September 6, 2026 • 32 mins
On the latest episode of Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier join the podcast for one final dispatch from South Africa as the All Blacks' hopes of a series victory come to an end.
After slipping to a 2-1 series defeat against the Springboks, the boys break down where it all went wrong.
Were the All Blacks undone by their own mistakes, or were South Africa simply a class above?
From key moments and selection decisions to the bigger picture under Dave Rennie, they reflect on a tough series, the lessons learned, and what it means for the All Blacks moving forward.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
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Speaker 2 (00:15):
Strike down the middle. Drop it.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Down and score.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
There's your bonus point, drop it down.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Welcome into Rugby Direct.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Powered by AXS Solutions, elevating you and your business to
a higher level. Elliot Smith with me, Liam Napier as always,
our final podcast from South Africa, leaving behind Josie Johannesburg.
And the All Blacks leaving behind a series that they
(00:56):
can no longer win, Liam. 2-1 down in the series.
A lot of attention put on Game 3, obviously, and
the All Blacks losing 29-24. It was seen as a
series within the series, and for many, the ultimate game.
But ultimately, to use that word again, they weren't good enough.
What were your top-line thoughts on that All Blacks defeat?
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Well, I do just want to acknowledge the occasion, first
and foremost, Elliot, because I think it's easy in the
wake of a loss. You know, had the All Blacks won,
I think we'd be sitting here saying that was a classic,
an amazing occasion.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
What was it?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Close to 90,000 people in Soweto. A black hole in
terms of internet, which posed a lot of challenges from
a working perspective. But it really was an amazing atmosphere. Like,
those fans were cheering for... Every tackle, every kick, they
(01:51):
were chanting scrum, scrum, which is no surprise. And it
was a cauldron, and I thought it was a brilliant match.
And for probably 50-odd minutes, it really was counterpunch and
counterpunch as it has been throughout the series to heavyweights.
(02:12):
But look, the All Blacks are gutted, and they will
be extremely disappointed because they won that first match. They
upset the box on home soil at Alice Park, and
then they've dropped the next two. And the whole quest,
I think, of this series was to come to South
Africa and try and emulate that 1996 team. Now, that
(02:34):
was such a lofty goal, wasn't it, in the context
of the Sawblacks team, the fact that Dave Rennie's only
been in charge for two and a half months. But
that was certainly their goal. They had the 96 team
in before they left. They wanted to absorb the lessons.
They wanted to emulate their feats. and that's now dashed. Yes,
there's another game in Baltimore, and the All Blacks can
square the series, but the objective of this tour cannot
(02:57):
be achieved now.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
No, it can't. The best they can leave with is
a draw, and that will be ultimately frustrating for this
All Blacks team, because, as you say, they were 1-0
up after the first test. You know, Rusty Rasmussen made
a lot of noise around the third test being the
most pivotal of the series. Well, he was proven right.
He said that before the first match even. and the
(03:18):
Springboks were just too good and too clinical. They were
surgical-like in the way they dissected and dismantled the All Blacks,
I felt. And, look, the All Blacks were right in
this game. After the opening half hour, you know, they were, what,
12-5 up. Adi Sarvia had been playing a storming game
both tries to that point, goes off injured, and... The
(03:43):
All Blacks didn't really look the same after that. They
had some moments after that, but they sort of lost
a little bit, obviously with Sarvia going off, both in
terms of leadership and punch at the line. But they
just weren't good enough around the key facets of the game.
And even before Adi Sarvia went off, they mismanaged, I thought,
the 10-minute period when Sascha Feinberg and Gombazulu was yellow-carded.
(04:06):
They should have had another try with Tupou Vai. They conceded, what,
four penalties in a row at that point?
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Yeah, four straight penalties. So Sasha gets yellow carded. The
All Blacks score four straight penalties. And that just literally
piggybacked the box downfield to a line-out which they got
called for obstruction. But then Damien Delende, not long after,
scoots around Leroy Carter and the box score. And they
were held scoreless for 21 minutes. So the All Blacks
(04:33):
had to start well, and they did. Mm-hmm. But they
didn't capitalise on that period, and that was one of
many pivotal moments.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yeah, I mean, you can list them off, can't you?
Because the other one is the scrum, which again, they've
talked a lot about working through this. And look, the
Springboks did get penalised once for walking around, so that
was proven correct. But ultimately, they scrum for a penalty
try and just absolutely... dismantled the All Blacks pack in
(05:03):
that one. They had that rolling more try in the
second spell from around the 22, outside the 22. The
All Blacks, I think the story of the series maybe
for them is just not being guilty of taking the
opportunities that they've had. They've scored, what, four tries in
each of the games, but on the winning side of
the ledger once.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
It was 12 line breaks to five. So again, they
created so much opportunity They got to the edges. They
found a lot of space on the edges. I thought
in the first half they were largely dominant. Asafa Amor,
massive punch. He delivered exactly what you wanted. The line-out
functioned brilliantly. Peter Lakai was prominent as well. So I
(05:44):
think those two changes really worked. But they didn't capitalise
on that momentum, on their dominance there. And then I
felt going into halftime, 12 all, The All Blacks hadn't
made the most of their chances and then just gradually
(06:05):
the box imposed their will, imposed their power game and
feasted on the All Blacks' mistakes. So when we talk
issues for the All Blacks, it was their scrum, as
you say, and that was always going to be a
focal battleground, particularly with Nika there. He was never going
to let collapses go. Some of his rulings at times
(06:27):
around the breakdown are perplexing. I don't think he determined
the result. He's just not my favourite official. The high
ball at times was another issue. And then just a
couple of key moments, weren't there? Will Jordan kicking dead.
That was pretty pivotal. And discipline. That really allowed the
(06:50):
box to get their tails up in the second half.
And look, credit to the Springboks. I thought their defence...
some of their one-on-one spot tackles. They got a lot
of energy and momentum from just massive hits. And then
the All Blacks, particularly at the breakdown, just some really
basic technical silly penalties that allowed the Bucs to get downfield,
(07:10):
to go to their rolling mall, like you say, to
take points and squeeze the All Blacks, suffocate them, and
they just swarmed. They were very dominant in that final period.
And I thought the final margin of defeat probably didn't
reflect the Springboks' dominance in the second half?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yeah, well, 29-24, and the All Blacks score after the
siren to close that gap, but the All Blacks were
17-12 up, and it's easy to forget that because they
completely fell apart after scoring that go-ahead drive through Will Jordan.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
It was a moment of magic, too. Will Jordan, to
his credit, great little chip in behind, Leroy Carter regather,
pop pass, and I wouldn't say it was against the
run of play, but... It was so short-lived. They were
ahead for, what, two minutes?
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Two minutes. They bungled the kick-off restart, which has been
an ongoing issue for them in this series, is that
they score, and then South Africa is able to score
soon after because they can't get the kick-off receipt right.
Jesse Creel scoring and bumping off, throwing away. Leroy Carter,
who went high and couldn't make the tackle. And then
(08:17):
the Springboks level, then go ahead with the conversion, and...
It's been a series, I guess, of momentum swings. The
first test was when the All Blacks snatched the momentum
late and didn't give it up. Second test, South Africa
had it from the get-go. And the third test, it
was sort of the pendulum was swinging and looking for
somewhere to stop, and the All Blacks thought they had
it at 17-12 up. Yeah, it was against the run
(08:39):
of play, but if you score that, if you score again,
consolidate your advantage, you know, with a penalty goal or
just spending time in South African territory, but they weren't
able to do that. So... They've been guilty of making
their own bed, I guess, in many ways with some
of the mistakes that they've made that are ones that
(09:00):
they can eliminate from the game. I'm talking kick-off receipt.
I mean, the scrub is a bigger issue, but kick-off receipt,
breakdown work, the Fabian Holland clean-out when he got pinged,
other things around the game. These are technical issues that
the All Blacks should be better at.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yeah, and I think around the breakdown, it's such a
fine line between being assertive and aggressive and.
Being needless and headless and they need to eliminate those penalties.
So some penalties, um, are part of the game. You know,
you're going to get penalized at the scrum potentially, or, uh,
(09:37):
you push the envelope in some regard, but it's the
ones where you clean someone out well past the ball. Yeah.
That's just unnecessary coach killer moments. And, um, Unfortunately for
Dave Rennie, that's been pretty prevalent throughout this series. Luke
Jacobson's been pinged for it, Fabian Holland, maybe a couple
(09:57):
of others, and they do prove really costly. And you
just can't give a team like the Springboks a leg up.
When you score points, you have to be so clinical
in taking your restart and putting it out on the
halfway line and resetting and going again. Because if you
invite them in, if you allow them into your 22 invariably,
the stats tell us they're going to convert. They didn't
(10:20):
do that at Alice Park, but that was a one-off.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah. Yeah, it's like vampires. You invite them in. You
see the movie Sinners. You invite them in. They'll fucking...
tear the place apart, and that's exactly what they did.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
They'll bleed you dry.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, and they do. They're very, very good at that.
Once they get the ability to make an incision inside
the 22, they're very, very hard to stop from there.
I think the attack game plan, I think, for the
All Blacks is, by and large, working. It's the defensive
systems and the set piece that needs some real work,
and these aren't changes that can be made in seven days,
(10:53):
but they're going to have to find some way to
stop the rock.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Well, yeah, I think the spotlight has to be on
Jason Ryan right now. And maybe that's a wee bit
unfair because the Bucks are the best scrummaging team in
the world and everyone has issues with them. And it'll
be interesting to see how the All Blacks go when
they go up north against other teams. But the All
Blacks scrum right now hasn't been able to find the
(11:18):
fixes it needs.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Well, Terrell Lomax has looked completely off his game in
the series. You know, year or so ago, and he's
had a hell of a lot of injuries over the
last 12 months, but he was one of the premier
tight-head props in the world. I don't know that you
could say that at the moment, given the way that
All Black's scrum has been folded. They've clearly missed Ethan DeGroote,
I think, over the last couple of games. George Bauer's
(11:42):
sort of done a good job at plugging a hole,
but I don't know that he's a starting All Black's
loose-head prop in 2026, and They've also missed Tamati Williams,
who's obviously on the sidelines for the entire season. But
I think there's some interesting questions around the props going
forward for the All Blacks. And look, we don't know
(12:03):
who's going to Baltimore. We know who's not going, or
three players that aren't going to Baltimore. But I do
wonder whether someone like a Solomau may be worth a
look at scrum time in this test next week.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Yeah, small sample size, isn't it, that we've seen from him.
But he's a massive unit, 140 kgs, and they need
to find some fixes there. And we've seen on this
tour people like Pasolio Tosi. Unfortunately for him, be exposed
by the Springbok style of scrummaging and then wanting to
keep the ball in and scrum for penalties. And look,
(12:36):
this has been great exposure for a number of players,
but some of them have been found out. And there
is a real spotlight there. on the All Blacks scrum
and it will really hurt them because this is an
area that they pride themselves on forever and a day
and it's not a case of just being an attacking
(12:58):
team that can move the ball and play at pace
and look good. The All Blacks take a lot of
pride in their set piece and their scrum and they've
been dominated so it's one area of the game they
really need to look at. One player I think It's
flown under the radar and the Obelix have actually missed.
And I think he really suits Rene's style of game
(13:19):
as Scott Barrett. And there were whispers earlier this year
that he might retire. I'm now hearing that he's going
to be back in training with Taranaki soon.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
So he could play the NPC?
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Not sure about if he'll play the NPC, but I
think he'll be back in training.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Great. Which is.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Great news. And... I just think, I don't know if
he comes back this year or next, but not only
from a work rate perspective around the field, he does
a lot of that dirty work at the breakdown. He's
a very good line-out technician, not the tallest lot going around,
but I think it's often underestimated how much grunt someone
(14:01):
like a Barrett or Tupelo to provide that sort of
build gives a scrum. And I think Scott Barrett would
be extremely valuable in the context of that. I had
concerns going into that game about George Bauer, about Sam Derry.
I thought Sam Derry was very good around the field
(14:21):
and the line-out worked well. I don't know, but I
don't think he'd be a massive scrummaging unit. So all
these things need to be looked at, don't they? Because
you can get away with it against Italy, against a
second-string French team, But when you're up against the best
in the world in their backyard and you've got 90,000
people saying scrum, scrum, that's when you find out what
(14:44):
it's all about.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, and the weaknesses have been brutally exposed, I think,
over the last couple of weeks especially, but they were
also on the ropes in the first test as well,
which they came out on the right side of. And,
you know, in some ways they've been able to withstand
a lot of those punches because they've finished... Each of
the games, the loss within seven points, even in Cape
(15:08):
Town where they didn't have their best game last night,
where they were rattled and then beaten in the last
20 minutes, they still finished within seven. Not saying it's
a consolation by any stretch of the imagination, but the
way South Africa has played would have blown out a
lot of other teams. Do you take that as a
positive or is it very much, you know, you come
here to win? I do.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
I look at that team and one thing that has
been very evident throughout the whole series is their tenacity,
their heart, their spirit. At Alice Park, they were dead
and buried. Literally rose from the dead in that final
25 minutes with the scrum on their own line and
to surge over the top. One of the great victories
(15:48):
in All Blacks history. Cape Town, I thought they were
very much second best and they could have snatched a draw.
late but it was quite telling I thought in this
game you know so much was made of the All
Blacks record at altitude and the expectation for a bit
(16:09):
of rope-a-dope yeah you know the theory was start well
finish strong come over the top of the box and
you know I'm thinking in that first half okay they've
given them even 12 all at halftime I'm like that
they've given themselves a red hot go here because what
we've seen in this test series the All Blacks should
come home stronger but it was the box this time
and the All Blacks went to their bench earlier. They
(16:31):
had to in some regards because of the injuries, but
their front row replacements came on just after halftime and
they probably didn't get the same punch from their bench
and the box got the momentum and they certainly finished stronger.
Prior to that final try, I think it was 17-5
in the second half. so they really flipped that script.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah, they did, yeah. All the talk about the All
Blacks finishing strongly was almost like South Africa took that
as a challenge and thought, hey, actually, you know, we
can boss this final quarter. And I think the way
that the momentum swung so quickly after that Jordan tried
back to South Africa, they thought, OK, we've got 20
minutes here. We can close out the game. We're back
in front, and we can sort this. And they actually,
(17:12):
you know, steamrolled the All Blacks in the final 20
minutes in front of a buoyant crowd.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yeah, but just back to your point, I guess, about
Are you a glass half full or half empty? I
think about coming into the series, and I think we
discussed the minimum expectation for coming over here was one win.
And then the All Blacks get that in the first game,
and that sort of changes the complexion of your expectations,
(17:39):
doesn't it? So sitting here now, I know there's one
match in Baltimore, but if we just take the South
African leg, the three tests here, How do you assess
where the All Blacks are at? Are you a glass
half full or half empty on the context of what
we've seen?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I'd probably lean towards half full. Look, there are some
big issues that have been brutally exposed that the All
Blacks must work on if they want to be the
world's best team, if they want to win the World
Cup next year. But you're right. Ahead of the series,
one win in South Africa was sort of the minimum requirement.
And I think after the first match where they won
(18:15):
despite not playing their best rugby for an hour.
Sort of thought, OK, well, if the All Blacks can
play their best rugby and implement that game plan, then
surely they can win one of the next two. Well,
it didn't happen, and probably went a little bit backwards
over the last couple of test matches, and South Africa learned,
and I think adjusted much better than the All Blacks
(18:37):
did to some of those key factors. Obviously, the set
piece they knew was always going to be a strength
of South Africa's, but I think South Africa... after that
loss in game one, tidied themselves up a little bit.
They didn't turn over nearly as much ball in the
next two test matches and didn't allow the All Blacks
to implement the game plan that they've talked about so
(18:58):
much and bring that fatigue in. So, yeah, I'd probably
lean towards a glass half full 2-1. Look, they've lost
the ability to win this series. They can still draw
it next week if you consider the Baltimore part of
the series, which Rusty Rasmus clearly does, because he said
last night at the media conference, but Yeah, I'll probably
lean towards glass half full. What do you say?
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Yeah, I think so. And I thought Rusty, to his credit,
made quite a good point. He's been in charge of
that team since 2018. Rennie's been in charge for two
and a half months.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
And there's a lot of evolution yet in that All
Black team. A year is not a great time until,
a huge amount of time until the World Cup, but
I think we'll see a lot of, I hope we'll
see a lot of selection evolution. He would have The
All Blacks will learn so much from this tour, not
just about their starting test squad, but all the players
that they brought over and behind. You'll probably never until, well,
(19:56):
maybe never in Rene's tenure again have that many players
in a touring squad yep um so there's massive positives
to take out of that the attack has improved out
of sight but yeah there's some big vulnerabilities there um
against the spring box that I don't know if they
can solve certainly overnight um And I like what Rennie's
(20:20):
done from a selection point of view as well. He's
made some big calls, and I think a lot of
them have worked. When you look at Asafa Amua dropping
a test Centurion and Cody Taylor, how many other coaches
would have done that? So I think there's a lot
of promise there. But, yeah, there's still a few question marks.
I think Ruben Love's a great talent, but this wasn't
(20:44):
his best test. I'm not sure you... You certainly don't
need to bin him off, but he missed seven points
off the tee. You've got to kick that penalty. It
was 43 metres out. It's challenging conditions. It's blustery, yes,
but it was pretty much bang in front. So there's
all those little moments. I thought he was a wee
bit skittish early. So.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Still not sure on the yellow card. I didn't see
a replay of that, whether he was offside or not.
I actually, in real time, thought he timed it pretty well. But, again,
didn't see a replay of it, so I can't talk
for certain. But regardless... He did get himself yellow carded.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Yeah, that was a telling moment, wasn't it? Visa, I
think it was, made the break and some desperate, heroic
defence denied Le Boc on the line and then they
get the yellow card and they're hanging on for the
first half and the early stages of the second. So, yeah, look,
I think there's a lot to come from this All
Black team, but it is probably just a reminder of
(21:41):
why the Bocs have been so dominant and But the
All Blacks, they're not that far away either. They're pretty
confident within themselves. But, yeah, there's some vulnerabilities there. Just
to that power game, when you look at them all,
(22:02):
the scrum, and they're not surprises, are they? That's South
Africa's DNA, the high ball. Yeah. I'm not too sure
where those fixes come from at this point.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
No, and look, they've got seven days, including a flight,
which they're currently on, to try and apply some fixes
to get a draw out of this series. If we
look ahead to that game next week, Liam, in Baltimore,
with the caveat that by the time this podcast goes up,
then we might well know who's actually been on that plane.
We obviously know that Luke Jacobson, Artie Savia, Quinn Tapia
(22:35):
are not, but do you see wholesale changes next week?
What changes would you look at?
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Well, just should we touch on Ardy as well?
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Probably gone for the year.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
I'd say so. Look, it didn't look good when he
came up. And it's a shame he was having a,
as we touched on earlier, storming 30 minutes and on
track for one of those sort of games that Ardy
can have where he takes the team on his shoulders.
We saw it from one. We've seen it for the Hurricanes.
We've seen it for the All Blacks previously. And I
don't know if it was the ultimate turning point in
the game, but it was certainly a big one. And
(23:04):
he's a talismanic leader. So to lose him for potentially
the rest of the year, depending on what the scans
and everything say, I mean, again, it didn't look good,
I think is an absolutely massive blow.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Yeah, I thought Adi was quiet, very quiet in July
when he came back, and probably not surprising given he's
played 18 months on the rugby treadmill, but I thought
that break must have done him good because he grew
throughout the series, got better and better, and he was
inspirational at the weekend before leaving and it will be
(23:38):
a massive blow because I think he's been the right
choice as skipper and he's been a big factor in
uniting that team and building what Rennie's done so I
think Luke Jacobson would be next in line for the
captaincy but not too sure how bad his elbow is
(24:01):
but a massive blow and Quintipai MCL you'd think He
probably should be back later in the year. But who
captains the team this weekend? I guess you've got guys
like Cody Taylor, Geordie Barrett.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Well, yeah. I mean, I'd like to see a suffer more,
get another start. So then, for me, that rules out
Cody Taylor from being the captain this week. Now, Dave Rennie,
I'm not sure what his thinking is, but he may
want to get that experience back into the team, given
the loss of a couple of the leaders. It may
be not necessarily a... Tactical choice, but more of an
(24:36):
experienced choice to bring Cody Taylor back in, so he
may do that. But personally, I'd start Asafa Omura again.
So that probably leaves Geordie Barrett to start as captain
this week. You know, there are some up-and-coming leaders, I think,
in this all-black side. You know, Sam Darius, captain of
the Blues, Patrick Tui-Palotu, maybe you look at him, but
(24:58):
he hasn't had the best of tours by his own
standards yet. So far, so by process of elimination, and
not always a big fan of having a back as
a skipper, but I think Geordie Barrett probably fits the mold.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Yeah, the only question would be around his workload, wouldn't it?
He's had a massive tour, three starts, three big shifts,
so probably depends where his body's at, but it might
be a case of needs must and then give him
a breather. I agree, yeah. In terms of other changes,
you'd think Ethan DeGroote and Josh Lord would come back
into the mix. Maybe De Groot can have an impact
(25:33):
at scrum time. And then I think we need to
make a change in midfield. So I would be looking
at a Rico Awani at this point. I think there's
more upside in him than starting Leonard Brown, but they
will probably go Leonard Brown.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, I'd go Rico.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
I'd like to see Amani Narawa come into the mix
on the wing. I've got big question marks about that
defensive system that left Leroy Carter out. marking Damien Delende
and Jesse Creel, two much bigger men, got pushed off
on both occasions, and it's not a fair fight.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Well, Leo Ricciardo was the defensive pick. That was what
Dave Rooney.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
And he is a very good defender, but there's so
much space in that situation, and it just looked way
too easy for Damien Delende. He just palmed him off, and.
It's a vulnerability for the All Blacks because you've got
Leroy Carter defending there and Damian McKenzie outside him, two
very small men. So Jamie Wall asked Dave Rennie about
(26:31):
that at the press conference and he said, no, it's
a defensive structure. The plan is to try and get
them to throw a long ball over the top or
to make a spot tackle. Well, it didn't work. And
I just don't think you can have such a small
man marking a big midfielder. So look, Josh Morby paid
(26:52):
a big price, didn't he, for one missed tackle. So
it'll be intriguing to see how that plays out this week.
But I do like what Ngarawa brings in terms of
his skill set. He's got a bit of size, a
bit of strength. He's got a kicking game. Can play
fullback and wing. So he's one guy I'd like to
see come back into the mix. Fihi, potentially. You can't
(27:15):
make mass changes, but they will be forced to make
a couple. The drums will probably be beating for guys
like Ethan Blackadder and maybe a Tava Tava Nawa off
the bench.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Yeah, well, I think Ethan Blackadder may well have to
come into the... Depends on the makeup of how they
start their loose forward trio. I thought Lakai was good yesterday.
So do you start him again at blindside? Or do
you move him to number eight with Adi out, or
he can play seven? You know, six isn't his usual position.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
No, he starts. Look, I thought Wallace was good as well,
Wallace Atiti. So maybe he starts at eight, and Lakai could,
you could leave him at six potentially with Blackadder at seven.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
It's not the biggest loose forward trio going around, but.
your options are limited when you lose two loose forwards.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, and then we've already lost Anton Cegna, who I
think could have had a big role in the series,
but not to be, obviously, as well. As you say,
Josh Lord likely to come back into the mix. Who
starts at 9 and 10?
Speaker 3 (28:22):
I think it's Rich Moanga time. I think, I always
thought Baltimore would be the juncture that you could make
some changes and potentially bring him back into the mix.
I like the fact the All Blacks have stuck with
that continuity and given Ruben Love every chance. But Richie
Moronga's in the squad for a reason, and you need
to find out where he's at. You're not going to
(28:43):
do that against the Lions.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
I thought.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
It was a makeshift team. He had some moments, a
great cover tackle and one little burst, but it wasn't
vintage Moronga. But he needs a chance at some point,
and I think this is a good chance to give
him a crack at 10.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yeah, I'd probably go with him at 10 as well.
Roy Gard's had, obviously, that injury earlier in the series,
earlier in the tour. Look, Ruttema hasn't been fit for
the last few weeks. Whether they look to spell Roy Gard,
I'm not sure. I would get him to get out again. Yeah,
I think he's hugely influential. I'd be starting him again.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
And the All Blacks do get a break after this.
You can't be changing the whole team. It's still a
test match.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
It's still a test match, and they now have a
must-win scenario because they're steering down the barrel of three
losses in a row after a tenure that had started
so promisingly for Dave Rennie. So they're in must-win territory, really,
this week, aren't they?
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Yeah, and you also, I feel like you need to,
there's poles apart between Roy Gard and the rest I
think we'll see Dylan Pledger eventually come back into the
mix and probably by the World Cup I would expect
it all going well him to prove his fitness and
he'd be my guy off the bench at the World
Cup but Roy Gard gives you I thought he was
(30:02):
great at the weekend he took the ball away from
the ruck to avoid being caught and there was one
telling kick, a massive boot in behind. I thought he
kicked well aerially as well, so he gives you your
best link between backs and forwards, and also Mwanga the
best chance of performing, so I'd like to see him retained.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Yeah, well, it'll be interesting to see what Dave Rooney
does once this team lands in Washington, D.C., and then
on to on to Baltimore. That about does us for
Rugby Direct out of South Africa. Liam, safe travels around
South Africa. Look forward to seeing when you get back home.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Yeah, it's been a pleasure. Thanks for listening. It's been
a great tour. South Africa's a brilliant country and it's
been a captivating test series and just speaking to South
Africans and South African media, even yesterday I was talking
to Mark Kihei and he was saying New Zealand and
South Africa will probably never host another World Cup and
For South Africans, this is the closest that it's going
(31:04):
to get. And I've loved being in a country where
the series, the rugby, has been so engrossing for everyone.
You know, it's been front and centre. Anywhere you go,
people are talking to you about it. We had hotel
staff dropping springbok jerseys off at our doors. There's been
(31:25):
banter everywhere. So you can go to... You can often
go to France even during a World Cup or Washington
and not even know that the rugby's on. But South
Africans love their rugby. They're extremely passionate about it. And
it has been very front of mind for everyone. So
I've loved being here and loved every moment of touring.
(31:45):
And you're a good man. So I always enjoy your company.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Yeah, absolutely. Yep, we'll roll on to Washington, D.C. and Baltimore.
We'll have a podcast for you later in the week.
Not sure what shape it'll take as yet. Might just
be me. talking at you for 15 or so minutes,
so that'd be fun. But we will have something later
on in the week. Thanks to Mark Kelly for producing
Rugby Direct. As always, we're powered by Access Solutions, elevating
(32:11):
you and your business to a higher level.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
For more from Newstalk ZB, listen live, on air, or online.
And keep our shows with you wherever you go, with
our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to a podcast from Newstalk ZB. Follow this
and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Strike down the middle. Drop it.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Down and score.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
There's your bonus point, drop it down.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Welcome into Rugby Direct.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Powered by AXS Solutions, elevating you and your business to
a higher level. Elliot Smith with me, Liam Napier as always,
our final podcast from South Africa, leaving behind Josie Johannesburg.
And the All Blacks leaving behind a series that they
(00:56):
can no longer win, Liam. 2-1 down in the series.
A lot of attention put on Game 3, obviously, and
the All Blacks losing 29-24. It was seen as a
series within the series, and for many, the ultimate game.
But ultimately, to use that word again, they weren't good enough.
What were your top-line thoughts on that All Blacks defeat?
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Well, I do just want to acknowledge the occasion, first
and foremost, Elliot, because I think it's easy in the
wake of a loss. You know, had the All Blacks won,
I think we'd be sitting here saying that was a classic,
an amazing occasion.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
What was it?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Close to 90,000 people in Soweto. A black hole in
terms of internet, which posed a lot of challenges from
a working perspective. But it really was an amazing atmosphere. Like,
those fans were cheering for... Every tackle, every kick, they
(01:51):
were chanting scrum, scrum, which is no surprise. And it
was a cauldron, and I thought it was a brilliant match.
And for probably 50-odd minutes, it really was counterpunch and
counterpunch as it has been throughout the series to heavyweights.
(02:12):
But look, the All Blacks are gutted, and they will
be extremely disappointed because they won that first match. They
upset the box on home soil at Alice Park, and
then they've dropped the next two. And the whole quest,
I think, of this series was to come to South
Africa and try and emulate that 1996 team. Now, that
(02:34):
was such a lofty goal, wasn't it, in the context
of the Sawblacks team, the fact that Dave Rennie's only
been in charge for two and a half months. But
that was certainly their goal. They had the 96 team
in before they left. They wanted to absorb the lessons.
They wanted to emulate their feats. and that's now dashed. Yes,
there's another game in Baltimore, and the All Blacks can
square the series, but the objective of this tour cannot
(02:57):
be achieved now.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
No, it can't. The best they can leave with is
a draw, and that will be ultimately frustrating for this
All Blacks team, because, as you say, they were 1-0
up after the first test. You know, Rusty Rasmussen made
a lot of noise around the third test being the
most pivotal of the series. Well, he was proven right.
He said that before the first match even. and the
(03:18):
Springboks were just too good and too clinical. They were
surgical-like in the way they dissected and dismantled the All Blacks,
I felt. And, look, the All Blacks were right in
this game. After the opening half hour, you know, they were, what,
12-5 up. Adi Sarvia had been playing a storming game
both tries to that point, goes off injured, and... The
(03:43):
All Blacks didn't really look the same after that. They
had some moments after that, but they sort of lost
a little bit, obviously with Sarvia going off, both in
terms of leadership and punch at the line. But they
just weren't good enough around the key facets of the game.
And even before Adi Sarvia went off, they mismanaged, I thought,
the 10-minute period when Sascha Feinberg and Gombazulu was yellow-carded.
(04:06):
They should have had another try with Tupou Vai. They conceded, what,
four penalties in a row at that point?
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Yeah, four straight penalties. So Sasha gets yellow carded. The
All Blacks score four straight penalties. And that just literally
piggybacked the box downfield to a line-out which they got
called for obstruction. But then Damien Delende, not long after,
scoots around Leroy Carter and the box score. And they
were held scoreless for 21 minutes. So the All Blacks
(04:33):
had to start well, and they did. Mm-hmm. But they
didn't capitalise on that period, and that was one of
many pivotal moments.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yeah, I mean, you can list them off, can't you?
Because the other one is the scrum, which again, they've
talked a lot about working through this. And look, the
Springboks did get penalised once for walking around, so that
was proven correct. But ultimately, they scrum for a penalty
try and just absolutely... dismantled the All Blacks pack in
(05:03):
that one. They had that rolling more try in the
second spell from around the 22, outside the 22. The
All Blacks, I think the story of the series maybe
for them is just not being guilty of taking the
opportunities that they've had. They've scored, what, four tries in
each of the games, but on the winning side of
the ledger once.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
It was 12 line breaks to five. So again, they
created so much opportunity They got to the edges. They
found a lot of space on the edges. I thought
in the first half they were largely dominant. Asafa Amor,
massive punch. He delivered exactly what you wanted. The line-out
functioned brilliantly. Peter Lakai was prominent as well. So I
(05:44):
think those two changes really worked. But they didn't capitalise
on that momentum, on their dominance there. And then I
felt going into halftime, 12 all, The All Blacks hadn't
made the most of their chances and then just gradually
(06:05):
the box imposed their will, imposed their power game and
feasted on the All Blacks' mistakes. So when we talk
issues for the All Blacks, it was their scrum, as
you say, and that was always going to be a
focal battleground, particularly with Nika there. He was never going
to let collapses go. Some of his rulings at times
(06:27):
around the breakdown are perplexing. I don't think he determined
the result. He's just not my favourite official. The high
ball at times was another issue. And then just a
couple of key moments, weren't there? Will Jordan kicking dead.
That was pretty pivotal. And discipline. That really allowed the
(06:50):
box to get their tails up in the second half.
And look, credit to the Springboks. I thought their defence...
some of their one-on-one spot tackles. They got a lot
of energy and momentum from just massive hits. And then
the All Blacks, particularly at the breakdown, just some really
basic technical silly penalties that allowed the Bucs to get downfield,
(07:10):
to go to their rolling mall, like you say, to
take points and squeeze the All Blacks, suffocate them, and
they just swarmed. They were very dominant in that final period.
And I thought the final margin of defeat probably didn't
reflect the Springboks' dominance in the second half?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yeah, well, 29-24, and the All Blacks score after the
siren to close that gap, but the All Blacks were
17-12 up, and it's easy to forget that because they
completely fell apart after scoring that go-ahead drive through Will Jordan.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
It was a moment of magic, too. Will Jordan, to
his credit, great little chip in behind, Leroy Carter regather,
pop pass, and I wouldn't say it was against the
run of play, but... It was so short-lived. They were
ahead for, what, two minutes?
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Two minutes. They bungled the kick-off restart, which has been
an ongoing issue for them in this series, is that
they score, and then South Africa is able to score
soon after because they can't get the kick-off receipt right.
Jesse Creel scoring and bumping off, throwing away. Leroy Carter,
who went high and couldn't make the tackle. And then
(08:17):
the Springboks level, then go ahead with the conversion, and...
It's been a series, I guess, of momentum swings. The
first test was when the All Blacks snatched the momentum
late and didn't give it up. Second test, South Africa
had it from the get-go. And the third test, it
was sort of the pendulum was swinging and looking for
somewhere to stop, and the All Blacks thought they had
it at 17-12 up. Yeah, it was against the run
(08:39):
of play, but if you score that, if you score again,
consolidate your advantage, you know, with a penalty goal or
just spending time in South African territory, but they weren't
able to do that. So... They've been guilty of making
their own bed, I guess, in many ways with some
of the mistakes that they've made that are ones that
(09:00):
they can eliminate from the game. I'm talking kick-off receipt.
I mean, the scrub is a bigger issue, but kick-off receipt,
breakdown work, the Fabian Holland clean-out when he got pinged,
other things around the game. These are technical issues that
the All Blacks should be better at.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yeah, and I think around the breakdown, it's such a
fine line between being assertive and aggressive and.
Being needless and headless and they need to eliminate those penalties.
So some penalties, um, are part of the game. You know,
you're going to get penalized at the scrum potentially, or, uh,
(09:37):
you push the envelope in some regard, but it's the
ones where you clean someone out well past the ball. Yeah.
That's just unnecessary coach killer moments. And, um, Unfortunately for
Dave Rennie, that's been pretty prevalent throughout this series. Luke
Jacobson's been pinged for it, Fabian Holland, maybe a couple
(09:57):
of others, and they do prove really costly. And you
just can't give a team like the Springboks a leg up.
When you score points, you have to be so clinical
in taking your restart and putting it out on the
halfway line and resetting and going again. Because if you
invite them in, if you allow them into your 22 invariably,
the stats tell us they're going to convert. They didn't
(10:20):
do that at Alice Park, but that was a one-off.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah. Yeah, it's like vampires. You invite them in. You
see the movie Sinners. You invite them in. They'll fucking...
tear the place apart, and that's exactly what they did.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
They'll bleed you dry.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, and they do. They're very, very good at that.
Once they get the ability to make an incision inside
the 22, they're very, very hard to stop from there.
I think the attack game plan, I think, for the
All Blacks is, by and large, working. It's the defensive
systems and the set piece that needs some real work,
and these aren't changes that can be made in seven days,
(10:53):
but they're going to have to find some way to
stop the rock.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Well, yeah, I think the spotlight has to be on
Jason Ryan right now. And maybe that's a wee bit
unfair because the Bucks are the best scrummaging team in
the world and everyone has issues with them. And it'll
be interesting to see how the All Blacks go when
they go up north against other teams. But the All
Blacks scrum right now hasn't been able to find the
(11:18):
fixes it needs.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Well, Terrell Lomax has looked completely off his game in
the series. You know, year or so ago, and he's
had a hell of a lot of injuries over the
last 12 months, but he was one of the premier
tight-head props in the world. I don't know that you
could say that at the moment, given the way that
All Black's scrum has been folded. They've clearly missed Ethan DeGroote,
I think, over the last couple of games. George Bauer's
(11:42):
sort of done a good job at plugging a hole,
but I don't know that he's a starting All Black's
loose-head prop in 2026, and They've also missed Tamati Williams,
who's obviously on the sidelines for the entire season. But
I think there's some interesting questions around the props going
forward for the All Blacks. And look, we don't know
(12:03):
who's going to Baltimore. We know who's not going, or
three players that aren't going to Baltimore. But I do
wonder whether someone like a Solomau may be worth a
look at scrum time in this test next week.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Yeah, small sample size, isn't it, that we've seen from him.
But he's a massive unit, 140 kgs, and they need
to find some fixes there. And we've seen on this
tour people like Pasolio Tosi. Unfortunately for him, be exposed
by the Springbok style of scrummaging and then wanting to
keep the ball in and scrum for penalties. And look,
(12:36):
this has been great exposure for a number of players,
but some of them have been found out. And there
is a real spotlight there. on the All Blacks scrum
and it will really hurt them because this is an
area that they pride themselves on forever and a day
and it's not a case of just being an attacking
(12:58):
team that can move the ball and play at pace
and look good. The All Blacks take a lot of
pride in their set piece and their scrum and they've
been dominated so it's one area of the game they
really need to look at. One player I think It's
flown under the radar and the Obelix have actually missed.
And I think he really suits Rene's style of game
(13:19):
as Scott Barrett. And there were whispers earlier this year
that he might retire. I'm now hearing that he's going
to be back in training with Taranaki soon.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
So he could play the NPC?
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Not sure about if he'll play the NPC, but I
think he'll be back in training.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Great. Which is.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Great news. And... I just think, I don't know if
he comes back this year or next, but not only
from a work rate perspective around the field, he does
a lot of that dirty work at the breakdown. He's
a very good line-out technician, not the tallest lot going around,
but I think it's often underestimated how much grunt someone
(14:01):
like a Barrett or Tupelo to provide that sort of
build gives a scrum. And I think Scott Barrett would
be extremely valuable in the context of that. I had
concerns going into that game about George Bauer, about Sam Derry.
I thought Sam Derry was very good around the field
(14:21):
and the line-out worked well. I don't know, but I
don't think he'd be a massive scrummaging unit. So all
these things need to be looked at, don't they? Because
you can get away with it against Italy, against a
second-string French team, But when you're up against the best
in the world in their backyard and you've got 90,000
people saying scrum, scrum, that's when you find out what
(14:44):
it's all about.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, and the weaknesses have been brutally exposed, I think,
over the last couple of weeks especially, but they were
also on the ropes in the first test as well,
which they came out on the right side of. And,
you know, in some ways they've been able to withstand
a lot of those punches because they've finished... Each of
the games, the loss within seven points, even in Cape
(15:08):
Town where they didn't have their best game last night,
where they were rattled and then beaten in the last
20 minutes, they still finished within seven. Not saying it's
a consolation by any stretch of the imagination, but the
way South Africa has played would have blown out a
lot of other teams. Do you take that as a
positive or is it very much, you know, you come
here to win? I do.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
I look at that team and one thing that has
been very evident throughout the whole series is their tenacity,
their heart, their spirit. At Alice Park, they were dead
and buried. Literally rose from the dead in that final
25 minutes with the scrum on their own line and
to surge over the top. One of the great victories
(15:48):
in All Blacks history. Cape Town, I thought they were
very much second best and they could have snatched a draw.
late but it was quite telling I thought in this
game you know so much was made of the All
Blacks record at altitude and the expectation for a bit
(16:09):
of rope-a-dope yeah you know the theory was start well
finish strong come over the top of the box and
you know I'm thinking in that first half okay they've
given them even 12 all at halftime I'm like that
they've given themselves a red hot go here because what
we've seen in this test series the All Blacks should
come home stronger but it was the box this time
and the All Blacks went to their bench earlier. They
(16:31):
had to in some regards because of the injuries, but
their front row replacements came on just after halftime and
they probably didn't get the same punch from their bench
and the box got the momentum and they certainly finished stronger.
Prior to that final try, I think it was 17-5
in the second half. so they really flipped that script.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah, they did, yeah. All the talk about the All
Blacks finishing strongly was almost like South Africa took that
as a challenge and thought, hey, actually, you know, we
can boss this final quarter. And I think the way
that the momentum swung so quickly after that Jordan tried
back to South Africa, they thought, OK, we've got 20
minutes here. We can close out the game. We're back
in front, and we can sort this. And they actually,
(17:12):
you know, steamrolled the All Blacks in the final 20
minutes in front of a buoyant crowd.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yeah, but just back to your point, I guess, about
Are you a glass half full or half empty? I
think about coming into the series, and I think we
discussed the minimum expectation for coming over here was one win.
And then the All Blacks get that in the first game,
and that sort of changes the complexion of your expectations,
(17:39):
doesn't it? So sitting here now, I know there's one
match in Baltimore, but if we just take the South
African leg, the three tests here, How do you assess
where the All Blacks are at? Are you a glass
half full or half empty on the context of what
we've seen?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I'd probably lean towards half full. Look, there are some
big issues that have been brutally exposed that the All
Blacks must work on if they want to be the
world's best team, if they want to win the World
Cup next year. But you're right. Ahead of the series,
one win in South Africa was sort of the minimum requirement.
And I think after the first match where they won
(18:15):
despite not playing their best rugby for an hour.
Sort of thought, OK, well, if the All Blacks can
play their best rugby and implement that game plan, then
surely they can win one of the next two. Well,
it didn't happen, and probably went a little bit backwards
over the last couple of test matches, and South Africa learned,
and I think adjusted much better than the All Blacks
(18:37):
did to some of those key factors. Obviously, the set
piece they knew was always going to be a strength
of South Africa's, but I think South Africa... after that
loss in game one, tidied themselves up a little bit.
They didn't turn over nearly as much ball in the
next two test matches and didn't allow the All Blacks
to implement the game plan that they've talked about so
(18:58):
much and bring that fatigue in. So, yeah, I'd probably
lean towards a glass half full 2-1. Look, they've lost
the ability to win this series. They can still draw
it next week if you consider the Baltimore part of
the series, which Rusty Rasmus clearly does, because he said
last night at the media conference, but Yeah, I'll probably
lean towards glass half full. What do you say?
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Yeah, I think so. And I thought Rusty, to his credit,
made quite a good point. He's been in charge of
that team since 2018. Rennie's been in charge for two
and a half months.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
And there's a lot of evolution yet in that All
Black team. A year is not a great time until,
a huge amount of time until the World Cup, but
I think we'll see a lot of, I hope we'll
see a lot of selection evolution. He would have The
All Blacks will learn so much from this tour, not
just about their starting test squad, but all the players
that they brought over and behind. You'll probably never until, well,
(19:56):
maybe never in Rene's tenure again have that many players
in a touring squad yep um so there's massive positives
to take out of that the attack has improved out
of sight but yeah there's some big vulnerabilities there um
against the spring box that I don't know if they
can solve certainly overnight um And I like what Rennie's
(20:20):
done from a selection point of view as well. He's
made some big calls, and I think a lot of
them have worked. When you look at Asafa Amua dropping
a test Centurion and Cody Taylor, how many other coaches
would have done that? So I think there's a lot
of promise there. But, yeah, there's still a few question marks.
I think Ruben Love's a great talent, but this wasn't
(20:44):
his best test. I'm not sure you... You certainly don't
need to bin him off, but he missed seven points
off the tee. You've got to kick that penalty. It
was 43 metres out. It's challenging conditions. It's blustery, yes,
but it was pretty much bang in front. So there's
all those little moments. I thought he was a wee
bit skittish early. So.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Still not sure on the yellow card. I didn't see
a replay of that, whether he was offside or not.
I actually, in real time, thought he timed it pretty well. But, again,
didn't see a replay of it, so I can't talk
for certain. But regardless... He did get himself yellow carded.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Yeah, that was a telling moment, wasn't it? Visa, I
think it was, made the break and some desperate, heroic
defence denied Le Boc on the line and then they
get the yellow card and they're hanging on for the
first half and the early stages of the second. So, yeah, look,
I think there's a lot to come from this All
Black team, but it is probably just a reminder of
(21:41):
why the Bocs have been so dominant and But the
All Blacks, they're not that far away either. They're pretty
confident within themselves. But, yeah, there's some vulnerabilities there. Just
to that power game, when you look at them all,
(22:02):
the scrum, and they're not surprises, are they? That's South
Africa's DNA, the high ball. Yeah. I'm not too sure
where those fixes come from at this point.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
No, and look, they've got seven days, including a flight,
which they're currently on, to try and apply some fixes
to get a draw out of this series. If we
look ahead to that game next week, Liam, in Baltimore,
with the caveat that by the time this podcast goes up,
then we might well know who's actually been on that plane.
We obviously know that Luke Jacobson, Artie Savia, Quinn Tapia
(22:35):
are not, but do you see wholesale changes next week?
What changes would you look at?
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Well, just should we touch on Ardy as well?
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Probably gone for the year.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
I'd say so. Look, it didn't look good when he
came up. And it's a shame he was having a,
as we touched on earlier, storming 30 minutes and on
track for one of those sort of games that Ardy
can have where he takes the team on his shoulders.
We saw it from one. We've seen it for the Hurricanes.
We've seen it for the All Blacks previously. And I
don't know if it was the ultimate turning point in
the game, but it was certainly a big one. And
(23:04):
he's a talismanic leader. So to lose him for potentially
the rest of the year, depending on what the scans
and everything say, I mean, again, it didn't look good,
I think is an absolutely massive blow.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Yeah, I thought Adi was quiet, very quiet in July
when he came back, and probably not surprising given he's
played 18 months on the rugby treadmill, but I thought
that break must have done him good because he grew
throughout the series, got better and better, and he was
inspirational at the weekend before leaving and it will be
(23:38):
a massive blow because I think he's been the right
choice as skipper and he's been a big factor in
uniting that team and building what Rennie's done so I
think Luke Jacobson would be next in line for the
captaincy but not too sure how bad his elbow is
(24:01):
but a massive blow and Quintipai MCL you'd think He
probably should be back later in the year. But who
captains the team this weekend? I guess you've got guys
like Cody Taylor, Geordie Barrett.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Well, yeah. I mean, I'd like to see a suffer more,
get another start. So then, for me, that rules out
Cody Taylor from being the captain this week. Now, Dave Rennie,
I'm not sure what his thinking is, but he may
want to get that experience back into the team, given
the loss of a couple of the leaders. It may
be not necessarily a... Tactical choice, but more of an
(24:36):
experienced choice to bring Cody Taylor back in, so he
may do that. But personally, I'd start Asafa Omura again.
So that probably leaves Geordie Barrett to start as captain
this week. You know, there are some up-and-coming leaders, I think,
in this all-black side. You know, Sam Darius, captain of
the Blues, Patrick Tui-Palotu, maybe you look at him, but
(24:58):
he hasn't had the best of tours by his own
standards yet. So far, so by process of elimination, and
not always a big fan of having a back as
a skipper, but I think Geordie Barrett probably fits the mold.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Yeah, the only question would be around his workload, wouldn't it?
He's had a massive tour, three starts, three big shifts,
so probably depends where his body's at, but it might
be a case of needs must and then give him
a breather. I agree, yeah. In terms of other changes,
you'd think Ethan DeGroote and Josh Lord would come back
into the mix. Maybe De Groot can have an impact
(25:33):
at scrum time. And then I think we need to
make a change in midfield. So I would be looking
at a Rico Awani at this point. I think there's
more upside in him than starting Leonard Brown, but they
will probably go Leonard Brown.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, I'd go Rico.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
I'd like to see Amani Narawa come into the mix
on the wing. I've got big question marks about that
defensive system that left Leroy Carter out. marking Damien Delende
and Jesse Creel, two much bigger men, got pushed off
on both occasions, and it's not a fair fight.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Well, Leo Ricciardo was the defensive pick. That was what
Dave Rooney.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
And he is a very good defender, but there's so
much space in that situation, and it just looked way
too easy for Damien Delende. He just palmed him off, and.
It's a vulnerability for the All Blacks because you've got
Leroy Carter defending there and Damian McKenzie outside him, two
very small men. So Jamie Wall asked Dave Rennie about
(26:31):
that at the press conference and he said, no, it's
a defensive structure. The plan is to try and get
them to throw a long ball over the top or
to make a spot tackle. Well, it didn't work. And
I just don't think you can have such a small
man marking a big midfielder. So look, Josh Morby paid
(26:52):
a big price, didn't he, for one missed tackle. So
it'll be intriguing to see how that plays out this week.
But I do like what Ngarawa brings in terms of
his skill set. He's got a bit of size, a
bit of strength. He's got a kicking game. Can play
fullback and wing. So he's one guy I'd like to
see come back into the mix. Fihi, potentially. You can't
(27:15):
make mass changes, but they will be forced to make
a couple. The drums will probably be beating for guys
like Ethan Blackadder and maybe a Tava Tava Nawa off
the bench.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Yeah, well, I think Ethan Blackadder may well have to
come into the... Depends on the makeup of how they
start their loose forward trio. I thought Lakai was good yesterday.
So do you start him again at blindside? Or do
you move him to number eight with Adi out, or
he can play seven? You know, six isn't his usual position.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
No, he starts. Look, I thought Wallace was good as well,
Wallace Atiti. So maybe he starts at eight, and Lakai could,
you could leave him at six potentially with Blackadder at seven.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
It's not the biggest loose forward trio going around, but.
your options are limited when you lose two loose forwards.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, and then we've already lost Anton Cegna, who I
think could have had a big role in the series,
but not to be, obviously, as well. As you say,
Josh Lord likely to come back into the mix. Who
starts at 9 and 10?
Speaker 3 (28:22):
I think it's Rich Moanga time. I think, I always
thought Baltimore would be the juncture that you could make
some changes and potentially bring him back into the mix.
I like the fact the All Blacks have stuck with
that continuity and given Ruben Love every chance. But Richie
Moronga's in the squad for a reason, and you need
to find out where he's at. You're not going to
(28:43):
do that against the Lions.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
I thought.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
It was a makeshift team. He had some moments, a
great cover tackle and one little burst, but it wasn't
vintage Moronga. But he needs a chance at some point,
and I think this is a good chance to give
him a crack at 10.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yeah, I'd probably go with him at 10 as well.
Roy Gard's had, obviously, that injury earlier in the series,
earlier in the tour. Look, Ruttema hasn't been fit for
the last few weeks. Whether they look to spell Roy Gard,
I'm not sure. I would get him to get out again. Yeah,
I think he's hugely influential. I'd be starting him again.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
And the All Blacks do get a break after this.
You can't be changing the whole team. It's still a
test match.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
It's still a test match, and they now have a
must-win scenario because they're steering down the barrel of three
losses in a row after a tenure that had started
so promisingly for Dave Rennie. So they're in must-win territory, really,
this week, aren't they?
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Yeah, and you also, I feel like you need to,
there's poles apart between Roy Gard and the rest I
think we'll see Dylan Pledger eventually come back into the
mix and probably by the World Cup I would expect
it all going well him to prove his fitness and
he'd be my guy off the bench at the World
Cup but Roy Gard gives you I thought he was
(30:02):
great at the weekend he took the ball away from
the ruck to avoid being caught and there was one
telling kick, a massive boot in behind. I thought he
kicked well aerially as well, so he gives you your
best link between backs and forwards, and also Mwanga the
best chance of performing, so I'd like to see him retained.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Yeah, well, it'll be interesting to see what Dave Rooney
does once this team lands in Washington, D.C., and then
on to on to Baltimore. That about does us for
Rugby Direct out of South Africa. Liam, safe travels around
South Africa. Look forward to seeing when you get back home.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Yeah, it's been a pleasure. Thanks for listening. It's been
a great tour. South Africa's a brilliant country and it's
been a captivating test series and just speaking to South
Africans and South African media, even yesterday I was talking
to Mark Kihei and he was saying New Zealand and
South Africa will probably never host another World Cup and
For South Africans, this is the closest that it's going
(31:04):
to get. And I've loved being in a country where
the series, the rugby, has been so engrossing for everyone.
You know, it's been front and centre. Anywhere you go,
people are talking to you about it. We had hotel
staff dropping springbok jerseys off at our doors. There's been
(31:25):
banter everywhere. So you can go to... You can often
go to France even during a World Cup or Washington
and not even know that the rugby's on. But South
Africans love their rugby. They're extremely passionate about it. And
it has been very front of mind for everyone. So
I've loved being here and loved every moment of touring.
(31:45):
And you're a good man. So I always enjoy your company.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Yeah, absolutely. Yep, we'll roll on to Washington, D.C. and Baltimore.
We'll have a podcast for you later in the week.
Not sure what shape it'll take as yet. Might just
be me. talking at you for 15 or so minutes,
so that'd be fun. But we will have something later
on in the week. Thanks to Mark Kelly for producing
Rugby Direct. As always, we're powered by Access Solutions, elevating
(32:11):
you and your business to a higher level.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
For more from Newstalk ZB, listen live, on air, or online.
And keep our shows with you wherever you go, with
our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
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