February 13, 2026 • 35 mins
Justin Depow is the inventor of C*ck Block, the first sex tech product designed specifically to combine penetration and frot in one shared experience. After leaving a successful corporate career in product management, Justin took a personal challenge and turned it into a bold entrepreneurial journey. Following years of struggling with undiagnosed pelvic floor dysfunction that made anal sex painful and anxiety producing, he began questioning why intimacy in gay male culture was so narrowly defined. What started as a deeply personal frustration evolved into more than a decade of research, prototyping, and persistence to create a product that expands how queer men and other penis havers can experience connection and pleasure face to face.
In this candid and wide ranging conversation, Justin and Dr. Joe Kort explore the meaning of frot, why outercourse is often dismissed as not real sex, and how rigid top and bottom roles can limit sexual expression. Justin shares the emotional impact of finally receiving the correct medical diagnosis, how pelvic floor physical therapy changed his life, and why he felt compelled to design something that offered an alternative to anal intercourse without sacrificing intimacy. He also opens up about the realities of launching a sex toy company, from manufacturing challenges and international supply chains to unexpected barriers from banks, warehouses, and online advertising platforms that continue to stigmatize sexual wellness businesses.
The discussion also highlights the growing visibility of sides and others who prefer non anal sex, and the cultural resistance that still exists within and outside the LGBTQ community. Justin explains how customer feedback has shaped the evolution of C*ck Block into a customizable system with different textures and upcoming innovations, including new form factors and vibration options. At its core, his mission aligns closely with Joe’s long standing message that pleasure, connection, and sexual satisfaction do not have to revolve around penetration.
Listen to this Smart Sex, Smart Love episode as Dr. Joe Kort talks with Justin Depow about redefining gay intimacy, challenging sexual scripts, innovating in queer sex tech, and expanding what counts as real sex.
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JOE KORT (00:00):
Welcome everyone to smart sex, smart love, where
(00:03):
talking about s*x goes beyondthe taboo and talking about love
goes beyond the honeymoon. Myguest today is Justin Depow.
Justin is the inventor of c*ckblock, the first s*x tech
product designed specificallyfor fraud. He left a senior
corporate position to dedicatehis time to this proudly gay
owned and operated business thatcreates products which cater to
(00:25):
the unique needs of the LGBTQplus community. After struggling
with penetrative sex due to anundiagnosed medical condition,
Justin began questioning whyintimacy was so narrowly
defined, and why no productexisted for alternatives what
started as a personal needbecame a decade long journey of
design, prototyping andpersistence to create something
(00:47):
entirely new. Justin's workfocuses on expanding how we
think about intimacy, pleasureand inclusion in the sexual
wellness industry today, Justinis going to talk about his
invention, how he got involvedin it and the challenges he has
faced, and what is next for himand his company. Welcome Justin,
Justin Depow (01:06):
thank you so much, Joe. I'm so happy to be here.
JOE KORT (01:09):
I'm so happy to have you here, too. And before we
start, I figured if we couldhave you define for the
audience, so that they know whatfrot means, F, R, O, T
Justin Depow (01:18):
Sure. Well, first of all, I want to thank you.
This is my very first podcast.
So this is a great, veryexciting day for me and for my
business. I kind of feel likeI'm coming out for the second
time, or this is the completionof that journey. You know,
leaving my professional careerto, you know, to head a gay s*x
toy business is certainly arisk, and it took me, took me
(01:40):
quite a while to fully embraceit. I think I was kind of in
shock when I left the corporateworld. And then over time, I
slowly started putting, youknow, attaching my name to this
business, and this is my firstpodcast, so I I'm fully
embracing it, because I willlive on the internet, forever in
video form. So thank you somuch. It's an honor to be here
(02:02):
talking to you.
JOE KORT (02:05):
Oh, I'm honored that I'm going to be your first
Justin Depow (02:09):
I've lost my podcast virginity with you.
Thank you.
JOE KORT (02:11):
You're welcome. Yeah.
So and you're also going to beassociated with frot, obviously.
So maybe we can tell audienceswhat that means,
Justin Depow (02:19):
Absolutely. So I mean, fraud is pretty
straightforward. It's rubbingtwo two penises together to c*ck
together, as I would say, inpart of the, you know, c*ck
block world. And you know, it'sbetween any two gay guys or any
other penis havers, such as inthe trans community. And, you
(02:39):
know, some curious or straightguys, depending on how people
identify, and it's mostly at thepoint of the frenulum. So the
frenulum is that part of themale anatomy, kind of on the
underside of the glands thattends to be really sensitive. So
you know, whether or not you'recut or uncut. You know, rubbing
(03:01):
one penis against another inthat position is really
pleasurable and intimate. So Iwould, you know, define fraught
as the rubbing of two c*cks the,you know, not everyone knows
that term, but that is, youknow, a lot of people are kind
of familiar with with the act.
JOE KORT (03:21):
I'll tell you sides know what frot is. So I knew the
term. I guess I knew it as a s*xtherapist, but I didn't. We
didn't really talk a lot aboutit. I didn't learn a lot about
it. And when I started, we havea side Facebook group of about
9000 men across the world, andthey're all, they're always
posting about fraud. And am Isaying it wrong? Is it frot or fraught?
Justin Depow (03:41):
I say fraught.
JOE KORT (03:42):
Yeah, I like the way you say better, actually. And
thank you for explaining it. Andnow maybe you could tell us how
c*ck block what it is and whatit's for
Justin Depow (03:52):
Sure, c*ck block is the world's first and only
s*x toy or s*x product that wasthat combines the sensations of
both frot and penetration. So asI mentioned, for any two penis
havers and the way it'sdesigned, the it's made of two
parts. There's an internalsleeve that's soft and
comfortable to penetrate. But,and I have one right here. I
(04:16):
know some of your customers arelistening into audio, so I'll
try to explain this, you know,throughout, you know, verbally,
but it actually has two holes.
And the reason it has two holesis it gives each partner that
feeling of penetration, and thenon the inside, when you go
further, kind of down theproduct. Right about here, the
(04:37):
two holes merge into onechannel. So the two separate
holes give that feeling ofpenetration, and then when you
come into the channel, the c*cksactually touch skin on skin, and
provides that that frotexperience. The reason we it's
two parts is the outside part.
(04:58):
Again, or the inside part isit's softer, it's really
comfortable to penetrate, andthen the outside is made out of
silicone, and that gives afeeling kind of a compression
and tightness. But what's reallyimportant is that the reason we
chose silicone is you cansqueeze it if you tend to want,
(05:18):
if tend to be a little bit lessgirthy and you want a little bit
more pressure, plus it has somestretch. So if you happen to be
girthier, it can accommodatemost size c*cks.
JOE KORT (05:31):
I love the respect you're giving to talking about
penis size and girth and allthat, because I think a lot of
people would look at that maybewho feel like maybe they
couldn't fit, or they would fit,but it wouldn't be, you know,
big enough, or whatever, like,have you had people have
concerns about any of that?
Justin Depow (05:47):
So yes, in fact, that's one of the common
questions we get, is this going,you know, is this going to fit
me? And you know, to be honest,that was probably the most
foundational challenge ofdesigning this product. You
know, penises come in everyshape and size. And how do you
one of the challenges was, howdo we create a product that can
(06:10):
accommodate all shapes andsizes? And, you know, as part of
designing, you know, the initialprototypes and trying to figure
out, you know, how to do this. Imean, I looked at biology
textbooks, anatomy textbooks,like I literally was looking at,
what are the numbers, what arethe ranges? And that actually
(06:30):
made it more alarming, becausethen I learned that, wow,
there's, you know, this is ahuman organ that has huge
variance. And the challenge was,how do you build a product for
two and that's one of thereasons why this was designed
the way it was, and that outsidesilicone part was really key and
a big differentiator for thesetype of products.
JOE KORT (06:53):
Wow, a lot went into doing this, like what led you to
invent this?
Justin Depow (06:58):
So when I first came out, I'm gonna be honest, I
thought that was the hard part,and it certainly was. But I
thought, Okay, this is behind menow. You know it's gonna be, you
know, easier from here on in.
And the truth was, it wasn't forme. One of my first s*xual
experiences was with someone whowanted to top and I just found,
(07:19):
I just found bottoming really,really difficult, and that
continued to be a challenge forme for many years. And I thought
something was wrong with me. Ifelt like I didn't really fit
in. It sort of became a, kind ofan ongoing anxiety about, you
know, if I'm with somebody, arethey, you know, what are they?
(07:41):
You know, the whole top versusbottom, where, you know, is this
going to work? And it went onfor a long time, and I didn't
realize that I had anundiagnosed medical condition,
and it took almost two decadesfor me to be properly diagnosed,
and it's called pelvic floordysfunction. It, you know, a way
(08:02):
to explain it, I think, is, youknow, some people carry tension
maybe in their neck and they getheadaches. You know, some people
might carry tension in theirbacks. They might get back
aches. Some people hold tensionin their pelvic floor. And what
happens is that, over time,things get tighter and tighter,
(08:24):
but not in the good way. It'snot the good tightness, it's a
bad tightness, and for both maleand females, that can lead to a
lot of problems s*xually and inother parts of one's health. So
the the symptoms overlap a lotwith prostatitis in men. So for
decades, I was on antibioticsbecause urologist thought I had
(08:46):
chronic prostatitis, wow. And Iused to travel a lot for work,
and I just got really lucky. Igot a job in Chicago. I had a
new urologist who happened to bemarried to one of the few
physical therapists in the USthat specializes in pelvic floor
dysfunction. Oh my gosh. And bypure chance, he said, You know
(09:08):
what, I'm happy to fill yourprescription, but I want you to
see my wife first. And he sentme over, and it changed my life.
JOE KORT (09:19):
Wow, that is incredible. I am so happy you're
sharing that story as a man,because we usually hear about
that from women, about women,but not from men.
Justin Depow (09:28):
It's true, and it's funny, because I remember
waiting in her waiting room, andshe comes out. First of all, I
wasn't what I was expecting. Shewas she was really beautiful,
like full makeup and hair. And Iremember thinking, Oh, Who is
this lady? And she invites meinto her office, and she said,
after about 20 minutes, becauseshe had to do some testing to
(09:51):
find out what was going on, andshe said, I pretty much knew
when I saw you, because everytime I see a young guy in my
what. Room. It's always pelvicfloor issues, wow. And it
started out specifically dealingwith, you know, my medical
symptoms. And it was only afterI left I started thinking about,
I'm like, Maybe she can help mewith my s*xual issues. And I had
(10:14):
to really build up a lot ofcourage for my second
appointment to ask her, Listen,I know we're here to deal with,
you know, these, you know, youknow these symptoms, but can you
help me with s*x? And she said,and I was actually really, I
almost, you know, I got reallyemotional because I didn't
realize how much was sort ofpent up inside me in terms of
(10:36):
the stress of it. And she was,she was amazing. She's like,
Absolutely. She said, this ispart of what I do. She said, I
deal with trans people after,you know, post op, who are
learning how to use, you know,their new anatomy. She said
this. She said, I'm here foryou. And she literally changed
my life. And it was anincredible experience, and so
(10:58):
freeing. But even after that,even after I had gone through,
you know, treatment, I stillrealized that, you know,
bottoming isn't alwaysspontaneous. It takes a lot of,
you know, a lot of people wantto take a lot of effort and
planning, because there's a lotof concerns around hygiene, and
sometimes you just want to spicethings off and do something a
(11:20):
little different. So even after,I mean, those medical issues got
me that's what got me thinking,How do I solve this? Because my
professional background isproduct management, I tend to
see problems as a product in thewaiting. So I couldn't help but
think, how am I going to solvethis? And that's when I started
thinking about, you know, beforemy diagnosis, what can I do?
(11:43):
What kind of product couldreally help? And I actually went
to some adult toy stores lookingfor a product like mine, and I
was shocked that it didn't exist.
JO (11:54):
How long ago was that again?
Justin Depow (11:56):
So that was about, let's see. So I would say that
was about 50, about 15 to 20,actually, about 20 years ago
now, because it took me around alittle bit over 10, actually
about 15 years. It took me about10 years to come up with the
concept slowly work onprototypes. I used to build the
prototypes in my on my kitchenfloor, you know, you know, after
(12:19):
work, I would kind of work on itas a hobby. So it was kind of
like a hobby for over a decade.
And sort of think about like,you know, what would solve this?
What is the right design, whatare the right materials, how do
they need to come together tomake a pleasurable experience
that that fits most size c*cks,yeah. And then after about five
(12:39):
years ago, end up, you know,launching, I have an associate,
Philip, the two of us launchedthe store. And then I left my
day job about two and a halfyears ago to focus on this full time.
JOE KORT (12:53):
It's really very, very interesting. A lot of people,
it's a big risk, right? A lot ofpeople like even going when I
was in a early young therapist.
I went from agency work toprivate practice. It's, it's a
huge leap, and you have to trustthem and know that if it doesn't
work out, you went for yourdream, and it does. When it does
work out, it's even better.
Justin Depow (13:11):
Yeah. I mean, it is a huge risk. And, you know,
when you talk to entrepreneurs,you know, with any type of
product, they all say that thesame thing that, you know, like,
I threw everything into this,you know, I invested my money,
my time, my resources, into thiskind of dream of solving this
problem, really for myself andthen for others. And yeah, it
(13:32):
was risky, and I was stillworking for about two years
after I launched, and it reallygot to the point where I just
couldn't focus on two things. Icouldn't pretend that I could
throw myself into my corporateday job and also work, you know,
every other you know, weekendand evening on this and I
started, actually, I remember, Iknew it was time to leave, and
(13:53):
during one of my corporatemeetings, I accidentally refer,
I didn't say c*ck block, but Ireferred to something, cock
block adjacent. I can't, I thinkwas a piece of software we're
using for something. I was like,I can't keep these worlds
separate any longer.
JOE KORT (14:09):
It's funny. Now, you almost didn't, you almost gave
up. It's I read. Tell me whythat almost happened.
Justin Depow (14:16):
So, I mean, there was, there was a quite a few
things that happen. I'll tellyou, you know, you know, maybe,
I guess a couple things tomention. One was getting this
thing manufactured. It wasreally difficult, and it seems
so simple, especially when you,you know, when you get it and
you hold it, you're like, Okay,this is, you know, the inside is
(14:39):
made out of a TPE material thathas a certain softness. The
outside shell is made ofsilicone that has a certain kind
of elasticity and softness.
What's the big deal? And the bigdeal was I really knew my mind
what I wanted, and themanufacturers I was working with
really were thinking of this asa two hold stroker. So. So solo
male masturbators are a reallybig seller in the s*x toy world,
(15:02):
and there's a lot of them. Sowhat happened was the I kept
getting basically versions oftwo hold strokers. So they're
designed very differently,because they're only for one
penis. So an example is solostrokers usually have a hard
plastic shell because you'reholding on to it. It's not
really meant to do anythingother than contain the soft
(15:25):
sleeve and enable you to kind ofstroke yourself with it. But as
I mentioned, this isn't for onepenis. This is for two that come
in every shape and size. So theoutside silicone shell had to be
soft enough to be comfortableagainst bodies. It couldn't be a
hard plastic. It had to besqueezable, but it also had to
(15:45):
contain things. So there was areal balance in terms of
softness, elasticity, comfort,stretch. And I just, I kept
doing prototype after prototypefrom suppliers that completely
missed the mark, and this wenton for well over a year. Same
thing with the inner sleeve it.
I didn't want it as soft as astroker, because that's really
(16:09):
intended to replicate anatomy.
C*ck block isn't meant toreplicate anatomy. It's kind of
like a c*ck adapter where onecock can have s*x with another
c*ck. So the sleeve had to havea little bit more structure to
kind of help keep thingspositioned. It was really
important that the c*ck staycock aligned, if you will. And
so it was just frustrating. Itfelt like it kept going forever,
(16:32):
and I kept on getting differentmaterials, and just nothing
seemed to work. So I ended uphaving to go there. So
obviously, a lot of suppliers inthe adult toy industry are in
China at my kind of, wait,that's a whole other
conversation. Like, why aren'tyou making it North America or
the US? I wanted to, couldn'tfind anyone to do it, and so I
(16:54):
ended up going, you know, toChina, and getting it over the
finish line.
JOE KORT (17:01):
I'm glad you mentioned that, because people probably do
would wonder about that. Andthere are you must you have your
own reason, which would be inmaybe another podcast or behind
the scenes.
Justin Depow (17:09):
Absolutely, it might be back. I could talk at
length of any of these topics.
You know, it's fascinating howthe industry works, and it's
fascinating how the supply chainworks, and, yeah, the only way I
could get this made at thisstage, although I'm always
looking for, you know, optionswas to have this made in what is
really the s*x toy capital ofthe world. Shenzhen.
JOE KORT (17:29):
Oh, wow. What reaction surprised you when this was
launched.
Justin Depow (17:35):
So when we finally launched, the surprise was a
good one. You know, with myproduct background, you really
never know if a product is goingto be successful until it goes
to market. So, you know, Iinvested a lot into this, and I
was willing to kind of roll thedice, but you just don't know.
And I was, I was okay with that,like, I was like, Okay, I've,
(17:58):
I've done it. And, you know, Ican, you know, I can say I've
done it, and it just started tosell. And we only market it to
US and Canada, and we ended upselling it at last count, over
50 countries. Oh, wow, to, Imean, like all over the world,
from, you know, Poland, SouthAfrica. I mean, basically any we
allow shipping at the time, forreally, any country that were
(18:21):
sex was gay, sex was legal, andsex choice were legal. And that
was really more just of asetting that, you know, that we,
you know, we were reallythinking, Okay, well, this is,
you know, it's going to be USCanada, because that's where
we're marketing, and we hadsales everywhere. So that was
wonderful. And as the commentsstarted rolling in, we learned
(18:44):
that my experience was notunusual. Lots of you know, I,
I'm a gay guy, so I, you know, Ithink as a gay guy, but lots of
gay guys and trans people hadchallenges with an*l s*x, and I
heard from customers that said,I've been looking for something
like this. I've been wantingsomething like this. And I think
the most, I mean, we have had alot of challenges with this
(19:08):
business, but one of ourcustomers early on said, You
saved our marriage, and that wasso extremely meaningful and
motivating for us. And you know,it doesn't have to say from your
marriage. It could just be a funtoy to use, but for some people,
it is a meaningful, lifechanging product.
JOE KORT (19:26):
Oh, I think that's huge. When people tell me about,
you know, the coining the termside and how that changed their
life. It's very it never gets, Inever get used to it. It's very
emotional. It must be for you too.
Justin Depow (19:36):
It is. It absolutely is.
JOE KORT (19:38):
What were some of the challenges you've had as it was launched.
Justin Depow (19:41):
So I would say the biggest ongoing challenge that
surprised me, especially since Idon't know, I just feel like,
you know, in US and Canada,things have become, you know,
the. There's a much, much morewidespread, I think, mainstream
acceptance, and we have had somany barriers thrown up because
we're in the s*x toy businessand things that I never
(20:04):
expected, just as an example,and I'm really like, I'm really
proud of this product. My familyhas seen it. You know, my mom
has seen my website. Like, Ithink we did a really good job
of kind of balancing somethingthat was obviously playful and
it's a s*x toy. It is what itis. But, you know, we really
(20:24):
tried to come up with somethingthat wasn't too explicit, so
that we would avoid what I hadanticipated as, you know, some
barriers, but they kept cominganyway. And it you could say,
Well, is it because the name ofthe product is c*ck block,
partly, but even without peopleknowing the name, I applied for
(20:45):
a small business loan, the bankcalled me back and said, Well,
we could send it downtown, butthey might actually cancel all
your accounts when they find outwhat you do and that. And I, you
know, there's our firstwarehouse. So in E commerce
businesses, usually you have acontract with what they call a
(21:05):
three pl where they store theproduct. When you get an order,
they pick and pack and ship it.
It was hard to find one thatwould store our product, and
when we found one, they ended upripping up our contract because
a big box store had a moralitythey got a contract with a big
box store, and they had amorality clause. They weren't
(21:25):
even willing to stock ourproduct in a back room,
somewhere Alongside this, thisother, other big box brand. And
probably the biggest issue, Imean, we kind of were able to
work around all that. But a lotof, like, you know, existential
business risk. You know, earlyon, but even just three weeks
ago, we, you know, a lot of Ecommerce businesses use Google
(21:49):
ads, and we were, our accountwas shut down again and again,
our website, I feel like isabout as as non explicit as you
can get for a gay sex toy, andthey classify us so there's
different categories of content.
They ended up classifying ourcontent in the same category as
(22:09):
the most extreme Internetcontent that you can imagine.
And it's kind of, you know,it's, sometimes it can be soul
destroying. You're like, oh my,you know, we're getting
traction. You know, people aresearching for this product, and
then overnight, it shut down.
So, you know, I mentioned, to behonest, we're not even really
sure why, because you can neverget to a human everything's run
(22:32):
by these algorithms now. Soyou're like, is it the word is
it c*ck block? Is it because,you know, there's our logo. I
feel like this is about as, youknow, G rated as you can get
for, you know, a two D*ck logo.
But is it the logo? Is itbecause we have a guy with his
shirt off, you know, like, like,you know, honestly, we have, I
(22:56):
don't know what it is. It couldbe any of those things we just
don't know.
JOE KORT (23:01):
You know, what's really irritating is so you
know, I'm a s*x therapist, and Ipromote and on my social media a
lot of s*x therapy stuff. If Italk about s*xual trauma, s*xual
compulsivity, s*xual, you know,disorders, I can even get it
boosted and advertise it. But ifI say sexual pleasure, s*xual,
fun, s*x positive. I can't getit out there. They'll take it
(23:23):
down. They'll warn me it's it'sreally, really crazy. People are
more comfortable when it's adisorder and something
problematic than when it's justsomething for fun and pleasure.
When it comes to s*x.
Justin Depow (23:35):
it's wild. It's wild in like 2026, we're still
dealing with this, and itreally, it really upsets me,
because I feel so strongly thatour product helps the queer
community, and the idea thatthis was so frustrating, you
have the bank that I'm referringto, I won't name it, you know,
every pride they're covered inrainbows and Okay, so you're not
(23:57):
going to support me when I'mactually doing something, you
know, that has to do with gays*x. So it just
JOE KORT (24:03):
The gay. The gay community doesn't support it?
Justin Depow (24:06):
No, the bank
JOE KORT (24:07):
Oh the bank, right.
Justin Depow (24:08):
That, you know, covers itself from rainbow
flags, every prize, Oh, yeah. Ijust feel it's so hypocritical
that you know you're you'regreat, as long as we don't talk
about, you know, what makespeople you know queer, which is,
you know, their their s*xualpreferences and identity. So it
just, I have found it shockingand sometimes really
(24:28):
disheartening, but we just keepgoing. We just try to find other
ways of pushing through andreaching our audience.
JOE KORT (24:35):
That's the thing. You just got to keep going, keep
doing this. You know, what doyou hope as you keep doing this,
that c*ck block does to changethe culture.
Justin Depow (24:43):
You know, I think, I mean, I think the culture is
changing. Like you mentioned,sides. And it's funny, I had
never heard this the term sidesbefore we started to prepare for
our launch, and it was myassociate, Philip, who ran over
to me one day, is like, thesides, those are going to be our
people. And I. So even I amlearning about s*xual diversity
(25:05):
within the queer community. Soobviously, it's not just for
size. As I mentioned, two topsbottom who doesn't want to
prepare, someone who just wantssome, you know, something,
something different. We evenhave some straight customers,
believe it or not. And I thinkwhat I'm hoping is that c*ck
block becomes part ofrecognizing that penetration
(25:27):
isn't the only type of s*xnecessarily. You know, there are
other forms of intimacy that canbe just as satisfying as as as
penetration, and it's that'sokay. There's a lot of different
ways of having satisfyingintimacy with a partner, and you
need to do what's right for you.
And you know, have great I mean,this is your this is your world.
You know, communication andthere's, there's, there are ways
(25:50):
to, I guess, respect your owndesires and your own bodies and
be able to do that with somebodyelse in an intimate way.
JOE KORT (26:00):
And what I love is that you're supporting what I
promote, which is outer, course,in addition to intercourse or
instead of intercourse. Andpeople their minds blow, even
gay guys who engage with a lotof outer cores and and the
intercourse isn't always whatevery gay guy does. And they're
like, What do you mean? Like,what else is there? You know?
Like, you're constantly havingto describe you, so you're
(26:21):
fighting against that too, likeI am.
Justin Depow (26:23):
And it's so interesting. So we started doing
like shows, like I'm sure you'veheard of IML International, Mr.
Leather, which is wonderfulbecause we went to that. That
was our first kind ofenvironment where we could start
interacting with customers andpotential customers, and parts
of the community you know, themembers of the community about
our product specifically. And itwas so fascinating, because I
(26:46):
would say, I don't know what thestats would be, but there seemed
to be, like, a bunch of peoplethat got it immediately they saw
their product. They're like,here it is. Finally, take my
money and but there was a prettyI guess there was a larger
amount of people at that showwho just couldn't figure it out.
Like, what do you mean? Why isthere a hole in the back as well
(27:07):
as two holes in the front? Andwhat do you I don't get it. And
it was actually reallyfascinating that for at least
some members of the queercommunity, the idea of this
outer course is so foreign, yes.
And we actually had one guy say,well, that's not real s*x. And
it was fascinating. And, youknow, we weren't, it wasn't
like, a better being offended oranything. Was just like, wow. We
(27:27):
really have to spend more timeand effort on education and
hearing about what, you know,what are people's preconceived
notions about what's possiblefor them? Yeah, just like for
me, I didn't know what to dobecause, you know, my medical
issues and challenges with s*x,I just felt cornered. And
there's so many avenues forpeople once they kind of open
(27:47):
their minds to the possibilities.
JOE KORT (27:51):
And the guy that you said that's not real s*x, I know
that guy, and when I say that, Imean that. I get that all the
time from all types of differentguys who say it's not real s*x,
it's immature, it's this, it'sthat. And then if they say,
okay, maybe from a medicaldisorder, then then it's okay,
but if you desire it, and that'swhat you prefer, and it's just
not related to somethingmedical, then then it's even worse.
Justin Depow (28:13):
And so we actually do. I love doing consumer
surveys. I love talking to ourcustomers. I love trying to
learn what's working, what's notworking. So we started asking,
you know, from our customerbase, like, how many of you
consider yourself sides? And itwas, it was about 12% which I
felt like was a pretty sizablenumber for something now we're
probably attracting sides, youknow. So we're probably
(28:34):
overrepresented. But the sametime, I just found that really
fasting and encouraging, thatthis whole top bottom, you know,
either or black and white kindof this binary dichotomy. It
doesn't have to be that way,right? I think people are
starting to realize that.
JOE KORT (28:48):
that, yeah, in my generation, it wasn't that way.
And I'm 60, I'm about to be 63in the younger generation, it's
gotten so much more, bet, youknow, rigid about stuff like
that.
Justin Depow (28:58):
I think you're right. And I think we actually
picked up on that some of themore, I guess, critical or
confused comments seem to bemore, I'm not gonna say all, but
seem to be more from an oldercrowd. The younger generations
did seem to kind of get a littlebit faster, except for one guy.
There was one young guy who cameby, and he was really upset. He
(29:22):
said, that's trying to replaceme, and I don't like it. And I'm
like, No, we're not trying toreplace anybody. This is, you
know, meant to replace what youlike to do. So other than him,
it did seem to be, were theolder types?
JOE KORT (29:37):
Yeah. Okay. So then one more question would be,
what's next? What do you have inyour mind to do next?
Justin Depow (29:43):
So what we're really focused on? So as I
mentioned, one of the bigchallenges was, how do you
design a product for two c*cks?
And what we've learned since is,in addition to being able to
have something that can be, youknow, as I mentioned, can you be
either squeezed or expanded?
Something that's really quite,you know, can kind of
accommodate most size c*cks.
What we are learning is there'sstill a lot of a range of kind
(30:06):
of sensations that that, thatthat people want. So for
example, when we the initialc*ck block, the one that that we
launched the inside sleeve, wasvery purposely not overly
textured, because we wanted thetwo partners to be able to kind
of focus on the sensations oftheir cocks roaming against each
other. And while that has been asuccess, we do hear from
(30:27):
customers saying, No, I wantsomething that has more texture,
more sensation. So about a yearago, actually about eight
months, eight to 10 months ago,we launched new sleeves that
provide different textures. So,I mean, you can pull the sleeve
in and out. We're almost tryingto build cock block to be not
just a product but a systemwhere you can, you know,
(30:48):
basically build it the way thatbest suits you and your partner.
So LA, as I mentioned, 810,months ago, we launched these
new sleeve textures, and we'rereally excited. So last year was
like the the year of the sleevesfor us, and this is the year of
the cases for us, because wethrough the feedback. So I
mentioned that it isn't astroker, but we did hear from
(31:09):
people that said, I'd like amore stroking experience. I want
to be able to stroke it up anddown me and my partner. I like
how it feels, like how it looks.
So we're in about two, threeweeks, we're launching what
we're calling c*ck block stroke,which is a rounder form factor.
You know, it's more handheldc*ck block original, which we're
(31:31):
going to rename c*ck blockthrust. It's heavy by design.
It's meant to be something thatyou can kind of thrust in and
out of mostly hands free. Soobviously, that one will still
be the original, and we'll stillcontinue to sell that, but soon
we're going to have cock blockthrust, which is lighter, more
handheld, and then, I'm notquite sure yet, because we're
(31:52):
still in the prototyping phase,but we're going to launch, who
knows what that final name willbe, probably c*ck block buzz
that has vibration. That was oneof the big requests. You want
something that vibrates and thatinduced a whole bunch of other
engineering challenges. Youknow, you have to fit two c*cks
from there. How you gonna fitmotors, things in there as well,
(32:14):
right? So that's what we'reworking on, and that's this
year's plan. But I think if Ihad to pull back, how can we
give a frot, enhanced experienceto everybody, regardless of what
kind of sensations and formfactors and positions they use.
Yeah, so that's really wherewe're pointed, is being kind of
the you come to us for frot.
JOE KORT (32:34):
And finally, what is the message and the takeaway you
want your mind listeners to hearabout your product?
Justin Depow (32:40):
Well, I think, I think the message is, you don't
always, you know, you don'talways have to have anal to have
a satisfying, intimate face toface sexual experience. And
that's also one of the things Idon't know if I mentioned that
was really important to buildc*ck block. I wanted something
face to face. I mean, you dohave alternatives with oral but
(33:01):
that's kind of like taking turnsand mutual masturbation, but it
can get a little bitpositionally awkward. So the
real goal here was a face toface kind of penetrative
experience that isn't analbecause it's okay. Anal isn't
always convenient. It's notalways spontaneous, and for
medical reasons or others. It'snot always in the cards for some
(33:21):
people, and that's fine. Thereare, there are other ways to
have really satisfying s*x withyour partner, and c*ck lock can
be part of that repertoire,
JOE KORT (33:30):
Which I love your message, because that's my
message too. Of course. Wherecan people find you?
Justin Depow (33:35):
Well, if you want to go to our so c*ck block toys
is our main URL. But as Imentioned, we are having some
issues around marketing, andwe're not even really sure if
the word's c*ck, but we're goingto be launching, we actually
have launched, it's gonna be anew umbrella brand, so I'm
announcing it here. Firstwww.swordplay.com, S, W, O, R,
(33:56):
D, P, l, A, Y, and that's goingto become, we're going to
become, we're going totransition to that as our kind
of, our home brand, with c*ckblock as our kind of sub brand,
our main product, but thenpossibly other products down the
road that meet some of more ofthose other kind of use cases
and positions. So stay tuned.
We're so excited to have lots inthe pipeline.
JOE KORT (34:18):
Yeah, it's great, it's, it's, and it's so great.
You're so open minded. It'sexpanding and changing, and
you're adapting, and it's goingto become a better and better
product, and the fact that italready is so thank you so much.
Justin for coming on my podcast.
Justin Depow (34:30):
Thank you so much.
It was an honor to speak withyou. I really enjoyed it.
JOE KORT (34:34):
Thank you so much. All right, so those of you that
follow me, you can listen tothis podcast on
www.smartsexsmartlove.com, it'llbe also on my website, Joe
court, J, O, E, K O, R T .com,and then wherever else, you can
listen to podcast Apple Spotify,and you can find me on many of
(34:56):
the platforms, TikTok,Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook,
and all of my names are. At@DrJoeKort, D, R, J, O, E, K, O,
R, T. I hope you enjoyed thissmart sex, smart love podcast
today and stay healthy and staysafe and see you next time.
Welcome everyone to smart sex, smart love, where
(00:03):
talking about s*x goes beyondthe taboo and talking about love
goes beyond the honeymoon. Myguest today is Justin Depow.
Justin is the inventor of c*ckblock, the first s*x tech
product designed specificallyfor fraud. He left a senior
corporate position to dedicatehis time to this proudly gay
owned and operated business thatcreates products which cater to
(00:25):
the unique needs of the LGBTQplus community. After struggling
with penetrative sex due to anundiagnosed medical condition,
Justin began questioning whyintimacy was so narrowly
defined, and why no productexisted for alternatives what
started as a personal needbecame a decade long journey of
design, prototyping andpersistence to create something
(00:47):
entirely new. Justin's workfocuses on expanding how we
think about intimacy, pleasureand inclusion in the sexual
wellness industry today, Justinis going to talk about his
invention, how he got involvedin it and the challenges he has
faced, and what is next for himand his company. Welcome Justin,
Justin Depow (01:06):
thank you so much, Joe. I'm so happy to be here.
JOE KORT (01:09):
I'm so happy to have you here, too. And before we
start, I figured if we couldhave you define for the
audience, so that they know whatfrot means, F, R, O, T
Justin Depow (01:18):
Sure. Well, first of all, I want to thank you.
This is my very first podcast.
So this is a great, veryexciting day for me and for my
business. I kind of feel likeI'm coming out for the second
time, or this is the completionof that journey. You know,
leaving my professional careerto, you know, to head a gay s*x
toy business is certainly arisk, and it took me, took me
(01:40):
quite a while to fully embraceit. I think I was kind of in
shock when I left the corporateworld. And then over time, I
slowly started putting, youknow, attaching my name to this
business, and this is my firstpodcast, so I I'm fully
embracing it, because I willlive on the internet, forever in
video form. So thank you somuch. It's an honor to be here
(02:02):
talking to you.
JOE KORT (02:05):
Oh, I'm honored that I'm going to be your first
Justin Depow (02:09):
I've lost my podcast virginity with you.
Thank you.
JOE KORT (02:11):
You're welcome. Yeah.
So and you're also going to beassociated with frot, obviously.
So maybe we can tell audienceswhat that means,
Justin Depow (02:19):
Absolutely. So I mean, fraud is pretty
straightforward. It's rubbingtwo two penises together to c*ck
together, as I would say, inpart of the, you know, c*ck
block world. And you know, it'sbetween any two gay guys or any
other penis havers, such as inthe trans community. And, you
(02:39):
know, some curious or straightguys, depending on how people
identify, and it's mostly at thepoint of the frenulum. So the
frenulum is that part of themale anatomy, kind of on the
underside of the glands thattends to be really sensitive. So
you know, whether or not you'recut or uncut. You know, rubbing
(03:01):
one penis against another inthat position is really
pleasurable and intimate. So Iwould, you know, define fraught
as the rubbing of two c*cks the,you know, not everyone knows
that term, but that is, youknow, a lot of people are kind
of familiar with with the act.
JOE KORT (03:21):
I'll tell you sides know what frot is. So I knew the
term. I guess I knew it as a s*xtherapist, but I didn't. We
didn't really talk a lot aboutit. I didn't learn a lot about
it. And when I started, we havea side Facebook group of about
9000 men across the world, andthey're all, they're always
posting about fraud. And am Isaying it wrong? Is it frot or fraught?
Justin Depow (03:41):
I say fraught.
JOE KORT (03:42):
Yeah, I like the way you say better, actually. And
thank you for explaining it. Andnow maybe you could tell us how
c*ck block what it is and whatit's for
Justin Depow (03:52):
Sure, c*ck block is the world's first and only
s*x toy or s*x product that wasthat combines the sensations of
both frot and penetration. So asI mentioned, for any two penis
havers and the way it'sdesigned, the it's made of two
parts. There's an internalsleeve that's soft and
comfortable to penetrate. But,and I have one right here. I
(04:16):
know some of your customers arelistening into audio, so I'll
try to explain this, you know,throughout, you know, verbally,
but it actually has two holes.
And the reason it has two holesis it gives each partner that
feeling of penetration, and thenon the inside, when you go
further, kind of down theproduct. Right about here, the
(04:37):
two holes merge into onechannel. So the two separate
holes give that feeling ofpenetration, and then when you
come into the channel, the c*cksactually touch skin on skin, and
provides that that frotexperience. The reason we it's
two parts is the outside part.
(04:58):
Again, or the inside part isit's softer, it's really
comfortable to penetrate, andthen the outside is made out of
silicone, and that gives afeeling kind of a compression
and tightness. But what's reallyimportant is that the reason we
chose silicone is you cansqueeze it if you tend to want,
(05:18):
if tend to be a little bit lessgirthy and you want a little bit
more pressure, plus it has somestretch. So if you happen to be
girthier, it can accommodatemost size c*cks.
JOE KORT (05:31):
I love the respect you're giving to talking about
penis size and girth and allthat, because I think a lot of
people would look at that maybewho feel like maybe they
couldn't fit, or they would fit,but it wouldn't be, you know,
big enough, or whatever, like,have you had people have
concerns about any of that?
Justin Depow (05:47):
So yes, in fact, that's one of the common
questions we get, is this going,you know, is this going to fit
me? And you know, to be honest,that was probably the most
foundational challenge ofdesigning this product. You
know, penises come in everyshape and size. And how do you
one of the challenges was, howdo we create a product that can
(06:10):
accommodate all shapes andsizes? And, you know, as part of
designing, you know, the initialprototypes and trying to figure
out, you know, how to do this. Imean, I looked at biology
textbooks, anatomy textbooks,like I literally was looking at,
what are the numbers, what arethe ranges? And that actually
(06:30):
made it more alarming, becausethen I learned that, wow,
there's, you know, this is ahuman organ that has huge
variance. And the challenge was,how do you build a product for
two and that's one of thereasons why this was designed
the way it was, and that outsidesilicone part was really key and
a big differentiator for thesetype of products.
JOE KORT (06:53):
Wow, a lot went into doing this, like what led you to
invent this?
Justin Depow (06:58):
So when I first came out, I'm gonna be honest, I
thought that was the hard part,and it certainly was. But I
thought, Okay, this is behind menow. You know it's gonna be, you
know, easier from here on in.
And the truth was, it wasn't forme. One of my first s*xual
experiences was with someone whowanted to top and I just found,
(07:19):
I just found bottoming really,really difficult, and that
continued to be a challenge forme for many years. And I thought
something was wrong with me. Ifelt like I didn't really fit
in. It sort of became a, kind ofan ongoing anxiety about, you
know, if I'm with somebody, arethey, you know, what are they?
(07:41):
You know, the whole top versusbottom, where, you know, is this
going to work? And it went onfor a long time, and I didn't
realize that I had anundiagnosed medical condition,
and it took almost two decadesfor me to be properly diagnosed,
and it's called pelvic floordysfunction. It, you know, a way
(08:02):
to explain it, I think, is, youknow, some people carry tension
maybe in their neck and they getheadaches. You know, some people
might carry tension in theirbacks. They might get back
aches. Some people hold tensionin their pelvic floor. And what
happens is that, over time,things get tighter and tighter,
(08:24):
but not in the good way. It'snot the good tightness, it's a
bad tightness, and for both maleand females, that can lead to a
lot of problems s*xually and inother parts of one's health. So
the the symptoms overlap a lotwith prostatitis in men. So for
decades, I was on antibioticsbecause urologist thought I had
(08:46):
chronic prostatitis, wow. And Iused to travel a lot for work,
and I just got really lucky. Igot a job in Chicago. I had a
new urologist who happened to bemarried to one of the few
physical therapists in the USthat specializes in pelvic floor
dysfunction. Oh my gosh. And bypure chance, he said, You know
(09:08):
what, I'm happy to fill yourprescription, but I want you to
see my wife first. And he sentme over, and it changed my life.
JOE KORT (09:19):
Wow, that is incredible. I am so happy you're
sharing that story as a man,because we usually hear about
that from women, about women,but not from men.
Justin Depow (09:28):
It's true, and it's funny, because I remember
waiting in her waiting room, andshe comes out. First of all, I
wasn't what I was expecting. Shewas she was really beautiful,
like full makeup and hair. And Iremember thinking, Oh, Who is
this lady? And she invites meinto her office, and she said,
after about 20 minutes, becauseshe had to do some testing to
(09:51):
find out what was going on, andshe said, I pretty much knew
when I saw you, because everytime I see a young guy in my
what. Room. It's always pelvicfloor issues, wow. And it
started out specifically dealingwith, you know, my medical
symptoms. And it was only afterI left I started thinking about,
I'm like, Maybe she can help mewith my s*xual issues. And I had
(10:14):
to really build up a lot ofcourage for my second
appointment to ask her, Listen,I know we're here to deal with,
you know, these, you know, youknow these symptoms, but can you
help me with s*x? And she said,and I was actually really, I
almost, you know, I got reallyemotional because I didn't
realize how much was sort ofpent up inside me in terms of
(10:36):
the stress of it. And she was,she was amazing. She's like,
Absolutely. She said, this ispart of what I do. She said, I
deal with trans people after,you know, post op, who are
learning how to use, you know,their new anatomy. She said
this. She said, I'm here foryou. And she literally changed
my life. And it was anincredible experience, and so
(10:58):
freeing. But even after that,even after I had gone through,
you know, treatment, I stillrealized that, you know,
bottoming isn't alwaysspontaneous. It takes a lot of,
you know, a lot of people wantto take a lot of effort and
planning, because there's a lotof concerns around hygiene, and
sometimes you just want to spicethings off and do something a
(11:20):
little different. So even after,I mean, those medical issues got
me that's what got me thinking,How do I solve this? Because my
professional background isproduct management, I tend to
see problems as a product in thewaiting. So I couldn't help but
think, how am I going to solvethis? And that's when I started
thinking about, you know, beforemy diagnosis, what can I do?
(11:43):
What kind of product couldreally help? And I actually went
to some adult toy stores lookingfor a product like mine, and I
was shocked that it didn't exist.
JO (11:54):
How long ago was that again?
Justin Depow (11:56):
So that was about, let's see. So I would say that
was about 50, about 15 to 20,actually, about 20 years ago
now, because it took me around alittle bit over 10, actually
about 15 years. It took me about10 years to come up with the
concept slowly work onprototypes. I used to build the
prototypes in my on my kitchenfloor, you know, you know, after
(12:19):
work, I would kind of work on itas a hobby. So it was kind of
like a hobby for over a decade.
And sort of think about like,you know, what would solve this?
What is the right design, whatare the right materials, how do
they need to come together tomake a pleasurable experience
that that fits most size c*cks,yeah. And then after about five
(12:39):
years ago, end up, you know,launching, I have an associate,
Philip, the two of us launchedthe store. And then I left my
day job about two and a halfyears ago to focus on this full time.
JOE KORT (12:53):
It's really very, very interesting. A lot of people,
it's a big risk, right? A lot ofpeople like even going when I
was in a early young therapist.
I went from agency work toprivate practice. It's, it's a
huge leap, and you have to trustthem and know that if it doesn't
work out, you went for yourdream, and it does. When it does
work out, it's even better.
Justin Depow (13:11):
Yeah. I mean, it is a huge risk. And, you know,
when you talk to entrepreneurs,you know, with any type of
product, they all say that thesame thing that, you know, like,
I threw everything into this,you know, I invested my money,
my time, my resources, into thiskind of dream of solving this
problem, really for myself andthen for others. And yeah, it
(13:32):
was risky, and I was stillworking for about two years
after I launched, and it reallygot to the point where I just
couldn't focus on two things. Icouldn't pretend that I could
throw myself into my corporateday job and also work, you know,
every other you know, weekendand evening on this and I
started, actually, I remember, Iknew it was time to leave, and
(13:53):
during one of my corporatemeetings, I accidentally refer,
I didn't say c*ck block, but Ireferred to something, cock
block adjacent. I can't, I thinkwas a piece of software we're
using for something. I was like,I can't keep these worlds
separate any longer.
JOE KORT (14:09):
It's funny. Now, you almost didn't, you almost gave
up. It's I read. Tell me whythat almost happened.
Justin Depow (14:16):
So, I mean, there was, there was a quite a few
things that happen. I'll tellyou, you know, you know, maybe,
I guess a couple things tomention. One was getting this
thing manufactured. It wasreally difficult, and it seems
so simple, especially when you,you know, when you get it and
you hold it, you're like, Okay,this is, you know, the inside is
(14:39):
made out of a TPE material thathas a certain softness. The
outside shell is made ofsilicone that has a certain kind
of elasticity and softness.
What's the big deal? And the bigdeal was I really knew my mind
what I wanted, and themanufacturers I was working with
really were thinking of this asa two hold stroker. So. So solo
male masturbators are a reallybig seller in the s*x toy world,
(15:02):
and there's a lot of them. Sowhat happened was the I kept
getting basically versions oftwo hold strokers. So they're
designed very differently,because they're only for one
penis. So an example is solostrokers usually have a hard
plastic shell because you'reholding on to it. It's not
really meant to do anythingother than contain the soft
(15:25):
sleeve and enable you to kind ofstroke yourself with it. But as
I mentioned, this isn't for onepenis. This is for two that come
in every shape and size. So theoutside silicone shell had to be
soft enough to be comfortableagainst bodies. It couldn't be a
hard plastic. It had to besqueezable, but it also had to
(15:45):
contain things. So there was areal balance in terms of
softness, elasticity, comfort,stretch. And I just, I kept
doing prototype after prototypefrom suppliers that completely
missed the mark, and this wenton for well over a year. Same
thing with the inner sleeve it.
I didn't want it as soft as astroker, because that's really
(16:09):
intended to replicate anatomy.
C*ck block isn't meant toreplicate anatomy. It's kind of
like a c*ck adapter where onecock can have s*x with another
c*ck. So the sleeve had to havea little bit more structure to
kind of help keep thingspositioned. It was really
important that the c*ck staycock aligned, if you will. And
so it was just frustrating. Itfelt like it kept going forever,
(16:32):
and I kept on getting differentmaterials, and just nothing
seemed to work. So I ended uphaving to go there. So
obviously, a lot of suppliers inthe adult toy industry are in
China at my kind of, wait,that's a whole other
conversation. Like, why aren'tyou making it North America or
the US? I wanted to, couldn'tfind anyone to do it, and so I
(16:54):
ended up going, you know, toChina, and getting it over the
finish line.
JOE KORT (17:01):
I'm glad you mentioned that, because people probably do
would wonder about that. Andthere are you must you have your
own reason, which would be inmaybe another podcast or behind
the scenes.
Justin Depow (17:09):
Absolutely, it might be back. I could talk at
length of any of these topics.
You know, it's fascinating howthe industry works, and it's
fascinating how the supply chainworks, and, yeah, the only way I
could get this made at thisstage, although I'm always
looking for, you know, optionswas to have this made in what is
really the s*x toy capital ofthe world. Shenzhen.
JOE KORT (17:29):
Oh, wow. What reaction surprised you when this was
launched.
Justin Depow (17:35):
So when we finally launched, the surprise was a
good one. You know, with myproduct background, you really
never know if a product is goingto be successful until it goes
to market. So, you know, Iinvested a lot into this, and I
was willing to kind of roll thedice, but you just don't know.
And I was, I was okay with that,like, I was like, Okay, I've,
(17:58):
I've done it. And, you know, Ican, you know, I can say I've
done it, and it just started tosell. And we only market it to
US and Canada, and we ended upselling it at last count, over
50 countries. Oh, wow, to, Imean, like all over the world,
from, you know, Poland, SouthAfrica. I mean, basically any we
allow shipping at the time, forreally, any country that were
(18:21):
sex was gay, sex was legal, andsex choice were legal. And that
was really more just of asetting that, you know, that we,
you know, we were reallythinking, Okay, well, this is,
you know, it's going to be USCanada, because that's where
we're marketing, and we hadsales everywhere. So that was
wonderful. And as the commentsstarted rolling in, we learned
(18:44):
that my experience was notunusual. Lots of you know, I,
I'm a gay guy, so I, you know, Ithink as a gay guy, but lots of
gay guys and trans people hadchallenges with an*l s*x, and I
heard from customers that said,I've been looking for something
like this. I've been wantingsomething like this. And I think
the most, I mean, we have had alot of challenges with this
(19:08):
business, but one of ourcustomers early on said, You
saved our marriage, and that wasso extremely meaningful and
motivating for us. And you know,it doesn't have to say from your
marriage. It could just be a funtoy to use, but for some people,
it is a meaningful, lifechanging product.
JOE KORT (19:26):
Oh, I think that's huge. When people tell me about,
you know, the coining the termside and how that changed their
life. It's very it never gets, Inever get used to it. It's very
emotional. It must be for you too.
Justin Depow (19:36):
It is. It absolutely is.
JOE KORT (19:38):
What were some of the challenges you've had as it was launched.
Justin Depow (19:41):
So I would say the biggest ongoing challenge that
surprised me, especially since Idon't know, I just feel like,
you know, in US and Canada,things have become, you know,
the. There's a much, much morewidespread, I think, mainstream
acceptance, and we have had somany barriers thrown up because
we're in the s*x toy businessand things that I never
(20:04):
expected, just as an example,and I'm really like, I'm really
proud of this product. My familyhas seen it. You know, my mom
has seen my website. Like, Ithink we did a really good job
of kind of balancing somethingthat was obviously playful and
it's a s*x toy. It is what itis. But, you know, we really
(20:24):
tried to come up with somethingthat wasn't too explicit, so
that we would avoid what I hadanticipated as, you know, some
barriers, but they kept cominganyway. And it you could say,
Well, is it because the name ofthe product is c*ck block,
partly, but even without peopleknowing the name, I applied for
(20:45):
a small business loan, the bankcalled me back and said, Well,
we could send it downtown, butthey might actually cancel all
your accounts when they find outwhat you do and that. And I, you
know, there's our firstwarehouse. So in E commerce
businesses, usually you have acontract with what they call a
(21:05):
three pl where they store theproduct. When you get an order,
they pick and pack and ship it.
It was hard to find one thatwould store our product, and
when we found one, they ended upripping up our contract because
a big box store had a moralitythey got a contract with a big
box store, and they had amorality clause. They weren't
(21:25):
even willing to stock ourproduct in a back room,
somewhere Alongside this, thisother, other big box brand. And
probably the biggest issue, Imean, we kind of were able to
work around all that. But a lotof, like, you know, existential
business risk. You know, earlyon, but even just three weeks
ago, we, you know, a lot of Ecommerce businesses use Google
(21:49):
ads, and we were, our accountwas shut down again and again,
our website, I feel like isabout as as non explicit as you
can get for a gay sex toy, andthey classify us so there's
different categories of content.
They ended up classifying ourcontent in the same category as
(22:09):
the most extreme Internetcontent that you can imagine.
And it's kind of, you know,it's, sometimes it can be soul
destroying. You're like, oh my,you know, we're getting
traction. You know, people aresearching for this product, and
then overnight, it shut down.
So, you know, I mentioned, to behonest, we're not even really
sure why, because you can neverget to a human everything's run
(22:32):
by these algorithms now. Soyou're like, is it the word is
it c*ck block? Is it because,you know, there's our logo. I
feel like this is about as, youknow, G rated as you can get
for, you know, a two D*ck logo.
But is it the logo? Is itbecause we have a guy with his
shirt off, you know, like, like,you know, honestly, we have, I
(22:56):
don't know what it is. It couldbe any of those things we just
don't know.
JOE KORT (23:01):
You know, what's really irritating is so you
know, I'm a s*x therapist, and Ipromote and on my social media a
lot of s*x therapy stuff. If Italk about s*xual trauma, s*xual
compulsivity, s*xual, you know,disorders, I can even get it
boosted and advertise it. But ifI say sexual pleasure, s*xual,
fun, s*x positive. I can't getit out there. They'll take it
(23:23):
down. They'll warn me it's it'sreally, really crazy. People are
more comfortable when it's adisorder and something
problematic than when it's justsomething for fun and pleasure.
When it comes to s*x.
Justin Depow (23:35):
it's wild. It's wild in like 2026, we're still
dealing with this, and itreally, it really upsets me,
because I feel so strongly thatour product helps the queer
community, and the idea thatthis was so frustrating, you
have the bank that I'm referringto, I won't name it, you know,
every pride they're covered inrainbows and Okay, so you're not
(23:57):
going to support me when I'mactually doing something, you
know, that has to do with gays*x. So it just
JOE KORT (24:03):
The gay. The gay community doesn't support it?
Justin Depow (24:06):
No, the bank
JOE KORT (24:07):
Oh the bank, right.
Justin Depow (24:08):
That, you know, covers itself from rainbow
flags, every prize, Oh, yeah. Ijust feel it's so hypocritical
that you know you're you'regreat, as long as we don't talk
about, you know, what makespeople you know queer, which is,
you know, their their s*xualpreferences and identity. So it
just, I have found it shockingand sometimes really
(24:28):
disheartening, but we just keepgoing. We just try to find other
ways of pushing through andreaching our audience.
JOE KORT (24:35):
That's the thing. You just got to keep going, keep
doing this. You know, what doyou hope as you keep doing this,
that c*ck block does to changethe culture.
Justin Depow (24:43):
You know, I think, I mean, I think the culture is
changing. Like you mentioned,sides. And it's funny, I had
never heard this the term sidesbefore we started to prepare for
our launch, and it was myassociate, Philip, who ran over
to me one day, is like, thesides, those are going to be our
people. And I. So even I amlearning about s*xual diversity
(25:05):
within the queer community. Soobviously, it's not just for
size. As I mentioned, two topsbottom who doesn't want to
prepare, someone who just wantssome, you know, something,
something different. We evenhave some straight customers,
believe it or not. And I thinkwhat I'm hoping is that c*ck
block becomes part ofrecognizing that penetration
(25:27):
isn't the only type of s*xnecessarily. You know, there are
other forms of intimacy that canbe just as satisfying as as as
penetration, and it's that'sokay. There's a lot of different
ways of having satisfyingintimacy with a partner, and you
need to do what's right for you.
And you know, have great I mean,this is your this is your world.
You know, communication andthere's, there's, there are ways
(25:50):
to, I guess, respect your owndesires and your own bodies and
be able to do that with somebodyelse in an intimate way.
JOE KORT (26:00):
And what I love is that you're supporting what I
promote, which is outer, course,in addition to intercourse or
instead of intercourse. Andpeople their minds blow, even
gay guys who engage with a lotof outer cores and and the
intercourse isn't always whatevery gay guy does. And they're
like, What do you mean? Like,what else is there? You know?
Like, you're constantly havingto describe you, so you're
(26:21):
fighting against that too, likeI am.
Justin Depow (26:23):
And it's so interesting. So we started doing
like shows, like I'm sure you'veheard of IML International, Mr.
Leather, which is wonderfulbecause we went to that. That
was our first kind ofenvironment where we could start
interacting with customers andpotential customers, and parts
of the community you know, themembers of the community about
our product specifically. And itwas so fascinating, because I
(26:46):
would say, I don't know what thestats would be, but there seemed
to be, like, a bunch of peoplethat got it immediately they saw
their product. They're like,here it is. Finally, take my
money and but there was a prettyI guess there was a larger
amount of people at that showwho just couldn't figure it out.
Like, what do you mean? Why isthere a hole in the back as well
(27:07):
as two holes in the front? Andwhat do you I don't get it. And
it was actually reallyfascinating that for at least
some members of the queercommunity, the idea of this
outer course is so foreign, yes.
And we actually had one guy say,well, that's not real s*x. And
it was fascinating. And, youknow, we weren't, it wasn't
like, a better being offended oranything. Was just like, wow. We
(27:27):
really have to spend more timeand effort on education and
hearing about what, you know,what are people's preconceived
notions about what's possiblefor them? Yeah, just like for
me, I didn't know what to dobecause, you know, my medical
issues and challenges with s*x,I just felt cornered. And
there's so many avenues forpeople once they kind of open
(27:47):
their minds to the possibilities.
JOE KORT (27:51):
And the guy that you said that's not real s*x, I know
that guy, and when I say that, Imean that. I get that all the
time from all types of differentguys who say it's not real s*x,
it's immature, it's this, it'sthat. And then if they say,
okay, maybe from a medicaldisorder, then then it's okay,
but if you desire it, and that'swhat you prefer, and it's just
not related to somethingmedical, then then it's even worse.
Justin Depow (28:13):
And so we actually do. I love doing consumer
surveys. I love talking to ourcustomers. I love trying to
learn what's working, what's notworking. So we started asking,
you know, from our customerbase, like, how many of you
consider yourself sides? And itwas, it was about 12% which I
felt like was a pretty sizablenumber for something now we're
probably attracting sides, youknow. So we're probably
(28:34):
overrepresented. But the sametime, I just found that really
fasting and encouraging, thatthis whole top bottom, you know,
either or black and white kindof this binary dichotomy. It
doesn't have to be that way,right? I think people are
starting to realize that.
JOE KORT (28:48):
that, yeah, in my generation, it wasn't that way.
And I'm 60, I'm about to be 63in the younger generation, it's
gotten so much more, bet, youknow, rigid about stuff like
that.
Justin Depow (28:58):
I think you're right. And I think we actually
picked up on that some of themore, I guess, critical or
confused comments seem to bemore, I'm not gonna say all, but
seem to be more from an oldercrowd. The younger generations
did seem to kind of get a littlebit faster, except for one guy.
There was one young guy who cameby, and he was really upset. He
(29:22):
said, that's trying to replaceme, and I don't like it. And I'm
like, No, we're not trying toreplace anybody. This is, you
know, meant to replace what youlike to do. So other than him,
it did seem to be, were theolder types?
JOE KORT (29:37):
Yeah. Okay. So then one more question would be,
what's next? What do you have inyour mind to do next?
Justin Depow (29:43):
So what we're really focused on? So as I
mentioned, one of the bigchallenges was, how do you
design a product for two c*cks?
And what we've learned since is,in addition to being able to
have something that can be, youknow, as I mentioned, can you be
either squeezed or expanded?
Something that's really quite,you know, can kind of
accommodate most size c*cks.
What we are learning is there'sstill a lot of a range of kind
(30:06):
of sensations that that, thatthat people want. So for
example, when we the initialc*ck block, the one that that we
launched the inside sleeve, wasvery purposely not overly
textured, because we wanted thetwo partners to be able to kind
of focus on the sensations oftheir cocks roaming against each
other. And while that has been asuccess, we do hear from
(30:27):
customers saying, No, I wantsomething that has more texture,
more sensation. So about a yearago, actually about eight
months, eight to 10 months ago,we launched new sleeves that
provide different textures. So,I mean, you can pull the sleeve
in and out. We're almost tryingto build cock block to be not
just a product but a systemwhere you can, you know,
(30:48):
basically build it the way thatbest suits you and your partner.
So LA, as I mentioned, 810,months ago, we launched these
new sleeve textures, and we'rereally excited. So last year was
like the the year of the sleevesfor us, and this is the year of
the cases for us, because wethrough the feedback. So I
mentioned that it isn't astroker, but we did hear from
(31:09):
people that said, I'd like amore stroking experience. I want
to be able to stroke it up anddown me and my partner. I like
how it feels, like how it looks.
So we're in about two, threeweeks, we're launching what
we're calling c*ck block stroke,which is a rounder form factor.
You know, it's more handheldc*ck block original, which we're
(31:31):
going to rename c*ck blockthrust. It's heavy by design.
It's meant to be something thatyou can kind of thrust in and
out of mostly hands free. Soobviously, that one will still
be the original, and we'll stillcontinue to sell that, but soon
we're going to have cock blockthrust, which is lighter, more
handheld, and then, I'm notquite sure yet, because we're
(31:52):
still in the prototyping phase,but we're going to launch, who
knows what that final name willbe, probably c*ck block buzz
that has vibration. That was oneof the big requests. You want
something that vibrates and thatinduced a whole bunch of other
engineering challenges. Youknow, you have to fit two c*cks
from there. How you gonna fitmotors, things in there as well,
(32:14):
right? So that's what we'reworking on, and that's this
year's plan. But I think if Ihad to pull back, how can we
give a frot, enhanced experienceto everybody, regardless of what
kind of sensations and formfactors and positions they use.
Yeah, so that's really wherewe're pointed, is being kind of
the you come to us for frot.
JOE KORT (32:34):
And finally, what is the message and the takeaway you
want your mind listeners to hearabout your product?
Justin Depow (32:40):
Well, I think, I think the message is, you don't
always, you know, you don'talways have to have anal to have
a satisfying, intimate face toface sexual experience. And
that's also one of the things Idon't know if I mentioned that
was really important to buildc*ck block. I wanted something
face to face. I mean, you dohave alternatives with oral but
(33:01):
that's kind of like taking turnsand mutual masturbation, but it
can get a little bitpositionally awkward. So the
real goal here was a face toface kind of penetrative
experience that isn't analbecause it's okay. Anal isn't
always convenient. It's notalways spontaneous, and for
medical reasons or others. It'snot always in the cards for some
(33:21):
people, and that's fine. Thereare, there are other ways to
have really satisfying s*x withyour partner, and c*ck lock can
be part of that repertoire,
JOE KORT (33:30):
Which I love your message, because that's my
message too. Of course. Wherecan people find you?
Justin Depow (33:35):
Well, if you want to go to our so c*ck block toys
is our main URL. But as Imentioned, we are having some
issues around marketing, andwe're not even really sure if
the word's c*ck, but we're goingto be launching, we actually
have launched, it's gonna be anew umbrella brand, so I'm
announcing it here. Firstwww.swordplay.com, S, W, O, R,
(33:56):
D, P, l, A, Y, and that's goingto become, we're going to
become, we're going totransition to that as our kind
of, our home brand, with c*ckblock as our kind of sub brand,
our main product, but thenpossibly other products down the
road that meet some of more ofthose other kind of use cases
and positions. So stay tuned.
We're so excited to have lots inthe pipeline.
JOE KORT (34:18):
Yeah, it's great, it's, it's, and it's so great.
You're so open minded. It'sexpanding and changing, and
you're adapting, and it's goingto become a better and better
product, and the fact that italready is so thank you so much.
Justin for coming on my podcast.
Justin Depow (34:30):
Thank you so much.
It was an honor to speak withyou. I really enjoyed it.
JOE KORT (34:34):
Thank you so much. All right, so those of you that
follow me, you can listen tothis podcast on
www.smartsexsmartlove.com, it'llbe also on my website, Joe
court, J, O, E, K O, R T .com,and then wherever else, you can
listen to podcast Apple Spotify,and you can find me on many of
(34:56):
the platforms, TikTok,Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook,
and all of my names are. At@DrJoeKort, D, R, J, O, E, K, O,
R, T. I hope you enjoyed thissmart sex, smart love podcast
today and stay healthy and staysafe and see you next time.
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