April 2, 2026 • 29 mins
All employers are required to provide their employees with a workplace that is free from temperature-related hazards, yet a rule proposed by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) would add an unnecessary new layer of one-size-fits-all red tape for small businesses. NFIB member Kevin Ciak explains how this harmful rule would affect his business and employees, and U.S. Representative Mark Messmer discusses pro-small business legislation in Congress that would stop the unnecessary rule.
- Tell your members of Congress to support the Heat Workforce Standards Act and protect small businesses from unnecessary, one-size-fits-all OSHA regulations.
- Learn more about the proposal from NFIB’s issue explainer.
Please rate, review, or like this podcast to support small business issues.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_03 (00:00):
Small businesses are already taking those steps
because they either share thesame values that General Pallet
does, that people truly matter,and we want our people every day
to go home safe and be withtheir families.
And in addition to that, we'relooking to grow our businesses,
and we don't want thedistraction associated with an
(00:21):
employee getting injured.
So as we said earlier, this is asolution in search of a problem
that small businesses acrossAmerica are already on top of
and already addressing.
SPEAKER_04 (00:32):
The Small Business Rundown is the official podcast
of the National Federation ofIndependent Business, the
member-driven voice of smallbusiness.
Every two weeks, a new episodeoffers resources for small
business owners and informationon relevant laws and
regulations.
NFIB and our members advocate tokeep U.S.
(00:52):
small businesses strong andindependent in Washington, D.C.,
all fifty states, and thenation's courts.
SPEAKER_00 (01:55):
So they investigate workplace incidents.
They have enforcementmechanisms, including fines.
Essentially any workplaceinjury, things that could be
hazardous in the workplace isunder OSHA's purview.
And they are the key regulatoron the heat standard.
They are the uh agency that hasproposed this, and they are the
agency that would oversee thesemandates.
SPEAKER_02 (02:35):
That's correct.
SPEAKER_00 (02:36):
OSHA is a floor, so the federal government is a
floor on workplace health andsafety, so OSHA can set a floor
for states, and then states thathave their own essentially OSHA
equivalents can go further, andthey can impose more mandates,
more requirements on businessesthat go above the federal
government.
(03:06):
It's definitely a solutionlooking for a problem.
There is no good I have notheard a good argument.
I have not seen any data thathas shown that workplace heat is
a pervasive issue, that there'sa need for the federal
government to step in andregulate on this issue.
Small businesses are alreadytaking care of their employees.
They are already taking steps tomake sure that there's not
incidents at their workplaces.
(03:27):
Small businesses, theirreputation is everything.
And so they want to keep theiremployees safe.
They want to make sure thatthere's no incidents at their
workplace, and they they don't,OSHA has come second.
They don't want, obviously, theydon't want the investigation
enforcement, but keeping theirworkers safe is is number one.
SPEAKER_02 (03:51):
Sure.
SPEAKER_03 (03:52):
So General Pallet is a pallet manufacturer and
recycler.
We also do custom crating aswell.
We're located in Flemington, NewJersey.
We also have a national networkof partners that enable us to
produce pallets across thecountry cost effectively for our
clients.
And these roles would have asignificant impact on us because
(04:13):
most of our warehouses are notair conditioned and some of our
pallet operations are outside.
What's concerning and more thananything is the uh additional
reporting requirements, becauseas a small business, you know,
we're not like a largecorporation that has lots and
lots of people.
Reporting requirements typicallyfall upon a very small amount of
(04:35):
people, and these roles havesignificant reporting
requirements associated withthem.
(04:58):
So that's that's actually agreat question because all of
the tenets of the practicalimplementation of what these
rules are asking us to do from aprotection standpoint are
actually already in place.
And Dylan, I think you hit it,this really is a solution in
search of a problem.
So, in terms of you know whatyou you asked about, really the
(05:19):
prevention begins long before itactually gets hot outside.
So for us, when we onboard a newemployee, even if it's in the
middle of January, part of theironboarding training is a whole
segment on heat management.
That training is repeatedannually, typically in May or
June, before the hot weatherstarts to really take hold in
(05:40):
the northeast for all of ouremployees again.
Most of our employees do work ina warehouse.
While the warehouse is not airconditioned, we've got very
large fans that are circulatingair and keeping air moving.
We've also got additional floorfans out on the floor to keep
air moving to keep our employeescool.
We have the normal requiredmandated breaks in the morning,
(06:02):
in the afternoon, and lunch.
When the temperature gets above90, especially with the
humidity, we typically haveadditional brakes that are in
place during the day to allowour employees time to cool off.
We supply our employees withflavored ice.
We've got a chilled waterdispenser in our break room.
We provide in the summer waterbottles for all of our employees
(06:24):
so that they can go and filltheir water bottles.
So we've got all of theprocedures in place to help you
know maintain a safe workingenvironment.
And these have been in place foryears, you know, ever since my
business partner and I boughtthe company five years ago.
(06:45):
So the main thing it wouldchange is really the additional
burden of all the recordkeeping.
Under the requirements, we wouldneed to track the temperature,
we would need to track thehumidity.
And then associated with eachone of those, we would need to
document all of the actions thatwe're taking in response to
those changing conditions.
And that ultimately means adistraction from growth.
(07:08):
It ultimately means we may needto hire someone.
If you hire more people, thatmeans the cost of your product
goes up.
If the cost of your product isgoing up, that means inflation
across America.
If you've got inflation acrossAmerica, then that's a further
challenge for the price ofproduct and consumption.
SPEAKER_00 (07:39):
The Hill is unaware of this for a large part.
There is a champion and thenco-sponsors, but a lot of Hill
staff, a lot of members ofCongress don't even realize that
this is still out there.
A lot of small business ownersacross the country don't even
realize that this is a threat totheir business, that this even
is out there, is proposed.
And yet this is a massivethreat.
There's businesses that don'tknow of all the mandates, and
(08:01):
yet they may face thisenforcement action and these new
mandates because they aren't incompliance should this become
finalized.
And so the administrationlargely is not commenting.
And so that's the big concern isthat this could still happen.
This is still out there, it'snot gone yet.
And the Hill does need to stepin and say, no, there should not
(08:23):
be a federal heat standard.
The administration shouldwithdraw this rule.
And small business owners, likeKevin said, may have to hire new
employees, may have to raiseprices because of those new
costs.
The rule in itself isparticularly burdensome to small
businesses compared to thelarger competitors because they
don't have a compliancedepartment.
They don't have a humanresources in some cases.
(08:43):
And so this really does fall onthe business owner who is
running their business and maynot have time to do these new
mandates, this new paperwork.
And so it may end up forcing anew employee or more in some
cases just to comply with therule.
(10:14):
But states we've also seen, andTim, you may be able to hit on
this, include a private right ofaction so workers could
potentially sue if theirbusiness is not providing this
to them.
And so that would beparticularly costly to small
businesses if that if that wereto be passed and enacted.
SPEAKER_03 (11:20):
And these rules are really no different.
The other thing that I would sayis in addition to reaching out,
sometimes I found it verydifficult where I'll, you know,
reach out to a member ofCongress or the Congressional
Staff Office, and I kind of getthe runaround from their staff,
and I get a message of, hey,listen, I'll convey it to the
congressman and I'll follow itup with a question always, well,
(11:41):
what is the congressman'sposition?
And it's well, I'll convey yourconcern.
And I don't really get a clearanswer back, and I don't really
get a good feeling that myconcern is being adequately
conveyed.
That is really an opportunity ifyou're a member of NFIB to get
in touch with NFIB because theycan be very instrumental in
opening that door and actuallysecuring that meeting between
(12:04):
you and the elected official toallow you to share that concern
directly.
NFIB has been instrumental insecuring actually congressional
support as a result of thosemeetings as well.
So you've been an incrediblepartner.
SPEAKER_00 (12:54):
This one being no different.
And then on top of that, likeKevin said, having going in and
wanting to meet with your memberof Congress moves mountains.
And so having a real smallbusiness owner in front of an
elected official goes a lotfarther than some lobbyist in
D.C.
And so telling a real worldstory of I am a small business
owner in your district, and thisheat standard or any other issue
(13:15):
is particularly burdensome.
And this is why member Congressis going to be very likely to
act on that issue.
SPEAKER_03 (13:39):
So the reporting burden that comes with these
rules is a distraction.
By the same token, having anemployee injured for any reason
is also a distraction becauseyou've got filings that you need
to do with OSHA.
You've got a worker's compclaim, your insurance rates go
up.
(13:59):
We have every reason, purelyfrom a financial standpoint as a
business owner to ensure thatour employees are safe every
single day.
Beyond the financial piece, atGeneral Pallet, our values are
integrity, relationships, andresults.
And in particular, you've gotintegrity and you've got
(14:22):
relationships, which tell usthat we look out for people, we
treat them well, whether it'sour clients or whether it's our
associates.
So at the heart of what thelegislation is trying to
accomplish, many smallbusinesses are already taking
those steps because they eithershare the same values that
(14:42):
General Pallet does, that peopletruly matter, and we want our
people every day to go home safeand be with their families.
And in addition to that, we'relooking to grow our businesses,
and we don't want thedistraction associated with an
employee getting injured.
So as we said earlier, thisreally is legislation that is a
(15:03):
solution in search of a problemthat small businesses across
America are already on top ofand already addressing.
SPEAKER_04 (15:38):
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It will facilitate competition,cut costs, and shorten lengthy
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SPEAKER_01 (16:35):
These kind of examples of egregious,
heavy-handed overreach by thefederal government are exactly
what I came to Washington tofight.
Sure.
So I'm a uh second generationbusiness owner.
Our dad started our plumbing andheating business in 1970.
Me and my two brothers boughtthem out about 25 years ago.
(16:57):
And now we're in the process ofuh transitioning to my son and
my nephew for the thirdgeneration of ownership.
We have about 50 employees.
We work in southwest Indiana andanywhere within about an hour to
an hour and a half of Jasper,which is my hometown.
I was a mechanical engineeringgraduate from Purdu University
and a licensed professionalengineer.
And our company does a lot ofdesign build and mechanical
(17:19):
construction.
We do commercial and industrialplumbing and HVAC primarily.
One of our largest customers isthe Crane Naval Surface Warfare
Center, and uh, which which waskind of the issue affecting them
potentially in the 2005 BRAC isreally what launched my desire
to seek public office, you know,and eventually led me to serve
in Congress.
(17:50):
Well, sure.
So the heat standard is probablyone of the most egregious,
onerous record keeping bills andthe punitive fines for
non-compliance.
It requires whether you'reinside or out, summer or winter,
Florida to North Dakota, anytimeyou have a heat within a
15-minute increment over 80degrees, you have to record
(18:14):
those temperatures at every worksite, every job site, every
place your employees areworking.
And if you hit a 15-minutewindow over 80 degrees, that
means every 15 minutes, you oryour employees are logging and
and and record keeping thattemperature impact on your
employees.
Well, 80 degrees, your your airconditioning could go out in
(18:35):
your restaurant.
And it could be 80 degrees.
And that means all of yourwaitresses and all of your
cashiers all have to have amandated break every you know
every two hours into anair-conditioned environment.
Well, good luck with that ifyou're an asphalt crew or a
roofing contractor or a farmer.
I mean, it is absolute nonsense.
(18:57):
And I could be on a constructionsite where it might be 75
degrees on the first floor andit might be 80 degrees on the
second floor.
So, you know, we we've got aconstruction business.
We could be on 10 differentconstruction sites a day.
That means all of those have tohave that record keeping.
I could have 10 service guysthat visit three different
customers throughout the day.
(19:18):
I mean, that's 30 work sites.
And each one has to bemonitored, recorded, and then
the mandated water breaks,mandated rest breaks, you know,
in air conditioning every twohours.
It would be the most god-awfulpiece of rulemaking and
regulation that, and and and itpunitively hits small businesses
worse than anybody.
I mean, if you have a thousandemployees and they're all
(19:40):
working in the same space, youmight take one person to monitor
and record and and carry thatout.
Well, if you have five people atyour business or ten people at
your business, it takes the samerecord keeping for five or ten
that it does for a thousand.
So it's going to punitively hitsmall businesses more than
anybody.
And there's and there's no carveout, there's no exemption for
(20:01):
you know companies under 25 or50 or 100 people.
It's one standard onerousregulation for everybody.
And so when I got elected lastyear, or in 2024 now, that heat
standard rule had just beenrolled out.
And one of the first bills Ifiled was the Congressional
Review Act to repeal that ruleby OSHA.
And it took probably nine monthsfor the labor secretary to
(20:26):
understand.
She said, Well, we want to putone standard in place for the
country to keep blue states fromover-regulating their employees.
And I said, ma'am, it doesn'twork that way.
The OSHA standard is the minimumstandard, and it's not going to
stop California or New York orany other blue state from
ratcheting up from there.
So it's not going to have theintended purpose that you want
(20:49):
to try to put a cap on it.
It sets the floor.
And so finally by September,they said, you know, we agree
with Representative Mesmer, andthe president has agreed, you
know, if we get theCongressional Review Act through
the House, simple majority,through the Senate, simple
majority, and the presidentsigns it, it blocks OSHA from
ever regulating in that spaceagain unless they have
(21:10):
congressional authority.
(22:00):
You know, just because Virginiawants to do it, or just because
California wants to do it, goodluck.
And what they're going to end updoing is continuing to drive
businesses out of those states.
You know, if Illinois wants todo it, great.
We'll gladly take thosecompanies relocating into
Indiana, which has happened on alarge scale already anyway.
It would just push businessesout of those states when it was
(22:21):
physically possible into statesthat have less restrictive
regulations.
And the general duty clause, youknow, under OSHA already
requires.
I mean, just under the generalduty clause, it gives employer
employers flexibility to doexactly what this onerous, you
know, the outcome.
Me as an employer, I do not wantmy employees to undergo a heat
(22:42):
illness.
And we bend over backwards tomake sure that our people have
breaks, you know, get water.
I mean, there's no restrictionson employees getting water on a
job site.
But the general duty clauserequires all employers to
properly take care of youremployees in the situation that
you know that the heat standardis trying to regulate
prescriptively and onerously.
unknown (23:03):
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_00 (23:03):
You hit a great point there, Congressman, is
that the General Duties Clauseis already an enforcement
mechanism for OSHA for badactors in this space.
And for listeners who don'tknow, General Duties Clause
requires all employers tomaintain a health and safety
workplace.
And OSHA is very publicly openabout heat being covered under
(23:24):
that.
And what we hear is smallbusinesses owners are already
taking care of their employees.
They're already putting thingsin place to make sure that these
injuries and illnesses are nothappening.
But really, all this heatstandard is doing is adding new
mandates on small businesses whowho may not have the resources
to actively comply with theirexisting workforce.
They may have to hire, they mayhave to do other things.
(23:46):
And so I think you hit the nailon the head that this really
does not add any enforcementmechanism for OSHA, but really
is just employer mandates orsmall businesses that quite
frankly just don't make anysense.
SPEAKER_01 (23:56):
Right.
Well, I I mean, I made thisexample when we had the hearing
on the heat rule in theEducation Workforce Committee
last summer.
I said, my 50 years of beinginvolved in our family business
with hundreds of employeesworking on construction sites
with thousands of otheremployees, I have never seen one
time an employee on one of thosejob sites have a heat-related
(24:19):
illness.
And I can't, I cannot be theoutlier.
It's just not possible.
Because as a business owner,your employees are your most
valuable resource.
And we're not going to doanything that would put them in
harm's way.
And we work in hundreds offactories and industrial
settings.
And those businesses go out oftheir way to provide cooling
(24:39):
relief if they don't have airconditioned plants.
They go out of their way tocreate work conditions that take
care of their employees.
Because if you don't haveemployees to carry out what your
business does, you're shootingyourself in the foot.
So I have never seen a heatillness on a job.
And I cannot be the outlier.
There's more people in New Yorkand Chicago on a hot summer day
(25:00):
that are elderly people thatlive in an apartment with no air
conditioning that suffer, youknow, heat injuries than I've
ever seen on a constructionsite.
SPEAKER_00 (25:08):
Right.
Solution in search of a problem.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (25:42):
I mean, good luck in Chicago in the wintertime
getting anything done if you'rea construction operator of uh of
any kind.
Yep, so Bill Cassidy, SenatorCassidy is the chair of the
(26:04):
committee that would have thatbill on the Senate side.
He's agreed to be the Senatesponsor of this Congressional
Review Act.
And we've got a lot ofco-sponsors already.
If people want to reach out totheir congressmen and they
haven't co-sponsored this billyet, reach out to their elected
officials and ask them to get onboard with this heat standard
repeal.
We've been told, simplemajority, you know, the Senate
(26:27):
uh chair Bill Cassidy will bethe sponsor in the Senate, and
the president has said we get itthrough the House and the
Senate, he will sign it.
Well, right now it's had thehearing in committee, and so now
(26:47):
we're waiting for it to bescheduled for markup and the
education workforce committee.
I've talked to the chairman TimWahberg several times about
getting it on the calendar.
He's not committed to a dateyet, but but he understands the
importance of it.
Like I said, when we had thehearing you know on it, there
was we had set you know severalindustry groups, you know, come
in and testify in support of thebill.
(27:08):
I think the National Federationof Independent Businesses was
one of the industry groups thatwas there in support of it.
We've had 60 different businessassociations all endorse this
legislation.
So we just need to get itcalendared.
Uh, but the more Republicansponsors we have on the bill,
the more likely the chairmanwill get it on the agenda sooner
rather than later.
(27:29):
The rule hasn't been finalized,so our clock to get it done has
not started ticking yet.
When a rule is finallypromulgated, I think you have 60
session days to carry aCongressional Review Act bill
through the process.
So our our clock has not startedto run, but we definitely want
to get it done sooner ratherthan later.
So as soon as, you know, thesooner we can get more sponsors
(27:52):
and get more of our caucusmembers on board, the sooner we
can get it out of committee andI'm certain it'll pass.
And I would be pretty sure we'vewe had a a couple of uh Democrat
uh co-authors when when we filedthe bill, so hopefully we can
make it a bipartisan effort,which it should be.
(28:19):
Well, no, I appreciate yourtime.
It it's an honor to be hererepresenting small businesses
for my district and across thestate and across the country.
We need more small businessowners in Congress and at the
state level.
And at the state level, why doeswhy does Indiana's process seem
to work so well?
Because the majority of theRepublicans in the House and the
Senate are business owners.
(28:39):
And you get a lot better productwhen you have people who
understand the impact onbusiness at all levels.
And uh it's it's an honor to behere and uh honor to be an NFIB
member serving in DC and lookforward to continuing to work to
protect small businesses everyday.
SPEAKER_02 (28:55):
You're welcome.
SPEAKER_00 (29:01):
Yeah, the Congressman made the call to
action for small businesses toreach out to their members of
Congress on the heat standard.
You can do that through the linkin the show notes.
It would be great if our memberswould reach out to the members
of Congress and let them knowhow burdensome this heat
standard would be on theirbusiness and why Congress should
repeal it.
SPEAKER_04 (29:21):
Thanks for joining us for this week's episode of
the Small Business Rundown.
Your continued support helps usamplify the issues that matter
most.
If you like this episode, pleasehelp small business owners find
the podcast by giving it arating, like, or review.
You can find us at nfib.com andon YouTube, X, LinkedIn,
(29:42):
Instagram, and Facebook.
Small businesses are already taking those steps
because they either share thesame values that General Pallet
does, that people truly matter,and we want our people every day
to go home safe and be withtheir families.
And in addition to that, we'relooking to grow our businesses,
and we don't want thedistraction associated with an
(00:21):
employee getting injured.
So as we said earlier, this is asolution in search of a problem
that small businesses acrossAmerica are already on top of
and already addressing.
SPEAKER_04 (00:32):
The Small Business Rundown is the official podcast
of the National Federation ofIndependent Business, the
member-driven voice of smallbusiness.
Every two weeks, a new episodeoffers resources for small
business owners and informationon relevant laws and
regulations.
NFIB and our members advocate tokeep U.S.
(00:52):
small businesses strong andindependent in Washington, D.C.,
all fifty states, and thenation's courts.
SPEAKER_00 (01:55):
So they investigate workplace incidents.
They have enforcementmechanisms, including fines.
Essentially any workplaceinjury, things that could be
hazardous in the workplace isunder OSHA's purview.
And they are the key regulatoron the heat standard.
They are the uh agency that hasproposed this, and they are the
agency that would oversee thesemandates.
SPEAKER_02 (02:35):
That's correct.
SPEAKER_00 (02:36):
OSHA is a floor, so the federal government is a
floor on workplace health andsafety, so OSHA can set a floor
for states, and then states thathave their own essentially OSHA
equivalents can go further, andthey can impose more mandates,
more requirements on businessesthat go above the federal
government.
(03:06):
It's definitely a solutionlooking for a problem.
There is no good I have notheard a good argument.
I have not seen any data thathas shown that workplace heat is
a pervasive issue, that there'sa need for the federal
government to step in andregulate on this issue.
Small businesses are alreadytaking care of their employees.
They are already taking steps tomake sure that there's not
incidents at their workplaces.
(03:27):
Small businesses, theirreputation is everything.
And so they want to keep theiremployees safe.
They want to make sure thatthere's no incidents at their
workplace, and they they don't,OSHA has come second.
They don't want, obviously, theydon't want the investigation
enforcement, but keeping theirworkers safe is is number one.
SPEAKER_02 (03:51):
Sure.
SPEAKER_03 (03:52):
So General Pallet is a pallet manufacturer and
recycler.
We also do custom crating aswell.
We're located in Flemington, NewJersey.
We also have a national networkof partners that enable us to
produce pallets across thecountry cost effectively for our
clients.
And these roles would have asignificant impact on us because
(04:13):
most of our warehouses are notair conditioned and some of our
pallet operations are outside.
What's concerning and more thananything is the uh additional
reporting requirements, becauseas a small business, you know,
we're not like a largecorporation that has lots and
lots of people.
Reporting requirements typicallyfall upon a very small amount of
(04:35):
people, and these roles havesignificant reporting
requirements associated withthem.
(04:58):
So that's that's actually agreat question because all of
the tenets of the practicalimplementation of what these
rules are asking us to do from aprotection standpoint are
actually already in place.
And Dylan, I think you hit it,this really is a solution in
search of a problem.
So, in terms of you know whatyou you asked about, really the
(05:19):
prevention begins long before itactually gets hot outside.
So for us, when we onboard a newemployee, even if it's in the
middle of January, part of theironboarding training is a whole
segment on heat management.
That training is repeatedannually, typically in May or
June, before the hot weatherstarts to really take hold in
(05:40):
the northeast for all of ouremployees again.
Most of our employees do work ina warehouse.
While the warehouse is not airconditioned, we've got very
large fans that are circulatingair and keeping air moving.
We've also got additional floorfans out on the floor to keep
air moving to keep our employeescool.
We have the normal requiredmandated breaks in the morning,
(06:02):
in the afternoon, and lunch.
When the temperature gets above90, especially with the
humidity, we typically haveadditional brakes that are in
place during the day to allowour employees time to cool off.
We supply our employees withflavored ice.
We've got a chilled waterdispenser in our break room.
We provide in the summer waterbottles for all of our employees
(06:24):
so that they can go and filltheir water bottles.
So we've got all of theprocedures in place to help you
know maintain a safe workingenvironment.
And these have been in place foryears, you know, ever since my
business partner and I boughtthe company five years ago.
(06:45):
So the main thing it wouldchange is really the additional
burden of all the recordkeeping.
Under the requirements, we wouldneed to track the temperature,
we would need to track thehumidity.
And then associated with eachone of those, we would need to
document all of the actions thatwe're taking in response to
those changing conditions.
And that ultimately means adistraction from growth.
(07:08):
It ultimately means we may needto hire someone.
If you hire more people, thatmeans the cost of your product
goes up.
If the cost of your product isgoing up, that means inflation
across America.
If you've got inflation acrossAmerica, then that's a further
challenge for the price ofproduct and consumption.
SPEAKER_00 (07:39):
The Hill is unaware of this for a large part.
There is a champion and thenco-sponsors, but a lot of Hill
staff, a lot of members ofCongress don't even realize that
this is still out there.
A lot of small business ownersacross the country don't even
realize that this is a threat totheir business, that this even
is out there, is proposed.
And yet this is a massivethreat.
There's businesses that don'tknow of all the mandates, and
(08:01):
yet they may face thisenforcement action and these new
mandates because they aren't incompliance should this become
finalized.
And so the administrationlargely is not commenting.
And so that's the big concern isthat this could still happen.
This is still out there, it'snot gone yet.
And the Hill does need to stepin and say, no, there should not
(08:23):
be a federal heat standard.
The administration shouldwithdraw this rule.
And small business owners, likeKevin said, may have to hire new
employees, may have to raiseprices because of those new
costs.
The rule in itself isparticularly burdensome to small
businesses compared to thelarger competitors because they
don't have a compliancedepartment.
They don't have a humanresources in some cases.
(08:43):
And so this really does fall onthe business owner who is
running their business and maynot have time to do these new
mandates, this new paperwork.
And so it may end up forcing anew employee or more in some
cases just to comply with therule.
(10:14):
But states we've also seen, andTim, you may be able to hit on
this, include a private right ofaction so workers could
potentially sue if theirbusiness is not providing this
to them.
And so that would beparticularly costly to small
businesses if that if that wereto be passed and enacted.
SPEAKER_03 (11:20):
And these rules are really no different.
The other thing that I would sayis in addition to reaching out,
sometimes I found it verydifficult where I'll, you know,
reach out to a member ofCongress or the Congressional
Staff Office, and I kind of getthe runaround from their staff,
and I get a message of, hey,listen, I'll convey it to the
congressman and I'll follow itup with a question always, well,
(11:41):
what is the congressman'sposition?
And it's well, I'll convey yourconcern.
And I don't really get a clearanswer back, and I don't really
get a good feeling that myconcern is being adequately
conveyed.
That is really an opportunity ifyou're a member of NFIB to get
in touch with NFIB because theycan be very instrumental in
opening that door and actuallysecuring that meeting between
(12:04):
you and the elected official toallow you to share that concern
directly.
NFIB has been instrumental insecuring actually congressional
support as a result of thosemeetings as well.
So you've been an incrediblepartner.
SPEAKER_00 (12:54):
This one being no different.
And then on top of that, likeKevin said, having going in and
wanting to meet with your memberof Congress moves mountains.
And so having a real smallbusiness owner in front of an
elected official goes a lotfarther than some lobbyist in
D.C.
And so telling a real worldstory of I am a small business
owner in your district, and thisheat standard or any other issue
(13:15):
is particularly burdensome.
And this is why member Congressis going to be very likely to
act on that issue.
SPEAKER_03 (13:39):
So the reporting burden that comes with these
rules is a distraction.
By the same token, having anemployee injured for any reason
is also a distraction becauseyou've got filings that you need
to do with OSHA.
You've got a worker's compclaim, your insurance rates go
up.
(13:59):
We have every reason, purelyfrom a financial standpoint as a
business owner to ensure thatour employees are safe every
single day.
Beyond the financial piece, atGeneral Pallet, our values are
integrity, relationships, andresults.
And in particular, you've gotintegrity and you've got
(14:22):
relationships, which tell usthat we look out for people, we
treat them well, whether it'sour clients or whether it's our
associates.
So at the heart of what thelegislation is trying to
accomplish, many smallbusinesses are already taking
those steps because they eithershare the same values that
(14:42):
General Pallet does, that peopletruly matter, and we want our
people every day to go home safeand be with their families.
And in addition to that, we'relooking to grow our businesses,
and we don't want thedistraction associated with an
employee getting injured.
So as we said earlier, thisreally is legislation that is a
(15:03):
solution in search of a problemthat small businesses across
America are already on top ofand already addressing.
SPEAKER_04 (15:38):
Large-scale manufacturers are currently
restricting access to criticaldata and parts for independent
autobody shops and equipmentrepair shops, resulting in
inflated costs and delays forcustomers.
The Repair Act will remove thesebarriers and give small
businesses the information theyneed to fix vehicles and
electronics.
(15:58):
It will facilitate competition,cut costs, and shorten lengthy
repair times for consumers.
Take action now and let membersof Congress know why they should
support the Repair Act atnfib.com slash take action.
SPEAKER_01 (16:35):
These kind of examples of egregious,
heavy-handed overreach by thefederal government are exactly
what I came to Washington tofight.
Sure.
So I'm a uh second generationbusiness owner.
Our dad started our plumbing andheating business in 1970.
Me and my two brothers boughtthem out about 25 years ago.
(16:57):
And now we're in the process ofuh transitioning to my son and
my nephew for the thirdgeneration of ownership.
We have about 50 employees.
We work in southwest Indiana andanywhere within about an hour to
an hour and a half of Jasper,which is my hometown.
I was a mechanical engineeringgraduate from Purdu University
and a licensed professionalengineer.
And our company does a lot ofdesign build and mechanical
(17:19):
construction.
We do commercial and industrialplumbing and HVAC primarily.
One of our largest customers isthe Crane Naval Surface Warfare
Center, and uh, which which waskind of the issue affecting them
potentially in the 2005 BRAC isreally what launched my desire
to seek public office, you know,and eventually led me to serve
in Congress.
(17:50):
Well, sure.
So the heat standard is probablyone of the most egregious,
onerous record keeping bills andthe punitive fines for
non-compliance.
It requires whether you'reinside or out, summer or winter,
Florida to North Dakota, anytimeyou have a heat within a
15-minute increment over 80degrees, you have to record
(18:14):
those temperatures at every worksite, every job site, every
place your employees areworking.
And if you hit a 15-minutewindow over 80 degrees, that
means every 15 minutes, you oryour employees are logging and
and and record keeping thattemperature impact on your
employees.
Well, 80 degrees, your your airconditioning could go out in
(18:35):
your restaurant.
And it could be 80 degrees.
And that means all of yourwaitresses and all of your
cashiers all have to have amandated break every you know
every two hours into anair-conditioned environment.
Well, good luck with that ifyou're an asphalt crew or a
roofing contractor or a farmer.
I mean, it is absolute nonsense.
(18:57):
And I could be on a constructionsite where it might be 75
degrees on the first floor andit might be 80 degrees on the
second floor.
So, you know, we we've got aconstruction business.
We could be on 10 differentconstruction sites a day.
That means all of those have tohave that record keeping.
I could have 10 service guysthat visit three different
customers throughout the day.
(19:18):
I mean, that's 30 work sites.
And each one has to bemonitored, recorded, and then
the mandated water breaks,mandated rest breaks, you know,
in air conditioning every twohours.
It would be the most god-awfulpiece of rulemaking and
regulation that, and and and itpunitively hits small businesses
worse than anybody.
I mean, if you have a thousandemployees and they're all
(19:40):
working in the same space, youmight take one person to monitor
and record and and carry thatout.
Well, if you have five people atyour business or ten people at
your business, it takes the samerecord keeping for five or ten
that it does for a thousand.
So it's going to punitively hitsmall businesses more than
anybody.
And there's and there's no carveout, there's no exemption for
(20:01):
you know companies under 25 or50 or 100 people.
It's one standard onerousregulation for everybody.
And so when I got elected lastyear, or in 2024 now, that heat
standard rule had just beenrolled out.
And one of the first bills Ifiled was the Congressional
Review Act to repeal that ruleby OSHA.
And it took probably nine monthsfor the labor secretary to
(20:26):
understand.
She said, Well, we want to putone standard in place for the
country to keep blue states fromover-regulating their employees.
And I said, ma'am, it doesn'twork that way.
The OSHA standard is the minimumstandard, and it's not going to
stop California or New York orany other blue state from
ratcheting up from there.
So it's not going to have theintended purpose that you want
(20:49):
to try to put a cap on it.
It sets the floor.
And so finally by September,they said, you know, we agree
with Representative Mesmer, andthe president has agreed, you
know, if we get theCongressional Review Act through
the House, simple majority,through the Senate, simple
majority, and the presidentsigns it, it blocks OSHA from
ever regulating in that spaceagain unless they have
(21:10):
congressional authority.
(22:00):
You know, just because Virginiawants to do it, or just because
California wants to do it, goodluck.
And what they're going to end updoing is continuing to drive
businesses out of those states.
You know, if Illinois wants todo it, great.
We'll gladly take thosecompanies relocating into
Indiana, which has happened on alarge scale already anyway.
It would just push businessesout of those states when it was
(22:21):
physically possible into statesthat have less restrictive
regulations.
And the general duty clause, youknow, under OSHA already
requires.
I mean, just under the generalduty clause, it gives employer
employers flexibility to doexactly what this onerous, you
know, the outcome.
Me as an employer, I do not wantmy employees to undergo a heat
(22:42):
illness.
And we bend over backwards tomake sure that our people have
breaks, you know, get water.
I mean, there's no restrictionson employees getting water on a
job site.
But the general duty clauserequires all employers to
properly take care of youremployees in the situation that
you know that the heat standardis trying to regulate
prescriptively and onerously.
unknown (23:03):
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_00 (23:03):
You hit a great point there, Congressman, is
that the General Duties Clauseis already an enforcement
mechanism for OSHA for badactors in this space.
And for listeners who don'tknow, General Duties Clause
requires all employers tomaintain a health and safety
workplace.
And OSHA is very publicly openabout heat being covered under
(23:24):
that.
And what we hear is smallbusinesses owners are already
taking care of their employees.
They're already putting thingsin place to make sure that these
injuries and illnesses are nothappening.
But really, all this heatstandard is doing is adding new
mandates on small businesses whowho may not have the resources
to actively comply with theirexisting workforce.
They may have to hire, they mayhave to do other things.
(23:46):
And so I think you hit the nailon the head that this really
does not add any enforcementmechanism for OSHA, but really
is just employer mandates orsmall businesses that quite
frankly just don't make anysense.
SPEAKER_01 (23:56):
Right.
Well, I I mean, I made thisexample when we had the hearing
on the heat rule in theEducation Workforce Committee
last summer.
I said, my 50 years of beinginvolved in our family business
with hundreds of employeesworking on construction sites
with thousands of otheremployees, I have never seen one
time an employee on one of thosejob sites have a heat-related
(24:19):
illness.
And I can't, I cannot be theoutlier.
It's just not possible.
Because as a business owner,your employees are your most
valuable resource.
And we're not going to doanything that would put them in
harm's way.
And we work in hundreds offactories and industrial
settings.
And those businesses go out oftheir way to provide cooling
(24:39):
relief if they don't have airconditioned plants.
They go out of their way tocreate work conditions that take
care of their employees.
Because if you don't haveemployees to carry out what your
business does, you're shootingyourself in the foot.
So I have never seen a heatillness on a job.
And I cannot be the outlier.
There's more people in New Yorkand Chicago on a hot summer day
(25:00):
that are elderly people thatlive in an apartment with no air
conditioning that suffer, youknow, heat injuries than I've
ever seen on a constructionsite.
SPEAKER_00 (25:08):
Right.
Solution in search of a problem.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (25:42):
I mean, good luck in Chicago in the wintertime
getting anything done if you'rea construction operator of uh of
any kind.
Yep, so Bill Cassidy, SenatorCassidy is the chair of the
(26:04):
committee that would have thatbill on the Senate side.
He's agreed to be the Senatesponsor of this Congressional
Review Act.
And we've got a lot ofco-sponsors already.
If people want to reach out totheir congressmen and they
haven't co-sponsored this billyet, reach out to their elected
officials and ask them to get onboard with this heat standard
repeal.
We've been told, simplemajority, you know, the Senate
(26:27):
uh chair Bill Cassidy will bethe sponsor in the Senate, and
the president has said we get itthrough the House and the
Senate, he will sign it.
Well, right now it's had thehearing in committee, and so now
(26:47):
we're waiting for it to bescheduled for markup and the
education workforce committee.
I've talked to the chairman TimWahberg several times about
getting it on the calendar.
He's not committed to a dateyet, but but he understands the
importance of it.
Like I said, when we had thehearing you know on it, there
was we had set you know severalindustry groups, you know, come
in and testify in support of thebill.
(27:08):
I think the National Federationof Independent Businesses was
one of the industry groups thatwas there in support of it.
We've had 60 different businessassociations all endorse this
legislation.
So we just need to get itcalendared.
Uh, but the more Republicansponsors we have on the bill,
the more likely the chairmanwill get it on the agenda sooner
rather than later.
(27:29):
The rule hasn't been finalized,so our clock to get it done has
not started ticking yet.
When a rule is finallypromulgated, I think you have 60
session days to carry aCongressional Review Act bill
through the process.
So our our clock has not startedto run, but we definitely want
to get it done sooner ratherthan later.
So as soon as, you know, thesooner we can get more sponsors
(27:52):
and get more of our caucusmembers on board, the sooner we
can get it out of committee andI'm certain it'll pass.
And I would be pretty sure we'vewe had a a couple of uh Democrat
uh co-authors when when we filedthe bill, so hopefully we can
make it a bipartisan effort,which it should be.
(28:19):
Well, no, I appreciate yourtime.
It it's an honor to be hererepresenting small businesses
for my district and across thestate and across the country.
We need more small businessowners in Congress and at the
state level.
And at the state level, why doeswhy does Indiana's process seem
to work so well?
Because the majority of theRepublicans in the House and the
Senate are business owners.
(28:39):
And you get a lot better productwhen you have people who
understand the impact onbusiness at all levels.
And uh it's it's an honor to behere and uh honor to be an NFIB
member serving in DC and lookforward to continuing to work to
protect small businesses everyday.
SPEAKER_02 (28:55):
You're welcome.
SPEAKER_00 (29:01):
Yeah, the Congressman made the call to
action for small businesses toreach out to their members of
Congress on the heat standard.
You can do that through the linkin the show notes.
It would be great if our memberswould reach out to the members
of Congress and let them knowhow burdensome this heat
standard would be on theirbusiness and why Congress should
repeal it.
SPEAKER_04 (29:21):
Thanks for joining us for this week's episode of
the Small Business Rundown.
Your continued support helps usamplify the issues that matter
most.
If you like this episode, pleasehelp small business owners find
the podcast by giving it arating, like, or review.
You can find us at nfib.com andon YouTube, X, LinkedIn,
(29:42):
Instagram, and Facebook.
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