September 6, 2024 • 45 mins
Sometimes it feels like all of life is about decision making, so why do they feel so tricky? We're talking about all the things that come up when we need to make decisions and how to approach them with a somatic framework.
Sleepy Sisters podcast is hosted by Elizabeth Brink and Sarah Durham. This show is unedited and often unprepared for, so we hope you enjoy our resistance to perfection!
www.thrivingsistercoaching.com
www.kattywhompous.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:02):
Here we are again, the sleepy sisters. I actually am
sleepy today. I am too. I'vebeen yawning. I was at the bus
stop with with little and I waslike, ooh. Five seconds and I
was like, sorry, Paris. Justfeels so tired today. I do too.
I wonder if, if it's like,if there's something happening
(00:23):
with planets or something, Iknow why I'm tired. Oh okay, I'm
tired because the other sisterand I went to, oh yeah, spring's
place yesterday, right? That hadit makes me want to yawn, just
describingso it's a place that just opened
up a little while ago. They havesaunas, they have a cold plunge.
(00:47):
They have mineral like tubs thatare hot and warm and all these
different things. And I did myfirst cold plunge yesterday. How
was sure I cursed really loud,but I don't think anyone really
cared.
But I was I had to. It wasokay. It was
(01:13):
obviously cold, but I feel likeit was bearable.
And listen, I have a pretty highpain tolerance. I mean, I've had
some stuff I cuss because itobviously, it's has a moment of
not being bearable. But then,like, as I got into it, like,
(01:33):
within a few seconds, I waslike, Okay, if I had the right
mental headspace at this pointto do this, I could, and I
didn't. It was like, the lastthing that we did. And so I
think I was already like, but Idid feel good afterwards, and
the sauna felt really good. Oh,I hate saunas, but there's so
(01:54):
much stuff around how good theyare for you, I know. But, like,
I spend my whole life trying toavoid being sweaty. I know I was
in there. I was like, Elizabeth,like, it's it's hard to breathe.
It's hard to breathe. I'm havinga hard time just thinking about
it. I'm like, but back in a fewminutes, like,
there is this weird feeling thatkind of comes over. You're like,
(02:15):
Okay, I think I would do betternot with a sister in the tank
with me, because I want to talk,and it's really laborious trying
to talk and sit in like 170degrees. Oh yeah. I was like,
you know, asking maybe, and shenormally goes on her own. And I
(02:36):
thought, yeah, if I was aloneand kind of in that meditative
state, I think it would havebeen, like, I could have done
better with it. I just had afriend this morning asked me if
I would be interested in tryingcryotherapy. It's like a cold
plunge without the water. Youknow, I've heard of it. I've
never I was like, I'm I'm intoit, yeah, I'll try it. Yeah,
okay, I'll do the cold plunge.
I'm not doing that. Yeah. I waslike, cold. Sounds fantastic,
(02:59):
but, but she was also saying, Idon't really like the sauna
part. And I was like, no, why?
Why would you want to sweat? Iam, like, almost always a little
sweaty. Yeah. You're like, Ilive in a sauna. And I will say,
when I go my walks here inTexas, you know, in the summer,
I kind of get the saunaexperience. Yeah,
(03:22):
I would do it again. I would doit again. But anyway, it made me
really sleepy. But at the sametime, I stayed up past my
bedtime. Yeah, and being, youknow, a little older these days,
if I hit past, you know, thenine o'clock, 915 mark,
it's just, I don't I sleep mybest on the front end of the
(03:44):
night. So, yeah, just was alittle more wonky. But wow,
first world problems over here.
Well, interesting. Okay, we'regonna talk about decision
making. Oh yeah, I want to sayfirst, before we get into this,
that we could actually do 20episodes on decisions. Probably
yes. So we're not going to,we're not doing that. And so
just, you know, nuance. I don'tknow what part we're going to
(04:10):
talk about. We haven't decidedyet, but yeah, right, because we
don't prepare for this, andwe're not editing it. So what
you hear is what you get.
Okay, so decision making. I putthis on the list of topic ideas
for a reason, and then I forgotwhat the reason was.
So what I do know is thatdecision making comes up in
(04:35):
coaching a lot. And I wasthinking just before we got on
here, I was thinking about likeI have periods of time in my
life where I feel like all ofliving is making decisions,
and at the same time, makingdecisions feels so tricky, and
(04:55):
it's like you would think we'reso i.
Become accustomed to makingdecisions because we have to
make them all the time.
That it's interesting that whenfaced with certain ones or in
circum certain circumstances,it suddenly becomes this thing
that we feel like reallyunskilled at. I read something
(05:17):
that said we make like, 30something 1000 decisions a day a
day. And I thought, I don't,I would actively work against
that actually sounds like you'reliving a terrible life. Yeah,
no, that would be why Idissociate and play two dots.
(05:38):
I'm not looking to make thatmany decisions a day. Okay,
please. Why are that two dots?
Is decisions? Oh, yeah, it is.
Maybe I do make 50,000 decisionsa day. Hang it, but they're not
good one, but maybe it's like,turn left, turn right. You know,
which arm Am I gonna use? I'mnot really sure, because they're
so honest. Like, what are theycounting? I know. And then I saw
(05:59):
something about you make 70solid, like, good decisions a
day, like, you know, noteworthyor noteworthy, more sense,
right? Still, sounds like a lot,but 70,
well, I do know that it probablydepends on how many people
(06:21):
are in your sphere of influenceor care, if you're having to
care for others, for sure, yeah,because I definitely feel like,
by the time my work day starts,my second work day, I've
already, like, lived a life. Ohmy gosh. My husband gets up at
okay, on the weekend. Let's justgive it like a Saturday example,
(06:44):
he will sleep in till like nineo'clock, which, to me, is like
amazing, like noon, right? Howcan he goes to bed late? He's a
night owl, right? Okay, thatsounds like by nine o'clock in
the morning. Okay? I literallyhave lived a lifetime. I mean, I
have done so much that when hegets up,
(07:09):
it's, he's like, you know,yawning, whatever. And I'm
thinking, like, chop, chop.
Like, what's like? It's like,it's the next day. Yeah, I mean,
it's like, here's the agenda.
But then at the same time,by five o'clock at night, my
eyes are droopy. Six o'clock andI'm like, is it too early for me
to go lay in the bed, you know,but I am. I do work better in
the morning, but, yeah, I mean,I'm the same with you. By the
(07:32):
time I start with clients,getting the kids ready for
school, getting myself ready,you know, doing all the little
self care things I do in themorning,
all of that. Yeah, yeah. Well, alot of those decisions are front
loaded.
Yeah, I think about some of thechallenges that I've heard
(07:55):
people bring up in relationshipto decision making and like
their approaches to it, like, Iknow people that
they will wait until there arefewer and fewer options
available until they make adecision, and sometimes they'll
wait until there is literallyonly one option. So they, they,
(08:19):
I think in some sense, mightthink that they are keeping
themselves from making adecision because they just wait
until like, Oh, this is the onlything left that's possible,
but that is still kind of adecision that's made. It is, it
is, yeah. And then people whomake quick decisions, I
(08:39):
would consider myself in thatcategory. I actually like making
decisions. I've said this beforeabout myself, and I'm now just
saying it and testing. Is thattrue?
I do. I feel like I can be avery decisive person, and I like
the feeling of deciding. That'scool, I you know, and I could
say that about you, because I dothink that
(09:04):
the I think the more I seesomeone really being the
exercise that freedom ofdecision making, there is like
this correlation or thing ofbeing someone who is open to
Looking at it more asexperimentation and being
curious and open and that, likewhen you give yourself
(09:25):
permission in life to pivot orto repair or to do all of the
things that are on the otherside of decision, a lot you're
more practiced in that. I thinkthere is a lot more freedom. And
I think that you are someone whois like that.
Andkind of will roll with it, you
know. And maybe you develop thatbecause you were more impulsive
(09:47):
when you were younger, and so itwas like, Well, I better learn
how to, like, you know, right,the ship and, you know, my own
messes, yeah, but does that,yeah? It's so interesting
because I.
Had not thought about that, likeon the other side of decisions
impacting the relationship tothe decision itself, that like,
(10:08):
oh, well, am I really willing torisk this not going well? Am I
willing to risk needing to dosomething different or needing
to fix it? And I definitelythink that stuff through. I
think I am less impulsive inthat I think of impulsivity as
likedoing a thing, but not actually
thinking about it,just taking action. And I
(10:33):
definitely have thosetendencies, and certainly have
in the past,but I think I now would say that
I I think about decisions. I canmake quick decisions, but the
thinking happens. It's justquick, yeah, yeah, where I can,
like, play out the potentialscenario and the potential
(10:57):
outcomes and be like, Okay, thisis the one I'm most and some of
that's the giftedness. I mean,the patterns, the kind of the
interconnection of like, thescenario, the context, and being
able to do that in a like,swifter manner with your
experience, is some of that. Andthen being able to
(11:21):
take charge of that, make thedecision. And then I think,
coupled with yourtrauma, no, your self
compassion, I would say thatyou've worked on over the last
several years of, um, you know,the world's not going to swallow
me up. Yeah, I may beuncomfortable and all, but I'm
(11:41):
going to be okay. And,you know, I there's, like, all
of these rules about decisionmaking. And I've always said, I
don't even know where I got thisfrom, it's but I've always said
that, if you can be like, 60,70% sure, like you should just
go for it, right? No, the peoplethat are waiting to be 100% or
(12:05):
whatever, and I actually hadread a while ago that there is a
rule, I guess, that around 7040,to 70% is when you're supposed
to make a decision, that if youactually even wait till 90%
you're so stressed and fatiguedat that point, it slows you
down. And chances are you maynot make a decision, or you'll,
(12:26):
Oh, interesting. So that thereis, like, that self trust piece,
right? Supposed to plug in therest of the percentage. There's
a lot in that percentage, right?
That people, yes, reallystruggle with, well, yeah, and I
was thinking about, like thesomatic piece of it too, like in
the last,oh, guess, I guess six years
(12:49):
now, doing a lot of work to kindof befriend my nervous system
and my body andmy brain all these things, and
trying to like integrate thingsa little bit more has led to
a little bit less tension indecisions, because I think I
(13:14):
havea better sense of what yes and
no feels Like, and now I'mremembering that we had the
episode where we talked aboutlike that internal No, I think
the more that you get to knowwhat that feels like in your
body, the easier decisions get.
Even if the actual decisionitself is unpleasant or hard, it
(13:39):
is easier to move into that kindof hard when you know what
certainty feels like internally.
Yeah, I agree. I agree. I thinkone of the biggest
things I noticed the patternwith people like clients that
havetrouble making decisions, is
that a lot of times underneathit is that there's a lot of
(14:02):
awareness around what decisionneeds to be made, the time
frame, the logistics, butthere's not a ton of awareness
around really, what's getting inthe way, like, what information
don't I have? There's a lot ofassumptions on, like, the the
surface level of I don'tunderstand why I can't make this
decision, and, you know, I knowI need to do this, or I need to
(14:25):
do that, or whatever. I know Ihave this amount of information,
but there might be one smallpiece or one hard conversation
that they haven't tapped into,that awareness that their body
is responding to that's likewe're in danger girl making this
decision. And it's just sointeresting to watch clients
(14:48):
unravel that and realize, oh,there is this one piece I have
to actually talk to my ex about.
This one thing.
Or I have to make a call. Andthe only way to do it is I have
to make a call, you know? Imean, it's just little things
that, and when they realizethat, and they build that kind
(15:11):
of awareness, it's, it's usuallynot, what information do I need
to make the decision. It's like,what's the important pieces that
I don't have to make thedecision, yeah. And, like, what?
What are the barriers here?
Right, right, what's in my way?
And, and being, like, able tokind of actually zoom out and
scan for what's in the way andthink a little bit more about
(15:35):
all the layers of what could bein the way, like a resistance to
making phone calls or whatever,like, that's like a very common
well, and I think working withyou so much on the nervous
system stuff for the last fewyears, you know, it's a real
thing to be in high activationand to have the expectation that
(15:57):
you can make A logical decisionwhen you're in survival or
threat. And, I mean, you canmake decisions from those
places, butthere's it's usually not you
know end up. It doesn't end upbeing what you want, or it
doesn't feel right. It's notmatching your intuition. Well,
it's hard, because those placesin our in our experience, aren't
(16:20):
meant to include criticalthinking exactly they're meant
to be about survival. And Ithink the hard part is that so
many people are living in aconstant state of stress or
threat, and so then, then we seepatterns of burnout, right?
(16:42):
Because like, oh, I have to makedecisions. Even though I'm in
this state of I can't reallymake a decision, and I'm forcing
my brain and my whole body andsystem to kind of push and come
online to problem solve or workit out or do a thing, and at
some point, the body can't,yeah, because if you think about
(17:05):
making a decision, there are somany layers that you have to be
able to prioritize, plan, knowwhat the outcome? I mean,
there's so many different parts.
And so, like, I think we talkedabout last time, I think we
talked about this with bigtransitions. But you know, one
of the things when someonearound you that you you know
(17:28):
that's in your sphere, is havingtrouble making decisions, is
that they can borrow yourexecutive function. And
obviously that doesn't mean, oh,I'm making the decision for
them, but you can help them getit from their head, the spider
web right out onto paper orsomething to where they can find
a track of thought, and like,catch it and like, be able to
(17:49):
track it on something outside oftheir head. Because, especially
with neurodivergent folks, youknow, the spider web is just
like going in, a lot different.
And part of that too, sometimesI know for myself is when
sometimes I am stressed and Ineed to make a big decision or
whatever II know I have to get it out of
my head, but I also know me, andI know all of the layers that go
(18:13):
into a decision, and I might beable to
know what I want the outcome,but I don't know how to
necessarily break down the stepsin that moment because I'm
stressed or prioritized orwhatever. There's like, some
part that sometimes we can getwith a coach or a friend or a
(18:34):
partner or whatever where it'slike,
sit down with me, I need to makethis big decision. I kind of
know what I want, or I don'tknow what I want, and you can
just take one of those piecesout, you know, like,
and help kind of process onepart of that executive function
for them. So, you know,sometimes when we say borrow
(18:58):
executive function, we don'tmean like, do the thing, like,
make them, but more like, whatpart can I participate in to
kind of support you? Yeah? Like,can I guide and help? Like,
like, with one foot in front ofthe other? Yeah? Like, with,
with younger people, a lot oftimes it's about just breaking
(19:18):
down steps, because they don'thave a lot of practice doing
that. Oh, it's for me too, yeah,doing this project in the
basement, or trying to make itquasi livable space. And it's an
unfinished basement, so it's,you know?
Well, not everybody knows whatbasements are like. But anyway,
ours is unfinished, and so it'sconcrete floor and walls and
(19:42):
whatever. And we went down therelast weekend to start on this
next phase of things. And therewe had had some work done down
there, so stuff is really dusty,and there's just a lot of bugs
in basements. Yeah.
I know Sarah's making a face,yeah, so there, and I just like,
(20:04):
have a thing, right? Like, Ijust dirty and buggy. And I'm
like, Oh, these are two no's inmy body. And so we're down
there, and I just am feeling allthis constriction in my body of
just like, almost like a Freezyfeeling, just like I don't know
where to start. I don't know howto help. Because I have a huge
(20:29):
No, a huge don't want to and Ialso have an intellectual Yes, I
know where we're going. I dowant to get there, and I want to
help. And so anyway, I'mstanding there, and Corey just
looks at me, and he's like,there's some gloves right there,
(20:50):
if you want to use those. And Iwas like, I think this is
actually before we even wentdownstairs. I was just
envisioning the space, and therewere gloves, some of his work
gloves, and he's like, you canwear those. And I was like,
that's a good idea. And I feltlike a little release. And then
thethe night before, I had burned
the handle on a kitchen pan, andit smelled really, really bad,
(21:13):
like had neoprene or somethingon it. And so we had gotten
masks out, because me and one ofthe kids was like, really having
a problem with the smell of theburning was and so I had a mask
sitting there in front of me. Sohe's like, here, there's these
gloves. And then I and then itgot my brain loosened up, and I
was like, Oh, I'm gonna wear amask. And I felt like, I can go
downstairs now. And so we wentdownstairs and we worked, and it
(21:38):
was hard. I didn't like it, andalso I was really glad that we
did it.
But I think, you know, for me,sometimes I have moments,
especially with Corey, wherethere is a thing that needs to
get accomplished, and I have somany barriers internally that
(22:02):
it, I think historically, it'sjust felt easier to just be
like, I don't feel like doingthat right now. I don't want to
do that, or I don't really feelgood, or I have plans, or
whatever stomach hurts,which could be legitimate in
that moment, because my wholenervous system and body are
like, screeching to a halt,like, don't make me do it. And
the more I've gotten to knowwhat that feels like, the more
(22:26):
I've been able to kind ofpartner with it. But what's been
awesome is that he could see ithappening, like he could see
that I was stuck physically anddidn't say, like, I can see you
don't want to do this? Like, heknows I don't want to touch the
dirty stuff. I already told himthat. And so it was like, oh,
okay, let me just see if I can,like, make an offer. That's that
(22:49):
borrowing the executivefunction, just like, here's a
thing right nearby. Do you needa drink of water there? Here's
water, right? Oh, yeah, maybethat would help break up a
little bit of that Freezy kindof feeling when you're in the
midst of trying to, like, make adecision, right? And I think the
other piece of this is aroundlike people who just, like,
(23:11):
somatically, get stuck becauseof fear, because of uncertainty,
because of the discomfort of notknowing, right? And we've talked
about this a lot like howdifficult it is to tolerate the
discomfort of not knowing and toeven feel like your capacity for
that can grow. And I think in alot of ways, doing these like
(23:36):
little exercises where you'renoticing, like, where am I
having resistance to makingdecisions that feel like they
should be easy. I've categorizedthem as they should be easy.
Okay, let's start there, andjust notice what your body is
doing in response to thatdecision, and rather than
thinking about the decision infront of you, of like, what are
(23:58):
we going to have for dinnertonight, maybe just tune in to
noticing what's happening insideof me right now as this decision
is in front of me. Becausesometimes I think we focus on
the decision itself, and westart churning, and then panic
sets in around I need to makethis decision, and I can't. And
now self judgment, negativethoughts. It just like piles on
(24:20):
right and you've introduced tonsand tons of constriction into
your actual muscles and yourbody, which makes it really hard
to think. I think my number yousay my number one, I think
(24:40):
block as far as making decisionsis my brain is the excitability
piece with the most of my Freezymoments are around creatives
when I'm doing my drawing and mywriting or draft.
Up a presentation or somethinglike that, where I
(25:06):
am always, always concernedabout how many spoons I'm going
to spend,and is it worth it? Because I'm
already looking at the labor oflike, the whole picture of like,
my day in my life with my littleneurodivergent children and all
that other stuff. And I knowhistorically how I've shown up
(25:27):
when I'm maxed out.
It's not great, and that's somework I need to do, because I've
come a long way since then. Butthat kind of comes up that like
old kind of story sometimes, andI will get Freezy on
allowing myself to hyper focus,allowing myself and then if I
(25:50):
do, it's like, is this worth thetime? And so all of the sudden
I'll have, like, this day whereI've, like, set this aside to to
do these things,and I'll find myself just like
sitting there playing two dotsor watching something. And what
I've been doing lately is, allI've been thinking about is
(26:12):
Elizabeth,your voice saying, How can you
disrupt the pattern? So what Idecided to do the like in the
last like week or so, becauseI've had, I've specifically set
aside these days or chunks oftime to work on my writing and
to work on art and stuff likethat, or to work on, like, even
my dubsado platform, like I did,I was so proud of myself. Is I
(26:38):
am like, How can I disrupt thepattern? I change locations when
I did it and I had the TV on,but instead of having it like on
my iPad and trying to do on thecomputer, I take my iPad, which
is where I mostly do my drawingand stuff like that, and put it
on the big TV, and I'm not evenreally watching it, but there's
(26:58):
like, the little teenager mewho's like, I can't I'm watching
the show I want to watch, butI'm not really watching it. But
like, I'm alsolike, if I'm on my iPad,
obviously I can't do my art,right? So I'm like, you've got
to stop watching anything onyour iPad. It's off limits. No
more watching anything on youriPad. So I've changed locations
(27:20):
and done that, and I have donesomething every day
for some amount of time in thatspace, and I've allowed it to be
small, because I'm like, We'redisrupting a pattern. We're
changing like, this story oflike, you showing up at your
desk, which you love, and it'sall cozy for clients. But when
(27:42):
you go to do this other thing,you know what? You're not really
showing up for that, it's like,I'm here. I'm doing it one way.
So, so far, it's working. That'sawesome. It is awesome. But I
think that that is, like, kindof My new motto right now with
around my self awarenesspatterns
is, I know this about myself,because one of the things
(28:04):
clients say, I say this everyoneI know it's like, Why do I keep
doing the same thing over andover, but then, like, I'm
setting up life and situationsin the same way, because that's
what my brain wants, you know,whatever. And I'm just like, How
can I disrupt the pattern, whichfeels so safe to me, because it
feels like a micro step, youknow? Yeah, because what you're
(28:27):
wanting to do is disrupt thepattern as far away from the
actual, like pivotal point inthe pattern as possible. So
you're not wanting to disruptthe pattern of, how do I when
I'm in the middle of being zonedout and watching a show and
playing two dots, how do I makemyself stop that's not going to
(28:48):
work. You're saying, How do Idisrupt the pattern? Can I even
know what the pattern is longbefore that happens, so that the
pattern's disrupted way earlieron before it's like, stronger,
right? And and then justexperimenting with it and
seeing, like, does this make iteasier for me to make decisions
(29:10):
about what I'm doing with mytime? Yeah, and the other thing
is, is, if I have to do on mybig computer, I am before I get
I've decided that before I getto the time the
that I've allotted for thatin the morning, I'm writing down
just a couple of mini goals thatfeel like really doable, like
(29:33):
with debsada, which is, which islike a CRM or whatever, which is
likejust a client, honestly, system.
I lately, when I've been lookingat working out, I'm like, this
isn't that complicated, but Ihad made it a monster in my
mind.
And so do, yes, but I'm justdoing little parts at a time and
(29:56):
and allowing myself, givingmyself permission to do that.
And realizing, even though Iknew this intellectually, but
like in my body, realizing, wow,when I look back at my week and
I've made all of these steps andprogress towards it, even if
it's not done, there is afeeling and a momentum in there
of like, okay, I am makingprogress more than if I sit with
(30:19):
that more, all or nothing,thinking like, I would just want
to get the whole thing done intwo days. Done in two days. I
that hasn't worked for a year,right? So I don't know, yay me
patting myself on the back, andI'm just proud of that so
and another thing around bigtransitions too, was talking to
the eldest this morningand reminding him, like, how can
(30:41):
you disrupt? You know, thepattern of, like, this is kind
of, he's kind of in his littlelike pattern. And I left him
with that I didn't, like,suggest anything, but I don't,
that's my nugget for the week, Iguess. Yeah, I love it. And I
think it's, it's helpful tobring that in and thinking about
(31:01):
decision making, because I dothink that a lot of us are stuck
in patterns around how weapproach decisions. Yes, you
know, and like the clients thatI've had, tell me, I just wait
until the options aren't there,and I don't want to do it like
that anymore.
I'm missing opportunities when Ido that. And it's like, okay,
(31:26):
it's, it's not as simple as,like, Okay, we'll just stop
doing that. Make the decisionsooner. It's like, there's so
much more happening in your bodythat you could be approaching
that would help soften that,right? And that, like, over time
you would notice, oh, I'm notwaiting until there's only one
(31:47):
option left. I'm waiting untilthere's two options left. Like,
that's improvement, yeah, thehow you make decisions is that
your own process is no joke. Imean, so many times I have
college students or young adultsdon't know how to make
decisions? Well, yeah, becauseyour processes change, it's
going to look different whenyou're in high school and you're
under your parents roof, how youmake decisions, and then now you
(32:10):
have this, like, exponentiallymore autonomy, and all these
other different things anddifferent types of constraints,
like understanding your processis a big deal. I will say one of
the biggest sources of tensionat my house is on the nights
I've decided tonight's gonna benight we're gonna eat something
out is,well, well, besides the fact
(32:34):
that my kids don't like anythingto eat, this should be the easy
thing, right? I'm not cooking.
Joshua's not cooking. We get topick some place fun to eat and
blah. Well, for so long, Ishowed up to that process the
same way and beat my headagainst the wall every single
time. What do you guys want toeat tonight? What? What this is
(32:58):
like parenting 101, I'm askingthem, yeah, well, I don't. I
want the new part. They're oldernow, so yeah, you know, I want
them to they also have, like,sensory stuff, so I want to
include them in it. But it wasnot working. They would end up I
want this. I want that they'rethinking very one track mind,
(33:19):
the first thing pops up in theirhead that sounds good to them.
And so we it was getting to thepoint where I was like, I'm not
going to ask. I told Josh, I'mnot going to ask them about
eating out anymore, because thewhole point is to take labor off
the two of us so we're notcooking, and this is more labor.
And then it's like, whatever. Sothis is y'all, I'm not gonna
(33:41):
like this is win any awards forthis. This is really basic. All
we did was now we asked themeach, individually, separate
from each other, the top threethings they would really be
excited or feel good abouteating tonight. And then we go
and we look at kind of thematchup of like, okay, so you
(34:04):
set a chicken place, they set adifferent chicken place. Usually
they'll match up on the chickenplace or whatever. But instead
of, like, the one thing, I mean,I was setting myself up for
failure every time, but I justkept showing up and doing it the
same way.
Yeah, yeah. And I don't evenknow what made me change my
mind. I mean, Joshua and I juststarted doing it. I don't
(34:25):
remember the conversation, butjust examining those things, of
like, where is their tensionevery time, and is it the
decision, or is it the process?
Yeah, yeah. And, and how you'reshowing up in the process, or
how the other people involvedare showing up and realizing, I
mean, we, a long time ago,stopped making dinner with the
(34:47):
kids in mind, yeah, yeah,because we just weren't eating
anything we were enjoying. Andit was like, You know what? They
are not going to eat, what weeat, and we're going to offer
it, and if they.
Like it and want it great. Thereare very few things we make that
they like, that we're making forus. And
(35:09):
so I think also just kind oflike resolving myself to there
are even times where we orderout for us and I am still making
them dinner. Yeah, then I amlike saying, not asking them
what they want for the mostpart. And there's like, five
things we're picking from, andit's everybody's happy,
everybody's fed, and everybody'shappy. And, yeah, we had this
(35:30):
conversation this morning,because it's a Friday, and it
was like, What are we going toeat for dinner? I hate this
conversation. I hate it if Inever had to decide on a meal
again. I mean, I want to decide,because I want to eat, what I
want to eat. But like, if I forme, I want to decide labor of
dinner is so I feel like thisabout every meal. But I, I, I
(35:52):
was like, Well, I'm thinking, Iwant Thai food. Sounds good, but
pizza sounds easy, because if weget Thai food, they might eat
it. We might have to make themsomething separate. If we get
pizza, they will eat it. But itdoesn't sound that good to me.
It's just like, yeah, so I'm notgoing to make a decision. I'll
talk to you later. It was like,you know, I still have, I have
(36:15):
to decide what I really want.
Yeah, and like, right? It'sprioritizing. I do you want the
yummiest thing, or do you wantthe least labor? You have to
make a choice between those twothings. It's not Thai or pizza.
It's like, do I make a secondsecond dinner, or do I really
get my sensory delightsatisfied? That's totally it.
Yeah. Like a really terribledecision. Yeah, sometimes I will
(36:37):
say that Joshua would never dothis, but I do this often. I
would say often, but every oncein a while, I just can't eat
raising canes one more time, Ijust can do it. And there's a
sandwich shop over there. It'slike, right next door. And so I
just get myself what I want, andI just go pick up the curbside
(36:59):
what they want. And he's like,that's too much work. I'm like,
it's actually,I'm totally fine with it. It's
right next door. It's really,like, it's two extra steps or
whatever, and I get something Ireally want to eat. You know,
I'm not gonna drive all over thecity. I think that's awesome.
That is one of the gifts ofliving in a super convenient we
(37:21):
don't have that here, but, Ithink, but, but having that
sense of like I'm making adecision about a meal, and it's
getting complicated, because weall have complicated eating
habits and preferences. And theother night I did that where I
basically, like, the kids hadleftover chili. It's one of the
(37:45):
few things they like, I cannotreally have chili right now, and
soand Corey can make his own meal.
So I was like, Okay, there'sleftover chili. I made the kids
a plate, and I was like, I can'teat chili, nor do it, does it
sound good? And I made myselfeggs and toast and like, I mean,
sometimes I love breakfast, metoo. Sometimes I do feel like a
(38:08):
short order cook. And I knowthere's all these parents out
there, like, you know, listen,Joshua cooks for him, and I most
days of the week. And weird,same thing. We're not really
keeping them in mind. There's acouple of things that like Sam
will really like, or Nora mighteat a little bit of, but for the
most part, they have somethingseparate. We have staples and
(38:30):
things here that like, you know,they'll want to eat, you know,
like, Sam's on a breakfastburrito kick right now, with
eggs and bacon and cheese. I'mlike, fine, whatever could eat
that every day, great.
And, you know, I really had tokind of come to terms with some
of that, of like, you know, Imake it easy on myself, but
(38:54):
there is going to be separatedinners. There's going to be a
different and I know some peoplelike you just put it in front of
them and eat it, not my kids.
Well, with that, we had thatconversation this week, and I
think that is one of thedecisions that I have made about
my parenting. Yeah, me too, thatI am not going to require my
(39:16):
kids to eat what's put in frontof them that was required of me,
and I just, like, for the mostpart, it was fine, but it just
doesn't feel good to me. Yeah, Idabble in, like, okay, these are
the areas in which, like, I knowthey'll always eat a grilled
(39:37):
burger, yeah, or something alongthose lines, and I will just not
ask them and just cook it. Andif they don't want to eat it,
like they know, options of whatthey can make for themselves, or
there's, like, other things,it's not going to be the same
quality of meal, I'll be honest.
Like, I'm not going to, like,make a second amazing meal or
(39:58):
whatever. Or Josh was not but.
But,um, my Well, my kids, I speak
for them. School is a lot, andI'm just not going to add that
onto their little brains whenthey come home and
it's a battle that just doesn'tfeel worth it knowing them,
(40:20):
yeah, well, you know, andknowing that, like, I have kids
who just won't eat right, orwon't eat enough, like maybe,
like Nora would eat a piece offruit or whatever, but I just it
feels, and I'm not dogginganyone does this, because for
every time I say this, I willhave someone who says, Oh, my,
(40:41):
not me. I just put everythingout there. My kids will eat it.
And if you just do that, I'mlike, I'm telling you right now,
and this is not anything expertadvice or not, but I'm telling
you they probably would haveeaten it anyway. They're just
not Oh, yeah. Like, that's neverworked with my kids. Yeah. Tried
that from the time they werevery little. Yes, we're giving
them Indian food and Thai foodand all kinds of different
(41:05):
cuisine. And they, for the mostpart, they will try stuff, but
no, they do not eat anythingthat's put in front of them. And
I will say, the more, especiallymy middle is taxed and stressed.
The more it comes out in hisfood choices, the smaller his
menu gets. So, you know, he'sgot other like, sensory stuff
(41:31):
there. That's a little more, Iguess, acute. So, yeah, I feel
that too. I mean, yeah, I'mgonna be honest. I've been
eating cereal for lunch forlike, two or three weeks now,
all this back to school and backto work. It's great. I don't
feel bad about as I love it,some frosted mini wheat knots
offs or whatever from Aldi. It'sgood. It's going like, I don't
(41:53):
care, yeah, and I thinkreleasing a lot of that, and to
me, what I'm just thinking ofwith the kids having the ability
to like, not eat what's put infront of them is a privilege. It
is not something that happens inmost of the rest of the world,
for sure, andthere is this space to say this
is part of what it looks likewhen your kids are being given
(42:16):
the tools to know if they wantsomething or not, or if they
like something or not, which issome of the building blocks of
them being good decision makersfor themselves all along the way
and down the line. And it itfeels hard in the moment to
reconcile that, but I do believethat for most of us who struggle
(42:38):
with making decisions. Itstarted very young, and it
started with a lot of feedbackthat shaped how we interact with
choice and how we interact withmaking decisions. And yeah, I
just, I mean, why do you thinkthere's all these memes about
the boyfriend asking thegirlfriend what she wants to
eat, and she's like, I don'tcare. I don't whatever. There's
(43:00):
always, you know? I mean, peopleare always making that into a
joke. Well, I mean, if we wantto go too, you know, deep, it's
like, okay, well, guess what?
Women are silenced from veryyoung age about having really
strong opinions about things,right? And the decisions they
make around food and all theseother things and and socially is
(43:23):
watched and micromanaged andjudged. And so it's like ask,
it's a loaded Yes, a 16 year oldgirl what she wants to eat on a
date? Guess what it's that's aloaded question. I mean, it is
for a lot of girls, because theyare Yeah, unless she's been in
an environment where she's beenencouraged to pick what she
(43:43):
likes and what she actuallywants. And, yeah, yeah, yeah,
okay. We talked a lot aboutmeals. Hopefully it was a
helpful little petri dish ofsome of how the like real life
in the moment, decision making,stuff, I think comes to play.
It's not always just like thesebig, huge decisions, which is a
(44:05):
whole other topic around what isyour decision making process?
How do you approach things? Whatyou know, there's all kinds of
methods and stuff, but, oh yeah,it's
important to acknowledge thatdecision making is hard. We're
required to do it a lot, andit's okay to acknowledge that
(44:26):
you have some fatigue from it,and that in certain seasons,
especially in big transitions,decisions feel harder, even
simple ones, and all the stressand all the self condemnation
over why can't I make adecision? Or what's the is
adding to the it's not making iteasier to make the decision.
(44:48):
Noticing that the decision isfeeling hard, and just letting
it feel hard for a minute mightbe part of what helps you loosen
it up. Yeah, yeah. I have moreto say.
But I don't think I'm gonnaOkay, but just because, I mean,
you know, get off on a tangentbecause we're tired. And yeah,
okay, all right. Well, thanksfor hanging out. Yep, Love you.
(45:10):
Love you too. Bye.
Here we are again, the sleepy sisters. I actually am
sleepy today. I am too. I'vebeen yawning. I was at the bus
stop with with little and I waslike, ooh. Five seconds and I
was like, sorry, Paris. Justfeels so tired today. I do too.
I wonder if, if it's like,if there's something happening
(00:23):
with planets or something, Iknow why I'm tired. Oh okay, I'm
tired because the other sisterand I went to, oh yeah, spring's
place yesterday, right? That hadit makes me want to yawn, just
describingso it's a place that just opened
up a little while ago. They havesaunas, they have a cold plunge.
(00:47):
They have mineral like tubs thatare hot and warm and all these
different things. And I did myfirst cold plunge yesterday. How
was sure I cursed really loud,but I don't think anyone really
cared.
But I was I had to. It wasokay. It was
(01:13):
obviously cold, but I feel likeit was bearable.
And listen, I have a pretty highpain tolerance. I mean, I've had
some stuff I cuss because itobviously, it's has a moment of
not being bearable. But then,like, as I got into it, like,
(01:33):
within a few seconds, I waslike, Okay, if I had the right
mental headspace at this pointto do this, I could, and I
didn't. It was like, the lastthing that we did. And so I
think I was already like, but Idid feel good afterwards, and
the sauna felt really good. Oh,I hate saunas, but there's so
(01:54):
much stuff around how good theyare for you, I know. But, like,
I spend my whole life trying toavoid being sweaty. I know I was
in there. I was like, Elizabeth,like, it's it's hard to breathe.
It's hard to breathe. I'm havinga hard time just thinking about
it. I'm like, but back in a fewminutes, like,
there is this weird feeling thatkind of comes over. You're like,
(02:15):
Okay, I think I would do betternot with a sister in the tank
with me, because I want to talk,and it's really laborious trying
to talk and sit in like 170degrees. Oh yeah. I was like,
you know, asking maybe, and shenormally goes on her own. And I
(02:36):
thought, yeah, if I was aloneand kind of in that meditative
state, I think it would havebeen, like, I could have done
better with it. I just had afriend this morning asked me if
I would be interested in tryingcryotherapy. It's like a cold
plunge without the water. Youknow, I've heard of it. I've
never I was like, I'm I'm intoit, yeah, I'll try it. Yeah,
okay, I'll do the cold plunge.
I'm not doing that. Yeah. I waslike, cold. Sounds fantastic,
(02:59):
but, but she was also saying, Idon't really like the sauna
part. And I was like, no, why?
Why would you want to sweat? Iam, like, almost always a little
sweaty. Yeah. You're like, Ilive in a sauna. And I will say,
when I go my walks here inTexas, you know, in the summer,
I kind of get the saunaexperience. Yeah,
(03:22):
I would do it again. I would doit again. But anyway, it made me
really sleepy. But at the sametime, I stayed up past my
bedtime. Yeah, and being, youknow, a little older these days,
if I hit past, you know, thenine o'clock, 915 mark,
it's just, I don't I sleep mybest on the front end of the
(03:44):
night. So, yeah, just was alittle more wonky. But wow,
first world problems over here.
Well, interesting. Okay, we'regonna talk about decision
making. Oh yeah, I want to sayfirst, before we get into this,
that we could actually do 20episodes on decisions. Probably
yes. So we're not going to,we're not doing that. And so
just, you know, nuance. I don'tknow what part we're going to
(04:10):
talk about. We haven't decidedyet, but yeah, right, because we
don't prepare for this, andwe're not editing it. So what
you hear is what you get.
Okay, so decision making. I putthis on the list of topic ideas
for a reason, and then I forgotwhat the reason was.
So what I do know is thatdecision making comes up in
(04:35):
coaching a lot. And I wasthinking just before we got on
here, I was thinking about likeI have periods of time in my
life where I feel like all ofliving is making decisions,
and at the same time, makingdecisions feels so tricky, and
(04:55):
it's like you would think we'reso i.
Become accustomed to makingdecisions because we have to
make them all the time.
That it's interesting that whenfaced with certain ones or in
circum certain circumstances,it suddenly becomes this thing
that we feel like reallyunskilled at. I read something
(05:17):
that said we make like, 30something 1000 decisions a day a
day. And I thought, I don't,I would actively work against
that actually sounds like you'reliving a terrible life. Yeah,
no, that would be why Idissociate and play two dots.
(05:38):
I'm not looking to make thatmany decisions a day. Okay,
please. Why are that two dots?
Is decisions? Oh, yeah, it is.
Maybe I do make 50,000 decisionsa day. Hang it, but they're not
good one, but maybe it's like,turn left, turn right. You know,
which arm Am I gonna use? I'mnot really sure, because they're
so honest. Like, what are theycounting? I know. And then I saw
(05:59):
something about you make 70solid, like, good decisions a
day, like, you know, noteworthyor noteworthy, more sense,
right? Still, sounds like a lot,but 70,
well, I do know that it probablydepends on how many people
(06:21):
are in your sphere of influenceor care, if you're having to
care for others, for sure, yeah,because I definitely feel like,
by the time my work day starts,my second work day, I've
already, like, lived a life. Ohmy gosh. My husband gets up at
okay, on the weekend. Let's justgive it like a Saturday example,
(06:44):
he will sleep in till like nineo'clock, which, to me, is like
amazing, like noon, right? Howcan he goes to bed late? He's a
night owl, right? Okay, thatsounds like by nine o'clock in
the morning. Okay? I literallyhave lived a lifetime. I mean, I
have done so much that when hegets up,
(07:09):
it's, he's like, you know,yawning, whatever. And I'm
thinking, like, chop, chop.
Like, what's like? It's like,it's the next day. Yeah, I mean,
it's like, here's the agenda.
But then at the same time,by five o'clock at night, my
eyes are droopy. Six o'clock andI'm like, is it too early for me
to go lay in the bed, you know,but I am. I do work better in
the morning, but, yeah, I mean,I'm the same with you. By the
(07:32):
time I start with clients,getting the kids ready for
school, getting myself ready,you know, doing all the little
self care things I do in themorning,
all of that. Yeah, yeah. Well, alot of those decisions are front
loaded.
Yeah, I think about some of thechallenges that I've heard
(07:55):
people bring up in relationshipto decision making and like
their approaches to it, like, Iknow people that
they will wait until there arefewer and fewer options
available until they make adecision, and sometimes they'll
wait until there is literallyonly one option. So they, they,
(08:19):
I think in some sense, mightthink that they are keeping
themselves from making adecision because they just wait
until like, Oh, this is the onlything left that's possible,
but that is still kind of adecision that's made. It is, it
is, yeah. And then people whomake quick decisions, I
(08:39):
would consider myself in thatcategory. I actually like making
decisions. I've said this beforeabout myself, and I'm now just
saying it and testing. Is thattrue?
I do. I feel like I can be avery decisive person, and I like
the feeling of deciding. That'scool, I you know, and I could
say that about you, because I dothink that
(09:04):
the I think the more I seesomeone really being the
exercise that freedom ofdecision making, there is like
this correlation or thing ofbeing someone who is open to
Looking at it more asexperimentation and being
curious and open and that, likewhen you give yourself
(09:25):
permission in life to pivot orto repair or to do all of the
things that are on the otherside of decision, a lot you're
more practiced in that. I thinkthere is a lot more freedom. And
I think that you are someone whois like that.
Andkind of will roll with it, you
know. And maybe you develop thatbecause you were more impulsive
(09:47):
when you were younger, and so itwas like, Well, I better learn
how to, like, you know, right,the ship and, you know, my own
messes, yeah, but does that,yeah? It's so interesting
because I.
Had not thought about that, likeon the other side of decisions
impacting the relationship tothe decision itself, that like,
(10:08):
oh, well, am I really willing torisk this not going well? Am I
willing to risk needing to dosomething different or needing
to fix it? And I definitelythink that stuff through. I
think I am less impulsive inthat I think of impulsivity as
likedoing a thing, but not actually
thinking about it,just taking action. And I
(10:33):
definitely have thosetendencies, and certainly have
in the past,but I think I now would say that
I I think about decisions. I canmake quick decisions, but the
thinking happens. It's justquick, yeah, yeah, where I can,
like, play out the potentialscenario and the potential
(10:57):
outcomes and be like, Okay, thisis the one I'm most and some of
that's the giftedness. I mean,the patterns, the kind of the
interconnection of like, thescenario, the context, and being
able to do that in a like,swifter manner with your
experience, is some of that. Andthen being able to
(11:21):
take charge of that, make thedecision. And then I think,
coupled with yourtrauma, no, your self
compassion, I would say thatyou've worked on over the last
several years of, um, you know,the world's not going to swallow
me up. Yeah, I may beuncomfortable and all, but I'm
(11:41):
going to be okay. And,you know, I there's, like, all
of these rules about decisionmaking. And I've always said, I
don't even know where I got thisfrom, it's but I've always said
that, if you can be like, 60,70% sure, like you should just
go for it, right? No, the peoplethat are waiting to be 100% or
(12:05):
whatever, and I actually hadread a while ago that there is a
rule, I guess, that around 7040,to 70% is when you're supposed
to make a decision, that if youactually even wait till 90%
you're so stressed and fatiguedat that point, it slows you
down. And chances are you maynot make a decision, or you'll,
(12:26):
Oh, interesting. So that thereis, like, that self trust piece,
right? Supposed to plug in therest of the percentage. There's
a lot in that percentage, right?
That people, yes, reallystruggle with, well, yeah, and I
was thinking about, like thesomatic piece of it too, like in
the last,oh, guess, I guess six years
(12:49):
now, doing a lot of work to kindof befriend my nervous system
and my body andmy brain all these things, and
trying to like integrate thingsa little bit more has led to
a little bit less tension indecisions, because I think I
(13:14):
havea better sense of what yes and
no feels Like, and now I'mremembering that we had the
episode where we talked aboutlike that internal No, I think
the more that you get to knowwhat that feels like in your
body, the easier decisions get.
Even if the actual decisionitself is unpleasant or hard, it
(13:39):
is easier to move into that kindof hard when you know what
certainty feels like internally.
Yeah, I agree. I agree. I thinkone of the biggest
things I noticed the patternwith people like clients that
havetrouble making decisions, is
that a lot of times underneathit is that there's a lot of
(14:02):
awareness around what decisionneeds to be made, the time
frame, the logistics, butthere's not a ton of awareness
around really, what's getting inthe way, like, what information
don't I have? There's a lot ofassumptions on, like, the the
surface level of I don'tunderstand why I can't make this
decision, and, you know, I knowI need to do this, or I need to
(14:25):
do that, or whatever. I know Ihave this amount of information,
but there might be one smallpiece or one hard conversation
that they haven't tapped into,that awareness that their body
is responding to that's likewe're in danger girl making this
decision. And it's just sointeresting to watch clients
(14:48):
unravel that and realize, oh,there is this one piece I have
to actually talk to my ex about.
This one thing.
Or I have to make a call. Andthe only way to do it is I have
to make a call, you know? Imean, it's just little things
that, and when they realizethat, and they build that kind
(15:11):
of awareness, it's, it's usuallynot, what information do I need
to make the decision. It's like,what's the important pieces that
I don't have to make thedecision, yeah. And, like, what?
What are the barriers here?
Right, right, what's in my way?
And, and being, like, able tokind of actually zoom out and
scan for what's in the way andthink a little bit more about
(15:35):
all the layers of what could bein the way, like a resistance to
making phone calls or whatever,like, that's like a very common
well, and I think working withyou so much on the nervous
system stuff for the last fewyears, you know, it's a real
thing to be in high activationand to have the expectation that
(15:57):
you can make A logical decisionwhen you're in survival or
threat. And, I mean, you canmake decisions from those
places, butthere's it's usually not you
know end up. It doesn't end upbeing what you want, or it
doesn't feel right. It's notmatching your intuition. Well,
it's hard, because those placesin our in our experience, aren't
(16:20):
meant to include criticalthinking exactly they're meant
to be about survival. And Ithink the hard part is that so
many people are living in aconstant state of stress or
threat, and so then, then we seepatterns of burnout, right?
(16:42):
Because like, oh, I have to makedecisions. Even though I'm in
this state of I can't reallymake a decision, and I'm forcing
my brain and my whole body andsystem to kind of push and come
online to problem solve or workit out or do a thing, and at
some point, the body can't,yeah, because if you think about
(17:05):
making a decision, there are somany layers that you have to be
able to prioritize, plan, knowwhat the outcome? I mean,
there's so many different parts.
And so, like, I think we talkedabout last time, I think we
talked about this with bigtransitions. But you know, one
of the things when someonearound you that you you know
(17:28):
that's in your sphere, is havingtrouble making decisions, is
that they can borrow yourexecutive function. And
obviously that doesn't mean, oh,I'm making the decision for
them, but you can help them getit from their head, the spider
web right out onto paper orsomething to where they can find
a track of thought, and like,catch it and like, be able to
(17:49):
track it on something outside oftheir head. Because, especially
with neurodivergent folks, youknow, the spider web is just
like going in, a lot different.
And part of that too, sometimesI know for myself is when
sometimes I am stressed and Ineed to make a big decision or
whatever II know I have to get it out of
my head, but I also know me, andI know all of the layers that go
(18:13):
into a decision, and I might beable to
know what I want the outcome,but I don't know how to
necessarily break down the stepsin that moment because I'm
stressed or prioritized orwhatever. There's like, some
part that sometimes we can getwith a coach or a friend or a
(18:34):
partner or whatever where it'slike,
sit down with me, I need to makethis big decision. I kind of
know what I want, or I don'tknow what I want, and you can
just take one of those piecesout, you know, like,
and help kind of process onepart of that executive function
for them. So, you know,sometimes when we say borrow
(18:58):
executive function, we don'tmean like, do the thing, like,
make them, but more like, whatpart can I participate in to
kind of support you? Yeah? Like,can I guide and help? Like,
like, with one foot in front ofthe other? Yeah? Like, with,
with younger people, a lot oftimes it's about just breaking
(19:18):
down steps, because they don'thave a lot of practice doing
that. Oh, it's for me too, yeah,doing this project in the
basement, or trying to make itquasi livable space. And it's an
unfinished basement, so it's,you know?
Well, not everybody knows whatbasements are like. But anyway,
ours is unfinished, and so it'sconcrete floor and walls and
(19:42):
whatever. And we went down therelast weekend to start on this
next phase of things. And therewe had had some work done down
there, so stuff is really dusty,and there's just a lot of bugs
in basements. Yeah.
I know Sarah's making a face,yeah, so there, and I just like,
(20:04):
have a thing, right? Like, Ijust dirty and buggy. And I'm
like, Oh, these are two no's inmy body. And so we're down
there, and I just am feeling allthis constriction in my body of
just like, almost like a Freezyfeeling, just like I don't know
where to start. I don't know howto help. Because I have a huge
(20:29):
No, a huge don't want to and Ialso have an intellectual Yes, I
know where we're going. I dowant to get there, and I want to
help. And so anyway, I'mstanding there, and Corey just
looks at me, and he's like,there's some gloves right there,
(20:50):
if you want to use those. And Iwas like, I think this is
actually before we even wentdownstairs. I was just
envisioning the space, and therewere gloves, some of his work
gloves, and he's like, you canwear those. And I was like,
that's a good idea. And I feltlike a little release. And then
thethe night before, I had burned
the handle on a kitchen pan, andit smelled really, really bad,
(21:13):
like had neoprene or somethingon it. And so we had gotten
masks out, because me and one ofthe kids was like, really having
a problem with the smell of theburning was and so I had a mask
sitting there in front of me. Sohe's like, here, there's these
gloves. And then I and then itgot my brain loosened up, and I
was like, Oh, I'm gonna wear amask. And I felt like, I can go
downstairs now. And so we wentdownstairs and we worked, and it
(21:38):
was hard. I didn't like it, andalso I was really glad that we
did it.
But I think, you know, for me,sometimes I have moments,
especially with Corey, wherethere is a thing that needs to
get accomplished, and I have somany barriers internally that
(22:02):
it, I think historically, it'sjust felt easier to just be
like, I don't feel like doingthat right now. I don't want to
do that, or I don't really feelgood, or I have plans, or
whatever stomach hurts,which could be legitimate in
that moment, because my wholenervous system and body are
like, screeching to a halt,like, don't make me do it. And
the more I've gotten to knowwhat that feels like, the more
(22:26):
I've been able to kind ofpartner with it. But what's been
awesome is that he could see ithappening, like he could see
that I was stuck physically anddidn't say, like, I can see you
don't want to do this? Like, heknows I don't want to touch the
dirty stuff. I already told himthat. And so it was like, oh,
okay, let me just see if I can,like, make an offer. That's that
(22:49):
borrowing the executivefunction, just like, here's a
thing right nearby. Do you needa drink of water there? Here's
water, right? Oh, yeah, maybethat would help break up a
little bit of that Freezy kindof feeling when you're in the
midst of trying to, like, make adecision, right? And I think the
other piece of this is aroundlike people who just, like,
(23:11):
somatically, get stuck becauseof fear, because of uncertainty,
because of the discomfort of notknowing, right? And we've talked
about this a lot like howdifficult it is to tolerate the
discomfort of not knowing and toeven feel like your capacity for
that can grow. And I think in alot of ways, doing these like
(23:36):
little exercises where you'renoticing, like, where am I
having resistance to makingdecisions that feel like they
should be easy. I've categorizedthem as they should be easy.
Okay, let's start there, andjust notice what your body is
doing in response to thatdecision, and rather than
thinking about the decision infront of you, of like, what are
(23:58):
we going to have for dinnertonight, maybe just tune in to
noticing what's happening insideof me right now as this decision
is in front of me. Becausesometimes I think we focus on
the decision itself, and westart churning, and then panic
sets in around I need to makethis decision, and I can't. And
now self judgment, negativethoughts. It just like piles on
(24:20):
right and you've introduced tonsand tons of constriction into
your actual muscles and yourbody, which makes it really hard
to think. I think my number yousay my number one, I think
(24:40):
block as far as making decisionsis my brain is the excitability
piece with the most of my Freezymoments are around creatives
when I'm doing my drawing and mywriting or draft.
Up a presentation or somethinglike that, where I
(25:06):
am always, always concernedabout how many spoons I'm going
to spend,and is it worth it? Because I'm
already looking at the labor oflike, the whole picture of like,
my day in my life with my littleneurodivergent children and all
that other stuff. And I knowhistorically how I've shown up
(25:27):
when I'm maxed out.
It's not great, and that's somework I need to do, because I've
come a long way since then. Butthat kind of comes up that like
old kind of story sometimes, andI will get Freezy on
allowing myself to hyper focus,allowing myself and then if I
(25:50):
do, it's like, is this worth thetime? And so all of the sudden
I'll have, like, this day whereI've, like, set this aside to to
do these things,and I'll find myself just like
sitting there playing two dotsor watching something. And what
I've been doing lately is, allI've been thinking about is
(26:12):
Elizabeth,your voice saying, How can you
disrupt the pattern? So what Idecided to do the like in the
last like week or so, becauseI've had, I've specifically set
aside these days or chunks oftime to work on my writing and
to work on art and stuff likethat, or to work on, like, even
my dubsado platform, like I did,I was so proud of myself. Is I
(26:38):
am like, How can I disrupt thepattern? I change locations when
I did it and I had the TV on,but instead of having it like on
my iPad and trying to do on thecomputer, I take my iPad, which
is where I mostly do my drawingand stuff like that, and put it
on the big TV, and I'm not evenreally watching it, but there's
(26:58):
like, the little teenager mewho's like, I can't I'm watching
the show I want to watch, butI'm not really watching it. But
like, I'm alsolike, if I'm on my iPad,
obviously I can't do my art,right? So I'm like, you've got
to stop watching anything onyour iPad. It's off limits. No
more watching anything on youriPad. So I've changed locations
(27:20):
and done that, and I have donesomething every day
for some amount of time in thatspace, and I've allowed it to be
small, because I'm like, We'redisrupting a pattern. We're
changing like, this story oflike, you showing up at your
desk, which you love, and it'sall cozy for clients. But when
(27:42):
you go to do this other thing,you know what? You're not really
showing up for that, it's like,I'm here. I'm doing it one way.
So, so far, it's working. That'sawesome. It is awesome. But I
think that that is, like, kindof My new motto right now with
around my self awarenesspatterns
is, I know this about myself,because one of the things
(28:04):
clients say, I say this everyoneI know it's like, Why do I keep
doing the same thing over andover, but then, like, I'm
setting up life and situationsin the same way, because that's
what my brain wants, you know,whatever. And I'm just like, How
can I disrupt the pattern, whichfeels so safe to me, because it
feels like a micro step, youknow? Yeah, because what you're
(28:27):
wanting to do is disrupt thepattern as far away from the
actual, like pivotal point inthe pattern as possible. So
you're not wanting to disruptthe pattern of, how do I when
I'm in the middle of being zonedout and watching a show and
playing two dots, how do I makemyself stop that's not going to
(28:48):
work. You're saying, How do Idisrupt the pattern? Can I even
know what the pattern is longbefore that happens, so that the
pattern's disrupted way earlieron before it's like, stronger,
right? And and then justexperimenting with it and
seeing, like, does this make iteasier for me to make decisions
(29:10):
about what I'm doing with mytime? Yeah, and the other thing
is, is, if I have to do on mybig computer, I am before I get
I've decided that before I getto the time the
that I've allotted for thatin the morning, I'm writing down
just a couple of mini goals thatfeel like really doable, like
(29:33):
with debsada, which is, which islike a CRM or whatever, which is
likejust a client, honestly, system.
I lately, when I've been lookingat working out, I'm like, this
isn't that complicated, but Ihad made it a monster in my
mind.
And so do, yes, but I'm justdoing little parts at a time and
(29:56):
and allowing myself, givingmyself permission to do that.
And realizing, even though Iknew this intellectually, but
like in my body, realizing, wow,when I look back at my week and
I've made all of these steps andprogress towards it, even if
it's not done, there is afeeling and a momentum in there
of like, okay, I am makingprogress more than if I sit with
(30:19):
that more, all or nothing,thinking like, I would just want
to get the whole thing done intwo days. Done in two days. I
that hasn't worked for a year,right? So I don't know, yay me
patting myself on the back, andI'm just proud of that so
and another thing around bigtransitions too, was talking to
the eldest this morningand reminding him, like, how can
(30:41):
you disrupt? You know, thepattern of, like, this is kind
of, he's kind of in his littlelike pattern. And I left him
with that I didn't, like,suggest anything, but I don't,
that's my nugget for the week, Iguess. Yeah, I love it. And I
think it's, it's helpful tobring that in and thinking about
(31:01):
decision making, because I dothink that a lot of us are stuck
in patterns around how weapproach decisions. Yes, you
know, and like the clients thatI've had, tell me, I just wait
until the options aren't there,and I don't want to do it like
that anymore.
I'm missing opportunities when Ido that. And it's like, okay,
(31:26):
it's, it's not as simple as,like, Okay, we'll just stop
doing that. Make the decisionsooner. It's like, there's so
much more happening in your bodythat you could be approaching
that would help soften that,right? And that, like, over time
you would notice, oh, I'm notwaiting until there's only one
(31:47):
option left. I'm waiting untilthere's two options left. Like,
that's improvement, yeah, thehow you make decisions is that
your own process is no joke. Imean, so many times I have
college students or young adultsdon't know how to make
decisions? Well, yeah, becauseyour processes change, it's
going to look different whenyou're in high school and you're
under your parents roof, how youmake decisions, and then now you
(32:10):
have this, like, exponentiallymore autonomy, and all these
other different things anddifferent types of constraints,
like understanding your processis a big deal. I will say one of
the biggest sources of tensionat my house is on the nights
I've decided tonight's gonna benight we're gonna eat something
out is,well, well, besides the fact
(32:34):
that my kids don't like anythingto eat, this should be the easy
thing, right? I'm not cooking.
Joshua's not cooking. We get topick some place fun to eat and
blah. Well, for so long, Ishowed up to that process the
same way and beat my headagainst the wall every single
time. What do you guys want toeat tonight? What? What this is
(32:58):
like parenting 101, I'm askingthem, yeah, well, I don't. I
want the new part. They're oldernow, so yeah, you know, I want
them to they also have, like,sensory stuff, so I want to
include them in it. But it wasnot working. They would end up I
want this. I want that they'rethinking very one track mind,
(33:19):
the first thing pops up in theirhead that sounds good to them.
And so we it was getting to thepoint where I was like, I'm not
going to ask. I told Josh, I'mnot going to ask them about
eating out anymore, because thewhole point is to take labor off
the two of us so we're notcooking, and this is more labor.
And then it's like, whatever. Sothis is y'all, I'm not gonna
(33:41):
like this is win any awards forthis. This is really basic. All
we did was now we asked themeach, individually, separate
from each other, the top threethings they would really be
excited or feel good abouteating tonight. And then we go
and we look at kind of thematchup of like, okay, so you
(34:04):
set a chicken place, they set adifferent chicken place. Usually
they'll match up on the chickenplace or whatever. But instead
of, like, the one thing, I mean,I was setting myself up for
failure every time, but I justkept showing up and doing it the
same way.
Yeah, yeah. And I don't evenknow what made me change my
mind. I mean, Joshua and I juststarted doing it. I don't
(34:25):
remember the conversation, butjust examining those things, of
like, where is their tensionevery time, and is it the
decision, or is it the process?
Yeah, yeah. And, and how you'reshowing up in the process, or
how the other people involvedare showing up and realizing, I
mean, we, a long time ago,stopped making dinner with the
(34:47):
kids in mind, yeah, yeah,because we just weren't eating
anything we were enjoying. Andit was like, You know what? They
are not going to eat, what weeat, and we're going to offer
it, and if they.
Like it and want it great. Thereare very few things we make that
they like, that we're making forus. And
(35:09):
so I think also just kind oflike resolving myself to there
are even times where we orderout for us and I am still making
them dinner. Yeah, then I amlike saying, not asking them
what they want for the mostpart. And there's like, five
things we're picking from, andit's everybody's happy,
everybody's fed, and everybody'shappy. And, yeah, we had this
(35:30):
conversation this morning,because it's a Friday, and it
was like, What are we going toeat for dinner? I hate this
conversation. I hate it if Inever had to decide on a meal
again. I mean, I want to decide,because I want to eat, what I
want to eat. But like, if I forme, I want to decide labor of
dinner is so I feel like thisabout every meal. But I, I, I
(35:52):
was like, Well, I'm thinking, Iwant Thai food. Sounds good, but
pizza sounds easy, because if weget Thai food, they might eat
it. We might have to make themsomething separate. If we get
pizza, they will eat it. But itdoesn't sound that good to me.
It's just like, yeah, so I'm notgoing to make a decision. I'll
talk to you later. It was like,you know, I still have, I have
(36:15):
to decide what I really want.
Yeah, and like, right? It'sprioritizing. I do you want the
yummiest thing, or do you wantthe least labor? You have to
make a choice between those twothings. It's not Thai or pizza.
It's like, do I make a secondsecond dinner, or do I really
get my sensory delightsatisfied? That's totally it.
Yeah. Like a really terribledecision. Yeah, sometimes I will
(36:37):
say that Joshua would never dothis, but I do this often. I
would say often, but every oncein a while, I just can't eat
raising canes one more time, Ijust can do it. And there's a
sandwich shop over there. It'slike, right next door. And so I
just get myself what I want, andI just go pick up the curbside
(36:59):
what they want. And he's like,that's too much work. I'm like,
it's actually,I'm totally fine with it. It's
right next door. It's really,like, it's two extra steps or
whatever, and I get something Ireally want to eat. You know,
I'm not gonna drive all over thecity. I think that's awesome.
That is one of the gifts ofliving in a super convenient we
(37:21):
don't have that here, but, Ithink, but, but having that
sense of like I'm making adecision about a meal, and it's
getting complicated, because weall have complicated eating
habits and preferences. And theother night I did that where I
basically, like, the kids hadleftover chili. It's one of the
(37:45):
few things they like, I cannotreally have chili right now, and
soand Corey can make his own meal.
So I was like, Okay, there'sleftover chili. I made the kids
a plate, and I was like, I can'teat chili, nor do it, does it
sound good? And I made myselfeggs and toast and like, I mean,
sometimes I love breakfast, metoo. Sometimes I do feel like a
(38:08):
short order cook. And I knowthere's all these parents out
there, like, you know, listen,Joshua cooks for him, and I most
days of the week. And weird,same thing. We're not really
keeping them in mind. There's acouple of things that like Sam
will really like, or Nora mighteat a little bit of, but for the
most part, they have somethingseparate. We have staples and
(38:30):
things here that like, you know,they'll want to eat, you know,
like, Sam's on a breakfastburrito kick right now, with
eggs and bacon and cheese. I'mlike, fine, whatever could eat
that every day, great.
And, you know, I really had tokind of come to terms with some
of that, of like, you know, Imake it easy on myself, but
(38:54):
there is going to be separatedinners. There's going to be a
different and I know some peoplelike you just put it in front of
them and eat it, not my kids.
Well, with that, we had thatconversation this week, and I
think that is one of thedecisions that I have made about
my parenting. Yeah, me too, thatI am not going to require my
(39:16):
kids to eat what's put in frontof them that was required of me,
and I just, like, for the mostpart, it was fine, but it just
doesn't feel good to me. Yeah, Idabble in, like, okay, these are
the areas in which, like, I knowthey'll always eat a grilled
(39:37):
burger, yeah, or something alongthose lines, and I will just not
ask them and just cook it. Andif they don't want to eat it,
like they know, options of whatthey can make for themselves, or
there's, like, other things,it's not going to be the same
quality of meal, I'll be honest.
Like, I'm not going to, like,make a second amazing meal or
(39:58):
whatever. Or Josh was not but.
But,um, my Well, my kids, I speak
for them. School is a lot, andI'm just not going to add that
onto their little brains whenthey come home and
it's a battle that just doesn'tfeel worth it knowing them,
(40:20):
yeah, well, you know, andknowing that, like, I have kids
who just won't eat right, orwon't eat enough, like maybe,
like Nora would eat a piece offruit or whatever, but I just it
feels, and I'm not dogginganyone does this, because for
every time I say this, I willhave someone who says, Oh, my,
(40:41):
not me. I just put everythingout there. My kids will eat it.
And if you just do that, I'mlike, I'm telling you right now,
and this is not anything expertadvice or not, but I'm telling
you they probably would haveeaten it anyway. They're just
not Oh, yeah. Like, that's neverworked with my kids. Yeah. Tried
that from the time they werevery little. Yes, we're giving
them Indian food and Thai foodand all kinds of different
(41:05):
cuisine. And they, for the mostpart, they will try stuff, but
no, they do not eat anythingthat's put in front of them. And
I will say, the more, especiallymy middle is taxed and stressed.
The more it comes out in hisfood choices, the smaller his
menu gets. So, you know, he'sgot other like, sensory stuff
(41:31):
there. That's a little more, Iguess, acute. So, yeah, I feel
that too. I mean, yeah, I'mgonna be honest. I've been
eating cereal for lunch forlike, two or three weeks now,
all this back to school and backto work. It's great. I don't
feel bad about as I love it,some frosted mini wheat knots
offs or whatever from Aldi. It'sgood. It's going like, I don't
(41:53):
care, yeah, and I thinkreleasing a lot of that, and to
me, what I'm just thinking ofwith the kids having the ability
to like, not eat what's put infront of them is a privilege. It
is not something that happens inmost of the rest of the world,
for sure, andthere is this space to say this
is part of what it looks likewhen your kids are being given
(42:16):
the tools to know if they wantsomething or not, or if they
like something or not, which issome of the building blocks of
them being good decision makersfor themselves all along the way
and down the line. And it itfeels hard in the moment to
reconcile that, but I do believethat for most of us who struggle
(42:38):
with making decisions. Itstarted very young, and it
started with a lot of feedbackthat shaped how we interact with
choice and how we interact withmaking decisions. And yeah, I
just, I mean, why do you thinkthere's all these memes about
the boyfriend asking thegirlfriend what she wants to
eat, and she's like, I don'tcare. I don't whatever. There's
(43:00):
always, you know? I mean, peopleare always making that into a
joke. Well, I mean, if we wantto go too, you know, deep, it's
like, okay, well, guess what?
Women are silenced from veryyoung age about having really
strong opinions about things,right? And the decisions they
make around food and all theseother things and and socially is
(43:23):
watched and micromanaged andjudged. And so it's like ask,
it's a loaded Yes, a 16 year oldgirl what she wants to eat on a
date? Guess what it's that's aloaded question. I mean, it is
for a lot of girls, because theyare Yeah, unless she's been in
an environment where she's beenencouraged to pick what she
(43:43):
likes and what she actuallywants. And, yeah, yeah, yeah,
okay. We talked a lot aboutmeals. Hopefully it was a
helpful little petri dish ofsome of how the like real life
in the moment, decision making,stuff, I think comes to play.
It's not always just like thesebig, huge decisions, which is a
(44:05):
whole other topic around what isyour decision making process?
How do you approach things? Whatyou know, there's all kinds of
methods and stuff, but, oh yeah,it's
important to acknowledge thatdecision making is hard. We're
required to do it a lot, andit's okay to acknowledge that
(44:26):
you have some fatigue from it,and that in certain seasons,
especially in big transitions,decisions feel harder, even
simple ones, and all the stressand all the self condemnation
over why can't I make adecision? Or what's the is
adding to the it's not making iteasier to make the decision.
(44:48):
Noticing that the decision isfeeling hard, and just letting
it feel hard for a minute mightbe part of what helps you loosen
it up. Yeah, yeah. I have moreto say.
But I don't think I'm gonnaOkay, but just because, I mean,
you know, get off on a tangentbecause we're tired. And yeah,
okay, all right. Well, thanksfor hanging out. Yep, Love you.
(45:10):
Love you too. Bye.
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