March 10, 2026 • 54 mins
Your Brain Is Lying To You! w/ Rene Rodriguez
Your subconscious mind is processing 11 million bits of information every second — and it's making most of your decisions before you even know it. In Episode 10, Russell and Jerry welcome one of the most powerful voices in leadership and behavioral neuroscience, Rene Rodriguez, for a conversation that will fundamentally change how you see yourself and the world around you.
Rene is a 30-year veteran of applying neuroscience to real-world leadership and influence, a bestselling author (Amplify Your Influence), and a sought-after keynote speaker who has shared stages with some of the biggest names on the planet.
Together they dig deep into the science of cognitive bias — why your brain isn't seeking truth, it's protecting your identity — and what you can do about it. From self-serving bias to confirmation bias, from the Dunning-Kruger Effect to a CIA spy's perspective trick, this episode is packed with insights you can apply immediately.
You'll walk away knowing:
- Why your past experiences are distorting your present decisions
- How to reframe traumatic memories and change their hold on you
- The step-by-step process for rewiring your subconscious identity
- Why confidence follows courage — never the other way around
As Russell puts it best: "Bias doesn't make you wrong. It makes you unaware." This episode is your first step toward awareness — and awareness is where extraordinary begins.
Guest: René Rodriguez (Amplify Your Influence)
Website: https://www.meetrene.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/learnwithrene
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@learnwithrene
🎧 Listen, learn, and start running with the cheetahs.
Jerry Freishtat
CEO of Wealth Climber | Serial Entrepreneur | Investor | Advisory for Startup Entrepreneurs | Speaker | Author | Committed to innovation, growth, and making a positive impact on the world.
Russell Anderson
Founder, President ACS Creative; Marketing & Design (30+ years of growing brands; global and local)
Serial Entrepreneur, Forever Student of Business - and Life
Buy the Book and Audiobook!
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Intro/Outro Music Credit
Big Thanks to Michael Fath for the use of The Emerald Isle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hva33IEU3SY&list=RDHva33IEU3SY&start_radio=1
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Don't wait for confidence.
(00:01):
Confidence is never a precursor.
Confidence is always the giftthat comes after courage.
And so, well, I just need moreconfidence.
Well, you're your only wayyou're going to do that is
through failure, is through tojust being making horrible
mistakes, showing a little bitof courage to do it anyways.
And then life says, Hey, you didthis good.
Here's an ounce of confidence.
And so when you're thinkingabout that action, you're
actually rewriting, in essence,your memory, you're rewriting
(00:26):
your identity and even, inessence, your behavior, and it's
all being locked in.
And so you're not changing itdirectly, you're subconscious.
You're in essence changingidentity statements, the actions
that you're taking, with thethings that you repeat, the
attached emotions to newexperiences.
You're interrupting these oldpatterns.
You're surrounding yourselfaround the right people, the
(00:46):
right things.
And so that would be the longanswer to a detection.
SPEAKER_02 (01:16):
This podcast is the companion podcast to the book
Run with the Cheetahs, writtenby Jerry Freistadt.
And uh we do these conversationsevery couple of weeks.
We're trying to help you figureout how to grow and get better
and do the things that you needto do to be all you can be.
The author joins me every week,and I'm going to bring him in
(01:37):
here right now.
Jerry, come on in here and sayhello.
SPEAKER_01 (01:39):
Hey guys, how's everybody doing?
Uh, got a very, very specialguest coming on for today.
SPEAKER_02 (01:45):
I'm smiling ear to ear.
I can't wait.
I can't wait till this thinggets going, okay?
But so, but Jerry, you we'reactually going to be talking
about the subconscious today.
And I think most of us know thatthe subconscious is a pretty
important thing.
It runs so many of our bodilyfunctions, et cetera.
But I don't think peopleunderstand that our subconscious
(02:06):
also affects the decisions thatwe're making every day.
It's not just a it's not just acompletely in the background.
It gets in there and gets in theway of some of our rational
thinking.
You've got a pretty good commenton this to get us started here.
Why don't you give us that?
SPEAKER_01 (02:23):
Well, the the reality of it is we have about
in the range of around 80,000subconscious thoughts a day.
And when you have that manysubconscious thoughts, that
translates into essentiallyabout 90% of your decisions are
predetermined by how yoursubconscious mind was previously
(02:45):
programmed.
So if you're not satisfied withthe decisions you're making, the
direction your life's going andthings that are going on, we're
going to discuss today how todig in there and make those
changes in the subconsciousmind.
SPEAKER_02 (02:59):
And Jerry, thank goodness we have some help on
this today, okay?
Thank goodness we have somehelp.
We have got a very, very specialguest with us, and I know we're
both excited about this.
We've got uh Renee Rodriguezwith us.
And Jerry, I'll let you talkabout how you met Renee first,
and then I'll give people alittle background on him.
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
When I wrote my book, you know, I knew that it
was kind of going to lead into,you know, I'm gonna have to do
some, you know, public speaking,might be on some stages, things
along those lines.
And uh, even though in mycompanies over all the years,
you know, I did plenty ofpresentations with employees and
staff, you know, getting on astage and and giving a
presentation uh in front of, youknow, hundreds of people or
(03:38):
however many at a at a businessorganization or whatever it
might be is a whole differentball game uh than talking to
your employees.
So um I started a little searchof um and and kind of how I
covered in my book, you know,about you know the different
layers of people.
I was looking for the alpha lionto learn from.
And I've been through enough offailures with the wrong people
(04:00):
to know that I wanted to cutthat learning curve down.
So I I I go to a lot of events,I just started asking around,
and and this one name just keptcoming up, you know, Renee
Rodriguez.
You know, you guys got to checkout his program, you know.
It's it's incredible.
And then uh the final, you know,thing that happened is I was
down with Coach Michael Burtdown in uh the greatness factory
(04:22):
in uh Nashville, Tennessee, andI was talking to him about it,
and he said, Jerry, ReneeRodriguez is the best at
teaching, uh teaching what is inhis I got his book here, Amplify
Your Influence.
Nice, right?
Nice and I signed up for hiscourse, of course, uh like
(04:43):
anybody, even though I've youknow been around the block a
time or two, you're very nervouswhen you go to something like
that.
And I'm with 10 other people I'dnever met before, and it was a
life-changing experience.
And I was able to take thatwhole weekend that we worked
with Renee, and I have juststeadily been able to develop to
(05:04):
become a better presenter andspeaker, and to essentially
amplify my influence.
SPEAKER_02 (05:09):
Wow, that's fantastic.
Well, let me just read just alittle bit of his bio here so
people know what we're who we'regetting ready to listen to.
Uh, Rene Rodriguez is consideredby many as the leading authority
on leadership and influence.
He's the best-selling author,he's a keynote speaker
frequently, a leadership advisorand transformational speaker
(05:32):
coach.
For the last 30 years, Rene hasbeen researching and applying
behavioral neuroscience to solvesome of the toughest challenges
in leadership, sales, andchange.
As an entrepreneur and CEO ofmultiple companies, Renee
integrates a practical businessapproach that inspires his
(05:54):
audiences and take action.
His audiences describe him aspowerful, thought-provoking, and
authentic.
They say things like, you couldhear a pin drop as everyone was
so captivated.
The result is greater influence,personal transformation, and
immediate results in businessand life by engaging with
(06:16):
courage and grace.
His best-selling book, Jerry,that you just held up, Amplify
Your Influence, can be found onAmazon and at all major
retailers.
This man has spoken and keynotespoke all over the world.
Today we have him with us, andI'm about as excited as a man
could be.
Renee, come on in here and sayhello.
SPEAKER_00 (06:37):
Well, guys, I should have you guys uh do all my
intros.
This is very special.
I appreciate it.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (06:42):
Well, Renee, listen, what a treat.
What a treat to have you.
You know, you and I have nevermet, but I did spend some time
on your website and yoursocials.
I've listened to a couple of thepodcasts and uh just can't wait
to get you in here today andstart talking about this.
Now, I'll say I have spent agood bit of time doing some
research on today's topic,subconscious.
(07:03):
You know, I've gone back to mygrade school days when we
learned about the autonomousnervous system.
You know, your subconscious isdealing with your digestion and
your heart rate and your bloodpressure.
But what I didn't reallyunderstand is that that
subconscious jumps in there intoyour active considerations as
(07:23):
well.
And it can be a problem.
It can be a problem.
And that's what we're going totalk today about today.
We're going to be talking abouthow the subconscious affects
your personal bias.
And uh, you know, I know you'vegot a lot to say about this, and
we'd love to hear you getstarted with us.
SPEAKER_00 (07:41):
Well, it's, I mean, what a fun topic because it's I
think we're all inherentlyinterested in why we do what we
do, why we choose certainthings, why we choose political
parties, why we choose certainmates, why we why some people
perform better than others, whysome people just seem to have an
easier life, why some peoplehave a difficult, more difficult
life, why some have depressionand anxiety, why the list goes
(08:03):
on.
And I we've all heard that termsubconscious.
When you when you get into thethe science world, they don't
typically use the wordsubconscious.
They we usually things saythings like other than
conscious.
And the but it's it's reallywell from a semantic standpoint,
we're all really saying the samething.
And what it's saying is thatthere's only so much that we can
(08:24):
pay attention to.
And what we're really saying,consciousness is really where
our attention resides.
That's what we're conscious of.
And so when we think of thingsthat happen outside of our
conscious awareness, things thatare that would be, let's just
say, things that um uh falloutside of our attention.
Now we're starting to get into amuch deeper understanding of how
(08:47):
we actually function.
And when I tell people, if youwant to understand human
behavior, you have to understandcognitive biases.
And there's hundreds, I thinkit's a little, it might be over
a hundred now, um, maybeapproaching two hundred
cognitive biases.
These are the unconsciousprocesses that really determine
who we are, why we do what wedo, how we decide, and so many
different pieces.
And so it's it's a fun topic anda and and a wide one that we can
(09:09):
we can go deep and far.
SPEAKER_02 (09:11):
Well, you know, just I I picked out four.
Now you say there's over ahundred, so my goodness, I've
left out some good ones.
But but I I've kind of pickedout four basic ones that I think
really could probably deservesome attention.
And and one of them isself-bias.
And my question on self-bias isthat is is that similar to the
(09:32):
beliefs we have about ourselves?
Like, I mean, Jerry, you know,this brings to mind for me, it
brings to me your cardio storyof you telling yourself all your
life that you couldn't docardio.
Is that what self-bias is allabout, Renee?
SPEAKER_00 (09:46):
When you think about self-bias, usually I think we're
talking about the like aself-serving bias.
And it's if you think about howour brains are designed, we I
used to think, and I think we'reall thought that our our brains
are designed, that we act inthis way that we're supposed to,
our brains are supposed to seektruth.
And really, what our brains aremore of protecting our identity
(10:08):
and who we are.
And Chase Hughes says it best.
He said, So if you think about,if your brain is really designed
to protect your identity, inessence, it acts like a like a
defense attorney againstanything attacking your
identity.
And now that's powerful tounderstand, and it gets scary
when you realize, well, whatidentity have I chosen?
Who have I decided to be?
I can't have six-pack abs, Ican't, I can be rich, I can't be
(10:29):
rich, I never can find the rightmate.
These are all identitystatements.
And so self-bias, a lot of timesis self-serving bias.
It's that process of protectingthat identity, if you will.
Um, and a lot of times it doesthat from taking credit for wins
and a lot of times blamingothers for losses.
And so a lot of times we saythat we judge others ourselves
(10:52):
based on our best intentions,but we judge others on their
worst actions.
And so there's a lot ofdifferent ways to look at this.
And um, but a lot of a lot oftimes you can attribute that to
um the function of the ego, andthe ego really exists to protect
us in many ways, but can alsobackfire.
SPEAKER_02 (11:08):
So self-serving uh bias is really the better term
for for this.
SPEAKER_00 (11:14):
Yeah, I think it's it's that that would be the
technical term, if you will.
The but the you know, we cancall it all sorts of things.
I think that without having toget technical, the conversation
is the valid part, right?
That's the that's where thevalue comes in, is what is what
does it mean?
How is it affecting our life?
My world has always been, yeah,understand science and and get
into neuroscience, but what whatdoes it mean to me?
(11:35):
And how do I use it?
How do I use it in business?
How do I use it incommunications?
How do I use it in persuasionselling, everything there?
And so for me, what it means tome is that I'm oftentimes a
little too too easy on myself oreasy on myself and harder on
others.
And maybe I need to um becareful of that because it
(11:55):
definitely will not serve me ingiving me a sense of truth and a
real truth that we're alllooking for.
SPEAKER_02 (12:02):
So when I make when I make the free throw, and
believe me, that would be quitea quite a feat right there for
me to make a free throw.
But if I make a free throw, I'mgonna take tremendous credit for
it.
But if I miss it, I'm gonna talkabout I slipped on the floor.
The floor had a slippery spot init.
Is that me protecting my ego?
SPEAKER_00 (12:20):
Yeah, I think a lot of times, I mean, we nobody
wants to admit that they made amistake.
I mean, we don't typically likemaking the mistake.
And then that there's factorsinvolved in that too.
Is there something to lose?
Are we gonna be embarrassed?
Are we gonna lose a client?
Uh, are we trying to impresssomebody?
There's all sorts of things.
But when there's, and here's thehere's the key.
If we have true psychologicalsafety, meaning we are in an
(12:41):
environment where we're notfearing a loss of anything,
we're not fearing humiliation,ridicule, we can admit that we
made a mistake.
And that that's that becausethere's nothing to lose there.
So really there's nothing toprotect against because there's
no consequence to that level oftruth or that level of honesty.
And so there we do have a lot ofum our executive function of the
(13:03):
brain is really there to makesense of our behavior in
something that fits in line withour values, our identity, our
belief systems, et cetera.
SPEAKER_02 (13:10):
Fantastic.
And I and I did not reallyunderstand that protection
element or the quality of that.
That's that's fantastic.
So if we move on to the nextone, which is experience bias.
Experience bias, you know whatwhere do we go with this?
I mean, I I have what I have anexample of what I think it is,
but I'd love to hear from you.
SPEAKER_00 (13:31):
So the when we think of experience bias, uh, the
there, there's a we just did acourse on this, and so it's it
there's different names for thesame thing.
One of them is called theavailability heuristic.
And it's so with the reason wecall it availability heuristic
or experience bias is becausewhat memory is most available to
me to make sense of what'shappening right now.
(13:52):
And so it's we we think of okay,our past impacts how we're gonna
predict what's happening infront of me.
And so I we go, okay, so we haveto go to our past.
Well, what if you have athousand pieces of information
that are in your past, butwhat's available to you is only
two.
And in those two are verynegative things.
And so you're gonna pull fromthose two negative experiences
(14:14):
to try to make sense of whathappened, what's going on, what
is going to happen, et cetera.
But there were 98 other possibleoutcomes.
And so the bias is what's mostmemorable versus what's most
accurate.
And that's where we have toreally, really be careful that
just because you remember itdoes not necessarily mean that
it's gonna be the most accurate.
And so uh a lot of timestraumatic events become the most
(14:36):
memorable because obviously youryour long-term uh memory is tied
to your values, to traumatic, tohigh stress.
And so when something hits yourvalues, it's your principles, it
does go into long-term memory,which means it's gonna be
available to you.
That's why it's very hardsometimes to let go of those
highly traumatic events.
And so that that experience biasor availability heuristic, if
(14:58):
you will, will be something thatthat informs a lot.
But here's the the crazy part isthat we think that it's the most
accurate.
And that's where we have toreally start questioning things.
SPEAKER_01 (15:08):
Now, let me let me ask you a quick question about
what something you just saidthere.
When you have a traumatic eventor something that is so, you
know, embraced in and a burnpattern and a deep memory in
your brain and your in yourmind, and it comes to you know
fruition at various times laterin life and so forth.
Um, you know, that old saying,Russell and I have talked about
(15:30):
this before, you know, the oldsaying of forgive and forget,
right?
And I always say, yeah, you canforgive, but you can't forget
because biologically it's there.
So I just wanted to get yourinput on since you have that as
part of you, is it that you needto overwrite it with positive
things, you know, to to to toget your subconscious mind going
(15:53):
in a different direction, or isit something that is just always
going to be there and it's justa constant battle you gotta live
with?
SPEAKER_00 (16:00):
Well, what's always there is the meaning you place
to the memory.
And so that's the story, thenarrative that you place on it.
And so you can't change theevents of the past, but you can
renarrate them.
And so when you're thinkingabout reframing something, and
we just did another session hereabout two hours ago here where
we're talking about justreframing in the sense of
managing stress, and you knowthat stress and excitement uh
(16:23):
are this are experience theexact same way in the brain
neurologically.
And so when the frame that somepeople, the story they might put
to it is that I'm so nervous.
I hope I don't mess up.
But the reframe would be, wow,I'm so excited.
This must mean a lot to me.
And my brain's my body's justpreparing me to be successful.
And so, same event, but thestory is what creates the
(16:43):
trauma.
The story is what creates themeaning behind it, which then
drives the reality, ourexperience of reality, if you
will.
And so the the big purpose ofmemory is to derive a lesson to
better protect us for thefuture.
And if we have not, and really,in essence, derive meaning.
If we have not derived anymeaning, that memory will
persist over and over and overagain.
(17:04):
And so a lot of times we helppeople just let's just what what
was the reasoning for that?
What what can you derive fromit?
You can't you can't change it.
There's no value in derivingnegative meaning, but what might
be the beautiful thing that cameout of this death or this event
that happened?
Well, it taught me X, Y, and Zand it made me a better father.
Well, I never had a father, sonow I'm actually a good father
(17:26):
because I know what it's likenot to have one, those types of
things.
And so that's where we get intothe understanding and driving
the meaning behind things, whichwill then help us have a
different experience of it, ifyou will.
And so I wouldn't say the memoryis the bad thing, it's the the
what it triggers within you andthe meaning that you associate
to it.
SPEAKER_02 (17:44):
Wow.
So, Jerry, uh so Jerry, I ifjust to say what I just heard,
if we take those negative eventsand retell the story or or or
the narrative as to what did itreally mean, and and maybe
change it good and bad.
You know, I mean, I I'll tellyou what, I had an experience,
(18:06):
I'll just because this is theexample I was going to give.
And Jerry, you may knowsomething about this.
I had a terrible businesspartner experience in the 80s.
It was so bad, it would not onlywas it financially bad, it was
traumatic to use Renee's term.
It was traumatic, it was awful.
(18:27):
It was a life-ruining sort of athing.
And so I made myself a promise.
I made myself a promise that Ihave carried with me forever.
I said, I will never do anotherpartnership in business.
I'll never do another one.
Okay.
Now I gotta tell you something,and Jerry, you may know this.
That has probably cost memillions of dollars.
(18:48):
Because I've had some amazingopportunities to do business to
people.
And I've just flat out said, no,I'm gonna do that.
So I mean, there is a terribleexperience that I've carried
with me and and probably need tochange the story a little bit,
change the change that meaning alittle bit.
SPEAKER_00 (19:05):
Yeah.
Wow.
And it's it it is one of thosethings that our past does inform
our current, and it's there fora very important reason because
you know, if you remember youturn left and then take a right
and there's a there's a darkarea, but there's a cliff there
and you fell there one time,well, you're gonna remember
that.
And that's actually a survivalmechanism.
And so it serves a its intent isto be a good purpose.
But when you're in business andyou realize, well, we've tried
(19:26):
that strategy before, it didn'twork.
Well, there's a lot of differentvariables on every kind of
strategy.
You know, if you're thinkingabout, you know, uh in
relationships, when my lastpartner used to do X, Y, and Z.
And when someone gets stressed,they're probably gonna do the
same thing.
Or even in leadership, well,we've always done it this way,
right?
And that's what we remember.
There's so many differentthings, but at the end of the
day, all of those requirechange.
(19:47):
And your whole body, youreverything about you is designed
to really resist change again.
And that's what, and and for thepurposes of protection.
At the end of the day, we'retrying to protect ourselves,
which is why psychologicalsafety is so critical.
SPEAKER_02 (19:59):
I mean, I'm gonna go backwards just for a moment.
So this is science, this is adefense mechanism.
SPEAKER_00 (20:05):
Well, defense and protection in some ways are
different, right?
SPEAKER_02 (20:10):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (20:11):
Like if I'm defensive, it's because I don't
want to admit something becauseit's gonna I'm gonna risk
something.
And so I'm gonna protect mywhether some people say their
inner child, their ego, whateverit is they're trying to protect,
maybe they protect ourreputation, which at the end of
the day, defense mechanism,protection, they're very similar
in in how they function.
But I think people think, well,you're being defensive.
And then you're in there, it'slike they attack the fact that
(20:33):
they're being defensive versussaying, I wonder where they feel
threatened.
And when you can have theemotional intelligence enough to
not react to the defensivenessand to say, okay, where do they
feel threatened?
That starts a completelydifferent conversation.
Now, the hard part is you can'tsay, Well, where do you feel
threatened?
Yeah, it's defensive to say, Idon't feel threatened.
SPEAKER_02 (20:54):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (20:54):
No, I was gonna say further admission of that.
And so instead saying, you know,saying there's questions that
you can do to create safety andto create a sense of comfort so
the person can have a much morehonest conversation.
But you have to think context,history.
Has there been a history of lackof trust?
Are you dealing with factorsthat are way beyond your
(21:15):
control?
What can you affect?
And, you know, sometimes I sayuh, you know, sometimes I'll say
something along the lines of,well, obviously something I have
done has offended you and it wasnot my intention.
So I'm gonna say, I'm sorry.
I would love to know what is itthat I've done here that has
caused this reaction.
And so you get a thede-escalation of that nervous
(21:37):
system to be able to feel safeenough to do that.
And a lot of times it's um butagain, it's a slippery slope
because the other person has tobe willing to play too.
SPEAKER_02 (21:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I would say that's a toughcombination actually.
SPEAKER_00 (21:52):
The real strategy is to preempt it before it happens.
And so we we we talk a lot aboutpredict, preempt, prevent the
three Ps.
If I can predict that they mightget defensive or protective
around something like this, or Ican predict that this might be a
threat, what can I do to preemptthat in order to prevent it?
And so if and this happens on inso many different areas.
(22:12):
If I'm I'm speaking at an eventand uh it's an event of maybe
another coach or another speakeror somebody else like me, and
they're trying to sell a productand they're deciding of whether
I'm going to be on stage, Isaid, well, here, let me tell
you something.
Before we even get started, one,I understand the cost and the
stress and the investment ittakes to put on an event.
And the worst thing anybody cando is come on your stage and
(22:35):
sell their products or servicesto your clients.
And so I want to let you knowthat I understand that.
There will be no pitches, noways to get a hold of me.
In fact, all the things thatthey want from me, my
PowerPoints, they're gonna haveto go through you because this
is your event.
And so just wanted to let youknow that I do understand that
dynamic.
And people, and I can't say howmany people have been like, you
know what, Renee?
You're one of the first peopleto actually get that.
(22:56):
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
And that has gotten me, justthat understanding has gotten me
on the number one business stagein the country with the biggest
speakers on the planet, fromDavid Goggins to the Shark Tank
folks to Gary V, you name it,they're all on the same stage.
And it was my ability.
Obviously, I was I had to be agood enough speaker, but my
ability to understand my rolecreated safety for them, knowing
(23:21):
that they didn't have to dealwith another coach trying to
pitch their products to theiraudience.
SPEAKER_02 (23:24):
I love that.
I mean, I just love that.
That's fantastic.
Wow.
Hey, let's move on to uh here'sa touchy one.
Let's move on to people bias.
People bias.
You know, is that is that thesame as profiling or prejudging?
SPEAKER_00 (23:41):
Yeah, it's there's there's when I when I think
about these things, I thinkyou're talking about uh
fundamental attribution error,um, which would be in essence
the very similar to what wetalked about, where we're
attributing judgment to people'scharacter based on what we know
about them.
And so it's very similar to yourexperience bias.
(24:02):
And I think they're kind of, youknow, they're late, they must be
irresponsible to I'm late, yeah,but you know, I was in terrible
traffic.
And, you know, so we we we uh wemake errors in the fundamental
attribution for reason ofcertain behaviors, and we're
kinder to ourselves than we areto others in that in a form of
protection of ourselves.
(24:23):
So I'd say both of those arevery, very similar.
And again, um just differentapplications of how they
function.
SPEAKER_02 (24:29):
So we're not really talking about prejudging people
here by their appearance.
SPEAKER_00 (24:35):
I mean, yeah, I mean, I think that the there's
all sorts of things that go thatpeople who dress that way must
be this way.
Right.
It's whatever visual, whatevercue, whether it's auditory,
experiential, whether it'svisual, people with tattoos must
be this, people that are baldmust be awesome, whatever it is.
It's there's a there's afundamental attribution error
that can happen there.
And but again, the reason wehave it is to protect ourselves.
(24:58):
And last time I saw somebodydressed in that uniform, they
took my family and they shot mychildren, right?
So that uniform immediately willtrigger this.
Last time I saw somebody who wasof this skin color, they did
this and they did that.
The next time I saw a womandoing this, they were this way.
Next time I saw somebody who waswhite and wore a cowboy hat,
they must have done this.
I mean, there's so many thingsthat can trigger these
(25:20):
responses.
And uh again, it's the purposeof it is very well intended.
But in a modern world, it's uhit's something we have to be
really careful with because Ican't tell you how many times I
was wrong.
I'll give you an example.
I was at a uh I was doing atraining, we've had over 250,000
people go through our trainings,and I'm talking about small
(25:40):
groups at a time live.
And I had somebody come in, hewas being a big white beard, he
had this big dude, probably sixfoot four, shirt with a
Confederate flag as big as youcould possibly screen print onto
a shirt.
On the back, it said smart asswhite boy.
Now, immediately I went back tomy past.
I've got a guitar back over herethat was my mother's, who was a
(26:01):
former nun and used to use musicto try to empower uh poor
communities, to try to empowermigrant labor to get out into a
better life.
And the KKK at the time didn'tlike that, so they would harass
my mother.
I was a kid when they were doingthis, so I was around.
They even broke into her car,stabbed her guitar 18 times, um,
and filled it with water.
And so when I see anything thatremotely resembles racism, I
(26:23):
immediately go back to they mustbe a certain way.
Well, by the by about five, sixhours into our session, this guy
was probably one of the mostloving, kind, embracing every
single person from race, gender,skin color, you name it, in the
room.
And everybody loved him.
And I was thinking to myself,I'm like, wow, like I was
convinced this person was acertain way.
(26:45):
And it must just be that maybehe doesn't understand what that
symbolism means to certainpeople.
And there's always a story,whether I like it or not,
whether I want to believe it ornot, there's always a story.
And I think that it is lazy forus to make judgments before we
hear the story.
Light travels faster than sound,so judgments is judgment is much
(27:08):
easier than truly understandingsomebody and who they are.
And so uh we have to be reallycareful of how this one works.
SPEAKER_01 (27:18):
Yeah, I mean, I also think let me just jump in here
real quick.
I mean, I also think that onthis particular topic, this this
bias thing has gotten a lotworse in modern day, you know,
because of social media whereyou know people are just
portrayed a certain way andopinions are are you know
(27:40):
developed in advance.
And um, you know, so Renee,would you would you just you
know elaborate or agree that youknow we're social animals and
and if we can you know interacta little bit more, I think you
could end up with a lot less,you know, of this bias that's
becoming a bigger part of aproblem in society.
SPEAKER_00 (28:02):
We won't do away with the biases, but what's
happening, in my opinion, isthat people are becoming much
more aware that they exist andhow to manipulate them.
And it used to be propaganda wassubtle.
It used to be that you know, itwas subtle, but you knew it was
happening.
It's a pamphlet, it's a flyer,it's a movie, and it's like, oh,
(28:22):
you could identify propaganda.
But we're in a post-propagandacondition right now where it's
not a single place that you canpinpoint it because it permeates
every single piece of media,communication, leaders, uh,
people that we're supposed totrust.
It's happening everywhere.
So, you know, you look at howmany lies have been told to us
by the media, by the government,and you know, without trying to
(28:43):
trigger any of that, it's justit's not even my opinion that
they've been lying.
It's now come out.
They've been lying.
And they're and they do it toprotect us.
And they're lying right nowabout the Epstein file, saying
if we arrest them, you know,societies we know it was going
to collapse.
And it's like, it's like rightin our face.
And so the abuse of those thingsgot to be so blatant, which is
why we don't trust the media.
(29:04):
We say it, we know it, we can'tpinpoint exactly why.
But now we know why.
But yet it still happens.
That's how powerful it is.
It's like I study these biasesnot because I'm immune to them,
I study these because I am justas immune as every anyone else.
And it takes vigor and effortand good people around you and
and intentionality to pullyourself out of this driving
(29:27):
force of how we are wired.
And so understanding them, and Itell people the the the the
Stanley Kubrick is a great quotethat that really illustrates
this point.
This says our ability to talkabout a subject matter can
create the consoling illusionthat we've mastered it, and
which kind of leads you into theDunning-Kruger effect, which is
(29:50):
another bias.
And if you're I don't know ifyou if that was on your list,
but the Dunning Kruger effect,are you guys familiar with that?
SPEAKER_02 (29:57):
I've heard that term, and I think uh I've heard
the term.
SPEAKER_00 (30:01):
Yep.
So if you think, if you thinkabout on an axis, xy axis, and
on the bottom would be yourknowledge, how much knowledge
the further to the right, themore knowledge you have.
But then on the x-axis going upwould be your your confidence.
And what happens is it's veryweird.
It's the lower, the least lessonyou know, the higher the
(30:21):
confidence.
And what happens when you firstlearn something, your confidence
is really, really high.
And then you begin to learnmore, and that confidence dips
really fast into what they callthe valley of despair.
When the more you learn, themore you realize, oh my God, I
really don't know anything aboutthis.
That's right.
And then you keep learning andit starts to turn back up and
you keep learning.
(30:41):
It goes up about halfway,though.
It never goes up past halfwayand it levels off there.
And what it shows is that truewisdom leaves room for other
options.
Certainty is a sure sign ofsomebody not knowing much about
a subject matter.
And this is what I tell my kids,what I tell my clients.
I said, if somebody is certain,it's one of my first indications
(31:01):
that they don't really know whatthey're talking about.
And oh, it's always this way.
I'm like, okay, well, okay.
I've been doing this a long timetoo, and I've seen it happen
many ways.
And I think normally and mostlikely it's here, but there
might be something I'm missing.
And you know this.
Think about the person who says,you know, when they're talking
about something, I said, Well,you know, here's what I've
(31:22):
learned, and this is only myopinion because I know there's
other ways to look at this, butthey then they begin, they go
into that.
What they're doing is they'recreating space for others to
play in that conversation, andversus the person who said,
Well, this is exactly how it is.
Nope, they're always this way.
You just, and and it's it's it'san indication that they're
falling into one of those biaseswhere they're early on, and you
(31:42):
you let's say you've been, uh,for example, somebody, let's say
you've been in a meditationsince you were a kid and you've
been doing it so long you don'ttalk about it anymore.
And somebody in their 50s justfinally got introduced to
meditation and they're like,We've just had this mind-blowing
experience, and now they'retelling everybody about
meditation is everything.
And now I'm cold plunging.
How long have you been coldplunging?
Oh, like two weeks, man.
This is like, it's amazing.
It does this for your body, itdoes that.
(32:04):
And what have you learned aboutwhat it does to the heart and
how many heart attacks it'scaused?
Because when you really get intoit, you realize that for some
people it is phenomenal.
For other people, it's a deathsentence.
Well, that happens through timeand learning, right?
And so there's all sorts ofthings that happen when we don't
(32:24):
have the self-awareness torealize that maybe we're new to
something, et cetera.
But again, another one of thosecognitive biases that creeps
into control how we think.
SPEAKER_02 (32:34):
But you know how you answered Jerry's question if you
go back about five minutes ago,you said we're not gonna get rid
of our biases.
And boy, that is we that'simportant.
I mean, in other words, thatsubconscious, if that's the
right term, or unconscious ornon-conscious, or that that
(32:54):
stuff is there and it's gonnaaffect.
I mean, it's there.
SPEAKER_01 (32:59):
I mean, but Russell, I think that like again, we
always try to give our listenersspecific things and actions,
right, that they can do.
And what Renee just talkedabout, that that rigid,
confident, I'm a hundred percentright about a subject or or or
theory or whatever it might be.
(33:20):
That was that was that I wasthat guy the first half of my
life.
SPEAKER_02 (33:24):
Really?
SPEAKER_01 (33:24):
And right, and and I'm gonna clean up.
Yeah, yeah.
What what what I tell you I tellyou what?
Yeah, what what changed it forme is I learned to question
everything.
That that that's that's thefirst thing that that I learned
to do.
And um, and and that thatenabled that enabled me to at
(33:48):
least listen to somebody I mayadamantly disagree with.
And by the way, there's a lot tolearn, there's a lot to learn
from people that you don't agreewith.
And maybe it's what you learn,and it could be what you learn
not not to do, not necessarilywhat you want to know, right?
So, um, but you know, I youknow, uh I don't think it
(34:09):
retains a you know, opinion onthat.
You know, if you if you questionthings um that you don't know
about, and uh you know, thisalso gets back to you, Russell,
the whole thing about living afact-based logical life versus
an emotional opinion-based life,right?
If you live a fact-based logicallife, you're always questioning
(34:30):
everything, even things and andand and all of us, all of us can
go back.
There's probably a 50 or 100times where you were a hundred
percent sure you were rightabout something and you found
out, oh my God, I had it wrong,right?
And that that that humbles youas you get older, and that gives
you the ability to listen andask.
(34:51):
And that that that that's what'sworked for me.
And I think if people can atleast start questioning views
and opinions and and and thingsthat you know you can you can
learn on a consistent basis.
Um, and it is true, myconfidence level is is probably
not what it was before.
Yes, but my my contentmentknowledge is way better.
SPEAKER_02 (35:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:16):
Well, I think you're you're you have a different goal
now.
You want truth more than morethan to be right.
And that's the the that seekingof truth is different.
And you have to remember thereason I said that it won't go
away because cognitive biasesare the shortcut to understand
life.
We have to have them becauseyou're we're taking in quite
(35:37):
literally 11 million bits ofinformation per second.
That's 11 million, 11 million,11 million, 11 million.
And you cannot navigate 11million bits of information.
Your body can only process 30,40 to 50 of them.
And within that, we can onlyremember about seven to nine.
And so to get to navigate allthat stuff, your body's got to
(35:58):
make some assumptions along theway.
And this is why we talk about inthat narrative gap.
When when we when we have a gapin our understanding, your brain
is gonna fill it in throughcognitive bias, through past
experience, confirmation bias,negativity bias, Dunning
Krueger, you name it, it's gonnafill it in to make a seamless
experience of reality.
And so when we start realizingand why we question our own
(36:18):
reality is because we got toquestion the story in which that
we are telling ourselves.
That is the quickest way tofigure out what reality are you
creating?
Well, what story am I telling?
And that means what explanationam I giving to this?
And then I start going, well,where did that come from?
And you breadcrumb your wayback.
Well, it came from I used to gothrough this one time.
Well, how many times have youdone that?
Once or twice?
Wonderful.
Do you think there might beother uh things out there that
(36:40):
are bigger than just once ortwice?
And then once you just knowthat, you can say, Well, this is
what I'm assuming is right now,but I'm open to other ideas.
I would love to hear somethingelse.
I've studied this prettyheavily, but I've also known
that I know this enough to knowthat I could be wrong about some
of these things.
So talk to me.
And now this collaborativeexperience comes in.
And, you know, uh AndrewBustamante, who's a former CIA
(37:00):
spy, says that his number oneCIA trick is to move away from
pers to move away fromperception and into perspective.
Because if everyone operates outof their perception, the only
perception that I can operatefrom is my own.
And if I know that there aremultiple perceptions in the
world or other perspectives,then there is no tactical
(37:21):
advantage to operating from myperception.
I have to move into perspectiveand understand the other
perspectives, even if they'reagainst what I believe, think,
and identify with.
And so now I've got a tacticaladvantage because I know how
everybody else in this isthinking, and I have a better
view of the problem, situation,opportunity, et cetera, so that
I can better make betterdecisions to get better
outcomes.
And so those biases kind of pullus in, and our bodies always
(37:43):
pull us into our own perception,our own view of the world.
So we have to fight not onlybiologically, but neurologically
to get out of that function tobe able to get a better view of
what's happening in the planet,the world, my reality, whatever
you want to call it.
SPEAKER_02 (37:56):
Whoa, tough stuff.
You know, I think where we, Ithink some of what you just
covered actually touches on andhits the fourth bias that I was
going to talk about, which isconfirmation bias.
And, you know, it's it's this isone, I just can't stand this.
It's when people are justseeking information that
(38:19):
supports what they alreadybelieve, not being open to new
perspective.
What a great word that was.
SPEAKER_01 (38:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (38:29):
And we see this all the time.
SPEAKER_01 (38:32):
Yeah, that that's why seeking when people go to
seek advice, they they'reseeking what they want to hear,
not what they need to hear.
And they're generally going toask somebody who they, you know,
that trusts them and there's aback and forth.
It's almost like a friend or afamily member or something like
that.
And and generally, those are theworst people to seek advice from
(38:52):
because they're all inprotection mode, right?
They don't want to see anythingbad happen to you.
So, you know, you gotta, youknow, got to escape that, you
know, and understand that youknow, getting seeking advice on
a topic or an issue, um, justbecause somebody has experience
in one area certainly doesn'tmean they're an expert in
another area.
SPEAKER_00 (39:10):
So I think that that that that's something that uh
well you just said was thefundamental of the fundamental
attribution error.
Just because they're they'reexpert in one does not mean
they're an expert in another.
See how these all things theyoverlap, which is what makes it
fun.
You know, if you think about thethe confirmation bias, and it's
like our brains arepattern-seeking, pattern
(39:31):
recognition machines.
And the the scary part aboutconfirmation bias is when we
feel self-righteous in it.
Um, I get an argument aboutpolitics with somebody about it.
So-and-so is a bad person.
They go, really?
Are you sure?
And I start going to Google tofind all the negative things
about this person.
And then I find some things thatmight be good and what they did,
(39:52):
and I just say, that's not whatyou're exactly.
You see what I'm talking about?
This guy is.
Exactly.
And but I also, but I'm drivenby this self-righteous, um,
probably would be called uh someexotic principles-based
exoneration, if you will, of Ifeel exonerated from this based
on my principles of truth andjustice.
(40:14):
And I'm gonna ignore all theseother things that are happening
so that I can prove myselfright.
Now, you might be right, or youmight have fallen into all sorts
of other things that arehappening.
And so, like, what the reallythe true solution here is to be
forever curious and open.
And there's a, you know, and Ithink the solutions to these
(40:36):
things are found in philosophy,which is wild.
There's a book that I have overon the shelf, it's uh an
autobiography of a yogi.
I read it at 18, and in therethe one of the first stories it
shared was that it said that thestudent was trying to confuse
the master with asking toughphilosophical questions.
And the master quietly respondedby saying, My my child, the
(41:00):
truth is afraid of no questions.
And it's like, man, oh, that'sgreat.
If I truly am a seeker of truth,then I should be not scared of
any question.
And if I'm scared of a question,then I must not be seeking
truth.
I must be seeking confirmation.
(41:22):
And go if you apply that sameprinciple to the media or to
politics, if success requires asuppression of some information,
Chase Hughes would call that apsy-op.
And he's the all he's the expertin that arena.
And so if I'm and so maybethere's a psyop that I'm doing
(41:44):
on myself.
We engage in psy-ops on thepeople around us, making sure
that they believe what webelieve because we what we
believe is right, what webelieve is the best thing for
the world.
And so now there's a moral, um,moral frame that we're trying to
put on this and moraljustification to our
psychological manipulation ofthose around us, instead of just
(42:06):
letting truth happen.
And as I say this, I can thinkof 30 times that I've done this.
And I'm going, man, am I doing apsyop here?
I mean, it's like it is one ofthose things that you have to
constantly question yourself.
You have to constantly reflect,you have to engage in honest
contemplation to sit in front ofa mirror and look.
Am I doing the right thing?
(42:27):
Am I a good person?
Was I good today?
No different than I thinksomebody asked themselves every
night after they supposedlycreated this earth.
Was it good?
Did I do good?
Contemplation.
One of the highest forms ofprayer there is.
And if he did good, he sleptwell.
And I think if we can ask thatof ourselves, did I do good
today?
Was I good?
Then maybe we'll sleep a littlebit better.
SPEAKER_02 (42:47):
Yep.
So if someone is just waking upto all of this new information
about how important I love yourcognitive biases word.
I love that phrase, howimportant all of that is and how
it affects us.
I think you just gave us theanswers as to what you're
(43:09):
supposed to do with it.
But if you could repeat just acouple of here, I'm waking up
like me.
I'm waking up to this right now.
I'm hearing you andunderstanding how it's affecting
everything I'm doing.
How do I get what do I what do Ido tomorrow?
SPEAKER_01 (43:25):
Yeah, there's a general lack of awareness that
people have.
So if you if you're you knowwatching this podcast and you're
you're learning and hearing thisfor the first time, this is the
perfect example.
Be open to listening and and andthe advice and the information
that you're getting because mostof the people that are biased in
however, you know, in 30, 40years of how you were raised,
(43:48):
your environment, everythingthat you were around, you know,
it's hard, very hard to go, waita second.
Maybe this isn't, you know, thelife for me, or maybe this
isn't, you know, the the paththat I'm I've I was supposed to
go down.
So, you know, I I just thinkthat most people in in in a lot
of the discussions I've had andpeople I've met um and tried to
(44:11):
help um there there's it startswith awareness.
They're not even aware of of oftheir biases or that they even
have biases.
So that's Jerry listen to listento this.
SPEAKER_02 (44:23):
I mean that's so perfect.
Here's the note I made here'sthe note I made for the end of
this I said bias doesn't makeyou wrong it makes you unaware
and awareness is where wherereal performance begins.
So this you're right it's whereit's our old friend
self-awareness.
It's our old friendself-awareness.
SPEAKER_01 (44:44):
Well you can't get away from it can you my goodness
uh jerry do you have anyquestions is that right the
number one skill in leadershipwow all right uh I have not read
it but it'll be on it'll be inmy hands tomorrow my goodness
yeah Jerry do you have anyquestions for this is uh first
(45:05):
off thank you sir thank you sovery much amazing amazing stuff
Jerry do you have any questionsfor Renee um I I think we've
pretty much covered you knowmost of most of the uh the
topics of you know the the wholeawareness bias thing um you know
the only thing I would say is isum or my only question my last
(45:26):
question is is that you know howhow does somebody go about
changing their subconsciousthoughts you know how what's the
process I know I know it's amajor battle it's it's stuff
that's been programmed in therefor year after year after year
and you know my my view of it isis that the only way you could
(45:48):
change things is throughregimented actions that
reprogram you know theinformation.
SPEAKER_00 (45:53):
But I'd love to hear from you you know the the
scientific side of that you knowit's a it's a it's a deep
question when you think abouthow do I change my subconscious
you're really trying to changenervous system responses and
automatic beliefs emotionalassociations to identity based
patterns even habits that tendto just loop over and over and
(46:16):
over again.
And so it's we think of thesubconscious as sort of this
mystical mystical thing, but itreally just runs on what's most
familiar if that makes sense.
And so you you you you don'tfight it per se in my sense.
I think you just you want tolike in essence change um really
(46:38):
replace the old patterns and sothe first look is to really say
how do I identify what is whatwhat what how do I identify
myself am I somebody who is ahard worker am I somebody who is
loyal am I somebody you know I'mbad with money I'm not confident
I'm not creative well those areall identity statements and when
you say those identitystatements and when you say who
(47:00):
am I well pay attention to whatyou say right pay attention to
what you say and always listento what people repeat because
what people repeat are thingsthat they value and also things
that they identify with andthose identities they will spend
their life protecting them andyou can and when you get into
manipulation you get into what'scalled weaponizing the cognitive
dissonance meaning you canweaponize them against them.
(47:21):
If somebody if somebody believesthat they're honest and they
repeat that and if I needed tocrawl under their skin I would
just say you know what you're Ican't believe you lied to me.
You weren't honest with me aboutthis.
And there they would immediatelyturn on and it's you know it's
also called emotional blackmail.
I'm I'm blackmailing youemotionally and and controlling
you that way.
(47:42):
And so the purpose of evenaffirmations done in a um action
based format is very powerfulbecause you start saying these
things out loud.
And so a lot of times it's hardto really control what we say.
So if I'm a bad leader I'd sayI'm learning to lead you know I
(48:02):
I'm not good with money.
Well I'm I'm becomingfinancially disciplined and so
um I don't speak real clearlyversus you know I've really I've
come to learn how to speak moreclearly over the last few
months.
And so if you think about theidentity in motion identity in
words and thoughts it's it'spowerful.
And so then of course then youhave to engage in repetition of
(48:23):
that emotion.
So when you repeat emotionrepeat the identity it's in
essence re repetition andemotion equals installation is
another way of thinking aboutit.
Love it.
So you're trying to install anew operating system and so uh
to me I think writing down youridentity statement is going to
be a powerful thing and thenattaching that emotion to that
(48:44):
identity statement.
And once you've written it downyou've attached the emotion how
do you visualize what it lookslike what do you visualize life
if you don't do it?
Because you got to have thatthat stick you know the carrot
and the stick are bothmotivators.
But what does life look like andbe vivid about what it looks
like the failure and the thingsthat you believe.
Jim Rowan was great and said,you know, what if you bought off
on the wrong plan and what ifyou engage in that plan for two
(49:06):
to three five years what wouldyour life look like and I'm like
oh my God I I don't even want toknow what my life would look
like.
And so you when you look at thatyou say okay well what does it
look like how do I write it downand then how do I start living
it on a daily basis?
And so then you got to go inthrough the third piece I might
even say would be how do youinterrupt the old patterns when
they're gonna creep up on youbecause there are a lot of them
(49:26):
are subconscious, unconscioushow do you have people around
you that do that you know ohthis never works for me.
And then somebody says hold on asecond you know the you might
want to ask yourself well isthis objectively true what do I
what do I categorically know tobe true at the moment?
Right?
And that is a thing you can usewith the media you can do
everything.
And then what I know to be true,what else could be true is
(49:48):
another way of thinking thatnext question and what would the
person I'm becoming think aboutwhat I just said and so Joe
Rogan had a great example.
He said pretend that you are ina major motion picture of the
biggest comeback in history andyou are the main character.
(50:08):
You've been through hell what'syour next move and it's like oh
man what would that characterdo?
And you think of yourselfoutside of yourself and it's
easier not to get wrapped upwell they would do this I said
well they'll go do that.
That's that thing that you do.
And I think the fourth one isthe one that um really was
drilled into me by uh a goodclient friend his name is Nico
Vance and he he's really amasterful of mastering and
(50:34):
really designing yourunconscious mind and it's about
upgrading your environment andreally managing your your visual
environment.
He went through I go what whenhe did this I go what do you
mean by that?
And he looked around he goes youwant my honest opinion I said
yeah he goes there's nothingaround your office that reminds
you of your goals there'snothing that reminds you I see
camera equipment, lighting,studios, books, but nothing that
reminds you of your goals.
(50:55):
I'm like whoa okay that's reallya big one.
And so really taking a look atyour environment but then also
going past that and say okay whodo you spend your time with?
What are you consuming on socialmedia?
I mean take an honest in inputon social media because I
promise you when you look atyour screen time and then you
look at your watch history andlook at the garbage that you may
have been watching that isprogramming your subconscious
(51:18):
that is helping you identify andcreate and triggering your
reticularly activating systemwhich is at charge of your
attention and focus on what tolook for familiarity patterns
everything like that.
So if you're hearing readingabout aliens all the time you're
gonna see alien stuff everywhereand then you're gonna start
thinking about that.
What conversations aredominating your day and then
what in essence what evidence isyour brain consuming and
(51:40):
absorbing on a daily basis?
And so you got to surroundyourself if you want new new
thinking got to surroundyourself new people new
information new things likethat.
And then I might even say actbefore you feel ready.
Don't wait for confidence.
Confidence is never a precursorconfidence is always the gift
that comes after courage.
And so well I just need moreconfidence.
(52:02):
Well you're your only way you'regonna do that is through failure
is through to just being makinghorrible mistakes and showing a
little bit of courage to do itanyways and then life says hey
you did this good.
Here's an ounce of confidenceand so when you're thinking
about that action you'reactually rewrite rewriting in
essence your memory your your umyou're rewriting your identity
and even in essence yourbehavior and it's all being
(52:23):
locked in.
And so you're not changing itdirectly your subconscious
you're in essence changingidentity statements the actions
that you're taking with thethings that you repeat the
attached emotions and newexperiences you're interrupting
these old patterns you'resurrounding yourself around the
right people the right thingsand so that would be the long
answer to a deep question.
SPEAKER_02 (52:45):
Unbelievable stuff.
Oh my goodness unbelievableladies and gentlemen any of you
listening to this today I knowyou will have gotten a lot out
of this this is a fantasticpresentation by a brilliant
individual Renee we thank you sovery much from the bottom of our
(53:06):
hearts for what you've broughtto us today.
It's just been fantastic.
SPEAKER_01 (53:11):
Really appreciated thank you guys it's been an
honor to be here what greatquestions too I think we're
gonna I think we're gonna yeahgo ahead Jerry I was just saying
that you know at as all of ourlisteners know you know we don't
endorse anything of we there'sno financial component to our
podcast or anything else and uhbut due to my personal
experience with Renee and andand how just absolutely amazing
(53:32):
the program was I just wouldlike Renee to you know just how
how can people get a hold ofyou?
Just let let them know that uhyou know if someone wants to
change their life in a positivedirection I can't think of
anybody that uh look at you isis is better.
SPEAKER_02 (53:47):
Look at you I love it.
I'm gonna put all your socialsin the show notes I'm gonna put
links to your website I'll I'llI'll take care of you real good
in the show notes for people uhbecause it's just been a it's
been a fantastic experience.
I'm very very grateful for yourparticipation.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00 (54:03):
Well you guys you guys asked some great questions
and it was fun it was fun to digdig a little deeper on this one
so it was good.
SPEAKER_02 (54:08):
Really appreciate it and please please say thank you
to your assistant Jenny too shewas wonderful to work with and
setting all this up she was veryvery very helpful.
So Jerry you got any last wordsfor us today Jerry?
SPEAKER_01 (54:19):
No we are good to go great session thanks guys gonna
get a get a lot going to get alot of follow up on this one.
SPEAKER_00 (54:26):
Renee thank you very much here.
SPEAKER_02 (54:29):
Okay real good we'll talk to you jerry talk to you
soon goodbye everybody thank youso much
Don't wait for confidence.
(00:01):
Confidence is never a precursor.
Confidence is always the giftthat comes after courage.
And so, well, I just need moreconfidence.
Well, you're your only wayyou're going to do that is
through failure, is through tojust being making horrible
mistakes, showing a little bitof courage to do it anyways.
And then life says, Hey, you didthis good.
Here's an ounce of confidence.
And so when you're thinkingabout that action, you're
actually rewriting, in essence,your memory, you're rewriting
(00:26):
your identity and even, inessence, your behavior, and it's
all being locked in.
And so you're not changing itdirectly, you're subconscious.
You're in essence changingidentity statements, the actions
that you're taking, with thethings that you repeat, the
attached emotions to newexperiences.
You're interrupting these oldpatterns.
You're surrounding yourselfaround the right people, the
(00:46):
right things.
And so that would be the longanswer to a detection.
SPEAKER_02 (01:16):
This podcast is the companion podcast to the book
Run with the Cheetahs, writtenby Jerry Freistadt.
And uh we do these conversationsevery couple of weeks.
We're trying to help you figureout how to grow and get better
and do the things that you needto do to be all you can be.
The author joins me every week,and I'm going to bring him in
(01:37):
here right now.
Jerry, come on in here and sayhello.
SPEAKER_01 (01:39):
Hey guys, how's everybody doing?
Uh, got a very, very specialguest coming on for today.
SPEAKER_02 (01:45):
I'm smiling ear to ear.
I can't wait.
I can't wait till this thinggets going, okay?
But so, but Jerry, you we'reactually going to be talking
about the subconscious today.
And I think most of us know thatthe subconscious is a pretty
important thing.
It runs so many of our bodilyfunctions, et cetera.
But I don't think peopleunderstand that our subconscious
(02:06):
also affects the decisions thatwe're making every day.
It's not just a it's not just acompletely in the background.
It gets in there and gets in theway of some of our rational
thinking.
You've got a pretty good commenton this to get us started here.
Why don't you give us that?
SPEAKER_01 (02:23):
Well, the the reality of it is we have about
in the range of around 80,000subconscious thoughts a day.
And when you have that manysubconscious thoughts, that
translates into essentiallyabout 90% of your decisions are
predetermined by how yoursubconscious mind was previously
(02:45):
programmed.
So if you're not satisfied withthe decisions you're making, the
direction your life's going andthings that are going on, we're
going to discuss today how todig in there and make those
changes in the subconsciousmind.
SPEAKER_02 (02:59):
And Jerry, thank goodness we have some help on
this today, okay?
Thank goodness we have somehelp.
We have got a very, very specialguest with us, and I know we're
both excited about this.
We've got uh Renee Rodriguezwith us.
And Jerry, I'll let you talkabout how you met Renee first,
and then I'll give people alittle background on him.
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
When I wrote my book, you know, I knew that it
was kind of going to lead into,you know, I'm gonna have to do
some, you know, public speaking,might be on some stages, things
along those lines.
And uh, even though in mycompanies over all the years,
you know, I did plenty ofpresentations with employees and
staff, you know, getting on astage and and giving a
presentation uh in front of, youknow, hundreds of people or
(03:38):
however many at a at a businessorganization or whatever it
might be is a whole differentball game uh than talking to
your employees.
So um I started a little searchof um and and kind of how I
covered in my book, you know,about you know the different
layers of people.
I was looking for the alpha lionto learn from.
And I've been through enough offailures with the wrong people
(04:00):
to know that I wanted to cutthat learning curve down.
So I I I go to a lot of events,I just started asking around,
and and this one name just keptcoming up, you know, Renee
Rodriguez.
You know, you guys got to checkout his program, you know.
It's it's incredible.
And then uh the final, you know,thing that happened is I was
down with Coach Michael Burtdown in uh the greatness factory
(04:22):
in uh Nashville, Tennessee, andI was talking to him about it,
and he said, Jerry, ReneeRodriguez is the best at
teaching, uh teaching what is inhis I got his book here, Amplify
Your Influence.
Nice, right?
Nice and I signed up for hiscourse, of course, uh like
(04:43):
anybody, even though I've youknow been around the block a
time or two, you're very nervouswhen you go to something like
that.
And I'm with 10 other people I'dnever met before, and it was a
life-changing experience.
And I was able to take thatwhole weekend that we worked
with Renee, and I have juststeadily been able to develop to
(05:04):
become a better presenter andspeaker, and to essentially
amplify my influence.
SPEAKER_02 (05:09):
Wow, that's fantastic.
Well, let me just read just alittle bit of his bio here so
people know what we're who we'regetting ready to listen to.
Uh, Rene Rodriguez is consideredby many as the leading authority
on leadership and influence.
He's the best-selling author,he's a keynote speaker
frequently, a leadership advisorand transformational speaker
(05:32):
coach.
For the last 30 years, Rene hasbeen researching and applying
behavioral neuroscience to solvesome of the toughest challenges
in leadership, sales, andchange.
As an entrepreneur and CEO ofmultiple companies, Renee
integrates a practical businessapproach that inspires his
(05:54):
audiences and take action.
His audiences describe him aspowerful, thought-provoking, and
authentic.
They say things like, you couldhear a pin drop as everyone was
so captivated.
The result is greater influence,personal transformation, and
immediate results in businessand life by engaging with
(06:16):
courage and grace.
His best-selling book, Jerry,that you just held up, Amplify
Your Influence, can be found onAmazon and at all major
retailers.
This man has spoken and keynotespoke all over the world.
Today we have him with us, andI'm about as excited as a man
could be.
Renee, come on in here and sayhello.
SPEAKER_00 (06:37):
Well, guys, I should have you guys uh do all my
intros.
This is very special.
I appreciate it.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (06:42):
Well, Renee, listen, what a treat.
What a treat to have you.
You know, you and I have nevermet, but I did spend some time
on your website and yoursocials.
I've listened to a couple of thepodcasts and uh just can't wait
to get you in here today andstart talking about this.
Now, I'll say I have spent agood bit of time doing some
research on today's topic,subconscious.
(07:03):
You know, I've gone back to mygrade school days when we
learned about the autonomousnervous system.
You know, your subconscious isdealing with your digestion and
your heart rate and your bloodpressure.
But what I didn't reallyunderstand is that that
subconscious jumps in there intoyour active considerations as
(07:23):
well.
And it can be a problem.
It can be a problem.
And that's what we're going totalk today about today.
We're going to be talking abouthow the subconscious affects
your personal bias.
And uh, you know, I know you'vegot a lot to say about this, and
we'd love to hear you getstarted with us.
SPEAKER_00 (07:41):
Well, it's, I mean, what a fun topic because it's I
think we're all inherentlyinterested in why we do what we
do, why we choose certainthings, why we choose political
parties, why we choose certainmates, why we why some people
perform better than others, whysome people just seem to have an
easier life, why some peoplehave a difficult, more difficult
life, why some have depressionand anxiety, why the list goes
(08:03):
on.
And I we've all heard that termsubconscious.
When you when you get into thethe science world, they don't
typically use the wordsubconscious.
They we usually things saythings like other than
conscious.
And the but it's it's reallywell from a semantic standpoint,
we're all really saying the samething.
And what it's saying is thatthere's only so much that we can
(08:24):
pay attention to.
And what we're really saying,consciousness is really where
our attention resides.
That's what we're conscious of.
And so when we think of thingsthat happen outside of our
conscious awareness, things thatare that would be, let's just
say, things that um uh falloutside of our attention.
Now we're starting to get into amuch deeper understanding of how
(08:47):
we actually function.
And when I tell people, if youwant to understand human
behavior, you have to understandcognitive biases.
And there's hundreds, I thinkit's a little, it might be over
a hundred now, um, maybeapproaching two hundred
cognitive biases.
These are the unconsciousprocesses that really determine
who we are, why we do what wedo, how we decide, and so many
different pieces.
And so it's it's a fun topic anda and and a wide one that we can
(09:09):
we can go deep and far.
SPEAKER_02 (09:11):
Well, you know, just I I picked out four.
Now you say there's over ahundred, so my goodness, I've
left out some good ones.
But but I I've kind of pickedout four basic ones that I think
really could probably deservesome attention.
And and one of them isself-bias.
And my question on self-bias isthat is is that similar to the
(09:32):
beliefs we have about ourselves?
Like, I mean, Jerry, you know,this brings to mind for me, it
brings to me your cardio storyof you telling yourself all your
life that you couldn't docardio.
Is that what self-bias is allabout, Renee?
SPEAKER_00 (09:46):
When you think about self-bias, usually I think we're
talking about the like aself-serving bias.
And it's if you think about howour brains are designed, we I
used to think, and I think we'reall thought that our our brains
are designed, that we act inthis way that we're supposed to,
our brains are supposed to seektruth.
And really, what our brains aremore of protecting our identity
(10:08):
and who we are.
And Chase Hughes says it best.
He said, So if you think about,if your brain is really designed
to protect your identity, inessence, it acts like a like a
defense attorney againstanything attacking your
identity.
And now that's powerful tounderstand, and it gets scary
when you realize, well, whatidentity have I chosen?
Who have I decided to be?
I can't have six-pack abs, Ican't, I can be rich, I can't be
(10:29):
rich, I never can find the rightmate.
These are all identitystatements.
And so self-bias, a lot of timesis self-serving bias.
It's that process of protectingthat identity, if you will.
Um, and a lot of times it doesthat from taking credit for wins
and a lot of times blamingothers for losses.
And so a lot of times we saythat we judge others ourselves
(10:52):
based on our best intentions,but we judge others on their
worst actions.
And so there's a lot ofdifferent ways to look at this.
And um, but a lot of a lot oftimes you can attribute that to
um the function of the ego, andthe ego really exists to protect
us in many ways, but can alsobackfire.
SPEAKER_02 (11:08):
So self-serving uh bias is really the better term
for for this.
SPEAKER_00 (11:14):
Yeah, I think it's it's that that would be the
technical term, if you will.
The but the you know, we cancall it all sorts of things.
I think that without having toget technical, the conversation
is the valid part, right?
That's the that's where thevalue comes in, is what is what
does it mean?
How is it affecting our life?
My world has always been, yeah,understand science and and get
into neuroscience, but what whatdoes it mean to me?
(11:35):
And how do I use it?
How do I use it in business?
How do I use it incommunications?
How do I use it in persuasionselling, everything there?
And so for me, what it means tome is that I'm oftentimes a
little too too easy on myself oreasy on myself and harder on
others.
And maybe I need to um becareful of that because it
(11:55):
definitely will not serve me ingiving me a sense of truth and a
real truth that we're alllooking for.
SPEAKER_02 (12:02):
So when I make when I make the free throw, and
believe me, that would be quitea quite a feat right there for
me to make a free throw.
But if I make a free throw, I'mgonna take tremendous credit for
it.
But if I miss it, I'm gonna talkabout I slipped on the floor.
The floor had a slippery spot init.
Is that me protecting my ego?
SPEAKER_00 (12:20):
Yeah, I think a lot of times, I mean, we nobody
wants to admit that they made amistake.
I mean, we don't typically likemaking the mistake.
And then that there's factorsinvolved in that too.
Is there something to lose?
Are we gonna be embarrassed?
Are we gonna lose a client?
Uh, are we trying to impresssomebody?
There's all sorts of things.
But when there's, and here's thehere's the key.
If we have true psychologicalsafety, meaning we are in an
(12:41):
environment where we're notfearing a loss of anything,
we're not fearing humiliation,ridicule, we can admit that we
made a mistake.
And that that's that becausethere's nothing to lose there.
So really there's nothing toprotect against because there's
no consequence to that level oftruth or that level of honesty.
And so there we do have a lot ofum our executive function of the
(13:03):
brain is really there to makesense of our behavior in
something that fits in line withour values, our identity, our
belief systems, et cetera.
SPEAKER_02 (13:10):
Fantastic.
And I and I did not reallyunderstand that protection
element or the quality of that.
That's that's fantastic.
So if we move on to the nextone, which is experience bias.
Experience bias, you know whatwhere do we go with this?
I mean, I I have what I have anexample of what I think it is,
but I'd love to hear from you.
SPEAKER_00 (13:31):
So the when we think of experience bias, uh, the
there, there's a we just did acourse on this, and so it's it
there's different names for thesame thing.
One of them is called theavailability heuristic.
And it's so with the reason wecall it availability heuristic
or experience bias is becausewhat memory is most available to
me to make sense of what'shappening right now.
(13:52):
And so it's we we think of okay,our past impacts how we're gonna
predict what's happening infront of me.
And so I we go, okay, so we haveto go to our past.
Well, what if you have athousand pieces of information
that are in your past, butwhat's available to you is only
two.
And in those two are verynegative things.
And so you're gonna pull fromthose two negative experiences
(14:14):
to try to make sense of whathappened, what's going on, what
is going to happen, et cetera.
But there were 98 other possibleoutcomes.
And so the bias is what's mostmemorable versus what's most
accurate.
And that's where we have toreally, really be careful that
just because you remember itdoes not necessarily mean that
it's gonna be the most accurate.
And so uh a lot of timestraumatic events become the most
(14:36):
memorable because obviously youryour long-term uh memory is tied
to your values, to traumatic, tohigh stress.
And so when something hits yourvalues, it's your principles, it
does go into long-term memory,which means it's gonna be
available to you.
That's why it's very hardsometimes to let go of those
highly traumatic events.
And so that that experience biasor availability heuristic, if
(14:58):
you will, will be something thatthat informs a lot.
But here's the the crazy part isthat we think that it's the most
accurate.
And that's where we have toreally start questioning things.
SPEAKER_01 (15:08):
Now, let me let me ask you a quick question about
what something you just saidthere.
When you have a traumatic eventor something that is so, you
know, embraced in and a burnpattern and a deep memory in
your brain and your in yourmind, and it comes to you know
fruition at various times laterin life and so forth.
Um, you know, that old saying,Russell and I have talked about
(15:30):
this before, you know, the oldsaying of forgive and forget,
right?
And I always say, yeah, you canforgive, but you can't forget
because biologically it's there.
So I just wanted to get yourinput on since you have that as
part of you, is it that you needto overwrite it with positive
things, you know, to to to toget your subconscious mind going
(15:53):
in a different direction, or isit something that is just always
going to be there and it's justa constant battle you gotta live
with?
SPEAKER_00 (16:00):
Well, what's always there is the meaning you place
to the memory.
And so that's the story, thenarrative that you place on it.
And so you can't change theevents of the past, but you can
renarrate them.
And so when you're thinkingabout reframing something, and
we just did another session hereabout two hours ago here where
we're talking about justreframing in the sense of
managing stress, and you knowthat stress and excitement uh
(16:23):
are this are experience theexact same way in the brain
neurologically.
And so when the frame that somepeople, the story they might put
to it is that I'm so nervous.
I hope I don't mess up.
But the reframe would be, wow,I'm so excited.
This must mean a lot to me.
And my brain's my body's justpreparing me to be successful.
And so, same event, but thestory is what creates the
(16:43):
trauma.
The story is what creates themeaning behind it, which then
drives the reality, ourexperience of reality, if you
will.
And so the the big purpose ofmemory is to derive a lesson to
better protect us for thefuture.
And if we have not, and really,in essence, derive meaning.
If we have not derived anymeaning, that memory will
persist over and over and overagain.
(17:04):
And so a lot of times we helppeople just let's just what what
was the reasoning for that?
What what can you derive fromit?
You can't you can't change it.
There's no value in derivingnegative meaning, but what might
be the beautiful thing that cameout of this death or this event
that happened?
Well, it taught me X, Y, and Zand it made me a better father.
Well, I never had a father, sonow I'm actually a good father
(17:26):
because I know what it's likenot to have one, those types of
things.
And so that's where we get intothe understanding and driving
the meaning behind things, whichwill then help us have a
different experience of it, ifyou will.
And so I wouldn't say the memoryis the bad thing, it's the the
what it triggers within you andthe meaning that you associate
to it.
SPEAKER_02 (17:44):
Wow.
So, Jerry, uh so Jerry, I ifjust to say what I just heard,
if we take those negative eventsand retell the story or or or
the narrative as to what did itreally mean, and and maybe
change it good and bad.
You know, I mean, I I'll tellyou what, I had an experience,
(18:06):
I'll just because this is theexample I was going to give.
And Jerry, you may knowsomething about this.
I had a terrible businesspartner experience in the 80s.
It was so bad, it would not onlywas it financially bad, it was
traumatic to use Renee's term.
It was traumatic, it was awful.
(18:27):
It was a life-ruining sort of athing.
And so I made myself a promise.
I made myself a promise that Ihave carried with me forever.
I said, I will never do anotherpartnership in business.
I'll never do another one.
Okay.
Now I gotta tell you something,and Jerry, you may know this.
That has probably cost memillions of dollars.
(18:48):
Because I've had some amazingopportunities to do business to
people.
And I've just flat out said, no,I'm gonna do that.
So I mean, there is a terribleexperience that I've carried
with me and and probably need tochange the story a little bit,
change the change that meaning alittle bit.
SPEAKER_00 (19:05):
Yeah.
Wow.
And it's it it is one of thosethings that our past does inform
our current, and it's there fora very important reason because
you know, if you remember youturn left and then take a right
and there's a there's a darkarea, but there's a cliff there
and you fell there one time,well, you're gonna remember
that.
And that's actually a survivalmechanism.
And so it serves a its intent isto be a good purpose.
But when you're in business andyou realize, well, we've tried
(19:26):
that strategy before, it didn'twork.
Well, there's a lot of differentvariables on every kind of
strategy.
You know, if you're thinkingabout, you know, uh in
relationships, when my lastpartner used to do X, Y, and Z.
And when someone gets stressed,they're probably gonna do the
same thing.
Or even in leadership, well,we've always done it this way,
right?
And that's what we remember.
There's so many differentthings, but at the end of the
day, all of those requirechange.
(19:47):
And your whole body, youreverything about you is designed
to really resist change again.
And that's what, and and for thepurposes of protection.
At the end of the day, we'retrying to protect ourselves,
which is why psychologicalsafety is so critical.
SPEAKER_02 (19:59):
I mean, I'm gonna go backwards just for a moment.
So this is science, this is adefense mechanism.
SPEAKER_00 (20:05):
Well, defense and protection in some ways are
different, right?
SPEAKER_02 (20:10):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (20:11):
Like if I'm defensive, it's because I don't
want to admit something becauseit's gonna I'm gonna risk
something.
And so I'm gonna protect mywhether some people say their
inner child, their ego, whateverit is they're trying to protect,
maybe they protect ourreputation, which at the end of
the day, defense mechanism,protection, they're very similar
in in how they function.
But I think people think, well,you're being defensive.
And then you're in there, it'slike they attack the fact that
(20:33):
they're being defensive versussaying, I wonder where they feel
threatened.
And when you can have theemotional intelligence enough to
not react to the defensivenessand to say, okay, where do they
feel threatened?
That starts a completelydifferent conversation.
Now, the hard part is you can'tsay, Well, where do you feel
threatened?
Yeah, it's defensive to say, Idon't feel threatened.
SPEAKER_02 (20:54):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (20:54):
No, I was gonna say further admission of that.
And so instead saying, you know,saying there's questions that
you can do to create safety andto create a sense of comfort so
the person can have a much morehonest conversation.
But you have to think context,history.
Has there been a history of lackof trust?
Are you dealing with factorsthat are way beyond your
(21:15):
control?
What can you affect?
And, you know, sometimes I sayuh, you know, sometimes I'll say
something along the lines of,well, obviously something I have
done has offended you and it wasnot my intention.
So I'm gonna say, I'm sorry.
I would love to know what is itthat I've done here that has
caused this reaction.
And so you get a thede-escalation of that nervous
(21:37):
system to be able to feel safeenough to do that.
And a lot of times it's um butagain, it's a slippery slope
because the other person has tobe willing to play too.
SPEAKER_02 (21:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I would say that's a toughcombination actually.
SPEAKER_00 (21:52):
The real strategy is to preempt it before it happens.
And so we we we talk a lot aboutpredict, preempt, prevent the
three Ps.
If I can predict that they mightget defensive or protective
around something like this, or Ican predict that this might be a
threat, what can I do to preemptthat in order to prevent it?
And so if and this happens on inso many different areas.
(22:12):
If I'm I'm speaking at an eventand uh it's an event of maybe
another coach or another speakeror somebody else like me, and
they're trying to sell a productand they're deciding of whether
I'm going to be on stage, Isaid, well, here, let me tell
you something.
Before we even get started, one,I understand the cost and the
stress and the investment ittakes to put on an event.
And the worst thing anybody cando is come on your stage and
(22:35):
sell their products or servicesto your clients.
And so I want to let you knowthat I understand that.
There will be no pitches, noways to get a hold of me.
In fact, all the things thatthey want from me, my
PowerPoints, they're gonna haveto go through you because this
is your event.
And so just wanted to let youknow that I do understand that
dynamic.
And people, and I can't say howmany people have been like, you
know what, Renee?
You're one of the first peopleto actually get that.
(22:56):
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
And that has gotten me, justthat understanding has gotten me
on the number one business stagein the country with the biggest
speakers on the planet, fromDavid Goggins to the Shark Tank
folks to Gary V, you name it,they're all on the same stage.
And it was my ability.
Obviously, I was I had to be agood enough speaker, but my
ability to understand my rolecreated safety for them, knowing
(23:21):
that they didn't have to dealwith another coach trying to
pitch their products to theiraudience.
SPEAKER_02 (23:24):
I love that.
I mean, I just love that.
That's fantastic.
Wow.
Hey, let's move on to uh here'sa touchy one.
Let's move on to people bias.
People bias.
You know, is that is that thesame as profiling or prejudging?
SPEAKER_00 (23:41):
Yeah, it's there's there's when I when I think
about these things, I thinkyou're talking about uh
fundamental attribution error,um, which would be in essence
the very similar to what wetalked about, where we're
attributing judgment to people'scharacter based on what we know
about them.
And so it's very similar to yourexperience bias.
(24:02):
And I think they're kind of, youknow, they're late, they must be
irresponsible to I'm late, yeah,but you know, I was in terrible
traffic.
And, you know, so we we we uh wemake errors in the fundamental
attribution for reason ofcertain behaviors, and we're
kinder to ourselves than we areto others in that in a form of
protection of ourselves.
(24:23):
So I'd say both of those arevery, very similar.
And again, um just differentapplications of how they
function.
SPEAKER_02 (24:29):
So we're not really talking about prejudging people
here by their appearance.
SPEAKER_00 (24:35):
I mean, yeah, I mean, I think that the there's
all sorts of things that go thatpeople who dress that way must
be this way.
Right.
It's whatever visual, whatevercue, whether it's auditory,
experiential, whether it'svisual, people with tattoos must
be this, people that are baldmust be awesome, whatever it is.
It's there's a there's afundamental attribution error
that can happen there.
And but again, the reason wehave it is to protect ourselves.
(24:58):
And last time I saw somebodydressed in that uniform, they
took my family and they shot mychildren, right?
So that uniform immediately willtrigger this.
Last time I saw somebody who wasof this skin color, they did
this and they did that.
The next time I saw a womandoing this, they were this way.
Next time I saw somebody who waswhite and wore a cowboy hat,
they must have done this.
I mean, there's so many thingsthat can trigger these
(25:20):
responses.
And uh again, it's the purposeof it is very well intended.
But in a modern world, it's uhit's something we have to be
really careful with because Ican't tell you how many times I
was wrong.
I'll give you an example.
I was at a uh I was doing atraining, we've had over 250,000
people go through our trainings,and I'm talking about small
(25:40):
groups at a time live.
And I had somebody come in, hewas being a big white beard, he
had this big dude, probably sixfoot four, shirt with a
Confederate flag as big as youcould possibly screen print onto
a shirt.
On the back, it said smart asswhite boy.
Now, immediately I went back tomy past.
I've got a guitar back over herethat was my mother's, who was a
(26:01):
former nun and used to use musicto try to empower uh poor
communities, to try to empowermigrant labor to get out into a
better life.
And the KKK at the time didn'tlike that, so they would harass
my mother.
I was a kid when they were doingthis, so I was around.
They even broke into her car,stabbed her guitar 18 times, um,
and filled it with water.
And so when I see anything thatremotely resembles racism, I
(26:23):
immediately go back to they mustbe a certain way.
Well, by the by about five, sixhours into our session, this guy
was probably one of the mostloving, kind, embracing every
single person from race, gender,skin color, you name it, in the
room.
And everybody loved him.
And I was thinking to myself,I'm like, wow, like I was
convinced this person was acertain way.
(26:45):
And it must just be that maybehe doesn't understand what that
symbolism means to certainpeople.
And there's always a story,whether I like it or not,
whether I want to believe it ornot, there's always a story.
And I think that it is lazy forus to make judgments before we
hear the story.
Light travels faster than sound,so judgments is judgment is much
(27:08):
easier than truly understandingsomebody and who they are.
And so uh we have to be reallycareful of how this one works.
SPEAKER_01 (27:18):
Yeah, I mean, I also think let me just jump in here
real quick.
I mean, I also think that onthis particular topic, this this
bias thing has gotten a lotworse in modern day, you know,
because of social media whereyou know people are just
portrayed a certain way andopinions are are you know
(27:40):
developed in advance.
And um, you know, so Renee,would you would you just you
know elaborate or agree that youknow we're social animals and
and if we can you know interacta little bit more, I think you
could end up with a lot less,you know, of this bias that's
becoming a bigger part of aproblem in society.
SPEAKER_00 (28:02):
We won't do away with the biases, but what's
happening, in my opinion, isthat people are becoming much
more aware that they exist andhow to manipulate them.
And it used to be propaganda wassubtle.
It used to be that you know, itwas subtle, but you knew it was
happening.
It's a pamphlet, it's a flyer,it's a movie, and it's like, oh,
(28:22):
you could identify propaganda.
But we're in a post-propagandacondition right now where it's
not a single place that you canpinpoint it because it permeates
every single piece of media,communication, leaders, uh,
people that we're supposed totrust.
It's happening everywhere.
So, you know, you look at howmany lies have been told to us
by the media, by the government,and you know, without trying to
(28:43):
trigger any of that, it's justit's not even my opinion that
they've been lying.
It's now come out.
They've been lying.
And they're and they do it toprotect us.
And they're lying right nowabout the Epstein file, saying
if we arrest them, you know,societies we know it was going
to collapse.
And it's like, it's like rightin our face.
And so the abuse of those thingsgot to be so blatant, which is
why we don't trust the media.
(29:04):
We say it, we know it, we can'tpinpoint exactly why.
But now we know why.
But yet it still happens.
That's how powerful it is.
It's like I study these biasesnot because I'm immune to them,
I study these because I am justas immune as every anyone else.
And it takes vigor and effortand good people around you and
and intentionality to pullyourself out of this driving
(29:27):
force of how we are wired.
And so understanding them, and Itell people the the the the
Stanley Kubrick is a great quotethat that really illustrates
this point.
This says our ability to talkabout a subject matter can
create the consoling illusionthat we've mastered it, and
which kind of leads you into theDunning-Kruger effect, which is
(29:50):
another bias.
And if you're I don't know ifyou if that was on your list,
but the Dunning Kruger effect,are you guys familiar with that?
SPEAKER_02 (29:57):
I've heard that term, and I think uh I've heard
the term.
SPEAKER_00 (30:01):
Yep.
So if you think, if you thinkabout on an axis, xy axis, and
on the bottom would be yourknowledge, how much knowledge
the further to the right, themore knowledge you have.
But then on the x-axis going upwould be your your confidence.
And what happens is it's veryweird.
It's the lower, the least lessonyou know, the higher the
(30:21):
confidence.
And what happens when you firstlearn something, your confidence
is really, really high.
And then you begin to learnmore, and that confidence dips
really fast into what they callthe valley of despair.
When the more you learn, themore you realize, oh my God, I
really don't know anything aboutthis.
That's right.
And then you keep learning andit starts to turn back up and
you keep learning.
(30:41):
It goes up about halfway,though.
It never goes up past halfwayand it levels off there.
And what it shows is that truewisdom leaves room for other
options.
Certainty is a sure sign ofsomebody not knowing much about
a subject matter.
And this is what I tell my kids,what I tell my clients.
I said, if somebody is certain,it's one of my first indications
(31:01):
that they don't really know whatthey're talking about.
And oh, it's always this way.
I'm like, okay, well, okay.
I've been doing this a long timetoo, and I've seen it happen
many ways.
And I think normally and mostlikely it's here, but there
might be something I'm missing.
And you know this.
Think about the person who says,you know, when they're talking
about something, I said, Well,you know, here's what I've
(31:22):
learned, and this is only myopinion because I know there's
other ways to look at this, butthey then they begin, they go
into that.
What they're doing is they'recreating space for others to
play in that conversation, andversus the person who said,
Well, this is exactly how it is.
Nope, they're always this way.
You just, and and it's it's it'san indication that they're
falling into one of those biaseswhere they're early on, and you
(31:42):
you let's say you've been, uh,for example, somebody, let's say
you've been in a meditationsince you were a kid and you've
been doing it so long you don'ttalk about it anymore.
And somebody in their 50s justfinally got introduced to
meditation and they're like,We've just had this mind-blowing
experience, and now they'retelling everybody about
meditation is everything.
And now I'm cold plunging.
How long have you been coldplunging?
Oh, like two weeks, man.
This is like, it's amazing.
It does this for your body, itdoes that.
(32:04):
And what have you learned aboutwhat it does to the heart and
how many heart attacks it'scaused?
Because when you really get intoit, you realize that for some
people it is phenomenal.
For other people, it's a deathsentence.
Well, that happens through timeand learning, right?
And so there's all sorts ofthings that happen when we don't
(32:24):
have the self-awareness torealize that maybe we're new to
something, et cetera.
But again, another one of thosecognitive biases that creeps
into control how we think.
SPEAKER_02 (32:34):
But you know how you answered Jerry's question if you
go back about five minutes ago,you said we're not gonna get rid
of our biases.
And boy, that is we that'simportant.
I mean, in other words, thatsubconscious, if that's the
right term, or unconscious ornon-conscious, or that that
(32:54):
stuff is there and it's gonnaaffect.
I mean, it's there.
SPEAKER_01 (32:59):
I mean, but Russell, I think that like again, we
always try to give our listenersspecific things and actions,
right, that they can do.
And what Renee just talkedabout, that that rigid,
confident, I'm a hundred percentright about a subject or or or
theory or whatever it might be.
(33:20):
That was that was that I wasthat guy the first half of my
life.
SPEAKER_02 (33:24):
Really?
SPEAKER_01 (33:24):
And right, and and I'm gonna clean up.
Yeah, yeah.
What what what I tell you I tellyou what?
Yeah, what what changed it forme is I learned to question
everything.
That that that's that's thefirst thing that that I learned
to do.
And um, and and that thatenabled that enabled me to at
(33:48):
least listen to somebody I mayadamantly disagree with.
And by the way, there's a lot tolearn, there's a lot to learn
from people that you don't agreewith.
And maybe it's what you learn,and it could be what you learn
not not to do, not necessarilywhat you want to know, right?
So, um, but you know, I youknow, uh I don't think it
(34:09):
retains a you know, opinion onthat.
You know, if you if you questionthings um that you don't know
about, and uh you know, thisalso gets back to you, Russell,
the whole thing about living afact-based logical life versus
an emotional opinion-based life,right?
If you live a fact-based logicallife, you're always questioning
(34:30):
everything, even things and andand and all of us, all of us can
go back.
There's probably a 50 or 100times where you were a hundred
percent sure you were rightabout something and you found
out, oh my God, I had it wrong,right?
And that that that humbles youas you get older, and that gives
you the ability to listen andask.
(34:51):
And that that that that's what'sworked for me.
And I think if people can atleast start questioning views
and opinions and and and thingsthat you know you can you can
learn on a consistent basis.
Um, and it is true, myconfidence level is is probably
not what it was before.
Yes, but my my contentmentknowledge is way better.
SPEAKER_02 (35:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:16):
Well, I think you're you're you have a different goal
now.
You want truth more than morethan to be right.
And that's the the that seekingof truth is different.
And you have to remember thereason I said that it won't go
away because cognitive biasesare the shortcut to understand
life.
We have to have them becauseyou're we're taking in quite
(35:37):
literally 11 million bits ofinformation per second.
That's 11 million, 11 million,11 million, 11 million.
And you cannot navigate 11million bits of information.
Your body can only process 30,40 to 50 of them.
And within that, we can onlyremember about seven to nine.
And so to get to navigate allthat stuff, your body's got to
(35:58):
make some assumptions along theway.
And this is why we talk about inthat narrative gap.
When when we when we have a gapin our understanding, your brain
is gonna fill it in throughcognitive bias, through past
experience, confirmation bias,negativity bias, Dunning
Krueger, you name it, it's gonnafill it in to make a seamless
experience of reality.
And so when we start realizingand why we question our own
(36:18):
reality is because we got toquestion the story in which that
we are telling ourselves.
That is the quickest way tofigure out what reality are you
creating?
Well, what story am I telling?
And that means what explanationam I giving to this?
And then I start going, well,where did that come from?
And you breadcrumb your wayback.
Well, it came from I used to gothrough this one time.
Well, how many times have youdone that?
Once or twice?
Wonderful.
Do you think there might beother uh things out there that
(36:40):
are bigger than just once ortwice?
And then once you just knowthat, you can say, Well, this is
what I'm assuming is right now,but I'm open to other ideas.
I would love to hear somethingelse.
I've studied this prettyheavily, but I've also known
that I know this enough to knowthat I could be wrong about some
of these things.
So talk to me.
And now this collaborativeexperience comes in.
And, you know, uh AndrewBustamante, who's a former CIA
(37:00):
spy, says that his number oneCIA trick is to move away from
pers to move away fromperception and into perspective.
Because if everyone operates outof their perception, the only
perception that I can operatefrom is my own.
And if I know that there aremultiple perceptions in the
world or other perspectives,then there is no tactical
(37:21):
advantage to operating from myperception.
I have to move into perspectiveand understand the other
perspectives, even if they'reagainst what I believe, think,
and identify with.
And so now I've got a tacticaladvantage because I know how
everybody else in this isthinking, and I have a better
view of the problem, situation,opportunity, et cetera, so that
I can better make betterdecisions to get better
outcomes.
And so those biases kind of pullus in, and our bodies always
(37:43):
pull us into our own perception,our own view of the world.
So we have to fight not onlybiologically, but neurologically
to get out of that function tobe able to get a better view of
what's happening in the planet,the world, my reality, whatever
you want to call it.
SPEAKER_02 (37:56):
Whoa, tough stuff.
You know, I think where we, Ithink some of what you just
covered actually touches on andhits the fourth bias that I was
going to talk about, which isconfirmation bias.
And, you know, it's it's this isone, I just can't stand this.
It's when people are justseeking information that
(38:19):
supports what they alreadybelieve, not being open to new
perspective.
What a great word that was.
SPEAKER_01 (38:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (38:29):
And we see this all the time.
SPEAKER_01 (38:32):
Yeah, that that's why seeking when people go to
seek advice, they they'reseeking what they want to hear,
not what they need to hear.
And they're generally going toask somebody who they, you know,
that trusts them and there's aback and forth.
It's almost like a friend or afamily member or something like
that.
And and generally, those are theworst people to seek advice from
(38:52):
because they're all inprotection mode, right?
They don't want to see anythingbad happen to you.
So, you know, you gotta, youknow, got to escape that, you
know, and understand that youknow, getting seeking advice on
a topic or an issue, um, justbecause somebody has experience
in one area certainly doesn'tmean they're an expert in
another area.
SPEAKER_00 (39:10):
So I think that that that that's something that uh
well you just said was thefundamental of the fundamental
attribution error.
Just because they're they'reexpert in one does not mean
they're an expert in another.
See how these all things theyoverlap, which is what makes it
fun.
You know, if you think about thethe confirmation bias, and it's
like our brains arepattern-seeking, pattern
(39:31):
recognition machines.
And the the scary part aboutconfirmation bias is when we
feel self-righteous in it.
Um, I get an argument aboutpolitics with somebody about it.
So-and-so is a bad person.
They go, really?
Are you sure?
And I start going to Google tofind all the negative things
about this person.
And then I find some things thatmight be good and what they did,
(39:52):
and I just say, that's not whatyou're exactly.
You see what I'm talking about?
This guy is.
Exactly.
And but I also, but I'm drivenby this self-righteous, um,
probably would be called uh someexotic principles-based
exoneration, if you will, of Ifeel exonerated from this based
on my principles of truth andjustice.
(40:14):
And I'm gonna ignore all theseother things that are happening
so that I can prove myselfright.
Now, you might be right, or youmight have fallen into all sorts
of other things that arehappening.
And so, like, what the reallythe true solution here is to be
forever curious and open.
And there's a, you know, and Ithink the solutions to these
(40:36):
things are found in philosophy,which is wild.
There's a book that I have overon the shelf, it's uh an
autobiography of a yogi.
I read it at 18, and in therethe one of the first stories it
shared was that it said that thestudent was trying to confuse
the master with asking toughphilosophical questions.
And the master quietly respondedby saying, My my child, the
(41:00):
truth is afraid of no questions.
And it's like, man, oh, that'sgreat.
If I truly am a seeker of truth,then I should be not scared of
any question.
And if I'm scared of a question,then I must not be seeking
truth.
I must be seeking confirmation.
(41:22):
And go if you apply that sameprinciple to the media or to
politics, if success requires asuppression of some information,
Chase Hughes would call that apsy-op.
And he's the all he's the expertin that arena.
And so if I'm and so maybethere's a psyop that I'm doing
(41:44):
on myself.
We engage in psy-ops on thepeople around us, making sure
that they believe what webelieve because we what we
believe is right, what webelieve is the best thing for
the world.
And so now there's a moral, um,moral frame that we're trying to
put on this and moraljustification to our
psychological manipulation ofthose around us, instead of just
(42:06):
letting truth happen.
And as I say this, I can thinkof 30 times that I've done this.
And I'm going, man, am I doing apsyop here?
I mean, it's like it is one ofthose things that you have to
constantly question yourself.
You have to constantly reflect,you have to engage in honest
contemplation to sit in front ofa mirror and look.
Am I doing the right thing?
(42:27):
Am I a good person?
Was I good today?
No different than I thinksomebody asked themselves every
night after they supposedlycreated this earth.
Was it good?
Did I do good?
Contemplation.
One of the highest forms ofprayer there is.
And if he did good, he sleptwell.
And I think if we can ask thatof ourselves, did I do good
today?
Was I good?
Then maybe we'll sleep a littlebit better.
SPEAKER_02 (42:47):
Yep.
So if someone is just waking upto all of this new information
about how important I love yourcognitive biases word.
I love that phrase, howimportant all of that is and how
it affects us.
I think you just gave us theanswers as to what you're
(43:09):
supposed to do with it.
But if you could repeat just acouple of here, I'm waking up
like me.
I'm waking up to this right now.
I'm hearing you andunderstanding how it's affecting
everything I'm doing.
How do I get what do I what do Ido tomorrow?
SPEAKER_01 (43:25):
Yeah, there's a general lack of awareness that
people have.
So if you if you're you knowwatching this podcast and you're
you're learning and hearing thisfor the first time, this is the
perfect example.
Be open to listening and and andthe advice and the information
that you're getting because mostof the people that are biased in
however, you know, in 30, 40years of how you were raised,
(43:48):
your environment, everythingthat you were around, you know,
it's hard, very hard to go, waita second.
Maybe this isn't, you know, thelife for me, or maybe this
isn't, you know, the the paththat I'm I've I was supposed to
go down.
So, you know, I I just thinkthat most people in in in a lot
of the discussions I've had andpeople I've met um and tried to
(44:11):
help um there there's it startswith awareness.
They're not even aware of of oftheir biases or that they even
have biases.
So that's Jerry listen to listento this.
SPEAKER_02 (44:23):
I mean that's so perfect.
Here's the note I made here'sthe note I made for the end of
this I said bias doesn't makeyou wrong it makes you unaware
and awareness is where wherereal performance begins.
So this you're right it's whereit's our old friend
self-awareness.
It's our old friendself-awareness.
SPEAKER_01 (44:44):
Well you can't get away from it can you my goodness
uh jerry do you have anyquestions is that right the
number one skill in leadershipwow all right uh I have not read
it but it'll be on it'll be inmy hands tomorrow my goodness
yeah Jerry do you have anyquestions for this is uh first
(45:05):
off thank you sir thank you sovery much amazing amazing stuff
Jerry do you have any questionsfor Renee um I I think we've
pretty much covered you knowmost of most of the uh the
topics of you know the the wholeawareness bias thing um you know
the only thing I would say is isum or my only question my last
(45:26):
question is is that you know howhow does somebody go about
changing their subconsciousthoughts you know how what's the
process I know I know it's amajor battle it's it's stuff
that's been programmed in therefor year after year after year
and you know my my view of it isis that the only way you could
(45:48):
change things is throughregimented actions that
reprogram you know theinformation.
SPEAKER_00 (45:53):
But I'd love to hear from you you know the the
scientific side of that you knowit's a it's a it's a deep
question when you think abouthow do I change my subconscious
you're really trying to changenervous system responses and
automatic beliefs emotionalassociations to identity based
patterns even habits that tendto just loop over and over and
(46:16):
over again.
And so it's we think of thesubconscious as sort of this
mystical mystical thing, but itreally just runs on what's most
familiar if that makes sense.
And so you you you you don'tfight it per se in my sense.
I think you just you want tolike in essence change um really
(46:38):
replace the old patterns and sothe first look is to really say
how do I identify what is whatwhat what how do I identify
myself am I somebody who is ahard worker am I somebody who is
loyal am I somebody you know I'mbad with money I'm not confident
I'm not creative well those areall identity statements and when
you say those identitystatements and when you say who
(47:00):
am I well pay attention to whatyou say right pay attention to
what you say and always listento what people repeat because
what people repeat are thingsthat they value and also things
that they identify with andthose identities they will spend
their life protecting them andyou can and when you get into
manipulation you get into what'scalled weaponizing the cognitive
dissonance meaning you canweaponize them against them.
(47:21):
If somebody if somebody believesthat they're honest and they
repeat that and if I needed tocrawl under their skin I would
just say you know what you're Ican't believe you lied to me.
You weren't honest with me aboutthis.
And there they would immediatelyturn on and it's you know it's
also called emotional blackmail.
I'm I'm blackmailing youemotionally and and controlling
you that way.
(47:42):
And so the purpose of evenaffirmations done in a um action
based format is very powerfulbecause you start saying these
things out loud.
And so a lot of times it's hardto really control what we say.
So if I'm a bad leader I'd sayI'm learning to lead you know I
(48:02):
I'm not good with money.
Well I'm I'm becomingfinancially disciplined and so
um I don't speak real clearlyversus you know I've really I've
come to learn how to speak moreclearly over the last few
months.
And so if you think about theidentity in motion identity in
words and thoughts it's it'spowerful.
And so then of course then youhave to engage in repetition of
(48:23):
that emotion.
So when you repeat emotionrepeat the identity it's in
essence re repetition andemotion equals installation is
another way of thinking aboutit.
Love it.
So you're trying to install anew operating system and so uh
to me I think writing down youridentity statement is going to
be a powerful thing and thenattaching that emotion to that
(48:44):
identity statement.
And once you've written it downyou've attached the emotion how
do you visualize what it lookslike what do you visualize life
if you don't do it?
Because you got to have thatthat stick you know the carrot
and the stick are bothmotivators.
But what does life look like andbe vivid about what it looks
like the failure and the thingsthat you believe.
Jim Rowan was great and said,you know, what if you bought off
on the wrong plan and what ifyou engage in that plan for two
(49:06):
to three five years what wouldyour life look like and I'm like
oh my God I I don't even want toknow what my life would look
like.
And so you when you look at thatyou say okay well what does it
look like how do I write it downand then how do I start living
it on a daily basis?
And so then you got to go inthrough the third piece I might
even say would be how do youinterrupt the old patterns when
they're gonna creep up on youbecause there are a lot of them
(49:26):
are subconscious, unconscioushow do you have people around
you that do that you know ohthis never works for me.
And then somebody says hold on asecond you know the you might
want to ask yourself well isthis objectively true what do I
what do I categorically know tobe true at the moment?
Right?
And that is a thing you can usewith the media you can do
everything.
And then what I know to be true,what else could be true is
(49:48):
another way of thinking thatnext question and what would the
person I'm becoming think aboutwhat I just said and so Joe
Rogan had a great example.
He said pretend that you are ina major motion picture of the
biggest comeback in history andyou are the main character.
(50:08):
You've been through hell what'syour next move and it's like oh
man what would that characterdo?
And you think of yourselfoutside of yourself and it's
easier not to get wrapped upwell they would do this I said
well they'll go do that.
That's that thing that you do.
And I think the fourth one isthe one that um really was
drilled into me by uh a goodclient friend his name is Nico
Vance and he he's really amasterful of mastering and
(50:34):
really designing yourunconscious mind and it's about
upgrading your environment andreally managing your your visual
environment.
He went through I go what whenhe did this I go what do you
mean by that?
And he looked around he goes youwant my honest opinion I said
yeah he goes there's nothingaround your office that reminds
you of your goals there'snothing that reminds you I see
camera equipment, lighting,studios, books, but nothing that
reminds you of your goals.
(50:55):
I'm like whoa okay that's reallya big one.
And so really taking a look atyour environment but then also
going past that and say okay whodo you spend your time with?
What are you consuming on socialmedia?
I mean take an honest in inputon social media because I
promise you when you look atyour screen time and then you
look at your watch history andlook at the garbage that you may
have been watching that isprogramming your subconscious
(51:18):
that is helping you identify andcreate and triggering your
reticularly activating systemwhich is at charge of your
attention and focus on what tolook for familiarity patterns
everything like that.
So if you're hearing readingabout aliens all the time you're
gonna see alien stuff everywhereand then you're gonna start
thinking about that.
What conversations aredominating your day and then
what in essence what evidence isyour brain consuming and
(51:40):
absorbing on a daily basis?
And so you got to surroundyourself if you want new new
thinking got to surroundyourself new people new
information new things likethat.
And then I might even say actbefore you feel ready.
Don't wait for confidence.
Confidence is never a precursorconfidence is always the gift
that comes after courage.
And so well I just need moreconfidence.
(52:02):
Well you're your only way you'regonna do that is through failure
is through to just being makinghorrible mistakes and showing a
little bit of courage to do itanyways and then life says hey
you did this good.
Here's an ounce of confidenceand so when you're thinking
about that action you'reactually rewrite rewriting in
essence your memory your your umyou're rewriting your identity
and even in essence yourbehavior and it's all being
(52:23):
locked in.
And so you're not changing itdirectly your subconscious
you're in essence changingidentity statements the actions
that you're taking with thethings that you repeat the
attached emotions and newexperiences you're interrupting
these old patterns you'resurrounding yourself around the
right people the right thingsand so that would be the long
answer to a deep question.
SPEAKER_02 (52:45):
Unbelievable stuff.
Oh my goodness unbelievableladies and gentlemen any of you
listening to this today I knowyou will have gotten a lot out
of this this is a fantasticpresentation by a brilliant
individual Renee we thank you sovery much from the bottom of our
(53:06):
hearts for what you've broughtto us today.
It's just been fantastic.
SPEAKER_01 (53:11):
Really appreciated thank you guys it's been an
honor to be here what greatquestions too I think we're
gonna I think we're gonna yeahgo ahead Jerry I was just saying
that you know at as all of ourlisteners know you know we don't
endorse anything of we there'sno financial component to our
podcast or anything else and uhbut due to my personal
experience with Renee and andand how just absolutely amazing
(53:32):
the program was I just wouldlike Renee to you know just how
how can people get a hold ofyou?
Just let let them know that uhyou know if someone wants to
change their life in a positivedirection I can't think of
anybody that uh look at you isis is better.
SPEAKER_02 (53:47):
Look at you I love it.
I'm gonna put all your socialsin the show notes I'm gonna put
links to your website I'll I'llI'll take care of you real good
in the show notes for people uhbecause it's just been a it's
been a fantastic experience.
I'm very very grateful for yourparticipation.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00 (54:03):
Well you guys you guys asked some great questions
and it was fun it was fun to digdig a little deeper on this one
so it was good.
SPEAKER_02 (54:08):
Really appreciate it and please please say thank you
to your assistant Jenny too shewas wonderful to work with and
setting all this up she was veryvery very helpful.
So Jerry you got any last wordsfor us today Jerry?
SPEAKER_01 (54:19):
No we are good to go great session thanks guys gonna
get a get a lot going to get alot of follow up on this one.
SPEAKER_00 (54:26):
Renee thank you very much here.
SPEAKER_02 (54:29):
Okay real good we'll talk to you jerry talk to you
soon goodbye everybody thank youso much
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