Small Ball, Big Voice: How Joel Goldberg Builds Trust Through Communication

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What does interviewing World Series champions and leading corporate keynotes have in common? According to longtime sports broadcaster Joel Goldberg, it all comes down to trust, authenticity, and powerful communication.

In this episode, Joel joins Tim Newman to talk about how 30 years in sports media, including 17 with the Kansas City Royals, shaped his communication skills beyond the mic. From cold calling his way into broadcasting to navigating grief in the clubhouse, Joel shares what it really means to build trust, read the room, and speak with purpose.

He opens up about battling imposter syndrome, mastering active listening skills, and why sometimes the best thing you can say… is nothing at all. Whether you're giving a big presentation or just trying to be heard at work, this conversation will help you connect more deeply and speak with confidence.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why public speaking confidence starts with repetition, not perfection
• How to overcome imposter syndrome, even after 1,000 interviews
• The role of emotional intelligence in leadership communication
• What “small ball” means for career growth and powerful communication
• How reading the room and respecting silence builds deeper trust
• Why storytelling techniques outperform stats, even in sports

Connect with Joel:

https://joelgoldbergmedia.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelgoldbergkc

X: @goldbergkc
IG: @joelgoldbergkc

Joel’s books: Small Ball Big Results and Small Ball Big Dreams

 

Visit TimNewmanSpeaks.com to grab your free eBook, The Top 21 Challenges for Public Speakers and How to Overcome Them, and start building the confidence you deserve!

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Want to be a guest on Speaking With Confidence? Send Tim Newman a message on PodMatch
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Episode Transcript

Tim (00:08):
Welcome to Speaking with Confidence, the podcast
dedicated to helping you unlockthe power of effective public
speaking.
I'm Tim Newman, a recoveringcollege professor turned
communication coach, and I'mthrilled to guide you on your
journey to becoming a powerfulcommunicator.
I want to thank each and everyone of you for your support.
It truly means the world to me.
If you have questions or if youwant something covered on the

(00:30):
podcast, just send me a message.
Please visit timnewmanspeakscomto get your free ebook Top 21
Challenges for Public Speakersand how to Overcome them.
Today's guest is Joel Goldberg.
He's a longtime sportsbroadcaster, speaker and author
known for his work covering theKansas City Royals.
His first book, small Ball BigResults, explored the power of

(00:50):
trust and culture in buildingwinning teams.
Now his latest book, small BallBig Dreams, dives deeper into
the stories of perseverance andpurpose from athletes, leaders
and dreamers.
He also hosts the Rounding theBases podcast, where he
interviews high performersacross different industries.
Joel, welcome to the show.
I'm really excited to have youtoday.

Joel (01:12):
Tim, it's great to be with you and I've enjoyed getting to
know you a little bit beforethese conversations, or this
conversation, and excited to, Iguess, put it on record, so to
speak.

Tim (01:23):
Yeah, me too.
We come from similarbackgrounds, you know from, you
know, being in the sportsindustry, and so I get a lot of
the things that you're doing andthe things that you go through.
And you know I told you you area busy, busy man and you're
doing things at a high level.
And one of the things that youknow I always tell people is, if

(01:44):
you want something done and youwant it done right, make sure
you're you're doing it withsomebody who's busy, because
they're going to be focused atit and they're going to make
sure that it's done rightbecause they're going to put
their name on it.

Joel (01:56):
I think that's right, and I, you know, I think everyone
always seems to say that I'mreally busy, which is true.
I think most of us are busy.
I think that I'm not trying todiscount what I'm doing.
I just I think I shouldn't saymost of us, but I think most of
the people in the world that youand I exist in Tim, the people

(02:18):
that we're networking with, thepeople that we're interviewing
with or interviewing or beinginterviewed by, I just think
that there's that might be thecommon thread that we're all
busy in a hopefully a good way,right.
But also, you know, some of thatis learning over time what to
be busy with or maybe, moreimportantly, what not to be busy

(02:43):
with, and that that's still anongoing journey for me.
I think there are moments everyday that give you signs that
say that this is where youshould be, this is where you
shouldn't be, this is where I'dlike to be, and so I think
that's part of the fun of it,and I think you're right.
If you surround yourself withpeople that are regularly busy,
that doesn't mean they're notgoing to have time for you.
It means that if they do havetime for you, or if their fit is
right that you're going to gettheir best.

Tim (03:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
And it's funny you say some ofthose things you catch yourself
you know at least I do when I'mdoing research on somebody or
getting ready to put somethingtogether and you start watching
the reels and after about thefifth reel you say wait a second
, it's time to stop and get backto the ones I should be looking

(03:23):
at.
But it's fun.
We all kind of get caught inthat trap.
You know you've been doing TVall your career and when we
talked you said you kind ofstumbled on the whole idea of
podcasting and writing books andwhen that happened, you know
you kind of mentioned you hadnervousness or the imposter

(03:45):
syndrome effect.
Where do you think that camefrom?
Did you figure out where itcame from and how did you
eventually get over it?
Because what I'm going to talkabout is you've already done
over a thousand podcastinterviews, let alone interviews
you do on TV.

Joel (04:00):
I think it's a really good question, tim, because the
second part will be an easieranswer than the first, meaning
that I'll tell you in a momenthow don't think that imposter
syndrome necessarily has to beisolated.

(04:27):
To say, someone that is new atsomething, right, there are
people that have done somethingtheir whole lives that may still
have imposter syndrome.
I would suggest that there's alot of work that needs to be
done there, but I think thattypically you're going to find
that if you don't have comfortlevel familiarity with something

(04:47):
, even if it's something youenjoy doing that, you're
probably likely to have some ofimposter syndrome.
For me, so I don't know whereit came from, other than I'm
someone that's wired to beconfident in what I do once I've
done it enough to prove tomyself that I'm good enough.

(05:08):
Now I think the noise in ourheads for a lot of us that get
in the way and lead to thatimposter syndrome is the
comparison game, which is a verydangerous thing for all of us
to do.
We do it with our weight, we doit with our bank accounts, we
do it with something silly likethe cars that we have Not
everybody right the houses, andon and on.

(05:31):
So it's that sort of good oldkeeping up with the Joneses, and
some people never experiencedthat.
Other people experience itforever.
Maybe some of us start to say Idon't care about this, I don't
care about that.
A little bit of what I wassaying before of of of just not
focusing on the things that areunimportant, that don't matter,

(05:52):
or that you suddenly realizedon't matter.
But I think for me, for forgetting over the imposter
syndrome, look, I've had it,everything I've done in my life.
So I'll start with TV.
For years I mean even once I'dbeen in the business four or
five, six years.
I just remember I was intelevision news for my first 10
years in this profession.

(06:13):
That what do we do intelevision news?
We watch the competition, right, I was at Fox and St Louis.
We watched the NBC, the CBS, uh, and and and wanted to see what
their newscasts were.
And I found myself regularly,as we watched the sportscast,
saying I'm not as good as thatguy.
I like that guy, I'm not asgood as him.
And eventually I got to a pointwhere those thoughts never

(06:38):
crossed my mind.
When I look at people that dowhat I do now, I may think
they're better than me.
I may think I'm better thanthem, but if those thoughts even
pop in my head, it pretty muchdefers to who cares.
Am I good at what I do and whatcan I do to get better at it?
Right, and you know, I've donethousands of pre and post game

(07:02):
shows with the Royals.
And so when people say to me,do you get nervous?
I said no, do you get nervouswhen you go to work every single
day?
This is what I do every day.
And there came a certain point.
So to me, one of the cures toimposter syndrome is repetition.
Right, because if you haveenough repetition one, you get
more comfortable with it.
You start to convince yourselfthat wait a minute, I belong.
And oh, by the way, they keephaving me come back and do these

(07:23):
repetitions.
That must mean they like me.
And so you know, 30 years in TV.
By no means do I have all theanswers, but I, I and and I can
get better.
But I don't waste any space inmy head about the question of do
I belong now with the podcast?
It took a while.
Less about the interviewing,because I've interviewed people

(07:44):
my whole life, and more aboutthe logistics.
It took a while.
Less about the interviewing,because I've interviewed people
my whole life, and more aboutthe logistics right, how do I
record this?
Does it sound right?
How much time do I have tospend editing and all these
things that I wanted to make itperfect.
I got comfortable with that andthe system that I had in place
and the team that over time Iwas able to build to help me
with that.
And then you know the speaking.
I'm living in a business worldonly seven, eight years of doing

(08:07):
that, along with my baseball,and I'm comfortable on stage.
But there are moments where Isay, wait a minute, do I belong
here?
They're better speakers,there's better this.
And that's where I go back tothe TV experience and say you've
been here before and you'refighting your own battle.
No one else is fighting it, butyou.
How often does impostersyndrome truly originate from

(08:30):
outside of your own brain?
I think very rarely.

Tim (08:32):
Very rare, very rare.
When we spoke a couple weeksago leading up to this, one of
the last things I said to you isI got a lot of pressure on me
and the first thing you said wasno, you don't Just be you is.
I got a lot of pressure on meand the first thing you said was
no, you don't Just be you.
And what I said was that's justme putting pressure on myself,

(08:56):
wanting to be very good at whatI do and, like you said, that I
think is a sign of a goodprofessional wanting to, to, to
be um, better and getting better, and and putting that pressure
on yourself.
But then give yourself somegrace to say I've done this
before.

Joel (09:13):
Yeah.

Tim (09:14):
And just be you.
Just just come out and be you.
And to your point is you know,I've done not nearly as many
interviews as you, but I've donehundreds of interviews across
my my career.
I've done not nearly as manyinterviews as you, but I've done
hundreds of interviews acrossmy career.
It's the times that I'm not me,that the interviews suck.
It's the times I'm justcomfortable and go in and have
the conversation and they turnout great.

Joel (09:36):
Just be you, get over that , whatever that inner talk is,
and just go be you.
And I think, like you know, Iremember when you made that
comment to me and I'm like in mymind, I'm sitting there
thinking like, well, what do youhave to be nervous about?
Right, you know like what.
And so I only mention thatbecause it's proving the point

(09:57):
that both you and I justmentioned.
Right, that little voice wasn'tcoming from me, Right, it was
coming from you.
And if anything, I would saythat, and I've had a lot of
people that have beeninterviewed, but very, very
successful people that maybehaven't done a lot of interviews
, and suddenly it's you know, ifthey're local and they know me,

(10:18):
it's oh my gosh, but I'm goingto get interviewed by Joel
Goldberg.
Maybe, first off, I would tellyou that's not that big of a
deal, but, second of all, maybeyou're in better hands because
of that, because if you're beinginterviewed by me, or if you're
interviewing me, and I'msomeone that's done this a
million times, part of what Iknow how to do is lift people up
right it is my job.

(10:40):
I think that the best studiohost in all of sports is Ernie
Johnson Jr.
Yes, and part of what makes himso good is that without him,
there's some replacements forhim that do a great job too.
But when he's not there, thedynamic changes, even though the
spotlight more than anything ison Charles Barkley and
Shaquille O'Neal and, quietly,on Kenny Smith as well.

(11:02):
But he has a way of bringingthe best out in those guys and
it doesn't take much with them,but in keeping it going.
He's such a professional andthat's what I try to do with
with my role as a host and aninterviewer.
And so you know your brain wentto oh, my gosh, I hope I could
live up to, to whatever it is inyour mind the expectations, the
perception that this guy doesit every day.

(11:23):
And and I'm gosh, I hope I canlive up to whatever it is in
your mind the expectations, theperception that this guy does it
every day.
And I'm putting terrible wordsin your mouth here, but I'm just
an amateur and you're not, butyou know what I mean Like I've
done this my whole life for 30years, and then when I had a Bob
Costas on my podcast.
I'm going through the.
Oh my gosh, I've got to provemyself to him and I said, said,

(11:45):
just go have fun.
Like you're interviewing youridol, you're interviewing one of
your heroes and, by the way, hewas never sitting there
thinking I hope this kid's goodenough.
He doesn't meet my expectations.
No, he wanted to support me andbring the best out in me, and
so that that's what we allshould be doing for each other.
And then, when that voice comesin your head, realize that the
most destructive piece to thisequation is yourself, and

(12:07):
there's a good chance the personon the other end actually is
going to help you be better yeah, there's such good points and
you know you like say you'vedone just over a thousand just
podcast interviews, let aloneall the tv interviews that
you've done throughout yourcareer.

Tim (12:26):
And so what else have you learned about communication and
how has your style or how hasyour approach changed through
the years?
Because we talked about howtechnology has changed and how
we have to reach out to youngergenerations differently and
approach them differently, buthow has your style changed?

Joel (12:48):
So I think I this is an important question because I
think it'll apply to all of usin whatever we're doing
Certainly speakers, certainlyinterviewers, but anybody, right
?
I mean, if you're meeting withpeople.
I think that there are two endsto this.
The one is that you're I don'tknow if I'd call it style, but
the way you get to where youneed to go has to change and

(13:08):
adapt to the times and thepeople that you're dealing with.
I think it's extremelyimportant to for lack of a I
don't know a better metaphor youneed to be a chameleon for
whatever you're doing.
That's true in sales, that'strue in my job, or whatever
you're doing, that's true insales, that's true in my job.
And so I'm going to talkdifferently to the ballplayer

(13:31):
that grew up in ruralMississippi versus the kid that
grew up, you know, near Southbeach, or different than the way
that I might correspond withthe guy from Venezuela versus
the guy that grew up in thesuburbs.
It's not going to have anythingto do with, you know, financial
or economic or anything likethat background.
It's going to have to do withthe fact that can I find

(13:53):
commonality with them and theirbackground, common ground in
connecting with them.
There are very few athletesthat I'm talking to that have a
whole lot in common with me.
I mean, they're all athletesand I was never a great athlete
and I grew up in the suburbs andthe middle-class family and
some of them did and some ofthem didn't, but I've been

(14:15):
around enough people.
So here's a great example whenI worked in St Louis about nine
and a half years and my sixyears in news there before I got
into a regional sports but Imean I was doing sportscasts on
the news was not just pro sportsand college sports, it was a
lot of high school sports, whichwas the greatest thing because

(14:36):
you really meet people indifferent communities that way.
Well, on any given day I couldwalk into a gym with kids
playing basketball that liveddown the street in million
dollar homes and the next day Icould be walking into a public
school in the inner city whereyou're going through metal
detectors and those kidscertainly were growing up in
different houses and differentsituations and I I've got to

(15:01):
adjust to who I'm talking to andwhat their backgrounds are.
And when I find that commonground then I can generally
build a little bit more trustand have a more authentic
interview.
So that constantly is changingand it's not just based on
socioeconomic status or anythinglike that.

(15:21):
Think about the way, say, a 25,25-year-old athlete is
communicating right now.
They might be communicating viaInstagram.
They might be communicating ifthey're from South American or
Central American country.
We've got a lot of Venezuelaand Dominican players.
Typically, they are going tomessage you on phone via

(15:44):
WhatsApp, versus your typicaliPhone, you know, imessage or
whatever it's called nowadays.
That's because of where they'refrom the data packages.
That is, their text messagingin Central America.
So if I want to get theirattention, I need to meet them
where they are at.

(16:05):
So that's what's constantlychanging and I need to be up on
the times.
Is there a new social mediathat they're all jumping in on
and can I follow them there?
Because there might be somecommonality or something that I
see that enables me to speaktheir language.
I'm not talking English,spanish, I'm talking about
what's interesting to them,right.
What never changes is who youare as a person.

(16:27):
What never changes is the inside.
I guess you'd call it this iswho I am.
This is who I always am going tobe.
You can be a chameleon andstill stay authentic, right, and
so that's the key toever-changing communication, and
in my world, I joke all thetime that the athletes keep

(16:49):
getting younger as I keepgetting older.
Why do they keep gettingyounger?
Because they move on or theyretire, and I'm still here.
The athletes coming into thebig leagues today are totally
different in the way they goabout their business, totally
different in the way they goabout their business, the way
they communicate what'simportant to them in 2025 versus
what they were in 2015 or whatthey were in 2005 or back in

(17:12):
1994 when I got into thebusiness.
That will continue to change.
It's not all that differentthan what you would see in any
workplace in any profession.
So you hear about Gen Z versusGen X or boomers or whatever it
is.
That's true in sports as well,and we those of us that are
older we have to figure out howto meet them there, and when we

(17:35):
do, they'll come meet us wherewe're at too.

Tim (17:38):
Absolutely.
That's such a good point.
I do, and I've told people thisfor a while.
It's up to us from you know,the quote unquote, older
generation to be the ones thatare leading the way and reaching
out to the younger generations,to where they, to meet them,
where they're at.
It's not up to them to come tous, and if we, if we want to sit

(17:58):
over here and say they've gotto come to us, you know, let me
know how that works out for you,because you're going to be the
dinosaur, the ones left behind,that's right.
And that's just.
That's just the way that it is.
You know, you mentioned theword trust, and trust to me is
is paramount in in everything,relationships and trust to me

(18:19):
it's the number one thing in inlife period.
It's the number one thing inlife period In what you do.
Trust is so important becauseif you lose the trust of one
athlete, you lose the lockerroom.
So true.

Joel (18:37):
So true, we'll spell this out to any profession too.
If you lose the trust ofwhoever the influential person
is in an organization the CEO,the head of you know sales,
whatever it is then you reallyhave a lot of work to do.
And, yes, you need to earneveryone's trust.

(18:58):
But it does start from the topfor me.
So, for instance, with theKansas city Royals the team that
I've covered now for 18 seasonsmost of those 18 seasons, not
all, but minus my first 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, no 8, 9, 10.
So 18 seasons about 15 withSalvador Perez, who is their, I

(19:24):
believe, but most likely futureHall of Famer.
He's 34 years old.
He broke into the big leaguesat 21.
He became a superstar.
He's the captain of the team.
There are some younger playersthat are emerging as the next
superstars and he would say thatit's their team, but everyone
on that team would tell you itis Salvador Perez's team.

(19:45):
It all starts with him.
So if something is wrong orsomething's not right, yes, I
can go on a one-to-one basiswith a player or coach or
whatever it is, but if it'ssomething bigger than that, if
there's something going on, I'mgoing right to him and it's
happened before.
We have the type ofrelationship where he could pull

(20:06):
me aside and say hey, I need totalk to you about something.
This is bothering me.
Or some of the guys are talkingand this is going on Private
conversations that I wouldn'treveal the specifics to but I
know that we have thatrelationship where, if he sees
something that is wrong on myend, on my team's end, whatever
it is, that he's going to cometo me and I believe that, as

(20:30):
long as he, as long as he feelslike he is being heard and that
it is being addressed and that Ihave best interests in hand.
By the way, that doesn't meansaying that they're playing
great when they're struggling.
It means being fair, it meansbeing authentic.
Like I talked about before, ifsomething is not right which, by

(20:53):
the way, he may not be right,they may not be right, but their
perception is all that mattersand it's their world.
I'm just living in it, even ifthose names change over time.
If he and I have thatrelationship and I believe we do
to talk about those things andaddress those things and make
sure we're on the same pagewhich, by the way, comes with

(21:13):
some language barrier andcultural difference too he's
from Venezuela.
If I have that covered, thennot that it's a guarantee, but
that's where it starts Right.
And if he has my back, whichcomes from the trust that you
talk about, then I've got agreat starting point, because

(21:33):
what happens is when new playerscome in, he tells them this
guy's okay, or they observe myinteractions with him, which, by
the way, come with a lot of uhof, of giving me grief over
things and and messing with meall the time, like that's part
of trust too, is that if you, ifyou respect someone, you can
pull pranks and mess with themall the time.
If the intent is to have fun,if the intent is to embarrass

(21:56):
them, then there really isn'ttrust at all.
Right, and so with him and withme, it's a great back and forth.
Everybody sees that in front ofthe camera, off the camera, in
the clubhouse, on the field, onthe bus, whatever it is, on the
plane, and so it starts withthat and that to me, tim, it's
not in the job description, it'snot in the courses you take to

(22:18):
starting to become one of these.
You know, journalists,broadcasters, whatever.
The trust piece is what I doevery single day that I'm at the
ballpark and then, oftentimes,when I'm not at the ballpark,
little touch points.
That's the job right there.
It starts with that.
Yes, you need talent.
Yes, you need this, this, this,this, but if you can't do that
piece, you got nothing.

Tim (22:39):
You got nothing and and you , you mentioned there's there's
that you have to be authenticand there's that fine line of of
you know and this goes for forreally any relationship you know
, if something's not right, youhave to say that you're doing
what your job entails and you'redoing what you think is best

(23:09):
and then maybe sorting it outlater and having that
understanding.
But you're never going to havethat understanding if you don't
have trust to begin with.
And you know, having toughconversations is, to me, it's
one of the things that actuallybuilds trust, because we can't
always I don't know anybody whowants a yes person around them

(23:29):
all the time oh, you're great,you're great, you're great,
you're great Because that numberone, it doesn't make anything
truly better and number two,it's not being honest.
So you don't really have anytrust.
So you've got to be able tohave those tough conversations
and be okay with it and be ableto move forward got to be able
to have those toughconversations and be okay with
it and be able to move forward.

Joel (23:52):
I agree, and they don't all have to be tough either.
I mean it's just, but I thinkthat those conversations become
easier.
It goes both ways.

Tim (23:56):
I mean those conversations become easier because you've
built trust and you build bettertrust because you have those

(24:17):
conversations.
So I think they go hand in hand.
And you were searching for ajob and how you went about, you
know saying, well, I'm going tobe in the area, you got time for
me.
Number one, that's.
That's an ingenious way to tobuild an audience.
But the things that I reallyenjoyed was your throughing
binder, how you would go and youwould.

(24:41):
You would take notes and thenbe able to refer back to them to
help build connections andbuild relationships, and I think
that's something you know.
I kind of do the same thing IfI go and meet somebody, I'll
take notes and I'll put it intothe contact.
Oh, you know what?
You know one of the things yousaid you were going on vacation.
How was vacation?
And I think that's somethingthat's actually lost on the

(25:12):
younger generations today thatact and I'll give a little bit
more detail.

Joel (25:20):
You read about it in the first book.
But that act of knocking ondoors and cold calling is what
got me in this business and Idon't think, if I hadn't done
that, I don't know what mycareer is.
It's not this.
I'm certainly not talking toyou.
I don't have 30 years in TV.
I don't know that I'm writingbooks and hosting podcasts and

(25:43):
any of that stuff.
But what happened was and youknow what, when I look back at
it now, yeah, it actually was akind of ingenious move.
I didn't know that at the timeand it was desperation for me
because I was something like ohfor 25.

(26:03):
In my attempts to get a job inTV, I was mailing out tapes.
In my attempts to get a job inTV, I was mailing out tapes, and
nowadays, for anyone wanting tobe in TV, you're just sending a
link to YouTube.
It's so much easier, but so iseverybody else.
So back then, everybody wassending a resume tape in the
mail.
Now everybody's sending a linkto a resume reel.
Great, what sets you apart?

(26:26):
The question I like to askpeople all the time is what
makes you different?
And if your insurance companyor your bank has so much better
rates than everyone else, then Iguess that's it, but in all
likelihood it's probably prettysimilar, right?
So if that's the case, whatsets you apart?
And so for me it's not like Isaid well, if I go knocking on
doors, I'm going to get this.
It's not like I said, well, ifI go knocking on doors, I'm

(26:47):
going to get this.
But what I did know, and Idon't to this day.
I don't know if anyone gave methis suggestion or not.
If they do, I don't remember it.
I would have thanked themprofusely.
But I think it was justdesperation of saying you know
what, if I don't figure this outand I'm not getting a sniff,

(27:08):
and we'll take it from there.
And it's not really what mydream was or what I studied for.
But okay.
So I started calling TV stationsand smaller markets I know I
couldn't get in to start in thebigger ones and I would ask for
the news director.
There weren't really websitesyet and I think I had a recorded
or written copy on a piece ofpaper of a script calling from

(27:35):
my parents landline in theirbedroom, so that I wasn't in the
kitchen, so that I wouldn't bedistracted, and I'd read off
this thing.
Hi, my name is Joel Goldberg.
Mr Smith, nice to meet you.
I just graduated from theUniversity of Wisconsin.
I know you don't have anyopenings right now, which, by
the way, in hindsight, I thinkwas a little bit of a of of a

(27:56):
smart move too, because if theywere getting phone calls it was
hey, I want to see if you haveany openings.
Well, that gets annoying in hisshoes or her shoes every single
time.
So instead of already asking aquestion that you should have
known the answer for, I wassaying I know you don't have
anything, I'm not hitting you upfor that, but I'm passing

(28:20):
through town next week.
Would you be around at anypoint next Tuesday, wednesday or
Thursday?
And if so, could I stop in andhand deliver a tape and
introduce myself in person?
I was never going to any ofthose towns until they said yes.
And as soon as they said yes, Igot in my car, I drove across
the country.
I then tried to double down,triple down, quadruple down on
any of those markets, or anymarkets close, and said hey, I

(28:43):
am passing through town on thesedays, could I stop by?
And suddenly a trip fromChicago to upstate New York
wasn't just one station, it wasfour or five stations and and
suddenly it was 20, 25, 30stations and keeping copious
notes and following up withthank you notes and not being
too annoying, and then suddenly,as they got job openings, I

(29:05):
moved to the top of the line.
I was not better than anyoneelse.
I would argue that I might'vebeen worse than many others.
I wasn't that talented.
I had the passion, the desire,the work ethic, but what I did
was I opened up my own doorswhen no doors were open and then
they said come on in.
And that's where I provedmyself.

Tim (29:23):
Yeah, and it's so important .
What I don't think a lot ofpeople truly understand is there
are so many people out thereapplying for the same jobs that
you are.
Just think about it from thecollege perspective.
You went to the University ofWisconsin.
You sat in a class of I don'tknow 50 or 60 other students.

(29:47):
You graduated with 1,000 plus,and they're all applying for
jobs.
That's just one institution.
That's just one institution inone state.
Yeah, and there's so manypeople applying for these jobs.
You have to make yourself standout and you know, just in the
sports industry as an example,right, you know everything is

(30:08):
done online.
Like you said, let's just takea sales job for, let's just say,
kansas City.
Kansas City is going to put ajob on a listserv.
They're going to get 5,000 or6,000 resumes for a job that
pays them $30,000 a year, them$30,000 a year.
How are you going to makeyourself stand out in that crowd

(30:34):
and marketplace?
And sometimes you have to dothings that are really outside
the box to be seen, and part ofthat for you was driving across
country.
You know, for somebody else itcould be, you know, doing
informational interviews, itcould be, you know, doing
informational interviews.
It could be, you know, meetingat a networking event, you know

(30:54):
when are they going to be there.
Actually paying for a ticketand going to a game and running
into somebody.
It could be any of those thingsthat are going to make you
stand out, that's going to putyou to the top of the list.
And then, even when you submitthat resume, it still has to be
perfect.

Joel (31:13):
I mean, I think that's the name of the game for just about
everything.
And, for instance, I'll have ayoung student and again, this
can apply to any profession anyage that will say, well, I say
young student, I mean anaspiring broadcaster that's
maybe in college or even highschool.
I got to go cover the blah,blah, blah and you know, the SEC

(31:35):
basketball tournament and I gotto interview all these cool
people.
Great, it's very unlikelyAnyone's going to hire you
because of that Right now.
Enjoy that and then get back toschool and make sure you're
doing everything, not just thebasketball, because one it's the
reps.
And again, this is true for anyprofession.
We get fixated on wanting to dothe biggest things, the things

(32:00):
that bring the most money, themost high profile.
Whatever it is the big project,and, yes, that's ultimately
what we want to be doing.
It is the big project and, yes,that's ultimately what we want
to be doing, but you don'treally get there.
That young student interviewingthe star of the game in a big
college basketball game, thatmight be the moment that gets
them the job, but in alllikelihood, in the grand scheme

(32:23):
of things, is just a small pieceof the puzzle.
Right, that made you better.
I talked about imposter syndrome.
Well, when you have lessimposter syndrome, you're more
confident.
It's just another notch on thebelt.
But my question would be thiswhile you were there covering
the fill in the blank the sectournament did you meet some

(32:44):
people in network?
Did you?
Did you meet some people?
Because, guess what, for themost part, those athletes aren't
going to recommend you, but thesports information people, the
camera crew, might talk aboutwhat a joy you were to work with
and your reputation, and so allthese breadcrumbs that you're

(33:05):
leaving that also potentiallylead you to more connections.
I always like to say it this wayyou never know when you're
going to say it this way.
You never know when you'regoing to meet your next boss, or
you never know when you'regoing to meet the person that
introduces you to your next boss.
And so, to me, everyopportunity has to involve a
chance to build relationshipsand network.
It's what I do more often thanthan anything with my business,

(33:26):
and certainly it's what I'mdoing most days when I I go into
a baseball clubhouse.
I might need a soundbite or two, I might need a nugget or two
for an in-game story, but forthe most part.
I'm catching up, I'm connectingwith people, I'm building
relationships.
And when you go back and talkingabout those numbers, I don't
know how many people were in mygraduating class at Wisconsin.
Yeah, there might have been 50or 60 people in a classroom.

(33:48):
The smaller journalism classesmight have had 20.
But there were thousands andthousands in my graduating class
.
That's a big school and I liketo say it this way and I don't
know the numbers.
But let's say that back in 1994, there were 10,000 kids around
the country graduating from somekind of program.

(34:09):
They might not have even beenkids and they all wanted a TV
job.
And let's say that there were10,000 people that wanted that
job and there are only a hundredjobs available and I would
argue that it was probably morethan 10,000.
And the number of jobsavailable on TV was probably
less than a hundred.
In realistic markets, how am Iin that 1%?

(34:30):
You better be the smoothest,greatest fill in the blanket.
Whatever you're doing at ayoung age.
You better be so much betterthan anyone else that the the
recruiter or the employer says,oh my gosh, this is the greatest
thing I've ever seen.
Guess what Most of us aren't,that Most of us, in sports terms

(34:52):
are not Michael Jordan or KobeBryant or LeBron James or Tom
Brady or Patrick Mahomes and, bythe way, tom Brady or Albert
Pujols were not thought of thatway to start anyway, until they
became that.
But if you don't have thatwhich is most of us, those are
the outliers then you better dosomething to set yourself apart.
The fact that I became one ofthose 1%, or whatever the number

(35:15):
is above everybody else, was mebasically knocking the door
down and creating thoseopportunities.
Have I been lucky in my career?
Absolutely, but I think a lotof the luck had to do with
creating those opportunities.
And then, as I often say topeople, tim, take every open
door, whether somebody opens itfor you or you open it for

(35:37):
yourself, and then it's up toyou to stay.
And that is how you go aboutyour business, the way you treat
people, how reliable you are,authenticity, everything we
talked about before.
Take every open door, openevery door, and then it's up to
you to stay.

Tim (35:52):
Absolutely.
And again, you're right on.
And there's another chapter inyour I believe it was in the
first book about reading theroom, about when to ask
questions and when to not askquestions, when to push, when to
push forward, when to set stepback.
Um, and uh, I think the storywas about, uh, mike Moustakis uh

(36:16):
, that was that was in the book.
Um, you could tell he wasn'thaving a bad day, but you needed
something from him, but you gotit.
You got what you needed fromfrom a different source.
Tell, tell that story, cause Icause I think it's it's critical
to understand.
Yeah, we, we want to, asespecially as young professor
professionals, we want to behard charging and go after
things and go after things andgo after things, but we also

(36:37):
have to learn that there's atime to take a breath, take a
step back and read the room.

Joel (36:45):
It's.
I feel like at some point thatread the room expression
probably got overdone which Iwish it wasn't, because I
haven't figured out a betterexpression for it and I think
it's one of the most importantcharacteristics that you can
have in almost any profession.
Look, there are someprofessions where certain jobs

(37:09):
don't involve as muchinteraction.
Think about someone that's jobis coding, some kind of
programming engineer.
That they're not out there onthe front lines, I would argue
it still matters, because ifthey can build trust in a
relationship with the businessdevelopment person, that could

(37:29):
better than understand theirneeds and they can understand
each other.
So I do think it applies foreveryone, but in certainly in my
, in my case, where I need liketo me the sale.
I'm not sure that I'm asalesman.
I mean, I'm certainly trying tosell my speaking services, my
books, uh, but more thananything, what I'm trying to

(37:52):
sell is these players, coachesand staff, the opportunity to
interview them.
Yeah, and those sometimes canbe some big time interviews.
You know whether it's someone Iknow or someone that I don't
really know that well, and it'sthat Bob Costas podcast where
it's like, wow, this is theopportunity of a lifetime, or it

(38:14):
could just be the day-to-daywith a player, and I
intentionally overthink everybit of it and I don't think I do
it in a debilitating way.
I don't think I do it in adebilitating way.
I could probably save somebrain cells and use some of that
limited space up there onsomething else.

(38:36):
But for the most part, I thinkit's time well spent.
And here's what I mean byreading body language I'm not a
body language expert by readingthe room.
When you understand when is theright time, when you
consistently do that, people aremore likely to say yes to you.

(38:57):
Yes, and when you don't havethe ability to do that, or you
choose not to do it or you'reoblivious to it, then you build
a reputation of potentiallybeing a nuisance or you
potentially become the guy, thegirl that when you walk in and
someone sees you whether that besomeone you're selling to or,

(39:19):
in my world, the player and theysee you coming, there's some
version, whether it's subliminalor not, of oh gosh, here we go
again.
And so the Mike Moustakas storyis there was a day that I walked
into our clubhouse, the lockerroom.
It was at home in Kansas City,I don't know how many years ago
it was, and Mike Moustakas wasthe star, slugging third baseman

(39:44):
, recently retired and anintense personality, good guy
but very intense.
And you understand that, justlike any other team, profession
group that you're involved in,that everybody has different
personalities.
Yes, you got your extroverts,you got your introverts, you got
your guys that are chill, yougot those that are intense.

(40:04):
So one you got to understandhow people are wired and if you
spend enough time around them,you understand that you need
take notes, at least mentalnotes, of what works and what
doesn't for them.
So, for instance, we had a starnamed Alex Gordon.
Alex would never say no to aninterview, although he was
pretty reserved and quiet, buthe was very regimented with his

(40:28):
workouts and his routine.
If I did anything to get in theway of that routine, that was
that eye roll, that was that notreading the room, that was him
saying oh, I don't want to dothis again.
But I always made it a point torecognize the pace of what he
was walking through a room.
If he looked like he waswalking into the room, to not go

(40:49):
sit down at his locker this isbefore the game or we're open in
there for a while but he lookslike he's going in there because
he left one thing on his chairand he's in and out and you can
read that by their pace.
It's probably not a good time toask him to do something.
And you know what people hateto do or maybe not hate, but are
uncomfortable doing they'reuncomfortable.
No, when you can put people ina comfortable spot, they will

(41:11):
come back to you almost everytime, and when that becomes your
reputation they don't even needto think about it.
So in Mike Moustakis' case,intense, certainly willing to do
interviews.
He might not say yes toeveryone, but most of them I
know all that already.
My producer that day for ourpregame show had said can you

(41:32):
get a soundbite from mikemoustakis on I don't know what
the topic was on on his successof hitting to the opposite field
lately?
Sure, I walk into the room, Isee him.
He's there.
There's the first win for me.
He's in there.
I don't have to go ask himwhere he's at, because if he's
in the shower I'm not going inthere if he's in the training
room, I'm not allowed in there.
If he's in the food room, I'mnot allowed in there.

(41:52):
If he's in the batting.
But if he's in there, I got achance, okay.
Now I look at him and he'sfrantically texting on his phone
or something like that, and helooks very distracted.
All right, I'm going to kind ofobserve him from a distance and
if that seems to calm down andI could see body language that
he's relaxed, then I'm going togo up to him and ask him if he

(42:16):
has a moment.
But he never got there and Imade a decision that you know
what.
This does not look like a goodtime.
So now I need to ask myself thequestion how important is this?
Well, I just need a soundbite.
It's 30 seconds, that's quick,that's easy.
But you know what?
I can get that answer from thehitting coach, right, I just
need to know what he's doingright lately that's made him be

(42:37):
successful with this.
It could come from the coach,it could come from the manager,
it could even come from anotherteammate, if need be.
I have a lot of other optionsthat are going to protect my
relationship with him, whetherhe knows it or not.
So I made the decision to passand get the hitting coach
instead.
Now I watch another member ofthe media, one that doesn't have
I don't even remember who itwas but the access, or they're

(43:01):
not there as often as me.
They're there maybe once a weekbecause they've got other
things that they do.
This is all I do.
Well, he walks up to MooseDawkus, nicknamed Moose, and
says hey, moose, you got aminute.
And in my head I'm like hedoesn't have a minute.
Look at him.
And Moose stands up, grabs abat and kind of walks briskly
past the guy.
He goes nope, got to run.

(43:21):
And the guy says well, youcan't blame me for trying, can
you?
And moose, kind of who didn'tknow the guy very well.
Anyway, he was hands up in theair like okay, and I thought
victory for me, because thatwould have been my fate, even
though I had a betterrelationship with him.
A week later I need anothersound bite from him.
And we're on the road inminnesota maybe a week later and

(43:46):
it didn't have to be him eitherand I see him.
He's out before battingpractice, sitting by himself in
the dugout, looking real relaxed, just kind of taking it all in,
and I said hey, moose, do youhave a second to do a quick 30,
you know 30 seconds or somethinglike that.
He said sure, and then I justleft him a little bit of a hint.
I said you know, I actuallywanted to get you last week back
at home but you looked reallybusy and I didn't want to slow

(44:09):
you down or distract you.
You look like you had someother things going on.
He goes oh thanks, I reallyappreciate that.
And then he did it.
And they're not sitting theresaying joel gets this right
every time, so I'll do it, orjoel doesn't get.
But there's something in theirhead that says, oh, that guy, or
oh, yeah, he's a good guy andso it's understanding.
And then, piece of that, tim,is that there's some guys that

(44:30):
will always say yes, no matterwhat they like it, they're good
at it, they just they, theyenjoy it.
But you know what?
There are going to be some dayswhere I say, yeah, that's easy.
But you know what I've gottenin the last two days?
I've got him the last threedays.
I I've got him the last threedays.
I'm going to take a littlebreak here, whether he needs it
or not, so that I'm not the guythat every single time and then

(44:53):
you follow that, your instinctsand the body language, the
reading the room.
It works almost every time.

Tim (45:01):
Yeah, it's so important.
And that also kind of leadsinto the trust, the relationship
, the whole idea of now you'repart of the team, the
relationship, the whole idea ofnow you're, you're part of the
team, right, you're, you're part, you're, you're, you're, you're
not Joe Goldberg, the announcer, you're part of the team,
you're, you're part of theorganization, you're, you're,
you're, you're with them, right.

(45:22):
And that that kind of showed inin a kind of a another
situation in your second book uh, your, your chapter about your
mom and that she was in ahorrific scenario, um, horrible
4th of July shooting in inChicago, and and, uh, I believe

(45:43):
it was Nikki Lopez kind of knewwhat was going on and he texted
you and basically said anythingfor a teammate, anything for
family, and that spoke to meagain because it's the
relationship, it's the we're inthis together, we're a family.

(46:05):
But it all starts from thewhole idea of trust 100%, and
you know I'm very careful.

Joel (46:15):
I think that a lot of sports fans or whatever you're a
fan of, you know, a great musicgroup, uh, Hollywood celebrity,
whatever we sometimes buildthese people up to be more than
they are and while they mightknow they're superstars, some
act like it, some don't, andthey're you know they're they

(46:38):
get the spoils of their fameRight, and so they're used to
being treated in a way thatgives them a lot of benefits.
But what they want more thananything is to be treated on a
human level, as a normal person.
And so I always say to you know, like a fan, when they say,
well, what's it like tointerview, it's great.
But they're just people,they're living extraordinary

(47:01):
circumstances.
And so for me, on that day, youknow my, my parents were in a
parade, there was a shooting insuburb of Chicagourb of Chicago,
and I got the message.
I write about this in my mostrecent book, a chapter on my mom
.
And I got the message 4th ofJuly, baseball, I think, later
afternoon game in Houston.
And so I'm out walking aroundtown trying to sweat a little

(47:23):
bit, which didn't take muchwalking in.
July in Houston and I get a textfrom my mom that there was a,
you know, a shooting andeverything's okay, and it didn't
really register on me the waywe are with shootings now that
like no, no, no, that's justlike.
She was walking.
I didn't know all the details,so later she was walking in the
parade towards the shooter andwas about a block and a half

(47:46):
from him and, you know, as I gotto work, it started to sink in
a little bit more and then Iwent through this whole.
I don't like I'm going to do myjob.
I've done shows before afteremotional deaths and you know we
lost our colleague and a mentorof mine in 2011, paul Splittorf

(48:07):
, who was, you know, one of mybroadcast teammates and the
Royals all-time wins leader, andwe lost him to cancer and I had
to host the whole pregame showthat made the announcement of
his death and then the pregameshow that honored him for 30
minutes, and I thought I don'tknow how I'm going to get
through this thing, you know,without crying.
And so those are.
Those are hard moments, butalso a privilege to do it.

(48:29):
Well, on this day.
It wasn't about the privilege,it was about survival because
like oh, I, I love baseball, Ilove what I do, and baseball on
the fourth of july I mean, youknow not to get too cheesy here,
but it's some version everyyear of happy fourth of july and
welcome into america's pastime,as we, you know, bring you into
into Houston for Royals Live.

(48:50):
Nothing better than baseball onIndependence Day.
Well, I didn't say any of thatthat day.
I couldn't, I couldn't getmyself there, and so I just had
to get through it and I did, andnobody at home probably would
have known.
Maybe I looked a little moredown, I don't know, and I had
told Nicky what happened, ormaybe he had asked because he
knew my family was from thereand he was so touched by it.

(49:13):
And then I remember sitting atthe hotel bar that night by
myself, because I, I just Ididn't want to go out anywhere.
I just, I just wanted to sit.
I needed to get out of the room.
You know, nice hotel, fancyhotel, overped cheeseburger,
overpriced glass of wine.
The poor bartender, young kid,made the mistake.

(49:35):
She said to me how's your daygoing?
I'm like you know, and I, and Itold her.
And then I see Nikki.
He's in the lobby near the barwith two other teammates and he
walks over and gives me a bighug and says how are you doing?
Tells a what had happened.
And that's where you say thisis so much more than baseball,
it's humanity.
And that night I sent him atext late and I said hey, I just

(49:57):
want to thank you for you know,caring and reaching out.
And that's where he said, as youjust said, you know, hey, we're
all family, we're all part ofpart of the family and that's
that's what ended up happeningand and so, like I don't, there
are players we've had over theyears that I consider friends of
mine but, like when you talkabout being part of the team,
when I say friends not closefriends by design on my part,
they don't.
They got enough friends, theygot enough people, they got

(50:19):
enough family, they got enoughpeople in their universe.
I don't need to be that andit's not a conflict of interest,
it's just a respective spaceand kind of back to what we were
talking about before, not notbeing the eye roll, not being
the guy that can't read the room, and so I work hard at those
relationships.
I'm part of the family.
I've had guys like Alex Gordon,one of the Royals, greats of

(50:40):
all time, say that you are myfavorite because of the way that
you went about your business.
You are one of us.
I've had Eric Hosmer, one ofthe great leaders and Royals of
all time, say you're, you're myfavorite because we always
respected you in the way youwent about your business.
It's nothing more than that tome, and I don't mean to minimize
it.
I just mean that I don't thenview that as I'm one of them.
They are in this very select,unique fraternity and when I say

(51:04):
select, there are 26 players ona roster.
There are not many people inthe world that are doing what
they're doing.
They deserve their ownfraternity.
Whatever it's called I thinkit's called right major league
baseball player.
I happen to live in thatecosystem, I happen to live in
that world and I and I know howto live in that world.
That piece of humanity fromnicky lopez that day he's one of

(51:26):
the best I've ever worked withreminded me of what I already
knew.
But it doesn't then give me thelicense to say let's be best
friends.
Let me go hang out and sit withyou guys in the food room.
Let me go sit at your lockerand be.
I'm not that I've got my ownworld Right, and so it's
recognizing all of this andputting it all together.

Tim (51:46):
Yeah, it's.
It's so important to understandthat on many different levels.
Number one they are human, andyou know they.
They get it when, when humanthings happen.
And it's funny because peoplethink that everybody that's
working in sports is it's thisglamorous, you highfalutin,

(52:09):
luxurious thing, and it's so farfrom the truth, for you know
the people that aren't athletes.
It's work, I mean it's work.
We get up every day.
I mean, could you imagine?
People don't truly understandthis, and baseball is probably

(52:29):
the best example.
You know, think of the ticketsalesperson.
You know they're there everyday.
If there is a homestand, guesswhat?
They're there every day.
They're there way before thegame starts.
They're there after the game isover.
You may be there until 12, 31o'clock in the morning, and then
on Tuesday and then Wednesday.

(52:49):
You still have to be back inthe office at 8, 39 o'clock
doing your regular job, gettingready for the next game and all
those other types of things.
It's not what people trulythink that it is, but we still
have to do it and keep that life, like you say, keep that life
separated.
You're, you may be friendly,but you're not necessarily

(53:09):
friends because, like I said,you don't.

Joel (53:11):
It's not your world, it's not our world, it's, but it's
but this is what it is, as, whenmy book came out and I reached
out to you know a lot of people,uh, whether they were in the
book, for sure, or past podcastguests or people in my network
that I thought might beinterested in the book and

(53:33):
selfishly, might be willing topromote it for me and I don't
ask a lot, of, a lot of lot ofpeople.
But that that, to me, was amoment where I wanted to cash in
some of my chips, and thatinvolved sending it to a select
amount of players.
Nicky Lopez was one of them,because he had been featured in
that chapter, and so I sent itout to him and then I didn't
hear back.
And that's fine, he's trying tomake a spring training roster,

(53:59):
trying to make a team in springtraining.
And then I heard back from hima few weeks after he initiated
it.
And you know, you don't everwant to be the one that
initiates every singleconversation, every single text.
If it's always starting fromyou, something's wrong, or maybe
it's just not what you think itis, or it's not, it's just not

(54:19):
there, right, I mean?
And so I'm always careful tonot be continuously bothering
people or doing that.
So he got the book.
Great, um, that's it.
And then a few weeks later Igot a text from him just saying
hey, I'm sorry I I been busy Ididn't get a chance to reach out
, but thanks for sending.
I'm about to start reading itright now.

(54:40):
Thank you so much.
We caught up on some things.
I wished him well.
He's trying to make a team.
He's maybe in a little flux atthe moment.
I said hey, you deserve it.
Keep me up to date, or ifthere's anything I can do, let
me know.

Tim (54:56):
And that's it.

Joel (54:59):
I treasure those relationships.
I know what they are, as wejust talked about, right, I
treasure the fact that thoseguys see me.
We started the podcast talkinga little bit about authenticity
and you know, and, and, whilebeing the chameleon still
staying true to yourself.
I treasure the fact that whatthose guys say about me is what

(55:22):
I aspire to be myself, to bereal.
But again, I'm not going tothen say, well, because they
respect me, because they saidthis hey, let's go on family
trips together, let's do it.
It's not that, and you're right,it's all work.
It's work for them, it's workfor me, it's work for the usher,
it's whoever's there, right,and you just hope for everyone.

(55:45):
It's not true for everyone.
You hope that it's the bestwork yes, it is work, but it's
the best work, at least for meand that those relationships,
those stories that's why I liketo share these inspirational
stories, because hopefully it itmakes people better or inspires
people or brings somebodysomething Right those
relationships and sharing thatinsight, hopefully in a way that

(56:08):
maybe gives people a differentperspective beyond what goes on.
Uh, in between the lines, right, Hopefully that that all is I
don't know leads to a greaterpurpose.

Tim (56:19):
Yeah, and that's that, and isn't that the bottom line for
everything?

Joel (56:23):
Totally.

Tim (56:24):
We want to help people and help move them forward, give
them hope, give them somethingthat's going to help move their
life forward.
And I think, at least formyself, that's God's work.
That's what we do.
I had a conversation justliterally just yesterday.

(56:45):
Somebody reached out and saidlook, you know that's what I do.
I help people.
If you need help, let me know,I'll do it.
I'll do whatever I can for you.
And they said well, you don'thave time.
I said don't worry about whatI've got time for.
I decided what I've got time for, yeah, yeah, you know, and you
know that's that's, that's whythat's why we're here.

(57:07):
And you know from you know,sports, sports, it's, it's, it's
what everybody sees.
And I hope that people you knowthat are not in this world, in
this industry, have that samefeeling for their careers that

(57:28):
we do.
You know the passion that it'sthe best work for them.
It's the.
You know, whatever industry youchoose to get into, and that's
one of the things I used to tellmy students I don't really care
what you get into, I want youto be happy, I want you to get
into and that's one of thethings I used to tell my
students I don't really carewhat you get into.
I want you to be happy, I wantyou to be healthy and I want you
to be a productive member ofsociety and if you can do those

(57:48):
things, you're going to besuccessful.

Joel (57:52):
Yeah and I don't want to be naive or insensitive here a
lot of people are never going tofind their dream job or that
job like it's very easy to say,oh that's, that's great goldberg
.
I mean, you get paid to go talkabout baseball every single day

(58:14):
.
Try getting a real job rightand and and and.
I get that.
And, by the way and I don'tthink anyone's insinuating that
it's not a real job but I get itLike, yeah, I work as hard as
everybody else.
I happen to have a lot ofexposure because of the nature
of what I do.
I don't think it makes me anymore important than anyone else,

(58:37):
but I do have an incredibly fun, gratifying job, well beyond
just getting to watch baseball.
The relationships we're talkingabout, the impact on people's
lives, and I could go on and onwith that.
But I think that there arealways little silver linings to
find, and so if you're not whereyou want to be, if this is not

(59:00):
what makes you happy, what canyou find?
Because, look, sometimes wehave to do what enables us to
survive.
Sometimes we have to be able todo what puts food on the table,
what pays for a medical bill,what keeps the heat on whatever
it is like.
We're all going throughdifferent things and we're all
going through something.
So I'm not going to sit thereand tell somebody, go find your

(59:24):
passion, when right now you justneed to survive.
But I think that there arelittle things that you could
find every day, and it mightjust be in a connection, it
might be in a relationship, uh,it might be in helping someone,
it might be in putting a smileon someone's face.
Whatever it is, there arelittle victories and moments
that we have to be able to take,because that's the oxygen that

(59:44):
enables you to keep on going.
And look, I've got bad days too.
It's very easy for me to sitthere and say I'll suck it up.
Here in baseball, everything isgood and, yes, that helps.
Look, I covered 106 lost seasontwo years ago and to me, the

(01:00:05):
relationships still were thesaving grace.
I've made this.
I mentioned paul splitt, or ifone of my mentors that passed
away in 2011.
He taught me to not let theeffects of a baseball game
affect my output and my moodeasier said than done,
especially for a sports fan, butI know now that in that 106
lost season the second worstseason in franchise history I

(01:00:30):
understood how to not let thataffect my job and when we can
rule out the things that we haveno control over and focus on
what we can control.
I know that sounds very cliche.
You tend to be able to find moremeaning in what you're doing,
and so, if you don't get pulleddown those bad rabbit holes and

(01:00:50):
focus on what can I do to bringvalue today, what can I do to
make somebody's life better or,whatever it is, make my own life
better, for that matter.
That, to me, is what gets methrough the tough days, and in
162 game season we'll doanywhere from 150 to 160 games,
depending on national demand ofpulling games from us.

(01:01:11):
We are going to have toughstretches, whether it's losses
or something going on at home,or I'm just burned out because
we've had games.
18 of the last 19 games that's18 games is 36 shows pre-imposed
, plus the in-game stuff.
Uh and again, yes, life's easy,but oh, by the.

(01:01:32):
Our life is good, I'm doingthis, but oh, by the way, this
broke at home and you know,something's going on with this
kid and somebody's sick here andI'm on the road and I can't
help like, yeah, I'm dealingwith stuff too, but when I find
those silver linings, when Ifind something that can bring me
or someone else joy.

(01:01:53):
That's the, that's thatinjector, that's that fuel,
that's that oxygen that keeps usgoing.
And that's what I try to doevery day, which kind of
separates the game and thebaseball from it right.

Tim (01:02:05):
So, and that's really good advice for people again, it
doesn't really matter whatindustry you get into.
It's you got to, you got tofigure out what, like what you
said.
That that's silver lining,because we're all going through
something at any given point inany given day.
So tell us about your two books.
You know I read them, I lovethem, I love the stories.

(01:02:27):
I mean you're talking withKevin Euclid and his micro-brew.
I mean love that.
I mean all really good andinspiring, inspiring stories.

Joel (01:02:40):
So tell us a little bit about books so the the small
ball concept, at least what I'mcalling the small ball concept
if you're a baseball fan, youknow small ball is is the little
things.
It's the bunt, it's, it's thesacrifice, it's moving the
runner over, it's the stuff thatyou do in baseball but I would
say, in any profession in life,that may not show up in the box

(01:03:04):
score, the score sheet, thesales sheet, the company numbers
, but it is what leads to youbeing successful or not being
successful.
Small ball.
I like to ask audiences, andcertainly my podcast guests,
what is small ball to you?
What are the little things?
And so when I went to write myfirst book during the pandemic,

(01:03:29):
I thought I've had hundreds andhundreds of guests that have
answered the question what issmall ball?
And I I decided to break thatdown into the topics that I
found to be the most common andthe most relevant things like
building trust We've talked alot about that.
Reading the room, that'sanother one.
What are all these littlethings that you can do every day
in any profession that aregoing to make you better?

(01:03:52):
I'm not teaching you how to bebetter at insurance or better
banker, better educator, abetter electrician, uhian, and
on and on and on.
But I think all of these Iguess we could call them soft
skills, but I call it small ball.
That was the first book, and soit was 13 different small ball
topics with two stories thatdemonstrated that One was a

(01:04:15):
baseball story, one was abusiness story and I thought I'd
be a little bit cute with it.
And so every chapter was aninning and so we had the top of
the first and the bottom of thefirst.
And you know, chapter four, Ithink, was trust, top of the
fourth, bottom of the fourth.
And one of those chapters wasmy it's really one of my
signature stories my strugglesto earn legendary superstar

(01:04:35):
Albert Pujols' trust.
And it took me until my seventhyear with him to get there, why
it went wrong, what I learnedfrom it, how I could have done
it better.
And the other half of thatfourth inning was the CEO of H&R
Block, who takes over an iconiccompany.
How do you build trust as thenew guy in a position where
there have been a bunch ofdifferent CEOs and a lot of

(01:04:56):
turnover and and taking this youknow franchise or this um
organization you know, into intopresent times while still
honoring their past?
So it was a lot of that book.
Number two, small ball, bigdreams was less about how to get
there and more about the gritand resilient stories of people
that did get there.

(01:05:17):
Whether that be my mom, who wastold coming out of college back
in I think, the 60s I won't givean exact date because she would
not be happy with me, of coursebut she was told, like a lot of
women in that generation, thatwomen coming out of college can
get a job in nursing or teaching.

(01:05:39):
Those are the options.
By the way, I wrote a chapteron Susan Waldman, who was really
the first female voice on talkradio in New York and the first
woman in the broadcast booth,you know, in the actual booth
calling games in Major LeagueBaseball.
She's been a longtime Yankeesannouncer.
She is incredible.
She is around the same age asmy mom.

(01:06:00):
They're in their 70s and she,when I told her the story about
my mom, said she cut me offbefore I could say teacher or
nurse.
And I said my mom was told thatwhen you get out of school you
could only be, and she saidteacher or nurse.
I said yes, she had the samething, and so their stories.

(01:06:23):
Inan's case she was on broadwayand eventually got to a point
where she was getting a littlebit older.
She didn't want to be thetypecast mom in every single
show and and so she'd beensinging anthems at games because
really she had the voice to doit and it gave her a free in to
baseball and sporting events.
She was a diehard sports fan.
She ended up going through hellbeing in sports radio to start

(01:06:46):
and being frozen out andblackballed by everyone else in
the media covering the yankeesand the mets and just all kinds
of awful things and now she'sone of the most respected voices
on radio in in all of baseballand sports, and I consider her
an inspiration.
My mom similar story and my momdid end up being a music
teacher and then, when she hadmy brother and me, she stopped

(01:07:10):
working, did private pianolessons, all that, and she went
back to school.
She went back to communitycollege as we got a little bit
older and got a degree and shestudied what would now be called
coding but computer programming, and then was working for
companies helping build codingprograms and eventually with a
company that was trading stocksand bonds.

(01:07:31):
After we moved to Chicago andthat company was bought out by
this bank and that bank andeventually Bank of America, and
by the end she was traveling theworld and in a leadership
position and in corporateAmerica nothing that she was
ever told she could do.
The crux of this book to me, tim, because I think there's a lot
of you know, I just think wherewe've always heard you could do

(01:07:53):
anything you want.
You know, dream of anything andyou know anything can be true.
Dream of anything and you knowanything can be true.
And and I believe that for themost part but these people all
achieve their dreams becausethey played small ball and did
the little things right.
The other piece to it is thatvery rarely do these dreams turn

(01:08:15):
out the way we thought, andthat doesn't have to be a bad
thing.
And so there's a lot in thisbook about adversity, grit,
resilience and changing pathsand the ever evolving journey
that so many of us take in andout of sports and baseball.
There's no way, growing up,that you thought you'd be
hosting a podcast because inpart one didn't exist.

(01:08:37):
Neither did I you know, in partone didn't exist, didn't exist,
did I?
You know?
I wanted to be on tv.
I wanted to be either theplay-by-play guy or the sports
guy on the news.
Well, the path that I took wasthe sports guy on the news and
eventually I landed in a role assideline reporter and pre and
post game show host.

(01:08:57):
When we were growing up, tim,sideline reporters only really
existed, or you know, sidelinereporters, ringside reporters,
on-field reporters that onlyexisted in a big national game,
and pre and post game show hostshappened on, say, the weekly
NBA game or the week you know,and now that's, that's
everywhere.
So I could have never envisionedthis.

(01:09:17):
The dreams, the purpose, theaspirations change.
Hopefully, as I said before,who you are remains the same,
although you evolve.
As you evolve, you stayauthentic, but you, you learn,
you know what you learn and and,and hopefully, you get better
because of it.
But that's what this book is.
This book is all about dreams,resilience, grit and in many

(01:09:41):
ways follows the path of mywhole career too, while still
mostly focusing on others.

Tim (01:09:47):
And I would suggest everybody get both of them and
read them.
They're incredible stories andwhen I grew up I always wanted
to be a teacher.
But I tell people, if I had todo it over again, I'd either
want to be a peanut vendor at aball game or a mascot.

(01:10:08):
You know, you know, being amascot for a, for a franchise
number one, it's hard, butpeople don't realize that's hard
work too, um, and that thatwhole thing has has evolved over
the last 30 years, but it's,it's entertaining people, it's
helped, it's you know what, what?
What those mascots do?
They help people, theyentertain people and it's, it's

(01:10:30):
a.
It's a.
It's a different way of of ofreaching out and touching people
and bringing them into theorganization 100%.

Joel (01:10:37):
It's no different than what I do, by the way, I just
happen to not be behind a mask.
Wait, there's a person in there.
I didn't know that.
But we're all doing the samething, you know, and we're all
working hard, and none of it'seasy.
But that's not a complaint,it's just you know.
Look, I embrace hard work.

(01:10:57):
I love the hard work.

Tim (01:10:59):
So where can people find you, buy the books and follow
you?

Joel (01:11:03):
Well, you know, the simple , easy answer to everything is
always go to Amazon.
However, if you want a signedcopy or if you want to reach me,
the easiest way to find me andall the social media channels or
a signed book isjoelgoldbergmediacom, my website
.

Tim (01:11:20):
And I'll put that in the show notes for everybody.
But, joel, I cannot thank youenough for spending this time
with us today and speaking withthe Confidence community.
A ton of great information, andI could talk to you for hours
about all kinds of differentthings.
You're spot on and I trulyappreciate your time and

(01:11:41):
expertise it's.

Joel (01:11:42):
it's been great getting to know you on and off camera, tim
, and I appreciate theopportunity.

Tim (01:11:47):
But you take care and we'll talk to you soon.
Thanks, tim.
Be sure to visitspeakingwithconfidencepodcastcom
to get your free ebook Top 21Challenges for Public Speakers
and how to Overcome them.
You can also register for theforum for public speaking.
Always remember, your voice hasthe power to change the world.
We'll talk to you next time.
Take care.