March 9, 2026 • 34 mins
A 16-year-old with lupus asked an honest question: “How does my diet affect my disease? and it chamged everything for Kerry Jenkins. She discusses being a seasoned derm PA who traded 15-minute appointment slots and quick fixes for a slower, systems-based approach that treats skin as a mirror of the gut, immune system, liver, hormones, and stress. The story isn’t a takedown of conventional care; it’s a blueprint for pairing acute-care excellence with root-cause medicine that finally makes sense of chronic conditions.
From acne, eczema, rosacea, psoriasis, and lupus to complex fatigue and brain fog, we follow the path beyond band-aids: elimination of inflammatory drivers, smarter nutrition, sleep and stress repair, and targeted therapies that help the body do its job again. We also speak directly to clinicians and students: build a strong primary care base, know when to rule out the dangerous stuff, then integrate evidence-based lifestyle medicine. Curiosity from patients (even when sparked by Google or AI) is not a threat: it’s an invitation to partner.
If this conversation shifts how you see chronic disease, share it with a colleague, subscribe for more grounded, patient-first insights, and leave a review to help others find the show.
To connect with Kerry:
whisper health | whispering wisdom | Instagram
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Virtual shadowing is an important tool to use when planning your medical career. Whether as a doctor, a physician assistant, a therapist or nurse, here Shadow Me Next! we want to provide you with the resources you need to find your role in healthcare and understand your place in medicine.
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Ashley Love (00:00):
What if the medicine you've been chasing
isn't actually designed to solvethe problem you care about
most?
If you're a pre-med, pre-PA, orearly clinician, you have been
told that the path is simple.
Learn the guidelines, prescribethe treatment, and then move on
to the next patient.
But what happens when thetreatment works and the patient
(00:21):
still isn't better?
Today's guest, Kerry Jenkins,is a PA who spent 25 years in
dermatology before a singlepatient forced her to confront
something that most cliniciansquietly feel but rarely say out
loud.
If you have ever felt likemedicine is moving too fast to
actually heal people, thisconversation might challenge
(00:43):
everything you thought you knewabout success in healthcare.
In this episode, we unpack thequestion that no one is teaching
you how to ask.
Welcome to Shadow Me Next, apodcast where I take you into
and behind the scenes of themedical world to provide you
with a deeper understanding ofthe human side of medicine.
I'm Ashley, a physicianassistant, medical editor,
(01:06):
clinical preceptor, and thecreator of Shadow Me Next.
I invite you to join me as wetake a conversational and
personal look into the lives andminds of leaders in medicine.
This is Shadow Me Next withKerry Jenkins.
Kerry of Whisper Health.
The student who's listening,you are in for such a treat
today.
Kerry is absolutely amazing andreally truly motivated to make
(01:29):
significant lasting impacts inhealthcare across the board, but
also has a specialty that'svery near and dear and close to
my heart.
So thrilled to bring you Kerrytoday.
Thanks for joining us.
Kerry Jenkins (01:40):
Thank you so much for having me, Ashley.
It's my absolute privilege tobe here and to share this
information today.
Amazing.
Ashley Love (01:47):
So Kerry, you are a PA and you are also a um, well,
just describe your titles forus because they are very, very
interesting and something that alot of us have been looking for
recently.
Kerry Jenkins (01:58):
Awesome.
Yeah.
So I'm a PA and I came out ofschool and jumped into the
specialty of dermatology.
So I practiced dermatology for25 years.
Um and, you know, my story isthat I love my job and I, you
(02:21):
know, you kind of get caught upin doing the day-to-day things.
And I had one instance thatreally just opened my eyes, and
that led me to an entirelydifferent side of medicine.
So I am an integrative andfunctional medicine
practitioner, and in March, Iwill be celebrating eight years
of owning my own practice, whichis a huge, amazing celebration.
(02:45):
Um, and I have a generalfunctional medicine practice
where we treat all chronicillnesses, and I have a
specialty in dermatology, and Ialso have a special focus in
PCOS.
Incredible.
Ashley Love (02:59):
Oh my gosh.
First of all, Durham for 25years, eight years of owning
your own practice.
That's a lot of medicine thatyou have seen and um and a lot
of patients that you have reallytruly impacted.
And I would love to dive in tohow those two uh practices
really look different.
Um, but before we do that, youmentioned one instance in
(03:23):
practice where you know, kind ofthe you saw the light and
things, things started to shiftfor you.
I think this is a reallyinteresting story to talk to a
lot of clinicians about becauseI think for some clinicians,
it's a it's a it's a slow boil,right?
They start to feel things, theystart to feel dates, but for
others, it's a very interestingkind of one-time boom where they
realize, hold on, you know,kind of tires on the tires on
(03:46):
the road.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that moment?
Kerry Jenkins (03:50):
I can, and I'll keep it the abbreviated version.
I'm I'm very blessed to havetwo amazing uh young ladies that
I that I call my daughters.
And when my youngest was 12years old, she started having
some belly complaints, and Ireally didn't know what was
going on with her.
Um, and I kind of ignored herbecause I really didn't know
what to do.
And I knew that if I took herto the pediatrician, they'd do
(04:10):
an amazing workup.
The workup wasn't the problem.
I just knew deep down in mysoul that that workup was not
gonna uncover what was going onfor her.
So I started doing what everypatient does, and I started
going down rabbit holes.
I got on Google.
I got, you know, I waslistening to podcasts and
watching, you know, webinars,and I was reading books, and I
just was in the community andGoogling and researching, and
(04:33):
this whole concept ofintegrative and functional
medicine kept popping up.
And and when you Googlefunctional medicine, and
Wikipedia has a really nasty umpage on what functional medicine
is.
They they pretty much call itvoodoo and witchcraft.
I read that and it was verybristling to me.
I was like, ooh, I don't wantto be associated with that.
(04:55):
I practice medicine.
I was trained conventionally, Iam a practicing provider.
So I really um I hesitatedembracing that title and that
that language.
And I will be very, you know,transparent that that my body
whispered to me for a very longperiod of time.
Like it kept nudging me to justinvestigate further, be open,
(05:20):
have an open mind.
And just like in medicine, ifyour body, if you, if your body
starts whispering to you and youignore it, it starts speaking
to you.
And if you listen, if youignore the speaking terms, then
it starts yelling.
And if you ignore that, thenyou're really in a whole hell
bit of trouble.
So I was getting nudged to, youknow, just keep an open mind.
And I kept, I kept researchingand learning.
(05:42):
And I had one profoundexperience.
It was um a day in clinic, andit was my last patient of the
day, and my medical assistantuh, you know, presented this
patient to me.
It was a 16-year-oldAfrican-American female who had
just been diagnosed with lupus,and we were her very next stop.
So I went in and sat down infront of this 16-year-old, and I
(06:03):
put my, I sit on a little rolystool and I put my hands on her
and I introduced myself and Isaid, Tell me what's going on.
What, you know, why are youhere?
And she was with her aunt andher grandmother.
Her mother was not able toattend the visit, and she said,
Um, my aunt and my grandmotherhave lupus, and I was just
diagnosed with lupus, and Ireally need you to explain to me
(06:25):
how my diet affects my disease.
Ashley Love (06:28):
This is a great time to pause for quality
questions, a segment on the showwhere we talk about an
interview question that youmight hear on your own
pre-health interview.
The interview question here isthis Tell us about a time when
you witnessed or experienceduncertainty in a clinical
setting.
How did the clinician respond?
How did the patient respond?
(06:48):
And what did that moment teachyou about the kind of health
care professional you hope tobecome?
So, one of the biggestmisconceptions that pre-health
students have is that greatclinicians always know the
answer.
They do not.
Some of the best clinicians Ihave ever worked with have been
the first to say, I don't knowyet, but I am going to find out.
(07:11):
Medicine is not about knowingeverything, it's about being
honest, curious, and committedto figuring out things for the
patient sitting in front of you.
And it doesn't just stop atquality questions.
There are more resources foryou as a prehealth student on
ShadowMenext.com to include ournewly released application
(07:33):
readiness course.
So head on over tocourses.shadowmext.com and check
it out.
Kerry Jenkins (07:39):
And Ashley, it was like thunderstruck in that
visit room.
I almost fell off my rolystool.
I turned around and looked atmy my medical assistant because
she knew what I had been goingthrough.
And I looked at her and I had amoment where I had to compose
myself because I was so reallyjust shaken up.
(08:02):
And I put my hands up and Isaid, Okay, I have received,
I've I hear you, I have receivedthe message loud and clear.
And I was very transparent withthat 16-year-old and I said to
her, Listen, I don't have theanswer for you, but we will
figure it out together.
That was the beginning of myjourney.
(08:22):
And I I drove 30 minutes homefrom clinic that day.
I rolled the windows down, Ihad the radio off, and I just
sat with myself.
And it was kind of like theangel and the devil on my
shoulder.
You can do this, Kerry.
It's it's what you're callingis.
You're passionate about it,you're getting signals from the
universe.
And then the devil is sittingon the opposite shoulder, and it
(08:43):
was the, you know, absolutepanic and um the voice, like,
who do you think you are?
You can't open your ownpractice, you can't manage a
practice, you've never been tobusiness school, you don't know
how to do that.
Who do you think you are tryingto step outside your comfort
zone and doing something likethat?
And I will say, I struggledwith that for a very long time
(09:04):
until the angel finally went outand shut the devil up.
And I jumped off a cliff and Isaid, I'm either going to die
trying and I'm gonna fail, butat least I will know that I
tried rather than not evertrying.
And almost eight years later,here we are.
Ashley Love (09:20):
I have goosebumps.
I had major goosebumps when youdescribed the question that
that patient asked you.
Um, I mean, how much, how muchlouder and clearer could that
calling have been?
And you know, there's there'ssomething really important here
that I want to make sure that wehit on.
And that is sometimes we speakflippantly about shifting
(09:41):
careers, and especially as PAs.
Because what does every pre-PAstudent say?
The reason is for them goinginto our profession, because I
like the lateral mobility.
I like the ability to move fromone specialty to the next,
happy, flowy, no problems, it'seasy, etc.
And what I want to impress oneverybody, including myself who
(10:02):
has ever had that thought isthese are not easy changes.
System systematically, yes,it's a little bit easier to make
a shift.
These are major, majordecisions that we make.
Um, number one, to shift fromspecialties, especially as a PA.
Number two, to take on a wholenew venture like you did, moving
(10:25):
not only from a different intoa totally different specialty,
but also becoming a businessowner and likely changing the
way that you practice entirely,um, which I do want to talk a
little bit about.
You know, we'll describe daysin your life, uh, one versus the
other.
Um, but again, before we moveon too far, I do want to I do
want to mention that um it wasyour child that kind of started
(10:46):
this journey into functionalmedicine.
And I I think it's sointeresting because as parents,
I'm a parent, you're a parent,I've spoken to a number of
clinicians who are also parentsand integrative and functional
medicine practitioners.
And a lot of times it is theirchildren who have some type of
um illness or disease that theyare frustrated because they're
(11:07):
not getting the answers.
As clinicians, they're stillnot getting the answers that
they want.
And I just I think it's soimportant to realize that as
clinicians, when we realize thatsomething is not good enough
for our children, if themedicine is not good enough for
our kids, why is it good enoughfor my patients?
It's kind of the question thatwe've started asking.
And um it just highlights uhthe responsibility that we feel
(11:30):
for our patients.
And I think it highlights,thank God, it highlights the
fact that we still feel sorelationally drawn to our
patients as well.
Um, so I just thank you so muchfor for being so brave and so
bold as to make that step aftergetting that nudge, nudge,
nudge, and then the bigthunderbolts um of
(11:51):
understanding.
It's it's incredible.
Um, describe for me how lifelooks different for you from
when you were a practicingDurham PA for so long to now,
number one, being a businessowner, of course, carries its
own, its own challenges.
But outside of that, justclinically, what do those two,
how did the lives look a littlebit different?
Kerry Jenkins (12:10):
That's a great question.
So in dermatology, um, I wasvery privileged that I worked
with the same practice for 25years.
And, you know, I practicedmedical dermatology and
aesthetic cosmetic dermatology.
So when I would go into clinicand do medical dermatology, I
would see upwards of 50, 55patients a day.
(12:32):
I'd see two patients every 15minutes and take a 45 minute
break for lunch.
And we were expected to, Imean, that was just that was the
pace, and that's what we did.
And it's all fine and dandyuntil it's not, and you get
toasty and burnt out and umaesthetic medicine was a little
bit different, and I love andenjoy that.
(12:53):
It's a completely differentflavor.
Uh, but that too began tobristle me in some aspects.
You know, I would have peopleto come in and just be like so
upset that they have a wrinkleon their face.
And I'm like, seriously, youhave a wrinkle.
Like, there are what?
Anyway, yes, I agree.
So um, you know, that's what mylife looked like uh practicing
(13:16):
conventionally.
And now in my own private uhfunctional medicine practice, I
see between three and fivepatients a day, excuse me, with
maybe one to two consultationsadded on at the end of the day.
Uh a couple of days a week, Ido consultations.
So the patient load hasdrastically reduced.
(13:38):
Um, however, the mentalgymnastics that is going on to
provide care for the personsitting in front of me has
quadrupled easily.
Um, it is a lot to take intoaccount an entire person's, you
(13:59):
know, integrative and functionalmedicine is a systems biology
approach.
So as a dermatologist, I'mtrained to evaluate the skin.
The skin is not aself-individualized organ, it is
tied into the immune system, tothe gastrointestinal system, to
the endocrine system, to theneurological system, the
(14:22):
hypothalamus, pituitary,adrenal, gonatal, thyroid
access.
Like it is all intertwined.
So I had to, because I came outof school and jumped into
dermatology straight out of thegate, and I did not have family
practice or internal medicinebehind me and under my belt, I
(14:42):
had to do a lot of learning toget up to speed because rashes
are a direct, you know, rasheson the skin are a direct result
of the inflammation that'sharbored on the inside of the
body, in the gut, and theliver's inability or
inefficiency to clear toxins andand immobilize and get and
(15:05):
metabolize and get things out.
So when I tell my patients, I'man amateur immunologist,
pulmonologist,gastroenterologist,
psychologist, you name it, I'mit.
And, you know, one thing that Ilearned very quickly out of the
gate is I knew that I wanted tospecialize in dermatology
because that's my wheelhouse,right?
But it took me years to becomeproficient in primary care.
(15:30):
I know how to treat thyroidconditions.
I know how, right?
Like you have to learn how todo all that to be able to treat
skin or whatever your niche is,to be able to do that well, you
have to know how to treat thewhole person.
So there was a huge learningcurve.
But I'm so grateful I went downthat path and chose, chose this
(15:53):
option for sure.
Ashley Love (15:54):
I mean, it really shines a very bright light on
what you told that one youngpatient in your in your clinic
was I don't have the answer foryou, but we'll figure it out
together.
You understand the weight ofthat phrase now.
We'll figure it out together.
It's not just we'll figure itout together in the one or two
(16:16):
hours that I have you in myoffice right now.
It's you're going home, you'rethinking about your patient,
you're researching, you'rereading, you're asking
colleagues, you're you're doingthe legwork.
unknown (16:28):
Yeah.
Kerry Jenkins (16:29):
And how that's part, that's the majority of it.
Like the emotional mentaleducational piece of it, it's
just huge.
What I've learned is no portionof that was taught in PA
school.
And it is absolutely criminal.
(16:49):
And I'm gonna change that next,you know.
I'm I'm on a mission.
I I'm I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna,you know, rifle up the the
medical community.
Like it, it's coming, change ishappening, awareness is
building, people are asking morebetter questions.
So the revolution is happening.
Um, and it just excites me somuch to be able to be a part of
(17:10):
it.
But yes, it's it's the it's theunbillable hours that I spend
with each person's case learningand figuring out how to put
their puzzle pieces togetherbecause every single person is
an N of one.
Yeah.
Ashley Love (17:28):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
You know, this this brings meto an interesting question.
And it's something that isliterally, literally written in
caps on your website.
And that is this is not for theperson looking for the quick
fix.
And I kind of it ties in alittle bit about when you were
talking about how people areasking more questions and they
are doing their own research andthey are looking for changes in
(17:50):
healthcare.
You know, it's juxtaposedbetween also us living in a very
quick fix society right now.
So maybe we could talk abouthow the culture has shifted over
the last years when it comes topatients, patient expectations.
Um, tell me a little bit aboutthat.
Kerry Jenkins (18:08):
It's so very important to set those
expectations expectations upstraight out of the gate.
And I'm very transparent withall my people.
The one thing that they willlearn about me right away is I'm
gonna be honest and tell youstraight like it is.
There's no sugarcoating,there's no beating around the
bush.
If I don't know, I tell you Idon't know.
Um but setting thatexpectation, and I say this to
(18:29):
every single person that has aconsultation with me on the
phone to find out, you know, ifI am the right person for them
to work with, I very clearly saythis is not a quick fix.
It is not like shutting off alight and you push the button
and the and all of a sudden thelight goes off and it's dark.
We are rebuilding your bodyfrom a cellular origin.
(18:52):
And that takes time.
So I tell people if this issomething that you really
believe in and you really wantto do this, you have got to put
on your patient hat.
And I mean patience, likepatient, have patience.
This is not an instant fix,this is not immediate, you know,
symptom resolution.
(19:13):
It takes time for your body torecalibrate and be able to
function optimally.
So I tell people, you know, ifI'm dealing with an infant that
has eczema or atopic dermatitis,it's gonna take four to six
weeks for your body to take inthe nutrients that it needs, to
put it into the cell, for thecell to have to be able to do
what it needs to do with it.
(19:34):
Then the skin will start tosay, oh, okay, the immune system
is happy, you know, the GItract is happy.
So now the skin can start tocalm down, right?
So I tell people, one of thefirst questions they ask is,
Kerry, how long is it going totake for me to clear my kids'
eczema?
It could take anywhere from sixweeks to six months, depending
on what we find.
I don't know.
But I'm gonna tell youeverything as we go along the
(19:57):
way to let you know where westand.
You will never not know wherewe stand, but setting realistic
expectation is important fromthe get-go.
Ashley Love (20:04):
Absolutely.
And I'm really glad you startedtalking about some of those
common diseases.
Um, because this is this is sointeresting to me to to think
about, especially coming from mygerm, my germ background as
well.
These these things that thatwe're treating that you're
treating in your clinic as well,they're very, very common.
We're talking acne, we'retalking PCOS, we're talking
(20:27):
atopic derm.
These are common diseases.
And the therapies that I amgiving them as a previous GYN PA
and now current DEM PA, they'revery frustrating therapies for
some people because it's med,med, med, med, med.
And then they're still notbetter sometimes at the end.
Kerry Jenkins (20:45):
Band-aid, band-aid, band-aid, band-aid.
Yes.
Right?
And I'm not saying that there'sanything wrong with meds.
I'm not anti-medication.
I am, however, anti-band-aid.
If there is a chroniccondition, PCOS, acne, rosacea,
psoriasis, atopic dermatitis,you name it, a chronic
condition.
Slapping a band-aid on it isnot the answer.
(21:08):
Identifying the underlyingcause of what's driving the
acne, what's driving thepsoriasis?
Why does the baby have eczemaat three months old?
Why?
Answering those questions,giving the body what it needs,
taking away what it doesn't wantor need or like, that's when
(21:30):
magic is able to happen.
Ashley Love (21:32):
So let's talk to the student who's listening who
says who's literally standing upclapping right now and
screaming at the top of theirlungs, yes, this is what I want
to do.
This is this is the medicinethat I want to practice.
You started as a PA.
You are, do you still have yourPA license?
I do.
Yeah.
So you started as a PA, you arestill a PA.
You went to PA school, youworked as a PA for so many
(21:53):
years, and then uh became anintegrative and functional
medicine practitioner.
I've talked to numerous MDs whohave kind of pursued a similar
Route to this student who'sthinking, well, that this second
part is what I want to do.
What would you, how would youcounsel them on, you know, if
they even need to pursueconventional medicine and um
conventional medical educationfirst?
(22:15):
Or can they just dive rightinto integrative and functional
medical education?
What do you what do you thinkthere?
Kerry Jenkins (22:21):
So my personal humble opinion is practice
primary care, practice generalinternal medicine, practice
pediatrics if kids are your jam.
Do what speaks to you, youknow, what lights you up, but
get a couple of years ofconventional medicine under your
belt.
That will serve you so muchbenefit for your future.
(22:45):
You can learn and take coursesand dabble and learn about
nutrition and all integrativeand functional things while
you're practicing conventionalmedicine.
But you need to have that solidfoundation so that you
understand when not to dointegrative and functional
(23:05):
medicine.
When is it a diagnosis where wereally need to rule out cancer?
We need to be seeing theoncologist to make sure that all
our Ts are crossed and our I'sare dotted before we do the
woo-woo stuff, right?
And I don't say that lightly.
So integrative and functionalmedicine is founded in the four
pillars of health (23:22):
movement, exercise, diet, nutrition, good,
healthy sleep, managing stress,those are the foundations of
health.
But we need to know when that'snot what needs to be done and
when to send to a conventionalmedical practitioner to rule out
the nasty, ugly diagnoses.
And if you don't have thatfoundational medical education
(23:46):
as a platform from which togrow, God forbid you miss
something, right?
So getting that basic, youknow, that general medicine
experience is so worthwhile.
You know, do internal medicine,do primary care, do general
pediatrics for a couple of yearsand then go branch out.
(24:08):
And there are people herewilling, waiting to support you
on your journey.
Ashley Love (24:13):
It's incredible.
And you can do that.
You can do that as a nurse, youcan do that as a PA, you can do
that as a nurse practitioner,you can do that as an MD or a
DO.
Like you said, find what speaksto you.
And this is just, it makes megiggle every time I have these
conversations because I'llinevitably I hear in the back of
my mind right now the student,the sophomore in college saying,
But Ashley, I already feel sofar behind.
(24:34):
I already feel so far.
You are not, you are juststarting this journey.
And it is not gonna end sixyears after you graduate high
school.
Kerry Jenkins (24:43):
It will never end.
I am 50 years old and I'm on mythird career.
It's okay to have multipleiterations of yourself.
It's called growth.
And if you're not growing,you're dead.
So grow and prosper.
Ashley Love (24:59):
You're absolutely right.
Okay, let's talk to ourclinicians.
Let's talk to our cliniciansfor a second because you know,
we just spoke with our students,but um, actually, let me let me
tell you a story.
So yesterday, it was yesterdayin clinic, I saw a patient that
I had been seeing for a verylong time.
She's um what they assumed wasum vascular issues in her legs,
which were basically destroyingher skin, right?
(25:21):
Her legs kept swelling and theywere um they they looked raw
and uh just so painful.
She couldn't walk anymore.
Now she has a motorizedscooter.
And um, and they just kepttelling her that she had poor
hygiene and was um not takingcare of herself and was
overweight.
Okay, um, well, that's apossibility.
So I saw her a number of monthsago and I evaluated her and I
(25:42):
said, I don't think this is whatyou have.
I actually think you havepsoriasis.
Um so have you ever heard ofthat?
And she had heard of it, shehad looked it up herself and she
she agreed.
So um during the course of ourdiscussion, I said, Well, would
you be open to a biopsy?
Let's confirm my suspicions.
We biopsied it.
Turns out it was psoriasis.
So she has been, um, we've beentreating her with a really
(26:05):
heavy-duty medicine forpsoriasis, and she is improving.
She's just not completelybetter.
And she came to me yesterdayand she said, Ashley, don't be
mad at me.
And I I just I love hearingthat in my clinic because it
means your patient is about toopen up to you about something
that really matters to them.
(26:26):
Right.
So of course I'm not gonna bemad.
I I get so excited.
And she said, Don't be mad atme.
Um, I I looked online, Google,AI, Chat GPT, etc.
I looked online and itrecommended that I start using
this certain type of water on mylegs.
I think she said thermal water.
Regardless, what she wasdescribing was basically a way
(26:49):
that she had started to changethe way that she was caring for
her body.
The water was one thing.
She changed her diet up wassecond.
She actually started getting upand moving more, even though
her legs hurt.
We just she was basicallydescribing what I would have
told her as an integrative andfunctional medicine
practitioner, right?
I I was excited about thisbecause I have talked to so many
(27:10):
people who work in this fieldof medicine, and I'm so grateful
for it.
And I am not an integrative andfunctional medicine
practitioner.
So when my patients start doingthis on their own, I'm
thrilled.
They're doing it by themselves.
What would you tell theclinician who then sits there
and eye rolls at their patientsand calls it, as Wikipedia does,
voodoo or witchcraft?
(27:31):
At what point do we need tostart considering this is a
reasonable approach for some ofthese patients?
Kerry Jenkins (27:38):
I love that you ask that question because here's
my answer.
And I say this with the utmosthumility You don't know what you
don't know until you do know.
And I'm gonna tell every singlehuman listening to this
(27:59):
podcast, and I hope it goesviral, and millions of people
hear this.
There is so much that we don'tknow.
And conventional medicine isamazing at acute crisis triage
medicine, but they are failingmiserably at chronic disease.
(28:19):
And that's what's bringing downour healthcare system.
And we as medical providers arenot trained in nutrition, and
we're not trained in so manyother, you know, topics that are
so important, you know, the waythat a naturopath would be
educated, the way that a Chinesemedical doctor would be
(28:40):
educated.
There's so much that we don'tknow when we have our
conventional lens medicalgoggles on, and we're our way is
the only way in the best way,that is ignorance.
Take those goggles off.
Realize there's so much moreout there.
There's so many more healingmodalities that are out there
(29:03):
that have thousands of years ofpractice behind them, Ayurveda,
Chinese medicine, herbalmedicine.
I mean, don't be that person.
Don't be that clinician,please.
Ashley Love (29:16):
But the evidence is there.
And and I love what you saidabout how we are failing at
chronic disease.
And I do think chronic disease,psoriasis, acne, eczema, we've
mentioned a bunch of them,hydridenitosupertiva, vitiligo,
lupus.
We've talked about chronicdisease this whole episode,
right?
And and those are the thingsthat get so frustrating as
clinicians.
We are we are healers.
We'd like to believe that weare healers at heart, but yet
(29:38):
these chronic diseases, we arejust we are not beating them a
lot of the time.
And that is the mostfrustrating um thing.
Let's actually shift gears andand but on the same page, talk
about PCOS.
PCOS is polycystic ovariansyndrome, and it affects people
with ovaries.
And it does not just affecttheir ovaries.
(30:01):
Um, this is uh something thatyou've created a fantastic
platform um for calledwhisperingwisdom.com.
Tell us a little bit about thisjourney.
What this is just a greatexample of one of the chronic
diseases that we've talked abouttoday.
Kerry Jenkins (30:16):
Yeah.
So PCOS is crazyunderdiagnosed.
Crazy underdiagnosed.
It is the number one cause ofinfertility in this great nation
that we live in, and it isunderdiagnosed.
Our young women are notovulating regularly, and that is
leading to chronic infertility.
So the reason the way that Igot into the PCOS space is as a
(30:39):
dermatology practitioner, I washaving these young adult females
coming into the practice thathave had acne.
And they didn't just have oneor two or five inflammatory
papilles.
They had cystic nodular acnealong their jawline, across
their neck.
Uh, they were growing amustache and a beard, and they
(31:00):
had hair on their chest.
So I was treating their acne inthe medical clinic.
I was lasering their the hairon their face in the cosmetic
clinic.
And these women, theirself-esteem was absolutely
tanked.
They had, you know, they weredepressed, they were not going
out with their friends, theywere not engaging in society,
(31:20):
they were not being social, theywere shutting themselves up in
their room, they were notpursuing education.
And I started havingconversations with these young
women.
And I would say, Whoever yousee in the GYN space, your nurse
practitioner, your PA, whoever,have they done any labs?
Have you had an ultrasound ofyour ovaries?
Is there any way you do youhave a family history of PCOS?
Have you ever heard of it?
(31:41):
Do you know what it is?
And they would look at me likea deer in the head, like, what
are you talking about?
Okay.
So, like you mentioned, PCOS isanother chronic condition.
And your ovaries are respondingto the metabolic dysfunction
that is happening in your body.
And what is driving thatmetabolic dysfunction?
Our poor nutrition.
(32:02):
People are eating the sad diet.
The standard American diet issad and it doesn't provide
nutrients.
We are in in, you know, ourlivers are becoming fatty.
We are insulin resistant.
We are building cardiovasculardisease in 17, 18, 19-year-old
girls.
And that is the root cause ofPCOS.
(32:22):
So I would ask them, what isthe, what is your, you know,
gynecologist or the practitioneryou're seeing doing for you?
Ashley Love (32:28):
You mentioned so many band-aids, and you're
right.
I mean, that really ultimately,many times, that is what it is.
And and you do kind of looklike that you're clairvoyant
when you tell people to go inand get an ultrasound of their
ovaries.
There's probably something onthem.
And they go in and they getultrasounds of their ovaries,
and lo and behold, there issomething on them, right?
Um, whisperingwisdom.com, guys,this is where you need to head
(32:53):
to check out this incredibleplatform that she has created.
Go to her website, check itout.
Um, and then if you guys havefallen in love with Kerry as
much as I have, please pleasevisit her website, whisper.com.
Um, absolutely incredibleresources there that she has
created that uh that are reallymeant for everybody, student,
(33:16):
patient, clinician alike.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
You are amazing and you aremotivated.
And I am just so grateful thatyou have stepped into this space
where we desperately need fast,loud talkers to, like you said,
begin to spur change and ignitea revolution and how we are
finally not just caring forpatients, but healing patients.
Kerry Jenkins (33:39):
Amen.
I love that.
So for everything you do andfor providing the platform for
us to get the word out.
We're so, there's so muchgratitude for what you do,
Ashley.
Ashley Love (33:48):
We appreciate it.
Thank you so very much forlistening to this episode of
Shadow Me Next.
If you liked this episode or ifyou think it could be useful
for a friend, please subscribeand invite them to join us next
Monday.
As always, if you have anyquestions, let me know on
Facebook or Instagram.
Access you want, stories youneed, you're always invited to
Shadow Me Next.
(34:09):
Please keep in mind that thecontent of this podcast is
intended for informational andentertainment purposes only, and
should not be considered asprofessional medical advice.
The views and opinionsexpressed in this podcast are
those of the host and guests,and do not necessarily reflect
the official policy or positionof any other agency,
(34:30):
organization, employer, orcompany.
What if the medicine you've been chasing
isn't actually designed to solvethe problem you care about
most?
If you're a pre-med, pre-PA, orearly clinician, you have been
told that the path is simple.
Learn the guidelines, prescribethe treatment, and then move on
to the next patient.
But what happens when thetreatment works and the patient
(00:21):
still isn't better?
Today's guest, Kerry Jenkins,is a PA who spent 25 years in
dermatology before a singlepatient forced her to confront
something that most cliniciansquietly feel but rarely say out
loud.
If you have ever felt likemedicine is moving too fast to
actually heal people, thisconversation might challenge
(00:43):
everything you thought you knewabout success in healthcare.
In this episode, we unpack thequestion that no one is teaching
you how to ask.
Welcome to Shadow Me Next, apodcast where I take you into
and behind the scenes of themedical world to provide you
with a deeper understanding ofthe human side of medicine.
I'm Ashley, a physicianassistant, medical editor,
(01:06):
clinical preceptor, and thecreator of Shadow Me Next.
I invite you to join me as wetake a conversational and
personal look into the lives andminds of leaders in medicine.
This is Shadow Me Next withKerry Jenkins.
Kerry of Whisper Health.
The student who's listening,you are in for such a treat
today.
Kerry is absolutely amazing andreally truly motivated to make
(01:29):
significant lasting impacts inhealthcare across the board, but
also has a specialty that'svery near and dear and close to
my heart.
So thrilled to bring you Kerrytoday.
Thanks for joining us.
Kerry Jenkins (01:40):
Thank you so much for having me, Ashley.
It's my absolute privilege tobe here and to share this
information today.
Amazing.
Ashley Love (01:47):
So Kerry, you are a PA and you are also a um, well,
just describe your titles forus because they are very, very
interesting and something that alot of us have been looking for
recently.
Kerry Jenkins (01:58):
Awesome.
Yeah.
So I'm a PA and I came out ofschool and jumped into the
specialty of dermatology.
So I practiced dermatology for25 years.
Um and, you know, my story isthat I love my job and I, you
(02:21):
know, you kind of get caught upin doing the day-to-day things.
And I had one instance thatreally just opened my eyes, and
that led me to an entirelydifferent side of medicine.
So I am an integrative andfunctional medicine
practitioner, and in March, Iwill be celebrating eight years
of owning my own practice, whichis a huge, amazing celebration.
(02:45):
Um, and I have a generalfunctional medicine practice
where we treat all chronicillnesses, and I have a
specialty in dermatology, and Ialso have a special focus in
PCOS.
Incredible.
Ashley Love (02:59):
Oh my gosh.
First of all, Durham for 25years, eight years of owning
your own practice.
That's a lot of medicine thatyou have seen and um and a lot
of patients that you have reallytruly impacted.
And I would love to dive in tohow those two uh practices
really look different.
Um, but before we do that, youmentioned one instance in
(03:23):
practice where you know, kind ofthe you saw the light and
things, things started to shiftfor you.
I think this is a reallyinteresting story to talk to a
lot of clinicians about becauseI think for some clinicians,
it's a it's a it's a slow boil,right?
They start to feel things, theystart to feel dates, but for
others, it's a very interestingkind of one-time boom where they
realize, hold on, you know,kind of tires on the tires on
(03:46):
the road.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that moment?
Kerry Jenkins (03:50):
I can, and I'll keep it the abbreviated version.
I'm I'm very blessed to havetwo amazing uh young ladies that
I that I call my daughters.
And when my youngest was 12years old, she started having
some belly complaints, and Ireally didn't know what was
going on with her.
Um, and I kind of ignored herbecause I really didn't know
what to do.
And I knew that if I took herto the pediatrician, they'd do
(04:10):
an amazing workup.
The workup wasn't the problem.
I just knew deep down in mysoul that that workup was not
gonna uncover what was going onfor her.
So I started doing what everypatient does, and I started
going down rabbit holes.
I got on Google.
I got, you know, I waslistening to podcasts and
watching, you know, webinars,and I was reading books, and I
just was in the community andGoogling and researching, and
(04:33):
this whole concept ofintegrative and functional
medicine kept popping up.
And and when you Googlefunctional medicine, and
Wikipedia has a really nasty umpage on what functional medicine
is.
They they pretty much call itvoodoo and witchcraft.
I read that and it was verybristling to me.
I was like, ooh, I don't wantto be associated with that.
(04:55):
I practice medicine.
I was trained conventionally, Iam a practicing provider.
So I really um I hesitatedembracing that title and that
that language.
And I will be very, you know,transparent that that my body
whispered to me for a very longperiod of time.
Like it kept nudging me to justinvestigate further, be open,
(05:20):
have an open mind.
And just like in medicine, ifyour body, if you, if your body
starts whispering to you and youignore it, it starts speaking
to you.
And if you listen, if youignore the speaking terms, then
it starts yelling.
And if you ignore that, thenyou're really in a whole hell
bit of trouble.
So I was getting nudged to, youknow, just keep an open mind.
And I kept, I kept researchingand learning.
(05:42):
And I had one profoundexperience.
It was um a day in clinic, andit was my last patient of the
day, and my medical assistantuh, you know, presented this
patient to me.
It was a 16-year-oldAfrican-American female who had
just been diagnosed with lupus,and we were her very next stop.
So I went in and sat down infront of this 16-year-old, and I
(06:03):
put my, I sit on a little rolystool and I put my hands on her
and I introduced myself and Isaid, Tell me what's going on.
What, you know, why are youhere?
And she was with her aunt andher grandmother.
Her mother was not able toattend the visit, and she said,
Um, my aunt and my grandmotherhave lupus, and I was just
diagnosed with lupus, and Ireally need you to explain to me
(06:25):
how my diet affects my disease.
Ashley Love (06:28):
This is a great time to pause for quality
questions, a segment on the showwhere we talk about an
interview question that youmight hear on your own
pre-health interview.
The interview question here isthis Tell us about a time when
you witnessed or experienceduncertainty in a clinical
setting.
How did the clinician respond?
How did the patient respond?
(06:48):
And what did that moment teachyou about the kind of health
care professional you hope tobecome?
So, one of the biggestmisconceptions that pre-health
students have is that greatclinicians always know the
answer.
They do not.
Some of the best clinicians Ihave ever worked with have been
the first to say, I don't knowyet, but I am going to find out.
(07:11):
Medicine is not about knowingeverything, it's about being
honest, curious, and committedto figuring out things for the
patient sitting in front of you.
And it doesn't just stop atquality questions.
There are more resources foryou as a prehealth student on
ShadowMenext.com to include ournewly released application
(07:33):
readiness course.
So head on over tocourses.shadowmext.com and check
it out.
Kerry Jenkins (07:39):
And Ashley, it was like thunderstruck in that
visit room.
I almost fell off my rolystool.
I turned around and looked atmy my medical assistant because
she knew what I had been goingthrough.
And I looked at her and I had amoment where I had to compose
myself because I was so reallyjust shaken up.
(08:02):
And I put my hands up and Isaid, Okay, I have received,
I've I hear you, I have receivedthe message loud and clear.
And I was very transparent withthat 16-year-old and I said to
her, Listen, I don't have theanswer for you, but we will
figure it out together.
That was the beginning of myjourney.
(08:22):
And I I drove 30 minutes homefrom clinic that day.
I rolled the windows down, Ihad the radio off, and I just
sat with myself.
And it was kind of like theangel and the devil on my
shoulder.
You can do this, Kerry.
It's it's what you're callingis.
You're passionate about it,you're getting signals from the
universe.
And then the devil is sittingon the opposite shoulder, and it
(08:43):
was the, you know, absolutepanic and um the voice, like,
who do you think you are?
You can't open your ownpractice, you can't manage a
practice, you've never been tobusiness school, you don't know
how to do that.
Who do you think you are tryingto step outside your comfort
zone and doing something likethat?
And I will say, I struggledwith that for a very long time
(09:04):
until the angel finally went outand shut the devil up.
And I jumped off a cliff and Isaid, I'm either going to die
trying and I'm gonna fail, butat least I will know that I
tried rather than not evertrying.
And almost eight years later,here we are.
Ashley Love (09:20):
I have goosebumps.
I had major goosebumps when youdescribed the question that
that patient asked you.
Um, I mean, how much, how muchlouder and clearer could that
calling have been?
And you know, there's there'ssomething really important here
that I want to make sure that wehit on.
And that is sometimes we speakflippantly about shifting
(09:41):
careers, and especially as PAs.
Because what does every pre-PAstudent say?
The reason is for them goinginto our profession, because I
like the lateral mobility.
I like the ability to move fromone specialty to the next,
happy, flowy, no problems, it'seasy, etc.
And what I want to impress oneverybody, including myself who
(10:02):
has ever had that thought isthese are not easy changes.
System systematically, yes,it's a little bit easier to make
a shift.
These are major, majordecisions that we make.
Um, number one, to shift fromspecialties, especially as a PA.
Number two, to take on a wholenew venture like you did, moving
(10:25):
not only from a different intoa totally different specialty,
but also becoming a businessowner and likely changing the
way that you practice entirely,um, which I do want to talk a
little bit about.
You know, we'll describe daysin your life, uh, one versus the
other.
Um, but again, before we moveon too far, I do want to I do
want to mention that um it wasyour child that kind of started
(10:46):
this journey into functionalmedicine.
And I I think it's sointeresting because as parents,
I'm a parent, you're a parent,I've spoken to a number of
clinicians who are also parentsand integrative and functional
medicine practitioners.
And a lot of times it is theirchildren who have some type of
um illness or disease that theyare frustrated because they're
(11:07):
not getting the answers.
As clinicians, they're stillnot getting the answers that
they want.
And I just I think it's soimportant to realize that as
clinicians, when we realize thatsomething is not good enough
for our children, if themedicine is not good enough for
our kids, why is it good enoughfor my patients?
It's kind of the question thatwe've started asking.
And um it just highlights uhthe responsibility that we feel
(11:30):
for our patients.
And I think it highlights,thank God, it highlights the
fact that we still feel sorelationally drawn to our
patients as well.
Um, so I just thank you so muchfor for being so brave and so
bold as to make that step aftergetting that nudge, nudge,
nudge, and then the bigthunderbolts um of
(11:51):
understanding.
It's it's incredible.
Um, describe for me how lifelooks different for you from
when you were a practicingDurham PA for so long to now,
number one, being a businessowner, of course, carries its
own, its own challenges.
But outside of that, justclinically, what do those two,
how did the lives look a littlebit different?
Kerry Jenkins (12:10):
That's a great question.
So in dermatology, um, I wasvery privileged that I worked
with the same practice for 25years.
And, you know, I practicedmedical dermatology and
aesthetic cosmetic dermatology.
So when I would go into clinicand do medical dermatology, I
would see upwards of 50, 55patients a day.
(12:32):
I'd see two patients every 15minutes and take a 45 minute
break for lunch.
And we were expected to, Imean, that was just that was the
pace, and that's what we did.
And it's all fine and dandyuntil it's not, and you get
toasty and burnt out and umaesthetic medicine was a little
bit different, and I love andenjoy that.
(12:53):
It's a completely differentflavor.
Uh, but that too began tobristle me in some aspects.
You know, I would have peopleto come in and just be like so
upset that they have a wrinkleon their face.
And I'm like, seriously, youhave a wrinkle.
Like, there are what?
Anyway, yes, I agree.
So um, you know, that's what mylife looked like uh practicing
(13:16):
conventionally.
And now in my own private uhfunctional medicine practice, I
see between three and fivepatients a day, excuse me, with
maybe one to two consultationsadded on at the end of the day.
Uh a couple of days a week, Ido consultations.
So the patient load hasdrastically reduced.
(13:38):
Um, however, the mentalgymnastics that is going on to
provide care for the personsitting in front of me has
quadrupled easily.
Um, it is a lot to take intoaccount an entire person's, you
(13:59):
know, integrative and functionalmedicine is a systems biology
approach.
So as a dermatologist, I'mtrained to evaluate the skin.
The skin is not aself-individualized organ, it is
tied into the immune system, tothe gastrointestinal system, to
the endocrine system, to theneurological system, the
(14:22):
hypothalamus, pituitary,adrenal, gonatal, thyroid
access.
Like it is all intertwined.
So I had to, because I came outof school and jumped into
dermatology straight out of thegate, and I did not have family
practice or internal medicinebehind me and under my belt, I
(14:42):
had to do a lot of learning toget up to speed because rashes
are a direct, you know, rasheson the skin are a direct result
of the inflammation that'sharbored on the inside of the
body, in the gut, and theliver's inability or
inefficiency to clear toxins andand immobilize and get and
(15:05):
metabolize and get things out.
So when I tell my patients, I'man amateur immunologist,
pulmonologist,gastroenterologist,
psychologist, you name it, I'mit.
And, you know, one thing that Ilearned very quickly out of the
gate is I knew that I wanted tospecialize in dermatology
because that's my wheelhouse,right?
But it took me years to becomeproficient in primary care.
(15:30):
I know how to treat thyroidconditions.
I know how, right?
Like you have to learn how todo all that to be able to treat
skin or whatever your niche is,to be able to do that well, you
have to know how to treat thewhole person.
So there was a huge learningcurve.
But I'm so grateful I went downthat path and chose, chose this
(15:53):
option for sure.
Ashley Love (15:54):
I mean, it really shines a very bright light on
what you told that one youngpatient in your in your clinic
was I don't have the answer foryou, but we'll figure it out
together.
You understand the weight ofthat phrase now.
We'll figure it out together.
It's not just we'll figure itout together in the one or two
(16:16):
hours that I have you in myoffice right now.
It's you're going home, you'rethinking about your patient,
you're researching, you'rereading, you're asking
colleagues, you're you're doingthe legwork.
unknown (16:28):
Yeah.
Kerry Jenkins (16:29):
And how that's part, that's the majority of it.
Like the emotional mentaleducational piece of it, it's
just huge.
What I've learned is no portionof that was taught in PA
school.
And it is absolutely criminal.
(16:49):
And I'm gonna change that next,you know.
I'm I'm on a mission.
I I'm I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna,you know, rifle up the the
medical community.
Like it, it's coming, change ishappening, awareness is
building, people are asking morebetter questions.
So the revolution is happening.
Um, and it just excites me somuch to be able to be a part of
(17:10):
it.
But yes, it's it's the it's theunbillable hours that I spend
with each person's case learningand figuring out how to put
their puzzle pieces togetherbecause every single person is
an N of one.
Yeah.
Ashley Love (17:28):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
You know, this this brings meto an interesting question.
And it's something that isliterally, literally written in
caps on your website.
And that is this is not for theperson looking for the quick
fix.
And I kind of it ties in alittle bit about when you were
talking about how people areasking more questions and they
are doing their own research andthey are looking for changes in
(17:50):
healthcare.
You know, it's juxtaposedbetween also us living in a very
quick fix society right now.
So maybe we could talk abouthow the culture has shifted over
the last years when it comes topatients, patient expectations.
Um, tell me a little bit aboutthat.
Kerry Jenkins (18:08):
It's so very important to set those
expectations expectations upstraight out of the gate.
And I'm very transparent withall my people.
The one thing that they willlearn about me right away is I'm
gonna be honest and tell youstraight like it is.
There's no sugarcoating,there's no beating around the
bush.
If I don't know, I tell you Idon't know.
Um but setting thatexpectation, and I say this to
(18:29):
every single person that has aconsultation with me on the
phone to find out, you know, ifI am the right person for them
to work with, I very clearly saythis is not a quick fix.
It is not like shutting off alight and you push the button
and the and all of a sudden thelight goes off and it's dark.
We are rebuilding your bodyfrom a cellular origin.
(18:52):
And that takes time.
So I tell people if this issomething that you really
believe in and you really wantto do this, you have got to put
on your patient hat.
And I mean patience, likepatient, have patience.
This is not an instant fix,this is not immediate, you know,
symptom resolution.
(19:13):
It takes time for your body torecalibrate and be able to
function optimally.
So I tell people, you know, ifI'm dealing with an infant that
has eczema or atopic dermatitis,it's gonna take four to six
weeks for your body to take inthe nutrients that it needs, to
put it into the cell, for thecell to have to be able to do
what it needs to do with it.
(19:34):
Then the skin will start tosay, oh, okay, the immune system
is happy, you know, the GItract is happy.
So now the skin can start tocalm down, right?
So I tell people, one of thefirst questions they ask is,
Kerry, how long is it going totake for me to clear my kids'
eczema?
It could take anywhere from sixweeks to six months, depending
on what we find.
I don't know.
But I'm gonna tell youeverything as we go along the
(19:57):
way to let you know where westand.
You will never not know wherewe stand, but setting realistic
expectation is important fromthe get-go.
Ashley Love (20:04):
Absolutely.
And I'm really glad you startedtalking about some of those
common diseases.
Um, because this is this is sointeresting to me to to think
about, especially coming from mygerm, my germ background as
well.
These these things that thatwe're treating that you're
treating in your clinic as well,they're very, very common.
We're talking acne, we'retalking PCOS, we're talking
(20:27):
atopic derm.
These are common diseases.
And the therapies that I amgiving them as a previous GYN PA
and now current DEM PA, they'revery frustrating therapies for
some people because it's med,med, med, med, med.
And then they're still notbetter sometimes at the end.
Kerry Jenkins (20:45):
Band-aid, band-aid, band-aid, band-aid.
Yes.
Right?
And I'm not saying that there'sanything wrong with meds.
I'm not anti-medication.
I am, however, anti-band-aid.
If there is a chroniccondition, PCOS, acne, rosacea,
psoriasis, atopic dermatitis,you name it, a chronic
condition.
Slapping a band-aid on it isnot the answer.
(21:08):
Identifying the underlyingcause of what's driving the
acne, what's driving thepsoriasis?
Why does the baby have eczemaat three months old?
Why?
Answering those questions,giving the body what it needs,
taking away what it doesn't wantor need or like, that's when
(21:30):
magic is able to happen.
Ashley Love (21:32):
So let's talk to the student who's listening who
says who's literally standing upclapping right now and
screaming at the top of theirlungs, yes, this is what I want
to do.
This is this is the medicinethat I want to practice.
You started as a PA.
You are, do you still have yourPA license?
I do.
Yeah.
So you started as a PA, you arestill a PA.
You went to PA school, youworked as a PA for so many
(21:53):
years, and then uh became anintegrative and functional
medicine practitioner.
I've talked to numerous MDs whohave kind of pursued a similar
Route to this student who'sthinking, well, that this second
part is what I want to do.
What would you, how would youcounsel them on, you know, if
they even need to pursueconventional medicine and um
conventional medical educationfirst?
(22:15):
Or can they just dive rightinto integrative and functional
medical education?
What do you what do you thinkthere?
Kerry Jenkins (22:21):
So my personal humble opinion is practice
primary care, practice generalinternal medicine, practice
pediatrics if kids are your jam.
Do what speaks to you, youknow, what lights you up, but
get a couple of years ofconventional medicine under your
belt.
That will serve you so muchbenefit for your future.
(22:45):
You can learn and take coursesand dabble and learn about
nutrition and all integrativeand functional things while
you're practicing conventionalmedicine.
But you need to have that solidfoundation so that you
understand when not to dointegrative and functional
(23:05):
medicine.
When is it a diagnosis where wereally need to rule out cancer?
We need to be seeing theoncologist to make sure that all
our Ts are crossed and our I'sare dotted before we do the
woo-woo stuff, right?
And I don't say that lightly.
So integrative and functionalmedicine is founded in the four
pillars of health (23:22):
movement, exercise, diet, nutrition, good,
healthy sleep, managing stress,those are the foundations of
health.
But we need to know when that'snot what needs to be done and
when to send to a conventionalmedical practitioner to rule out
the nasty, ugly diagnoses.
And if you don't have thatfoundational medical education
(23:46):
as a platform from which togrow, God forbid you miss
something, right?
So getting that basic, youknow, that general medicine
experience is so worthwhile.
You know, do internal medicine,do primary care, do general
pediatrics for a couple of yearsand then go branch out.
(24:08):
And there are people herewilling, waiting to support you
on your journey.
Ashley Love (24:13):
It's incredible.
And you can do that.
You can do that as a nurse, youcan do that as a PA, you can do
that as a nurse practitioner,you can do that as an MD or a
DO.
Like you said, find what speaksto you.
And this is just, it makes megiggle every time I have these
conversations because I'llinevitably I hear in the back of
my mind right now the student,the sophomore in college saying,
But Ashley, I already feel sofar behind.
(24:34):
I already feel so far.
You are not, you are juststarting this journey.
And it is not gonna end sixyears after you graduate high
school.
Kerry Jenkins (24:43):
It will never end.
I am 50 years old and I'm on mythird career.
It's okay to have multipleiterations of yourself.
It's called growth.
And if you're not growing,you're dead.
So grow and prosper.
Ashley Love (24:59):
You're absolutely right.
Okay, let's talk to ourclinicians.
Let's talk to our cliniciansfor a second because you know,
we just spoke with our students,but um, actually, let me let me
tell you a story.
So yesterday, it was yesterdayin clinic, I saw a patient that
I had been seeing for a verylong time.
She's um what they assumed wasum vascular issues in her legs,
which were basically destroyingher skin, right?
(25:21):
Her legs kept swelling and theywere um they they looked raw
and uh just so painful.
She couldn't walk anymore.
Now she has a motorizedscooter.
And um, and they just kepttelling her that she had poor
hygiene and was um not takingcare of herself and was
overweight.
Okay, um, well, that's apossibility.
So I saw her a number of monthsago and I evaluated her and I
(25:42):
said, I don't think this is whatyou have.
I actually think you havepsoriasis.
Um so have you ever heard ofthat?
And she had heard of it, shehad looked it up herself and she
she agreed.
So um during the course of ourdiscussion, I said, Well, would
you be open to a biopsy?
Let's confirm my suspicions.
We biopsied it.
Turns out it was psoriasis.
So she has been, um, we've beentreating her with a really
(26:05):
heavy-duty medicine forpsoriasis, and she is improving.
She's just not completelybetter.
And she came to me yesterdayand she said, Ashley, don't be
mad at me.
And I I just I love hearingthat in my clinic because it
means your patient is about toopen up to you about something
that really matters to them.
(26:26):
Right.
So of course I'm not gonna bemad.
I I get so excited.
And she said, Don't be mad atme.
Um, I I looked online, Google,AI, Chat GPT, etc.
I looked online and itrecommended that I start using
this certain type of water on mylegs.
I think she said thermal water.
Regardless, what she wasdescribing was basically a way
(26:49):
that she had started to changethe way that she was caring for
her body.
The water was one thing.
She changed her diet up wassecond.
She actually started getting upand moving more, even though
her legs hurt.
We just she was basicallydescribing what I would have
told her as an integrative andfunctional medicine
practitioner, right?
I I was excited about thisbecause I have talked to so many
(27:10):
people who work in this fieldof medicine, and I'm so grateful
for it.
And I am not an integrative andfunctional medicine
practitioner.
So when my patients start doingthis on their own, I'm
thrilled.
They're doing it by themselves.
What would you tell theclinician who then sits there
and eye rolls at their patientsand calls it, as Wikipedia does,
voodoo or witchcraft?
(27:31):
At what point do we need tostart considering this is a
reasonable approach for some ofthese patients?
Kerry Jenkins (27:38):
I love that you ask that question because here's
my answer.
And I say this with the utmosthumility You don't know what you
don't know until you do know.
And I'm gonna tell every singlehuman listening to this
(27:59):
podcast, and I hope it goesviral, and millions of people
hear this.
There is so much that we don'tknow.
And conventional medicine isamazing at acute crisis triage
medicine, but they are failingmiserably at chronic disease.
(28:19):
And that's what's bringing downour healthcare system.
And we as medical providers arenot trained in nutrition, and
we're not trained in so manyother, you know, topics that are
so important, you know, the waythat a naturopath would be
educated, the way that a Chinesemedical doctor would be
(28:40):
educated.
There's so much that we don'tknow when we have our
conventional lens medicalgoggles on, and we're our way is
the only way in the best way,that is ignorance.
Take those goggles off.
Realize there's so much moreout there.
There's so many more healingmodalities that are out there
(29:03):
that have thousands of years ofpractice behind them, Ayurveda,
Chinese medicine, herbalmedicine.
I mean, don't be that person.
Don't be that clinician,please.
Ashley Love (29:16):
But the evidence is there.
And and I love what you saidabout how we are failing at
chronic disease.
And I do think chronic disease,psoriasis, acne, eczema, we've
mentioned a bunch of them,hydridenitosupertiva, vitiligo,
lupus.
We've talked about chronicdisease this whole episode,
right?
And and those are the thingsthat get so frustrating as
clinicians.
We are we are healers.
We'd like to believe that weare healers at heart, but yet
(29:38):
these chronic diseases, we arejust we are not beating them a
lot of the time.
And that is the mostfrustrating um thing.
Let's actually shift gears andand but on the same page, talk
about PCOS.
PCOS is polycystic ovariansyndrome, and it affects people
with ovaries.
And it does not just affecttheir ovaries.
(30:01):
Um, this is uh something thatyou've created a fantastic
platform um for calledwhisperingwisdom.com.
Tell us a little bit about thisjourney.
What this is just a greatexample of one of the chronic
diseases that we've talked abouttoday.
Kerry Jenkins (30:16):
Yeah.
So PCOS is crazyunderdiagnosed.
Crazy underdiagnosed.
It is the number one cause ofinfertility in this great nation
that we live in, and it isunderdiagnosed.
Our young women are notovulating regularly, and that is
leading to chronic infertility.
So the reason the way that Igot into the PCOS space is as a
(30:39):
dermatology practitioner, I washaving these young adult females
coming into the practice thathave had acne.
And they didn't just have oneor two or five inflammatory
papilles.
They had cystic nodular acnealong their jawline, across
their neck.
Uh, they were growing amustache and a beard, and they
(31:00):
had hair on their chest.
So I was treating their acne inthe medical clinic.
I was lasering their the hairon their face in the cosmetic
clinic.
And these women, theirself-esteem was absolutely
tanked.
They had, you know, they weredepressed, they were not going
out with their friends, theywere not engaging in society,
(31:20):
they were not being social, theywere shutting themselves up in
their room, they were notpursuing education.
And I started havingconversations with these young
women.
And I would say, Whoever yousee in the GYN space, your nurse
practitioner, your PA, whoever,have they done any labs?
Have you had an ultrasound ofyour ovaries?
Is there any way you do youhave a family history of PCOS?
Have you ever heard of it?
(31:41):
Do you know what it is?
And they would look at me likea deer in the head, like, what
are you talking about?
Okay.
So, like you mentioned, PCOS isanother chronic condition.
And your ovaries are respondingto the metabolic dysfunction
that is happening in your body.
And what is driving thatmetabolic dysfunction?
Our poor nutrition.
(32:02):
People are eating the sad diet.
The standard American diet issad and it doesn't provide
nutrients.
We are in in, you know, ourlivers are becoming fatty.
We are insulin resistant.
We are building cardiovasculardisease in 17, 18, 19-year-old
girls.
And that is the root cause ofPCOS.
(32:22):
So I would ask them, what isthe, what is your, you know,
gynecologist or the practitioneryou're seeing doing for you?
Ashley Love (32:28):
You mentioned so many band-aids, and you're
right.
I mean, that really ultimately,many times, that is what it is.
And and you do kind of looklike that you're clairvoyant
when you tell people to go inand get an ultrasound of their
ovaries.
There's probably something onthem.
And they go in and they getultrasounds of their ovaries,
and lo and behold, there issomething on them, right?
Um, whisperingwisdom.com, guys,this is where you need to head
(32:53):
to check out this incredibleplatform that she has created.
Go to her website, check itout.
Um, and then if you guys havefallen in love with Kerry as
much as I have, please pleasevisit her website, whisper.com.
Um, absolutely incredibleresources there that she has
created that uh that are reallymeant for everybody, student,
(33:16):
patient, clinician alike.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
You are amazing and you aremotivated.
And I am just so grateful thatyou have stepped into this space
where we desperately need fast,loud talkers to, like you said,
begin to spur change and ignitea revolution and how we are
finally not just caring forpatients, but healing patients.
Kerry Jenkins (33:39):
Amen.
I love that.
So for everything you do andfor providing the platform for
us to get the word out.
We're so, there's so muchgratitude for what you do,
Ashley.
Ashley Love (33:48):
We appreciate it.
Thank you so very much forlistening to this episode of
Shadow Me Next.
If you liked this episode or ifyou think it could be useful
for a friend, please subscribeand invite them to join us next
Monday.
As always, if you have anyquestions, let me know on
Facebook or Instagram.
Access you want, stories youneed, you're always invited to
Shadow Me Next.
(34:09):
Please keep in mind that thecontent of this podcast is
intended for informational andentertainment purposes only, and
should not be considered asprofessional medical advice.
The views and opinionsexpressed in this podcast are
those of the host and guests,and do not necessarily reflect
the official policy or positionof any other agency,
(34:30):
organization, employer, orcompany.
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