November 3, 2024 • 56 mins
Imagine feeling unfulfilled while constantly catering to others' needs—sound familiar? Join us as we welcome mindset coach Becky Upchurch, who shares her incredible journey from academia to coaching, emphasizing the transformative power of teaching women to say no without guilt. Becky uncovers societal pressures that push women toward people-pleasing behaviors and the stress that results. Through her insights, we delve into the necessity of breaking free from ingrained patterns and creating lives that women genuinely love. As a mother raising strong, independent kids, I reflect on the importance of mindful communication in fostering their growth and independence.
Ever wondered why the brain resists change and how you can rewire it? We explore the science behind these concepts with references to Dr. Joe Dispenza's work and influential resources like "The Secret." Our conversation moves into the realm of personal growth and self-discovery, highlighting the discomfort and fear that often accompany significant changes. By sharing personal milestones and pivotal moments, we examine how to prioritize personal happiness and evaluate relationships to align with our evolving paths. The transition is not always easy, but as we discuss, it's essential for true fulfillment.
We also tackle the toxic mentality prevalent in today's work culture and the competitive environment among women. Reflecting on personal experiences, we stress the importance of setting professional boundaries to maintain a healthy work-life balance. This episode is a heartfelt exploration of authenticity, vulnerability, and community support. Whether sharing the real-life struggles of being stood up on a date or the emotional toll of trying to control everything, our stories aim to connect, inspire, and uplift women facing similar challenges. Tune in to discover how saying no can be a powerful step toward a more balanced and fulfilling life.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jenny Benitez (00:02):
Hi everybody, welcome to Still Roses podcast.
This podcast was created forwomen, by women, to elevate
women's voices.
I am very excited to introduceyou to our guest today, becky
Upchurch.
Becky is a mindset coach whospecializes in helping people
create lives they love by sayingno to the things they don't,
without fear or guilt, creatingspace to pursue their goals and
(00:24):
do more of what lights them up.
Becky, you already know howexcited I am to have you here.
Welcome to the show.
I think what you're about to,the wisdom that you're about to
impart on us, I think is goingto be pretty significant for a
lot of women out there.
So welcome to the show.
Becky Upchurch (00:42):
Thank you.
I am super excited to be here.
This is a topic that I am verypassionate about and I saw when
I was kind of getting to knowwho you were and learning about
your work just your work inelevating women's voices and I
think about that in terms ofhaving women on your show, but
also opening the door for womento use their voices, which, to
(01:04):
me, this is kind of what thisspeaks to, because many of us
were taught to use our voices tosay yes as we smile, and I
think there's a lot of otherways that we can use our voices,
so hopefully we can talk aboutthat today.
Jenny Benitez (01:17):
Yes, and I have to tell you I'm especially
interested in this line herethat says creating lives, a life
that you love, by saying no tothings, because that in itself
we can unpack for like three orfour hours.
But, becky, before you go intoit, because I have a lot for you
to talk about here, how did you, how did you get your start
(01:38):
here?
Like what?
What inspired you to go intocoaching?
How did you get your startthere?
Becky Upchurch (01:43):
So, I actually came to coaching through the
world of academia.
I was a classroom teacher and Ileft the classroom to become an
instructional coach and Iactually love instructional
coaching and that was where Idid my first coach training.
And then I have the realizationof, you know, coaching is great
in the world of education, butthere is so much applicability
(02:05):
in life and other spheres andthat's what led me to enrolling
in an ICF accredited coachtraining program and starting my
company and it's been quite aninteresting journey.
And then, most recently, is whatI had, this epiphany actually
last year I can't remember if Iwas on a coaching call,
listening to one of my coachescoach or if I was watching
something she did but I just hadthis moment where I realized
(02:28):
that, you know, I'd been focusedon mindset for so long and it
was kind of more general mindsetstuff, because there's so many
different areas of mindset thatI'm passionate about and so many
things I love.
And then I just had thisrealization that, oh, something
that a lot of women reallystruggle with is saying no and
not feeling like crap about it,and that's something that I am
(02:49):
super good at.
So I was like, oh, maybe Ishould focus a little bit more
on that, because, you know, ifwe really want to make change in
the world, I feel like we haveto dig into some of these places
that aren't really talked abouta lot.
Jenny Benitez (03:02):
I completely agree.
I think that for far too long,women's issues and things that
we were experiencing and Ialways like to caveat this with
like I'm not saying poo poo onmen I love my husband, love men
in general but like women gothrough a certain set of
unfortunate experiences and itputs us on almost like, almost
(03:27):
like a constant level ofcortisol in some instances, like
a constant strain on us andsaying no is probably one of the
hardest things for us to do.
I only only after turning like Ithink I was like 37 or 38.
Only then did I really start tolike.
(03:48):
That was like the second time Ihad the aha moment of like I
have to set boundaries.
The first time I realized I hadto set boundaries and I needed
to do things for myself, I was25.
And then it almost like resetitself again.
And I've heard from other womentoo.
A big barrier is wanting to bepeople pleasing yes and trying
(04:10):
to and, like what you said, likeyou're trying to mold yourself
into what everyone around you islooking for, but then you're
not really living your life.
Becky Upchurch (04:17):
Right, and I think that a big part of that
comes into play with how we'reraised.
And you talked about kind ofthat distinction between men and
women, and I say the same thingto people I love men, men are
wonderful.
I focus my coachingspecifically on women, but I
didn't start out that way.
But I really started thinkingabout the fact that women do
have a particular.
You know, obviously not everywoman there's always exceptions
(04:40):
but as a whole, I find thatwomen have a particular set of
challenges that seem to besymptomatic across our gender
and I think a lot of it isrelated to how we are socialized
and some of the aspects of ourculture and what we're taught
about what it means to be a goodwoman, a good wife, a good
mother, a good sister, daughter,friend, whatever it may be, and
(05:03):
how much of that is ingrainedin us from such a young age and
we don't even realize it's thereand yet it drives so much of
our behavior.
Jenny Benitez (05:13):
So I I reflect on this quite a bit because I have
two daughters, I have twingirls and I have a little boy.
So I have this mix in front ofme that I'm like I want everyone
to be strong, articulate,independent young people.
And the girls are seven andI've always been very cautious
about phrasing and how I'm likecorrecting them or how I'm
(05:37):
communicating to them across allthree kids.
But with the girls inparticular, they were really
little and they might not everremember this, but somewhere in
their subliminal, you know, inthe back of their mind it might
be there, but I forget.
One of the twins was doingsomething and it was very
aggressive and I almost said, ohmy gosh, you don't have to be
(05:59):
so aggressive, stop that.
And then I stopped myself andwas like let's try to calm
ourselves down.
Like she was doing something,something in particular that I
was like I don't want to saydon't be aggressive, because I'm
like I kind of want you to beaggressive.
So I'm going to change thatphrase and so I'm just very,
very cautious because I do thinklike as a you know, a
theoretical.
(06:20):
All of us, as you said, aresocialized from young, very
young.
So the images that we see on TV, in movies, the books that
we're being exposed to, howwe're perceived, how women are
perceived in media all of thatcombined on a daily basis, we're
being assaulted, basically,with this image of like this is
what you're supposed to do andthen, if you don't do this, like
(06:42):
you're, you're not worthy ofmarriage or you're not.
You can't be a mom and be likethis at the same time.
For for young women listeningto this and trying to work out
in their head like oh well, Isay no to things like what would
be, what would be somethingthat you would say to someone
(07:03):
that's like how would I know ifI'm, if I have a problem saying
no, like some people don'trealize it, that they don't,
that they have an issue with it.
What would be like a tip?
Becky Upchurch (07:13):
So I think one of the first things that I would
look for is are you somebodywho finds yourself thinking I
never can find the time to getto my things.
I never can find the time to dothe things I really want to do?
There's this thing I've wantedto try for a month and I can't
(07:33):
seem to fit it into my schedule,Because that could often be a
little, you know, a little flagwaving saying hey, what's all
the stuff that's in yourcalendar if it's not the stuff
that you want to do?
And then, if you start lookingat it and you realize, and then
another one is start reallytuning into how you're feeling
in situations.
So you might be somebody whodoesn't think you have, you know
(07:57):
, a problem being a peoplepleaser, but if you find that
you're even going to a socialevent and you're sitting there
thinking I'm so tired, I wish Iwas home on my couch, Okay, Well
, why aren't you home on yourcouch?
Is it because you showed up,because you felt you had to was
there that?
Oh, I'm going to miss out,Someone's going to be upset with
me.
So sometimes it's really subtlethings that we don't necessarily
(08:20):
think to look for but, reallytuning to how do I feel in
different situations, because Iam a firm believer that our body
tells us everything we need toknow if we learn to listen to it
.
Jenny Benitez (08:33):
I totally agree.
I totally agree.
At about 24, 25 was when Istarted to really pay attention
to, like, what am I feeling?
Do I really want to do this oram I just doing this because I
feel obligated?
Because what I started tonotice and I'm not even really
(08:55):
sure how I ended up down thispath, but but I had started this
self discovery phase of my lifeand I I realized that, like a
lot of situations that I was in,I wasn't happy with it.
Everyone around me was happyand I'm jumping through hoops
like supporting everybody aroundme, but me myself I was like
I'm not really happy, and thiswas prior to meeting my husband
(09:17):
and I had.
Really, at the time I was like Ireally want to meet someone,
I'd like to have a partner, likeI want to eventually get
married and have kids, to meetsomeone I'd like to have a
partner, like I want toeventually get married and have
kids, and it just wasn'thappening.
And then that's when I thinkthe moment came where I was like
, well, I'm spending all my timedoing everything that everyone
else wants me to do, like I'mprobably not going to meet
someone, like decorating forsomeone else's child's birthday
(09:41):
party, like that's probably not,and I think that might've been
like the catalyst there, becausethen I actually had started to
focus really in on me and likewhat I wanted.
So when I met my husband, itbecame like this, almost like
test for me, and I was like letme just use these tools that
I've learned.
At the time I was reading thebook the Secret.
(10:02):
It had just come out, it hadexploded and I took it and I was
like I'm going to try this,like I think this is a really
good one for me.
So I started seeing my husbandand as soon as I started to like
prioritize things that made mehappy, I noticed that the folks
that had been in my like quoteunquote inner circle around me
(10:23):
started to get really angry andstarted to attack consistently,
like on a regular basis, beinglike this isn't you, you know,
this isn't who you are, this isnot you know, this is not the
person we know.
Like you're losing yourself.
And the more they press, themore that I turned internally
(10:44):
and really thought about that.
I'm like well, how do I feelright now?
Like do I have that pit in mystomach that I used to have and
I would be, you know, obligatedto go do something, or am I okay
?
And every time I came back andI was like, no, I'm happy.
So if they're not happy for me,then they're probably not meant
to be in alignment with my pathmoving forward, like that's
(11:07):
where.
That's actually how I startedto look at it.
Becky Upchurch (11:20):
I'm going to say no to things and I'm going to
lose my friends, and people aregoing to be mad at me.
And there's a few differentways to look at this, and I
think you know one of them isthat idea of well, if they are
people I lose as a result, maybethey're not the right people
for this stage of my life, thisphase, this path that I'm taking
.
But it can also be a situationwhere there may just be some
(11:40):
growing pains.
Yeah, and what I mean by thatis change is really hard, just
like, fundamentally for humanbeings, change is not an easy
thing.
It feels very challenging.
You know, one of the things thatI find so interesting is
conversations around evenpositive change.
Feeling is so uncomfortablebecause we like status quo, our
(12:01):
brains are designed for comfort,not growth, and so it can be
really uncomfortable for us tochange.
And it can also be reallyuncomfortable for other people
when we change, because, athey're dealing with the change
factor and, b they're dealingwith something else that I think
most humans hate, which is lackof control.
Yes, so you put those twothings together and it's like,
(12:25):
oh, I'm trying to navigate thetwo most uncomfortable feelings
in the world, and there's thisperson in front of me who I
think I know really well, andsuddenly I'm questioning if I
know them as well as I thought,because they're acting
differently and I don't knowwhat to do.
And unfortunately, in a lot ofsituations, that discomfort
comes across as they're mad atus, they are upset we have done
(12:49):
something wrong, when in realityit's just they may need help
navigating this journey as well,and so I feel like the right
people will be able to navigatethat discomfort with you and
come out the other side, and Iam a believer that those who
don't or can't, it's worth maybeevaluating if they still belong
(13:12):
in your life, what role theyneed to play.
Jenny Benitez (13:15):
That was exactly my experience, and so anyone
who's listening to this, yes, itfeels painful in the moment and
it even feels off to use insome instances because, as Becky
had said, our brain, our brains, are not wired for change like
we're not.
We are actually not set up forthat.
I read a book by Dr JoeDispenza where he talks through
(13:41):
like the wiring in your brainand I had to read this section
of the book like four timesbecause it took a minute.
Becky Upchurch (13:48):
Brain science is tough, I will tell you.
Jenny Benitez (13:52):
I try to like pride myself on being like smart
and being able to intelligenceand everything, and this is like
.
It took me a minute.
It took me a while, but I readthis portion of his book where
he talks through like thatuncomfortable feeling that
you're having is actually yourbrain rewiring itself.
So, like on any given day orany given year, you're doing the
same things over and over againand your body is wired to react
(14:13):
emotionally the same exact wayeach time.
And this is our comfort level.
We're used to going through thesame thing over and over again
status quo, exactly what yousaid.
If you decide to changesomething in your status quo,
what you said, if you decide tochange something in your status
quo, your brain.
It's almost like.
Think about train tracks andyou have now tried to make a
change.
So you've shifted the track andcreated a new set of tracks,
(14:35):
and so your brain, littleconductor, is like why am I
going down this path?
I've only made a right here,why is there now a fork in the
road?
And so your brain has to adjustto this new path.
What I've recently experiencedin the past year after gaining
this knowledge is that each timeI was on the precipice of good
(14:56):
change, or something that wasreally pushing me towards growth
is when I was the mostuncomfortable and when I was the
most scared, to be perfectlyhonest.
But if you can just push pastthat point, then the rewards are
many, and I'm not saying likeoh, it's like prizes, but like
your whole, your life trajectorycan change for the better
(15:18):
because you're pushing yourselfinto alignment with what you're
actually supposed to be, inalignment with.
Becky Upchurch (15:23):
Right, and I love that you bring that up.
I actually had a conversationyears ago with a friend of mine.
I refer to her as my wisecounsel.
She is the person that I go towhen I need perspective and
wisdom, and we were having aconversation once that I don't
even remember what it was about,but somehow the topic of
discomfort came up and I said,well, that's where all the good
(15:44):
stuff happens.
And she kind of had that youknow, aha moment of like, oh
yeah, like hadn't really thoughtabout it that way, but you know
it, at the end of the day,growth is not always a linear
process and it certainly doesn'tfeel easy.
But I think that's part of whyit's so rewarding, because it's
like you said it's, the prize onthe other side is being able to
(16:05):
come out the other side andhave the ability to really you
know, I love to use the phrasinghow I show up in the world for
myself and for others, because Ithink that, again, as women, so
many of us are socialized tofocus on how we show up in the
world for others, are socializedto focus on how we show up in
(16:28):
the world for others, and Iactually think it is just as
important in fact more so toshow up well for ourselves,
because I would argue that if Iam not showing up for myself,
that I am not showing up wellfor you, even if I think I am.
Jenny Benitez (16:39):
Oh, oh, yes, absolutely.
You know, I never again.
It's all these epiphanies thathappened around me turning 40,
by the way, like when I wasleading up to turning 40, I had
all these like really majorepiphanies and I kept saying
people, I'm like it's becauseI'm turning 40.
Becky Upchurch (16:53):
It's like the golden age for me it's a good
period of time.
Jenny Benitez (16:57):
I will tell you like I don't know why everyone's
so scared.
This is awesome, this iswonderful.
But you know, it's true, you go, go through these periods where
you know you, you arequestioning yourself, you're
questioning what you're doingand it is that uncomfortability
that really does push you intothe next level.
And I'll use the podcast as anexample too, because the first,
(17:21):
the first, like this it's funny.
Funny because I know otherpodcasters that do the exact
same thing the first fewepisodes, or first like I don't
know couple months of episodesthat I would post, episodes, I
would literally like post itinto my system and then I would
like slam the computer and likerun away from the computer
because I was like so nervous ofthe fact that I'm putting
(17:41):
myself out there and I'veactually had people say that to
me like I could never do thatbecause you're really putting
yourself out there and it'sinteresting because I don't.
In the beginning it was scary.
And now I'm like if I had neverpushed that door open, I
wouldn't have met like you andall these phenomenal women that
are coming onto the podcast andI wouldn't be able to help share
(18:04):
everyone's stories and all this, this great work that
everybody's doing.
Because you know, you yourselfjust said, like you originally
were focusing, you weren'tfocused just on women, but now
you are, and it's so crucial,especially for today's day and
age, for us to have a reallystrong sense of ourselves and
like what's driving us.
Because a really strong senseof ourselves and like what's
(18:28):
driving us because there's somuch noise because of social
media that it it honestly isscary to think about the amount
of people that get lost becauseof what they're seeing online.
Becky Upchurch (18:35):
Absolutely, and you kind of touched on that.
You know, approaching 40, you'recoming into 40.
And I hear that from a lot ofwomen that, like you know, I did
start to feel like I wasgetting more confident in my
forties, but, you know, maybestill have some work to do, but
I definitely think there issomething about turning 40.
And you know, I go back andforth about is it that whole?
You know, as we get older andwe get wiser, hopefully we learn
(18:57):
some things and we realize whatmatters and what doesn't.
But I also think that that maybe kind of the age yet to where
we start to see that thenarrative that we've been sold
our whole lives has some flaws.
And I think about, you know,growing up and it's like, oh,
you know, for me it was like goto school and get a good job,
(19:18):
and it's like, you know, it'slike find a guy, get married,
have a family and and how many,you know, women either end up
not going down that path becausethey don't find the partner, or
their life isn't, or they takethat path and it's like, okay,
I'm doing the things, I'mchecking the boxes and checking
the boxes.
And it's kind of like you'realways waiting for something,
for what comes on the other side, and then nothing comes.
(19:40):
And I think by the time you hit40, you're like I just like I'm
at 40.
Like when's it coming?
Like, you know, it's one thingwhen I'm 20.
And it's like, well, I've got along way to go.
And then you hit 40.
And you're like I'm, this islike half my life, maybe more.
You know, come on what?
Like where's the prize, where'sthe, where's the other side of?
And I think that's when westart realizing that you know,
(20:03):
life isn't a bunch of checkboxesto get us to a destination.
I remember when I was a teenager, a friend of mine had this book
and it was called the Journeyis the Destination.
Right, and I just love thatphrase and it stuck with me for
my whole life.
That we think about, we'redoing all of these things to get
to a destination.
The destination is death.
(20:25):
So if you're doing all of thisstuff to get to the end, well,
what happens at the end is thatwe all die.
So, rather than working,working, working to get to the
destination, I feel like we needto start focusing on the
journey right, and we don't haveto wait till we're 40 to do
that.
We can start doing thatwhenever.
Jenny Benitez (20:44):
You kind of like blew my mind a little bit just
now with what you just saidbecause I this is.
So let me back up for a secondin my head because I get that
really excited.
I had similar upbringing.
Was like go to school, go tocollege, get a job.
For me it was like get acorporate job.
You need to make money,stability, get a pension, if you
(21:08):
can do it Climb the ladder,work 80 hours a week, kill
yourself for the job.
That's what you're supposed todo.
You're supposed to killyourself for the job.
And I did kill myself for thejob, like I was.
I was the girl who got up andwas in the office at seven and
then didn't leave until seven atnight, like that was like, and
I was proud of it, and I wore myburnout like a badge of honor,
(21:28):
like this is great, this is whatI'm supposed to be doing.
Becky Upchurch (21:31):
And I will tell you that is one of my biggest
pet peeves in life, cause Ithink far too many women do that
and I'm like let's stopnormalizing that.
Oh, oh, we have to.
Jenny Benitez (21:40):
You know, and what's crazy is that the agency
that I had joined when I wasfresh out of college, they
actually like advocated forburnout.
And they literally used to say,like this was what I was told
when I was hired this is yourfirst project that you're
working on, XYZ.
Here you go, like, handed methe stuff I have no idea what,
(22:03):
what's what and then it was like, yeah, we like to do trial by
by fire.
And I was like, Okay, and Ididn't know what that meant, but
that was my first learning.
And then that was, I was withthem for about four and a half
years, roughly.
Well, I took that attitude withme when I left and for a lot of
(22:25):
years I was like, well, if youcan't succeed at this, I don't
know what to tell.
Like, and I was not like apleasant.
I was pleasant to work with,but not really because I was one
of those people that was like,oh, you have time to take lunch.
Well, then, you have more timefor more projects.
Like I should give you morework to do, Like that was the
mentality and it's it's sohorrendous because it took me a
(22:45):
really long time.
I don't think I even got past ituntil I was like early 30s, and
then I was like this is not howyou're supposed to be working
with people, and it took me manyyears to to pull back from that
, and I still know people tothis day that still work in that
way.
And I'm like you don't have todo that, though.
Like, why do we feel the needto do that?
(23:06):
There's that and there's alsothis underlying pressure for
women to, like attack each otherin the workplace and I don't
mean physically, you know what Imean Like, oh, why I can't help
.
I can't, you know, advocate formy fellow female colleagues,
because then there's not enoughfor me.
Like that's not really, that'snot there.
Like that, actually, thatrhetoric is set up for us to be
(23:27):
like haggling with each other,when we should really be trying
to elevate each other and lifteach other up.
Becky Upchurch (23:33):
Yeah, that's a narrative that is perpetuated in
our culture so deeply that youknow there's not a lot of space
at the table.
Yep, you know, and I love theexpression that people talk
about.
You know, instead of trying todetermine who is going to get
the last seat at the table, whydon't we just go out and buy a
bigger table?
Yeah, and I think about youknow.
(23:53):
There's the story of somebodyasking Ruth Bader Ginsburg well,
when is it going to be enough,when is it going to be enough to
have you know what is enoughwomen on the court?
And she said when it's all ofthem?
And the person was appalled bythat and she was like, but it's
funny, nobody was appalled whenit was just men, but the idea of
something being all female is,like, shocking and counter
(24:14):
counter which tells you what ourculture perpetuates, right?
And so I think it is that ideaof if I'm a woman, especially in
like a corporate space wheremaybe it's a male-dominated
space, and I believe thatthere's a scarcity situation.
I think a lot of us are taughtwe have to compete in order to
(24:34):
get that spot.
I will tell you for me, when Isee women who are very
competitive and very combativewith other women, what I feel is
I look at that person and I sayit must be difficult to feel
that insecure.
Yes, because I think that whenyou are truly confident and you
truly know what you bring to thetable, you don't have to
(24:58):
compete with anyone.
I always make the joke, youknow.
I said you know, if somebodyever asked me what I bring to
the table, I just look at themand say I bring the damn table
Because I I'm going to go into asituation confident, knowing
what I have to offer.
And I think it ties back to thatidea of saying no.
(25:18):
You know, I had somebody askedme recently about saying no at
work and you know you can't sayno at work.
And I think so many of us thinkwe can't say no at work Because
, again, we think our value istied to how many hours we work
or how much burnout.
But I would argue that, youknow, I remember many years ago
I had a colleague that workedinsane hours and it was like, oh
(25:40):
, this person works like 12 hourdays.
And finally I said to somebodyI said I don't know that person,
I don't know their situation.
I said but has anybody alsoever asked like maybe it's not
that that person is verydedicated, maybe it's that that
person is very inefficient,because that could also be true
right.
But we just assume, oh, you work12 hour days, six days a week,
(26:01):
you must be really dedicated.
Well, not necessarily.
So I think, just kind ofquestioning these narratives
that we've been fed, that webought into and like, hey, maybe
I don't need to work 80 hours aweek because what I accomplish
in 40 is better than what otherpeople do at 80.
Right, and building thatconfidence in ourselves and
(26:23):
recognizing what we bring to thetable, whether it be in work,
in relationships, as a parent,as a friend, and really trusting
that who we are and the waythat we show up is our value and
that we don't have to jumpthrough hoops to get approval to
define our worth, I um I hadgone on like a bit of a you know
(26:46):
, professional journey, as Imentioned, and it's very in line
with, like what you're saying.
Jenny Benitez (26:50):
And it started when I was about like 37 ish or
whatever and, um, I had gottenput on this project and I didn't
have capacity for it.
I said I was like I can'tsupport this project, like I
don't, I don't have enough time,I can't do it, I have too much
other things.
And um, I got put on it anyway.
I all of a sudden just was onit.
(27:10):
I was just getting emails andthey were like Jenny, do this?
And I was like I said I can'tdo this.
So it was like I said no, butthey didn listen.
So I went through this wholeperiod for about three weeks or
so where I was working 12, 15hour days and my kids were very
little at the time.
And you know, my my husband,bless him was he.
(27:33):
He had slowed down his work solike he had stopped working
during COVID and then he wasstay at home dad so that I could
do my profession, like he knewhow important it was to me.
And so he was.
He was handling the kids and Iwould come out to like make
breakfast and do baths orwhatever, and then I would go
back into my office and it waslike constant because I worked
from home.
(27:53):
And at the end of the threeweeks I was like had this
epiphany, almost breakdownmoment of like I haven't,
haven't seen my kids and theylook bigger now and I lost three
weeks.
I'm like can't get it back.
And after that happened Irealized I was like that was the
thing that really pushed me tobe like I have to stop this now,
(28:15):
because for me it was my kids.
For other people it might besomething else.
That is your moment of like.
I'm sacrificing myself for myjob.
But at the end of the day, hereI'm just a number, I am
completely replaceable, and justkilling yourself for your job
is not really going to get youanywhere.
(28:35):
Because if you were to dietoday, if you are one of these
folks, that's a workaholic likehow I used to be.
If you were to die today, yourjob is going to get you anywhere
.
Because if you were to dietoday, if you are one of these
folks, that's a workaholic likehow I used to be.
If you were to die today, yourjob is going to be posted within
24 hours, 48 hours, they'regoing to hire someone to replace
you.
They're not going to doanything.
So after I had this period whereI was like crazy at work, I
found out through anothercolleague that a former
(28:59):
colleague of mine had died.
She was only in her early 40s.
She worked herself to death.
She was a workaholic,constantly in the office, didn't
go to the doctor when she wassick, would just
over-the-counter medicines, andby the time she died she was
again early 40s about where I'mat right now and she was leaving
(29:21):
her house and she dropped deadon her front lawn because she
had had a urinary tractinfection that backed up into
her kidneys and then she endedup going septic.
She never addressed it, shejust kept powering through and I
found out about that and then,after what I had just gone
through and I was like I have tomake a change here.
(29:42):
So at my current place of work,when I was interviewing I said I
was like I don't do travel andI need to be able to from 330 to
430, like block my calendarbecause I have to get my kids
off the bus from school.
I'm like I'm not going to rushit, I'm not going to rush them.
(30:05):
I'm not going to compromisemyself Like I need to set these
boundaries.
Becky, I, for the first sixmonths of the job, had to
consistently remind people Icannot get on a call with you
from 330 to 430.
That was probably the hardestthing Professionally as a, as a
woman, as a mother, like havingto constantly tell people no,
but I can meet you tomorrowmorning or we can meet earlier
(30:26):
in the day, but I cannot do it.
At that time it was, it wasvery difficult and it was
because of that constant need tohave to tell them like, no,
can't do it, you know.
And then I even had a recentsituation where, even though all
this history that I have and Iknow that setting the boundary
is important where I was askedto do something work related,
(30:47):
travel and I had to say I waslike I can't do that, my kids
are young.
Like I have to be here I.
This is the line that I'vedrawn and I'm sticking with it.
And even with all the knowledgethat I have, I still am
uncomfortable with it.
I do it, but I'm uncomfortable.
Becky Upchurch (31:03):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that's the thing we we
sometimes underestimate howuncomfortable we're going to
feel, but again, when it's, it'sso normalized to say yes and
it's so normalized to.
Oh well, you don't want to bethe person at work who's not the
team player.
You don't want to be the personat work who's not the team
player.
You don't want to be the oneperson who's not staying late or
(31:26):
the one person who's not in themeeting.
But again, I think a lot of thatbalance is.
You know, the fact that youwere very upfront about this is
what I'm willing to do and notdo.
I think there are some peoplewho would say, well, I can't do
that, I won't get the job.
Well, you're proof that that'suntrue, right, right.
(31:47):
And so I think the moreevidence we can collect that
some of these things that wehave been taught to believe are
just simply untrue, the easierit becomes to take the chances
and to start.
You know, I always give theanalogy of it's like a muscle.
You know, the more you dosomething, the more comfortable
you get with it.
I joke all the time that myfavorite word is no, and you
know I love saying yes to peopleand things.
But the reason I love saying nois because I fundamentally
(32:11):
believe that every time you sayno to something that you do not
want whether it be something youdon't want in your life,
something you don't want to door something that does not serve
you it creates space for sayingyes to things that do.
Jenny Benitez (32:25):
Oh, I like that.
Becky Upchurch (32:27):
I feel like everything in life is a balance
right.
So if I'm saying yes to fivethings I don't want to do,
that's five things I do want todo, that I now have to say no to
right.
(32:47):
So it's like I have to say noto my things to make space for
your things.
Or I say no to your things orsociety's things or whoever's,
and then those are things that Ican now bring in that I want to
cultivate my life.
Jenny Benitez (32:52):
I haven't heard of it, I haven't heard that
articulated in that way before,but that makes a lot of sense,
because if you're saying yes toeveryone else's things like if I
, if I only have Saturday andSunday free to myself and I'm
saying yes to everybody else,that means that I have no time
for my things, which I will sayI did know, like this past year
I was making it, I was making itlike a very serious mission of
(33:16):
mine to be trying not to do that, you know, and putting myself
in positions where I was likecommitting to things that I knew
I was going to be upset aboutor frustrated with.
And one thing that I did committo is that on the weekends that
I am having time where I amjust like hanging out with my
family, and that sounds like, ohwell, jenny, just like hang out
(33:38):
with your family.
But I have always had thisthing where I couldn't sit down
and relax and watch a moviebecause I have to do the dishes
or I have to clean the law, Ihave to do the laundry, I have
to fold the laundry, oh, but ifI don't fold the laundry now,
but then I have to get dinner onthe table and if I get don't
get dinner on the table, that'sgoing to push baths back.
And then if I and it was likethis constant like pressing of,
(34:01):
like, oh no, you have toconstantly be doing all the
things and again, only in thepast year have I started to
really recognize, like you don'thave to do, that you can
actually sit down and like playgames with your kids and go in
the pool.
What the play games with theirkids?
And go in the pool what theBecky?
We moved into our home in 2022.
(34:23):
And the first year that we werehere where the pool was open
no-transcript, because I wasconstantly working, and then I
would get off of work and Iwould start dinner right away
and then it would be bath timeand it would be this and it
would just snowball and Iliterally, and somebody,
somebody asked me oh, you mustbe in the pool all the time and
(34:45):
I was like no, I'm not.
This is terrible.
I'm like I'm no fun.
This is horrible.
What we talked, this ishorrible.
We talked about.
You know there's obviously, youknow saying no is an issue Fear
and guilt for women.
You know that's like loads tounpack but, like in your work,
(35:09):
what are you seeing?
Fear of and guilt with the most.
Becky Upchurch (35:19):
So the fear is rejection, and we don't
necessarily see it as rejection,but that's how I see it and I
think it's really again.
It really goes back, so so sofar, into, not even just for
women, how we're socialized, butback to, like, the origins of
human survival.
When you think about how peoplesurvived and you couldn't
survive on your own right, youhad to be part of a community,
(35:41):
you had to be part of a groupand if you were living in a
community and that communityostracized you, you most likely
weren't going to survive on yourown in early days of you know
existence.
Obviously, now you know life isvery different.
But when you think back to likehow we evolved in community
with one another, we arefoundationally designed to live
(36:05):
in community with other people.
And so, even though in 2024,when we're having this
conversation, if one of myfriends ostracizes me, it's not,
I'm not going to die from it.
Right, I'm not at.
You know, it's not like, oh,I've been thrown out into the
wilderness on my own with nofood or water or weapons and
there's wild animals ready toeat me.
(36:26):
That's not the scenario, unlessI'm doing something really
weird with my friends and itgoes awry.
Things is, oh my gosh, I'm indanger, I am going to lose that
community.
I'm going to lose thatconnection, like we are wired
for human connection.
So the fear is really thatrejection, that if I say no, if
(36:52):
I set this boundary, and thatperson gets upset because you
know, again, most of us, ifwe've set boundaries and we've
said no, have had the experienceof somebody kind of bristling
at it.
Yeah, so then it's like, ohwell, I know they're going to
get upset with me and then whathappens?
So it's that fear of rejection,it's that fear of losing that
community and not being acceptedand not being a part of things.
(37:16):
The other piece of it, you know,the guilt, I think, goes back
to our identities.
You know, just listening to youtalk about, you know, coming
home and not using the poolbecause it's like, well, I've
got to get dinner started and wedon't want to mess up the bath
schedule.
And that makes perfect sense tome, hearing you say it, and I
bet you it would make perfectsense to every woman listening
to this conversation.
(37:37):
And yet I think the average manwould be like, well, why don't
you just give the bath leave?
We're like, well, why doesdinner have to be at a certain
time?
Right, and not because theydon't care, but because they
were socialized differently.
Yes, they see their roles, likeI'm.
I don't know your husband atall, but I imagine he probably
(37:58):
doesn't sit there and thinkabout what time the bath and the
dinner, and it's just not howmen are programmed or wired or
raised in our society as a whole.
And so I think that's where theguilt comes in.
It's I have to and that's youknow.
You'd asked earlier about kindof signs that maybe we need to
(38:18):
set some boundaries, and one ofthe things you know, if you find
yourself using language eitherto friends or to yourself, I
have to, I need to, right, I dothat one a lot.
It's like, oh well, I need todo this thing and it's like do I
really need that or am I justusing that verbiage Because it's
something that I don't actuallywant to do and maybe it's
(38:40):
somebody else's stuff or stuffthat I've made my stuff that I
don't actually want to be mystuff.
Jenny Benitez (38:45):
It's um, I haven't talked through any of
this in a really long time andit's interesting to refresh my
memory on all of it Because I'vebeen on the journey for so long
.
But the the socialization is isinteresting to observe between
little boys and little girls,and I see it with my kids and as
(39:07):
much as, like my husband and Iwere very active communicators.
So we will, we talk our kidsthrough everything, even when
they get in trouble, like ifthey, you know, yell at them or
whatever.
We talk that we talk to them,post and we're like okay, this
is what happened, let's, youknow, talk through this and
everything.
So they're all getting raisedpretty similar, like that's all
(39:29):
happening the right way.
But for some reason, for somereason, my son feels that he
needs to be the in charge, likethe leader, and I know that he's
picking things up for myhusband, which is very cute to
see.
Like him taking on this, I'mthe man role.
But in my house it's a bit ofan issue because I also am
(39:53):
teaching the girls like you areleaders, to like we're leaders
here, we're not followers, andthe the amount of stress this
causes my son because he wantsso badly to be like this is it,
and this is how it is.
And the girls are like no, Iwill not do that, and and.
(40:15):
So now we're teaching themtools to like work with someone
in that scenario, like, okay,well, if he doesn't want to do
this or he's not listening toyou, because they'll come to me
and be like, oh, he's notlistening or he's not, you know,
doing what I'm asking him to doI tell them like, well, you
know, it's okay to move on Likeyou might want him to, but if he
(40:38):
doesn't want to, like, you canonly control yourself.
You can't control other people.
That was also a big lesson forme that I had to learn.
And so now, like I'm trying to,I'm trying everything.
Let me tell you, becky,everything that I learned in the
past like five years.
I'm trying to make sure that mykids get all that now at seven
and eight, because for a reallylong time, I would get
incredibly stressed out aboutwhat other people were doing and
(41:01):
the need to like control andand you know, be like well, I'll
set all this up and I'll dothis.
And you know, just show up andand and me like articulate, like
having to make sure everythingwas running exactly how I saw.
It's taken like years for me tolike, let go, years for me to
like, let go of that and to letgo of that ego control where I'm
like, oh, I'm all the way atthe top of the tower now and I'm
(41:24):
in control of all the thingsand it can't run without me,
just can't, and.
But it can run without me,everyone else can do it, I don't
have to be stressed out and I,you know, could get like less
wrinkles this way.
Becky Upchurch (41:41):
The world will keep on turning right If we
don't show up for a day, and Ithink that that's such an
important point, as is that ideaof control, because I will tell
you.
That is one of the things that Iwant everybody to understand
about setting a boundary.
I think there are so manypeople that have been taught or
(42:01):
have somehow learned or come tounderstand boundaries as a
boundary is something I do toget another person to behave a
certain way or stop behaving acertain way, a certain way, and
that is not, in fact, what aboundary is.
And if you set a boundary,thinking I'm going to say or do
(42:26):
this thing, so that the otherperson just stop right there,
Because you can set a boundaryand tell that person I don't
like it when you do this.
And if you do this, here'sgoing to be your consequence,
quote, unquote, and that personcan smile and say OK, and then
just keep doing that thing overand over and over again.
And so we have to really thinkabout what do I need for myself
(42:46):
to be at peace?
What do I need for myself?
Again, it goes back to how do Iwant to show up for myself and
in the world, and whatboundaries do I need to set to
show up in that way?
How do I want to make peace inthis situation and really make
it about us, not in a selfishway, but in a I am the only
(43:08):
person I have control over way.
And I am the worst that I willremember things, and it's like I
remember part of the quote butI don't remember who said it.
So there's a quote that I'mfairly certain was said either
by Elizabeth Gilbert or BreneBrown, and the gist of the quote
is about having control.
And it's like you know,thinking that if I just do these
(43:30):
things, that I can, you know,get control back or I can have
control.
But what we don't realize is wenever had control, we just had
anxiety.
I think that's such a perfectthing for so many women is we
spend so much time trying tokind of manipulate the situation
, trying to be the overseer ofall things, to streamline all
(43:54):
things, to take on all thethings to make sure they go the
way we want them to, to makesure things go smoothly,
thinking that if we do all thethings and we do all the things
right, then everything will goexactly as we had planned and we
will have control.
But we never have control.
We just are creating anxietyfor ourselves.
And I feel like we see that somuch with women, where it's like
(44:17):
why do I feel anxious all thetime?
It's like because you feel likeyou are responsible for the
entire world.
And I will never forget, manyyears ago I was having a
conversation with someone and wewere kind of talking about
feeling the weight of the world,and the person was like I don't
know why you feel like you'reresponsible.
And basically what I said tothem.
I said you know, it's like thatline from the Bible those to
(44:40):
whom much has been given, muchis expected.
And I said I feel like I'msomebody who's been given a lot
and I'm somebody who's beenblessed a lot, and so I feel
like a lot, like I owe a lot inreturn, if that makes sense,
because I've been given so much.
It is incumbent upon me to, to,you know, step up.
And I said you know, andsometimes it just feels like I
(45:03):
have the weight of the world onmy shoulders, like I'm
responsible for everything andeveryone all the time, and I
just remember the person sayingwow, that sounds really
exhausting, yeah, and I thinkabout how many women you know
and I was, I think, in my 20swhen that conversation happened
but I think how many womencouldn't be having that
conversation in their 20s ortheir 30s or their 40s.
(45:26):
You know there are women who areway past their 40s who I think
still, you know, struggle withsome of this, and it really is.
Take all of those things thatwe've been taught and all of
those assumptions that we makeabout how we can maintain
control and how our being moreinvolved gives us more safety or
gives us more of the outcomeswe want, and it's scary to kind
(45:51):
of acknowledge that that mightnot be true.
Like I can show up fully, I cantry to manipulate the situation
and I may not get what I want,but I think it can also be very
freeing to realize and that youknow what.
I can just show up the way Iwant to, not the way I think I
have to.
Jenny Benitez (46:08):
Well, because the reality of it is is that if
you're not showing upauthentically, then you're
creating a whole course that isnot really meant to be.
And if you're not showing upauthentically and you're showing
up how you think you need toshow up and you're controlling
things how you think that theyshould be controlled, then
you're not leaving yourself thatspace for the what.
(46:33):
If it aligns for me and youknow, when you show up.
When I started really reallybeing myself and really being
true to like what does Jennywant here?
How is Jenny feeling about thissituation?
When I started doingmeditations daily and
affirmations I have my kidsdoing affirmations every night
like a Becky.
(46:53):
It's like real here.
Without all those tools of likeaffirmations, visualizations,
meditation, like journaling,reading, you know, expanding the
mind a little bit, like,without all those tools I would
be in a.
I don't even know what place Iwould be in right now.
I'd still probably be in thishouse but, like, mentally, I
(47:17):
don't think I would be in a goodheadspace because when I was on
the path where I wascontrolling everything, I wasn't
in a, I wasn't in a goodheadspace and my kids used to
tell me, like mommy, like why doyou look so sad all the time.
Why are you always mad?
Mommy screams a lot.
Mommy, you want to?
One of the girls say to me theone time and it like crushed me,
(47:38):
as children's words usually doshe said something to the effect
of like we're not, we're notgood enough, that's why you yell
at us, yep.
And I was like, oh God, and itwas in that brief time that I
told you where I was like reallystressed out and my work was
(47:59):
like totally out of whack and Ihad no boundary set and I was
doing all the things.
Well, I was showing up as likea terrible human person, in my
opinion, in comparison to what Icould be, because I wasn't
filling my cup and I was justtaking, taking, taking and
filling everything else foreverybody else and trying to
control things, and it did nogood for me or my family.
(48:24):
So it's it's incrediblyimportant for women to to get on
board with this and reallystart looking into, in my
opinion, coaching and partneringwith somebody and I mean I have
accountability partners that Ireach out to when I'm feeling
like kind of low and I'm likehey, like you want to chat real
quick, like I can do, and mostof it's.
(48:44):
What's really funny is likenine times out of 10.
They reply and they're like, ohmy god, me too, I really need
to talk, like let's just likeright.
So really none of us are.
This is not unique to me, thisis not unique to Becky.
This is all of us going throughthis.
We're all in the same boat.
We need to start reaching outto each other and supporting
each other and talking to eachother.
(49:05):
And then Becky has thiswonderful skill set.
She could actually guide you inwhat tools to use, because
there is a lot of misinformationout there.
So you know, it's not just like, oh, you know, you're just
thinking happy thoughts, likethere's a lot more to it.
You know, like you ever seethose.
It actually kind of irritatesme now when I see posts that are
(49:26):
just like you know, think happyand that simple, and I'm like
well, it's not that simple.
Becky Upchurch (49:37):
It's part of it, but it's not all of it.
Well, it's funny.
I'm I'm chuckling because my mybest friend and I were having a
conversation the other dayabout toxic positivity, um, and,
and one of the things that Itake great pride in and I was
talking about with somebody elselast week was, um, one of the
best compliments I got, um as acoach from someone was you know
what I like about you?
They're like you're a lifecoach, but you're not one of
those life coaches that's justlike oh, everything's wonderful,
(50:00):
life is amazing.
And I was like, yeah, because,like, life can be really hard
and that's the thing ispretending that things are not
difficult.
Does it make them better?
No, better is saying thissituation feels difficult.
How do I navigate it?
And how do I navigate it in away that feels better for me,
(50:20):
not like well, I'm just going topretend it's great until it
becomes great Like there arethings in life that are going to
feel difficult, and that's justkind of how life works.
I think sometimes people havethis idea that, oh, when you
figure things out and you getlife together and you get tools,
that everything is great allthe time and it's like, no, you
just have tools to navigate whenthings are great and when
(50:42):
things are not.
And I think to your point, youknow the willingness to talk
about these things, thewillingness to be open, to be
present.
You know, I remember years andyears ago talking to my sister
and I was supposed to go on adate and I had gotten stood up
and I just had like I didn'tthink that was a real thing that
(51:03):
happened.
I thought it was like somethingthat happened in the movies,
like a bad plot line on a sitcom.
You know, I was like crying,not even over the person, I just
I think it was like I just wasso shocked and hurt and and just
all the things, and I call andI'm it was like I just was so
shocked and hurt and and justall the things, and I call and
I'm talking to my sister aboutit and she's like, you know, I
just wouldn't think about itanymore, just like go home, get
(51:23):
some rest, cause I had pulledover in like a McDonald's
parking lot and crying andtalking to my sister and I said
I'm going to do that.
I'm going to like delete hisnumber and not think about it
anymore.
I was like as soon as I go liveand talk about it to strangers
on the internet.
And she was like, I'm sorry,what are you about to do?
And I was like, well, here'sthe thing.
I was like this is really sucky, yeah, and I didn't think it
(51:45):
was something that happeneduntil my then business coach at
the time, who used to be adating coach, talked about what
my dating coach clients wouldget, stood up and I was like,
wait, this is like a thing thathappens all the time, like I had
no idea and how many peopledon't know that and how many
people need to hear this message?
And and it was not, you know,going on camera with cry face
(52:09):
not my finest moment, I'm sure,but also the willingness to
share our experiences.
And obviously it's a little bitdifferent when you do this work
professionally and I I'm a firmbeliever of as a coach you are
asking people to be veryvulnerable and open with you,
and so, while certainly it's notthe same relationship, going in
(52:30):
the opposite direction, I dothink that, as coaches, we need
to be willing to share thingsand not always put our best face
forward and to acknowledge thatlike hey, like, my life is not
perfect.
No one's life is perfect.
I always argue.
If you have somebody that tellsyou that everything in their
life is perfect, I personallywould be very suspect.
Jenny Benitez (52:51):
Yeah, that's actually pretty suspicious, it's
not possible, and I love that.
I love what you just said too,because I think that's actually
pretty suspicious.
Yeah, it's not possible, and Ilove that.
I love what you just said too,because I think that's also part
of the apprehension with folkslook seeking out coaches because
, well, one they're like a lifecoach, like what, what kind of,
what kind of dummy am I?
I can't figure this out.
It's like okay, first of all,everybody needs help.
(53:14):
Like raise your hand, likelet's do this, like you want to
knock this out of the park, likefind somebody, like Becky, or
find Becky, and you know.
So that that's one thing.
The vulnerability factor andsharing the stories, I mean
clearly that's what the podcast,that's what this podcast was
founded on.
It was founded on the fact thatI was really struggling as a
mom and as a professionalcombined and I was like there
(53:36):
has to be other women goingthrough the same thing I'm going
to.
I want to start to affectchange.
I want people to hear thesestories.
I want people to be in touchwith other women, to hear other
women's stories, and there'squite a few guests that actually
have come on that have gonethrough some significant,
massive trauma and they actuallyturned it into something where
I'm like you know what?
I'm going to?
Share my story.
I'm going to help other people.
(53:56):
A lot of women are doing it nowand they're coming to this
podcast, which is like blowingmy mind, because that's what
this was created for.
I just did a.
Yeah, I mean, I just did a.
I just did an episode, you know, recently and like the next day
one of the guests was one ofthe guests for the fall was kind
of said to me.
She was like I'm so glad youposted that episode.
(54:18):
It was so raw and essentiallyon the episode, I like kind of
broke down a little bit.
But I also I said I was likeI'm having a tough time and I
don't want anyone to get theperception that this is easy.
Like I work full time, I podcastalmost full time and then I
have my kids and my husband andmy house and like everything
(54:39):
else that I'm supposed to becarrying, you know to do, and
I'm like it's not easy, you know, and I don't want anyone to
ever get the misperception thatit's like, oh, everything's
perfect and this is like no,hell, no, no, definitely not.
So I'm so glad you said thatbecause your, your style is
what's sorely needed, becauseit's real.
(54:59):
This is real.
You're not sitting here sayingeverything's perfect and
sunshine and rainbows coming outof everything all the time.
No, it's a real way to approachlife and you're providing the
tools for folks to actually beable to, like you said, manage
things as they come.
For folks to actually be ableto, like you said, manage things
(55:21):
as they come.
Becky Upchurch (55:23):
Becky, I could probably talk to you for like
six more hours, I just want youto know.
Jenny Benitez (55:25):
I know, I know I just saw the time and I was like
, oh my gosh, listeners, I'mgoing to link all of Becky's
things, all her content,wherever you can reach Becky,
it's going to be linked in thedescription of the podcast.
Becky, thank you so much forcoming on.
Becky Upchurch (55:41):
I greatly appreciate it, and I think the
listeners will appreciate it.
Thank you for having me.
This was so much fun and I feellike we have a lot of synergy,
and so it's always good to talkto somebody like minded, who
it's like.
Jenny Benitez (55:50):
I get excited.
Well, listeners, thank you somuch for joining us on this
episode and we'll see you on thenext one.
Hi everybody, welcome to Still Roses podcast.
This podcast was created forwomen, by women, to elevate
women's voices.
I am very excited to introduceyou to our guest today, becky
Upchurch.
Becky is a mindset coach whospecializes in helping people
create lives they love by sayingno to the things they don't,
without fear or guilt, creatingspace to pursue their goals and
(00:24):
do more of what lights them up.
Becky, you already know howexcited I am to have you here.
Welcome to the show.
I think what you're about to,the wisdom that you're about to
impart on us, I think is goingto be pretty significant for a
lot of women out there.
So welcome to the show.
Becky Upchurch (00:42):
Thank you.
I am super excited to be here.
This is a topic that I am verypassionate about and I saw when
I was kind of getting to knowwho you were and learning about
your work just your work inelevating women's voices and I
think about that in terms ofhaving women on your show, but
also opening the door for womento use their voices, which, to
(01:04):
me, this is kind of what thisspeaks to, because many of us
were taught to use our voices tosay yes as we smile, and I
think there's a lot of otherways that we can use our voices,
so hopefully we can talk aboutthat today.
Jenny Benitez (01:17):
Yes, and I have to tell you I'm especially
interested in this line herethat says creating lives, a life
that you love, by saying no tothings, because that in itself
we can unpack for like three orfour hours.
But, becky, before you go intoit, because I have a lot for you
to talk about here, how did you, how did you get your start
(01:38):
here?
Like what?
What inspired you to go intocoaching?
How did you get your startthere?
Becky Upchurch (01:43):
So, I actually came to coaching through the
world of academia.
I was a classroom teacher and Ileft the classroom to become an
instructional coach and Iactually love instructional
coaching and that was where Idid my first coach training.
And then I have the realizationof, you know, coaching is great
in the world of education, butthere is so much applicability
(02:05):
in life and other spheres andthat's what led me to enrolling
in an ICF accredited coachtraining program and starting my
company and it's been quite aninteresting journey.
And then, most recently, is whatI had, this epiphany actually
last year I can't remember if Iwas on a coaching call,
listening to one of my coachescoach or if I was watching
something she did but I just hadthis moment where I realized
(02:28):
that, you know, I'd been focusedon mindset for so long and it
was kind of more general mindsetstuff, because there's so many
different areas of mindset thatI'm passionate about and so many
things I love.
And then I just had thisrealization that, oh, something
that a lot of women reallystruggle with is saying no and
not feeling like crap about it,and that's something that I am
(02:49):
super good at.
So I was like, oh, maybe Ishould focus a little bit more
on that, because, you know, ifwe really want to make change in
the world, I feel like we haveto dig into some of these places
that aren't really talked abouta lot.
Jenny Benitez (03:02):
I completely agree.
I think that for far too long,women's issues and things that
we were experiencing and Ialways like to caveat this with
like I'm not saying poo poo onmen I love my husband, love men
in general but like women gothrough a certain set of
unfortunate experiences and itputs us on almost like, almost
(03:27):
like a constant level ofcortisol in some instances, like
a constant strain on us andsaying no is probably one of the
hardest things for us to do.
I only only after turning like Ithink I was like 37 or 38.
Only then did I really start tolike.
(03:48):
That was like the second time Ihad the aha moment of like I
have to set boundaries.
The first time I realized I hadto set boundaries and I needed
to do things for myself, I was25.
And then it almost like resetitself again.
And I've heard from other womentoo.
A big barrier is wanting to bepeople pleasing yes and trying
(04:10):
to and, like what you said, likeyou're trying to mold yourself
into what everyone around you islooking for, but then you're
not really living your life.
Becky Upchurch (04:17):
Right, and I think that a big part of that
comes into play with how we'reraised.
And you talked about kind ofthat distinction between men and
women, and I say the same thingto people I love men, men are
wonderful.
I focus my coachingspecifically on women, but I
didn't start out that way.
But I really started thinkingabout the fact that women do
have a particular.
You know, obviously not everywoman there's always exceptions
(04:40):
but as a whole, I find thatwomen have a particular set of
challenges that seem to besymptomatic across our gender
and I think a lot of it isrelated to how we are socialized
and some of the aspects of ourculture and what we're taught
about what it means to be a goodwoman, a good wife, a good
mother, a good sister, daughter,friend, whatever it may be, and
(05:03):
how much of that is ingrainedin us from such a young age and
we don't even realize it's thereand yet it drives so much of
our behavior.
Jenny Benitez (05:13):
So I I reflect on this quite a bit because I have
two daughters, I have twingirls and I have a little boy.
So I have this mix in front ofme that I'm like I want everyone
to be strong, articulate,independent young people.
And the girls are seven andI've always been very cautious
about phrasing and how I'm likecorrecting them or how I'm
(05:37):
communicating to them across allthree kids.
But with the girls inparticular, they were really
little and they might not everremember this, but somewhere in
their subliminal, you know, inthe back of their mind it might
be there, but I forget.
One of the twins was doingsomething and it was very
aggressive and I almost said, ohmy gosh, you don't have to be
(05:59):
so aggressive, stop that.
And then I stopped myself andwas like let's try to calm
ourselves down.
Like she was doing something,something in particular that I
was like I don't want to saydon't be aggressive, because I'm
like I kind of want you to beaggressive.
So I'm going to change thatphrase and so I'm just very,
very cautious because I do thinklike as a you know, a
theoretical.
(06:20):
All of us, as you said, aresocialized from young, very
young.
So the images that we see on TV, in movies, the books that
we're being exposed to, howwe're perceived, how women are
perceived in media all of thatcombined on a daily basis, we're
being assaulted, basically,with this image of like this is
what you're supposed to do andthen, if you don't do this, like
(06:42):
you're, you're not worthy ofmarriage or you're not.
You can't be a mom and be likethis at the same time.
For for young women listeningto this and trying to work out
in their head like oh well, Isay no to things like what would
be, what would be somethingthat you would say to someone
(07:03):
that's like how would I know ifI'm, if I have a problem saying
no, like some people don'trealize it, that they don't,
that they have an issue with it.
What would be like a tip?
Becky Upchurch (07:13):
So I think one of the first things that I would
look for is are you somebodywho finds yourself thinking I
never can find the time to getto my things.
I never can find the time to dothe things I really want to do?
There's this thing I've wantedto try for a month and I can't
(07:33):
seem to fit it into my schedule,Because that could often be a
little, you know, a little flagwaving saying hey, what's all
the stuff that's in yourcalendar if it's not the stuff
that you want to do?
And then, if you start lookingat it and you realize, and then
another one is start reallytuning into how you're feeling
in situations.
So you might be somebody whodoesn't think you have, you know
(07:57):
, a problem being a peoplepleaser, but if you find that
you're even going to a socialevent and you're sitting there
thinking I'm so tired, I wish Iwas home on my couch, Okay, Well
, why aren't you home on yourcouch?
Is it because you showed up,because you felt you had to was
there that?
Oh, I'm going to miss out,Someone's going to be upset with
me.
So sometimes it's really subtlethings that we don't necessarily
(08:20):
think to look for but, reallytuning to how do I feel in
different situations, because Iam a firm believer that our body
tells us everything we need toknow if we learn to listen to it
.
Jenny Benitez (08:33):
I totally agree.
I totally agree.
At about 24, 25 was when Istarted to really pay attention
to, like, what am I feeling?
Do I really want to do this oram I just doing this because I
feel obligated?
Because what I started tonotice and I'm not even really
(08:55):
sure how I ended up down thispath, but but I had started this
self discovery phase of my lifeand I I realized that, like a
lot of situations that I was in,I wasn't happy with it.
Everyone around me was happyand I'm jumping through hoops
like supporting everybody aroundme, but me myself I was like
I'm not really happy, and thiswas prior to meeting my husband
(09:17):
and I had.
Really, at the time I was like Ireally want to meet someone,
I'd like to have a partner, likeI want to eventually get
married and have kids, to meetsomeone I'd like to have a
partner, like I want toeventually get married and have
kids, and it just wasn'thappening.
And then that's when I thinkthe moment came where I was like
, well, I'm spending all my timedoing everything that everyone
else wants me to do, like I'mprobably not going to meet
someone, like decorating forsomeone else's child's birthday
(09:41):
party, like that's probably not,and I think that might've been
like the catalyst there, becausethen I actually had started to
focus really in on me and likewhat I wanted.
So when I met my husband, itbecame like this, almost like
test for me, and I was like letme just use these tools that
I've learned.
At the time I was reading thebook the Secret.
(10:02):
It had just come out, it hadexploded and I took it and I was
like I'm going to try this,like I think this is a really
good one for me.
So I started seeing my husbandand as soon as I started to like
prioritize things that made mehappy, I noticed that the folks
that had been in my like quoteunquote inner circle around me
(10:23):
started to get really angry andstarted to attack consistently,
like on a regular basis, beinglike this isn't you, you know,
this isn't who you are, this isnot you know, this is not the
person we know.
Like you're losing yourself.
And the more they press, themore that I turned internally
(10:44):
and really thought about that.
I'm like well, how do I feelright now?
Like do I have that pit in mystomach that I used to have and
I would be, you know, obligatedto go do something, or am I okay
?
And every time I came back andI was like, no, I'm happy.
So if they're not happy for me,then they're probably not meant
to be in alignment with my pathmoving forward, like that's
(11:07):
where.
That's actually how I startedto look at it.
Becky Upchurch (11:20):
I'm going to say no to things and I'm going to
lose my friends, and people aregoing to be mad at me.
And there's a few differentways to look at this, and I
think you know one of them isthat idea of well, if they are
people I lose as a result, maybethey're not the right people
for this stage of my life, thisphase, this path that I'm taking
.
But it can also be a situationwhere there may just be some
(11:40):
growing pains.
Yeah, and what I mean by thatis change is really hard, just
like, fundamentally for humanbeings, change is not an easy
thing.
It feels very challenging.
You know, one of the things thatI find so interesting is
conversations around evenpositive change.
Feeling is so uncomfortablebecause we like status quo, our
(12:01):
brains are designed for comfort,not growth, and so it can be
really uncomfortable for us tochange.
And it can also be reallyuncomfortable for other people
when we change, because, athey're dealing with the change
factor and, b they're dealingwith something else that I think
most humans hate, which is lackof control.
Yes, so you put those twothings together and it's like,
(12:25):
oh, I'm trying to navigate thetwo most uncomfortable feelings
in the world, and there's thisperson in front of me who I
think I know really well, andsuddenly I'm questioning if I
know them as well as I thought,because they're acting
differently and I don't knowwhat to do.
And unfortunately, in a lot ofsituations, that discomfort
comes across as they're mad atus, they are upset we have done
(12:49):
something wrong, when in realityit's just they may need help
navigating this journey as well,and so I feel like the right
people will be able to navigatethat discomfort with you and
come out the other side, and Iam a believer that those who
don't or can't, it's worth maybeevaluating if they still belong
(13:12):
in your life, what role theyneed to play.
Jenny Benitez (13:15):
That was exactly my experience, and so anyone
who's listening to this, yes, itfeels painful in the moment and
it even feels off to use insome instances because, as Becky
had said, our brain, our brains, are not wired for change like
we're not.
We are actually not set up forthat.
I read a book by Dr JoeDispenza where he talks through
(13:41):
like the wiring in your brainand I had to read this section
of the book like four timesbecause it took a minute.
Becky Upchurch (13:48):
Brain science is tough, I will tell you.
Jenny Benitez (13:52):
I try to like pride myself on being like smart
and being able to intelligenceand everything, and this is like
.
It took me a minute.
It took me a while, but I readthis portion of his book where
he talks through like thatuncomfortable feeling that
you're having is actually yourbrain rewiring itself.
So, like on any given day orany given year, you're doing the
same things over and over againand your body is wired to react
(14:13):
emotionally the same exact wayeach time.
And this is our comfort level.
We're used to going through thesame thing over and over again
status quo, exactly what yousaid.
If you decide to changesomething in your status quo,
what you said, if you decide tochange something in your status
quo, your brain.
It's almost like.
Think about train tracks andyou have now tried to make a
change.
So you've shifted the track andcreated a new set of tracks,
(14:35):
and so your brain, littleconductor, is like why am I
going down this path?
I've only made a right here,why is there now a fork in the
road?
And so your brain has to adjustto this new path.
What I've recently experiencedin the past year after gaining
this knowledge is that each timeI was on the precipice of good
(14:56):
change, or something that wasreally pushing me towards growth
is when I was the mostuncomfortable and when I was the
most scared, to be perfectlyhonest.
But if you can just push pastthat point, then the rewards are
many, and I'm not saying likeoh, it's like prizes, but like
your whole, your life trajectorycan change for the better
(15:18):
because you're pushing yourselfinto alignment with what you're
actually supposed to be, inalignment with.
Becky Upchurch (15:23):
Right, and I love that you bring that up.
I actually had a conversationyears ago with a friend of mine.
I refer to her as my wisecounsel.
She is the person that I go towhen I need perspective and
wisdom, and we were having aconversation once that I don't
even remember what it was about,but somehow the topic of
discomfort came up and I said,well, that's where all the good
(15:44):
stuff happens.
And she kind of had that youknow, aha moment of like, oh
yeah, like hadn't really thoughtabout it that way, but you know
it, at the end of the day,growth is not always a linear
process and it certainly doesn'tfeel easy.
But I think that's part of whyit's so rewarding, because it's
like you said it's, the prize onthe other side is being able to
(16:05):
come out the other side andhave the ability to really you
know, I love to use the phrasinghow I show up in the world for
myself and for others, because Ithink that, again, as women, so
many of us are socialized tofocus on how we show up in the
world for others, are socializedto focus on how we show up in
(16:28):
the world for others, and Iactually think it is just as
important in fact more so toshow up well for ourselves,
because I would argue that if Iam not showing up for myself,
that I am not showing up wellfor you, even if I think I am.
Jenny Benitez (16:39):
Oh, oh, yes, absolutely.
You know, I never again.
It's all these epiphanies thathappened around me turning 40,
by the way, like when I wasleading up to turning 40, I had
all these like really majorepiphanies and I kept saying
people, I'm like it's becauseI'm turning 40.
Becky Upchurch (16:53):
It's like the golden age for me it's a good
period of time.
Jenny Benitez (16:57):
I will tell you like I don't know why everyone's
so scared.
This is awesome, this iswonderful.
But you know, it's true, you go, go through these periods where
you know you, you arequestioning yourself, you're
questioning what you're doingand it is that uncomfortability
that really does push you intothe next level.
And I'll use the podcast as anexample too, because the first,
(17:21):
the first, like this it's funny.
Funny because I know otherpodcasters that do the exact
same thing the first fewepisodes, or first like I don't
know couple months of episodesthat I would post, episodes, I
would literally like post itinto my system and then I would
like slam the computer and likerun away from the computer
because I was like so nervous ofthe fact that I'm putting
(17:41):
myself out there and I'veactually had people say that to
me like I could never do thatbecause you're really putting
yourself out there and it'sinteresting because I don't.
In the beginning it was scary.
And now I'm like if I had neverpushed that door open, I
wouldn't have met like you andall these phenomenal women that
are coming onto the podcast andI wouldn't be able to help share
(18:04):
everyone's stories and all this, this great work that
everybody's doing.
Because you know, you yourselfjust said, like you originally
were focusing, you weren'tfocused just on women, but now
you are, and it's so crucial,especially for today's day and
age, for us to have a reallystrong sense of ourselves and
like what's driving us.
Because a really strong senseof ourselves and like what's
(18:28):
driving us because there's somuch noise because of social
media that it it honestly isscary to think about the amount
of people that get lost becauseof what they're seeing online.
Becky Upchurch (18:35):
Absolutely, and you kind of touched on that.
You know, approaching 40, you'recoming into 40.
And I hear that from a lot ofwomen that, like you know, I did
start to feel like I wasgetting more confident in my
forties, but, you know, maybestill have some work to do, but
I definitely think there issomething about turning 40.
And you know, I go back andforth about is it that whole?
You know, as we get older andwe get wiser, hopefully we learn
(18:57):
some things and we realize whatmatters and what doesn't.
But I also think that that maybe kind of the age yet to where
we start to see that thenarrative that we've been sold
our whole lives has some flaws.
And I think about, you know,growing up and it's like, oh,
you know, for me it was like goto school and get a good job,
(19:18):
and it's like, you know, it'slike find a guy, get married,
have a family and and how many,you know, women either end up
not going down that path becausethey don't find the partner, or
their life isn't, or they takethat path and it's like, okay,
I'm doing the things, I'mchecking the boxes and checking
the boxes.
And it's kind of like you'realways waiting for something,
for what comes on the other side, and then nothing comes.
(19:40):
And I think by the time you hit40, you're like I just like I'm
at 40.
Like when's it coming?
Like, you know, it's one thingwhen I'm 20.
And it's like, well, I've got along way to go.
And then you hit 40.
And you're like I'm, this islike half my life, maybe more.
You know, come on what?
Like where's the prize, where'sthe, where's the other side of?
And I think that's when westart realizing that you know,
(20:03):
life isn't a bunch of checkboxesto get us to a destination.
I remember when I was a teenager, a friend of mine had this book
and it was called the Journeyis the Destination.
Right, and I just love thatphrase and it stuck with me for
my whole life.
That we think about, we'redoing all of these things to get
to a destination.
The destination is death.
(20:25):
So if you're doing all of thisstuff to get to the end, well,
what happens at the end is thatwe all die.
So, rather than working,working, working to get to the
destination, I feel like we needto start focusing on the
journey right, and we don't haveto wait till we're 40 to do
that.
We can start doing thatwhenever.
Jenny Benitez (20:44):
You kind of like blew my mind a little bit just
now with what you just saidbecause I this is.
So let me back up for a secondin my head because I get that
really excited.
I had similar upbringing.
Was like go to school, go tocollege, get a job.
For me it was like get acorporate job.
You need to make money,stability, get a pension, if you
(21:08):
can do it Climb the ladder,work 80 hours a week, kill
yourself for the job.
That's what you're supposed todo.
You're supposed to killyourself for the job.
And I did kill myself for thejob, like I was.
I was the girl who got up andwas in the office at seven and
then didn't leave until seven atnight, like that was like, and
I was proud of it, and I wore myburnout like a badge of honor,
(21:28):
like this is great, this is whatI'm supposed to be doing.
Becky Upchurch (21:31):
And I will tell you that is one of my biggest
pet peeves in life, cause Ithink far too many women do that
and I'm like let's stopnormalizing that.
Oh, oh, we have to.
Jenny Benitez (21:40):
You know, and what's crazy is that the agency
that I had joined when I wasfresh out of college, they
actually like advocated forburnout.
And they literally used to say,like this was what I was told
when I was hired this is yourfirst project that you're
working on, XYZ.
Here you go, like, handed methe stuff I have no idea what,
(22:03):
what's what and then it was like, yeah, we like to do trial by
by fire.
And I was like, Okay, and Ididn't know what that meant, but
that was my first learning.
And then that was, I was withthem for about four and a half
years, roughly.
Well, I took that attitude withme when I left and for a lot of
(22:25):
years I was like, well, if youcan't succeed at this, I don't
know what to tell.
Like, and I was not like apleasant.
I was pleasant to work with,but not really because I was one
of those people that was like,oh, you have time to take lunch.
Well, then, you have more timefor more projects.
Like I should give you morework to do, Like that was the
mentality and it's it's sohorrendous because it took me a
(22:45):
really long time.
I don't think I even got past ituntil I was like early 30s, and
then I was like this is not howyou're supposed to be working
with people, and it took me manyyears to to pull back from that
, and I still know people tothis day that still work in that
way.
And I'm like you don't have todo that, though.
Like, why do we feel the needto do that?
(23:06):
There's that and there's alsothis underlying pressure for
women to, like attack each otherin the workplace and I don't
mean physically, you know what Imean Like, oh, why I can't help
.
I can't, you know, advocate formy fellow female colleagues,
because then there's not enoughfor me.
Like that's not really, that'snot there.
Like that, actually, thatrhetoric is set up for us to be
(23:27):
like haggling with each other,when we should really be trying
to elevate each other and lifteach other up.
Becky Upchurch (23:33):
Yeah, that's a narrative that is perpetuated in
our culture so deeply that youknow there's not a lot of space
at the table.
Yep, you know, and I love theexpression that people talk
about.
You know, instead of trying todetermine who is going to get
the last seat at the table, whydon't we just go out and buy a
bigger table?
Yeah, and I think about youknow.
(23:53):
There's the story of somebodyasking Ruth Bader Ginsburg well,
when is it going to be enough,when is it going to be enough to
have you know what is enoughwomen on the court?
And she said when it's all ofthem?
And the person was appalled bythat and she was like, but it's
funny, nobody was appalled whenit was just men, but the idea of
something being all female is,like, shocking and counter
(24:14):
counter which tells you what ourculture perpetuates, right?
And so I think it is that ideaof if I'm a woman, especially in
like a corporate space wheremaybe it's a male-dominated
space, and I believe thatthere's a scarcity situation.
I think a lot of us are taughtwe have to compete in order to
(24:34):
get that spot.
I will tell you for me, when Isee women who are very
competitive and very combativewith other women, what I feel is
I look at that person and I sayit must be difficult to feel
that insecure.
Yes, because I think that whenyou are truly confident and you
truly know what you bring to thetable, you don't have to
(24:58):
compete with anyone.
I always make the joke, youknow.
I said you know, if somebodyever asked me what I bring to
the table, I just look at themand say I bring the damn table
Because I I'm going to go into asituation confident, knowing
what I have to offer.
And I think it ties back to thatidea of saying no.
(25:18):
You know, I had somebody askedme recently about saying no at
work and you know you can't sayno at work.
And I think so many of us thinkwe can't say no at work Because
, again, we think our value istied to how many hours we work
or how much burnout.
But I would argue that, youknow, I remember many years ago
I had a colleague that workedinsane hours and it was like, oh
(25:40):
, this person works like 12 hourdays.
And finally I said to somebodyI said I don't know that person,
I don't know their situation.
I said but has anybody alsoever asked like maybe it's not
that that person is verydedicated, maybe it's that that
person is very inefficient,because that could also be true
right.
But we just assume, oh, you work12 hour days, six days a week,
(26:01):
you must be really dedicated.
Well, not necessarily.
So I think, just kind ofquestioning these narratives
that we've been fed, that webought into and like, hey, maybe
I don't need to work 80 hours aweek because what I accomplish
in 40 is better than what otherpeople do at 80.
Right, and building thatconfidence in ourselves and
(26:23):
recognizing what we bring to thetable, whether it be in work,
in relationships, as a parent,as a friend, and really trusting
that who we are and the waythat we show up is our value and
that we don't have to jumpthrough hoops to get approval to
define our worth, I um I hadgone on like a bit of a you know
(26:46):
, professional journey, as Imentioned, and it's very in line
with, like what you're saying.
Jenny Benitez (26:50):
And it started when I was about like 37 ish or
whatever and, um, I had gottenput on this project and I didn't
have capacity for it.
I said I was like I can'tsupport this project, like I
don't, I don't have enough time,I can't do it, I have too much
other things.
And um, I got put on it anyway.
I all of a sudden just was onit.
(27:10):
I was just getting emails andthey were like Jenny, do this?
And I was like I said I can'tdo this.
So it was like I said no, butthey didn listen.
So I went through this wholeperiod for about three weeks or
so where I was working 12, 15hour days and my kids were very
little at the time.
And you know, my my husband,bless him was he.
(27:33):
He had slowed down his work solike he had stopped working
during COVID and then he wasstay at home dad so that I could
do my profession, like he knewhow important it was to me.
And so he was.
He was handling the kids and Iwould come out to like make
breakfast and do baths orwhatever, and then I would go
back into my office and it waslike constant because I worked
from home.
(27:53):
And at the end of the threeweeks I was like had this
epiphany, almost breakdownmoment of like I haven't,
haven't seen my kids and theylook bigger now and I lost three
weeks.
I'm like can't get it back.
And after that happened Irealized I was like that was the
thing that really pushed me tobe like I have to stop this now,
(28:15):
because for me it was my kids.
For other people it might besomething else.
That is your moment of like.
I'm sacrificing myself for myjob.
But at the end of the day, hereI'm just a number, I am
completely replaceable, and justkilling yourself for your job
is not really going to get youanywhere.
(28:35):
Because if you were to dietoday, if you are one of these
folks, that's a workaholic likehow I used to be.
If you were to die today, yourjob is going to get you anywhere
.
Because if you were to dietoday, if you are one of these
folks, that's a workaholic likehow I used to be.
If you were to die today, yourjob is going to be posted within
24 hours, 48 hours, they'regoing to hire someone to replace
you.
They're not going to doanything.
So after I had this period whereI was like crazy at work, I
found out through anothercolleague that a former
(28:59):
colleague of mine had died.
She was only in her early 40s.
She worked herself to death.
She was a workaholic,constantly in the office, didn't
go to the doctor when she wassick, would just
over-the-counter medicines, andby the time she died she was
again early 40s about where I'mat right now and she was leaving
(29:21):
her house and she dropped deadon her front lawn because she
had had a urinary tractinfection that backed up into
her kidneys and then she endedup going septic.
She never addressed it, shejust kept powering through and I
found out about that and then,after what I had just gone
through and I was like I have tomake a change here.
(29:42):
So at my current place of work,when I was interviewing I said I
was like I don't do travel andI need to be able to from 330 to
430, like block my calendarbecause I have to get my kids
off the bus from school.
I'm like I'm not going to rushit, I'm not going to rush them.
(30:05):
I'm not going to compromisemyself Like I need to set these
boundaries.
Becky, I, for the first sixmonths of the job, had to
consistently remind people Icannot get on a call with you
from 330 to 430.
That was probably the hardestthing Professionally as a, as a
woman, as a mother, like havingto constantly tell people no,
but I can meet you tomorrowmorning or we can meet earlier
(30:26):
in the day, but I cannot do it.
At that time it was, it wasvery difficult and it was
because of that constant need tohave to tell them like, no,
can't do it, you know.
And then I even had a recentsituation where, even though all
this history that I have and Iknow that setting the boundary
is important where I was askedto do something work related,
(30:47):
travel and I had to say I waslike I can't do that, my kids
are young.
Like I have to be here I.
This is the line that I'vedrawn and I'm sticking with it.
And even with all the knowledgethat I have, I still am
uncomfortable with it.
I do it, but I'm uncomfortable.
Becky Upchurch (31:03):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that's the thing we we
sometimes underestimate howuncomfortable we're going to
feel, but again, when it's, it'sso normalized to say yes and
it's so normalized to.
Oh well, you don't want to bethe person at work who's not the
team player.
You don't want to be the personat work who's not the team
player.
You don't want to be the oneperson who's not staying late or
(31:26):
the one person who's not in themeeting.
But again, I think a lot of thatbalance is.
You know, the fact that youwere very upfront about this is
what I'm willing to do and notdo.
I think there are some peoplewho would say, well, I can't do
that, I won't get the job.
Well, you're proof that that'suntrue, right, right.
(31:47):
And so I think the moreevidence we can collect that
some of these things that wehave been taught to believe are
just simply untrue, the easierit becomes to take the chances
and to start.
You know, I always give theanalogy of it's like a muscle.
You know, the more you dosomething, the more comfortable
you get with it.
I joke all the time that myfavorite word is no, and you
know I love saying yes to peopleand things.
But the reason I love saying nois because I fundamentally
(32:11):
believe that every time you sayno to something that you do not
want whether it be something youdon't want in your life,
something you don't want to door something that does not serve
you it creates space for sayingyes to things that do.
Jenny Benitez (32:25):
Oh, I like that.
Becky Upchurch (32:27):
I feel like everything in life is a balance
right.
So if I'm saying yes to fivethings I don't want to do,
that's five things I do want todo, that I now have to say no to
right.
(32:47):
So it's like I have to say noto my things to make space for
your things.
Or I say no to your things orsociety's things or whoever's,
and then those are things that Ican now bring in that I want to
cultivate my life.
Jenny Benitez (32:52):
I haven't heard of it, I haven't heard that
articulated in that way before,but that makes a lot of sense,
because if you're saying yes toeveryone else's things like if I
, if I only have Saturday andSunday free to myself and I'm
saying yes to everybody else,that means that I have no time
for my things, which I will sayI did know, like this past year
I was making it, I was making itlike a very serious mission of
(33:16):
mine to be trying not to do that, you know, and putting myself
in positions where I was likecommitting to things that I knew
I was going to be upset aboutor frustrated with.
And one thing that I did committo is that on the weekends that
I am having time where I amjust like hanging out with my
family, and that sounds like, ohwell, jenny, just like hang out
(33:38):
with your family.
But I have always had thisthing where I couldn't sit down
and relax and watch a moviebecause I have to do the dishes
or I have to clean the law, Ihave to do the laundry, I have
to fold the laundry, oh, but ifI don't fold the laundry now,
but then I have to get dinner onthe table and if I get don't
get dinner on the table, that'sgoing to push baths back.
And then if I and it was likethis constant like pressing of,
(34:01):
like, oh no, you have toconstantly be doing all the
things and again, only in thepast year have I started to
really recognize, like you don'thave to do, that you can
actually sit down and like playgames with your kids and go in
the pool.
What the play games with theirkids?
And go in the pool what theBecky?
We moved into our home in 2022.
(34:23):
And the first year that we werehere where the pool was open
no-transcript, because I wasconstantly working, and then I
would get off of work and Iwould start dinner right away
and then it would be bath timeand it would be this and it
would just snowball and Iliterally, and somebody,
somebody asked me oh, you mustbe in the pool all the time and
(34:45):
I was like no, I'm not.
This is terrible.
I'm like I'm no fun.
This is horrible.
What we talked, this ishorrible.
We talked about.
You know there's obviously, youknow saying no is an issue Fear
and guilt for women.
You know that's like loads tounpack but, like in your work,
(35:09):
what are you seeing?
Fear of and guilt with the most.
Becky Upchurch (35:19):
So the fear is rejection, and we don't
necessarily see it as rejection,but that's how I see it and I
think it's really again.
It really goes back, so so sofar, into, not even just for
women, how we're socialized, butback to, like, the origins of
human survival.
When you think about how peoplesurvived and you couldn't
survive on your own right, youhad to be part of a community,
(35:41):
you had to be part of a groupand if you were living in a
community and that communityostracized you, you most likely
weren't going to survive on yourown in early days of you know
existence.
Obviously, now you know life isvery different.
But when you think back to likehow we evolved in community
with one another, we arefoundationally designed to live
(36:05):
in community with other people.
And so, even though in 2024,when we're having this
conversation, if one of myfriends ostracizes me, it's not,
I'm not going to die from it.
Right, I'm not at.
You know, it's not like, oh,I've been thrown out into the
wilderness on my own with nofood or water or weapons and
there's wild animals ready toeat me.
(36:26):
That's not the scenario, unlessI'm doing something really
weird with my friends and itgoes awry.
Things is, oh my gosh, I'm indanger, I am going to lose that
community.
I'm going to lose thatconnection, like we are wired
for human connection.
So the fear is really thatrejection, that if I say no, if
(36:52):
I set this boundary, and thatperson gets upset because you
know, again, most of us, ifwe've set boundaries and we've
said no, have had the experienceof somebody kind of bristling
at it.
Yeah, so then it's like, ohwell, I know they're going to
get upset with me and then whathappens?
So it's that fear of rejection,it's that fear of losing that
community and not being acceptedand not being a part of things.
(37:16):
The other piece of it, you know,the guilt, I think, goes back
to our identities.
You know, just listening to youtalk about, you know, coming
home and not using the poolbecause it's like, well, I've
got to get dinner started and wedon't want to mess up the bath
schedule.
And that makes perfect sense tome, hearing you say it, and I
bet you it would make perfectsense to every woman listening
to this conversation.
(37:37):
And yet I think the average manwould be like, well, why don't
you just give the bath leave?
We're like, well, why doesdinner have to be at a certain
time?
Right, and not because theydon't care, but because they
were socialized differently.
Yes, they see their roles, likeI'm.
I don't know your husband atall, but I imagine he probably
(37:58):
doesn't sit there and thinkabout what time the bath and the
dinner, and it's just not howmen are programmed or wired or
raised in our society as a whole.
And so I think that's where theguilt comes in.
It's I have to and that's youknow.
You'd asked earlier about kindof signs that maybe we need to
(38:18):
set some boundaries, and one ofthe things you know, if you find
yourself using language eitherto friends or to yourself, I
have to, I need to, right, I dothat one a lot.
It's like, oh well, I need todo this thing and it's like do I
really need that or am I justusing that verbiage Because it's
something that I don't actuallywant to do and maybe it's
(38:40):
somebody else's stuff or stuffthat I've made my stuff that I
don't actually want to be mystuff.
Jenny Benitez (38:45):
It's um, I haven't talked through any of
this in a really long time andit's interesting to refresh my
memory on all of it Because I'vebeen on the journey for so long
.
But the the socialization is isinteresting to observe between
little boys and little girls,and I see it with my kids and as
(39:07):
much as, like my husband and Iwere very active communicators.
So we will, we talk our kidsthrough everything, even when
they get in trouble, like ifthey, you know, yell at them or
whatever.
We talk that we talk to them,post and we're like okay, this
is what happened, let's, youknow, talk through this and
everything.
So they're all getting raisedpretty similar, like that's all
(39:29):
happening the right way.
But for some reason, for somereason, my son feels that he
needs to be the in charge, likethe leader, and I know that he's
picking things up for myhusband, which is very cute to
see.
Like him taking on this, I'mthe man role.
But in my house it's a bit ofan issue because I also am
(39:53):
teaching the girls like you areleaders, to like we're leaders
here, we're not followers, andthe the amount of stress this
causes my son because he wantsso badly to be like this is it,
and this is how it is.
And the girls are like no, Iwill not do that, and and.
(40:15):
So now we're teaching themtools to like work with someone
in that scenario, like, okay,well, if he doesn't want to do
this or he's not listening toyou, because they'll come to me
and be like, oh, he's notlistening or he's not, you know,
doing what I'm asking him to doI tell them like, well, you
know, it's okay to move on Likeyou might want him to, but if he
(40:38):
doesn't want to, like, you canonly control yourself.
You can't control other people.
That was also a big lesson forme that I had to learn.
And so now, like I'm trying to,I'm trying everything.
Let me tell you, becky,everything that I learned in the
past like five years.
I'm trying to make sure that mykids get all that now at seven
and eight, because for a reallylong time, I would get
incredibly stressed out aboutwhat other people were doing and
(41:01):
the need to like control andand you know, be like well, I'll
set all this up and I'll dothis.
And you know, just show up andand and me like articulate, like
having to make sure everythingwas running exactly how I saw.
It's taken like years for me tolike, let go, years for me to
like, let go of that and to letgo of that ego control where I'm
like, oh, I'm all the way atthe top of the tower now and I'm
(41:24):
in control of all the thingsand it can't run without me,
just can't, and.
But it can run without me,everyone else can do it, I don't
have to be stressed out and I,you know, could get like less
wrinkles this way.
Becky Upchurch (41:41):
The world will keep on turning right If we
don't show up for a day, and Ithink that that's such an
important point, as is that ideaof control, because I will tell
you.
That is one of the things that Iwant everybody to understand
about setting a boundary.
I think there are so manypeople that have been taught or
(42:01):
have somehow learned or come tounderstand boundaries as a
boundary is something I do toget another person to behave a
certain way or stop behaving acertain way, a certain way, and
that is not, in fact, what aboundary is.
And if you set a boundary,thinking I'm going to say or do
(42:26):
this thing, so that the otherperson just stop right there,
Because you can set a boundaryand tell that person I don't
like it when you do this.
And if you do this, here'sgoing to be your consequence,
quote, unquote, and that personcan smile and say OK, and then
just keep doing that thing overand over and over again.
And so we have to really thinkabout what do I need for myself
(42:46):
to be at peace?
What do I need for myself?
Again, it goes back to how do Iwant to show up for myself and
in the world, and whatboundaries do I need to set to
show up in that way?
How do I want to make peace inthis situation and really make
it about us, not in a selfishway, but in a I am the only
(43:08):
person I have control over way.
And I am the worst that I willremember things, and it's like I
remember part of the quote butI don't remember who said it.
So there's a quote that I'mfairly certain was said either
by Elizabeth Gilbert or BreneBrown, and the gist of the quote
is about having control.
And it's like you know,thinking that if I just do these
(43:30):
things, that I can, you know,get control back or I can have
control.
But what we don't realize is wenever had control, we just had
anxiety.
I think that's such a perfectthing for so many women is we
spend so much time trying tokind of manipulate the situation
, trying to be the overseer ofall things, to streamline all
(43:54):
things, to take on all thethings to make sure they go the
way we want them to, to makesure things go smoothly,
thinking that if we do all thethings and we do all the things
right, then everything will goexactly as we had planned and we
will have control.
But we never have control.
We just are creating anxietyfor ourselves.
And I feel like we see that somuch with women, where it's like
(44:17):
why do I feel anxious all thetime?
It's like because you feel likeyou are responsible for the
entire world.
And I will never forget, manyyears ago I was having a
conversation with someone and wewere kind of talking about
feeling the weight of the world,and the person was like I don't
know why you feel like you'reresponsible.
And basically what I said tothem.
I said you know, it's like thatline from the Bible those to
(44:40):
whom much has been given, muchis expected.
And I said I feel like I'msomebody who's been given a lot
and I'm somebody who's beenblessed a lot, and so I feel
like a lot, like I owe a lot inreturn, if that makes sense,
because I've been given so much.
It is incumbent upon me to, to,you know, step up.
And I said you know, andsometimes it just feels like I
(45:03):
have the weight of the world onmy shoulders, like I'm
responsible for everything andeveryone all the time, and I
just remember the person sayingwow, that sounds really
exhausting, yeah, and I thinkabout how many women you know
and I was, I think, in my 20swhen that conversation happened
but I think how many womencouldn't be having that
conversation in their 20s ortheir 30s or their 40s.
(45:26):
You know there are women who areway past their 40s who I think
still, you know, struggle withsome of this, and it really is.
Take all of those things thatwe've been taught and all of
those assumptions that we makeabout how we can maintain
control and how our being moreinvolved gives us more safety or
gives us more of the outcomeswe want, and it's scary to kind
(45:51):
of acknowledge that that mightnot be true.
Like I can show up fully, I cantry to manipulate the situation
and I may not get what I want,but I think it can also be very
freeing to realize and that youknow what.
I can just show up the way Iwant to, not the way I think I
have to.
Jenny Benitez (46:08):
Well, because the reality of it is is that if
you're not showing upauthentically, then you're
creating a whole course that isnot really meant to be.
And if you're not showing upauthentically and you're showing
up how you think you need toshow up and you're controlling
things how you think that theyshould be controlled, then
you're not leaving yourself thatspace for the what.
(46:33):
If it aligns for me and youknow, when you show up.
When I started really reallybeing myself and really being
true to like what does Jennywant here?
How is Jenny feeling about thissituation?
When I started doingmeditations daily and
affirmations I have my kidsdoing affirmations every night
like a Becky.
(46:53):
It's like real here.
Without all those tools of likeaffirmations, visualizations,
meditation, like journaling,reading, you know, expanding the
mind a little bit, like,without all those tools I would
be in a.
I don't even know what place Iwould be in right now.
I'd still probably be in thishouse but, like, mentally, I
(47:17):
don't think I would be in a goodheadspace because when I was on
the path where I wascontrolling everything, I wasn't
in a, I wasn't in a goodheadspace and my kids used to
tell me, like mommy, like why doyou look so sad all the time.
Why are you always mad?
Mommy screams a lot.
Mommy, you want to?
One of the girls say to me theone time and it like crushed me,
(47:38):
as children's words usually doshe said something to the effect
of like we're not, we're notgood enough, that's why you yell
at us, yep.
And I was like, oh God, and itwas in that brief time that I
told you where I was like reallystressed out and my work was
(47:59):
like totally out of whack and Ihad no boundary set and I was
doing all the things.
Well, I was showing up as likea terrible human person, in my
opinion, in comparison to what Icould be, because I wasn't
filling my cup and I was justtaking, taking, taking and
filling everything else foreverybody else and trying to
control things, and it did nogood for me or my family.
(48:24):
So it's it's incrediblyimportant for women to to get on
board with this and reallystart looking into, in my
opinion, coaching and partneringwith somebody and I mean I have
accountability partners that Ireach out to when I'm feeling
like kind of low and I'm likehey, like you want to chat real
quick, like I can do, and mostof it's.
(48:44):
What's really funny is likenine times out of 10.
They reply and they're like, ohmy god, me too, I really need
to talk, like let's just likeright.
So really none of us are.
This is not unique to me, thisis not unique to Becky.
This is all of us going throughthis.
We're all in the same boat.
We need to start reaching outto each other and supporting
each other and talking to eachother.
(49:05):
And then Becky has thiswonderful skill set.
She could actually guide you inwhat tools to use, because
there is a lot of misinformationout there.
So you know, it's not just like, oh, you know, you're just
thinking happy thoughts, likethere's a lot more to it.
You know, like you ever seethose.
It actually kind of irritatesme now when I see posts that are
(49:26):
just like you know, think happyand that simple, and I'm like
well, it's not that simple.
Becky Upchurch (49:37):
It's part of it, but it's not all of it.
Well, it's funny.
I'm I'm chuckling because my mybest friend and I were having a
conversation the other dayabout toxic positivity, um, and,
and one of the things that Itake great pride in and I was
talking about with somebody elselast week was, um, one of the
best compliments I got, um as acoach from someone was you know
what I like about you?
They're like you're a lifecoach, but you're not one of
those life coaches that's justlike oh, everything's wonderful,
(50:00):
life is amazing.
And I was like, yeah, because,like, life can be really hard
and that's the thing ispretending that things are not
difficult.
Does it make them better?
No, better is saying thissituation feels difficult.
How do I navigate it?
And how do I navigate it in away that feels better for me,
(50:20):
not like well, I'm just going topretend it's great until it
becomes great Like there arethings in life that are going to
feel difficult, and that's justkind of how life works.
I think sometimes people havethis idea that, oh, when you
figure things out and you getlife together and you get tools,
that everything is great allthe time and it's like, no, you
just have tools to navigate whenthings are great and when
(50:42):
things are not.
And I think to your point, youknow the willingness to talk
about these things, thewillingness to be open, to be
present.
You know, I remember years andyears ago talking to my sister
and I was supposed to go on adate and I had gotten stood up
and I just had like I didn'tthink that was a real thing that
(51:03):
happened.
I thought it was like somethingthat happened in the movies,
like a bad plot line on a sitcom.
You know, I was like crying,not even over the person, I just
I think it was like I just wasso shocked and hurt and and just
all the things, and I call andI'm it was like I just was so
shocked and hurt and and justall the things, and I call and
I'm talking to my sister aboutit and she's like, you know, I
just wouldn't think about itanymore, just like go home, get
(51:23):
some rest, cause I had pulledover in like a McDonald's
parking lot and crying andtalking to my sister and I said
I'm going to do that.
I'm going to like delete hisnumber and not think about it
anymore.
I was like as soon as I go liveand talk about it to strangers
on the internet.
And she was like, I'm sorry,what are you about to do?
And I was like, well, here'sthe thing.
I was like this is really sucky, yeah, and I didn't think it
(51:45):
was something that happeneduntil my then business coach at
the time, who used to be adating coach, talked about what
my dating coach clients wouldget, stood up and I was like,
wait, this is like a thing thathappens all the time, like I had
no idea and how many peopledon't know that and how many
people need to hear this message?
And and it was not, you know,going on camera with cry face
(52:09):
not my finest moment, I'm sure,but also the willingness to
share our experiences.
And obviously it's a little bitdifferent when you do this work
professionally and I I'm a firmbeliever of as a coach you are
asking people to be veryvulnerable and open with you,
and so, while certainly it's notthe same relationship, going in
(52:30):
the opposite direction, I dothink that, as coaches, we need
to be willing to share thingsand not always put our best face
forward and to acknowledge thatlike hey, like, my life is not
perfect.
No one's life is perfect.
I always argue.
If you have somebody that tellsyou that everything in their
life is perfect, I personallywould be very suspect.
Jenny Benitez (52:51):
Yeah, that's actually pretty suspicious, it's
not possible, and I love that.
I love what you just said too,because I think that's actually
pretty suspicious.
Yeah, it's not possible, and Ilove that.
I love what you just said too,because I think that's also part
of the apprehension with folkslook seeking out coaches because
, well, one they're like a lifecoach, like what, what kind of,
what kind of dummy am I?
I can't figure this out.
It's like okay, first of all,everybody needs help.
(53:14):
Like raise your hand, likelet's do this, like you want to
knock this out of the park, likefind somebody, like Becky, or
find Becky, and you know.
So that that's one thing.
The vulnerability factor andsharing the stories, I mean
clearly that's what the podcast,that's what this podcast was
founded on.
It was founded on the fact thatI was really struggling as a
mom and as a professionalcombined and I was like there
(53:36):
has to be other women goingthrough the same thing I'm going
to.
I want to start to affectchange.
I want people to hear thesestories.
I want people to be in touchwith other women, to hear other
women's stories, and there'squite a few guests that actually
have come on that have gonethrough some significant,
massive trauma and they actuallyturned it into something where
I'm like you know what?
I'm going to?
Share my story.
I'm going to help other people.
(53:56):
A lot of women are doing it nowand they're coming to this
podcast, which is like blowingmy mind, because that's what
this was created for.
I just did a.
Yeah, I mean, I just did a.
I just did an episode, you know, recently and like the next day
one of the guests was one ofthe guests for the fall was kind
of said to me.
She was like I'm so glad youposted that episode.
(54:18):
It was so raw and essentiallyon the episode, I like kind of
broke down a little bit.
But I also I said I was likeI'm having a tough time and I
don't want anyone to get theperception that this is easy.
Like I work full time, I podcastalmost full time and then I
have my kids and my husband andmy house and like everything
(54:39):
else that I'm supposed to becarrying, you know to do, and
I'm like it's not easy, you know, and I don't want anyone to
ever get the misperception thatit's like, oh, everything's
perfect and this is like no,hell, no, no, definitely not.
So I'm so glad you said thatbecause your, your style is
what's sorely needed, becauseit's real.
(54:59):
This is real.
You're not sitting here sayingeverything's perfect and
sunshine and rainbows coming outof everything all the time.
No, it's a real way to approachlife and you're providing the
tools for folks to actually beable to, like you said, manage
things as they come.
For folks to actually be ableto, like you said, manage things
(55:21):
as they come.
Becky Upchurch (55:23):
Becky, I could probably talk to you for like
six more hours, I just want youto know.
Jenny Benitez (55:25):
I know, I know I just saw the time and I was like
, oh my gosh, listeners, I'mgoing to link all of Becky's
things, all her content,wherever you can reach Becky,
it's going to be linked in thedescription of the podcast.
Becky, thank you so much forcoming on.
Becky Upchurch (55:41):
I greatly appreciate it, and I think the
listeners will appreciate it.
Thank you for having me.
This was so much fun and I feellike we have a lot of synergy,
and so it's always good to talkto somebody like minded, who
it's like.
Jenny Benitez (55:50):
I get excited.
Well, listeners, thank you somuch for joining us on this
episode and we'll see you on thenext one.
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