February 13, 2025 • 40 mins
Today, Bethany shares her journey through the challenges of motherhood, personal healing, and faith, providing insights into the complexities of life as a single mom. Through her story of resilience and honesty, she inspires us to embrace struggles and seek comfort and growth in our faith journey.
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Episode Transcript
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Bethany Franzen (00:00):
How do you start your morning?
Not that early.
You should try it.
Well, I go to bed with my kidstoo now, so I don't have much of
a life.
I wake up at four and then I goto bed around 7.30 or 8.30.
Piet Van Waarde (00:13):
Yeah, see, I feel like I'm doing really well
if I go to bed at 10.
Bethany Franzen (00:17):
That's what I used to think, but now I'm just
like there's no, I will get sickif I go to bed at that time and
wake up at four.
Piet Van Waarde (00:23):
So I just don't hang out with anyone.
Bethany Franzen (00:25):
Don't really see anyone.
I just go to the gym, hang outwith the kids and go to bed.
Piet Van Waarde (00:29):
Well, thank you for fitting me into your
schedule.
Bethany Franzen (00:32):
No, this is fun .
This is my fun hangout.
Piet Van Waarde (00:54):
Yeah, it's nice .
Thank you for joining us hereat Sidewalk Conversations.
I am very excited about ourguest today, although she, like
many young people, tends to be alittle reluctant about being on
the air, but she graciouslydecided to join me.
So in a moment I'm going tointroduce you to my friend
Bethany.
She has been actually followed.
She's following up with theother siblings who've been on
this podcast, so her brother andher sister have been here, and
(01:18):
so finally I was able to twistBethany's arm and she can join
us too.
So excited about having her.
But before we jump into theinterview, I just want to give a
shout out to my sponsor thisweek, so the Van Ward Foundation
, which is the foundation thatactually sponsors much of the
work that we do not only thispodcast, but newsletters, other
(01:38):
film projects and a new cancerpastor platform.
So a shout out to thesupporters and the sponsors of
Van Ward Foundation, and if youwant more information about that
, we'll put the link in thenotes below.
But thank you for all of thosewho are generous donors of the
foundation.
You make this possible.
(01:59):
All right, bethany, thank youfor being with us today.
I'm so glad you made some timefor us.
Bethany Franzen (02:07):
Of course, thanks for having me.
Piet Van Waarde (02:08):
She is a busy mom of two young kids.
How old are they?
Bethany Franzen (02:12):
Eden is three.
Well, she'll be three inFebruary, and then Ezra is four.
Piet Van Waarde (02:17):
All right, yeah , so yeah, you're a busy mom.
Bethany Franzen (02:19):
Very busy.
Piet Van Waarde (02:21):
Single mom too, which we'll get into in a bit.
Yes, All right, well, let'sstart way back at the beginning.
I often like to ask my guestskind of how they grew up and
some of their influences, andyou had a particularly
interesting growing up yearsbecause you did that
international.
Yes, your dad and mom weremissionaries and so you've kind
(02:42):
of been in various places aroundthe globe.
Tell us about what that waslike.
Bethany Franzen (02:49):
What was it like I was thinking about when
you sent me the question?
So think about it.
It's hard to describe it.
I would say honestly, lookingback, it was just fun.
I really enjoyed all the newexperiences, all the people, I
(03:10):
think it.
We never knew when we weregoing to move or where we were
going to move, so there was alot of mystery.
So I think at a young age I gotused to the idea that, like I
don't know the future and Ican't control it, which there
were highs from that and somelow lows from that.
But I don't, it was just.
It was wonderful, I loved it.
Piet Van Waarde (03:31):
So tell me some of the places you lived.
Bethany Franzen (03:33):
We lived.
I was born in Thailand and butthey were living in Mongolia at
the time.
So I lived in Mongolia and thenwe lived in the Himalayas, in
Darjeeling it's a little town inthe Himalayas near Nepal.
And then I lived in Bangalore,india, which is like a city
crazy so fun, very chaotic, butjust full of life.
(03:59):
And then Thailand, and thenafter then, I graduated high
school from there, and then,from there, I like, moved a
bunch of other places.
Okay, and then when did I?
Graduated high school fromthere, and then from there, I
like, moved a bunch of otherplaces.
Piet Van Waarde (04:07):
Okay, and then, when did you end up in the
States?
Bethany Franzen (04:09):
So I ended up in the States when I was 18.
For like a year or a little bitI came back to the States and
then kind of went all over, andthen now we're back in Texas.
Piet Van Waarde (04:23):
Well, welcome back to Texas.
Bethany Franzen (04:24):
Thanks.
Piet Van Waarde (04:26):
You also had, if I remember the story correct,
you had a pretty dramatichealing early in life.
Bethany Franzen (04:33):
Yes, I forget about that.
I did, I did.
Piet Van Waarde (04:36):
I hope you forget about that.
Bethany Franzen (04:37):
Well, it's just , I was so young and when I was
I was born healthy.
And then, when I was 18 monthsold, my parents noticed that I
had my legs.
There were no muscle and likeno really bone structure, it was
just very flubby.
And they realized that, um,they took me to the doctor and
(04:58):
he said I had something calledspina bifida, which there are
different levels of it, but Ihad the most severe one, which
meant I'd be paralyzed for therest of my life.
Because I don't know I feellike people are going to correct
me, but I don't know the exactscientific thing, but I think
there's a hole somewhere in yourspine so it causes all these
issues.
So the doctor said I was goingto be in a wheelchair for the
(05:19):
rest of my life and potentiallyhave some like mental, like
problems and just like be behind.
And then do you want me toexplain what happened, or?
Piet Van Waarde (05:34):
just yeah, go ahead.
Okay, we're all curious.
Bethany Franzen (05:38):
And then so obviously my parents were
devastated.
We were in, they were inMongolia, so they got their
church together and theirfriends, the local people there
that loved God, and they prayedand fasted for three days.
And my dad had this memory ofthis time when I was younger,
when my mom was well, when mymom was pregnant with me, and he
(05:59):
felt like this place we werestaying at, like that a curse
had come on me Because they hadhad a bunch of stuff happen with
Hannah and Josh and they prayedover them but not me because I
was in my mom's womb.
So he broke it off and then thenext day I started to crawl and
the day after that, walk andthen run and climb.
So it was like that it was veryfast.
(06:21):
Yeah, it was crazy, and my dadwould always say like it broke
his heart because I was so happyand so engaging, but I'd just
sit there and do nothing Like Iwouldn't try.
Piet Van Waarde (06:33):
You know, and yeah, and I guess and you have
had no other symptoms ever since.
Bethany Franzen (06:37):
So I do One of the remaining things and my dad
says it's like proof of what Goddid is my teeth?
They're horrible.
And my dad says it's like proofof what God did is my teeth?
They're horrible.
These are veneers.
They're fake because they havethese lines across from them to
show like there was trauma orillness in my body.
And then I had something calledaudio processing, which I think
(06:58):
was a result of that.
For me, it looked like for somereason I couldn't hear.
I had a really difficult timewith like spelling and reading
because I couldn't hear.
Sound like I didn't understand.
I don't fully understand whatwas wrong I just couldn't get it
so I struggled a bit in schoolfor a while, but that was the
(07:19):
that's the extent.
Piet Van Waarde (07:19):
I guess that was yeah, wow, and what a story.
Bethany Franzen (07:23):
Yes, I'm so thankful that I can move.
It's a huge gift.
Piet Van Waarde (07:29):
So I would imagine that that had a pretty
profound effect on your faithdevelopment.
I mean, obviously your parentsare missionaries but then you
experienced this miraculousmiracle which I'm sure you heard
the stories about when you gotolder.
Did that have a positive neteffect on how your faith
(07:50):
developed, or what influence didthat experience have on your
faith?
Bethany Franzen (07:55):
That's a good question.
Honestly, I haven't thoughtabout that, but I would say I
was privileged enough to grow upin a family and in an
environment where I often sawmiraculous things happen or
often heard about them.
So I think because I wasblessed with that, it was like
okay, this happens.
You know that's God, and I'msure it influenced me, but just
(08:19):
from a young age I always I justknew God was there, I knew he
was present.
So I don't know if itnecessarily shifted the way I
viewed him or like played a partin me being like, okay, because
I was healed, I know he's real.
It's definitely helped me, like.
If people have been arguingwith me about the realness of
God, I'm like, okay, that's youropinion.
Piet Van Waarde (08:40):
But I have something like that I have no
reason to doubt.
Bethany Franzen (08:45):
Like it's crazy you know, so I would say I
don't know if it fullyinfluenced like my relationship
with God, but it is definitelysomething I'm so thankful for,
For sure.
Piet Van Waarde (08:58):
And did you have a time where you kind of
walked away from the Lord, whereyou kind of said, well, I want
to kind of do my own thing, orhas it always been kind of
straight and narrow?
Bethany Franzen (09:09):
I've always loved God, but I have not always
understood how much he loves me, and I think because of that
Say that again, because I thinkthat's so important.
Okay, I've always loved God, butI haven't always understood how
much he loves me and from thatlike wrong belief of who I am
and what he thinks of me, I'vedefinitely—it's hard.
(09:32):
I never was like God's not real.
I don't want anything to dowith this.
I'm going to do what I want todo.
It was more—and I've alwaysbeen very—I'm a big thinker like
like, very introspective andvery self-aware, like my
weakness would be to be likereally, I beat myself up a lot,
so I was always aware of what Iwas doing and why I was doing it
(09:55):
, but I would say when I waslike between, I think, after
high school to before, likeright before I got pregnant with
my son, I definitely wentthrough a period of just not, I
was deconstly.
(10:15):
My parents didn't put this onus, but I put on myself like, oh
, like my parents are well-knownin the church and I need to
look a certain way and I need todo these things, because this
is what you should do.
Piet Van Waarde (10:36):
And.
Bethany Franzen (10:36):
I didn't understand why I was doing it,
you know.
Piet Van Waarde (10:38):
So like.
Bethany Franzen (10:40):
I mean to get really personal.
Like, for example, a well-knownthing in the church, right,
it's a hot topic.
But like premarital sex, right,we say we don't sleep around
before.
Like you're married, and mywhole life I'd been like, yeah,
we don't do that.
And then I think things likethat started getting challenged
once I was on my own and I waslike but why?
(11:00):
I don't understand, you know.
So I never walked away from God, I think.
Once I was on my own and Ididn't have my parents telling
me God loves you, this is whatwe do, this is what we don't do.
Not that they were likehelicoptering, but in general, I
had very constant influences inmy life.
(11:21):
I definitely went through aperiod of just saying like, God,
I don't, I don't.
I know you're here, but I don'tknow where you are and I don't
know why I do what I do and Ineed to like I want to make
choices because I know I'm loved.
I don't want to make choices,so I'm loved.
Does that make sense?
Piet Van Waarde (11:36):
Absolutely.
Bethany Franzen (11:37):
So I definitely wrestled with that and I think
during that time I, like I, Iwould say I would say an
outsider looking in their quick,the statement would be oh, she
walked away from God, but itreally that would be too
simplistic.
Yeah, I was like talking,spending time with God every day
.
It was like I I was justwrestling with just there was
(12:03):
also it's like hard to explainbecause there was a lot of pain
that I was working through fromjust before that.
I think it just all came tohead, you know, during that time
.
Well, I think one of the things.
Piet Van Waarde (12:15):
If I may, I think that one of the things
that always encourages me whenpeople are quote unquote
wrestling with their faith, itmeans they're taking it
seriously.
It's like it's not justsomething they put on and like
well, this is what I'm supposedto do, because I'm in a
Christian family, or whatever.
When you're wrestling with yourfaith, it means that you've
like, you're thinking about it,that you're like do I want to
(12:37):
adopt this particular idea or doI want to follow this
particular principle or truthand you know you can say no, but
I think, knowing a little bitabout you, that after wrestling
through it, you're like you knowwhat, okay, I see some of the
wisdom of that.
I'm going to try and align mylife with it.
Or I've made some mistakes andnow I realize why that might be
(12:57):
something I would want to payattention to in the future.
I think both for sure, whichleads me into you, me into a
more uncomfortable part of yourlife.
So I had the privilege of doingyour wedding, yes, and it was a
wonderful, wonderful experience.
You had gotten pregnant, butyou wanted to.
(13:19):
Now.
Okay, now that we're here, Iwant to commit my life to this
guy and he to you and for awhile that seemed to work and
then after a while it didn't.
And I don't want you to feelpressured to talk about anything
you'd feel uncomfortabletalking about.
But as you look at thatexperience now in retrospect,
(13:41):
what are some of the things thatyou think might have
contributed to it not beingeverything you hoped it would be
?
Bethany Franzen (13:50):
Ooh, um, I that's like that's hard to
answer Cause there's so many.
Piet Van Waarde (13:59):
Yes.
Um and, like I said there's,there's a very personal side.
You don't want to have tonecessarily talk about.
Bethany Franzen (14:05):
Oh no, that's okay, I'm trying to put all my
thoughts together.
What didn't I think so, duringthat period of, like wrestling
with God, is what I think youknow, and asking him questions
and trying to, I think, for thefirst time, be honest.
You know, and asking themquestions and trying to, I think
, for the first time, be honest,in that place I felt really
(14:27):
vulnerable and I didn't know whoI was, and so I think I I did,
I sought it in my ability tolove and at that time it was my
ability to love my um, my kid'sdad and I think what I didn't.
(14:49):
I looked past things that then,like I, because of what I
thought love was in relationship, and like, oh, I'm a Christian,
I mean, one of the biggestthings.
Wait, let me just preface this.
We both believe differentthings.
I believed in God and he didnot.
That was a big that.
Just there's a reason in theBible.
It says you shouldn't, you know.
(15:10):
Be unequally yoked yeahunequally yoked because it just
when, like, the core of mymorals and the choices that I
make are God and the Bible, andso if two people don't have very
different cores like thatdictate what they do, it's just
not going to work out you know,and so that was.
Piet Van Waarde (15:32):
If I just interject, I just want to put
like a exclamation point on that, because I think you know there
are so many things that whenyou feel an emotional attraction
to somebody and you feel lovefrom them and you get a chance
to love them and it works and itfeels good, that can be so
deceptive as a long-termstrategy for the relationship.
(15:55):
It's great as a hey, there'ssomething interesting here for
the relationship.
It's great as a hey, there'ssomething interesting here.
But unless you share that moralfoundation where the thing that
you're drawing your decisionsfrom as principles or practices,
if it isn't similar, you knowit's just you're going to be at
(16:15):
odds all the time about likewhat's right and what's good and
what's acceptable and what'snot, and so yeah, absolutely.
Bethany Franzen (16:22):
Yeah, everything gets like.
You're never able to reallycome to a conclusion with any
argument or conversation becauseyou're coming from such
different places like long-term,you know.
Right.
So I would say that was one ofthe biggest you know things, and
I think in this process as I'vegrown and gotten older, I
(16:44):
wasn't.
I think I had amisunderstanding of what grace
and forgiveness was, and therewere just times, I think, in our
dating relationship that I meanaside from, you know, the bl
blaring, we had different values.
But I extended grace and I waslike, oh, I should forgive, this
(17:05):
is what love would do, whenreally it was like no, actually
love doesn't enable wrong.
That's not love, you know.
Piet Van Waarde (17:12):
And so I think I was more.
Bethany Franzen (17:14):
I was enabling out of a place of fear, because
I didn't want to be alone, andso I would say that was one of
the things I mean, and then wehad.
Now, in hindsight, the reason Ithink you should wait to have
sex till marriage now is becauseit does put like we had sex.
(17:35):
Obviously I was pregnant beforewe got married.
It like the hormones from it.
It just fogs your view.
It does I.
I call them glasses.
You get these glasses on whereyou just can't like when there
are hard things, you're notaddressing it with the same
clarity of mind as you would ifthere weren't, like those
(17:55):
hormones raging through yourbody and like yeah.
So I think those were three ofthe main things that definitely
did not set us up for success.
Piet Van Waarde (18:10):
I often talk to people about, carol and I did
premarital counseling for 30some odd years.
I mean, we did it for a longtime and we encourage people to
be abstinent for the exact oneof the reasons was exactly what
you just said and you make.
It makes sense when you reallystep back and think about it.
God wanted to create this thingthat couples could share.
(18:32):
That would be so powerful andso intimate and so beautiful
that it would help in keeping acouple together.
So it has this bonding twobecome one flesh.
I mean, I think there's a real.
It's more than symbolic.
I think that's really somethingmysterious and true.
And if you bond before you'reready to make the commitment to
(18:55):
be bonded, you might assume,because of all the things that
you feel in that environment,that, wow, this is really good,
because the sex is great and itis exactly like you said.
It creates this sense of you'rebeing closer to each other than
(19:15):
you really really are and youget deceived by it and so, yeah,
it's a hard lesson.
Bethany Franzen (19:21):
It is, and like there's no, I want to clear up
there's no condemnation for mefor anyone who like.
I just know I can only speakfrom personal experience, and I
think too, because of the natureof our story and the way things
went down, if I had said, if Ihad been more firm with myself
and said that wasn't a line Iwas going to cross, we actually
(19:42):
I think things would have maybecome to the light sooner and we
probably wouldn't have ended upmarried, I think, because I
don't know.
You can always go back in time,but you know, I just it's hard.
But yeah, those were the things.
Piet Van Waarde (19:56):
I think that and you have these two beautiful
kids, but then God, you knowGod always has it and he comes
in and and Ezra I mean.
Bethany Franzen (20:08):
So the beauty of this whole story is when,
when I met my kid's dad, I wasin a really, really rough space,
like really struggling with aton of depression.
I had struggled with suicidalideation from a really young age
because of some stuff thathappened and just like like
everything, like eatingdisorders, self-harm, like every
(20:30):
everything and just, and I Ijust didn't understand why, like
my siblings were always sodriven and like they like seemed
to love life and I juststruggled mentally so much with
life and and then it got reallybad.
I also wasn't helping myself bydrinking and um during that
(20:52):
time period, but I like knew itwas like six months of like I
never went through a party phaseor anything in high school, but
there were like six monthswhile dating that I drank a lot
and I knew exactly why I wasdrinking.
I was like I am depressed andI'm drinking, so I don't feel it
.
I knew it, so it wasn't likethere wasn't even a fun in it.
Piet Van Waarde (21:09):
You know, it was just sad but I, anyway, I
just it.
Bethany Franzen (21:16):
actually my kid's dad actually sat me down
and talked to me and he was likeI care about you, but I'm
worried.
I can't spend the rest of mylife worried that something's
going to happen to you becauseyou're not taking care of
yourself.
And I really think that was Godspeaking to me in that moment,
because for me it was like awake-up call, like, okay,
bethany, take ownership.
Great, you're not feeling good.
You've struggled with thesefeelings your whole life you've
(21:39):
struggled with.
One of the biggest things Ialways struggled with was like I
know god's real, but I don'tfeel it in my heart like god, if
you're so good and you're soreal, why do?
Why do I want to die like?
Why does life feel so dark?
Why does it feel like I'mwalking in a cloud?
You know and like I know allthe scriptures to quote.
I know all the prayers to pray,I've read every devotional out
there, like I've heard all thesermons, but I was still
(22:03):
wrestling and hurting and anyway.
So when he sat me down and saidthat, yes, interject.
Piet Van Waarde (22:14):
We are on holy ground here.
Thank, thank you for being sohonest.
Bethany Franzen (22:19):
Of course, and vulnerable.
Yeah, it's my pleasure.
Piet Van Waarde (22:24):
Thanks for providing the space.
Bethany Franzen (22:27):
Well, actually that was one of the promises to
myself, because I used to bevery hidden, I wouldn't tell
people what was going on, and Ithink that drove the depression
deeper.
I think the enemy loveshiddenness drove the depression
deeper.
I think the enemy loveshiddenness.
And so I remember in highschool actually, I told god.
I was like, if, like, just helpme, not lie anymore, because
people would ask me, how are younot saying it was good and it
(22:47):
would just make it so much worseright and um, so anyway, me
being honest is a testament towhat god's done, because I used
to be terrified of sharing whatwas actually going on and what I
was actually struggling with.
You know, because there's.
I mean, yeah, just talkingabout like eating disorders and
self-harm and suicide anddepression.
(23:09):
Now it's more, you know,accepted.
But at least at that time Ididn't think as like a
missionary kid, that's okay.
You can't love God and struggle, you know, so anyway.
So what was I saying?
Piet Van Waarde (23:20):
So, what turned the corner, and I'm guessing
that we all have.
You know Paul talks about it asa besetting sin that we have
those things that tend to becomeweaknesses or vulnerabilities
that we wrestle with for therest of our lives wrestle with
(23:43):
for the rest of our lives.
But we do also, as we grow andlearn, are able to navigate the
challenge with a bit morematurity and grace.
And so I'm curious because youknow you seem to be doing really
well, and I know from otherconversations that it's not just
a show you really are doingpretty good, despite challenges
of being a single mom.
Bethany Franzen (23:59):
I'm laughing because this weekend I was
actually in the fetal positioncrying about this whole
situation.
So I am doing good, but thereare rough moments, for sure,
totally so what do?
Piet Van Waarde (24:11):
you attribute some of the, because I'm
guessing that, as people listento you, there are going to be so
many people who say I have feltthat, because I'm guessing that
, as people listen to you, thereare going to be so many people
who say I have felt that I'mthere, I don't know what to do.
I believe in God.
I've read all the stuff but Istill struggle in these ways.
What advice, what encouragementwould you give for somebody
(24:37):
who's like in that place, kindof reflecting on your own story?
Bethany Franzen (24:43):
Like in the place of questioning.
Piet Van Waarde (24:45):
Yeah, and just feeling like how am I going to
keep on going forward when Ifeel like all this stuff is and
nothing I've tried has workedthus far?
Bethany Franzen (24:54):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Are?
Yeah?
Um, that's a great question.
I would say one of the biggestthings is to what I call truth
tell, just be honest, tell godwhat you feel.
And I mean like, like, becauseI think most, most of the things
that we struggle with arerooted in a lie about god,
(25:15):
ourself and others, and I'dwrote it down in my journal.
But one of the things that I'velearned what confession and
repentance really is is.
Confession is telling God thetruth and admitting the lie.
And repentance to me, this isreceiving the truth from him
(25:36):
right.
To me, it was always like I'msorry, god.
So I was stuck in this sentencelike I'm sorry, I'm depressed
today, I'm sorry, I want to dietoday, I'm sorry I had sex again
today or whatever it was.
But then the past couple ofyears, god's just been like he's
a loving father and he's notlooking at us, waiting for us to
(26:00):
apologize for things he alreadyknows we're wrestling with, and
like I really believe everybehavior is rooted in able, like
a lie, right, every behaviorthat hurts us essentially.
So I would say just be honest,like, if you're angry at God,
god, I'm angry at you.
(26:21):
I don't believe that you canactually intervene in this
situation.
I mean, there have been so manymornings I have spent just
crying and, like you say you'refaithful, you say you're good.
Why is this situation notchanging?
Why is it getting worse?
Why are my worst fearshappening when I've tried to
honor you and I've tried likejust and what I'm saying might
not be correct, right orbiblically correct or any of
(26:43):
that, but it's just the truth ofwhat I'm feeling, because until
I admit the truth, I'm notgoing to be able of like what I
think, I'm not going to be ableto exchange it for what he has
to say.
So then I would say, afterbeing honest with God, he's not
trying to do behavioralmodification, he wants real
(27:04):
people.
Right After being honest, justsay God, what do you want me to
know about this and what do youwant me to do and what do you
want me to receive?
More often than not, for methat has just been him like hey,
today's enough, and I'm hereright now and like just
receiving his, like joy or hispeace.
And there is no way I wouldhave gotten through the past
(27:28):
couple of years without thesupernatural grace of God and
being honest, because otherwiseit's all about me and like my
ability to perform, and there'sno way I could have dealt with
heartbreak and raising my kidsall at the same time, and like
all the challenges that comewith that you know Sure.
So that's a bit all over theplace.
No, it's beautiful To put it insteps which I don't like steps,
(27:52):
but are just like tell thetruth, be honest and have a
conversation with God.
That's a huge thing, I think alot of times we come at him like
we're just begging him forthings.
He's a dad that loves us.
And he already knows what weneed before we ask for it, right
?
Piet Van Waarde (28:10):
Yeah.
Bethany Franzen (28:11):
So it's just like and I think it's just
changing the way that we viewGod, because so often I think
Christians we come at it as likepeople might disagree with this
, but like we're paying penancefor our sins constantly.
And it's not this like open,like you're already loved, you
messed up, great, you're alreadyloved, come here.
And so we withdraw ourselvesfrom him.
(28:31):
Does that make sense?
Piet Van Waarde (28:32):
For sure.
Bethany Franzen (28:34):
When he didn't step away, and then that's when
hiddenness comes in.
Yeah, and then performance andlike, okay, how can I be a good
person today?
Piet Van Waarde (28:42):
And then you feel so disingenuous because
you're not authentic.
Yes, you feel fake and you'replaying the game, yeah.
Bethany Franzen (28:47):
And then, oh, it must be God.
God's not real, you know, yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (28:51):
So I think, yeah, I don't know if that makes
sense.
Totally made sense.
It was beautiful actually.
So thank you.
So one of the things I've beenlearning about.
So I've been in this cancerjourney, as you know, and at
(29:14):
first you're just totally takenaback by the things you're
feeling and things you have todo and the things that have
changed about your life, butthen along the way you begin to
realize that it's not just bad Ikeep coming back to the
scripture what the enemy ismeant for evil, god can turn to
good and he redeems it all.
So as you look at your scenario, do you begin to have a sense
(29:37):
of how God's redeeming this?
Bethany Franzen (29:42):
Maybe not the specific oh God, that's so hard
to answer Because there's, likeyou know, the negative side of
my brain that's like, no, it'shonest.
Yeah, the reality.
But then there's the reality.
So I would say, okay,personally, in me, this
situation what I was going tosay previously and I got
(30:04):
sidetracked was my kids that hadthat conversation with me.
Then I started to like, okay, Ineed say the biggest wake-up
call for me and really pushed meforward into becoming healthy
and really like, okay, what do Istand for?
What do I believe?
Right, so that was already theredemption of God.
(30:26):
He took two messy, hurtingpeople and he's like I'm going
to give you a gift.
Ezra has been the greatest giftin my life and I would say,
looking at all of this, theredemption in it, it's still in
process.
One of my favorite quotes,actually by Lisa Turkis Turkis,
I can't say her name, but iseverything God touches is
(30:47):
eventually redeemed.
With God, there's always ameanwhile.
So for me, I think I've seenthe way, at least personally,
god's taken some of the worst.
I mean it was like betrayal wasone of my greatest fears in
life, like it's abandonmentright, and I have parents who
(31:14):
were married for 30 years.
Like, marriage was something Idreamed about as a little girl
and for me it was forever.
And so when I was faced with asituation where I was like you
want it to be forever, but youcan't force marriage right, you
can't force someone to stay.
And so then I had to makechoices that were really
difficult and went againsteverything I ever dreamed of or
(31:36):
wanted, that were reallydifficult and went against
everything I ever dreamed of orwanted.
But I saw the redemption.
I have seen and continue to seethe redemption of God, by the
way, that he has somehow managedto heal me from, like, for an
example, an eating disorder.
Like, somehow in at one pointin this, like in the process,
process of the marriage ending,I had to leave and I had Ezra
(32:01):
and a newborn, so I had all theraging hormones and I had an
eating disorder because therewas so much stress.
It was the way I was coping.
It's not an excuse, it's justthe truth and somehow in the
midst of it, god healed me.
He filled me with this power tobe like what do I want to set
(32:21):
my kids up for?
Like I'm making choices to setthem up and the next generation.
So like, what do I want to dotoday to help me?
And in situations that I feellike should have broken me, and
like, totally I feel likeyounger bet Bethany would have
numbed out, I've seen the handof God just like guide me and it
(32:43):
didn't take the pain away andit didn't change the situation,
like my marriage is over right.
I begged for it not to happen,I begged for change, but I've
seen him.
I don't know how to put it intowords.
The redemption of God in thisand it's continuing to happen
(33:05):
and I believe the story willcontinue to unfold is I've
learned that your greatest fearsand your greatest pain aren't
the end of your story and I'vecontinually seen how God will
step in and does step in and isvery present in pain In this
world.
You're going to have trouble.
Everybody, whether you believein God or not, there's pain and
(33:28):
unfortunately, people hurt,people make really hurtful
choices, and so I wish my storywas oh, the redemption is my
marriage is saved, everything'sperfect, and that's not it.
But I would say now I have somany tools to be able to like
(33:49):
face life and face hardship inmy kids' life and like another
example I've seen, theredemption of God is a
situation's brought my wholefamily together.
So my parents are here with us,which is such a gift, and my
brother and, like my kids, arebeing influenced by them when
they probably wouldn't have been, you know, and it's because
they were overseas.
Piet Van Waarde (34:08):
They were overseas.
Bethany Franzen (34:10):
And I mean I've seen I didn't know where I was
going to live.
I moved nine times and thehouses were provided every time
by my parents and people'sgenerosity, but it was 100% God
as well, and I think it's justsolidified in me God's faithful
(34:32):
and he's there.
And just because there's paindoes not mean it's the absence
of God, like if God is anywhere,it's in pain, he parachutes
into our pain.
Does that make sense?
Piet Van Waarde (34:44):
For sure, and I think it's such a beautiful
truth and you know the idea thatboth things can exist at once,
that you can be in deep sorrowand pain and God is also right
there with it, and one wouldsuggest or suspect let's say
(35:06):
that if God's there then it'snot going to be painful or it's
not going to be hard, but thosethings are kind of together.
God walks with us in the hard,because the world is broken and
we make bad choices and all therest.
But yes, I totally get that andI think when people can embrace
(35:27):
that in the midst of the hard,that is their salvation right,
that God will walk with them inthe pain and ends up using it to
redeem things in us and thenactually our story becomes a
redemptive story for others.
So, yeah, totally, totally getit and see it.
Bethany Franzen (35:46):
Can I add one more thing Please do?
The biggest redemption is 100%.
My kids, though.
They have like I feel, like Iobviously I wasn't being the
wisest when I got pregnant withmy son, or even my daughter.
Well, we, I, we wanted themclose together, but like it
probably wasn't the like wisesttime to have a second kid with
all that was going on.
But they have.
(36:10):
The way that God has shown melike the beauty of his nature
through them is just crazy.
They have have been such it'snot their job to heal me at all,
but just by being kids andbeing so, just incredible, like
it's been so healing for me.
You know, and so I think that'sone of like that is a ezra
(36:32):
especially is a constantreminder to me of like god
really does follow through onthe promise that he will take
the bad and make good, like evenour irresponsible choices.
If we allow him to step in, heoften I mean he will make it
beautiful and I promise, ifanyone meets my kids like
(36:53):
they're just beautiful, likeinside and out, but there's just
I really see the heart of Godin them.
you know, and I don't know ifanyone's going to make you want
to grow up, it's kids, they'rejust so amazing?
Yeah, I don't know, they are.
Piet Van Waarde (37:09):
And I can attest I know it's not just a
prejudicial mom saying this,that's true.
Bethany Franzen (37:12):
I'm very biased .
Piet Van Waarde (37:15):
All right, I want to talk about one thing and
I and I, then we'll close it up.
But I didn't prepare you forthis question, but as you've
been sharing, I thought oh.
I want to.
I want to address that.
So you're also an artist, right?
So you do art and it's reallyreally good.
And I'm curious do you feellike part of how you process
(37:40):
yourself and your pain isthrough your art?
Do you see it that way?
Or what's the inspirationbehind your art?
Bethany Franzen (37:48):
Are you speaking of, like singing or
painting?
Painting, okay, so my artisticside definitely died in, like
I've let it die in the pastcouple of years because of all
the craziness of everything.
It's an excuse, but it's alsothe truth, like I think that's
one side.
Actually, this year I felt likeGod challenging me to bring
(38:10):
back to life, to like expresswhat I like what you said,
express what I've experiencedand what I've learned, what you
said, express what I'veexperienced and what I've
learned.
I would say the biggest way,one of the biggest ways I
expressed my pain in the processwas through singing, because
singing is one of the ways Iexpress the artistic side of me
(38:30):
and at my church I helpoccasionally lead worship.
And I would say those momentsare like the moments where I'm
like okay, god, life is messybut I surrender, this is about
you, and those are like I feellike I encounter him so sweetly
in those moments because it'snot about me, it's not about the
situation, it's just thegoodness of God.
And then when I was painting inthe past, when I was dealing
(38:53):
with the depression and stuff,it was a way for me like there
would always be somehow my, my,my paintings were all very
colorful and bright and I feellike they expressed my desire of
what I knew was there, but justmy like, whatever was going on
chemically inside of me, youknow, and everything else just
(39:14):
wasn't adding up.
So, yes, I think my art is away I express who I am.
Like all my tattoos tell astory.
I'm very intentional about theway I express myself, or I try
to be, but I would say I'veallowed.
Piet Van Waarde (39:32):
That's an area where I just kind of Well, bring
it back out, girl, it's so good.
Bethany Franzen (39:38):
I want it to come back out.
I do because I want my kids tobe expressive and artistic and
creative.
Piet Van Waarde (39:45):
Yeah, well, this has been an absolutely
amazing conversation.
Thank you for all that you said, and I think not only have I
been enriched by it, but I thinkeverybody who listens to this
will be helped and blessedreally honestly.
So thank you, and thank you forjoining us.
We will be back again foranother episode of Sidewalk
(40:07):
Conversations.
Thanks for being here.
How do you start your morning?
Not that early.
You should try it.
Well, I go to bed with my kidstoo now, so I don't have much of
a life.
I wake up at four and then I goto bed around 7.30 or 8.30.
Piet Van Waarde (00:13):
Yeah, see, I feel like I'm doing really well
if I go to bed at 10.
Bethany Franzen (00:17):
That's what I used to think, but now I'm just
like there's no, I will get sickif I go to bed at that time and
wake up at four.
Piet Van Waarde (00:23):
So I just don't hang out with anyone.
Bethany Franzen (00:25):
Don't really see anyone.
I just go to the gym, hang outwith the kids and go to bed.
Piet Van Waarde (00:29):
Well, thank you for fitting me into your
schedule.
Bethany Franzen (00:32):
No, this is fun .
This is my fun hangout.
Piet Van Waarde (00:54):
Yeah, it's nice .
Thank you for joining us hereat Sidewalk Conversations.
I am very excited about ourguest today, although she, like
many young people, tends to be alittle reluctant about being on
the air, but she graciouslydecided to join me.
So in a moment I'm going tointroduce you to my friend
Bethany.
She has been actually followed.
She's following up with theother siblings who've been on
this podcast, so her brother andher sister have been here, and
(01:18):
so finally I was able to twistBethany's arm and she can join
us too.
So excited about having her.
But before we jump into theinterview, I just want to give a
shout out to my sponsor thisweek, so the Van Ward Foundation
, which is the foundation thatactually sponsors much of the
work that we do not only thispodcast, but newsletters, other
(01:38):
film projects and a new cancerpastor platform.
So a shout out to thesupporters and the sponsors of
Van Ward Foundation, and if youwant more information about that
, we'll put the link in thenotes below.
But thank you for all of thosewho are generous donors of the
foundation.
You make this possible.
(01:59):
All right, bethany, thank youfor being with us today.
I'm so glad you made some timefor us.
Bethany Franzen (02:07):
Of course, thanks for having me.
Piet Van Waarde (02:08):
She is a busy mom of two young kids.
How old are they?
Bethany Franzen (02:12):
Eden is three.
Well, she'll be three inFebruary, and then Ezra is four.
Piet Van Waarde (02:17):
All right, yeah , so yeah, you're a busy mom.
Bethany Franzen (02:19):
Very busy.
Piet Van Waarde (02:21):
Single mom too, which we'll get into in a bit.
Yes, All right, well, let'sstart way back at the beginning.
I often like to ask my guestskind of how they grew up and
some of their influences, andyou had a particularly
interesting growing up yearsbecause you did that
international.
Yes, your dad and mom weremissionaries and so you've kind
(02:42):
of been in various places aroundthe globe.
Tell us about what that waslike.
Bethany Franzen (02:49):
What was it like I was thinking about when
you sent me the question?
So think about it.
It's hard to describe it.
I would say honestly, lookingback, it was just fun.
I really enjoyed all the newexperiences, all the people, I
(03:10):
think it.
We never knew when we weregoing to move or where we were
going to move, so there was alot of mystery.
So I think at a young age I gotused to the idea that, like I
don't know the future and Ican't control it, which there
were highs from that and somelow lows from that.
But I don't, it was just.
It was wonderful, I loved it.
Piet Van Waarde (03:31):
So tell me some of the places you lived.
Bethany Franzen (03:33):
We lived.
I was born in Thailand and butthey were living in Mongolia at
the time.
So I lived in Mongolia and thenwe lived in the Himalayas, in
Darjeeling it's a little town inthe Himalayas near Nepal.
And then I lived in Bangalore,india, which is like a city
crazy so fun, very chaotic, butjust full of life.
(03:59):
And then Thailand, and thenafter then, I graduated high
school from there, and then,from there, I like, moved a
bunch of other places.
Okay, and then when did I?
Graduated high school fromthere, and then from there, I
like, moved a bunch of otherplaces.
Piet Van Waarde (04:07):
Okay, and then, when did you end up in the
States?
Bethany Franzen (04:09):
So I ended up in the States when I was 18.
For like a year or a little bitI came back to the States and
then kind of went all over, andthen now we're back in Texas.
Piet Van Waarde (04:23):
Well, welcome back to Texas.
Bethany Franzen (04:24):
Thanks.
Piet Van Waarde (04:26):
You also had, if I remember the story correct,
you had a pretty dramatichealing early in life.
Bethany Franzen (04:33):
Yes, I forget about that.
I did, I did.
Piet Van Waarde (04:36):
I hope you forget about that.
Bethany Franzen (04:37):
Well, it's just , I was so young and when I was
I was born healthy.
And then, when I was 18 monthsold, my parents noticed that I
had my legs.
There were no muscle and likeno really bone structure, it was
just very flubby.
And they realized that, um,they took me to the doctor and
(04:58):
he said I had something calledspina bifida, which there are
different levels of it, but Ihad the most severe one, which
meant I'd be paralyzed for therest of my life.
Because I don't know I feellike people are going to correct
me, but I don't know the exactscientific thing, but I think
there's a hole somewhere in yourspine so it causes all these
issues.
So the doctor said I was goingto be in a wheelchair for the
(05:19):
rest of my life and potentiallyhave some like mental, like
problems and just like be behind.
And then do you want me toexplain what happened, or?
Piet Van Waarde (05:34):
just yeah, go ahead.
Okay, we're all curious.
Bethany Franzen (05:38):
And then so obviously my parents were
devastated.
We were in, they were inMongolia, so they got their
church together and theirfriends, the local people there
that loved God, and they prayedand fasted for three days.
And my dad had this memory ofthis time when I was younger,
when my mom was well, when mymom was pregnant with me, and he
(05:59):
felt like this place we werestaying at, like that a curse
had come on me Because they hadhad a bunch of stuff happen with
Hannah and Josh and they prayedover them but not me because I
was in my mom's womb.
So he broke it off and then thenext day I started to crawl and
the day after that, walk andthen run and climb.
So it was like that it was veryfast.
(06:21):
Yeah, it was crazy, and my dadwould always say like it broke
his heart because I was so happyand so engaging, but I'd just
sit there and do nothing Like Iwouldn't try.
Piet Van Waarde (06:33):
You know, and yeah, and I guess and you have
had no other symptoms ever since.
Bethany Franzen (06:37):
So I do One of the remaining things and my dad
says it's like proof of what Goddid is my teeth?
They're horrible.
And my dad says it's like proofof what God did is my teeth?
They're horrible.
These are veneers.
They're fake because they havethese lines across from them to
show like there was trauma orillness in my body.
And then I had something calledaudio processing, which I think
(06:58):
was a result of that.
For me, it looked like for somereason I couldn't hear.
I had a really difficult timewith like spelling and reading
because I couldn't hear.
Sound like I didn't understand.
I don't fully understand whatwas wrong I just couldn't get it
so I struggled a bit in schoolfor a while, but that was the
(07:19):
that's the extent.
Piet Van Waarde (07:19):
I guess that was yeah, wow, and what a story.
Bethany Franzen (07:23):
Yes, I'm so thankful that I can move.
It's a huge gift.
Piet Van Waarde (07:29):
So I would imagine that that had a pretty
profound effect on your faithdevelopment.
I mean, obviously your parentsare missionaries but then you
experienced this miraculousmiracle which I'm sure you heard
the stories about when you gotolder.
Did that have a positive neteffect on how your faith
(07:50):
developed, or what influence didthat experience have on your
faith?
Bethany Franzen (07:55):
That's a good question.
Honestly, I haven't thoughtabout that, but I would say I
was privileged enough to grow upin a family and in an
environment where I often sawmiraculous things happen or
often heard about them.
So I think because I wasblessed with that, it was like
okay, this happens.
You know that's God, and I'msure it influenced me, but just
(08:19):
from a young age I always I justknew God was there, I knew he
was present.
So I don't know if itnecessarily shifted the way I
viewed him or like played a partin me being like, okay, because
I was healed, I know he's real.
It's definitely helped me, like.
If people have been arguingwith me about the realness of
God, I'm like, okay, that's youropinion.
Piet Van Waarde (08:40):
But I have something like that I have no
reason to doubt.
Bethany Franzen (08:45):
Like it's crazy you know, so I would say I
don't know if it fullyinfluenced like my relationship
with God, but it is definitelysomething I'm so thankful for,
For sure.
Piet Van Waarde (08:58):
And did you have a time where you kind of
walked away from the Lord, whereyou kind of said, well, I want
to kind of do my own thing, orhas it always been kind of
straight and narrow?
Bethany Franzen (09:09):
I've always loved God, but I have not always
understood how much he loves me, and I think because of that
Say that again, because I thinkthat's so important.
Okay, I've always loved God, butI haven't always understood how
much he loves me and from thatlike wrong belief of who I am
and what he thinks of me, I'vedefinitely—it's hard.
(09:32):
I never was like God's not real.
I don't want anything to dowith this.
I'm going to do what I want todo.
It was more—and I've alwaysbeen very—I'm a big thinker like
like, very introspective andvery self-aware, like my
weakness would be to be likereally, I beat myself up a lot,
so I was always aware of what Iwas doing and why I was doing it
(09:55):
, but I would say when I waslike between, I think, after
high school to before, likeright before I got pregnant with
my son, I definitely wentthrough a period of just not, I
was deconstly.
(10:15):
My parents didn't put this onus, but I put on myself like, oh
, like my parents are well-knownin the church and I need to
look a certain way and I need todo these things, because this
is what you should do.
Piet Van Waarde (10:36):
And.
Bethany Franzen (10:36):
I didn't understand why I was doing it,
you know.
Piet Van Waarde (10:38):
So like.
Bethany Franzen (10:40):
I mean to get really personal.
Like, for example, a well-knownthing in the church, right,
it's a hot topic.
But like premarital sex, right,we say we don't sleep around
before.
Like you're married, and mywhole life I'd been like, yeah,
we don't do that.
And then I think things likethat started getting challenged
once I was on my own and I waslike but why?
(11:00):
I don't understand, you know.
So I never walked away from God, I think.
Once I was on my own and Ididn't have my parents telling
me God loves you, this is whatwe do, this is what we don't do.
Not that they were likehelicoptering, but in general, I
had very constant influences inmy life.
(11:21):
I definitely went through aperiod of just saying like, God,
I don't, I don't.
I know you're here, but I don'tknow where you are and I don't
know why I do what I do and Ineed to like I want to make
choices because I know I'm loved.
I don't want to make choices,so I'm loved.
Does that make sense?
Piet Van Waarde (11:36):
Absolutely.
Bethany Franzen (11:37):
So I definitely wrestled with that and I think
during that time I, like I, Iwould say I would say an
outsider looking in their quick,the statement would be oh, she
walked away from God, but itreally that would be too
simplistic.
Yeah, I was like talking,spending time with God every day
.
It was like I I was justwrestling with just there was
(12:03):
also it's like hard to explainbecause there was a lot of pain
that I was working through fromjust before that.
I think it just all came tohead, you know, during that time
.
Well, I think one of the things.
Piet Van Waarde (12:15):
If I may, I think that one of the things
that always encourages me whenpeople are quote unquote
wrestling with their faith, itmeans they're taking it
seriously.
It's like it's not justsomething they put on and like
well, this is what I'm supposedto do, because I'm in a
Christian family, or whatever.
When you're wrestling with yourfaith, it means that you've
like, you're thinking about it,that you're like do I want to
(12:37):
adopt this particular idea or doI want to follow this
particular principle or truthand you know you can say no, but
I think, knowing a little bitabout you, that after wrestling
through it, you're like you knowwhat, okay, I see some of the
wisdom of that.
I'm going to try and align mylife with it.
Or I've made some mistakes andnow I realize why that might be
(12:57):
something I would want to payattention to in the future.
I think both for sure, whichleads me into you, me into a
more uncomfortable part of yourlife.
So I had the privilege of doingyour wedding, yes, and it was a
wonderful, wonderful experience.
You had gotten pregnant, butyou wanted to.
(13:19):
Now.
Okay, now that we're here, Iwant to commit my life to this
guy and he to you and for awhile that seemed to work and
then after a while it didn't.
And I don't want you to feelpressured to talk about anything
you'd feel uncomfortabletalking about.
But as you look at thatexperience now in retrospect,
(13:41):
what are some of the things thatyou think might have
contributed to it not beingeverything you hoped it would be
?
Bethany Franzen (13:50):
Ooh, um, I that's like that's hard to
answer Cause there's so many.
Piet Van Waarde (13:59):
Yes.
Um and, like I said there's,there's a very personal side.
You don't want to have tonecessarily talk about.
Bethany Franzen (14:05):
Oh no, that's okay, I'm trying to put all my
thoughts together.
What didn't I think so, duringthat period of, like wrestling
with God, is what I think youknow, and asking him questions
and trying to, I think, for thefirst time, be honest.
You know, and asking themquestions and trying to, I think
, for the first time, be honest,in that place I felt really
(14:27):
vulnerable and I didn't know whoI was, and so I think I I did,
I sought it in my ability tolove and at that time it was my
ability to love my um, my kid'sdad and I think what I didn't.
(14:49):
I looked past things that then,like I, because of what I
thought love was in relationship, and like, oh, I'm a Christian,
I mean, one of the biggestthings.
Wait, let me just preface this.
We both believe differentthings.
I believed in God and he didnot.
That was a big that.
Just there's a reason in theBible.
It says you shouldn't, you know.
(15:10):
Be unequally yoked yeahunequally yoked because it just
when, like, the core of mymorals and the choices that I
make are God and the Bible, andso if two people don't have very
different cores like thatdictate what they do, it's just
not going to work out you know,and so that was.
Piet Van Waarde (15:32):
If I just interject, I just want to put
like a exclamation point on that, because I think you know there
are so many things that whenyou feel an emotional attraction
to somebody and you feel lovefrom them and you get a chance
to love them and it works and itfeels good, that can be so
deceptive as a long-termstrategy for the relationship.
(15:55):
It's great as a hey, there'ssomething interesting here for
the relationship.
It's great as a hey, there'ssomething interesting here.
But unless you share that moralfoundation where the thing that
you're drawing your decisionsfrom as principles or practices,
if it isn't similar, you knowit's just you're going to be at
(16:15):
odds all the time about likewhat's right and what's good and
what's acceptable and what'snot, and so yeah, absolutely.
Bethany Franzen (16:22):
Yeah, everything gets like.
You're never able to reallycome to a conclusion with any
argument or conversation becauseyou're coming from such
different places like long-term,you know.
Right.
So I would say that was one ofthe biggest you know things, and
I think in this process as I'vegrown and gotten older, I
(16:44):
wasn't.
I think I had amisunderstanding of what grace
and forgiveness was, and therewere just times, I think, in our
dating relationship that I meanaside from, you know, the bl
blaring, we had different values.
But I extended grace and I waslike, oh, I should forgive, this
(17:05):
is what love would do, whenreally it was like no, actually
love doesn't enable wrong.
That's not love, you know.
Piet Van Waarde (17:12):
And so I think I was more.
Bethany Franzen (17:14):
I was enabling out of a place of fear, because
I didn't want to be alone, andso I would say that was one of
the things I mean, and then wehad.
Now, in hindsight, the reason Ithink you should wait to have
sex till marriage now is becauseit does put like we had sex.
(17:35):
Obviously I was pregnant beforewe got married.
It like the hormones from it.
It just fogs your view.
It does I.
I call them glasses.
You get these glasses on whereyou just can't like when there
are hard things, you're notaddressing it with the same
clarity of mind as you would ifthere weren't, like those
(17:55):
hormones raging through yourbody and like yeah.
So I think those were three ofthe main things that definitely
did not set us up for success.
Piet Van Waarde (18:10):
I often talk to people about, carol and I did
premarital counseling for 30some odd years.
I mean, we did it for a longtime and we encourage people to
be abstinent for the exact oneof the reasons was exactly what
you just said and you make.
It makes sense when you reallystep back and think about it.
God wanted to create this thingthat couples could share.
(18:32):
That would be so powerful andso intimate and so beautiful
that it would help in keeping acouple together.
So it has this bonding twobecome one flesh.
I mean, I think there's a real.
It's more than symbolic.
I think that's really somethingmysterious and true.
And if you bond before you'reready to make the commitment to
(18:55):
be bonded, you might assume,because of all the things that
you feel in that environment,that, wow, this is really good,
because the sex is great and itis exactly like you said.
It creates this sense of you'rebeing closer to each other than
(19:15):
you really really are and youget deceived by it and so, yeah,
it's a hard lesson.
Bethany Franzen (19:21):
It is, and like there's no, I want to clear up
there's no condemnation for mefor anyone who like.
I just know I can only speakfrom personal experience, and I
think too, because of the natureof our story and the way things
went down, if I had said, if Ihad been more firm with myself
and said that wasn't a line Iwas going to cross, we actually
(19:42):
I think things would have maybecome to the light sooner and we
probably wouldn't have ended upmarried, I think, because I
don't know.
You can always go back in time,but you know, I just it's hard.
But yeah, those were the things.
Piet Van Waarde (19:56):
I think that and you have these two beautiful
kids, but then God, you knowGod always has it and he comes
in and and Ezra I mean.
Bethany Franzen (20:08):
So the beauty of this whole story is when,
when I met my kid's dad, I wasin a really, really rough space,
like really struggling with aton of depression.
I had struggled with suicidalideation from a really young age
because of some stuff thathappened and just like like
everything, like eatingdisorders, self-harm, like every
(20:30):
everything and just, and I Ijust didn't understand why, like
my siblings were always sodriven and like they like seemed
to love life and I juststruggled mentally so much with
life and and then it got reallybad.
I also wasn't helping myself bydrinking and um during that
(20:52):
time period, but I like knew itwas like six months of like I
never went through a party phaseor anything in high school, but
there were like six monthswhile dating that I drank a lot
and I knew exactly why I wasdrinking.
I was like I am depressed andI'm drinking, so I don't feel it
.
I knew it, so it wasn't likethere wasn't even a fun in it.
Piet Van Waarde (21:09):
You know, it was just sad but I, anyway, I
just it.
Bethany Franzen (21:16):
actually my kid's dad actually sat me down
and talked to me and he was likeI care about you, but I'm
worried.
I can't spend the rest of mylife worried that something's
going to happen to you becauseyou're not taking care of
yourself.
And I really think that was Godspeaking to me in that moment,
because for me it was like awake-up call, like, okay,
bethany, take ownership.
Great, you're not feeling good.
You've struggled with thesefeelings your whole life you've
(21:39):
struggled with.
One of the biggest things Ialways struggled with was like I
know god's real, but I don'tfeel it in my heart like god, if
you're so good and you're soreal, why do?
Why do I want to die like?
Why does life feel so dark?
Why does it feel like I'mwalking in a cloud?
You know and like I know allthe scriptures to quote.
I know all the prayers to pray,I've read every devotional out
there, like I've heard all thesermons, but I was still
(22:03):
wrestling and hurting and anyway.
So when he sat me down and saidthat, yes, interject.
Piet Van Waarde (22:14):
We are on holy ground here.
Thank, thank you for being sohonest.
Bethany Franzen (22:19):
Of course, and vulnerable.
Yeah, it's my pleasure.
Piet Van Waarde (22:24):
Thanks for providing the space.
Bethany Franzen (22:27):
Well, actually that was one of the promises to
myself, because I used to bevery hidden, I wouldn't tell
people what was going on, and Ithink that drove the depression
deeper.
I think the enemy loveshiddenness drove the depression
deeper.
I think the enemy loveshiddenness.
And so I remember in highschool actually, I told god.
I was like, if, like, just helpme, not lie anymore, because
people would ask me, how are younot saying it was good and it
(22:47):
would just make it so much worseright and um, so anyway, me
being honest is a testament towhat god's done, because I used
to be terrified of sharing whatwas actually going on and what I
was actually struggling with.
You know, because there's.
I mean, yeah, just talkingabout like eating disorders and
self-harm and suicide anddepression.
(23:09):
Now it's more, you know,accepted.
But at least at that time Ididn't think as like a
missionary kid, that's okay.
You can't love God and struggle, you know, so anyway.
So what was I saying?
Piet Van Waarde (23:20):
So, what turned the corner, and I'm guessing
that we all have.
You know Paul talks about it asa besetting sin that we have
those things that tend to becomeweaknesses or vulnerabilities
that we wrestle with for therest of our lives wrestle with
(23:43):
for the rest of our lives.
But we do also, as we grow andlearn, are able to navigate the
challenge with a bit morematurity and grace.
And so I'm curious because youknow you seem to be doing really
well, and I know from otherconversations that it's not just
a show you really are doingpretty good, despite challenges
of being a single mom.
Bethany Franzen (23:59):
I'm laughing because this weekend I was
actually in the fetal positioncrying about this whole
situation.
So I am doing good, but thereare rough moments, for sure,
totally so what do?
Piet Van Waarde (24:11):
you attribute some of the, because I'm
guessing that, as people listento you, there are going to be so
many people who say I have feltthat, because I'm guessing that
, as people listen to you, thereare going to be so many people
who say I have felt that I'mthere, I don't know what to do.
I believe in God.
I've read all the stuff but Istill struggle in these ways.
What advice, what encouragementwould you give for somebody
(24:37):
who's like in that place, kindof reflecting on your own story?
Bethany Franzen (24:43):
Like in the place of questioning.
Piet Van Waarde (24:45):
Yeah, and just feeling like how am I going to
keep on going forward when Ifeel like all this stuff is and
nothing I've tried has workedthus far?
Bethany Franzen (24:54):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Are?
Yeah?
Um, that's a great question.
I would say one of the biggestthings is to what I call truth
tell, just be honest, tell godwhat you feel.
And I mean like, like, becauseI think most, most of the things
that we struggle with arerooted in a lie about god,
(25:15):
ourself and others, and I'dwrote it down in my journal.
But one of the things that I'velearned what confession and
repentance really is is.
Confession is telling God thetruth and admitting the lie.
And repentance to me, this isreceiving the truth from him
(25:36):
right.
To me, it was always like I'msorry, god.
So I was stuck in this sentencelike I'm sorry, I'm depressed
today, I'm sorry, I want to dietoday, I'm sorry I had sex again
today or whatever it was.
But then the past couple ofyears, god's just been like he's
a loving father and he's notlooking at us, waiting for us to
(26:00):
apologize for things he alreadyknows we're wrestling with, and
like I really believe everybehavior is rooted in able, like
a lie, right, every behaviorthat hurts us essentially.
So I would say just be honest,like, if you're angry at God,
god, I'm angry at you.
(26:21):
I don't believe that you canactually intervene in this
situation.
I mean, there have been so manymornings I have spent just
crying and, like you say you'refaithful, you say you're good.
Why is this situation notchanging?
Why is it getting worse?
Why are my worst fearshappening when I've tried to
honor you and I've tried likejust and what I'm saying might
not be correct, right orbiblically correct or any of
(26:43):
that, but it's just the truth ofwhat I'm feeling, because until
I admit the truth, I'm notgoing to be able of like what I
think, I'm not going to be ableto exchange it for what he has
to say.
So then I would say, afterbeing honest with God, he's not
trying to do behavioralmodification, he wants real
(27:04):
people.
Right After being honest, justsay God, what do you want me to
know about this and what do youwant me to do and what do you
want me to receive?
More often than not, for methat has just been him like hey,
today's enough, and I'm hereright now and like just
receiving his, like joy or hispeace.
And there is no way I wouldhave gotten through the past
(27:28):
couple of years without thesupernatural grace of God and
being honest, because otherwiseit's all about me and like my
ability to perform, and there'sno way I could have dealt with
heartbreak and raising my kidsall at the same time, and like
all the challenges that comewith that you know Sure.
So that's a bit all over theplace.
No, it's beautiful To put it insteps which I don't like steps,
(27:52):
but are just like tell thetruth, be honest and have a
conversation with God.
That's a huge thing, I think alot of times we come at him like
we're just begging him forthings.
He's a dad that loves us.
And he already knows what weneed before we ask for it, right
?
Piet Van Waarde (28:10):
Yeah.
Bethany Franzen (28:11):
So it's just like and I think it's just
changing the way that we viewGod, because so often I think
Christians we come at it as likepeople might disagree with this
, but like we're paying penancefor our sins constantly.
And it's not this like open,like you're already loved, you
messed up, great, you're alreadyloved, come here.
And so we withdraw ourselvesfrom him.
(28:31):
Does that make sense?
Piet Van Waarde (28:32):
For sure.
Bethany Franzen (28:34):
When he didn't step away, and then that's when
hiddenness comes in.
Yeah, and then performance andlike, okay, how can I be a good
person today?
Piet Van Waarde (28:42):
And then you feel so disingenuous because
you're not authentic.
Yes, you feel fake and you'replaying the game, yeah.
Bethany Franzen (28:47):
And then, oh, it must be God.
God's not real, you know, yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (28:51):
So I think, yeah, I don't know if that makes
sense.
Totally made sense.
It was beautiful actually.
So thank you.
So one of the things I've beenlearning about.
So I've been in this cancerjourney, as you know, and at
(29:14):
first you're just totally takenaback by the things you're
feeling and things you have todo and the things that have
changed about your life, butthen along the way you begin to
realize that it's not just bad Ikeep coming back to the
scripture what the enemy ismeant for evil, god can turn to
good and he redeems it all.
So as you look at your scenario, do you begin to have a sense
(29:37):
of how God's redeeming this?
Bethany Franzen (29:42):
Maybe not the specific oh God, that's so hard
to answer Because there's, likeyou know, the negative side of
my brain that's like, no, it'shonest.
Yeah, the reality.
But then there's the reality.
So I would say, okay,personally, in me, this
situation what I was going tosay previously and I got
(30:04):
sidetracked was my kids that hadthat conversation with me.
Then I started to like, okay, Ineed say the biggest wake-up
call for me and really pushed meforward into becoming healthy
and really like, okay, what do Istand for?
What do I believe?
Right, so that was already theredemption of God.
(30:26):
He took two messy, hurtingpeople and he's like I'm going
to give you a gift.
Ezra has been the greatest giftin my life and I would say,
looking at all of this, theredemption in it, it's still in
process.
One of my favorite quotes,actually by Lisa Turkis Turkis,
I can't say her name, but iseverything God touches is
(30:47):
eventually redeemed.
With God, there's always ameanwhile.
So for me, I think I've seenthe way, at least personally,
god's taken some of the worst.
I mean it was like betrayal wasone of my greatest fears in
life, like it's abandonmentright, and I have parents who
(31:14):
were married for 30 years.
Like, marriage was something Idreamed about as a little girl
and for me it was forever.
And so when I was faced with asituation where I was like you
want it to be forever, but youcan't force marriage right, you
can't force someone to stay.
And so then I had to makechoices that were really
difficult and went againsteverything I ever dreamed of or
(31:36):
wanted, that were reallydifficult and went against
everything I ever dreamed of orwanted.
But I saw the redemption.
I have seen and continue to seethe redemption of God, by the
way, that he has somehow managedto heal me from, like, for an
example, an eating disorder.
Like, somehow in at one pointin this, like in the process,
process of the marriage ending,I had to leave and I had Ezra
(32:01):
and a newborn, so I had all theraging hormones and I had an
eating disorder because therewas so much stress.
It was the way I was coping.
It's not an excuse, it's justthe truth and somehow in the
midst of it, god healed me.
He filled me with this power tobe like what do I want to set
(32:21):
my kids up for?
Like I'm making choices to setthem up and the next generation.
So like, what do I want to dotoday to help me?
And in situations that I feellike should have broken me, and
like, totally I feel likeyounger bet Bethany would have
numbed out, I've seen the handof God just like guide me and it
(32:43):
didn't take the pain away andit didn't change the situation,
like my marriage is over right.
I begged for it not to happen,I begged for change, but I've
seen him.
I don't know how to put it intowords.
The redemption of God in thisand it's continuing to happen
(33:05):
and I believe the story willcontinue to unfold is I've
learned that your greatest fearsand your greatest pain aren't
the end of your story and I'vecontinually seen how God will
step in and does step in and isvery present in pain In this
world.
You're going to have trouble.
Everybody, whether you believein God or not, there's pain and
(33:28):
unfortunately, people hurt,people make really hurtful
choices, and so I wish my storywas oh, the redemption is my
marriage is saved, everything'sperfect, and that's not it.
But I would say now I have somany tools to be able to like
(33:49):
face life and face hardship inmy kids' life and like another
example I've seen, theredemption of God is a
situation's brought my wholefamily together.
So my parents are here with us,which is such a gift, and my
brother and, like my kids, arebeing influenced by them when
they probably wouldn't have been, you know, and it's because
they were overseas.
Piet Van Waarde (34:08):
They were overseas.
Bethany Franzen (34:10):
And I mean I've seen I didn't know where I was
going to live.
I moved nine times and thehouses were provided every time
by my parents and people'sgenerosity, but it was 100% God
as well, and I think it's justsolidified in me God's faithful
(34:32):
and he's there.
And just because there's paindoes not mean it's the absence
of God, like if God is anywhere,it's in pain, he parachutes
into our pain.
Does that make sense?
Piet Van Waarde (34:44):
For sure, and I think it's such a beautiful
truth and you know the idea thatboth things can exist at once,
that you can be in deep sorrowand pain and God is also right
there with it, and one wouldsuggest or suspect let's say
(35:06):
that if God's there then it'snot going to be painful or it's
not going to be hard, but thosethings are kind of together.
God walks with us in the hard,because the world is broken and
we make bad choices and all therest.
But yes, I totally get that andI think when people can embrace
(35:27):
that in the midst of the hard,that is their salvation right,
that God will walk with them inthe pain and ends up using it to
redeem things in us and thenactually our story becomes a
redemptive story for others.
So, yeah, totally, totally getit and see it.
Bethany Franzen (35:46):
Can I add one more thing Please do?
The biggest redemption is 100%.
My kids, though.
They have like I feel, like Iobviously I wasn't being the
wisest when I got pregnant withmy son, or even my daughter.
Well, we, I, we wanted themclose together, but like it
probably wasn't the like wisesttime to have a second kid with
all that was going on.
But they have.
(36:10):
The way that God has shown melike the beauty of his nature
through them is just crazy.
They have have been such it'snot their job to heal me at all,
but just by being kids andbeing so, just incredible, like
it's been so healing for me.
You know, and so I think that'sone of like that is a ezra
(36:32):
especially is a constantreminder to me of like god
really does follow through onthe promise that he will take
the bad and make good, like evenour irresponsible choices.
If we allow him to step in, heoften I mean he will make it
beautiful and I promise, ifanyone meets my kids like
(36:53):
they're just beautiful, likeinside and out, but there's just
I really see the heart of Godin them.
you know, and I don't know ifanyone's going to make you want
to grow up, it's kids, they'rejust so amazing?
Yeah, I don't know, they are.
Piet Van Waarde (37:09):
And I can attest I know it's not just a
prejudicial mom saying this,that's true.
Bethany Franzen (37:12):
I'm very biased .
Piet Van Waarde (37:15):
All right, I want to talk about one thing and
I and I, then we'll close it up.
But I didn't prepare you forthis question, but as you've
been sharing, I thought oh.
I want to.
I want to address that.
So you're also an artist, right?
So you do art and it's reallyreally good.
And I'm curious do you feellike part of how you process
(37:40):
yourself and your pain isthrough your art?
Do you see it that way?
Or what's the inspirationbehind your art?
Bethany Franzen (37:48):
Are you speaking of, like singing or
painting?
Painting, okay, so my artisticside definitely died in, like
I've let it die in the pastcouple of years because of all
the craziness of everything.
It's an excuse, but it's alsothe truth, like I think that's
one side.
Actually, this year I felt likeGod challenging me to bring
(38:10):
back to life, to like expresswhat I like what you said,
express what I've experiencedand what I've learned, what you
said, express what I'veexperienced and what I've
learned.
I would say the biggest way,one of the biggest ways I
expressed my pain in the processwas through singing, because
singing is one of the ways Iexpress the artistic side of me
(38:30):
and at my church I helpoccasionally lead worship.
And I would say those momentsare like the moments where I'm
like okay, god, life is messybut I surrender, this is about
you, and those are like I feellike I encounter him so sweetly
in those moments because it'snot about me, it's not about the
situation, it's just thegoodness of God.
And then when I was painting inthe past, when I was dealing
(38:53):
with the depression and stuff,it was a way for me like there
would always be somehow my, my,my paintings were all very
colorful and bright and I feellike they expressed my desire of
what I knew was there, but justmy like, whatever was going on
chemically inside of me, youknow, and everything else just
(39:14):
wasn't adding up.
So, yes, I think my art is away I express who I am.
Like all my tattoos tell astory.
I'm very intentional about theway I express myself, or I try
to be, but I would say I'veallowed.
Piet Van Waarde (39:32):
That's an area where I just kind of Well, bring
it back out, girl, it's so good.
Bethany Franzen (39:38):
I want it to come back out.
I do because I want my kids tobe expressive and artistic and
creative.
Piet Van Waarde (39:45):
Yeah, well, this has been an absolutely
amazing conversation.
Thank you for all that you said, and I think not only have I
been enriched by it, but I thinkeverybody who listens to this
will be helped and blessedreally honestly.
So thank you, and thank you forjoining us.
We will be back again foranother episode of Sidewalk
(40:07):
Conversations.
Thanks for being here.
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