S1, E88: Disruptive Advertising/ Authenticity Wins - Jacob Baadsgaard

What happens when you confront your deepest fears and step into authentic living? Jacob Baadsgaard's journey reveals the transformative power of radical self-honesty.

After building a successful marketing agency, Jacob found himself questioning everything when his marriage began failing. Through therapy, he discovered he wasn't showing up as a true partner because of his own self-judgment and inability to be present. This revelation sparked a profound personal transformation that not only saved his marriage but completely changed his approach to business and life.

Jacob shares how his realization that "it's not an adventure until you don't know what's next" became his guiding philosophy. His fourth child, born after reconciling with his wife, stands as a daily reminder of the beautiful possibilities waiting on the other side of fear. This experience taught him that life's richest rewards often come from embracing uncertainty rather than avoiding it.

We explore the fascinating phenomenon of midlife crises happening earlier than ever – now striking people in their 20s and 30s who've followed all the prescribed steps but still feel empty. Jacob explains how authentic living requires distinguishing between the stories we tell ourselves and the truth of who we are. His upcoming book "Authenticity Wins" distills years of personal growth into practical wisdom for others facing similar challenges.

The conversation dives deep into the paradox of being versus doing, the importance of present-moment awareness, and the fundamental questions that changed everything for Jacob: "Do I believe I'm enough to deal with whatever life brings? And do I believe everyone else is enough too?"

Whether you're struggling with relationships, questioning your career path, or simply feeling stuck, this episode offers powerful insights on finding your authentic self and embracing life's adventures with an open heart.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
And now I feel like people are hitting midlife
crises in like their 20s and 30s, yes, and the mind can't
predict what's on the other sideof that big feeling.
The thing that I always say isit's not an adventure until you
don't know what's next, becauseuntil your mind can't anticipate
what's next, are you reallyliving?
My wife and I were reallystruggling in our marriage,
assumed it was kind of to thepoint where we kind of assumed
it wasn't going to work out.

(00:21):
You know of assumed it wasn'tgoing to work out.
We started with marriagecounseling.
That ultimately led to myrealization of I'm not showing
up like a partner in thisrelationship.
And I'm not showing up as apartner because I have a lot of
self-judgment and things I'mstruggling with.
Where I challenge myself andall of us, is do I believe I'm
enough to deal with whateverlife brings?
And I think the answer is I am.
And the next question is do Ibelieve everyone else is enough?

Speaker 2 (00:49):
What is up everybody and welcome back to another
episode of the Small Lake CityPodcast.
I'm your host, eric Nilsen, andthis week's guest is, honestly,
someone who caught mecompletely off guard in the best
way possible.
Now, jacob Badsguard is someonewho's had a very successful
career working in marketing incorporate America, taking a risk
and starting his own marketingagency called Disruptive
Advertising.
But life has a way of throwingcurveballs at you to teach the
lesson that you need to learnthe most Now with Jacob, his

(01:10):
marriage was being tested, hisbusiness was being tested and he
was being tested to the pointwhere he realized he wasn't
being his authentic self.
He wasn't being present in themoment and it got in the way of
a lot of his relationships.
Now, after therapy, a lot ofself-discovery it has completely
changed his life, the way hethinks about all of his
relationships, and has alsoturned around and written his

(01:32):
own book called AuthenticityWins, where he talks about a lot
of these key themes and topics.
I had an amazing conversationwith him.
I hope you all enjoy this one.
It's a lot of vulnerabilityfrom both of us in talking about
all of the trials that we'vegone through and the lessons
that we've been able to learnthrough it all, so I'll let you
listen from here.
It's a great episode, but I'llsee you on the other side and

(01:52):
hope that you enjoy it as muchas I did.
There we go.
When I first started, I waspretty hyper-conscious about
like.
I mean especially like I boughtall the hardware and everything.
I was like I got to get thebest everything.
I've got to do this.
But now, like if I were to gospend $1,000 on microphones and
headphones and everything, I'mstill running it through the
same AI audio regulator thatcomes out the exact same and so

(02:16):
like not the place I would spendmoney on.
And so people always talk to meit's funny when you have a
podcast because people be likeoh, there's idea for a podcast.
I'm like, tell me about it.
Um, it'll be like I think Ilike what should?
What do you think I should get?
What do you think I should do?

Speaker 1 (02:30):
I'm like keep it simple, keep it simple like you
don't need to over complicatethis.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
No, like it's not that complicated.
Like even one of my friendsnamed johnny dinkle.
He owns a company called launchpod media it's like podcast
services and I got introduced tohim because he guest wrote on a
newsletter that my other frienddoes and the thing was titled
like your mic's good enough andbeing like listen, if you're so
worried about all the hardwareand like all of this, you're not

(02:56):
focusing enough on like whatyour actual core product is, who
your customer is, what yourniche is, what I mean, what I
mean the product is itself.
Yeah, and so so many people belike oh, I was looking at this
mic.
Is this mic better than thatmic?
I'm like, if you want to burnmoney, sure get that one.
If not, like there's peoplethat record it on apple airpods
and it works fine.
And people record over zoom ontheir macbook speaker and mic

(03:16):
like it's fine.
Yeah, but I mean most peopleyeah, I mean most people like
start to complicate thingsbefore it ever needs to get
complicated.
That's like just get started.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
You'll.
You'll learn what matters.
It's just a protectionmechanism to not act.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Oh yeah, yeah, and that's it was like me to a T and
like something I'm stillworking on is I've always been
that like over thinker andthere's a point in my life like
I'm the thinker person, Likethat's where I add value.
And and then years into mycareer I was like nobody cares
about how much you think aboutsomething, they only care if you
do something.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
So everyone's on a journey and we slowly get there,
little by little.
Also, how do you pronounce yourlast name?
Give it a shot.
I'm going to have to look at myphone, it's just Badzgard.
Badzgard.
Okay, there's a lot of A's.

(04:07):
That intimidates people butthere's no other way to stop.
There was an en at the end likewas bad's garden.
All right, that makes a lotmore sense if you want to say
that I'd be okay with it you'relike, I won't stop you.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah, I'm grateful that jacob of bad's guard, jacob
, there we go anyway.
Where's the?
It's danish, danish, okay, yeahbecause I'm a swede okay so and
it's.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
I was talking to someone about this because, like
I mean one thing that I thinkabout Salt Lake and Utah in
general.
It's like a pretty culturalistplace and then you look at
people's last names and there'sa lot of sins and sons, and I
mean just a lot of Scandinavianpeople in general.
But I was talking to a friendwho's from Sweden and she's like
, oh, like where's like theSwedes?
Like I know there's a lot ofSwedes here, like how do I find
them?

(04:45):
I'm swedes, we're just kind ofborn from there.
We're not really likeculturally relevant from there.
Right, I don't really eat thatmuch fish, or not?
Blonde and blue-eyed, but herewe are, yeah, so, but the greeks
, the greeks have held ittogether on the cultural side,
but I could talk about that allday, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
So when you say culturalist, what does that mean
?

Speaker 2 (04:58):
um, I mean, it's no secret that utah is pretty
monocultural in general, justbecause of its roots and
predominant population, and Imean part of that organization's
teaching is like one-ish way,one way to go about things, and
so whenever there is like onepath and everybody kind of molds
to that path and kind of gets,a word for being on it.

(05:20):
but there's been also, like Imean just in general in the
world and it's kind of cascadedinto Salt Lake right now where
people do want more community,and community is a buzzword that
a lot of people don't know whatthey mean by it but and a lot
of that can be cultural,relevant and like one thing I've
seen is like there's been thisemergence of more people that

(05:40):
want like an Italian experience,like there's like one or two
italian festivals that havepopped up, yeah, and just people
doing that, which I'm gratefulfor.
Like I would never like be ableto say anything about the
stereotypical new jersey or likenew york or philly italian.
I'm like I don't have any ofthose friends um, never
experienced until I went tothose places.
But I think there's slowlythese kind of cultures popping

(06:00):
up and I'm all for it and thinkthe more that we can kind of get
that culture back and getpeople together, then I'm all in
.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
Well, I think it's um when we think of there's like
conformity, and I think that'smore of what you're describing
of subgroup yes right and andthat that goes back to even like
childhood friends.
There's like this draw to likefit in yes and to be like other
people, and what I hear youdescribing from a community

(06:28):
standpoint is what makes usunique, is what makes a more
enhanced and collectivecommunity when we celebrate each
other's differences, not try toget each other to be like each
other.
Yeah, yeah, and so which is?

Speaker 2 (06:41):
such like a secondary way of thinking, because I mean
you look at like the I.
I don't want to say mentallyweak, but maybe like the
mentally less conscious ormature.
It's like, oh, like, what'syour validation of me?
Like, what do you think of me?
me happy, Like what do I want todo?
And I think that that thencreates a lot of decisions and
like well, who do I want tospend time with?

(07:06):
What are the activities I wantto do?
What people bring together?
You know, I was talking tosomeone earlier this week about
like just run clubs.
Like run clubs have popped upeverywhere because it's people
being like oh, I want to meetpeople.
Here's this thing that I liketo do.
So if I can find other peoplethat like to do that, let's get

(07:29):
people together.
And that's just like oneexample of so I mean dinner
clubs and like I've just heardso many different things that
bring people together.
And the more that people bringtogether based on aligned
hobbies, values, interests,activities.
I don't know if I'm more thanfine with that yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
So I think that's where, when it stays as an
invite, um, versus feelingcompelled to conform to the
group, right, like it wouldn'tmake sense to go hang out with a
running club if you aren'tgoing to run, yeah, and to show
up and say everyone else needsto not be a runner.
For me to feel comfortable inthis group would be like weird.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, but it would also be Can we walk today?

Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah so it's always kind of interesting
finding that balance because weappreciate and value like
commonalities, but then everyrunner is a little different and
brings a different lifeexperience and different things
as well, and so I don't know.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
I just think the idea of community as a melding of
uniqueness rather thanconformity is, I think, what
contributes to those kinds ofenvironments don't know your
audience, if you don't know yourcustomer, if you don't know
your icp, if you don't knowwhere they are, where they're
spending time or want tointeract with totally, um, an ad

(08:34):
or whatever it might be, thenyou probably don't know it well
enough, which could then I meanin the parallel of yourself, and
you don't know yourself wellenough.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
So spend some time thinking and go from there well,
that's my, because my world hasbeen marketers and
entrepreneurship for so long andthe marketers and entrepreneurs
that I see being highlysuccessful.
There's two steps that theyhave to cross.
The first one is developingself-clarity and confidence, and
I think that's just a maturingprocess, that you grow up and I

(09:18):
see the world one way because ofhow I was raised, and then you
take that into the world on yourown and see how does this work
outside of my family, outside ofmy known friend groups, outside
of my known community?
And that's where that narrativethat we tell ourselves of like,
okay, this is what life'ssupposed to be and how I'm
supposed to be in it, well, it'sinteresting to see how life

(09:39):
responds to that.
Um, whether that's in collegeor in getting married or your
new friend circles, or at schoolor at work or in starting a
business.
And you start to identify like,what are the parts that, like
army versus the learned culturalthings or the nurtured things
that I'm bringing with me?
And I think one of the funniestones is just like Santa Claus,

(10:01):
like we we we grew up thinkingSanta Claus is real and it makes
, it makes Christmas time fun,and then you realize, oh, it's
just a story and he's not real.
Sorry if I'm blowing anyone'smind right now, but it's like oh
well, what?
What is it that I love aboutChristmas?
I love the generosity, I lovecoming together, I love good

(10:21):
food, I love family.
You're like oh, that's what Iwas connecting with and the
story that I was telling myselfabout.
It is now evolving in.
Why I appreciate this time ofyear and I feel like that's part
of adult development is thestories that we told ourselves
inevitably are just stories andthey will be confronted and they
will be torn down.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
And that's the good news, right confronted, and they
will be torn down.
Yeah, and that's the good,that's the good news, right,
that's what keeps us open to anew experience, new
relationships, because whatcaused me to marry my wife in
the first place is not whatkeeps me choosing her today.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
Right, that evolves and thank goodness it does Um.
Same with my kids, same with mybusiness, same with marketing.
And I think on the journey of amarketer they have to kind of
figure those things out.
And in my marketing career Iended up marketing for a lot of
things that I didn't believe in,but I was so hungry to do it,
to just get the experience of itright to.
What did I like, what did Ivalue, what was the unique skill

(11:18):
set that I was bringing?
Because I didn't really knowyet.
And it's through experience,experiential living, that you
learn those things.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Otherwise it's just a hypothesis.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
Right, um, and all of a sudden you start to
understand well, what.
What are my core motivations?
What are the strengths that Ibring to the table that allow me
to serve other people?
What are the weaknesses that Ibring to the table that I can
ask for help with and allowothers to serve me?
What are my values that drivemy beliefs and decision-making?
Um, I love the inefficienciesthat I think marketers and

(11:47):
entrepreneurs are like.
The are like the liver ofcapitalism, that we spot
inefficiencies in themarketplace and then we solve
those inefficiencies with,create creative marketing and
businesses that solve thoseinefficiencies, and when we do
it in a way where it actuallyhelps the target customer, it
actually gives them value.
That's of a positive impact forthem.

(12:07):
It's like that's all of asudden when I feel like there's
um.
Identity is maybe not the rightword, but it's like I'm living
more in my authenticity.
I understand who I am, who I'mnot.
Um, I I have conviction in myvalues for how I show up and I
seek to serve and add value.
And all of a sudden, it's likeopportunities just start showing

(12:30):
up to take advantage of,whether as a marketer or as an
entrepreneur, and where I see alot of them get stuck and I just
see too many not make this leapand I and I feel some passion
about this is which is why Ideveloped disruptive university
is um, making that leap fromtrying to be what everyone else
expects me to be and conform tothe community, like we were

(12:53):
talking about earlier, to goingthrough the fire of fear of what
if I show up more as mevulnerable and my weaknesses
showing up in my strengths,living these things, and when an
individual make crosses thatbridge, it's pretty powerful and
it is.
Every person has somethingunique to offer this world and

(13:13):
when they start to lean intothat, it's beautiful because no
one else can do it.
No, yeah, and basic economicsare like supply and demand.
If you're unique, you are theonly one that sees the world the
way you see it, and and if youdon't show up as you, you are
robbing the world of the onlyperson that can serve it and see
it the way that you do.
And it's the same thing withbusiness.
I see a lot of entrepreneurs weget caught up in what is what

(13:36):
should the product be?
What should the service be?
Versus like, what makes usunique?
Cause if we're not unique, it'shard to market.
And now you're just one of many, and that's not fun.
Running a business where you'rejust one of many, you want to
kind of have some haters.
You want to have some peoplethat are diehard, like cause it
actually shows that you'redifferentiated and unique and
not trying to get everyone toconform to what you have as well

(13:59):
, and so I love.
I love how you let in withcommunity.
I think that exists at theindividual level and at the
collective level, and I alwaysfeel inspired when people have
the confidence to be authenticand to be unique and to just
step into that.
It's like a really cooltransition that happens for a

(14:19):
lot of people.
I feel like that used to happen.
This is like total uh, maybenot data or research, but I just
have noticed that the oldergenerations I feel like we're
hitting that in their midlifecrisis and like they're like 50
yeah and then I feel like itturned into 40 and now I.
Now I feel like people arehitting midlife crisis.
Isn't like their 20s and 30s.

(14:40):
Yes, because they're exposed toso much experience and
information that priorgenerations it took decades to
be exposed to that much.
And now, all of a sudden, we'vegot people in their twenties
and thirties like already havingkind of this existential.
Are the stories I'm tellingmyself even valid and true, and
do I have the courage to stepinto what makes me more
authentic and unique?

Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
And so I just feel like it's happening younger and
younger, and to me that'sexciting.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
Oh, totally.
And it's like it dictates theright person for that to be
exciting for because there'ssome people who could look at
this their entire world'scrumbling around and be like who
am I, what do I do?
I've been living a lie.
I don't even know what I amanymore.
But then there's what's liketime to finally wake up and be
myself.
And I was actually at it I meanrecorded earlier this week with
someone who said the same thinglike our midlife crisis crises

(15:26):
used to have in our late fortiesand fifties, and now it's so
much earlier and that's I meancause I'm 34 and that's the
conversation I have with prettymuch I mean so many people right
now, but I'd say plus or minusfive years from my age sees
people coming being like listen,I did what everybody told me to
do.
I went to school, I took thejob, I got the promotion, I
married the girl, I had the kids, but I don't like the like, I'm

(15:49):
not happy and I don't know why,and I don't even know who I am.
It's like that can either be asuper again, like dark, like
detrimental, pessimistic, or youcan look at it as this way to
like find who you truly are,because that's been one thing
that I've, I mean, gotten aheadof with, like the podcast, like
I would never look at him and belike, hey, the way to find
yourself is to broadcast youweekly for multiple hours and

(16:11):
have a hundred plus hours onYouTube of you talking to people
.
But it's been fun to be where.
Now I am in my life is like Ionly have one person, like I am
me, in my life.
Now I don't have my familyversion of me, I don't have my
friend version of me, I don'thave my family version of me, I
don't have my friend version ofme.
I don't have the work versionof me.
I'm just me and if you take it,great, if not, I know people
well and to your point of it issuch a unique asset that.

(16:32):
But once you realize that andrealize those strengths, values,
motivations, values, then youstart to live them.
The more you live them, you getbetter at them, because it's
what you're meant to do.
And the more that you spendtime on things that you like and
time on anything in general,you get better at it.
And then the more that you canrealize that, set those
boundaries, realize who you areand who you aren't, then the
right people start to come in,then the right opportunities

(16:53):
come in, and, all of a sudden,you create this fly wheel that
you've done yourself with yourown personal, authentic self.
that then will, in turn, createthe life that you're always
meant to have, because you'refinally living your truth yeah
and so it's, but it's daunting,like I have friends right now
and but again, it takes peopleto have this leap of faith when
it's easy to do what you've done, stay on the path, do whatever,
and, like I actually recordedwith earlier this week, I mean

(17:16):
he said like, yeah, you can havea great career and listen to
how everybody did have followedthe path, but if you don't have
a great life, sometimes you haveto listen to no one and I'm
like, yeah, it's scary, but thereward is there.
It just takes a little bit oftrust.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
Well, what I've found ?
We have these transition points, and sometimes I have found
that I can convince myself thatI'm being authentic when I'm not
.
And there's a couple of thingsthat I've started learning to
notice, and the first one isjudgment right.

(17:49):
So these moments of awarenesswhere it's like, oh, this isn't
the way I thought it was themind, which is an anticipation
machine and wants to keep ussafe and comfortable,
immediately wants to come upwith a narrative to keep us, to
protect us cognitive dissonance,uh-huh and so what I've noticed
is that it starts to judge theway that I did.

(18:10):
It was wrong.
I can't believe you've beendoing it this way the whole time
yeah right, I'll keep using the.
I can't believe you thoughtsanta claus was real.
That's so silly, right?
Um?
To me, authenticity is sayingI'm now aware of something new,
and the only thing I'm aware ofis that it would no longer be
authentic to do it the way I wasdoing it.

(18:31):
I don't have to judge it, Idon't have to demonize it, I
don't have to cling to it if Iloved what it was, cause
sometimes it's hard to let go,sometimes we want to push it
away cause it feels icky or hard.
Um, but what I?
What I'm learning is that when Ifind my mind judging that I've
been doing it wrong, it'sactually that's not true.

(18:51):
It's just saying I am now awarethat, moving forward, it
wouldn't feel good to do it thatway and now I can just do it
that way moving forward.
Where I see a lot of people getstuck is they judged that they
did it the wrong way and thenthey want to convince everyone
else that's doing it that way,that they're now doing it wrong
as well, versus saying I'm justaware that for me, that wouldn't
be the right way to do itanymore.

(19:12):
And a silly example that I liketo share is I have three
daughters and a son, and myson's the youngest and it wasn't
until my fourth child that mywife noticed I was doing a
conditioner and then shampoo.
Okay, I'm in my mid thirties, afourth child, the boy come
through three girls of bath time, right, and she's like what are

(19:32):
you doing?
And I'm like I'm, I'm bathingyour son, you're welcome.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
And she's like no, no , no, no, no, like, or you'll
just wash out all theconditioner and I'm like, are
you serious?
You're still kind of dumb inthose moments and so I could sit
there and beat myself up orshame everyone else that does it
the same way too, right?
Or just say like I'm so gladthat I know that now and I can

(19:59):
have a good little laugh thatthat's what made I'm just like a
three in one guy.
You know what I mean.
Like I've always had short hair.
I didn't know, but now I know.
And that would be weird to keepdoing it that way, moving
forward, and whether that's withone's religion and spiritual
convictions, whether that's withsomeone's career and
professional ambitions, whetherthat's in a relationship, we

(20:20):
arrive at these moments where wesay you know, I was in
corporate America and I actuallylearned a lot from that
experience when I was atOmniture and Adobe and the time
came where I knew that wasn'tfor me anymore.
That doesn't mean I did itwrong or the people that are in
corporate America are doing itwrong.
It just meant I realized it wastime for me to move on Right,
or in a relationship or, like Isaid, with spiritual, spiritual

(20:43):
and religious convictions, Ifeel like a lot of people.
Oh, I now see that there's amore authentic way for me to
move forward, and once I findthat I'm judging it or needing
to justify it to everyone else,I haven't yet accepted what I
learned from doing it that way.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah no, I like that because so many people it's kind
of in the.
The rudimentary way of thinkingit historically is just so
binary good, bad, black, white,up down.
And in reality it's like I mean, let's use, uh, santa claus in
his example.
It's like, okay, like I canrespect that's what I knew with
what I had access to at the time.
It doesn't mean everythingabout it was bad.

(21:18):
Like they still have a lot ofgreat family memories and elf on
the shelf and advent, kind oflike all these things.
But then, uh, like another, likestepping back and saying like,
well, why does this matter to me?
Why would I want to keep doingthis?
Is finding out the santa clausisn't real make me want to just
burn it all to the ground andnever do it again?
Or is it like, oh, but this isalso a time where I can be
grateful for things.
This is a time where I canspend time with family.
It's a time I can showappreciation towards friends and

(21:40):
like get into, like the real,why behind it?
Because, again, like if you aregoing along with something for
the sake of going along withsomething, and like because I'm
someone who, if I'm doingsomething, I like to be able to
say this is why I'm doingsomething, if I'm spending time
with someone.
This is why I like to spendtime with someone and not put so
much of my life on autopilot,because we live in this world
where it's like oh hey, here I'm, spotify here, listen to this.

(22:01):
Here is Instagram, follow thishere.
Gps, do this.
And the more that you can kindof like zoom out, like those
tools are all great and havehelped in so many ways, but the
more that you can intentionallybe like no, no, no, this is I
want to spend time with thesepeople, I want to spend my time
doing this.
I want to spend my time or Iwant to have access to this or
this.
Cut that out a little bit more.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
And what if?
Are you open to beingchallenged on that a little bit,
Of course?
What if it's just fullyengaging with the moment in
front of you?

Speaker 2 (22:28):
And that's the biggest, then that is the most
important part of it all,because if you can't be present
in a moment, then you're notactually in that moment, nor do
you actually want to be in thatmoment.
Because the more that you focusahead and worry about that,
that's anxiety.
The more you think about thepast and resent or beat yourself
about that, that's depression.
But the more that you can befocused in the moment, then you
don't worry about any, which areneither real.

(22:51):
And the more that you can be inthe moment.
That's the only thing that'sreally happening.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
Because I find that my mind does a lot of the same
things where it's likeconstantly evaluating,
constantly anticipating, and doI like this?
Am I showing up, kind of justfalling out of the present
moment and overintellectualizing everything?
And that doesn't mean thatthere's not a time and place to

(23:16):
plan, to schedule, to do thosetypes of things, but I've found
that more often than not mythoughts are actually just
pulling me away from the momentthat I'm in, rather than just
going to be here now and I'minterested what life brings me
next and then I'll be with thattoo.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
Yeah totally no.
I could talk about this all day.
This is like where my brain goesA lot of the time.
My therapist once upon a timetold me, um, intimidatingly
introspective, uh, cause I thinka lot about thinking like there
was.
It reminded me of a momentwhere I mean it was when, like
my childhood home, which wemoved out of when I was 10, so I
had to been somewhere between,like maybe like six and eight we
were going through this cabinetthat had all of our like school

(23:57):
projects that we had, I mean,in elementary school, and I
pulled one out and I'll neverforget it, because it was this
uh, it was a picture of like aperson with a brain and I had it
broken up.
It's like, oh, put what thethings you think about are, and
on mine, one of them wasbreathing.
And the teachers know, justlike question mark, like what do
you mean breathing?
I'm like, yeah, just sometimes Ijust sit there and think about

(24:17):
how I like constantly justinhale and exhale, and if I
think about it then I have tolike consciously think about it,
but if I'm thinking aboutsomething else, then I just am
going about my day and I waslike yeah, you were that kid,
but it's but the more that youcan at least pull yourself and
separate that like me versus Iand be present like this that's
because, again, so many peopleare so focused on other things

(24:38):
they can't enjoy whatever's infront of them, no matter what it
is.
They could be at Disneylandwith the kids, or, and they're
still just their mind somewhereelse.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
So how do you, how have you found that you can get
out of your head and back intoyour heart?

Speaker 2 (24:59):
What are?
What are things that you'venoticed that maybe help you get
out of those thought spirals?
Um, I mean, I'm someone whogenerally has above average
anxiety than most, and a healthydose of ADHD.
And so I've realized like I havecertain things in my life that
I have to do on a regular basisis like just like my own
maintenance in life, like I goto the gym every morning, I know
that's part of what I have todo and if I don't do it enough,
then my brain starts to notworking as well as it used to.
I've learned that because of somuch of my life is so pragmatic

(25:20):
, numerical, measurable, that,like painting, is something I've
done in the last two and a halfyears, that was completely.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
What types of painting have you experimented?

Speaker 2 (25:27):
I mean painting.
I usually gravitate towardslike landscape and flowers
specifically, but uh, that'sbeen a fun one and also like a
thing that's challenged myself,because, like I mean again, like
if I go talk to general peoplelike, oh, I'm not creative, I'm
not artistic, I'm like, yeah,because that was in like a
elementary school or middleschool class, the story you were
telling yourself exactly, andso as soon as I got to a point
in life I'm like I'm going tochallenge the things that I

(25:49):
think I am, and there were somesome like nope, I'm right, that
is definitely me.
But I'm like actually I am moreof this person, and which again
helped me find out who I am andwhat my strengths are, what my
weaknesses are and like settleinto myself and also realize how
much social time I need to have, because I have an extroverted
person and I need to be aroundmy people and have the right
people to talk to about things,and that usually sets me up for
the right success.

(26:10):
But then also just realizing,kind of the signs of like oh,
there's something you need toprocess a little better, there's
a feeling that you reallyhaven't like felt or really, um,
uh, fleshed out completely,because so many people I mean
the things that we use to maskare the things that are usually
keeping us from things we don'twant to face.
I mean that's why people, Imean that's why drug and alcohol

(26:30):
addiction is soific, but thenalso people that just can't have
a moment of silence alone.
They always have to have anAirPod, listening to a song,
watching a show or something.
It's like hey, if I turn thatoff right now and just put you
in a room, what happens?
Like, oh, I could never, thatcould never be a load of my
thoughts.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
I'm like, maybe think about that're all like a mind,
body, spirit complex.
I think we can all agree thatthere's thoughts happening, that
there's a body and that there'ssomething that's observing both
of those going on.
Whatever you ascribe that to,whatever Right, um, but I feel
like it's uh, we go and hide inthe mind and, uh, life is to be

(27:11):
experienced and I think the mindis an awesome sidekick but a
pretty poor driver, master.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
But it's a place to hide because we can come up with
a narrative to convinceourselves of anything about
what's going on, when usuallythe truth is there's an
experience that the universelife brought to you and you keep
avoiding it and it cares enoughthat it keeps coming back until
you decide to just allowyourself to experience it, right

(27:39):
.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
And, um, you know, one of my narratives is I need
to be the strong one, um, thatI'm always serving, helping
everybody else.
And when you kind of get to theroot of that, especially as a
business owner like I put, Ihave, um, put an immense amount
of pressure on myself of, like,I have to perform because
everyone's depending on me and Iand I can't let them down.

(28:02):
And well, what am Icommunicating subconsciously
when I show up and say I don'tthink you can handle hard things
, so I have to work really hardso you don't have to deal with
hard things in your life, right?
Um, and that was something thatI was bringing into my
relationships and bringing intomy business for a long time, and
what I've realized is that'snot true.

(28:23):
Um, everyone, life is good foreverybody and I don't need to
protect anyone from it, and theonly one I was really trying to
protect in the end was myself.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
Right, it's usually what it comes down to, yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
And so everything that I feared the most on an
entrepreneurial journey hashappened.
I've dealt with a multi-yearexpensive lawsuit.
I've had a lot of people.
I've, I've, I feel like you'vemade it.
When you develop, you get somehaters.
You get, you know, I've had tolet people go.
Even last week I let 12 peoplego in my business and that was

(28:56):
just an emotional.
It was.
It was the right thing for thebusiness and the direction that
we're going, but it was.
It was like a rough week, youknow, just a lot of feelings and
easy to get stuck into likeself-judgment or justification,
but the reality is it's felt sad, you know, because these are
people that we're not workingtogether every day.

(29:17):
You just don't see each otherthat much anymore.
You know yeah and uh.
So anyway, and in myexperiences I usually go into my
mind to hide from theexperience that was custom
delivered by life just for meyeah and that life cares enough
for that feeling, for thatemotion, to stick around until
I'm ready for it.
And sometimes that's with a goodlaugh, sometimes that's with a

(29:39):
good cry, whatever that might be.
But it's like there's no wayaround these experiences.
You just gotta go through themand and?
And the mind can't predictwhat's on the other side of that
big feeling.
It can't, and so that's why thething that I always say is it's
not an adventure until youdon't know what's next, Because

(30:01):
until your mind can't anticipatewhat's next, are you really
living, Are you present?
And that's the adventure right.
Once you don't know whathappens.
If I have this conversation thatI know needs to be had in my
relationship, if I address thisthing at work, if I do this over
here or whatever, if I try thisthing that I could fail at

(30:23):
right, the mind doesn't knowwhat's on the other side of that
and that's why it prevents usfrom doing it.
But it isn't until we workthrough that.
On the other side it's like thething we couldn't have planned
for, and my reminder of thatevery day is my fourth child.
My wife and I were reallystruggling in our marriage,
assumed it was kind of to thepoint where we kind of assumed
it wasn't going to work out, forwhich we were for sure done

(30:45):
having kids.
You don't keep having kids.
You know what I mean.
And um, we, you know we startedwith marriage counseling that
ultimately led to my realizationof I'm not showing up like a
partner in this relationship andI'm not showing up as a partner
because I I'm still have a lotof self judgment and things I'm
struggling with and I've justbeen projecting that on her the
last 10 years and um, workingthrough that.

(31:07):
I spent like a year convincinga therapist that I wasn't that
bad.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Like, bless his heart, Um, buton the other side of confronting
my fears of self-doubt,self-criticism, all of those
types of things, uh, that led to, uh, a renewal in our
relationship and we did end upwith um a number four, and he's

(31:30):
my little reminder that it's notan adventure until you don't
know what's next and the thingthat could be on the other side
of that fear, that's my Xander.
Like he's not here.
If I didn't work through thatfear, right, Um, the business.
If I didn't work through thefear of what if this doesn't
work and go for it?
Um, and so I think that that'sthe, that's a fulfilling life

(31:53):
Doesn't mean you don't.
There's still planning, there'sstill structure, there's still
a lot of things that the mind isuseful for.
But, man, if you don't have afew things going on that you
don't know what's on the otherside of it's like.
That's to me, that's what keepslife alive.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
Yeah, it reminds me of the quote from Night at the

(32:31):
Museum, where, near the end ofthe movie, have, at that, start
to build that confidence because, like the first time you have
to go walk into the darkness andyou don't know what's going to
happen, you're like, oh, I madethis worse than it ever was.
And then you have that five orsix times, like, actually I can,
I can get used to this, andthen you have confidence in
yourself, what you're doing, nomatter if you know what the
outcome is, because you know,worst case scenario, I fail and

(32:51):
I failed before and that wasn'tso bad and I learned something
from it and I keep moving on.
Yeah, so it's, it's.
It's fascinating at life,especially at the point where
you can start to be present,aware and intentional because,
like, I mean, I know people inmy life that I mean I've been
going to therapy for years andthey just keep banging their
head of the wall like, no, it'snot me, it's it's them everybody

(33:14):
, it's all up here it's likeeven just hearing about you and
your experience with your wifeand being able to say like, yeah
, I was showing up wrong.
I see why I was and I can changeit.
I can be that person.
And because I want to do thisnot just for you but for me too
because it's not like thatrelationship's the only place
that that feeling's going tohappen- it no longer felt
authentic for me to show up as asuperior in that relationship.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
And I was showing up as a superior in that
relationship because I had a lotof guilt, shame, frustration,
and so I was just projecting.
You know what I mean.
And um, cause it's not aboutbeing the same, but there is.
Equality is not the same assameness, right?
And um, we've been working oncool projects together, cause we

(34:00):
are pretty unique.
Um and uh, I think that's again.
I just think that's what,that's what makes life fun.
But there is this, I call it thepractice.
Um, cause you work through thefear and life surprises and
delights you with an experienceyour mind never could have
anticipated or planned for.
And then it happens again.

(34:21):
We think that once we've workedthrough one fear, the mind then
wants to say well, we'vealready put ourselves out there,
we've already gone through thehard thing once before, we've
already put ourselves out there,We've already gone through the
hard thing once before.
And um, my, my favorite exampleof this is in is in Forrest Gump
, where his heart gets brokenfrom from this girl and he

(34:41):
starts running and then he runsand he runs and he runs and
almost develops like a cultfollowing.
They're like clearly he has itall figured out.
That's why he's running all thetime.
And then until one day he'slike I done, I'm done running,
and then he moves on to the nextstage of his life and, um,
that's what I think is beautifulabout adult and human
development is you're going towork through one fear that's

(35:02):
going to give you a surprise anddelight of a life experience,
and then you're going to getanother one and that's the good
news.
A lot of the times, the mindgoes back to I already did the
hard, why do I need to do thehard thing again?
Um, cause you.
Cause.
That means you're still living,it means you still have an
adventure to go on.
It means like that's the goodnews, that's not the bad news,
and, um, so that's the onlyother thing I'd say there.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yeah, it's, we can pivot after this, or else I
could talk about this for hours.
Um is like the.
The traditional definition ofhinduism is, I mean sorry, of
karma, and hinduism is verydifferent than what we interpret
is as a western culture.
I mean, we see, uh, karma is,oh, bad things happen to bad
people, good things happen togood people.
But in reality, karma is thecyclical process that you find

(35:47):
yourself before you can learnthe lesson to overcome it, to
then reach your life purpose,your dharma.
And so so many people findthemselves in these cycles of
beating their head against thewall, not knowing what's there,
not knowing what's going on,until they can learn a lesson.
And then, in your experience oflike, once you've learned this
lesson, now you feel like youhave this responsibility because
it's not your authentic selfanymore, and then you can take
action and change because, like,knowledge without action is

(36:11):
torment but doesn't mean it'seasy, you know.
And so I'm in a similar,similar ways, and I mean I'm
always in a cycle of it, of liketrying to go, what am I trying?
Like, if it's first, I findmyself banging my head, I'm like
, all right, step back.
Like, what am I trying to learn?
Like what do I?
What's the universe trying toteach me?

Speaker 1 (36:26):
Yeah, if I created this for myself, what was I
hoping to learn from it?

Speaker 2 (36:30):
yeah, yeah, I agree, but jager bazagran, I'm uh, I
want to talk a little more aboutyou now.
I mean we've talked a lot aboutyou but want to talk more about
uh, I mean kind of you, yourbackground, um, and everything
that you've done, because I'mborn and raised in utah, from
spanish for now moved a littlebit more north in provo.
Uh been a marketing guy since Imean forever, starting an

(36:51):
amateur going to Adobe.
But I mean maybe give a littlesummary of uh kind of early life
and led you to starting yourown business.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
Yeah, so I'm number six of 10 children.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
Yeah.
So one of those and umdeveloped this, the story in my
head of the way that I went atlife and get what I want is be a
good boy, do do good things, goon the mission, get the degree,
get the job, get married, havethe kids, get the house like

(37:23):
check, check, check, check,check, kind of working through
all of those things.
And um, and I did all that andI actually loved all of it, but
it never, it never satisfied theway I thought it was going to
satisfy.
Uh, going through that, and soI'm like, well, clearly it's the
next thing, clearly it's thenext thing, clearly it's the
next thing.
And um, and so, yeah, I startedmy career at Omniture and I

(37:46):
learned how to uh deploy webanalytics and uh marry that data
with customer back-end customerdata so that marketers could
make data informed decisions tospend their marketing dollars
smart where they would get thebest ROI.
That's what I, that's the hardskill that I developed early in
my career, and my degree was ininformation systems, and so I

(38:09):
got introduced to marketingthrough data, not through the
practice of marketing itself.
Yet the science, not the art,yeah.
And then, inevitably, and whatthey would all say was.
This is great.
You've given us all theinformation we need to make
great decisions, but we don'thave the bandwidth or expertise
to implement what you'rerecommending.
Okay, and so I experimented witha company that I worked at in

(38:34):
college doing tech support, tosee what does this work for a
small business as well, goingfrom like 25 employees to over
250 employees, because wefigured out their marketing for
them in a way that was reverseengineerable, with just the math
mathed right, and it gave themwhat they needed to grow.
And I said, okay, while I wasworking with them and got them

(38:56):
all the data, they're like wedon't know how to implement this
, and so I said, okay, let mefigure out how to do that.
I'm a scrappy guy, so that'swhat I did.
Is I thought I would be doing.
I thought I would be a data andanalytics consultant for Mike.
When I broke off and did my ownthing, the name of my first
business was found ROI Cause Ihope you find the ROI in your
data.
Everyone, everyone's likewhat's found Roy and like some

(39:17):
off brand.
Where's Waldo?

Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Um, so I changed it to disruptive advertising, which
is out outsmart yourcompetition, don't outspend them
.
Um, and that and that led to mestarting.
You know, I broke offofficially in 2013 is when I no
longer had a full-time job and,um, so now I'm 12 years into
that journey and it's it's beenawesome.
It started in my basement, uh,we have about 120 employees now,

(39:42):
um, and we're like literallyone of.
We are the top ratedperformance marketing agency in
the country, and because wefigured that out and we went for
it, and so that's kind of likeprofessionally, just quick
snapshot of what I've done there.
But I will tell you, life andentrepreneurship is the fast

(40:05):
track to being confronted withyour fears, and then what
happens is you start usingbusiness as a way to cope with
and avoid them.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
Well, you know, I get the dopamine hits all the time
at work.
People listen to me, peoplethink I'm cool, I'm making money
, I feel kind of like a big shot.
And then I go home and itdoesn't feel that way at all.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
Diapers need to be changed.
The house is dirty.
Garbage needs to come though.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
Yeah, and so that's the.
That's a little bit more of thejourney that I've been on
totally and then a couple ofyears ago, um, do I?
do I sell my business?
Do I like, what do I do now?
Because I just checked most ofthe boxes that I was looking to
and the vision that I had forthe business had been realized.
And without a vision, thepeople perish.
If you don't have something,something, an intention, you

(40:49):
kind of just start meanderingfor a little while and I didn't
know what I wanted, but I didn'tfeel right to sell it and so I.
So I kind of took a step backto kind of well, what's next for
me, what's in this next stageof life?
And, um, part of what wasfeeling uncomfortable is that

(41:10):
all of these businesses I wasdoing marketing for, um, this is
, this is gonna be an extremestatement, but it felt kind of
true.
It's like am I a drug dealer ora marketer?
Because for a lot of thesebusinesses they say I'll be
happy when you help me hit thisbusiness goal.
And then we would hit thebusiness goal and they still
weren't happy.
And I'm like I'm doing thething and they're doing the same
thing.
And we keep telling ourselveswe'll be happy when we

(41:30):
accomplish this business thing.
And then we accomplish thatbusiness thing and we still feel
the same.
So what's going on?
And and that's where I againthis was call it my professional
midlife crisis of like, whatdoes this mean?
Because it doesn't feel good tojust keep showing up and doing
this, and that's what led me todeveloping Disruptive University

(41:52):
, and that is helping a businessunderstand what makes it unique
.
It's why, beyond making money,it's true differentiators, the
values that drive it, theinefficiency it solves in the
marketplace, the value that itprovides to their customers.
There is like a unique visionthat this business needs to find
, because without it, it is justabout making money.
Okay, but the right vision,paradoxically enough, helps you

(42:16):
generally grow it better andmake more money.
And then their strategy, whichis who is your customer that
you're really serving?
Have you translated thebusiness goals into marketing
goals and are you really servingthis customer at each step in
their life journey, and howyou're serving them with your
products or services?
And then, ultimately, you gotto execute that right.
And so I've, I've, I'veredefined how we help businesses

(42:38):
win from a marketing standpoint, because we were mostly just
doing strong execution for them.
Now we get more involved withwhat's your vision, what's the
strategy to accomplish thatvision and now let's go execute
against that, and then that'sthe disruptive marketer.
That's the course that I've puttogether in the program that I

(42:58):
train my own people with andthat when people reach out to us
, we say we can help you in twoways.
We can either do it for you orwe can train you how to do this
for yourself as well.
Now, and then I do the samething for just humans.
I call it Authenticity Wins.
I've got a book that'sreleasing later this year and
helping an individual do thatfor themselves.
What makes you unique?
What's your why, beyond makingmoney, what are your unique

(43:22):
strengths and weaknesses thatallow you to serve the world and
be served by the world?
What are your values that drive?
Uh, what's going on in yourlife?
What's the inefficiencies thatyou see that you can help other
people with?
What's the value that that'scontributing?
And we, we kind of find thatclarity and that's the
authenticity wins book and someof the courses and things that
I've put together, cause I feellike without that it's easy to

(43:44):
just kind of devolve into purecapitalism, to just make money
and it just, and I don't.
I don't think that that's goodor bad, I just think it's not
satisfying after a little while.
It's very hollow After a while.
I think it's actually quitefulfilling for a little bit yeah
totally yeah, and sometimes youkind of need to make some money
before you realize it doesn'tmatter as much as you thought it
did.
So I, so I honor that path,that anyone.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
That's the path I had to go on wasn't being scratched
, no matter how much I keptscratching at it.
And because, again, like whenyou have these moments that you

(44:27):
define, if I can hit this muchrevenue, if I can hit this much
head count, if I can do, I mean,whatever the outcome might be,
I mean the outcome happens in aflash and it's gone.
But if you can change yourbrain from going from, I mean
it's always good to have goalsand plans, and I like to think
of it similar to the way I thinkabout like.
I mean, a podcast interview islike it's a walk in the woods.
I generally know where I'mgoing to start.
I generally know where I'mgoing to go and how I'm going to

(44:48):
end, but doesn't mean I'm notgoing to see like a fun detour
and try to see what that lookslike.
Maybe come back if I need to,or maybe there's another path I
don't even know about.
And so the people that youwanted to be with, or were you
just all about this one goal andso beholden to this goal that

(45:09):
you were going to do that youdidn't like doing it, and then,
once you get there, you don'teven know where to go next
because you're so fixed on thisone goal to have, and money is
one that most people fix theirway to, and I've been lucky
enough to talk to so many peoplewho have been and had financial
success for them to get to thepoint like, yeah, it reached a
point where it didn't reallymatter anymore, but I wanted to

(45:30):
find my own fulfillment in otherthings, and it can be so many
different things.
And that goes back to kind oflike the hindu principle of
dharma is everybody has apurpose that they need to find
the joy in their life.
They're calling their lifemeaning and it's unique to
everybody, like even even usinglike a relationship as an
example.
Like you and your wife eachhave their own dharma and you

(45:51):
can support them in it.
You can help that like well,not help.
You can champion them to do it,but at the end of the day, it is
their thing to do and you can'tdo it for them.
Theirs can't be yours.
You can't tag team it, tag teamit.
One can be massive, one can besmaller, but at the end of the
day, it's you that has to get togo through this journey.
And once you find yourself inthe journey and get yourself

(46:12):
away from the destinations, thenthat's when a lot of the magic
moments start to happen and thatthat that itch that you wanted
to scratch is slowly startsfeeling scratched.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
Well, and I think the the belief that I was
confronted with, and you canprobably relate to some degree,
is that I only am enough when Ido enough, and there is this
paradox of being and doing thatis part of the human experience
right.
Yes being all the time, thenthere's no context or container

(46:44):
for it to mean anything Right.
And so, at least where thebelief that I was confronted
with is am I enough?
Innately, or do I do?
I need to do some level ofaccomplishment to finally be
enough, and I feel like that's,that's a belief that everyone
will be confronted with, uh,throughout their life, and we
will forget from time to timebut I think especially kind of

(47:05):
like in that 20s and 30s, webase most of our identity on
what we do, not who we are.
Yeah, right, I actually thinkthat's a beautiful part of the
human lifetime, by the way,because when you're little being
is enough.
When you're old, being isenough, and there's this in in
the body of the book, where youbase all your earth on what
you're doing.
Just to remember, it was asandcastle I was building the

(47:28):
whole time anyway.
Now it's gone, the tide cameand took it and I was always
enough the whole time.
That was never in question.
And then you can kind of takeand run with that and almost
land in nihilism, which isnothing matters.
Then, right, which, sure, ifthat's what you want to believe,
that's fine.
Or it all does, right, both arejust stories, right, but the

(47:52):
reality is there's.
It's a paradox.
That's what life is.
Life is a paradox of somethingand nothing being and doing and,
um, both give each othermeaning, because one without the
other doesn't really work.
And so I like to buildsandcastles, and I know it's
going to get knocked over, andthen I get to build another one,
yeah, right.
And so that to me is like Ithink that's what makes life fun

(48:15):
and enjoyable and that's where,with business, I try not to get
overly attached to it, becausethis pivot that I've made for
the business means that Iactually ended up having way too
many people focused onexecution.
And guess what AI is doing to alot of the execution-based roles
.
They're just not needed the waythat they used to be.
Right Now I need marketers thatunderstand vision and strategy

(48:37):
and how to leverage the tools toget the execution done, and
that's a pretty big pivot.
Execution done and that's apretty big pivot.
And I could hold on to theagency and the business of old
for as long as I can until itjust gets ripped from my cold
dead body Right, or I can adaptand evolve with that and um so,
with the university, with theagency, disruptive advertising,

(48:58):
it's like again, I'm like Ialready did the hard things and
here's another opportunity tostep into the unknown, and I
think a lot of us are feelingthat business wise right now.
There's a lot of unknown in theeconomy, with AI, with all of
these things, and at least oneguy's perspective is that's the
good news, because we don't knowwhat's next and we get to

(49:19):
experience what's on the otherside of that, and I'm excited to
be on that journey.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
Yeah, and it's.
It's a lot of that perspectiveto you.
Like that's one thing I've beenthinking a lot about recently
is the difference between like Imean joy and happiness, and
like sadness and despair, cause,at the end of the day, like
life isn't linear, there's goingto be highs, there's going to
be lows, and that's one of thefew guarantees that we have.
But once you get to thementality of nothing lasts
forever, everything is going topass eventually can either be

(49:46):
the best thing in the world orthe worst thing in the world.
Because if you look at that atthe highs and you're like this
isn't going to last forever,everything's going to come
crashing, and then you come intothe negatives and you're like
this is going to last forever,it's never going to end.
But if you can flip that scriptand instead, in the highs, be
like I'm going to enjoy thisBecause it's not gonna last
forever exactly and then, onceyou get to the negatives,

(50:06):
instead of being tormented by,my life is over.
This is never gonna end.
You're like I just gotta getthrough this we're gonna learn.
It's gonna just gonna feel itthere's something to learn, yeah
and so you can have this joy oflife of realizing like, oh yeah
, like the goods are here, thebads will go great.
But then, on the despair sideof saying the happiness isn't
going to be here forever and thepain is going to be there
forever, and it's just like thismental switch and I mean the

(50:28):
same way with like.
I mean, if you're a businessowner, you're looking at well,
how ai is going to impact mybusiness, how are tariffs going
to impact my business?
What's the economy look like?
There's a, there's a laundrylist of questions that could
stress you out forever.
Or you could say or it's a goodtime to redefine the way I think
about my sales and marketingplan, or it's going to be the
different way to pivot my entirebusiness strategy, or is there
a new product that I need to doto think of this?
Or how do I think about my headcount?

(50:49):
Do I really need this manypeople and if, do these people
even want to do this anymore?
I had to be upskill andup-train that and it's like,
like you said, I like thinkingof things more of the than the
big scary beast behind the wallthat's waiting to get me.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
Yeah.
And then where I challengemyself and all of us, is do I
believe I'm enough to deal withwhatever life brings?
And I think the answer is I am.
And the next question is do Ibelieve everyone else is enough
to deal with what life bringsthem?
And the answer is yes.

(51:25):
I don't need to protect peoplefrom life, Right, and?
And I don't need to protectmyself from life.
It's that that's actually whatgets us stuck Um and so, whether
that's in business or in arelationship.
I've got four kids, it's.
It's easy for me to want to tryand protect people from life.
Yeah, and cause, cause, that'sknown, that's again, I can
anticipate that.

(51:45):
And there is a level ofresponsibility.
I'm not.
I'm not saying that there's nota level of responsibility that
we have for the relationships inour lives, but not to remove
life and to unconsciouslycommunicate lack of belief in
their ability to deal with life,which is a projection of our
unwillingness to think we candeal with life as it comes.
And I believe that, come whatmay, all is well.

(52:07):
I get to work through it.
I don't get to control what theexperience is of all of that,
but I do get to control if Iallow myself to experience it
and do my best with it.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
Yeah, and you've survived everything so far.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
So far.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
And I mean it's so important because, like, there's
one thing I think about a lotLike I don't have kids and I'm
still on the fence if I want to.
But I think a lot about like,what if I did?
What would my theory be?
What would my ethos be of childraising?
And like, because everyone'salways phrased it as like you
don't have kids, so I'm like youmean, do I did?
My whole theory would be like Iwant to prepare someone for the

(52:44):
world that they are, someonewho can give back, doesn't take
from the general system that welive in, and be prepared to face
hard things and have had gonethrough hard things so they're
prepared for it, whereas me,we're in the age, or maybe at
the tail end, of like thehelicopter parents, of like, oh,
I need to protect my kid fromeverything.
Nothing bad can happen to them,and then they go out to the
real world and and hard thingshappen yeah, and they don't know

(53:07):
what to do about it.
And so it's like, yeah, like, oh, my kid just like tripped and
scuffed his knee and like, yeah,the needle healed, now he knows
not to run downstairs.
We're like something.
Like something so trivial, um,but it's in the same way for all
of us.
Like we want to protectourselves, and part of it is our
own, I mean, brain and ourmental capacity to say like, oh,
like that's the big bad wolfcan't go over there, which is

(53:28):
like part of our wiring, as Imean these once neanderthalic
creatures that needed that tosurvive.
But now that's not necessarilythe case.
And like I mean I could talkabout the book forever, but one
of my favorite books I've readlast year is a new earth by
eckhart tolle, and he kind ofit's a beautiful book, beautiful
book, and I love how heprefaces it like there's there's
never been a book that's had anintro.
That's just like punched me inthe face for like everything,

(53:50):
because he essentially talksabout how everything has a
moment of enlightenment.
At some point a flower had tobloom for the first time, and
this is in me of like middle ofme, just loving to paint flowers
and finding fascination when Iwas like, how did you know that?
That's the perfect example.
And he's like the first timethe carbon turned into a diamond
yada, yada, yada.
And then, even in the intro,he's like this book is either
going to change your life orit's going to be a waste of time
for you.

(54:11):
And, um, what was I saying withthat?
Oh, um, on the like narrativesthat we tell ourselves to keep
ourselves, like that cognitivedissonance, like the brain is
super powerful, like it wants toprotect itself as much as
possible and it likes to trickyou.
Like the one I think about alot is.
I mean when people like, oh,they're probably thinking this.
Or like, oh, someone's watchingme and doing that.

(54:32):
Like, no, no, it's actuallyyour brain just personifying
your own insecurities, fears,whatever, on something else, so
that you can look and be like,oh, they're probably thinking
about how much I look weirddoing this or how much they hate
that I do that.
Like, no, no, there's probablysomething inside of you that's
not truly at peace withsomething and you need to, you
need to think about that.
So the book, I mean.
What motivated you to want toput pen to paper?

(54:53):
Cause, I mean, I'm like I'msomeone who thinks a lot about
these things, but at what pointyou're like either hey, I've got
to get this out of my head,just to get it out on something,
cause I I'm a big believer inlike, when my brain's quiet, I
need to read, or I need to takein information, and when my
brain's really loud, I need towrite it down.
So I'm curious if you hadsimilar that experience of just
having all of these thoughts andgrowth and wanting to put it
down, or being like this iswhat's helped me.

(55:15):
I think this will help otherpeople and obviously like not
mutually exclusive and can bothbe part of it.

Speaker 1 (55:20):
You know, I don't know that I've thought about it
quite that way.
It's, um, I get the sense thatyou're an external processor and
I am as well, right, and sosome people think about things
in their head and by the timethey say something out loud,
they've thought about it a lotof different ways.
Um, for myself, I actuallyreally enjoy processing out loud

(55:40):
with someone to make sense ofthings.
Cool, okay, and so I found thatthe creation process is I
usually am pretty strong atgetting the core concepts and
outlines of things that I wantto put together, and I actually
put it into a course formatfirst for the practice that I go
through on an annual basis ofannual renewal and practicing a

(56:01):
lot of these principles thatwe're talking about in here.
And I said I want to get thisinto something that is like my
annual practice, and so Iactually put that all together
and that's what I go throughonce a year, and I share my
takeaways from that with a groupof entrepreneurs that I go on a
trip with once a year, and I'mlike I'm going to turn this into
something that's a littleeasier for me to and simple for

(56:21):
me to like work through all ofthis, and so it actually turned
into an outline, a practice thatI'd been doing for a while.
And then I said this is reallyhelpful for me.
I'll put it in a course andmake it available for people at
my company, right?
And then I'm like, okay,there's a lot of people getting
cool benefit from the coursesthat they're going through in my
company.
I'll start sharing this outsideof that, and people seem to be

(56:42):
getting a lot of value from that.
And then I'm like, okay, well,the course is a longer way,
because it takes 10, 12 weeks towork through all of that.
Um, your first time after thatusually a weekend, you can work
through all of it.
Um, and I'm like, man, whatwould I have wished that I had
had when I was a little youngerto understand these things?
I'm like, oh, a book that Icould listen to in three hours,

(57:05):
you know.
And so then I just put it intoa book format, and so for me
it's more of a taking, somethingthat I've learned, and I guess
10 years and a few hundred grandof, like, therapy, coaching,
consultants, um, all of thatyeah.
Right, and I'm like it took methis long to figure all of these
things out for myself.

(57:25):
What if I wrote a book about itthat, if I had read 10 years
ago, would have just been reallyhelpful for me at that time?

Speaker 2 (57:30):
Totally.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
In the midst of marital struggles, in the midst
of business struggles, in themidst of doubting if I'm enough
to deal with what life throws atme, or whatever.
So I'm like, okay, well, let'sput it into a book.
And the length of book, I'mlike I want one that I can kind
of listen to in a day, on oneand a half, 1.75.
Yeah, and I'm like, great.
And so anytime I recordsomething, anytime I write

(57:55):
something, anytime I postsomething, the only question I
ask is does this inspire me?
Do I get value from this?

Speaker 2 (58:06):
because if not, then what am I well like?
Why?

Speaker 1 (58:08):
am I sharing it.
It's just theory at that point,right, and so that's kind of
the evolution of the steps thatled to putting it in a book, and
so I didn't ever quite thinkabout it the way that you were,
that you were talking about itjust kind of was a natural
progression yeah, which I meanit feels now like I see the
logical progression through itall and I like that.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
I mean you've gone through the work where it's not.
I mean you see people writesome books like look how smart I
am, everyone's gonna buy this,I'm gonna make a lot of money.
It's like that's weird.
But then once you get to thepoint where, like yo man, like
this has helped me a lot, it'shelping all these contexts, like
I also kind of do just want tolike write it down and then now
when I do, my yeah, like thiscould help someone and if, like
if it helps 5, 10, 500, 5 000, 5million people start this

(58:46):
journey to be their moreauthentic self, be present, be
intentional about their life,then like yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
My only criteria is does it help me?
Yeah, and if the end?
If the answer is yes, I don'tcare if anyone else does.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
Have you read the creative act by rick rubin?
Okay, because that's whatreminds that of me is like if
you feel confident withsomething that you create and

(59:19):
put out into the.
I have dive into your brain morewhen that happens.
Jacob, this has been great.
I always I joke about it, but,like every time I record with
someone, I always have like thisidea of how everything's going
to go and I always, like, theexperience always trumps that.
Like I always have a betterconversation, get to know
someone better and connect withsomeone better.
So thank you for being anotherdata point in that.

(59:40):
But before we wrap up, I wantto ask the two questions I
always ask everybody before theepisode is uh or sorry.
Before ending, every episode isone.
If you could have someone onthe small lake city podcast and
hear more about what they're upto in their story, who would you
want to hear from?

Speaker 1 (59:53):
Oh well, the first.
I mean you already mentionedhis name.
You should get Eckhart on here.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
Oh, like if I would, if I were to talk to him, I'd be
like listen, I want a weekend,I want to just yeah record the
entire thing like his brain,like that book alone was
something that like and like.
You know those books where,like you read a chapter, you're
like, all right, put this bookaway for a minute.
I need like a week to reallyjust sit with this integrate and

(01:00:18):
that was one like.
I met a friend who read the booktoo and they're like yeah, I
listened to it over a weekend.
It it wasn't really my thing.
I'm like and like, like, notsaying you did it wrong, but
like yeah probably didn't do itwrong.
It probably might also likeprobably not even ready for it,
but I would love to talk withhim.
He is probably one of likethere's like my favorite people

(01:00:49):
that I mean that card's probablymore recent one, but um, atlas
of the heart by bernie brown,like it's those sort of people
that can look at a problem andthink about it a little bit
differently approach things froma different way, and I mean,
I'm someone who could sit at atable and just sit and talk and
well, I mean shocker, um, but no, that would be a fun one to
have.
And then, lastly, if you want tofind out more information about
Disruptive about you pre-orderthe book or get a notification
when that's going to come out,where's the best place to find
more information?

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
So the agency we pair our marketers with brands they
believe in.
So if you need an agency,disruptiveadvertisingcom We've
got a really cool visionstrategy execution audit that we
provide for free.
That usually blows anyone'smind, whether they work with us
or not.
Cool Disruptive University ismore of the personal growth

(01:01:33):
development, marketing,entrepreneurship type trainings
there, and then I'm most activeon LinkedIn so you can follow me
there, and then the book comesout later this year Authenticity
Wins authenticitywinscom, andwe have our episodes being
recorded that we'll be launchingwith our podcast as well.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
So yeah, yeah, so definitely go follow along.
I'm excited to read the bookwhen it comes out.
Yeah, I'll definitely keep aneye out for that.
But, jacob, this has been great.
Thanks so much for coming onExcited for all the things
you're.