May 3, 2025 • 51 mins
Kathleen Bodenlos had everything society told her she should want – a successful corporate career with good pay and prestige. Yet something was missing. "I thought success would make me fulfilled and it was not fulfilling," she reflects. That realization sparked a dramatic career shift that would eventually lead her to Salt Lake City and the helm of Discovery Gateway Children's Museum.
Ten years ago, Kathleen took a significant pay cut to pursue her childhood passion for museums, beginning at the Carnegie Museum in Pittsburgh where she grew up. Despite skepticism from friends, the move immediately felt right: "I didn't feel like I was working anymore." This authentic alignment with her values carried her through roles at several prestigious institutions before landing in Utah to lead Discovery Gateway during its most challenging period.
When Kathleen arrived, the museum was struggling – closed for months due to COVID and facing an uncertain future. She developed an ambitious renovation plan that was originally meant to take a decade. Through strategic partnerships with corporate sponsors and her energetic leadership style, she's accomplished that transformation in just five years, earning her the 2024 CEO of the Year Award in Utah.
The revitalized museum now features extraordinary new exhibits like a dinosaur display with authentic fossils, a stunning $3.5 million train installation (donated by a couple who reached out via Instagram), and an Associated Foods tractor-trailer that teaches children about food supply chains. Coming soon: an Intermountain Healthcare exhibit focused on emotional wellbeing and what will become the largest children's rooftop garden in the country.
Beyond the exhibits, Kathleen has expanded access through programs like the Museum Inclusion Fund and reduced admission for families on public assistance. Her philosophy centers around creating spaces where both children and adults can experience joy, wonder, and creativity together – reconnecting with that childlike spark that many of us lose in adulthood.
Ready to rediscover your sense of wonder? Visit discoverygateway.org to learn more about upcoming exhibits and plan your visit to this remarkable Salt Lake City treasure.
Head to www.smalllakepod.com/merchandise for Small Lake City Gear!
Join Erik as he supports Fork Cancer, a night of food, drinks, and live music—all for a great cause. Grab your tickets at utah.acscanforkcancer.org and enter Erik Nilsson to help him hit his $12,000 fundraising goal!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
That was the weird part for me.
It's like I thought successwould make me fulfilled and it
was not fulfilling.
So I left a corporate careerabout 10 years ago and I went to
follow my dream of working inthe museum I grew up on, which
was Carnegie Museum ofPittsburgh.
When I told my family that Iwas going to move to Utah and
take over a failing children'smuseum, my son-in-law said of
(00:21):
all the things I thought weregoing to come out of your mouth,
that was absolutely not it.
We're trying to create exhibitsthat are not only fun for the
kids, but it's super fun for theparents to be with the kids.
I will never tire of that.
I could be in my job a millionyears.
You have been there but youhaven't been back.
There's some really cool newstuff to see and touch.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
What is up everybody and welcome back to another
episode of the Small Lake CityPodcast.
I'm your host, eric Nielsen.
Now, if you're born and raisedin Salt Lake, you remember the
Children's Museum that was onBeck Street.
It had so many fun things, fromthe mini basketball court to
the supermarket, and that museumeventually moved to the Gateway
.
Now this week's guest isKathleen Bodenlos, the CEO of
(00:59):
Discovery Children's Museum atGateway.
She also won the 2024 CEO of theYear Award in Utah for the
transformation of the Children'sMuseum, going from a nearly
defunct museum coming out ofCOVID to now expediting her
plans from 10 years down to five, bringing in a lot of corporate
sponsors and bringing in a lotof new exhibitions to our youth.
(01:20):
We talk a lot about her pathinto getting into it, from going
from corporate America and notfeeling fulfilled to jumping
into one of her childhoodpassions, which was going to
museums, learning and exploring.
There's something for everyonein this one, whether you have
kids and go to the museum now,or you're trying to find a
little bit more creativity and alittle bit more of that
childlike spark in your life.
So, yeah, check it out and I'llsee you on the other side, I
(01:45):
love.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I love the name of your podcast because it's just
like Pittsburgh.
That's where I grew up and it'sabout the same size.
You know population and we usedto always say it's like your
one degree from knowingeverybody and I've only lived
here five years and it feelslike that.
I mean I'm constantly runningpeople that I do know somehow.
Yeah, like, and I've only livedhere five years.
It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Because it's a saying in Salt Lake that's been.
I mean, I don't even rememberthe first time I heard it, but
go out somewhere.
Oh my gosh, I haven't seen yousince high school.
Yep, small Lake City, yeah.
But then there's this wholeanother level when because even
when I was thinking about thepodcast and like brainstorming
on what I wanted to do and how Iwanted to do it, there was like
I was like what am I going tocall this thing if I did?
And it was humming and hawingover a couple of things and I
(02:26):
can't remember.
But like at another one ofthose moments and someone was
like yep, small Lake city.
I was like that's it, found it.
I think it's perfect and it'salso fun when, um, cause,
there's it's one thing to livein Salt Lake and experience
small Lake city podcast calledthat and chase that energy, it's
(02:47):
a whole nother level I canimagine, like there was there
was one time I was on a datewith someone and they're like oh
, like they're saying somethingto the extent of like blah, blah
, blah, like I have therapylater, and she's like I love my
therapist name so-and-so.
And I was like is so-and-so'slast name this?
And she's like yeah, I'm likecool, I used to work with your
therapist at red robin when Iwas in college, so there's that
there's so much crossover, it'sinsane.
(03:08):
Yeah, so I mean and they justkeep out like I'm now to the
point where I just kind of likeyep, like of course you knew my
cousin from some sort of soccerteam, and this is how we do this
, and you married someone, Iwork, like those sort of things,
like it yeah, exactly ithappens so and it's.
It's fun to hear like I mean,I've heard that about pittsburgh
, I've heard that somewhat aboutlike parts of like portland and
(03:29):
so they're like these kind oflike smaller cities where you're
born and raised there.
It's just kind of it's kind ofjust the social circle and you
bump into people all the timeyeah, I mean, I wasn't born and
raised here.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
it's weirder still, right, like how did I make all
these connections so fast, like,and it's just, it's just, it's
a friendly place, it is.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah and uh.
I mean one of the like, thenotes that people have about it
is like oh, like everyone's nicehere, but then it's like they
have these other motives behindit, Like your neighbors will be
nice, but they're like but wewant you to come to church.
I'm like I would rather the eyelike across the street and just
(04:05):
like looks runs the other way.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
So I was only.
I bought a house in Rose Parkand I was only in my house for
about a week and I had met everyneighbor on my street.
They just came over and justintroduced themselves.
They were so nice and like I'velooked a lot of places and you
don't always find that and therewas.
There was actually nomotivation.
I think they were just curiouswho moved in which?
Is great All right, let's goknock on our door and find out,
right.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Which is great, because I mean that's sweet.
That's really sweet.
It's like one of thecornerstones of a community in
general.
I mean you have to show up, youhave to talk to people, you
have to have like social.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Yeah, you have to be curious, right?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah, yeah like people always like one thing
I've probably mentioned thislike five times on the podcast
now, but I'm gonna do it againis like one thing I've been
trying to live.
More is just like get out ofthe house like nothing good
happens in the walls of yourhouse and I know there's like if
you're raising a family, if youhave kids, like very different,
but like no one's gonna comeand knock on your door, be like
hey, do you want to be part ofmy community?
(05:00):
Hey, do you want this job?
do you want to meet this person.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
So you would support my empty refrigerator.
My friends give me such a hardtime about the emptiness of my
refrigerator, but I'm always out.
So they're like you have butterand water.
Do you really live here?
That's what I always hear whenpeople look inside.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I would go head to head with our empty fridges
right now.
Cause I've been like the last,like this week I was mentioning
was in Florida.
Last week I was in Chicago andthe week before that I was in
Phoenix, and so I came home tomy sister was over and I was
looking at my fridge.
I'm like I have nothing to eat.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
She's like well, duh, you've been like what do you
expect your fridge is going tobe populated?
Yeah, you don't want to buy abunch of groceries and leave.
It doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
So I agree, like an empty fridge.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
It's a good sign.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah, go spend time with people, go out, be in the
world.
And even on the theme of SmallLake City, there was a couple
weeks in a row where someonereached out to me like, hey, I
have this event, I have thisextra ticket, I have something.
Do you want to come?
And the way, a lot of my Idon't even know if it's social
anxiety as much as just mygeneral preferences, but I like
to have a plan.
And any deviation from plan I'mlike maybe next time.
(06:05):
And so someone calls me like,hey, what are you doing in an
hour?
Let's go to this dinner.
I'm like, fine, I'll do it.
But then I'd show up to theseinvitations and there'd be
someone who I've been eithertrying to meet or someone I've
been wanting to talk to be likewhat do you know so.
I'm trying to reprogram my brain, and that's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
It's wonderful to try to do that.
I have a really good friendhere who she says I'm good for
because I'm a little bit morespontaneous than her, and she
will do that too.
She'll book me like three weeksout and it's totally normal for
her.
It's adorable.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
She's like I want to know what I'm doing three weeks
from now, which I mean that'spart of adulting, as much as I
hate that term.
In like I have one friend whohe loves to think we're all
still in high school and can belike hey, what are you guys up
to tonight?
Do you want to hang out?
Like I can ride, like almostlike can I ride my bike over?
We can play video games, I know, right, I'm like listen, I've
had this night booked for likelike two weeks, like let's let's
plan ahead.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
As much as I hate to be that person, you just it is
what it is.
It is what it is.
I know you get enough plannerfriends.
It forces you, you intoplanning, because then you know
they learn that they can't justcall you that night.
That's what you're trainingthem, little by little.
Little by little, we'll be likeon our deathbeds.
I'd like to schedule your.
I want to see you one last time.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
So your euthanasia is ?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
on the third.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I'd be like now you finally get the schedule.
That's hilarious, kathleen.
I'm excited to talk today.
Kathleen Bodenlos Yep, I got itright, okay.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
You nailed it.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
I'll take it.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
And that's not easy to do.
I've seen harder, but I'vedefinitely seen easier.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Okay, but from Discovery's Children's Museum.
Everybody's probably walked byit at the Gateway.
If you have kids, you'veprobably been on a chaperone on
a field trip there or takingthem to be busy.
But uh, it's.
It's something that's beenaround for so long and I didn't
realize until I was starting topoke around and do some research
.
So I was like wait, like it'slike 50 years.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Yeah, crazy.
We used to be on beck street.
A lot of people who are olderremember that.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
So yeah, yes, and that's what I was going to ask
you about is because so I livepretty close to you.
I'm in marmalade okay yeah,we're practically neighbors.
I mean, I live like literally ablock away from warm springs
park.
Take my dogs there every dayright, but, as I've noticed is
there's that building startingto come to life and there's some
construction going on in thereso I was curious if you had any
information.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I actually don't, that's not us, so yeah, very
interesting it's a cool building.
I mean, I've never been, butit's very cool looking.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
I've spent a lot of time inside that.
Oh, have you really mychildhood I remember there they
used to have this.
It was like this supermarketsection and you felt like you
were in a real supermarket andyou'd go check stuff out.
And there was this dark starroom.
That was super cool.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
We still have a supermarket, by the way.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
No way.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
All right, I can't believe you're old enough to
remember Beck Street.
Yeah, yeah, you're wearing yourage as well there.
Buddy, my memory is a blessingand a curse.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah, I can remember some of the minutia of my
childhood.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
But yeah, I remember that museum very well.
That is very cool and justbecause, again, like there's so
many times from my childhoodthat I'd like I mean it's always
like positive memories, unlessthey're like really negative,
but I mean it's those fun oneswhere I remember going there and
just like having fun andrunning around with my siblings
or friends or whatever it was,so I'm glad to know that the
supermarket is still alive andwell.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
It is still alive and well.
In fact, we're building andwe're opening a new exhibit this
weekend and we've expanded onthe grocery store.
So it's sponsored by Macy's, ohno way yeah, and we're going to
open a new Associated Foodstractor trailer exhibit right
next to it.
So basically, the idea is totry to teach kids where, like,
all the groceries come from inthe store, because it's teaching
that you know kind of cause andeffect, that you know
(09:38):
encouraging that curiousthinking yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, I love that.
That's a good way to do it.
I mean especially working withI mean, running a museum isn't
free nor cheap and seeing peoplethat want to partner and really
make it a great experience forkids and I mean again like cause
it's one thing to be like ohyeah, supermarket, Cool you go
with your mom you grab stuff youcheck out, you go home.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
But it's also great.
One of the things that reallyhappens in a children's museum
is all the socialization, andkids need that still so much
after everything we went throughwith COVID, especially young
children you know, it's real.
I have many parents tell methat that's what they love about
it.
Their kids show up there withtheir family, but then they make
new friends in that day and itjust builds their social
confidence.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
So it's good, yeah, I mean especially when you're
like if I'm a kid who, let's say, went through COVID and that
was traumatizing for a lot ofreasons and then come back to
school as social worlds, butlike even I don't know like the
more that we can train peoplefrom an earlier age, that
there's more ways to makefriends outside of the structure
that we've created as a society, that where that should happen,
(10:41):
and what I mean by that is Imean up until the age of 20,
let's call it 23 you're relianton your education as what your
social circles are, from themost early ones outside of your
child, outside of your home,till all right, like you have a
degree, you're, you're an adult.
Go do something and if youdon't go to school.
Let's call it 18.
And then that's one thing Ihear about so much from people
is they'll get out of school,like I mean, I mean everybody
(11:03):
from late twenties, thirties,forties and on.
They're like I don't know howto meet people.
I don't know where to go tomeet people.
And so the more that we caninstill this um, I don't want to
say pressure, but like showthem that hey, look, like, oh,
you can run into someone in hereand like talk to someone and
say hey, like let's have a playdate and go hang out, and so the
can have these naturalinteractions in society, no
(11:23):
matter your age, whether you'reholding on to your mom's hand
and crossing the road, or if youwant to go meet someone and
grab a drink, like that's, it'sskills that we all need.
I totally agree with you, like Iwant to hear more about your
back Cause like you've been alot of different places.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I have, I mean from Pittsburgh, but walk me through
this like uh, my trajectory,yeah, Well, so I I left a
corporate career about 10 yearsago and I went to follow my
dream of working in the museum Igrew up on, which was Carnegie
museum of Pittsburgh, and, um,it was like a big pay cut.
I had to, um, basicallypleasantly persist with the HR
(12:00):
department to get an interview,because sometimes with museums
it's hard to have an entry pointif you have a totally different
background.
But I was convinced I hadtransferable skills and of
course, it was a learning curveto work in a museum.
It's just very different than acorporate environment, but I
fell in love with it.
Getting to see the hiddencollections was really the
amazing part of it.
The stuff you never see, youknow, because it's not out on
(12:21):
the floor and it's massive.
And then from there, I took apromotion.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I want to stop there for a second Talk to me about
this calling Cause.
There's so many people thatagain like if there's, if
there's this, this not knowinghow to meet people is the first
one.
The second conversation I havethe most with people is I've
been doing what everybody toldme to do.
I've been following thesecareer steps.
I've reached this point.
I don't know how I got here.
I don't really like it.
I don't know what to do.
So we'd love to hear a littlemore of like that decision to be
like all right, corporateAmerica, like there's actually
something I want to do and alittle insight into that
(13:09):
no-transcript and it waslucrative and I worked really
hard and I think that was theweird part for me.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
It's like I thought I thought success would make me
fulfilled and it was notfulfilling at all.
It was so weird I actuallyliked what I did too, which also
added a layer of weird that Iwasn't content and I love
history, I love art and I lovearchitecture and, like I said, I
grew up on that museum and Ithought it would be cool to work
behind the scenes and try towork with the scientists and
(13:38):
everything and promote them.
So the job sounded really coolto me and sounded challenging
and I had to take a big pay cut.
A lot of my friends were likehave you gone mad?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
You've worked your tail off, so I was like probably
, but yeah, it was weird.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
As soon as I started, even though there were so many
challenges to learn, theenvironment and the work, I just
loved it.
I didn't feel like I wasworking anymore and I thought,
wow, this is like it's right forme.
So I just kind of fell into it.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I guess you could say yeah, no, I love that Because
it takes action right, becausethere's so many people that I
mean have felt similar.
They're like well, I'msuccessful by a lot of
definitions people would give me.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I'm doing well, but something doesn't feel right.
And so it's like hard to makesense of all of these
conflicting emotions, but theonly thing that really does pull
you out of these conflictingemotions is action.
And so for you to be like Ithink this is what I want to do,
which is I like that you wentback to be like well, I like
this.
I've known that I've grown tolove art, history, architecture,
(14:45):
kind of the finer things oflife, and I feel like it stemmed
from this, because anytime Italk to someone where they feel
like let's call it lost, likewell, when was the last time you
felt joy?
When was the last time you feltthis?
And sometimes for people it'slike I was, I was a kid, and the
more that we can be in achildlike state of play, the
happier that we will be, themore joy we'll bring in our
process, which starts a wholepinwheel of things you just gave
me goosebumps.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Well said, that's kind of what we live by at the
Children's Museum.
Right, and more of us shouldyeah.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
It's kind of the whole concept, honestly, what
you just said.
Yeah, there's a book I read andit's written as like kind of
like a parable, and it's calledoh my gosh, I.
And it's called oh my gosh,I'll think of it later.
But the basis is this guy he'strying to be successful, he's in
sales and one of his mentors islike, oh, you've got to meet
with this guy.
(15:34):
He's helped so many of myfriends go do it.
And he's like, okay, he's goingto give me typical sales
knowledge, go on.
But it's almost like a Christmascarol takes him to all these
different people and there's allthese like lessons they learn
and one of them he goes to he'slike, oh, you have to go meet my
friend so and so in marketing.
She's, I mean, super successful, company's great, like all the
buzzwords.
But they walk into one of themeetings and it's just like a
(15:55):
bunch of easels and crayons andjust like all this stuff.
He's like, oh, is this like thedaycare?
He's like, no, no, no, no, comeon in.
And so that's one thing Ipersonally believe in is the
more that you can lean into thatchildlike state and forget
about the responsibilities,forget about what's on your
plate and your deliverables andyour deadlines and it's end of
quarter and really just start toenjoy it.
(16:16):
Like that was one thing that Ifound.
I mean two things.
Like one, I started paintingabout two and a half years ago.
Cool, and because, like so muchof my brain, especially
professionally, is so pragmatic,it's so numeric, it's so
structured, it's so processdriven that I needed something
to just pull me out of that.
It really does too, doesn't itand it was one of those things I
never really cause.
I took art classes or I woulddraw, be like, yeah, I suck at
(16:37):
this, whatever, moving on, let'sgo play soccer.
But I would.
It was the first.
I'm like no, no, no, we'retrying at this.
And it was weird to be likethere was one time I was
painting this apple.
It was like the first fewmonths and I was like kept
looking like this is so stupid,I hate this, I suck at this.
Someone comes behind me likewow, that's really good.
And in my head I'm like shut up.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I'm like I know you want is pretty good.
Isn't that weird?
I always do that when I painttoo.
I'm self-taught, and what I'lldo is I'll take a picture
because I'm a person.
I want to destroy things.
If I don't like the painting, Iwant to get rid of it because
I'm like oh, that was a mistake.
And I do the same thing now.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I take a picture and I give myself a day think I like
doing this, I think I likedoing that and to your point of
it felt didn't feel like workanymore.
I feel like you were beingyourself and I remember the
first time I recorded which wasin was like again goosebumps,
like all right, I don't know ifthis is the end, but this is
part of the journey and we'rejust going to keep pulling at
this.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
That's awesome.
I love that you found it.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
We're still.
It's a journey, not adestination, and I try to keep
like.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
But you found something in it and that's,
that's the you can.
You can feel that when ithappens right Exactly and like
that.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
That feeling is a very unique one that I want
everybody to find, but know thatnot everyone will.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah Well, and you know you said something earlier
that made me think of something.
So when you say children'smuseum, I think people imagine
like they just drop their kidoff, like it's daycare, and what
really happens is when theparents have to stay with the
kids in the children's museum.
Right, we have a greatoperations team, but they can't
watch all these.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
It's not a daycare.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeah, we just have too many moving parts right, too
many kids and too many exhibits.
But what's really cool is thatwe're trying now, with our new
train exhibit and our dinosaurexhibit and another exhibit that
Intermountain Healthcare isbringing on, we're trying to
create exhibits that are notonly fun for the kids but it's
super fun for the parents to bewith the kids and that's when
(18:42):
you really see that joy and thatdiscovery, because the parents
are learning right alongside.
The kids are just having ablast either way.
So it's um, it really made methink of that when you said that
earlier about getting out ofour own heads.
I think that's something thatchildren's museum can do for
families is it can bring a lotof joy and fun and, just, you
know, time together.
That's sort of different thanother things that you might do
and kind of spark a different adifferent experience with your
(19:05):
family.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
So yeah, I mean, life is all about shared experiences
and especially it's hard whenI'm an adult.
I have a kid like yeah, I don'treally know what, I'm not going
to go on the playground withyou or I might get stuck, but
there, are these experienceswhere you can meet in the middle
and you can both find yourselfhaving that joy in the process.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah, it's, it seems to be working.
And you know, I think I thinkwhen parents are having as much
fun as the kids, it makes thekids see their parents a little
bit different too.
You know a more playful side,and it's funny because I'm such
a geek Like I go to museumsbecause I want to geek out.
But the number one reason thatmost normal people go to museums
is they want to spend time withfriends and family.
Exactly what you just said Lovethat, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Anyway, coming back to it, so sure, so you decide to
go work at the museum, you, youfeel this, this calling towards
it more alignment.
But then I mean, let's pick upfrom there.
I mean, what did the journey gofrom that point?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
So it was wonderful.
I absolutely loved Carnegie.
My role there was in marketingand what I was trying to do was
get the scientists who weregoing on expeditions.
They were super cool but theyweren't getting much media
attention and I think it wasbecause they're brilliant and
they speak about their work insuch depth, right, and they have
such a deep understanding.
And you know, I think we're allguilty of this when you really
understand something, well,sometimes you pick up in the
(20:17):
middle because you're like, well, the beginning is obvious.
But you know, to a lay personlike me, I didn't understand the
beginning and I needed tounderstand it, and so we found
some innovative ways to get themin front of a lot of people,
and one was we did a live stream.
It was just me and my iPhoneand a tripod and I would go in
their hidden collections and Iwould just have them talk about
their collections, and it reallytook off.
(20:38):
I mean, npr covered it, othermuseums adopted it and we even
had bartenders from Irelandtuning in and like posting
questions.
You know, it was like appealingto a wide range of people.
It was really, really fun.
So we did some innovation andthey were great sports and they
got them on the map, you know,because people are like holy cow
.
That's really interesting andthen, weirdly, that
simultaneously helped them intheir their scientific endeavors
(21:00):
, because a lot of times it'sjust you know people just aren't
aware of what they'recollecting, that kind of thing,
especially when you have amuseum like that.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Like I mean, there was a podcast.
One of my favorite podcasts isrevisionist history with Malcolm
Gladwell.
He did an episode on the Louvreand talks about how many pieces
that they have and what you seein the museum.
No matter how many times theyrotate things out, some things
are never going to see the lightof day.
Some things are going to bethere forever but you don't know
until you like again, likestart highlighting it and give
away for people to understandthat and give way to time, chime
(21:30):
in.
So if I'm a bartender, I'm likewell, I don't know, I got
nothing else.
I can watch this while I work.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Exactly, yeah, so.
So I had some cool, coolexperiences there.
I absolutely loved it.
And then I decided to take avice president role at
Cincinnati Museum Center and theNational Underground Railroad
Freedom Center.
It's all under the sameumbrella and that was super
interesting.
Cincinnati Museum Center is inan old Art Deco train station.
(21:57):
It's like the Justice Center,you know.
If you can picture that, that'swhat it looks like with that,
you know, half dome.
It's really beautiful and itwas beautifully renovated.
Right before I got there and mywork there was a little bit more
diverse.
I was doing operations,fundraising, a bunch of
different stuff.
It was super fun.
We brought in some reallythought provoking exhibits at
the National UndergroundRailroad Freedom Center.
One was looking at the humantrafficking that goes up and
(22:17):
down 75 corridor.
It was really amazing.
It was made by a student andshe basically would take.
It was very edgy and you wouldbe led through as if you were
being trafficked, wow.
So it was very, very powerfuland it brought up some really
interesting discussions in thatcommunity and I was really happy
as a clam there.
I love my team, I lovedeverything about it.
But then a ton of us gotfurloughed because of COVID,
(22:39):
yeah, and I hung in there for alittle bit, planning to go back,
but I'm not a girl who can'tsit home for three months.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
You know I was like it's only so much sourdough you
can make.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
That's the truth of it.
Man, I painted a couple of hugepaintings.
I'm like I need a job, I need aJLB.
So, um, I put on some feelersand I found this position and at
that time, the children'smuseum was really struggling, um
, largely due to COVID, I meanhigh touch museum.
You can only imagine, um and soit was actually, um shuttered
for three months and then whenwe came back, you know there was
(23:09):
timed entry.
You can only let so many peoplein at once.
We had to clean all everythingall the time, um, and we still
clean a lot, but you know, Imean it was to a different,
different, different time, um,so it took us a little bit to
come back.
But we have, I mean we didwithin a couple of years and, um
, a lot of it was just findingum new corporate sponsors that
(23:32):
would fund, you know, a lot ofthese new exhibits and our.
My 10 year plan on my mind whenI took the job is like I would
love to have the whole museumrenovated in 10 years and we
have such an amazing team we'rewe're actually going to
accomplish that in five years.
I can't believe it.
I'm saying that, but it's thetruth.
So, yeah, it shows you how muchpeople love the children's
museum here yeah again, becausethey all remember the back.
They do, they do remember ityeah, it's, it's, it's, it's an
(23:53):
easy end because people are likeI love that place.
That's the person people say tome.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
They think about it for a minute and they go oh, I
love that place it's a goodresponse, yeah it's not like a
door shut yeah there's a coupleplaces you could probably work
at and try to fundraise, likenot even maybe Right, but I mean
talk to me about what, likementally, because again, like
from Pittsburgh then you go toOhio, I mean we're like I guess
we'll try out Salt Lake.
(24:16):
Did you have any touchpadsbefore that?
What was your thoughts on thegeography in general before you
got here?
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Yeah, when I told my familythat I was going to move to Utah
and take over a failingchildren's museum, my son-in-law
said of all the things Ithought were going to come out
of your mouth, that wasabsolutely not it.
So, yeah, but I knew I wouldlove hiking out here and
originally I had thought I wouldjust come out for about four or
five years and then head back,because most of my families were
(24:45):
all spread out all over theEast Coast but they're all back
there.
But I came out here and Ithought you know, I'm gonna have
to take up knitting and becomea cat lady, because who am I
going to meet in the middle ofCOVID, you know?
And this place is amazing.
Like I made friends right out ofthe gate and I've made friends
everywhere I've ever lived, butsometimes it takes a while.
This place I'll tell you what Ihad friends, sorry, I had
friends right away andeverybody's so generous.
(25:08):
They introduced me to theirfriends and I just kept them and
made new friends.
So after I had all that happen,I'm like I don't want to leave
this place.
I love it, it's gorgeous and Ilove the people here and I just
felt so happy.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
So I bought a house.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
It's hard to hate it.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
No, I love that, yeah , so you get here it.
No, I love that, yeah, so soyou get here.
You're like all right, we'regoing to renovate this, we're
going to bring this back to life.
Um, I mean, talk to me abouthow I mean something.
I mean, whether it be thesecorporate sponsors that made it
happen or the team that made ithappen, cause that's a I mean,
that's a big task to do so much.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
It's huge and you know, at first I mean it.
You know a lot of that wasfundraising and kind of flipping
the model where we fundraise,we get the money and then we
build, so we're we'refinancially stable, and then
(25:58):
we're in this unique positionnow where our supporters have
given us the funds and they'reon our roster for our build, so
that's like the perfect place tobe when you're in a museum.
So I would say the board andthe fundraising was like I don't
call it easy because everythingtakes time and it's hard work,
right, but relatively easy whenyou think about the brand equity
(26:21):
, I guess is what I'm trying tosay.
People know what we are andthey have a memory of it.
So it's not as hard asfundraising for something that
you have to first educate themwhat it even is, and then you
know so.
So I felt like that, um, youknow, the the, um, the love of
the place was also reallyhelpful in us building it.
And then I have an amazing team.
I mean, I have a.
I have a diverse and, um,really young team and you know
(26:46):
there's so much great work,ethic and, you know, so many
great ideas, like you know, justa lot of innovation.
I try to run it, you know, tryto manage, like I like to be
managed, where I have some roomto, you know, make mistakes and
learn from them and also come upwith some wild ideas that end
up working right.
So, you know, and I feel likethe team has really responded
(27:08):
beautifully to that and they andthey're just worked so well
together.
It's like a very good vibe, youknow so.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
I mean especially when, like, it's one thing to be
in corporate office everybodyhas their job, do your thing,
whatever, and a lot of financialmotivation.
But when you get to a placewhere it's like, hey, like we
all agree, we're not like thisisn't.
We're not here for the money,right, we're here because we do
want to make this an impactfulplace, and that's when I mean a
lot of the greatest ideas cometogether and the people actually
(27:34):
give.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
I think you're so right about that and I think
that you know I I'm stillidealistic and I still think the
glass is half full, you know.
But but a lot of the earliercareer people on my team,
they're they're right there withme, they're very idealistic and
they believe in our mission andthat's something I really hire
for.
I asked them two things.
I'm like what do you do if youdon't know something?
(27:55):
If they tell me they research alittle bit or they ask some
people questions, I'm like great, you know, that's somebody
who's like going to try tofigure things out a little bit,
cause, obviously, nonprofits, wedon't have a bunch of people
just sitting around doingresearch.
We, you know, we, we got to bea little scrappy, um.
And then the other thing Iasked him is what do you, what
do you think about our missionand do you, do you care about it
?
And if they tell me they reallycare, they're excited or they
(28:18):
love museums or they want tojust be part of something that
helps kids, I know that we'vegot a winner, you know.
So that's how we hire.
We look for people that, likeyou said, you know, really are
engaged with us and what we'retrying to do.
So what is the mission?
So, you know, honestly, we justwant it to be a fun place for
kids to learn and for all kids.
You know, and I'm really proudof our philanthropy team because
(28:39):
they really worked well ontrying to grow our museum
inclusion fund, which helps kidswho might not have a chance to
come to the museum get to come,and we partner with other
nonprofits and we fundraise forthe tickets our own tickets and
then we give them to the othernonprofits.
And we also have a greatprogram called access for all,
which, um is a really reduced um, um, um, admission price for
(29:02):
anybody who is like on any kindof public assistance and it's
it's just really well utilizedand, um, you know, it's great
because for me as a kid, um, myparents didn't have money for us
to travel and and do a lot andbut we did get to go to the
museum a lot and I feel like forme, that's where it really
opened my mind to what's outthere.
You know, traveling to go seethis stuff someday, that was my
(29:24):
dream.
Or just understanding like, wow, somebody painted that.
You know, just standing infront of a big artwork like a
human being made that look like.
Whatever you know, whateverthis is, you know the scene.
So I just thought, wow, would itbe cool if we can expand that
program and get as many kids inas we possibly can, who maybe
you know wouldn't come otherwise.
And um, and I was so happy wewere able to get some funding it
(29:49):
was about two years ago fromFirst Utah Bank and they funded
our summer camp scholarshipprogram and I mean it's
impactful, right.
Kids are socializing andlearning and playing in the
museum and what a great way tospend your summer.
So it's just a win-win.
It feels good to even talkabout it and I'm very proud of
our team for working so hard tomake you know all that happen
(30:28):
pretty well-known local artists,um, both like religious and
fantasy and like sci-fi.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
But he was talking about how, when he grew up,
there's this age that kids justkind of stopped drawing, stopped
coloring, stopped thinking.
But he never did, he just kindof kept going with it.
And I think that we as asociety definitely an american
society have said oh no, no,don't do this.
Like, you need to go go playsports, you can get a
scholarship.
Go get good grades, so you canget a scholarship.
Go do all of these things.
Because there's like like aquote roi attached to it, when,
(30:51):
in reality, the people that I'veseen who've leaned into their
creativity and have really builtthose muscles, are the ones
that have come, been the mostsuccessful and been the most fun
during it.
Because, again, like,creativity is such an
interesting word and a lot ofpeople like, if I ask someone,
are you creative?
Creative, like, oh, I couldnever paint, I can never draw,
I'm like no, no, no, no, no,that's artistry, right, let's
come back to this.
So creativity is just is amindset and a way to approach
(31:13):
something, cause I mean, likeyou were talking with, uh, in
your interview process, beinglike, well, if you D8, id8, id8,
that's the word about how toeven get from point A to point B
.
Right, you're right.
But also to even be like, eh, wecould do it this way, we could
do it that way, we could comeover under through back, loop
back around, and so, the morethat we can open up people's
(31:36):
brains to really go from tell mewhat to do and how to do it to
how about this?
That's where so much value iscreated, so much value is
created.
And so, again, another one ofthose things we can just help
kids be more kids and help uscreate a way for everybody to
have that opportunity.
What else could you ask for?
Speaker 1 (31:55):
No, you're absolutely right, and that's the other
component of children's museumsthat we really strive for and I
think we nail it.
But we really try to give thatmoment of wonder, like where
there's just like that wowmoment for kids.
And I'll tell you what I willnever tire of that I could be in
my job a million years and whenI walk through those galleries
and I hear kids just freakingout, they're like, oh, wow, you
(32:15):
could press this button and thenthis thing happens, like
they're just, they're over themoon.
And this one, when we first putthe dinosaur exhibit in, this
kid must have come on a fieldtrip with his class and he was
like explaining what was goingto happen to his grandmother and
his mom and they were going upthe piano stairs, going into the
museum and they the mom and thegrandmother were just surprised
they were making the music andthis kid was like, don't worry
(32:37):
about that, where do you seethese dinosaurs?
They got her utah raptor.
You could touch the bones.
Like it was just adorable.
I was like I wish I had my, Iwish, I wish I had phone ready
and I could have captured allthat.
It was like gorgeous.
So you like, just like you said, just igniting that curiosity.
And I think if you experiencethat when you're young, whatever
it is, whatever's getting youall excited, you know if you
(32:58):
keep, if you keep a touch pointthere, you'll stay.
You know as equally engaged asan adult and want to keep
learning, and to me that'sreally where you know.
I feel like the brain justturns on when you keep that.
You know, keep that gray matter, just high, energized and
you're super curious.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Oh, yeah, there's a quote I've stuck with a lot
recently where I mean theopposite of depression isn't
happiness, the opposite ofdepression is expression, and so
the more that we can expressourselves, especially in any
creative ways, artistic ways,whatever it can be then the less
, in theory, depressed thatyou'll be.
It's fair and so I mean even inmy life and I'm curious if you
have the same feeling.
But like, if I'm ever likeoverstressed or I feel like I'm
(33:36):
in my head or I can't get out,I'm like when's the last time I
painted?
And it'll be like it was threeweeks ago.
I'll be like cool, we'repainting because we just need to
sit in front of something andjust completely go, just on the
other side of things.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Now, you're so right about that and you know what's
interesting too.
I read a study on paintingbecause I don't consider myself
very good, and you know I don'thave.
I don't think I'm a naturaltalent, I think it's just good
for me and no matter what youroutcome according to the study
no matter, I mean, even ifyou're just painting, you know
straight lines across a canvasit's doing stuff to your brain.
(34:09):
That's really healthy.
And I was like, wow, no wonderI enjoyed, even though a lot of
times my panties are horrible.
That's totally fine, you know,and I don't believe you that
they're horrible but becausethat's what I say to myself.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
But also like there's also this weird culture of like
you can't have a hobby you'rebad at like everything
everything you have to do youhave to be good at it.
It has to be something you canshow people like no, go out
there and suck, like it's not,like I picked up.
Like the first paint class Iever took is like all right,
we're just going to draw lines.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
All right, draw a squiggle line and I'm like even
then I'm like sweating, like Idon't know, it's so much
pressure to think I'm gonna goout and try something new and
I'm just gonna crush it.
You're right, but for somereason we put that pressure on
ourselves.
Exactly.
That's so true.
That's.
That's really insightful.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
We do do that and especially to give yourself like
this little microcosm where youcan fail and be like oh cool,
like this mark sucks, cool,let's, let's fix this and be
like oh, I can't make mistakesand it's easy to fix.
So then when, like life momentcomes up, you're like, yeah,
let's fail, let's try something.
Because that's one thing I loveabout painting is it's I mean,
it's constant conflictresolution, yes, and it requires
(35:14):
action, like.
One thing I've thought a lotabout recently is how
decisiveness is a superpower,because we're all so in our
heads we overthink everything.
We have so much data.
I mean I can talk myself in orout of anything if I give myself
enough time.
I agree With painting.
It's like I can't just sit hereand think about it.
I have to make marks, I have tocolor this canvas Right, and so
(35:35):
the more you're like, oh cool,like I can be decisive and know
what I'm doing and realizesometimes it's not always going
to work, but at least I'm doingsomething You're so earlier
about travel, and when I was inBarcelona, I went to the Picasso
museum.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
That is one of the coolest museums I've ever been
in in my life and I'm a big.
I have a big problem I go toall museums.
So, when I say that I reallymean it.
But what I loved about it and Ithink you really appreciate
this as a painter they in a, ina.
I don't know if you've everbeen there, but there's in all
(36:09):
the galleries.
There's especially for his morerecent works.
There's a bunch of paintingsand it's all of his attempts to
figure out what he was trying tofigure out.
And he would work on hugecanvases and just have like a
stick figure of a child, like ahead, a nose, you know, and that
was his work for that day andit gave me so much confidence.
I'm like, holy cow, this isPicasso, you.
And it gave me so muchconfidence.
I'm like, holy cow, this isPicasso, you know.
(36:30):
I mean that maybe wouldn't be.
You know, if I did that, Iwould be like, well, I had a
rough day, you know, I only madea stick figure, but like he was
so brilliant he knew that heneeded to figure that out before
he could do the next thing.
And the other cool thing aboutit there are many beautiful
paintings where he he almostrealized his, his masterpiece,
and that in whatever thatpainting was going to be.
But there would be a couple ofpaintings that came really close
and even though, you know, Idon't think anybody has to be a
(36:54):
an art expert, you could justknow which one was the one that
was the finished product, eventhough other ones were so close.
So there's there.
There is a deep understandingin us about art, and I do think
it resonates back to ourchildhood and so, tapping into
that, no wonder it's so joyful,right, it's like your time to
color, it's your time to play.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
When you look back at the human existence, at some
point all these black screensthat we stare at disappear, all
of these things that we'vecreated disappear and it just
comes down to, I mean, thehieroglyphics we see on walls
and all of the like, the again,like the artifacts that you see
in a museum like this is whatthey did.
They built to try to explainthemselves, to understand their
world, to understand, like, tobring their community together.
Yeah, and so the again the morethat we can create, the the
more we're more groundedourselves, because we weren't,
(37:39):
we didn't come from the oceansas reptiles to evolve into what
we are.
To just put out a marketingreport at the end of the month
to show how everything went,which not saying it's all bad
but we need to lean into thatmore.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
I agree, and human beings are fascinating, but
they're also very complex, right?
So it's like a way of unpackingyourself a little bit when you
get creative, because even ifyou don't fully understand
everything, you at least maybeunderstand one aspect that you
didn't before.
Yeah, that can be huge, totally.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Heaven forbid.
We make our lives a little bitbetter by learning more about
ourselves and how we like toenjoy it better, crazy, but I
want to hear about the museumand the plans that we have.
So it sounds like you've broughton a lot of great corporate
sponsors that have helped notonly just increase the inclusive
.
Inclusive, I almost saidexclusivity.
We've got to make this thing asexclusive as possible.
Incre said exclusivity.
We've got to make this thing asexclusive as possible.
Increase the inclusivity, bringin more people.
(38:29):
But tell me about, like theseupcoming exhibits, things that
you've been working on and someof these sponsors.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Yeah, so it's been very exciting.
I like the, I like theuniqueness of the exhibits we're
bringing in.
So the dinosaur exhibit washuge because we were able to
bring in hands-on learning forkids.
You know, actually holding likeauthentic.
The Utah Raptor that we have wascreated by Robert Gaston, who's
one of the paleontologists thatfounded it, and we were talking
(38:55):
about Smiley City earlier,actually randomly bumped into
somebody who used to work in amuseum.
That actually knew him also andit's like again, you know, it's
just complete, completelyinteresting.
But long story short, so we hada first round where, when we
first built it, we had a mannamed Joe DeBalco who is pretty
big in a paleontology societyand he had been collecting since
(39:17):
he was five years old andthat's how I found him and my
dream was to have real fossilsintegrated into this exhibit and
I didn't know if that waspossible.
A lot of children's museumscan't make that happen and his
dream was to one day put hisfossils in a museum.
So when we met it was like, ohmy gosh, this is meant to happen
.
And I got to know his wholefamily and they're totally
(39:39):
lovely.
And then, sadly, about a yearand a half ago, joe passed away
and it was really hard becausehe had given this beautiful
collection.
He was like our best, mostprominent, beloved volunteer
because he would work with thekids and you know he would ask,
he would sit in the in theexhibit on Saturdays and just
show the kids fossils and talkto them about it and he just
(40:02):
really loved his.
You know what he did and andbringing that to children and
making it, making them curiousand, um, and then he passed away
and it was really hard.
You know we we really mournedthat loss as a museum and also
just him as a person, beautifulhuman being.
But I got to know his, hiswidow, susie, and she was so
kind.
She gave us additional fossilsafter after his passing, um, and
(40:29):
so what we did was we did areally nice tribute to him and
we added some new new thingslike a Terradon and, um, some
new fossils and minerals thatwere on display and we had a
tribute to him last year.
So if you have been there butyou haven't been back, there's
some really cool new stuff tosee and touch.
Um.
And then we just added thetrain exhibit, which is
outrageous.
It's 3000 square feet ofterrain, 1200 square feet a
track.
Um, there's a uh, real Thomasthe tank engine kid is oh, come
(40:53):
on, yeah, I'm singing.
I'm singing to the choir, asthey say so.
But, um, it's really coolbecause there's like this
nightfall experience.
It happens real fast, but it'slike the sun comes up, the sun
goes down and it gets real darkand pretty.
Then all the streetlights comeon and the little lights on the
cars and stuff and it's magical.
I mean honestly, and you know,there's something like nostalgic
(41:13):
about trains and just kind oflike romantic.
I don't know like everybodyfalls in love with it.
And then every time I go upthere and I mean obviously I
work there, so I go all the time, but I always see some other
new little vignette or somethingI didn't notice.
And there's like these littlerock climber guys on the way out
.
They're like my absolutefavorite.
So I don't know it's reallyeasy to get lost and fall in
love with the exhibit and thework and the artistry that's
(41:34):
gone into it.
And we were so lucky and we hada couple that reached out to us
on Instagram, if you canbelieve that, and they said, hey
, we got a model train, do youwant it?
We're picturing like a box, andthen they send us pictures and
they're like no, you would haveto have it shipped.
It turns out the the trainitself is worth two and a half
million dollars and to ship itand build it was like another
(41:54):
million wow and they coveredeverything.
They brought in their own trainexperts to lay it out, and build
it and paint it, and you knowand and take care of it.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
So we're we're really , really fortunate on that love
that Like there's so manypassionate people across the the
journey.
That's like I mean.
He doesn't have to like theRaptor guy.
He doesn't have to sit thereevery Saturday and explain
things.
He can do whatever he wants to,but I know he's passionate and
it's like that each one teachone mentality.
Yeah, Like.
Let me tell you about the firsttime I dug one of these up and
the kids like what do you mean?
Speaker 1 (42:23):
He's like well, let me tell you.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
And then there's people like they could sell
trains, they could do whatever,but be like no, I actually do
want kids to feel the joy ofthis, Like I felt once upon a
time.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Absolutely.
You're so right about that.
That's one of the fun thingsabout being in the space is that
you're right.
You meet these passionatepeople that just really care
about their particular area andthey want to share it.
And it's like, how is that so?
And then our one that we'reopening um this weekend.
Um, it was, as we mentioned, uma season.
We're, we have a um a truck andwe have an amazing um museum
(42:52):
fabricator.
This is kind of our behind thescenes at a children's museum.
He's incredible.
He used to work at hell theater.
He's an artist.
He does stained glass.
He's just, he can weld.
He does everything really nicemild manner guy.
Um, anyway, he, he made thistruck like.
He welded it in our shop in themuseum and it's a seven by 14
(43:13):
child-sized tractor trailer.
But that's a pretty big truck,yeah, especially to be like,
give me a month, I'll figurethis out.
I got this, yeah, and so he yeah, he made it and it's beautiful.
And there's a lot of you know,cause and effect, a lot of
buttons and switches and funthings.
And then we have this reallycool sorting um, the sorting uh
thing that you can do in theback where, like you're actually
(43:33):
like in a in a stock room andyou're matching you know, for
kids they love it matching colorand looking at the different
attributes of the vegetables anddeciding where they go, and
it's just, it's just going to beso much fun.
So we opened that this Saturday, which I'm excited about.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
That's exciting.
I got to go find one of mynieces and nephews.
Please, I don't want to getlooked at too weird, come with
me.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
I always say this, and I'm actually not joking we
actually won't let an adult inby themselves, so you actually
need a child.
Yes, yeah, so, and then down thepike, not too far down the pike
, uta has sponsored an exhibitand we're actually going to
Matt's at it again.
He's going to build a bus forthe kids to play on, and we have
(44:15):
a brilliant designer.
He's a consultant for us, hisname is Norm Judd and he's
worked in museum spaces and hiswork is impeccable and he's such
a joy to work for.
So he has it all laid out andnow Matt just has to build it.
And then after that we'reopening Intermountain Healthcare
Exhibit and that's going to belike what a lot of science
museums have, where they havethe big bubbles that kids can
play with parents and kids.
That's like a crowd pleaser.
(44:36):
And then there's thisprojection mapping kind of dance
studio where, like, the floorand the wall will like mirror
their movements with music andthe concept behind that exhibit,
which I'm very excited about.
Intermountain Healthcare hasbeen a long-term supporter of
the Children's Museum, but theywanted to get away from a more
literal interpretation.
They used to have like anemergency room that the kids
(44:57):
really thought was cool andeverything, but their new
branding is this dudes, wherethey're looking at the emotional
wellbeing of children, and sothe exhibit is all about, you
know, trying to create thatengagement with their emotions
and playfulness and also beingable to identify how they're
feeling.
So there's also going to bethis really cool maze where kids
and parents can work togetherand children can determine how
they're feeling that day andmimic, like their parents,
(45:19):
expressions through thesemirrors and these windows and
put different lights onthemselves.
So they can, you know, thinkabout like what if I'm angry Is
that red, you know start tostart to be more cognizant of
how they feel and then also talkabout it.
And um, and it's just been anamazing partnership.
We worked with one of theirchild psychologists to come up
with some of the concepts andI'm just so impressed with how
(45:39):
our teams have just workedtogether to create this really
unique experience.
And we will we will be workingon that after UTA.
So that's, that's already on thepipeline and that's so many
great things back to back, toback, I know, right, and this is
all like on the third floor, soif you haven't been up there,
you need to go upstairs.
A lot of people don't get offthe first floor because the kids
are having so much fun.
But, and then the, the big, thebiggie that we're still
(46:00):
fundraising for and we we have.
We have reached quite a bit ofour goal, but we're actually
going to put in the largestchildren's rooftop garden in the
country on our rooftop, yeah,and it's going to have a?
Um a big greenhouse, so it'd beyear round for the kids and
we're going to teach all about,you know, food and plants and um
pollinators and there's goingto be a water feature.
It's going to be reallybeautiful and soothing for kids
(46:23):
and families, but they're alsogoing to learn a lot.
And then at night we're goingto turn it into a great rental
space and we're going to getthat earned revenue.
So we can keep helping all thesekids.
It's like, what a spy hop didthere you go, there you go, yeah
, and it's going to bebeautifully lit and there's
going to be a water feature, andso you can rent it out for
weddings and banquets and allkinds of fun things, so at night
.
So it's like it's a, it's a,it's a win-win.
(46:44):
So, yeah, so that'll be our,our last project, and then the
entire museum will be renovated.
So we're going to have to startcircling back through, I guess,
and find some refresh for us.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
Yeah Well, kathleen, I always ask every guest two
questions before we end.
Number one if you could havesomeone on the small Lake city
podcast and hear more abouttheir story, what they're up to.
Who do you want to hear from?
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Wow, that's a great question.
I got to think about that one.
You know somebody that I know,that I'm I know very well
professionally has been a reallybig and early supporter of our
museum.
But I would be curious to seehim on the on the podcast,
because he's done so much forhis community And's so quiet
about it is Jeff Miller fromMark Miller Subaru.
(47:29):
He has helped so manyorganizations and he just does
it with this just really gentlespirit and is just there for the
community and I think he wouldbe a really interesting guest,
Totally and like I don't know ifit's the same, because I
haven't gotten to knowcommunities quite like this in
other places, but like theautomotive carhip community in
utah is a very big one.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
It is, I mean, every name, from, I mean, larry h
miller to the strongs, to thedally, to like I can go down the
list, yeah, and, but the onethat I feel like is the most
interactive with the communitycares gives back is to the brew
yeah, I agree, I.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
I mean, I've been very impressed.
He helps so many organizationsand he's just so generous and
yet just so nonchalant about it.
You know what I mean?
Just not looking for thefanfare, so he might not be
willing to talk about all hedoes, but he would be an
interesting guest.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
I've cracked a couple nuts before.
I'm sure you have.
I'm sure you were the amount ofpeople that's like.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
I don't know if this is going to be good, or I don't
know if I'm going to like thisand by the end they're like all
right, fine, I had a good time.
Yeah, you kind of make it fun.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
I hope so.
Yeah, you do Imagine coming inso excited and then leaving just
like I don't like this, thisisn't fun.
And then, lastly, if best placeto find information, yeah,
check us out atdiscoverygatewayorg.
Cool, yeah, awesome.
So go check it out.
If you're like me and youremember the old Children's
(48:56):
Museum on Beck Street and nowyou have your own kids that you
want to go have a sharedexperience with, get into that
childlike state of play, gocheck it out.
And if you want to loan me yourchild so I can go, I won't say
no.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
Your child, so I can go.
I wouldn't, I won't say no butno, kathy, it's been.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
It's been amazing.
Thank you so much for coming on.
I'm excited to see the fulldone museum.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
I'm taking my niece and nephew and we're gonna have
a day with it.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
Thank you so much for having me Thank you.
That was the weird part for me.
It's like I thought successwould make me fulfilled and it
was not fulfilling.
So I left a corporate careerabout 10 years ago and I went to
follow my dream of working inthe museum I grew up on, which
was Carnegie Museum ofPittsburgh.
When I told my family that Iwas going to move to Utah and
take over a failing children'smuseum, my son-in-law said of
(00:21):
all the things I thought weregoing to come out of your mouth,
that was absolutely not it.
We're trying to create exhibitsthat are not only fun for the
kids, but it's super fun for theparents to be with the kids.
I will never tire of that.
I could be in my job a millionyears.
You have been there but youhaven't been back.
There's some really cool newstuff to see and touch.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
What is up everybody and welcome back to another
episode of the Small Lake CityPodcast.
I'm your host, eric Nielsen.
Now, if you're born and raisedin Salt Lake, you remember the
Children's Museum that was onBeck Street.
It had so many fun things, fromthe mini basketball court to
the supermarket, and that museumeventually moved to the Gateway
.
Now this week's guest isKathleen Bodenlos, the CEO of
(00:59):
Discovery Children's Museum atGateway.
She also won the 2024 CEO of theYear Award in Utah for the
transformation of the Children'sMuseum, going from a nearly
defunct museum coming out ofCOVID to now expediting her
plans from 10 years down to five, bringing in a lot of corporate
sponsors and bringing in a lotof new exhibitions to our youth.
(01:20):
We talk a lot about her pathinto getting into it, from going
from corporate America and notfeeling fulfilled to jumping
into one of her childhoodpassions, which was going to
museums, learning and exploring.
There's something for everyonein this one, whether you have
kids and go to the museum now,or you're trying to find a
little bit more creativity and alittle bit more of that
childlike spark in your life.
So, yeah, check it out and I'llsee you on the other side, I
(01:45):
love.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I love the name of your podcast because it's just
like Pittsburgh.
That's where I grew up and it'sabout the same size.
You know population and we usedto always say it's like your
one degree from knowingeverybody and I've only lived
here five years and it feelslike that.
I mean I'm constantly runningpeople that I do know somehow.
Yeah, like, and I've only livedhere five years.
It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Because it's a saying in Salt Lake that's been.
I mean, I don't even rememberthe first time I heard it, but
go out somewhere.
Oh my gosh, I haven't seen yousince high school.
Yep, small Lake City, yeah.
But then there's this wholeanother level when because even
when I was thinking about thepodcast and like brainstorming
on what I wanted to do and how Iwanted to do it, there was like
I was like what am I going tocall this thing if I did?
And it was humming and hawingover a couple of things and I
(02:26):
can't remember.
But like at another one ofthose moments and someone was
like yep, small Lake city.
I was like that's it, found it.
I think it's perfect and it'salso fun when, um, cause,
there's it's one thing to livein Salt Lake and experience
small Lake city podcast calledthat and chase that energy, it's
(02:47):
a whole nother level I canimagine, like there was there
was one time I was on a datewith someone and they're like oh
, like they're saying somethingto the extent of like blah, blah
, blah, like I have therapylater, and she's like I love my
therapist name so-and-so.
And I was like is so-and-so'slast name this?
And she's like yeah, I'm likecool, I used to work with your
therapist at red robin when Iwas in college, so there's that
there's so much crossover, it'sinsane.
(03:08):
Yeah, so I mean and they justkeep out like I'm now to the
point where I just kind of likeyep, like of course you knew my
cousin from some sort of soccerteam, and this is how we do this
, and you married someone, Iwork, like those sort of things,
like it yeah, exactly ithappens so and it's.
It's fun to hear like I mean,I've heard that about pittsburgh
, I've heard that somewhat aboutlike parts of like portland and
(03:29):
so they're like these kind oflike smaller cities where you're
born and raised there.
It's just kind of it's kind ofjust the social circle and you
bump into people all the timeyeah, I mean, I wasn't born and
raised here.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
it's weirder still, right, like how did I make all
these connections so fast, like,and it's just, it's just, it's
a friendly place, it is.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah and uh.
I mean one of the like, thenotes that people have about it
is like oh, like everyone's nicehere, but then it's like they
have these other motives behindit, Like your neighbors will be
nice, but they're like but wewant you to come to church.
I'm like I would rather the eyelike across the street and just
(04:05):
like looks runs the other way.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
So I was only.
I bought a house in Rose Parkand I was only in my house for
about a week and I had met everyneighbor on my street.
They just came over and justintroduced themselves.
They were so nice and like I'velooked a lot of places and you
don't always find that and therewas.
There was actually nomotivation.
I think they were just curiouswho moved in which?
Is great All right, let's goknock on our door and find out,
right.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Which is great, because I mean that's sweet.
That's really sweet.
It's like one of thecornerstones of a community in
general.
I mean you have to show up, youhave to talk to people, you
have to have like social.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Yeah, you have to be curious, right?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah, yeah like people always like one thing
I've probably mentioned thislike five times on the podcast
now, but I'm gonna do it againis like one thing I've been
trying to live.
More is just like get out ofthe house like nothing good
happens in the walls of yourhouse and I know there's like if
you're raising a family, if youhave kids, like very different,
but like no one's gonna comeand knock on your door, be like
hey, do you want to be part ofmy community?
(05:00):
Hey, do you want this job?
do you want to meet this person.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
So you would support my empty refrigerator.
My friends give me such a hardtime about the emptiness of my
refrigerator, but I'm always out.
So they're like you have butterand water.
Do you really live here?
That's what I always hear whenpeople look inside.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I would go head to head with our empty fridges
right now.
Cause I've been like the last,like this week I was mentioning
was in Florida.
Last week I was in Chicago andthe week before that I was in
Phoenix, and so I came home tomy sister was over and I was
looking at my fridge.
I'm like I have nothing to eat.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
She's like well, duh, you've been like what do you
expect your fridge is going tobe populated?
Yeah, you don't want to buy abunch of groceries and leave.
It doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
So I agree, like an empty fridge.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
It's a good sign.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah, go spend time with people, go out, be in the
world.
And even on the theme of SmallLake City, there was a couple
weeks in a row where someonereached out to me like, hey, I
have this event, I have thisextra ticket, I have something.
Do you want to come?
And the way, a lot of my Idon't even know if it's social
anxiety as much as just mygeneral preferences, but I like
to have a plan.
And any deviation from plan I'mlike maybe next time.
(06:05):
And so someone calls me like,hey, what are you doing in an
hour?
Let's go to this dinner.
I'm like, fine, I'll do it.
But then I'd show up to theseinvitations and there'd be
someone who I've been eithertrying to meet or someone I've
been wanting to talk to be likewhat do you know so.
I'm trying to reprogram my brain, and that's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
It's wonderful to try to do that.
I have a really good friendhere who she says I'm good for
because I'm a little bit morespontaneous than her, and she
will do that too.
She'll book me like three weeksout and it's totally normal for
her.
It's adorable.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
She's like I want to know what I'm doing three weeks
from now, which I mean that'spart of adulting, as much as I
hate that term.
In like I have one friend whohe loves to think we're all
still in high school and can belike hey, what are you guys up
to tonight?
Do you want to hang out?
Like I can ride, like almostlike can I ride my bike over?
We can play video games, I know, right, I'm like listen, I've
had this night booked for likelike two weeks, like let's let's
plan ahead.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
As much as I hate to be that person, you just it is
what it is.
It is what it is.
I know you get enough plannerfriends.
It forces you, you intoplanning, because then you know
they learn that they can't justcall you that night.
That's what you're trainingthem, little by little.
Little by little, we'll be likeon our deathbeds.
I'd like to schedule your.
I want to see you one last time.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
So your euthanasia is ?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
on the third.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I'd be like now you finally get the schedule.
That's hilarious, kathleen.
I'm excited to talk today.
Kathleen Bodenlos Yep, I got itright, okay.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
You nailed it.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
I'll take it.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
And that's not easy to do.
I've seen harder, but I'vedefinitely seen easier.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Okay, but from Discovery's Children's Museum.
Everybody's probably walked byit at the Gateway.
If you have kids, you'veprobably been on a chaperone on
a field trip there or takingthem to be busy.
But uh, it's.
It's something that's beenaround for so long and I didn't
realize until I was starting topoke around and do some research
.
So I was like wait, like it'slike 50 years.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Yeah, crazy.
We used to be on beck street.
A lot of people who are olderremember that.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
So yeah, yes, and that's what I was going to ask
you about is because so I livepretty close to you.
I'm in marmalade okay yeah,we're practically neighbors.
I mean, I live like literally ablock away from warm springs
park.
Take my dogs there every dayright, but, as I've noticed is
there's that building startingto come to life and there's some
construction going on in thereso I was curious if you had any
information.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I actually don't, that's not us, so yeah, very
interesting it's a cool building.
I mean, I've never been, butit's very cool looking.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
I've spent a lot of time inside that.
Oh, have you really mychildhood I remember there they
used to have this.
It was like this supermarketsection and you felt like you
were in a real supermarket andyou'd go check stuff out.
And there was this dark starroom.
That was super cool.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
We still have a supermarket, by the way.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
No way.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
All right, I can't believe you're old enough to
remember Beck Street.
Yeah, yeah, you're wearing yourage as well there.
Buddy, my memory is a blessingand a curse.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah, I can remember some of the minutia of my
childhood.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
But yeah, I remember that museum very well.
That is very cool and justbecause, again, like there's so
many times from my childhoodthat I'd like I mean it's always
like positive memories, unlessthey're like really negative,
but I mean it's those fun oneswhere I remember going there and
just like having fun andrunning around with my siblings
or friends or whatever it was,so I'm glad to know that the
supermarket is still alive andwell.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
It is still alive and well.
In fact, we're building andwe're opening a new exhibit this
weekend and we've expanded onthe grocery store.
So it's sponsored by Macy's, ohno way yeah, and we're going to
open a new Associated Foodstractor trailer exhibit right
next to it.
So basically, the idea is totry to teach kids where, like,
all the groceries come from inthe store, because it's teaching
that you know kind of cause andeffect, that you know
(09:38):
encouraging that curiousthinking yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, I love that.
That's a good way to do it.
I mean especially working withI mean, running a museum isn't
free nor cheap and seeing peoplethat want to partner and really
make it a great experience forkids and I mean again like cause
it's one thing to be like ohyeah, supermarket, Cool you go
with your mom you grab stuff youcheck out, you go home.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
But it's also great.
One of the things that reallyhappens in a children's museum
is all the socialization, andkids need that still so much
after everything we went throughwith COVID, especially young
children you know, it's real.
I have many parents tell methat that's what they love about
it.
Their kids show up there withtheir family, but then they make
new friends in that day and itjust builds their social
confidence.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
So it's good, yeah, I mean especially when you're
like if I'm a kid who, let's say, went through COVID and that
was traumatizing for a lot ofreasons and then come back to
school as social worlds, butlike even I don't know like the
more that we can train peoplefrom an earlier age, that
there's more ways to makefriends outside of the structure
that we've created as a society, that where that should happen,
(10:41):
and what I mean by that is Imean up until the age of 20,
let's call it 23 you're relianton your education as what your
social circles are, from themost early ones outside of your
child, outside of your home,till all right, like you have a
degree, you're, you're an adult.
Go do something and if youdon't go to school.
Let's call it 18.
And then that's one thing Ihear about so much from people
is they'll get out of school,like I mean, I mean everybody
(11:03):
from late twenties, thirties,forties and on.
They're like I don't know howto meet people.
I don't know where to go tomeet people.
And so the more that we caninstill this um, I don't want to
say pressure, but like showthem that hey, look, like, oh,
you can run into someone in hereand like talk to someone and
say hey, like let's have a playdate and go hang out, and so the
can have these naturalinteractions in society, no
(11:23):
matter your age, whether you'reholding on to your mom's hand
and crossing the road, or if youwant to go meet someone and
grab a drink, like that's, it'sskills that we all need.
I totally agree with you, like Iwant to hear more about your
back Cause like you've been alot of different places.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I have, I mean from Pittsburgh, but walk me through
this like uh, my trajectory,yeah, Well, so I I left a
corporate career about 10 yearsago and I went to follow my
dream of working in the museum Igrew up on, which was Carnegie
museum of Pittsburgh, and, um,it was like a big pay cut.
I had to, um, basicallypleasantly persist with the HR
(12:00):
department to get an interview,because sometimes with museums
it's hard to have an entry pointif you have a totally different
background.
But I was convinced I hadtransferable skills and of
course, it was a learning curveto work in a museum.
It's just very different than acorporate environment, but I
fell in love with it.
Getting to see the hiddencollections was really the
amazing part of it.
The stuff you never see, youknow, because it's not out on
(12:21):
the floor and it's massive.
And then from there, I took apromotion.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I want to stop there for a second Talk to me about
this calling Cause.
There's so many people thatagain like if there's, if
there's this, this not knowinghow to meet people is the first
one.
The second conversation I havethe most with people is I've
been doing what everybody toldme to do.
I've been following thesecareer steps.
I've reached this point.
I don't know how I got here.
I don't really like it.
I don't know what to do.
So we'd love to hear a littlemore of like that decision to be
like all right, corporateAmerica, like there's actually
something I want to do and alittle insight into that
(13:09):
no-transcript and it waslucrative and I worked really
hard and I think that was theweird part for me.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
It's like I thought I thought success would make me
fulfilled and it was notfulfilling at all.
It was so weird I actuallyliked what I did too, which also
added a layer of weird that Iwasn't content and I love
history, I love art and I lovearchitecture and, like I said, I
grew up on that museum and Ithought it would be cool to work
behind the scenes and try towork with the scientists and
(13:38):
everything and promote them.
So the job sounded really coolto me and sounded challenging
and I had to take a big pay cut.
A lot of my friends were likehave you gone mad?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
You've worked your tail off, so I was like probably
, but yeah, it was weird.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
As soon as I started, even though there were so many
challenges to learn, theenvironment and the work, I just
loved it.
I didn't feel like I wasworking anymore and I thought,
wow, this is like it's right forme.
So I just kind of fell into it.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I guess you could say yeah, no, I love that Because
it takes action right, becausethere's so many people that I
mean have felt similar.
They're like well, I'msuccessful by a lot of
definitions people would give me.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I'm doing well, but something doesn't feel right.
And so it's like hard to makesense of all of these
conflicting emotions, but theonly thing that really does pull
you out of these conflictingemotions is action.
And so for you to be like Ithink this is what I want to do,
which is I like that you wentback to be like well, I like
this.
I've known that I've grown tolove art, history, architecture,
(14:45):
kind of the finer things oflife, and I feel like it stemmed
from this, because anytime Italk to someone where they feel
like let's call it lost, likewell, when was the last time you
felt joy?
When was the last time you feltthis?
And sometimes for people it'slike I was, I was a kid, and the
more that we can be in achildlike state of play, the
happier that we will be, themore joy we'll bring in our
process, which starts a wholepinwheel of things you just gave
me goosebumps.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Well said, that's kind of what we live by at the
Children's Museum.
Right, and more of us shouldyeah.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
It's kind of the whole concept, honestly, what
you just said.
Yeah, there's a book I read andit's written as like kind of
like a parable, and it's calledoh my gosh, I.
And it's called oh my gosh,I'll think of it later.
But the basis is this guy he'strying to be successful, he's in
sales and one of his mentors islike, oh, you've got to meet
with this guy.
(15:34):
He's helped so many of myfriends go do it.
And he's like, okay, he's goingto give me typical sales
knowledge, go on.
But it's almost like a Christmascarol takes him to all these
different people and there's allthese like lessons they learn
and one of them he goes to he'slike, oh, you have to go meet my
friend so and so in marketing.
She's, I mean, super successful, company's great, like all the
buzzwords.
But they walk into one of themeetings and it's just like a
(15:55):
bunch of easels and crayons andjust like all this stuff.
He's like, oh, is this like thedaycare?
He's like, no, no, no, no, comeon in.
And so that's one thing Ipersonally believe in is the
more that you can lean into thatchildlike state and forget
about the responsibilities,forget about what's on your
plate and your deliverables andyour deadlines and it's end of
quarter and really just start toenjoy it.
(16:16):
Like that was one thing that Ifound.
I mean two things.
Like one, I started paintingabout two and a half years ago.
Cool, and because, like so muchof my brain, especially
professionally, is so pragmatic,it's so numeric, it's so
structured, it's so processdriven that I needed something
to just pull me out of that.
It really does too, doesn't itand it was one of those things I
never really cause.
I took art classes or I woulddraw, be like, yeah, I suck at
(16:37):
this, whatever, moving on, let'sgo play soccer.
But I would.
It was the first.
I'm like no, no, no, we'retrying at this.
And it was weird to be likethere was one time I was
painting this apple.
It was like the first fewmonths and I was like kept
looking like this is so stupid,I hate this, I suck at this.
Someone comes behind me likewow, that's really good.
And in my head I'm like shut up.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I'm like I know you want is pretty good.
Isn't that weird?
I always do that when I painttoo.
I'm self-taught, and what I'lldo is I'll take a picture
because I'm a person.
I want to destroy things.
If I don't like the painting, Iwant to get rid of it because
I'm like oh, that was a mistake.
And I do the same thing now.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I take a picture and I give myself a day think I like
doing this, I think I likedoing that and to your point of
it felt didn't feel like workanymore.
I feel like you were beingyourself and I remember the
first time I recorded which wasin was like again goosebumps,
like all right, I don't know ifthis is the end, but this is
part of the journey and we'rejust going to keep pulling at
this.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
That's awesome.
I love that you found it.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
We're still.
It's a journey, not adestination, and I try to keep
like.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
But you found something in it and that's,
that's the you can.
You can feel that when ithappens right Exactly and like
that.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
That feeling is a very unique one that I want
everybody to find, but know thatnot everyone will.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah Well, and you know you said something earlier
that made me think of something.
So when you say children'smuseum, I think people imagine
like they just drop their kidoff, like it's daycare, and what
really happens is when theparents have to stay with the
kids in the children's museum.
Right, we have a greatoperations team, but they can't
watch all these.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
It's not a daycare.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeah, we just have too many moving parts right, too
many kids and too many exhibits.
But what's really cool is thatwe're trying now, with our new
train exhibit and our dinosaurexhibit and another exhibit that
Intermountain Healthcare isbringing on, we're trying to
create exhibits that are notonly fun for the kids but it's
super fun for the parents to bewith the kids and that's when
(18:42):
you really see that joy and thatdiscovery, because the parents
are learning right alongside.
The kids are just having ablast either way.
So it's um, it really made methink of that when you said that
earlier about getting out ofour own heads.
I think that's something thatchildren's museum can do for
families is it can bring a lotof joy and fun and, just, you
know, time together.
That's sort of different thanother things that you might do
and kind of spark a different adifferent experience with your
(19:05):
family.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
So yeah, I mean, life is all about shared experiences
and especially it's hard whenI'm an adult.
I have a kid like yeah, I don'treally know what, I'm not going
to go on the playground withyou or I might get stuck, but
there, are these experienceswhere you can meet in the middle
and you can both find yourselfhaving that joy in the process.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah, it's, it seems to be working.
And you know, I think I thinkwhen parents are having as much
fun as the kids, it makes thekids see their parents a little
bit different too.
You know a more playful side,and it's funny because I'm such
a geek Like I go to museumsbecause I want to geek out.
But the number one reason thatmost normal people go to museums
is they want to spend time withfriends and family.
Exactly what you just said Lovethat, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Anyway, coming back to it, so sure, so you decide to
go work at the museum, you, youfeel this, this calling towards
it more alignment.
But then I mean, let's pick upfrom there.
I mean, what did the journey gofrom that point?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
So it was wonderful.
I absolutely loved Carnegie.
My role there was in marketingand what I was trying to do was
get the scientists who weregoing on expeditions.
They were super cool but theyweren't getting much media
attention and I think it wasbecause they're brilliant and
they speak about their work insuch depth, right, and they have
such a deep understanding.
And you know, I think we're allguilty of this when you really
understand something, well,sometimes you pick up in the
(20:17):
middle because you're like, well, the beginning is obvious.
But you know, to a lay personlike me, I didn't understand the
beginning and I needed tounderstand it, and so we found
some innovative ways to get themin front of a lot of people,
and one was we did a live stream.
It was just me and my iPhoneand a tripod and I would go in
their hidden collections and Iwould just have them talk about
their collections, and it reallytook off.
(20:38):
I mean, npr covered it, othermuseums adopted it and we even
had bartenders from Irelandtuning in and like posting
questions.
You know, it was like appealingto a wide range of people.
It was really, really fun.
So we did some innovation andthey were great sports and they
got them on the map, you know,because people are like holy cow
.
That's really interesting andthen, weirdly, that
simultaneously helped them intheir their scientific endeavors
(21:00):
, because a lot of times it'sjust you know people just aren't
aware of what they'recollecting, that kind of thing,
especially when you have amuseum like that.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Like I mean, there was a podcast.
One of my favorite podcasts isrevisionist history with Malcolm
Gladwell.
He did an episode on the Louvreand talks about how many pieces
that they have and what you seein the museum.
No matter how many times theyrotate things out, some things
are never going to see the lightof day.
Some things are going to bethere forever but you don't know
until you like again, likestart highlighting it and give
away for people to understandthat and give way to time, chime
(21:30):
in.
So if I'm a bartender, I'm likewell, I don't know, I got
nothing else.
I can watch this while I work.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Exactly, yeah, so.
So I had some cool, coolexperiences there.
I absolutely loved it.
And then I decided to take avice president role at
Cincinnati Museum Center and theNational Underground Railroad
Freedom Center.
It's all under the sameumbrella and that was super
interesting.
Cincinnati Museum Center is inan old Art Deco train station.
(21:57):
It's like the Justice Center,you know.
If you can picture that, that'swhat it looks like with that,
you know, half dome.
It's really beautiful and itwas beautifully renovated.
Right before I got there and mywork there was a little bit more
diverse.
I was doing operations,fundraising, a bunch of
different stuff.
It was super fun.
We brought in some reallythought provoking exhibits at
the National UndergroundRailroad Freedom Center.
One was looking at the humantrafficking that goes up and
(22:17):
down 75 corridor.
It was really amazing.
It was made by a student andshe basically would take.
It was very edgy and you wouldbe led through as if you were
being trafficked, wow.
So it was very, very powerfuland it brought up some really
interesting discussions in thatcommunity and I was really happy
as a clam there.
I love my team, I lovedeverything about it.
But then a ton of us gotfurloughed because of COVID,
(22:39):
yeah, and I hung in there for alittle bit, planning to go back,
but I'm not a girl who can'tsit home for three months.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
You know I was like it's only so much sourdough you
can make.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
That's the truth of it.
Man, I painted a couple of hugepaintings.
I'm like I need a job, I need aJLB.
So, um, I put on some feelersand I found this position and at
that time, the children'smuseum was really struggling, um
, largely due to COVID, I meanhigh touch museum.
You can only imagine, um and soit was actually, um shuttered
for three months and then whenwe came back, you know there was
(23:09):
timed entry.
You can only let so many peoplein at once.
We had to clean all everythingall the time, um, and we still
clean a lot, but you know, Imean it was to a different,
different, different time, um,so it took us a little bit to
come back.
But we have, I mean we didwithin a couple of years and, um
, a lot of it was just findingum new corporate sponsors that
(23:32):
would fund, you know, a lot ofthese new exhibits and our.
My 10 year plan on my mind whenI took the job is like I would
love to have the whole museumrenovated in 10 years and we
have such an amazing team we'rewe're actually going to
accomplish that in five years.
I can't believe it.
I'm saying that, but it's thetruth.
So, yeah, it shows you how muchpeople love the children's
museum here yeah again, becausethey all remember the back.
They do, they do remember ityeah, it's, it's, it's, it's an
(23:53):
easy end because people are likeI love that place.
That's the person people say tome.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
They think about it for a minute and they go oh, I
love that place it's a goodresponse, yeah it's not like a
door shut yeah there's a coupleplaces you could probably work
at and try to fundraise, likenot even maybe Right, but I mean
talk to me about what, likementally, because again, like
from Pittsburgh then you go toOhio, I mean we're like I guess
we'll try out Salt Lake.
(24:16):
Did you have any touchpadsbefore that?
What was your thoughts on thegeography in general before you
got here?
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Yeah, when I told my familythat I was going to move to Utah
and take over a failingchildren's museum, my son-in-law
said of all the things Ithought were going to come out
of your mouth, that wasabsolutely not it.
So, yeah, but I knew I wouldlove hiking out here and
originally I had thought I wouldjust come out for about four or
five years and then head back,because most of my families were
(24:45):
all spread out all over theEast Coast but they're all back
there.
But I came out here and Ithought you know, I'm gonna have
to take up knitting and becomea cat lady, because who am I
going to meet in the middle ofCOVID, you know?
And this place is amazing.
Like I made friends right out ofthe gate and I've made friends
everywhere I've ever lived, butsometimes it takes a while.
This place I'll tell you what Ihad friends, sorry, I had
friends right away andeverybody's so generous.
(25:08):
They introduced me to theirfriends and I just kept them and
made new friends.
So after I had all that happen,I'm like I don't want to leave
this place.
I love it, it's gorgeous and Ilove the people here and I just
felt so happy.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
So I bought a house.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
It's hard to hate it.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
No, I love that, yeah , so you get here it.
No, I love that, yeah, so soyou get here.
You're like all right, we'regoing to renovate this, we're
going to bring this back to life.
Um, I mean, talk to me abouthow I mean something.
I mean, whether it be thesecorporate sponsors that made it
happen or the team that made ithappen, cause that's a I mean,
that's a big task to do so much.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
It's huge and you know, at first I mean it.
You know a lot of that wasfundraising and kind of flipping
the model where we fundraise,we get the money and then we
build, so we're we'refinancially stable, and then
(25:58):
we're in this unique positionnow where our supporters have
given us the funds and they'reon our roster for our build, so
that's like the perfect place tobe when you're in a museum.
So I would say the board andthe fundraising was like I don't
call it easy because everythingtakes time and it's hard work,
right, but relatively easy whenyou think about the brand equity
(26:21):
, I guess is what I'm trying tosay.
People know what we are andthey have a memory of it.
So it's not as hard asfundraising for something that
you have to first educate themwhat it even is, and then you
know so.
So I felt like that, um, youknow, the the, um, the love of
the place was also reallyhelpful in us building it.
And then I have an amazing team.
I mean, I have a.
I have a diverse and, um,really young team and you know
(26:46):
there's so much great work,ethic and, you know, so many
great ideas, like you know, justa lot of innovation.
I try to run it, you know, tryto manage, like I like to be
managed, where I have some roomto, you know, make mistakes and
learn from them and also come upwith some wild ideas that end
up working right.
So, you know, and I feel likethe team has really responded
(27:08):
beautifully to that and they andthey're just worked so well
together.
It's like a very good vibe, youknow so.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
I mean especially when, like, it's one thing to be
in corporate office everybodyhas their job, do your thing,
whatever, and a lot of financialmotivation.
But when you get to a placewhere it's like, hey, like we
all agree, we're not like thisisn't.
We're not here for the money,right, we're here because we do
want to make this an impactfulplace, and that's when I mean a
lot of the greatest ideas cometogether and the people actually
(27:34):
give.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
I think you're so right about that and I think
that you know I I'm stillidealistic and I still think the
glass is half full, you know.
But but a lot of the earliercareer people on my team,
they're they're right there withme, they're very idealistic and
they believe in our mission andthat's something I really hire
for.
I asked them two things.
I'm like what do you do if youdon't know something?
(27:55):
If they tell me they research alittle bit or they ask some
people questions, I'm like great, you know, that's somebody
who's like going to try tofigure things out a little bit,
cause, obviously, nonprofits, wedon't have a bunch of people
just sitting around doingresearch.
We, you know, we, we got to bea little scrappy, um.
And then the other thing Iasked him is what do you, what
do you think about our missionand do you, do you care about it
?
And if they tell me they reallycare, they're excited or they
(28:18):
love museums or they want tojust be part of something that
helps kids, I know that we'vegot a winner, you know.
So that's how we hire.
We look for people that, likeyou said, you know, really are
engaged with us and what we'retrying to do.
So what is the mission?
So, you know, honestly, we justwant it to be a fun place for
kids to learn and for all kids.
You know, and I'm really proudof our philanthropy team because
(28:39):
they really worked well ontrying to grow our museum
inclusion fund, which helps kidswho might not have a chance to
come to the museum get to come,and we partner with other
nonprofits and we fundraise forthe tickets our own tickets and
then we give them to the othernonprofits.
And we also have a greatprogram called access for all,
which, um is a really reduced um, um, um, admission price for
(29:02):
anybody who is like on any kindof public assistance and it's
it's just really well utilizedand, um, you know, it's great
because for me as a kid, um, myparents didn't have money for us
to travel and and do a lot andbut we did get to go to the
museum a lot and I feel like forme, that's where it really
opened my mind to what's outthere.
You know, traveling to go seethis stuff someday, that was my
(29:24):
dream.
Or just understanding like, wow, somebody painted that.
You know, just standing infront of a big artwork like a
human being made that look like.
Whatever you know, whateverthis is, you know the scene.
So I just thought, wow, would itbe cool if we can expand that
program and get as many kids inas we possibly can, who maybe
you know wouldn't come otherwise.
And um, and I was so happy wewere able to get some funding it
(29:49):
was about two years ago fromFirst Utah Bank and they funded
our summer camp scholarshipprogram and I mean it's
impactful, right.
Kids are socializing andlearning and playing in the
museum and what a great way tospend your summer.
So it's just a win-win.
It feels good to even talkabout it and I'm very proud of
our team for working so hard tomake you know all that happen
(30:28):
pretty well-known local artists,um, both like religious and
fantasy and like sci-fi.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
But he was talking about how, when he grew up,
there's this age that kids justkind of stopped drawing, stopped
coloring, stopped thinking.
But he never did, he just kindof kept going with it.
And I think that we as asociety definitely an american
society have said oh no, no,don't do this.
Like, you need to go go playsports, you can get a
scholarship.
Go get good grades, so you canget a scholarship.
Go do all of these things.
Because there's like like aquote roi attached to it, when,
(30:51):
in reality, the people that I'veseen who've leaned into their
creativity and have really builtthose muscles, are the ones
that have come, been the mostsuccessful and been the most fun
during it.
Because, again, like,creativity is such an
interesting word and a lot ofpeople like, if I ask someone,
are you creative?
Creative, like, oh, I couldnever paint, I can never draw,
I'm like no, no, no, no, no,that's artistry, right, let's
come back to this.
So creativity is just is amindset and a way to approach
(31:13):
something, cause I mean, likeyou were talking with, uh, in
your interview process, beinglike, well, if you D8, id8, id8,
that's the word about how toeven get from point A to point B
.
Right, you're right.
But also to even be like, eh, wecould do it this way, we could
do it that way, we could comeover under through back, loop
back around, and so, the morethat we can open up people's
(31:36):
brains to really go from tell mewhat to do and how to do it to
how about this?
That's where so much value iscreated, so much value is
created.
And so, again, another one ofthose things we can just help
kids be more kids and help uscreate a way for everybody to
have that opportunity.
What else could you ask for?
Speaker 1 (31:55):
No, you're absolutely right, and that's the other
component of children's museumsthat we really strive for and I
think we nail it.
But we really try to give thatmoment of wonder, like where
there's just like that wowmoment for kids.
And I'll tell you what I willnever tire of that I could be in
my job a million years and whenI walk through those galleries
and I hear kids just freakingout, they're like, oh, wow, you
(32:15):
could press this button and thenthis thing happens, like
they're just, they're over themoon.
And this one, when we first putthe dinosaur exhibit in, this
kid must have come on a fieldtrip with his class and he was
like explaining what was goingto happen to his grandmother and
his mom and they were going upthe piano stairs, going into the
museum and they the mom and thegrandmother were just surprised
they were making the music andthis kid was like, don't worry
(32:37):
about that, where do you seethese dinosaurs?
They got her utah raptor.
You could touch the bones.
Like it was just adorable.
I was like I wish I had my, Iwish, I wish I had phone ready
and I could have captured allthat.
It was like gorgeous.
So you like, just like you said, just igniting that curiosity.
And I think if you experiencethat when you're young, whatever
it is, whatever's getting youall excited, you know if you
(32:58):
keep, if you keep a touch pointthere, you'll stay.
You know as equally engaged asan adult and want to keep
learning, and to me that'sreally where you know.
I feel like the brain justturns on when you keep that.
You know, keep that gray matter, just high, energized and
you're super curious.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Oh, yeah, there's a quote I've stuck with a lot
recently where I mean theopposite of depression isn't
happiness, the opposite ofdepression is expression, and so
the more that we can expressourselves, especially in any
creative ways, artistic ways,whatever it can be then the less
, in theory, depressed thatyou'll be.
It's fair and so I mean even inmy life and I'm curious if you
have the same feeling.
But like, if I'm ever likeoverstressed or I feel like I'm
(33:36):
in my head or I can't get out,I'm like when's the last time I
painted?
And it'll be like it was threeweeks ago.
I'll be like cool, we'repainting because we just need to
sit in front of something andjust completely go, just on the
other side of things.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Now, you're so right about that and you know what's
interesting too.
I read a study on paintingbecause I don't consider myself
very good, and you know I don'thave.
I don't think I'm a naturaltalent, I think it's just good
for me and no matter what youroutcome according to the study
no matter, I mean, even ifyou're just painting, you know
straight lines across a canvasit's doing stuff to your brain.
(34:09):
That's really healthy.
And I was like, wow, no wonderI enjoyed, even though a lot of
times my panties are horrible.
That's totally fine, you know,and I don't believe you that
they're horrible but becausethat's what I say to myself.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
But also like there's also this weird culture of like
you can't have a hobby you'rebad at like everything
everything you have to do youhave to be good at it.
It has to be something you canshow people like no, go out
there and suck, like it's not,like I picked up.
Like the first paint class Iever took is like all right,
we're just going to draw lines.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
All right, draw a squiggle line and I'm like even
then I'm like sweating, like Idon't know, it's so much
pressure to think I'm gonna goout and try something new and
I'm just gonna crush it.
You're right, but for somereason we put that pressure on
ourselves.
Exactly.
That's so true.
That's.
That's really insightful.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
We do do that and especially to give yourself like
this little microcosm where youcan fail and be like oh cool,
like this mark sucks, cool,let's, let's fix this and be
like oh, I can't make mistakesand it's easy to fix.
So then when, like life momentcomes up, you're like, yeah,
let's fail, let's try something.
Because that's one thing I loveabout painting is it's I mean,
it's constant conflictresolution, yes, and it requires
(35:14):
action, like.
One thing I've thought a lotabout recently is how
decisiveness is a superpower,because we're all so in our
heads we overthink everything.
We have so much data.
I mean I can talk myself in orout of anything if I give myself
enough time.
I agree With painting.
It's like I can't just sit hereand think about it.
I have to make marks, I have tocolor this canvas Right, and so
(35:35):
the more you're like, oh cool,like I can be decisive and know
what I'm doing and realizesometimes it's not always going
to work, but at least I'm doingsomething You're so earlier
about travel, and when I was inBarcelona, I went to the Picasso
museum.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
That is one of the coolest museums I've ever been
in in my life and I'm a big.
I have a big problem I go toall museums.
So, when I say that I reallymean it.
But what I loved about it and Ithink you really appreciate
this as a painter they in a, ina.
I don't know if you've everbeen there, but there's in all
(36:09):
the galleries.
There's especially for his morerecent works.
There's a bunch of paintingsand it's all of his attempts to
figure out what he was trying tofigure out.
And he would work on hugecanvases and just have like a
stick figure of a child, like ahead, a nose, you know, and that
was his work for that day andit gave me so much confidence.
I'm like, holy cow, this isPicasso, you.
And it gave me so muchconfidence.
I'm like, holy cow, this isPicasso, you know.
(36:30):
I mean that maybe wouldn't be.
You know, if I did that, Iwould be like, well, I had a
rough day, you know, I only madea stick figure, but like he was
so brilliant he knew that heneeded to figure that out before
he could do the next thing.
And the other cool thing aboutit there are many beautiful
paintings where he he almostrealized his, his masterpiece,
and that in whatever thatpainting was going to be.
But there would be a couple ofpaintings that came really close
and even though, you know, Idon't think anybody has to be a
(36:54):
an art expert, you could justknow which one was the one that
was the finished product, eventhough other ones were so close.
So there's there.
There is a deep understandingin us about art, and I do think
it resonates back to ourchildhood and so, tapping into
that, no wonder it's so joyful,right, it's like your time to
color, it's your time to play.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
When you look back at the human existence, at some
point all these black screensthat we stare at disappear, all
of these things that we'vecreated disappear and it just
comes down to, I mean, thehieroglyphics we see on walls
and all of the like, the again,like the artifacts that you see
in a museum like this is whatthey did.
They built to try to explainthemselves, to understand their
world, to understand, like, tobring their community together.
Yeah, and so the again the morethat we can create, the the
more we're more groundedourselves, because we weren't,
(37:39):
we didn't come from the oceansas reptiles to evolve into what
we are.
To just put out a marketingreport at the end of the month
to show how everything went,which not saying it's all bad
but we need to lean into thatmore.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
I agree, and human beings are fascinating, but
they're also very complex, right?
So it's like a way of unpackingyourself a little bit when you
get creative, because even ifyou don't fully understand
everything, you at least maybeunderstand one aspect that you
didn't before.
Yeah, that can be huge, totally.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Heaven forbid.
We make our lives a little bitbetter by learning more about
ourselves and how we like toenjoy it better, crazy, but I
want to hear about the museumand the plans that we have.
So it sounds like you've broughton a lot of great corporate
sponsors that have helped notonly just increase the inclusive
.
Inclusive, I almost saidexclusivity.
We've got to make this thing asexclusive as possible.
Incre said exclusivity.
We've got to make this thing asexclusive as possible.
Increase the inclusivity, bringin more people.
(38:29):
But tell me about, like theseupcoming exhibits, things that
you've been working on and someof these sponsors.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Yeah, so it's been very exciting.
I like the, I like theuniqueness of the exhibits we're
bringing in.
So the dinosaur exhibit washuge because we were able to
bring in hands-on learning forkids.
You know, actually holding likeauthentic.
The Utah Raptor that we have wascreated by Robert Gaston, who's
one of the paleontologists thatfounded it, and we were talking
(38:55):
about Smiley City earlier,actually randomly bumped into
somebody who used to work in amuseum.
That actually knew him also andit's like again, you know, it's
just complete, completelyinteresting.
But long story short, so we hada first round where, when we
first built it, we had a mannamed Joe DeBalco who is pretty
big in a paleontology societyand he had been collecting since
(39:17):
he was five years old andthat's how I found him and my
dream was to have real fossilsintegrated into this exhibit and
I didn't know if that waspossible.
A lot of children's museumscan't make that happen and his
dream was to one day put hisfossils in a museum.
So when we met it was like, ohmy gosh, this is meant to happen
.
And I got to know his wholefamily and they're totally
(39:39):
lovely.
And then, sadly, about a yearand a half ago, joe passed away
and it was really hard becausehe had given this beautiful
collection.
He was like our best, mostprominent, beloved volunteer
because he would work with thekids and you know he would ask,
he would sit in the in theexhibit on Saturdays and just
show the kids fossils and talkto them about it and he just
(40:02):
really loved his.
You know what he did and andbringing that to children and
making it, making them curiousand, um, and then he passed away
and it was really hard.
You know we we really mournedthat loss as a museum and also
just him as a person, beautifulhuman being.
But I got to know his, hiswidow, susie, and she was so
kind.
She gave us additional fossilsafter after his passing, um, and
(40:29):
so what we did was we did areally nice tribute to him and
we added some new new thingslike a Terradon and, um, some
new fossils and minerals thatwere on display and we had a
tribute to him last year.
So if you have been there butyou haven't been back, there's
some really cool new stuff tosee and touch.
Um.
And then we just added thetrain exhibit, which is
outrageous.
It's 3000 square feet ofterrain, 1200 square feet a
track.
Um, there's a uh, real Thomasthe tank engine kid is oh, come
(40:53):
on, yeah, I'm singing.
I'm singing to the choir, asthey say so.
But, um, it's really coolbecause there's like this
nightfall experience.
It happens real fast, but it'slike the sun comes up, the sun
goes down and it gets real darkand pretty.
Then all the streetlights comeon and the little lights on the
cars and stuff and it's magical.
I mean honestly, and you know,there's something like nostalgic
(41:13):
about trains and just kind oflike romantic.
I don't know like everybodyfalls in love with it.
And then every time I go upthere and I mean obviously I
work there, so I go all the time, but I always see some other
new little vignette or somethingI didn't notice.
And there's like these littlerock climber guys on the way out
.
They're like my absolutefavorite.
So I don't know it's reallyeasy to get lost and fall in
love with the exhibit and thework and the artistry that's
(41:34):
gone into it.
And we were so lucky and we hada couple that reached out to us
on Instagram, if you canbelieve that, and they said, hey
, we got a model train, do youwant it?
We're picturing like a box, andthen they send us pictures and
they're like no, you would haveto have it shipped.
It turns out the the trainitself is worth two and a half
million dollars and to ship itand build it was like another
(41:54):
million wow and they coveredeverything.
They brought in their own trainexperts to lay it out, and build
it and paint it, and you knowand and take care of it.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
So we're we're really , really fortunate on that love
that Like there's so manypassionate people across the the
journey.
That's like I mean.
He doesn't have to like theRaptor guy.
He doesn't have to sit thereevery Saturday and explain
things.
He can do whatever he wants to,but I know he's passionate and
it's like that each one teachone mentality.
Yeah, Like.
Let me tell you about the firsttime I dug one of these up and
the kids like what do you mean?
Speaker 1 (42:23):
He's like well, let me tell you.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
And then there's people like they could sell
trains, they could do whatever,but be like no, I actually do
want kids to feel the joy ofthis, Like I felt once upon a
time.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Absolutely.
You're so right about that.
That's one of the fun thingsabout being in the space is that
you're right.
You meet these passionatepeople that just really care
about their particular area andthey want to share it.
And it's like, how is that so?
And then our one that we'reopening um this weekend.
Um, it was, as we mentioned, uma season.
We're, we have a um a truck andwe have an amazing um museum
(42:52):
fabricator.
This is kind of our behind thescenes at a children's museum.
He's incredible.
He used to work at hell theater.
He's an artist.
He does stained glass.
He's just, he can weld.
He does everything really nicemild manner guy.
Um, anyway, he, he made thistruck like.
He welded it in our shop in themuseum and it's a seven by 14
(43:13):
child-sized tractor trailer.
But that's a pretty big truck,yeah, especially to be like,
give me a month, I'll figurethis out.
I got this, yeah, and so he yeah, he made it and it's beautiful.
And there's a lot of you know,cause and effect, a lot of
buttons and switches and funthings.
And then we have this reallycool sorting um, the sorting uh
thing that you can do in theback where, like you're actually
(43:33):
like in a in a stock room andyou're matching you know, for
kids they love it matching colorand looking at the different
attributes of the vegetables anddeciding where they go, and
it's just, it's just going to beso much fun.
So we opened that this Saturday, which I'm excited about.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
That's exciting.
I got to go find one of mynieces and nephews.
Please, I don't want to getlooked at too weird, come with
me.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
I always say this, and I'm actually not joking we
actually won't let an adult inby themselves, so you actually
need a child.
Yes, yeah, so, and then down thepike, not too far down the pike
, uta has sponsored an exhibitand we're actually going to
Matt's at it again.
He's going to build a bus forthe kids to play on, and we have
(44:15):
a brilliant designer.
He's a consultant for us, hisname is Norm Judd and he's
worked in museum spaces and hiswork is impeccable and he's such
a joy to work for.
So he has it all laid out andnow Matt just has to build it.
And then after that we'reopening Intermountain Healthcare
Exhibit and that's going to belike what a lot of science
museums have, where they havethe big bubbles that kids can
play with parents and kids.
That's like a crowd pleaser.
(44:36):
And then there's thisprojection mapping kind of dance
studio where, like, the floorand the wall will like mirror
their movements with music andthe concept behind that exhibit,
which I'm very excited about.
Intermountain Healthcare hasbeen a long-term supporter of
the Children's Museum, but theywanted to get away from a more
literal interpretation.
They used to have like anemergency room that the kids
(44:57):
really thought was cool andeverything, but their new
branding is this dudes, wherethey're looking at the emotional
wellbeing of children, and sothe exhibit is all about, you
know, trying to create thatengagement with their emotions
and playfulness and also beingable to identify how they're
feeling.
So there's also going to bethis really cool maze where kids
and parents can work togetherand children can determine how
they're feeling that day andmimic, like their parents,
(45:19):
expressions through thesemirrors and these windows and
put different lights onthemselves.
So they can, you know, thinkabout like what if I'm angry Is
that red, you know start tostart to be more cognizant of
how they feel and then also talkabout it.
And um, and it's just been anamazing partnership.
We worked with one of theirchild psychologists to come up
with some of the concepts andI'm just so impressed with how
(45:39):
our teams have just workedtogether to create this really
unique experience.
And we will we will be workingon that after UTA.
So that's, that's already on thepipeline and that's so many
great things back to back, toback, I know, right, and this is
all like on the third floor, soif you haven't been up there,
you need to go upstairs.
A lot of people don't get offthe first floor because the kids
are having so much fun.
But, and then the, the big, thebiggie that we're still
(46:00):
fundraising for and we we have.
We have reached quite a bit ofour goal, but we're actually
going to put in the largestchildren's rooftop garden in the
country on our rooftop, yeah,and it's going to have a?
Um a big greenhouse, so it'd beyear round for the kids and
we're going to teach all about,you know, food and plants and um
pollinators and there's goingto be a water feature.
It's going to be reallybeautiful and soothing for kids
(46:23):
and families, but they're alsogoing to learn a lot.
And then at night we're goingto turn it into a great rental
space and we're going to getthat earned revenue.
So we can keep helping all thesekids.
It's like, what a spy hop didthere you go, there you go, yeah
, and it's going to bebeautifully lit and there's
going to be a water feature, andso you can rent it out for
weddings and banquets and allkinds of fun things, so at night
.
So it's like it's a, it's a,it's a win-win.
(46:44):
So, yeah, so that'll be our,our last project, and then the
entire museum will be renovated.
So we're going to have to startcircling back through, I guess,
and find some refresh for us.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
Yeah Well, kathleen, I always ask every guest two
questions before we end.
Number one if you could havesomeone on the small Lake city
podcast and hear more abouttheir story, what they're up to.
Who do you want to hear from?
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Wow, that's a great question.
I got to think about that one.
You know somebody that I know,that I'm I know very well
professionally has been a reallybig and early supporter of our
museum.
But I would be curious to seehim on the on the podcast,
because he's done so much forhis community And's so quiet
about it is Jeff Miller fromMark Miller Subaru.
(47:29):
He has helped so manyorganizations and he just does
it with this just really gentlespirit and is just there for the
community and I think he wouldbe a really interesting guest,
Totally and like I don't know ifit's the same, because I
haven't gotten to knowcommunities quite like this in
other places, but like theautomotive carhip community in
utah is a very big one.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
It is, I mean, every name, from, I mean, larry h
miller to the strongs, to thedally, to like I can go down the
list, yeah, and, but the onethat I feel like is the most
interactive with the communitycares gives back is to the brew
yeah, I agree, I.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
I mean, I've been very impressed.
He helps so many organizationsand he's just so generous and
yet just so nonchalant about it.
You know what I mean?
Just not looking for thefanfare, so he might not be
willing to talk about all hedoes, but he would be an
interesting guest.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
I've cracked a couple nuts before.
I'm sure you have.
I'm sure you were the amount ofpeople that's like.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
I don't know if this is going to be good, or I don't
know if I'm going to like thisand by the end they're like all
right, fine, I had a good time.
Yeah, you kind of make it fun.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
I hope so.
Yeah, you do Imagine coming inso excited and then leaving just
like I don't like this, thisisn't fun.
And then, lastly, if best placeto find information, yeah,
check us out atdiscoverygatewayorg.
Cool, yeah, awesome.
So go check it out.
If you're like me and youremember the old Children's
(48:56):
Museum on Beck Street and nowyou have your own kids that you
want to go have a sharedexperience with, get into that
childlike state of play, gocheck it out.
And if you want to loan me yourchild so I can go, I won't say
no.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
Your child, so I can go.
I wouldn't, I won't say no butno, kathy, it's been.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
It's been amazing.
Thank you so much for coming on.
I'm excited to see the fulldone museum.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
I'm taking my niece and nephew and we're gonna have
a day with it.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
Thank you so much for having me Thank you.
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