May 26, 2025 • 54 mins
What if your so-called flaws were actually your superpowers as a communicator?
At 86 years old, Annie Korzen, a character actress best known as Doris Klumpus on Seinfeld, has found viral fame on TikTok by being unapologetically herself. In this episode, Annie joins us to talk about how embracing her bold, outspoken nature led her to become a powerful communicator for a whole new generation.
From navigating social media at an age when most people are avoiding it, to crafting stories that connect across generational divides, Annie brings humor, heart, and a refreshing dose of real talk. She shares her thoughts on storytelling techniques, why being “too much” is often just enough, and how to handle speaking anxiety when your audience is the internet.
This is more than a story about going viral, it’s a blueprint for owning your voice, even when others have tried to silence it.
In this episode:
- How authenticity became Annie’s superpower
- What makes a story more than just a collection of events
- Why Gen Z craves imperfection
- Overcoming imposter syndrome, online critics, and speaking anxiety
- Leadership communication and the art of saying “actually, no”
- Humor, heartbreak, and wisdom from a storyteller who’s still going strong
Grab Annie’s book The Book of Annie: Humor, Heart and Chutzpah from an Accidental Influencer
Connect with Annie:
www.AnnieKorzen.com
https://www.tiktok.com/@akorzen
https://www.facebook.com/anniekorzen/f
https://www.instagram.com/anniekorzen/
https://www.youtube.com/@AnnieKorzenVideos
Visit TimNewmanSpeaks.com to grab your free resource, The Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers and How to Overcome Them, and start building the confidence you deserve.
Want to be a guest on Speaking With Confidence? Send Tim Newman a message on PodMatch
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Episode Transcript
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Tim (00:08):
Welcome to Speaking with Confidence, the podcast
dedicated to helping you unlockthe power of effective public
speaking.
I'm Tim Newman, a recoveringcollege professor turned
communication coach, and I'mthrilled to guide you on your
journey to becoming a powerfulcommunicator.
I want to thank each and everyone of you for your support.
It truly means the world to me.
If you have questions or if youwant something covered on the
podcast, just send me a message.
(00:30):
Please visit timnewmanspeakscomto get your free ebook Top 21
Challenges for Public Speakersand how to Overcome them.
Today's guest is Annie Corzine.
Annie was the recurringcharacter Doris Klumpas on
Seinfeld and she has recentlybecome a TikTok sensation in her
80s.
She has written humorous essaysfor the New York Times, la
(00:53):
Times and many more.
She also has performed her soloshows on three continents.
Annie has had recent press onAccess Daily, inside Edition,
the CBS Evening News and waitfor it, dr Phil.
Annie, welcome to the show.
I am so excited to talk to you.
This is just a true blessing.
Annie (01:14):
Thank you, I'm looking forward to it.
Tim (01:18):
So, before we really get into this, how long have you and
Benny been married?
Annie (01:24):
Benny and I.
Well, well, before I answerthat, I'll tell you that we met
in February and got married inApril, because he's a Dane,
benny's a Dane and he needed hisgreen card okay and my friend
said you can't do this.
You're marrying a stranger,he'll get his papers, you'll
never see him again.
I said no, I think this feelsreal and that was, uh, 60 years
(01:46):
ago, over 60 years ago god blessyou.
Tim (01:49):
That that is number one.
That that's amazing.
Um, it really is.
And there was one thing in thebook, in your book, that really,
uh, really resonated with me,because my wife and I have some
of these same conversations.
When you got rid of his clothesand he went to the thrift store
and he bought the hat and thebowling shoes, were they the
(02:10):
same things that you dropped off?
Annie (02:13):
Yes, I snuck into his closet because he never gets rid
of.
My husband is one of thosepeople who never throws anything
away and he walks around intattered, stained, you know,
washed out clothing and I knewhe wouldn't notice it because he
just grabs for a while.
So when he was out I took somethings, I donated them to the
thrift store and a week later hesaid well, I went clothes
(02:35):
shopping.
He was so proud of himself.
And he bought all the stuff,all the same crap that I had
thrown out.
Tim (02:41):
That is.
That's funny, it's hilarious.
But my wife and I have some ofthose same same conversations.
But let's, let's really getinto this.
You're you're a TikTokinfluencer.
How did that happen and howmuch time and work goes into
doing what you do?
Annie (03:02):
Well, how it happened was quite accidental.
I thought I'm a storyteller andI do solo shows and I do, you
know, appearances of tellingstories.
And I was talking to a youngfriend I'm 86, she's 30.
And I said I wish I could finda larger audience for my
thoughts.
Maybe I should put some littleclips on Instagram.
(03:22):
However that works.
I don't know how to useInstagram.
And she said oh no, instagramis so toxic, it's so last
century.
You have to be on TikTok.
And I said you're crazy.
Who wants to see me on TikTok?
And, by the way, I know we willtalk about my book, but I have
to say one of the themes of mybook is you should always answer
(03:44):
within reason.
You should always answer yeah,why not when somebody offers you
something that you're not sureabout.
So I thought this was a stupididea, but I thought what could
it hurt?
I said, yeah, why not?
And she said trust me, you willgo viral.
And shortly after we started, Idid and we started a week
before lockdown A week beforethe pandemic is when we started.
(04:04):
I did, and we started a weekbefore lockdown.
A week before the pandemic iswhen we started.
Uh, and the rest is it's still atotal surprise to me.
I'm not sure I understand it.
I mean, I'm not complaining.
I love the attention, but Ifound a whole new order.
As a matter of fact, when I goout in the street, most of the
people who stop me on the streetare young kids.
They're 20s or even youngereven younger.
Tim (04:26):
That amazes me.
I saw a couple videos with withsome, some girls that were 17,
18 years old.
Annie (04:32):
Yeah, yeah, and I and I say to them not that I'm looking
for what do they call it?
Humble, modest, humble, what'sthe phrase when you're kind of
pretending to be humble butyou're really?
Fishing for compliments there'sa phrase for that.
Tim (04:46):
I don't know what it is.
Annie (04:47):
I forget, but I often say to them why.
What is it about me thatreaches you?
And the word they often use isauthentic.
Now, I'm not sure what thatmeans, because everyone's
authentic, everyone isthemselves.
I think maybe in my case itmeans that they know I'm always
honest, I'm sharing honestopinions, even sometimes
(05:10):
opinions that don't make me lookso great.
I mean, I open up to my ownfaults.
I hope that I'm not, but maybekids don't feel that they're
surrounded by a lot of honestythese days.
Do you think that's possible?
Tim (05:26):
Oh, I think that's.
That's that you.
It's a hundred percent accurate.
I mean because, especially ifyou look at social media, I mean
people are posting picturesthat that are supposed to be
perfect of them and nobody isperfect.
Nobody wakes up and looks asperfect as they do all the time.
Annie (05:47):
No, of course not, of course not.
Uh, and also I feel a lot of it.
They're there to sell stuff.
They're there to make money.
Yeah, it's really depressing tome.
Sometimes you can ask a littlekid nowadays, what do you want
to be when you grow up?
And they'll say an influenceryeah, they actually think of
that.
It's not a profession.
I don't.
This is not my profession.
I'm'm a writer, an actor, ahumorist.
Those are my professions, andthe social media thing is just
(06:10):
something I do as part of thatbigger picture.
But a lot of these kids theyget on and they're there to sell
stuff and they succeed.
Some of them make millions ofdollars.
I'm not in that category, butthey're there as sales.
They're there as salespeopleselling a lot of unnecessary
makeup, unnecessary crap topeople who don't have the money
(06:34):
and who don't need it.
Tim (06:35):
Right, exactly.
So what's the workload?
I mean, how long does it takeyou to do these videos?
And I know you have somebodythat posts them and all this
stuff, but what's the workload?
Annie (06:44):
Well, it's less than when I started.
For many years I posted twice aday.
That was coming up with a lotof stuff.
Uh, now I just post once a dayand sometimes I skip a day in
the week so it's less stressful.
But, um, I do.
It is a job is work.
I think about it.
(07:04):
I think about what I want tosay.
I think about things that Idare not say because I don't
want to invite any conflict orcontroversy or haters, but
they're still out there.
The haters will always find.
Tim (07:16):
They'll always find a reason to hate.
Annie (07:23):
And I have people helping me.
I mean, my, my, my husbandshoots them.
And I have somebody who helpswith editing or suggesting stuff
or dealing with the occasionalbrand offer from a from a
company.
Uh, so it is a job.
Tim (07:41):
Yeah, yeah.
And again, I don't think peoplerealize that it's not as simple
as you wake up and say I thinkI'm going to do this today and
you film it.
Yeah, you put it up and it justhappens.
Annie (07:54):
I keep lists of topics I write down when I have the
terrible thing with me Tim, Iget my best ideas either when
I'm in the shower or when I'mtaking a walk, and always when I
have no access to my phone.
So I get these great ideas.
I come back, I go to my deskand I'm blank.
I can't remember what thegenius idea was that I got.
(08:14):
Eventually, they all come backeventually, but it's very
frustrating.
But what's fun about it is I'mdocumenting my life, basically.
Tim (08:25):
Yeah.
Annie (08:25):
So, whatever I do, wherever I am, if I'm eating an
interesting meal, if I'm at aninteresting party, if I just
watch an interesting TV show, Idocument it, I share my thoughts
about it, for good or bad, andagain, that's the authentic
(08:50):
piece, because it's good or bad,you know, whatever it is, yes,
a case in which I don't like tobe too critical.
I don't want to, you know, Idon't want to be nasty, I don't
want to be too critical.
I try to stay with things.
I try mostly to talk aboutthings that I like rather than
things that I hate, right, youknow, I don't want to talk about
a tv show I hate or a movie Ihate.
(09:12):
I just I don't need to be, Idon't need to be mean, I don't
want when people come to me, Idon't want them to come to a
place of meanness exactly, andit's really good at me.
Mean, is my specialty?
That's really what I'm good at.
I should maybe start anotherchannel just for that part of me
that I would enjoy the meanchannel.
Tim (09:34):
Oh boy, so so you, you got into acting as when you were in
your 30s um I was late.
Annie (09:42):
I've been late with everything.
I'm a late bloomer in every way.
I mean, now I'm 86 and I wish Ihad the, the, the fun now and
the activity now.
I wish I'd had it when I was inmy 40s or 50s.
So I just have to live to be100 so that I, can, you know,
keep growing.
So maybe when I'm 100 I'll havethe career that I should have
(10:02):
had when I was 60.
Tim (10:05):
Well, but again, I think things happen for a reason.
They happen when they'resupposed to happen and you take
it as it comes.
Annie (10:23):
And if you're in that, mindset of again within reason,
saying, yes, good things aregoing to happen.
I think I mean I don't know ifI would agree that things happen
for a reason.
I can think of a lot of thingsthat don't happen for a reason.
We won't go into that.
But I do think you're right inthat, whatever happens, whenever
it happens or doesn't happen,you have to use it and you still
(10:44):
have to work at following yourbliss.
I've always thought that I mightbe really funny and interesting
.
And I'll tell you somethingfunny, tim.
I don't know if we talked aboutthis or not.
All my life I have beencriticized for being too
talkative and too opinionatedand too blunt about my opinion,
(11:05):
and I've always apologized forit.
Also, as a woman, those are notattractive qualities.
Traditionally, those are notattractive qualities in a woman,
and I've always felt bad oh,why do I have such a big mouth?
Why can't I control myself?
Why can't I be more feminine?
Blah, blah, blah.
Why can't I be more feminine?
Blah, blah, blah.
(11:25):
Now, with this new youngaudience, I am being celebrated
for the very qualities that Iwas always criticized for.
That I was apologized for, andit's another theme of my book,
which is I tell people now thatI've learned this.
I'm old enough to have learnedthis do not be imprisoned by
other people's negative opinionsof you, and we all do that.
Tim (11:48):
Yes, we do.
Annie (11:48):
Because we're told you do this, you do that and you
apologize oh I'm sorry, oh, I'msorry.
And we have to learn to say ohreally, you think I talk a lot,
you're quite right, and maybeyou should listen to what I have
to say.
Tim (11:59):
You might get something out of it Exactly, something out of
it exactly, instead of insteadof apologizing, yeah, yeah, and
you know the way I approach itis.
Well, you know.
Thanks for your input, but Idon't live my life based on what
you think of me.
Annie (12:12):
You know, that's well, I wish I had that confidence at
your young age.
I wish I had had thatconfidence you know.
Tim (12:20):
But but I I do try and teach that to my kids and the
younger audience that I'mworking with Because, like you
said, if we spend all of ourlives worried about what other
people think about us and sayabout us, we'll never get out of
that rat race and we'll nevertruly become who we are supposed
to be who we are meant to be Itotally agree.
Annie (12:42):
But it's hard when you're young.
You know when you want to bepopular, you want to be liked,
you want to please.
And it's even harder for women.
I had an interestingconversation the other day.
I went to the wrong place sofortunately the other office
(13:08):
wasn't that far away so I ranover and I got in.
And I got in and I said to this, oh, I'm so sorry, I'm late.
And she put up her hand and shesaid Annie, I'm in this office
all day long and the only peoplewho say I'm sorry are women.
Men come late, men comeunwashed, men come without a
(13:30):
chat.
You know they never.
They.
Men come forgetting their.
The men never apologize andI've decided in this office I'm
going to have a rule Womencannot say I'm sorry.
Is that interesting?
Tim (13:42):
It is it really is, say I'm sorry.
Is that interesting?
It is, it really is.
And I've never really noticedthat, but you're probably right.
But I also think that, at leastfor me, if I know that I'm in
(14:03):
the wrong, so if I know that I'mlate, the first thing I say is
I'm sorry, excuse me, it's myfault.
If you can fit me in, great.
If not, I understand it seems tobe the polite thing to do to do
right, right, um, and, and youmove, and again, most of the
time that happens, or when itdoes happen, it's don't no
worries, just come on throughand let's get you taken care of.
(14:25):
But again, there's that wholeidea of being polite as opposed
to being entitled.
Annie (14:33):
Yes, right, right, exactly.
Well, I think that.
Again to the gender thing.
I think women feel that men areentitled and that women are not
that we still have to fight forprivileges that men assume they
have.
Anyway, I don't know if youwant to get into that, but more
(14:57):
than that you know as kids whenyou're bringing up kids.
Another thing is about otherpeople's opinions.
In Hollywood I am consideredunattractive.
If a casting call went outtoday for an attractive older
woman, I would never be seen.
They would say you're acharacter actress, which is
(15:18):
really a euphemism.
I'm too ethnic looking, I'm tooJewish looking.
That's not considered attractivein Hollywood.
And so again I internalizedthat in all my life.
I have thought well, I'm notvery pretty, too ethnic looking,
I'm too jewish, right, that'snot considered attractive in
hollywood.
And so again I internalize thatin all my life.
I have thought well, I'm notvery pretty I'm not very good
looking you know, now again,these same fans are telling me
oh, you're gorgeous.
Oh, we love your hair, we loveyour style.
Oh, what's that lipstick?
It looks so good on you, you'reso beautiful.
(15:39):
This is I'm in my 80s tim.
Yeah, this is the first time inmy life that I am being told
that I'm good looking.
I have never heard this before.
Tim (15:50):
Well, if you remember, when we talked a couple weeks ago
and you didn't realize that Iwas going to be recording what
it was, you said I don't look sogood.
I said, Annie, you lookbeautiful.
I mean, it's just you being youand that's fine.
And you said to me that menhave different standards, and I
think that's part of the issue.
(16:10):
It's how.
We as a society need to havethat change in mindset.
Stop worrying about all thoseother things and take people for
who they are and how they showup on any given day.
Those other things and takepeople for who they are and how
they show up on any given day.
And how you show up today maybe different than how you show
up tomorrow, because you neverknow what's what's going on in
your life.
(16:31):
So just accept people as theycome to you.
Annie (16:34):
Absolutely no, absolutely , I totally agree.
Tim (16:39):
So so have you always been a good storyteller I mean your
your entire life or was thatsomething that you kind of
learned?
I think I have.
Annie (16:45):
I think part of it was was that feeling that I wasn't
pretty so I better develop mypersonality.
I've always liked making peoplelaugh.
I've always liked and as, as Isay, I'm a talker, I've always
been a good storyteller, so Ialways had that.
I didn't realize, but you knowhow you take things for granted.
Tim (17:02):
Yeah.
Annie (17:02):
Also, I always hung out with people who were also like
me.
I don't hang out with quiet,restrained people, so I never
thought it was anything special.
It wasn't until recently that Irealized hey, I have a real
gift here.
I have a real something as areference to my book.
Can I talk about my book?
Tim (17:18):
Should I show my book?
Annie (17:20):
In my book.
The book happens as a result ofmy TikTok popularity.
In my book, the book happens asa result of my TikTok
popularity.
The book is called the Book ofAnnie Humor, heart and Chutzpah
from an accidental influencer,and now I forgot the point I was
going to make About.
(17:43):
Oh, in my book.
So I tell my book is acollection of stories, mostly
fun I'm a little more, as yousay, a little more fun.
Some a little more, as you say,a little more dramatic, a
little more poignant, uh, but Ihave been telling stories and
writing stories for so long nowthat it's funny.
When I, when I got the uhcontract to write the book, I
really just plagiarized formyself I went back into my files
(18:03):
and I found all these storiesthat I've been telling over the
years and put them together.
I had the material there whichis one of the nicer things about
growing older you have a bodyof work behind you.
You've been doing something allyour life.
It's there, it doesn't die,it's not wasted.
And all of a sudden, I had abook there die.
Tim (18:26):
It's not wasted.
And all of a sudden, I had abook there and you're the second
person in the last couple ofweeks who who has said that's
how their, how their book cameabout.
I interviewed somebody a fewweeks ago who took episodes from
his podcast and wrote the bookand and, and you know, there
there's a ton of thatinformation that's out there as,
as content creators, that wehave, and doing what you did is
(18:53):
it's not that it's easy, butit's something that people don't
necessarily think about all thetime.
You know they think they've gotto start from scratch and and
and start writing a book fromscratch.
But you know you, you can.
Annie (19:04):
Oh, you're not always starting with a blank page,
because you've got material inyour background.
Right Even if you kept a diaryor a journal or something.
There's material there.
Tim (19:17):
Exactly, yes me Bless you, thank you.
You also recently taught acollege class on storytelling.
What was that like for you?
Annie (19:29):
Yeah, that was interesting.
It's funny that you bring thatup, because they just called and
asked me backwards.
I'm very sorry about that.
It was much different.
I teach writing and I taught it.
It was much different.
I teach writing and I taught itfor a while.
And I teach what I do thepersonal essay, creating and
performing the personal essay.
So that's like between five andfifteen hundred words.
It's a short personal humorstory.
(19:56):
But I've always thought, asolder people and people who've
done some writing, teachingthese college kids was different
, because they number one thatgeneration.
They're so addicted to theirscreens they're not used to just
talking to people, to makingeye contact with an audience and
telling a story to an audienceand telling a story to an
(20:17):
audience.
It was a new thing for them.
Also, I gave what I thought wasa very easy prompt.
I said okay, everybody, get upand tell a story about how you
survived.
Now these are kids in theirtwenties, right?
How did you survive the worstthing that ever happened to you
(20:39):
and make it funny?
That was the problem.
They couldn't do it.
They had no, and I figure at 20, they've experienced divorce or
death of a grandparent or abreakup of a roommate.
They must have experiencedsomething painful in their lives
.
Tim (20:58):
They couldn't.
Annie (20:58):
One kid got up and said well, I had a crush on this girl
, but then I heard she washomophobic so I didn't like her
anymore.
That was the worst thing theycould come up with.
And then, when I was talking tosome of the other teachers
about it afterwards, they saidyou have to remember that that
generation went through highschool in lockdown.
Tim (21:17):
Yeah yeah.
Annie (21:18):
So they weren't bullied, they didn't get asked or not
asked to prom, they didn'tsuffer at a be not in the, in
the, in the popular group.
So in a way, not only did theymiss a lot of good stuff, they
also miss a lot of the painfulstuff that makes you grow during
those formidable, forming highschool years.
Tim (21:43):
Right, which helps you deal with a lot of things right.
Dealing with painful thingshelps you, you know, get through
life.
Dealing with positive thingshelps you deal with getting
through life life.
Annie (21:57):
Dealing with with positive things helps you deal
with getting through life, andyou know it.
And not only that, but also Ifelt that I don't know how to
explain it I'm a big believer.
I'm a big believer in failureyeah I think you have to fail
this stuff and I have a lot ofstories in my book about that.
How about my various?
I've failed enough to fillseveral books, but I think
(22:22):
there's something about thisgeneration that they haven't
been allowed to fail Right.
If they fail, somebody says, oh, it's okay, we'll get, we'll
pass you anyway in the class.
Oh, it's okay, you'll still getyour birthday even though you
killed the cat.
You know.
They say, oh, we're verydisappointed.
But I mean that that I feelthat maybe this makes me sound
like an old fashioned fuddyduddy.
I don't get the feeling thatkids are being made to feel
(22:46):
responsible for their behaviorand then if you become a person,
a grown up, who's like that,that's not such a great thing to
have a country of citizens whofeel no responsibility when they
mess up, right right, it's okay, but I messed up, so it's okay.
Tim (23:05):
We're just going to be warned and never actually clean
up the mess.
Yeah, yeah, unless you staysthere, somebody else has to
clean it up, and also I always.
Annie (23:13):
you know, none of us trust politicians, but I would
love someday to hear apolitician say you know, there's
one big mistake I made while Iwas in office, there's one big
mistake I made in my career.
If I could undo it, I would.
Tim (23:28):
When have you ever heard any of them say that?
Never, never.
They double down on it.
Annie (23:34):
Yeah, exactly that's the right phrase.
They double down on it.
Yeah, exactly that's the rightphrase.
They double down on it.
Right, I did it and I'm proudand it wasn't so bad and it was
a good.
You know, they never admit tobeing human Right.
Tim (23:46):
Right.
The only people in the worldnever made a mistake are
politicians.
Annie (23:52):
Right, right right.
Tim (23:54):
Oh it's insane.
Annie, don't get me started onour politicians.
Annie (23:58):
No, we don't want to go there.
Tim (24:00):
Don't want to go there.
We're going to have a good timetoday.
So what actually makes a goodstoryteller?
Annie (24:10):
I think honesty, vulnerability and the big thing.
When I teach storytelling, what?
What a lot of people don'tunderstand is there's a
difference between a humorousanecdote and a story.
Right, and that anecdote is fun.
I was on this plane, oh, and Iwas sitting next to george
clooney and he said this.
I said that it was so great,that's a fun story everybody
(24:32):
wants to hear.
But it's not.
But it's an anecdote, the storyversion of that.
I was on this plane, I wassitting there to george clinton.
He said this and I, and then atthe end I realized afterwards
that he had been just as scaredof that turbulence as I was, and
it was nice to know that I'mnot alone in my fears that, no
(24:53):
matter how rich, and in otherwords, if you come to some
conclusion, at the end of yourjourney.
You learn something at the end.
So in all my stories, I learnedsomething.
I was against my son's weddingand at the end, I loved it.
I was, I thought I knew how tobe the perfect mother.
I was totally wrong, I messedup in every possible way, but I
(25:14):
ended up learning somethingabout that.
So it's the, it's where thejourney, it's the I think ira
glass calls it at the end, themoment of reflection.
At the end yeah, what did I getout of this?
And then, of course, what isyour audience going to get out
of it?
exactly how is your audiencegoing to be inspired?
By?
Tim (25:33):
your journey.
Yeah, you know, and I'm glad youyou said some of those things,
because, as I was reading thebook there, there was a couple
of things that really, you know,touched me and one, I think I
don't think that there was.
More than a page went by whereyou didn't talk about your
family, whether it was Benny oryour son or or-in-law or your
(25:56):
grandson.
And for me, when I tell storiesand I give presentations and
those types of things, that'swhat I'm talking about.
I'm talking about me, I'mtalking about my family, I'm
talking about the things thathappen in my life, because those
are the things that areimportant to me, right, right,
(26:18):
things that are important to me,right and right you.
I think there has to be another, another level of vulnerability
to be able to bring your familyinto, into these stories,
because that really really trulykind of opens up who we are as
individuals and and the audiencecan can get a better sense of
who we actually are I thinkthat's very wise of you and and
I think it is important, and alot of times how shall I say?
Annie (26:39):
I judge family.
Again, we go back topoliticians.
I judge people on how theytreat their family and also how
they've been treated.
It gives me some insight.
I heard a very interestingthing once and I've kept it as a
standard.
I heard an interview with RonReagan.
(27:00):
Okay, One of the sons, one ofthe children of President Reagan
.
I happen to know the daughter.
I know her so well that I can'tremember her name, but she's
also a writer and a storytellerand we've had, we've sometimes
been on the same.
But Ron Reagan said you know,the thing about my family was in
most families the family lifeis focused on the children to
(27:25):
keep them safe, to keep themhappy, to keep them.
In my family, everything wasfocused on my father to keep him
comfortable, to keep him, youknow, able to function, to keep
him.
And so when I thought aboutthat, I started looking around
at other families that I knowand I could see in some families
(27:49):
it's about the father Daddy'shome, daddy makes the money.
Daddy's got to be kept.
Don't do that, daddy wouldn'tlike that, and I know quite a
few as a matter of fact, more so, I would have to say, in
wealthy families it's about thefather and keeping him happy and
keeping him comfortable, and inother, I would say, healthier
(28:13):
families, it's about thechildren.
It's about.
Tim (28:16):
the kids say healthier families.
It's about the children.
Annie (28:19):
It's about the kids and it's interesting to sort of
study various families.
That way, it gives you aninsight into how people are
brought up.
Tim (28:29):
Yeah, I never really looked at it like that and I think
that does probably answer somequestions that I have about
other people, right?
I mean because yeah, I think ifeverybody just did it the way I
did it, the world would be amuch better place to begin with.
So just start doing it the wayTim does it.
Everything will be good.
Annie (28:48):
And the funny thing is the some of the kids I know now
they're not kids anymore butsome of the people I know who
were brought up in those kindsof families where everything was
about the father, the father'scareer, the father da, da, da da
they actually went the otherway as parents and became very
devoted parents.
Tim (29:05):
Yeah.
Annie (29:05):
Because they didn't want to repeat Right.
They didn't want their kids togrow up the way they did Right.
So sometimes that happens andof course, sometimes, as we all
know, that abusive parents endup the kids end up being abusive
parents.
Tim (29:18):
That happens as well.
Annie (29:21):
So it can go either way.
Yeah, but I agree with you thatfamily is important.
Family is important.
Tim (29:34):
And a lot of times, at least for me, I, I, I use
self-deprecating humor andeverything's a joke and I try
and make everything funnybecause that's just the way I am
.
But you know, you have a coupleof of stories in your book
about some some really hardthings and I liked the way that
you, that they came across, likeyour story about miko.
(29:57):
I was shocked.
I mean, just reading that storyabout miko and wait a minute
story about what?
I didn't hear what you saidabout miko, your, your, your
nanny, your story about miko andoh yeah, well, that's funny.
Annie (30:11):
Nobody ever misses that story.
I like it, but but it does.
Tim (30:14):
It's odd that that spoke to you okay well, because, because
I'm the and it's there, there'sa train of thought there too,
because your next story was whenyou were at the story house and
that I'm not even that, I don'teven know what to call.
Him started making a joke aboutann frank right right, right,
(30:35):
right, right.
I mean, how mean?
How much of a lowlife do youhave to be to do that?
It's about speaking up.
When do you speak up?
When do you speak up?
When?
Annie (30:41):
do you stand up and speak up?
And the thing about Miko, whois my Swedish au pair and she
lived with us in New York andshe never met anyone like me and
she was embarrassed by me thatI so I I constantly that I
criticize.
And you know, if I saw somebodyon the street hitting his kid,
(31:02):
I would go up and say don't,you're not allowed to do that,
and whatever.
And then she went back toSweden, ended up being one of
Sweden's most notoriouswhistleblowers and she said she
learned it from me.
That was very sad, but it'sfunny.
No one ever mentioned thatstory.
I'm so glad that it meantsomething to you, but I think
it's so important it evermentioned that story.
Tim (31:16):
I'm so glad that it meant something to you, but I think
it's so important.
It's something that we'remissing in society today,
because we just let things go.
We see, we see things that arenot right and instead of
standing up and saying you knowwhat, this isn't right.
I don't care who it is.
Annie (31:33):
Right.
Tim (31:34):
Be better, do better.
We don't treat people this way.
We're not going to do that.
At least that's my opinion,because your story about Anne
Frank my wife is kind of dealingwith something along those
lines right now.
Annie (31:50):
Really.
Tim (31:51):
Yes, hard to believe, but yes, and so we're kind of going
through that right now anddealing with it and figuring out
how we're going to move forwardwith it.
But the part of the problem isis if, as a society, we just
continue to say, okay, we're notgoing to step up, stand up and
(32:12):
stop it, we're going to startrepeating some of the same
things, tragedies that havehappened over and over and over
again.
Annie (32:21):
And I, I know, I know it's too depressing, it's too
depressing, but um, uh, let metalk some more.
I want to say something aboutwhat we were saying before about
haters and trolls.
Yeah, yeah, Um, I've been verycareful.
I, yeah, I've been very careful.
I've tried deliberately not toprovoke those kinds of but you
(32:43):
can't avoid it.
If you're in the public eye, ifyou're out there, somebody's
going to find something.
Some of them are actually funny.
Some of them are so stupid.
I had one where I did a TikTok.
Actually it got millions.
It was one of my most heavilytrafficked TikToks.
It was something very simple.
I'm just having a margarita andsome guac and chips and I say
(33:08):
this sitting outside the cafeand I say is there anything
better than ending the day likethis?
So very innocent, right, Justsharing a moment of pleasure and
comfort.
Do you know that somebody wroteoh, typical white woman and her
cultural appropriation.
In other words, I shouldn't beeating.
Tim (33:31):
I walk, that maybe only.
Annie (33:33):
Mexicans should drink margaritas.
So I wrote back and I said well, I guess that only Jews should
eat bagels and only Frenchpeople should eat croissants.
I mean, can you imagine?
It was stupid?
I was accused of beingpolitically incorrect because I
was celebrating the margaritaand some guac.
Tim (33:54):
I mean that gets really.
Annie (33:55):
But then some of them have been nastier and so I was
wrote, I did a TikTok about myfeeling about haters, about
trolls.
Tim (34:05):
Right.
Annie (34:06):
And I thought what does it mean to be sitting I'm
assuming alone?
You're sitting alone and you'respewing malicious insults to a
total stranger who has neverdone you any harm?
What does that mean about you?
What does that say about you?
And I said when you do that,you are announcing to the world
(34:30):
that you have not receivedenough love in your life.
It's as simple as that.
People who feel love, peoplewho have gotten love, do not
need to do to practice anonymoushatred the way those trolls do.
Tim (34:43):
right exactly, exactly, and and.
And that gets back to the wholepoint of why do we put any, any
value in any of those types ofcomments of people we don't?
They don't even know us.
Those comments to me aren'teven valid.
Yes, you can have thosethoughts and if you want to say,
I'm great, that's awesome, butthey're not valid to me.
(35:05):
Why?
Why am I even gonna?
No?
Annie (35:07):
they're not.
I mean, I don't like to see it.
I want, of course, I have thisfantasy that everyone in the
world was gonna love me at alltimes, which is not.
I don't think I I doubt that Ican achieve that.
I already know that I can't,but it is.
It is a strange phenomenon tome, people who do that, yeah.
Tim (35:32):
How about the when you're, when you're doing your
storytelling?
Talk about the research and thepreparation that actually goes
into that, because I also I alsothink that's something that's
actually missed from from the,the younger professionals
perspective, when, when they youknow, when they're in a meeting
(35:53):
and they're going to do apresentation or they're telling
a story or whatever it's there'sa lack of preparation and
research.
Can you talk about that alittle bit?
Annie (36:00):
Well, you know, it's funny that you should say that,
because I think the lack ofpreparation for most people,
when they want to impresssomebody and they're going into
a meeting, let's say, or a jobinterview or something of that
nature, they make the mistake ofthinking that they should take
up the whole time talking aboutthemselves and their
(36:22):
qualifications and theiraccomplishments.
It's just the opposite.
You should do your preparationby researching the other person
the person is going to interview.
My first piece that I sold tothe New York Times, I seem to
recall I researched that editor.
I found a piece he wrote thatreally resonated with me and
(36:45):
when I sent in my piece I said,by the way, I was very impressed
with your article aboutso-and-so I've experienced.
In other words, I talked abouthis work and I've done that.
I've used that technique and notin a phony way.
I don't mean I mean.
I don't mean just empty.
You know flattery, but genuinerespect and appreciation of the
(37:10):
other person's accomplishments.
You're not there just to sellyourself.
You're there to make a friend,to make a contact, to make a
connection.
I mean literally to connectwith the other person.
And what better way to do thatthan to really know about them
(37:31):
and what they've done and whatyou admire about them, and I
think so many people miss that.
They think they're going in togive a sales pitch about me, me,
me.
That's not the case.
You look like you agree withthat I, I would 100 agree with
it.
Tim (37:49):
It's, it's.
It's never about me, it'salways about you, it's always
about the audience, it's alwaysabout everything other than that
and um you know, but.
Annie (37:59):
And also, it's like you're talking I mean, you're
called speaking with confidenceand um, it's like, let's say,
you have to give a speech,whether it's a wedding or a
funeral or a graduation orsomething.
Uh, I think people forgetthat's.
That's where the power ofstorytelling really comes in.
Tim (38:20):
Yeah.
Annie (38:21):
So if you don't know how to give a speech, you don't know
what to say about this person.
Sometimes people say, oh, Ihave to speak at my brother's
wedding.
I'm not sure.
I said it's simple Tell thefunniest story you know you can
remember about him and thesweetest story you can remember
about him.
Just those two things wouldgive you enough material for a
(38:41):
great wedding speech yep, right,that's it, yeah, so.
Tim (38:47):
So my youngest daughter um and it's funny because she was
at work in the wedding industryfor a while and that I was.
She was in the wedding industryfor a while, so she was a
wedding planner and so weddingdresses.
Annie (39:00):
Oh, really yeah.
Tim (39:02):
And so at one point she was selling wedding dresses where
the the taxes on the dress wereover a thousand dollars.
That's the, that's howexpensive these dresses were.
And when she got married, soshe's, she's buttoned up right,
she's got it.
You know timelines, this,timelines, this, that and the
other thing.
And she said, dad, you, you'vegot four minutes for your speech
.
And I said, let me tell yousomething.
(39:23):
Let me tell you something,honey.
I'm taking as much time as Iwant.
Annie (39:28):
I'm taking 35 minutes what you're serious, I do I know
I that's what I told her.
Tim (39:35):
I I had five minutes is what is what I took uh I would.
Just I was just giving her ahard time.
I said they're going to sitthere and listen to me talk
about you for 35 minutes.
You're my youngest child.
Annie (39:45):
That's what I got.
It was hilarious, yeah Fiveminutes is the perfect time for
speech.
How many times have we sufferedthrough and then the end of the
cliches.
I mean every time.
Unfortunately, I'm going tomore funerals now than I would
(40:06):
like to, but that's becoming.
And if I have to sit throughone and I know he's looking down
on us, you don't know that.
You don't know if someone'slooking down, you don't know
where they are, if they are orif they're maybe looking up at
it.
You know, and that one alwaysgot.
I know he's looking down on usand enjoying it.
Tim (40:24):
I mean you know he's probably in the back of the room
.
Laughing at you is probablywhat they're doing.
Annie (40:29):
Right, and so I keep saying I want to be there for my
funeral, I want to plan it.
Tim (40:40):
I want to plan the menu and the music and I want to and I
want to hear the speeches.
I want to be there.
Yeah, I saw a YouTube or or, orwhatever video or whatever, and
it was.
It, was it said if you, if youwant to mess with your friends
when you die at your funeral,have one of your friends text
people.
Thanks for coming from yourphone.
Annie (41:01):
That's really funny.
Tim (41:03):
It is funny, isn't that funny?
Annie (41:05):
That's a wild idea.
I like that.
But you know funerals are doneright.
Nowadays they call themcelebrations of life.
If they're done right, they canbe quite remarkable, quite
wonderful, very moving, verysatisfying.
You know I mean anything.
You know it's another thing Italk about in the book.
(41:27):
I'm not a big believer in therules and traditions.
I think we have to find our ownway.
Tim (41:33):
Right.
Annie (41:34):
And there's all kinds of ways to celebrate, for example,
a wedding, and there's all kindsof ways to celebrate to mourn a
loved one Right.
And they don't have to followthe conventions.
Tim (41:52):
Exactly.
Annie (41:53):
You know you can do your own thing.
You can do your own thing.
You can be inventive and dowhat would make sense for the
person who's not there anymore.
And what's really important isweddings are not for the dead, I
mean funerals.
I always do that.
What would Freud say?
I always mix up those two wordsweddings and funerals.
(42:14):
Oh my God.
I always mix up those two wordsweddings and funerals.
Oh my God.
But that was one of the reasons.
One of my serious stories aboutmy postpartum depression was
because I didn't feel I wasfollowing the rules and
therefore I must have been afailure as a mother, because I
couldn't have natural childbirthand I couldn't breastfeed and
(42:36):
all those things that we weretold you had to do and if you
didn't do them, your child wouldsuffer for the rest of their
lives.
And it made me crazy.
I was literally hospitalizedfor the first three or four
months of my child's lifebecause I felt I had failed and
I didn't have anyone to say tome hey, do what works for you.
(42:57):
Exactly, you can't breastfeed.
As long as you love the baby,all of those other things don't
matter, right?
Tim (43:04):
Right.
Annie (43:05):
It's the love.
And now, as a matter of fact, Iam the world's best mother.
I have the world's bestrelationship with my son.
We're very close.
Unfortunately, he lives on theother coast, but we talk at
least two or three times a week.
I have people I don'tunderstand getting back to
family, I have people who whonever hear from their kids.
Oh yeah, we talk, you know,once a month, every couple of
(43:28):
months, and I'm thinking what no?
That's not the way I live.
Tim (43:34):
I talk to both my kids pretty much every day.
If I go two days withouttalking to them, you know that
means either they're on vacation, they're off doing something or
whatever.
But we have schedule time.
Annie (43:47):
Yeah, it's an important connection.
You want to keep it going andespecially now that I have a
grandchild, I want to see what'sgoing on with him.
Tim (43:56):
And with technology, with FaceTime and all these other
things you know, yes, it's soeasy, I see them, so much
available right, that's what wedo.
Annie (44:04):
We facetime it's, it's awesome um and uh so.
So basically you know what Italk about, both on tiktok and
in the book, the book of annie,the book of annie humor hardened
chutzpah from an accident.
I talk about the subjects thatI think are important, which
(44:27):
means marriage, dating, family,career for women.
You know that life, workbalance, which is hard for women
to achieve.
Um, and then thrifting.
Now I didn't know.
It's funny what we were sayingbefore If you're you and you do
what you do, you don't know howthat's going to reach the
(44:48):
universe out there.
I was brought up poor, I wasbrought up in a tenement, in a
three-room railroad flat in theBronx, and so all of my life I
have treated money with a lot ofrespect.
I do not waste it, I do notspend it.
You know money is something,and so I've always been a
(45:09):
thrifter, always.
So I started writing aboutthrifting just because it's a
subject of interest to me.
I did not know that thriftingis a big new trend in our
society.
Tim (45:21):
It is.
Annie (45:21):
People are shopping secondhand and people are going
to yard sales and thrift storesand estate sales.
I've always done that.
I didn't know that.
Now everyone is doing it, andso I have a lot of experience
with that.
And not only do I thrift, butI've actually made money by
selling some of the treasuresthat.
I buy uh, and I have a I had andstill have a little side
(45:45):
business of that I.
I deal in um, my husband didrare books for a while but I do
vintage fashion and art andcollectibles.
These are things that I pick upfor a couple of bucks somewhere
I know are worth a lot more.
So anyway, I talk about thatbut I did not know that it was a
(46:05):
trend that I was walking into,a very popular trend uh, and
that was kind of it was kind ofsatisfying yeah, that is
something that is because, again, it was something people made
fun of me for.
You know what I mean?
Oh, my friends are like howcould you wear clothing that
someone else has worn?
(46:25):
It doesn't bother me.
Tim (46:27):
I mean, I wash it, I clean it.
Annie (46:31):
And now it's like oh, how can you shop, how can you pay
full price at a department store?
It's like that's the thingthat's suspect.
Tim (46:39):
Exactly, exactly.
So you know, if you think aboutit, anybody that's really 29
years old or younger either wasnot born yet or has no real
recollection of what happened onSeptember 11, 2001.
Annie (46:55):
Oh, you were in the city when it happened.
Tim (46:59):
Yes, I was.
Can you tell us something that?
What did you take away fromthat experience that we as a
society may have forgotten?
Annie (47:09):
well, you have to understand, I'm a passionate new
yorker.
I don't live there anymore.
I live in la, I have a nice lifehere, but I'm not passionate
about la new.
I don't live there anymore.
I live in LA.
I have a nice life here, butI'm not passionate about LA.
New York is special to me.
It always has been and beingthere, and one of the things I
love about New York is howpeople connect with each other.
(47:33):
All the time People think NewYork is being a cold and
unfriendly place.
It's quite the opposite.
In New York, you could talk tosomeone on the bus, you could
talk to someone sitting next toyou at a restaurant.
People talk to each other.
When 9-11 happened, you had thisfeeling that it was one big
community and everybody was outto help the line.
(47:56):
When it first happened, wedidn't know at this point that
there was no one to give bloodto, but the line to donate blood
at the local hospital was likefive blocks long.
Everyone was on that line,everyone was.
When everyone was.
All the cafes were filled, thecoffee, the restaurants were
(48:17):
filled.
People wanted to be together.
If you were in, at one point Iwas in a coffee shop on the
Upper West Side and a bunch offiremen walked in in their
uniforms.
I can't talk about this withoutgetting a little teary.
Tim (48:34):
Yeah.
Annie (48:34):
Everyone stood up.
Everyone stood up and applaudedeveryone.
I mean, there was, there wasjust a feeling of we have to
deal with this together togetherand people would call each
other.
No one was alone.
People would call a friend,would call and say, hey, I'll
make you the chicken.
You're coming over, I come over.
There'd be dead people there.
(48:55):
People wanted to be togetherand it was very emotional, but
it was, and it was funny.
I was in New York because I hada booking.
I was doing a show, a solo show, at Queens College, and I was
scheduled for a week after theevent.
(49:17):
Yeah, so the producer said wedon't know what to do.
If we should cancel, we'llcancel the evening show.
We'll just do the matinee.
We'll hope that people show up.
Not only did they show up, wewere so overbooked.
We could have done the eveningshow and theme show that,
because New Yorkers when theysuffer, they want to suffer
(49:39):
together.
They came to my show becausethey wanted to laugh and forget
right.
Uh, so it was.
It was just a lesson in I don'tknow what.
I don't know what you would callthat civic, what I was trying
to think.
If it happened in a way, wouldit be the same?
It wouldn't be the same becauseof cars In New York.
You're on the subway.
(50:00):
People would talk to each otheron buses.
They would talk to each otheron the subway and the word was
it was kind of a code word ifyou would run into someone that
you knew, which happens all thetime in New York you walk down
the street or in the supermarket, you meet somebody from the
neighborhood, you would say iseverybody okay?
(50:22):
That was kind of the way ofsaying have you been affected?
And I knew some people thatwere not, but we're not okay.
It was a horrible time but itwas also very inspiring and it
(50:43):
also I am a sob.
I am an intellectual sob anduntil that time I didn't have a
lot.
I never thought much about it,but I didn't really have all
that much respect for men inuniform.
You know, if I had a daughterand she married a cop or a
fireman, I don't think thatwould make me too happy.
That changed because those guysran towards the disaster.
(51:06):
I'm sorry.
I get a little and now, everytime I see one of them, a cop or
a firefighter, something in mesends out a feeling of respect
and and gratitude.
And they lost so much they losttheir friends.
They lost their colleagues.
Yeah, you know, uh, I hadfriends in the who were um
(51:30):
therapists and they went aroundand volunteered time.
They would go to the firehouses, our police, uh precincts and
they would say does anyone needto talk to me?
Yeah, you, they would go to thefirehouses or police precincts
and they would say does anyoneneed to talk to me?
They would just do that.
People just said, whatever Ican do, I had a friend who went
down and made sandwiches for the.
It was just that feeling ofpeople.
(51:54):
I guess other countries theysay that's what England was like
during the Blitz.
They always talk about thatduring the London Blitz where
people had to.
And you don't think of the, Idon't think of the English being
that way, being warm and fuzzyand making connections with
strangers, you know, but theydid.
Now I'm crying, I'm sorry.
Tim (52:15):
I'm sorry.
You're still a beautiful, but,annie, thank you so much for
that.
I think that's a good place toto end it.
Where can people buy the bookand where can they find you?
Annie (52:27):
oh, please, uh, go on amazon.
It's the book of annie.
They also have them.
I think you can order them atbarnes and noble um.
And also I'm going to ask allkeep forgetting to ask this
because YouTube may not, becauseTikTok may not continue.
We never know.
Please, if people want to hearwhat I have to say, go to
YouTube.
I now have a channel.
(52:47):
It's called Annie Corzen Videos.
So please, please, please,subscribe to Annie Corzen Videos
on YouTube.
It's a new venture and you canhear more of my brilliant witty
thoughts.
Tim (53:03):
Some of them are just informational, some of them are
really funny, make me laugh andthey're great.
And, annie, actually that'swhere I've been watching your
videos from is YouTube.
Annie (53:16):
So if you get likes here, it's Annie Corzine videos on
YouTube and it's.
So you know, if you, if you get, if you get videos on YouTube
and it's a, it's a cores in onTik TOK.
Tim (53:22):
Well, and I'll put all those links in the show notes.
Annie (53:24):
Annie, Thank you so so much for today.
I I really appreciate it.
Tim (53:29):
I love talking to you, tim, so well it's uh, I think we're
kindred spirits.
Annie (53:34):
I do too.
Tim (53:38):
You take care and we'll talk again soon.
Annie (53:40):
Excellent.
Tim (53:42):
Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcastcom
to get your free ebook the top21 challenges for public
speakers and how to overcomethem.
You can also register for theforming for public speaking
course.
Always remember your voice hasthe power to change the world.
We'll talk to you next time,Take care.
Welcome to Speaking with Confidence, the podcast
dedicated to helping you unlockthe power of effective public
speaking.
I'm Tim Newman, a recoveringcollege professor turned
communication coach, and I'mthrilled to guide you on your
journey to becoming a powerfulcommunicator.
I want to thank each and everyone of you for your support.
It truly means the world to me.
If you have questions or if youwant something covered on the
podcast, just send me a message.
(00:30):
Please visit timnewmanspeakscomto get your free ebook Top 21
Challenges for Public Speakersand how to Overcome them.
Today's guest is Annie Corzine.
Annie was the recurringcharacter Doris Klumpas on
Seinfeld and she has recentlybecome a TikTok sensation in her
80s.
She has written humorous essaysfor the New York Times, la
(00:53):
Times and many more.
She also has performed her soloshows on three continents.
Annie has had recent press onAccess Daily, inside Edition,
the CBS Evening News and waitfor it, dr Phil.
Annie, welcome to the show.
I am so excited to talk to you.
This is just a true blessing.
Annie (01:14):
Thank you, I'm looking forward to it.
Tim (01:18):
So, before we really get into this, how long have you and
Benny been married?
Annie (01:24):
Benny and I.
Well, well, before I answerthat, I'll tell you that we met
in February and got married inApril, because he's a Dane,
benny's a Dane and he needed hisgreen card okay and my friend
said you can't do this.
You're marrying a stranger,he'll get his papers, you'll
never see him again.
I said no, I think this feelsreal and that was, uh, 60 years
(01:46):
ago, over 60 years ago god blessyou.
Tim (01:49):
That that is number one.
That that's amazing.
Um, it really is.
And there was one thing in thebook, in your book, that really,
uh, really resonated with me,because my wife and I have some
of these same conversations.
When you got rid of his clothesand he went to the thrift store
and he bought the hat and thebowling shoes, were they the
(02:10):
same things that you dropped off?
Annie (02:13):
Yes, I snuck into his closet because he never gets rid
of.
My husband is one of thosepeople who never throws anything
away and he walks around intattered, stained, you know,
washed out clothing and I knewhe wouldn't notice it because he
just grabs for a while.
So when he was out I took somethings, I donated them to the
thrift store and a week later hesaid well, I went clothes
(02:35):
shopping.
He was so proud of himself.
And he bought all the stuff,all the same crap that I had
thrown out.
Tim (02:41):
That is.
That's funny, it's hilarious.
But my wife and I have some ofthose same same conversations.
But let's, let's really getinto this.
You're you're a TikTokinfluencer.
How did that happen and howmuch time and work goes into
doing what you do?
Annie (03:02):
Well, how it happened was quite accidental.
I thought I'm a storyteller andI do solo shows and I do, you
know, appearances of tellingstories.
And I was talking to a youngfriend I'm 86, she's 30.
And I said I wish I could finda larger audience for my
thoughts.
Maybe I should put some littleclips on Instagram.
(03:22):
However that works.
I don't know how to useInstagram.
And she said oh no, instagramis so toxic, it's so last
century.
You have to be on TikTok.
And I said you're crazy.
Who wants to see me on TikTok?
And, by the way, I know we willtalk about my book, but I have
to say one of the themes of mybook is you should always answer
(03:44):
within reason.
You should always answer yeah,why not when somebody offers you
something that you're not sureabout.
So I thought this was a stupididea, but I thought what could
it hurt?
I said, yeah, why not?
And she said trust me, you willgo viral.
And shortly after we started, Idid and we started a week
before lockdown A week beforethe pandemic is when we started.
(04:04):
I did, and we started a weekbefore lockdown.
A week before the pandemic iswhen we started.
Uh, and the rest is it's still atotal surprise to me.
I'm not sure I understand it.
I mean, I'm not complaining.
I love the attention, but Ifound a whole new order.
As a matter of fact, when I goout in the street, most of the
people who stop me on the streetare young kids.
They're 20s or even youngereven younger.
Tim (04:26):
That amazes me.
I saw a couple videos with withsome, some girls that were 17,
18 years old.
Annie (04:32):
Yeah, yeah, and I and I say to them not that I'm looking
for what do they call it?
Humble, modest, humble, what'sthe phrase when you're kind of
pretending to be humble butyou're really?
Fishing for compliments there'sa phrase for that.
Tim (04:46):
I don't know what it is.
Annie (04:47):
I forget, but I often say to them why.
What is it about me thatreaches you?
And the word they often use isauthentic.
Now, I'm not sure what thatmeans, because everyone's
authentic, everyone isthemselves.
I think maybe in my case itmeans that they know I'm always
honest, I'm sharing honestopinions, even sometimes
(05:10):
opinions that don't make me lookso great.
I mean, I open up to my ownfaults.
I hope that I'm not, but maybekids don't feel that they're
surrounded by a lot of honestythese days.
Do you think that's possible?
Tim (05:26):
Oh, I think that's.
That's that you.
It's a hundred percent accurate.
I mean because, especially ifyou look at social media, I mean
people are posting picturesthat that are supposed to be
perfect of them and nobody isperfect.
Nobody wakes up and looks asperfect as they do all the time.
Annie (05:47):
No, of course not, of course not.
Uh, and also I feel a lot of it.
They're there to sell stuff.
They're there to make money.
Yeah, it's really depressing tome.
Sometimes you can ask a littlekid nowadays, what do you want
to be when you grow up?
And they'll say an influenceryeah, they actually think of
that.
It's not a profession.
I don't.
This is not my profession.
I'm'm a writer, an actor, ahumorist.
Those are my professions, andthe social media thing is just
(06:10):
something I do as part of thatbigger picture.
But a lot of these kids theyget on and they're there to sell
stuff and they succeed.
Some of them make millions ofdollars.
I'm not in that category, butthey're there as sales.
They're there as salespeopleselling a lot of unnecessary
makeup, unnecessary crap topeople who don't have the money
(06:34):
and who don't need it.
Tim (06:35):
Right, exactly.
So what's the workload?
I mean, how long does it takeyou to do these videos?
And I know you have somebodythat posts them and all this
stuff, but what's the workload?
Annie (06:44):
Well, it's less than when I started.
For many years I posted twice aday.
That was coming up with a lotof stuff.
Uh, now I just post once a dayand sometimes I skip a day in
the week so it's less stressful.
But, um, I do.
It is a job is work.
I think about it.
(07:04):
I think about what I want tosay.
I think about things that Idare not say because I don't
want to invite any conflict orcontroversy or haters, but
they're still out there.
The haters will always find.
Tim (07:16):
They'll always find a reason to hate.
Annie (07:23):
And I have people helping me.
I mean, my, my, my husbandshoots them.
And I have somebody who helpswith editing or suggesting stuff
or dealing with the occasionalbrand offer from a from a
company.
Uh, so it is a job.
Tim (07:41):
Yeah, yeah.
And again, I don't think peoplerealize that it's not as simple
as you wake up and say I thinkI'm going to do this today and
you film it.
Yeah, you put it up and it justhappens.
Annie (07:54):
I keep lists of topics I write down when I have the
terrible thing with me Tim, Iget my best ideas either when
I'm in the shower or when I'mtaking a walk, and always when I
have no access to my phone.
So I get these great ideas.
I come back, I go to my deskand I'm blank.
I can't remember what thegenius idea was that I got.
(08:14):
Eventually, they all come backeventually, but it's very
frustrating.
But what's fun about it is I'mdocumenting my life, basically.
Tim (08:25):
Yeah.
Annie (08:25):
So, whatever I do, wherever I am, if I'm eating an
interesting meal, if I'm at aninteresting party, if I just
watch an interesting TV show, Idocument it, I share my thoughts
about it, for good or bad, andagain, that's the authentic
(08:50):
piece, because it's good or bad,you know, whatever it is, yes,
a case in which I don't like tobe too critical.
I don't want to, you know, Idon't want to be nasty, I don't
want to be too critical.
I try to stay with things.
I try mostly to talk aboutthings that I like rather than
things that I hate, right, youknow, I don't want to talk about
a tv show I hate or a movie Ihate.
(09:12):
I just I don't need to be, Idon't need to be mean, I don't
want when people come to me, Idon't want them to come to a
place of meanness exactly, andit's really good at me.
Mean, is my specialty?
That's really what I'm good at.
I should maybe start anotherchannel just for that part of me
that I would enjoy the meanchannel.
Tim (09:34):
Oh boy, so so you, you got into acting as when you were in
your 30s um I was late.
Annie (09:42):
I've been late with everything.
I'm a late bloomer in every way.
I mean, now I'm 86 and I wish Ihad the, the, the fun now and
the activity now.
I wish I'd had it when I was inmy 40s or 50s.
So I just have to live to be100 so that I, can, you know,
keep growing.
So maybe when I'm 100 I'll havethe career that I should have
(10:02):
had when I was 60.
Tim (10:05):
Well, but again, I think things happen for a reason.
They happen when they'resupposed to happen and you take
it as it comes.
Annie (10:23):
And if you're in that, mindset of again within reason,
saying, yes, good things aregoing to happen.
I think I mean I don't know ifI would agree that things happen
for a reason.
I can think of a lot of thingsthat don't happen for a reason.
We won't go into that.
But I do think you're right inthat, whatever happens, whenever
it happens or doesn't happen,you have to use it and you still
(10:44):
have to work at following yourbliss.
I've always thought that I mightbe really funny and interesting
.
And I'll tell you somethingfunny, tim.
I don't know if we talked aboutthis or not.
All my life I have beencriticized for being too
talkative and too opinionatedand too blunt about my opinion,
(11:05):
and I've always apologized forit.
Also, as a woman, those are notattractive qualities.
Traditionally, those are notattractive qualities in a woman,
and I've always felt bad oh,why do I have such a big mouth?
Why can't I control myself?
Why can't I be more feminine?
Blah, blah, blah.
Why can't I be more feminine?
Blah, blah, blah.
(11:25):
Now, with this new youngaudience, I am being celebrated
for the very qualities that Iwas always criticized for.
That I was apologized for, andit's another theme of my book,
which is I tell people now thatI've learned this.
I'm old enough to have learnedthis do not be imprisoned by
other people's negative opinionsof you, and we all do that.
Tim (11:48):
Yes, we do.
Annie (11:48):
Because we're told you do this, you do that and you
apologize oh I'm sorry, oh, I'msorry.
And we have to learn to say ohreally, you think I talk a lot,
you're quite right, and maybeyou should listen to what I have
to say.
Tim (11:59):
You might get something out of it Exactly, something out of
it exactly, instead of insteadof apologizing, yeah, yeah, and
you know the way I approach itis.
Well, you know.
Thanks for your input, but Idon't live my life based on what
you think of me.
Annie (12:12):
You know, that's well, I wish I had that confidence at
your young age.
I wish I had had thatconfidence you know.
Tim (12:20):
But but I I do try and teach that to my kids and the
younger audience that I'mworking with Because, like you
said, if we spend all of ourlives worried about what other
people think about us and sayabout us, we'll never get out of
that rat race and we'll nevertruly become who we are supposed
to be who we are meant to be Itotally agree.
Annie (12:42):
But it's hard when you're young.
You know when you want to bepopular, you want to be liked,
you want to please.
And it's even harder for women.
I had an interestingconversation the other day.
I went to the wrong place sofortunately the other office
(13:08):
wasn't that far away so I ranover and I got in.
And I got in and I said to this, oh, I'm so sorry, I'm late.
And she put up her hand and shesaid Annie, I'm in this office
all day long and the only peoplewho say I'm sorry are women.
Men come late, men comeunwashed, men come without a
(13:30):
chat.
You know they never.
They.
Men come forgetting their.
The men never apologize andI've decided in this office I'm
going to have a rule Womencannot say I'm sorry.
Is that interesting?
Tim (13:42):
It is it really is, say I'm sorry.
Is that interesting?
It is, it really is.
And I've never really noticedthat, but you're probably right.
But I also think that, at leastfor me, if I know that I'm in
(14:03):
the wrong, so if I know that I'mlate, the first thing I say is
I'm sorry, excuse me, it's myfault.
If you can fit me in, great.
If not, I understand it seems tobe the polite thing to do to do
right, right, um, and, and youmove, and again, most of the
time that happens, or when itdoes happen, it's don't no
worries, just come on throughand let's get you taken care of.
(14:25):
But again, there's that wholeidea of being polite as opposed
to being entitled.
Annie (14:33):
Yes, right, right, exactly.
Well, I think that.
Again to the gender thing.
I think women feel that men areentitled and that women are not
that we still have to fight forprivileges that men assume they
have.
Anyway, I don't know if youwant to get into that, but more
(14:57):
than that you know as kids whenyou're bringing up kids.
Another thing is about otherpeople's opinions.
In Hollywood I am consideredunattractive.
If a casting call went outtoday for an attractive older
woman, I would never be seen.
They would say you're acharacter actress, which is
(15:18):
really a euphemism.
I'm too ethnic looking, I'm tooJewish looking.
That's not considered attractivein Hollywood.
And so again I internalizedthat in all my life.
I have thought well, I'm notvery pretty, too ethnic looking,
I'm too jewish, right, that'snot considered attractive in
hollywood.
And so again I internalize thatin all my life.
I have thought well, I'm notvery pretty I'm not very good
looking you know, now again,these same fans are telling me
oh, you're gorgeous.
Oh, we love your hair, we loveyour style.
Oh, what's that lipstick?
It looks so good on you, you'reso beautiful.
(15:39):
This is I'm in my 80s tim.
Yeah, this is the first time inmy life that I am being told
that I'm good looking.
I have never heard this before.
Tim (15:50):
Well, if you remember, when we talked a couple weeks ago
and you didn't realize that Iwas going to be recording what
it was, you said I don't look sogood.
I said, Annie, you lookbeautiful.
I mean, it's just you being youand that's fine.
And you said to me that menhave different standards, and I
think that's part of the issue.
(16:10):
It's how.
We as a society need to havethat change in mindset.
Stop worrying about all thoseother things and take people for
who they are and how they showup on any given day.
Those other things and takepeople for who they are and how
they show up on any given day.
And how you show up today maybe different than how you show
up tomorrow, because you neverknow what's what's going on in
your life.
(16:31):
So just accept people as theycome to you.
Annie (16:34):
Absolutely no, absolutely , I totally agree.
Tim (16:39):
So so have you always been a good storyteller I mean your
your entire life or was thatsomething that you kind of
learned?
I think I have.
Annie (16:45):
I think part of it was was that feeling that I wasn't
pretty so I better develop mypersonality.
I've always liked making peoplelaugh.
I've always liked and as, as Isay, I'm a talker, I've always
been a good storyteller, so Ialways had that.
I didn't realize, but you knowhow you take things for granted.
Tim (17:02):
Yeah.
Annie (17:02):
Also, I always hung out with people who were also like
me.
I don't hang out with quiet,restrained people, so I never
thought it was anything special.
It wasn't until recently that Irealized hey, I have a real
gift here.
I have a real something as areference to my book.
Can I talk about my book?
Tim (17:18):
Should I show my book?
Annie (17:20):
In my book.
The book happens as a result ofmy TikTok popularity.
In my book, the book happens asa result of my TikTok
popularity.
The book is called the Book ofAnnie Humor, heart and Chutzpah
from an accidental influencer,and now I forgot the point I was
going to make About.
(17:43):
Oh, in my book.
So I tell my book is acollection of stories, mostly
fun I'm a little more, as yousay, a little more fun.
Some a little more, as you say,a little more dramatic, a
little more poignant, uh, but Ihave been telling stories and
writing stories for so long nowthat it's funny.
When I, when I got the uhcontract to write the book, I
really just plagiarized formyself I went back into my files
(18:03):
and I found all these storiesthat I've been telling over the
years and put them together.
I had the material there whichis one of the nicer things about
growing older you have a bodyof work behind you.
You've been doing something allyour life.
It's there, it doesn't die,it's not wasted.
And all of a sudden, I had abook there die.
Tim (18:26):
It's not wasted.
And all of a sudden, I had abook there and you're the second
person in the last couple ofweeks who who has said that's
how their, how their book cameabout.
I interviewed somebody a fewweeks ago who took episodes from
his podcast and wrote the bookand and, and you know, there
there's a ton of thatinformation that's out there as,
as content creators, that wehave, and doing what you did is
(18:53):
it's not that it's easy, butit's something that people don't
necessarily think about all thetime.
You know they think they've gotto start from scratch and and
and start writing a book fromscratch.
But you know you, you can.
Annie (19:04):
Oh, you're not always starting with a blank page,
because you've got material inyour background.
Right Even if you kept a diaryor a journal or something.
There's material there.
Tim (19:17):
Exactly, yes me Bless you, thank you.
You also recently taught acollege class on storytelling.
What was that like for you?
Annie (19:29):
Yeah, that was interesting.
It's funny that you bring thatup, because they just called and
asked me backwards.
I'm very sorry about that.
It was much different.
I teach writing and I taught it.
It was much different.
I teach writing and I taught itfor a while.
And I teach what I do thepersonal essay, creating and
performing the personal essay.
So that's like between five andfifteen hundred words.
It's a short personal humorstory.
(19:56):
But I've always thought, asolder people and people who've
done some writing, teachingthese college kids was different
, because they number one thatgeneration.
They're so addicted to theirscreens they're not used to just
talking to people, to makingeye contact with an audience and
telling a story to an audienceand telling a story to an
(20:17):
audience.
It was a new thing for them.
Also, I gave what I thought wasa very easy prompt.
I said okay, everybody, get upand tell a story about how you
survived.
Now these are kids in theirtwenties, right?
How did you survive the worstthing that ever happened to you
(20:39):
and make it funny?
That was the problem.
They couldn't do it.
They had no, and I figure at 20, they've experienced divorce or
death of a grandparent or abreakup of a roommate.
They must have experiencedsomething painful in their lives
.
Tim (20:58):
They couldn't.
Annie (20:58):
One kid got up and said well, I had a crush on this girl
, but then I heard she washomophobic so I didn't like her
anymore.
That was the worst thing theycould come up with.
And then, when I was talking tosome of the other teachers
about it afterwards, they saidyou have to remember that that
generation went through highschool in lockdown.
Tim (21:17):
Yeah yeah.
Annie (21:18):
So they weren't bullied, they didn't get asked or not
asked to prom, they didn'tsuffer at a be not in the, in
the, in the popular group.
So in a way, not only did theymiss a lot of good stuff, they
also miss a lot of the painfulstuff that makes you grow during
those formidable, forming highschool years.
Tim (21:43):
Right, which helps you deal with a lot of things right.
Dealing with painful thingshelps you, you know, get through
life.
Dealing with positive thingshelps you deal with getting
through life life.
Annie (21:57):
Dealing with with positive things helps you deal
with getting through life, andyou know it.
And not only that, but also Ifelt that I don't know how to
explain it I'm a big believer.
I'm a big believer in failureyeah I think you have to fail
this stuff and I have a lot ofstories in my book about that.
How about my various?
I've failed enough to fillseveral books, but I think
(22:22):
there's something about thisgeneration that they haven't
been allowed to fail Right.
If they fail, somebody says, oh, it's okay, we'll get, we'll
pass you anyway in the class.
Oh, it's okay, you'll still getyour birthday even though you
killed the cat.
You know.
They say, oh, we're verydisappointed.
But I mean that that I feelthat maybe this makes me sound
like an old fashioned fuddyduddy.
I don't get the feeling thatkids are being made to feel
(22:46):
responsible for their behaviorand then if you become a person,
a grown up, who's like that,that's not such a great thing to
have a country of citizens whofeel no responsibility when they
mess up, right right, it's okay, but I messed up, so it's okay.
Tim (23:05):
We're just going to be warned and never actually clean
up the mess.
Yeah, yeah, unless you staysthere, somebody else has to
clean it up, and also I always.
Annie (23:13):
you know, none of us trust politicians, but I would
love someday to hear apolitician say you know, there's
one big mistake I made while Iwas in office, there's one big
mistake I made in my career.
If I could undo it, I would.
Tim (23:28):
When have you ever heard any of them say that?
Never, never.
They double down on it.
Annie (23:34):
Yeah, exactly that's the right phrase.
They double down on it.
Yeah, exactly that's the rightphrase.
They double down on it.
Right, I did it and I'm proudand it wasn't so bad and it was
a good.
You know, they never admit tobeing human Right.
Tim (23:46):
Right.
The only people in the worldnever made a mistake are
politicians.
Annie (23:52):
Right, right right.
Tim (23:54):
Oh it's insane.
Annie, don't get me started onour politicians.
Annie (23:58):
No, we don't want to go there.
Tim (24:00):
Don't want to go there.
We're going to have a good timetoday.
So what actually makes a goodstoryteller?
Annie (24:10):
I think honesty, vulnerability and the big thing.
When I teach storytelling, what?
What a lot of people don'tunderstand is there's a
difference between a humorousanecdote and a story.
Right, and that anecdote is fun.
I was on this plane, oh, and Iwas sitting next to george
clooney and he said this.
I said that it was so great,that's a fun story everybody
(24:32):
wants to hear.
But it's not.
But it's an anecdote, the storyversion of that.
I was on this plane, I wassitting there to george clinton.
He said this and I, and then atthe end I realized afterwards
that he had been just as scaredof that turbulence as I was, and
it was nice to know that I'mnot alone in my fears that, no
(24:53):
matter how rich, and in otherwords, if you come to some
conclusion, at the end of yourjourney.
You learn something at the end.
So in all my stories, I learnedsomething.
I was against my son's weddingand at the end, I loved it.
I was, I thought I knew how tobe the perfect mother.
I was totally wrong, I messedup in every possible way, but I
(25:14):
ended up learning somethingabout that.
So it's the, it's where thejourney, it's the I think ira
glass calls it at the end, themoment of reflection.
At the end yeah, what did I getout of this?
And then, of course, what isyour audience going to get out
of it?
exactly how is your audiencegoing to be inspired?
By?
Tim (25:33):
your journey.
Yeah, you know, and I'm glad youyou said some of those things,
because, as I was reading thebook there, there was a couple
of things that really, you know,touched me and one, I think I
don't think that there was.
More than a page went by whereyou didn't talk about your
family, whether it was Benny oryour son or or-in-law or your
(25:56):
grandson.
And for me, when I tell storiesand I give presentations and
those types of things, that'swhat I'm talking about.
I'm talking about me, I'mtalking about my family, I'm
talking about the things thathappen in my life, because those
are the things that areimportant to me, right, right,
(26:18):
things that are important to me,right and right you.
I think there has to be another, another level of vulnerability
to be able to bring your familyinto, into these stories,
because that really really trulykind of opens up who we are as
individuals and and the audiencecan can get a better sense of
who we actually are I thinkthat's very wise of you and and
I think it is important, and alot of times how shall I say?
Annie (26:39):
I judge family.
Again, we go back topoliticians.
I judge people on how theytreat their family and also how
they've been treated.
It gives me some insight.
I heard a very interestingthing once and I've kept it as a
standard.
I heard an interview with RonReagan.
(27:00):
Okay, One of the sons, one ofthe children of President Reagan
.
I happen to know the daughter.
I know her so well that I can'tremember her name, but she's
also a writer and a storytellerand we've had, we've sometimes
been on the same.
But Ron Reagan said you know,the thing about my family was in
most families the family lifeis focused on the children to
(27:25):
keep them safe, to keep themhappy, to keep them.
In my family, everything wasfocused on my father to keep him
comfortable, to keep him, youknow, able to function, to keep
him.
And so when I thought aboutthat, I started looking around
at other families that I knowand I could see in some families
(27:49):
it's about the father Daddy'shome, daddy makes the money.
Daddy's got to be kept.
Don't do that, daddy wouldn'tlike that, and I know quite a
few as a matter of fact, more so, I would have to say, in
wealthy families it's about thefather and keeping him happy and
keeping him comfortable, and inother, I would say, healthier
(28:13):
families, it's about thechildren.
It's about.
Tim (28:16):
the kids say healthier families.
It's about the children.
Annie (28:19):
It's about the kids and it's interesting to sort of
study various families.
That way, it gives you aninsight into how people are
brought up.
Tim (28:29):
Yeah, I never really looked at it like that and I think
that does probably answer somequestions that I have about
other people, right?
I mean because yeah, I think ifeverybody just did it the way I
did it, the world would be amuch better place to begin with.
So just start doing it the wayTim does it.
Everything will be good.
Annie (28:48):
And the funny thing is the some of the kids I know now
they're not kids anymore butsome of the people I know who
were brought up in those kindsof families where everything was
about the father, the father'scareer, the father da, da, da da
they actually went the otherway as parents and became very
devoted parents.
Tim (29:05):
Yeah.
Annie (29:05):
Because they didn't want to repeat Right.
They didn't want their kids togrow up the way they did Right.
So sometimes that happens andof course, sometimes, as we all
know, that abusive parents endup the kids end up being abusive
parents.
Tim (29:18):
That happens as well.
Annie (29:21):
So it can go either way.
Yeah, but I agree with you thatfamily is important.
Family is important.
Tim (29:34):
And a lot of times, at least for me, I, I, I use
self-deprecating humor andeverything's a joke and I try
and make everything funnybecause that's just the way I am
.
But you know, you have a coupleof of stories in your book
about some some really hardthings and I liked the way that
you, that they came across, likeyour story about miko.
(29:57):
I was shocked.
I mean, just reading that storyabout miko and wait a minute
story about what?
I didn't hear what you saidabout miko, your, your, your
nanny, your story about miko andoh yeah, well, that's funny.
Annie (30:11):
Nobody ever misses that story.
I like it, but but it does.
Tim (30:14):
It's odd that that spoke to you okay well, because, because
I'm the and it's there, there'sa train of thought there too,
because your next story was whenyou were at the story house and
that I'm not even that, I don'teven know what to call.
Him started making a joke aboutann frank right right, right,
(30:35):
right, right.
I mean, how mean?
How much of a lowlife do youhave to be to do that?
It's about speaking up.
When do you speak up?
When do you speak up?
When?
Annie (30:41):
do you stand up and speak up?
And the thing about Miko, whois my Swedish au pair and she
lived with us in New York andshe never met anyone like me and
she was embarrassed by me thatI so I I constantly that I
criticize.
And you know, if I saw somebodyon the street hitting his kid,
(31:02):
I would go up and say don't,you're not allowed to do that,
and whatever.
And then she went back toSweden, ended up being one of
Sweden's most notoriouswhistleblowers and she said she
learned it from me.
That was very sad, but it'sfunny.
No one ever mentioned thatstory.
I'm so glad that it meantsomething to you, but I think
it's so important it evermentioned that story.
Tim (31:16):
I'm so glad that it meant something to you, but I think
it's so important.
It's something that we'remissing in society today,
because we just let things go.
We see, we see things that arenot right and instead of
standing up and saying you knowwhat, this isn't right.
I don't care who it is.
Annie (31:33):
Right.
Tim (31:34):
Be better, do better.
We don't treat people this way.
We're not going to do that.
At least that's my opinion,because your story about Anne
Frank my wife is kind of dealingwith something along those
lines right now.
Annie (31:50):
Really.
Tim (31:51):
Yes, hard to believe, but yes, and so we're kind of going
through that right now anddealing with it and figuring out
how we're going to move forwardwith it.
But the part of the problem isis if, as a society, we just
continue to say, okay, we're notgoing to step up, stand up and
(32:12):
stop it, we're going to startrepeating some of the same
things, tragedies that havehappened over and over and over
again.
Annie (32:21):
And I, I know, I know it's too depressing, it's too
depressing, but um, uh, let metalk some more.
I want to say something aboutwhat we were saying before about
haters and trolls.
Yeah, yeah, Um, I've been verycareful.
I, yeah, I've been very careful.
I've tried deliberately not toprovoke those kinds of but you
(32:43):
can't avoid it.
If you're in the public eye, ifyou're out there, somebody's
going to find something.
Some of them are actually funny.
Some of them are so stupid.
I had one where I did a TikTok.
Actually it got millions.
It was one of my most heavilytrafficked TikToks.
It was something very simple.
I'm just having a margarita andsome guac and chips and I say
(33:08):
this sitting outside the cafeand I say is there anything
better than ending the day likethis?
So very innocent, right, Justsharing a moment of pleasure and
comfort.
Do you know that somebody wroteoh, typical white woman and her
cultural appropriation.
In other words, I shouldn't beeating.
Tim (33:31):
I walk, that maybe only.
Annie (33:33):
Mexicans should drink margaritas.
So I wrote back and I said well, I guess that only Jews should
eat bagels and only Frenchpeople should eat croissants.
I mean, can you imagine?
It was stupid?
I was accused of beingpolitically incorrect because I
was celebrating the margaritaand some guac.
Tim (33:54):
I mean that gets really.
Annie (33:55):
But then some of them have been nastier and so I was
wrote, I did a TikTok about myfeeling about haters, about
trolls.
Tim (34:05):
Right.
Annie (34:06):
And I thought what does it mean to be sitting I'm
assuming alone?
You're sitting alone and you'respewing malicious insults to a
total stranger who has neverdone you any harm?
What does that mean about you?
What does that say about you?
And I said when you do that,you are announcing to the world
(34:30):
that you have not receivedenough love in your life.
It's as simple as that.
People who feel love, peoplewho have gotten love, do not
need to do to practice anonymoushatred the way those trolls do.
Tim (34:43):
right exactly, exactly, and and.
And that gets back to the wholepoint of why do we put any, any
value in any of those types ofcomments of people we don't?
They don't even know us.
Those comments to me aren'teven valid.
Yes, you can have thosethoughts and if you want to say,
I'm great, that's awesome, butthey're not valid to me.
(35:05):
Why?
Why am I even gonna?
No?
Annie (35:07):
they're not.
I mean, I don't like to see it.
I want, of course, I have thisfantasy that everyone in the
world was gonna love me at alltimes, which is not.
I don't think I I doubt that Ican achieve that.
I already know that I can't,but it is.
It is a strange phenomenon tome, people who do that, yeah.
Tim (35:32):
How about the when you're, when you're doing your
storytelling?
Talk about the research and thepreparation that actually goes
into that, because I also I alsothink that's something that's
actually missed from from the,the younger professionals
perspective, when, when they youknow, when they're in a meeting
(35:53):
and they're going to do apresentation or they're telling
a story or whatever it's there'sa lack of preparation and
research.
Can you talk about that alittle bit?
Annie (36:00):
Well, you know, it's funny that you should say that,
because I think the lack ofpreparation for most people,
when they want to impresssomebody and they're going into
a meeting, let's say, or a jobinterview or something of that
nature, they make the mistake ofthinking that they should take
up the whole time talking aboutthemselves and their
(36:22):
qualifications and theiraccomplishments.
It's just the opposite.
You should do your preparationby researching the other person
the person is going to interview.
My first piece that I sold tothe New York Times, I seem to
recall I researched that editor.
I found a piece he wrote thatreally resonated with me and
(36:45):
when I sent in my piece I said,by the way, I was very impressed
with your article aboutso-and-so I've experienced.
In other words, I talked abouthis work and I've done that.
I've used that technique and notin a phony way.
I don't mean I mean.
I don't mean just empty.
You know flattery, but genuinerespect and appreciation of the
(37:10):
other person's accomplishments.
You're not there just to sellyourself.
You're there to make a friend,to make a contact, to make a
connection.
I mean literally to connectwith the other person.
And what better way to do thatthan to really know about them
(37:31):
and what they've done and whatyou admire about them, and I
think so many people miss that.
They think they're going in togive a sales pitch about me, me,
me.
That's not the case.
You look like you agree withthat I, I would 100 agree with
it.
Tim (37:49):
It's, it's.
It's never about me, it'salways about you, it's always
about the audience, it's alwaysabout everything other than that
and um you know, but.
Annie (37:59):
And also, it's like you're talking I mean, you're
called speaking with confidenceand um, it's like, let's say,
you have to give a speech,whether it's a wedding or a
funeral or a graduation orsomething.
Uh, I think people forgetthat's.
That's where the power ofstorytelling really comes in.
Tim (38:20):
Yeah.
Annie (38:21):
So if you don't know how to give a speech, you don't know
what to say about this person.
Sometimes people say, oh, Ihave to speak at my brother's
wedding.
I'm not sure.
I said it's simple Tell thefunniest story you know you can
remember about him and thesweetest story you can remember
about him.
Just those two things wouldgive you enough material for a
(38:41):
great wedding speech yep, right,that's it, yeah, so.
Tim (38:47):
So my youngest daughter um and it's funny because she was
at work in the wedding industryfor a while and that I was.
She was in the wedding industryfor a while, so she was a
wedding planner and so weddingdresses.
Annie (39:00):
Oh, really yeah.
Tim (39:02):
And so at one point she was selling wedding dresses where
the the taxes on the dress wereover a thousand dollars.
That's the, that's howexpensive these dresses were.
And when she got married, soshe's, she's buttoned up right,
she's got it.
You know timelines, this,timelines, this, that and the
other thing.
And she said, dad, you, you'vegot four minutes for your speech
.
And I said, let me tell yousomething.
(39:23):
Let me tell you something,honey.
I'm taking as much time as Iwant.
Annie (39:28):
I'm taking 35 minutes what you're serious, I do I know
I that's what I told her.
Tim (39:35):
I I had five minutes is what is what I took uh I would.
Just I was just giving her ahard time.
I said they're going to sitthere and listen to me talk
about you for 35 minutes.
You're my youngest child.
Annie (39:45):
That's what I got.
It was hilarious, yeah Fiveminutes is the perfect time for
speech.
How many times have we sufferedthrough and then the end of the
cliches.
I mean every time.
Unfortunately, I'm going tomore funerals now than I would
(40:06):
like to, but that's becoming.
And if I have to sit throughone and I know he's looking down
on us, you don't know that.
You don't know if someone'slooking down, you don't know
where they are, if they are orif they're maybe looking up at
it.
You know, and that one alwaysgot.
I know he's looking down on usand enjoying it.
Tim (40:24):
I mean you know he's probably in the back of the room
.
Laughing at you is probablywhat they're doing.
Annie (40:29):
Right, and so I keep saying I want to be there for my
funeral, I want to plan it.
Tim (40:40):
I want to plan the menu and the music and I want to and I
want to hear the speeches.
I want to be there.
Yeah, I saw a YouTube or or, orwhatever video or whatever, and
it was.
It, was it said if you, if youwant to mess with your friends
when you die at your funeral,have one of your friends text
people.
Thanks for coming from yourphone.
Annie (41:01):
That's really funny.
Tim (41:03):
It is funny, isn't that funny?
Annie (41:05):
That's a wild idea.
I like that.
But you know funerals are doneright.
Nowadays they call themcelebrations of life.
If they're done right, they canbe quite remarkable, quite
wonderful, very moving, verysatisfying.
You know I mean anything.
You know it's another thing Italk about in the book.
(41:27):
I'm not a big believer in therules and traditions.
I think we have to find our ownway.
Tim (41:33):
Right.
Annie (41:34):
And there's all kinds of ways to celebrate, for example,
a wedding, and there's all kindsof ways to celebrate to mourn a
loved one Right.
And they don't have to followthe conventions.
Tim (41:52):
Exactly.
Annie (41:53):
You know you can do your own thing.
You can do your own thing.
You can be inventive and dowhat would make sense for the
person who's not there anymore.
And what's really important isweddings are not for the dead, I
mean funerals.
I always do that.
What would Freud say?
I always mix up those two wordsweddings and funerals.
(42:14):
Oh my God.
I always mix up those two wordsweddings and funerals.
Oh my God.
But that was one of the reasons.
One of my serious stories aboutmy postpartum depression was
because I didn't feel I wasfollowing the rules and
therefore I must have been afailure as a mother, because I
couldn't have natural childbirthand I couldn't breastfeed and
(42:36):
all those things that we weretold you had to do and if you
didn't do them, your child wouldsuffer for the rest of their
lives.
And it made me crazy.
I was literally hospitalizedfor the first three or four
months of my child's lifebecause I felt I had failed and
I didn't have anyone to say tome hey, do what works for you.
(42:57):
Exactly, you can't breastfeed.
As long as you love the baby,all of those other things don't
matter, right?
Tim (43:04):
Right.
Annie (43:05):
It's the love.
And now, as a matter of fact, Iam the world's best mother.
I have the world's bestrelationship with my son.
We're very close.
Unfortunately, he lives on theother coast, but we talk at
least two or three times a week.
I have people I don'tunderstand getting back to
family, I have people who whonever hear from their kids.
Oh yeah, we talk, you know,once a month, every couple of
(43:28):
months, and I'm thinking what no?
That's not the way I live.
Tim (43:34):
I talk to both my kids pretty much every day.
If I go two days withouttalking to them, you know that
means either they're on vacation, they're off doing something or
whatever.
But we have schedule time.
Annie (43:47):
Yeah, it's an important connection.
You want to keep it going andespecially now that I have a
grandchild, I want to see what'sgoing on with him.
Tim (43:56):
And with technology, with FaceTime and all these other
things you know, yes, it's soeasy, I see them, so much
available right, that's what wedo.
Annie (44:04):
We facetime it's, it's awesome um and uh so.
So basically you know what Italk about, both on tiktok and
in the book, the book of annie,the book of annie humor hardened
chutzpah from an accident.
I talk about the subjects thatI think are important, which
(44:27):
means marriage, dating, family,career for women.
You know that life, workbalance, which is hard for women
to achieve.
Um, and then thrifting.
Now I didn't know.
It's funny what we were sayingbefore If you're you and you do
what you do, you don't know howthat's going to reach the
(44:48):
universe out there.
I was brought up poor, I wasbrought up in a tenement, in a
three-room railroad flat in theBronx, and so all of my life I
have treated money with a lot ofrespect.
I do not waste it, I do notspend it.
You know money is something,and so I've always been a
(45:09):
thrifter, always.
So I started writing aboutthrifting just because it's a
subject of interest to me.
I did not know that thriftingis a big new trend in our
society.
Tim (45:21):
It is.
Annie (45:21):
People are shopping secondhand and people are going
to yard sales and thrift storesand estate sales.
I've always done that.
I didn't know that.
Now everyone is doing it, andso I have a lot of experience
with that.
And not only do I thrift, butI've actually made money by
selling some of the treasuresthat.
I buy uh, and I have a I had andstill have a little side
(45:45):
business of that I.
I deal in um, my husband didrare books for a while but I do
vintage fashion and art andcollectibles.
These are things that I pick upfor a couple of bucks somewhere
I know are worth a lot more.
So anyway, I talk about thatbut I did not know that it was a
(46:05):
trend that I was walking into,a very popular trend uh, and
that was kind of it was kind ofsatisfying yeah, that is
something that is because, again, it was something people made
fun of me for.
You know what I mean?
Oh, my friends are like howcould you wear clothing that
someone else has worn?
(46:25):
It doesn't bother me.
Tim (46:27):
I mean, I wash it, I clean it.
Annie (46:31):
And now it's like oh, how can you shop, how can you pay
full price at a department store?
It's like that's the thingthat's suspect.
Tim (46:39):
Exactly, exactly.
So you know, if you think aboutit, anybody that's really 29
years old or younger either wasnot born yet or has no real
recollection of what happened onSeptember 11, 2001.
Annie (46:55):
Oh, you were in the city when it happened.
Tim (46:59):
Yes, I was.
Can you tell us something that?
What did you take away fromthat experience that we as a
society may have forgotten?
Annie (47:09):
well, you have to understand, I'm a passionate new
yorker.
I don't live there anymore.
I live in la, I have a nice lifehere, but I'm not passionate
about la new.
I don't live there anymore.
I live in LA.
I have a nice life here, butI'm not passionate about LA.
New York is special to me.
It always has been and beingthere, and one of the things I
love about New York is howpeople connect with each other.
(47:33):
All the time People think NewYork is being a cold and
unfriendly place.
It's quite the opposite.
In New York, you could talk tosomeone on the bus, you could
talk to someone sitting next toyou at a restaurant.
People talk to each other.
When 9-11 happened, you had thisfeeling that it was one big
community and everybody was outto help the line.
(47:56):
When it first happened, wedidn't know at this point that
there was no one to give bloodto, but the line to donate blood
at the local hospital was likefive blocks long.
Everyone was on that line,everyone was.
When everyone was.
All the cafes were filled, thecoffee, the restaurants were
(48:17):
filled.
People wanted to be together.
If you were in, at one point Iwas in a coffee shop on the
Upper West Side and a bunch offiremen walked in in their
uniforms.
I can't talk about this withoutgetting a little teary.
Tim (48:34):
Yeah.
Annie (48:34):
Everyone stood up.
Everyone stood up and applaudedeveryone.
I mean, there was, there wasjust a feeling of we have to
deal with this together togetherand people would call each
other.
No one was alone.
People would call a friend,would call and say, hey, I'll
make you the chicken.
You're coming over, I come over.
There'd be dead people there.
(48:55):
People wanted to be togetherand it was very emotional, but
it was, and it was funny.
I was in New York because I hada booking.
I was doing a show, a solo show, at Queens College, and I was
scheduled for a week after theevent.
(49:17):
Yeah, so the producer said wedon't know what to do.
If we should cancel, we'llcancel the evening show.
We'll just do the matinee.
We'll hope that people show up.
Not only did they show up, wewere so overbooked.
We could have done the eveningshow and theme show that,
because New Yorkers when theysuffer, they want to suffer
(49:39):
together.
They came to my show becausethey wanted to laugh and forget
right.
Uh, so it was.
It was just a lesson in I don'tknow what.
I don't know what you would callthat civic, what I was trying
to think.
If it happened in a way, wouldit be the same?
It wouldn't be the same becauseof cars In New York.
You're on the subway.
(50:00):
People would talk to each otheron buses.
They would talk to each otheron the subway and the word was
it was kind of a code word ifyou would run into someone that
you knew, which happens all thetime in New York you walk down
the street or in the supermarket, you meet somebody from the
neighborhood, you would say iseverybody okay?
(50:22):
That was kind of the way ofsaying have you been affected?
And I knew some people thatwere not, but we're not okay.
It was a horrible time but itwas also very inspiring and it
(50:43):
also I am a sob.
I am an intellectual sob anduntil that time I didn't have a
lot.
I never thought much about it,but I didn't really have all
that much respect for men inuniform.
You know, if I had a daughterand she married a cop or a
fireman, I don't think thatwould make me too happy.
That changed because those guysran towards the disaster.
(51:06):
I'm sorry.
I get a little and now, everytime I see one of them, a cop or
a firefighter, something in mesends out a feeling of respect
and and gratitude.
And they lost so much they losttheir friends.
They lost their colleagues.
Yeah, you know, uh, I hadfriends in the who were um
(51:30):
therapists and they went aroundand volunteered time.
They would go to the firehouses, our police, uh precincts and
they would say does anyone needto talk to me?
Yeah, you, they would go to thefirehouses or police precincts
and they would say does anyoneneed to talk to me?
They would just do that.
People just said, whatever Ican do, I had a friend who went
down and made sandwiches for the.
It was just that feeling ofpeople.
(51:54):
I guess other countries theysay that's what England was like
during the Blitz.
They always talk about thatduring the London Blitz where
people had to.
And you don't think of the, Idon't think of the English being
that way, being warm and fuzzyand making connections with
strangers, you know, but theydid.
Now I'm crying, I'm sorry.
Tim (52:15):
I'm sorry.
You're still a beautiful, but,annie, thank you so much for
that.
I think that's a good place toto end it.
Where can people buy the bookand where can they find you?
Annie (52:27):
oh, please, uh, go on amazon.
It's the book of annie.
They also have them.
I think you can order them atbarnes and noble um.
And also I'm going to ask allkeep forgetting to ask this
because YouTube may not, becauseTikTok may not continue.
We never know.
Please, if people want to hearwhat I have to say, go to
YouTube.
I now have a channel.
(52:47):
It's called Annie Corzen Videos.
So please, please, please,subscribe to Annie Corzen Videos
on YouTube.
It's a new venture and you canhear more of my brilliant witty
thoughts.
Tim (53:03):
Some of them are just informational, some of them are
really funny, make me laugh andthey're great.
And, annie, actually that'swhere I've been watching your
videos from is YouTube.
Annie (53:16):
So if you get likes here, it's Annie Corzine videos on
YouTube and it's.
So you know, if you, if you get, if you get videos on YouTube
and it's a, it's a cores in onTik TOK.
Tim (53:22):
Well, and I'll put all those links in the show notes.
Annie (53:24):
Annie, Thank you so so much for today.
I I really appreciate it.
Tim (53:29):
I love talking to you, tim, so well it's uh, I think we're
kindred spirits.
Annie (53:34):
I do too.
Tim (53:38):
You take care and we'll talk again soon.
Annie (53:40):
Excellent.
Tim (53:42):
Be sure to visit speakingwithconfidencepodcastcom
to get your free ebook the top21 challenges for public
speakers and how to overcomethem.
You can also register for theforming for public speaking
course.
Always remember your voice hasthe power to change the world.
We'll talk to you next time,Take care.
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