March 13, 2026 • 29 mins
Jessica Levith is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and certified sex therapist whose work focuses on how life experiences shape sexuality. Trained in attachment focused EMDR and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, she helps clients understand their sexual identities through the lens of personal history, culture, relationships, and emotional development.
In this conversation, Jessica and Dr. Joe Kort explore the idea of sexual contextualism, a framework that looks at sexuality as something shaped by our life experiences rather than something fixed or easily categorized. Jessica introduces the concept of sexual emergence, the moment when someone realizes a new aspect of their sexuality, whether that involves attraction, desire, identity, or erotic interests that were previously unrecognized.
They also discuss how Acceptance and Commitment Therapy can help people relate differently to their sexual thoughts, feelings, and conflicts, especially when desires change or partners discover unexpected aspects of each other’s sexuality. Together they talk about evolving attractions, kink, identity shifts, and why understanding context can help people feel less shame and more curiosity about their sexual development.
Listen to this Smart Sex, Smart Love episode as Dr. Joe Kort talks with Jessica Levith about sexual identity expansion, erotic evolution, and why discovering new parts of your sexuality can be a normal part of being human.
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JOE KORT (00:04):
Welcome everybody to Smart Sex, Smart Love. We're
talking about sex goes beyondthe taboo, and talking about
love goes beyond the honeymoon.
Today, my guest is Jess Levith,a licensed Marriage and Family
Therapist and certified sextherapist, writer and lecturer.
Jess is fully trained inattachment focused EMDR therapy
and Acceptance and Commitmenttheory. Her fields of specialty
(00:25):
include LGBTQIA plus kink,consensual, non monogamy,
women's sexual health andproblematic and out of control
sexual behaviors. In recentyears, she has taken a deep dive
into insight, meditation andmindfulness in psycho
psychotherapy. Today, Jess willbe talking about sexual
(00:46):
contextualism, Acceptance andCommitment Therapy for sexual
identity expansion and what allof this means to us. Welcome
Jess,
JESSICA LEVITH (00:56):
Hi, Joe. Thank you for having me in your space.
JOE KORT (00:59):
Oh, my God, it's great to have you especially, I'm
especially interested in hearingeverything, but especially the
stuff about sexual identityexpansion. I talk about it so
much I'm feel like I'm going tohave a lot to learn from you
today.
JESSICA LEVITH (01:11):
Awesome.
JOE KORT (01:13):
All right. Well, let's start with the first question,
which is the term sexualcontextualism sounds pretty
complex. Can you explain what itmeans in simpler terms and how
it is to fit into our lives.
JESSICA LEVITH (01:23):
Yes, so it is a very fancy way of saying that
when I work with sexual health,I'm looking at people's
histories. I'm looking at thecontext, you know, what are the
lived experiences they've had inthis life, and how does it
impact their sexuality?
JOE KORT (01:42):
All right, like, what kinds of questions would you ask
them to answer in terms of that?
JESSICA LEVITH (01:47):
Well, so that's I would get into what I consider
the sexual context, which is allof us have a different
experience around the world. Inour sexuality has a different
experience, given that we allhave different ways that we
identify in the world, and notjust an orientation, right? We
(02:09):
have a whole social profile andall of these different ways that
we identify our age, race,culture, it all impacts our
sexuality. Our sexuality comesup through that. That is our
sexual context. So our sexualcontext is, how do we see the
world sexually? How does theworld see us or not see us
(02:33):
sexually? And how do we seeourselves sexually? Those, those
are the questions. So anyquestions, kind of probing
around that.
JOE KORT (02:42):
And why would you say it matters sexual context in and
of itself?
JESSICA LEVITH (02:47):
It matters a lot because sexual context is what
both the individual clients andthe therapist can look to for
clues as to what may behappening with someone sexually,
right? So a person, one personwho has a fear of sex, it may be
(03:07):
because they got triggered fromsomething that happened a decade
ago, an assault, whereas anotherperson that has a fear of sex
may actually be afraid of havingpleasure in their body. So it's,
really it's just a reminder thateveryone is so individual.
JOE KORT (03:26):
I love that. Because people don't understand this.
They think that there has to besome general way, and we all
should be a general way. Andyou're saying, No, everybody's
unique in the way that theyexpress this
JESSICA LEVITH (03:35):
Exactly.
JOE KORT (03:36):
And then you say that we're all born with whatever
sexuality we're born with, andthen our sexuality develops
through our soup of lifeexperiences or circumstances.
Will you discuss this?
JESSICA LEVITH (03:46):
Yes, definitely.
So we all are born with atemperament that's well
documented, right, the emotionaltemplate, and it's also been
documented that there areaspects of our sexual
orientation and sexuality thatwe are born with. And so both of
these things come up through ourcontext. Come up through our
(04:09):
soup our life. I call it thegumbo because I'm from New
Orleans, and we they it'sbecause it comes through this
that we come out so individualand so differently. Did I answer
the question?
JOE KORT (04:27):
Yes, it does, actually. Now tell me if you
talk about it this way, Iusually talk about the
difference between sexualorientation and erotic
orientation. Is that what youmean?
JESSICA LEVITH (04:38):
Yes, yes. I mean that just because you have a
particular sexual orientation,that does not equal a very
specific erotic orientation.
JOE KORT (04:52):
I love it. I love it.
We're so aligned. I didn'trealize this until you know,
like we're talking together. Ilove this, all right, another
term not often used that you useis sexual emergence? Will you
explain it and provide someexamples?
JESSICA LEVITH (05:04):
Yes, it's not often used because I made it up
myself.
JOE KORT (05:07):
All right, good, all right.
JESSICA LEVITH (05:11):
So an emergence, is it? It comes out of our
context, right? So an emergenceis when out of either nowhere or
maybe over a period of time, wecome to realize some new aspect
of our sexuality that we justdidn't know about before, right?
And so when I give examples, Istart with my own example, which
(05:35):
was I was in my late 30s and outof nowhere, I realized I, in a
very split moment, was attractedto both women in addition to
men. Right now. This issomething that had been pointed
to me a couple of times, but itjust went like this. I truly had
(05:56):
no connection to it until thisone moment, and so when I became
completely disoriented. I was atherapist, by the way, at this
time, a sex therapist at thistime and when this became, you
know, this blew apart my mind.
And it I had a small baby athome, you know, I was in a
(06:19):
partnership that I'm still inwith, with my partner, who is a
man and and I needed to figureout very quickly how to frame
this. I had, there is no amazingsex education. We have to
patchwork it together ourselvesas adults. And so I'm
(06:39):
patchworking and trying to holdmy family together and and I
wanted to create for someoneelse some kind of framework,
some kind of guidebook for goingthrough sexual exploration and
expansion in a more containedway.
JOE KORT (06:58):
That's so great, because you're right to be
without sex education, it'spatchwork. It's porn work and
not at all dissing porn. Pornhas its place. But without sex
education, it can give us askewed way of looking at things.
It can.
JESSICA LEVITH (07:13):
And I want to be clear that it's not just about
orientation and emergence. Youknow, an emergence can actually
happen. You know, if, if a fearemerges, or if there's shift in
hormonal or hormone hormones,and there's an emergence there,
or a complete cessation, youknow, it's any new aspect of our
(07:35):
sexuality,
JOE KORT (07:36):
Tell me if you mean this. Because I, when I was a
younger man, I always wasattracted to older men, the
daddy types, and then I became adaddy type. And one day I woke
up, and honestly, my I wasattracted to younger men. Is
that the kind of shift?
JESSICA LEVITH (07:52):
Yeah, that would be. That would be so I would be
so curious about that, you know,and we would look at the context
of your life, and we would lookat what those experiences as a
daddy felt like. You know,
JOE KORT (08:06):
That's great to hear, because people, I think people
don't understand that yoursexuality and your erotic
interests evolve, right? We, ourculture thinks they progress and
can get out of control, butyou're talking about an
evolution.
JESSICA LEVITH (08:19):
No, I'm trying to tell people that I'm trying
to depathologize it all, youknow, because if you're looking
at your context, it starts tomake sense. You know, it's not
you're not going to just fall inline with everyone else.
Treatment isn't going to workwith you the same. It's going to
(08:40):
work with someone else.
JOE KORT (08:41):
You know what you're doing, you're saying a little
more than I say, because when Italk about context, and if this
is how you mean it, I like tolook at the non sexual
narratives like the jack Morin,Michael Bader, the people that
say even Justin lay Miller, why?
Why are people interested inthese erotic things? You go
beyond just Why are youinterested in it? What other
things have happened in yourlife that have shaped your your
whole erotica and sexualorientation.
JESSICA LEVITH (09:03):
That's right, that's right, because when I
completely blew my brain apartwhen I realized I was bisexual,
you know, I it was so dire forme, and I had to expand beyond.
I was pulling at anything Icould find to try and figure out
and stabilize myself. And so,yeah, I went existential. Say
(09:26):
more about that. What do youmean by that? I meant I looked
at the very existence of who Iwas as a person, you know, and I
dug all the way back, and themore I kept digging back, and
the more I would get into thingslike attachment dysregulation,
and I would get into, you know,the fears in the body of touch
(09:48):
and all of it. It just madesense when you look at early
attachment and when you youcan't just look at sexuality
from a sexuality lens. You know,you have to look at it from many
different angles.
JOE KORT (10:02):
How has this been helpful to your clients? What do
they tell you when you when youdo this kind of work?
JESSICA LEVITH (10:10):
What I hear a lot that makes me happy is they
feel normalized. They feel like,okay, so maybe I'm not broken.
JOE KORT (10:22):
Don't you agree that that's like, as a sex therapist,
every day of our work, like,that's, it's just like helping
people feel that way.
JESSICA LEVITH (10:28):
Yeah, sometimes I just want to write it on the
whiteboard and pass it from oneclient to another.
JOE KORT (10:33):
You know, I think we do. We just do it different
ways. It's true, though.
JESSICA LEVITH (10:36):
Yeah.
JOE KORT (10:37):
All right, so you also talk about a ct hexaflex And
your adaptation, the sex offlex. What's this all about?
JESSICA LEVITH (10:46):
Yes, so it's it's Acceptance and Commitment
Therapy, and it's pronouncedact. It was created by Stephen H
Hayes Kirk, Strauss doll andKelly Wilson, and it is
basically taking it's shiftingthe focus of treatment, from
(11:11):
looking at the symptomology andtrying to get rid of it, to
shifting the relationship to howwe See what's happening,
shifting in our relationshipwith the symptomology itself,
and it's being able to learn howto tolerate everything that's
(11:32):
happening and accepting thatit's happening, not necessarily
being okay with it, butaccepting that it's happening so
that you're not frozen in placeand can't move, you know, so
that from this place ofacceptance and presence, you're
able to make decisions that arein line with what matters to you
(11:55):
in the world.
JOE KORT (11:56):
I would think that this also helps couples. Do you
use it with couples?
JESSICA LEVITH (12:01):
I have used it with couples. I mean, act isn't
just a therapy model. I reallytruly, it's kind of how I live
my life. You know, it's, it'sjust kind of, it becomes its own
value.
JOE KORT (12:14):
Can you give me example? Like, how do you like,
how is it a way of life for touse the Acceptance and
Commitment Therapy.
JESSICA LEVITH (12:21):
Well, I have a 10 year old child, and you know,
there's so much about what canhappen in a day with him that I
can't control. And it's notabout being like, okay. It's not
about bypassing, you know? It'sabout going, Okay, this is
(12:41):
what's happening right now. Heis, he is telling me something.
To my face, I am wanting toabsolutely lose my mind. And now
what am I going to do?
JOE KORT (12:51):
Yeah, and then it helps you make different
decisions?
JESSICA LEVITH (12:55):
Most of the time.
JOE KORT (12:56):
Yeah, right, right, right. You're human. So of
course, it's not going to be allthe time.
JESSICA LEVITH (13:02):
Right.
JOE KORT (13:05):
And I would expect that a partner listening to this
would help her, him, them, havesome kind of compassion for a
partner for what they find out.
Because usually people arecoming to my office and the
partners are discoveringsomething new sexually that they
are disgusted by or surprised byor bothered by, and I would
think that this would help them.
JESSICA LEVITH (13:29):
Yeah, erotic conflicts aren't just a conflict
for the person having it, youknow, it can absolutely and I
don't want to minimize the painthat you know, if you have a
partner that is realizing thatthey have a different
orientation, you know, or theyall of a sudden have a kink that
(13:51):
you have absolutely no interestin, but this kink is like such a
need for them, right? It'sdisorienting, I think I start
with the partner and reallywanting to hear what part of
(14:11):
this is the most painful, and ittypically is. I thought I knew
them, and then that's when theeducation of you do, and people
evolve.
JOE KORT (14:27):
I love that you do.
And people evolve, including therelationship as that this
information comes out.
JESSICA LEVITH (14:36):
Yeah.
JOE KORT (14:37):
And look, if somebody comes to you and they have a
kink and they can't accept it.
How does your work translateinto helping that client?
JESSICA LEVITH (14:47):
So I think, as Moran would say, you know, you
can't get rid of a kink, and asSteven Hayes would say, you
can't delete a feeling.
JOE KORT (14:59):
Mm.
JESSICA LEVITH (14:59):
Right? So I'm going to say, you can't delete a
kink, right? And I would say, Iwould say working with
acceptance around the fact thatthis is a part of your template,
while also building out thetemplate so that you have more
(15:22):
things that you can get curiousabout sexually, so that there's
not so much pressure on this onething, you know, and it's not so
dire, you know, and working tokind of pull apart. Why is it so
dire? You're doing so manythings at the same time?
JOE KORT (15:38):
Yeah, I like what you're saying. You can't delete
a can't delete a kink. You can'tlike people want to come in and
give themselves or want us togive them an erratic ectomy.
Have you ever heard that word?
JESSICA LEVITH (15:50):
Oh, yeah, that Doug used to say that all the
time.
JOE KORT (15:53):
I learned that from Doug brown Harvey too. Yes, an
erratic ectomy. You can't giveyourself one.
JESSICA LEVITH (15:57):
Right.
JOE KORT (15:59):
You describe an intersectional analysis of power
and privilege in sexuality andsocial identifiers. What does
this mean and how does it work?
JESSICA LEVITH (16:08):
Well, it's really great to know we have a
sexual context and how importantthat is, but then we have to be
able to pull it apart, you know?
And so this is the tool that I'musing, and it is. It is not a
tool I made up. This is a toolbased on many black women
thought leaders, and it'soriginally created to look at
oppression and privilege andpower, right? And some of the
(16:32):
ways of doing this I wasreading, and I have a dear
friend, Dr Bianca luriano, andshe's a really great teacher on
this and and we just, I juststarted noticing, like, this is
how you could also pull out allof the identifiers, and it's
(16:55):
not, it doesn't Just have to beabout this one particular way to
pull apart oppression. I mean,when we look at our sexual
context, we're looking at all ofthe different ways that we may
or may not have power. Sexually,we're talking about consent.
(17:16):
We're talking aboutexploitation, and so it works
with a lot of different sexualhealth issues, access to birth
control, you know all of it.
JOE KORT (17:32):
You know what I like tell me if this how this might
fit in. People come into ouroffice. I'm sure you've had this
where they're interested. Theymight be lesbians, but they have
rape fantasies. They might bepeople of color, but they like
race play. You know, wherethey're being victimized through
the play of the sexual play gaymen who are activists by day,
(17:53):
but want to be bullied bystraight men and humiliated for
not for having gay pride atnight. How does this work with
that?
JESSICA LEVITH (18:01):
You know, you were saying that. And I actually
was thinking about the polaropposite, which it would be, you
know, people who preach by day,you know, and are cis, straight
men by day, and hella gay bynight, you know. And it's like
it, can you hold both? Can youcan? Can people start holding
(18:26):
both? You know, all of it, yes.
And like, okay, don't let itfreeze you, because you have
this big split. You know, lookat the split, and let's change
your relationship to the splitso that you can then move.
JOE KORT (18:44):
I like that, hold on to both. And that's the tension
that as therapists, we'rehelping people do in the work.
JESSICA LEVITH (18:51):
Yeah.
JOE KORT (18:51):
And what if, how do people resist like that? I would
think that would be hard to getthem to be able to hold both.
JESSICA LEVITH (18:59):
Well, you know, I mean, when I have a client
that is very protective at acertain point, it's like, I'm
not going to get in an argumentwith you. You're here because
you're hurting. You know, haswhat you've been doing worked,
you know, like, act is aboutfunctional contextualism, you
(19:22):
know? And so the hexaflex, thesexiflex that I have, right?
Which is just a play on the wordhexaflex, because hexaflex means
six in Greek, and sex of and sexmeans six in Latin. And I found
that out, and I was like...
JOE KORT (19:42):
Yeah, that's awesome.
JESSICA LEVITH (19:43):
I was so excited about that. I hope you
trademarked that. I know it was,it was wonderful. It's my
partner actually helped me withthat one.
JOE KORT (19:50):
I love it.
JESSICA LEVITH (19:52):
But that's functional. Contextualism is act
sexual. Contextualism is Is actit is basically what is
functional, what is working foryou and what is not working for
you, because you could be doingwhat you think is absolutely the
right thing to do, but if you'redoing it in the wrong context,
(20:15):
it's not going to work.
JOE KORT (20:16):
So can you give us an example of that, so people know
what you're talking about?
JESSICA LEVITH (20:20):
True. Okay, let me think of one. All right, you
got a couple that comes in,right? And they they've been
together 10 years, and you knowthe sex is getting robotic, and
you know you're asking them toset aside some intentional time,
(20:41):
right? You're not going to gettoo prescriptive, but you're
going to set aside someintentional time. So you've got
this couple here that can dothis, and then you've got this
couple here that have a newbornand a two year old, you know,
who it's not going to it's notthe same ballgame, you know. And
so that's what I'm talkingabout, the context, the context
(21:04):
of, you know, what are youasking someone to do, to work on
an issue? Is it possible in theworld that they live in, you
know, in their experience of theworld? Because if it's not, then
you're asking this couple to dosomething that they can't do,
and then it's hopeless.
JOE KORT (21:24):
Right.
JESSICA LEVITH (21:25):
And they get they feel hopeless.
JOE KORT (21:27):
Right because they can't find their way through it
or out of it.
JESSICA LEVITH (21:32):
Because, you know, they've got a kid attached
to them.
JOE KORT (21:34):
Right, right. You say that you have a book coming out
to publish soon, which isawesome. Congratulations. Will
you tell our listeners about it?
Describe you describe it as aHitchhiker's Guide to our
sexualities. What does thatmean?
JESSICA LEVITH (21:50):
So yes, I am in the last chapter of this book,
and the book is actually oneverything we're talking about.
It's on sexual context. It takesyou through the entire six
processes of Act and looking atour sexual health through that
being able to kind of pull apartwho we are sexually. And then
(22:13):
heading up each chapter is apart of what happened during my
sexual emergence and what hashappened. And so it starts in
the moment that I realized, andmy brain blows apart, and then
takes you back and back and backin time. And then it brings you
back up to present, where mypartner and I go start to dip
(22:35):
our toes in non monogamy. Andyou know, so it's, it's, I'm
very excited about it.
JOE KORT (22:41):
What I love is that you're normalizing, which a lot
of people don't like sometimes.
But it's true how what happensto us as therapists informs our
work, and that's what's happenedfor you.
JESSICA LEVITH (22:51):
Yes, you know, I think I've always found it very
interesting that people who workin chemical addiction, they can
more openly talk about howthey've had their own issues.
But with sex, it's again, thisvery compartmentalized thing,
(23:12):
you know. And I'm saying, Yeah,I'm a sexual person, you know,
and I just like everyone else,it's going to evolve throughout
my life.
JOE KORT (23:21):
Yeah, and should. I my entire life? I'm a gay man. I've
only been attracted to men, andthen when I turned 50, I was at
a party, and I was across theroom, and then started talking
to this woman. She was wearing azipper dress from the front, and
I had these naughty thoughts,unbelievable, of unzipping that
(23:41):
dress and taking her in my head,I would never say a word. I
would never show her that oranything, but it was the most
disturbing thing that everhappened to me, mostly because I
was, I'm a trauma survivor, andmy perpetrator was a woman, and
so I was like, I went, I had togo back to the therapist that I
did my original trauma work withand she basically taught me,
(24:02):
talked about it in terms ofsexual fluidity. But what would
what would you say? Would yousay the same thing, or would you
add to it from your work?
JESSICA LEVITH (24:08):
Oh, what what comes to my mind immediately is
the Kinsey scale versus theKlein scale, right? So the
Kinsey scale is one to seven.
Pick one, right? And, and, andthe client scale is like, hold
up. You know, you may be a onehere, but it's in this context.
What about this context?
JOE KORT (24:30):
Yeah
JESSICA LEVITH (24:30):
What is it about context?
JOE KORT (24:32):
Right, right He breaks it down to behavior, fantasy,
desire, attraction, I love,emotion, all of that.
JESSICA LEVITH (24:40):
Yeah.
JOE KORT (24:41):
And you do it too. It sounds like you flesh that out
in the work you do.
JESSICA LEVITH (24:45):
Yeah I mean, I try to flesh out all of this
stuff. You know, I created a,what's called the Spirograph of
sexual something. And it, it isall it's looking it's all of us
taking our identifiers andputting it on paper. And looking
at it, you know, so that we canget a visual of how complicated
this actually is, how nuanced.
JOE KORT (25:06):
So nuanced you note that you've taken a deep dive
into meditation and mindfulnessin psychotherapy. Can you talk
about that? Expand on that alittle bit?
JESSICA LEVITH (25:15):
Oh, okay, so during the pandemic, like many
people, that was actually only acouple of years after my
realization. So then we wentinto lockdown, and so I was just
like losing my mind, and I had asmall child, and I took a deep
dive into meditation. I hadavoided it my whole life, and
(25:41):
and meditation is very hard forpeople with trauma, you know. So
I learned that meditationdoesn't have to be sitting like
this, you know, there's walkingmeditation, there's lying
meditation, and it's and it'smore mindfulness work that I do,
you know. So so I took a reallygreat course out of the bar
(26:04):
center for Buddhist studies, andit was like a nine month course
on psychotherapy and meditationand learning the neurobiology
behind all of it with, I mean,I'm talking Rick Hansen, Chris
Germer, like everybody did aweek there. It was amazing.
JOE KORT (26:24):
That sounds so nice.
Yeah, and I like that. You'resaying that because mindfulness
for me, and maybe it's becauseof my or meditation. I mean,
with my own trauma, I can't justsit there, I'll fall asleep,
I'll self pleasure, I'll dosomething I don't know, but I
can't I need somebody talking tome, or I need to be walking, or
I need to be doing those things.
A lot of people don't understandthat. That's also meditation.
JESSICA LEVITH (26:45):
That's a safety thing, man...
JOE KORT (26:46):
Yeah.
JESSICA LEVITH (26:46):
You know, like, I have so many clients, I didn't
do it for decades because Ithought you had to go like this.
And my body was saying, No,yeah, right, yeah. So when I
gave myself permission to maybethink about it a different way
and just think about it asbringing back. And when you when
(27:07):
you go away and you bring itback, that's the work. You know.
It's not about how long can youstay in Zen. It's about bringing
it back when you know it's goingto go off.
JOE KORT (27:18):
Totally. Wow. This has been very helpful, very good
information, very different, youknow, and but aligns so much
with my stuff, and I havelearned some things that expands
on the work I do. If people wantto hear more from you, where do
they go?
JESSICA LEVITH (27:31):
Well, if, if you have an interest at all in
sexual context, I really hopethat you can follow me on
Instagram, because I really wantto get this work into the right
hands so that it can get intothe right hands. So my
Instagram, I is @JessLevith_CST.
JOE KORT (27:49):
Good. And we're going to make sure that they see that
also. We're going to, when weput this video out there,
podcasts out there, they'regoing to see all that too. So
good. Thank you. Would you wantto leave them with any last
thought?
JESSICA LEVITH (28:03):
Sure, just understanding what sexual
context is, which is just ourunique way of how we've come to
see the world sexually, how theworld does or does not see us
sexually, and how we seeourselves, you know, and really
going on that Hitchhiker's Guideadventure.
JOE KORT (28:26):
I love it. Thank you so much. It was a pleasure
having you on my show.
JESSICA LEVITH (28:29):
Bye.
JOE KORT (28:31):
So before you go, you can hear more of my podcast at
www.smartsexsmartlove.com, andalso you can follow me on
Twitter, Tiktok, Instagram andFacebook, and I'm growing on
YouTube, so come and watch me onYouTube, or go to my website,
Dr. Joe Kort J, o, e, K O, Rt.com, thanks for listening, And
until next time, stay safe andstay healthy.
Welcome everybody to Smart Sex, Smart Love. We're
talking about sex goes beyondthe taboo, and talking about
love goes beyond the honeymoon.
Today, my guest is Jess Levith,a licensed Marriage and Family
Therapist and certified sextherapist, writer and lecturer.
Jess is fully trained inattachment focused EMDR therapy
and Acceptance and Commitmenttheory. Her fields of specialty
(00:25):
include LGBTQIA plus kink,consensual, non monogamy,
women's sexual health andproblematic and out of control
sexual behaviors. In recentyears, she has taken a deep dive
into insight, meditation andmindfulness in psycho
psychotherapy. Today, Jess willbe talking about sexual
(00:46):
contextualism, Acceptance andCommitment Therapy for sexual
identity expansion and what allof this means to us. Welcome
Jess,
JESSICA LEVITH (00:56):
Hi, Joe. Thank you for having me in your space.
JOE KORT (00:59):
Oh, my God, it's great to have you especially, I'm
especially interested in hearingeverything, but especially the
stuff about sexual identityexpansion. I talk about it so
much I'm feel like I'm going tohave a lot to learn from you
today.
JESSICA LEVITH (01:11):
Awesome.
JOE KORT (01:13):
All right. Well, let's start with the first question,
which is the term sexualcontextualism sounds pretty
complex. Can you explain what itmeans in simpler terms and how
it is to fit into our lives.
JESSICA LEVITH (01:23):
Yes, so it is a very fancy way of saying that
when I work with sexual health,I'm looking at people's
histories. I'm looking at thecontext, you know, what are the
lived experiences they've had inthis life, and how does it
impact their sexuality?
JOE KORT (01:42):
All right, like, what kinds of questions would you ask
them to answer in terms of that?
JESSICA LEVITH (01:47):
Well, so that's I would get into what I consider
the sexual context, which is allof us have a different
experience around the world. Inour sexuality has a different
experience, given that we allhave different ways that we
identify in the world, and notjust an orientation, right? We
(02:09):
have a whole social profile andall of these different ways that
we identify our age, race,culture, it all impacts our
sexuality. Our sexuality comesup through that. That is our
sexual context. So our sexualcontext is, how do we see the
world sexually? How does theworld see us or not see us
(02:33):
sexually? And how do we seeourselves sexually? Those, those
are the questions. So anyquestions, kind of probing
around that.
JOE KORT (02:42):
And why would you say it matters sexual context in and
of itself?
JESSICA LEVITH (02:47):
It matters a lot because sexual context is what
both the individual clients andthe therapist can look to for
clues as to what may behappening with someone sexually,
right? So a person, one personwho has a fear of sex, it may be
(03:07):
because they got triggered fromsomething that happened a decade
ago, an assault, whereas anotherperson that has a fear of sex
may actually be afraid of havingpleasure in their body. So it's,
really it's just a reminder thateveryone is so individual.
JOE KORT (03:26):
I love that. Because people don't understand this.
They think that there has to besome general way, and we all
should be a general way. Andyou're saying, No, everybody's
unique in the way that theyexpress this
JESSICA LEVITH (03:35):
Exactly.
JOE KORT (03:36):
And then you say that we're all born with whatever
sexuality we're born with, andthen our sexuality develops
through our soup of lifeexperiences or circumstances.
Will you discuss this?
JESSICA LEVITH (03:46):
Yes, definitely.
So we all are born with atemperament that's well
documented, right, the emotionaltemplate, and it's also been
documented that there areaspects of our sexual
orientation and sexuality thatwe are born with. And so both of
these things come up through ourcontext. Come up through our
(04:09):
soup our life. I call it thegumbo because I'm from New
Orleans, and we they it'sbecause it comes through this
that we come out so individualand so differently. Did I answer
the question?
JOE KORT (04:27):
Yes, it does, actually. Now tell me if you
talk about it this way, Iusually talk about the
difference between sexualorientation and erotic
orientation. Is that what youmean?
JESSICA LEVITH (04:38):
Yes, yes. I mean that just because you have a
particular sexual orientation,that does not equal a very
specific erotic orientation.
JOE KORT (04:52):
I love it. I love it.
We're so aligned. I didn'trealize this until you know,
like we're talking together. Ilove this, all right, another
term not often used that you useis sexual emergence? Will you
explain it and provide someexamples?
JESSICA LEVITH (05:04):
Yes, it's not often used because I made it up
myself.
JOE KORT (05:07):
All right, good, all right.
JESSICA LEVITH (05:11):
So an emergence, is it? It comes out of our
context, right? So an emergenceis when out of either nowhere or
maybe over a period of time, wecome to realize some new aspect
of our sexuality that we justdidn't know about before, right?
And so when I give examples, Istart with my own example, which
(05:35):
was I was in my late 30s and outof nowhere, I realized I, in a
very split moment, was attractedto both women in addition to
men. Right now. This issomething that had been pointed
to me a couple of times, but itjust went like this. I truly had
(05:56):
no connection to it until thisone moment, and so when I became
completely disoriented. I was atherapist, by the way, at this
time, a sex therapist at thistime and when this became, you
know, this blew apart my mind.
And it I had a small baby athome, you know, I was in a
(06:19):
partnership that I'm still inwith, with my partner, who is a
man and and I needed to figureout very quickly how to frame
this. I had, there is no amazingsex education. We have to
patchwork it together ourselvesas adults. And so I'm
(06:39):
patchworking and trying to holdmy family together and and I
wanted to create for someoneelse some kind of framework,
some kind of guidebook for goingthrough sexual exploration and
expansion in a more containedway.
JOE KORT (06:58):
That's so great, because you're right to be
without sex education, it'spatchwork. It's porn work and
not at all dissing porn. Pornhas its place. But without sex
education, it can give us askewed way of looking at things.
It can.
JESSICA LEVITH (07:13):
And I want to be clear that it's not just about
orientation and emergence. Youknow, an emergence can actually
happen. You know, if, if a fearemerges, or if there's shift in
hormonal or hormone hormones,and there's an emergence there,
or a complete cessation, youknow, it's any new aspect of our
(07:35):
sexuality,
JOE KORT (07:36):
Tell me if you mean this. Because I, when I was a
younger man, I always wasattracted to older men, the
daddy types, and then I became adaddy type. And one day I woke
up, and honestly, my I wasattracted to younger men. Is
that the kind of shift?
JESSICA LEVITH (07:52):
Yeah, that would be. That would be so I would be
so curious about that, you know,and we would look at the context
of your life, and we would lookat what those experiences as a
daddy felt like. You know,
JOE KORT (08:06):
That's great to hear, because people, I think people
don't understand that yoursexuality and your erotic
interests evolve, right? We, ourculture thinks they progress and
can get out of control, butyou're talking about an
evolution.
JESSICA LEVITH (08:19):
No, I'm trying to tell people that I'm trying
to depathologize it all, youknow, because if you're looking
at your context, it starts tomake sense. You know, it's not
you're not going to just fall inline with everyone else.
Treatment isn't going to workwith you the same. It's going to
(08:40):
work with someone else.
JOE KORT (08:41):
You know what you're doing, you're saying a little
more than I say, because when Italk about context, and if this
is how you mean it, I like tolook at the non sexual
narratives like the jack Morin,Michael Bader, the people that
say even Justin lay Miller, why?
Why are people interested inthese erotic things? You go
beyond just Why are youinterested in it? What other
things have happened in yourlife that have shaped your your
whole erotica and sexualorientation.
JESSICA LEVITH (09:03):
That's right, that's right, because when I
completely blew my brain apartwhen I realized I was bisexual,
you know, I it was so dire forme, and I had to expand beyond.
I was pulling at anything Icould find to try and figure out
and stabilize myself. And so,yeah, I went existential. Say
(09:26):
more about that. What do youmean by that? I meant I looked
at the very existence of who Iwas as a person, you know, and I
dug all the way back, and themore I kept digging back, and
the more I would get into thingslike attachment dysregulation,
and I would get into, you know,the fears in the body of touch
(09:48):
and all of it. It just madesense when you look at early
attachment and when you youcan't just look at sexuality
from a sexuality lens. You know,you have to look at it from many
different angles.
JOE KORT (10:02):
How has this been helpful to your clients? What do
they tell you when you when youdo this kind of work?
JESSICA LEVITH (10:10):
What I hear a lot that makes me happy is they
feel normalized. They feel like,okay, so maybe I'm not broken.
JOE KORT (10:22):
Don't you agree that that's like, as a sex therapist,
every day of our work, like,that's, it's just like helping
people feel that way.
JESSICA LEVITH (10:28):
Yeah, sometimes I just want to write it on the
whiteboard and pass it from oneclient to another.
JOE KORT (10:33):
You know, I think we do. We just do it different
ways. It's true, though.
JESSICA LEVITH (10:36):
Yeah.
JOE KORT (10:37):
All right, so you also talk about a ct hexaflex And
your adaptation, the sex offlex. What's this all about?
JESSICA LEVITH (10:46):
Yes, so it's it's Acceptance and Commitment
Therapy, and it's pronouncedact. It was created by Stephen H
Hayes Kirk, Strauss doll andKelly Wilson, and it is
basically taking it's shiftingthe focus of treatment, from
(11:11):
looking at the symptomology andtrying to get rid of it, to
shifting the relationship to howwe See what's happening,
shifting in our relationshipwith the symptomology itself,
and it's being able to learn howto tolerate everything that's
(11:32):
happening and accepting thatit's happening, not necessarily
being okay with it, butaccepting that it's happening so
that you're not frozen in placeand can't move, you know, so
that from this place ofacceptance and presence, you're
able to make decisions that arein line with what matters to you
(11:55):
in the world.
JOE KORT (11:56):
I would think that this also helps couples. Do you
use it with couples?
JESSICA LEVITH (12:01):
I have used it with couples. I mean, act isn't
just a therapy model. I reallytruly, it's kind of how I live
my life. You know, it's, it'sjust kind of, it becomes its own
value.
JOE KORT (12:14):
Can you give me example? Like, how do you like,
how is it a way of life for touse the Acceptance and
Commitment Therapy.
JESSICA LEVITH (12:21):
Well, I have a 10 year old child, and you know,
there's so much about what canhappen in a day with him that I
can't control. And it's notabout being like, okay. It's not
about bypassing, you know? It'sabout going, Okay, this is
(12:41):
what's happening right now. Heis, he is telling me something.
To my face, I am wanting toabsolutely lose my mind. And now
what am I going to do?
JOE KORT (12:51):
Yeah, and then it helps you make different
decisions?
JESSICA LEVITH (12:55):
Most of the time.
JOE KORT (12:56):
Yeah, right, right, right. You're human. So of
course, it's not going to be allthe time.
JESSICA LEVITH (13:02):
Right.
JOE KORT (13:05):
And I would expect that a partner listening to this
would help her, him, them, havesome kind of compassion for a
partner for what they find out.
Because usually people arecoming to my office and the
partners are discoveringsomething new sexually that they
are disgusted by or surprised byor bothered by, and I would
think that this would help them.
JESSICA LEVITH (13:29):
Yeah, erotic conflicts aren't just a conflict
for the person having it, youknow, it can absolutely and I
don't want to minimize the painthat you know, if you have a
partner that is realizing thatthey have a different
orientation, you know, or theyall of a sudden have a kink that
(13:51):
you have absolutely no interestin, but this kink is like such a
need for them, right? It'sdisorienting, I think I start
with the partner and reallywanting to hear what part of
(14:11):
this is the most painful, and ittypically is. I thought I knew
them, and then that's when theeducation of you do, and people
evolve.
JOE KORT (14:27):
I love that you do.
And people evolve, including therelationship as that this
information comes out.
JESSICA LEVITH (14:36):
Yeah.
JOE KORT (14:37):
And look, if somebody comes to you and they have a
kink and they can't accept it.
How does your work translateinto helping that client?
JESSICA LEVITH (14:47):
So I think, as Moran would say, you know, you
can't get rid of a kink, and asSteven Hayes would say, you
can't delete a feeling.
JOE KORT (14:59):
Mm.
JESSICA LEVITH (14:59):
Right? So I'm going to say, you can't delete a
kink, right? And I would say, Iwould say working with
acceptance around the fact thatthis is a part of your template,
while also building out thetemplate so that you have more
(15:22):
things that you can get curiousabout sexually, so that there's
not so much pressure on this onething, you know, and it's not so
dire, you know, and working tokind of pull apart. Why is it so
dire? You're doing so manythings at the same time?
JOE KORT (15:38):
Yeah, I like what you're saying. You can't delete
a can't delete a kink. You can'tlike people want to come in and
give themselves or want us togive them an erratic ectomy.
Have you ever heard that word?
JESSICA LEVITH (15:50):
Oh, yeah, that Doug used to say that all the
time.
JOE KORT (15:53):
I learned that from Doug brown Harvey too. Yes, an
erratic ectomy. You can't giveyourself one.
JESSICA LEVITH (15:57):
Right.
JOE KORT (15:59):
You describe an intersectional analysis of power
and privilege in sexuality andsocial identifiers. What does
this mean and how does it work?
JESSICA LEVITH (16:08):
Well, it's really great to know we have a
sexual context and how importantthat is, but then we have to be
able to pull it apart, you know?
And so this is the tool that I'musing, and it is. It is not a
tool I made up. This is a toolbased on many black women
thought leaders, and it'soriginally created to look at
oppression and privilege andpower, right? And some of the
(16:32):
ways of doing this I wasreading, and I have a dear
friend, Dr Bianca luriano, andshe's a really great teacher on
this and and we just, I juststarted noticing, like, this is
how you could also pull out allof the identifiers, and it's
(16:55):
not, it doesn't Just have to beabout this one particular way to
pull apart oppression. I mean,when we look at our sexual
context, we're looking at all ofthe different ways that we may
or may not have power. Sexually,we're talking about consent.
(17:16):
We're talking aboutexploitation, and so it works
with a lot of different sexualhealth issues, access to birth
control, you know all of it.
JOE KORT (17:32):
You know what I like tell me if this how this might
fit in. People come into ouroffice. I'm sure you've had this
where they're interested. Theymight be lesbians, but they have
rape fantasies. They might bepeople of color, but they like
race play. You know, wherethey're being victimized through
the play of the sexual play gaymen who are activists by day,
(17:53):
but want to be bullied bystraight men and humiliated for
not for having gay pride atnight. How does this work with
that?
JESSICA LEVITH (18:01):
You know, you were saying that. And I actually
was thinking about the polaropposite, which it would be, you
know, people who preach by day,you know, and are cis, straight
men by day, and hella gay bynight, you know. And it's like
it, can you hold both? Can youcan? Can people start holding
(18:26):
both? You know, all of it, yes.
And like, okay, don't let itfreeze you, because you have
this big split. You know, lookat the split, and let's change
your relationship to the splitso that you can then move.
JOE KORT (18:44):
I like that, hold on to both. And that's the tension
that as therapists, we'rehelping people do in the work.
JESSICA LEVITH (18:51):
Yeah.
JOE KORT (18:51):
And what if, how do people resist like that? I would
think that would be hard to getthem to be able to hold both.
JESSICA LEVITH (18:59):
Well, you know, I mean, when I have a client
that is very protective at acertain point, it's like, I'm
not going to get in an argumentwith you. You're here because
you're hurting. You know, haswhat you've been doing worked,
you know, like, act is aboutfunctional contextualism, you
(19:22):
know? And so the hexaflex, thesexiflex that I have, right?
Which is just a play on the wordhexaflex, because hexaflex means
six in Greek, and sex of and sexmeans six in Latin. And I found
that out, and I was like...
JOE KORT (19:42):
Yeah, that's awesome.
JESSICA LEVITH (19:43):
I was so excited about that. I hope you
trademarked that. I know it was,it was wonderful. It's my
partner actually helped me withthat one.
JOE KORT (19:50):
I love it.
JESSICA LEVITH (19:52):
But that's functional. Contextualism is act
sexual. Contextualism is Is actit is basically what is
functional, what is working foryou and what is not working for
you, because you could be doingwhat you think is absolutely the
right thing to do, but if you'redoing it in the wrong context,
(20:15):
it's not going to work.
JOE KORT (20:16):
So can you give us an example of that, so people know
what you're talking about?
JESSICA LEVITH (20:20):
True. Okay, let me think of one. All right, you
got a couple that comes in,right? And they they've been
together 10 years, and you knowthe sex is getting robotic, and
you know you're asking them toset aside some intentional time,
(20:41):
right? You're not going to gettoo prescriptive, but you're
going to set aside someintentional time. So you've got
this couple here that can dothis, and then you've got this
couple here that have a newbornand a two year old, you know,
who it's not going to it's notthe same ballgame, you know. And
so that's what I'm talkingabout, the context, the context
(21:04):
of, you know, what are youasking someone to do, to work on
an issue? Is it possible in theworld that they live in, you
know, in their experience of theworld? Because if it's not, then
you're asking this couple to dosomething that they can't do,
and then it's hopeless.
JOE KORT (21:24):
Right.
JESSICA LEVITH (21:25):
And they get they feel hopeless.
JOE KORT (21:27):
Right because they can't find their way through it
or out of it.
JESSICA LEVITH (21:32):
Because, you know, they've got a kid attached
to them.
JOE KORT (21:34):
Right, right. You say that you have a book coming out
to publish soon, which isawesome. Congratulations. Will
you tell our listeners about it?
Describe you describe it as aHitchhiker's Guide to our
sexualities. What does thatmean?
JESSICA LEVITH (21:50):
So yes, I am in the last chapter of this book,
and the book is actually oneverything we're talking about.
It's on sexual context. It takesyou through the entire six
processes of Act and looking atour sexual health through that
being able to kind of pull apartwho we are sexually. And then
(22:13):
heading up each chapter is apart of what happened during my
sexual emergence and what hashappened. And so it starts in
the moment that I realized, andmy brain blows apart, and then
takes you back and back and backin time. And then it brings you
back up to present, where mypartner and I go start to dip
(22:35):
our toes in non monogamy. Andyou know, so it's, it's, I'm
very excited about it.
JOE KORT (22:41):
What I love is that you're normalizing, which a lot
of people don't like sometimes.
But it's true how what happensto us as therapists informs our
work, and that's what's happenedfor you.
JESSICA LEVITH (22:51):
Yes, you know, I think I've always found it very
interesting that people who workin chemical addiction, they can
more openly talk about howthey've had their own issues.
But with sex, it's again, thisvery compartmentalized thing,
(23:12):
you know. And I'm saying, Yeah,I'm a sexual person, you know,
and I just like everyone else,it's going to evolve throughout
my life.
JOE KORT (23:21):
Yeah, and should. I my entire life? I'm a gay man. I've
only been attracted to men, andthen when I turned 50, I was at
a party, and I was across theroom, and then started talking
to this woman. She was wearing azipper dress from the front, and
I had these naughty thoughts,unbelievable, of unzipping that
(23:41):
dress and taking her in my head,I would never say a word. I
would never show her that oranything, but it was the most
disturbing thing that everhappened to me, mostly because I
was, I'm a trauma survivor, andmy perpetrator was a woman, and
so I was like, I went, I had togo back to the therapist that I
did my original trauma work withand she basically taught me,
(24:02):
talked about it in terms ofsexual fluidity. But what would
what would you say? Would yousay the same thing, or would you
add to it from your work?
JESSICA LEVITH (24:08):
Oh, what what comes to my mind immediately is
the Kinsey scale versus theKlein scale, right? So the
Kinsey scale is one to seven.
Pick one, right? And, and, andthe client scale is like, hold
up. You know, you may be a onehere, but it's in this context.
What about this context?
JOE KORT (24:30):
Yeah
JESSICA LEVITH (24:30):
What is it about context?
JOE KORT (24:32):
Right, right He breaks it down to behavior, fantasy,
desire, attraction, I love,emotion, all of that.
JESSICA LEVITH (24:40):
Yeah.
JOE KORT (24:41):
And you do it too. It sounds like you flesh that out
in the work you do.
JESSICA LEVITH (24:45):
Yeah I mean, I try to flesh out all of this
stuff. You know, I created a,what's called the Spirograph of
sexual something. And it, it isall it's looking it's all of us
taking our identifiers andputting it on paper. And looking
at it, you know, so that we canget a visual of how complicated
this actually is, how nuanced.
JOE KORT (25:06):
So nuanced you note that you've taken a deep dive
into meditation and mindfulnessin psychotherapy. Can you talk
about that? Expand on that alittle bit?
JESSICA LEVITH (25:15):
Oh, okay, so during the pandemic, like many
people, that was actually only acouple of years after my
realization. So then we wentinto lockdown, and so I was just
like losing my mind, and I had asmall child, and I took a deep
dive into meditation. I hadavoided it my whole life, and
(25:41):
and meditation is very hard forpeople with trauma, you know. So
I learned that meditationdoesn't have to be sitting like
this, you know, there's walkingmeditation, there's lying
meditation, and it's and it'smore mindfulness work that I do,
you know. So so I took a reallygreat course out of the bar
(26:04):
center for Buddhist studies, andit was like a nine month course
on psychotherapy and meditationand learning the neurobiology
behind all of it with, I mean,I'm talking Rick Hansen, Chris
Germer, like everybody did aweek there. It was amazing.
JOE KORT (26:24):
That sounds so nice.
Yeah, and I like that. You'resaying that because mindfulness
for me, and maybe it's becauseof my or meditation. I mean,
with my own trauma, I can't justsit there, I'll fall asleep,
I'll self pleasure, I'll dosomething I don't know, but I
can't I need somebody talking tome, or I need to be walking, or
I need to be doing those things.
A lot of people don't understandthat. That's also meditation.
JESSICA LEVITH (26:45):
That's a safety thing, man...
JOE KORT (26:46):
Yeah.
JESSICA LEVITH (26:46):
You know, like, I have so many clients, I didn't
do it for decades because Ithought you had to go like this.
And my body was saying, No,yeah, right, yeah. So when I
gave myself permission to maybethink about it a different way
and just think about it asbringing back. And when you when
(27:07):
you go away and you bring itback, that's the work. You know.
It's not about how long can youstay in Zen. It's about bringing
it back when you know it's goingto go off.
JOE KORT (27:18):
Totally. Wow. This has been very helpful, very good
information, very different, youknow, and but aligns so much
with my stuff, and I havelearned some things that expands
on the work I do. If people wantto hear more from you, where do
they go?
JESSICA LEVITH (27:31):
Well, if, if you have an interest at all in
sexual context, I really hopethat you can follow me on
Instagram, because I really wantto get this work into the right
hands so that it can get intothe right hands. So my
Instagram, I is @JessLevith_CST.
JOE KORT (27:49):
Good. And we're going to make sure that they see that
also. We're going to, when weput this video out there,
podcasts out there, they'regoing to see all that too. So
good. Thank you. Would you wantto leave them with any last
thought?
JESSICA LEVITH (28:03):
Sure, just understanding what sexual
context is, which is just ourunique way of how we've come to
see the world sexually, how theworld does or does not see us
sexually, and how we seeourselves, you know, and really
going on that Hitchhiker's Guideadventure.
JOE KORT (28:26):
I love it. Thank you so much. It was a pleasure
having you on my show.
JESSICA LEVITH (28:29):
Bye.
JOE KORT (28:31):
So before you go, you can hear more of my podcast at
www.smartsexsmartlove.com, andalso you can follow me on
Twitter, Tiktok, Instagram andFacebook, and I'm growing on
YouTube, so come and watch me onYouTube, or go to my website,
Dr. Joe Kort J, o, e, K O, Rt.com, thanks for listening, And
until next time, stay safe andstay healthy.
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