March 16, 2026 • 49 mins
Most of us have wondered — does something of us survive? Does love, memory, connection... continue?
What if a 10-year-old boy in Japan and his butterflies just gave us the first scientific thread to pull?
This episode was not the one I planned to record. It found me. And I haven't stopped thinking about it since.
A few things you'll walk away with:
- Why what carries through metamorphosis might tell us everything about what carries through beyond death
- What two unforgettable readings taught me about what the soul actually brings to the other side
- Why Jo Nagai's butterflies might be the first breadcrumb toward proving reincarnation
This is science, spirit and wonder — all braided together.
And isn't that just like the spirit world — to hide the biggest answers inside the smallest, most unexpected places.
Show Notes:
A Curious Birb on YouTube— the video that started it all: "Genius 10 Year Old's Research Shocks Scientists Around the World"
www.youtube.com/@CuriousOwl-l5p
Get Joy's Free "Sign Magnet" 3 Day Mini Course HERE https://www.joyfulmedium.com/sign-magnet
Joy's Website: www.joyfulmedium.com
Instagram: @JoyfulMedium
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Facebook Group: Joy's Soul Spa
YouTube: Psychic Medium Joy Giovanni
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Episode Transcript
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Unknown (00:01):
Joy, hey, beautiful soul, welcome to spirit. Speak
Easy. I'm Joy Giovanni, joyfulmedium. I'm a working psychic
medium, energy healer andspiritual gifts mentor. This
podcast is like a seat at thetable in a secret club, but with
mediums, mystics and thespiritual luminaries of our
time. So come behind the velvetropes with me and see inside my
(00:24):
world as I chat insider stylewith profoundly gifted souls, we
go deep, share juicy stories,laugh a lot, and it wouldn't be
a speakeasy without greatinsider secrets and tips. You
might even learn that you havesome gifts of your own so step
inside the spirit speakeasy.
(00:45):
Hey, beautiful soul, welcome infor another episode of spirit
speakeasy. I'm glad you're heretoday, because this episode, I
have to tell you, this, is onethat has been living inside of
me all night. It's not theepisode I was going to record
today. It's something thatinspired me out of the blue,
something that justserendipitously came across my
(01:07):
path, and I have been reallyjust thinking about it since the
moment I saw it, and I knewimmediately I had to share this
inspiration with you. Okay,let's get into it, because today
I want to start with a question,what if a memory, not just the
idea of a memory, but an actuallived experience, actual
emotional imprinting. What ifthat could survive complete and
(01:31):
total transformation of thephysical body, not
metaphorically, not spiritually,but scientifically. What if a
living creature could beessentially dissolved, broken
down to its most basic biologiccomponents and rebuilt entirely
into a different form, and stillcarry something forward from
(01:53):
before, from before thatbreaking away. And then what if
something carried forward, notjust in the transformed
creature, but into the nextgeneration and the generations
after that. I know what youmight be thinking, Joy. Are we
going to talk aboutreincarnation again, sort of,
but I'm going to get therethrough the most unexpected
(02:14):
door. I want to tell you about aspecial little boy or young
person, I should say, named JoeNagai. I came across Joe's story
through a YouTube channel calleda curious Burb, B, I R, B. I'll
link the specific video in theshow notes, because it is a
wonderful, incredible, carefullyresearched piece of content, a
(02:38):
video. It's like its own littlemini show. It's like a 15 minute
show. This episode that they didabout this person, Joe Nagai, he
on this channel. The creator ofthe channel, has some amazing
content researched about animalbehavior. And this particular
video, I watched it yesterday asI'm recording this. And today
(03:00):
I'm recording this on the Fridaybefore it's going to be released
on Monday. And when I watchedthis video last night, it had
only been out for three days,and it had over 1.1 million
views in just three days. Soclearly, something about this
story is landing for people in avery big way. And I think by the
end of today's episode, you'llunderstand why. So Joe Nagai,
(03:24):
picture a sweet young boy inJapan, glasses serious eyes, but
something very kind about hisdemeanor in his face, the kind
of child who notices things thatother people just walk right
past. Well, from a young age,this boy, Joe Nagai, was
(03:45):
fascinated by insects. I wasfascinated by insects too, but
not to this degree. And he wasfascinated, not in the way that
most kids are, where you mightpick up a bug, look at it for a
few seconds and then move on.
Joe was different. He would findthese rhinoceros beetles, which,
in the video you'll see, if youwatch it, and again, I'll link
(04:05):
it below. They show thesebeetles. It looks like a beetle
with these rhinoceros horns. Sothey had those outside where he
lived in Japan, and he wouldwatch them for hours battling
each other with their insecthorns, or there would be
dragonflies hovering by a nearpond. And instead of just
collecting them or takingpictures of them, he would stay
(04:27):
he would observe. He woulddocument. He would watch them
for hours and hours and hours,tracking their patterns and
their odd behaviors. He you'llsee in the video, there are all
of these sketches that he did,of the studies that he was
having, of them and theobservations documented notes,
pages and pages and pages, andhe tracked them over a period of
(04:51):
time, including watching theirpatterns and habits. You. Know,
just throughout time. So hereally was looking at things
that most people didn't evennotice about these insects,
including most trainedscientists would have just
overlooked these thingsentirely. And his very favorite
(05:12):
of these insects, above all theothers, was the butterfly,
specifically the swallowtailbutterfly, which is like a
really beautiful, large,dramatic yellow with some black
markings, stunning wings. It's acreature that has one of the
most radical life cycles in theworld. And by the time that Joe
(05:33):
was in kindergarten,kindergarten, you guys, he
wasn't just watchingbutterflies. He was doing his
own scientific research. Hedecided to not only observe
these butterflies in nature, andthe reason that he said he chose
these swallowtail butterflies isbecause he noticed they had a
much more rapid life cycle, andwere cocooning and birthing into
(05:57):
butterflies much faster than theother species, which is quite an
observation for a kindergartner.
So he also decided, as part ofthis to start, I don't know what
the right word is, hatching,raising his own butterflies at
home. So he was having thebutterflies in nature and the
butterflies at home. He designedhis first experiments in
(06:19):
kindergarten to test how longthe swallowtail could survive if
it got stuck inside its ownchrysalis. You know, sometimes,
as they're transitioning fromCaterpillar to butterfly, they
can get stuck in that littlecocoon. So he wanted to know how
long could they live if they getstuck in there in the first
grade, Joe Nagai documented aspecies of caterpillar that he
(06:43):
discovered would molt more oftenthan usual. And again, this is
that swallowtail butterfly, andit was an unusual finding that
actually won him an award. Thisis the research that led him to
see okay, this type of butterflyis unique in the way that their
life cycle moves. And by thetime that Joe was in second
grade, eight years old. Youguys, Joe had already
(07:03):
accumulated hundreds of pages ofobservations, notes,
documentations, drawings ofthese life cycles, hundreds of
pages at eight years old. Andsomewhere in all of these pages,
something began to catch hisattention that he couldn't quite
explain in his brilliant, littlescientific mind, he noticed that
(07:25):
the butterflies that he hadraised himself, the ones that he
had watched and tended to andhand fed, from the very
beginning, from the egg to thecaterpillar, to the chrysalis,
to the butterfly, thesebutterflies that he raised
himself behaved differentlyaround him than the ones that he
caught in the wild. So evenafter metamorphosis, even after
(07:49):
they had been through all of thebecoming and that transition of,
you know, butterflies, they'rewhen they're in that chrysalis,
their Caterpillar bodies meltingaway and transforming into what
then becomes the butterfly. Soeven after all of that, when he
would then, after hisexperiments, take them out to
release them into the wild, henoticed that what that they were
(08:12):
doing was different, was thatthey would flutter back towards
him. No matter how many times hetried to release them, they just
kept coming back to him, and hefelt like they seemed to know
Him. And Joe thought, maybe myfriends remember me, because he
didn't think of them as ascience experiment. He's eight
years old. These are hisfriends. So he thought, oh my
(08:34):
gosh, maybe my friends rememberme. And people told him, that's
impossible, that's wishfulthinking. These are insects.
They can't remember you thatmemories just simply couldn't
even survive this metamorphosisthat they went through. They're
a totally different creature.
They're not a caterpillar. Theycan remember you as a
caterpillar. They certainlycan't remember you after this
transition, and they just kindof adults dismissed Joe, many of
(08:58):
us can remember being dismissedas a kid, but Joe said, No, the
science is clear. Even though hewas eight years old, he decided
he wanted to find out forhimself. He didn't just give up
at that point. Now, before Itell you what Joe discovered, I
want to make sure that we alltruly understand what this
(09:18):
metamorphosis actually isbecause I think many of us carry
this vague, beautiful image of acaterpillar going into the
cocoon and emerging into abutterfly after a restful,
beautiful sleep, like a softtransformation, a costume
change, like just kind ofshifting into a new outfit. It
is so much more radical andstrange than that what these
(09:38):
caterpillars go through tobecome this butterfly. When the
caterpillar enters thechrysalis, I've learned a lot in
the last 24 hours. It doesn'trearrange itself. It doesn't
restructure or reorganize. Itprocesses enzymes, chemicals in
its body that essentially digestmost of its own body from the
inside. It out, it dissolvesitself into what scientists
(10:01):
describe as kind of a biologicalsoup, which I know is such a
strange thing to call it aliquid, almost nothing of the
original physical structure ofthe caterpillar remains intact.
And then from that liquid, thatbiologic soup, from that near
total dissolution, somethingrebuilds a completely different
(10:23):
body takes shape, differentlegs, different eyes, wings that
never existed before, a creaturethat will eat different food,
live an entirely different life,no longer on the ground,
crawling, but in the sky, flyingso a totally different being and
will move through the world in acompletely different way. But
the caterpillar and thebutterfly share DNA. Even though
(10:45):
they share this DNA, almostnothing else physically connects
them. So when scientists said,memories cannot survive
metamorphosis, they weren'tbeing dismissive. They were
being logical. What would evencarry the memory? There's no
structure that still remains. Sohow could this memory possibly
(11:06):
survive? And there's a scientistnamed Martha Weiss at Georgetown
University that had already beenquietly exploring this very
question for many years. She hadtrained these moth caterpillars
in her experiments to associatea specific scent with a mild
electric shock, essentiallyteaching them to kind of fear
(11:27):
that smell. And when thosecaterpillars dissolved and
rebuilt and emerged ascompletely transformed adult
moths weeks later, they stillavoided that scent that she had
trained them with those shocksto avoid. So the memory of the
electric shock being associatedwith that smell had survived the
caterpillar soup that they wentthrough. And as Joe was asking
(11:51):
his question in his mind, hissecond grade brilliant mind, he
wasthinking, well, maybe there's
research on this already. So Joedid his own research and went
online and found Dr MarthaWeiss's research. And he was
looking very specifically at herpapers on butterfly memory,
(12:12):
doing what any seriousresearcher would do. And when he
read her findings, something lithim up, because if moths could
do this, he thought, well,certainly, why couldn't his
swallowtails do this? So in thespring of 2022 he writes
(12:33):
to Dr Weiss and decides he'sgoing to send her all of His
current research, all of hisdata, and he condensed it down
to like a four page handwrittenletter. So the second grader
writes this esteemed,established scientist at
Georgetown, this very sweet fourpage handwritten letter,
including his data, hisresearch, his drawings, and sent
(12:57):
her this large envelope, and heas he wrote to Miss Martha
Weiss, hello. My name is JoeNagai. I live in Kobe, Japan.
I'm in the second grade. Alongwith this letter, of course, he
had pages of data that hecollected over the years. He
included photographs of himself,all of this that original
creator that inspired me. It'sall in the video. And you get to
(13:20):
see her. You get to see him. Youget to see this letter. It's
beautiful. So highly encouraged.
So she reads the letter, ofcourse, and thinks like, oh,
this a very cute kid withglasses. And she describes him
as like, looking through amagnifying glass at his
butterflies and two pages ofdata and figures. And He told
her he was so impressed by herresearch that he wanted to
replicate it with his ownbutterflies. And later, there's
(13:42):
a bit of an interview in there.
Dr Weiss said it was the mostfun letter she had ever
received. But this is whereJoe's story gets even better,
because Dr Weiss, while she waslike, Charmed, she was like,
this is a second grader. This islovely. But like, okay, she
probably assumed, like mostpeople, that an eight year old
replicating a university levelscience experiment at home was
(14:07):
not going to really happen. Soshe wrote him back very sweetly
and thanked him and suggestedthat he try something simpler.
There was another very basicexperiment she had done, showing
that certain butterflies prefercertain colors. And so she was
like, why don't you try thissimpler exercise, my dear little
sweet second grade friend. Andthen I love this part. He wrote
(14:30):
back and told her that he hadalready begun adapting her
experiment and his home setup,and had started several of the
protocols to prepare for thescientific experiment on his
own. I love this boy. I don'tknow him, but I love him. And
then he not only did he saylike, Oh, I've already begun the
protocols, and I'm setting upthe experiment. I just wanted
(14:51):
you to know, he then alsoquestioned her methodology.
Specifically, he questioned herchoice of this chemical that she
chose. It was a. It's calledethyl acetate. And he was like,
I don't understand why you usethis chemical. Surely, you know,
sweet, respectful, but like, youknow, intense, when he said it
in the way she describes it.
Surely you know that this isused in pesticides, and this is
(15:12):
a common killing agent forinsects, and maybe they would
have a natural sensitivity tothis, had you considered that?
And she it's kind of funny,because in the interview, she
says, like she kind of even inher reading the email or the
letter, was like, we did our ownprotocols and we tested and it
was fine, but she had a littlechuckle that he even wanted to
(15:33):
build on her experiment, and hewanted to use something more
neutral to kind of just in casethe caterpillars might have a
natural aversion to this, likechemical smell, or recognize the
chemical smell from pesticides,he felt like it needed to be
something that was more of anatural smell that they wouldn't
have prior experience with, or anatural aversion to. And again,
(15:54):
she said, You know this, DrWeiss trained scientist with
decades of experience and a highlevel researcher later said she
felt a little defensive when shehad read him being like, why did
you use this chemical?
And then she admitted like,well, he had a point.
The eight year old scientist hada point and improved on her
(16:18):
experiment. So she agreed todesign to help him, like, with
his design of the experiment sohe could do it properly. And
over the following months, thetwo of them, a second grade boy
in Kobe, Japan, and a Georgetownprofessor in Washington, DC,
exchanged ideas regularly.
There's some sweet pictures ofthem in that original video too.
How to adapt her methods for hishome set up some potential
(16:39):
improvements that he had wantedto make to her original study
back and forth across the worldby mail, and by the fall of 2022
just a few years ago, Joe wrotesaying the study was finished,
and this time, he sent 33 pagesof his research. Here is what he
had done, Joe raised theseswallowtail caterpillars and
(17:02):
trained them to associate thescent of lavender oil with a
mild electric shock. He alsodidn't agree with the severity
of the shocks that were used inthe university experiments and
trials, so he wanted to havethem a more gentle shock, a more
gentle smell. But even in this,Joe brought something the
(17:22):
original study hadn't. He didn'twant to hurt the caterpillars,
because, remember, these are hisfriends. He's in second grade.
He saw them as creatures that heloved and his friends that he
had spent so much time with. Sorather than selecting that shock
intensity at random or justputting the highest shock. This
little machine with the littlepads did 15 levels of shock. He
(17:44):
started at the lowest possiblelevel and watched and increased
it. And just like watched themso carefully for any signs of
distress, and at only level fourof these shocks, the
caterpillars extend this littleit's like a defensive organ.
It's very interesting in thevideo. It's this little thing
that comes out of theirforehead. It's kind of looks
(18:05):
like a Pokemon character. It'sthis little orange it's a
defensive organ, and it meansthat they're starting to feel
distressed. So at level four,they were extending that little
defensive organ out of theirforehead, and he said it was a
clear signal that they couldfeel it. And he stopped right
there, because he didn't want toharm them. And also, when he was
doing the experiment, instead ofapplying the shock directly to
(18:28):
the caterpillars, he put thecaterpillar on his little arm,
and then put the pad on thecaterpillar and his arm, because
he wanted to also feel the shockto monitor to make sure that it
was not at a harmful level. Ijust am obsessed with this
little boy. Hopefully you cansee why the story is so
incredible, even in this andeven in this far and because
(18:51):
he's using his own arm, ofcourse, he felt every single
shock himself. And he also had acontrol group, like any good
scientist would, a group ofcaterpillars who received no
training at all, no exposure tothe lavender, no shocks, no
training, just regular group ofcaterpillars that he was raising
for his control group so hecould properly compare them. And
then he waited and he watchedthem in their chrysalises. And
(19:13):
as part of this experiment, hebuilt this plastic it's like a
maze, almost like three tunnels,but they shape like a y, so one
primary hallway that they startin, and then it branches off to
these two other plastic tunnelsthat kind of looks like a y, and
it serves like a maze for them,right? So they start in that
(19:33):
initial arm, and then thatinitial hallway, and then it
splits into a V, and they eitherget to choose the side with a
little pad of lavender scent, orthe side that does not have the
lavender scent, because theintention is, you know, you put
sugar water on both sides. Oneside has that cotton pad with
the lavender. And when theyfinally emerge from the
(19:55):
chrysalis, you put them in themaze, and you see which side
they go to. The untrainedbutterflies, the one he didn't
do any, you know, exposure tothe lavender or the shocks. The
untrained butterflies, theysplit 5050, so in every
experiment, 5050, on either sideof that V from the original
tunnel, 50% went towards thelavender. 50% did not go towards
(20:17):
the lavender, sugar water onboth sides. And what happened to
the trained butterflies? If theuntrained ones seem to have no
preference, the trainedbutterflies, around 70% avoided
the lavender arm. So the memoryof being exposed to that
lavender with the shock ascaterpillars had completely
(20:37):
survived the metamorphosis, andeven as butterflies, 70% knew
not to go towards the lavenderscent, to go away from it. How
incredible is that the majorityhad remembered the experience of
the caterpillar had carriedthrough this dissolving through
the biologic soup and waspresent in the butterfly on the
(21:02):
other side. Joe was the firstperson in the world as a second
grader to demonstrate this inswallowtail butterflies in the
second grade. This is amazing tome. Dr Weiss said she was a
flabbergast, and she wasdelighted. She was like, Oh my
gosh, he's a real scientist.
(21:26):
He's figuring out new stuff.
This is incredible. Mostresearchers, most adults, would
have stopped there that findingalone was extraordinary and won
him a lot of awards. And you'llsee in that video, it shows him
on all of these different newsprograms and talk programs on
Japan. In Japan, it's very cool,but he didn't stop there. He,
(21:46):
like was still curious, and wehaven't even gotten to the part
of his experiment that shookscientists around the world.
Okay, so one day, sometime aftercompleting this, this
experiment, Joe was spendingtime with his family, and he
noticed something. He noticedthat his mom and his grandma all
(22:07):
suffered hay fever andmigraines, kind of the
allergies, right? And migraines,three generations, same
condition, something neither hismother nor his grandmother had
taught him to have right? Thisquestion that I have to tell you
made something go very quiet andvery still inside of me when I
(22:28):
heard it, because this is thequestion that changes
everything. Joe spent thefollowing summer raising a new
generation of caterpillars, theoffspring of the butterflies he
had already trained. So thosebutterflies from that lavender
experiment, they made babycaterpillars, and then he's
going to raise them, and he'sgoing to do some experiments
with them, these newcaterpillars, because they're
(22:51):
the next generation. They'dnever been exposed to the
lavender they've never felt ashock. They never learned
anything about any of this. Hehadn't trained them at all
because they were brand new babycaterpillars. And while other
kids played outside and didtheir summer activities, Joe
replaced leaves and tended tohis new baby caterpillars and
sat with them in these littletents all day in his house. It's
(23:14):
very sweet. He described them asfeeling like his children, and
and by late summer, they emergedas butterflies. And so he was
like, I'm going to do theexperiment again and place them
in that same wine maze with thelavender on one side and the
nothing on the other side, sugarin both sides, to see which side
they would go to. And do youknow what happened? They avoided
(23:38):
the lavender, not quite asstrongly as the first
generation, but significantly,statistically meaningful, the
experience of the parents hadleft a biologic trace that
carried forward without anydirect exposure. So only through
the biology would thesebutterflies have known to avoid
(23:59):
this lavender. He didn't exposethem to it at all. So Joe bred
them again, a third generation,grandchildren of the original
trained caterpillars, twogenerations removed from any
direct lavender, any directshock. And you know what
happened? They still avoided it.
(24:21):
They still went away from thelavender, even the third
generation, the grandkids of theoriginal experiment butterflies.
He also began to notice thatthis inherited behavior appeared
more strongly in the maleoffspring than the female
offspring, a potential genderlinked pattern that he noted
carefully, but with the wisdomto acknowledge that his data set
(24:43):
was still small, he would needmore trials and experiments
before he could draw a strongconclusion on this one, he was
10 years old and alreadypracticing scientific restraint,
so instead of just going forthat conclusion, he was saying,
well, his data sets too small. Ineed to do more control.
Experiments. And Joe presentedhis research at the
International Congress ofEtymology In Kyoto in 2024 so a
(25:09):
big bug convention. He was inthe fifth grade at the time, so
this would have been last year,or maybe a year and a half ago.
At the time, scientists who hadspent decades in the field lined
up to speak with him at thishuge convention. He was invited
to present his work privately tothe Crown Prince of Japan. And
in December 2024 Joe finally metdr Martha Weiss in person, his
(25:34):
pen pal, mentor, scientist whosepapers had inspired him and
started all this the woman hehad written from across the
world as an eight year oldlittle guy with hundreds of
pages of handwritten notes andquestions he refused to let go
of as of right now, Joe'sresearch is being prepared for
official publication, a realscientific paper with Dr Weiss
(25:57):
helping him through the process,and the two of them are already
designing new experimentstogether. The work's ongoing.
The story's still unfolding, andI just need to pause here,
because beyond everything thismeans scientifically, can we
just take a moment to be withJoe Nagai, who is a beautiful
(26:19):
soul, his self, this child, thislittle kindergartener,
initially, who noticed somethingbeautiful and refused to be told
it wasn't real, who reachedacross the world to a scientist
that was more than four timeshis age that he admired, and
said, I think you might be on tosomething, and so am I, And I
(26:40):
think I can improve on yourresearch. A little boy who
builds mazes out of materials hefound at home, who felt every
shock himself because he didn'twant his Caterpillar friends to
suffer unnecessarily, who tendedto and loved these friends and
practiced scientific restraintat 10 years old that many adults
(27:02):
wouldn't be able to do. Thecreator of the video that I
mentioned, that introduced me toJoe's story, said something at
the end of the video, it's onlylike a 15 minute video that I
haven't been able to stopthinking about either. He said
the whole thing wasn't born outof ambition. This is the part
that moved him the most. Thecreator of the video. It wasn't
(27:23):
it wasn't born out of ambitionJoe's like experiments this
wisdom or the pursuit ofscientific breakthrough. It was
actually simply a 10 year oldtrying to figure out whether his
butterfly friends could actuallyremember him after this
metamorphosis, this soul tosoul. Connection with a
butterfly was what reallysparked this whole thing, not an
(27:45):
ambitious pursuit, and that is asoul following its own thread,
that is pure, uncorruptedcuriosity. And what it found was
this child in his backyard inJapan, maybe one of the most
quietly profound discoveries ofour time, because here's where I
(28:07):
want to bring you with me. WhenI first watched Joe's story, I
watched it a couple of times Ifelt something I can only
describe as like a quietinternal glimmer or niggle or
nudge or tickle. You know thatfeeling? It's not like a
lightning bolt, it's not loud,it's not like a giant outside
(28:28):
revelation. It's more somethingin you that goes still and soft
and says, pay attention. Thisthread goes further than you
think. And my mind, my wholesystem, really started pulling
at that thread, because what Joehad discovered in his home in
Kobe is this memory, livedexperience, emotional
(28:51):
imprinting, learned response,can survive complete biologic
dissolution. It can survive thetotal transformation of physical
form, and it can carry forward,not just the same being, but
into the same, into the nextgeneration. So you know just how
the baby butterflies were awarenot to go towards the lavender.
(29:15):
Emotions and things that havebeen learned can be carried not
just from one form to the nextof this single butterfly, but
also into the generations afterthat. Now, as many of you know,
I work with the spirit world Ihave for more than a decade, and
what I witness in that workagain and again is something
(29:36):
that deeply rhymes or flows withwhat Joe found in his
butterflies, what carriesthrough from the other side is
not the body, it's not theillness, the limitation, the
struggle, or the challenges ofthe physical form, what carries
through is something moreessential than any of that,
(29:57):
personality, love, memory.
Memory, humor specific, like thethemness of a person, not a
fading recording of someone, notan echo, something present,
something alive, just like Joe'sbutterfly friends still
(30:17):
remembered him after theirmetamorphosis, so too does our
soul continue on and remember usafter the dissolution of our
physical bodies. This remindedme of a couple of client
stories. I'm going to share thembriefly, and I'm going to keep
them General. They're sensitivestories and their kids stories,
especially inspired by Joe thisfirst story that really dropped
(30:40):
into my mind as I wasexperiencing this video about
Joe and these beautiful,incredible butterflies, is this
client that I had I was workingwith a parent and a grandparent
of this lovely person on theother side, and what I came to
know that she shared through thereading was that she suffered a
(31:03):
lot in her physical body as partof her human experience. She let
me know that her mind processeddifferently, not the typical
processing level that sheprocessed at an age and capacity
that was younger than herphysical years, so she was
processing, I believe it waslike at about a kindergarten or
(31:25):
just slightly lower cognitivecapacity, although her physical
age, she did make it to justbefore 21 and she also shared
that She had a condition frombirth, a couple of different
conditions that made it veryhard for her to control her
muscle mobility, so she was in awheelchair. In her life, she
(31:50):
really didn't have a lot ofability to control her vocal
cords, to communicate in a verytypical and traditional way, and
to be able to move around anduse her body in a typical,
traditional way, and as a partof all of her medical
challenges, she would havedifferent versions of seizures
that would happen quitefrequently to her. And even
(32:13):
though I knew this part of herstory, and she did share with
her parent and grandparent tojust let them know that it
really was her. I could alsofeel her communicating at such a
profound level that was not akindergarten level, it was a
wise soul level. And not onlydid she share the story about
the medical part of herexperience, but she let me know
(32:36):
that she did have quite a sassypersonality in life, and she,
even though she couldn't, maybecommunicate verbally in a
typical way, she didcommunicate, and she did get her
point across. She had a sense ofhumor. She liked certain people
and disliked certain people, andshe would show me how her parent
that was caretaking her. Theywould have these like dance
(33:00):
parties in the house, especiallyin the morning, because she
wasn't so much a morning person.
She didn't love getting startedin the morning, and so her
parents put on these specialmusics for her, and they would
do kind of dances together, andshe would get laughing and get
happy, and it really made herday. And her mom had a special
(33:21):
way that she would pick outclothing with her, because she
did have preferences, and shedid have things that she liked
and disliked and wanted, andsome days she wanted, you know,
something over another thing, soshe really could express the
fullness of her personality. Andthe other thing she let me know,
and wanted her parent andgrandparent to know was that the
(33:44):
physical challenges were part ofher physical body, and once she
was not connected to thatphysical body anymore, once her
physical body had passed on, hersoul continued on, and her soul
was the fullness of who sheactually was, just like in Joe's
(34:04):
story, the struggle of thecaterpillar didn't define what
carried through to thebutterfly. Something much larger
did. The dissolution of thecaterpillar wasn't the end of
the story. It became thebutterfly, and so too with this
beautiful girl, the challengesand short and maybe seemingly
(34:24):
difficult life that she had herewas not the totality of her she
really did have all of thesewonderful experiences and
personality traits and sense ofhumor and the totality of her
soul continued on In a muchbigger way. And she shared
things about her parent and hergrandparent, things they had
(34:45):
just been talking about a tripthey recently took, a trip that
they wanted to take with her,but they couldn't get her
medically strong enough. So itreally, to me, is such a lovely
parallel. And I do feel likeJoe's work. With the butterflies
can unravel, and if we keeppulling these threads, I do
believe one day science mightcatch up with the spiritual,
(35:07):
spiritual work and let us knowtoo, that our souls do carry on.
Now, I know I talked about atthe beginning this reincarnation
question. So here's the questionthat I'm sitting with, that I am
inviting you to sit with with mehere on your own, and I want to
be honest with you, I don't havea definite answer. I have my
experiences through my work andthose of other teachers, but I
(35:30):
don't think anyone has adefinite, at least not
scientific answer yet. But Ithink it's a question worth
asking out loud and askingseriously, if a memory can
survive complete biologictransformation from that
caterpillar into that butterfly,if a lived experience can carry
forward, not just through onemetamorphosis, but into the next
(35:52):
generation, right the childbutterfly and the grandchild
butterfly, or with Joe and hisgrandma and mom, if things can
carry through, if livedexperience can carry forward,
right? Is it such a stretch towonder whether human
consciousness, human memory,human love, human essence, might
(36:14):
do something similar. If abutterfly remembers after its
transformation from one body tothe next recognizes, even if
it's not in a conscious level,something in its soul
recognizes, couldn't, to them betrue that something in us, human
beings, a totally different lifeform, could also do something
(36:37):
similar. Reincarnation is one ofthe oldest spiritual ideas that
carries across every majortradition and culture on the
earth. So the notion that thesoul or consciousness or
essence, whatever languageresonates with you, doesn't
simply end at our physical deathof our actual body, but
continues, transforms andpotentially enters a new life, a
(37:00):
new form, carrying somethingforward, science has
understandably been skeptical,but, you know, I don't think we
have to put that down justbecause science is skeptical.
Because how do you design anexperiment for something so
vast? I don't know, but I thinkJoe's butterfly experiment could
(37:22):
be the first thread in startingto help understand and prove
maybe even reincarnation. ButJoe Nagai, in his home in Kobe,
with his butterflies, asked asmaller version of that
question. He asked, Cansomething essentially survive
complete transformation in thebody, can it carry forward even
(37:43):
into a generation that neverexperienced the original event?
And the answer, at least forswallowtail butterflies, appears
to be yes. What scientists arebeginning to explore is
something called epigeneticinheritance. It's the idea that
experiences can alter how genesare expressed, and that those
alterations can be passed tooffspring generations without
(38:07):
any change to the underlying DNAsequencing. It's a relatively
young study in science and astill evolving field, but it's
legitimate, and it's expandingrapidly, and it suggests that
the boundary between onegeneration and what the next
generation carries is far morepermeable than we maybe once
(38:29):
assumed. So for those of us inspiritual communities, this is
not entirely surprising. Inspiritual work, in many
traditions, we teach that wecarry on not just our own soul's
history but the imprints of ourancestral line, right? That
ancestral healing, the patternsthat held in the family, can be
transformed by one personwilling to look at them clearly.
(38:51):
That healing work done in onegeneration can ripple forward
into the next. I believe it canalso ripple backwards into the
former generations. But whatJoe's butterflies opened up, at
least for me, sitting quietlywith this is something even
bigger than ancestral patterns,if memory and experiences can
(39:12):
survive the complete disillusionand rebuilding of the physical
body, if they can carry forwardinto generations with no direct
experience of the originalevent, then the question of what
happens to human consciousnessafter death of the physical body
starts to feel less like amatter of faith, right for the
(39:32):
faith community, and a littlemore like a genuinely open
scientific question. I'm notsaying Joe proved reincarnation.
He didn't. He proved somethingabout butterflies. But I'm a
medium. I can tell you what Ihave witnessed.
And you know, I think aboutanother kiddo that I worked with
(39:54):
early on in my work. I oftendon't remember my readings much
later, usually if i. Have a fewclients in a day. By the end of
the day, I may have forgotteneven the first session that I
had, but there have been a fewsessions or clients or spirit
loved ones that stay with meover the years, in my heart and
in my memory, and I'm thinkingabout another little person that
(40:19):
also crossed over veryunexpectedly, and this young boy
also passed away in an accidenton a beautiful, perfect day out
of nowhere. And it was avehicular accident, and no one
else in the vehicle passed away,but in this family group reading
this, this young person camethrough with ease and with humor
(40:44):
and with wit and charm andeverything that he was in his
under 10 years of life, that hegot to experience in that body
on this Planet, and he camethrough in so much fullness, and
he did acknowledge that hisparents had been with him in the
(41:06):
vehicle, and siblings, and hewas the only one that was
traumatically wounded. And theydid take him to the hospital.
And in helping me understandthat scene at the hospital, he
was really just acknowledgingall of the trauma and hurt that
each of his family members wereexperiencing through this, but
also was sharing that the traumadidn't define what he carried
(41:30):
through to the other side, thetrauma was part of his human
experience, But something muchlarger carried on, just like Joe
butter Joe's butterflies didn'tcarry the shock of the
experiment into the nextgeneration. They carried
something older and deeper,something that persisted, not
because of a painful experience,but in spite of it. And that's
(41:53):
often how I feel the loved oneswho have these more tragic,
traumatic passings. They don'tcarry scars from those passings
on their soul, just like thisboy that came through or
communicated to his family aboutthis accident that took him to
the other side, he acknowledgedthe accident, but it didn't scar
(42:14):
his soul. It wasn't a part ofdefining what he was able to
experience on the other side, ifanything, he came through with
playfulness and a little bit ofsarcasm. Even he was quite
intelligent. He was the youngestof the siblings, and was in the
reading even giving me details,sharing details with me about
his siblings, like teasing hissiblings and giving them a hard
(42:37):
time, and he acknowledged thatone of them had recently started
playing an instrument, like aschool, you know, school
sometimes lets kids playinstruments, and he was teasing
them because he was like,they're not very good yet, and
they sometimes say they'repracticing when they're not. And
it was just very funny, and thewhole family was laughing and
was like, Oh my gosh, that'sjust like him. He's, he's very
(42:58):
mischievous, and he's, you know,in the best possible way, just
such a special, important memberof the family. But I just
thought it was so incredible,because he didn't carry with him
all of that pain. He carriedwith him who he was as a soul.
So where does this leave us? Ithink about Joe Nagai and his
(43:21):
family in Japan, watching him inhis science experiments,
watching his butterflies flutterback and forth toward him, and
watching the scene in the videowhen he is trying to release
these butterflies and they keepflying back to him, keep flying
back and landing on him. And Ithink about what he was really
(43:44):
asking in his curiosity and hisexperiments, he was asking, does
something of me still live inyou to these butterflies, right?
Does what passed between us inthose early days when I was
taking care of you and lovingyou and when you were still
becoming what you would be, doesany of it remain? That was
really his question underneathof it all, and he found Yes, it
(44:07):
remains. It carries it movesforward, even into lives that
never directly knew the originalexperience. I work with people
who are asking a version of thatsame question every single day
they sit across from me, hopingthat some sign of what they
shared with someone they loveddidn't simply stop or disappear,
(44:28):
that the love, the memory, theconnection, that something of it
remains somewhere in the ethers,right In the beyond. And what I
can tell you, for more than adecade of sitting with the
spirit world, is what comesthrough is not a diminished
version of a person. It's not afading trace of their soul. It's
(44:51):
something that feels again andagain, not just preserved, but
expanded uncomfortable.
Contained is the word I have forit, as if whatever form
consciousness takes after ourphysical death is not smaller
than what it was, it's somehowmore, not unlike the butterfly
(45:13):
in Joe's experiments. I know, Idon't know exactly how it works,
right? I have ideas of of thespirit world, but I know I'm
only glimpsing just such a tinylittle crack in the proverbial
window. I don't know exactly howall of it works. I don't think
anyone does, not yet, but I dobelieve that we're living in a
moment where science and spiritare beginning to ask the same
(45:36):
questions from the samedirection within many of us, and
somewhere in the middle, in thatspace between that 10 year old
Jonah guys handwritten letterand that Georgetown professor's
mailbox, between a Y shapedplastic maze built out of
household materials and tape Anda standing ovation at an
(46:00):
international scienceconvention, something's being
revealed here. Joe Nagai pickedup a thread, and I believe if we
as humanity, if scientists,follow it far enough, it could
unravel something reallyextraordinary about the nature
of consciousness, of memory, andwhat it means for our souls to
(46:21):
continue on, isn't that, justlike the spirit world to hide
the biggest answers inside thesmallest, most unexpected
places, a boy, a butterfly, ascent of lavender and a question
that just might changeeverything? I hope this
episode's given you something tosit with, something to wander
(46:42):
wonder about. I know it has forme, and honestly it still is. It
touched my heart and gave mehope. Mr. Joe Nagai story. So if
Joe's story moved you, and Ireally hope it did, please go
and watch that video thatintroduced me to this. The
YouTube channel is called acurious Burb, B, I R, B, and I
will link that specific videodirectly in the show notes. This
(47:05):
creator makes beautiful,carefully researched content,
and this video in particular isjust stunning. Give it a watch.
Over a million people have. Givethem a follow. I definitely will
people who put that kind of loveand care into sharing knowledge
with the world I believe reallydeserve our support. And a
couple of exciting updates worthmentioning. Joe is Oh, the other
(47:29):
bit is in that YouTube video inthe pinned comments, this
creator has said that they willcontinue to give updates about
Joe, which I think is so cool.
So one of the updates that thissame creator has given is that
Joe is the research is currentlybeing prepared for official
scientific publication, with DrWeiss helping him through the
process, and the two of them,again are already designing new
(47:50):
experiments together to continueexploring how memory is
transmitted across generations.
This is not a finished story.
This is a story that is justbeginning, and if this episode
resonated with you, please shareit with someone who needs it,
someone who's curious, someonewho's grieving and wondering,
someone who's always had a quietfeeling that there's more going
(48:14):
on than what we can see, or evenjust someone that needs a little
hope or inspiration. I certainlyneeded this because I believe
there is more going on than whatwe see. I think Joe Nagai might
be helping us prove it. Followthe pod wherever you're
listening, and you can alwaysfind spirit speakeasy on your
favorite podcast platform.
(48:36):
Please leave a review or give mea like if you feel called or a
follow. It genuinely helps morepeople find this community, and
I will see you in the nextepisode. I have some exciting
announcements coming up, sodon't miss the next episode,
because I'm going to be doing alittle bit of a personal share
that I know you guys will wantto hear about. And let me know
(48:57):
if you are really excited tolearn more about how our soul
continues on. I'm wishing you aflood of butterflies and
inspiration in your life, and Iam hoping for a full flood of
butterflies and inspiration inmy life. Big hugs. Lots of love.
Bye for now. From inside spirit,Speak Easy. You.
Joy, hey, beautiful soul, welcome to spirit. Speak
Easy. I'm Joy Giovanni, joyfulmedium. I'm a working psychic
medium, energy healer andspiritual gifts mentor. This
podcast is like a seat at thetable in a secret club, but with
mediums, mystics and thespiritual luminaries of our
time. So come behind the velvetropes with me and see inside my
(00:24):
world as I chat insider stylewith profoundly gifted souls, we
go deep, share juicy stories,laugh a lot, and it wouldn't be
a speakeasy without greatinsider secrets and tips. You
might even learn that you havesome gifts of your own so step
inside the spirit speakeasy.
(00:45):
Hey, beautiful soul, welcome infor another episode of spirit
speakeasy. I'm glad you're heretoday, because this episode, I
have to tell you, this, is onethat has been living inside of
me all night. It's not theepisode I was going to record
today. It's something thatinspired me out of the blue,
something that justserendipitously came across my
(01:07):
path, and I have been reallyjust thinking about it since the
moment I saw it, and I knewimmediately I had to share this
inspiration with you. Okay,let's get into it, because today
I want to start with a question,what if a memory, not just the
idea of a memory, but an actuallived experience, actual
emotional imprinting. What ifthat could survive complete and
(01:31):
total transformation of thephysical body, not
metaphorically, not spiritually,but scientifically. What if a
living creature could beessentially dissolved, broken
down to its most basic biologiccomponents and rebuilt entirely
into a different form, and stillcarry something forward from
(01:53):
before, from before thatbreaking away. And then what if
something carried forward, notjust in the transformed
creature, but into the nextgeneration and the generations
after that. I know what youmight be thinking, Joy. Are we
going to talk aboutreincarnation again, sort of,
but I'm going to get therethrough the most unexpected
(02:14):
door. I want to tell you about aspecial little boy or young
person, I should say, named JoeNagai. I came across Joe's story
through a YouTube channel calleda curious Burb, B, I R, B. I'll
link the specific video in theshow notes, because it is a
wonderful, incredible, carefullyresearched piece of content, a
(02:38):
video. It's like its own littlemini show. It's like a 15 minute
show. This episode that they didabout this person, Joe Nagai, he
on this channel. The creator ofthe channel, has some amazing
content researched about animalbehavior. And this particular
video, I watched it yesterday asI'm recording this. And today
(03:00):
I'm recording this on the Fridaybefore it's going to be released
on Monday. And when I watchedthis video last night, it had
only been out for three days,and it had over 1.1 million
views in just three days. Soclearly, something about this
story is landing for people in avery big way. And I think by the
end of today's episode, you'llunderstand why. So Joe Nagai,
(03:24):
picture a sweet young boy inJapan, glasses serious eyes, but
something very kind about hisdemeanor in his face, the kind
of child who notices things thatother people just walk right
past. Well, from a young age,this boy, Joe Nagai, was
(03:45):
fascinated by insects. I wasfascinated by insects too, but
not to this degree. And he wasfascinated, not in the way that
most kids are, where you mightpick up a bug, look at it for a
few seconds and then move on.
Joe was different. He would findthese rhinoceros beetles, which,
in the video you'll see, if youwatch it, and again, I'll link
(04:05):
it below. They show thesebeetles. It looks like a beetle
with these rhinoceros horns. Sothey had those outside where he
lived in Japan, and he wouldwatch them for hours battling
each other with their insecthorns, or there would be
dragonflies hovering by a nearpond. And instead of just
collecting them or takingpictures of them, he would stay
(04:27):
he would observe. He woulddocument. He would watch them
for hours and hours and hours,tracking their patterns and
their odd behaviors. He you'llsee in the video, there are all
of these sketches that he did,of the studies that he was
having, of them and theobservations documented notes,
pages and pages and pages, andhe tracked them over a period of
(04:51):
time, including watching theirpatterns and habits. You. Know,
just throughout time. So hereally was looking at things
that most people didn't evennotice about these insects,
including most trainedscientists would have just
overlooked these thingsentirely. And his very favorite
(05:12):
of these insects, above all theothers, was the butterfly,
specifically the swallowtailbutterfly, which is like a
really beautiful, large,dramatic yellow with some black
markings, stunning wings. It's acreature that has one of the
most radical life cycles in theworld. And by the time that Joe
(05:33):
was in kindergarten,kindergarten, you guys, he
wasn't just watchingbutterflies. He was doing his
own scientific research. Hedecided to not only observe
these butterflies in nature, andthe reason that he said he chose
these swallowtail butterflies isbecause he noticed they had a
much more rapid life cycle, andwere cocooning and birthing into
(05:57):
butterflies much faster than theother species, which is quite an
observation for a kindergartner.
So he also decided, as part ofthis to start, I don't know what
the right word is, hatching,raising his own butterflies at
home. So he was having thebutterflies in nature and the
butterflies at home. He designedhis first experiments in
(06:19):
kindergarten to test how longthe swallowtail could survive if
it got stuck inside its ownchrysalis. You know, sometimes,
as they're transitioning fromCaterpillar to butterfly, they
can get stuck in that littlecocoon. So he wanted to know how
long could they live if they getstuck in there in the first
grade, Joe Nagai documented aspecies of caterpillar that he
(06:43):
discovered would molt more oftenthan usual. And again, this is
that swallowtail butterfly, andit was an unusual finding that
actually won him an award. Thisis the research that led him to
see okay, this type of butterflyis unique in the way that their
life cycle moves. And by thetime that Joe was in second
grade, eight years old. Youguys, Joe had already
(07:03):
accumulated hundreds of pages ofobservations, notes,
documentations, drawings ofthese life cycles, hundreds of
pages at eight years old. Andsomewhere in all of these pages,
something began to catch hisattention that he couldn't quite
explain in his brilliant, littlescientific mind, he noticed that
(07:25):
the butterflies that he hadraised himself, the ones that he
had watched and tended to andhand fed, from the very
beginning, from the egg to thecaterpillar, to the chrysalis,
to the butterfly, thesebutterflies that he raised
himself behaved differentlyaround him than the ones that he
caught in the wild. So evenafter metamorphosis, even after
(07:49):
they had been through all of thebecoming and that transition of,
you know, butterflies, they'rewhen they're in that chrysalis,
their Caterpillar bodies meltingaway and transforming into what
then becomes the butterfly. Soeven after all of that, when he
would then, after hisexperiments, take them out to
release them into the wild, henoticed that what that they were
(08:12):
doing was different, was thatthey would flutter back towards
him. No matter how many times hetried to release them, they just
kept coming back to him, and hefelt like they seemed to know
Him. And Joe thought, maybe myfriends remember me, because he
didn't think of them as ascience experiment. He's eight
years old. These are hisfriends. So he thought, oh my
(08:34):
gosh, maybe my friends rememberme. And people told him, that's
impossible, that's wishfulthinking. These are insects.
They can't remember you thatmemories just simply couldn't
even survive this metamorphosisthat they went through. They're
a totally different creature.
They're not a caterpillar. Theycan remember you as a
caterpillar. They certainlycan't remember you after this
transition, and they just kindof adults dismissed Joe, many of
(08:58):
us can remember being dismissedas a kid, but Joe said, No, the
science is clear. Even though hewas eight years old, he decided
he wanted to find out forhimself. He didn't just give up
at that point. Now, before Itell you what Joe discovered, I
want to make sure that we alltruly understand what this
(09:18):
metamorphosis actually isbecause I think many of us carry
this vague, beautiful image of acaterpillar going into the
cocoon and emerging into abutterfly after a restful,
beautiful sleep, like a softtransformation, a costume
change, like just kind ofshifting into a new outfit. It
is so much more radical andstrange than that what these
(09:38):
caterpillars go through tobecome this butterfly. When the
caterpillar enters thechrysalis, I've learned a lot in
the last 24 hours. It doesn'trearrange itself. It doesn't
restructure or reorganize. Itprocesses enzymes, chemicals in
its body that essentially digestmost of its own body from the
inside. It out, it dissolvesitself into what scientists
(10:01):
describe as kind of a biologicalsoup, which I know is such a
strange thing to call it aliquid, almost nothing of the
original physical structure ofthe caterpillar remains intact.
And then from that liquid, thatbiologic soup, from that near
total dissolution, somethingrebuilds a completely different
(10:23):
body takes shape, differentlegs, different eyes, wings that
never existed before, a creaturethat will eat different food,
live an entirely different life,no longer on the ground,
crawling, but in the sky, flyingso a totally different being and
will move through the world in acompletely different way. But
the caterpillar and thebutterfly share DNA. Even though
(10:45):
they share this DNA, almostnothing else physically connects
them. So when scientists said,memories cannot survive
metamorphosis, they weren'tbeing dismissive. They were
being logical. What would evencarry the memory? There's no
structure that still remains. Sohow could this memory possibly
(11:06):
survive? And there's a scientistnamed Martha Weiss at Georgetown
University that had already beenquietly exploring this very
question for many years. She hadtrained these moth caterpillars
in her experiments to associatea specific scent with a mild
electric shock, essentiallyteaching them to kind of fear
(11:27):
that smell. And when thosecaterpillars dissolved and
rebuilt and emerged ascompletely transformed adult
moths weeks later, they stillavoided that scent that she had
trained them with those shocksto avoid. So the memory of the
electric shock being associatedwith that smell had survived the
caterpillar soup that they wentthrough. And as Joe was asking
(11:51):
his question in his mind, hissecond grade brilliant mind, he
wasthinking, well, maybe there's
research on this already. So Joedid his own research and went
online and found Dr MarthaWeiss's research. And he was
looking very specifically at herpapers on butterfly memory,
(12:12):
doing what any seriousresearcher would do. And when he
read her findings, something lithim up, because if moths could
do this, he thought, well,certainly, why couldn't his
swallowtails do this? So in thespring of 2022 he writes
(12:33):
to Dr Weiss and decides he'sgoing to send her all of His
current research, all of hisdata, and he condensed it down
to like a four page handwrittenletter. So the second grader
writes this esteemed,established scientist at
Georgetown, this very sweet fourpage handwritten letter,
including his data, hisresearch, his drawings, and sent
(12:57):
her this large envelope, and heas he wrote to Miss Martha
Weiss, hello. My name is JoeNagai. I live in Kobe, Japan.
I'm in the second grade. Alongwith this letter, of course, he
had pages of data that hecollected over the years. He
included photographs of himself,all of this that original
creator that inspired me. It'sall in the video. And you get to
(13:20):
see her. You get to see him. Youget to see this letter. It's
beautiful. So highly encouraged.
So she reads the letter, ofcourse, and thinks like, oh,
this a very cute kid withglasses. And she describes him
as like, looking through amagnifying glass at his
butterflies and two pages ofdata and figures. And He told
her he was so impressed by herresearch that he wanted to
replicate it with his ownbutterflies. And later, there's
(13:42):
a bit of an interview in there.
Dr Weiss said it was the mostfun letter she had ever
received. But this is whereJoe's story gets even better,
because Dr Weiss, while she waslike, Charmed, she was like,
this is a second grader. This islovely. But like, okay, she
probably assumed, like mostpeople, that an eight year old
replicating a university levelscience experiment at home was
(14:07):
not going to really happen. Soshe wrote him back very sweetly
and thanked him and suggestedthat he try something simpler.
There was another very basicexperiment she had done, showing
that certain butterflies prefercertain colors. And so she was
like, why don't you try thissimpler exercise, my dear little
sweet second grade friend. Andthen I love this part. He wrote
(14:30):
back and told her that he hadalready begun adapting her
experiment and his home setup,and had started several of the
protocols to prepare for thescientific experiment on his
own. I love this boy. I don'tknow him, but I love him. And
then he not only did he saylike, Oh, I've already begun the
protocols, and I'm setting upthe experiment. I just wanted
(14:51):
you to know, he then alsoquestioned her methodology.
Specifically, he questioned herchoice of this chemical that she
chose. It was a. It's calledethyl acetate. And he was like,
I don't understand why you usethis chemical. Surely, you know,
sweet, respectful, but like, youknow, intense, when he said it
in the way she describes it.
Surely you know that this isused in pesticides, and this is
(15:12):
a common killing agent forinsects, and maybe they would
have a natural sensitivity tothis, had you considered that?
And she it's kind of funny,because in the interview, she
says, like she kind of even inher reading the email or the
letter, was like, we did our ownprotocols and we tested and it
was fine, but she had a littlechuckle that he even wanted to
(15:33):
build on her experiment, and hewanted to use something more
neutral to kind of just in casethe caterpillars might have a
natural aversion to this, likechemical smell, or recognize the
chemical smell from pesticides,he felt like it needed to be
something that was more of anatural smell that they wouldn't
have prior experience with, or anatural aversion to. And again,
(15:54):
she said, You know this, DrWeiss trained scientist with
decades of experience and a highlevel researcher later said she
felt a little defensive when shehad read him being like, why did
you use this chemical?
And then she admitted like,well, he had a point.
The eight year old scientist hada point and improved on her
(16:18):
experiment. So she agreed todesign to help him, like, with
his design of the experiment sohe could do it properly. And
over the following months, thetwo of them, a second grade boy
in Kobe, Japan, and a Georgetownprofessor in Washington, DC,
exchanged ideas regularly.
There's some sweet pictures ofthem in that original video too.
How to adapt her methods for hishome set up some potential
(16:39):
improvements that he had wantedto make to her original study
back and forth across the worldby mail, and by the fall of 2022
just a few years ago, Joe wrotesaying the study was finished,
and this time, he sent 33 pagesof his research. Here is what he
had done, Joe raised theseswallowtail caterpillars and
(17:02):
trained them to associate thescent of lavender oil with a
mild electric shock. He alsodidn't agree with the severity
of the shocks that were used inthe university experiments and
trials, so he wanted to havethem a more gentle shock, a more
gentle smell. But even in this,Joe brought something the
(17:22):
original study hadn't. He didn'twant to hurt the caterpillars,
because, remember, these are hisfriends. He's in second grade.
He saw them as creatures that heloved and his friends that he
had spent so much time with. Sorather than selecting that shock
intensity at random or justputting the highest shock. This
little machine with the littlepads did 15 levels of shock. He
(17:44):
started at the lowest possiblelevel and watched and increased
it. And just like watched themso carefully for any signs of
distress, and at only level fourof these shocks, the
caterpillars extend this littleit's like a defensive organ.
It's very interesting in thevideo. It's this little thing
that comes out of theirforehead. It's kind of looks
(18:05):
like a Pokemon character. It'sthis little orange it's a
defensive organ, and it meansthat they're starting to feel
distressed. So at level four,they were extending that little
defensive organ out of theirforehead, and he said it was a
clear signal that they couldfeel it. And he stopped right
there, because he didn't want toharm them. And also, when he was
doing the experiment, instead ofapplying the shock directly to
(18:28):
the caterpillars, he put thecaterpillar on his little arm,
and then put the pad on thecaterpillar and his arm, because
he wanted to also feel the shockto monitor to make sure that it
was not at a harmful level. Ijust am obsessed with this
little boy. Hopefully you cansee why the story is so
incredible, even in this andeven in this far and because
(18:51):
he's using his own arm, ofcourse, he felt every single
shock himself. And he also had acontrol group, like any good
scientist would, a group ofcaterpillars who received no
training at all, no exposure tothe lavender, no shocks, no
training, just regular group ofcaterpillars that he was raising
for his control group so hecould properly compare them. And
then he waited and he watchedthem in their chrysalises. And
(19:13):
as part of this experiment, hebuilt this plastic it's like a
maze, almost like three tunnels,but they shape like a y, so one
primary hallway that they startin, and then it branches off to
these two other plastic tunnelsthat kind of looks like a y, and
it serves like a maze for them,right? So they start in that
(19:33):
initial arm, and then thatinitial hallway, and then it
splits into a V, and they eitherget to choose the side with a
little pad of lavender scent, orthe side that does not have the
lavender scent, because theintention is, you know, you put
sugar water on both sides. Oneside has that cotton pad with
the lavender. And when theyfinally emerge from the
(19:55):
chrysalis, you put them in themaze, and you see which side
they go to. The untrainedbutterflies, the one he didn't
do any, you know, exposure tothe lavender or the shocks. The
untrained butterflies, theysplit 5050, so in every
experiment, 5050, on either sideof that V from the original
tunnel, 50% went towards thelavender. 50% did not go towards
(20:17):
the lavender, sugar water onboth sides. And what happened to
the trained butterflies? If theuntrained ones seem to have no
preference, the trainedbutterflies, around 70% avoided
the lavender arm. So the memoryof being exposed to that
lavender with the shock ascaterpillars had completely
(20:37):
survived the metamorphosis, andeven as butterflies, 70% knew
not to go towards the lavenderscent, to go away from it. How
incredible is that the majorityhad remembered the experience of
the caterpillar had carriedthrough this dissolving through
the biologic soup and waspresent in the butterfly on the
(21:02):
other side. Joe was the firstperson in the world as a second
grader to demonstrate this inswallowtail butterflies in the
second grade. This is amazing tome. Dr Weiss said she was a
flabbergast, and she wasdelighted. She was like, Oh my
gosh, he's a real scientist.
(21:26):
He's figuring out new stuff.
This is incredible. Mostresearchers, most adults, would
have stopped there that findingalone was extraordinary and won
him a lot of awards. And you'llsee in that video, it shows him
on all of these different newsprograms and talk programs on
Japan. In Japan, it's very cool,but he didn't stop there. He,
(21:46):
like was still curious, and wehaven't even gotten to the part
of his experiment that shookscientists around the world.
Okay, so one day, sometime aftercompleting this, this
experiment, Joe was spendingtime with his family, and he
noticed something. He noticedthat his mom and his grandma all
(22:07):
suffered hay fever andmigraines, kind of the
allergies, right? And migraines,three generations, same
condition, something neither hismother nor his grandmother had
taught him to have right? Thisquestion that I have to tell you
made something go very quiet andvery still inside of me when I
(22:28):
heard it, because this is thequestion that changes
everything. Joe spent thefollowing summer raising a new
generation of caterpillars, theoffspring of the butterflies he
had already trained. So thosebutterflies from that lavender
experiment, they made babycaterpillars, and then he's
going to raise them, and he'sgoing to do some experiments
with them, these newcaterpillars, because they're
(22:51):
the next generation. They'dnever been exposed to the
lavender they've never felt ashock. They never learned
anything about any of this. Hehadn't trained them at all
because they were brand new babycaterpillars. And while other
kids played outside and didtheir summer activities, Joe
replaced leaves and tended tohis new baby caterpillars and
sat with them in these littletents all day in his house. It's
(23:14):
very sweet. He described them asfeeling like his children, and
and by late summer, they emergedas butterflies. And so he was
like, I'm going to do theexperiment again and place them
in that same wine maze with thelavender on one side and the
nothing on the other side, sugarin both sides, to see which side
they would go to. And do youknow what happened? They avoided
(23:38):
the lavender, not quite asstrongly as the first
generation, but significantly,statistically meaningful, the
experience of the parents hadleft a biologic trace that
carried forward without anydirect exposure. So only through
the biology would thesebutterflies have known to avoid
(23:59):
this lavender. He didn't exposethem to it at all. So Joe bred
them again, a third generation,grandchildren of the original
trained caterpillars, twogenerations removed from any
direct lavender, any directshock. And you know what
happened? They still avoided it.
(24:21):
They still went away from thelavender, even the third
generation, the grandkids of theoriginal experiment butterflies.
He also began to notice thatthis inherited behavior appeared
more strongly in the maleoffspring than the female
offspring, a potential genderlinked pattern that he noted
carefully, but with the wisdomto acknowledge that his data set
(24:43):
was still small, he would needmore trials and experiments
before he could draw a strongconclusion on this one, he was
10 years old and alreadypracticing scientific restraint,
so instead of just going forthat conclusion, he was saying,
well, his data sets too small. Ineed to do more control.
Experiments. And Joe presentedhis research at the
International Congress ofEtymology In Kyoto in 2024 so a
(25:09):
big bug convention. He was inthe fifth grade at the time, so
this would have been last year,or maybe a year and a half ago.
At the time, scientists who hadspent decades in the field lined
up to speak with him at thishuge convention. He was invited
to present his work privately tothe Crown Prince of Japan. And
in December 2024 Joe finally metdr Martha Weiss in person, his
(25:34):
pen pal, mentor, scientist whosepapers had inspired him and
started all this the woman hehad written from across the
world as an eight year oldlittle guy with hundreds of
pages of handwritten notes andquestions he refused to let go
of as of right now, Joe'sresearch is being prepared for
official publication, a realscientific paper with Dr Weiss
(25:57):
helping him through the process,and the two of them are already
designing new experimentstogether. The work's ongoing.
The story's still unfolding, andI just need to pause here,
because beyond everything thismeans scientifically, can we
just take a moment to be withJoe Nagai, who is a beautiful
(26:19):
soul, his self, this child, thislittle kindergartener,
initially, who noticed somethingbeautiful and refused to be told
it wasn't real, who reachedacross the world to a scientist
that was more than four timeshis age that he admired, and
said, I think you might be on tosomething, and so am I, And I
(26:40):
think I can improve on yourresearch. A little boy who
builds mazes out of materials hefound at home, who felt every
shock himself because he didn'twant his Caterpillar friends to
suffer unnecessarily, who tendedto and loved these friends and
practiced scientific restraintat 10 years old that many adults
(27:02):
wouldn't be able to do. Thecreator of the video that I
mentioned, that introduced me toJoe's story, said something at
the end of the video, it's onlylike a 15 minute video that I
haven't been able to stopthinking about either. He said
the whole thing wasn't born outof ambition. This is the part
that moved him the most. Thecreator of the video. It wasn't
(27:23):
it wasn't born out of ambitionJoe's like experiments this
wisdom or the pursuit ofscientific breakthrough. It was
actually simply a 10 year oldtrying to figure out whether his
butterfly friends could actuallyremember him after this
metamorphosis, this soul tosoul. Connection with a
butterfly was what reallysparked this whole thing, not an
(27:45):
ambitious pursuit, and that is asoul following its own thread,
that is pure, uncorruptedcuriosity. And what it found was
this child in his backyard inJapan, maybe one of the most
quietly profound discoveries ofour time, because here's where I
(28:07):
want to bring you with me. WhenI first watched Joe's story, I
watched it a couple of times Ifelt something I can only
describe as like a quietinternal glimmer or niggle or
nudge or tickle. You know thatfeeling? It's not like a
lightning bolt, it's not loud,it's not like a giant outside
(28:28):
revelation. It's more somethingin you that goes still and soft
and says, pay attention. Thisthread goes further than you
think. And my mind, my wholesystem, really started pulling
at that thread, because what Joehad discovered in his home in
Kobe is this memory, livedexperience, emotional
(28:51):
imprinting, learned response,can survive complete biologic
dissolution. It can survive thetotal transformation of physical
form, and it can carry forward,not just the same being, but
into the same, into the nextgeneration. So you know just how
the baby butterflies were awarenot to go towards the lavender.
(29:15):
Emotions and things that havebeen learned can be carried not
just from one form to the nextof this single butterfly, but
also into the generations afterthat. Now, as many of you know,
I work with the spirit world Ihave for more than a decade, and
what I witness in that workagain and again is something
(29:36):
that deeply rhymes or flows withwhat Joe found in his
butterflies, what carriesthrough from the other side is
not the body, it's not theillness, the limitation, the
struggle, or the challenges ofthe physical form, what carries
through is something moreessential than any of that,
(29:57):
personality, love, memory.
Memory, humor specific, like thethemness of a person, not a
fading recording of someone, notan echo, something present,
something alive, just like Joe'sbutterfly friends still
(30:17):
remembered him after theirmetamorphosis, so too does our
soul continue on and remember usafter the dissolution of our
physical bodies. This remindedme of a couple of client
stories. I'm going to share thembriefly, and I'm going to keep
them General. They're sensitivestories and their kids stories,
especially inspired by Joe thisfirst story that really dropped
(30:40):
into my mind as I wasexperiencing this video about
Joe and these beautiful,incredible butterflies, is this
client that I had I was workingwith a parent and a grandparent
of this lovely person on theother side, and what I came to
know that she shared through thereading was that she suffered a
(31:03):
lot in her physical body as partof her human experience. She let
me know that her mind processeddifferently, not the typical
processing level that sheprocessed at an age and capacity
that was younger than herphysical years, so she was
processing, I believe it waslike at about a kindergarten or
(31:25):
just slightly lower cognitivecapacity, although her physical
age, she did make it to justbefore 21 and she also shared
that She had a condition frombirth, a couple of different
conditions that made it veryhard for her to control her
muscle mobility, so she was in awheelchair. In her life, she
(31:50):
really didn't have a lot ofability to control her vocal
cords, to communicate in a verytypical and traditional way, and
to be able to move around anduse her body in a typical,
traditional way, and as a partof all of her medical
challenges, she would havedifferent versions of seizures
that would happen quitefrequently to her. And even
(32:13):
though I knew this part of herstory, and she did share with
her parent and grandparent tojust let them know that it
really was her. I could alsofeel her communicating at such a
profound level that was not akindergarten level, it was a
wise soul level. And not onlydid she share the story about
the medical part of herexperience, but she let me know
(32:36):
that she did have quite a sassypersonality in life, and she,
even though she couldn't, maybecommunicate verbally in a
typical way, she didcommunicate, and she did get her
point across. She had a sense ofhumor. She liked certain people
and disliked certain people, andshe would show me how her parent
that was caretaking her. Theywould have these like dance
(33:00):
parties in the house, especiallyin the morning, because she
wasn't so much a morning person.
She didn't love getting startedin the morning, and so her
parents put on these specialmusics for her, and they would
do kind of dances together, andshe would get laughing and get
happy, and it really made herday. And her mom had a special
(33:21):
way that she would pick outclothing with her, because she
did have preferences, and shedid have things that she liked
and disliked and wanted, andsome days she wanted, you know,
something over another thing, soshe really could express the
fullness of her personality. Andthe other thing she let me know,
and wanted her parent andgrandparent to know was that the
(33:44):
physical challenges were part ofher physical body, and once she
was not connected to thatphysical body anymore, once her
physical body had passed on, hersoul continued on, and her soul
was the fullness of who sheactually was, just like in Joe's
(34:04):
story, the struggle of thecaterpillar didn't define what
carried through to thebutterfly. Something much larger
did. The dissolution of thecaterpillar wasn't the end of
the story. It became thebutterfly, and so too with this
beautiful girl, the challengesand short and maybe seemingly
(34:24):
difficult life that she had herewas not the totality of her she
really did have all of thesewonderful experiences and
personality traits and sense ofhumor and the totality of her
soul continued on In a muchbigger way. And she shared
things about her parent and hergrandparent, things they had
(34:45):
just been talking about a tripthey recently took, a trip that
they wanted to take with her,but they couldn't get her
medically strong enough. So itreally, to me, is such a lovely
parallel. And I do feel likeJoe's work. With the butterflies
can unravel, and if we keeppulling these threads, I do
believe one day science mightcatch up with the spiritual,
(35:07):
spiritual work and let us knowtoo, that our souls do carry on.
Now, I know I talked about atthe beginning this reincarnation
question. So here's the questionthat I'm sitting with, that I am
inviting you to sit with with mehere on your own, and I want to
be honest with you, I don't havea definite answer. I have my
experiences through my work andthose of other teachers, but I
(35:30):
don't think anyone has adefinite, at least not
scientific answer yet. But Ithink it's a question worth
asking out loud and askingseriously, if a memory can
survive complete biologictransformation from that
caterpillar into that butterfly,if a lived experience can carry
forward, not just through onemetamorphosis, but into the next
(35:52):
generation, right the childbutterfly and the grandchild
butterfly, or with Joe and hisgrandma and mom, if things can
carry through, if livedexperience can carry forward,
right? Is it such a stretch towonder whether human
consciousness, human memory,human love, human essence, might
(36:14):
do something similar. If abutterfly remembers after its
transformation from one body tothe next recognizes, even if
it's not in a conscious level,something in its soul
recognizes, couldn't, to them betrue that something in us, human
beings, a totally different lifeform, could also do something
(36:37):
similar. Reincarnation is one ofthe oldest spiritual ideas that
carries across every majortradition and culture on the
earth. So the notion that thesoul or consciousness or
essence, whatever languageresonates with you, doesn't
simply end at our physical deathof our actual body, but
continues, transforms andpotentially enters a new life, a
(37:00):
new form, carrying somethingforward, science has
understandably been skeptical,but, you know, I don't think we
have to put that down justbecause science is skeptical.
Because how do you design anexperiment for something so
vast? I don't know, but I thinkJoe's butterfly experiment could
(37:22):
be the first thread in startingto help understand and prove
maybe even reincarnation. ButJoe Nagai, in his home in Kobe,
with his butterflies, asked asmaller version of that
question. He asked, Cansomething essentially survive
complete transformation in thebody, can it carry forward even
(37:43):
into a generation that neverexperienced the original event?
And the answer, at least forswallowtail butterflies, appears
to be yes. What scientists arebeginning to explore is
something called epigeneticinheritance. It's the idea that
experiences can alter how genesare expressed, and that those
alterations can be passed tooffspring generations without
(38:07):
any change to the underlying DNAsequencing. It's a relatively
young study in science and astill evolving field, but it's
legitimate, and it's expandingrapidly, and it suggests that
the boundary between onegeneration and what the next
generation carries is far morepermeable than we maybe once
(38:29):
assumed. So for those of us inspiritual communities, this is
not entirely surprising. Inspiritual work, in many
traditions, we teach that wecarry on not just our own soul's
history but the imprints of ourancestral line, right? That
ancestral healing, the patternsthat held in the family, can be
transformed by one personwilling to look at them clearly.
(38:51):
That healing work done in onegeneration can ripple forward
into the next. I believe it canalso ripple backwards into the
former generations. But whatJoe's butterflies opened up, at
least for me, sitting quietlywith this is something even
bigger than ancestral patterns,if memory and experiences can
(39:12):
survive the complete disillusionand rebuilding of the physical
body, if they can carry forwardinto generations with no direct
experience of the originalevent, then the question of what
happens to human consciousnessafter death of the physical body
starts to feel less like amatter of faith, right for the
(39:32):
faith community, and a littlemore like a genuinely open
scientific question. I'm notsaying Joe proved reincarnation.
He didn't. He proved somethingabout butterflies. But I'm a
medium. I can tell you what Ihave witnessed.
And you know, I think aboutanother kiddo that I worked with
(39:54):
early on in my work. I oftendon't remember my readings much
later, usually if i. Have a fewclients in a day. By the end of
the day, I may have forgotteneven the first session that I
had, but there have been a fewsessions or clients or spirit
loved ones that stay with meover the years, in my heart and
in my memory, and I'm thinkingabout another little person that
(40:19):
also crossed over veryunexpectedly, and this young boy
also passed away in an accidenton a beautiful, perfect day out
of nowhere. And it was avehicular accident, and no one
else in the vehicle passed away,but in this family group reading
this, this young person camethrough with ease and with humor
(40:44):
and with wit and charm andeverything that he was in his
under 10 years of life, that hegot to experience in that body
on this Planet, and he camethrough in so much fullness, and
he did acknowledge that hisparents had been with him in the
(41:06):
vehicle, and siblings, and hewas the only one that was
traumatically wounded. And theydid take him to the hospital.
And in helping me understandthat scene at the hospital, he
was really just acknowledgingall of the trauma and hurt that
each of his family members wereexperiencing through this, but
also was sharing that the traumadidn't define what he carried
(41:30):
through to the other side, thetrauma was part of his human
experience, But something muchlarger carried on, just like Joe
butter Joe's butterflies didn'tcarry the shock of the
experiment into the nextgeneration. They carried
something older and deeper,something that persisted, not
because of a painful experience,but in spite of it. And that's
(41:53):
often how I feel the loved oneswho have these more tragic,
traumatic passings. They don'tcarry scars from those passings
on their soul, just like thisboy that came through or
communicated to his family aboutthis accident that took him to
the other side, he acknowledgedthe accident, but it didn't scar
(42:14):
his soul. It wasn't a part ofdefining what he was able to
experience on the other side, ifanything, he came through with
playfulness and a little bit ofsarcasm. Even he was quite
intelligent. He was the youngestof the siblings, and was in the
reading even giving me details,sharing details with me about
his siblings, like teasing hissiblings and giving them a hard
(42:37):
time, and he acknowledged thatone of them had recently started
playing an instrument, like aschool, you know, school
sometimes lets kids playinstruments, and he was teasing
them because he was like,they're not very good yet, and
they sometimes say they'repracticing when they're not. And
it was just very funny, and thewhole family was laughing and
was like, Oh my gosh, that'sjust like him. He's, he's very
(42:58):
mischievous, and he's, you know,in the best possible way, just
such a special, important memberof the family. But I just
thought it was so incredible,because he didn't carry with him
all of that pain. He carriedwith him who he was as a soul.
So where does this leave us? Ithink about Joe Nagai and his
(43:21):
family in Japan, watching him inhis science experiments,
watching his butterflies flutterback and forth toward him, and
watching the scene in the videowhen he is trying to release
these butterflies and they keepflying back to him, keep flying
back and landing on him. And Ithink about what he was really
(43:44):
asking in his curiosity and hisexperiments, he was asking, does
something of me still live inyou to these butterflies, right?
Does what passed between us inthose early days when I was
taking care of you and lovingyou and when you were still
becoming what you would be, doesany of it remain? That was
really his question underneathof it all, and he found Yes, it
(44:07):
remains. It carries it movesforward, even into lives that
never directly knew the originalexperience. I work with people
who are asking a version of thatsame question every single day
they sit across from me, hopingthat some sign of what they
shared with someone they loveddidn't simply stop or disappear,
(44:28):
that the love, the memory, theconnection, that something of it
remains somewhere in the ethers,right In the beyond. And what I
can tell you, for more than adecade of sitting with the
spirit world, is what comesthrough is not a diminished
version of a person. It's not afading trace of their soul. It's
(44:51):
something that feels again andagain, not just preserved, but
expanded uncomfortable.
Contained is the word I have forit, as if whatever form
consciousness takes after ourphysical death is not smaller
than what it was, it's somehowmore, not unlike the butterfly
(45:13):
in Joe's experiments. I know, Idon't know exactly how it works,
right? I have ideas of of thespirit world, but I know I'm
only glimpsing just such a tinylittle crack in the proverbial
window. I don't know exactly howall of it works. I don't think
anyone does, not yet, but I dobelieve that we're living in a
moment where science and spiritare beginning to ask the same
(45:36):
questions from the samedirection within many of us, and
somewhere in the middle, in thatspace between that 10 year old
Jonah guys handwritten letterand that Georgetown professor's
mailbox, between a Y shapedplastic maze built out of
household materials and tape Anda standing ovation at an
(46:00):
international scienceconvention, something's being
revealed here. Joe Nagai pickedup a thread, and I believe if we
as humanity, if scientists,follow it far enough, it could
unravel something reallyextraordinary about the nature
of consciousness, of memory, andwhat it means for our souls to
(46:21):
continue on, isn't that, justlike the spirit world to hide
the biggest answers inside thesmallest, most unexpected
places, a boy, a butterfly, ascent of lavender and a question
that just might changeeverything? I hope this
episode's given you something tosit with, something to wander
(46:42):
wonder about. I know it has forme, and honestly it still is. It
touched my heart and gave mehope. Mr. Joe Nagai story. So if
Joe's story moved you, and Ireally hope it did, please go
and watch that video thatintroduced me to this. The
YouTube channel is called acurious Burb, B, I R, B, and I
will link that specific videodirectly in the show notes. This
(47:05):
creator makes beautiful,carefully researched content,
and this video in particular isjust stunning. Give it a watch.
Over a million people have. Givethem a follow. I definitely will
people who put that kind of loveand care into sharing knowledge
with the world I believe reallydeserve our support. And a
couple of exciting updates worthmentioning. Joe is Oh, the other
(47:29):
bit is in that YouTube video inthe pinned comments, this
creator has said that they willcontinue to give updates about
Joe, which I think is so cool.
So one of the updates that thissame creator has given is that
Joe is the research is currentlybeing prepared for official
scientific publication, with DrWeiss helping him through the
process, and the two of them,again are already designing new
(47:50):
experiments together to continueexploring how memory is
transmitted across generations.
This is not a finished story.
This is a story that is justbeginning, and if this episode
resonated with you, please shareit with someone who needs it,
someone who's curious, someonewho's grieving and wondering,
someone who's always had a quietfeeling that there's more going
(48:14):
on than what we can see, or evenjust someone that needs a little
hope or inspiration. I certainlyneeded this because I believe
there is more going on than whatwe see. I think Joe Nagai might
be helping us prove it. Followthe pod wherever you're
listening, and you can alwaysfind spirit speakeasy on your
favorite podcast platform.
(48:36):
Please leave a review or give mea like if you feel called or a
follow. It genuinely helps morepeople find this community, and
I will see you in the nextepisode. I have some exciting
announcements coming up, sodon't miss the next episode,
because I'm going to be doing alittle bit of a personal share
that I know you guys will wantto hear about. And let me know
(48:57):
if you are really excited tolearn more about how our soul
continues on. I'm wishing you aflood of butterflies and
inspiration in your life, and Iam hoping for a full flood of
butterflies and inspiration inmy life. Big hugs. Lots of love.
Bye for now. From inside spirit,Speak Easy. You.
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