January 26, 2024 • 30 mins
Well, this took a confessional turn...
We started with no topic and quickly found ourselves confessing what's breaking us lately.
Sleepy Sisters podcast is hosted by Elizabeth Brink and Sarah Durham. This show is unedited and often unprepared for, so we hope you enjoy our resistance to perfection!
www.thrivingsistercoaching.com
www.kattywhompous.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:02):
Hello, hello.
Hi, I. So we're here today andshe's like, she doesn't even
know what to do with herself inthis moment because she doesn't
have any idea we're gonna talkabout. We don't prep. This is
Sarah Durham, and Elizabethbring the nervous one. Yeah, we
(00:25):
don't prep or edit.
But we usually will say like,Hey, you want to kind of talk
about this or whatever, like,the day before? And she texted
me yesterday and said, How areyou talking about something?
What are we gonna talk about?
And just everything in my bodywas like, I cannot schedule a
serious conversation right now.
(00:49):
But I know that everythingwithin her right now or you talk
to you. I know. She's like,you're super busy. You're like
tight ship mode,wall wall appointments. And when
I said hey, like, let's just dothis. It was like silence. And
it was just it was a normalamount of silence, but I know
(01:10):
her. And she confirmed later,she was like, she does know me
because she texted I was like, ahuge time gap. And she texted
about some other things. Andthen she said, and I quote,
don't be spooked about the lackof specific, serious topic.
It'll be fun. It's just like,you know, me so well.
(01:33):
Just not having any idea is notactually fun for her. Well, my
brain went to all these placesof like, this is going to be
dumb and lame for people to I'mtrying not to use that word
lame. You know, it's reallyablest.
Yeah, so yeah, see, I need atopic and you just
so you don't need a topicbecause you just need to be at
(01:54):
your city. And that's what Ineed today. Okay, okay.
Probably, you know, tight shipmode, you don't really make the
time to do chill mo D, like, youknow, combos. Oh, I don't do
chill. Are you on and off? Iknow, it was funny. I was
thinking about when I was ateacher. We used to do fun
Fridays. And, you know, fun is avery loaded word. And I was
(02:19):
thinking about, you know, thepoint of Fun Friday was like to
create some spaciousness to kindof laugh and like, do other
things we wouldn't normally do.
Was like, do we actually knowhow to have fun? I'm gonna show
off. I'm like, do we not havefun? But I do. I do think it's
been a minute since we likelaugh together. You and I know
how to have fun.
(02:40):
It's a good question. Yeah. Imean, I own version of fun. But
yeah, yeah, it's like nerdy fun.
Yeah. And so I thought, well, ifI didn't if we didn't talk about
something specific, and justshowed up and spent some time
together and talked about, like,what was going on with us? And
then I thought, Well, gosh,maybe our topic should be why
(03:00):
Elizabeth can't be spontaneous.
As if I am loosey goosey overhere able to Well, I gotta tell
you yesterday, if my therapysession, I came to realize that
I have an incomplete startleresponse from when I was five.
So that could have something todo with not wanting to be caught
(03:21):
off guard with a topic orsomething popping up. But I do
have a thing that I just reallyneed to get out in. And I don't
know if I'll regret having saidthis on the podcast or not. But
I told you recently that I havebecome like, somewhat obsessed
with Travis Kelce and TaylorSwift's romance. Yes. Okay. So
(03:46):
I've ruined it. Would you do? I,I, y'all, I don't follow any
sports. And I don't even followher music. Like I know some of
the songs that have been likereally popular, but
I'm not a hater. I just don'tfollow these things. And but I'm
(04:09):
like, really, really invested intheir love. And I've been like,
really enjoying that. And then Ithe other night, I on YouTube
watched most of a full episodeof him and his brothers podcast.
It's very different than theclips that they put on
(04:29):
Instagram. No, because the clipsI was like, Oh my gosh, these
guys are hilarious. They remindme of me and you. They like get
along so well.
It I just I don't want to say alot of negative things, but I
don't like him anymore.
Now you can stop being obsessed.
It's true. It did put a stop toit. But now I'm kind of
(04:51):
grieving. Like, gosh, I can'tbelieve I ruined it. I should
not have known more about himand
He's not a terrible person. He'slike, by all accounts, according
to probably lots of people'sstandards. Like, he's just fine.
But he just isn't for me. And Iwas just kind of like,
disillusioned with like, Oh,he's got like this great smile.
(05:15):
And he's, you know, pursuing herand being so sweet. But like,
he's still like, a dude, who isa little out of touch. And it
just was like, I want more forTaylor. As long as you don't go
in trying to break them up, Ithink, okay.
I just feel like I can't show myface anywhere and talk about
(05:37):
this, because so many people arerooting for them. And I'm not
rooting against them. But Ijust, I am no longer interested,
I guess is the thing. I'm like,Oh, I think that is
something that is reallyinteresting about celebrity
culture is that when you arekind of a fan of someone or you
(05:58):
like someone, I think at thispoint, my life, I almost it's
like, a double edged sword islike, I, I want to know more
about them, like, should I rootfor them? Because I want to
know, like, are they ethical? Dothey, you know, whatever. And
then it's like, but then if youknow too much, you know, it's,
it ruins it. And so there's justkind of a very fine line, about
(06:21):
how much you want to know aboutthem. And, you know,
we have had experience withlike, celebrity culture, and we
know, like, there's some, like,you know, there's stuff around
that kind of builds things upand stuff like that. So it's
like, I totally get what youmean.
And she's also like,problematic, too. Like, I love
(06:44):
her. I keep thinking about her.
I love her music, she drives,she she, she flies, private jets
everywhere. And like, our planetis like, I mean, so hard.
So I know, I know. And I keepthinking of like, all these
people who talk about like,there are no ethical
billionaires like there are no,you know, this is just not okay,
(07:06):
how much wealth some people havebeen able to amass. And so yes,
I have destroyed the romance inmy so I guess what I'm feeling
is that, like, I've destroyedthe fun I was having, like, I
was having a little bit of that,like, kind of teenage fun, like,
when you're watching a reallygood rom com, and you're like
rooting for Yeah. And then andthen it just was like, then they
(07:33):
did a sequel of the rom com. Andit's like, you're seeing more of
them. And you're like, Oh, thisisn't actually not that into
this couple. And it kind ofruins the first movie, because
you're like, dang, I was so highoff of that experience of like
being in it and it felt so good.
Bomber will say and, you knowthis about me and this, I'm not
(07:56):
I'm not proud of this. ButI went through a phase where my
dissociative pattern was to readgossip blinds, I remember this.
And all the time, it was,Wow, a lot of things were blown
up for me in there. Because evenif some of it was true, and
(08:19):
there's some of the stuff youjust you then you see confirms
so some of these sites, it'slike, they only talk about what
they know, on the inside. Andthen before it's about to go
public, to show that they'relike, kind of on the inside. But
they don't like do things likeout people and stuff like that.
It's not like that. It's it'smore like this is about to come
out. So we're gonna say thisthing. And it kept happening. I
(08:39):
was like, Oh, my God, peoplereally know what's going on. And
so I stopped reading thosebecause then I just didn't like
any celebrity at all. Not thatwe need to like celebrities, but
when you're trying to watch amovie and you're, you know,
bomber, like while you are.
I can't, I can't, I can't spendmy money on this, your whatever.
(09:02):
It's just funny because I feellike you and I are always
telling this line ofdeep dives and wanting to know
the thing and wanting to makesure that we're showing them in
a way that is with integrity.
And we don't want to back thewrong person, quote unquote. And
(09:24):
it really is a fun killer. Butthen it's like, well, you know,
because there are people wholive their lives, exposing all
of things that aren't actuallyreally that fun and great.
It's just, I don't know, we'vehad a lot of hard in our lives
sometimes I just kind of want tobe in the dark about some
things. I know. And I was like,This is why fictional characters
are better. Yeah, it's reallytrue. So true. It's not like
(09:49):
it's something that's probablyon a t shirt. Someone has that
on a t shirt. Yeah, yeah. So Iwas thinking anyway, I was
thinking aboutThis now I want to say so now I
have another confession becauseI just had a confession. Okay.
This one's really dirty. It'sreally bad.
(10:11):
Did she say dirty? I feel I feelfilthy. Oh my gosh, what is
about to happen?
This episode just got better. Ihope I hope this is not lame,
whatever you're about, oh, Ijust used the word again. Y'all.
I'm really gonna try. It's an80s. And we're gonna get I know,
I feel like as a Gen X. Sothere's always these words I use
(10:34):
that I'm constantly having torethink and not say and, yeah.
Okay, now back to you.
I have been.
Oh my gosh, I've been watching ashow. Show.
Vanderpump Rules and it is sotoxic. And I am obsessed. I
(10:59):
can't stop watching it. Do youfeel like do you feel like
meaner? I do. I feel meaner. Ifeel like when I when I'm done
with episodes, I feel like in ahole. I feel like I'm in a bad
mood. Yeah, but I can't stopwatching them. Like with below
deck where I just felt likeI just didn't. Maybe it was the
best use of my time. But it waslike, I wasn't paying that close
(11:22):
of attention.
People are so hateful on theshow. Yeah, they are. So they
have so many issues. Likethere's so and of course, you
know, there's this fun part oflike armchair diagnosis, like
when you're watching some ofthese things that like oh,
relational things like with thebachelor. You know, I can watch
(11:46):
that and kind of suspend a lotof it because there's some
pettiness and all of that, butit's not this deep
in your life every day.
That you just are really, it'sjust yeah, like this is your
life. It's yeah, it's kind ofdepressing. I can't get a job.
I'm actually I feel like Ishouldn't say I'm addicted to
(12:08):
it. I can't start watching it.
Because I saw that there wasthis big blow up right. And I
don't know anything. I know alittle bit about what happened.
They don't know a lot, but I'mwatching the seasons. When did
you start on one you instructedall the way back?
How many it's been on for years?
Oh my god, and I'm only onSeason Six right now.
(12:35):
And I have to get to 10 I guessbecause I love it. I watched
last season once like theheadlines started coming out. I
was like alright, what is thiswhat's going on and I watched
last season so that I could seethe betrayal or whatever I came
in remember what it they hadsome stupid name for it.
And it was pretty good realityTV in terms of reality TV
(12:58):
standards. But I did feel likemy soul rotted a little. Okay, I
feel rotten. That's exactly howI feel. I feel rotten. And
so I know the there's the thethe love triangle, like there
was this betrayal, right? But Idon't know anything about these
people until I started watchingfrom season one. And I have to
(13:22):
see it through because okay,this is gonna I don't know no
one the 20 people listening aregonna care about it. Either.
Don't watch this or they,whatever. I'm not there yet. I
don't know what happened. But Ireally like Tom Sandoval.
likable guy, and so no, and Ilove him. And Ariana is
(13:43):
relationship like she's totallycool. In the show. She's
probably the most likable personon the show. As far as like,
she's kind of got an arm'slength distance from some of the
stuff. AndI know he is the villain. And I
think we need I think we need togo to Bravo Khan.
(14:04):
Maybe maybe, so I'm watching himbelieve you just said you really
like him? No, he's you have why?
No, I did in the very beginningwhen the show first came out. I
did watch it some. But I don'tknow. He just reminds me of one
of those hyperactive kind ofkids who's like really into all
these different things. Like,you know, I know people say, Oh,
maybe he had like a good edit orwhatever. I don't know. And I
(14:26):
don't know all the details. I'mreally watching it, like start
to finish to see like how it allunfolds. But so even though you
feel rotten. Yeah, you'recommitted to the decay of your
soul. Yeah, I feellike I feel like saying it out
loud. I need to say a lotbecause I'm the only one that
(14:48):
knows this is happening otherthan you now. And everyone who's
listening.
Jason knows Jason knows. He'she's probably did that.
Brother. Yeah. And I realize Idon't really need to watch all
the episodes, I need to probablyjust go through just watch the
reunion, like for the nextcouple of seasons and then watch
(15:12):
the last season just so I canlike put it to bed. Yeah.
Because here's the thing, I wason that below deck, you know,
train, and I was watching allthose and I was enjoying it. And
there, I watched all of theseasons. And then I got to the
current season and waiting wetweak. It's not that
(15:33):
interesting. I'm not that intoit. It's like, yeah, just kind
of went away. So I know it'sgonna go away. It's just certain
storylines. I mean, this is, youknow, it's similar to Taylor and
Travis. It's like, there's astoryline, there's, there's a
couple of characters you getinvested in. And I think, I do
(15:53):
think sometimes, like beingneurodivergent makes this a
little trickier. Because I, Iwill sometimes feel so
entrenched in the story that itwill feel real to me, like, I
will feel like I will havedreams. And this did happen. I
had a dream about Taylor andTravis. And I was friends with
(16:14):
Taylor and we went to a bakery,it was this whole thing. Like
that happens to me, when I getreally entrenched in these kinds
of storylines is that like, myimagination, and my psyche
doesn't keep it as like, this isentertainment. This is a story
this is, you know,you're not seeing everything.
(16:34):
This is not the whole story. Igo all in and feel like really
attached emotionally attached topeople who.
Yeah, they don't give any caresabout me if they're even real.
People.
Just don't believe him is notfictional. I mean, you're like,
(16:55):
oh, not, you know, fictionalcharacters are the best. These
are technically probably someversion of fiction. They are, I
mean, a lot of these shows.
Yeah, they're reshooting things.
They're, you know, they'resomewhat jaded. They're not.
I feel like I've definitely feelmore judgmental. I feel more,
(17:16):
not myself more. And I'm wakingup every day and I'm going on my
walks and thinking, how am Igonna spend my day? And the
sun's not out? And I'm, I'mvacillate between being stuck in
grief, because it's mommy weary.
And we've got this season beforemom's anniversary. And it's
like, but I also want the energyof hope and goodness. And I feel
(17:40):
like I'm sabotaging it with theshow. Yeah, and I can't turn
away.
Mm hmm. You know, there's,there's a comfort and just, I
don't think I want to givemyself permission to hibernate
during this time. I wonderthough, could you tell me like,
(18:01):
let me do a little SE. I'mcurious about this. Like, what
the sensation is, what are thesignals that tell you can't turn
away? What does that feel likein your body? Because it looked
like something justhappened when you were saying
that I can't turn away?
How do you know you can't turnaway?
(18:22):
Well, I can't make it. Iphysically can, but it won't be
cozy.
Yeah, but what what's the what'sthe feeling of I can't turn
away? Does that show upsomewhere in your body? It's
okay, but doesn't it but doesthat show up somewhere?
Well, like all things that causetension, it's in my chest.
(18:45):
Well, not everything that causestension, but a good amount of
things that are anxietyproducing our chest. Thing that
bring my shoulders forward.
Okay, so it's like in your chestup into your shoulders. Yeah.
And they pull forward notserious. Like, when I'm
seriously it's something that'sreally hard. It goes up into my
jaw, it's not that big, butenough discomfort where I just
(19:14):
I just want to do it.
I just want to do it. And I keepgoing back for like, what I
should be doing with my time.
And I think if I had a clearerpicture of what I should be
doing with my time, maybe thatwould be helpful. I have things
I need to be working on. I'vethings that I would I know make
me feel good that I could bedoing.
(19:39):
But I'm, yeah, there's a I'mtrying to.
So what I'm hearing isyou want to watch the show. I do
and it makes you feel yucky butyou want to watch it. Yeah, I
do. And I Yeah. And so there's aproblem for you in that
(20:00):
in that and that it makes youfeel yucky and you still want to
do it. Yes, because I have avery, I have a pretty well
developed Higher Self now,that's like, let's make some
better decisions about thingsthat make you feel good. You
right? It's okay to rest it'sokay to check out that higher
self knows all the balancethings they know. And
(20:22):
I still have this kind of likepart of me. I was about to ask
like, so for those who can'thear the show got her arms
crossed, she looks a little likeher youngest kid. What? How old
do you feel when you feel likethat? I want to watch it anyway.
Oh, man, I mean, Middle School.
(20:48):
Fifth, sixth grade, maybe.
I mean, I definitely had thatthroughout the high school
years, but just a definiteit's my time I can do it. I want
to do. And I know that I can.
And I have this conversationwith you all the time, on our
walks, where you're like, in mymind going?
(21:12):
Yeah, it makes you feel bad. Imean, you know, maybe it's, and
I'm, and then I have these like,things where I'm like, okay, you
know,what, I'll lean into what it
feels like, when I'm writingwhen I'm drawing when I'm doing
these things. And I'm like, thatis actually my safe place. That
(21:32):
is actually my happy place. AndI'm deliberately not sitting in
that to go over here and kickrocks. But I wonder, I wonder if
we could do like a littlethought experiment about this,
becauseI'm also hearing that, like,
there's this younger part thatwants to do it just because, and
(21:59):
and I just wonder, like, what'sso bad about letting her have
what she wants?
And like, what would it looklike? Or feel like if
indulging in this,for this limited engagement? If
it were a practice of like,letting her have what she wants?
(22:20):
Like, rather than a fight withher about it?
Um, I guess the fear of likeit taking over and like me them
fighting another show? And like,how long is this gonna go? And,
you know, where I have that partof me that is more comfortable
(22:44):
and just doing things without areason? I mean, there's a bigger
part of me, it's like, we needto have a reason for all the
things that we do. So there'sthat. And are they responsible?
Are they life giving? Are theymeaning an internet? You know,
all of that, like, do they letyou up and blah, blah, blah, and
I'm, like, dirty show with aquarter to leave me alone. That
(23:06):
part, right, it's like, I canindulge that sometimes. But like
to do this for a stretch, feelsvery self indulgent feels. Semi
destructive, you know, just andI mean, it sounds very on brand
for an adolescent, a preadolescent, young adolescent
(23:30):
didn't get to do that. Yeah.
Not for extended periods oftime. Yeah, except for the fact
that, you know, I think givingmyself permission to do that,
with having been in the seasonof really tough growing pains,
(23:54):
and having stretches of notknowing what's next, or what I'm
gonna do with this part, or thispart of my life, and not having
so many things figured out forso long.
You know, if I had been hypervigilant, over productive work
mode up until this time, I couldfind a little more ease to give
it to myself that there is apermission get Yeah, I know. Oh,
(24:18):
yeah. You need to get that restdeck out that I gave you in that
ministry.
It's rare. But what you justsaid was, if I had been like
working really hard, pushingmyself toward burnout, I could
then give myself permission towatch a CD. That's always been
the cycle, right? The cycle islike, I have to like, go inside
(24:42):
and do these things. And rightnow it's the point you have all
this freedomto like, create and cultivate
something that that reallyspeaks to you and you want to go
in the corner and watch thedirty show. Like what's that? I
need you to stop calling itdirty because it's
(25:02):
a whole other.
Okay. So maybe it is a littleI'm sorry, that is like what you
call that kind of, you know,racy. Yeah. Okay. So, okay. Um,
it's like when I was working forsomebody who was British and I
used the word smart.
(25:28):
And I said, I was referring toreality TV actually. And I was
saying something about it. Ithink that's the word I use
saying about it being kind ofthis like smut or whatever. And
I didn't know that. Hisinterpret it. He was my boss at
the time. But his interpretationof that with his British, their
the way they use that word islike, actually, like, you know,
(25:52):
triple-x like, truly. So infront of him and his boss and
other people. I was tellingthem, I watched a lot of smut.
That's amazing.
That's really bad. That's notthe only thing that got messed
up when I worked for him. Butanyway, so that's kind of what
(26:13):
keeps happening every time yousay, the dirty show. Yeah.
You're telling people,but maybe I would, I would say
more energy, just not resistingand telling myself I should, I
should just do it.
I think I'm just more I'm waymore interested. I'm less
interested in like the actualshow and the watching of it. I'm
(26:33):
way more interested in thiswhole dynamic around, like grown
up Sarah, having a lot ofopinions about
what she isn't isn't doing withher time. She's so judgy. She's
superduty. But that I don't knowthat that's not that. That's not
to say that fully resourced? Me,I don't think that's just the
(26:56):
part she's a part of. Yeah,yeah, I think, you know, and it
could be just all the stuffthat's been brought up with mom,
you know, and like, we talkedabout
this 50 milestone for me, andI'm definitely struggling with
that more this year. I think,with more feelings coming up
more reflection than I've had inprior years of my childhood and
(27:21):
my time with her and all ofthat, that. You know, I mean,
that younger part of myself,just maybe more in the
forefront, like, you know, Idon't know, I just sounds like
she's getting what she wanted.
And that there is some elementof that. That's kind of cool. I
(27:44):
keep telling people thatmenopause is like the second
puberty. Yeah, that makes sense.
I'm definitely watching theshow.
No, there is some there is somelike, yeah, there is some
liberation, just sit, I canwatch whatever show I want to
watch. And you know what I cando what I want with my time, it
(28:06):
is my choice. There may beconsequences for that. And
that's right. It is my choice.
Andyou're not powerless, you're not
powerless to the mood that theshow puts you in either.
That is true. That is true. AndI don't even know if it's
actually the show. I mean, Idon't I could put something else
(28:29):
on I still feel the same way.
Because I kind of feel this way.
A lot during summer year. Sothat is true. Um,
so yeah, I mean, that's kind ofwhere I'm at.
This was so fun.
So this is actually fun for us.
This is how we define fun. Yeah,there it is. There's an example
(28:50):
of why we do the podcast becauseit's actually fun for us talking
about serious things, but I wastrying to give it a different
spin. I can't I don't know Ican. But well, we can. But I
think we just have to acceptthat this is what is kind of
fun. I just want when you're intight ship mode, as when I am
(29:10):
which I'm obviously not.
But, um, it's just so easy forus to go into that mode of
talking. Have you know, likehaving something to talk about?
Oh, yeah. Yeah, like goingwith me. I needed to get out of
(29:31):
the calcium, that nonsense andjust tell you watch it.
Vanderpump Rules and just youknow, yeah, I get it. I and I
needed it to and I yeah, Ineeded it to. I went to
doughnuts with grownups thismorning. Okay, it's good name.
It was yeah, it was fine. AndI'm getting a tattoo tonight.
(29:51):
Oh, you're actually getting ittonight. I'm doing it. Wow. Five
o'clock. Oh my gosh. You Yeah.
What? It's a big deal. I know,even with your incomplete story.
Well, I actually talked to herat the end of the session. I was
like so with the tattootomorrow, and she gave me a
(30:12):
homework of playing some gameswith the kids that would startle
me so I could play with thestartle response. And like, let
my body feel into it a littlebit in a way that isn't like
related to a stressfulencounter.
So interesting. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, I booked another sessionwith her immediately because I
(30:34):
was like, Okay, we got more totalk about.
Anyway, all right. All right.
Fun to see you.
was, this was fun. I liked this.
Alright, good. All right. I loveyou. Bye. Love you too. Bye.
Hello, hello.
Hi, I. So we're here today andshe's like, she doesn't even
know what to do with herself inthis moment because she doesn't
have any idea we're gonna talkabout. We don't prep. This is
Sarah Durham, and Elizabethbring the nervous one. Yeah, we
(00:25):
don't prep or edit.
But we usually will say like,Hey, you want to kind of talk
about this or whatever, like,the day before? And she texted
me yesterday and said, How areyou talking about something?
What are we gonna talk about?
And just everything in my bodywas like, I cannot schedule a
serious conversation right now.
(00:49):
But I know that everythingwithin her right now or you talk
to you. I know. She's like,you're super busy. You're like
tight ship mode,wall wall appointments. And when
I said hey, like, let's just dothis. It was like silence. And
it was just it was a normalamount of silence, but I know
(01:10):
her. And she confirmed later,she was like, she does know me
because she texted I was like, ahuge time gap. And she texted
about some other things. Andthen she said, and I quote,
don't be spooked about the lackof specific, serious topic.
It'll be fun. It's just like,you know, me so well.
(01:33):
Just not having any idea is notactually fun for her. Well, my
brain went to all these placesof like, this is going to be
dumb and lame for people to I'mtrying not to use that word
lame. You know, it's reallyablest.
Yeah, so yeah, see, I need atopic and you just
so you don't need a topicbecause you just need to be at
(01:54):
your city. And that's what Ineed today. Okay, okay.
Probably, you know, tight shipmode, you don't really make the
time to do chill mo D, like, youknow, combos. Oh, I don't do
chill. Are you on and off? Iknow, it was funny. I was
thinking about when I was ateacher. We used to do fun
Fridays. And, you know, fun is avery loaded word. And I was
(02:19):
thinking about, you know, thepoint of Fun Friday was like to
create some spaciousness to kindof laugh and like, do other
things we wouldn't normally do.
Was like, do we actually knowhow to have fun? I'm gonna show
off. I'm like, do we not havefun? But I do. I do think it's
been a minute since we likelaugh together. You and I know
how to have fun.
(02:40):
It's a good question. Yeah. Imean, I own version of fun. But
yeah, yeah, it's like nerdy fun.
Yeah. And so I thought, well, ifI didn't if we didn't talk about
something specific, and justshowed up and spent some time
together and talked about, like,what was going on with us? And
then I thought, Well, gosh,maybe our topic should be why
(03:00):
Elizabeth can't be spontaneous.
As if I am loosey goosey overhere able to Well, I gotta tell
you yesterday, if my therapysession, I came to realize that
I have an incomplete startleresponse from when I was five.
So that could have something todo with not wanting to be caught
(03:21):
off guard with a topic orsomething popping up. But I do
have a thing that I just reallyneed to get out in. And I don't
know if I'll regret having saidthis on the podcast or not. But
I told you recently that I havebecome like, somewhat obsessed
with Travis Kelce and TaylorSwift's romance. Yes. Okay. So
(03:46):
I've ruined it. Would you do? I,I, y'all, I don't follow any
sports. And I don't even followher music. Like I know some of
the songs that have been likereally popular, but
I'm not a hater. I just don'tfollow these things. And but I'm
(04:09):
like, really, really invested intheir love. And I've been like,
really enjoying that. And then Ithe other night, I on YouTube
watched most of a full episodeof him and his brothers podcast.
It's very different than theclips that they put on
(04:29):
Instagram. No, because the clipsI was like, Oh my gosh, these
guys are hilarious. They remindme of me and you. They like get
along so well.
It I just I don't want to say alot of negative things, but I
don't like him anymore.
Now you can stop being obsessed.
It's true. It did put a stop toit. But now I'm kind of
(04:51):
grieving. Like, gosh, I can'tbelieve I ruined it. I should
not have known more about himand
He's not a terrible person. He'slike, by all accounts, according
to probably lots of people'sstandards. Like, he's just fine.
But he just isn't for me. And Iwas just kind of like,
disillusioned with like, Oh,he's got like this great smile.
(05:15):
And he's, you know, pursuing herand being so sweet. But like,
he's still like, a dude, who isa little out of touch. And it
just was like, I want more forTaylor. As long as you don't go
in trying to break them up, Ithink, okay.
I just feel like I can't show myface anywhere and talk about
(05:37):
this, because so many people arerooting for them. And I'm not
rooting against them. But Ijust, I am no longer interested,
I guess is the thing. I'm like,Oh, I think that is
something that is reallyinteresting about celebrity
culture is that when you arekind of a fan of someone or you
(05:58):
like someone, I think at thispoint, my life, I almost it's
like, a double edged sword islike, I, I want to know more
about them, like, should I rootfor them? Because I want to
know, like, are they ethical? Dothey, you know, whatever. And
then it's like, but then if youknow too much, you know, it's,
it ruins it. And so there's justkind of a very fine line, about
(06:21):
how much you want to know aboutthem. And, you know,
we have had experience withlike, celebrity culture, and we
know, like, there's some, like,you know, there's stuff around
that kind of builds things upand stuff like that. So it's
like, I totally get what youmean.
And she's also like,problematic, too. Like, I love
(06:44):
her. I keep thinking about her.
I love her music, she drives,she she, she flies, private jets
everywhere. And like, our planetis like, I mean, so hard.
So I know, I know. And I keepthinking of like, all these
people who talk about like,there are no ethical
billionaires like there are no,you know, this is just not okay,
(07:06):
how much wealth some people havebeen able to amass. And so yes,
I have destroyed the romance inmy so I guess what I'm feeling
is that, like, I've destroyedthe fun I was having, like, I
was having a little bit of that,like, kind of teenage fun, like,
when you're watching a reallygood rom com, and you're like
rooting for Yeah. And then andthen it just was like, then they
(07:33):
did a sequel of the rom com. Andit's like, you're seeing more of
them. And you're like, Oh, thisisn't actually not that into
this couple. And it kind ofruins the first movie, because
you're like, dang, I was so highoff of that experience of like
being in it and it felt so good.
Bomber will say and, you knowthis about me and this, I'm not
(07:56):
I'm not proud of this. ButI went through a phase where my
dissociative pattern was to readgossip blinds, I remember this.
And all the time, it was,Wow, a lot of things were blown
up for me in there. Because evenif some of it was true, and
(08:19):
there's some of the stuff youjust you then you see confirms
so some of these sites, it'slike, they only talk about what
they know, on the inside. Andthen before it's about to go
public, to show that they'relike, kind of on the inside. But
they don't like do things likeout people and stuff like that.
It's not like that. It's it'smore like this is about to come
out. So we're gonna say thisthing. And it kept happening. I
(08:39):
was like, Oh, my God, peoplereally know what's going on. And
so I stopped reading thosebecause then I just didn't like
any celebrity at all. Not thatwe need to like celebrities, but
when you're trying to watch amovie and you're, you know,
bomber, like while you are.
I can't, I can't, I can't spendmy money on this, your whatever.
(09:02):
It's just funny because I feellike you and I are always
telling this line ofdeep dives and wanting to know
the thing and wanting to makesure that we're showing them in
a way that is with integrity.
And we don't want to back thewrong person, quote unquote. And
(09:24):
it really is a fun killer. Butthen it's like, well, you know,
because there are people wholive their lives, exposing all
of things that aren't actuallyreally that fun and great.
It's just, I don't know, we'vehad a lot of hard in our lives
sometimes I just kind of want tobe in the dark about some
things. I know. And I was like,This is why fictional characters
are better. Yeah, it's reallytrue. So true. It's not like
(09:49):
it's something that's probablyon a t shirt. Someone has that
on a t shirt. Yeah, yeah. So Iwas thinking anyway, I was
thinking aboutThis now I want to say so now I
have another confession becauseI just had a confession. Okay.
This one's really dirty. It'sreally bad.
(10:11):
Did she say dirty? I feel I feelfilthy. Oh my gosh, what is
about to happen?
This episode just got better. Ihope I hope this is not lame,
whatever you're about, oh, Ijust used the word again. Y'all.
I'm really gonna try. It's an80s. And we're gonna get I know,
I feel like as a Gen X. Sothere's always these words I use
(10:34):
that I'm constantly having torethink and not say and, yeah.
Okay, now back to you.
I have been.
Oh my gosh, I've been watching ashow. Show.
Vanderpump Rules and it is sotoxic. And I am obsessed. I
(10:59):
can't stop watching it. Do youfeel like do you feel like
meaner? I do. I feel meaner. Ifeel like when I when I'm done
with episodes, I feel like in ahole. I feel like I'm in a bad
mood. Yeah, but I can't stopwatching them. Like with below
deck where I just felt likeI just didn't. Maybe it was the
best use of my time. But it waslike, I wasn't paying that close
(11:22):
of attention.
People are so hateful on theshow. Yeah, they are. So they
have so many issues. Likethere's so and of course, you
know, there's this fun part oflike armchair diagnosis, like
when you're watching some ofthese things that like oh,
relational things like with thebachelor. You know, I can watch
(11:46):
that and kind of suspend a lotof it because there's some
pettiness and all of that, butit's not this deep
in your life every day.
That you just are really, it'sjust yeah, like this is your
life. It's yeah, it's kind ofdepressing. I can't get a job.
I'm actually I feel like Ishouldn't say I'm addicted to
(12:08):
it. I can't start watching it.
Because I saw that there wasthis big blow up right. And I
don't know anything. I know alittle bit about what happened.
They don't know a lot, but I'mwatching the seasons. When did
you start on one you instructedall the way back?
How many it's been on for years?
Oh my god, and I'm only onSeason Six right now.
(12:35):
And I have to get to 10 I guessbecause I love it. I watched
last season once like theheadlines started coming out. I
was like alright, what is thiswhat's going on and I watched
last season so that I could seethe betrayal or whatever I came
in remember what it they hadsome stupid name for it.
And it was pretty good realityTV in terms of reality TV
(12:58):
standards. But I did feel likemy soul rotted a little. Okay, I
feel rotten. That's exactly howI feel. I feel rotten. And
so I know the there's the thethe love triangle, like there
was this betrayal, right? But Idon't know anything about these
people until I started watchingfrom season one. And I have to
(13:22):
see it through because okay,this is gonna I don't know no
one the 20 people listening aregonna care about it. Either.
Don't watch this or they,whatever. I'm not there yet. I
don't know what happened. But Ireally like Tom Sandoval.
likable guy, and so no, and Ilove him. And Ariana is
(13:43):
relationship like she's totallycool. In the show. She's
probably the most likable personon the show. As far as like,
she's kind of got an arm'slength distance from some of the
stuff. AndI know he is the villain. And I
think we need I think we need togo to Bravo Khan.
(14:04):
Maybe maybe, so I'm watching himbelieve you just said you really
like him? No, he's you have why?
No, I did in the very beginningwhen the show first came out. I
did watch it some. But I don'tknow. He just reminds me of one
of those hyperactive kind ofkids who's like really into all
these different things. Like,you know, I know people say, Oh,
maybe he had like a good edit orwhatever. I don't know. And I
(14:26):
don't know all the details. I'mreally watching it, like start
to finish to see like how it allunfolds. But so even though you
feel rotten. Yeah, you'recommitted to the decay of your
soul. Yeah, I feellike I feel like saying it out
loud. I need to say a lotbecause I'm the only one that
(14:48):
knows this is happening otherthan you now. And everyone who's
listening.
Jason knows Jason knows. He'she's probably did that.
Brother. Yeah. And I realize Idon't really need to watch all
the episodes, I need to probablyjust go through just watch the
reunion, like for the nextcouple of seasons and then watch
(15:12):
the last season just so I canlike put it to bed. Yeah.
Because here's the thing, I wason that below deck, you know,
train, and I was watching allthose and I was enjoying it. And
there, I watched all of theseasons. And then I got to the
current season and waiting wetweak. It's not that
(15:33):
interesting. I'm not that intoit. It's like, yeah, just kind
of went away. So I know it'sgonna go away. It's just certain
storylines. I mean, this is, youknow, it's similar to Taylor and
Travis. It's like, there's astoryline, there's, there's a
couple of characters you getinvested in. And I think, I do
(15:53):
think sometimes, like beingneurodivergent makes this a
little trickier. Because I, Iwill sometimes feel so
entrenched in the story that itwill feel real to me, like, I
will feel like I will havedreams. And this did happen. I
had a dream about Taylor andTravis. And I was friends with
(16:14):
Taylor and we went to a bakery,it was this whole thing. Like
that happens to me, when I getreally entrenched in these kinds
of storylines is that like, myimagination, and my psyche
doesn't keep it as like, this isentertainment. This is a story
this is, you know,you're not seeing everything.
(16:34):
This is not the whole story. Igo all in and feel like really
attached emotionally attached topeople who.
Yeah, they don't give any caresabout me if they're even real.
People.
Just don't believe him is notfictional. I mean, you're like,
(16:55):
oh, not, you know, fictionalcharacters are the best. These
are technically probably someversion of fiction. They are, I
mean, a lot of these shows.
Yeah, they're reshooting things.
They're, you know, they'resomewhat jaded. They're not.
I feel like I've definitely feelmore judgmental. I feel more,
(17:16):
not myself more. And I'm wakingup every day and I'm going on my
walks and thinking, how am Igonna spend my day? And the
sun's not out? And I'm, I'mvacillate between being stuck in
grief, because it's mommy weary.
And we've got this season beforemom's anniversary. And it's
like, but I also want the energyof hope and goodness. And I feel
(17:40):
like I'm sabotaging it with theshow. Yeah, and I can't turn
away.
Mm hmm. You know, there's,there's a comfort and just, I
don't think I want to givemyself permission to hibernate
during this time. I wonderthough, could you tell me like,
(18:01):
let me do a little SE. I'mcurious about this. Like, what
the sensation is, what are thesignals that tell you can't turn
away? What does that feel likein your body? Because it looked
like something justhappened when you were saying
that I can't turn away?
How do you know you can't turnaway?
(18:22):
Well, I can't make it. Iphysically can, but it won't be
cozy.
Yeah, but what what's the what'sthe feeling of I can't turn
away? Does that show upsomewhere in your body? It's
okay, but doesn't it but doesthat show up somewhere?
Well, like all things that causetension, it's in my chest.
(18:45):
Well, not everything that causestension, but a good amount of
things that are anxietyproducing our chest. Thing that
bring my shoulders forward.
Okay, so it's like in your chestup into your shoulders. Yeah.
And they pull forward notserious. Like, when I'm
seriously it's something that'sreally hard. It goes up into my
jaw, it's not that big, butenough discomfort where I just
(19:14):
I just want to do it.
I just want to do it. And I keepgoing back for like, what I
should be doing with my time.
And I think if I had a clearerpicture of what I should be
doing with my time, maybe thatwould be helpful. I have things
I need to be working on. I'vethings that I would I know make
me feel good that I could bedoing.
(19:39):
But I'm, yeah, there's a I'mtrying to.
So what I'm hearing isyou want to watch the show. I do
and it makes you feel yucky butyou want to watch it. Yeah, I
do. And I Yeah. And so there's aproblem for you in that
(20:00):
in that and that it makes youfeel yucky and you still want to
do it. Yes, because I have avery, I have a pretty well
developed Higher Self now,that's like, let's make some
better decisions about thingsthat make you feel good. You
right? It's okay to rest it'sokay to check out that higher
self knows all the balancethings they know. And
(20:22):
I still have this kind of likepart of me. I was about to ask
like, so for those who can'thear the show got her arms
crossed, she looks a little likeher youngest kid. What? How old
do you feel when you feel likethat? I want to watch it anyway.
Oh, man, I mean, Middle School.
(20:48):
Fifth, sixth grade, maybe.
I mean, I definitely had thatthroughout the high school
years, but just a definiteit's my time I can do it. I want
to do. And I know that I can.
And I have this conversationwith you all the time, on our
walks, where you're like, in mymind going?
(21:12):
Yeah, it makes you feel bad. Imean, you know, maybe it's, and
I'm, and then I have these like,things where I'm like, okay, you
know,what, I'll lean into what it
feels like, when I'm writingwhen I'm drawing when I'm doing
these things. And I'm like, thatis actually my safe place. That
(21:32):
is actually my happy place. AndI'm deliberately not sitting in
that to go over here and kickrocks. But I wonder, I wonder if
we could do like a littlethought experiment about this,
becauseI'm also hearing that, like,
there's this younger part thatwants to do it just because, and
(21:59):
and I just wonder, like, what'sso bad about letting her have
what she wants?
And like, what would it looklike? Or feel like if
indulging in this,for this limited engagement? If
it were a practice of like,letting her have what she wants?
(22:20):
Like, rather than a fight withher about it?
Um, I guess the fear of likeit taking over and like me them
fighting another show? And like,how long is this gonna go? And,
you know, where I have that partof me that is more comfortable
(22:44):
and just doing things without areason? I mean, there's a bigger
part of me, it's like, we needto have a reason for all the
things that we do. So there'sthat. And are they responsible?
Are they life giving? Are theymeaning an internet? You know,
all of that, like, do they letyou up and blah, blah, blah, and
I'm, like, dirty show with aquarter to leave me alone. That
(23:06):
part, right, it's like, I canindulge that sometimes. But like
to do this for a stretch, feelsvery self indulgent feels. Semi
destructive, you know, just andI mean, it sounds very on brand
for an adolescent, a preadolescent, young adolescent
(23:30):
didn't get to do that. Yeah.
Not for extended periods oftime. Yeah, except for the fact
that, you know, I think givingmyself permission to do that,
with having been in the seasonof really tough growing pains,
(23:54):
and having stretches of notknowing what's next, or what I'm
gonna do with this part, or thispart of my life, and not having
so many things figured out forso long.
You know, if I had been hypervigilant, over productive work
mode up until this time, I couldfind a little more ease to give
it to myself that there is apermission get Yeah, I know. Oh,
(24:18):
yeah. You need to get that restdeck out that I gave you in that
ministry.
It's rare. But what you justsaid was, if I had been like
working really hard, pushingmyself toward burnout, I could
then give myself permission towatch a CD. That's always been
the cycle, right? The cycle islike, I have to like, go inside
(24:42):
and do these things. And rightnow it's the point you have all
this freedomto like, create and cultivate
something that that reallyspeaks to you and you want to go
in the corner and watch thedirty show. Like what's that? I
need you to stop calling itdirty because it's
(25:02):
a whole other.
Okay. So maybe it is a littleI'm sorry, that is like what you
call that kind of, you know,racy. Yeah. Okay. So, okay. Um,
it's like when I was working forsomebody who was British and I
used the word smart.
(25:28):
And I said, I was referring toreality TV actually. And I was
saying something about it. Ithink that's the word I use
saying about it being kind ofthis like smut or whatever. And
I didn't know that. Hisinterpret it. He was my boss at
the time. But his interpretationof that with his British, their
the way they use that word islike, actually, like, you know,
(25:52):
triple-x like, truly. So infront of him and his boss and
other people. I was tellingthem, I watched a lot of smut.
That's amazing.
That's really bad. That's notthe only thing that got messed
up when I worked for him. Butanyway, so that's kind of what
(26:13):
keeps happening every time yousay, the dirty show. Yeah.
You're telling people,but maybe I would, I would say
more energy, just not resistingand telling myself I should, I
should just do it.
I think I'm just more I'm waymore interested. I'm less
interested in like the actualshow and the watching of it. I'm
(26:33):
way more interested in thiswhole dynamic around, like grown
up Sarah, having a lot ofopinions about
what she isn't isn't doing withher time. She's so judgy. She's
superduty. But that I don't knowthat that's not that. That's not
to say that fully resourced? Me,I don't think that's just the
(26:56):
part she's a part of. Yeah,yeah, I think, you know, and it
could be just all the stuffthat's been brought up with mom,
you know, and like, we talkedabout
this 50 milestone for me, andI'm definitely struggling with
that more this year. I think,with more feelings coming up
more reflection than I've had inprior years of my childhood and
(27:21):
my time with her and all ofthat, that. You know, I mean,
that younger part of myself,just maybe more in the
forefront, like, you know, Idon't know, I just sounds like
she's getting what she wanted.
And that there is some elementof that. That's kind of cool. I
(27:44):
keep telling people thatmenopause is like the second
puberty. Yeah, that makes sense.
I'm definitely watching theshow.
No, there is some there is somelike, yeah, there is some
liberation, just sit, I canwatch whatever show I want to
watch. And you know what I cando what I want with my time, it
(28:06):
is my choice. There may beconsequences for that. And
that's right. It is my choice.
Andyou're not powerless, you're not
powerless to the mood that theshow puts you in either.
That is true. That is true. AndI don't even know if it's
actually the show. I mean, Idon't I could put something else
(28:29):
on I still feel the same way.
Because I kind of feel this way.
A lot during summer year. Sothat is true. Um,
so yeah, I mean, that's kind ofwhere I'm at.
This was so fun.
So this is actually fun for us.
This is how we define fun. Yeah,there it is. There's an example
(28:50):
of why we do the podcast becauseit's actually fun for us talking
about serious things, but I wastrying to give it a different
spin. I can't I don't know Ican. But well, we can. But I
think we just have to acceptthat this is what is kind of
fun. I just want when you're intight ship mode, as when I am
(29:10):
which I'm obviously not.
But, um, it's just so easy forus to go into that mode of
talking. Have you know, likehaving something to talk about?
Oh, yeah. Yeah, like goingwith me. I needed to get out of
(29:31):
the calcium, that nonsense andjust tell you watch it.
Vanderpump Rules and just youknow, yeah, I get it. I and I
needed it to and I yeah, Ineeded it to. I went to
doughnuts with grownups thismorning. Okay, it's good name.
It was yeah, it was fine. AndI'm getting a tattoo tonight.
(29:51):
Oh, you're actually getting ittonight. I'm doing it. Wow. Five
o'clock. Oh my gosh. You Yeah.
What? It's a big deal. I know,even with your incomplete story.
Well, I actually talked to herat the end of the session. I was
like so with the tattootomorrow, and she gave me a
(30:12):
homework of playing some gameswith the kids that would startle
me so I could play with thestartle response. And like, let
my body feel into it a littlebit in a way that isn't like
related to a stressfulencounter.
So interesting. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, I booked another sessionwith her immediately because I
(30:34):
was like, Okay, we got more totalk about.
Anyway, all right. All right.
Fun to see you.
was, this was fun. I liked this.
Alright, good. All right. I loveyou. Bye. Love you too. Bye.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
This is Gavin Newsom
I’m Gavin Newsom. And, it’s time to have a conversation. It’s time to have honest discussions with people that agree AND disagree with us. It's time to answer the hard questions and be open to criticism, and debate without demeaning or dehumanizing one other. I will be doing just that on my new podcast – inviting people on who I deeply disagree with to talk about the most pressing issues of the day and inviting listeners from around the country to join the conversation. THIS is Gavin Newsom.