March 22, 2024 • 43 mins
Perimenopause and menopause are making their way into online chatter, but that wasn't the case a few years ago when we went through The Big Transition. In this episode, we're sharing our perimenopause stories and how we discovered what was happening to us. Elizabeth went through menopause early at age 41 followed by Sarah a couple of years later in her late 40's. There is so much we wish we had known then, so this is our attempt to put it out into the world.
If you think this doesn't apply to you, please give a listen so you can support someone you will surely know who will experience menopause.
Sleepy Sisters podcast is hosted by Elizabeth Brink and Sarah Durham. This show is unedited and often unprepared for, so we hope you enjoy our resistance to perfection!
www.thrivingsistercoaching.com
www.kattywhompous.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:00):
Well hello, the sleepy sisters are
(00:02):
back. This is Elizabeth BrinkZerah Durham. And if you are not
someone who has the potential toexperience menopause, we want
you to still stay with us herebecause you may know someone,
chances are you know someone.
(00:23):
And hopefully what we share willbe useful to you and how you
care for those around you, ifnot for you, personally.
Okay, so we we want to talkabout menopause, perimenopause,
the transition, as it's known,sometimes the great transition.
(00:47):
And we want to talk about it inthis episode, and then we want
to come back and talk about itagain, in another episode. So
we'll see how far we get today.
But we thought we would startwith sharing a little bit of our
personal stories aroundmenopause, and see where that
takes us. So I guess we preppeda little bit and that we had a
(01:09):
42nd conversation.
Story, for the most part, weknow our own story, the
transition thing, the firstthing I thought of was like when
people refer to like, the bigtransition as either menopause
or death Okay, soI'll go first with my story
(01:36):
since I went first, I feel likeyou've earned it.
We're gonna do a little reverseorder here. So this is
Elizabeth, if you're notfamiliar with my voice, but I
just had a birthday, I turned45. And I went through menopause
at 41, which is genetic in ourfamily.
(02:03):
And it's also kind of a lottery,a genetic lottery. So I won
something for once. Not really.
So in 2020, I was like the restof the world, freaking out about
a lot of things. And also hadtwo really young kids that are
(02:23):
very close in age, and felt likesomething is not right with me.
And I was having a lot ofintrusive thoughts, which are
thoughts that pop up that are,you know, the content of them is
typically triggering, it's dark,it's sometimes very out of
character or scary. And for me,my intrusive thoughts, the theme
(02:46):
tends to be around people I lovegetting really hurt or dying,
which is no surprise becauseI've my early life trauma.
But at the time, that wasn'treally that much on my radar. So
I, I just had a lot of feararound my kids getting hurt, my
partner getting hurt, and a lotof really graphic
(03:11):
thoughts popping in and out ofmy head about my own my own
death, too.
And I at one point said toSarah, in a group text with our
sister, Rebecca, I think, like,I'm having a lot of intrusive
thoughts. And I we've said thisa lot before, but at this one
point, I said, like I like I'mreading bedtime stories to the
(03:34):
kids and Cory left to go get heand I some ice cream for after
they go to bed. And I'm lookingat the clock to know what time
it is so that I can tell thepolice how long he's been gone
from the house when I have tocall 911. And she Sarah was
like, oh, okay, um, that that'sa little more than what I meant
(03:58):
when I said intrusive thoughtsare normal.
I was like, Wait, why? BecauseI've been having intrusive
thoughts for a long time. So Iwas like, all this time, I
thought you understood what Iwas saying. And you were telling
me it was it was okay. Everybodyhas these dark thoughts, which
they do. intrusive thoughts arenormal. But the degree and the
(04:20):
amount of them I was having hadbeen so much more intense than
ever in my life. And so, I wentto a psychiatrist. I said, I
think I have a major mooddisorder. Something's going on.
I don't know if it's OCD. Idon't know what it is. I'm
fixated on people's safety. Andand so I started some medication
for that. And at the same time,I, Sarah, your key your key
(04:46):
player in this whole storyearlier that year, in 2020 I had
Corey and I had decided the fallBefore that, we were going to
maybe try for a third kid. Andthen the pandemic hit. And we
were like, Oh, this is a badidea. So
(05:11):
we but I had I had had an IUDand I had it taken out. So we
were like back to the like childproofing things, you know what
baby proofingmy uterus, and I, but I hadn't
had a cycle. And so this wasalso happening in 2020. My last
cycle wasin March or May of 2020. I can
(05:33):
never remember which was one ofthe M months. And, and I waited
until that fall. And probablyaround the same time as the
intrusive thoughts thing. I wasjust checking other things with
Sarah. And I was like, I havenot had a period in. I think at
that point had been five or sixmonths, I didn't even know I was
(05:54):
like, I don't even know the lasttime and she said what
my doctor says after threemonths, you gotta call, but you
can't just be out there nothaving a cycle. And so at the
same time, I'm seeing thepsychiatrist, I get this
medication, anti depressant,anti anxiety medication. And,
(06:18):
and I've also liked going to mygynecologist and saying, Okay, I
think something might be up withmy cycle. So we do some testing,
we try to get my cycle to startand we can't there's all these
fun things like a progesteronechallenge didn't work.
And I start suspecting Oh, I betI bet I'm I'm this is it,
(06:41):
because I had turned 41 inMarch. And I knew that our
grandmother had gone throughmenopause at 41. I don't know
how I knew that. I don't knowwhere I got that information.
But it had just been kind ofseared into my brain. And so in
my mind, I immediately was like,Oh, I bet this. That's what this
is. So after doing some bloodwork and progesterone challenge,
(07:05):
my gynecologist agreed that Iwas going through the menopause
transition. And that, you know,typically they say, you're not,
you haven't gone throughmenopause until you've had a
year without a period. Butbecause of our family factors,
and because of my blood work andall of these things. She just
(07:26):
was kind of like, Yeah, that'sprobably what's happening. So
she recommended hormone therapy.
And I was just like, I don'tknow about that. I don't know.
And then I, the followingJanuary, talked to my
psychiatrist again. Andmentioned Oh, yeah, by the way,
I forgot to tell you, I, I amgoing through menopause like I
(07:46):
am. And he was amazing. And likeknew enough about hormones and
the impact of them to say, ifyou're a candidate for hormone
therapy, I really think youshould try it. Because there's a
lot we can do withantidepressants and other
medications. But if hormones area factor, they play a huge role
in how you feel andand so I was like, oh, okay, I
(08:12):
guess I will try them. And whatI want to say about menopause,
for me was that a lot of theexperience for me, because I
went through so young, whichthey call premature menopause.
Was in hindsight, like, I didn'tknow what was going on. I knew
(08:32):
that, like, I was reallyanxious. But we were in the
midst of like, the beginning ofa pandemic, you know, something
we had never experienced. I wasterrified all the time. And I
didn't know.
I didn't know what was just likemy trauma and my health anxiety,
(08:54):
and what was actually somethingelse going on in my body that
was causing a lot of thesethings. So it's a lot of like in
hindsight. So before when wewere trying to have kids, I had
three miscarriages before we hadour two kids, which now I see
that and I think, Oh, well, Iwas pre menopausal. And I didn't
know it in my late 30s.
(09:17):
And I see the overwhelm and theGosh, just the roller coaster I
was on in the very beginning ofparenthood. And I just I have so
much compassion for that versionof me because
I now know in hindsight,perimenopause is really
(09:40):
destabilizing. And again, I waspostpartum I was pregnant. I was
breastfeeding at differentpoints I so it just was so many
things that it wasn't reallyuntil in hindsight that I was
able to see like, oh, oh, thisis what was going on and like
youYes, all of those other things
too. But this component, when Iwas able to get a little bit of
(10:05):
stabilization around myhormones, that's when I
realized, like, whoa, whoa,whoa, whoa, why aren't people
talking about this? And,and also, some people are
talking about it, but they'renot talking about it until
they're like in their 60s. Andthey're way past it. And so I
didn't have access to thatinformation when I was going
(10:29):
through it. Nowadays, I thinkthere are a lot more people
talking about it currently. Buteven just four years ago, that
really wasn't the case. Andthere's a lot about COVID, and
how it pushed us to the onlinespaces. That actually was
beneficial for me in that way.
But I would just say like, whenpeople talk about how they're
(10:53):
feeling when they're in theirlate 30s, or into their 40s I am
vigilant about asking questionsabout their cycle, because it
plays such a big role in a lotof things, not just what we
typically have heard ofmenopause is about night sweats
and mood swings and careerchanges are what
(11:16):
it's like, it's all boy answers.
Oh, sports car. Um, it's alsoabout wanting to like holed up
in a room alone away from peoplewanting to be left alone,
wanting to be being reallytired. Like the fatigue and the
(11:37):
mental.
The cognitive fog, the brain fogseat, like, here it is right
here. Right now in this moment.
It's this like, cough cacophonyof things that are only in
hindsight to me more apparentand so for me, like what I would
say, in hindsight, my biggeststruggles were like symptoms, if
(12:01):
you want to call them that werefeeling really disconnected from
my family, like my very youngchildren and my partner, and not
really understanding why I justwanted a lot of alone time. And,
and I didn't feel bad aboutthat. I felt really detached.
And, and it didn't feel likedepression. I have had
depression before it feltdifferent. It felt like I was
(12:24):
detached. But I was like readingand studying and listening to
things and learning aboutcoaching and all this stuff that
it felt like reallyinvigorating. But it also felt
kind of wrong, becauseI had young kids and this young
family andand so that was one of my
primary signs. I had a couple ofhot flashes, which hot flashes
(12:45):
for me felt like motionsickness.
One time I threw up from one ofthem, but like I just I felt
like suddenly a little warm, butlike queasy, really queasy. And
people I asked like two hotflashes make you queasy. Like no
one can answer me. They werelike what, I don't know, maybe
(13:05):
you maybe you ate something. I'mlike, Oh, maybe I ate something.
No, y'all. Hot flashes can makeyou nauseated, they make you
feel sick to your stomach.
And but I only had a couple ofthose. I had some night sweats.
And I took pregnancy testsbecause I was in my early 40s.
And I was like, What is goingon? Am I pregnant? That was the
(13:28):
only frame of reference I hadfor some of these symptoms.
And then obviously, I had reallyheightened anxiety. So much so
that I went and sought out helpfor which I'm so glad I did.
Because that made a hugeimprovement on my life seeking
the the support of thatpsychiatrist.
(13:48):
And then I also in hindsight nowcan say I really one of my
primary symptoms was alsorelated to like acid reflux and
heartburn. And it was somethingthat I had never struggled with
ever before. And now it's likethis chronic issue for me, if I
get stressed, I have issues withacid reflux. And again, I just
(14:11):
thought, Oh, this is this newthing weird. But now four years
later, I'm like, Oh, this isrelated to menopause. It has to
be because that's when itchanged. So there's like all
these like, things physically inmy body that only in hindsight,
was I able to zoom out formyself because no one could do
it for me or it would there wereno providers that did this with
(14:34):
me and for me to zoom out and belike these things are not
disconnected from each other.
There's a common thread here.
And, and then that that enabledme to figure out you know how to
move forward with it. Which Ican share more about next time
we talk too but um, yeah, Iwould just say for me, I don't
(14:55):
think perimenopause was thatdifferent for me than it is for
a lot of pee.
Pull in that it was sodestabilizing, I think what was
unique for me was how young Iwas and the fact that I was
pregnant and postpartum througha lot of it. And,
and that none of my peers wereexperiencing this. So there were
(15:15):
a lot of other things that youcould have pointed to
it and without even consideringmy hormones, and and the world
was, you know, on fire. And sothere were just so many other
factors that it was easy to getlost in a lot of rabbit trails,
unfortunately, because it took alot of time to get the real
(15:38):
picture together.
I would saythe hardest part for me has
been, I'm gonna get a littleemotional.
Just feelinglike cheated a little bit out of
this stage of life. Like the onething about perimenopause is
(16:00):
that you still have a cycle. Soyou do still have some bursts
of, of energy around your cycle,it's less predictable. And it
might beit might be different, it might
be not as energized or moreenergy, like it's varied, but
you still have this likesomewhat reliable, energetic
cycle that like can help youfeel into like your your
(16:24):
lifeforce energy and,and not having that in my 40s,
while my kids are young, isit's really messing with my
head, and I am coming to adifferent relationship with it.
But I think generally speaking,last year, I spent a lot of time
(16:45):
grieving and just feeling like,I am older than I should be. And
it's not fair. And my body istired, more than it should be.
And that's not fair.
And lots of other people withother things going on in their
(17:06):
lives experience this kind ofdisabled feeling.
But I thinkthere was a lot for me around,
gosh, this whole journey intoparenthood, and of this last
really like seven years or so.
Eight years, I guess, goodgrace.
(17:29):
It just, yeah, it's like, Nowonder I'm exhausted. And
I wish there had been, I reallywished that like you or Becca
hadalready gone through it. Or, you
know, we're in the midst of ittoo, because it was really
lonely. Andand there was just so much
(17:51):
mystery around it. And I didn'tknow how to put to words, how it
felt to be in my body in thisdifferent way. And it felt bad a
lot. And, and,and I I didn't know how to find
like that kind of support fromy'all because I couldn't really
(18:11):
describe what I was feeling. Itwas just I mean, I think the
best word for it now is probablyinertia. There was just so much
inertia, there still is butthere was so much of it in those
first couple of years. And itwas really confusing for me.
(18:32):
Yeah, so that's kind ofthat's a little bit of like the
overview, I guess, of how ithappened to me.
What about you? I don't eventhink I've heard you really tell
your story. I was also justthinking to like, you know, our
mom, you know, she got leukemiaat 41. And she was diagnosed
(18:55):
with menopause at 40. And justthinking back, like, we had
always wondered like, which camefirst like did then leukemia
force her body into menopauseearly, or was that menopause?
Just a separate thing. And whenyou went through menopause so
early, I thought, oh, thatconfirms like, I didn't even
(19:17):
know about grandma. At the time.
I was just like, well, you'resaying this now. And I'm like, I
didn't know mom had a menopausediagnosis. I knew there was like
a question of like, is she inmenopause? Or is she sick? No,
they put her on prempro becauseshe was so young. And now you
know, looking back I think whatyou're talking about feeling
detached or she was despondent.
(19:37):
She was detached from us. I havea lot I have a lot of
hard story around that time ofgoing through some stuff
personally and like she wasunavailable. I remember being
very angry with her. And nowhaving gone through a pause, and
then also hearing you I'm justthinking about, like, wow, I
(19:58):
just she just did not have anytime.
Have a sport. And then ofcourse, she got sick. About six
months later, we found out shewas sick about six months later.
Andyeah, I just think I mean, it
was the demise of our parentsmarriage, or going her
transition, looking back becauseI was a little older.
(20:18):
I have no doubts.
And I can totally understand whyif you don't have enough systems
in place, you know, too, and youdon't know what's happening.
It's just like, I'm just, Iguess I'm just a different
person. Now. I actually neverdid care about anything. And now
I'm just like, telling you, Idon't care because I don't want
this life. See you later. Yeah.
Yeah. And, you know, you hearall the time about people going,
(20:40):
are women going through thetransition and, you know,
having, you know, ideation andreally, you know, horrible
horrible, like, cripplingdepression, anxiety and things
like that and just feeling outof body. You know, I mean, my
psychiatrists said that, like,during those hormonal events
(21:02):
like perimenopause, postpartumand puberty, that there have
been studies that you're eighttimes more likely to have
suicidal ideation and severedepression eight times. Yeah,
that's big. Well, and that's whyeveryone's slapping on
antidepressants. And it's like,this is why more education needs
to be out there more awareness,because in those that are
(21:23):
passionate about that, becausewe we see it, we've lived it, we
have clients, middle age, andfriends that, you know, it's
like, we're happy to have theconversation. But so as far as I
go, I mean, listen, I've alwayshad terrible PMS, you know, I
had her pregnancies postpartum,all that stuff. When I look
(21:45):
back. So I in my late 30s, wentto my OB Gen, because I had a
change in my cycle that was sosignificant, that it was almost
debilitating. I was having a lotof bleeding and my periods were
kind of erratic and things likethat. And I went to my surgeon
and I said, Hey, listen, I thinkI'm in perimenopause. Okay, so I
(22:06):
have a little bit of a medicalbackground was with Gnosis and
super in tune with my cyclesbecause they were so
intrusive, I guess, in like, myrelationships and, and all that
other stuff. Because there was alot of gripping on every month
or every time I my cycle came oflike, how am I going to show up
(22:29):
and also their stuff? So I wentto her and I said, I think I
might be perimenopausal. Andshe's like, No, you're too
young. How old? Were you? I waslike, probably 3738. It was
like, right before I had Sam.
And I studied, I think I thinkI'm starting to change and of
course was scoffed at and listento this doctor was a little
problematic, anyway. But um, butI'll say I was just it was kind
(22:54):
of poo pooed away. And I justwas like, okay, and her
explanation was what people'syou know, you know, women's
cycles, they just change everyso many years.
That was the progress towardmenopause. Yeah, that part was
left out. So I think the Inklingwas like, I knew my body. I knew
(23:17):
and had enough information whereI was like, This is what I think
is happening, and was justcompletely shut down. And I tell
that part because it's importantbecause it happens still now, a
lot, a lot and 15 minuteconversations with clients going
no, that's not it. You're tooyoung. And we're going to talk
(23:38):
about like the ins and outs ofthat on another like podcast,
but like, I wanted to say thatso I then had two more babies.
You know, I mean, my last babywas,
was what? 42. So, again, veryconfusing, because in my mind,
we're not really educatedaround. What does that really
(23:59):
look like for perimenopause, youkind of hear the side thing
like, oh, you can get pregnant,but then, I mean, I had no
problems getting pregnant. Andyou have you have no history of
miscarriage, no history ofmiscarriage.
I, you know, decided to have mythird kid, we tried, we got
pregnant, and we had a baby ninemonths later. And so I was like,
(24:24):
well, everything must still becompletely the way it should be.
This is just me something is isgoing on with me because I was
still struggling. But at thispoint, even though
I had an inkling, I had twobabies and you postpartum and
all this other stuff. So justkind of, you know, put a pin in
it and just put it to the side.
And then for me,I spent much of my 40s just
(24:52):
completely untethered. I mean,really. And so it started
To kind of snowball, and I wouldsay, you know, 2022 Yeah, I
would say 2020. You know, Istarted having a lot more
anxiety. Of course, same withElizabeth. I mean, you know, we
(25:12):
have history pandemic, no smallthing. But I was going into the
eye doctor, and my bloodpressure was like, 175 over 90.
And listen, I was still runningall the time. Like, there was no
reason for my blood pressure tobe even if it was high from
stress, it had never been thathigh before. And so okay, that's
(25:33):
weird. You know, that's whereand then just started having the
same type of things where it'slike the impending doom. Like,
when I say impending doom, Imean, I'm like, at night laying
in my bed, trying to catch mybreath, thinking about my death,
the state of the world, my, mykids, all of the things. And
(25:58):
it's not a like, Oh, that'sreally concerning, or even, I'm
only worried about that. It'slike, impending doom is like
someone is lurking around thecorner, and they're going to
snuff you out at any moment. Imean, that is really, it's so
terrifying. And that eventuallyled to panic attacks.
I had anxiety all the time. Icouldn't string sentences
(26:21):
together. I would put objects inthe refrigerator, like non food
objects. I was put yet thepantry I was misplacing items. I
thought I was going throughearly dementia. I thought this
is it. This is the end of mybrain. My ADHD meds weren't
working very well.
(26:43):
And I just had a mild prolapse,my bladder, like, oh, yeah, I
had a prolapse too. That'sright. I've run and I mean, it
was like, my eyes will just noteven go to the bathroom because
I'm gonna pee my pants, probablyat some point during this run.
But the memory I'd have like,the easily overall my window of
(27:06):
tolerance, like nervous systemwas like, it was like paper
thin. I was either like, superpissed off, everybody was like,
against me. Or then I was like,holed up in my room. Like you
were saying, just everythingjust felt so overwhelming. And
my cholesterol was going up. Imean, these are like, without
(27:28):
changes, like things that like,nothing had changed in like, my
exercise routine, like what Iwas eating, and like these
physical changes, I start, youknow, at the wild, get my
physical.
And then I think it was like, Ithink I was was 2021. I did a
couple progesterone challenges.
The first one at the beginningof the year, worked and I got a
(27:51):
period. And I was like, Okay,well said again, I just must be
losing my mind. You know, I'mnot realizing like, really like,
because I had been told that Iwas too young. In my mind. It
was just kind of like, and youare how old then? And 2021 47
(28:19):
or something like that. Yeah. Orseven? Yeah. Or yeah, first
seven. So I went in and youknow, my origins like, well, you
could be starting the process orwhatever, but we're gonna like
No, no, no help was talkedabout. It was more about just
gathering information. So thatwas early in the year started my
period, and then didn't getanother one. So did another
(28:41):
challenge. This time, it didn'thappen. And they did a test
which are, we'll talk about thatin another episode. But I was
like, Oh, congratulations. It'snot a baby. It's a menopause.
Yeah.
And so I was like, okay, andthen although I did feel like
that when you finally got that,I was like, Oh, finally
(29:04):
somebody's over here with me.
Yeah, I know. I know. And I wasreally really glad that like,
even though I wasn't happy thatyou went through it, it was it
was a very easyI don't know just I didn't have
to go through the permissiongiving up so that you had to go
through and so many other womenhave to go through in order to
(29:27):
get the support I need. It waslike this. Someone had just done
this I trust that had done theirdue diligence at the same time.
I was researching things I waslooking things up. I'm trying to
figure out I had gone back totherapy the year before because
my I was my anxiety was so high.
I ended up retiring fromteaching.
(29:51):
So I mean, I had stressors, buteverything I've always done to
manage my anxietyI have it or my ADHD or
anything, just was no longerworking. Nothing that I had done
several years prior was workinglike, I gained weight. I mean,
they did change the runningpart. I mean, there's just it's
(30:13):
just things where it's like whatis happening to my body right
now. Like,nothing has changed. I haven't
done anything different. And yetall of these different symptoms
were just coming in justexponentially stronger. And then
I think finally, what happenedreally to end up getting on
(30:36):
HRT which was very quicklyafter, but like that, it was
like a few months of a perfectstorm of
anxiety, insomnia person. Imean, I wasn't sleeping at all,
was the night sweats. I mean, Iwould go to bed. And I would
wake up in the middle of thenight soaked from head to toe,
(30:58):
like my clothes would look likeI went and took a shower in my
clothes. What can people saytalk about night sweats, because
that can happen with other andor I had maybe a few hot
flashes. You know, to me, itfeels like what I imagined, like
if a snake was squeezing you,and it kind of just goes hot all
the way up. And then it justkind of have a snake is creeping
(31:19):
you as rally.
queasy feeling all the way uphot, and then all of a sudden,
you're sweating.
Okay, and then it goes away. Butthe nice was the reason why I
think they woke me up was oncethey like, sweated whatever that
was, I was freezing because Istill put the fan on. And so it
(31:39):
was like, I would go to bed hotkick and stuff off and wake up.
I was freezing because I wassoaking wet. And that I guess
gave my doctor like even morelike, Yeah, we should probably
start you on something orwhatever.
Even though I had already kindof initiated like, yes. Because
I'm really ready to not feellike whatever I'm feeling. So I
(32:00):
feel like for me, it was morelike I knew myself. And I knew
enough medically, I had thatcontext, a little bit of
experience. And that, that I waslike, Yeah, I'm going to
advocate and say and I wastotally dismissed,
and then entered into like, adecade of real vulnerability of
(32:25):
new marriage to more kids andbabies at an older age and that
being tired and I was teachingand so I absolutely got lost in
the mix. And there was no buddyeven though I am someone who
gets my yearly exam gets myyearly physical.
That was saying to me at all,like, let's see what all we can
(32:47):
consider is what do you want toget into depressant? That was
like that was the option myinterests like, well, let's do
that. Let's let's put you on aflexors. And by that I said, I
don't feel like that's the rightfit for me. I don't feel like I
want to get on I don't. Becauselike you I can't explain it now
because I don't rememberexactly. But I just remember
feeling like that's not it.
(33:08):
And so I said no. Well justthink about whatever. And I also
see a psychiatrist regularly. Hedidn't know anything about
menopause or perimenopause,because yeah, he just as soon
you know, subscribed me likeKlonopin or something to go to
sleep. So I just, you know, it'sjust one of those things. And
these are people who are, youknow, in the medical field. And
so there's the hindsight oflike, just how many symptoms I
(33:34):
had, and just now and onlybecause I've we've gotten
support, and I've gottensupport, and they went away, and
I'm like, okay, I'm good. Thatwas it. That was it. And you
also have experienceddepression. You have Yes, it's
like I did, I did take theantidepressant.
(34:01):
And it was really helpful. And Ithink I had but it was my first
time using an SSRI andand it was really helpful and I
am really glad I took itI wonder if I hadn't if I had
already had an experience withit previously, if I would have
had an instinct like that aboutlike, Oh, I'm not sure that's
(34:22):
gonna quite hit it yet because Ihad just been on one between the
last two kids because I'vepostpartum so badly that I knew
exactly like what it felt liketo be that kind of disconnected.
i It was it was really hard todescribe but I yeah, I feel like
(34:46):
there's always a benefit oflike,
even knowing sometimes, if youdon't have like the
I don't know the strength, thecourage or the access to keep
going to somebody else and dolike, I need you to believe me.
(35:07):
Oh my gosh, just the brainpowerto like, find a somebody else
and make an appointment and goto what everyone thinks every
doctor, you know. So yeah, it's,it's easy to get lost. And let's
face it, no one's looking aroundat middle aged women like, what
can we do for you? Like, we seeyou, you know, how can we
support you? We have to kind ofeven for ourselves, you know,
(35:31):
like, so I think.
And you had just gone through itas well. And I think that
honestly, that was helpful. Ithink the progesterone
challenge, I'm sure you weretalking to at the time, but
honestly, I was so mentallygarbled up there.
Like when I say I would, I wouldjust lose words. I mean, I still
(35:53):
will lose a word or lose mytrain of thought every now and
then. But it was, like I said, II'm not exactly when I say when
I say I thought I was I'm goingto be someone who goes through
dementia really? I am. So yeah,and it's really disconcerting.
So I'm sure you were probablytalking to me, and I kind of
(36:14):
remember that I don't remember,it just feels like kind of a
blur? Well, yeah, and I didn'treally know a lot at that point,
like I did, at some point, learnsome things about how
neurodivergent people tend toexperience
hormonal fluctuations moreintensely. And that, and I
(36:36):
learned a lot about like, themenstrual cycle and how the
different hormones affectcognitive functioning. And so
why you feel a certain way atcertain points in your cycle.
And that was really helpful forme to understand a little late
because I didn't really how tocycle any point. But But I was
talking about a lot with clientsI was talking about, I think I
(36:58):
did a couple of differentpodcasts. I mean, I was talking
about it and thinking a lotabout the role of hormones in,
you know, how we feel and how wefunction. And I remember
I remember saying to you likeyou're perimenopausal like, this
is ridiculous. You're premenopausal.
(37:20):
Like, just take my word for it.
You don't need a medicalprofessional.
But I think it was also just areally overwhelming time in
history. And so I think, like, Ialso was like building a
business and you were writingyour memoir, and you were
leaving the teaching field andrecovering from likely burnout.
(37:43):
And there were just so manyother factors at the same time.
And I think that is one of thebig flags around perimenopause
and menopause is that it's atime in your life when lots of
other things are hitting thefan. Yeah. And and so I feel
like most people could probablyhave a story like that like, but
(38:05):
there were all these othermitigating factors that seemed
very plausible for why I washaving such a crescendo of all
of these things. And it's like,yes, but in hindsight, you can
really see, like, yeah, and allof those are overwhelming or
scary or hard or painful. Andalso this piece of it, of not
(38:30):
being able to cope in yourtypical ways, and having your
body under so much stress.
Someone recently said, I don't Iwish I knew where I saw this.
But someone said that themenopause transition in and of
itself is a trauma, it's atrauma in the potty. And I was
like, Yes, I agree. And itdoesn't necessarily mean that it
has to like land that way and bestored there and that you'll
(38:54):
have PTSD from it. But it isthis huge shift in how your body
functions and how it operates.
And it's not all bad. But a lotof it is confusing, and a lot of
it is unwelcome in the stage oflife that it happens in. And as
we as human beings start livinglonger, you know, your 40s your
(39:16):
50s There's just a lot ofvitality left in those decades.
And, and so even in your 60s,like there's just still so much
vitality, that I think this isone of those things that like
challenges your understanding ofyour own vitality, and it does
it in a time in your life. Whenyou're likely mid career or even
(39:37):
in the advanced parts of yourcareer. Maybe you're in higher
levels of leadership, or youhave like more complex
responsibilities. For a lot ofpeople. You've got kids who are
pubescent are pre pubescent.
That hasn't been the case for usbecause of the timing of
parenthood and one that wasolder but yeah, right but wasn't
pubescent. When you're goingthrough this Oh, that's true.
(40:00):
That's true. And so you get thatlike kind of double puberty
of like, oh, you're goingthrough all of this. And so is
your your kid?
I think awesome. Oh, sorry. Goahead. No, you go. I was just
thinking also too is one thingthat I've learned is that
there's support forperimenopause, two, I will say
when I got that call, surprised,your Hello, I actually wasn't I
(40:24):
was still Perry, I still had twomore periods after that. So the
thing about it is like, youknow, the diagnostics around all
of that is really so boils downto the person's experience and
what they name and there isstill, and I did start my
support at that point. And I wasstill technically Peri
menopausal, which opened up awhole other research for me,
(40:45):
which we'll talk about nextpodcast. But that this isn't
just about gripping on, youknow, and that's why we wanted
to talk about it is that we knowthat everyone's going to
experience it this way. We justdon't how we experienced it. And
if we can get anyone to getcurious about
is this something that may becontributing to like some of the
(41:07):
things that are going on mylife, then we want you to do
your own digging your ownresearch and all that other
stuff. But just to know to that,like, there are people out there
who havelike cultivated ways to support
that are trained in this. Andyou know, they're not selling
some like random supplement orwhatever. It's like there are
things out there that you can bein that you don't have to wait,
(41:31):
because I think for me, Ithought still had that messaging
all the way up to the end, thatI had to be menopausal, to get
the support that I wanted to getmy hormones back where they
needed to be. And now, we havediscovered that that's actually
not the case. So it's not likeoh, yeah, yeah, I'm a parent.
(41:51):
Thanks, Sara. And I know that Iam and this sucks, and thanks
for nothing, like thanks for theawareness. It's like, no, it's
like, if you are sensingchanges, if your cycle is
changing,then start talking to your
providers. And if your providersaren't open to those
conversations, find newproviders now, before you're
further along down this path. Soyou have really collaborative
(42:14):
and supportive providers who canhelp you make those decisions
along the way, when and if thoseare possible for you.
Okay, we're gonna talk moreabout that next time and maybe
some of the like, great thingsabout being postmenopausal,
because like, there are a fewthings that I'm like, Okay, I'm
(42:36):
not sad about that.
But we're, yeah, we're at time,so we got it. Yeah, we gotta go.
We gotta go to bed.
But thanks for starting thisconversation. And I'm so happy
to have it kind ofin one place because people ask
and I'm like, it's a lot. So nowthey can just listen. Yeah, and
for our kids and for Yeah, I'mjust happy to have it documented
(43:00):
in this way. Okay, so I'll talkto you later then. Love you,
buddy. Bye bye.
Well hello, the sleepy sisters are
(00:02):
back. This is Elizabeth BrinkZerah Durham. And if you are not
someone who has the potential toexperience menopause, we want
you to still stay with us herebecause you may know someone,
chances are you know someone.
(00:23):
And hopefully what we share willbe useful to you and how you
care for those around you, ifnot for you, personally.
Okay, so we we want to talkabout menopause, perimenopause,
the transition, as it's known,sometimes the great transition.
(00:47):
And we want to talk about it inthis episode, and then we want
to come back and talk about itagain, in another episode. So
we'll see how far we get today.
But we thought we would startwith sharing a little bit of our
personal stories aroundmenopause, and see where that
takes us. So I guess we preppeda little bit and that we had a
(01:09):
42nd conversation.
Story, for the most part, weknow our own story, the
transition thing, the firstthing I thought of was like when
people refer to like, the bigtransition as either menopause
or death Okay, soI'll go first with my story
(01:36):
since I went first, I feel likeyou've earned it.
We're gonna do a little reverseorder here. So this is
Elizabeth, if you're notfamiliar with my voice, but I
just had a birthday, I turned45. And I went through menopause
at 41, which is genetic in ourfamily.
(02:03):
And it's also kind of a lottery,a genetic lottery. So I won
something for once. Not really.
So in 2020, I was like the restof the world, freaking out about
a lot of things. And also hadtwo really young kids that are
(02:23):
very close in age, and felt likesomething is not right with me.
And I was having a lot ofintrusive thoughts, which are
thoughts that pop up that are,you know, the content of them is
typically triggering, it's dark,it's sometimes very out of
character or scary. And for me,my intrusive thoughts, the theme
(02:46):
tends to be around people I lovegetting really hurt or dying,
which is no surprise becauseI've my early life trauma.
But at the time, that wasn'treally that much on my radar. So
I, I just had a lot of feararound my kids getting hurt, my
partner getting hurt, and a lotof really graphic
(03:11):
thoughts popping in and out ofmy head about my own my own
death, too.
And I at one point said toSarah, in a group text with our
sister, Rebecca, I think, like,I'm having a lot of intrusive
thoughts. And I we've said thisa lot before, but at this one
point, I said, like I like I'mreading bedtime stories to the
(03:34):
kids and Cory left to go get heand I some ice cream for after
they go to bed. And I'm lookingat the clock to know what time
it is so that I can tell thepolice how long he's been gone
from the house when I have tocall 911. And she Sarah was
like, oh, okay, um, that that'sa little more than what I meant
(03:58):
when I said intrusive thoughtsare normal.
I was like, Wait, why? BecauseI've been having intrusive
thoughts for a long time. So Iwas like, all this time, I
thought you understood what Iwas saying. And you were telling
me it was it was okay. Everybodyhas these dark thoughts, which
they do. intrusive thoughts arenormal. But the degree and the
(04:20):
amount of them I was having hadbeen so much more intense than
ever in my life. And so, I wentto a psychiatrist. I said, I
think I have a major mooddisorder. Something's going on.
I don't know if it's OCD. Idon't know what it is. I'm
fixated on people's safety. Andand so I started some medication
for that. And at the same time,I, Sarah, your key your key
(04:46):
player in this whole storyearlier that year, in 2020 I had
Corey and I had decided the fallBefore that, we were going to
maybe try for a third kid. Andthen the pandemic hit. And we
were like, Oh, this is a badidea. So
(05:11):
we but I had I had had an IUDand I had it taken out. So we
were like back to the like childproofing things, you know what
baby proofingmy uterus, and I, but I hadn't
had a cycle. And so this wasalso happening in 2020. My last
cycle wasin March or May of 2020. I can
(05:33):
never remember which was one ofthe M months. And, and I waited
until that fall. And probablyaround the same time as the
intrusive thoughts thing. I wasjust checking other things with
Sarah. And I was like, I havenot had a period in. I think at
that point had been five or sixmonths, I didn't even know I was
(05:54):
like, I don't even know the lasttime and she said what
my doctor says after threemonths, you gotta call, but you
can't just be out there nothaving a cycle. And so at the
same time, I'm seeing thepsychiatrist, I get this
medication, anti depressant,anti anxiety medication. And,
(06:18):
and I've also liked going to mygynecologist and saying, Okay, I
think something might be up withmy cycle. So we do some testing,
we try to get my cycle to startand we can't there's all these
fun things like a progesteronechallenge didn't work.
And I start suspecting Oh, I betI bet I'm I'm this is it,
(06:41):
because I had turned 41 inMarch. And I knew that our
grandmother had gone throughmenopause at 41. I don't know
how I knew that. I don't knowwhere I got that information.
But it had just been kind ofseared into my brain. And so in
my mind, I immediately was like,Oh, I bet this. That's what this
is. So after doing some bloodwork and progesterone challenge,
(07:05):
my gynecologist agreed that Iwas going through the menopause
transition. And that, you know,typically they say, you're not,
you haven't gone throughmenopause until you've had a
year without a period. Butbecause of our family factors,
and because of my blood work andall of these things. She just
(07:26):
was kind of like, Yeah, that'sprobably what's happening. So
she recommended hormone therapy.
And I was just like, I don'tknow about that. I don't know.
And then I, the followingJanuary, talked to my
psychiatrist again. Andmentioned Oh, yeah, by the way,
I forgot to tell you, I, I amgoing through menopause like I
(07:46):
am. And he was amazing. And likeknew enough about hormones and
the impact of them to say, ifyou're a candidate for hormone
therapy, I really think youshould try it. Because there's a
lot we can do withantidepressants and other
medications. But if hormones area factor, they play a huge role
in how you feel andand so I was like, oh, okay, I
(08:12):
guess I will try them. And whatI want to say about menopause,
for me was that a lot of theexperience for me, because I
went through so young, whichthey call premature menopause.
Was in hindsight, like, I didn'tknow what was going on. I knew
(08:32):
that, like, I was reallyanxious. But we were in the
midst of like, the beginning ofa pandemic, you know, something
we had never experienced. I wasterrified all the time. And I
didn't know.
I didn't know what was just likemy trauma and my health anxiety,
(08:54):
and what was actually somethingelse going on in my body that
was causing a lot of thesethings. So it's a lot of like in
hindsight. So before when wewere trying to have kids, I had
three miscarriages before we hadour two kids, which now I see
that and I think, Oh, well, Iwas pre menopausal. And I didn't
know it in my late 30s.
(09:17):
And I see the overwhelm and theGosh, just the roller coaster I
was on in the very beginning ofparenthood. And I just I have so
much compassion for that versionof me because
I now know in hindsight,perimenopause is really
(09:40):
destabilizing. And again, I waspostpartum I was pregnant. I was
breastfeeding at differentpoints I so it just was so many
things that it wasn't reallyuntil in hindsight that I was
able to see like, oh, oh, thisis what was going on and like
youYes, all of those other things
too. But this component, when Iwas able to get a little bit of
(10:05):
stabilization around myhormones, that's when I
realized, like, whoa, whoa,whoa, whoa, why aren't people
talking about this? And,and also, some people are
talking about it, but they'renot talking about it until
they're like in their 60s. Andthey're way past it. And so I
didn't have access to thatinformation when I was going
(10:29):
through it. Nowadays, I thinkthere are a lot more people
talking about it currently. Buteven just four years ago, that
really wasn't the case. Andthere's a lot about COVID, and
how it pushed us to the onlinespaces. That actually was
beneficial for me in that way.
But I would just say like, whenpeople talk about how they're
(10:53):
feeling when they're in theirlate 30s, or into their 40s I am
vigilant about asking questionsabout their cycle, because it
plays such a big role in a lotof things, not just what we
typically have heard ofmenopause is about night sweats
and mood swings and careerchanges are what
(11:16):
it's like, it's all boy answers.
Oh, sports car. Um, it's alsoabout wanting to like holed up
in a room alone away from peoplewanting to be left alone,
wanting to be being reallytired. Like the fatigue and the
(11:37):
mental.
The cognitive fog, the brain fogseat, like, here it is right
here. Right now in this moment.
It's this like, cough cacophonyof things that are only in
hindsight to me more apparentand so for me, like what I would
say, in hindsight, my biggeststruggles were like symptoms, if
(12:01):
you want to call them that werefeeling really disconnected from
my family, like my very youngchildren and my partner, and not
really understanding why I justwanted a lot of alone time. And,
and I didn't feel bad aboutthat. I felt really detached.
And, and it didn't feel likedepression. I have had
depression before it feltdifferent. It felt like I was
(12:24):
detached. But I was like readingand studying and listening to
things and learning aboutcoaching and all this stuff that
it felt like reallyinvigorating. But it also felt
kind of wrong, becauseI had young kids and this young
family andand so that was one of my
primary signs. I had a couple ofhot flashes, which hot flashes
(12:45):
for me felt like motionsickness.
One time I threw up from one ofthem, but like I just I felt
like suddenly a little warm, butlike queasy, really queasy. And
people I asked like two hotflashes make you queasy. Like no
one can answer me. They werelike what, I don't know, maybe
(13:05):
you maybe you ate something. I'mlike, Oh, maybe I ate something.
No, y'all. Hot flashes can makeyou nauseated, they make you
feel sick to your stomach.
And but I only had a couple ofthose. I had some night sweats.
And I took pregnancy testsbecause I was in my early 40s.
And I was like, What is goingon? Am I pregnant? That was the
(13:28):
only frame of reference I hadfor some of these symptoms.
And then obviously, I had reallyheightened anxiety. So much so
that I went and sought out helpfor which I'm so glad I did.
Because that made a hugeimprovement on my life seeking
the the support of thatpsychiatrist.
(13:48):
And then I also in hindsight nowcan say I really one of my
primary symptoms was alsorelated to like acid reflux and
heartburn. And it was somethingthat I had never struggled with
ever before. And now it's likethis chronic issue for me, if I
get stressed, I have issues withacid reflux. And again, I just
(14:11):
thought, Oh, this is this newthing weird. But now four years
later, I'm like, Oh, this isrelated to menopause. It has to
be because that's when itchanged. So there's like all
these like, things physically inmy body that only in hindsight,
was I able to zoom out formyself because no one could do
it for me or it would there wereno providers that did this with
(14:34):
me and for me to zoom out and belike these things are not
disconnected from each other.
There's a common thread here.
And, and then that that enabledme to figure out you know how to
move forward with it. Which Ican share more about next time
we talk too but um, yeah, Iwould just say for me, I don't
(14:55):
think perimenopause was thatdifferent for me than it is for
a lot of pee.
Pull in that it was sodestabilizing, I think what was
unique for me was how young Iwas and the fact that I was
pregnant and postpartum througha lot of it. And,
and that none of my peers wereexperiencing this. So there were
(15:15):
a lot of other things that youcould have pointed to
it and without even consideringmy hormones, and and the world
was, you know, on fire. And sothere were just so many other
factors that it was easy to getlost in a lot of rabbit trails,
unfortunately, because it took alot of time to get the real
(15:38):
picture together.
I would saythe hardest part for me has
been, I'm gonna get a littleemotional.
Just feelinglike cheated a little bit out of
this stage of life. Like the onething about perimenopause is
(16:00):
that you still have a cycle. Soyou do still have some bursts
of, of energy around your cycle,it's less predictable. And it
might beit might be different, it might
be not as energized or moreenergy, like it's varied, but
you still have this likesomewhat reliable, energetic
cycle that like can help youfeel into like your your
(16:24):
lifeforce energy and,and not having that in my 40s,
while my kids are young, isit's really messing with my
head, and I am coming to adifferent relationship with it.
But I think generally speaking,last year, I spent a lot of time
(16:45):
grieving and just feeling like,I am older than I should be. And
it's not fair. And my body istired, more than it should be.
And that's not fair.
And lots of other people withother things going on in their
(17:06):
lives experience this kind ofdisabled feeling.
But I thinkthere was a lot for me around,
gosh, this whole journey intoparenthood, and of this last
really like seven years or so.
Eight years, I guess, goodgrace.
(17:29):
It just, yeah, it's like, Nowonder I'm exhausted. And
I wish there had been, I reallywished that like you or Becca
hadalready gone through it. Or, you
know, we're in the midst of ittoo, because it was really
lonely. Andand there was just so much
(17:51):
mystery around it. And I didn'tknow how to put to words, how it
felt to be in my body in thisdifferent way. And it felt bad a
lot. And, and,and I I didn't know how to find
like that kind of support fromy'all because I couldn't really
(18:11):
describe what I was feeling. Itwas just I mean, I think the
best word for it now is probablyinertia. There was just so much
inertia, there still is butthere was so much of it in those
first couple of years. And itwas really confusing for me.
(18:32):
Yeah, so that's kind ofthat's a little bit of like the
overview, I guess, of how ithappened to me.
What about you? I don't eventhink I've heard you really tell
your story. I was also justthinking to like, you know, our
mom, you know, she got leukemiaat 41. And she was diagnosed
(18:55):
with menopause at 40. And justthinking back, like, we had
always wondered like, which camefirst like did then leukemia
force her body into menopauseearly, or was that menopause?
Just a separate thing. And whenyou went through menopause so
early, I thought, oh, thatconfirms like, I didn't even
(19:17):
know about grandma. At the time.
I was just like, well, you'resaying this now. And I'm like, I
didn't know mom had a menopausediagnosis. I knew there was like
a question of like, is she inmenopause? Or is she sick? No,
they put her on prempro becauseshe was so young. And now you
know, looking back I think whatyou're talking about feeling
detached or she was despondent.
(19:37):
She was detached from us. I havea lot I have a lot of
hard story around that time ofgoing through some stuff
personally and like she wasunavailable. I remember being
very angry with her. And nowhaving gone through a pause, and
then also hearing you I'm justthinking about, like, wow, I
(19:58):
just she just did not have anytime.
Have a sport. And then ofcourse, she got sick. About six
months later, we found out shewas sick about six months later.
Andyeah, I just think I mean, it
was the demise of our parentsmarriage, or going her
transition, looking back becauseI was a little older.
(20:18):
I have no doubts.
And I can totally understand whyif you don't have enough systems
in place, you know, too, and youdon't know what's happening.
It's just like, I'm just, Iguess I'm just a different
person. Now. I actually neverdid care about anything. And now
I'm just like, telling you, Idon't care because I don't want
this life. See you later. Yeah.
Yeah. And, you know, you hearall the time about people going,
(20:40):
are women going through thetransition and, you know,
having, you know, ideation andreally, you know, horrible
horrible, like, cripplingdepression, anxiety and things
like that and just feeling outof body. You know, I mean, my
psychiatrists said that, like,during those hormonal events
(21:02):
like perimenopause, postpartumand puberty, that there have
been studies that you're eighttimes more likely to have
suicidal ideation and severedepression eight times. Yeah,
that's big. Well, and that's whyeveryone's slapping on
antidepressants. And it's like,this is why more education needs
to be out there more awareness,because in those that are
(21:23):
passionate about that, becausewe we see it, we've lived it, we
have clients, middle age, andfriends that, you know, it's
like, we're happy to have theconversation. But so as far as I
go, I mean, listen, I've alwayshad terrible PMS, you know, I
had her pregnancies postpartum,all that stuff. When I look
(21:45):
back. So I in my late 30s, wentto my OB Gen, because I had a
change in my cycle that was sosignificant, that it was almost
debilitating. I was having a lotof bleeding and my periods were
kind of erratic and things likethat. And I went to my surgeon
and I said, Hey, listen, I thinkI'm in perimenopause. Okay, so I
(22:06):
have a little bit of a medicalbackground was with Gnosis and
super in tune with my cyclesbecause they were so
intrusive, I guess, in like, myrelationships and, and all that
other stuff. Because there was alot of gripping on every month
or every time I my cycle came oflike, how am I going to show up
(22:29):
and also their stuff? So I wentto her and I said, I think I
might be perimenopausal. Andshe's like, No, you're too
young. How old? Were you? I waslike, probably 3738. It was
like, right before I had Sam.
And I studied, I think I thinkI'm starting to change and of
course was scoffed at and listento this doctor was a little
problematic, anyway. But um, butI'll say I was just it was kind
(22:54):
of poo pooed away. And I justwas like, okay, and her
explanation was what people'syou know, you know, women's
cycles, they just change everyso many years.
That was the progress towardmenopause. Yeah, that part was
left out. So I think the Inklingwas like, I knew my body. I knew
(23:17):
and had enough information whereI was like, This is what I think
is happening, and was justcompletely shut down. And I tell
that part because it's importantbecause it happens still now, a
lot, a lot and 15 minuteconversations with clients going
no, that's not it. You're tooyoung. And we're going to talk
(23:38):
about like the ins and outs ofthat on another like podcast,
but like, I wanted to say thatso I then had two more babies.
You know, I mean, my last babywas,
was what? 42. So, again, veryconfusing, because in my mind,
we're not really educatedaround. What does that really
(23:59):
look like for perimenopause, youkind of hear the side thing
like, oh, you can get pregnant,but then, I mean, I had no
problems getting pregnant. Andyou have you have no history of
miscarriage, no history ofmiscarriage.
I, you know, decided to have mythird kid, we tried, we got
pregnant, and we had a baby ninemonths later. And so I was like,
(24:24):
well, everything must still becompletely the way it should be.
This is just me something is isgoing on with me because I was
still struggling. But at thispoint, even though
I had an inkling, I had twobabies and you postpartum and
all this other stuff. So justkind of, you know, put a pin in
it and just put it to the side.
And then for me,I spent much of my 40s just
(24:52):
completely untethered. I mean,really. And so it started
To kind of snowball, and I wouldsay, you know, 2022 Yeah, I
would say 2020. You know, Istarted having a lot more
anxiety. Of course, same withElizabeth. I mean, you know, we
(25:12):
have history pandemic, no smallthing. But I was going into the
eye doctor, and my bloodpressure was like, 175 over 90.
And listen, I was still runningall the time. Like, there was no
reason for my blood pressure tobe even if it was high from
stress, it had never been thathigh before. And so okay, that's
(25:33):
weird. You know, that's whereand then just started having the
same type of things where it'slike the impending doom. Like,
when I say impending doom, Imean, I'm like, at night laying
in my bed, trying to catch mybreath, thinking about my death,
the state of the world, my, mykids, all of the things. And
(25:58):
it's not a like, Oh, that'sreally concerning, or even, I'm
only worried about that. It'slike, impending doom is like
someone is lurking around thecorner, and they're going to
snuff you out at any moment. Imean, that is really, it's so
terrifying. And that eventuallyled to panic attacks.
I had anxiety all the time. Icouldn't string sentences
(26:21):
together. I would put objects inthe refrigerator, like non food
objects. I was put yet thepantry I was misplacing items. I
thought I was going throughearly dementia. I thought this
is it. This is the end of mybrain. My ADHD meds weren't
working very well.
(26:43):
And I just had a mild prolapse,my bladder, like, oh, yeah, I
had a prolapse too. That'sright. I've run and I mean, it
was like, my eyes will just noteven go to the bathroom because
I'm gonna pee my pants, probablyat some point during this run.
But the memory I'd have like,the easily overall my window of
(27:06):
tolerance, like nervous systemwas like, it was like paper
thin. I was either like, superpissed off, everybody was like,
against me. Or then I was like,holed up in my room. Like you
were saying, just everythingjust felt so overwhelming. And
my cholesterol was going up. Imean, these are like, without
(27:28):
changes, like things that like,nothing had changed in like, my
exercise routine, like what Iwas eating, and like these
physical changes, I start, youknow, at the wild, get my
physical.
And then I think it was like, Ithink I was was 2021. I did a
couple progesterone challenges.
The first one at the beginningof the year, worked and I got a
(27:51):
period. And I was like, Okay,well said again, I just must be
losing my mind. You know, I'mnot realizing like, really like,
because I had been told that Iwas too young. In my mind. It
was just kind of like, and youare how old then? And 2021 47
(28:19):
or something like that. Yeah. Orseven? Yeah. Or yeah, first
seven. So I went in and youknow, my origins like, well, you
could be starting the process orwhatever, but we're gonna like
No, no, no help was talkedabout. It was more about just
gathering information. So thatwas early in the year started my
period, and then didn't getanother one. So did another
(28:41):
challenge. This time, it didn'thappen. And they did a test
which are, we'll talk about thatin another episode. But I was
like, Oh, congratulations. It'snot a baby. It's a menopause.
Yeah.
And so I was like, okay, andthen although I did feel like
that when you finally got that,I was like, Oh, finally
(29:04):
somebody's over here with me.
Yeah, I know. I know. And I wasreally really glad that like,
even though I wasn't happy thatyou went through it, it was it
was a very easyI don't know just I didn't have
to go through the permissiongiving up so that you had to go
through and so many other womenhave to go through in order to
(29:27):
get the support I need. It waslike this. Someone had just done
this I trust that had done theirdue diligence at the same time.
I was researching things I waslooking things up. I'm trying to
figure out I had gone back totherapy the year before because
my I was my anxiety was so high.
I ended up retiring fromteaching.
(29:51):
So I mean, I had stressors, buteverything I've always done to
manage my anxietyI have it or my ADHD or
anything, just was no longerworking. Nothing that I had done
several years prior was workinglike, I gained weight. I mean,
they did change the runningpart. I mean, there's just it's
(30:13):
just things where it's like whatis happening to my body right
now. Like,nothing has changed. I haven't
done anything different. And yetall of these different symptoms
were just coming in justexponentially stronger. And then
I think finally, what happenedreally to end up getting on
(30:36):
HRT which was very quicklyafter, but like that, it was
like a few months of a perfectstorm of
anxiety, insomnia person. Imean, I wasn't sleeping at all,
was the night sweats. I mean, Iwould go to bed. And I would
wake up in the middle of thenight soaked from head to toe,
(30:58):
like my clothes would look likeI went and took a shower in my
clothes. What can people saytalk about night sweats, because
that can happen with other andor I had maybe a few hot
flashes. You know, to me, itfeels like what I imagined, like
if a snake was squeezing you,and it kind of just goes hot all
the way up. And then it justkind of have a snake is creeping
(31:19):
you as rally.
queasy feeling all the way uphot, and then all of a sudden,
you're sweating.
Okay, and then it goes away. Butthe nice was the reason why I
think they woke me up was oncethey like, sweated whatever that
was, I was freezing because Istill put the fan on. And so it
(31:39):
was like, I would go to bed hotkick and stuff off and wake up.
I was freezing because I wassoaking wet. And that I guess
gave my doctor like even morelike, Yeah, we should probably
start you on something orwhatever.
Even though I had already kindof initiated like, yes. Because
I'm really ready to not feellike whatever I'm feeling. So I
(32:00):
feel like for me, it was morelike I knew myself. And I knew
enough medically, I had thatcontext, a little bit of
experience. And that, that I waslike, Yeah, I'm going to
advocate and say and I wastotally dismissed,
and then entered into like, adecade of real vulnerability of
(32:25):
new marriage to more kids andbabies at an older age and that
being tired and I was teachingand so I absolutely got lost in
the mix. And there was no buddyeven though I am someone who
gets my yearly exam gets myyearly physical.
That was saying to me at all,like, let's see what all we can
(32:47):
consider is what do you want toget into depressant? That was
like that was the option myinterests like, well, let's do
that. Let's let's put you on aflexors. And by that I said, I
don't feel like that's the rightfit for me. I don't feel like I
want to get on I don't. Becauselike you I can't explain it now
because I don't rememberexactly. But I just remember
feeling like that's not it.
(33:08):
And so I said no. Well justthink about whatever. And I also
see a psychiatrist regularly. Hedidn't know anything about
menopause or perimenopause,because yeah, he just as soon
you know, subscribed me likeKlonopin or something to go to
sleep. So I just, you know, it'sjust one of those things. And
these are people who are, youknow, in the medical field. And
so there's the hindsight oflike, just how many symptoms I
(33:34):
had, and just now and onlybecause I've we've gotten
support, and I've gottensupport, and they went away, and
I'm like, okay, I'm good. Thatwas it. That was it. And you
also have experienceddepression. You have Yes, it's
like I did, I did take theantidepressant.
(34:01):
And it was really helpful. And Ithink I had but it was my first
time using an SSRI andand it was really helpful and I
am really glad I took itI wonder if I hadn't if I had
already had an experience withit previously, if I would have
had an instinct like that aboutlike, Oh, I'm not sure that's
(34:22):
gonna quite hit it yet because Ihad just been on one between the
last two kids because I'vepostpartum so badly that I knew
exactly like what it felt liketo be that kind of disconnected.
i It was it was really hard todescribe but I yeah, I feel like
(34:46):
there's always a benefit oflike,
even knowing sometimes, if youdon't have like the
I don't know the strength, thecourage or the access to keep
going to somebody else and dolike, I need you to believe me.
(35:07):
Oh my gosh, just the brainpowerto like, find a somebody else
and make an appointment and goto what everyone thinks every
doctor, you know. So yeah, it's,it's easy to get lost. And let's
face it, no one's looking aroundat middle aged women like, what
can we do for you? Like, we seeyou, you know, how can we
support you? We have to kind ofeven for ourselves, you know,
(35:31):
like, so I think.
And you had just gone through itas well. And I think that
honestly, that was helpful. Ithink the progesterone
challenge, I'm sure you weretalking to at the time, but
honestly, I was so mentallygarbled up there.
Like when I say I would, I wouldjust lose words. I mean, I still
(35:53):
will lose a word or lose mytrain of thought every now and
then. But it was, like I said, II'm not exactly when I say when
I say I thought I was I'm goingto be someone who goes through
dementia really? I am. So yeah,and it's really disconcerting.
So I'm sure you were probablytalking to me, and I kind of
(36:14):
remember that I don't remember,it just feels like kind of a
blur? Well, yeah, and I didn'treally know a lot at that point,
like I did, at some point, learnsome things about how
neurodivergent people tend toexperience
hormonal fluctuations moreintensely. And that, and I
(36:36):
learned a lot about like, themenstrual cycle and how the
different hormones affectcognitive functioning. And so
why you feel a certain way atcertain points in your cycle.
And that was really helpful forme to understand a little late
because I didn't really how tocycle any point. But But I was
talking about a lot with clientsI was talking about, I think I
(36:58):
did a couple of differentpodcasts. I mean, I was talking
about it and thinking a lotabout the role of hormones in,
you know, how we feel and how wefunction. And I remember
I remember saying to you likeyou're perimenopausal like, this
is ridiculous. You're premenopausal.
(37:20):
Like, just take my word for it.
You don't need a medicalprofessional.
But I think it was also just areally overwhelming time in
history. And so I think, like, Ialso was like building a
business and you were writingyour memoir, and you were
leaving the teaching field andrecovering from likely burnout.
(37:43):
And there were just so manyother factors at the same time.
And I think that is one of thebig flags around perimenopause
and menopause is that it's atime in your life when lots of
other things are hitting thefan. Yeah. And and so I feel
like most people could probablyhave a story like that like, but
(38:05):
there were all these othermitigating factors that seemed
very plausible for why I washaving such a crescendo of all
of these things. And it's like,yes, but in hindsight, you can
really see, like, yeah, and allof those are overwhelming or
scary or hard or painful. Andalso this piece of it, of not
(38:30):
being able to cope in yourtypical ways, and having your
body under so much stress.
Someone recently said, I don't Iwish I knew where I saw this.
But someone said that themenopause transition in and of
itself is a trauma, it's atrauma in the potty. And I was
like, Yes, I agree. And itdoesn't necessarily mean that it
has to like land that way and bestored there and that you'll
(38:54):
have PTSD from it. But it isthis huge shift in how your body
functions and how it operates.
And it's not all bad. But a lotof it is confusing, and a lot of
it is unwelcome in the stage oflife that it happens in. And as
we as human beings start livinglonger, you know, your 40s your
(39:16):
50s There's just a lot ofvitality left in those decades.
And, and so even in your 60s,like there's just still so much
vitality, that I think this isone of those things that like
challenges your understanding ofyour own vitality, and it does
it in a time in your life. Whenyou're likely mid career or even
(39:37):
in the advanced parts of yourcareer. Maybe you're in higher
levels of leadership, or youhave like more complex
responsibilities. For a lot ofpeople. You've got kids who are
pubescent are pre pubescent.
That hasn't been the case for usbecause of the timing of
parenthood and one that wasolder but yeah, right but wasn't
pubescent. When you're goingthrough this Oh, that's true.
(40:00):
That's true. And so you get thatlike kind of double puberty
of like, oh, you're goingthrough all of this. And so is
your your kid?
I think awesome. Oh, sorry. Goahead. No, you go. I was just
thinking also too is one thingthat I've learned is that
there's support forperimenopause, two, I will say
when I got that call, surprised,your Hello, I actually wasn't I
(40:24):
was still Perry, I still had twomore periods after that. So the
thing about it is like, youknow, the diagnostics around all
of that is really so boils downto the person's experience and
what they name and there isstill, and I did start my
support at that point. And I wasstill technically Peri
menopausal, which opened up awhole other research for me,
(40:45):
which we'll talk about nextpodcast. But that this isn't
just about gripping on, youknow, and that's why we wanted
to talk about it is that we knowthat everyone's going to
experience it this way. We justdon't how we experienced it. And
if we can get anyone to getcurious about
is this something that may becontributing to like some of the
(41:07):
things that are going on mylife, then we want you to do
your own digging your ownresearch and all that other
stuff. But just to know to that,like, there are people out there
who havelike cultivated ways to support
that are trained in this. Andyou know, they're not selling
some like random supplement orwhatever. It's like there are
things out there that you can bein that you don't have to wait,
(41:31):
because I think for me, Ithought still had that messaging
all the way up to the end, thatI had to be menopausal, to get
the support that I wanted to getmy hormones back where they
needed to be. And now, we havediscovered that that's actually
not the case. So it's not likeoh, yeah, yeah, I'm a parent.
(41:51):
Thanks, Sara. And I know that Iam and this sucks, and thanks
for nothing, like thanks for theawareness. It's like, no, it's
like, if you are sensingchanges, if your cycle is
changing,then start talking to your
providers. And if your providersaren't open to those
conversations, find newproviders now, before you're
further along down this path. Soyou have really collaborative
(42:14):
and supportive providers who canhelp you make those decisions
along the way, when and if thoseare possible for you.
Okay, we're gonna talk moreabout that next time and maybe
some of the like, great thingsabout being postmenopausal,
because like, there are a fewthings that I'm like, Okay, I'm
(42:36):
not sad about that.
But we're, yeah, we're at time,so we got it. Yeah, we gotta go.
We gotta go to bed.
But thanks for starting thisconversation. And I'm so happy
to have it kind ofin one place because people ask
and I'm like, it's a lot. So nowthey can just listen. Yeah, and
for our kids and for Yeah, I'mjust happy to have it documented
(43:00):
in this way. Okay, so I'll talkto you later then. Love you,
buddy. Bye bye.
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