April 27, 2025 • 40 mins
What separates good leaders from great ones? Emotional intelligence.
In this inspiring episode, leadership expert Isabelle Fortin shares hard-earned lessons from over 30 years of military and corporate leadership, offering entrepreneur motivation for leaders at every level. Discover why 98% of decisions are emotional — and how understanding this can completely transform how you lead, both in your startup journey or as a leader of an evolving team.
You'll learn:
- Why emotional intelligence is a leader’s ultimate superpower
- How tapping into emotions first creates better communication and stronger teams
- Practical strategies for improving leadership effectiveness and workplace culture
- Why embracing imperfection builds more trust and connection
- How human-centered leadership fuels business growth
If you're ready to lead with more authenticity, empathy, and impact, this conversation will show you how.
✨ Join the Starter Girlz community and unlock your leadership potential!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Isabelle Fortin (00:00):
And we all think that we're all these
things.
Truth be told is, when you takea decision or your initial
reaction to something in thebrain, there's two systems
system one and system two.
System one is emotional.
It's where your intuition lies,it's where all the data that
comes in either way, you know,through your ears, through your
(00:22):
eyes, through your senses, isprocessed, and this is when most
of your decisions are taken.
That's system one.
System two is it analyzes, itsolves very complex problems.
It's, you know, it's very,actually, really truly logical
and cerebral.
So that's system two.
(00:43):
Psychological and cerebral.
So that's system two.
What most people don'tunderstand and that includes
everybody, by the way, so I'mincluding myself is 98% of all
decisions that we take in a day,every day, all year in life, is
taken by system one.
Jennifer Loehding (00:59):
Welcome to the Starter Girlz podcast, your
ultimate source of inspirationand empowerment.
We're here to help womensucceed in every area of their
lives career, money,relationships, and health and
well-being while celebrating theremarkable journeys of
individuals from all walks oflife who've achieved amazing
things.
Whether you're looking tosupercharge your career, build
(01:21):
financial independence, nurturemeaningful relationships or
enhance your overall well-being,the Starter Girls Podcast is
here to guide you.
Join us as we explore thejourneys of those who dare to
dream big and achieve greatness.
I'm your host, jenniferLoehding, and welcome to this
episode.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Starter Girlz podcast,
(01:45):
wherever you are tuning in today, we are so glad to have you.
I'm your host, jenniferLoehding, and we are ready to
get this thing started.
So I want to open up with this.
What happens when someone takesthe structure and discipline of
the military, combines it witha passion for communication and
leadership and challenges theoutdated norms of the corporate
(02:06):
world?
You get a bold new perspectiveon what leadership should look
like, one that puts people first, and so I am so excited about
this today because I have got tolike spend time with this
amazing lady, like before thisshow and on a previous
conversation.
I love her spirit, her energy.
She's like a fireball.
So this is just going to be, Ithink, an incredible episode.
(02:26):
But before we can get her on tochat with us, we got to do a
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(03:10):
All right and with that I wantto make one more mention to head
on over to startergirlz.
com.
That's a Z, not an S.
I say it every time.
Why you want to go over there?
For a couple of reasons.
If you have missed an episode,you can find them all on there.
They're all updated every week.
The other thing is you can signup to be in our community and
you can stay in the know as towhat is happening in the
(03:31):
Stargirls world and what we'reputting out, but also there is a
free quiz on there and it is alot of fun.
It is a two-minute quiz.
It will help you figure outwhat your number one success
block block is that may beimpacting your success right now
.
So head on over there, take thefree quiz, get signed up in the
community and catch up on allthe episodes that you missed,
and we're going to bring ourguest on.
(03:51):
So I'm excited.
Let's get this thing rolling.
My guest today, Isabelle Fortin,began her journey in the Royal
Canadian Air Force, where shespent a decade honing
communication and leadershipskills, eventually attending the
prestigious Royal CanadianLeadership School, but it was
her transition into thecorporate world that sparked a
deeper mission.
Dismayed by theevery-person-for-themselves
(04:12):
mentality she encountered,isabel set out to reimagine
leadership from the ground up.
Now, with over 30 years ofcombined military and business
leadership experience, sheempowers human-centered leaders
to tap into the uniqueness ofevery team member.
Using a revolutionarybehavioral and motivation
assessment tool, isabel helpsCEOs and HR leaders improve
(04:33):
communication, culture,retention and profitability.
She's also the dynamic host ofthe Human Leader Livestream and
a powerful speaker andconsultant known for her
customized against the ordinaryapproach.
And so, Isabelle, welcome tothe show.
We are so excited to have youhere today.
Isabelle Fortin (04:50):
Thank you so much, jennifer.
You know what, every time Ihear my bio being read to me, I
go holy how, like when did I getold?
Well, how is it that I have 30years experience?
And I, seriously this thoughtgoes through my mind and I go
yeah, I have over 30 yearsexperience.
Isn't that crazy how that is.
Jennifer Loehding (05:11):
I always joke .
I say this, you know it's funny, because I feel like almost
every episode we do, somebodysays something about the bio and
I tell people they've heardthat my listeners know this is
my favorite part.
I mean, I love all theconversation, but I really love
crafting these because I thinkthose bios are so freaking
powerful.
You know, like we get, like youjust said, we lose sight of
(05:32):
where we've come and where weare.
We get so used to it because wejust wake up and that's who we
are every day.
Right, but it almost puts usback in that perspective of
going, wow, I did all thosethings and look how far I've
come and look at what I'm doingnow and the impact I'm creating,
and so I just think they're funand they're powerful and I
really enjoy crafting them foryou, for all y'all, when you
(05:52):
come on here.
Well, you do a good job at it,thank you, thank you.
Hopefully you feel special.
That's what we want.
I do.
I am special, that's right.
That's right, all right, well,well, let's get this thing
rolling here.
So I want to talk about whatyou are doing, because you're
what your leadership is a bigthing.
Isabelle Fortin (06:07):
We're talking about culture, so tell us a
little bit about this company,what you're doing for your
clients, well, so what I do formy clients is I help the leaders
tap into the unique abilitiesof every single individual on
the team.
And why do I do that?
Well, well, because everybodywins, the company wins, the
bottom line wins, the leaderwins and the employees win.
(06:28):
Because when you know what isthat special thing about you,
what is it that you contributeto the team that nobody else
does, what is it when they tapinto that, your own unique
ability?
Well, as an individual, as anemployee, you feel you know,
seen, heard, valued, because youare all these things.
(06:52):
But it also has what I call thedinner table effect.
When you go to work and youspend, I don't know, 40, 50, 60
hours a week, you know onlocation, or even you know from
your home, on your computer, andyou know what it is that you
contribute that nobody else does.
(07:12):
Well, what does that do to yourday and what does that do to
your mood?
So you show up better at yourdinner table.
You show up better for yourkids, for your spouse, for your
community, for your parents,your siblings, your friends and
everybody.
And it impacts their lives andthe people that they are in, you
(07:33):
know, in conversations or incontact with, so it affects
everybody.
Yeah, that's why I do it.
Ultimately, that's how I do itbecause, for extremely selfish,
I want to use my own uniqueabilities to impact the world so
that I know how I contributedto the world.
(07:54):
If I work with leaders, that isthe way to impact the most
amount of people.
Jennifer Loehding (08:00):
Yeah, yeah, no, I agree with you on that and
I like that you said the partabout like they have the impact
around, with the people that arearound them, because I think a
lot of us I'm sure not everybody, but a lot of us that's kind of
the way we think I know.
That's why I do the work, and Ijust told somebody this the
other day for selfish leading,they're making a difference.
Like our world is smoother,right, like it really is just
(08:28):
smoother.
And I you know, say our worldwould be better today if we had
more leaders in it.
You know what I mean Morepeople that could rise up and be
effective at communication andall those things that we need to
be great leaders.
So, yes, there is the potentialto have.
You know the impact on thosearound us, and it can be simple
things, as you know the impacton those around us.
And it can be simple things asyou know how you're raising your
children, to how you're youknow handling media.
(08:48):
You know and community groupsthat you're involved in, to how
you're dealing with people atwork, your your.
You know your peers and, ifyou're in leadership, your
employees.
Isabelle Fortin (08:57):
Absolutely.
It impacts the world.
That's where we stand.
The most time awake, obviously,in our lives is is at work yeah
, so if you wake up on mondaymorning and and you're, you know
, feeling crappy because youhave five days of this crap to
(09:17):
go through, man, there'ssomething wrong.
Yeah, and I don't think.
I truly don't think we were puton this planet to suffer for
five days and enjoy only two.
Come on, life is better thanthat.
Jennifer Loehding (09:30):
Yeah, no, I agree, you don't.
You want to be living for likeFriday, right, it's always
Monday and Friday.
I always joke and say it'salways Monday and Friday, but
it's not because I'm having baddays and I'm dreading going back
.
It's just because I'm so dangbusy and loving what I'm doing
all the time.
I'm like freaking.
Friday always shows up and thenit turns around and it's Monday
and the week is starting overagain.
I'm like dude, how does it goby so fast?
I'm like it does every week.
(09:51):
I feel like just flies throughfor me and probably you too.
I probably had the whole worldseparate when you're a kid.
Isabelle Fortin (09:56):
You know what?
It's so funny that you say that, jennifer, because this morning
, every morning, I write myjournal and I wrote the date and
I went you know April 7th, andyou know I, I keep on writing
and I I stopped myself for aminute and I said how the, how
the heck, are we the 7th ofApril already?
Yeah, it was April 1styesterday.
(10:19):
How did six days pass?
without me noticing anything butthe older we get, the more this
is, you know, a real thing inour lives.
Time is going by so bloodyquickly, so you know, you truly
have to make the most out of it.
Right, you know, grab the ballsand have fun, dude, because if
(10:44):
you blink too often, your lifeis going to be over.
Jennifer Loehding (10:47):
Yeah, yeah, and you want to be effective in
that time.
Absolutely, leader, right, yeah, absolutely, that's so great.
So when your clients come totalk to you, you said you're
working with leaders, now you dospeaking as well.
So are you going and doing likeworkshops with these guys, or
(11:08):
is it more like a one-on-onetype training?
Isabelle Fortin (11:09):
that you're doing in this leadership
capacity.
It is all of that.
So I'm I'm a keynote speaker.
That's one part of my businessand then, truth be told, that's
the part that I love the most.
Yeah, I imagine that.
Yes, because I was given thegift of lab, but when I work
with a leader, I rarely ithappens once in a while where I
(11:31):
will only work with theindividual, but most of the time
I work with the leader and theteam.
So the first thing that I do iseverybody goes through my
assessment, and it's actuallyfrom Switzerland.
It's called the NOVA assessment.
It's a quote-unquotepersonality test, right?
(11:53):
I cannot tell you how much Ihate that term, because nobody's
personality is there to betested, so I prefer a
psychometric assessment becausein reality, that's exactly what
it is.
So everybody goes through thatand everybody goes through their
own personalized debriefingthat lasts 90 minutes.
(12:16):
It's not a small thing.
The report that I get from theNova platform, from the
assessment, is anywhere between25 to 40 pages long, so it's a
real in-depth way of how is yourbrain connected?
That's basically what theassessment is telling me.
Everybody goes through their ownindividual thing, but then
(12:39):
after that, there's two thingsthat happen.
The first thing is I will doquick or quicker debrief of
every single individual to theleader and with that I provide
what I call a cheat sheet.
So instead of having the leaderthat is all already overwhelmed
(13:00):
, overbooked and doesn't havetime overwhelmed, overbooked and
doesn't have time instead ofhaving them read the 25 to 40
pages report on each of theirteam members, I create a
three-day, a three-pages thingsaying hey, listen, this is how
you better communicate, this iswhat to avoid and this is what
you tap into to get the bestresult for each and every
(13:23):
individual.
So then I have the meeting withjust the leader about 13
minutes.
By then we all come togetherand that part of my business I
call the prenuptial agreement.
I can tell you why Because thisis life.
You're going to have a bad day,your colleague is going to have
(13:44):
a bad day.
Your colleague is going to havea bad day, your boss is going
to have a bad day.
People are dealing with stuffyou know nothing about, and you
know nothing about them becauseit's none of your business.
And that's okay, because notevery part of ourselves belongs
to our coworkers.
So conflict is going to arise,period, that is, if you're
(14:06):
dealing with more than one human, there's going to be potential
for conflict.
So what I do is I have theentire team come together and we
come up with the strategy ofhow we're going to deal with one
another with empathy, withkindness, with patience, with
empathy, with kindness, withpatience, and with the profound
(14:30):
understanding that every memberof the team is just a human
doing their damn best at everygiven moment, and when you come
up with a strategy that worksfor them.
So for me, there's nocookie-cutter workshop that I
take from one team apply to theother team and every single
thing that I do with a companyor with a team is customized to
(14:55):
that particular team, becausenot everybody works the same and
therefore, no, not every.
Every team.
Yeah, so that's basically whatI do, and after that it's
interesting Keeps on wanting towork with me on an individual
level.
Then I do, because then I can,you know, say how.
(15:17):
How do you apply that on yourdaily life?
Yeah, because you know what.
I say that all the time.
Jennifer, a psychometricassessment is like a treadmill.
Threadmills are extremelyefficient If you put them in the
basement and all it does iscollect dust.
(15:38):
You're not going to be silly Ifyou put it in front of your
television, and every time youwant to watch the TV, you have
to be walking on the treadmill.
Holy goodness, gracious, you'regoing to get a lot of results.
Same thing applies toeverything in your life, but
same thing applies forpsychometrics.
Jennifer Loehding (15:58):
Yeah, no, it makes sense and well and
interesting, because I justrecently developed a four-step
system that I use to work withmy clients and that is a piece
of what I do in there too.
It's not probably as in-depthas yours and I love this and
it's making me think.
Right now I need to figure outmy own, some kind of assessment
that I want to do for that, butit's not as prevalent as what
(16:21):
I'm doing in my particularsituation.
But that is a big thing,because my point to this is that
it's important to know yourstrengths and weaknesses because
you can thrive better.
It's not that we want to focuson the weaknesses or be like
over here.
It's just that I think it's allpart of self-awareness when
we're talking aboutself-awareness, right, and it's
really tying into emotionalintelligence, equitability,
(16:43):
whatever the word EQ, whateveryou want to call it right
Emotional coach, whatever it'sknowing, whatever you want to
call it right Emotional coach,whatever it's knowing where
you're going to thrive right,because if you can understand
how you work and operate fromthe employee perspective,
they're going to, like you said,be heard, feel, seen, all of
those things because they'regoing to be in an environment
where now they're thriving rightand for the employer, they're
(17:04):
going to have more efficiencybecause now they're putting
people in the right places andthey know how to work with them
and what to do with them.
And like you know, like it'salmost like you know, I was just
talking to somebody yesterday,funny enough, and she was she's
a French teacher.
Funny enough and I took French.
It's always fun.
We met somebody, connected us.
We went to a cute little Frenchrestaurant here in town and we
were talking about.
She was telling me how shefeels sometimes she's a people
(17:25):
person and maybe not as much onthe logic side, and I said you
know, sometimes we really needwe need more people over logic.
We thrive on being practicaland logical, but when you're
dealing with humans, we need tobring a little more people into
this.
And I think that by doing that,what you're talking about is
(17:46):
you're really kind of doing thatbecause you're saying, yes, I
may want to do this because thislooks right for my systems, and
this person took a, took a, gota degree in this particular
place and we put them there, butthey're not thriving there.
That's not where they are doingtheir best.
And how many people do we knowgo get degrees right and they
realize midstream they don'teven like what they're doing
(18:06):
right Because it's not inalignment with what they see
themselves doing, in alignmentwith what they're good at right.
Like I studied accounting andthen I realized in the middle of
that I was like, okay, I'm goodat math, but I just can't sit
behind a desk and do numbers allday.
I need to be in front of people, talking and engaging, and I
might just put me you know, youmight.
(18:27):
Maybe you just put me inWalmart as a greeter and I might
be happy because I just need togreet people.
I'm joking about that, but I'ma person that needs to be like
talking to people and engagingand not sitting behind the desk.
And so I think there'sdefinitely a need for
understanding, as in from anemployer perspective, how your
people thrive, so that you canget them in the right places and
(18:50):
they can feel heard and seenand they're going to be happier.
Isabelle Fortin (18:54):
And you know what I want to bounce off
something you said if you, if I,if I may, you know, we all
think ourselves for ourselves,we'll think, you know and you
know.
But I'm a rational being andI'm logical and we all think
that we're all these things.
Truth be told is, when you takea decision, or your initial
(19:14):
reaction to something, in thebrain, there's two systems
system one and system two.
System one is emotional.
It's where your intuition lies,it's where all the data that
comes in either way, you know,through your ears, through your
eyes, through your senses, isprocessed, and this is when most
(19:36):
of your decisions are taken.
That's system one.
System two is you know, itanalyzes, it solves very complex
problems.
It's very, actually, reallytruly logical and cerebral.
So that's system two.
Well, what most people don'tunderstand and that includes
(19:59):
everybody, by the way, so I'mincluding myself is 98% of all
decisions that we take in a day,every day, all year, in life,
life, is taken by system one,which means it is emotional, it
is irrational, it is full ofcognitive biases.
(20:20):
And, by the way, guys,cognitive biases, you have some
period right, don't think youdon't have any, you do.
And everybody has Right andeverybody does, I should say,
and it's not laziness, it'sshortcut that your brain created
out of necessity, because yourbrain takes 20% of all of the
(20:43):
energy of your entire body, eventhough it weighs about two
pounds, two and a half pounds.
So that's why it created biases.
So we all have some.
So if you truly, truly want toappeal to the logic of somebody,
so have access to system two.
You have to acknowledge systemone.
(21:04):
But we don't, because if I'm ina conflict with you, I want you
to do what I want.
That's right.
Right, ultimately, and you wantme to do what you want, right?
If both of us knock heads, Imean we get along.
But if both of us knock headsfrom system one to system one
and system one to system one allof the time, it like taking a
(21:27):
rock, hitting your head on itand keep on hitting your head,
because that's all you'regetting.
So, in order to get to System 2and actually have a
quote-unquote, intelligentconversation, you have to
acknowledge the other person'semotion.
You have to acknowledge theother person's emotion.
That's where empathy andadaptability and all of the EQ
(21:51):
comes into play.
So it's so funny because I had aspat with my boyfriend
yesterday and, truth be told, weare in a recent relationship
for our age I'm 53, he's 59.
We've been together a year, soI mean it's not that long we
don't't live together and thankgoodness for that.
(22:12):
We're not gonna um.
So yeah, no, I'm not billed forcohabitation, I really am.
I love it.
You're like no, we're just notdoing that exactly and and he's
not built for it either.
So, thank goodness we found oneanother.
But anyway, back to the originalstory, we're having a spat
yesterday and my system one isscreaming at me W-T-F, right.
(22:44):
So instead of saying, for thelove of God, can you tell me why
you did it this way?
I caught myself, and that's thetruth.
Is that yeah, so yeah.
And instead of saying wtf, Iwent honey, pause.
(23:04):
Can you please help meunderstand this particular
behavior of yours, because it'striggering stuff inside me and I
would like to understand youbetter so we can come together
and this behavior not affect methe way it's affecting me.
You think we got mad at oneanother.
Jennifer Loehding (23:27):
No, we sat down and we talked not affect me
the way it's affecting me.
You think we got mad at oneanother.
No, it was it came.
Isabelle Fortin (23:31):
Yeah, we sat down and we talked.
We talked with an open heart andan open mind and when that was
over, nobody was mad and we cameto an understanding and an
agreement that when he does thatbecause more than likely it's a
behavior Right, more thanlikely it's a behavior right,
more than likely it's going toarise again before it's
corrected right and I know ithas nothing to do with me now,
(23:56):
so I'm not going to get mad atit and I'm just going to say,
you know, can it's, maybe, it'smaybe not do that, and then, and
then he can, he can autocorrect if, if I catch him, or
if he catches himself, yeah,that's it right, is that easy?
(24:18):
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, not easy.
No, it's just that I knew thatif I got mad and rose some hell
because that's my style, then Iwould not get what I want, right
.
So even if we take for grantedand it isn't true, I know it
(24:40):
isn't true Even if we took forgranted that I did that for
selfish reasons.
So what Right?
Right, it's getting better,it's better.
It's.
Who is his, by the way?
yeah, no conflict don't get atemper on me, let me tell you,
you know, I can probably figurethat out, I'm hot-blooded.
(25:02):
But hot-blooded is not gonnawork with him, right, right.
Jennifer Loehding (25:07):
So if I want him in my life, I have to adjust
that too so it's just, it justbecomes better right, yeah, no,
and and I want to I want tocommend you on something very
back in the beginning when youwere talking about the systems,
because I think this is, this isso good because I'm aware of
all that, but I've never hadanybody quite put it in that
(25:28):
perspective and I think it'sreally good from a practical
standpoint because you paintedthat as logical and practical
System one, system two.
You got to go through systemone to get to system two and I
would agree with you on everypiece of that.
I've just never heard anybodyquite put it in that way.
So I commend you on that,because somebody listening to
this may have said you know thesame thing, I've heard that but
(25:50):
never quite thought of it thatway.
Or maybe somebody thatespecially men, because they
don't get a lot of times thislogic and practical, they just
know logic, right.
And it's funny because I feellike I just had this
conversation with my husbandyesterday too I think it was, or
maybe it was Saturday morningabout this.
We were talking about thepeople over logic that you can't
always just say the things youwant to say, because if you're
(26:11):
doing this in the middle of aconversation, the other person
may not feel seen or heard, andnow you have, basically, they're
gonna feel gaslighted, and now,whatever you have to say, they
don't care about at this point,because they've already felt
unseen and unheard.
Okay, so now they're shuttingyou down, and so all of this
we're talking about here is soimportant.
I feel like we could have awhole conversation on
(26:31):
communication, role play,communication for people, right,
because it is so huge andpeople don't get it.
And when you start to learnthese things like you were
talking about the pausing andall of that, like I talk you
know I do that too I alwaysthink about like, okay, if I say
this, is this what we want tobe saying right now, is this
going to be effective?
Is it going to cause a biggerproblem if we do this?
I mean, these are things thatyou have to learn to do.
(26:53):
We don't just wake up and weknow how to do these behaviors
right.
I didn't learn this skill.
I had to work on trainingmyself, and I say that with a
little disclaimer that I'm alsohuman, so I'm not perfect, and
I'm sure you're not either.
We do mess up sometimes, right,but we try to do it and I think
of it sort of like doing CPR,like if you train to do CPR and
(27:13):
you had to use it.
You may not be a hundredpercent, know everything, but
you're going to do something,and something's better than
nothing.
And that's how I feel aboutthis kind of stuff.
When we're talking aboutleadership is that the more you
continue to learn, yes, you'regoing to mess up.
You're not going to be 100%perfect all the time, but you're
going to keep getting bettereach time that you work through
these things, and then you justbecome more effective at
(27:36):
communication and working withyes, personal, intimate
relationships, but alsocolleagues, employees, all those
things on the other side, otherfamily members, all of it it
applies everywhere.
Isabelle Fortin (27:48):
Yes, applies everywhere, because the way that
you get your boss to give you araise, the way that you
negotiate with your husband oryour wife or your life partner
whatever you want to call thatperson on where to go on
vacation, whether you'renegotiating with a four-year-old
so that they eat their broccoli, it's the same, it's the same
sort of thing it is.
(28:09):
And we're coming, you knowespecially.
I mean, we're not in our 30s.
I have 35 years experience, soobviously I'm not in my 30s
anymore, and the older that Iget, and the more not only am I
able and willing I should saywilling to show that I am
(28:32):
imperfect, but I am embracingthat imperfection.
Yeah, because you know whatPerfect would be boring as hell,
I agree.
So you know what?
Sometimes I mess up my, youknow, I put one foot in my mouth
and there's still room, so Iput the other foot and it's just
yeah, and it's and it's messyand it's.
(28:54):
And thank God for that.
Yeah, thank God, it's so funny.
I read a book a long, long, longtime ago and it was about
exactly that.
He says okay so, says okay.
So the the first chapter startswith like that okay, so imagine
you're going on vacation to anice, you know, exotic resort
(29:15):
and it's beautiful and it's, youknow, let's say, 85 degrees,
like warm, but not too warm, andit's not humid, it's by the sea
and you've got a little breeze,you're feeling, feeling happy.
It's like, oh, perfect weather,and you get a week of that.
It's like, oh, perfect weather,and you get three weeks of that
.
It's like, oh yeah, it's nice.
(29:37):
And you get six weeks of thatand you go when the hell is it
going to rain?
Right, right, because you needthe rain.
The rain washes everything, andso I feel that that's the
beauty of life.
Sometimes we fight with ourspouses or we fight with our
kids, or we fight with ourfriends, and it clears the path.
(30:04):
It clears the path for bettercommunication and sometimes it
just clears the path, becausesometimes you're going to speak
your truth and somebody is goingto be offended by it and
they're going to walk out ofyour life, and if they walk out,
that's okay.
Jennifer Loehding (30:18):
Let them overarching message here is
really just about effectiveleadership and communication.
So I love all of this.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour show, what you got going on
with that, so people know alittle bit about it.
Isabelle Fortin (30:34):
Oh, I haven't had an episode in a long time,
to be honest with you, because Igot overwhelmed with stuff to
do and clients.
Jennifer Loehding (30:42):
You're just too busy.
You know, changing lives, it'sokay, it happens.
Isabelle Fortin (30:46):
Yeah, but actually, you know, changing
lives it's okay, it happens,yeah, but actually, you know,
thank you for the questionbecause it's um, putting putting
back in my mind.
Um, it was truly about meetingleaders and finally, it was
short, like half an hour, and itwas about knowing, okay, so
what'd you learn?
How'd you learn it?
And if you could teach yourselfsomething about, you know,
(31:08):
teach your younger selfsomething about leadership, what
would it be like to say?
And you know what, jennifer, itall boils down to the same
thing.
It all boils down to the samething.
It's listening and being thereand truly tapping into the
(31:31):
individual.
Yeah, because that's how youget the most out of it.
And yeah, you know what humanbeings we need to be seen, heard
and valued.
But honestly, the level of ourneeds is not you just say thank
(31:52):
you, you just can profoundlymean it and that's it, that's
the energy behind it.
And you just tell someone hey,by the way, I haven't even a
colleague.
Hey, I haven't told you in awhile, but you know what you did
in this particular thing.
Oh, goodness gracious, if itwasn't for you, we would have.
You know, it would have beenmuch, much, much harder or it
(32:16):
would have taken longer if itwasn't for your contribution,
and they will ride on that wavefor weeks.
Yeah, and they'll be willing tocrawl through broken glass Not
that they should.
Jennifer Loehding (32:31):
Yeah, yeah, so no, and I'm glad that I asked
you that, so maybe you'll bringit back now that I asked you
this.
You know it's funny.
I have another another I wasdoing two shows for a while, so
I have another one out there too.
That's kind of.
It's got so many great storieson it that I've just left it
accessible because I don't wantto take it down now, because I
know people.
You know the stories are greatand people want to listen to
(32:52):
them, so, but no, I think it'sgreat and that's one of the
things I love about this show isthe stories is talking to
people about you know, whatthey've done and what they've
learned in that process, and Ifeel like the truths are all
universal.
People say a lot of the samethings.
They just take a spin on them alittle bit differently, and I
think that's what's beautiful isthat we all can walk into this
(33:13):
from different places and havethese journeys that are a little
bit they're unique, but there'sa lot of universal truths in
them that shine through, youknow, and so I think this one
we're talking today has reallybeen a lot about, you know,
embracing uniqueness and theindividual.
Obviously, you are a uniqueindividual and I'm a unique
individual and I'm probablyyou're probably thinking like I
am, like I'm not going to bestrapped in a box.
(33:33):
I don't want anybody to tell mewhat I'm supposed to be doing
and what I'm not, because I'mprobably not going to go along
with that.
It has to be my thing.
My journey, my path, my podcast,my work, all of it.
It has to be my thing.
You know, and you know there'sI think there's great things in
learning stubbornness.
You know it can be a bad thingsometimes, but it has certainly
(33:54):
served me well in many timesover my years.
So I think you know embracingour uniqueness is important here
, and I think you're givingpeople permission to do that and
you're showing your leadersthat they too don't have to be
cookie cutter, mold type people.
They can be different and theycan embrace their people and
show them a culture where theytoo can be unique individuals,
(34:17):
you know.
Isabelle Fortin (34:18):
And you know what?
It's so funny?
Because when everybody talks tome about fitting in a box, I go
I'm 5'10", 175 pounds.
I don't fit in the damn box,you don't fit in it.
No, I don't, I don't fit.
That's great.
No, I don't, I don't fit and Inever.
You know, and you know what,jennifer, you and I both, even
though we don't come from thesame place, we're both lucky
(34:42):
enough to be born in a freecountry.
I live in a country where Ihave freedom of speech, freedom
of religion, freedom to lovewhomever I want, and nobody's
going to make me shut up.
Worst case scenario I'll lookstupid and I'm okay with that.
Jennifer Loehding (34:59):
Yeah, yeah.
So sometimes you gotta lookstupid, you know.
I mean, when we think about it,a lot of people that have done
great things have looked stupidin the process of, you know, in
face of great doing great things.
So there's nothing wrong withthat.
I think that comes with part ofyou know.
Part of the risk that you takeis, you know, being whatever it
is you're pursuing, or whetherit's a passion project, or being
(35:20):
a voice to something, whateverthat is, and so I think you're
doing a great thing by givingpeople that freedom to do that.
There's nothing wrong with that, so it's all good.
So I imagine that somebodylistening.
You know it's funny.
I never know where theseepisodes are going to go.
And it's so funny because wespent a lot of time today
talking about something that'sreally important and that's
great, because I think peopleneed to hear these things about
(35:40):
communication on it, becauseit's not just a one thing Like
you just need to navigate it inthe home, you need to navigate
it everywhere.
Or let's say, just say thisbottom line You're not going to
get what you want.
You're not going to get what youwant If you don't learn to
communicate.
You're going to be miserable.
You're going to be a miserableperson.
You got to learn to communicate, so this is really good and
it's good for all.
It doesn't matter how old youare.
You've got to learn tocommunicate Right.
And so I think this is soimportant topic.
(36:01):
But I say that because I neverknow where these episodes are
going to lead to, and that'swhat I think is so beautiful
about these conversations isthey're unique and they're just,
however we up and flow thisthing.
So I know somebody listening tothis today is going to be like
okay, where do I find thisisabel girl?
I like her personality, I needto catch up with her, follow her
(36:21):
, check her workout, whatever.
Where do you want us to sendthem?
Isabelle Fortin (36:25):
and my website is againsttheordinaryorg,
because I am against theordinary period, but against the
ordinary leadership as well.
Uh, and you can find me on, uh,linkedin.
If you're listening to theaudio, it's Isabel Fortin, the
one with the purple hair,because there's a bunch of us I
think there's 150 of us, so findthe one with the purple hair
(36:49):
and uh, you know, uh, uh, I wasgoing to say linkedin.
I just said that youtube andall these things, it's isn't
important, it's not pretty easyit's awesome and so I'm gonna.
Jennifer Loehding (37:03):
I'm gonna say this I would imagine that as a
child you were not like just thethe easy going along with
everything kind of child right,like you, always kind of a
little bit, a little bit of afighter I really wasn't I, I
will tell you that because I wasmaybe.
Isabelle Fortin (37:18):
I was in the military anymore, but I was
working for a corporation andduring a meeting one of the uh
c-suite shushed me in a meetingand I looked at him and I was
maybe I must have been early 30s.
And I looked at him and I wasmaybe I must've been early
thirties.
And I looked at him dead in theeyes.
I said my dad couldn't make meshut up when I was eight.
(37:40):
What chance do you think youstand today?
Nobody makes me shut up.
Worst case scenario disagreewith what I'm saying, but I get
to speak.
And no, no, no, no, I'm yeah.
I might've been a sad kid,though I was a very, very sad
child.
So yeah you, nobody makes meshut up, I'm laughing.
Jennifer Loehding (38:04):
I didn't mean to interrupt you.
I'm just thinking if you and Ihad been friends cause we're
about the same age If you and Ihad been friends when we were
little, we would have been introuble.
I think we would have been introuble because I was telling
somebody the other day, like my,I was the kid and I'm going to
end this, but I want to tellthis story really good, but it's
because it's funny and you'regoing to get it.
I was the kid that my mom wouldsay to me when I was little.
(38:32):
She would say go, stand in thecorner forever because I was not
going to give in to theargument that I was arguing
about.
I was going to stay there untilI got released and she'd
finally just be like go to yourroom, I'm tired of looking at
you.
I have a joke now as an adult,like if I'm onto something I'm
like and most of the time I'mjoking about this but I'll say
(38:53):
you're not going to win thisargument, I can assure you I can
stand in a corner for a verylong time.
Isabelle Fortin (39:01):
Yeah, I was.
I had the same, the same reason, the same reasoning.
But I do the opposite is, I doapologize, even if I didn't mean
it, because you wanted to getout.
Yeah, I want to get out, so Iwas.
I didn if I didn't mean itbecause you wanted to get out.
Jennifer Loehding (39:13):
Yeah, you wanted to get out.
No, you were smarter than I was.
I didn't care.
Yeah, you were smarter.
I was like I'm not giving in,I'm not telling you, I'm sorry,
because I don't think I'm wrong.
So I'm just not giving in.
You're just going to leave mein this corner forever, right?
Isabelle Fortin (39:29):
And I'm telling to myself well, you know, you
can't control where I amphysically, but you can't
control what I think.
So I'm going to tell you whatyou don't want to hear, and then
I'll be over with.
Jennifer Loehding (39:40):
Yeah, no, I appreciate that, isabel, you are
.
You're an amazing person.
I love your boldness and youruniqueness and your purple in
your hair and all of that.
It's all good stuff, and weneed bold people in the world.
The world would be very dull ifwe did not have unique and bold
in the world.
We need it Right.
So this has been so awesome.
I want to thank you for thetalk and giving us your wisdom,
and I really you know it's Ievery episode.
(40:01):
I remember bits and pieces andI really liked the system thing
you talked about today, becauseyou just made it in a, in a
fashion where somebody maybe onthe that wants to claim they're
on the logical, practical sidemight be able to grab onto that
and understand that and run awaywith it the next time they go
to communicate.
So thank you for all of that.
It's been awesome.
Thank you for having me.
Isabelle Fortin (40:19):
It's been a great conversation, as usual,
awesome.
Jennifer Loehding (40:23):
All right, and, of course, to our audience.
We love you, appreciate you.
Thank you for tuning into thisepisode.
We hope you found it bothinspiring and informative.
You found it both inspiring andinformative and if you did, do
all the things, share it, likeit, comment, do all the things
so we can keep sharing all thefabulous content with you guys.
And I want to leave you withwhat I always say at the end of
every episode In order to livethe extraordinary, you must
(40:43):
start, and every start beginswith a decision.
You guys, take care, be safe,be kind to one another and we
will see you next time.
And we all think that we're all these
things.
Truth be told is, when you takea decision or your initial
reaction to something in thebrain, there's two systems
system one and system two.
System one is emotional.
It's where your intuition lies,it's where all the data that
comes in either way, you know,through your ears, through your
(00:22):
eyes, through your senses, isprocessed, and this is when most
of your decisions are taken.
That's system one.
System two is it analyzes, itsolves very complex problems.
It's, you know, it's very,actually, really truly logical
and cerebral.
So that's system two.
(00:43):
Psychological and cerebral.
So that's system two.
What most people don'tunderstand and that includes
everybody, by the way, so I'mincluding myself is 98% of all
decisions that we take in a day,every day, all year in life, is
taken by system one.
Jennifer Loehding (00:59):
Welcome to the Starter Girlz podcast, your
ultimate source of inspirationand empowerment.
We're here to help womensucceed in every area of their
lives career, money,relationships, and health and
well-being while celebrating theremarkable journeys of
individuals from all walks oflife who've achieved amazing
things.
Whether you're looking tosupercharge your career, build
(01:21):
financial independence, nurturemeaningful relationships or
enhance your overall well-being,the Starter Girls Podcast is
here to guide you.
Join us as we explore thejourneys of those who dare to
dream big and achieve greatness.
I'm your host, jenniferLoehding, and welcome to this
episode.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Starter Girlz podcast,
(01:45):
wherever you are tuning in today, we are so glad to have you.
I'm your host, jenniferLoehding, and we are ready to
get this thing started.
So I want to open up with this.
What happens when someone takesthe structure and discipline of
the military, combines it witha passion for communication and
leadership and challenges theoutdated norms of the corporate
(02:06):
world?
You get a bold new perspectiveon what leadership should look
like, one that puts people first, and so I am so excited about
this today because I have got tolike spend time with this
amazing lady, like before thisshow and on a previous
conversation.
I love her spirit, her energy.
She's like a fireball.
So this is just going to be, Ithink, an incredible episode.
(02:26):
But before we can get her on tochat with us, we got to do a
quick shout out to our sponsor.
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(03:10):
All right and with that I wantto make one more mention to head
on over to startergirlz.
com.
That's a Z, not an S.
I say it every time.
Why you want to go over there?
For a couple of reasons.
If you have missed an episode,you can find them all on there.
They're all updated every week.
The other thing is you can signup to be in our community and
you can stay in the know as towhat is happening in the
(03:31):
Stargirls world and what we'reputting out, but also there is a
free quiz on there and it is alot of fun.
It is a two-minute quiz.
It will help you figure outwhat your number one success
block block is that may beimpacting your success right now
.
So head on over there, take thefree quiz, get signed up in the
community and catch up on allthe episodes that you missed,
and we're going to bring ourguest on.
(03:51):
So I'm excited.
Let's get this thing rolling.
My guest today, Isabelle Fortin,began her journey in the Royal
Canadian Air Force, where shespent a decade honing
communication and leadershipskills, eventually attending the
prestigious Royal CanadianLeadership School, but it was
her transition into thecorporate world that sparked a
deeper mission.
Dismayed by theevery-person-for-themselves
(04:12):
mentality she encountered,isabel set out to reimagine
leadership from the ground up.
Now, with over 30 years ofcombined military and business
leadership experience, sheempowers human-centered leaders
to tap into the uniqueness ofevery team member.
Using a revolutionarybehavioral and motivation
assessment tool, isabel helpsCEOs and HR leaders improve
(04:33):
communication, culture,retention and profitability.
She's also the dynamic host ofthe Human Leader Livestream and
a powerful speaker andconsultant known for her
customized against the ordinaryapproach.
And so, Isabelle, welcome tothe show.
We are so excited to have youhere today.
Isabelle Fortin (04:50):
Thank you so much, jennifer.
You know what, every time Ihear my bio being read to me, I
go holy how, like when did I getold?
Well, how is it that I have 30years experience?
And I, seriously this thoughtgoes through my mind and I go
yeah, I have over 30 yearsexperience.
Isn't that crazy how that is.
Jennifer Loehding (05:11):
I always joke .
I say this, you know it's funny, because I feel like almost
every episode we do, somebodysays something about the bio and
I tell people they've heardthat my listeners know this is
my favorite part.
I mean, I love all theconversation, but I really love
crafting these because I thinkthose bios are so freaking
powerful.
You know, like we get, like youjust said, we lose sight of
(05:32):
where we've come and where weare.
We get so used to it because wejust wake up and that's who we
are every day.
Right, but it almost puts usback in that perspective of
going, wow, I did all thosethings and look how far I've
come and look at what I'm doingnow and the impact I'm creating,
and so I just think they're funand they're powerful and I
really enjoy crafting them foryou, for all y'all, when you
(05:52):
come on here.
Well, you do a good job at it,thank you, thank you.
Hopefully you feel special.
That's what we want.
I do.
I am special, that's right.
That's right, all right, well,well, let's get this thing
rolling here.
So I want to talk about whatyou are doing, because you're
what your leadership is a bigthing.
Isabelle Fortin (06:07):
We're talking about culture, so tell us a
little bit about this company,what you're doing for your
clients, well, so what I do formy clients is I help the leaders
tap into the unique abilitiesof every single individual on
the team.
And why do I do that?
Well, well, because everybodywins, the company wins, the
bottom line wins, the leaderwins and the employees win.
(06:28):
Because when you know what isthat special thing about you,
what is it that you contributeto the team that nobody else
does, what is it when they tapinto that, your own unique
ability?
Well, as an individual, as anemployee, you feel you know,
seen, heard, valued, because youare all these things.
(06:52):
But it also has what I call thedinner table effect.
When you go to work and youspend, I don't know, 40, 50, 60
hours a week, you know onlocation, or even you know from
your home, on your computer, andyou know what it is that you
contribute that nobody else does.
(07:12):
Well, what does that do to yourday and what does that do to
your mood?
So you show up better at yourdinner table.
You show up better for yourkids, for your spouse, for your
community, for your parents,your siblings, your friends and
everybody.
And it impacts their lives andthe people that they are in, you
(07:33):
know, in conversations or incontact with, so it affects
everybody.
Yeah, that's why I do it.
Ultimately, that's how I do itbecause, for extremely selfish,
I want to use my own uniqueabilities to impact the world so
that I know how I contributedto the world.
(07:54):
If I work with leaders, that isthe way to impact the most
amount of people.
Jennifer Loehding (08:00):
Yeah, yeah, no, I agree with you on that and
I like that you said the partabout like they have the impact
around, with the people that arearound them, because I think a
lot of us I'm sure not everybody, but a lot of us that's kind of
the way we think I know.
That's why I do the work, and Ijust told somebody this the
other day for selfish leading,they're making a difference.
Like our world is smoother,right, like it really is just
(08:28):
smoother.
And I you know, say our worldwould be better today if we had
more leaders in it.
You know what I mean Morepeople that could rise up and be
effective at communication andall those things that we need to
be great leaders.
So, yes, there is the potentialto have.
You know the impact on thosearound us, and it can be simple
things, as you know the impacton those around us.
And it can be simple things asyou know how you're raising your
children, to how you're youknow handling media.
(08:48):
You know and community groupsthat you're involved in, to how
you're dealing with people atwork, your your.
You know your peers and, ifyou're in leadership, your
employees.
Isabelle Fortin (08:57):
Absolutely.
It impacts the world.
That's where we stand.
The most time awake, obviously,in our lives is is at work yeah
, so if you wake up on mondaymorning and and you're, you know
, feeling crappy because youhave five days of this crap to
(09:17):
go through, man, there'ssomething wrong.
Yeah, and I don't think.
I truly don't think we were puton this planet to suffer for
five days and enjoy only two.
Come on, life is better thanthat.
Jennifer Loehding (09:30):
Yeah, no, I agree, you don't.
You want to be living for likeFriday, right, it's always
Monday and Friday.
I always joke and say it'salways Monday and Friday, but
it's not because I'm having baddays and I'm dreading going back
.
It's just because I'm so dangbusy and loving what I'm doing
all the time.
I'm like freaking.
Friday always shows up and thenit turns around and it's Monday
and the week is starting overagain.
I'm like dude, how does it goby so fast?
I'm like it does every week.
(09:51):
I feel like just flies throughfor me and probably you too.
I probably had the whole worldseparate when you're a kid.
Isabelle Fortin (09:56):
You know what?
It's so funny that you say that, jennifer, because this morning
, every morning, I write myjournal and I wrote the date and
I went you know April 7th, andyou know I, I keep on writing
and I I stopped myself for aminute and I said how the, how
the heck, are we the 7th ofApril already?
Yeah, it was April 1styesterday.
(10:19):
How did six days pass?
without me noticing anything butthe older we get, the more this
is, you know, a real thing inour lives.
Time is going by so bloodyquickly, so you know, you truly
have to make the most out of it.
Right, you know, grab the ballsand have fun, dude, because if
(10:44):
you blink too often, your lifeis going to be over.
Jennifer Loehding (10:47):
Yeah, yeah, and you want to be effective in
that time.
Absolutely, leader, right, yeah, absolutely, that's so great.
So when your clients come totalk to you, you said you're
working with leaders, now you dospeaking as well.
So are you going and doing likeworkshops with these guys, or
(11:08):
is it more like a one-on-onetype training?
Isabelle Fortin (11:09):
that you're doing in this leadership
capacity.
It is all of that.
So I'm I'm a keynote speaker.
That's one part of my businessand then, truth be told, that's
the part that I love the most.
Yeah, I imagine that.
Yes, because I was given thegift of lab, but when I work
with a leader, I rarely ithappens once in a while where I
(11:31):
will only work with theindividual, but most of the time
I work with the leader and theteam.
So the first thing that I do iseverybody goes through my
assessment, and it's actuallyfrom Switzerland.
It's called the NOVA assessment.
It's a quote-unquotepersonality test, right?
(11:53):
I cannot tell you how much Ihate that term, because nobody's
personality is there to betested, so I prefer a
psychometric assessment becausein reality, that's exactly what
it is.
So everybody goes through thatand everybody goes through their
own personalized debriefingthat lasts 90 minutes.
(12:16):
It's not a small thing.
The report that I get from theNova platform, from the
assessment, is anywhere between25 to 40 pages long, so it's a
real in-depth way of how is yourbrain connected?
That's basically what theassessment is telling me.
Everybody goes through their ownindividual thing, but then
(12:39):
after that, there's two thingsthat happen.
The first thing is I will doquick or quicker debrief of
every single individual to theleader and with that I provide
what I call a cheat sheet.
So instead of having the leaderthat is all already overwhelmed
(13:00):
, overbooked and doesn't havetime overwhelmed, overbooked and
doesn't have time instead ofhaving them read the 25 to 40
pages report on each of theirteam members, I create a
three-day, a three-pages thingsaying hey, listen, this is how
you better communicate, this iswhat to avoid and this is what
you tap into to get the bestresult for each and every
(13:23):
individual.
So then I have the meeting withjust the leader about 13
minutes.
By then we all come togetherand that part of my business I
call the prenuptial agreement.
I can tell you why Because thisis life.
You're going to have a bad day,your colleague is going to have
(13:44):
a bad day.
Your colleague is going to havea bad day, your boss is going
to have a bad day.
People are dealing with stuffyou know nothing about, and you
know nothing about them becauseit's none of your business.
And that's okay, because notevery part of ourselves belongs
to our coworkers.
So conflict is going to arise,period, that is, if you're
(14:06):
dealing with more than one human, there's going to be potential
for conflict.
So what I do is I have theentire team come together and we
come up with the strategy ofhow we're going to deal with one
another with empathy, withkindness, with patience, with
empathy, with kindness, withpatience, and with the profound
(14:30):
understanding that every memberof the team is just a human
doing their damn best at everygiven moment, and when you come
up with a strategy that worksfor them.
So for me, there's nocookie-cutter workshop that I
take from one team apply to theother team and every single
thing that I do with a companyor with a team is customized to
(14:55):
that particular team, becausenot everybody works the same and
therefore, no, not every.
Every team.
Yeah, so that's basically whatI do, and after that it's
interesting Keeps on wanting towork with me on an individual
level.
Then I do, because then I can,you know, say how.
(15:17):
How do you apply that on yourdaily life?
Yeah, because you know what.
I say that all the time.
Jennifer, a psychometricassessment is like a treadmill.
Threadmills are extremelyefficient If you put them in the
basement and all it does iscollect dust.
(15:38):
You're not going to be silly Ifyou put it in front of your
television, and every time youwant to watch the TV, you have
to be walking on the treadmill.
Holy goodness, gracious, you'regoing to get a lot of results.
Same thing applies toeverything in your life, but
same thing applies forpsychometrics.
Jennifer Loehding (15:58):
Yeah, no, it makes sense and well and
interesting, because I justrecently developed a four-step
system that I use to work withmy clients and that is a piece
of what I do in there too.
It's not probably as in-depthas yours and I love this and
it's making me think.
Right now I need to figure outmy own, some kind of assessment
that I want to do for that, butit's not as prevalent as what
(16:21):
I'm doing in my particularsituation.
But that is a big thing,because my point to this is that
it's important to know yourstrengths and weaknesses because
you can thrive better.
It's not that we want to focuson the weaknesses or be like
over here.
It's just that I think it's allpart of self-awareness when
we're talking aboutself-awareness, right, and it's
really tying into emotionalintelligence, equitability,
(16:43):
whatever the word EQ, whateveryou want to call it right
Emotional coach, whatever it'sknowing, whatever you want to
call it right Emotional coach,whatever it's knowing where
you're going to thrive right,because if you can understand
how you work and operate fromthe employee perspective,
they're going to, like you said,be heard, feel, seen, all of
those things because they'regoing to be in an environment
where now they're thriving rightand for the employer, they're
(17:04):
going to have more efficiencybecause now they're putting
people in the right places andthey know how to work with them
and what to do with them.
And like you know, like it'salmost like you know, I was just
talking to somebody yesterday,funny enough, and she was she's
a French teacher.
Funny enough and I took French.
It's always fun.
We met somebody, connected us.
We went to a cute little Frenchrestaurant here in town and we
were talking about.
She was telling me how shefeels sometimes she's a people
(17:25):
person and maybe not as much onthe logic side, and I said you
know, sometimes we really needwe need more people over logic.
We thrive on being practicaland logical, but when you're
dealing with humans, we need tobring a little more people into
this.
And I think that by doing that,what you're talking about is
(17:46):
you're really kind of doing thatbecause you're saying, yes, I
may want to do this because thislooks right for my systems, and
this person took a, took a, gota degree in this particular
place and we put them there, butthey're not thriving there.
That's not where they are doingtheir best.
And how many people do we knowgo get degrees right and they
realize midstream they don'teven like what they're doing
(18:06):
right Because it's not inalignment with what they see
themselves doing, in alignmentwith what they're good at right.
Like I studied accounting andthen I realized in the middle of
that I was like, okay, I'm goodat math, but I just can't sit
behind a desk and do numbers allday.
I need to be in front of people, talking and engaging, and I
might just put me you know, youmight.
(18:27):
Maybe you just put me inWalmart as a greeter and I might
be happy because I just need togreet people.
I'm joking about that, but I'ma person that needs to be like
talking to people and engagingand not sitting behind the desk.
And so I think there'sdefinitely a need for
understanding, as in from anemployer perspective, how your
people thrive, so that you canget them in the right places and
(18:50):
they can feel heard and seenand they're going to be happier.
Isabelle Fortin (18:54):
And you know what I want to bounce off
something you said if you, if I,if I may, you know, we all
think ourselves for ourselves,we'll think, you know and you
know.
But I'm a rational being andI'm logical and we all think
that we're all these things.
Truth be told is, when you takea decision, or your initial
(19:14):
reaction to something, in thebrain, there's two systems
system one and system two.
System one is emotional.
It's where your intuition lies,it's where all the data that
comes in either way, you know,through your ears, through your
eyes, through your senses, isprocessed, and this is when most
(19:36):
of your decisions are taken.
That's system one.
System two is you know, itanalyzes, it solves very complex
problems.
It's very, actually, reallytruly logical and cerebral.
So that's system two.
Well, what most people don'tunderstand and that includes
(19:59):
everybody, by the way, so I'mincluding myself is 98% of all
decisions that we take in a day,every day, all year, in life,
life, is taken by system one,which means it is emotional, it
is irrational, it is full ofcognitive biases.
(20:20):
And, by the way, guys,cognitive biases, you have some
period right, don't think youdon't have any, you do.
And everybody has Right andeverybody does, I should say,
and it's not laziness, it'sshortcut that your brain created
out of necessity, because yourbrain takes 20% of all of the
(20:43):
energy of your entire body, eventhough it weighs about two
pounds, two and a half pounds.
So that's why it created biases.
So we all have some.
So if you truly, truly want toappeal to the logic of somebody,
so have access to system two.
You have to acknowledge systemone.
(21:04):
But we don't, because if I'm ina conflict with you, I want you
to do what I want.
That's right.
Right, ultimately, and you wantme to do what you want, right?
If both of us knock heads, Imean we get along.
But if both of us knock headsfrom system one to system one
and system one to system one allof the time, it like taking a
(21:27):
rock, hitting your head on itand keep on hitting your head,
because that's all you'regetting.
So, in order to get to System 2and actually have a
quote-unquote, intelligentconversation, you have to
acknowledge the other person'semotion.
You have to acknowledge theother person's emotion.
That's where empathy andadaptability and all of the EQ
(21:51):
comes into play.
So it's so funny because I had aspat with my boyfriend
yesterday and, truth be told, weare in a recent relationship
for our age I'm 53, he's 59.
We've been together a year, soI mean it's not that long we
don't't live together and thankgoodness for that.
(22:12):
We're not gonna um.
So yeah, no, I'm not billed forcohabitation, I really am.
I love it.
You're like no, we're just notdoing that exactly and and he's
not built for it either.
So, thank goodness we found oneanother.
But anyway, back to the originalstory, we're having a spat
yesterday and my system one isscreaming at me W-T-F, right.
(22:44):
So instead of saying, for thelove of God, can you tell me why
you did it this way?
I caught myself, and that's thetruth.
Is that yeah, so yeah.
And instead of saying wtf, Iwent honey, pause.
(23:04):
Can you please help meunderstand this particular
behavior of yours, because it'striggering stuff inside me and I
would like to understand youbetter so we can come together
and this behavior not affect methe way it's affecting me.
You think we got mad at oneanother.
Jennifer Loehding (23:27):
No, we sat down and we talked not affect me
the way it's affecting me.
You think we got mad at oneanother.
No, it was it came.
Isabelle Fortin (23:31):
Yeah, we sat down and we talked.
We talked with an open heart andan open mind and when that was
over, nobody was mad and we cameto an understanding and an
agreement that when he does thatbecause more than likely it's a
behavior Right, more thanlikely it's a behavior right,
more than likely it's going toarise again before it's
corrected right and I know ithas nothing to do with me now,
(23:56):
so I'm not going to get mad atit and I'm just going to say,
you know, can it's, maybe, it'smaybe not do that, and then, and
then he can, he can autocorrect if, if I catch him, or
if he catches himself, yeah,that's it right, is that easy?
(24:18):
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, not easy.
No, it's just that I knew thatif I got mad and rose some hell
because that's my style, then Iwould not get what I want, right
.
So even if we take for grantedand it isn't true, I know it
(24:40):
isn't true Even if we took forgranted that I did that for
selfish reasons.
So what Right?
Right, it's getting better,it's better.
It's.
Who is his, by the way?
yeah, no conflict don't get atemper on me, let me tell you,
you know, I can probably figurethat out, I'm hot-blooded.
(25:02):
But hot-blooded is not gonnawork with him, right, right.
Jennifer Loehding (25:07):
So if I want him in my life, I have to adjust
that too so it's just, it justbecomes better right, yeah, no,
and and I want to I want tocommend you on something very
back in the beginning when youwere talking about the systems,
because I think this is, this isso good because I'm aware of
all that, but I've never hadanybody quite put it in that
(25:28):
perspective and I think it'sreally good from a practical
standpoint because you paintedthat as logical and practical
System one, system two.
You got to go through systemone to get to system two and I
would agree with you on everypiece of that.
I've just never heard anybodyquite put it in that way.
So I commend you on that,because somebody listening to
this may have said you know thesame thing, I've heard that but
(25:50):
never quite thought of it thatway.
Or maybe somebody thatespecially men, because they
don't get a lot of times thislogic and practical, they just
know logic, right.
And it's funny because I feellike I just had this
conversation with my husbandyesterday too I think it was, or
maybe it was Saturday morningabout this.
We were talking about thepeople over logic that you can't
always just say the things youwant to say, because if you're
(26:11):
doing this in the middle of aconversation, the other person
may not feel seen or heard, andnow you have, basically, they're
gonna feel gaslighted, and now,whatever you have to say, they
don't care about at this point,because they've already felt
unseen and unheard.
Okay, so now they're shuttingyou down, and so all of this
we're talking about here is soimportant.
I feel like we could have awhole conversation on
(26:31):
communication, role play,communication for people, right,
because it is so huge andpeople don't get it.
And when you start to learnthese things like you were
talking about the pausing andall of that, like I talk you
know I do that too I alwaysthink about like, okay, if I say
this, is this what we want tobe saying right now, is this
going to be effective?
Is it going to cause a biggerproblem if we do this?
I mean, these are things thatyou have to learn to do.
(26:53):
We don't just wake up and weknow how to do these behaviors
right.
I didn't learn this skill.
I had to work on trainingmyself, and I say that with a
little disclaimer that I'm alsohuman, so I'm not perfect, and
I'm sure you're not either.
We do mess up sometimes, right,but we try to do it and I think
of it sort of like doing CPR,like if you train to do CPR and
(27:13):
you had to use it.
You may not be a hundredpercent, know everything, but
you're going to do something,and something's better than
nothing.
And that's how I feel aboutthis kind of stuff.
When we're talking aboutleadership is that the more you
continue to learn, yes, you'regoing to mess up.
You're not going to be 100%perfect all the time, but you're
going to keep getting bettereach time that you work through
these things, and then you justbecome more effective at
(27:36):
communication and working withyes, personal, intimate
relationships, but alsocolleagues, employees, all those
things on the other side, otherfamily members, all of it it
applies everywhere.
Isabelle Fortin (27:48):
Yes, applies everywhere, because the way that
you get your boss to give you araise, the way that you
negotiate with your husband oryour wife or your life partner
whatever you want to call thatperson on where to go on
vacation, whether you'renegotiating with a four-year-old
so that they eat their broccoli, it's the same, it's the same
sort of thing it is.
(28:09):
And we're coming, you knowespecially.
I mean, we're not in our 30s.
I have 35 years experience, soobviously I'm not in my 30s
anymore, and the older that Iget, and the more not only am I
able and willing I should saywilling to show that I am
(28:32):
imperfect, but I am embracingthat imperfection.
Yeah, because you know whatPerfect would be boring as hell,
I agree.
So you know what?
Sometimes I mess up my, youknow, I put one foot in my mouth
and there's still room, so Iput the other foot and it's just
yeah, and it's and it's messyand it's.
(28:54):
And thank God for that.
Yeah, thank God, it's so funny.
I read a book a long, long, longtime ago and it was about
exactly that.
He says okay so, says okay.
So the the first chapter startswith like that okay, so imagine
you're going on vacation to anice, you know, exotic resort
(29:15):
and it's beautiful and it's, youknow, let's say, 85 degrees,
like warm, but not too warm, andit's not humid, it's by the sea
and you've got a little breeze,you're feeling, feeling happy.
It's like, oh, perfect weather,and you get a week of that.
It's like, oh, perfect weather,and you get three weeks of that
.
It's like, oh yeah, it's nice.
(29:37):
And you get six weeks of thatand you go when the hell is it
going to rain?
Right, right, because you needthe rain.
The rain washes everything, andso I feel that that's the
beauty of life.
Sometimes we fight with ourspouses or we fight with our
kids, or we fight with ourfriends, and it clears the path.
(30:04):
It clears the path for bettercommunication and sometimes it
just clears the path, becausesometimes you're going to speak
your truth and somebody is goingto be offended by it and
they're going to walk out ofyour life, and if they walk out,
that's okay.
Jennifer Loehding (30:18):
Let them overarching message here is
really just about effectiveleadership and communication.
So I love all of this.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour show, what you got going on
with that, so people know alittle bit about it.
Isabelle Fortin (30:34):
Oh, I haven't had an episode in a long time,
to be honest with you, because Igot overwhelmed with stuff to
do and clients.
Jennifer Loehding (30:42):
You're just too busy.
You know, changing lives, it'sokay, it happens.
Isabelle Fortin (30:46):
Yeah, but actually, you know, changing
lives it's okay, it happens,yeah, but actually, you know,
thank you for the questionbecause it's um, putting putting
back in my mind.
Um, it was truly about meetingleaders and finally, it was
short, like half an hour, and itwas about knowing, okay, so
what'd you learn?
How'd you learn it?
And if you could teach yourselfsomething about, you know,
(31:08):
teach your younger selfsomething about leadership, what
would it be like to say?
And you know what, jennifer, itall boils down to the same
thing.
It all boils down to the samething.
It's listening and being thereand truly tapping into the
(31:31):
individual.
Yeah, because that's how youget the most out of it.
And yeah, you know what humanbeings we need to be seen, heard
and valued.
But honestly, the level of ourneeds is not you just say thank
(31:52):
you, you just can profoundlymean it and that's it, that's
the energy behind it.
And you just tell someone hey,by the way, I haven't even a
colleague.
Hey, I haven't told you in awhile, but you know what you did
in this particular thing.
Oh, goodness gracious, if itwasn't for you, we would have.
You know, it would have beenmuch, much, much harder or it
(32:16):
would have taken longer if itwasn't for your contribution,
and they will ride on that wavefor weeks.
Yeah, and they'll be willing tocrawl through broken glass Not
that they should.
Jennifer Loehding (32:31):
Yeah, yeah, so no, and I'm glad that I asked
you that, so maybe you'll bringit back now that I asked you
this.
You know it's funny.
I have another another I wasdoing two shows for a while, so
I have another one out there too.
That's kind of.
It's got so many great storieson it that I've just left it
accessible because I don't wantto take it down now, because I
know people.
You know the stories are greatand people want to listen to
(32:52):
them, so, but no, I think it'sgreat and that's one of the
things I love about this show isthe stories is talking to
people about you know, whatthey've done and what they've
learned in that process, and Ifeel like the truths are all
universal.
People say a lot of the samethings.
They just take a spin on them alittle bit differently, and I
think that's what's beautiful isthat we all can walk into this
(33:13):
from different places and havethese journeys that are a little
bit they're unique, but there'sa lot of universal truths in
them that shine through, youknow, and so I think this one
we're talking today has reallybeen a lot about, you know,
embracing uniqueness and theindividual.
Obviously, you are a uniqueindividual and I'm a unique
individual and I'm probablyyou're probably thinking like I
am, like I'm not going to bestrapped in a box.
(33:33):
I don't want anybody to tell mewhat I'm supposed to be doing
and what I'm not, because I'mprobably not going to go along
with that.
It has to be my thing.
My journey, my path, my podcast,my work, all of it.
It has to be my thing.
You know, and you know there'sI think there's great things in
learning stubbornness.
You know it can be a bad thingsometimes, but it has certainly
(33:54):
served me well in many timesover my years.
So I think you know embracingour uniqueness is important here
, and I think you're givingpeople permission to do that and
you're showing your leadersthat they too don't have to be
cookie cutter, mold type people.
They can be different and theycan embrace their people and
show them a culture where theytoo can be unique individuals,
(34:17):
you know.
Isabelle Fortin (34:18):
And you know what?
It's so funny?
Because when everybody talks tome about fitting in a box, I go
I'm 5'10", 175 pounds.
I don't fit in the damn box,you don't fit in it.
No, I don't, I don't fit.
That's great.
No, I don't, I don't fit and Inever.
You know, and you know what,jennifer, you and I both, even
though we don't come from thesame place, we're both lucky
(34:42):
enough to be born in a freecountry.
I live in a country where Ihave freedom of speech, freedom
of religion, freedom to lovewhomever I want, and nobody's
going to make me shut up.
Worst case scenario I'll lookstupid and I'm okay with that.
Jennifer Loehding (34:59):
Yeah, yeah.
So sometimes you gotta lookstupid, you know.
I mean, when we think about it,a lot of people that have done
great things have looked stupidin the process of, you know, in
face of great doing great things.
So there's nothing wrong withthat.
I think that comes with part ofyou know.
Part of the risk that you takeis, you know, being whatever it
is you're pursuing, or whetherit's a passion project, or being
(35:20):
a voice to something, whateverthat is, and so I think you're
doing a great thing by givingpeople that freedom to do that.
There's nothing wrong with that, so it's all good.
So I imagine that somebodylistening.
You know it's funny.
I never know where theseepisodes are going to go.
And it's so funny because wespent a lot of time today
talking about something that'sreally important and that's
great, because I think peopleneed to hear these things about
(35:40):
communication on it, becauseit's not just a one thing Like
you just need to navigate it inthe home, you need to navigate
it everywhere.
Or let's say, just say thisbottom line You're not going to
get what you want.
You're not going to get what youwant If you don't learn to
communicate.
You're going to be miserable.
You're going to be a miserableperson.
You got to learn to communicate, so this is really good and
it's good for all.
It doesn't matter how old youare.
You've got to learn tocommunicate Right.
And so I think this is soimportant topic.
(36:01):
But I say that because I neverknow where these episodes are
going to lead to, and that'swhat I think is so beautiful
about these conversations isthey're unique and they're just,
however we up and flow thisthing.
So I know somebody listening tothis today is going to be like
okay, where do I find thisisabel girl?
I like her personality, I needto catch up with her, follow her
(36:21):
, check her workout, whatever.
Where do you want us to sendthem?
Isabelle Fortin (36:25):
and my website is againsttheordinaryorg,
because I am against theordinary period, but against the
ordinary leadership as well.
Uh, and you can find me on, uh,linkedin.
If you're listening to theaudio, it's Isabel Fortin, the
one with the purple hair,because there's a bunch of us I
think there's 150 of us, so findthe one with the purple hair
(36:49):
and uh, you know, uh, uh, I wasgoing to say linkedin.
I just said that youtube andall these things, it's isn't
important, it's not pretty easyit's awesome and so I'm gonna.
Jennifer Loehding (37:03):
I'm gonna say this I would imagine that as a
child you were not like just thethe easy going along with
everything kind of child right,like you, always kind of a
little bit, a little bit of afighter I really wasn't I, I
will tell you that because I wasmaybe.
Isabelle Fortin (37:18):
I was in the military anymore, but I was
working for a corporation andduring a meeting one of the uh
c-suite shushed me in a meetingand I looked at him and I was
maybe I must have been early 30s.
And I looked at him and I wasmaybe I must've been early
thirties.
And I looked at him dead in theeyes.
I said my dad couldn't make meshut up when I was eight.
(37:40):
What chance do you think youstand today?
Nobody makes me shut up.
Worst case scenario disagreewith what I'm saying, but I get
to speak.
And no, no, no, no, I'm yeah.
I might've been a sad kid,though I was a very, very sad
child.
So yeah you, nobody makes meshut up, I'm laughing.
Jennifer Loehding (38:04):
I didn't mean to interrupt you.
I'm just thinking if you and Ihad been friends cause we're
about the same age If you and Ihad been friends when we were
little, we would have been introuble.
I think we would have been introuble because I was telling
somebody the other day, like my,I was the kid and I'm going to
end this, but I want to tellthis story really good, but it's
because it's funny and you'regoing to get it.
I was the kid that my mom wouldsay to me when I was little.
(38:32):
She would say go, stand in thecorner forever because I was not
going to give in to theargument that I was arguing
about.
I was going to stay there untilI got released and she'd
finally just be like go to yourroom, I'm tired of looking at
you.
I have a joke now as an adult,like if I'm onto something I'm
like and most of the time I'mjoking about this but I'll say
(38:53):
you're not going to win thisargument, I can assure you I can
stand in a corner for a verylong time.
Isabelle Fortin (39:01):
Yeah, I was.
I had the same, the same reason, the same reasoning.
But I do the opposite is, I doapologize, even if I didn't mean
it, because you wanted to getout.
Yeah, I want to get out, so Iwas.
I didn if I didn't mean itbecause you wanted to get out.
Jennifer Loehding (39:13):
Yeah, you wanted to get out.
No, you were smarter than I was.
I didn't care.
Yeah, you were smarter.
I was like I'm not giving in,I'm not telling you, I'm sorry,
because I don't think I'm wrong.
So I'm just not giving in.
You're just going to leave mein this corner forever, right?
Isabelle Fortin (39:29):
And I'm telling to myself well, you know, you
can't control where I amphysically, but you can't
control what I think.
So I'm going to tell you whatyou don't want to hear, and then
I'll be over with.
Jennifer Loehding (39:40):
Yeah, no, I appreciate that, isabel, you are
.
You're an amazing person.
I love your boldness and youruniqueness and your purple in
your hair and all of that.
It's all good stuff, and weneed bold people in the world.
The world would be very dull ifwe did not have unique and bold
in the world.
We need it Right.
So this has been so awesome.
I want to thank you for thetalk and giving us your wisdom,
and I really you know it's Ievery episode.
(40:01):
I remember bits and pieces andI really liked the system thing
you talked about today, becauseyou just made it in a, in a
fashion where somebody maybe onthe that wants to claim they're
on the logical, practical sidemight be able to grab onto that
and understand that and run awaywith it the next time they go
to communicate.
So thank you for all of that.
It's been awesome.
Thank you for having me.
Isabelle Fortin (40:19):
It's been a great conversation, as usual,
awesome.
Jennifer Loehding (40:23):
All right, and, of course, to our audience.
We love you, appreciate you.
Thank you for tuning into thisepisode.
We hope you found it bothinspiring and informative.
You found it both inspiring andinformative and if you did, do
all the things, share it, likeit, comment, do all the things
so we can keep sharing all thefabulous content with you guys.
And I want to leave you withwhat I always say at the end of
every episode In order to livethe extraordinary, you must
(40:43):
start, and every start beginswith a decision.
You guys, take care, be safe,be kind to one another and we
will see you next time.
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