August 27, 2026 • 30 mins
On the latest episode of Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier join the podcast from Cape Town ahead of a massive second test between the All Blacks and Springboks.
With New Zealand chasing a series-clinching 2-0 lead and South Africa desperate to square the ledger, the boys break down the key battles that will decide the contest.
What must the All Blacks do to back up their Ellis Park triumph, and how will the Boks respond under pressure? Elliott and Liam debate it all.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from Newstalk ZB. Follow this
and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. Get
inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct with
(00:33):
Elliot Smith and Liam Napier. Powered by Newstalk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Forklift Solutions. Lifting you
and your business to a higher level. Elliot Smith with me.
Liam Napier. Test team locked in for the second test
of Rugby's greatest rivalry. All Blacks leading the series 1-0
of course. Liam, we last convened on Sunday our time.
(00:59):
Good to see you again. Now move to Cape Town,
back to sea level. Are you enjoying that?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Loving it, yes.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
One of the great cities of the world, Cape Town. Picturesque, captivating, quite.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Stunning, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
That's just me.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Yeah, what more can a man want to sit across
the table from you? It's been a long tour. You're
looking bloody good, actually.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
We had the All Blacks play the Lions in Johannesburg.
A little bit of an afterthought, really. That game, I
guess the All Blacks win it, but I don't know
what it means, if anything, in the context of the
wider tour. What did you take out of it?
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Look, it's valuable, I think.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
The whole tour is on the whole to bring 44,
45 players away and to keep them engaged the whole time,
to be able to give them game time. So that's
a positive, to get looks at different players, give guys
like Tava Tavanawa around the midfield, Have a look at
Semisitai Loa and the Highlanders prop, Ma'u, off the bench.
(02:06):
I was really impressed by him. And a very special occasion.
He was very emotional, wasn't he, in the post-match. So, look,
some positives. But it did feel like one game too
many on this tour. You played the first test.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
You're juggling everything.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Another game in the midst of the second test week.
It was a team that barely trained together and it
was very evident. Despite having quite a lot of experience
in that team, it was very scrappy. Look, credit to
the Lions, came to play. They were by far the
most enterprising, entertaining of the South African teams. Actually won
me over, came out to one of the Lion King songs.
(02:43):
And it was a great atmosphere for a very small crowd.
But yeah, the All Blacks' performance, I think... left a
lot to be desired, and wild guys like Rico Awani,
Ethan Blackadder, and Amoni Narawa impressed. They were never going
to be included for this second test, having all, I think,
(03:04):
played 80 minutes on a Tuesday before a Saturday game.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, it was never going to have a material impact.
It may do for the third test and fourth test,
but it was always hard to see a player that
went 80 minutes on the Tuesday night, backing up and
playing Saturday afternoon here, just unrealistic, I think. But look,
the All Blacks take the win. It was not very pretty,
but they managed to rally from 18 points down. Young-ish
(03:27):
All Blacks team had to learn a few lessons, but
ultimately probably glad, I think, as a whole that the
midweek games are now done. We can focus on the
remaining three tests in the series. It's going to be
locked in. Focus on that. Don't have to worry about
any more midweekers. I think ultimately that's a good thing.
And look, we talked a little bit last week around
(03:49):
the future shape of the series. They'll probably go back
and tweak it. They modelled this one very much on
a Lions series style. You play a whole lot of
tour games before the first test, and then you play
one more after it. But I think the difference with
the Lions is that you're bringing players from four different
teams together into one. You have to get combinations right.
(04:12):
You have to get things sorted. And in the modern-day
professional system for the All Blacks, I think it doesn't
quite mirror what the Lions look to get out of
those midweekers.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Yeah, well, SARU president Mike Alexander has already come out
and said these franchise games haven't worked, and there's a
number of contributing factors for that. I think the games
leading into the Test Series can provide value. Probably, you know,
they're such special occasions for emerging players, veteran players who
(04:46):
haven't played or maybe never will on the Test scene.
The Lions certainly rose to the occasion, and they're valuable
for the All Blacks to bring over a wider squad.
But I think if they had a choice next time around,
that'd been that last game. It just felt like a
bit much, a bit unnecessary when you're trying to prepare
for a massive second test.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah, and it will be a massive second test on
Saturday afternoon. We'll get into that in a moment. Some
other news out of the All Blacks camp. Anton Signer,
his tour is over. Unfortunately for him, we suspected this
would be the case Back on Sunday, he's had whole surgery.
The good news, potentially, is that he should be back
for the Bledisloe series in October. So a positive there
(05:28):
for Anton Cegna, but look, an opportunity missed, and who
knows how they would have configured the side had he
been fit for this week. All sorts of sliding doors
moments and that sort of thing, but shame that his
tour has come to an end.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yeah, absolutely. He was in great form.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
And really feel for him, having been on the cusp
of playing the box at Ells Park and having that
ripped away from him. But as you say, maybe a
best-case scenario in terms of what we originally thought it
might be, arthritis, all sorts of permutations around how that
might look, but the fact it was more an infection
by the sounds and it's been cleaned out and he's
(06:05):
expected to make a full recovery. Saw him boosting round
on one of those How would you describe that contraption
with the leg up and the wheels?
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Yeah, sort of like a mini moped sort of thing, yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Mini scooter around the team hotel while they were playing
a bit of BYC out in the courtyards. Look, the
All Blacks seem in great spirits generally, don't they? And
even Anton Cegner, you know, while he's disappointed, he'll be back.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
He will be, absolutely, and it's a good thing for
Simon Parker who gets the opportunity. Let's get into the
team that has been named for Saturday afternoon's test, 5pm
local time, 3am in New Zealand. no real surprises apart
from the big one in the back line, which is
the only unforced change that Dave Rennie's made to his 23,
which is Leroy Carter in for Josh Morby, and Dave
(06:52):
Rennie explaining that's purely a defensive decision, or largely a
defensive decision, backing Leroy Carter's defence over Josh Morby, but
said the call was tight as it was the previous week,
so a little bit of a surprise that Leroy Carter's
won that race.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Yeah, I think it is a surprise.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Look, Josh Morby missed the tackle on Esterhazen, just pure one-on-one,
bumped off. That was his Springboks-only try, so maybe he's
paid the price for that one moment. He did respond
and take that juggling Tupu Vai offload to score, and
he's had some moments. I think Lee Ricarda is better defensively.
(07:29):
We saw that at Eden Park last September, came off
his wing, put in some massive hits, punches above his weight,
talked about how that stems from the seven scene where
you're covering a lot of ground. I'm not sure Lee
Rokata is going to solve the All Blacks issues under
the high ball, but I guess we'll find out.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
We will indeed. Look, I asked him, I asked him,
how do you solve or handle the high ball? And
he just says, just try to catch it, which I
suppose is true. But it seems to be a real
Achilles heel for the All Blacks. Whoever they put on
the wing seems to be battling with the whole grasp
of actually being able to do so.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
Yeah, it's pretty hard to navigate, isn't it? It is
a strength for the box, not just their penchant for
going to the air, but their wingers, their loose forwards,
their locks, all contestable very well. They love to make
it scrappy, and it's an ongoing vulnerability for the All Blacks.
They have improved with the technique of running back and
(08:28):
catching the ball, but they weren't great at Alice Park
in that area. And I do wonder if a guy
like Amoni Narawa, I know it's only a small sample size,
but he really does feel like a guy in terms
of his size and skill set that could rapidly come
through the ranks there.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah, maybe. I'm not convinced about Narawa under the high
ball either, but no one else is convincing. So I
would like to see him get another opportunity in the
All Blacks. Last test match he played was At Eden
Park last year, scored a wonderful try off a Bowdoin
Mount Crossfield kick and then got himself injured in the
act of scoring. I think he's still got plenty more
to give at test level. I think the jury is
(09:09):
firmly out on Finneanga Norfolk and whether he is a.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
Seems quite brittle, almost gets injured every time he plays.
He looked like he limped off at Alice Park 45
minutes into that game.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, I think there's some question marks, and it'll be
fascinating to see, and this is, you know, we've got
three tests against it, I forget to get through first,
and a bled is low, but what Dave Rennie does
for the end of year tour, and, you know, Lester Fying,
a nook who might be back, or should be back
by then.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
He's a pretty valuable asset to have on the bench
to cover. Certainly, the All Blacks view him as a wing,
who can maybe pitch in the loose forwards, so a
squeeze is coming.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
The squeeze is coming. Kyron Tamuifala is playing really well
for Tasman. He is eligible, I think, around October.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Caleb Clarke probably done for the year?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
I think so, but I haven't heard the full extent
of that. So, yeah, the squeeze is coming, and it's
time for players to put their hands up, and a
big opportunity for Leroy Carter this week. The other changes
uh fairly well telegraphed from Dave Rennie um I guess
there was a bit of um consternation I suppose is
the word whether they would go with uh Parker on
(10:15):
the blind side or with their retained Tupo Vaidya and
put Tui Piloto uh in the second row we knew
it was going to be Tui Piloto in the 23
given how early he was hooked from the winner over
the Lions but they've gone with Parker on the blind
side massive test for Simon Parker coming on Saturday afternoon
isn't it?
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Absolutely and look he's made massive strides certainly in the
All Blacks eyes from July where he was well down
the rung didn't feature at all he started up blind
side against the Stormers and the Bulls the All Blacks
were really impressed by what he did against the Bulls
and They rate his profile, don't they? His size, his
(10:58):
ability to defend the mall, to bring a bit of
height to the lineouts, to do the dirty work around
the rucks. And it was interesting to hear Dave Rennie
talk today that they're still going to try and use
Tupu Vai on the edges where he was really effective
early on, in particular against the box, and to get
Parker in the middle of the park. So Parker's effectively
(11:19):
playing around the field like a lock potentially, and Tupu
Vai is playing loose forward, so it's only in the scrums.
And it does make sense because Tupu Vai was a
big part of shoring up that scrum, switching from blindside
to lock. And then I think when Tui Palautu comes on,
maybe Vai will go to the blindside as well.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yeah, could well be what they do there. Parker's going
to have to step up. He has had opportunities previously
and failed to probably convince, but this is a big opportunity.
as I say, Anton Signer's out injured I think back
to a couple of years ago here in South Africa
where they brought in Wallace Atiti at Blindside Flanker for
(12:01):
the Cape Town Test and that really set off the
path of Wallace Atiti becoming at that stage a first
choice All Black for the rest of that season. He's
now fallen away a little bit but Parker's got a
big opportunity to stamp his mark on this Test series
and an All Blacks jersey I think on Saturday afternoon
so We'll see how he goes.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Yeah, massive opportunity for him, particularly in an area that's stacked,
isn't it? I just want to raise something here. A
bit of an undercurrent suggestions maybe of an inherent or
subconscious chief spice among the All Blacks selectors. We've seen
Bradley Slater called in at hooker. I don't know if
(12:43):
it's prevalent.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
They could have called in East Feather Blues. Brodie McAllister
was a Chiefs option.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Yes, but.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
OK, that's more of a Taranaki connection, isn't it, with
Neil Barnes? You all right? I think in terms of
contestable selections, you could look at guys like Simon Parker,
Lee Ricarda, and maybe Anton Leonard-Brown and say Chiefs guys
have potentially been favoured. Look, Scott Robertson, when he got
the job, massive scrutiny on whether he was going to
(13:12):
favour the Crusaders. I don't think he did that. Overlook
guys like Havillee. Dave Rennie doesn't necessarily have a lot
of personal connections with players from the Chiefs. Maybe Dave Rennie, sorry,
Damien McKenzie and a couple of others.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah, I think he said he coached Luke Jacobson when
he was quite young.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
Yeah, and look, I'll be the first to admit, I
didn't think Luke Jacobson was the right selection and he
has absolutely taken that chance and.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Run with it.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Do you feel like there's any credence to that at
this point?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
I don't think so. Look, I think Yeah, people will
argue that the Hurricanes finished and won the title this year,
but it doesn't feel like there's an inherent Chiefs bias
to that point. I think what we're probably seeing is
some Chiefs players that we're probably seeing the best out
of at test level that maybe we hadn't previously, and
Luke Jacobson would be number one in that regard. So
(14:06):
I think Dave Rennie's come in and gone, maybe this
guy hasn't been used as well as he could have
been previously, hadn't been given the right job, for want
of a better more encompassing term in a in a
test match team um and now they're finding ways that
they can utilize it so i don't think so um
you know you can always talk to your own biases
(14:28):
but i don't see it there at the moment um
but there's always room for that to grow over time
and play and coaches always have their own you know
favorite players and not actually blind spots but they have
players that they believe they can get the best out of.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Yeah, their tendencies. It's interesting to see how it evolves.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
I think this game's, I think it's probably too soon
to make that sort of judgment, but there is certainly
guys like Rico and Naraway, who's another chief, to be fair,
and Blackadder, maybe. That was one performance against a Lions team,
so there's a bit of context there. But yeah, interesting
to see how things evolve. Look, we're in Cape Town.
(15:08):
We went up Table Mountain yesterday. Stunning views, nice to
take in some of the city. It's got a few nicknames,
the Mother City, and the Cape of Good Hope was
originally named the Cape of Storms by a Portuguese sailor
who named it because of the rough seas and the
wild weather and the treacherous sailing. And you see where
(15:30):
I'm going with this?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Yes, the storm is.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Yes, and there's also a storm of brewing this weekend. Ah,
there you go.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
That's good stuff. What sort of a backlash are you
expecting from the box?
Speaker 2 (15:45):
I am expecting one. But it's hard to quantify a backlash.
I don't think we'll get what we saw in Wellington
last year, where they tore the All Blacks, To shreds.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
It was a very different team.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Very different team. There were a lot more changes made
by Rusty Rasmus that week. Similarly, he lost on the Saturday,
named his team on the Monday like he did this week.
But I suspect they'll just play a little bit smarter
potentially this week, South Africa, than what they did at
Alice Park. And what I mean by that is rather
(16:19):
than scrum, penalty, scrum again, it might be scrum, penalty,
take the shot at goal, go back again.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Snap a few drop goals.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Snap a few drop goals, points, pressure, scoreboard pressure. They
weren't able to build it against the All Blacks. Yeah,
that score, the All Blacks sort of scored against the
run of play once, twice in the first spell. And
when the ascendancy got on, they weren't able to capitalise
with points. So if the Springboks are able to get
the scrum ascendancy again, and the All Blacks will certainly
be hoping that is not the case, I would suspect
(16:50):
that they'll be taking shots at goal. We know how
good Pollard is. As a goal kicker, he can take
them from 60 metres out, even not at altitude. He's
that kind of goal kicker. So I think they'll be smarter.
But I think the All Blacks, in a funny way,
will also be better. And they have to be, because
if they play like they did in Johannesburg, they're not
(17:11):
going to beat the Springboks two weeks in a row
like that. So do I expect a backlash? No, I
expect the Springboks to play smarter. than they did at
Alice Park, but I also expect the All Blacks to
be better too. Would probably sum it up for me. Yeah,
that's a good summation. I think there's no surprises, again,
with the boxers. You look at that team, you know
exactly what you're going to get. They will come in
(17:34):
the set piece. They're going to hoist to the heavens
with Pollard.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
They're going to hope that Sir Khaleesi brings a bit
of an inspirational presence. They had a lot of dominance,
so they're just going to try and double down on that.
Where the All Blacks, as you say, got the last
quarter right, but there's many aspects of that game they
didn't get right. They conceded 14 penalties. Their high ball
(17:59):
work was scratchy, as we've touched on. The scrum was
under massive pressure, the starting front row. And just on that,
it was interesting today to hear Dave Rennie make some
pretty pointed comments that he'd spoken to World Rugby and
that he has raised concerns, probably through the clips that
they can send in to the officials as well, about
(18:21):
the Springboks illegally walking the scrum around, and if that's
policed properly, then he's confident that the All Blacks scrum
will be much better.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Is that mind games?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
I think it's definitely mind games from Dave Rennie. I
think it was your question. The last question of the
media conference, it felt like, Dave, I think you asked
about ball and play, and all of a sudden we're
talking about scrums. And I get there is a link
between the two, but I felt like he wanted to
squeeze that in before the time was up. Well, I
think with the All Blacks, they need to get that
ball in play up from, I think it was 28 minutes,
(18:51):
up into, even if they can add.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
I think in July it was 41, 43.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
One of those games, I think the game under the roof,
it was Virgil on 41. If they can get that
to even 35, then they play the way they want.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
They can bring fatigue into the game. They can use
the width. They can tire the box forwards out.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
And that's not to say they will win the game,
but it's the way that they see the path to victory.
The box might be able to hang with them for
35 minutes ball and play. I'm not saying that's the
dead set. That's the way to win. But the All
Blacks will feel more comfortable if the ball is in
play for longer periods of the game. And we saw
a lot of scrum resets. We saw a lot of
scrum penalties. So they weren't able to bring fatigue into
the game. They didn't even need to use their bench,
a lot of the bench, until quite late in the
(19:31):
game because even their own players weren't fatigued. So that
would be one step there. But to back to your
original point around scrums, look, they would have sent the
Clips in They would hope that the pictures that they're
presenting to Angus Gardner, and we'll mention that in a moment,
but the pictures they're presenting are better than the ones
(19:51):
they showed last week to Matthew Carley. And I do
think there is a tendency, and this isn't a criticism
of Matthew's, Carley or any of the referees, but there
is a tendency to view a powerful scrum as therefore
an illegal scrum on the other side.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
There's a lot more technicalities there.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Yeah, and I get why, and I see why in
world rugby, but I think there is certainly a case
where just because they've gone to the floor doesn't mean
necessarily they were scrumming illegally.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Yeah, I think this is a massive test for George Bauer.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Oh, totally.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
There's a big difference between coming off the bench, and
I think Asafa Amor's role in stabilising that scrum has
been massively downplayed as well, alongside Fletcher Newell. So, huge
test for George Bauer, and that scrum platform, you would think,
is going to be very defining. When I look also
(20:47):
at what the All Blacks did well, I thought defensively
they were very.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Aggressive in targeting the ball.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
They stripped the ball and that surprised the box. Defensively
they filled the field, often 14, 15 men in the line,
so they suffocated the box decision makers. And on attack
they worked the short side a lot, switch, and that
isolates the big box forward. So I think that worked
well for them. That allows them to use the width.
One area we haven't touched on they definitely need to
(21:15):
improve is their ball carrying. They had 101 less post
contact metres and it was very evident early on that
they were struggling to get headway and only on the
edges really did they make grounds and they were often
running into two big box forwards. Rene said today they've
got a bit of a plan around that, they're not
going to reveal it but that's one area and we
(21:36):
have touched on it in terms of the notable ball
carriers in the All Blacks pack. And I do think
they're still lacking a couple there.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah, I look at that and go, well, Simon Parker's
not going to solve that problem, especially if he's playing
in the middle as more of a lock six rather
than a six lock. And Tupo Vai on the edge
can obviously play very well. But I think they're going
to need more out of Adi Saviga this week. He
probably didn't get the go forward and the leg drive
going as much as he would have liked. Last week,
(22:03):
I think they need to maybe... I.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
Was just going to say, it also comes back to
the speed of your ruck. If you can generate that
quick speed, if you get that go forward, it's a cycle,
isn't it? If the box stop you in your tracks,
they slow your ball, their defence is allowed to reset,
it's pretty challenging to just... It's impossible to steamroll. They're
such big humans.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Yeah, so the All Blacks are going to have to
find a way around that because the post-contact metres were very,
very low last week and maybe... I'm intrigued to see
what Dave Rooney's got up his sleeve in terms of
being able to try and counter that this week. That
will be fascinating in and of itself. And, yeah, it
(22:47):
goes back to that ball in play. If they can
bring fatigue in earlier into the game, then you open
the door to utilising some of those bench players who
can get the post-contact metres, albeit late in the game,
like Lakai and Omuwa, other players like that.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Yeah, and one other aspect, I think, A bit of
rain about, maybe. The forecast is improving.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
It was 60%, beautiful now, but it was 60% chance
of rain. I think it's now about 20% so probably
get a little bit of rain. The Obelix kicked once
more than the Springboks last week and I think that
is another really intriguing area. Cam Roygard was hugely influential
in his box kicking but I think if you can
(23:29):
use little chips to get him behind that box rush defence,
We saw Quinta Pyre and Geordie Barrett use their boot well.
So that kicking duel will be pretty pivotal as well.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
It will be indeed. Sir Khaleesi back for the Springboks.
Wearing the number six jersey. Obviously that's the open side
flank on South African terms. Look, he's a talismanic leader,
isn't he? He boosts that team big time. And, you know,
I guess coming in 1-0 down in the series, no
better time to reintroduced Sir Khaleesi into the mix. Originally,
(24:05):
Rassi had bracketed him, but he's good to go, which
is positive for the South Africans.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Yeah, and really leaning on that experience, the most experienced
Springbok team in history, possibly, probably one of the oldest
in history as well. You've got 39-year-old Dion Fourie on
the bench. I think this is a stronger box team.
They've significantly bolstered that bench after the box squad, the
bomb squad, failed to detonate because of some of those injuries.
(24:32):
But Khaleesi, yeah, it's intangible, isn't it, with him? He's
such a figurehead, he is inspirational, and it's almost, it's
not not about what he does on the field, but
there's few, I think, leaders like him that can have
that sort of impact on a team.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
A transformational leader for the country, for South Africa, and
what he's been able to do, and you're right, it's
an intangible that they bring to that forward pack, and Yeah,
I do like the box bench this time. I think
Hanekom is an excellent player. He'll create trouble for the
All Blacks. And, you know, Sasha running it, you know,
(25:10):
tired All Blacks leagues potentially later in the game. They
talk about wanting to bring fatigue into it from an
All Blacks perspective, but, you know, he's got that footwork
that could be dangerous later on in the game.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to see Pollard play 80
and Sasha maybe come on.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
He can play 12.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
Maybe they bring him on for Willemsen at fullback and
So I wouldn't be surprised. I think Pollard, just his goal-kicking, Russ,
he wants him there, doesn't he, his calm experience. So
interesting to see how he uses that bench. Thomas Dutoy
is a noted scrummager. So I think that bench is
significantly stronger.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Indeed. Like Change the Roof Ring as well.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Slight quirk, isn't it? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Nika Amashakeli out with illness.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
Yeah, he might have got struck down at Kefka Priest
and Camps Bay.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Look, there were eyebrows raised given we saw him out
for a.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Watching sunset?
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Watching the sunset last night. It was a beautiful sunset.
We went up to Table Mountain, as we said, and
then went to Camps Bay for a... spot of dinner
and saw Nika and Carl Dixon out for, I don't
know if it was dinner or a drink.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Romantic evening.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
Got some bad seafood. Look, I can speak from experience, Elliot.
Sickness in Cape Town is no joke.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
You were ruled out from the first test with that.
So maybe you've been struck down by something. But Angus
Gardner comes in. He was going to referee the third game.
Now Nika Amashikele will referee the third game instead in Soweto.
Next week, not a major change. I don't think when
Dave Rennie was quick to play at Darwin, I asked
him about that today at the media conference. But it
(26:43):
is a little bit of a sidebar to the week's events,
isn't it?
Speaker 3 (26:47):
It is. Yeah, we're suggestions at the box. We're suggesting
they should have a South African referee. I think that was.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yako Piper, one of their coaches, he could have come
out of retirement.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
I don't think that was ever going to fly.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
No.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
Look, the box aren't going to be happy about that.
They probably haven't played a lot... Under Angus Gardiner, certainly
the All Blacks players will be a lot more familiar
with his style of refereeing. He refs in Super Rugby
a lot. His tendency is probably to let the game
flow a lot more. He'd be used to the pace
and the speed and tempo. I'm not saying he's going
(27:19):
to favour the All Blacks, but I think they are
more familiar with him.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Well, Angus Gardiner's come over and refereed MPC at points.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
And Arma Shelly is a bit of a lottery.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Can be, absolutely. I think it's something that World Rugby
should look at, by the way, is.
You know, sort of a quasi-exchange program where Carl Dixon,
Matthew Carley, Nikama Shikali come down and do, you know,
a couple of rounds of super rugby. I know they've
got Six Nations commitments and various other things, but they'd
come up and do a couple of rounds of super rugby.
Angus Gardner, Ben O'Keefe, Nick Berry go up and do
(27:53):
a couple of games in the premiership or the URC.
I think it'd be beneficial for all rugby teams and
for the referees as well. Yeah, a bit of a
financial cost, but I think overall it would help shape
the world game.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
A bit better. Yeah, I like it. C-Level's having a
good impact on you.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Bit of a brainwave.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We had asked you for your prediction
last week. I went the All Blacks by three last week.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
You did.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
And you went South Africa by three. Is that right?
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Vibes got you there.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Vibes got me good there, yeah. Bombing by three and
they won by 17.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
Well, I feel like I should tip the box again
because it worked last week.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
I do like just the temperament and the, I don't know,
vibes or whatever you want to call it, emanating from
the All Blacks. I think Rene never gets too high,
never gets too low, never seems flustered. And I think
that filters down to his team. And they're making all
the right noises about enjoying the euphoria of that win
(28:51):
and then coming straight back down to earth. really dismissed
anything to do with the World Rugby rankings. He didn't
even understand them, didn't care about them. Even dismissed the
fact of any talk about the series. There's a number
of games to go. So I think they're in a
great headspace. I think they could and maybe should win.
(29:15):
But I am going to tip the box just for superstition.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
I won the All Blacks by three last week. I'm
going to go the All Blacks by four this week.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
There you go. I like it. There is a bit
of anomaly.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
I haven't looked into the record yet, but from memory,
I don't think they have a great record in Cape Town,
which is interesting given the historical support element here.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah, they haven't played here a lot either in the
recent times because of this.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Lost their last test here.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah, lost here in 24, and then that was their
first game at DHL. Obviously played the Stormers at the
start of this tour, and then their previous game was
at Newlands, and I can't quite remember when, but yeah,
you're right, the record isn't the best for a traditional support,
which is continuing to move, although we had a waiter
last night at our restaurant in Camps Bay, who was
an ardent All Black supporter, big fan of Jonah Lomu,
(30:00):
and some of the other greats through the years, so it's,
and yeah, asked him why, and you know, said it's Family. Family,
it's history.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Generational.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yep, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Those tours are a dime a dozen here, aren't they?
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yeah, you speak to someone about BG Williams.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
You see the fans waiting outside the hotel.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Yep. They absolutely froth it. So, SG Week, we froth it.
That'll do us, though, for Rugby Direct. Live commentary, of course,
on Sunday morning, 3am on Newstalk ZB. All the analysis
on NZ Herald.. co. nz with NAPES as well. We'll see
you next time on Rugby Direct. Thanks to Mark Kelly.
We're powered by Forklift Solutions, lifting you and your business
to a higher level.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
For more from Newstalk ZB, listen live, on air or
online and keep our shows with you wherever you go
with our podcasts on iHeart Radio.
You're listening to a podcast from Newstalk ZB. Follow this
and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. Get
inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct with
(00:33):
Elliot Smith and Liam Napier. Powered by Newstalk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Forklift Solutions. Lifting you
and your business to a higher level. Elliot Smith with me.
Liam Napier. Test team locked in for the second test
of Rugby's greatest rivalry. All Blacks leading the series 1-0
of course. Liam, we last convened on Sunday our time.
(00:59):
Good to see you again. Now move to Cape Town,
back to sea level. Are you enjoying that?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Loving it, yes.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
One of the great cities of the world, Cape Town. Picturesque, captivating, quite.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Stunning, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
That's just me.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Yeah, what more can a man want to sit across
the table from you? It's been a long tour. You're
looking bloody good, actually.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
We had the All Blacks play the Lions in Johannesburg.
A little bit of an afterthought, really. That game, I
guess the All Blacks win it, but I don't know
what it means, if anything, in the context of the
wider tour. What did you take out of it?
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Look, it's valuable, I think.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
The whole tour is on the whole to bring 44,
45 players away and to keep them engaged the whole time,
to be able to give them game time. So that's
a positive, to get looks at different players, give guys
like Tava Tavanawa around the midfield, Have a look at
Semisitai Loa and the Highlanders prop, Ma'u, off the bench.
(02:06):
I was really impressed by him. And a very special occasion.
He was very emotional, wasn't he, in the post-match. So, look,
some positives. But it did feel like one game too
many on this tour. You played the first test.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
You're juggling everything.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Another game in the midst of the second test week.
It was a team that barely trained together and it
was very evident. Despite having quite a lot of experience
in that team, it was very scrappy. Look, credit to
the Lions, came to play. They were by far the
most enterprising, entertaining of the South African teams. Actually won
me over, came out to one of the Lion King songs.
(02:43):
And it was a great atmosphere for a very small crowd.
But yeah, the All Blacks' performance, I think... left a
lot to be desired, and wild guys like Rico Awani,
Ethan Blackadder, and Amoni Narawa impressed. They were never going
to be included for this second test, having all, I think,
(03:04):
played 80 minutes on a Tuesday before a Saturday game.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, it was never going to have a material impact.
It may do for the third test and fourth test,
but it was always hard to see a player that
went 80 minutes on the Tuesday night, backing up and
playing Saturday afternoon here, just unrealistic, I think. But look,
the All Blacks take the win. It was not very pretty,
but they managed to rally from 18 points down. Young-ish
(03:27):
All Blacks team had to learn a few lessons, but
ultimately probably glad, I think, as a whole that the
midweek games are now done. We can focus on the
remaining three tests in the series. It's going to be
locked in. Focus on that. Don't have to worry about
any more midweekers. I think ultimately that's a good thing.
And look, we talked a little bit last week around
(03:49):
the future shape of the series. They'll probably go back
and tweak it. They modelled this one very much on
a Lions series style. You play a whole lot of
tour games before the first test, and then you play
one more after it. But I think the difference with
the Lions is that you're bringing players from four different
teams together into one. You have to get combinations right.
(04:12):
You have to get things sorted. And in the modern-day
professional system for the All Blacks, I think it doesn't
quite mirror what the Lions look to get out of
those midweekers.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Yeah, well, SARU president Mike Alexander has already come out
and said these franchise games haven't worked, and there's a
number of contributing factors for that. I think the games
leading into the Test Series can provide value. Probably, you know,
they're such special occasions for emerging players, veteran players who
(04:46):
haven't played or maybe never will on the Test scene.
The Lions certainly rose to the occasion, and they're valuable
for the All Blacks to bring over a wider squad.
But I think if they had a choice next time around,
that'd been that last game. It just felt like a
bit much, a bit unnecessary when you're trying to prepare
for a massive second test.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah, and it will be a massive second test on
Saturday afternoon. We'll get into that in a moment. Some
other news out of the All Blacks camp. Anton Signer,
his tour is over. Unfortunately for him, we suspected this
would be the case Back on Sunday, he's had whole surgery.
The good news, potentially, is that he should be back
for the Bledisloe series in October. So a positive there
(05:28):
for Anton Cegna, but look, an opportunity missed, and who
knows how they would have configured the side had he
been fit for this week. All sorts of sliding doors
moments and that sort of thing, but shame that his
tour has come to an end.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yeah, absolutely. He was in great form.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
And really feel for him, having been on the cusp
of playing the box at Ells Park and having that
ripped away from him. But as you say, maybe a
best-case scenario in terms of what we originally thought it
might be, arthritis, all sorts of permutations around how that
might look, but the fact it was more an infection
by the sounds and it's been cleaned out and he's
(06:05):
expected to make a full recovery. Saw him boosting round
on one of those How would you describe that contraption
with the leg up and the wheels?
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Yeah, sort of like a mini moped sort of thing, yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Mini scooter around the team hotel while they were playing
a bit of BYC out in the courtyards. Look, the
All Blacks seem in great spirits generally, don't they? And
even Anton Cegner, you know, while he's disappointed, he'll be back.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
He will be, absolutely, and it's a good thing for
Simon Parker who gets the opportunity. Let's get into the
team that has been named for Saturday afternoon's test, 5pm
local time, 3am in New Zealand. no real surprises apart
from the big one in the back line, which is
the only unforced change that Dave Rennie's made to his 23,
which is Leroy Carter in for Josh Morby, and Dave
(06:52):
Rennie explaining that's purely a defensive decision, or largely a
defensive decision, backing Leroy Carter's defence over Josh Morby, but
said the call was tight as it was the previous week,
so a little bit of a surprise that Leroy Carter's
won that race.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Yeah, I think it is a surprise.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Look, Josh Morby missed the tackle on Esterhazen, just pure one-on-one,
bumped off. That was his Springboks-only try, so maybe he's
paid the price for that one moment. He did respond
and take that juggling Tupu Vai offload to score, and
he's had some moments. I think Lee Ricarda is better defensively.
(07:29):
We saw that at Eden Park last September, came off
his wing, put in some massive hits, punches above his weight,
talked about how that stems from the seven scene where
you're covering a lot of ground. I'm not sure Lee
Rokata is going to solve the All Blacks issues under
the high ball, but I guess we'll find out.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
We will indeed. Look, I asked him, I asked him,
how do you solve or handle the high ball? And
he just says, just try to catch it, which I
suppose is true. But it seems to be a real
Achilles heel for the All Blacks. Whoever they put on
the wing seems to be battling with the whole grasp
of actually being able to do so.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
Yeah, it's pretty hard to navigate, isn't it? It is
a strength for the box, not just their penchant for
going to the air, but their wingers, their loose forwards,
their locks, all contestable very well. They love to make
it scrappy, and it's an ongoing vulnerability for the All Blacks.
They have improved with the technique of running back and
(08:28):
catching the ball, but they weren't great at Alice Park
in that area. And I do wonder if a guy
like Amoni Narawa, I know it's only a small sample size,
but he really does feel like a guy in terms
of his size and skill set that could rapidly come
through the ranks there.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah, maybe. I'm not convinced about Narawa under the high
ball either, but no one else is convincing. So I
would like to see him get another opportunity in the
All Blacks. Last test match he played was At Eden
Park last year, scored a wonderful try off a Bowdoin
Mount Crossfield kick and then got himself injured in the
act of scoring. I think he's still got plenty more
to give at test level. I think the jury is
(09:09):
firmly out on Finneanga Norfolk and whether he is a.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
Seems quite brittle, almost gets injured every time he plays.
He looked like he limped off at Alice Park 45
minutes into that game.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, I think there's some question marks, and it'll be
fascinating to see, and this is, you know, we've got
three tests against it, I forget to get through first,
and a bled is low, but what Dave Rennie does
for the end of year tour, and, you know, Lester Fying,
a nook who might be back, or should be back
by then.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
He's a pretty valuable asset to have on the bench
to cover. Certainly, the All Blacks view him as a wing,
who can maybe pitch in the loose forwards, so a
squeeze is coming.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
The squeeze is coming. Kyron Tamuifala is playing really well
for Tasman. He is eligible, I think, around October.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Caleb Clarke probably done for the year?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
I think so, but I haven't heard the full extent
of that. So, yeah, the squeeze is coming, and it's
time for players to put their hands up, and a
big opportunity for Leroy Carter this week. The other changes
uh fairly well telegraphed from Dave Rennie um I guess
there was a bit of um consternation I suppose is
the word whether they would go with uh Parker on
(10:15):
the blind side or with their retained Tupo Vaidya and
put Tui Piloto uh in the second row we knew
it was going to be Tui Piloto in the 23
given how early he was hooked from the winner over
the Lions but they've gone with Parker on the blind
side massive test for Simon Parker coming on Saturday afternoon
isn't it?
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Absolutely and look he's made massive strides certainly in the
All Blacks eyes from July where he was well down
the rung didn't feature at all he started up blind
side against the Stormers and the Bulls the All Blacks
were really impressed by what he did against the Bulls
and They rate his profile, don't they? His size, his
(10:58):
ability to defend the mall, to bring a bit of
height to the lineouts, to do the dirty work around
the rucks. And it was interesting to hear Dave Rennie
talk today that they're still going to try and use
Tupu Vai on the edges where he was really effective
early on, in particular against the box, and to get
Parker in the middle of the park. So Parker's effectively
(11:19):
playing around the field like a lock potentially, and Tupu
Vai is playing loose forward, so it's only in the scrums.
And it does make sense because Tupu Vai was a
big part of shoring up that scrum, switching from blindside
to lock. And then I think when Tui Palautu comes on,
maybe Vai will go to the blindside as well.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yeah, could well be what they do there. Parker's going
to have to step up. He has had opportunities previously
and failed to probably convince, but this is a big opportunity.
as I say, Anton Signer's out injured I think back
to a couple of years ago here in South Africa
where they brought in Wallace Atiti at Blindside Flanker for
(12:01):
the Cape Town Test and that really set off the
path of Wallace Atiti becoming at that stage a first
choice All Black for the rest of that season. He's
now fallen away a little bit but Parker's got a
big opportunity to stamp his mark on this Test series
and an All Blacks jersey I think on Saturday afternoon
so We'll see how he goes.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Yeah, massive opportunity for him, particularly in an area that's stacked,
isn't it? I just want to raise something here. A
bit of an undercurrent suggestions maybe of an inherent or
subconscious chief spice among the All Blacks selectors. We've seen
Bradley Slater called in at hooker. I don't know if
(12:43):
it's prevalent.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
They could have called in East Feather Blues. Brodie McAllister
was a Chiefs option.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Yes, but.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
OK, that's more of a Taranaki connection, isn't it, with
Neil Barnes? You all right? I think in terms of
contestable selections, you could look at guys like Simon Parker,
Lee Ricarda, and maybe Anton Leonard-Brown and say Chiefs guys
have potentially been favoured. Look, Scott Robertson, when he got
the job, massive scrutiny on whether he was going to
(13:12):
favour the Crusaders. I don't think he did that. Overlook
guys like Havillee. Dave Rennie doesn't necessarily have a lot
of personal connections with players from the Chiefs. Maybe Dave Rennie, sorry,
Damien McKenzie and a couple of others.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah, I think he said he coached Luke Jacobson when
he was quite young.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
Yeah, and look, I'll be the first to admit, I
didn't think Luke Jacobson was the right selection and he
has absolutely taken that chance and.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Run with it.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Do you feel like there's any credence to that at
this point?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
I don't think so. Look, I think Yeah, people will
argue that the Hurricanes finished and won the title this year,
but it doesn't feel like there's an inherent Chiefs bias
to that point. I think what we're probably seeing is
some Chiefs players that we're probably seeing the best out
of at test level that maybe we hadn't previously, and
Luke Jacobson would be number one in that regard. So
(14:06):
I think Dave Rennie's come in and gone, maybe this
guy hasn't been used as well as he could have
been previously, hadn't been given the right job, for want
of a better more encompassing term in a in a
test match team um and now they're finding ways that
they can utilize it so i don't think so um
you know you can always talk to your own biases
(14:28):
but i don't see it there at the moment um
but there's always room for that to grow over time
and play and coaches always have their own you know
favorite players and not actually blind spots but they have
players that they believe they can get the best out of.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Yeah, their tendencies. It's interesting to see how it evolves.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
I think this game's, I think it's probably too soon
to make that sort of judgment, but there is certainly
guys like Rico and Naraway, who's another chief, to be fair,
and Blackadder, maybe. That was one performance against a Lions team,
so there's a bit of context there. But yeah, interesting
to see how things evolve. Look, we're in Cape Town.
(15:08):
We went up Table Mountain yesterday. Stunning views, nice to
take in some of the city. It's got a few nicknames,
the Mother City, and the Cape of Good Hope was
originally named the Cape of Storms by a Portuguese sailor
who named it because of the rough seas and the
wild weather and the treacherous sailing. And you see where
(15:30):
I'm going with this?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Yes, the storm is.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Yes, and there's also a storm of brewing this weekend. Ah,
there you go.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
That's good stuff. What sort of a backlash are you
expecting from the box?
Speaker 2 (15:45):
I am expecting one. But it's hard to quantify a backlash.
I don't think we'll get what we saw in Wellington
last year, where they tore the All Blacks, To shreds.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
It was a very different team.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Very different team. There were a lot more changes made
by Rusty Rasmus that week. Similarly, he lost on the Saturday,
named his team on the Monday like he did this week.
But I suspect they'll just play a little bit smarter
potentially this week, South Africa, than what they did at
Alice Park. And what I mean by that is rather
(16:19):
than scrum, penalty, scrum again, it might be scrum, penalty,
take the shot at goal, go back again.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Snap a few drop goals.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Snap a few drop goals, points, pressure, scoreboard pressure. They
weren't able to build it against the All Blacks. Yeah,
that score, the All Blacks sort of scored against the
run of play once, twice in the first spell. And
when the ascendancy got on, they weren't able to capitalise
with points. So if the Springboks are able to get
the scrum ascendancy again, and the All Blacks will certainly
be hoping that is not the case, I would suspect
(16:50):
that they'll be taking shots at goal. We know how
good Pollard is. As a goal kicker, he can take
them from 60 metres out, even not at altitude. He's
that kind of goal kicker. So I think they'll be smarter.
But I think the All Blacks, in a funny way,
will also be better. And they have to be, because
if they play like they did in Johannesburg, they're not
(17:11):
going to beat the Springboks two weeks in a row
like that. So do I expect a backlash? No, I
expect the Springboks to play smarter. than they did at
Alice Park, but I also expect the All Blacks to
be better too. Would probably sum it up for me. Yeah,
that's a good summation. I think there's no surprises, again,
with the boxers. You look at that team, you know
exactly what you're going to get. They will come in
(17:34):
the set piece. They're going to hoist to the heavens
with Pollard.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
They're going to hope that Sir Khaleesi brings a bit
of an inspirational presence. They had a lot of dominance,
so they're just going to try and double down on that.
Where the All Blacks, as you say, got the last
quarter right, but there's many aspects of that game they
didn't get right. They conceded 14 penalties. Their high ball
(17:59):
work was scratchy, as we've touched on. The scrum was
under massive pressure, the starting front row. And just on that,
it was interesting today to hear Dave Rennie make some
pretty pointed comments that he'd spoken to World Rugby and
that he has raised concerns, probably through the clips that
they can send in to the officials as well, about
(18:21):
the Springboks illegally walking the scrum around, and if that's
policed properly, then he's confident that the All Blacks scrum
will be much better.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Is that mind games?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
I think it's definitely mind games from Dave Rennie. I
think it was your question. The last question of the
media conference, it felt like, Dave, I think you asked
about ball and play, and all of a sudden we're
talking about scrums. And I get there is a link
between the two, but I felt like he wanted to
squeeze that in before the time was up. Well, I
think with the All Blacks, they need to get that
ball in play up from, I think it was 28 minutes,
(18:51):
up into, even if they can add.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
I think in July it was 41, 43.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
One of those games, I think the game under the roof,
it was Virgil on 41. If they can get that
to even 35, then they play the way they want.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
They can bring fatigue into the game. They can use
the width. They can tire the box forwards out.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
And that's not to say they will win the game,
but it's the way that they see the path to victory.
The box might be able to hang with them for
35 minutes ball and play. I'm not saying that's the
dead set. That's the way to win. But the All
Blacks will feel more comfortable if the ball is in
play for longer periods of the game. And we saw
a lot of scrum resets. We saw a lot of
scrum penalties. So they weren't able to bring fatigue into
the game. They didn't even need to use their bench,
a lot of the bench, until quite late in the
(19:31):
game because even their own players weren't fatigued. So that
would be one step there. But to back to your
original point around scrums, look, they would have sent the
Clips in They would hope that the pictures that they're
presenting to Angus Gardner, and we'll mention that in a moment,
but the pictures they're presenting are better than the ones
(19:51):
they showed last week to Matthew Carley. And I do
think there is a tendency, and this isn't a criticism
of Matthew's, Carley or any of the referees, but there
is a tendency to view a powerful scrum as therefore
an illegal scrum on the other side.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
There's a lot more technicalities there.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Yeah, and I get why, and I see why in
world rugby, but I think there is certainly a case
where just because they've gone to the floor doesn't mean
necessarily they were scrumming illegally.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Yeah, I think this is a massive test for George Bauer.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Oh, totally.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
There's a big difference between coming off the bench, and
I think Asafa Amor's role in stabilising that scrum has
been massively downplayed as well, alongside Fletcher Newell. So, huge
test for George Bauer, and that scrum platform, you would think,
is going to be very defining. When I look also
(20:47):
at what the All Blacks did well, I thought defensively
they were very.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Aggressive in targeting the ball.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
They stripped the ball and that surprised the box. Defensively
they filled the field, often 14, 15 men in the line,
so they suffocated the box decision makers. And on attack
they worked the short side a lot, switch, and that
isolates the big box forward. So I think that worked
well for them. That allows them to use the width.
One area we haven't touched on they definitely need to
(21:15):
improve is their ball carrying. They had 101 less post
contact metres and it was very evident early on that
they were struggling to get headway and only on the
edges really did they make grounds and they were often
running into two big box forwards. Rene said today they've
got a bit of a plan around that, they're not
going to reveal it but that's one area and we
(21:36):
have touched on it in terms of the notable ball
carriers in the All Blacks pack. And I do think
they're still lacking a couple there.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah, I look at that and go, well, Simon Parker's
not going to solve that problem, especially if he's playing
in the middle as more of a lock six rather
than a six lock. And Tupo Vai on the edge
can obviously play very well. But I think they're going
to need more out of Adi Saviga this week. He
probably didn't get the go forward and the leg drive
going as much as he would have liked. Last week,
(22:03):
I think they need to maybe... I.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
Was just going to say, it also comes back to
the speed of your ruck. If you can generate that
quick speed, if you get that go forward, it's a cycle,
isn't it? If the box stop you in your tracks,
they slow your ball, their defence is allowed to reset,
it's pretty challenging to just... It's impossible to steamroll. They're
such big humans.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Yeah, so the All Blacks are going to have to
find a way around that because the post-contact metres were very,
very low last week and maybe... I'm intrigued to see
what Dave Rooney's got up his sleeve in terms of
being able to try and counter that this week. That
will be fascinating in and of itself. And, yeah, it
(22:47):
goes back to that ball in play. If they can
bring fatigue in earlier into the game, then you open
the door to utilising some of those bench players who
can get the post-contact metres, albeit late in the game,
like Lakai and Omuwa, other players like that.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Yeah, and one other aspect, I think, A bit of
rain about, maybe. The forecast is improving.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
It was 60%, beautiful now, but it was 60% chance
of rain. I think it's now about 20% so probably
get a little bit of rain. The Obelix kicked once
more than the Springboks last week and I think that
is another really intriguing area. Cam Roygard was hugely influential
in his box kicking but I think if you can
(23:29):
use little chips to get him behind that box rush defence,
We saw Quinta Pyre and Geordie Barrett use their boot well.
So that kicking duel will be pretty pivotal as well.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
It will be indeed. Sir Khaleesi back for the Springboks.
Wearing the number six jersey. Obviously that's the open side
flank on South African terms. Look, he's a talismanic leader,
isn't he? He boosts that team big time. And, you know,
I guess coming in 1-0 down in the series, no
better time to reintroduced Sir Khaleesi into the mix. Originally,
(24:05):
Rassi had bracketed him, but he's good to go, which
is positive for the South Africans.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Yeah, and really leaning on that experience, the most experienced
Springbok team in history, possibly, probably one of the oldest
in history as well. You've got 39-year-old Dion Fourie on
the bench. I think this is a stronger box team.
They've significantly bolstered that bench after the box squad, the
bomb squad, failed to detonate because of some of those injuries.
(24:32):
But Khaleesi, yeah, it's intangible, isn't it, with him? He's
such a figurehead, he is inspirational, and it's almost, it's
not not about what he does on the field, but
there's few, I think, leaders like him that can have
that sort of impact on a team.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
A transformational leader for the country, for South Africa, and
what he's been able to do, and you're right, it's
an intangible that they bring to that forward pack, and Yeah,
I do like the box bench this time. I think
Hanekom is an excellent player. He'll create trouble for the
All Blacks. And, you know, Sasha running it, you know,
(25:10):
tired All Blacks leagues potentially later in the game. They
talk about wanting to bring fatigue into it from an
All Blacks perspective, but, you know, he's got that footwork
that could be dangerous later on in the game.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to see Pollard play 80
and Sasha maybe come on.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
He can play 12.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
Maybe they bring him on for Willemsen at fullback and
So I wouldn't be surprised. I think Pollard, just his goal-kicking, Russ,
he wants him there, doesn't he, his calm experience. So
interesting to see how he uses that bench. Thomas Dutoy
is a noted scrummager. So I think that bench is
significantly stronger.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Indeed. Like Change the Roof Ring as well.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Slight quirk, isn't it? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Nika Amashakeli out with illness.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
Yeah, he might have got struck down at Kefka Priest
and Camps Bay.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Look, there were eyebrows raised given we saw him out
for a.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Watching sunset?
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Watching the sunset last night. It was a beautiful sunset.
We went up to Table Mountain, as we said, and
then went to Camps Bay for a... spot of dinner
and saw Nika and Carl Dixon out for, I don't
know if it was dinner or a drink.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Romantic evening.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
Got some bad seafood. Look, I can speak from experience, Elliot.
Sickness in Cape Town is no joke.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
You were ruled out from the first test with that.
So maybe you've been struck down by something. But Angus
Gardner comes in. He was going to referee the third game.
Now Nika Amashikele will referee the third game instead in Soweto.
Next week, not a major change. I don't think when
Dave Rennie was quick to play at Darwin, I asked
him about that today at the media conference. But it
(26:43):
is a little bit of a sidebar to the week's events,
isn't it?
Speaker 3 (26:47):
It is. Yeah, we're suggestions at the box. We're suggesting
they should have a South African referee. I think that was.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yako Piper, one of their coaches, he could have come
out of retirement.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
I don't think that was ever going to fly.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
No.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
Look, the box aren't going to be happy about that.
They probably haven't played a lot... Under Angus Gardiner, certainly
the All Blacks players will be a lot more familiar
with his style of refereeing. He refs in Super Rugby
a lot. His tendency is probably to let the game
flow a lot more. He'd be used to the pace
and the speed and tempo. I'm not saying he's going
(27:19):
to favour the All Blacks, but I think they are
more familiar with him.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Well, Angus Gardiner's come over and refereed MPC at points.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
And Arma Shelly is a bit of a lottery.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Can be, absolutely. I think it's something that World Rugby
should look at, by the way, is.
You know, sort of a quasi-exchange program where Carl Dixon,
Matthew Carley, Nikama Shikali come down and do, you know,
a couple of rounds of super rugby. I know they've
got Six Nations commitments and various other things, but they'd
come up and do a couple of rounds of super rugby.
Angus Gardner, Ben O'Keefe, Nick Berry go up and do
(27:53):
a couple of games in the premiership or the URC.
I think it'd be beneficial for all rugby teams and
for the referees as well. Yeah, a bit of a
financial cost, but I think overall it would help shape
the world game.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
A bit better. Yeah, I like it. C-Level's having a
good impact on you.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Bit of a brainwave.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We had asked you for your prediction
last week. I went the All Blacks by three last week.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
You did.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
And you went South Africa by three. Is that right?
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Vibes got you there.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Vibes got me good there, yeah. Bombing by three and
they won by 17.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
Well, I feel like I should tip the box again
because it worked last week.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
I do like just the temperament and the, I don't know,
vibes or whatever you want to call it, emanating from
the All Blacks. I think Rene never gets too high,
never gets too low, never seems flustered. And I think
that filters down to his team. And they're making all
the right noises about enjoying the euphoria of that win
(28:51):
and then coming straight back down to earth. really dismissed
anything to do with the World Rugby rankings. He didn't
even understand them, didn't care about them. Even dismissed the
fact of any talk about the series. There's a number
of games to go. So I think they're in a
great headspace. I think they could and maybe should win.
(29:15):
But I am going to tip the box just for superstition.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
I won the All Blacks by three last week. I'm
going to go the All Blacks by four this week.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
There you go. I like it. There is a bit
of anomaly.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
I haven't looked into the record yet, but from memory,
I don't think they have a great record in Cape Town,
which is interesting given the historical support element here.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah, they haven't played here a lot either in the
recent times because of this.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Lost their last test here.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah, lost here in 24, and then that was their
first game at DHL. Obviously played the Stormers at the
start of this tour, and then their previous game was
at Newlands, and I can't quite remember when, but yeah,
you're right, the record isn't the best for a traditional support,
which is continuing to move, although we had a waiter
last night at our restaurant in Camps Bay, who was
an ardent All Black supporter, big fan of Jonah Lomu,
(30:00):
and some of the other greats through the years, so it's,
and yeah, asked him why, and you know, said it's Family. Family,
it's history.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Generational.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yep, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Those tours are a dime a dozen here, aren't they?
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yeah, you speak to someone about BG Williams.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
You see the fans waiting outside the hotel.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Yep. They absolutely froth it. So, SG Week, we froth it.
That'll do us, though, for Rugby Direct. Live commentary, of course,
on Sunday morning, 3am on Newstalk ZB. All the analysis
on NZ Herald.. co. nz with NAPES as well. We'll see
you next time on Rugby Direct. Thanks to Mark Kelly.
We're powered by Forklift Solutions, lifting you and your business
to a higher level.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
For more from Newstalk ZB, listen live, on air or
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