50. How to Heal from Childhood Trauma as a Vietnamese-American Daughter going into Motherhood ft. Tam Tran

Episode Transcript
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Tam Tran (00:00):
I realize that that trauma or that those problems
are not mine, but I'm trying tobe this hero.
Right.
this people pleaser to helpthem.
And I realize that, you know, Ineed to stay in my own lane.
and that I need to also createthe boundaries for myself to say
no.
And that for me, these last fewyears have been so hard to do.
And the hardest shift for me.

(00:21):
And I'll be very honest is howdo I carry that into motherhood?

Kristy (00:51):
Okie doke.
So welcome to another episode ofshit.
We don't tell mom today.
We have Tamran joining us.
She is a Vietnamese Americanborn, Vietnamese, American born
and raised in the bay area.
She loves being outdoors,playing sports, going on food
adventures, which I love withher two little dudes besides
raising little humans andworking in corporate marketing.

(01:14):
She is also a wellness coach,helping first gen Americans
overcome stress and anxiety.
Naturally.
Her biggest hope is that thetaboo nest of mental health and
stigma will be gone by the timeher kids start growing up.
So welcome to the show.
Tam.

Tam Tran (01:31):
Thank you Kristy.
So great to be here.
super excited, just, you know,this is a really topic that's
near and dear to my heart andjust excited to dive in with you
both.

Kristy (01:40):
I really wanted to chat with you about Tam is, I was
gonna say new parent, but Idon't know a young, how do, how

Tam Tran (01:46):
young mom,

Kristy (01:47):
young mom?

Tam Tran (01:48):
young mom.
Mm-hmm

Kristy (01:50):
we're like in that generation of, raising new
families, young families, andI've been curious because I am
someone who, who's working on myown mental health and then
trying to get my

Ep 50 - Kristy (02:03):
mom

Kristy (02:03):
involved in it.
And it sounds like you have donea little bit of work on that
too, with your parents, how doyou do that work with your
family, from the oldergeneration, but also start
instilling some of that wisdomto your kiddies as well, being
in that middle generation, so tospeak, like, what is

Tam Tran (02:20):
that like for

Kristy (02:20):
you.

Tam Tran (02:21):
yeah, my journey started probably about a little
over a decade.
it was definitely at that time,very much huge stigma about
speaking up about havingdepression and.
Any type of anxiety really.
And, you know, I was gonnatherapy for a number of reasons,
but, you know, I, I wanted tojust really work on myself cause
I felt that, you know, Igraduated from college, had a

(02:43):
really great paying job and Ijust didn't feel fulfilled or
happy.
And I think that part reallyjust kind of sparked me and
said, Hey, you know what,something's going on?
Something much deeper.
a lot of trauma that I justdon't think I really sort it
through.
So I decided to go to therapy.
So that's where I started.
And when I, when I was intherapy, a lot of the topics
that came out was from a lot ofthe unresolved trauma of

(03:04):
childhood that I just didn't,you know, have a safe space to
process.
And that for me was kind of thecatalyst to say, this really
needs to change.
Like I need to speak up about mystory.
so I thought I should tell my,my parents about this.
And so, I remember the day andtime when I had my dad, we were
getting lunch and I, you know,openly said to him, I said, this

(03:24):
is.
Really hard for me to share,but, I wanted to know like, I'm,
I'm gonna therapy right now.
And, you know, just started tolike cry and immediately, he was
just like, what do you mean?
Like, and he kind of took itlike the wrong way.
he kind of took it where he, hejust said like, well, what did I
do wrong?
Like it almost offended him.
Cuz he's like, you know, I, Idid all these things like, and

(03:47):
it became more about him than itwas about me.
And at that point in time, Ijust kind of started like
withdrawal and retract aboutwhat I wanted to share.
and I got scared, you know, Igot scared about, you know,
maybe this is a, a, a thing thatmaybe something's wrong with me.
You know, I, I took it as partof my identity.
Like I wore it like almost likea badge, like, oh, something's

(04:09):
wrong with me?
And I just shut down after that.
And it was like the stigma thatmy parents and my dad actually
just placed on.
Mental health that I actuallystopped going to therapy.

Kristy (04:21):
find it really interesting that, you know, your
dad's first reaction was kind ofself focused and,

Tam Tran (04:28):
Yeah.

Kristy (04:29):
self protecting.

Tam Tran (04:31):
Yeah.

Kristy (04:32):
what, what do you mean?
What did I do wrong?
Like, you know, I think you usedthe term defense as well, right?
Especially when in a moment youare being vulnerable about you
about yourself.
You're, you're trying to sharean experience that you are going
through, but his reaction andhis, the way he had interpreted
the story was like an attack onhim

Tam Tran (04:54):
And at that time, you know, I was in my early
twenties.
I didn't really have thelanguage to.
him understand.
And obviously like beingVietnamese American, like I was
trying to translate this likehalfway, like in English, right.
Like half Vietnamese, halfEnglish.
Right.
And they're like, he was justlike, okay, I don't really
understand.
he knew what therapy meant, buthe didn't understand why I was

(05:16):
seeking external help for itversus like going to him and
telling him about what was goingon.
And, you know, I wanted to havelike a neutral perspective about
why I was so, you know,emotional and, you know,
borderline depressed.
and I think he was like theexternal help and me going in
that direction really offendedhim.

Kristy (05:37):
was almost like, okay, I don't know if this is related at
all, but when you said keepingit inside, like keeping it
internal, it reminded me of howsome families in some Asian
families and I'm sure other inother cultures as well, mental
health is not something that isdiscussed at all.
If there is anything, quote,unquote, like wrong with your

(05:57):
mental health, then you keepthat within the family.
Like you're not gonna go out andtell everybody about it or like
go out and seek therapy becausenow that's like external.
Now you're exposing yourfamily's like dirty laundry, so
to speak.
Right.
So it, you know, the way that, Idon't know if that's related at
all to your story, but it, it meof how we try to keep this
thing, like within thehousehold, like literally within

(06:21):
the boxes of, of the four wallsso that other people cannot find
out, you

Tam Tran (06:26):
exactly.
Oh my God.
Kristy.
I'm getting like chills BEC asyou say that, because.
I literally could hear myparents' voice.
Like don't air out our, like,you know, our drama to other
people because you know, it'sshameful, you know, and it was
the shame.
I think that they felt that Iwas again, like going out,
telling random strangers aboutthe problems that they're like,

(06:48):
oh my God, they must think I'mhorrible parents or blah, blah,
blah.
You know, whatever, what thatmental chatter that was going
on.
totally getting chills rightnow.
Cause that's exactly whathappened for them.
You know, and I, you know, wasyoung.
Like I, I didn't know exactlylike how to process all of that.
So I just kind of attracted andI stopped going to therapy after
that.
And it wasn't until maybe adecade later after having my

(07:12):
first son Lucas, where I fellinto like very deep postpartum
depression.
And I knew like right then andthere, like, this is not the
type of emotion and, andbaggage.
I wanted to carry into a newrelationship with my son.
and that was like, for me, Isaid, I ultimately want to have
a different relationship, but Ican't do that if I have.

(07:35):
and I don't know what the rightwords are right now, but like,
I, I didn't want to raise mykids the way that my parents
raised me.
And there was nothing wrong withmy parents, the way they raised
me, you know, they did the bestthey could, you know, they
immigrated from the Vietnam warcame here, you know, didn't
speak a lick of English and theyraised three kids, you know,
perfectly while, and gave useverything we needed, but lacked

(07:56):
the emotional support, becausethey just didn't have those
tools and resources like we donow.
And I said to myself as a mom,you know, I, I definitely wanna
have a different relationship,but that relationship begins
with me.
And that was the thing that, youknow, the last four or five
years I've been working repair,which is a relationship to
myself.

Angie (08:17):
I think that's really brave and really wise for you to
come to the realization that,Hey, like, I don't, I don't know
if this is the right word.
Like you said, you were lookingfor the word, but I don't wanna
be that.
I don't wanna continue this.
Like.
I don't want my son to inheritthe intergenerational trauma
that I had.
I want to at least reducewhatever I can so that things

(08:39):
are easier for him.
And I feel like, you know, ourjob as that kind of middle
generation now I don't have anykids, but when I do think about
my future children, if there areany, is that the best thing that
we can do for them is to kindof, instill that instill that

(09:03):
value and knowledge that Hey,like mental health is extremely
important.
Your own health comes first.
Whereas our parents, they wantedto instill in us like work hard
to make sure your security comesfirst.
And that generational gap is, ishuge.
And it's really difficult forthem to understand.
And sometimes like, as you'resaying this, I wish they could

(09:26):
understand that.
When you go out and seek help tomake the next generation better,
it means your parents did a goodjob raising you.

Tam Tran (09:36):
mm-hmm

Angie (09:38):
And I wish way for us to communicate that.

Tam Tran (09:41):
Yeah, other than using Google translate, I haven't
quite figured out the you know,to to be like, how do I
translate like all that to themin a way that the language in
which they can speak, it bringsme back to like, you know, the
five level languages, right?
And for them, it was very much aI'm gonna provide the security
and, the physicalness of thisreality to you, making sure you

(10:03):
have a roof over your head,you're fed and you're you're
safe.
Right.
But for me, I think my emotionalneed and love language was very
much, you know, words ofaffirmation.
And it came from a place ofinsecurity, you know, and I
didn't realize that until prettyrecent that a love language of,
of words of affirmation reallyis to speak up and be open about

(10:26):
what, whatever it is that you'regoing through, cuz it's not only
something that our kids canlearn from, but I wanted to
understand them and why they.
they were the way they were.
And I think to some degree,despite the success that they
have had, they still are inthis, scarcity mindset that,
Hey, you know, I'm still kind ofoperating from the lens of being
still, you know, I'm in theVietnam War still, and they

(10:49):
still lack that security, evenafter giving us everything that
they have wanted and that theyalso have, they are like in a
place where they just don't havethe ability to be satisfied and
happy with what they have.
And for me, you know, and whereI'm going with this is that,
that basic security and what youjust said, Angie, and like also

(11:10):
the safety net, you know, iswhat creates a space for people
to openly talk up, you know,speak up and talk openly about,
you know, these mental healthchallenges.
And that's part of the, the, mymission and passion around, you
know, destigmatizing, mentalhealth it's through not just
around stories, but normalizingour emotions and saying.
I feel depressed today andthere's nothing wrong with me,

(11:33):
but I just, I just feel thisway, you know, and just creating
that safe space for people.
So that's kind of where, whereI've been in it.
And I wish I could create thatfor them and their language, but
it's been very much a barrier

Kristy (11:45):
have you, tried to communicate that with your, with
your family, because I totally.
Relate with the whole Googletranslate thing.
I do that with my mom all of thetime because we don't, we don't
talk about mental health ever.
Right.
So I, I, I didn't learn thoseterms.

Tam Tran (12:01):
don't,

Kristy (12:01):
don't know how to say certain things or express
certain emotions using thatlanguage because it wasn't used,
I wasn't taught that language soI feel you with the Google
translate have you told yourparents about that or, or at
least attempted to.

Tam Tran (12:16):
honestly, no, I think after my first episode of being
vulnerable with them and sharingthat, I've, I kind of have
retracted from that.
And I think it's because I'mafraid of hurting them and I
haven't quite found the rightwords to be able to have that,

(12:37):
you know, conversation because Ithink for them, there's also a
lot of unresolved.
Super suppressed emotions thatare so lingering that they just
don't even, I, I think that theydon't even understand or
possibly be even aware of.
So they're almost like stillstuck in, in their heads about
how they feel.
And at this point, like I'vejust learned to become more at

(13:01):
peace with what has happened andknowing that, that cycle of what
has happened with my family, itends with me and, and there's
this beautiful, like Instagrampicture.
I have to look it up, butthere's literally a, like a
shield where everything that,that, how they are raised, they
kind of pass it on.
Right.
And they have passed that ontome.

(13:21):
But parts of that, I don't wannapass onto my kids because I
don't want them to ever beafraid to be themselves.
And that for me, like stigmafree is truly like, how can we
just be ourselves and be fullyfree to.
be in that, in that space, youknow, and feel that the world is
not gonna reject us or judge us,you know, for who we are and how

(13:44):
we act and what we believe in,because everyone's right to how
they feel.
But in, in today's day and age,when we speak up, there's so
much of that stigma and I'mlike, you know, how can we, how
can I do that?
And the only way I know how todo that is to be the living
proof of that and embody thosequalities for my kids.

Kristy (14:02):
And see, is why we connected because that's the
whole reason why Angie and Istarted the podcast, right?
We we're like we everybody's gotshit.
Everybody has got their ownstories and traumas and
vulnerabilities and emotionsthat we don't like to display
outright because we're afraid ofjudgment because we're afraid of
being stigmatized.

(14:23):
And so Angie and I are like,well, should do it.

Tam Tran (14:28):
should to

Kristy (14:29):
start talking about our feelings and talking about our
mental health and whether theyare our wins or sometimes not so
wins.
And hopefully two things comeout of that as one, it
normalizes the, these types ofconversations, first of all.
And then second of all ishopefully it might encourage
others to do the same, to be alittle bit more open about their
own vulnerabilities and feelingstheir own mental wellness.

Angie (14:53):
Yeah.

Tam Tran (14:53):
And

Angie (14:53):
I think one of the other great things about having these
conversations, people are like,oh yeah, these conversations are
had everywhere, but I think it'sreally important that we
continue them because, you wereboth saying how like, oh, you
don't have this language to talkto your parents about it.
I didn't even have the languageto talk to myself or to my
friends about it.
Like even in English, because Ihad no idea what emotions are or

(15:15):
like what feelings are.
I didn't even know the emotionsand feelings are two different
things.
Like this is all stuff that Ihad to learn.
well with me, for myself, Ilearned with the help of a
therapist, how to actually.
Communicate with my own thoughtsand my own body.
And I didn't even have thelanguage for that.
So

Tam Tran (15:33):
Mm-hmm

Angie (15:34):
just these conversations, these conversations are so
important because if somebodydoesn't have access to resources
like that, then hopefully whenthey listen to, you know, our
podcast where, you know, lookthrough, look for resources,
from your Instagram, yourwebsite, then they can start to
plant these seeds in their

Tam Tran (15:54):
heads and to

Angie (15:56):
help themselves as well.

Tam Tran (15:58):
Yeah.
Thank you both for sharing that.
I, that was actually the reasonwhy when I reached out, you
know, I looked at the name and Iwas like, oh my God, there's so
much shit that I not tell mymom.
and I loved it and I, it totallyresonated.
And I love what you both aredoing because truly this is this
space that people need to feelcomfortable to, to speak up
whatever it is, becauseespecially in, you know, our

(16:19):
culture, my culturespecifically.
Right.
I don't wanna generalize here,but speaking up is not a normal.
We were so used to beingobedient, right?
Like air quotes, being obedientrequires you to be like,
whatever version, our, whateverversion parents wants us to be.
Like, for me, it was likestaying quiet, playing it safe,
you know, doing whatever theywanted.

(16:40):
And that for me, led me to aplace of people pleasing.
And, you know, I grew up withthis like hyper, awareness of
like what people wanted, becauseit was my survival tactics.
And I had no clue about any ofthis.
Like, I, I just w naturallylike, became that version.
Right.
and it's so ingrained in myidentity and it's like, now, you

(17:01):
know, it's the good news islike, Hey, I'm, I'm happy.
It gave me the ability to learnhow to be compassionate.
And empathetic to people, butalmost sometimes to a point
where I don't know how toseparate, how to like, be there
for other people, but also likeput set boundaries for my own
emotions.
Right.

(17:21):
like I take other people'sproblems and their emotions on
my back as if it's mine.
And that led me to, to some verydark places, because I realize
that that trauma or that thoseproblems are not mine, but I'm
trying to be this hero.
Right.
this people pleaser to helpthem.
And I realize that, you know, Ineed to stay in my own lane.
and that I need to also createthe boundaries for myself to say

(17:43):
no.
And that for me, these last fewyears have been so hard to do.
But when we talk about mentalhealth, like, and what I teach
people, it's like we have to setboundaries, not just for
ourselves, but with otherpeople, because the more you
people please, and the more you,Become that version of yourself.
You start to lose yourself in away that you don't even realize,

(18:05):
and you look in the mirror andyou just aren't happy with that
version of yourself.
And that type of work is like, Icall it like, you know, years of
unpacking and unlearning theparts of you that aren't really
yours, but you've kind ofcarried on because in reality,
like you're just trying toprotect yourself.
You're trying to protectyourself from getting hurt or

(18:25):
rejected.
And that has been like for me,like an eye-opening experience.
And now that I'm able to comeout of my own healing journey
and observe that I can nowrecognize the science to help
other people and the hardestshift for me.
And I'll be very honest is howdo I carry that into motherhood?
Because so much of how I motheris, is a, is this identity blend

(18:48):
of how my parents raised me andhow I'm like learning to be, you
know, adapted to this culture.
But then I realize that, youknow, With my kids.
If I want them to be themselves,I still need, there's like a
balance of like, I need to givethem the boundaries, but I also
need to give them the space forthem to be who they are.
And it's a very hard thing todo.

Kristy (19:08):
Mm-hmm You mentioned like people pleasing and then
almost to a, to a point whereyou may end up losing a bit of
your own identity because youyou're just adapting to what
everybody else wants withoutreally considering what is it
that you want.
And I can totally just see thisperson over time.

(19:30):
When you continue on thatjourney, you end up losing
yourself along the way, and youdon't even realize that you have
lost yourself because you havepicked up all these other things
from around.
You trying please trying to, youknow, say yes to everything for
example, or, or be a certainperson with different people.

(19:51):
eventually you don't even knowwho you are anymore, because
you're so used to like being inall these other roles that
aren't actually yours.

Angie (19:59):
You morph into this person.
You.
Kind of take on this identity ofwhat other people think you are.
And when you do that, you'relike, well, I'm, making sure I'm
this person.
Other people expect me to be, tomake them happy.
And then you realize, first ofall, they don't give a shit.
And second of all, now you'resuper unhappy and just all
around.
You're just like, what the, whatthe hell am I doing this for?

(20:21):
Right.
And like, that's when you go,okay, who the hell am I?
And am I even doing this?

Kristy (20:26):
You're just so lost.
You're just this like lost soul,you know, on this earth.
And you're like, who am I.

Tam Tran (20:32):
Who am I.
and that's why I love my Oraclecard decks.
just kidding, but no reality.
I like, I love it.
I love all the woo stuff, cuzthat has allowed me to step into
that space of knowing who Ireally am and people call it
soul searching.
Right.
that's like the mainstreamstream, like term of, of

Ep 50 - Tam Tran (20:49):
soul

Tam Tran (20:49):
searching, but yes, absolutely.
All those things.
I call myself the professionalchameleon.
Like I was so good at likeblending in right with like
other people because I, I was ata place where I was groomed to
like want to be loved andaccepted.
so I'm the youngest of three,three, and my brother and my
sister are eight and 10 yearsolder.
So obviously, the accident thatI was supposed to be, boy, and

(21:12):
then, you know, the accident,eight years later I came out, my
parents were like, oh, anyways,so they, they have.
Like they truly have helped mebecome this professional
chameleon and unknowingly likeunknowingly.
Right.
that they, that, that was whathappened.
And I think that's where I washaving this identity crisis
because as I grew up and Ilearned to develop confidence in

(21:33):
my own voice and realizing whatmy soul wanted, it was like very
much this cognitive dissonanceof like where my parents wanted
me to be and where I wanna be.
And they're not in the sameislands of a world, you know?
And that for me has been so hardbecause I so much want to be the
obedient good daughter to them,but I don't wanna do it at the

(21:55):
expense of my own health.
And that has been a turningpoint for me.
but a lot of people don't havethat luxury and they're still
learning like how do I separatewhat my parents want and that
identity.
And somehow that has becomereally part of my core identity.
And then now, you know,separating that to, to kind of
pivot and turn into this newperson.
And shedding all of thatbullshit.

(22:17):
Right?
That's not yours.
And, you know, like, like asnake, like you're kind of like
really just ripping out allthese pieces and you're grieving
and hurting from all the, likegoing against this grain.
Right.
Of what people want you to be.
That, that for me is like not, Ifeel like not like people don't
speak up or talk about it a lot.

(22:38):
and I just wanna touch on it alittle bit just to give people
context.
If, if they ever go through it,you know, as you morph change,
you're often gonna have to gothrough a grieving process and
that grieving process is verypainful.
your body sometimes will fightit because it doesn't feel safe
to shed and be this new person.
So you're kind of in this, like,just imagine like you're being

(23:02):
pulled in two different placeswhere, you know, you need to go
to a certain direction or, youknow, you need to go in this
way, but you can't because.
You're so used to being apeople, pleaser, you know, all
this stuff.
Right.
And so you're being pulled back.
And so the grieving part is likelearning to just let go of that
part and being okay with it andjust forgiving yourself of all

(23:27):
the things you've done to keepyourself safe and forgiving
yourself.
Yeah.
And the reason why I speak upabout this now is because I was
going through this, all thisstuff, and I didn't have the
words or the ability to likeunderstand it all.
And I was like, grieving thispart of me.
That's like, oh, you know,Tammy, you did such a great job.

(23:49):
You got to this place, you know,you're successful.
I mom, and all these things, butwhat has got me here in this
space has kept me trapped frombeing where I wanna be to speak
up and heal more people.
And I have to learn how to letthis old identity go.
so that I can be truly in anembodied place to help.
You know the world, but I can'tdo that if I'm people pleasing,

(24:09):
like I have to be able to breakthat.
And the grieving part, thehardest part about it is you
kind of do it by yourself and itsucks.

Angie (24:19):
And

Kristy (24:20):
lonely and, and it's, you know, anytime you fight
against the grain in anything,it's very exhausting cuz you're
just climbing uphill and you'redoing it by yourself.

Tam Tran (24:31):
Yeah.

Kristy (24:32):
There may be moments when you're just like, you know,
and maybe you question yourself,but sometimes even though you're
going uphill and you're carryinga lot of this baggage, it it's
okay to just take a break, butthen keep going afterwards.
And once you're there, once youget past that pain and the
grieving, then it can feel a lotbetter, right?

Tam Tran (24:53):
yeah, absolutely.
You get to a point where youstart to accept.
Both sides, both the fact thatyou're grieving, but excited
that you are heading in theright direction for once.
And the hardest part sometimesis like learning to, you know,
become your own cheerleader.

(25:14):
And you know, like, if I coulddo a quick plug, I, have this
book called, sorry, I had tograb it because I was like, what
is it?
The high five habit.
And it's by Mel Robbins.
And she basically teaches youhow to be your own cheerleader.
And the reason why a high fiveis so, you know, effective in
doing this self love, you know,building your own confidence

(25:35):
sort of thing is because whenyou give someone else a high
five, you always smile.
Right.
It's like hard for you not tosmile.
And it's cuz

Kristy (25:43):
I'm imagining it now.

Angie (25:45):
no, I like, have I ever asked?
But yeah.

Tam Tran (25:48):
hard

Kristy (25:48):
Not,

Tam Tran (25:50):
Yeah, exactly.
So like, you know, affirmationsare great, but when you do it in
the mirror, it's so much morepowerful cause you see yourself,
but like let's be real.
It's pretty uncomfortable tostare at yourself unless you're
putting on makeup or something.

Kristy (26:02):
Right.

Tam Tran (26:04):
yes, yeah.
I have a hard time, like staringat myself, like, what am I, you
know, anyways, so you start kindof, or analyzing, but if you
raise your hand and and as yousay, the affirmation out loud,
it's hard for you not to smileand that positive, like, look as
you stare at yourself and givingyourself a high five and saying
the affirmation and doing thatmirror work is so effective in

(26:25):
building confidence and learninghow to speak up and providing
yourself that cheerleadingmoment that you probably need in
in a day.
And that was the first thing Idid with my son this year, which
was, you know, how do I helpbuild my own confidence, but
take him with me in thisjourney.
And we do it together.
And it's great to see that, youknow, he kind of learns OB that
kids obviously learn from whatyou do, not what you say.

(26:46):
Right.
They, they just follow you.
And we, we had this picturewhere we both like high five and
he's truly smiling from a placeof like genuine, you know, I'm
truly authentically happy.
And so am I, but it was so hardin the very beginning to be
like, well, high five myself inthe morning.
Yeah.
but the more I did it, the moreI started to recognize, like,

(27:08):
and say to myself, you know, Tamyou're tired today, but I'm so
proud of you for getting up 5:00AM to go work out.
You know what I mean?
And like you being, you becomingthat cheerleader and voice for
yourself so quick black from MelRobbins.
And I hope you check it out.
we'll

Kristy (27:24):
link the book in the description.
What I really loved, is thatyou, you gave yourself the space
to recognize and acknowledgewhen you're not feeling so great
during that high five.
And then, and then comes theaffirmations of like, Hey, you
are doing so great because of X,Y, Z.

(27:45):
And I think it's the balanceit's not just like all.
All this positivity, cuz I thinktoxic positivity is, is a thing
I think there can be just toomuch of just hyperfocusing on
all the good, happy, joyful,like rainbows and butterflies
and unicorns,.
What I really appreciate is likeaccepting, acknowledging and

(28:07):
being okay with, Hey, I'm I'mfeeling a bit tired today, but
I'm excited to be chatting withTam about like being in the
middle generation how to balancethat role.
And you know, because as humanswe're gonna go through all
different sorts of emotions andfeelings throughout even a day,

(28:31):
right?
Let tomorrow or next week or theweek after that, like it changes
all the time.
But.
We need the space and, theability to acknowledge that we
can feel all these spectrums ofthings and it's okay.

Tam Tran (28:45):
yeah, I love what you said about space because a lot
of people.
Myself included in this journey.
we're so used to plug pluggingin that, that space and the
void, right.
With things to do and, you know,born and raised in Silicon
valley.
Like you kind of keep going,going, you don't know how to

(29:06):
create this space to giveyourself time, to really be with
the emotion.
and that's a thing abouthealing, you know, like,
sometimes an emotion comes up.
There's a few stages.
A lot of people, when they feelit emotion, they start to
retract, right.
Or they start to like going intothis fixing mode, like, oh, I
need to fix my emotions.
I need to fix how, why I'mfeeling this way.

(29:28):
you know, or at least start topush it down and say, you know
what, I'm too busy right now.
I don't have time to deal withthis anger or whatever's going
on right now.
So I'm just gonna push it awayfor a second.
Right.
And you know, and another is, islike keeping myself busy with
and distracted and working and.
Alcohol or whatever it is,right.
Whatever your vice is to like,not deal with it.

(29:49):
And it's because the space, whenpeople have this space and time,
it's scary.
It's scary for them to like, bealone with their emotions
because they have no idea whatto do with it.
And the reason why I bring thisup is because I was very much
like everyone has their viceright.
Everyone has a way to like dealwith their emotions.

(30:09):
Mine was working.
Like I just constantly workedand overworking.
And then after work, you getstressed out.
So you're gonna go drink somealcohol or like, you're gonna
go.
And for me, it was likeemotional eating, which is why I
love food adventures.
Right.
just like constantly feeding andputting all this stuff in my
body because I didn't wannafeel, I was trying to numb the

(30:30):
pain for a long time.
And a lot of people do becauseit's scary to be, to deal with
it and be with it.
And the truth is.
You have 60,000 thoughts a day80% are negative.
80% of your 60,000 thoughts arenegative.
And then on top of that, you'renot even, oh no, let's just,
yeah, let's

Angie (30:49):
just 48,000.
48,000 negative

Kristy (30:52):
what the fuck?

Tam Tran (30:55):
That's a

Angie (30:55):
lot of negative thoughts.

Tam Tran (30:56):
a lot of negative thoughts.
a lot of them are repetitive,from the past, you know, just
whatever that has happened toyou, right?
Those are programs that are inyour, in your head space and 95%
of the time.
You're not even consciouslyaware that you have those
thoughts.
Isn't that freaking crazy?
Like, let's just pause for asecond.
Let's about this.
Yes.
So if you have all thesethoughts that are running your

(31:19):
brain and running, how, youknow, how you behave and act and
how you feel, if you guys haveseen the movie, what's that
word?
What's that movie that onDisney, the emotions inside

Kristy (31:29):
Pixar Yeah.
Yeah.

Angie (31:30):
Yeah.

Tam Tran (31:31):
Oh, my God.
So good.
We were watching with my sonyesterday and I was like, this
is exactly what's going on in mybrain.
love that movie.
a joy, the sad.
Right.
and, and just like every, so inthe movie, there's like a ball
that comes out, right?
The ball that comes out, that,you know, whatever emotions that
you have and it's stored in yourbody.
So they give your brain likethat, where you have all of
these little balls of emotionsthat are stored in your body.

(31:54):
And what happens is that itcreates a framework for you of
how you should see the world.
And if you're not aware of it,if you don't bring awareness to
what's going on, and if youdon't realize that 95% of your
thoughts are like unconsciously,you're just not even aware of
it.
And much of it, it beingnegative, right?
Like it's no fricking wonderthat we're always reacting.
And if we don't give ourselvesthis space to let it out and we

(32:16):
keep suppressing it, you know,is it true that sometimes you
feel like the same things arehappening over and over and
over.
And for me that was it.
It was like, why do I keepfeeling shitty?
Well, let's not deal with it andI'm gonna go like eat.
So I don't feel it, or, youknow, work or, you know, drink.
So I don't feel it.
And then it keeps coming back upand I'm like, dude, I thought I

(32:37):
just dealt with this by eatingor drinking or hang out friends
being distracted, you know?

Kristy (32:43):
Numbing distracting, trying to fix it.
See like

Angie (32:47):
And we don't realize that it's like, every time we push it
away, it like comes back harder.
Cuz there's like this, like it'slike an emotional debt and the
interest builds.
So the more you push it away,the harder it comes back to hit
you.
And we don't realize that untilit actually happens.
And we're like, oh fuck.
I fucked up.

Kristy (33:05):
See, that was Angie's finance background, just like
seeping into

Angie (33:10):
what all the interest,

Kristy (33:11):
accruing emotional interest.
It.

Tam Tran (33:15):
Oh my God.
I love it.
I love that.
It's a compound interest ofdealing with your emotions.
That's totally, truly whathappens.
the reason why I wanna bring itup is because part of, part of
the stigma is, and in my cultureis like, Hey, you're being too
emotional.
Like stop it.
Right.
Or you're too sensitive.

(33:36):
Stop it.
Right.
And it's the emotional, like ouremotions are actually like a
compass it's supposed to guideyou to where you need to be.
But if you suppress right.
If you're so used to suppressingand pushing it away, how can you
know which direction to go?

Kristy (33:53):
No wonder we're all feeling lost.

Angie (33:55):
love that.
that analogy.
I love analogy like everyepisode I try to work some
analogy into it and, thatcompass one, I love it.
know we're pivoting a littlebit, but you went to therapy,
you told your dad about it.
He really shut you down aboutit.
And this was when you were inyour twenties.

(34:16):
And then when you had your firstson, Lucas, you decided to go
back to therapy again.
Does your dad know about it nowor does, does your mom and dad
know about it now?

Tam Tran (34:26):
No, they don't.
Yeah.
they don't, and it, and I didn'tshare that with them, for the
fear of both like the shame thatthey would place on it, but also
the shame possibly of how Iwould feel.
And this is all speculation,right.
Nothing's confirmed.
Like, but in my mind, I couldn'topen myself to share that with

(34:47):
them again.
so I went to therapy and this isa great pivot because this is
where we'll bring in the woo woostuff.
for all those that are listeningand are interested, I did go to
therapy for a period of time.
When you know, I was goingthrough postpartum.
I was very against like takinganything, you know, cuz very
much, you know, the world islike, here's a magic pill, you
know, take it and, and you know,and there's nothing wrong with
that.

(35:07):
Absolutely.
Everyone needs something.
Right.
But for me, I chose not tobecause I was, I wanted to deal
with it myself.
And when I was going throughtherapy, something about therapy
itself, it was great awareness.
And I call it the top downhealing where it's all about
like talk therapy and they helpyou take these, you know,

(35:28):
frameworks to help youunderstand what's going on.
But the understanding of whatwas going on didn't make me feel
better.
that was the reason why Iactually stopped therapy.
Cuz I said it must be somethingelse out there.
And I, I refused to takesomething cuz I knew that there
was something more and somethingthat my soul was like a, a path
that it was trying to take me.

(35:48):
And what I realized that, whereit was taking me was down the
spiritual path.
I was going through a hugespiritual awakening.
And it was through me goingthrough like, Hey, I'm, I'm
tired of going to therapy.
Is there anything else?
I found alternative healingthrough Reiki and spiritual, my
spiritual path.
and I'm so glad I did it becauseit is the catalyst that has

(36:10):
completely changed.
Not just my trajectory of whereI wanna be in my life, but also
how I serve and help otherpeople.
And it's been this beautiful,like awakening, and I'm so glad
that it led me down this path.
And I wanted to share that forthose who are listening, because
sometimes you don't realize,kind of like the movie soul,
like your soul picked, all thestuff that has happened to you.

(36:32):
and I'm sorry, I'm like goingthrough a bunch of Disney
movies, cause we're goingthrough a bunch with my son

Angie (36:37):
and

Tam Tran (36:38):
you know, soul came up cuz it's like your soul for
better or worse.
you have to think your soul forthis, it picks all of this
bullshit that you're supposed todeal with.
And it was always meant to leadyou down a certain path.
And for me, it was to learn howto speak up and be myself so
that I can then be a voice forother people in the community

(36:59):
who may not necessarily have,not just the words, but being
able to identify like whatthey're going through and move
past that and giving themselvesa chance to truly come home to
who they really are.
And that for me has been just abeautiful awakening and journey.
So that's kind of where my pathhas been led.
My parents do not know anythingI do.
So the shit, I don't tell mymom, I don't tell my mom

(37:20):
anything

Kristy (37:20):
about

Tam Tran (37:21):
any of this stuff.
cause they probably were like,what?
but it's kind of like, you know,I guess Buddhism, Zen, whatever
you wanna call it.
Right?
What, there's always this beliefof a higher being out there that
supports you and, and that'skind of where I'm at, right?

Kristy (37:34):
And I almost think of it as like you not telling your
parents is a form of boundaries.
You know, that you are yourparents because you know, it
could hurt them or, you know,so, so in a way you not sharing
is, is a way that you are lovingyour parents by them and drawing

(37:56):
the boundaries for both them andyourself too.
It's, it's a protective thingfor you as well, right?
To, to have boundaries and spaceand, your mental health journey
and your wellness journey, youneed to have that space without
your parents in it.
Angie and I are both, we both goto therapy.
So, and we've talked abouttherapy, on our show many times,

(38:17):
and we're a big proponents ofdoing therapy, but we always
emphasize like, There are somany different methods of going
through this journey and youhave to figure out what can work
for you.
Right.
And you know, it's not like oneperson's method is gonna work
for you.
These are just an options.
Like, Hey, here, listen, theseare all the different options

(38:39):
available.
First of all, let's likedestigmatize all the different
options.
Okay.
and this like giant menu.
Try some, you might find oneimmediately.
You might not you might gotta gothrough and try a few other
flavors.
And then until you finally cometo, to be like, Hey, this
actually resonates with me a lotmore.
And it sounds like for you, Tamis that therapy almost gave you

(39:03):
the why, but it didn't reallygive you the how, right.
great starting point somefoundational work.
And even the fact that you wereready to even go back to therapy
is like a big step forward.
And that started the journey orrestarted the journey again.
And you're like, okay, well nowI, I get why, but like what,

(39:24):
what do I do with thisinformation now?
do I, how do I move on?
Like, how do I, you know,continue this self growth
journey, and therapy wasn't,wasn't giving you the how sounds
like.
Whereas, Reiki was,

Tam Tran (39:40):
you know it

Kristy (39:41):
being in touch with your spiritual side that did help you
find out how to perceive forwardin your journey.
So I, I like woo woo stuff.
as someone who's like trained inscience and goes to therapy, I
love woo woo things.
And I was just talking to myother friend, like last,

(40:02):
literally last night we weretalking about religion and
spirituality and, and I grew up,In a Buddhist fam?
Well, my mom is Buddhist and mydad is just nothing.
So I was more in tuned in like,you know, going to do Buddhist
practices, even though I have noidea doing.
Right.

(40:22):
But I just do them because myfamily's doing them.
I would, I will go to temple onnew year's and like, you know, I
will learn certain mantras andblah, blah, blah.
And then, and even though Ican't explain it, and even
though I didn't understand thestories, I like, I feel at
peace, like I feel an affinityto the religion.
Right.
Or I feel an affinity to, toBuddha.

(40:43):
And for me it was like Guam.
and, and I can't, I can'texplain that.
And, you know, sometimes we dothings for like, we'll light
incense for all the differentdeities and.
My Western side of me is like,this is ridiculous.
Like, this doesn't make anysense.
Right.
But then but then my spiritualside is like, you know what,

(41:05):
like, why doesn't it make sense?
Like, the universe is prettyconfusing.
You know, who, who, am I to say?
This doesn't make sense.
And if I feel good about it andI'm not harming anybody, then
like I'm gonna keep doing it.

Tam Tran (41:20):
yeah,

Kristy (41:21):
tell us more about, you know, your journey with Reiki
and how that is incorporatedinto your practice.

Tam Tran (41:27):
Yeah, absolutely.
so as you shared all that, I waslike, I need to light my instant
really quick, cuz I need I needa little bit more of that.
so I honestly stumbled upon itliterally by, by accident it
just said alternative healing.
And I remember going into theroom with this practitioner, and

(41:48):
she kind of put her hands on topof me and she didn't, she would
do light touches.
And as she did, I felt this warmtransfer of energy from her to
me.
And she's basically justchanneling literally the
universe's energy through herhands to me.
And as she did all the thingsthat I felt started to.

(42:10):
It's like the, you know, like,there's like when you go to the
beach, there's like lots ofwaves.
It started to like slow down andvery like, calm, just like calms
my entire body.
And I was like, I don't knowwhat the hell she just did, but
whatever she did, I want more ofthat.
You know?
And when you talked about likealternative forms of, of healing
and therapy, right?
Absolutely.
I think of like the buffet,right?

(42:30):
You go to buffet, everyone canchoose what they want.
but it's also the run.
Like, is there something else inthis buffet that I'm not seeing?
And I think for me, Reiki andall the spiritual, like
practices are so much, there'sactually a lot of different
types of alternative healingthat I wasn't aware of and
whatever she did, I was like,this is so amazing.
Like I wanna keep feeling likethis every day.

(42:52):
So I kept going to her and wenot only talked through what was
going on, but she har helped methrough kind of this hands on
like healing approach toprocess.
Because the emotions were sotrapped in my body, I had no
words to, to like put to thename or to the feeling.
and I was so much in my headabout the emotion.

(43:14):
I couldn't drop into my body tofeel it.
So Reiki just allowed me tolike, shut my mind off and go
straight into the feeling zoneand like calm all the feelings.
And now that I do Reiki forother people and I teach it, I'm
happy to do it for you ladies,by the way.
so

Ep 50 - Tam Tran (43:33):
you

Tam Tran (43:34):
both can feel what it, the, the amazing feeling, it's
and I can do it virtually, oryou can do it in person, right.
It doesn't really matter.
but truly you come from thisdeep place of like calm and
peace.
And from this place of peace andcalm, you can then start to
understand and observe what'sgoing on and hear your voice.
So that's raking a nutshell.
It's really channeling and Uusing the universe's life,

(43:55):
energy that's truly around you.
a lot of people just don't knowthat they it's there.
And Reiki was the beginning ofmy healing journey.
And now that I'm teaching it andsharing with other people, what
I've learned about healing, likevery much like therapy is this
top down approach, which isabsolutely needed to understand
having the, the knowledge right.

(44:17):
To, to understand how you'refeeling.
But Reiki is like thisenergetics piece that's really
around you using that energy toheal yourself.
And then now, I'm incorporatingbreathwork and, breathwork is
truly a bottoms up approachwhere you just bypass the, you
know, intellectual mind ofthinking, thinking, thinking,

(44:37):
like, I'm gonna think my waythrough an emotion, right?
or think my way through thisproblem or whatever.
but really come using your bodyto help you understand the
wisdom that's truly there.
Cuz you have all the answers.
You just don't know.
You have the answers because youaren't there yet.
You don't feel it in your body.
So that is for me, like thespiritualness of like of Reiki
and how beautiful this practiceis.

(44:59):
But more deeply what I'velearned is that the wisdom I was
like, almost like, I almostforgot about it was deeply
stored in my body.
And it came because it came froma place of trauma.
When I experienced a lot oftrauma as a child, I abandoned
my body.
And I didn't know that until Istarted to practice Reiki,

(45:21):
mindfulness breathwork andrealized that all of this, all
of this trauma that I've had, Iforgot about that inner child of
myself.
And I just left her there.
And now that I'm back and kindof doing the work inner work to
bring her out and let her knowthat she is completely safe to

(45:41):
be who she is to feel safe.
And know that I'm with herwalking with her every step of
the way.
She's not gonna be by herselfanymore.
I'm now integrating the parts ofme that I have lost before.
Right.
I just pushed it away.
Now that I've gone through goingthrough this healing journey
with Reiki, with all thesedifferent tools and modalities,
I can start to integrate thosefaces and feel whole again.

(46:03):
And that's the person you'retalking to today.

Angie (46:06):
Well, I think

Kristy (46:07):
I'm getting emotional.

Tam Tran (46:09):
much peace

Angie (46:10):
your voice.
You know, like when you meetsomebody, you kind of get that
vibe, get that a from them.
And I think the way someonetalks is a really big reflection
of their inner workings as well.
So I think the way you spoke itwas very eloquent, very
peaceful, and it made me feelcalm, listening to.

Kristy (46:31):
I, I didn't feel calm.
not, not not to say it wasn'tcalming, but I, I felt a lot of
emotions come up for me becauseof all these, key words that you
use, like trauma in yourchildhood, you know, finally
bringing out that inner childand almost like giving her this
massive hug and telling her thatit's okay, you are now safe.

(46:54):
you weren't taken care ofperhaps during that traumatic
time, but now I'm here to takecare of you and I'm gonna walk
with you.
And there were parts, you know,that were lost, but now, now
we're gonna.
Find those and behold againtogether.
And that made me want to cry.

(47:14):
I'm I am curious though, Tam,little Tammy, sorry, little Tam
little your inner child, youknow, what, what was, what was
going on there and what weresome of those traumatic
memories?

Tam Tran (47:30):
Oh, man, we're going deep today.

Kristy (47:32):
Welcome to shit.
We don't tell mom.

Tam Tran (47:35):
totally right.
This uncomfortableness.
let me just reset a little bit.
of the things I never told myparents truly was being bullied.
when I was young, I was probablyin sixth grade and it was, and
you know, being, being, youknow, at that age, like you
don't really have the, the toolsto really speak up to.
And I think also the way, likein the Vietnamese culture, we

(47:57):
just learned not to speak up.
We normally is not speaking up.
So I think that behavior justcarried in.
So I never told my parents thatI was bullied at a young age.
It was probably around sixthgrade.
And at that time, like AOLinstant messenger, for those
that can remember what that isor aim.
Right.
You know, I remember gettinglike chats, like random chats,
random people would ping me andthey would call me names, you

(48:20):
know, and bully me, you know,and saying like, you know,
you're an African blackcreature, because I'm actually a
dark Vietnamese person.
So people are like, and, andthat was like the term they
called it ABC African blackcreature.
So they would call me that allthroughout middle school.
Yeah.
And, I very much wore that, thaton my, like, that kind of put my

(48:41):
shield up.
and I never really toldactually, you know, now that I
think back to it, I don't knowif I ever told my friends and it
was one of my friend's brotherthat was doing that.
And he told all his friends, andit made me feel very insecure,
you know, all throughout.
Middle school and high school.
I very much felt like unacceptedand unloved for who I was or who

(49:05):
I am.
And it stuck with me, you know,that layered with how my parents
are very much a tiger, you know,tiger parents are traditional
tiger parents.
there's just a lot of unpacked,like trauma that I went through
with how they raised me.
and I'm thinking of a story totell without going too deep or
not extending this podcast toomuch, but I'm happy to unpack

(49:28):
more of it's helpful.
It was in high school.
I remember like, you know, highschool, high school love, right.
I was in this relat.
And, you know, my parents werevery much like you can't have a
boyfriend, you can, you know,all this stuff because you're
gonna get pregnant and like dropoutta high school.
Right.
Like all the worst things thatthey think of, they kind of
projected.
and I think because I was inthis relationship, you know, I

(49:49):
thought I was obviously in lovewith this person.
Right.
And, my parents, they would putlike stuff on my computer, like
screen my chats and like monitoreverything.
yeah.
So I couldn't even like talkanyway.
So they, they used all thatstuff against me.
my parents would show up, youknow, like when you watch,
turning red.

Kristy (50:06):
Yes.

Tam Tran (50:07):
Okay.
The moment when the mom was atthe school, that was my dad.
That was my dad.
He literally, and, and it waslike, kind of like peeking to
make sure I wasn't, you know,Like doing things, you know, and
I'm like, dude, I'm like notdumb.
Right.
but my parents would just like,be so controlling about it.
Like I could never be standingnext to a guy cuz they would

(50:29):
think that that that was myboyfriend or whatever.
I couldn't have study groups.
I never slept over at people'shouses.
I didn't go to most of thedances in high school.
because of, you know, my parentsare just like super controlling
and crazy about it.
And literally that control likethem being so controlling and
not knowing how to trust me it,I just didn't learn how to trust

(50:50):
myself when I made decisions.
So that was like an example ofthe, like the, the trauma that I
went through with my parentsbullied like that.
Just, I don't know how to saythis, but like I became so
insecure.
I was insecure from how peoplebullied me and I was insecure
because my parents didn't trustme.
And then on top of that, theywould always, you know, say

(51:11):
like, Hey, you know, you're notdoing enough.
Or, you know, like you're alwaysfat, right.
All this stuff.
Right?
So like that type of thingreally just impacted my ability
to be confident in myself.
And no matter what I did, Inever felt like I was good
enough.
And it literally drove me to aplace of burnout where I was
overexerting myself.

(51:32):
Again, going back to the people,pleasing tendencies.
That's what I did.
I overworked to stay distracted,to not deal with all of this
baggage that I had wayunderneath.
Right.
from how my parents raised meand treated me and I never felt
accepted.
And it was hard to share thiswith my friends that they know
about it, obviously, but it washard because they didn't
understand how my parents couldtreat me the way they did.

(51:52):
but I always felt like the blacksheep.
With my friends, because myfriends could go out and do all
these things, but I was at home,you know, and with my books and
all that stuff.
Right.
and I spent many, many yearslike blog it on my Xanga post,
right.
Like about how I felt liketrapped and not being able to be
myself and so suppressed,suppressed to be who I was.

(52:15):
the version you see now,obviously in that you are
hearing now has done the work toreally overcome that.
But I still feel like I'munpacking 30 plus years of that,
you know?

Kristy (52:25):
Yeah, thank you so much for, for being vulnerable and
sharing that story with us.
And I think the unpacking andthe learning and the growing
that's, that's a forever thingbecause we're constantly
growing.
We're constantly discoveringthings about ourselves, we're
learning new things.
So then, our identities willchange based off of the things
that we learn.

(52:46):
that work con continues.
But I, I also want to just likerecognize and thank you again,
sharing that story, butrecognize the work that you've
already done to be who you aretoday.

Tam Tran (53:00):
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you for seeing me, foralso creating a space for women
like me, moms like me to speakup because.
Speaking up is again, like not,not a normal thing in the
culture.
and feeling safe to speak up isjust a whole nother thing.
But it's the space that you bothhave created for me to allow me
to be myself.

(53:21):
So that for me has been just anincredible experience.
So thank you, both

Kristy (53:26):
Thank you.
all this like, oh,

Tam Tran (53:29):
all the emotions

Kristy (53:30):
know.
think in, in so many ways, like,despite all the, the trauma.
and being isolated and beingalone, not being able to share
with your friends or yourfamily, it was also a way that
you were, I think, protectingyourself because you're, there
is shame and judgment.

Tam Tran (53:50):
When you share

Kristy (53:50):
with friends or family, they're gonna, they may judge
differently, and I think a lotof people who have had childhood
bullying, I have alsoexperienced childhood bullying
in different contexts, but like,I don't want to talk about it
with my friends, especially atthat time, because it is like, I
don't wanna be the weird oneout.
Like I already feel like whenI'm already in the group.

(54:13):
Right.
Because of my family upbringingor whatever it is.
so why would I openly statethat?
Oh, I am the odd one out.
Like people are, you know,targeting me and calling me
these names.
Like, why would I want to givethem more of a reason to F.
Make me feel like I shouldn'tbelong in this circle, you know?

Tam Tran (54:32):
yeah.
Oh, yes.
I think what you just said verysubtly.
I just wanna go back to that.
It was, I think it's the word,shame.
People feel ashamed, you know,and it's, here's the thing that
I've learned too.
It's like, If you knew youcouldn't fail, right.
What would you do in your life?
It was a question that wasreally hard for me because there

(54:53):
is so much shame when you failbeing Vietnamese, American,
being Asian.
Like our parents is like, if youdon't win, right.
If you don't do, if you don'tget that, A like, you're not
great.
that word shame is such a thingthat I wanna normalize.
Like how can we normalize theshame and the guilt that we feel
every day, you know, when wedon't do things the right way.

(55:14):
Right.
and I think what it be where itbegins really is to say it out
loud.
Like, let's just say it outloud.
Like I feel ashamed right.
Of that part of my life.
I felt, I felt so much shamegrowing up, being dark skinned
Vietnamese, possibly not asskinny as my parents want me to

(55:36):
be.
There was so much shame.
And I carried that with me intomotherhood operated from that
place of shame because it waswhat I was told and what I truly
believed for most of my life.
think what set me free from theshame was not just openly

(55:57):
talking about it and saying Ihave, or I feel shame.
sorry, I shouldn't say I am.
You know, it's just like, I feelthe shame.
but it was the work aroundrebuilding and reprioritizing
myself that I could trulyforgive myself for the shame.
And it was everything I did upto this point was just to

(56:17):
protect myself, like you said,but it was my survival tactics.
Right.
I Sur this is how I survived inthis culture.
and.
Now, like looking back and goingback to like, thinking about my
parents, I think what they'vedone up until this point really,
and maybe for the rest of theirlife, that they may not realize
is that this is their survivaltactics.
They are surviving, and this isso deeply embodied and ingrained

(56:40):
in their, their cells that theyjust don't know any other way.
And I've learned to forgive themfor that, that what they did to
control everything and likemaking sure, you know, I was
safe right.
From their point of view.
all the things that they did ashurtful as it is.
I know that they did it out ofplace of love, even though
they're trying to controleverything.

(57:01):
Right.
But the control part of it now,like looking back is like they
controlled all these thingsbecause they wanted to feel
safe.
And now having this like 360degree view of everything.
I can say, like, I just, youknow, we just gotta let that go.
Right?
The shame, the guilt and thestories, because the more we

(57:23):
become like attached to that aspart of our identity, it is so
hard to change.
We just can't.
And so I just wanna touch on thothose pieces a little bit,
because it is so normal to feelthe shame.
It is so normal to feel guiltyfor prioritizing your own mental
health.
Right.
But you have to, you absolutelyhave to, cuz there's no other
way for you to like, no one, noone's gonna do it for you.

(57:46):
No, one's gonna do it for you.
No, one's gonna tell you that.
Like we have to take theresponsibility now as adults to
just do the work.

Angie (57:53):
the hard part like we're still trying to get the hang of
it.
You know, Tam's still trying toget the hang of it, myself and
Christie.
We're all still trying to getthe hang of it, but you can
just, only thing you can do iskeep practicing.

Tam Tran (58:07):
Yep, absolutely keep trying every day and two steps
forward.
One step back is completelynormal.
cuz healing is really non-linearin school and what we're taught
in society is like one plus oneequals two very linear, right.
But growth and healing isabsolutely non-linear.
So for those who love math,right?
Non-linear just like reallythink about that.
Like it's very much the ZiggyZig thing that like they, some

(58:31):
of the stuff may not everconnect and it doesn't even
matter.
The point is we just gottaforgive ourselves that this is
just all this shit's happeningand be okay with the chaos that
the chaos and how we feel.
It's not who we are.

Kristy (58:45):
Dang, the chaos is not who we are and, forgiving your
family, recognizing that theywere just, again, doing the best
that they can with the resourcesand tools that they have.
Yes, it has caused harm and painfor us as their offsprings, but
who we are now trying to takecare of our inner child.
That's separate from ourparents.

(59:07):
And those two different thingsand, and the, but the work needs
to be involved in all of those,know, forgiving that is work in
taking care of your inner childthat is work in the growth and
identity discovering and, youknow, con the healing, of that
is work.

Tam Tran (59:28):
Mm-hmm.

Kristy (59:38):
How are you feeling about, reading some Oracle
cards?

Tam Tran (59:43):
Yeah, I'm stoked.
have you guys both ever gottenlike an Oracle card slash card
reading before?

Kristy (59:49):
no.
So what we're doing now is Angieand I are gonna do some work, I
guess, learning a little bitmore about our own identities
live in this episode.
So, is it, is when you doreadings, is it usually for
another person or.
For yourself as well like this.

Tam Tran (01:00:09):
both.
Yeah.
So I start doing it for myself.
so, you know, like meanwhile,like mindfulness and meditation,

Kristy (01:00:14):
Mm

Tam Tran (01:00:15):
like okay.
Is dropping in into yourself.
So once you do a little bit ofthat, I do a lot of readings for
myself when I feel lost orstuck, or I'm just like all in
the head and I'm like, oh, I, Ineed, like, I need something.
So I'll do a little bit of likea short meditation and then I'll
do Reiki and then I'll gostraight into, a card reading
for myself.
And then I just kind of use thatto like, journal.

(01:00:36):
So it's almost like a good wayto reflect.
It's like, alright, what's themessage for today.
Like I asked very open-endedquestions.
Like, what is the message of theuniverse?
What does it want me to knowtoday?
And I'll write it down and I'lljust, journal on it for a few
moments.
And then I've been doing it forgosh, a few years now.
And you'll notice if you lookback, there's like sometimes
consistent, things like you kindof pull the same card sometimes.

(01:01:00):
a great reflection tool.
So that's kind of what I do.
and then I do for other people,obviously.

Kristy (01:01:05):
I'm super into it right now.

Tam Tran (01:01:06):
So I didn't realize I was doing this probably at a
very young age, like sixthgrade.
I remember gonna Marshall's myparents.
You know, like, Hey, just go runaround and do do your thing.
Right.
And I picked up a card deck andit was called I-Ching and
I-Ching was like the very firstOracle card deck that I ever
picked up.
It was like, okay, cool,whatever.
Right.
I'm gonna bring it back home.
And I remember doing cardreadings for myself and for my

(01:01:27):
friends for a while.
And I pretty much like packedthat in a box for a while until
I had my spiritual awakeningagain.
And I was like, oh my God, I'vebeen doing this my whole life.
and I forgot about it.
So it's one of those tools that,any, so let's just, let's just
destigmatize a little bit,right?
This is not about fortunetelling this is not about like,

(01:01:47):
you know, the future state verymuch.
It can be if that's what comesout.
Right.
But this is just really a tool,a resource that you can use, to
really just understand yourselfa little bit better.
That's how I like to frame likea reading.
Nor car reading or Terra carreading.
obviously there's a lot ofamazing readers out there for
me, the way I like to do it is Ipretty much, once I have your

(01:02:07):
permission, right, AngieChristie, you know, I'll pull a
card for you and I'll read it toyou and ask you, how does this
resonate?
Right?
And sometimes for me, it's justabout like tuning into what you
need in this moment.
And that's how I like to usethese cards so anyone can learn
it and do it.
and if you're interested, youknow, send me a DM at stigma,

(01:02:29):
free movement, just send me aDM.
If you're interested, happy todo free readings.
I love this stuff and I loveteaching it and sharing with
people.
It's one of the tools.
Kind of on a weekly basis.
I love it so much that my sonand I do it.
and it, I teach him and he'slike, mom, let me do a reading
for you.
pick a card.
Yeah.
He'll pick a card for me.
He'll pick a card for dad andpick a card for himself, not

(01:02:50):
knowing.
And I think he's just likehaving fun and that's the whole
point, right?
Like, so all seriousness, it'sa, it's a fun tool and resource.
let's see, let's see where ittakes us.
Yeah.

Kristy (01:03:00):
very excited.
And we are all of your info downin the description.
So for our listeners, if youwanted to get a reading from TA,
check out our show notes.

Tam Tran (01:03:09):
awesome.
So this card deck is calledwork, your light by Rebecca
Campbell.
this is probably my second orthird deck that I picked up.
I gotta show you guys mycollections kind of crazy.
cause everyone has differentdecks at different points in
time.
There's a lot of amazingauthors, but something about her
deck that just really resonatesis the artwork so beautiful.
We gotta drop in the show notesfor those who are like, Hey, I

(01:03:30):
wanna check this out.
so who would like to go first?

Angie (01:03:34):
I'll go

Kristy (01:03:34):
can go first.
Ooh, Ooh.
I

Angie (01:03:38):
that.
Angie, can go first.
all right.
go

Tam Tran (01:03:45):
Okay, Angie.
Okay.

Angie (01:03:47):
There was a period of my life when I was like really lost
and I was like grieving.
I was like super into astrology,same thing, like using it, not
for, fortune telling, but forunderstanding who I am
understanding those around me.
So I'm like totally into it.

Tam Tran (01:04:02):
Yeah.
So this would be pretty similar,but just really using like the
card as a medium to help youunderstand yourself better.
So with that, let's speak in.
So just gimme a second.
I just wanna tune into theenergy and just, just drop into
that space.
By the way, this is a shit forsure.
I do not tell my parents.
I do.
and at work I'm starting to comeout and it's amazing thing, but,

(01:04:25):
I hope that this becomes anormalized tool that everyone
can use, Okay.
Angie, so, Ooh.
Okay.
So the card is called Irama andit, the phrase says, where are
you being called to journey to?
So I'll send you guys a photoafter it's this beautiful, like
person who's like in this bodyof water.

(01:04:47):
And like, you see this kind oflike castle feels.
Just it's so beautiful.
So I'd love to read it first andthen we'll talk a little bit
about it and unpack.
you could absolutely askquestions, like in terms of, you
know, before you pull a card,you could just pull, you know,
ask a question, but for metoday, I wanted to be a little
bit more organic and just seewhat comes up for the both of
us.
So just be in more of a state offlow.

(01:05:08):
All right.
So the Celtic word in Rammameans a journey of the soul, a
voyage on which we don't knowwhere we are going, but our
souls, our soul knows the way.
If you pull this card, you areeither either being called on a
soul journey or already on one.
It could be to a physicalancient place or metaphoric.

(01:05:30):
When we journey to places thatour soul remembers a shift takes
place, both within us and to theplanet as well.
You are being called to journeyto a place that is sacred to
your soul.
Perhaps it is to a journey tothe world's sacred sites.
Or you're being called to crossthe country climb a mountain,

(01:05:51):
lie on a desert floor or drinkfrom an ancient.
Well, there are places to see inold friends to meet.
I see spontaneous pilgrimages inyour future.
If a physical void is impossiblejourney through the portal of
your heart, follow the invisiblesoul trail and be willing to
explore, maybe read a book orwatch a movie about a sacred

(01:06:12):
time or place, or perhaps you'rebeing called to study an ancient
lineage or body of work,whatever your circumstances,
your soul is ready to journaldeep.
So this is the thing that like,they always provide like a
little thing to read or doafter.
So if you just wanna repeatafter me, Angie, and then you
can let me know what yourthoughts are, but it says may

(01:06:34):
seeds of light

Angie (01:06:35):
May seeds of light

Tam Tran (01:06:38):
long ago

Angie (01:06:39):
ago,

Tam Tran (01:06:41):
planted begin.

Angie (01:06:43):
planted begin

Tam Tran (01:06:45):
To rise

Angie (01:06:47):
to rise.

Tam Tran (01:06:49):
and then close your eye for this one.
Close your eyes for this one.
It says I am ready

Angie (01:06:54):
I am ready

Tam Tran (01:06:57):
to remember ancient secrets

Angie (01:07:00):
remember ancient secrets

Tam Tran (01:07:03):
from lands that my soul knows

Angie (01:07:06):
from lands that my soul knows

Tam Tran (01:07:09):
from times past

Angie (01:07:11):
from times past

Tam Tran (01:07:13):
may I be held

Angie (01:07:15):
may I be held

Tam Tran (01:07:17):
by the ancient lineages

Angie (01:07:20):
the ancient lineages

Tam Tran (01:07:23):
that my soul has severed.

Angie (01:07:25):
my soul has severed.

Tam Tran (01:07:27):
And remember that I don't have to do it all alone.

Angie (01:07:30):
And remember that I don't have to do it all alone.

Tam Tran (01:07:35):
And that's it.

Angie (01:07:37):
I have goosebumps.
Because I actually am on ajourney.
I've been, reading more into,Buddhism, like the Dharma of
Buddhism and, reading more intojust a lot of things like that.
And, so my grandma is aBuddhist.
She probably the only person inmy family that is religious in

(01:08:02):
that matter.
And her father.
So my great-grandfather wasactually a Taoist priest.
So there's a lot of, that typeof blood in me.
So

Tam Tran (01:08:14):
that's why I

Angie (01:08:14):
goosebumps.
When you were reading all aboutthis, like ancient lineages and
ancient texts.
And I was like, oh my God,that's exactly what I'm right
now.
And not like today, but likeit's what I've been working on
over.
I would say probably like thepast.
Two years or so, but it's caughtoff to a really slow start and

(01:08:35):
more recently, because the dustis kind of settling in the other
big parts of my life.
Like moving in with myboyfriend, getting a puppy, like
these things are starting toslow down.
Like it's being incorporatedinto my life.
The dust is settling.
So now I'm going back to thatjourney of like, what I was
doing before.
So this kind of is like,motivating me even more to kind

(01:08:59):
of, you know, do it like tocontinue doing it.

Tam Tran (01:09:03):
thank you for sharing.
totally

Kristy (01:09:06):
gave me goose

Tam Tran (01:09:08):
mm-hmm

Angie (01:09:09):
a goose of

Tam Tran (01:09:11):
and the thing is, the goosebumps, the sensations that
are happening is that your soulfeels recognized,

Angie (01:09:16):
mm-hmm

Tam Tran (01:09:18):
it's like, oh, you saw me.
Yeah, you, you were speaking mylanguage.
and you're saying the thingsthat it's like a moment of
validation for yourself.
yeah.
So wherever your journey is,your soul knows the way.
So just allow yourself to bewith that.

Kristy (01:09:35):
That's so lovely.
I had this whole imagery oflike, you know, your soul as
this, as this like ball ofyellow light.
And then it just like glowedbrighter when you had a and it
kind of like vibrated

Tam Tran (01:09:50):
mm-hmm

Kristy (01:09:51):
This is Kristy's interpretation of a soul

Angie (01:09:57):
okay.
Kristy, it's your turn.

Kristy (01:09:59):
Okay.

Tam Tran (01:09:59):
okay.
Okay.
I'm laughing because I just gotthis card.

Kristy (01:10:04):
Like for

Tam Tran (01:10:04):
yourself, Yeah.
It's called the it's so funny.
It's called the initiation.
it's called Rite of passagecrossing the threshold.
So you could see like thesereally dark mountains.
but inside of it, you're beinginitiated into such a beautiful
place, by the path to get thereis a little rough.
So, so let me read.
All right, so, all right.

(01:10:25):
So here we go.
Some of the most sacredinitiation, chambers and temples
look scary from the outside.
But our breathtakingly beautifulon the inside.
This represents the journey thatthe soul Pilgrim is required to
take, to reach summer sacred,but only the initiated can
enter.
And perhaps that's where you'reat right now.

(01:10:45):
You are being tested andinitiated because you're headed
summer sacred.
Secret require that we cross thethreshold from one world or
state of being to the next we'rebeing called to face.
What scares us and have to bewilling to lose it all in order
to gain a new way of being ofsafety, of security, of depth,

(01:11:10):
and of meaning initiations likerights of passage, mark the
shift from one age to the nextand can take place because of
emotional term oil, great loss,grief, or devastation that is
through the seemingly hardshipthat are.
Heart will crack open.
And our spirit is invested tostep forward.

(01:11:31):
We take the sacred voyage intomore of who we are and who we
came here to be.
It can be painful and scary, butonce we begin the journey, we
can be more ourselves than everbefore.
If you are in the middle of aninitiation right now, you will
get through it.
And one day soon you will blessthe thing that broke you down
and cracked you open because theworld needs you open.

(01:11:52):
You are going somewhere sacredand it will be worth it.
And guess what?
You're closer than you think.

Kristy (01:11:57):
So our listeners can't see me, but.
You know, a lot of times weassociate crying with like
something negative.

Tam Tran (01:12:07):
Yeah.

Kristy (01:12:09):
I don't, you know, I'm not feeling like sadness.
I just, I feel, I feel scaredbut excited at the same time.
And I think as you were readingand describing that the journey
is going to be hard and it'sgonna be painful, but there is,
there is like a blessing on theother side, you know, and that

(01:12:31):
journey is well worth taking.
And, and earlier on in the show,I had just, just described,
climbing up a hill to get placewhere we can feel better.

Tam Tran (01:12:43):
Mm-hmm this card

Kristy (01:12:43):
shows up, today, I think just listening to how it was
being described.
I felt very emotional.
And that's why, that's why thesetears showed up, you where I'm
at in life.
I think there are a lot ofunknowns coming up and I think
that that speaks to what thecard was saying.
I, I have a lot of unknowns inmy career.

(01:13:06):
Like where am I going?
what, what am I gonna choose todo?
I'm about to graduate from gradschool.

Tam Tran (01:13:12):
Mm-hmm

Kristy (01:13:13):
I'm having some unknowns in, in terms of my relationship
status and, and what's going onthere.
and, and I had some unknowns ofeven where I'll be living.
Like what city am I gonna beliving?
And what.
What is that going to look like?
My, just my whole livingsituation, what is that going to
look like?

(01:13:33):
So there's a lot of thingscoming up, and it is scary, but
also I'm, I am excited eventhough it's I know it's gonna be
a tough journey.
I, can't wait see what's instore, you know?

Tam Tran (01:13:48):
yeah, yeah.
Everything around you is that,that darkness, like in the
picture, but you know that whereyou're going is so much so
beautiful.
It's like this Oasis that's likewaiting for you.
But, you know, to get there,it's gonna be painful.
And it requires, if it's okay toshare like possibly shedding,

(01:14:09):
right.
Kristy just like a little bit ofthe shedding of what got you
here, where you're at now is notgonna get you to where you wanna
be.
And it's the unknown, that's thescariest, cuz you know, you're,
there is no rule book.
There's no rule book orplaybook.
That's been written to take youto where you wanna be.
So guess what?
You're lucky to write thatyourself.

Kristy (01:14:26):
Despite what our parents try to give us in of life.
These are all the check boxes.
You gotta do

Tam Tran (01:14:33):
exactly.
but then we

Kristy (01:14:34):
look at the book and we're like, I don't really like
it.
So what now?

Tam Tran (01:14:38):
Toss it and write another one.

Kristy (01:14:39):
Yeah, write your own, go where your soul is.
Vibrating the most.
thank you for that.
That was, that felt reallypowerful for me.

Tam Tran (01:14:46):
Oh, I'm so glad.

Angie (01:14:47):
while that was happening, at first I was like, okay, let's
see what it would be like, youknow, like I'm I was trying to
appeal to my skepticismskepticism as well.
Right.
Because like you said, this is amedium for kind of helping us
for our own thoughts.
So I was like, okay, let'spretend like I'm Kristy right
now.

(01:15:08):
And like what you had read didnothing for me, but it had
affected Kristy so much.
And then what you read for mewas so relatable for me that
it's like, it's very cool.

Kristy (01:15:19):
like

Tam Tran (01:15:20):
you know,

Angie (01:15:20):
I don't know why it works, but it does.
but doesn't matter, right?
Like some, for some things, youknow, the why, like going to
therapy, you know, why you feelthis way, you know why, but
sometimes that might not beenough because you need to know
how this one, we don't know why,but if it helps, then why would
we dismiss it?
Right.
Like, think that's, that'ssomething that.

(01:15:41):
A lot of people in the west havea hard time grasping

Tam Tran (01:15:47):
that they need

Angie (01:15:48):
both the why and the help, but sometimes one isn't
enough and sometimes one is justenough.

Tam Tran (01:15:54):
Exactly.
Oh, I love what you said.
So final thoughts on this topic.
I promise our parents society,the world, the logical side of
us wants to have reasoning andlike the ability to like connect
these dots.
Right.
But in the spiritual world, itreally doesn't matter.

(01:16:14):
It's about allowing andsurrendering truly right.
To, to just be in that state offlow.
And it's so hard, right?
Because our logical side's like,I need to know all this stuff
and I need to like have logicand reasoning to understand why
all this is happening.
and my daily life and I'm goingthrough an emotion or when stuff
is happening to me.
What if you were to take a stepback and allow what's meant to

(01:16:36):
happen to us, knowing that theuniverse is giving this to us
for a very re good reason.
And sometimes it's not aboutknowing the why or how or
whatever it is, but justsurrendering that it's happening
and just being present withthat.
And the reason why I say that isbecause a lot of people want
abundance, right?
It's like, I want all thesethings, but it's like, you have
to truly surrender sometimes towhat, where and what the

(01:16:59):
universe has in store for you tobe, to attract the abundance and
to be in that state of flow.
And the reason why the rereadings obviously are so polar
opposite and they're differentfor each person.
And obviously, you know, likeI'm not, I don't know you both
other than, you know, like ourtime through Instagram.
Right.
so obviously this is not like aplanned thing, right.
I just kind of randomly pickcards for you, but this is truly

(01:17:21):
what the universe wanted youguys to hear.
So just rendering to that andjust saying like, We are both,
we're all in the right place atthe right time.
And that's all that matters atthis point.

Angie (01:17:30):
Yep.
very well said.

Kristy (01:17:33):
I'm just breathing it all in.
And I think

Tam Tran (01:17:35):
that's a, like an

Kristy (01:17:36):
excellent way for us to wrap up our episode, tam, thank
you again for sharing yourwisdom, sharing your vulnerable
stories about your childhood andthe journey that you had taken
to become who you are today and,that with not just us, but also
our listeners as well.
Where can some of our listenersfind you if they relate it to

(01:17:59):
work, your stories, whatever todo some card readings
themselves.

Tam Tran (01:18:04):
There you go.
If you're in interested.
Yeah, you can find me onInstagram.
so at stigma free movement, ormy website, stigma free
movement.com.
You know, I'm excited and Iwanna do a special thing for
your audience listening.
You know, if you guys areresonate with anything that's
been said and shared and talkedabout today, I'm actually gonna
be leading breathwork, sessionswhere you can drop in and just

(01:18:26):
be with the body, with emotions,all of that.
I absolutely for free, so if youwanna join, join in on this you
know, have a different tools, touse to kind of manage your
stress anxiety or your emotions,you know, I'm here for it.
So as where you can find me and,thank you so much, Angie and
Christie, not only just for, youknow, starting and falling your

(01:18:47):
gut to, to create this safespace for, for people like me to
speak up and share.
but also just being vulnerableto show the world that it's okay
to have.
All the emotions and know thatthey're not who you are, but
we're just in this.
Right.
and just so thank you so muchfor being vulnerable, cuz I
don't know if I would be asvulnerable if you did not create

(01:19:10):
that space for me.
I almost feel like it'scathartic and liberating to
share it.
Cuz I, I, that wasn't theintention going into this at
all.
It was like, let's just go withwherever it, it needs to go.
and I, I don't know if I've everpublicly spoke about my Bo up up
about my bullying.
I kind of share a little bit,but I never go deep.
Cause I also don't want theperson who had did it to me

(01:19:30):
just.
Feel shame and guilt or whateverit was, cuz they probably didn't
know what they were doing.
So yeah.
So thank you

Angie (01:19:39):
and thank you so you for coming on the show.

Tam Tran (01:20:11):
How was a card reading what'd you guys think?
that was

Angie (01:20:14):
really literally on Amazon right now.
I just added it to

Tam Tran (01:20:17):
my

Kristy (01:20:18):
oh my God.

Angie (01:20:20):
like literally it's in my cart right now, along with, 100
pack of garbage regs.

Kristy (01:20:27):
All the necessities that those

Tam Tran (01:20:30):
there you go.
Oh, that's so funny.

Kristy (01:20:32):
should I go on Amazon now, too?

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