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September 16, 2024 29 mins

Can adopting a positive mindset inadvertently lead to dismissing genuine struggles? 

How can we balance a healthy stress mindset without falling into the trap of toxic positivity? 

In this episode of the 'School for School Counselors Podcast, host Steph Johnson addresses the complexities of stress management for school counselors. The episode delves into recognizing the difference between a constructive stress mindset and falling into the trap of toxic positivity. 

Steph shares strategies for identifying warning signs of burnout, maintaining realistic expectations, and balancing professional efforts with emotional well-being. Listeners are encouraged to adopt mindful self-reflection, understand contextual limits, and seek peer support to sustain a healthy professional mindset.

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview

01:33 Understanding Stress Mindset vs. Toxic Positivity

01:45 Listener Reviews and Reflections

03:19 Reinterpreting Stress: A Deeper Dive

05:03 Growth Mindset and Its Pitfalls

08:12 Warning Signs of Toxic Positivity

08:59 Personal Experience with Hustle Culture

19:35 Strategies to Maintain a Healthy Mindset

26:10 Conclusion

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References/Resources:

American School Counselor Association. (2019). The ASCA national model: A framework for school counseling programs (4th ed.). American School Counselor Association.

Dweck, C. S. (2006). Mindset: The new psychology of success. Random House.

Tao W, Zhao D, Yue H, Horton I, Tian X, Xu Z and Sun H-J (2022) The Influence of Growth Mindset on the Mental Health and Life Events of College Students. Front. Psychol. 13:821206. doi: 10.3389/fpsyg.2022.821206

Tsai, Min-Ying. 2023. Comparing Perfectionism, Cognitive Mindset, Constructive Thinking, and Emotional Intelligence in Gifted Students by Grade and Gender. Social Sciences 12: 233. https://doi.org/ 10.3390/socsci12040233

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello school counselor, welcome back to the
School for School Counselorspodcast.
I'm your host, steph Johnson, afull-time school counselor just
like you, on a mission to makeschool counseling feel more
sustainable and more enjoyable,so that you look forward to
walking in those schoolhousedoors each and every day.

(00:22):
For the past couple of episodeswe've been talking about stress
how to identify chronic stress,how to lay some tracks so that
you can avoid chronic stress,and in the last podcast episode
we talked about how to adapt theway we're looking at school

(00:42):
counselor stress, how we areinterpreting our physiological
signs and how we can shift ourstress mindset to actually make
stress work in our favor.
So I'm always trying to imaginewhat are you thinking on the
other side of this podcastrecording as you're listening,

(01:04):
what are some of the questionsyou might have or what are some
of the things that you might besaying in your head.
To me, like Steph, that allsounds great, but you know and I
know that just thinkingpositive about things doesn't
necessarily change it and it'svery possible it could actually
make stress worse.
I had the same thought.

(01:26):
I was thinking about thedifference between stress
mindset and toxic positivity,and so I want to dive into that
this week.
I want to talk through thedifferences and the nuances
between the two and how we cantell which camp we are in
currently.

(01:47):
But before I do that, I want toread some more of the amazing
reviews that we received duringour recent pod party.
So many listeners were kindenough to leave some amazing
reviews with Apple Podcasts andI would love to share one with
you today.
Ehl Mom titled their reviewNewbie and went on to say this

(02:10):
Steph Johnson has alreadyoffered fantastic guidance and
encouragement as I've embarkedon year number one as a school
counselor after 16 years in theclassroom.
Her empathy for newprofessionals and also mamas of
young children like me ismatched by her knowledge and
expertise, and I am grateful.

(02:31):
I'm working my way throughprevious podcast episodes while
also listening to the currentreleases.
Steph is a pro and I'm here forit.
Thank you so much, ehl mom.
That means so much to me andI'm so glad that the message is
coming through loud and clear.
You guys, school counseling isnot for the faint of heart, and

(02:55):
certainly not as we embark onother missions like being
partners, being mothers, beingcommunity helpers.
There are all kinds of rolesthat we play in our lives.
School counseling definitelyisn't the only one, and so we
need to be mindful of all thethings that we're confronting in
our day-to-day business.
So thanks again for that review.

(03:16):
It's so, so sweet and positiveAll right.
Now, shifting back toward stressIn our last podcast episode,
that one was titled SchoolCounseling Stress what If we're
Wrong?
We were talking about how wecan reinterpret our
physiological signs of stress asa strength, for instance, if we

(03:40):
feel our heart start to pound alittle bit in a stressful
situation.
Instead of panicking andthinking, oh no, this is
stressful, I don't like it, wecould think my body is preparing
to help me be awesome in thissituation.
And it sounds kind of funny tosay out loud but the research
strongly supports this that thebetter we are able to

(04:02):
reinterpret our physiologicalsignals as well as reprogram the
way we are able to reinterpretour physiological signals as
well as reprogram the way wethink about stress, the more
likely we will be able to notonly survive with stress but
thrive within it.
But I do think it's dangerousjust to say, ah, change the way
you think about stress, frame itall in a positive light and

(04:25):
everything will be great,because that's not real right.
That's not the way that lifereally works, and I think this
is a danger in our field as awhole, where we tend to want to
try to oversimplify things inorder to create these really
concise pat answers that,unfortunately, don't do a lot

(04:47):
for the people in thosesituations.
I think we have to dive in alittle bit deeper.
I think we have to get a littlebit more real about what's
going on so that we can ensurethat everyone all of our school
counseling colleagues andfriends are successful.
Now, I know that you know aboutgrowth mindset.
I know that the name CarolDweck probably rings in your

(05:09):
dreams as a school counselor,because we talk about growth
mindset with our students allthe time.
We are constantly trying toconvince students that if they
can develop this belief in theirabilities and in their
intelligence, that the sky isthe limit for them and that
building that ability takeseffort, it takes persistence and

(05:33):
it takes learning right.
When students are able tocurate a growth mindset, when
they come up against a setback,they see it as an opportunity
for improvement, and we knowfrom the research that folks
with a strong growth mindsettend to be more resilient, they
tend to cope better with stressand they're more motivated to

(05:57):
learn from their failuresinstead of just throwing their
hands up and saying, oh crap, Imessed that one up right.
And then walking off and noteven confronting that situation
again.
But I do think if we're notcareful, oftentimes we can
misinterpret growth mindset andit can start to morph into toxic

(06:18):
positivity.
That's when we start tooversimplify these situations
where we feel like we need tomaintain a positive, can-do
outlook, even when there arelegitimate struggles in the way,
even when we are actuallyfeeling very negative about the

(06:39):
situation.
Instead of processing throughthat, instead of working through
the difficulties, instead ofconfronting those negative
emotions, we just dismiss themand we say, oh well, you know,
let's try again next time.
Good vibes only, let's juststay positive, those kinds of
things.
And when we don't confront ourreal issues, some other

(07:03):
secondary issues come into play,like we start to feel guilty,
we start to feel a sense ofshame, or sometimes we have the
after effects of emotionalinvalidation.
We don't need to always be happy.
I don't think that that isrealistic for human beings and

(07:26):
because we can't always be happy, I don't know that it's fair to
say that we should always puton this persona of being happy
in our work Now.
We don't wanna be at grumpygrump walking around the
hallways either.
Right, there's a nice balancethere.
But the point of thisconversation is, if we're trying
to reframe stress, if we'retrying to reinterpret it for

(07:50):
ourselves and see it as asuperpower instead of a
detriment, we've got to becareful we don't go too far in
the way of toxic positivity,because that's going to be just
as damaging to us as if we letthe stress eat us alive.
We have to be somewhere in themiddle and balance those two
approaches out.

(08:10):
So we need to identify somewarning signs to let us know if
we are reinterpreting ourphysiological stress signals, if
we are rethinking the way weview stress in our minds.
We need to be aware of thedanger signs that we've gone too

(08:31):
far the other direction and arenow venturing into toxic
positivity.
One of those is when we startto feel like we are under
extremely unrealisticexpectations and burnout.
We're starting to expect waytoo much of ourselves, we start
doing way too much for oneperson, or we get involved in

(08:54):
something that is often calledthe hustle culture.
Now I have a personal experiencewith hustle culture.
Now I have a personalexperience with hustle culture.
You may have heard me talk inthe past about how School for
School Counselors was neverintended to become what it is
now.
It was just kind of agrassroots little small group on

(09:15):
the internet that has now grownover the last four years to
become huge, to comprise thepodcast and Facebook group and
Instagram pages and mastermindmemberships and workshops and
get the job programs and all thethings that are going on.
And as we were building thatwith the direction of our

(09:37):
members, I kind of started toventure into the world of hustle
culture because I sodesperately wanted to support my
colleagues, because I wasseeing the effects of the COVID
pandemic already and I could seethe writing on the wall headed
straight our direction and withthe lack of support in school

(10:00):
counseling, I knew we wereheaded toward some bumpy road in
school counseling and so I gotvery intentional, I got very
motivated to start developingresources and supports for
school counselors culture whereI would go to work and work

(10:24):
full-time as a school counselorall day, meaning I was busy all
day.
Right, you know this becauseyou're busy all day too.
I would get finished at work, Iwould pick my kiddos up from
school, I would get them totheir after-school activities.
I would go home, get everybodyfed some dinner, get them ready
for the next day, and then I satdown with my laptop and started
to work on School for SchoolCounselors, and I would often

(10:44):
get started around 9 or 9.30 inthe evening.
I wouldn't shut my laptop until1 or 2 in the morning, grab a
couple hours sleep, get up thenext day and do it all over
again.
And at first it was easybecause I was so motivated,
because I so desperately wantedto be of help to people, that it

(11:05):
was easy to do that.
But as time went on it startedto take its toll on me.
It took its toll physically andit also took its toll mentally.
And I'll be honest with you, Ifeel like sometimes I am still
crawling out of that mindset.
There are still times that I amvery, very tempted to sit in

(11:27):
front of that laptop until thewee hours of the morning and I
have to remind myself that it'snot healthy, it's not good.
But I think that's exactly whathappened to me.
I think it was a lot of justthis desperate desire to want to
help and pushing myself throughthat, adopting whatever mindset

(11:48):
.
It took to get to the finishline without realizing that I
had taken on all of theseunrealistic expectations, and I
do think I flirted a little bitwith burnout.
Thank goodness I didn't get allthe way there.
But, like I said, this is abattle I'm still fighting and so
I want you to be aware of it inyour school counseling work.

(12:08):
If you go beyond persistence, ifyou're going beyond just having
a resilient mindset and you'reover committing to things,
you're creating unrealisticexpectations of constant success
, constant improvement orconstant attempts to align to
the ASCA standard, you're goingto be risking burnout for sure,

(12:32):
particularly because schoolcounseling is so high stress.
You are going to start feelinglike you have to constantly
overcome every challenge throughyour own effort, even when
circumstances make it impossible.
That brings to mind the ASCAnational model.
You've heard me say this before.
I think the national model isgreat.

(12:54):
I think it's wonderful to havea standard to aim toward and I
hope that one day we get to thepoint that all school counseling
programs can align to thatmodel.
But in the meantime we have alot of school counselors feeling
like they're supposed to toethat line when they've been put
in situations and circumstancesthat cannot sustain that model,

(13:18):
but because they were trained init, because that's all they
hear about online and in theirresources that they download and
all of the articles andconversations.
They feel like if they're notmeeting that standard, they're
failing and that the only way tomeet that standard is through
their own effort.
That's not true and I think itis a dangerous game we are

(13:42):
playing.
With regard to the nationalmodel, that's when we start to
experience emotional exhaustion,we start to feel inadequate, we
start to feel extreme levels ofstress and we start looking at
the land of burnout.
We don't want to get there.
So, if you're feelingoverwhelmed, take a hard look at

(14:03):
the expectations you have inplace for yourself.
Are you trending toward burnout?
Do you feel like it's too muchfor one person?
And if it is, is thispositivity mindset contributing
to that?
Second danger sign is when youstart to ignore your real

(14:23):
feelings.
If we over-rely on a positivemindset or on a growth mindset,
we start to dismiss negativeemotions.
We start to feel like we shouldalways be focusing on something
constructive, somethingpositive, something to get us to
the next thing and, over thelong term, dismissing our

(14:46):
negative emotions can be reallyharmful.
We have to have time to process.
We see and hear some of themost difficult things going on
on our school campuses, and itcan take its toll on you for
sure.
Sadness, my goodness.
I've heard some of the saddestthings ever since becoming a

(15:08):
school counselor Frustrationeither for students or with our
systems and our educationalenvironments in general.
All of these negative emotionsthat we experience throughout
our day certainly beyondfrustration and sadness, but
I'll use those two as examplesneed to be processed.

(15:28):
And if we don't take the timeto process it, if we're not
allowing ourselves our ownmental space to do that, because
we're so busy saying, oh no,it'll be fine, just push through
it, just reframe it.
This is an opportunity forgrowth.
Without taking time to reallyaddress these negative feelings,
we are going to feel theblowback from that.

(15:51):
So make sure, as you arestriving to maintain these
mindsets, you're not ignoringyour real feelings.
We can reframe stress your realfeelings.
We can reframe stress.
We can look at it as a positiveexperience while also still
processing those feelings.
And we need to acknowledge bothsides.
It can't be one or the other,all right.

(16:15):
So we've looked at two warningsigns so far One is doing too
much.
Two is ignoring our realfeelings.
Third and we've kind of touchedon this a little bit is when we
begin to blame ourselves fornot doing the job perfectly,
when this mindset starts to leadto perfectionism or blaming

(16:38):
ourselves for program failures,for counseling failures.
When we have all of theseexternal factors at play in our
work, that becomes verydangerous.
You cannot push and hope anddream and think positive to the
point that you start to feellike you're not working hard

(16:59):
enough or learning fast enoughwhen you're actually giving it
everything you can in a dayright.
If we start to let our mindstell us that our personal
deficiencies are the cause ofour lack of growth or our lack
of success or our inability tomake an impact with the student,
that gets very dangerous.

(17:21):
We have to be thoughtful aboutthe way we're conceptualizing
this in our minds.
If we're giving it everythingwe can give it, if we are
working within evidence-basedpractices, if we are capturing
use of time, we're workingwithin campus data, all of those
things, and we still start toblame ourselves for not doing

(17:43):
everything perfectly.
According to the ASCA nationalmodel, we've got to keep a
realistic perspective on this.
We are working within ratioswell above 250 to 1.
We're still doing all of thesebaloney job responsibilities
that have nothing to do withschool counseling.
If you can't do the jobperfectly, it's not 100% your

(18:05):
fault.
99% of the time in schoolcounseling, it's because there
are other limitations andsystemic challenges that are
standing in your way.
And then, fourth, a big red flagyou need to keep your eyes out
for is when you stop recognizingyour own boundaries.

(18:25):
A study by Zhao 2021 emphasizedthat growth mindset should be
balanced with self-awareness ofpersonal limits.
If you feel obligated to pushthrough every single difficulty
without recognizing your ownpersonal boundaries, you're at

(18:47):
risk of becoming even morestressed and more overwhelmed by
your caseload.
We know, if we don't respectour own limits, we are
definitely going to reachphysical and emotional burnout.
We have to be cognizant ofwhere our boundaries lie and
that we're not towing acrossthem.

(19:07):
We're not staying longer at thedetriment to our own mental
health or our families.
We have to make sure that weare able to leave work at work
when we walk away for the dayand not take it home.
There are all kinds ofboundaries we need to be aware
of and that we need to bemonitoring to make sure that
this positive thinking, thiscan-do attitude, doesn't cross

(19:31):
over into maladaptive thinking.
So what can we do?
What can we do to eitherprevent these red flags from
becoming an issue or what can wedo?
What can we do to eitherprevent these red flags from
becoming an issue, or what canwe do to turn the boat around if
we're already in that harbor?
There are a few things we cando, again, according to the
research.

(19:52):
Number one and this is going tosound so cliche, I don't even
want to hear the words comingout of my mouth, because you
know I hate cliche, but I'mgoing to say it because it's
true and it's evidence-based andyou need to know
Self-reflection and mindfulness.
If you can pursueself-reflection and mindfulness,
according to Schroeder 2020,you're going to be able to

(20:16):
identify when your pursuit ofgrowth is harming your emotional
well-being.
You've got to be able torecognize and validate your
emotions, to validate feelingsof stress, feelings of
frustration, feelings of I don'teven know what it is I'm doing
anymore.
Know what it is I'm doinganymore.

(20:42):
We can maintain a positiveperspective on stress while
still recognizing those feelings, and that is imperative.
It cannot be a one or the othersituation, it must be both.
Carol Dweck also reminds us, ascited by Psy 2023, we've got to
be consciously practicingcoping skills as part of that
self reflection.
It's funny, I think.

(21:04):
As school counselors we arevery prone to forget coping
skills for ourselves.
We talk about them a lot withour students and perhaps with
our staff.
Sometimes we forget aboutourselves and we need to make
sure that we're really, reallylooking at those.
So that's the first strategyself-reflection, mindfulness and
coping skills.

(21:24):
The second step that we can taketo address when our mindset is
veering off into dangerousterritory is contextualizing our
growth.
Here's what I mean by that.
As we're thinking about whereour programs are, where we want
them to be, what we want them tobecome, and all the great ideas

(21:45):
that you have, all theinitiatives you want to put in
place and all the effects thatyou want to see for students, we
have to keep in mind thecontextual limits of what we do,
that not all of these things,all of these initiatives,
programs and outcomes can beeffected by our personal effort

(22:07):
alone.
We've always got to keep inmind the external factors that
are also at play.
What are your constraintswithin your work?
Recognize those and acceptthose.
To be real about your currentcircumstances, if you're
carrying a caseload of 800 to 1,you're not going to be able to

(22:27):
put very many new initiativesinto place on your campus, if at
all.
Right, you're focusing ontriage, short-term counseling
and referring kids out as fastas you can with a caseload that
size, and unfortunately that isnot too far out of the norm in a
lot of areas of our country.
It's great to want to knowwhere we want to go, it's great

(22:50):
to have goals and aspirationsfor our programs, but we also
need to be realistic.
Do we have the time, do we havethe money, do we have the
support available to implementthose kinds of initiatives?
And if we don't, we have to bevery mindful about not taking
the lack of progress personally.

(23:13):
And the third step to addressthis maladaptive positive
mindset is to seek support.
We know from our peer-reviewedliterature it's all over the
place that counselors need toengage in professional
supervision or peer supportgroups to manage the pressure of
what we do each and every day.

(23:35):
If we don't do that, we tend tostart to feel very isolated, we
tend to feel very overwhelmedby the challenges in front of us
and we can risk, overcommitting to a growth mindset,
we can risk kind of veering overinto that other lane where it's
progress and results at everyturn, when really we need some

(24:00):
external reality checks.
We need some folks to say hangon, slow down, how are things
going With that many students?
You may want to try it this way.
Maybe wait until then to dothat.
Or, as Psy 2023 tells us, or asPsy 2023 tells us, practicing
constructive thinking in ourroles.

(24:21):
That's hard to do on your own.
It's much easier to do in agroup and if you can do that, it
will keep that positive mindsetin check.
It will keep the reframing,your stress situations in check.
It will keep your perception ofyour physiological cues in
check, so that you don't becomea slave to this positive growth

(24:45):
culture that's going to tend youtoward burnout or, at the very
least, some additional personaldistress.
We don't want you there.
That's not where you want to goeither.
I want you to enjoy your workevery day.
So, at the end of the day, Ithink the point is this Even
though we're talking aboutstress, we're talking about

(25:07):
avoiding chronic stress, aboutchanging the way we look at
stress, how we interpret it, sothat it can be our ally instead
of our enemy.
We also want to keep in mindthat our thoughts and feelings
don't go too far, the otherdirection, where we start
engaging in perfectionisticthinking, where we become

(25:30):
emotionally exhausted or we justlose that ability to
acknowledge what our emotionalneeds are when we're striving to
do all of the things right.
We've got to be able to balanceour effort with our emotional
well-being, while also keepingin mind all of these external

(25:51):
limitations.
If we can do that, then we'llhave that healthy,
growth-oriented approach that weneed for our programs, without
doing too much, without feelingsolely responsible for the
outcomes and without burning out.
You know, I tell you this everyweek and I'm never, ever going

(26:13):
to stop because I believe sopassionately in it.
This is exactly why we built ourSchool for School Counselors
mastermind.
We wanted school counselors tohave a safe place for case
consultation, for professionalsupport, where they don't feel
judged by others in their schoolbuilding, where we have the

(26:34):
ability to be very real andhonest about situations and get
a wealth of feedback from peoplewho have not only been there
but have been there in differentcircumstances, so that we can
create really comprehensivepictures of what our next steps
are going to be and that we'renot alone in the challenges that
we confront each day.

(26:55):
I would love for you to be partof the mastermind with us.
We are growing, ourconversations are getting more
and more dynamic and I'm tellingyou it is the place to be.
You can check out theinformation on our website,
schoolforschoolcounselorscomslash mastermind.
We have a chair waiting for youalways, and we just recently

(27:16):
transferred our online group toa new platform.
We're experimenting with it.
We are very excited about it.
So if you wanna check that outas well, head over to
schoolforschoolcounselorscom.
Slash mastermind.
All right.
Well, I so enjoyed ourconversation today.
I hope you enjoyed it too.

(27:38):
And just keeping things inperspective, being mindful about
our stress levels, how weconfront our stress, how we can
make it positive and proactivewithout going too far and living
in la-la land where we startburning ourselves out.
I hope that you took some ofthis to heart and have made

(27:59):
plans to apply some of thethings we've talked about in
your work in school counselingas you head back to your school
campus.
This is important stuff.
It's heavy stuff, but it's alsogoing to make you better and
better at your craft so that youcan not only grow as a
professional counselor, but as athinker, as a leader on your

(28:21):
campus, so that you can become ago-to voice when situations get
kind of intense, youradministrators, your teachers
are going to seek you out andwant to hear what you have to
say.
Because you have this clarityof mind, because you're able to
remain centered and a voice ofreason when everyone around you
is stressed to the max.

(28:42):
That's what I want for you and,as you're working that
direction, I hope that this weekyou have the best week ever.
I'll be back soon with anotherpodcast episode, but in the
meantime, take care of yourself,be mindful about the way you're
conceptualizing your stress,and I will see you again very

(29:03):
soon.
Take care.
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