our understanding
as well that had Damian McKenzie been ruled out, Will
Jordan would have started at fullback and not Boden Barretts
so I think that's probably where they would have gone.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Interesting, that would be probably the most likely and probably
the most singless option in terms of not moving too
many parts of the back line around just on the bench,
you know, Leroy cardigting the nod over her or Rico
youani a little bit of a surprise for me. I
just wonder whether that seven skill set of Leroy Carter's,
(06:11):
and for he was a sevens player as well, and
Rico in the distant past too, but with a LeRoy's
ability just at altitude to try and run around the
spring box a little bit might be more their thinking.
You know, you don't get the power that you would
with a thinny young and all for but Leroy Carter
potentially just try and stretch somebody's tiring springbox defenders.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Potentially, Yeah, I would have liked to have seen for
him been included. I think he's much more of a
point of difference in terms of his power, his ability
to beat a man one on one. I think he's
a really strong defender. Maybe they've still got some concerns
about him under the high ball, and I think le
Roy Carter certainly has a higher work rate, which Dave
(06:54):
Rennie likes, so I would have probably gone for he
and I was also surprised that they went George Bauer
over Xavier new Mayor, and Rennie was asked about that
at Press Current today and indicated that he was fit
and that he went with George Bauer was purely a
selection decision. So for me, that's probably the conservative option.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Look, he kind of huges his bets a little bit
Rini because he said, you know, it was a it
was a decision based on form or based on experience
of George Bauer, but also to me had an Achlly's
issue that saw him come off against half at half
time against the Balls. So perhaps there's a little bit
of you know, a little from Colin a a little
from colmb sort of scenario there. Because I'm sure seeing
(07:36):
Amiya come in again potentially for the second Eastern Cape,
it surprised me to see him not play a role
in this Test series.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, we haven't seen a lot of them for the
All Blacks, but I think when what we have seen
has been very good. So he came off the bench
against Islands and he started against the Bulls, albeit against
a weekend Bulls team, but that was with tyro A
Lomax and Cody Taylor, and that was zell Blacks by
far the best scrummaging performance on this tour. So that
(08:04):
was a relative box ticked. So yeah, I'd like to
see more of Xavier Numia.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Do you want to help me with those stats?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Would that be all right?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
It is timely? Yeah, why not? So? I think these stats, Elliott,
they're just going to paint a bit of a picture
for you here, okay, for the team's relative strengths. So
since the twenty twenty three will cut South Africa boasts
the four top props with the highest percentage of scrump penalties,
now that's not necessarily a shock, but three of them
(08:37):
will call low Steam Camp and young Hendrik Vessels will
pack down against the All Blacks, and the other is
obviously ox Niche, who's widely regarded as the world's best scrimmager.
So that's clearly where they're going to come for the
All Blacks, and that the stats bear that outs that
(08:59):
they scrump for penalties, they get penalties, so they'll blocks
be aware of that. But I just think without Patrick
two Polo too, I do worry a little bit about
the scrum strength. So that's one another telling point to
where the Box generate the momentum. France and South Africa
were the only teams and the three July Internationals to
average four or more meters per carries. Your Blacks ranked
eighth and the same window, so clearly the Box are
(09:23):
generating a lot more go forward. And I do have
concerns when I look at the composition of the All
Blacks forward pack about their ability to bend and break
the line.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Yeah, I do it as well. I think Holland is
getting there, and we saw him roaming around on the
weekend at loftus verse Feld. But I think especially with
you know YouTube advised moved into a blindside and he
adds a plenty of line out time he's I think
(09:53):
you lose a bit by having not having an explosive six.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
He's not a natural six, natural six, and even though
I spoke to him this sweet it's that there's a
big adjustment. It wasn't on as Bingo card to play
there this year, So yeah, you get more height in
the LINEU, but I think you do compromise that when
you compare them to a Peter Luckeye both from ball
carrying and a speed and agility on the edge and
(10:16):
just on that the two of those locks are gonna
have to play eighty minutes.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Yeah, yeah, there was no come on there at altitude. Yeah,
it is a risk, and that's why I probably would
have leant towards a six to two bench in all honesty,
I think especially this game at altitude, you probably could
have afforded to maybe trust your back Maybe with Cam
Royguard being injured and Will Jordan and Damien McKenzie, they
(10:43):
didn't feel like they could go with a six to
two bench just because those players are coming off injuries,
so potentially that would have been one of the reasons.
But I would have liked having a lot cover in
a game like this, And maybe you go with a
you Preston and a Carter or Preston and a fine
Young and off is your your backline cover potentially, so
(11:05):
perhaps that's come into it, but I would have I
would have liked some lock covered when we sent had
good Toto has been coming off the bench for the
All Blacks over the last three four years, thirty minutes
off the bench, he's been really really dynamics, a real weapon. Yeah,
so I personally would have gone with a six to
two bench and had in there or maybe Darry's been
carrying exception. He's probably been the All Blacks best locked
(11:26):
so far this year in terms of the test matches.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah, I don't Darry has been great. I don't think
he has the same physicality as some of the other
All Blacks locks and will come to the box team,
I'm sure. But they have got a five to three
six to two bench with on Andre Estahesen fulfilling that
lestifying Anoku hybrid role. So that's a real trunk card
for them and just one last step for you. In
(11:49):
terms of the contrasts, So the All Black strength third
behind France and Ireland for average attacking ruck speed in
July with two point nine to five seconds. The Springboks
were by far the slowest with four point two six seconds.
So for all the talk about this slow pace game
this week and who's telling Porky's and whatnot, that, I
(12:12):
think that does speak to the All Black's desire to
play at pace and the spring Boks probably kicking a
lot more from the base and taking their time.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Yeah, I think you're exactly right there. And look, this
has been one of the backdrops to the week. Hasn't
it the sniping? I guess you'd call it between the
two sides. We saw Russy Erasmus well out Yuka Piper
on Monday local time, Yucko Pipeer the former test referee
of course, and our national laws advisor to South African
(12:42):
rugby talking about how they've been perfectly within the limits
of setting lineouts and various things. And then they doubled
down on a Tuesday with Felix Jones coming out and
pointing out a few things that the Shark Stormers Bulls
coached offered up to them about what the All Blacks
were doing illegally in those games, and Dave Renny coming
out today and going, well, actually, no will penalise once,
(13:05):
didn't do it again in terms of polling players down
in the all or thrown players across the line that
it's been once and done. So, you know, this goes
back to the top around the shadow boxing is that
this is all part of the theater of rugby and
with the way the rules are now that both coaches
have to agree to meet before they can do so,
(13:26):
it kind of creates a scenario where they're going to
do this in the media because there's no either way
for it to get, you know, into the path of
the referee. Really, they've got to be reading it online
or you know, in the newspaper over their morning coffee,
whether it's Matthew Carve or whoever it might be, because
(13:46):
they can't meet because neither coach decided to or Russie didn't,
so it meant Reddy couldn't either.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yeah, I really don't like the public exerting of pressure
on the official zen. Look, Rennie, you could argue he
might have started it by talking about the South African franchises,
not the spring Box slowing the pacey reference that the
Sharks taking fifty seconds to form an out and look,
if we're being honest, we have seen the spring walk
(14:12):
slow the pace, whether it be feigning injuries or using
the a lot of time to go to the set piece.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
And there are a couple ofications els did it lost
this vest help and.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
They're allowed to use that a lot of time? It's
it's it's the other stuff. But I don't like the winging.
I think it detracts from the spectacle call I don't
think we needed in the game. So I think it's
been left a wee bit of a sour taste because
the Springboks are being very avert about that this week.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Yeah, it was interesting. We went to both into Russia
Rasmus this Thursday team naming conference you only get in
the day, and didn't really go there. Again, decided I
wasn't really asked a question about it to decide, I
didn't really bring it into the topic of conversation today.
So maybe he's happy to let sleeping dogs lie and
just get on with the game on Saturday, which I
(15:01):
think would be good for everyone.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
It would just before we leave. The officials will have
to be squeaky clean. I looked and Matthew Carley, the Englishman,
he dished out three yellow cards. So last time Neil
Blacks in South Africa, I think you're at that game
in keep Town. And three more when the All Blacks
said that humbling loss to the box at Twickenham. Scott
Barrett cop two of those prior to the twenty twenty
(15:23):
three World Cups. So not shy of flashing the card
as Carly.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
No, he's not, and the All Blacks have not beat
in South Africa with him in charge. They've got an
zero and three record with him with the whistle they have.
I think I think it's a five and three record
overall with Carli, but all those wins not coming against
South Africa. South Africa with a seven win two loss record.
I don't know how much you reading so previous referee
(15:48):
history and with that matters, but world right, we put
it out of the match notes, so clearly something that
we can talk about.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
You. Yeah, I think you can read more into trends
and styles are referring and Carlie is certainly a stickler.
He will come hard and earlier about some things. And yeah,
he won't be afraid to send players to the naughty
chef if he wants the stampers authority early.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
No, exactly. Look and look, I've had some comments about
the referees previously on the podcast, but again they're not
only doing what Wild Rugby's ask them too. And so
let's hope that Carli, I, Mischa, Kelly Gardner and Dixon,
you know, just referee to the spirit of the series.
(16:34):
And we're not talking about a decision they mate. We're
talking about a moment of brilliance that the All Blacks
do or South Africa do. Let's hope we're talking about
the rugby. Ultimately on the park.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
YEP, that's what everyone wants. Look, it's gonna be a
Alice Park is one of the great arenas in world rugby.
It's hard to beat and you just want the rugby
to do the talking.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
To you do.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Indeed, speaking of someone's going to do talking, you spoke
to Ruben Love during the week. We'll close out the
podcast the few thoughts from Ruben Love. But let's talk
about the spring Box and their team. No s Calisi.
At one point we thought he was out for the series.
The russy Erasmus said on Monday that I might be
all right for this week. Well, ultimately he's not. They
don't lose a lot because Paul de Ville is in
(17:17):
the six years he had an exceptional July window.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
He's the next big thing, isn't he? Twenty three year
old Tyro.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
And Peter steff Detoy captaining them Oxnetzsche, it is good
to go from that injury. You know, Malcolm Mark starts.
You know a lot of questions around what they do
at ten, but Sasha Feinberg and Goneozulu to start at
tea and they've got Marley Liboc waiting in the wings.
Remember Hondre Pollard this week. I haven't seen the last
of Hondre, I'm sure in this series. So they've got
(17:43):
plenty of options, but relatively predictable sort of team by
and large from the spring Box. And you look at
the back line. And he didn't have a lot to
say at the media conference today, but Damian Vellen's so
I can still remember how we just carved up the
All Blacks last time Ada in Wellington.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
He's a weapon.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
He was absolute weapon and he was absolutely bouncing on
him speaking to Jason Pine on sideline with us and
he was sort of rocking after a stunning performance. And
if he gets going, the All Blacks are in a
bit of strife. So look, a really good spring Box
team was never not going to be a good Springboks
team whoever they picked. But yeah, you can look at that,
and you mentioned the props and things like that before
(18:21):
the size of the challenge. You know, now, wait's the
All Blacks, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Oh yeah, when he rolls out that team, you're like,
oh shit, you're not missing about here. No, it's gonna
be bloody tough. Damien Delende playing his hundredth Just the
names in that pack. Evan needs to be Yeah, Malcolm
Marx will player of the Year last year. Just there
multiple threats at the breakdown in particular. You know the
(18:46):
All Backs want to play at pace. I think they
are gonna find it a real challenge. They need to
get their cleaners in and numbers. I think Roygard's a
real asset there, his size, his ability to shake off
defenders and deal with rut pressure. This is his first
start against the spring Box. I'm really intrigued to see
how he goes a wee bit surprised that Sasha to
(19:07):
get the nods. Obviously they've got great depth there, but
he's only had one game in two months since coming
back from the ankle injury and it was really scratchy,
albeit in a makeshift spring Box team. They left half
their squads in South Africa for that game in Argentina.
But he is the golden boy and together with Grant Williams.
Does that perhaps suggest that they might play a wee
(19:30):
bit more rugby than most people expect.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Yeah, potentially, and it'll be interesting at Alice Park because
I thought that they'd probably go Sasha in Cape Town
and maybe start Leboc or Pollard here potentially a little
bit more expansive. You know, Russ, He's talked a lot
about the All Blacks and what they're going to do
and the way they want to play at pace. But
it wouldn't surprise me and the Springbox will scrum for penalties,
(19:53):
but it wouldn't surprise me to see them try and
take on the All Blacks alien and whether they can
last Friday minutes and pace that way. But it wouldn't
surprise me just to try and maybe see them try
and make a statement inside that opening twenty minutes and
play with a lot of heat against the All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yes, it is a different style of ten, but he
actually often or has the ability to play twelve. He's
quite big and physical, so he can challenge the line,
take contact, offload so that attracts defenders. He's very silky
and other regards as well, but hasn't had a lot
of rugby lately. But I'm sure both Tony Brown behind
(20:31):
the scenes will be cooking up a few specials, a
few specials, and i think particularly from the line outs,
Neil Barnes and Jason Ryan will be trying to devise
something similar. So it'd be interesting to see if they
get the platform to launch those.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Yeah, line still sticks me. Stick with me that Scott
Robertson said back when he was Crusader's coach and Tony
Brown was at the Highlanders at that point, and Scott
Robertson said that Tony Brown's got more specials than Brisco's,
so great, we will see what he's got up his sleeves.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Just on Russy, you mentioned we went to his prescurrence today.
What did you make? Was it mind games? He's adamant
that the third game is going to be the defining
one to the point that he was talking about and
also just this level of detail of knowledge about the
average minutes of the All Blacks and comparing them to
the spring Box. The fact that the All Blacks have
(21:26):
nine new players in the squad that they didn't that
the spring Box didn't play last year. He nominated them
all in the starting team, three in the starting team
and six on the bench, and so his analysis is
a very very detail. But Russy adamant that the third
game in this series is going to be the defining one,
to the point that managing minutes is very important keeping
(21:47):
players fresh, which will be easier for the box given
their depth, Is that taking pressure off this first test?
Or what did you make of I guess just that
sort of statement.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
I think it was a bit of a surprise in
a way because I hadn't considered that sort of thought.
But he's right. The third is going to be utimately
defining whether some teams up to nil after two weeks
and they can go and win it in Sueto in
week three. I get the sentence that he thinks this
is gonna be a tight series and that if you
(22:19):
win in Sueto it's two to one, you probably go
to Baltimore with a bit of momentum. It's a long flights,
or to Washington, DC, wherever both the teams are going
to land. He probably go with a bit of momentum,
whereas the team to one down it probably isn't gonna
go with as much momentum. Could be a long flight,
all that sort of things. So I think he's probably right.
(22:41):
And he sort of suggested that with Segur is that
you know, if he's playing game three, then they're probably
in good neck. And he compared it to the World
Cup run, you know, a quarter final, semi finals finals.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
So we mentioned the fact they lost the first game
in the British Irish Lions series, came back and won that.
They were the first team in history to drop a
World Cup Pool game and still respond and regroup and
win that twice.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Yeah, you know, they're all about rising for the big
occasion of the spring Box and they certainly know how
to do it. So you know if Russy, if Russy
says it, then it must be true. So well and
see how it all unfolds. But the stage is a
certainly set forward. You know, this game to get under Wagh.
As I mentioned, you spoke with Ruben Love on this
(23:23):
tour and got some thoughts around him. Fascinated to see
how he goes. Biggest test of his career.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Isn't it absolutely facing the Box in South Africa for
the first time in his fourth test, seizing the reins
and yeah, massive occasion for him and many others. I
think he's played a wee bit within himself at times
and it's going to be interesting to see how that
(23:48):
stage affects him and everything from the spring Box line speed.
You know, facing these things for the first time, You've
got Delende and Creole and all the big Box forward
pack charging it. He doesn't like bravery, but there's gonna
be a lot to deal with. I think he is
very inherently confident, so I don't expect them to be overawed.
(24:10):
But I hope you've got the the confidence to throw
that long ball if it's on and and not going
to a shell a little bit, that'll be a fascinating scenario.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Let's here about to your chat with Rubin love for
now here on Rugby the Ricks.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
Yes, I can reflect on the year, Rubin, How's how's
has it been? Probably must take a lot of confidence
for everything that's even.
Speaker 6 (24:34):
Yeah, it's definitely felt like a long, longer season than
I've been spinning, for sure, because you go NonStop since
since Jenny or even from the end of at all
last year. It's just going to be a non stop
working towards one goal for the Super Ugly Final and
getting there, and then you know three days later you're
on all backs camp. So yeah, it heavens real quick.
And yeah, I guess there's a lot on a lot
(24:57):
of All Becks games, so it's like the biggest calendar year.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
So I didn't want to try you too far here.
Speaker 6 (25:02):
I think we focused on frost here and the Navy's
camp was just like game by game because there's so
many games, especially this tour moment in Africa, there's there's
eight games in something like six weeks.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Just being able to take a game by game and
just making sure it's pure enjoyment not becoming like a job.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
You've had to be patient, right, you know, and years
gone by, and the seen you mentioned coming out here
in twenty four and not playing, and then that last
year was I think you might have played a couple
of games.
Speaker 5 (25:29):
But how much are you relishing.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Being backed you know, been throwing the keys and and
and you know, running.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
The gator for hill Blacks.
Speaker 6 (25:40):
Yeah, it's pretty special because, like you said, the two
year period that I was there and didn't really play much,
I was, I was training a lot of the time,
and certainly allowed me to look at myself a little
bit more like on the field and off the field,
like why why I wasn't playing And purely for the
(26:01):
fact the last two years I probably wasn't good enough.
And you have to you have to take that personally
and reflect on your game.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
And I think that was a.
Speaker 6 (26:09):
Big personal note for me over the last off season
that I had after the NBA to all last year,
it was just it's my second year, Like I haven't played.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
I haven't.
Speaker 6 (26:21):
Like cemented the position or anything like that. So it's
just like I just want to put everything into this offseason,
train hard, go back home and see the people that
I love them and be around them and find that inspiration.
And I feel like I did dead and especially that
December on remember decend, December January period, it was just
like br didn't see any of my teammates. It was
just people that I grew up with back home, a Parmey, Foxton, Yea, and.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
How my parents basically lived there.
Speaker 6 (26:49):
So I just spent all my time there and just
had a common goal at the end of the off
season to want to be the tenth of a Hurricans
and the tenth for the all works. And it took
a lot of hard work out, more like off the
fielder than anything to have the self belief and I
feel like I can thought, so yeah, it's worked out okay,
but it's still so a long way to go and
haven't done anything yet.
Speaker 5 (27:10):
I've spent all their fox and friends. You know, you
throughout your career prior to this year, you moved between.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Ten and fifteen a lot, right, how much is committing
to ten and then having that time and they set
off for the games.
Speaker 5 (27:29):
Propelled you into this position.
Speaker 6 (27:32):
Yeah, I just think back to but I started the
Hurricanes Jason Holland believed the me when I was nineteen
and then got injured for the best part of two
Super seasons with microin and in their interim like Britt
Cameron was unreal and I came back and paid fullback
for a while. But in my head, I still believe
that I was a ten and like for Chase or
(27:55):
Alf to see me as a ten, and I think
it was like twenty to twenty one and I didn't
even believe in myself meant so much to me then
and Clark having that conversation with me the middle of
last year about where I want to play and like
went back in ten. Had like them having the trust
in me, and because the times bro like if anyone
says they're one hundred percent of confidence in themselves every
(28:17):
single nay.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Like they're life.
Speaker 6 (28:18):
So there were definitely times of doubt. Bad games, bad
trainings came on like a roller coaster. So but them
waver and support when I'll be going to sleep and
night was like far right man, like, I gotta believe
in myself because they do as well. And so yeah,
there's those two guys support honestly meant the world to me.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
Even when I was an All Backs environment.
Speaker 6 (28:38):
Those two were text me health or Jason Holland and
Clark just be like, just keep pushing, keep getting rids.
At ten, I definite would have been playing ten for
the All Backs now if it wasn't for them, Like
I genuinely believed that. So yeah, those those two allowed
me to bet myself at.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Ten would have been the big shift shift head to
make a new game because that's similar positions are a
ten and fifteen, but ten is so much more on
your shoulders.
Speaker 5 (28:59):
From a game driving perspective, what have you learned throughout
the year? What changes have you made in your game?
Speaker 6 (29:06):
Obviously there's a lot of tech components of it. Being
able to read the game field, the momentum swings make
plays more so in the middle of the field rather
than the fullback who's probably a little bit wider and
going like away from the technic kealies of the game.
That's more like being like a leader, like being able
(29:26):
to have to look at myself. How's my body language?
How am I presenting myself to the team. Am I
giving the boys confidence? Am I giving energy to the boys?
Orm I taking away from them? And I feel like
that's a key part of where I've had to grow
on TJ but helped me a lot with that, you know,
through texts and calls.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
How man Japan's telling me like all.
Speaker 6 (29:44):
These little things because he's been there, played with a
lot of good teams Broughs, So yeah, it's more like
as a teammate, I feel like that's where I've really
had to kind of look introspectively and just think, how
can I lead the boys off the field just as
much as on it, because you have to give confidence
to the team, You have to brief life into it,
and you have to believe all the players that you
(30:04):
run because I have to present.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
It to everyone.
Speaker 6 (30:05):
So it's definitely a big change that I've got a sister.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
I just feel like I've got one opportunity in my love.
Speaker 6 (30:10):
To do something special and at the moment, it's probably
this period to play ten and yeah, I just want
to carry on the great legacy of teens that he's
on said, and.
Speaker 5 (30:20):
The balance between instinctive and playing within the structure. What's
it late Because.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
You know you've got pace, acceleration and play eyes up
for the but then particular listen level. Imagine there's a
lot that goes into the detail around structures and all that.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
Sort of thing.
Speaker 5 (30:35):
What's their balance?
Speaker 6 (30:36):
Like you're the bitty you prepare and the closer you
work with the way the coaches want to play that
allows you to be instinctive.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
And I feel like one thing that we did well.
Speaker 6 (30:43):
In the previous like three tests back home and enz
was we all were on the same wavelength around structure
and instincts, and our instincts became.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
I'll say, you aligned with the structures that we want
to play. And yeah, like I know the running.
Speaker 6 (31:00):
Game for all of us is there, but it's about
you know, if the weather Paxson, or if there's momentum
swings in the game, how can we regain that through
not necessarily in the wall could be going or we're
finding it in different ways.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
So yeah, Like.
Speaker 6 (31:11):
It's been working real close with Mike. Mike Lear is
an awesome coach, bro like, and he's helping. He's just
around Like what you said, the instinct of players and structure,
but at the moment still don't want to complicate it,
Like I know these next few games are gonna be
a way.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Different terms sire, all the kind of things. So yeah,
I keep keep riding the wave and know that.
Speaker 6 (31:33):
All the keys that the coaches are giving me allow
us to get out of pressure moments.
Speaker 5 (31:38):
Touched on a wee bit neither Mike Blear, but my
rings coming in as well.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
From the outside, it seems like there's been some big chefs,
particularly on attack and that sort of thing.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
How much has changed and how much are you relishing
what they brought to the fault?
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Now.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
He's a great coach.
Speaker 6 (31:51):
He's a hum One thing I really admire about him,
bro as he's he's the same, Like he treats you
the same no matter how you play and this na Yeah,
so just like the man he is off the field,
like he's honorable, he's everything you wanted to coach.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
But like he's straightforward to the point.
Speaker 6 (32:08):
And I've only had a few of those coaches in
my career, but those are the ones that get the
best out of the whole group, not just in particular players.
But yeah, he's got a great mind for for counter attacks.
He's really taken charge on encounter and there's little nuanswers
in our attack. I don't want to speak about too much,
but there's no little things like short passing game. It's
a long passing game, possessioning, backfield positioning. So I know
(32:33):
he helps out a lot with the Fords too, So
he must have played every position one to fifteen then
thet the last time a currently.
Speaker 5 (32:38):
But it sort of suits suits your style as well.
I guess up team play, use the ball, use.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
The width of lessons.
Speaker 6 (32:44):
I think, yeah, a lot of it's just if you
see space, take it and analysts and rugby pundits want
to complicate and stuff, and obviously there's a lot of
technical work and technical work behind it, but the main
feature is the there's space, broadtaker. We've got the New
Zealand groscerries rugby producers, some of the best up footy
players in the world, and in recent times we've probably
(33:05):
sipped away from that as a more boat team. But
now we just want to go back to backing one
on ones and our carriers, backing our decision makers if
they've got time on the ball and that kind of stuff.
So Rends has all been about just if you see
supposed to take it with him Sprom plus coup.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Well that about does this? Good to hear from Ruben
Love on the podcast and can't wait for kickoff three
am Sunday, New Zealand. Time Liam give us a prediction.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
I was quietly confident until I saw the teams, and
then I think it really hit home. Why the box
of back to back Wheelchup Cup champions. Why they've won
twelve in a row since their last loss at Eden Park.
So I'm gonna have to tip the box. I just
I looked at that team. It's so formidable. You look
(33:53):
at their bench, it's so settled. They've got cohesion right
across the board. So I'd love to see the All
Blacks do it, but I can't not tip the box.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
I'm going to be all Blacks by three.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
There you go based on at.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Nothing much really, but it vibes. We'll see how it goes.
We're back with you postgame to reflect and wrap on
it all. Thanks as always to Mark Kelly for producing.
We are of course powered by Folklift Solutions, lifting you
and your business to a higher level.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
For more from News Talk sed B, listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks B Follow
this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It's been a highly anticipated build up, Elliott. Hasn't it
a good tour? Three interesting enough tour games underwhelming in
some respects, But I think it's been hugely beneficial for
the All Blacks to be here for that length of time,
to have had a game at altitude, to have that
big squad together. Dave and He's talked a lot about
(00:37):
having a captive audience and all those sorts of things.
But it's all shadow boxing, as you say. We have
the two teams of the trophy, we've heard from Fitsie
and every Man and their Dog, and now we're ready
to rock up to Alis Park and witness what I
hope will be a great occasion that is determined by
the players.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Yes, let's hope that is indeed the case. Let's get
into the two teams first and foremost, the All Blacks named,
and no real surprises. Per SAG, You'd say Fabian Holland
is a bit of a surprise in the second row
because it felt like they were maybe aiming to get
him going in Cape Town from a test perspective, and
Patrick dow belot too. Maybe Sam Dowry might have been
(01:19):
the option here alongside Josh Lord, who I think was
always locked in probably the start. I mean, what a
nine to twelve months Josh Lord said. But Fabin and
Holland getting the nod, was it the big surprise for
you out of the run on sign?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yeah? I think so. Like you, I thought far been
just because of the fact he missed the entire Super
Rugby and the July Test coming back from that shoulder surgery,
that he might have needed a wee bit more game time. Lock.
He was exceptional. He has insatiable work great. He is
a real line out asset in terms of stealing ball,
(01:52):
which I think as an area of the all Black
swall target the box. So my expectation was they would
go of Josh Lord and Patrick two blow too, particularly
after the performance from two plow two. He was pretty
close to man of the match, wasn't he against Ireland
at Eden Park? And I do think they will potentially
miss him both from a scrummaging power perspective and ball carring.
(02:13):
I do have some stats I have prepared for you
that I'll throw you at some point to bring this in,
but I don't think you can deny Fabian Holland as
thoroughly deserving of his place there. And as you say,
Josh Lord's been a massive mover for Bill Blacks in
at the back end of Razes tenure and coming into
(02:34):
this year. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Absolutely. Looking at the rest of the team, you know
pretty much has gone to the way that we thought.
Josh Moreby on the left wing has been a big
mover so far this year since our debuting against Italy
in Wellington last month, felt like he had the inside
(02:55):
track even with Caleb Clark, or before Caleb Clark got injured,
to start on the left wing for this game. And
then the question marks are around the fitness of three
players really, Roy guard Jordan McKenzie. All have been cleared
to play this week soon A movee that McKenzie was
probably the most serious out of the three, even though
he had been out the shortest amount of time. But
(03:16):
he's been cleared to go. We saw him at training
on Tuesday. We get a huge amount of time to
look at these things. Didn't goalkick, but seemed to be
moving relatively freely for at least when I was looking
at him. Apart from when we were recording a video
almost got sconned a few times by some missiles coming through.
(03:37):
But you know, is it a risk do you think
getting these players in it's a four match series. I
guess the importance of winning the first one is power amount.
But you know, I'm sure they wouldn't be playing if
they're not fully fit, but would have been better to
give him, you know, another week's rest per se.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
We heard from Cam Roygard and Will Jordan today, didn't
we end They both extremely confident that they're good to go.
You know, both those guys weren't probably going to play much,
particularly roy Guard even going to play thirty minutes. So look,
you can only take them at their word, but players
are desperate to play and they're always going to tell
(04:15):
you they're good to go. And I think it is
a rusk with McKenzie because clearly he looked, it looked
awkward and he was brought off in the Shark's game
and the back into the first half. I think it
was Rennie was edamant it was fine, and then he
said he was sweating on him and then now he's
(04:36):
good to go, and I can just imagine McKenzie just
pushing it and saying he's good, he's good, and so
I think there is a risk around him that he's
gonna cop so much high ball if he comes down
on it awkwardly, if he gets tackled awkwardly, I think
it could flare up again. So I think there is
an element of rust with McKenzie.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Who would move into fullback if he was injured? Do
you think because Leroy Carter's on the bench, would they
move Jordan? You'd move Jordan into full back and Carter
comes on the wing. He wouldn't move Arett into fullback
and put Anteline and Brown on at that point.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
No, I don't think so. I think Jordi Barrett's importance
for Reuben and Love cannot be understated in his ability
to be to help him with his eyes and ears,
to help run the attack, his big kicking game as well.
He can do some of those things from full back,
but not to the same extent. So I'd be loath
(05:32):
to shake that up too early. And it's our understanding
as well that had Damian McKenzie been ruled out, Will
Jordan would have started at fullback and not Boden Barretts
so I think that's probably where they would have gone.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Interesting, that would be probably the most likely and probably
the most singless option in terms of not moving too
many parts of the back line around just on the bench,
you know, Leroy cardigting the nod over her or Rico
youani a little bit of a surprise for me. I
just wonder whether that seven skill set of Leroy Carter's,
(06:11):
and for he was a sevens player as well, and
Rico in the distant past too, but with a LeRoy's
ability just at altitude to try and run around the
spring box a little bit might be more their thinking.
You know, you don't get the power that you would
with a thinny young and all for but Leroy Carter
potentially just try and stretch somebody's tiring springbox defenders.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Potentially, Yeah, I would have liked to have seen for
him been included. I think he's much more of a
point of difference in terms of his power, his ability
to beat a man one on one. I think he's
a really strong defender. Maybe they've still got some concerns
about him under the high ball, and I think le
Roy Carter certainly has a higher work rate, which Dave
(06:54):
Rennie likes, so I would have probably gone for he
and I was also surprised that they went George Bauer
over Xavier new Mayor, and Rennie was asked about that
at Press Current today and indicated that he was fit
and that he went with George Bauer was purely a
selection decision. So for me, that's probably the conservative option.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Look, he kind of huges his bets a little bit
Rini because he said, you know, it was a it
was a decision based on form or based on experience
of George Bauer, but also to me had an Achlly's
issue that saw him come off against half at half
time against the Balls. So perhaps there's a little bit
of you know, a little from Colin a a little
from colmb sort of scenario there. Because I'm sure seeing
(07:36):
Amiya come in again potentially for the second Eastern Cape,
it surprised me to see him not play a role
in this Test series.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, we haven't seen a lot of them for the
All Blacks, but I think when what we have seen
has been very good. So he came off the bench
against Islands and he started against the Bulls, albeit against
a weekend Bulls team, but that was with tyro A
Lomax and Cody Taylor, and that was zell Blacks by
far the best scrummaging performance on this tour. So that
(08:04):
was a relative box ticked. So yeah, I'd like to
see more of Xavier Numia.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Do you want to help me with those stats?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Would that be all right?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
It is timely? Yeah, why not? So? I think these stats, Elliott,
they're just going to paint a bit of a picture
for you here, okay, for the team's relative strengths. So
since the twenty twenty three will cut South Africa boasts
the four top props with the highest percentage of scrump penalties,
now that's not necessarily a shock, but three of them
(08:37):
will call low Steam Camp and young Hendrik Vessels will
pack down against the All Blacks, and the other is
obviously ox Niche, who's widely regarded as the world's best scrimmager.
So that's clearly where they're going to come for the
All Blacks, and that the stats bear that outs that
(08:59):
they scrump for penalties, they get penalties, so they'll blocks
be aware of that. But I just think without Patrick
two Polo too, I do worry a little bit about
the scrum strength. So that's one another telling point to
where the Box generate the momentum. France and South Africa
were the only teams and the three July Internationals to
average four or more meters per carries. Your Blacks ranked
eighth and the same window, so clearly the Box are
(09:23):
generating a lot more go forward. And I do have
concerns when I look at the composition of the All
Blacks forward pack about their ability to bend and break
the line.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Yeah, I do it as well. I think Holland is
getting there, and we saw him roaming around on the
weekend at loftus verse Feld. But I think especially with
you know YouTube advised moved into a blindside and he
adds a plenty of line out time he's I think
(09:53):
you lose a bit by having not having an explosive six.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
He's not a natural six, natural six, and even though
I spoke to him this sweet it's that there's a
big adjustment. It wasn't on as Bingo card to play
there this year, So yeah, you get more height in
the LINEU, but I think you do compromise that when
you compare them to a Peter Luckeye both from ball
carrying and a speed and agility on the edge and
(10:16):
just on that the two of those locks are gonna
have to play eighty minutes.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Yeah, yeah, there was no come on there at altitude. Yeah,
it is a risk, and that's why I probably would
have leant towards a six to two bench in all honesty,
I think especially this game at altitude, you probably could
have afforded to maybe trust your back Maybe with Cam
Royguard being injured and Will Jordan and Damien McKenzie, they
(10:43):
didn't feel like they could go with a six to
two bench just because those players are coming off injuries,
so potentially that would have been one of the reasons.
But I would have liked having a lot cover in
a game like this, And maybe you go with a
you Preston and a Carter or Preston and a fine
Young and off is your your backline cover potentially, so
(11:05):
perhaps that's come into it, but I would have I
would have liked some lock covered when we sent had
good Toto has been coming off the bench for the
All Blacks over the last three four years, thirty minutes
off the bench, he's been really really dynamics, a real weapon. Yeah,
so I personally would have gone with a six to
two bench and had in there or maybe Darry's been
carrying exception. He's probably been the All Blacks best locked
(11:26):
so far this year in terms of the test matches.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah, I don't Darry has been great. I don't think
he has the same physicality as some of the other
All Blacks locks and will come to the box team,
I'm sure. But they have got a five to three
six to two bench with on Andre Estahesen fulfilling that
lestifying Anoku hybrid role. So that's a real trunk card
for them and just one last step for you. In
(11:49):
terms of the contrasts, So the All Black strength third
behind France and Ireland for average attacking ruck speed in
July with two point nine to five seconds. The Springboks
were by far the slowest with four point two six seconds.
So for all the talk about this slow pace game
this week and who's telling Porky's and whatnot, that, I
(12:12):
think that does speak to the All Black's desire to
play at pace and the spring Boks probably kicking a
lot more from the base and taking their time.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Yeah, I think you're exactly right there. And look, this
has been one of the backdrops to the week. Hasn't
it the sniping? I guess you'd call it between the
two sides. We saw Russy Erasmus well out Yuka Piper
on Monday local time, Yucko Pipeer the former test referee
of course, and our national laws advisor to South African
(12:42):
rugby talking about how they've been perfectly within the limits
of setting lineouts and various things. And then they doubled
down on a Tuesday with Felix Jones coming out and
pointing out a few things that the Shark Stormers Bulls
coached offered up to them about what the All Blacks
were doing illegally in those games, and Dave Renny coming
out today and going, well, actually, no will penalise once,
(13:05):
didn't do it again in terms of polling players down
in the all or thrown players across the line that
it's been once and done. So, you know, this goes
back to the top around the shadow boxing is that
this is all part of the theater of rugby and
with the way the rules are now that both coaches
have to agree to meet before they can do so,
(13:26):
it kind of creates a scenario where they're going to
do this in the media because there's no either way
for it to get, you know, into the path of
the referee. Really, they've got to be reading it online
or you know, in the newspaper over their morning coffee,
whether it's Matthew Carve or whoever it might be, because
(13:46):
they can't meet because neither coach decided to or Russie didn't,
so it meant Reddy couldn't either.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yeah, I really don't like the public exerting of pressure
on the official zen. Look, Rennie, you could argue he
might have started it by talking about the South African franchises,
not the spring Box slowing the pacey reference that the
Sharks taking fifty seconds to form an out and look,
if we're being honest, we have seen the spring walk
(14:12):
slow the pace, whether it be feigning injuries or using
the a lot of time to go to the set piece.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
And there are a couple ofications els did it lost
this vest help and.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
They're allowed to use that a lot of time? It's
it's it's the other stuff. But I don't like the winging.
I think it detracts from the spectacle call I don't
think we needed in the game. So I think it's
been left a wee bit of a sour taste because
the Springboks are being very avert about that this week.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Yeah, it was interesting. We went to both into Russia
Rasmus this Thursday team naming conference you only get in
the day, and didn't really go there. Again, decided I
wasn't really asked a question about it to decide, I
didn't really bring it into the topic of conversation today.
So maybe he's happy to let sleeping dogs lie and
just get on with the game on Saturday, which I
(15:01):
think would be good for everyone.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
It would just before we leave. The officials will have
to be squeaky clean. I looked and Matthew Carley, the Englishman,
he dished out three yellow cards. So last time Neil
Blacks in South Africa, I think you're at that game
in keep Town. And three more when the All Blacks
said that humbling loss to the box at Twickenham. Scott
Barrett cop two of those prior to the twenty twenty
(15:23):
three World Cups. So not shy of flashing the card
as Carly.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
No, he's not, and the All Blacks have not beat
in South Africa with him in charge. They've got an
zero and three record with him with the whistle they have.
I think I think it's a five and three record
overall with Carli, but all those wins not coming against
South Africa. South Africa with a seven win two loss record.
I don't know how much you reading so previous referee
(15:48):
history and with that matters, but world right, we put
it out of the match notes, so clearly something that
we can talk about.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
You. Yeah, I think you can read more into trends
and styles are referring and Carlie is certainly a stickler.
He will come hard and earlier about some things. And yeah,
he won't be afraid to send players to the naughty
chef if he wants the stampers authority early.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
No, exactly. Look and look, I've had some comments about
the referees previously on the podcast, but again they're not
only doing what Wild Rugby's ask them too. And so
let's hope that Carli, I, Mischa, Kelly Gardner and Dixon,
you know, just referee to the spirit of the series.
(16:34):
And we're not talking about a decision they mate. We're
talking about a moment of brilliance that the All Blacks
do or South Africa do. Let's hope we're talking about
the rugby. Ultimately on the park.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
YEP, that's what everyone wants. Look, it's gonna be a
Alice Park is one of the great arenas in world rugby.
It's hard to beat and you just want the rugby
to do the talking.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
To you do.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Indeed, speaking of someone's going to do talking, you spoke
to Ruben Love during the week. We'll close out the
podcast the few thoughts from Ruben Love. But let's talk
about the spring Box and their team. No s Calisi.
At one point we thought he was out for the series.
The russy Erasmus said on Monday that I might be
all right for this week. Well, ultimately he's not. They
don't lose a lot because Paul de Ville is in
(17:17):
the six years he had an exceptional July window.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
He's the next big thing, isn't he? Twenty three year
old Tyro.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
And Peter steff Detoy captaining them Oxnetzsche, it is good
to go from that injury. You know, Malcolm Mark starts.
You know a lot of questions around what they do
at ten, but Sasha Feinberg and Goneozulu to start at
tea and they've got Marley Liboc waiting in the wings.
Remember Hondre Pollard this week. I haven't seen the last
of Hondre, I'm sure in this series. So they've got
(17:43):
plenty of options, but relatively predictable sort of team by
and large from the spring Box. And you look at
the back line. And he didn't have a lot to
say at the media conference today, but Damian Vellen's so
I can still remember how we just carved up the
All Blacks last time Ada in Wellington.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
He's a weapon.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
He was absolute weapon and he was absolutely bouncing on
him speaking to Jason Pine on sideline with us and
he was sort of rocking after a stunning performance. And
if he gets going, the All Blacks are in a
bit of strife. So look, a really good spring Box
team was never not going to be a good Springboks
team whoever they picked. But yeah, you can look at that,
and you mentioned the props and things like that before
(18:21):
the size of the challenge. You know, now, wait's the
All Blacks, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Oh yeah, when he rolls out that team, you're like,
oh shit, you're not missing about here. No, it's gonna
be bloody tough. Damien Delende playing his hundredth Just the
names in that pack. Evan needs to be Yeah, Malcolm
Marx will player of the Year last year. Just there
multiple threats at the breakdown in particular. You know the
(18:46):
All Backs want to play at pace. I think they
are gonna find it a real challenge. They need to
get their cleaners in and numbers. I think Roygard's a
real asset there, his size, his ability to shake off
defenders and deal with rut pressure. This is his first
start against the spring Box. I'm really intrigued to see
how he goes a wee bit surprised that Sasha to
(19:07):
get the nods. Obviously they've got great depth there, but
he's only had one game in two months since coming
back from the ankle injury and it was really scratchy,
albeit in a makeshift spring Box team. They left half
their squads in South Africa for that game in Argentina.
But he is the golden boy and together with Grant Williams.
Does that perhaps suggest that they might play a wee
(19:30):
bit more rugby than most people expect.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Yeah, potentially, and it'll be interesting at Alice Park because
I thought that they'd probably go Sasha in Cape Town
and maybe start Leboc or Pollard here potentially a little
bit more expansive. You know, Russ, He's talked a lot
about the All Blacks and what they're going to do
and the way they want to play at pace. But
it wouldn't surprise me and the Springbox will scrum for penalties,
(19:53):
but it wouldn't surprise me to see them try and
take on the All Blacks alien and whether they can
last Friday minutes and pace that way. But it wouldn't
surprise me just to try and maybe see them try
and make a statement inside that opening twenty minutes and
play with a lot of heat against the All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yes, it is a different style of ten, but he
actually often or has the ability to play twelve. He's
quite big and physical, so he can challenge the line,
take contact, offload so that attracts defenders. He's very silky
and other regards as well, but hasn't had a lot
of rugby lately. But I'm sure both Tony Brown behind
(20:31):
the scenes will be cooking up a few specials, a
few specials, and i think particularly from the line outs,
Neil Barnes and Jason Ryan will be trying to devise
something similar. So it'd be interesting to see if they
get the platform to launch those.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Yeah, line still sticks me. Stick with me that Scott
Robertson said back when he was Crusader's coach and Tony
Brown was at the Highlanders at that point, and Scott
Robertson said that Tony Brown's got more specials than Brisco's,
so great, we will see what he's got up his sleeves.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Just on Russy, you mentioned we went to his prescurrence today.
What did you make? Was it mind games? He's adamant
that the third game is going to be the defining
one to the point that he was talking about and
also just this level of detail of knowledge about the
average minutes of the All Blacks and comparing them to
the spring Box. The fact that the All Blacks have
(21:26):
nine new players in the squad that they didn't that
the spring Box didn't play last year. He nominated them
all in the starting team, three in the starting team
and six on the bench, and so his analysis is
a very very detail. But Russy adamant that the third
game in this series is going to be the defining one,
to the point that managing minutes is very important keeping
(21:47):
players fresh, which will be easier for the box given
their depth, Is that taking pressure off this first test?
Or what did you make of I guess just that
sort of statement.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
I think it was a bit of a surprise in
a way because I hadn't considered that sort of thought.
But he's right. The third is going to be utimately
defining whether some teams up to nil after two weeks
and they can go and win it in Sueto in
week three. I get the sentence that he thinks this
is gonna be a tight series and that if you
(22:19):
win in Sueto it's two to one, you probably go
to Baltimore with a bit of momentum. It's a long flights,
or to Washington, DC, wherever both the teams are going
to land. He probably go with a bit of momentum,
whereas the team to one down it probably isn't gonna
go with as much momentum. Could be a long flight,
all that sort of things. So I think he's probably right.
(22:41):
And he sort of suggested that with Segur is that
you know, if he's playing game three, then they're probably
in good neck. And he compared it to the World
Cup run, you know, a quarter final, semi finals finals.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
So we mentioned the fact they lost the first game
in the British Irish Lions series, came back and won that.
They were the first team in history to drop a
World Cup Pool game and still respond and regroup and
win that twice.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Yeah, you know, they're all about rising for the big
occasion of the spring Box and they certainly know how
to do it. So you know if Russy, if Russy
says it, then it must be true. So well and
see how it all unfolds. But the stage is a
certainly set forward. You know, this game to get under Wagh.
As I mentioned, you spoke with Ruben Love on this
(23:23):
tour and got some thoughts around him. Fascinated to see
how he goes. Biggest test of his career.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Isn't it absolutely facing the Box in South Africa for
the first time in his fourth test, seizing the reins
and yeah, massive occasion for him and many others. I
think he's played a wee bit within himself at times
and it's going to be interesting to see how that
(23:48):
stage affects him and everything from the spring Box line speed.
You know, facing these things for the first time, You've
got Delende and Creole and all the big Box forward
pack charging it. He doesn't like bravery, but there's gonna
be a lot to deal with. I think he is
very inherently confident, so I don't expect them to be overawed.
(24:10):
But I hope you've got the the confidence to throw
that long ball if it's on and and not going
to a shell a little bit, that'll be a fascinating scenario.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Let's here about to your chat with Rubin love for
now here on Rugby the Ricks.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
Yes, I can reflect on the year, Rubin, How's how's
has it been? Probably must take a lot of confidence
for everything that's even.
Speaker 6 (24:34):
Yeah, it's definitely felt like a long, longer season than
I've been spinning, for sure, because you go NonStop since
since Jenny or even from the end of at all
last year. It's just going to be a non stop
working towards one goal for the Super Ugly Final and
getting there, and then you know three days later you're
on all backs camp. So yeah, it heavens real quick.
And yeah, I guess there's a lot on a lot
(24:57):
of All Becks games, so it's like the biggest calendar year.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
So I didn't want to try you too far here.
Speaker 6 (25:02):
I think we focused on frost here and the Navy's
camp was just like game by game because there's so
many games, especially this tour moment in Africa, there's there's
eight games in something like six weeks.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Just being able to take a game by game and
just making sure it's pure enjoyment not becoming like a job.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
You've had to be patient, right, you know, and years
gone by, and the seen you mentioned coming out here
in twenty four and not playing, and then that last
year was I think you might have played a couple
of games.
Speaker 5 (25:29):
But how much are you relishing.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Being backed you know, been throwing the keys and and
and you know, running.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
The gator for hill Blacks.
Speaker 6 (25:40):
Yeah, it's pretty special because, like you said, the two
year period that I was there and didn't really play much,
I was, I was training a lot of the time,
and certainly allowed me to look at myself a little
bit more like on the field and off the field,
like why why I wasn't playing And purely for the
(26:01):
fact the last two years I probably wasn't good enough.
And you have to you have to take that personally
and reflect on your game.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
And I think that was a.
Speaker 6 (26:09):
Big personal note for me over the last off season
that I had after the NBA to all last year,
it was just it's my second year, Like I haven't played.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
I haven't.
Speaker 6 (26:21):
Like cemented the position or anything like that. So it's
just like I just want to put everything into this offseason,
train hard, go back home and see the people that
I love them and be around them and find that inspiration.
And I feel like I did dead and especially that
December on remember decend, December January period, it was just
like br didn't see any of my teammates. It was
just people that I grew up with back home, a Parmey, Foxton, Yea, and.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
How my parents basically lived there.
Speaker 6 (26:49):
So I just spent all my time there and just
had a common goal at the end of the off
season to want to be the tenth of a Hurricans
and the tenth for the all works. And it took
a lot of hard work out, more like off the
fielder than anything to have the self belief and I
feel like I can thought, so yeah, it's worked out okay,
but it's still so a long way to go and
haven't done anything yet.
Speaker 5 (27:10):
I've spent all their fox and friends. You know, you
throughout your career prior to this year, you moved between.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Ten and fifteen a lot, right, how much is committing
to ten and then having that time and they set
off for the games.
Speaker 5 (27:29):
Propelled you into this position.
Speaker 6 (27:32):
Yeah, I just think back to but I started the
Hurricanes Jason Holland believed the me when I was nineteen
and then got injured for the best part of two
Super seasons with microin and in their interim like Britt
Cameron was unreal and I came back and paid fullback
for a while. But in my head, I still believe
that I was a ten and like for Chase or
(27:55):
Alf to see me as a ten, and I think
it was like twenty to twenty one and I didn't
even believe in myself meant so much to me then
and Clark having that conversation with me the middle of
last year about where I want to play and like
went back in ten. Had like them having the trust
in me, and because the times bro like if anyone
says they're one hundred percent of confidence in themselves every
(28:17):
single nay.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Like they're life.
Speaker 6 (28:18):
So there were definitely times of doubt. Bad games, bad
trainings came on like a roller coaster. So but them
waver and support when I'll be going to sleep and
night was like far right man, like, I gotta believe
in myself because they do as well. And so yeah,
there's those two guys support honestly meant the world to me.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
Even when I was an All Backs environment.
Speaker 6 (28:38):
Those two were text me health or Jason Holland and
Clark just be like, just keep pushing, keep getting rids.
At ten, I definite would have been playing ten for
the All Backs now if it wasn't for them, Like
I genuinely believed that. So yeah, those those two allowed
me to bet myself at.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Ten would have been the big shift shift head to
make a new game because that's similar positions are a
ten and fifteen, but ten is so much more on
your shoulders.
Speaker 5 (28:59):
From a game driving perspective, what have you learned throughout
the year? What changes have you made in your game?
Speaker 6 (29:06):
Obviously there's a lot of tech components of it. Being
able to read the game field, the momentum swings make
plays more so in the middle of the field rather
than the fullback who's probably a little bit wider and
going like away from the technic kealies of the game.
That's more like being like a leader, like being able
(29:26):
to have to look at myself. How's my body language?
How am I presenting myself to the team. Am I
giving the boys confidence? Am I giving energy to the boys?
Orm I taking away from them? And I feel like
that's a key part of where I've had to grow
on TJ but helped me a lot with that, you know,
through texts and calls.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
How man Japan's telling me like all.
Speaker 6 (29:44):
These little things because he's been there, played with a
lot of good teams Broughs, So yeah, it's more like
as a teammate, I feel like that's where I've really
had to kind of look introspectively and just think, how
can I lead the boys off the field just as
much as on it, because you have to give confidence
to the team, You have to brief life into it,
and you have to believe all the players that you
(30:04):
run because I have to present.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
It to everyone.
Speaker 6 (30:05):
So it's definitely a big change that I've got a sister.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
I just feel like I've got one opportunity in my love.
Speaker 6 (30:10):
To do something special and at the moment, it's probably
this period to play ten and yeah, I just want
to carry on the great legacy of teens that he's
on said, and.
Speaker 5 (30:20):
The balance between instinctive and playing within the structure. What's
it late Because.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
You know you've got pace, acceleration and play eyes up
for the but then particular listen level. Imagine there's a
lot that goes into the detail around structures and all that.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
Sort of thing.
Speaker 5 (30:35):
What's their balance?
Speaker 6 (30:36):
Like you're the bitty you prepare and the closer you
work with the way the coaches want to play that
allows you to be instinctive.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
And I feel like one thing that we did well.
Speaker 6 (30:43):
In the previous like three tests back home and enz
was we all were on the same wavelength around structure
and instincts, and our instincts became.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
I'll say, you aligned with the structures that we want
to play. And yeah, like I know the running.
Speaker 6 (31:00):
Game for all of us is there, but it's about
you know, if the weather Paxson, or if there's momentum
swings in the game, how can we regain that through
not necessarily in the wall could be going or we're
finding it in different ways.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
So yeah, Like.
Speaker 6 (31:11):
It's been working real close with Mike. Mike Lear is
an awesome coach, bro like, and he's helping. He's just
around Like what you said, the instinct of players and structure,
but at the moment still don't want to complicate it,
Like I know these next few games are gonna be
a way.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Different terms sire, all the kind of things. So yeah,
I keep keep riding the wave and know that.
Speaker 6 (31:33):
All the keys that the coaches are giving me allow
us to get out of pressure moments.
Speaker 5 (31:38):
Touched on a wee bit neither Mike Blear, but my
rings coming in as well.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
From the outside, it seems like there's been some big chefs,
particularly on attack and that sort of thing.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
How much has changed and how much are you relishing
what they brought to the fault?
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Now.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
He's a great coach.
Speaker 6 (31:51):
He's a hum One thing I really admire about him,
bro as he's he's the same, Like he treats you
the same no matter how you play and this na Yeah,
so just like the man he is off the field,
like he's honorable, he's everything you wanted to coach.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
But like he's straightforward to the point.
Speaker 6 (32:08):
And I've only had a few of those coaches in
my career, but those are the ones that get the
best out of the whole group, not just in particular players.
But yeah, he's got a great mind for for counter attacks.
He's really taken charge on encounter and there's little nuanswers
in our attack. I don't want to speak about too much,
but there's no little things like short passing game. It's
a long passing game, possessioning, backfield positioning. So I know
(32:33):
he helps out a lot with the Fords too, So
he must have played every position one to fifteen then
thet the last time a currently.
Speaker 5 (32:38):
But it sort of suits suits your style as well.
I guess up team play, use the ball, use.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
The width of lessons.
Speaker 6 (32:44):
I think, yeah, a lot of it's just if you
see space, take it and analysts and rugby pundits want
to complicate and stuff, and obviously there's a lot of
technical work and technical work behind it, but the main
feature is the there's space, broadtaker. We've got the New
Zealand groscerries rugby producers, some of the best up footy
players in the world, and in recent times we've probably
(33:05):
sipped away from that as a more boat team. But
now we just want to go back to backing one
on ones and our carriers, backing our decision makers if
they've got time on the ball and that kind of stuff.
So Rends has all been about just if you see
supposed to take it with him Sprom plus coup.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Well that about does this? Good to hear from Ruben
Love on the podcast and can't wait for kickoff three
am Sunday, New Zealand. Time Liam give us a prediction.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
I was quietly confident until I saw the teams, and
then I think it really hit home. Why the box
of back to back Wheelchup Cup champions. Why they've won
twelve in a row since their last loss at Eden Park.
So I'm gonna have to tip the box. I just
I looked at that team. It's so formidable. You look
(33:53):
at their bench, it's so settled. They've got cohesion right
across the board. So I'd love to see the All
Blacks do it, but I can't not tip the box.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
I'm going to be all Blacks by three.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
There you go based on at.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Nothing much really, but it vibes. We'll see how it goes.
We're back with you postgame to reflect and wrap on
it all. Thanks as always to Mark Kelly for producing.
We are of course powered by Folklift Solutions, lifting you
and your business to a higher level.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
For more from News Talk sed B, listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
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