September 3, 2026 • 30 mins
On the latest episode of Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier join the podcast from Johannesburg as the All Blacks unveil a bold new look for the third test against South Africa.
With veteran hooker Cody Taylor omitted from the matchday 23, Sam Darry promoted into the second row in place of Fabian Holland, and Peter Lakai handed a starting berth at blindside flanker, the selectors have made some major calls.
Are they the right ones? What do the changes reveal about how the All Blacks want to play? And can this reshaped side respond after last week's loss to the Springboks?
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from Newstalk ZB. Follow this
and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Strike down the middle.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Drop it down and score. There's your bonus point. Try.
He's pumped. Try. Game over.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct
with Elliot Smith and Liam Napier. Powered by Newstalk ZB.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct, powered by Access Solutions, elevating you
and your business to a higher level. Rugby Direct, back
in Johannesburg for, I don't know how many times I've
been zigzagging around this beautiful country, but, Napes, good to
be in Johannesburg for the final leg of the South
African part of the series.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
It is, Elliot. It's been, what, a six-week expedition, and
this is the last leg in South Africa, at least,
and a big old week at that.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Has been. A lot of controversy and various other things
which we'll get into. Again, Liam, you've gone down with Ildis. Second,
third time this tour. What's gone wrong?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
She's been a rough ride, that's for sure. There's Barley Belly.
I've had Cape Town Belly twice. I'm blaming your famous,
favoured Vixie's restaurant.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Cape Town's quite good. Well, I think it's good. I've
come through unscathed.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
It's good for some.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Three times in this tour having gone there.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yes, it's been a rough couple of days. I haven't
ventured too far. So, yes, great country, great people, but
the food on this trip has not agreed with me.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Yeah, well, you've got an extra week here as well,
so good luck. Let's get into the All Blacks team
named for this third test. And, Liam, a fair few surprises,
I guess you could say. We thought that maybe the
Cody Taylor switch out of the 23 might happen, but
they've gone and done it. Obviously, Sam Derry comes in
as well. Pete Lakai into the run-on side. Those are
(02:09):
the big three changes in the pack. Your reaction to
that All Blacks team?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Big, brave, bold. Yeah, I like most of them. We
advocated it. I think everyone wanted Armour to get a crack.
how could you not after his performances off the bench,
just as ball carrying punch power, um, the way he
bends and breaks the line. And we've talked a lot
about the fact that the all blacks pack has lacked
(02:35):
that ball carrying punch. So he certainly brings that, um,
a wee bit of a surprise, perhaps that Taylor's not
involved at all, uh, with Samsoni Takiahoa coming onto the bench. Um,
but I think he will bring punch as well. Uh,
I'm a big Peter Lakai advocate. Um, I probably believe
he's an eight. His best position's eight or seven. And
(02:57):
there is a bit of a curiosity that his two
starts for the All Blacks this year have come at six.
His last one was the opening test of the year
against France. But he'll roam the edges. He'll bring real
ball carrying. He's dynamic. He can offload. He's got pace
and a step. I think the changes generally speak to
(03:17):
the All Blacks' desire to run the box off their
feet at altitude. Sam Darius being brought in, I think,
to try and shore up the line-out. I thought Josh
Lord might come back. Him and Ethan DeGroote weren't considered
because of concussion. Both passed the protocols, but they wanted
to give him another week. The concern I have with
Sam Darius perhaps is physicality, but I guess we're going
(03:40):
to find out this weekend where he's at.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Yeah, big test for him. First time he started against
South Africa, but I agree the blueprint is pretty clear
as to The way the All Blacks want to play,
they want to start stronger than they have in the
previous two Test matches so far in this series. Obviously,
it's got them to 1-1 at this point, but they
want to get in a better position by halftime than
they have been in the last couple.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Well, they've only scored first in one of Dave Rennie's
five Tests, the victory over Ireland at Eden Park.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Speaks to the All Blacks' issues. Last year, it was
the third quarter when they fell apart this season. time.
They're struggling to get into the game and so they're
going to have to figure out a way to do that.
I think Amua's selection is a smart one. I think, look,
obviously last week there were line-out issues. The All Blacks
line-out operated at 83%. There were issues when Taylor was throwing.
(04:32):
There were issues when Amua was throwing as well. So
it's a real issue for the All Blacks getting that right.
And when you've got Eben Etzebeth, Norkia, Peter Steftetoy getting up,
you're dealing with players that have got around 400 caps
worth of experience, maybe just slightly under that combined, they
(04:53):
know their way around the line-out. So the All Blacks
have got to find ways to be better. They say
today that they have looked at that this week, but
the pressure will be on more with the line-out because
it's been an area where we can run a little
hot and cold.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah, well, there's been so much focus on the scrum,
hasn't there, and so much chat. around the tactics and
the bickering. But it was the line-out, as you say,
that was a fundamental failure from the All Blacks last week.
It wasn't just the ones that the box snaffled. It
was the disruption that they caused throughout. Even the ones
(05:28):
the All Blacks did win, it was largely scrappy. And
what the box did well is they actually largely closed
off the back ball for the All Blacks. And so
they said... gamble and throw to the back, and we're
going to have our best line-out jumpers there, or you
can throw to the front. And what that does is
all rugby attack coaches will tell you that they want
(05:48):
to go to the back to launch set-piece platforms. So
very smart, technically, from the box, and they were very
effective with it. So like you say, the All Blacks
are talking about their adjustments. Maybe that's a few specials.
Maybe that's a bit of... Quick throws, front ball to
the props, getting set early, I'm not too sure, but
(06:09):
they do need to get it right.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
I think it's getting set early. They've talked a lot
about not wanting to waste time in matches, and this
isn't wasting time necessarily because the line-out is set ready
to go, but they seem to, whether it was getting
the calls last week, whatever it was, but I often
think just bang, bang, bang, getting it in and throwing
is the best way to go about it. It's easier
(06:33):
said than done, I know that, but it feels like
they're a little too ponderous, perhaps at line-out time last week,
so they need to find a way to try and
solve that. So I think on Moore's selection as well,
it actually is interesting to see how that goes with
the scrums, because I think his frame suits scrummaging against
a guy like Malcolm Marks, and we saw that with
(06:53):
that big scrum back in the first test, and the
way that he operated there as well. So I think
that's going to be interesting to see how that goes.
Another wee stat is that it is Dowery, Lakai and Oumuwa's,
all of theirs, sixth test start.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
So that's a nod to the, perhaps the lesser experienced players.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
At a big game like this.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Or it's one of the most experienced Springbok teams in history.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Yeah. I mean, Oumuwa's been around the All Blacks camp
on and off for nine, ten seasons now. Debut in 2017.
Darry's been around a couple of years. Lakai's been around
a couple of years. But in terms of starting games,
this is a big moment for all three of them.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, I was wondering where you were going with that.
But it's a very good point because Rennie's 10 years
in its infancy, right? But the series is locked at 1-1.
This is the biggest test match probably the All Blacks
have played since the Rugby World Cup. The only comparable
one would perhaps be defending Fortress Eden Park against the Box. But...
(07:57):
with everything on the line, Rene has turned to youth.
He's dropped a Test Centurion and brought in guys with
single digits of Test. So it's a massive vote of
confidence in youth and it's also rewarding form. And I
think he's done that with selections throughout this year. If
you play well, if you knock on the door hard enough,
(08:20):
you will be rewarded in most cases.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Yeah, absolutely. And I think with the selection for Derry,
I would love to see him bring a little bit
more physicality. I thought he carried well in the two
games he had in July, France, and Italy. He wasn't
required against Ireland, and he hasn't been seen in a
test match since. But I think he's a strong carrier
of the ball. I think the line-out probably operated his
(08:44):
best when he was on the park in July as well.
So I'm intrigued to see how he goes. And Laka...
I tend to agree with you, and the size factor
probably worries me a little bit in that loose forward trio.
Dave Rennie conceded today, obviously he's not the biggest player,
but believes that he can run both sides of the ball,
(09:08):
both attack and defence, and put the spring box in
some awkward areas. So, yeah, let's hope that they do so.
The back line, unchanged. Is that a surprise for you
at all?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
No, I didn't think they would change the back line.
I thought they may look at the bench options look
I think the attack is functioning pretty well isn't it
was it nine tries to four and really talked about
the cohesion the combinations and when they do get quick
hands and they do overload edges and and get space
(09:42):
they're working really well so I'm not too sure What
changes would you have made to that back line?
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Well, I can't see any. I mean, there's none that
I would make.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Lee Ricard was thrown in to start, and he was
one of the All Blacks' best.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Yeah, so I can't see an argument to make it.
I think they've got their 9 to 15, the best
players in each position as it stands currently.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah, the only issue, and it's a big one, is
the high ball.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
And that's a riddle the All Blacks cannot solve, not
for a change in coaching regime. It looked as though
they'd made some gains earlier this year, but coming up
against a team as proficient and effective as a box
with their kicking game and their aerial contesting, They've gone
backwards at a great rate of knots, haven't they? Leroy Carter,
(10:28):
I thought was good, has just catch it. He sort
of followed through at times, but it remains a massive
issue and the All Blacks know it's coming again.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Yeah. I don't know how you solve it quickly.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Neither do I.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
I don't know whether they need an AFL skills coach
or somewhere in that because it's an area we don't
see enough at Super Rugby level, then This is an
old argument, but when you get to test level, opposition
teams are going to kick at you and kick repeatedly,
and the All Blacks just aren't equipped to deal with it.
So whether it's a specialist coach, whether it's... I don't know,
but they need to find a way to get more
(11:06):
of that ball. I don't like the rule changes that
have been in for a couple of years. I think
it makes it a lottery, makes it a skittery type
of game. I don't think it's a great look for
the game. I'm not sure why World Rugby's done this,
but they have. And I think ideally you bring back
the escort, but it has turned it into a lottery
and the All Blacks have to deal with it.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Well, yeah, it promotes kicking because, as you say, it's
a 50-50 contest. So the team kicking the ball has
a great chance of getting it back. So why would
you not? So if you're receiving it, it's a lot
more difficult. So that's where the All Blacks are struggling.
Just going back a little bit with Sam Derry, one
of his good skills is– soft hands at the line.
(11:50):
And I think that, again, speaks to the All Blacks'
desire to play at pace, to run the box off
their feet. One point we haven't touched on is Fabian
Holland to the bench. So no Josh Lord, but Holland's
been one of the All Blacks' best. Were you surprised
by that at all?
Speaker 3 (12:04):
A little, but I do wonder whether they think, and look,
they're looking at the GPS numbers, whether they look and go,
maybe the tank's just not quite where it is. Remembering
he got injured in pre-season for the Highlanders. them playing
two test matches back-to-back. He also played 80 minutes against
the Bulls and 40 minutes earlier in the campaign against
(12:28):
the Storm. I'm trying to think how much he... He's
played a lot of rugby in a short space of
time for someone that hasn't played much rugby previously this
year to this point. So if they... I mean, ideally, hopefully,
touch wood, neither of the starting locks get injured, but
maybe he's got half an hour in him this week.
Maybe they decide to rest him entirely next week, depending
on the context of the series. I think he's been
(12:49):
one of the All Blacks best in those last two
test matches, but a little bit surprised, but I kind
of think it's the right horses for courses approach here.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah, I think he'll bring a lot of impact off
the bench and the All Blacks will need that. They've
won the last two quarters, so they're clearly targeting that again.
Just in terms of those figures you speak of, the
Box are running their veteran figures into the ground. We
think about their phenomenal depth. Well, they haven't really used
(13:20):
it in the series, so is that a risk? Are
they going to fatigue? Because it's the All Blacks that
are actually rotating more.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
It is, absolutely, and I don't think many would have
expected that prior to the series. We saw what Rusty
did last year between Auckland and Wellington, made mass changes.
Wouldn't surprise me if they do that for Baltimore, even
if they're 2-1 down, even if they have to win
to get the series.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
I think both teams will rotate big time.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Yeah, that travel factor is just going to be immense
for a lot of players, and they're all on the
same plane, but I think that you need fresh bodies
when you get to Baltimore. So that wouldn't surprise me
next week, but it has, yeah, it surprised me a
little that they haven't changed things up. I think Russie
or us has talked a couple of times about a
(14:02):
World Cup mentality and what they're looking for. And obviously
three quarterfinals, semifinals, finals games next year, also a round
of 16 too, but you're going to have to have
similar players. But I think, When you're facing the same
opposition three weeks in a row, you do have to
take a little bit of a horses-for-courses approach. So, you know,
they're not presenting... Look, maybe they'll come up with some
(14:24):
different tactics on the weekend. Maybe Tony Brown's going to
get off the leash this week. Don't know. But they're
not presenting different pictures to the All Blacks in terms
of the personnel they're putting on the park. So, for me,
I think that's a bonus for the All Blacks is
that they know the way that these Springboks players are
going to play. They haven't looked for a Hanekom. They
haven't looked for changing up the second row. It's only
(14:47):
been injury enforced. Yeah. They obviously did the prop thing
or the front row thing last week. But yeah, I'm
a little surprised that they've been so, not conservative, that's
the wrong word, but so stringent in just picking the
same players week to week.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Well, it's a real deviation from what we've seen consistently
from the box over the past year when they've won
those 12 tests in a row. Yeah it's very intriguing
and I guess the box are looking at it and
going well we improved drastically from test one to two.
We were far more efficient in our red zone conversion.
(15:24):
We didn't get the scrum dominance we want but we
made a mess of the All Blacks line outs and
our power game worked even if we faded late in
the game. So they're thinking that they can go step, step, step.
The All Blacks are looking at it going well we
haven't been at our best, we came back and blew
the box away in the second half of the first test.
(15:45):
We were inaccurate, didn't convert our chances, let them get
away in the second so we need to start better
and that's why I think they've injected some fresh legs.
But yeah it is surprising when you look at the complexion.
If you said at the start of the series who
was going to rotate more, it would certainly be the box.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Absolutely. Let's just touch on the All Blacks bench. You
mentioned earlier the around maybe Cody Taylor being surprised that
he hasn't gone to the bench and they've decided to
go Takeoho. I'm intrigued at this point in their career
whether Taylor can be an impact player. We saw Kevin
Miyalama do that very well in 2015 World Cup. He
(16:27):
came on and played the last 20 and they went
for an older head that way. I'm not saying this
is the end of Cody Taylor's starting career by any
stretch of the imagination, but Maybe this is the point
where they do have to consider, you know, is he
the out-and-out starter? If he doesn't start, is he a
bench player? Those are all sorts of conversations because not
every starter's a bench player.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
I think it's a real crossroads. It is for Cody.
He's been a stalwart of this team. He was next
in line to be captain if it wasn't Artie Sevier.
Rennie rates him highly as part of the leadership group.
But that just shows that nobody's position's safe. And... he'll
be nervous because a lot of it will depend on
how Amua goes this weekend. If he has a shocker
(17:11):
at the line-outs, then Taylor's stocks probably rise again and
you think, well, the All Blacks really need him. I
think he can be an asset off the bench in
terms of coming in and closing out a game, but
he's not your Amua, Takiahou, punch impact type bench player,
(17:36):
so it depends what you want. And I think an
Amua Takiahou one-two punch is pretty compelling.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Yeah, it is. Look, the caveat is getting that line-out right.
Because if you can't throw, that's your core job. If
you can't throw straight, you can't get the ball to
your jumpers, then your value diminishes, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
It does. And also, look, the line-out is not... cumbersome
on one player alone.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
And often the blame falls on the hooker when there's
so many moving parts in a line-out. But if there's
a common denominator consistently, then it's pretty hard tag to shake.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yeah, well, because there's so much on the hooker, even
if it's not their fault that the ball isn't going,
there's often not straight or whatever, or balking, whatever it
might be, all that responsibility falls on the hooker getting
their part right. So that's key.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Look, Armour is capable. I remember the test in Dublin,
I think. when the All Blacks won under Razor there
and he came in to start and that's his best
test performance, certainly starting.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
That was his last start?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
For the All Blacks and he nailed the line out
and Ireland rate themselves in that capacity, they're probably not
at the box level but he really stepped up so
he is capable and this is a prime chance for
him to show that.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
It is indeed. The rest of the bench, it was
interesting to hear Dave Rennie's explanation on why Anton Leonard-Brown
has been given the nod over, say, Rico Iwani or
other players that.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
The drums are really beating there.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Yeah, they are. And basically it comes down to work
ethic and defence. And credit to Dave Rooney, like, I
would have probably gone Rico Iwani, but he explained himself
pretty clearly as to why he was of that view.
And you can either take it or leave it. But basically,
it's down to work ethic, defence. It's agreed that Iwani
is the better X-factor player, but the overall package, they
(19:27):
prefer what Leonard-Brown brings.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
He explained himself very well, didn't he? And how refreshing
is it to have that honesty from a coach to
come out and say, look, yeah, Rico's a freak with
the ball in hands, but he can be exposed defensively.
And we saw that in his last game against the Lions.
Got stepped. It was a big break. And he got
two tries in that game. So you've got to be
(19:50):
able to do it on.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Both sides of the ball.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Look, I'm I probably wouldn't be selecting Leonard Brown I
understand the defensive perspective but I want your bench to
be coming on and delivering impact not I feel like
Leonard Brown's a safe bet and his trump card for
me was the fact he covered second and centre and
you don't need that now with Quinta Pye and Geordie
Barrett there you've got that cover so whether it's a
(20:13):
Rico Awani or someone else I think there's room for
someone to push for that and then a Josh Morby
I think we're in agreeance that I don't see him
as an out-and-out impact player either. Maybe he will prove
us wrong and come on this weekend and come off
the line and have a real impact. But I think
an Amoni Narawa, even a Fihi potentially, has that more
(20:37):
physical impact prototype to them.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Yeah, I agree. I think that's the kind of play
you want. Broken play late in the game. tied defences
to take on, you know, Josh Morby's got great footwork,
but I just think a bigger ball runner and a
powerful ball runner at that is something you need in
that closing stage. I mean, it's hard to argue because
the All Blacks have played their best rugby in the
(21:02):
latter part of both of these games. So quibbling with
the bench. Yeah, but Josh Morby wasn't used last week. Exactly. So, yeah,
I would have gone a little bit different this week.
Maybe a Fihi, maybe a, yeah, someone like that. that
is capable of being that X-factor sort of player.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Yeah, and I think they are missing Caleb Clarke because
just for a different dynamic in that back three, if
you look at Damian McKenzie, Will Jordan, Leroy Carter, they're
all small athletes. Will Jordan is very elusive, and to
look at the bloke, I still don't know how he
beats so many defenders and shakes them off. He's a
freak with ball in hand, but I think if you
(21:41):
had a Caleb Clarke per se, starting on the left
wing and then you bring on Leroy Carter. Leroy Carter's
not necessarily a big athlete, but he strikes me as
much more of an impact player than the Josh Morgan.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Yeah, I think we're still stuck in the era in
New Zealand of insurance policies on the bench and who
covers what position in worst-case scenarios, where really I think
you've got to forget about the worst-case scenario and think, OK,
ideal scenario, how do we close out the game from
minutes 55 to 80? What does our ideal blueprint look like?
How do we accelerate our game plan or continue to
(22:20):
bring our game plan to fruition through those closing 20,
25 minutes?
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, that's where Rico's value, I think, rises because he
has the centre and wing cover where Lennon Brown's card
has dropped in recent times. The only point I would
make there is that The box were burnt in Test
1 with their 6-2 Esterhazen hybrid role because they lost
(22:46):
a couple of outside backs and that really cost them.
So there is inherent risk in not having all your
bases covered, but I think Morby was a wasted player
on the bench last week.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Yeah, I would have been tempted to go 6-2 potentially
this week. Not sure whether Ethan Blackadder is entirely fit.
You reported that he was a bit under the weather.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
I.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Think it was something different, but there's been a few
All Blacks wearing masks. They've definitely had the flu through
their camp throughout this tour, and I don't know whether
that was a factor in his non-selection this week, but
we've had Luke Jacobson, Jason Ryan told us before last
week's game, Ethan DeGroote, I think Ethan Blackadder, so a
number of players have have been sick on this tour.
(23:31):
Not Susie Stowell like myself.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Yeah, no, no. Susie has resurrected herself and done a
number on you. Just on the bench finally, Fahingon Nuku
would probably be that ideal player to have on the bench,
whether that's in a 6-2 split or whatever it might be,
to come on and impact the game in the last 20,
25 minutes.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Absolutely. Yeah, he's the trump card that's yet to come back.
And that's the prototype, isn't it? Just a guy that
you can throw on with tiring bodies, smash through tackles,
break the advantage line, float across the field wherever he wants,
wherever you need him to be. He feels like a
dead cert once he's back fit and firing.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Yeah. Just before we wrap up, on the scrums, as
we've talked about, being a tit-for-tat this week, Rusty Erasmus
exploding at the Saturday media conference post-game. Did it again
on Monday, took issue. Dave Rennie today at the media
conference for the All Blacks, just dampening it down and
not really wanting to give it too much more airtime.
(24:33):
But this is all set up for, you know, we've
all had our say, the coaches have had their say,
but ultimately it's on Nika Amashikele on Saturday afternoon to
adjudicate whether the Springboks are walking around or whether the
All Blacks are seeing things that aren't there.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Yeah, it is. And Nika, he's... he takes a hard
line stance generally on most things, whether it's the breakdown
or scrum. So it's going to be very intriguing to
see his interpretations. I don't see him taking any shit,
but I feel like most things are a bit of
a lottery with him. I couldn't predict which way it's
(25:10):
going to go.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
I find it hard to follow at the best of times. Um,
he was the referee when the All Blacks lost to
the Springboks last year, 43-10 in the capital. Not the
refereeing at fault, but he oversaw that. Um, just to
point that out. So the All Blacks have to be
buttoned on for this one and make sure they're locked
into his interpretations of the game, aren't they?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
They are, yep. That's going to be intriguing. One final
stat for you. The All Blacks have won eight of
their last 10 games at altitude. That's Pretoria and Joburg.
So Soweto, Ellis Park, Pretoria. And I think, you know,
there's so much made of altitude, isn't there, coming here?
And you notice it when you're there walking up a
(25:53):
few stairs on a treadmill, whatever it might be. But
the style of rugby that the All Blacks want to
play now and traditionally throughout history as well, it suits them,
doesn't it?
Speaker 3 (26:05):
It does, absolutely, which is why I question the bench,
get her back to the bench, because I don't know
that that accelerates their game plan in the last 20,
25 minutes. Some players do. Yeah, but I'm not sure...
A Takeo... Yeah. Xavier Noumeir, Fabian Holland, Sissiti. The backs,
go back to the backs. I don't think that their
backs can drive home that advantage at altitude. You know,
(26:28):
Morby's a great stepper, and he's got a lot of pace.
So maybe jury's out there, because we haven't really seen
him off the bench. We didn't see him at all
last week.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
I think, to your point, it's an insurance policy. So
if Geordie Barrett-Quinterpie goes down in the 10th minute, Dave
really wants a guy that's going to make the tackles.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Yeah. Oh, totally. And he's the ideal person for that,
Leonard Brown.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Same for the back three, I think. Yeah. They're safe options,
aren't they?
Speaker 3 (26:53):
They are. They are indeed. One more thing to finish.
No flyover.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
No flyover. You're pretty hot on this.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Oh, just the fun police.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
You didn't shit your pants last week?
Speaker 3 (27:05):
No. I thought it was great. I was like, oh, jeez,
that's low. But it's a perception thing, isn't it? You
look and go, jeepers, is that coming? Oh, no, it's fine.
It's 12 metres. It's no problem at all. I thought
it was spectacular. I thought it was great. Really disappointed
that the fun police have had their say. And I
know the South African Civil Aviation Authority is having a
(27:26):
look and various other things. But it feels like people
have got up in arms in something that is now
a tradition and unfortunately won't happen this week.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yeah, look, it'll be a great shame if... We never
saw the flyover again. It was something that was iconic
for Alice Park in particular. I think, I don't know,
the last two times, three times that the All Blacks
have played there, it's very traditional.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
There's maybe an argument that it's been overdone because it
was that special Alice Park thing in 95 and they've
resurrected it a couple of times since and now it
was going to be at every game in the series.
Maybe there's an argument it's overdone. That's probably the argument
that you'd go with rather than, oh, yeah, we can't
have fun anymore.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, it certainly spooked a few people. It's made worldwide headlines,
hasn't it?
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Yeah, you look through your social media feed and it's
in the US, the UK. Finally, prediction-wise, I can't remember
what you predicted last week. I've gone box, box. Look,
I'm going to stick with the box, actually.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah. I just think if you told me at the
start of the series, and this is not a knock
on them, it's just that I think if you told
me at the start of the series that the Obelix
would field a team with George Bauer and Sam Derry
starting and a couple of others maybe, yeah, I would
(28:50):
have been pretty shocked. So it's intriguing how things have
played out. I just think the Bucs probably sneak it,
but I hope not.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Of course. I picked the All Blacks by three for
week one, four last week. I'm reverting back to the
All Blacks by two this week in Sweden. They haven't
lost this head-to-head in Sweden. I think the Boxer beat
an Argentina there from memory, although I'd have to check that.
But the All Blacks haven't lost there in two games.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, they broke John Schmidt's heart, their infamous in his
100th test in 2010.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
The He's Got Dag match, yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, amazing Ma Nonu break with the one boot. Perfect start.
long ball to Izzy Dagg who got roasted by Steve
Hansen in the changing room for not putting the ball
down earlier and then the All Blacks blew the box
away in 2012 at the same venue interestingly the game's
probably not going to sell out this weekend because ticket
prices are too high at this stage Likely to still
(29:49):
be close to $ 90, 000, but it's $ 94, 000. I think had
they priced the ticket prices right, it would have sold
out easily.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Yeah, I mean, it sold out twice previously. So, yeah,
they'll be kicking themselves that maybe they didn't price this
one right because... It's 94,000 people worth of ticket takings
that they won't be able to get fully sold out on,
but it's still going to be a pretty epic crowd nonetheless.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Yeah, it's going to be a magic occasion and the
series decider.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Well, that's what you framed it as, so your last
game of the series. So, yeah, it's the fight for
Liam Napier's heart, really, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (30:28):
I like that, yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Oh, very good. Right, that'll do us for Rugby Direct.
We will be back on Sunday. in your podcast feed
before we go our separate ways and look forward to
that fourth test. But as always, thanks to Mark Kelly
for producing, and we are powered by Access Solutions, elevating
you and your business too often.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
For more from Newstalk ZB, listen live, on air, or online,
and keep our shows with you wherever you go with
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Speaker 2 (00:16):
Strike down the middle.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Drop it down and score. There's your bonus point. Try.
He's pumped. Try. Game over.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct
with Elliot Smith and Liam Napier. Powered by Newstalk ZB.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct, powered by Access Solutions, elevating you
and your business to a higher level. Rugby Direct, back
in Johannesburg for, I don't know how many times I've
been zigzagging around this beautiful country, but, Napes, good to
be in Johannesburg for the final leg of the South
African part of the series.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
It is, Elliot. It's been, what, a six-week expedition, and
this is the last leg in South Africa, at least,
and a big old week at that.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Has been. A lot of controversy and various other things
which we'll get into. Again, Liam, you've gone down with Ildis. Second,
third time this tour. What's gone wrong?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
She's been a rough ride, that's for sure. There's Barley Belly.
I've had Cape Town Belly twice. I'm blaming your famous,
favoured Vixie's restaurant.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Cape Town's quite good. Well, I think it's good. I've
come through unscathed.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
It's good for some.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Three times in this tour having gone there.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yes, it's been a rough couple of days. I haven't
ventured too far. So, yes, great country, great people, but
the food on this trip has not agreed with me.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Yeah, well, you've got an extra week here as well,
so good luck. Let's get into the All Blacks team
named for this third test. And, Liam, a fair few surprises,
I guess you could say. We thought that maybe the
Cody Taylor switch out of the 23 might happen, but
they've gone and done it. Obviously, Sam Derry comes in
as well. Pete Lakai into the run-on side. Those are
(02:09):
the big three changes in the pack. Your reaction to
that All Blacks team?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Big, brave, bold. Yeah, I like most of them. We
advocated it. I think everyone wanted Armour to get a crack.
how could you not after his performances off the bench,
just as ball carrying punch power, um, the way he
bends and breaks the line. And we've talked a lot
about the fact that the all blacks pack has lacked
(02:35):
that ball carrying punch. So he certainly brings that, um,
a wee bit of a surprise, perhaps that Taylor's not
involved at all, uh, with Samsoni Takiahoa coming onto the bench. Um,
but I think he will bring punch as well. Uh,
I'm a big Peter Lakai advocate. Um, I probably believe
he's an eight. His best position's eight or seven. And
(02:57):
there is a bit of a curiosity that his two
starts for the All Blacks this year have come at six.
His last one was the opening test of the year
against France. But he'll roam the edges. He'll bring real
ball carrying. He's dynamic. He can offload. He's got pace
and a step. I think the changes generally speak to
(03:17):
the All Blacks' desire to run the box off their
feet at altitude. Sam Darius being brought in, I think,
to try and shore up the line-out. I thought Josh
Lord might come back. Him and Ethan DeGroote weren't considered
because of concussion. Both passed the protocols, but they wanted
to give him another week. The concern I have with
Sam Darius perhaps is physicality, but I guess we're going
(03:40):
to find out this weekend where he's at.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Yeah, big test for him. First time he started against
South Africa, but I agree the blueprint is pretty clear
as to The way the All Blacks want to play,
they want to start stronger than they have in the
previous two Test matches so far in this series. Obviously,
it's got them to 1-1 at this point, but they
want to get in a better position by halftime than
they have been in the last couple.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Well, they've only scored first in one of Dave Rennie's
five Tests, the victory over Ireland at Eden Park.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Speaks to the All Blacks' issues. Last year, it was
the third quarter when they fell apart this season. time.
They're struggling to get into the game and so they're
going to have to figure out a way to do that.
I think Amua's selection is a smart one. I think, look,
obviously last week there were line-out issues. The All Blacks
line-out operated at 83%. There were issues when Taylor was throwing.
(04:32):
There were issues when Amua was throwing as well. So
it's a real issue for the All Blacks getting that right.
And when you've got Eben Etzebeth, Norkia, Peter Steftetoy getting up,
you're dealing with players that have got around 400 caps
worth of experience, maybe just slightly under that combined, they
(04:53):
know their way around the line-out. So the All Blacks
have got to find ways to be better. They say
today that they have looked at that this week, but
the pressure will be on more with the line-out because
it's been an area where we can run a little
hot and cold.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah, well, there's been so much focus on the scrum,
hasn't there, and so much chat. around the tactics and
the bickering. But it was the line-out, as you say,
that was a fundamental failure from the All Blacks last week.
It wasn't just the ones that the box snaffled. It
was the disruption that they caused throughout. Even the ones
(05:28):
the All Blacks did win, it was largely scrappy. And
what the box did well is they actually largely closed
off the back ball for the All Blacks. And so
they said... gamble and throw to the back, and we're
going to have our best line-out jumpers there, or you
can throw to the front. And what that does is
all rugby attack coaches will tell you that they want
(05:48):
to go to the back to launch set-piece platforms. So
very smart, technically, from the box, and they were very
effective with it. So like you say, the All Blacks
are talking about their adjustments. Maybe that's a few specials.
Maybe that's a bit of... Quick throws, front ball to
the props, getting set early, I'm not too sure, but
(06:09):
they do need to get it right.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
I think it's getting set early. They've talked a lot
about not wanting to waste time in matches, and this
isn't wasting time necessarily because the line-out is set ready
to go, but they seem to, whether it was getting
the calls last week, whatever it was, but I often
think just bang, bang, bang, getting it in and throwing
is the best way to go about it. It's easier
(06:33):
said than done, I know that, but it feels like
they're a little too ponderous, perhaps at line-out time last week,
so they need to find a way to try and
solve that. So I think on Moore's selection as well,
it actually is interesting to see how that goes with
the scrums, because I think his frame suits scrummaging against
a guy like Malcolm Marks, and we saw that with
(06:53):
that big scrum back in the first test, and the
way that he operated there as well. So I think
that's going to be interesting to see how that goes.
Another wee stat is that it is Dowery, Lakai and Oumuwa's,
all of theirs, sixth test start.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
So that's a nod to the, perhaps the lesser experienced players.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
At a big game like this.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Or it's one of the most experienced Springbok teams in history.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Yeah. I mean, Oumuwa's been around the All Blacks camp
on and off for nine, ten seasons now. Debut in 2017.
Darry's been around a couple of years. Lakai's been around
a couple of years. But in terms of starting games,
this is a big moment for all three of them.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, I was wondering where you were going with that.
But it's a very good point because Rennie's 10 years
in its infancy, right? But the series is locked at 1-1.
This is the biggest test match probably the All Blacks
have played since the Rugby World Cup. The only comparable
one would perhaps be defending Fortress Eden Park against the Box. But...
(07:57):
with everything on the line, Rene has turned to youth.
He's dropped a Test Centurion and brought in guys with
single digits of Test. So it's a massive vote of
confidence in youth and it's also rewarding form. And I
think he's done that with selections throughout this year. If
you play well, if you knock on the door hard enough,
(08:20):
you will be rewarded in most cases.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Yeah, absolutely. And I think with the selection for Derry,
I would love to see him bring a little bit
more physicality. I thought he carried well in the two
games he had in July, France, and Italy. He wasn't
required against Ireland, and he hasn't been seen in a
test match since. But I think he's a strong carrier
of the ball. I think the line-out probably operated his
(08:44):
best when he was on the park in July as well.
So I'm intrigued to see how he goes. And Laka...
I tend to agree with you, and the size factor
probably worries me a little bit in that loose forward trio.
Dave Rennie conceded today, obviously he's not the biggest player,
but believes that he can run both sides of the ball,
(09:08):
both attack and defence, and put the spring box in
some awkward areas. So, yeah, let's hope that they do so.
The back line, unchanged. Is that a surprise for you
at all?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
No, I didn't think they would change the back line.
I thought they may look at the bench options look
I think the attack is functioning pretty well isn't it
was it nine tries to four and really talked about
the cohesion the combinations and when they do get quick
hands and they do overload edges and and get space
(09:42):
they're working really well so I'm not too sure What
changes would you have made to that back line?
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Well, I can't see any. I mean, there's none that
I would make.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Lee Ricard was thrown in to start, and he was
one of the All Blacks' best.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Yeah, so I can't see an argument to make it.
I think they've got their 9 to 15, the best
players in each position as it stands currently.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah, the only issue, and it's a big one, is
the high ball.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
And that's a riddle the All Blacks cannot solve, not
for a change in coaching regime. It looked as though
they'd made some gains earlier this year, but coming up
against a team as proficient and effective as a box
with their kicking game and their aerial contesting, They've gone
backwards at a great rate of knots, haven't they? Leroy Carter,
(10:28):
I thought was good, has just catch it. He sort
of followed through at times, but it remains a massive
issue and the All Blacks know it's coming again.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Yeah. I don't know how you solve it quickly.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Neither do I.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
I don't know whether they need an AFL skills coach
or somewhere in that because it's an area we don't
see enough at Super Rugby level, then This is an
old argument, but when you get to test level, opposition
teams are going to kick at you and kick repeatedly,
and the All Blacks just aren't equipped to deal with it.
So whether it's a specialist coach, whether it's... I don't know,
but they need to find a way to get more
(11:06):
of that ball. I don't like the rule changes that
have been in for a couple of years. I think
it makes it a lottery, makes it a skittery type
of game. I don't think it's a great look for
the game. I'm not sure why World Rugby's done this,
but they have. And I think ideally you bring back
the escort, but it has turned it into a lottery
and the All Blacks have to deal with it.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Well, yeah, it promotes kicking because, as you say, it's
a 50-50 contest. So the team kicking the ball has
a great chance of getting it back. So why would
you not? So if you're receiving it, it's a lot
more difficult. So that's where the All Blacks are struggling.
Just going back a little bit with Sam Derry, one
of his good skills is– soft hands at the line.
(11:50):
And I think that, again, speaks to the All Blacks'
desire to play at pace, to run the box off
their feet. One point we haven't touched on is Fabian
Holland to the bench. So no Josh Lord, but Holland's
been one of the All Blacks' best. Were you surprised
by that at all?
Speaker 3 (12:04):
A little, but I do wonder whether they think, and look,
they're looking at the GPS numbers, whether they look and go,
maybe the tank's just not quite where it is. Remembering
he got injured in pre-season for the Highlanders. them playing
two test matches back-to-back. He also played 80 minutes against
the Bulls and 40 minutes earlier in the campaign against
(12:28):
the Storm. I'm trying to think how much he... He's
played a lot of rugby in a short space of
time for someone that hasn't played much rugby previously this
year to this point. So if they... I mean, ideally, hopefully,
touch wood, neither of the starting locks get injured, but
maybe he's got half an hour in him this week.
Maybe they decide to rest him entirely next week, depending
on the context of the series. I think he's been
(12:49):
one of the All Blacks best in those last two
test matches, but a little bit surprised, but I kind
of think it's the right horses for courses approach here.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah, I think he'll bring a lot of impact off
the bench and the All Blacks will need that. They've
won the last two quarters, so they're clearly targeting that again.
Just in terms of those figures you speak of, the
Box are running their veteran figures into the ground. We
think about their phenomenal depth. Well, they haven't really used
(13:20):
it in the series, so is that a risk? Are
they going to fatigue? Because it's the All Blacks that
are actually rotating more.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
It is, absolutely, and I don't think many would have
expected that prior to the series. We saw what Rusty
did last year between Auckland and Wellington, made mass changes.
Wouldn't surprise me if they do that for Baltimore, even
if they're 2-1 down, even if they have to win
to get the series.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
I think both teams will rotate big time.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Yeah, that travel factor is just going to be immense
for a lot of players, and they're all on the
same plane, but I think that you need fresh bodies
when you get to Baltimore. So that wouldn't surprise me
next week, but it has, yeah, it surprised me a
little that they haven't changed things up. I think Russie
or us has talked a couple of times about a
(14:02):
World Cup mentality and what they're looking for. And obviously
three quarterfinals, semifinals, finals games next year, also a round
of 16 too, but you're going to have to have
similar players. But I think, When you're facing the same
opposition three weeks in a row, you do have to
take a little bit of a horses-for-courses approach. So, you know,
they're not presenting... Look, maybe they'll come up with some
(14:24):
different tactics on the weekend. Maybe Tony Brown's going to
get off the leash this week. Don't know. But they're
not presenting different pictures to the All Blacks in terms
of the personnel they're putting on the park. So, for me,
I think that's a bonus for the All Blacks is
that they know the way that these Springboks players are
going to play. They haven't looked for a Hanekom. They
haven't looked for changing up the second row. It's only
(14:47):
been injury enforced. Yeah. They obviously did the prop thing
or the front row thing last week. But yeah, I'm
a little surprised that they've been so, not conservative, that's
the wrong word, but so stringent in just picking the
same players week to week.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Well, it's a real deviation from what we've seen consistently
from the box over the past year when they've won
those 12 tests in a row. Yeah it's very intriguing
and I guess the box are looking at it and
going well we improved drastically from test one to two.
We were far more efficient in our red zone conversion.
(15:24):
We didn't get the scrum dominance we want but we
made a mess of the All Blacks line outs and
our power game worked even if we faded late in
the game. So they're thinking that they can go step, step, step.
The All Blacks are looking at it going well we
haven't been at our best, we came back and blew
the box away in the second half of the first test.
(15:45):
We were inaccurate, didn't convert our chances, let them get
away in the second so we need to start better
and that's why I think they've injected some fresh legs.
But yeah it is surprising when you look at the complexion.
If you said at the start of the series who
was going to rotate more, it would certainly be the box.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Absolutely. Let's just touch on the All Blacks bench. You
mentioned earlier the around maybe Cody Taylor being surprised that
he hasn't gone to the bench and they've decided to
go Takeoho. I'm intrigued at this point in their career
whether Taylor can be an impact player. We saw Kevin
Miyalama do that very well in 2015 World Cup. He
(16:27):
came on and played the last 20 and they went
for an older head that way. I'm not saying this
is the end of Cody Taylor's starting career by any
stretch of the imagination, but Maybe this is the point
where they do have to consider, you know, is he
the out-and-out starter? If he doesn't start, is he a
bench player? Those are all sorts of conversations because not
every starter's a bench player.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
I think it's a real crossroads. It is for Cody.
He's been a stalwart of this team. He was next
in line to be captain if it wasn't Artie Sevier.
Rennie rates him highly as part of the leadership group.
But that just shows that nobody's position's safe. And... he'll
be nervous because a lot of it will depend on
how Amua goes this weekend. If he has a shocker
(17:11):
at the line-outs, then Taylor's stocks probably rise again and
you think, well, the All Blacks really need him. I
think he can be an asset off the bench in
terms of coming in and closing out a game, but
he's not your Amua, Takiahou, punch impact type bench player,
(17:36):
so it depends what you want. And I think an
Amua Takiahou one-two punch is pretty compelling.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Yeah, it is. Look, the caveat is getting that line-out right.
Because if you can't throw, that's your core job. If
you can't throw straight, you can't get the ball to
your jumpers, then your value diminishes, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
It does. And also, look, the line-out is not... cumbersome
on one player alone.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
And often the blame falls on the hooker when there's
so many moving parts in a line-out. But if there's
a common denominator consistently, then it's pretty hard tag to shake.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yeah, well, because there's so much on the hooker, even
if it's not their fault that the ball isn't going,
there's often not straight or whatever, or balking, whatever it
might be, all that responsibility falls on the hooker getting
their part right. So that's key.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Look, Armour is capable. I remember the test in Dublin,
I think. when the All Blacks won under Razor there
and he came in to start and that's his best
test performance, certainly starting.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
That was his last start?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
For the All Blacks and he nailed the line out
and Ireland rate themselves in that capacity, they're probably not
at the box level but he really stepped up so
he is capable and this is a prime chance for
him to show that.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
It is indeed. The rest of the bench, it was
interesting to hear Dave Rennie's explanation on why Anton Leonard-Brown
has been given the nod over, say, Rico Iwani or
other players that.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
The drums are really beating there.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Yeah, they are. And basically it comes down to work
ethic and defence. And credit to Dave Rooney, like, I
would have probably gone Rico Iwani, but he explained himself
pretty clearly as to why he was of that view.
And you can either take it or leave it. But basically,
it's down to work ethic, defence. It's agreed that Iwani
is the better X-factor player, but the overall package, they
(19:27):
prefer what Leonard-Brown brings.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
He explained himself very well, didn't he? And how refreshing
is it to have that honesty from a coach to
come out and say, look, yeah, Rico's a freak with
the ball in hands, but he can be exposed defensively.
And we saw that in his last game against the Lions.
Got stepped. It was a big break. And he got
two tries in that game. So you've got to be
(19:50):
able to do it on.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Both sides of the ball.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Look, I'm I probably wouldn't be selecting Leonard Brown I
understand the defensive perspective but I want your bench to
be coming on and delivering impact not I feel like
Leonard Brown's a safe bet and his trump card for
me was the fact he covered second and centre and
you don't need that now with Quinta Pye and Geordie
Barrett there you've got that cover so whether it's a
(20:13):
Rico Awani or someone else I think there's room for
someone to push for that and then a Josh Morby
I think we're in agreeance that I don't see him
as an out-and-out impact player either. Maybe he will prove
us wrong and come on this weekend and come off
the line and have a real impact. But I think
an Amoni Narawa, even a Fihi potentially, has that more
(20:37):
physical impact prototype to them.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Yeah, I agree. I think that's the kind of play
you want. Broken play late in the game. tied defences
to take on, you know, Josh Morby's got great footwork,
but I just think a bigger ball runner and a
powerful ball runner at that is something you need in
that closing stage. I mean, it's hard to argue because
the All Blacks have played their best rugby in the
(21:02):
latter part of both of these games. So quibbling with
the bench. Yeah, but Josh Morby wasn't used last week. Exactly. So, yeah,
I would have gone a little bit different this week.
Maybe a Fihi, maybe a, yeah, someone like that. that
is capable of being that X-factor sort of player.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Yeah, and I think they are missing Caleb Clarke because
just for a different dynamic in that back three, if
you look at Damian McKenzie, Will Jordan, Leroy Carter, they're
all small athletes. Will Jordan is very elusive, and to
look at the bloke, I still don't know how he
beats so many defenders and shakes them off. He's a
freak with ball in hand, but I think if you
(21:41):
had a Caleb Clarke per se, starting on the left
wing and then you bring on Leroy Carter. Leroy Carter's
not necessarily a big athlete, but he strikes me as
much more of an impact player than the Josh Morgan.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Yeah, I think we're still stuck in the era in
New Zealand of insurance policies on the bench and who
covers what position in worst-case scenarios, where really I think
you've got to forget about the worst-case scenario and think, OK,
ideal scenario, how do we close out the game from
minutes 55 to 80? What does our ideal blueprint look like?
How do we accelerate our game plan or continue to
(22:20):
bring our game plan to fruition through those closing 20,
25 minutes?
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, that's where Rico's value, I think, rises because he
has the centre and wing cover where Lennon Brown's card
has dropped in recent times. The only point I would
make there is that The box were burnt in Test
1 with their 6-2 Esterhazen hybrid role because they lost
(22:46):
a couple of outside backs and that really cost them.
So there is inherent risk in not having all your
bases covered, but I think Morby was a wasted player
on the bench last week.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Yeah, I would have been tempted to go 6-2 potentially
this week. Not sure whether Ethan Blackadder is entirely fit.
You reported that he was a bit under the weather.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
I.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Think it was something different, but there's been a few
All Blacks wearing masks. They've definitely had the flu through
their camp throughout this tour, and I don't know whether
that was a factor in his non-selection this week, but
we've had Luke Jacobson, Jason Ryan told us before last
week's game, Ethan DeGroote, I think Ethan Blackadder, so a
number of players have have been sick on this tour.
(23:31):
Not Susie Stowell like myself.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Yeah, no, no. Susie has resurrected herself and done a
number on you. Just on the bench finally, Fahingon Nuku
would probably be that ideal player to have on the bench,
whether that's in a 6-2 split or whatever it might be,
to come on and impact the game in the last 20,
25 minutes.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Absolutely. Yeah, he's the trump card that's yet to come back.
And that's the prototype, isn't it? Just a guy that
you can throw on with tiring bodies, smash through tackles,
break the advantage line, float across the field wherever he wants,
wherever you need him to be. He feels like a
dead cert once he's back fit and firing.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Yeah. Just before we wrap up, on the scrums, as
we've talked about, being a tit-for-tat this week, Rusty Erasmus
exploding at the Saturday media conference post-game. Did it again
on Monday, took issue. Dave Rennie today at the media
conference for the All Blacks, just dampening it down and
not really wanting to give it too much more airtime.
(24:33):
But this is all set up for, you know, we've
all had our say, the coaches have had their say,
but ultimately it's on Nika Amashikele on Saturday afternoon to
adjudicate whether the Springboks are walking around or whether the
All Blacks are seeing things that aren't there.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Yeah, it is. And Nika, he's... he takes a hard
line stance generally on most things, whether it's the breakdown
or scrum. So it's going to be very intriguing to
see his interpretations. I don't see him taking any shit,
but I feel like most things are a bit of
a lottery with him. I couldn't predict which way it's
(25:10):
going to go.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
I find it hard to follow at the best of times. Um,
he was the referee when the All Blacks lost to
the Springboks last year, 43-10 in the capital. Not the
refereeing at fault, but he oversaw that. Um, just to
point that out. So the All Blacks have to be
buttoned on for this one and make sure they're locked
into his interpretations of the game, aren't they?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
They are, yep. That's going to be intriguing. One final
stat for you. The All Blacks have won eight of
their last 10 games at altitude. That's Pretoria and Joburg.
So Soweto, Ellis Park, Pretoria. And I think, you know,
there's so much made of altitude, isn't there, coming here?
And you notice it when you're there walking up a
(25:53):
few stairs on a treadmill, whatever it might be. But
the style of rugby that the All Blacks want to
play now and traditionally throughout history as well, it suits them,
doesn't it?
Speaker 3 (26:05):
It does, absolutely, which is why I question the bench,
get her back to the bench, because I don't know
that that accelerates their game plan in the last 20,
25 minutes. Some players do. Yeah, but I'm not sure...
A Takeo... Yeah. Xavier Noumeir, Fabian Holland, Sissiti. The backs,
go back to the backs. I don't think that their
backs can drive home that advantage at altitude. You know,
(26:28):
Morby's a great stepper, and he's got a lot of pace.
So maybe jury's out there, because we haven't really seen
him off the bench. We didn't see him at all
last week.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
I think, to your point, it's an insurance policy. So
if Geordie Barrett-Quinterpie goes down in the 10th minute, Dave
really wants a guy that's going to make the tackles.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Yeah. Oh, totally. And he's the ideal person for that,
Leonard Brown.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Same for the back three, I think. Yeah. They're safe options,
aren't they?
Speaker 3 (26:53):
They are. They are indeed. One more thing to finish.
No flyover.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
No flyover. You're pretty hot on this.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Oh, just the fun police.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
You didn't shit your pants last week?
Speaker 3 (27:05):
No. I thought it was great. I was like, oh, jeez,
that's low. But it's a perception thing, isn't it? You
look and go, jeepers, is that coming? Oh, no, it's fine.
It's 12 metres. It's no problem at all. I thought
it was spectacular. I thought it was great. Really disappointed
that the fun police have had their say. And I
know the South African Civil Aviation Authority is having a
(27:26):
look and various other things. But it feels like people
have got up in arms in something that is now
a tradition and unfortunately won't happen this week.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yeah, look, it'll be a great shame if... We never
saw the flyover again. It was something that was iconic
for Alice Park in particular. I think, I don't know,
the last two times, three times that the All Blacks
have played there, it's very traditional.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
There's maybe an argument that it's been overdone because it
was that special Alice Park thing in 95 and they've
resurrected it a couple of times since and now it
was going to be at every game in the series.
Maybe there's an argument it's overdone. That's probably the argument
that you'd go with rather than, oh, yeah, we can't
have fun anymore.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, it certainly spooked a few people. It's made worldwide headlines,
hasn't it?
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Yeah, you look through your social media feed and it's
in the US, the UK. Finally, prediction-wise, I can't remember
what you predicted last week. I've gone box, box. Look,
I'm going to stick with the box, actually.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah. I just think if you told me at the
start of the series, and this is not a knock
on them, it's just that I think if you told
me at the start of the series that the Obelix
would field a team with George Bauer and Sam Derry
starting and a couple of others maybe, yeah, I would
(28:50):
have been pretty shocked. So it's intriguing how things have
played out. I just think the Bucs probably sneak it,
but I hope not.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Of course. I picked the All Blacks by three for
week one, four last week. I'm reverting back to the
All Blacks by two this week in Sweden. They haven't
lost this head-to-head in Sweden. I think the Boxer beat
an Argentina there from memory, although I'd have to check that.
But the All Blacks haven't lost there in two games.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, they broke John Schmidt's heart, their infamous in his
100th test in 2010.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
The He's Got Dag match, yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, amazing Ma Nonu break with the one boot. Perfect start.
long ball to Izzy Dagg who got roasted by Steve
Hansen in the changing room for not putting the ball
down earlier and then the All Blacks blew the box
away in 2012 at the same venue interestingly the game's
probably not going to sell out this weekend because ticket
prices are too high at this stage Likely to still
(29:49):
be close to $ 90, 000, but it's $ 94, 000. I think had
they priced the ticket prices right, it would have sold
out easily.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Yeah, I mean, it sold out twice previously. So, yeah,
they'll be kicking themselves that maybe they didn't price this
one right because... It's 94,000 people worth of ticket takings
that they won't be able to get fully sold out on,
but it's still going to be a pretty epic crowd nonetheless.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Yeah, it's going to be a magic occasion and the
series decider.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Well, that's what you framed it as, so your last
game of the series. So, yeah, it's the fight for
Liam Napier's heart, really, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (30:28):
I like that, yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Oh, very good. Right, that'll do us for Rugby Direct.
We will be back on Sunday. in your podcast feed
before we go our separate ways and look forward to
that fourth test. But as always, thanks to Mark Kelly
for producing, and we are powered by Access Solutions, elevating
you and your business too often.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
For more from Newstalk ZB, listen live, on air, or online,
and keep our shows with you wherever you go with
our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
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