April 6, 2026 • 30 mins
Most people hear “psych” and picture two options: talk therapy or life-altering medication. Whar so many of us miss is an entire world of careers. I sit down with licensed clinical psychologist Dr. Christal Badour to make the landscape of psychology finally feel clear, practical, and real, including what psychologists do, what psychiatrists do, and why that difference matters for patients.
We get specific about scientific psychology and evidence based mental health care. Dr. Badour walks us through what psychology research can look like, from brain MRI studies and genetics to applied studies on risk factors, PTSD, panic disorder, and which treatment approaches help the most people. We talk about the less visible but high impact work too: implementation science, training clinicians to use proven tools, and translating findings into policy so insurance reimbursement supports the best care instead of blocking access. If research has ever felt intimidating, this conversation reframes it as a skill you can learn and a space where curiosity matters more than perfection.
Then we shift into trauma psychology, trauma informed care, and what surprises her across survivors of different kinds of violence, including systemic trauma and war related experiences seen through telehealth. We explore the common emotional thread of self blame, guilt, and shame, and why the first response from a healthcare provider can shape recovery. Dr. Badour also explains forensic psychology, including assessments for personal injury, disability, sentencing mitigation, and immigration or asylum cases, plus what inspired her public education platform ScienceForSurvivors.com.
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Ashley Love (00:00):
Let's talk about psych definitions.
Most students think psychologymeans talk therapy, or that
psychiatry is the only way towork with the mind.
But what if there's an entireworld in between that no one has
really explained to you?
Today I am sitting down withlicensed clinical psychologist
Dr.
Crystal Bador, and we areunpacking the full landscape of
(00:24):
psychology, from clinicalpractice and trauma care to
research, brain MRIs, and evenworking behind the scenes to
influence policy and insurers sopatients can actually access
treatment.
Listen, if you don't take thetime to explore this with us,
you might miss the place whereyou actually belong in medicine.
(00:47):
And it might be the perspectiveyou didn't know you were
missing.
Welcome to Shadow Me Next, apodcast where I take you into
and behind the scenes of themedical world to provide you
with a deeper understanding ofthe human side of medicine.
I'm Ashley, a physicianassistant, medical editor,
clinical preceptor, and thecreator of Shadow Me Next.
(01:08):
I invite you to join me as wetake a conversational and
personal look into the lives andminds of leaders in medicine.
This is Shadow Me Next with Dr.
Crystal Bador.
Dr.
Bador, thank you so much forjoining us today on Shadow Me
Next.
It is such a gift to have youand your expertise with us
today.
And I am thrilled about some ofthese really challenging
(01:29):
concepts that we're going todiscuss today.
So thanks for joining us.
Oh, thank you so much forhaving me.
I'm excited to be here.
So, first question is a littlebit of a getting to know you
slash getting to know thespecialty question.
And this is um really it's moredefinition-based.
There are psychiatrists andthere are psychologists, there
(01:50):
is clinical practice and thereis research, and there is
everything in between.
Just orient us a little bit tothose things and help us really
um appreciate where your role isin this very vast world of
psych.
Dr. Christal Badour (02:05):
Yes, definitely.
This is a question I get veryfrequently from college students
who are trying to decide theirown career paths because they
don't really know thedifference.
So happy to talk a little bitabout it.
Um, so I am a clinicalpsychologist, so I'll talk a
little bit about that.
But first, let me just thismake the distinction with what a
psychiatrist does.
So a psychiatrist goes tomedical school, has an MD, and
(02:28):
then specializes in thediscipline of psychiatry, uh,
focusing on understanding how todiagnose and treat mental
health disorders.
So they do receive a lot oftraining in medication
management of mental healthdisorders, as well as some
training in therapy.
Um, psychologists on the flipside, we're sort of a rare breed
(02:50):
in that we can have either aPhD degree or a psy D degree.
There are a couple of differentdoctoral level degrees in that
space.
I personally have a PhD.
It's a little bit of an odddegree in that we're trained
equally in research and clinicalpractice.
Um, whereas in psychiatry, manyuh psychiatrists who go on to
(03:10):
do research actually doresearch-intensive fellowships
afterwards.
We're trained all along the wayto integrate both.
Um, so we become can becomelicensed psychologists and
practice full-time or part-time.
Um, and what our practiceusually looks like as
psychologists is is very therapyor assessment or both focused.
(03:31):
Um, we can also do research, wecan also teach.
And so it's a pretty versatiledegree in that it really allows
a combination of a wide varietyof different activities.
Ashley Love (03:42):
That is amazing.
Thank you for thosedefinitions.
And you know, I think it'sinteresting because when we
first when we say doctornowadays, we know to ask, well,
what kind of doctor are you?
And um, you know, let's talkabout the alphabet soup, is what
we like to say after your name,right?
Um, so then as a PhD, obviouslya lot of us go to academics,
right?
We think about teaching, wethink about research, but there
(04:04):
is also obviously there's a bigelement of clinical practice.
And when you say clinicalpractice, this is this is
speaking directly with patientsabout their concerns.
Um, and you said it's aboutit's about 50-50 then.
Dr. Christal Badour (04:17):
Um it depends on the training program.
If different programs emphasizemore research training, more
clinical training.
Um, but actually, if we look atthe the job market for PhD
level psychologists, the themost common profession for
someone to have is full-timeclinical practice, where they
are meeting with patients,working with them, either
one-on-one or in group settings.
Um, and those settings reallyvary from private practice, like
(04:40):
a one-on-one or group practicewhere you might work with other
psychologists or mental healthprofessionals.
And then we see um a lot of PhDpsychologists who actually work
in hospital settings as well.
So it really can kind of runquite the gamut of what uh
people do with their degree.
Ashley Love (04:57):
That's so interesting.
So I'm imagining myself as acollege student thinking, I want
to do something in this realm,in this world.
In your opinion, how would Istart to kind of differ, aside
from shadowing amazing people onShadow Mext, how would I start
to differentiate and and reallystart to learn how to find my
place?
And what happens if I if I feellike maybe I've I taken a
(05:19):
misstep and I need to kind ofrecreate it and shift?
What tell us a little bit whatthat looks like in that field?
Great question.
Dr. Christal Badour (05:26):
So we really see students um whereas
students who are planning to goto med school, I think shadowing
is a really important part andcomponent of that.
Uh for the students who arecoming our direction, because we
really emphasize both theresearch and the clinical
practice pretty heavily, um, ouradmissions process tends to
really prioritize students whohave a firm grounding in
(05:49):
research at the undergraduatelevel.
So we really look for studentswho are interested in getting
exposure to that and helpingthem to really understand the
foundations of scientificpsychology.
Um, because we believe thatpsychological practice and
therapy really needs to be uhgrounded heavily in the science
and the evidence, so that we'redoing more than just chatting
(06:10):
with people.
I think that's a misnomer thatthat um the general public often
thinks in fact, we're we'redoing a lot of rigorous testing
of the best ways and bestapproaches to treat particular
problems.
And so we find when studentswho are interested in going in
that path, they really getimmersed in that early.
It can help them lay thegroundwork in important ways for
that next step.
Ashley Love (06:31):
Oh, thank you.
That is just the perfect, theperfect definition.
I really appreciate that.
Um, scientific psychology,we're both smiling because we
both know where thisconversation is very soon going
to lead us.
And that is a conversationabout your website and this
amazing platform you've createdabout science for survivors, but
we are not going to get thereyet because that is actually
going to be the cherry on top.
(06:52):
But um it's it's sointeresting.
So, this scientific psychology,tell us what research in
psychology, what are you, whatdoes that look like?
What are you, what are youinvestigating?
Are there patients involved?
Do, you know, do you haveprincipal investigators?
That sort of thing.
We do, we do.
And it's really broad.
Dr. Christal Badour (07:09):
It looks everywhere from um people who
are interested in more basicunderstanding at the mechanistic
level.
We have uh people working withanimals.
Um, we have people who aredoing um more genetic level
research or brain function andstructure, MRI-based research on
the more basic side.
(07:29):
Um, much more applied, we seeresearch where we're trying to
understand the risk factors thatmight lead people to develop
certain mental health problems.
We look at uh differentintervention techniques that can
be used to help people oncethey've actually already
developed a mental healthproblem.
So, how can we uh best treatdifferent issues that may
(07:51):
emerge?
Um, what's gonna be most moreeffective, say if someone has
panic disorder, as an example,um, what might most help them
address their panic symptoms?
And we're gonna test out somedifferent possibilities to see
what's gonna benefit the mostpeople.
Um we have research also evenlooking at once we have good
treatments, how do we get themout there?
How do we get make sure thatclinicians are equipped with the
(08:14):
best evidence so that whensomeone walks into their office,
they know I can use this tool.
Um, and we also havepsychologists who are doing
research on how do we thentranslate that into policy so
that we can make sure thatinsurance reimbursement is
covering the best care.
What I know, crazy concept,right?
Um, and then I think a reallyimportant part that that also um
(08:37):
happens here is that people areso different that we also
really need psychologicalresearch that looks at how do we
best translate this work forunique populations.
It's not a one size fits all.
Uh so we have a lot of culturalpsychologists who are thinking
about how can we adapt our careapproaches so that it best fits
everyone who needs care.
Ashley Love (08:58):
You I have never been interested in research.
And yet you the way you justdescribed that, now I'm it
sounds so wonderful.
It sounds so interesting and socompelling.
And I think a lot of peoplethat I've spoken with in the
past, and as PAs, we don'treally need a heavy background
in research, right?
Physician assistance, it's uhit's one of the main things that
separates us from the medicalstudents and from a lot of other
(09:18):
areas in medicine too.
Um hence why research scaresme.
So let's talk to the other,let's talk to the student who's
sitting here thinking, yeah,research scares the living
daylights out of me.
But what you just described,Dr.
Badour, sounds incredible.
Yeah, I want to influencepolicy and I want to influence
all of this change and I want toplay with MRIs.
Um that sounds great.
What for the student who maybeis now thinking about research?
(09:41):
Yeah, um, what kind ofqualities do they have to be the
smartest person in their class?
Do they need a 4.0?
What kind of qualities doesthat student really need to at
least take a step in and evensee if this water is for them?
Dr. Christal Badour (09:55):
Yeah, I would say no.
I don't think it has to be theperfect student.
I think one of the biggestchallenges, and really there is
no perfect student.
I want to just say that firstof all.
Um, but uh one of the biggestchallenges in getting involved
in research is that there'soften more students hungry for
it than there's space to do it.
So one of the biggestchallenges is finding someone
(10:15):
who's doing research that you'reinterested in, who might have
some openings.
So some of it's a little bit ofluck, a little bit of timing.
Um, but there are often onvarious campuses, there are
whole offices that are dedicatedto helping match um students
with researchers in differentspaces who might be doing the
work that you're interested in.
And I think a big piece aboutresearch are two things.
(10:37):
One is that it can feel reallyintimidating, like you said, and
many students are like, that'snot for me.
Um the other is I think findingthe right match.
So when we talk about thatwhole huge range of different
areas in psychology that onecould do research, there's
probably many of them that arevery boring to some people.
Um, and if you're in the wronglane, then you might think, oh,
(10:57):
research isn't for me.
Um, so I always encouragestudents, like, try out as much
as you can.
This is a great time whenyou're really exploring what
your career options could looklike.
I know a lot of students getearly on, like, I gotta get
locked into my career path and Ineed to build all the things so
I can stand out from the nextperson who'll be applying.
And I think there's truth tothat.
(11:17):
I mean, obviously these arecompetitive spaces, but um, I
also feel like what's the pointif you get so locked in that you
on the outcome that you missthe process and the opportunity
to really explore like whatmight excite you and sustain you
for your whole career, not justthinking about like, okay, how
do I get into that next step ofmedical school or PA school or
(11:39):
clinical psychology?
Like, I think we need to thinka little bit more broadly about
that.
Ashley Love (11:43):
I'm so glad you said that.
I want to stand up and shoutthat from the rooftops.
You're absolutely right.
When we are trying to determinewhat we want to do as
undergraduate students incollege, and we we see our end
goal, right?
MD, PA, whatever.
We see our end goal, we'regonna start checking off those
boxes.
And if you want to reach thatend goal, which newsflash uh is
(12:09):
not the end, right?
If you want to reach that,yeah, yes.
If you want to get there, youhave got to form what I like to
call this professionalnarrative, right?
These things, these boxes thatyou're checking, they have got
to communicate with each other.
And you have got to be tellinga story with what you are
choosing to focus on.
And number one, you're right,it prevents against burnout, it
(12:32):
prevents against boredom, itprevents against, well, maybe
even a nasty taste in your mouthwith research.
It's going to motivate you tostay interested.
And if you look at some of themost successful people we have
talked to on this podcast, theirstory starts way back and it
seems like it's not connected.
And then they drop a line andthey say, boom, this is where I
decided and this is where I sawwhere I'm going to be now, 15,
(12:54):
20 years from now, which is justit is just amazing.
So thank you so much for sayingthat.
Is oh, I feel great.
Thank you.
That is amazing.
Um, let's shift a little bitbecause we have talked about so
many, you know, the the thebird's eye view of your
specialty.
I would like to now startfocusing on what you what you
focus on every day, which iswhich is really trauma, it
(13:14):
sounds like, and um, and workingwith survivors, which I do want
to say, you know, you have areally beautiful line on your
website um talking about theword survivor and how it
doesn't, it doesn't necessarilyresonate with everyone and how
people describe theirexperiences in many different
ways.
Keeping that in mind, maybetell us a little bit about how
you arrived at your specialtyand um and what really what a
(13:37):
day in your life looks likeright now.
Dr. Christal Badour (13:39):
Sure.
Um, so I actually started doingtrauma psychology uh a bit from
a personal experience, uh,which I think many of us, you
know, that guides our career.
Um, so I was an undergraduateat Tulane University um uh in
2005, which is when HurricaneKatrina uh hit New Orleans.
So I was very personallyimpacted by that.
(14:00):
And so was the community that Ilived in.
Um and I found I'd always beeninterested in how people thrive
uh and recover after difficultsituations.
Um and then I just knew afterthat I had an opportunity to
work in some schools on somerecovery supports for youth who
were returning to the city on uhwhen they needed some extra
(14:22):
support.
And I thought this is what Ineed to do uh for my life.
Um and I ended up because noneof our past were linear, I
thought I would work with kidsand do disaster-based work.
Um, but through the nonlinearpathway, I over time started
working more with adults.
Uh, and I do a lot of work withum particularly women, but also
(14:44):
uh people of all genders uhwho've experienced sexual
violence or other forms ofviolence.
Um, and I found that the more Idid that work, the more it
really spoke to me.
And um, I think there's just somuch more to be done.
And I found um that theexperience of people who have
talked about how they've beenthrough these really difficult
(15:04):
situations and have been built afull and meaningful life, um,
where that's just a part oftheir story, right?
It's not their whole story.
Uh that that really hasinspired me to um to take the
career path that I have.
Ashley Love (15:19):
Incredible.
And I'm so grateful for you andthe care that you provide to
these patients is just amazing.
And and then beyond that,again, like I said, the platform
that we're going to talk aboutis just incredible.
Um, so you work, you work withsurvivors.
You mentioned mainly women or alot of women, and um that's not
all though.
I mean, you have you haveworked with patients, uh
survivors of violence, of war,of systemic trauma, um, and all
(15:43):
of this because of your yournational telehealth practice.
What has surprised you mostabout how trauma presents across
all of these differentpopulations?
We know it's not one size fitsall, but really expand on that
for us.
Dr. Christal Badour (15:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it definitely looksdifferent, and people have
different experiences dependingon the types of trauma that
they've been exposed to.
Um, and also in a lot of cases,like the support that they've
received afterward.
I think we don't give thatenough credit to think about how
people uh recover after trauma.
But I think one of the mostsurprising things actually are
(16:18):
the similarities.
Um, you know, uh, I I do I tryto do a lot of education about
PTSD, which is my post-traumaticstress disorder, which is
really kind of my specialty areawithin this.
And when people hear PTSD, theythink about war movies.
I think that's kind of the mostcommon thing we think about.
Um, but actually, some of theearliest research on recovery
(16:39):
from PTSD was in sexual assaultsurvivors.
Um, and so there are a lot ofcommonalities.
And one of the biggest threadsthat I think I see running
across is people um tend toexperience a lot of self-blame
and guilt and shame.
And I see that regardless ofthe type of trauma that people
have experienced.
(17:00):
And so one of the biggestthings I've done both in my
practice, but also I'm also aprofessor, and so I also do
research, kind of continuingthat stream of both, um, is to
try to better understand why itis that people feel responsible
for things that have happened tothem or been done to them.
Um and what can we do to help,to help them uh better
(17:23):
understand and appreciate thatactually what happened to them
is not their fault, um, and thatthey're not alone in this
process, that there are otherpeople who are feeling a similar
way.
Ashley Love (17:33):
This is a great time to pause for quality
questions, a segment on the showwhere we discuss an interview
question that you might hear atyour own pre-health interview.
The interview question here isthis Tell me about a time when
you realized that understandinga patient's behavior or
emotional experience was just asimportant as understanding
(17:54):
their diagnosis.
How did that moment change theway you approach patient care?
Think of a moment where youfocused only on the clinical
task and you missed somethinghuman.
We don't like to think aboutthis, but it is so important for
our clinical development.
Write it down and then askyourself what you would do
differently now.
(18:15):
And it doesn't just stop atquality questions.
There are more resources foryou as a prehealth student on
ShadowmeNext.com to include ournewly released application
readiness course.
So head on over tocourses.shadowmext.com and check
it out.
Community, I would imagine,would be so important in this
(18:35):
case for patients, but alsoreally, really challenging to
find, um, which is why, youknow, having a trusted health
healthcare provider or umclinician on your team is so
incredibly important.
Let's talk about forensicassessment a little bit because
this is something else that youdo.
And I think, you know, peoplehear forensics and they get so
excited.
Thank you, T E Sos.
(18:56):
Thank you, all the otherforensic podcasts.
Yeah.
Um, we just spoke to a forensicnurse who actually told us a
little bit about what forensicnursing looks like.
But I would love to hear, um,you know, in terms of trauma
psychology, what for whatforensic assessment means and
what that looks like for you,how how you get to be involved
in that.
Dr. Christal Badour (19:14):
Yeah, this has been um a real joy that I've
come to a little bit later inmy career.
Um, some people really train tospecialize in forensics.
I trained more to specialize intraditional clinical
psychology, but I found that itjust made a lot of sense with my
pathway.
So when I when I talk aboutforensic psychology, really the
distinction here is um I'maddressing questions that are
(19:36):
relevant to the legal system insome way.
So that can be really broad.
Um, but in the the space that Ideal with, this is mostly
people who have uh experiencedtrauma and the trauma that
they've experienced or thereactions to those traumatic
experiences uh complicate oraffect their legal cases that
(19:57):
they're involved in in some way.
Um so one space where thiscomes in is when people have uh
personal injury claims.
They've been injured on the jobor out in the world somewhere.
Um, and whatever has happenedto them has led them to develop
some uh trauma-relatedconditions, maybe depression,
maybe PTSD, maybe increasedanxiety.
(20:20):
And um an attorney would reachout to someone like me to
actually do an assessment todetermine whether or not they
are experiencing psychologicaldifficulties and whether that's
likely to have been affected bywhatever situation is is
relevant to the to the courtcase.
Um that's one space.
And then also see it uh forpeople who are filing for
(20:43):
disability claims, for example,might be a similar type of
process.
Um sometimes uh in in criminalcases, um, when someone has been
convicted of a crime, there's aseparate stage of sentencing to
determine what the consequenceshould be for uh for the crime.
And sometimes defense attorneysmay be looking for a forensic
(21:07):
psychologist to meet with theirclient to do some work called
sentencing mitigation, wherewhat we would do is actually
assess that person to determinewhether traumatic events they've
had in their life may have hadsome impact on the decision
making that that personunderwent when they uh engaged
in a crime.
(21:27):
Um, so that's another spacewhere someone like me might come
in.
And then another space that Iam just starting to do some work
in that I'm very excited aboutis immigration and human rights
cases, um, where there are anumber of different spaces in
the law to help support peoplewho have experienced violence.
(21:48):
And this might not just beimmigration, this can be for
citizens as well.
Um, but in many cases, peoplewho are here seeking asylum or
who are here um potentiallyundocumented.
But they have importantinformation.
Like let's say they live in acommunity where they've been a
witness to a crime.
You know, of course, lawenforcement would like them to
(22:09):
cooperate, but they might beafraid of their immigration
status and that that might causecomplications for them.
So there are actually somelegal protections in place that
can help them to participate inthe justice system in unique
ways.
And so oftentimes apsychologist like me would be
brought in to help to assess theperson and see if they meet
(22:33):
qualifications for that.
Like when someone is seekingasylum because they've had to
flee their country due toviolence or persecution, we
might come in to assess andlearn a little bit more about
their background and see if itreally fits those legal
definitions to support theircase.
So really a huge range ofdifferent things that a trauma
psychologist could be doing inthe forensic space that I think
(22:56):
has a really important role.
Ashley Love (22:58):
Oh my gosh, yes.
And especially nowadays, andyou know, we like to keep these
episodes evergreen.
So I try not to talk about hottopics too much, but especially
nowadays, those immigrationservices that you are providing,
that's incredible.
You know, I think I think weall talk about how broken the
system is.
We don't very often talk aboutthe people who are sitting in
(23:18):
the system trying to fix thisbroken system, which is exactly
where you are.
And knowing that there arepeople like you standing right
there helping both sides is justincredible.
And I'm I'm so grateful foryou.
I cannot imagine that would bea very easy job, but you know
what?
Most of what you do is probablynot a very easy job.
Dr. Christal Badour (23:39):
You know, it's not.
It's not, but it's really,really rewarding, I will say.
Ashley Love (23:43):
Much like how you founded science for survivors, I
cannot imagine that that was aneasy thing.
It is just an incredible gift.
You are a professor, aclinician, you have a legal
system, an immigrationexperience.
This sets you up so well tohelp develop accessible guidance
for so many people in this inthe world of psychology.
You know, we talk, we speak inlanguages that are very, very
(24:07):
different from the layperson.
And I would imagine that youjust have seen how this impacts
and affects people.
Um tell us about science forsurvivors and primarily tell us
about what gaps in healthcareyou saw that inspired you to
create this incredible platform.
Dr. Christal Badour (24:23):
Yeah.
Um, thank you.
It's uh, you know, I've beenworking in this space now for
longer than I care to admit, andthere's just wonderful research
and treatments that have beendeveloped.
And the big gaps I was seeinguh were that the everyday person
who needed support in traumarecovery didn't know where to
look, couldn't couldn't navigatehow to find good care, or even,
(24:47):
you know, there's all kinds ofcare out there, but it's it's so
difficult to know what do Ineed?
What's going to actually helpme if they can access it at all?
Um and I found that that justfelt so unsatisfying to be
spending so much time on theresearch and training side in my
role as a professor and feelinglike there's this cliff where
(25:08):
the work just falls off.
And I work a lot in incommunities.
I also uh serve on a board forour local rape crisis center.
So I see a lot of people incrisis who are coming in like
that first stage of support thatthey need.
And then I just see them wehave a wonderful support system
that it's very underfunded.
And so I see them just runninginto these barriers after
(25:31):
barriers after barriers.
And so I thought, well, youknow, in all my extra free time,
which I don't have, but I'mjust gonna add it on anyway.
Um, I wanted to start somethingthat uh would allow me to be a
little have my hands a littlebit more in some of the direct
practice, doing therapy withsurvivors, doing forensic
(25:51):
assessments.
But then also a big componentof this, which is I think what
you were uh alluding to there,is public science education.
Yes.
Uh so we as scientists do aterrible job of communicating
what we do and why people shouldcare about it.
Uh, we need our own marketers,like we really do.
Um and so I'm not great.
(26:12):
I mean, I'm learning thisprocess as I go along too,
because I am I do not have amarketing background, but I have
worked for many years in havingconversations with people in
the community and doing sort ofum, I try to do like bring
science to the bar.
We have like a lot of differentevents like that where people
can just come in and yeah, it'sso fun.
And I found I feel reallypassionate about that and like
(26:34):
conversations like this, wherewhere you and I sit down and we
talk about okay, how do you makescience accessible and exciting
and less intimidating?
Um, and so that's really whereScience for Survivor started is
I want to take all thisinformation that I've been so
privileged to be able to accessbecause I you've got to go to
college, because I got to go tograduate school, because I'm a
(26:56):
professor.
And I want to use that in a waythat makes it so that the
everyday person who might bestruggling, might have
questions, can come and say,What do I do?
And how do I know I can trustit?
So that's really what Sciencefor Survivors is about at the
end of the day.
Ashley Love (27:12):
That's incredible.
And it is such a gift.
The only way that we are goingto help protect trust in our
clinicians and the people thatare are really weaving
themselves into our lives andour healthcare is to get into
communication with them, to getinto conversation with them.
And I love the fact that youhave made this so easily
accessible atscienceforsurvivors.com.
Um, it's an incredible gift.
(27:33):
It's a great place to start.
Take a look, please share itwith your family members and
your friends.
Um, it just opens the doors toexactly to what you were talking
about, to making this a littlebit more palatable for the
average person, which is soimportant.
Um, as we wrap up here, and ontop of all of the incredible
things that you have done inyour career, you've also given a
(27:54):
TEDx talk.
And in your TEDx talk, youexplored how stigma and science
shape trauma care.
So speaking directly to theperson who is a future clinician
right now, what is one thingabout trauma that you wish we
were learning about in ourhealthcare training?
Dr. Christal Badour (28:14):
I think one of the biggest things I see,
because I've actually done sometraining for uh medical students
and how do we address this?
And what I've seen is um a lotof times I think students feel
very intimidated.
They want to help, they want toask about these things, but
they don't feel like they havethe right tools to ask about
trauma.
And then if someone says, yes,I'm feeling unsafe or this has
(28:38):
happened to me, I've talked witha lot of people, both students
and um clinicians in practicewho say, I don't know what to do
if they tell me that.
Right.
And so I would say I think the,and I do think this is
something that needs to changeoverall in our education and
training systems, um, whereregardless of our discipline,
trauma is so broad and affectsso many different parts of our
(29:00):
lives.
Um, that I think all medicalprofessionals, uh, regardless of
the spaces that we work in,need some level of training so
that when these things come up,they feel like they know how to
address it in a supportive way.
Because that first time thatsomeone discloses that something
has happened to them, that's sokey for their recovery.
(29:21):
And to know that you can trusta provider is going to respond
in a supportive andnon-stigmatizing way, it can
make all of the difference.
Uh, and so my hope for traineesis to recognize that it is
important to talk about thesethings.
And if you're gonna say onething to a survivor who
discloses to you, I would say,and I talk about this in my TED
(29:42):
talk, if you say only one thing,it's that I believe you.
Um, and it is not your fault.
And there are resources thatcan help.
Ashley Love (29:51):
Absolutely incredible.
Dr.
Crystal Bajour, you areamazing.
I am so grateful for you forwhat you're doing with
scienceforsurvivors.com and umand the research that you're
contributing to this world.
Thank you so much, and thanksfor joining us today on Shadow
Me Next.
Thank you so much, Ashley.
Thank you so very much forlistening to this episode of
(30:13):
Shadow Me Next.
If you liked this episode or ifyou think it could be useful
for a friend, please subscribeand invite them to join us next
Monday.
As always, if you have anyquestions, let me know on
Facebook or Instagram.
Access you want, stories youneed, you're always invited to
Shadow Me Next.
Please keep in mind that thecontent of this podcast is
(30:34):
intended for informational andentertainment purposes only and
should not be considered asprofessional medical advice.
The views and opinionsexpressed in this podcast are
those of the host and guests,and do not necessarily reflect
the official policy or positionof any other agency,
organization, employer, orcompany.
Let's talk about psych definitions.
Most students think psychologymeans talk therapy, or that
psychiatry is the only way towork with the mind.
But what if there's an entireworld in between that no one has
really explained to you?
Today I am sitting down withlicensed clinical psychologist
Dr.
Crystal Bador, and we areunpacking the full landscape of
(00:24):
psychology, from clinicalpractice and trauma care to
research, brain MRIs, and evenworking behind the scenes to
influence policy and insurers sopatients can actually access
treatment.
Listen, if you don't take thetime to explore this with us,
you might miss the place whereyou actually belong in medicine.
(00:47):
And it might be the perspectiveyou didn't know you were
missing.
Welcome to Shadow Me Next, apodcast where I take you into
and behind the scenes of themedical world to provide you
with a deeper understanding ofthe human side of medicine.
I'm Ashley, a physicianassistant, medical editor,
clinical preceptor, and thecreator of Shadow Me Next.
(01:08):
I invite you to join me as wetake a conversational and
personal look into the lives andminds of leaders in medicine.
This is Shadow Me Next with Dr.
Crystal Bador.
Dr.
Bador, thank you so much forjoining us today on Shadow Me
Next.
It is such a gift to have youand your expertise with us
today.
And I am thrilled about some ofthese really challenging
(01:29):
concepts that we're going todiscuss today.
So thanks for joining us.
Oh, thank you so much forhaving me.
I'm excited to be here.
So, first question is a littlebit of a getting to know you
slash getting to know thespecialty question.
And this is um really it's moredefinition-based.
There are psychiatrists andthere are psychologists, there
(01:50):
is clinical practice and thereis research, and there is
everything in between.
Just orient us a little bit tothose things and help us really
um appreciate where your role isin this very vast world of
psych.
Dr. Christal Badour (02:05):
Yes, definitely.
This is a question I get veryfrequently from college students
who are trying to decide theirown career paths because they
don't really know thedifference.
So happy to talk a little bitabout it.
Um, so I am a clinicalpsychologist, so I'll talk a
little bit about that.
But first, let me just thismake the distinction with what a
psychiatrist does.
So a psychiatrist goes tomedical school, has an MD, and
(02:28):
then specializes in thediscipline of psychiatry, uh,
focusing on understanding how todiagnose and treat mental
health disorders.
So they do receive a lot oftraining in medication
management of mental healthdisorders, as well as some
training in therapy.
Um, psychologists on the flipside, we're sort of a rare breed
(02:50):
in that we can have either aPhD degree or a psy D degree.
There are a couple of differentdoctoral level degrees in that
space.
I personally have a PhD.
It's a little bit of an odddegree in that we're trained
equally in research and clinicalpractice.
Um, whereas in psychiatry, manyuh psychiatrists who go on to
(03:10):
do research actually doresearch-intensive fellowships
afterwards.
We're trained all along the wayto integrate both.
Um, so we become can becomelicensed psychologists and
practice full-time or part-time.
Um, and what our practiceusually looks like as
psychologists is is very therapyor assessment or both focused.
(03:31):
Um, we can also do research, wecan also teach.
And so it's a pretty versatiledegree in that it really allows
a combination of a wide varietyof different activities.
Ashley Love (03:42):
That is amazing.
Thank you for thosedefinitions.
And you know, I think it'sinteresting because when we
first when we say doctornowadays, we know to ask, well,
what kind of doctor are you?
And um, you know, let's talkabout the alphabet soup, is what
we like to say after your name,right?
Um, so then as a PhD, obviouslya lot of us go to academics,
right?
We think about teaching, wethink about research, but there
(04:04):
is also obviously there's a bigelement of clinical practice.
And when you say clinicalpractice, this is this is
speaking directly with patientsabout their concerns.
Um, and you said it's aboutit's about 50-50 then.
Dr. Christal Badour (04:17):
Um it depends on the training program.
If different programs emphasizemore research training, more
clinical training.
Um, but actually, if we look atthe the job market for PhD
level psychologists, the themost common profession for
someone to have is full-timeclinical practice, where they
are meeting with patients,working with them, either
one-on-one or in group settings.
Um, and those settings reallyvary from private practice, like
(04:40):
a one-on-one or group practicewhere you might work with other
psychologists or mental healthprofessionals.
And then we see um a lot of PhDpsychologists who actually work
in hospital settings as well.
So it really can kind of runquite the gamut of what uh
people do with their degree.
Ashley Love (04:57):
That's so interesting.
So I'm imagining myself as acollege student thinking, I want
to do something in this realm,in this world.
In your opinion, how would Istart to kind of differ, aside
from shadowing amazing people onShadow Mext, how would I start
to differentiate and and reallystart to learn how to find my
place?
And what happens if I if I feellike maybe I've I taken a
(05:19):
misstep and I need to kind ofrecreate it and shift?
What tell us a little bit whatthat looks like in that field?
Great question.
Dr. Christal Badour (05:26):
So we really see students um whereas
students who are planning to goto med school, I think shadowing
is a really important part andcomponent of that.
Uh for the students who arecoming our direction, because we
really emphasize both theresearch and the clinical
practice pretty heavily, um, ouradmissions process tends to
really prioritize students whohave a firm grounding in
(05:49):
research at the undergraduatelevel.
So we really look for studentswho are interested in getting
exposure to that and helpingthem to really understand the
foundations of scientificpsychology.
Um, because we believe thatpsychological practice and
therapy really needs to be uhgrounded heavily in the science
and the evidence, so that we'redoing more than just chatting
(06:10):
with people.
I think that's a misnomer thatthat um the general public often
thinks in fact, we're we'redoing a lot of rigorous testing
of the best ways and bestapproaches to treat particular
problems.
And so we find when studentswho are interested in going in
that path, they really getimmersed in that early.
It can help them lay thegroundwork in important ways for
that next step.
Ashley Love (06:31):
Oh, thank you.
That is just the perfect, theperfect definition.
I really appreciate that.
Um, scientific psychology,we're both smiling because we
both know where thisconversation is very soon going
to lead us.
And that is a conversationabout your website and this
amazing platform you've createdabout science for survivors, but
we are not going to get thereyet because that is actually
going to be the cherry on top.
(06:52):
But um it's it's sointeresting.
So, this scientific psychology,tell us what research in
psychology, what are you, whatdoes that look like?
What are you, what are youinvestigating?
Are there patients involved?
Do, you know, do you haveprincipal investigators?
That sort of thing.
We do, we do.
And it's really broad.
Dr. Christal Badour (07:09):
It looks everywhere from um people who
are interested in more basicunderstanding at the mechanistic
level.
We have uh people working withanimals.
Um, we have people who aredoing um more genetic level
research or brain function andstructure, MRI-based research on
the more basic side.
(07:29):
Um, much more applied, we seeresearch where we're trying to
understand the risk factors thatmight lead people to develop
certain mental health problems.
We look at uh differentintervention techniques that can
be used to help people oncethey've actually already
developed a mental healthproblem.
So, how can we uh best treatdifferent issues that may
(07:51):
emerge?
Um, what's gonna be most moreeffective, say if someone has
panic disorder, as an example,um, what might most help them
address their panic symptoms?
And we're gonna test out somedifferent possibilities to see
what's gonna benefit the mostpeople.
Um we have research also evenlooking at once we have good
treatments, how do we get themout there?
How do we get make sure thatclinicians are equipped with the
(08:14):
best evidence so that whensomeone walks into their office,
they know I can use this tool.
Um, and we also havepsychologists who are doing
research on how do we thentranslate that into policy so
that we can make sure thatinsurance reimbursement is
covering the best care.
What I know, crazy concept,right?
Um, and then I think a reallyimportant part that that also um
(08:37):
happens here is that people areso different that we also
really need psychologicalresearch that looks at how do we
best translate this work forunique populations.
It's not a one size fits all.
Uh so we have a lot of culturalpsychologists who are thinking
about how can we adapt our careapproaches so that it best fits
everyone who needs care.
Ashley Love (08:58):
You I have never been interested in research.
And yet you the way you justdescribed that, now I'm it
sounds so wonderful.
It sounds so interesting and socompelling.
And I think a lot of peoplethat I've spoken with in the
past, and as PAs, we don'treally need a heavy background
in research, right?
Physician assistance, it's uhit's one of the main things that
separates us from the medicalstudents and from a lot of other
(09:18):
areas in medicine too.
Um hence why research scaresme.
So let's talk to the other,let's talk to the student who's
sitting here thinking, yeah,research scares the living
daylights out of me.
But what you just described,Dr.
Badour, sounds incredible.
Yeah, I want to influencepolicy and I want to influence
all of this change and I want toplay with MRIs.
Um that sounds great.
What for the student who maybeis now thinking about research?
(09:41):
Yeah, um, what kind ofqualities do they have to be the
smartest person in their class?
Do they need a 4.0?
What kind of qualities doesthat student really need to at
least take a step in and evensee if this water is for them?
Dr. Christal Badour (09:55):
Yeah, I would say no.
I don't think it has to be theperfect student.
I think one of the biggestchallenges, and really there is
no perfect student.
I want to just say that firstof all.
Um, but uh one of the biggestchallenges in getting involved
in research is that there'soften more students hungry for
it than there's space to do it.
So one of the biggestchallenges is finding someone
(10:15):
who's doing research that you'reinterested in, who might have
some openings.
So some of it's a little bit ofluck, a little bit of timing.
Um, but there are often onvarious campuses, there are
whole offices that are dedicatedto helping match um students
with researchers in differentspaces who might be doing the
work that you're interested in.
And I think a big piece aboutresearch are two things.
(10:37):
One is that it can feel reallyintimidating, like you said, and
many students are like, that'snot for me.
Um the other is I think findingthe right match.
So when we talk about thatwhole huge range of different
areas in psychology that onecould do research, there's
probably many of them that arevery boring to some people.
Um, and if you're in the wronglane, then you might think, oh,
(10:57):
research isn't for me.
Um, so I always encouragestudents, like, try out as much
as you can.
This is a great time whenyou're really exploring what
your career options could looklike.
I know a lot of students getearly on, like, I gotta get
locked into my career path and Ineed to build all the things so
I can stand out from the nextperson who'll be applying.
And I think there's truth tothat.
(11:17):
I mean, obviously these arecompetitive spaces, but um, I
also feel like what's the pointif you get so locked in that you
on the outcome that you missthe process and the opportunity
to really explore like whatmight excite you and sustain you
for your whole career, not justthinking about like, okay, how
do I get into that next step ofmedical school or PA school or
(11:39):
clinical psychology?
Like, I think we need to thinka little bit more broadly about
that.
Ashley Love (11:43):
I'm so glad you said that.
I want to stand up and shoutthat from the rooftops.
You're absolutely right.
When we are trying to determinewhat we want to do as
undergraduate students incollege, and we we see our end
goal, right?
MD, PA, whatever.
We see our end goal, we'regonna start checking off those
boxes.
And if you want to reach thatend goal, which newsflash uh is
(12:09):
not the end, right?
If you want to reach that,yeah, yes.
If you want to get there, youhave got to form what I like to
call this professionalnarrative, right?
These things, these boxes thatyou're checking, they have got
to communicate with each other.
And you have got to be tellinga story with what you are
choosing to focus on.
And number one, you're right,it prevents against burnout, it
(12:32):
prevents against boredom, itprevents against, well, maybe
even a nasty taste in your mouthwith research.
It's going to motivate you tostay interested.
And if you look at some of themost successful people we have
talked to on this podcast, theirstory starts way back and it
seems like it's not connected.
And then they drop a line andthey say, boom, this is where I
decided and this is where I sawwhere I'm going to be now, 15,
(12:54):
20 years from now, which is justit is just amazing.
So thank you so much for sayingthat.
Is oh, I feel great.
Thank you.
That is amazing.
Um, let's shift a little bitbecause we have talked about so
many, you know, the the thebird's eye view of your
specialty.
I would like to now startfocusing on what you what you
focus on every day, which iswhich is really trauma, it
(13:14):
sounds like, and um, and workingwith survivors, which I do want
to say, you know, you have areally beautiful line on your
website um talking about theword survivor and how it
doesn't, it doesn't necessarilyresonate with everyone and how
people describe theirexperiences in many different
ways.
Keeping that in mind, maybetell us a little bit about how
you arrived at your specialtyand um and what really what a
(13:37):
day in your life looks likeright now.
Dr. Christal Badour (13:39):
Sure.
Um, so I actually started doingtrauma psychology uh a bit from
a personal experience, uh,which I think many of us, you
know, that guides our career.
Um, so I was an undergraduateat Tulane University um uh in
2005, which is when HurricaneKatrina uh hit New Orleans.
So I was very personallyimpacted by that.
(14:00):
And so was the community that Ilived in.
Um and I found I'd always beeninterested in how people thrive
uh and recover after difficultsituations.
Um and then I just knew afterthat I had an opportunity to
work in some schools on somerecovery supports for youth who
were returning to the city on uhwhen they needed some extra
(14:22):
support.
And I thought this is what Ineed to do uh for my life.
Um and I ended up because noneof our past were linear, I
thought I would work with kidsand do disaster-based work.
Um, but through the nonlinearpathway, I over time started
working more with adults.
Uh, and I do a lot of work withum particularly women, but also
(14:44):
uh people of all genders uhwho've experienced sexual
violence or other forms ofviolence.
Um, and I found that the more Idid that work, the more it
really spoke to me.
And um, I think there's just somuch more to be done.
And I found um that theexperience of people who have
talked about how they've beenthrough these really difficult
(15:04):
situations and have been built afull and meaningful life, um,
where that's just a part oftheir story, right?
It's not their whole story.
Uh that that really hasinspired me to um to take the
career path that I have.
Ashley Love (15:19):
Incredible.
And I'm so grateful for you andthe care that you provide to
these patients is just amazing.
And and then beyond that,again, like I said, the platform
that we're going to talk aboutis just incredible.
Um, so you work, you work withsurvivors.
You mentioned mainly women or alot of women, and um that's not
all though.
I mean, you have you haveworked with patients, uh
survivors of violence, of war,of systemic trauma, um, and all
(15:43):
of this because of your yournational telehealth practice.
What has surprised you mostabout how trauma presents across
all of these differentpopulations?
We know it's not one size fitsall, but really expand on that
for us.
Dr. Christal Badour (15:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it definitely looksdifferent, and people have
different experiences dependingon the types of trauma that
they've been exposed to.
Um, and also in a lot of cases,like the support that they've
received afterward.
I think we don't give thatenough credit to think about how
people uh recover after trauma.
But I think one of the mostsurprising things actually are
(16:18):
the similarities.
Um, you know, uh, I I do I tryto do a lot of education about
PTSD, which is my post-traumaticstress disorder, which is
really kind of my specialty areawithin this.
And when people hear PTSD, theythink about war movies.
I think that's kind of the mostcommon thing we think about.
Um, but actually, some of theearliest research on recovery
(16:39):
from PTSD was in sexual assaultsurvivors.
Um, and so there are a lot ofcommonalities.
And one of the biggest threadsthat I think I see running
across is people um tend toexperience a lot of self-blame
and guilt and shame.
And I see that regardless ofthe type of trauma that people
have experienced.
(17:00):
And so one of the biggestthings I've done both in my
practice, but also I'm also aprofessor, and so I also do
research, kind of continuingthat stream of both, um, is to
try to better understand why itis that people feel responsible
for things that have happened tothem or been done to them.
Um and what can we do to help,to help them uh better
(17:23):
understand and appreciate thatactually what happened to them
is not their fault, um, and thatthey're not alone in this
process, that there are otherpeople who are feeling a similar
way.
Ashley Love (17:33):
This is a great time to pause for quality
questions, a segment on the showwhere we discuss an interview
question that you might hear atyour own pre-health interview.
The interview question here isthis Tell me about a time when
you realized that understandinga patient's behavior or
emotional experience was just asimportant as understanding
(17:54):
their diagnosis.
How did that moment change theway you approach patient care?
Think of a moment where youfocused only on the clinical
task and you missed somethinghuman.
We don't like to think aboutthis, but it is so important for
our clinical development.
Write it down and then askyourself what you would do
differently now.
(18:15):
And it doesn't just stop atquality questions.
There are more resources foryou as a prehealth student on
ShadowmeNext.com to include ournewly released application
readiness course.
So head on over tocourses.shadowmext.com and check
it out.
Community, I would imagine,would be so important in this
(18:35):
case for patients, but alsoreally, really challenging to
find, um, which is why, youknow, having a trusted health
healthcare provider or umclinician on your team is so
incredibly important.
Let's talk about forensicassessment a little bit because
this is something else that youdo.
And I think, you know, peoplehear forensics and they get so
excited.
Thank you, T E Sos.
(18:56):
Thank you, all the otherforensic podcasts.
Yeah.
Um, we just spoke to a forensicnurse who actually told us a
little bit about what forensicnursing looks like.
But I would love to hear, um,you know, in terms of trauma
psychology, what for whatforensic assessment means and
what that looks like for you,how how you get to be involved
in that.
Dr. Christal Badour (19:14):
Yeah, this has been um a real joy that I've
come to a little bit later inmy career.
Um, some people really train tospecialize in forensics.
I trained more to specialize intraditional clinical
psychology, but I found that itjust made a lot of sense with my
pathway.
So when I when I talk aboutforensic psychology, really the
distinction here is um I'maddressing questions that are
(19:36):
relevant to the legal system insome way.
So that can be really broad.
Um, but in the the space that Ideal with, this is mostly
people who have uh experiencedtrauma and the trauma that
they've experienced or thereactions to those traumatic
experiences uh complicate oraffect their legal cases that
(19:57):
they're involved in in some way.
Um so one space where thiscomes in is when people have uh
personal injury claims.
They've been injured on the jobor out in the world somewhere.
Um, and whatever has happenedto them has led them to develop
some uh trauma-relatedconditions, maybe depression,
maybe PTSD, maybe increasedanxiety.
(20:20):
And um an attorney would reachout to someone like me to
actually do an assessment todetermine whether or not they
are experiencing psychologicaldifficulties and whether that's
likely to have been affected bywhatever situation is is
relevant to the to the courtcase.
Um that's one space.
And then also see it uh forpeople who are filing for
(20:43):
disability claims, for example,might be a similar type of
process.
Um sometimes uh in in criminalcases, um, when someone has been
convicted of a crime, there's aseparate stage of sentencing to
determine what the consequenceshould be for uh for the crime.
And sometimes defense attorneysmay be looking for a forensic
(21:07):
psychologist to meet with theirclient to do some work called
sentencing mitigation, wherewhat we would do is actually
assess that person to determinewhether traumatic events they've
had in their life may have hadsome impact on the decision
making that that personunderwent when they uh engaged
in a crime.
(21:27):
Um, so that's another spacewhere someone like me might come
in.
And then another space that Iam just starting to do some work
in that I'm very excited aboutis immigration and human rights
cases, um, where there are anumber of different spaces in
the law to help support peoplewho have experienced violence.
(21:48):
And this might not just beimmigration, this can be for
citizens as well.
Um, but in many cases, peoplewho are here seeking asylum or
who are here um potentiallyundocumented.
But they have importantinformation.
Like let's say they live in acommunity where they've been a
witness to a crime.
You know, of course, lawenforcement would like them to
(22:09):
cooperate, but they might beafraid of their immigration
status and that that might causecomplications for them.
So there are actually somelegal protections in place that
can help them to participate inthe justice system in unique
ways.
And so oftentimes apsychologist like me would be
brought in to help to assess theperson and see if they meet
(22:33):
qualifications for that.
Like when someone is seekingasylum because they've had to
flee their country due toviolence or persecution, we
might come in to assess andlearn a little bit more about
their background and see if itreally fits those legal
definitions to support theircase.
So really a huge range ofdifferent things that a trauma
psychologist could be doing inthe forensic space that I think
(22:56):
has a really important role.
Ashley Love (22:58):
Oh my gosh, yes.
And especially nowadays, andyou know, we like to keep these
episodes evergreen.
So I try not to talk about hottopics too much, but especially
nowadays, those immigrationservices that you are providing,
that's incredible.
You know, I think I think weall talk about how broken the
system is.
We don't very often talk aboutthe people who are sitting in
(23:18):
the system trying to fix thisbroken system, which is exactly
where you are.
And knowing that there arepeople like you standing right
there helping both sides is justincredible.
And I'm I'm so grateful foryou.
I cannot imagine that would bea very easy job, but you know
what?
Most of what you do is probablynot a very easy job.
Dr. Christal Badour (23:39):
You know, it's not.
It's not, but it's really,really rewarding, I will say.
Ashley Love (23:43):
Much like how you founded science for survivors, I
cannot imagine that that was aneasy thing.
It is just an incredible gift.
You are a professor, aclinician, you have a legal
system, an immigrationexperience.
This sets you up so well tohelp develop accessible guidance
for so many people in this inthe world of psychology.
You know, we talk, we speak inlanguages that are very, very
(24:07):
different from the layperson.
And I would imagine that youjust have seen how this impacts
and affects people.
Um tell us about science forsurvivors and primarily tell us
about what gaps in healthcareyou saw that inspired you to
create this incredible platform.
Dr. Christal Badour (24:23):
Yeah.
Um, thank you.
It's uh, you know, I've beenworking in this space now for
longer than I care to admit, andthere's just wonderful research
and treatments that have beendeveloped.
And the big gaps I was seeinguh were that the everyday person
who needed support in traumarecovery didn't know where to
look, couldn't couldn't navigatehow to find good care, or even,
(24:47):
you know, there's all kinds ofcare out there, but it's it's so
difficult to know what do Ineed?
What's going to actually helpme if they can access it at all?
Um and I found that that justfelt so unsatisfying to be
spending so much time on theresearch and training side in my
role as a professor and feelinglike there's this cliff where
(25:08):
the work just falls off.
And I work a lot in incommunities.
I also uh serve on a board forour local rape crisis center.
So I see a lot of people incrisis who are coming in like
that first stage of support thatthey need.
And then I just see them wehave a wonderful support system
that it's very underfunded.
And so I see them just runninginto these barriers after
(25:31):
barriers after barriers.
And so I thought, well, youknow, in all my extra free time,
which I don't have, but I'mjust gonna add it on anyway.
Um, I wanted to start somethingthat uh would allow me to be a
little have my hands a littlebit more in some of the direct
practice, doing therapy withsurvivors, doing forensic
(25:51):
assessments.
But then also a big componentof this, which is I think what
you were uh alluding to there,is public science education.
Yes.
Uh so we as scientists do aterrible job of communicating
what we do and why people shouldcare about it.
Uh, we need our own marketers,like we really do.
Um and so I'm not great.
(26:12):
I mean, I'm learning thisprocess as I go along too,
because I am I do not have amarketing background, but I have
worked for many years in havingconversations with people in
the community and doing sort ofum, I try to do like bring
science to the bar.
We have like a lot of differentevents like that where people
can just come in and yeah, it'sso fun.
And I found I feel reallypassionate about that and like
(26:34):
conversations like this, wherewhere you and I sit down and we
talk about okay, how do you makescience accessible and exciting
and less intimidating?
Um, and so that's really whereScience for Survivor started is
I want to take all thisinformation that I've been so
privileged to be able to accessbecause I you've got to go to
college, because I got to go tograduate school, because I'm a
(26:56):
professor.
And I want to use that in a waythat makes it so that the
everyday person who might bestruggling, might have
questions, can come and say,What do I do?
And how do I know I can trustit?
So that's really what Sciencefor Survivors is about at the
end of the day.
Ashley Love (27:12):
That's incredible.
And it is such a gift.
The only way that we are goingto help protect trust in our
clinicians and the people thatare are really weaving
themselves into our lives andour healthcare is to get into
communication with them, to getinto conversation with them.
And I love the fact that youhave made this so easily
accessible atscienceforsurvivors.com.
Um, it's an incredible gift.
(27:33):
It's a great place to start.
Take a look, please share itwith your family members and
your friends.
Um, it just opens the doors toexactly to what you were talking
about, to making this a littlebit more palatable for the
average person, which is soimportant.
Um, as we wrap up here, and ontop of all of the incredible
things that you have done inyour career, you've also given a
(27:54):
TEDx talk.
And in your TEDx talk, youexplored how stigma and science
shape trauma care.
So speaking directly to theperson who is a future clinician
right now, what is one thingabout trauma that you wish we
were learning about in ourhealthcare training?
Dr. Christal Badour (28:14):
I think one of the biggest things I see,
because I've actually done sometraining for uh medical students
and how do we address this?
And what I've seen is um a lotof times I think students feel
very intimidated.
They want to help, they want toask about these things, but
they don't feel like they havethe right tools to ask about
trauma.
And then if someone says, yes,I'm feeling unsafe or this has
(28:38):
happened to me, I've talked witha lot of people, both students
and um clinicians in practicewho say, I don't know what to do
if they tell me that.
Right.
And so I would say I think the,and I do think this is
something that needs to changeoverall in our education and
training systems, um, whereregardless of our discipline,
trauma is so broad and affectsso many different parts of our
(29:00):
lives.
Um, that I think all medicalprofessionals, uh, regardless of
the spaces that we work in,need some level of training so
that when these things come up,they feel like they know how to
address it in a supportive way.
Because that first time thatsomeone discloses that something
has happened to them, that's sokey for their recovery.
(29:21):
And to know that you can trusta provider is going to respond
in a supportive andnon-stigmatizing way, it can
make all of the difference.
Uh, and so my hope for traineesis to recognize that it is
important to talk about thesethings.
And if you're gonna say onething to a survivor who
discloses to you, I would say,and I talk about this in my TED
(29:42):
talk, if you say only one thing,it's that I believe you.
Um, and it is not your fault.
And there are resources thatcan help.
Ashley Love (29:51):
Absolutely incredible.
Dr.
Crystal Bajour, you areamazing.
I am so grateful for you forwhat you're doing with
scienceforsurvivors.com and umand the research that you're
contributing to this world.
Thank you so much, and thanksfor joining us today on Shadow
Me Next.
Thank you so much, Ashley.
Thank you so very much forlistening to this episode of
(30:13):
Shadow Me Next.
If you liked this episode or ifyou think it could be useful
for a friend, please subscribeand invite them to join us next
Monday.
As always, if you have anyquestions, let me know on
Facebook or Instagram.
Access you want, stories youneed, you're always invited to
Shadow Me Next.
Please keep in mind that thecontent of this podcast is
(30:34):
intended for informational andentertainment purposes only and
should not be considered asprofessional medical advice.
The views and opinionsexpressed in this podcast are
those of the host and guests,and do not necessarily reflect
the official policy or positionof any other agency,
organization, employer, orcompany.
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