Kristen Anderson-Lopez: Layers, Laughter & Living Intentionally

Episode Transcript
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Lisa Hopkins (00:01):
This is the Stop Time Podcast.
I'm your host, lisa Hopkins,and I'm here to engage you in
thought-provoking, motivationalconversations around practicing
the art of living in the moment.
I'm a certified life coach andI'm excited to dig deep and
offer insights into embracingwho we are and where we are at.
So my next guest is a creativeforce whose songs have become

(00:27):
the soundtrack of a generation.
She's an Oscar, grammy and Emmyaward winning songwriter whose
work spans Disney, pixar, marvel, broadway and beyond.
In collaboration with herhusband and creative partner,
robert Lopez, she co-wroteFrozen and Frozen 2, including
the iconic and unforgettable Letit Go, as well as Coco's

(00:50):
Remember Me.
Her credits includeWandaVision's Agatha All Along
and the Hula musical series Uphere On stage.
She co-wrote In Transit, thefirst ever all acapella musical
on Broadway, and adapted Frozenfor the Broadway stage.
Her work has earned Drama Desk,outer Critics Circle and
Lucille Lortel nominations.
She's a champion of new voicesand a true creative visionary

(01:14):
and my new friend already.
I'm honored to introduceKristen Anderson-Lopez.
Welcome.

Kristen Anderson-Lopez (01:21):
Thank you.
Thank you for that.
It's funny.
On the elevator I went out andwalked before our Zoom today and
on the elevator I stepped inand there was a landscaper going
up to an apartment and he had at-shirt that said let it grow,
inc.
And it seemed to be referencingmy songs.

(01:43):
There was just enough that waslike snowy about it that I was
like did they name their companyas a pun on our lyric?

That's funny, Curious.
I always like to know like,what's the rhythm of your day?
It seems ordinary to you, but Ifind context so interesting
because if your context is onlythis is what she's done.

Oh, totally.

Who cares?
I mean no offense, yeah, yeah,no, but do you know what I mean?
Like who?
Who are you now?
What's your day like, but youknow?
And and what's the rhythm ofyour life right now?

Um, uh, the rhythm of my life right now
is I'm I'm still a mom with kidsat home, I still have a
teenager with a couple of yearsleft to go, and so her rhythm
really dictates my rhythm, ourrhythm.
Um, in that our schedulerevolves around her, her school

(02:35):
schedule.
Her, like when I go to bed isabout like, when are we going to
get up?
What time does Annie have to beat school?
And you know, it's interestingbecause I do think that having
children gave us both, asartists, a lot of structure.
It just forced us to be like,okay, time means something, you

(02:59):
can't procrastinate all day andthen say like, well, right after
Seinfeld, um, like, time isreally important and it's finite
.
So our day starts often withwaking up to get one of us will
cook breakfast and sort of bethere to be a presence for her,
so she's not starting the day byherself.
Um, then we tend to build inour a workout, like either I,

(03:23):
either I do strength trainingand I try to walk with a friend,
or not a friend Bobby doestennis.
So exercise is in the morningand then we'll often dive in,
and either when we're working ona Disney project or an animated
project.
Often by noon.

(03:44):
We have a call, either threetimes a week or sometimes every
day, our team in the studio andwe'll talk about, like, what are
we tackling today?
Right now I'm in a tiny pause,so we are our own team and we
kind of have to say, well, whatare we tackling today?
Because we're working onsomething for the stage that I

(04:07):
don't think I'm allowed to fullyannounce.
So today we'll probably we'refinishing up a song that we will
send to our collaborators,probably this afternoon.
And then either it's like if wehit five, 36 o'clock and it's
time to start cooking dinner andour child comes home uh, who's

(04:32):
still home?
We also have a college age kidwho is a glorious source of
chaos.
You never know when she's goingto call or what, so, um, but
right now she's off at Brown, soshe weighs in when she weighs
in.
But either we'll cook dinnerand then usually go like what
are we going to watch?

(04:52):
Or we go to the theater to likeone to two times a week,
because we're Tony voters.

Okay.

And we're Oscar voters a week,
because we're Tony voters andwe're Oscar voters.
So we have a lot of content todigest and a lot of assignments
to hit.

Yeah, that's a big responsibility.
It's interesting.
As a creative, you know somepeople don't like to.
I've worked with writers, right, who don't want to see anything
else.
They're afraid of beinginfluenced or overwhelmed.
How do you guys feel about that, like, when you're in this
heavy season right, where you'resort of I mean, it's an
obligation, but it's also agreat service right to be a
voter in these areas?

(05:36):
Do you ever get, does itoverwhelm you for, like, how do
you stay clear for or for yourown work?

Oh, I think that seeing art is how
you're in the conversation,showing up to see like oh.
So that's how they turned allof those songs into Ann Juliet
or Love it.

(06:02):
Oh, look at, tonight we'regonna see John Proctor as the
villain.
So it's also spending time withdifferent artists, different
voices, getting that beautifulrestlessness when you see
something great and you're like,oh, I want to do that, Like how

(06:22):
did to do?
that Like yes, how did they dothat?
And what layers in myself wouldI need to to tap into to create
something of that tone or thatwith that message?
Or I think that even somethingthat didn't quite get there or

(07:00):
doesn't quite work or hasstructural problems is a really
great way to remind yourself oflike oh okay, your protagonist
like loses their agency and youkind of love a show, will laugh
in the wind when things are justhappening to them, instead of
the protagonist driving in.
Like you're reminding yourselfoh yeah, you know, in that act
two song is my protagonist Likewhat's my protagonist going for

(07:20):
in that act two song?
It's a great way to be indialogue with your own work.

Yeah, 100% Okay.
So you used the word luff justnow.

Yes, oh, luff in the wind, yes.

Which is a great word, but no one ever uses it.
I love words.
What is your?
I mean, you're a lyricist,right, You're a writer.
So how do you play with words?
Do they delight you?
Do you find a new one?

You know what it's actually it's I.
I think, like I don't knowwhere the word love came from.
It came from um, the fact thatI actually think the word recall
is a bit of a problem.
Like I, I think that I have alot of um, my file cabinets are
further away sometimes thanother people's and so I have to
look for it through visual.

(08:08):
Uh, like I, I I'm often visualor an intuitive.
Like I feel, like, yeah, myrelationship to language goes
through like one of those familycircus cartoons to to find what
I'm trying to say, and so I ama little nonlinear and creative
with language, because I knowthese words but and I can even,

(08:31):
like, feel them and taste themand I can't find it.
I think it's just a differentway of thinking.
And also I hear the rhythm oflanguage a lot.
I unconsciously rhyme.
I'll do it quite a bit in ourconversation.

That's awesome.
I love that.
I love words and I love when Ihear new words.
I get excited by it and if I'mhearing you correctly, I think
that you're saying it's funnybecause everybody's perception
is different.
So when you're, when you'retelling me about yourself and
your words and you've kind ofanalyzed it already and figured
it out and even in your brainstarting to go, maybe there was

(09:08):
maybe something's wrong withthat, it's funny because from
where I'm sitting, I'm like no,actually I was commenting on it
because you had beautiful accessto a word that beautifully
described something that I neverhear anyone use, use, and.
And then you went on to talkabout you know how you get it
and stuff, and the word thatjust kept coming into my head
was visceral.
It's visceral and you saidrhythm.

(09:29):
Then right, like you feel itright, it's got to connect.
That makes sense to me.
That's, that's the intuitionpiece, that's the piece where it
makes sense.
It's so cool.
I mean it's like a core.
As a choreographer, you know,you know I could do all sorts of
movements but somehow andthey're all nice or whatever,
and they all might tell thestory, but you can tell when

(09:50):
it's the right one, because itfeels right.

Yes, and there are those times that, and
usually it's when I'm talkingto somebody who I'm like,
intimidated by or trying toimpress, like when I'm not
aligned with my yes.
That I'll miss the mark and saylike horribly embarrassing
things sometimes and my husbanddoes like to call me Miss

(10:19):
Malaprop because I do get alittle creative with the
language.

Sometimes that's so funny, but the distinction
there sounds like it's becausethat usually happens when you're
feeling intimidated or notready or whatever, and then you
just kind of go on.
I mean, you operate at a prettyhigh energetic level, I can
feel it, and so it makes sensethat you fire quickly.
And you probably fire quicklyeven when you're feeling off.

Yes, totally yeah.
Um yeah, sometimes it's like umthe person is rushing around
the file cabinet and grabbingand their pins are flying
everywhere.

Oh, my God, that is awesome.
Wait that.
That brings me to remember Ihad a question I wanted to ask
you about.
You talked about.
I asked you what do people mostoften get wrong about you?
You said they think I'mstronger and more confident than
I am.
That's a layer, for sure, but Ihave other layers I'm trying to
bring into the room with me aswell.

(11:19):
That's interesting.
Talk to me about those layersand what layers you'd like to
bring more into the room.

the spectrum, but it's hard to get a
51-year-old man diagnosed atthis age.
He's a wonderful, alsowonderful creative force of

(11:56):
chaos in our lives.
But I really grew up withstrong mandates of like take
care of your brother.
The other day I was talkingwith a friend and I don't know
how this came up, but I was like, oh, I don't want them to think
I'm not trying.
And my friend was like nobodywill ever accuse you of not
trying hard, but I definitelyhave that Like, I'm showing up,
I'm engaging.

(12:18):
If you call on me or you ask aquestion, I'll raise my hand.
I'm first in the alphabet withAnderson.
A question I'll raise my hand.
Um, yeah, I'm first in thealphabet with anderson, so I was
used to always having to gofirst for things and act as if
and just be like.
You know, whenever I feelafraid, I hold my head erect, uh
, and whistle a happy tune um, Ireally took oscar hammerstein's

(12:41):
words to heart there, and so Ilead with like I'll lead the
team down the field and I thinkwhat I'm starting to learn to do
is also go.
You know, there's a part of methat would love to see five
other people do the thing beforeI go, that I don't have to have

(13:04):
so fearlessly brave and boldthat I am able to act like a
third child instead of the firstchild and let somebody else go
first.
Or like I'm trying to exerciseless of the I'm responsible

(13:26):
muscle and more of like the what.
What would happen if I, if I amquiet?
for a second and let somebodyelse take the lead and then
react.
It's not always easy.
I'm very programmed to.
Yeah, first child all over theplace yeah, yeah.

Well, it's interesting because I work a lot
with my clients on recognizingthat their strengths and that's
a strength, I mean I think youcould acknowledge that that's a
real strength so you've becomeknown for it, both from self
self and from others.
Ergo, you show up that way andyou could do it in your sleep
and what's happened is, you know, your strength has become a

(14:13):
default and what we work on is,you know, taking our strengths
and putting them in our toolboxso that they don't overshadow
and become our weakness, right,because there's so much,
absolutely so many other aspectsof you and shades of you, um,
to explore that could be fun andscary and edgy for you, but

(14:33):
also really wonderful and forothers as well.

Yeah, I used to be like like you know
where's the party where?
Like, put me around people allthe time, um, and I I am an
extrovert.
I do get energy from beingaround people, um, but I'm also
getting a.
I get a different kind ofenergy from being out in the
woods.
I really love the woods I getenergy from sunsets.

(15:02):
I don't know if it's like achakra thing, but there are
certainly lots of like, more,let's call it like.
Let's call it the wise goddessthere.
Like, the wise goddess isbetter off in the woods than at
a um, another opening party,another opening party.

(15:23):
Like I'm better off like,communing with the trees and
leaping over streams, to, tocultivate the, the deeper layers
, and and I'm excited about that, and I actually these days I
find that more fulfilling than.
I love an opening party.
I don't love wearing Spanx.

I love that you have this emergence of I call it
access.
I believe it's already there.
I think you would probablyagree that it's already there,
but it's been again overshadowedby you know that, the A-type,
whatever label you want howyou've been showing up and then,
as I said, especially if you'resuccessful at showing up that

(16:10):
way and that's the orbit thatyou live in, that is how people
expect you to be and it's easyto do, because you've always
done it and you know to be ableto wholeheartedly still go to
the opening, but go with thegoddess state of mind, as
opposed to saying I'm not goingto the opening, I'm going to go

(16:30):
to the woods, which is verybinary.
Right, you can go to the woodsat the gala.

Yes, do you know what I mean?
I mean that's right, absolutely, and that's like the work that
I'm doing every day these days.

Yeah, that's cool.

This new transition into whatever the
empty nester me is going to looklike, and my husband and I are
both having a really good time.
I think the pandemic brought alot of hard things, but it also
brought us to the woods,honestly yes, it slowed us down

(17:13):
and it got us off a a train thatwas running, that we were, we
were, we were like gotta stay onthe train, and I think that we
we both were given this gift ofof time in the woods with our
family and that opened up areasthat we were like Ooh, I'd like

(17:40):
to cultivate this more.

Yeah, yeah, no for sure.

I'm going to try not to talk in the
us.
That's another like.
So much of my life is connectedwith Bobby's and it's very easy
for me to find myself in usland because there is a lot of
what we do is connected.

Were you happy that I invited you and not both
of you?

You know I was interested.
I actually I made him listen tothe podcast on our way up to
the woods this weekend and Ithink he would love doing this
as well, and I think you would.
You'd see very different andcomplimentary energies.

Totally, it was.
It was really my instinct notto have you both together.
I would love to speak with himseparately.
You said you feel most alivewhen you're doing anything that
feels like playing.
So what does play mean to you?
What are the shades of play?
Since we're talking aboutshades these days, okay, there's
an aspect of unbridled joy.

There's an aspect of creativity.
There's an aspect of unbridledjoy.
There's an aspect of creativity.
There's an aspect ofnon-results, like results aren't
important, it's processoriented.

(18:59):
And you know that's not true.
Let's walk that back.
I want to pressure test thatbecause I actually think there's
a lot of play, like as a.
As a kid, I like literallycreated plays in my backyard and
there was a we were playing butwe were going towards a result,

(19:20):
like forcing all theneighborhood parents to watch
our insane version of Cinderellaor something.
So I actually think play can beresults oriented.
If the result is somethingyou're really looking forward to
and is aspirational, I thinkplay can happen alone or

(19:48):
together.
That sounds dirtier than itshould.

Only if you're thinking that way, Kristen.

Kristen Anderson-Lope (20:00):
Something about it.
You're so cute.
Yeah, there's something aboutit, you're so cute.
Yeah.
I think maybe the biggest thingis, with play, the
self-consciousness is out of theroom, like the
self-consciousness is taking asmoke break, and you are, you

(20:20):
know.
You're left just with all theother parts of you and not
censoring yourself.

Yeah, I love that.
Are we playing right now?

Uh, yeah , I think so, I think so too.
Yeah, I mean, I actually thinklong podcast interviews are a
form of improv.

Like.

I think of it.
It excites the improv piece ofme.
Um, because you know you'reyou're lobbing, you're lobbing
questions.
I'm trying to hit it back.
I'm saying things like myself-consciousness is taking a
smoke break.
I'm not a smoker yeah, oh,that's brilliant.

I love that.
Yeah, that's super cool.
And um, you taught.
You've been talking a lot abouttransition.
Well, what's a transition to?
What's the story you're tellingyourself in your head about
what transition means?
What does that evoke for you?

Well, so many of my friends are in the
sandwich years.
My parents are here.
I just moved them up to asenior assisted living facility,
but I worry about them and Iworry about my kids.
Like you said, the, um, thecan't go to sleep until they

(21:37):
come home, and um, and yetthere's going to be a moment in
2027 when we drop our secondchild at whatever school she
ends up in, and our schedulewill be different.

(21:59):
Do a show in the West end, orour ability to say we're going
to go live in LA and work withthe animators for four weeks
will be different.
So there's all kinds of freedomahead and yet, because I am a I

(22:20):
am a person fascinated withpsychology and what you do, I'm
also having conversations withBobby right now about, like,
let's be intentional about whatwe want to do with that freedom,
because it is easy with ourlives to take on a lot of

(22:40):
projects and then, once thetrains start going a metaphor I
used earlier, like you're onthat train until it opens and
you're not necessarily in chargeof when you're on that train,
like driving the train orchasing the train, jumping onto

(23:05):
the train, jumping ondesperately, flailing in the
wind with the train, but once itgoes, it's going.
And so, you know, beingintentional about what trains we
sign up for, knowing that therearen't infinite trains to go on

(23:26):
either and that sometimes thesetrains take 7 to 13 years to do
, so it's really important to go.
What haven't we done already?
Ask ourselves the questions,like you ask on this podcast.
I'm like what would you do ifyou could do anything?

Yeah, If you couldn't, yeah, If you couldn't
do what you're doing now.
Actually that's a greatquestion what would you do?

There are two answers I use.
One would be what you do.
I think I'd actually reallylove couples counseling, because
I spend so much time incollaboration and thinking about
the ways that couples can lifteach other up or destroy each
other.
I Also I love looking forpatterns.

(24:24):
So I am an epidemiologist atheart too, like I am really
fascinated with looking at theorigins of diseases and how to
cover that, and I think had Igone into the medical industry,
I would be an epidemiologist.

Wow, that's pretty cool.

Weird, weird hobby.

Not at all.
Not at all.
It's so funny, you know it's.
I feel like we get programmed inthe arts in particular.
I can only really speak for thearts because that's really my
experience as well.
But we get programmed to thinkbecause we feel it, because it
does usually start from a reallypassionate place, a calling, if
you want.
We get sort of conditioned towell to stay on the train

(25:16):
because that's the train thatyou wanted and it's arrived.
You've arrived, you know, and,and it's like you know, or or
there's another one going andyou were invited, you know,
first class.
So we don't ever really thinkabout that because we're so busy
.
It makes sense.
I mean, you know the externalworld is telling us yeah, keep
doing it.
I can imagine for you that mustbe a thing.

(25:37):
And I'm really interested inthat space between, like when
you first started and where youare now that you have this level
of success.
Do you feel the weight ofexpectations?
Do you feel that people areyour yes, people and they're not
telling you the truth?
Do you feel like, talk to meabout, you know, the challenges
of success?

You know the challenges of success and
this is something that myhusband wrote Avenue Q and had a
big success when he was 24years old and we were just
dating at the time.
And he said once he was likesuccess is very stressful.

(26:17):
And I was like I would lovethat kind of stress that would
go well for me.
Love that kind of stress thatwould go well for me.
Um, and, and I really couldn'tfully understand what he was
talking about until it happenedto me, um, and I think that I

(26:41):
think that with success comesoften changes in your personal
relationships.
I mean with with the success ofof frozen and the way that it
just kind of took over the worldfor a little while, our
challenge and our promise toeach other was like we are

(27:02):
keeping our feet on the ground,we are, we're going to be really
careful around what press weread.
We're going to be reallycareful around what our kids are
exposed to.
Um, with this, we're going totry to enjoy the ride but not
get addicted to the ride.
Um, because it I think it'smike white just talked about, uh

(27:27):
, with the white Lotus.
He's like sometimes you are,sometimes you were riding that
surfboard like through thetunnel and the bulk of what we
do is out, out, paddling around,um, trying to find the right
wave, right and, and a lot ofwaiting, waiting, um, and a lot

(27:48):
of work out there.
So getting addicted to the, theride of, of the red carpets and
the interviews, um it's, I nowthink of it as like peeking your
head out of the water for alittle while, and then going

(28:11):
back into the water to do yourwork.

Yeah, when you talk about caution, the words
that we speak into the universewe're saying to our brain.
So when, when we say, go withcaution, again, that primitive
brain is going to be careful.
And when we're operating frombeing careful, we also limit
ourselves right.
So when you say be careful tonot get on the ride because it's

(28:38):
dangerous is very differentthan rephrasing it as I don't
know.
Well, just simply enjoying theride for what it is.
It's just a ride.
You know the ride ends, do youknow what I mean?

And yeah , yes, maybe intentional about
it and there was, while we wereintentional, it was also still
like completely overwhelming,unpredictable, never imagined
kind of kind of season of ourlives.

(29:08):
Yeah, and and really fun andreally great.
But also, you know, we stillhad to to buy eggs and we still
had to do dishes and we stillhad to get our children to
preschool and and elementaryschool and, uh, I mean that that
in itself is a big gift too forjust keeping things, keeping

(29:32):
things normal.
Um, you know, two days afterthe Oscars, uh, you know, I was
back in my yoga pants, with myhair in a messy bun doing school
drop-off.

Yeah, in your happy place.

Yes, it's important not to let it
define you because it's anexternal.
It's an external thing that'shappening and what can be tricky
is in your personalrelationships.
You can fall into a place wherepeople are treating you

(30:06):
differently or they're feelingthat you're defined by this
outward thing that has happenedto you.
You're the same person, in fact.
In a lot of ways you're morevulnerable because you're
looking to the people around youto say, like things are regular
right, yeah, yeah, like we'reare regular right, yeah, yeah,

(30:27):
like we're, we're, we're good,right.
Like you're not going to treatme differently, we're not going
to Yep.
And you know that that can be aa strange moment.
You know, in in all of this,one of the things, one of the
great blessings in my life, isthat when we have a moment like

(30:52):
like frozen, or we have a momentlike our TV show just didn't go
that well, like nobody reallywatched it, it was right when
the pandemic was finally sort ofending and everyone was like,
whether the waves are up or thewaves are down, we are together,
experiencing it, so it doesn'tfeel so alone.

(31:13):
Even the down parts, theimportant parts with the down
down parts, are to not spiralyes yeah, not be like, well, we
should have done this.
Oh, I didn't even think of that.
No, I feel bad about the thingI was thinking about and the
thing you're thinking about.
So we have to be really carefulto not spiral each other in the
down or the anxious moments.

(31:34):
But on the up moments and thatvulnerability, like he was right
there, we were holding eachother's hands during that
rollercoaster.
You know our, our family, our,our two girls are a big part of
our life as well and, like thefour of us are really grounding

(31:57):
unit of play and fun.

I love that.
That's beautiful.
You mentioned earlier and Icompletely understand why you
know that association, becauseyou're collaborators and have
been, and your success has beena lot of it not all of it by any
means, but the well-net hasbeen together.
I'm curious to know for youwhere you stand in all this, or

(32:23):
where you'd like to stand in allthis, because I did hear you
say right that you're interestedin not not separation is not
the right word, but but reallyreally understanding and being
more, being more expansive inwho you are as as you.
I'm curious to know what thatlooks like for you.

And so am I, like it's been.
It's been a while since, forvery many reasons, we merged
careers and like such amazinggifts came out of that, Like our
ability to stay married, ourability to raise children whose
parents had control over theirschedule.

(33:03):
A lot more Like when, when wewere in two careers, we were
looking at at, at a situationwhere, like you, were never
going to have a mom and a dadhome on this Doing theater,
which is a nighttime sport, um,uh, so there was a really good

(33:24):
reason that we merged, um, andwe want to stay merged in a lot
of ways.
But you know, having thoseconversations about like are,
are there things you know bobbyis exploring.
He had this really cool ideafor an ai performance art kind
of thing I am, I'm thinkingabout, I'm thinking about lots

(33:48):
of things.
I'm thinking about sevendifferent things.
I'm thinking I would.
I've always wanted to direct.
My friends are always talkingabout how I have to do a one
woman show.
Um, and like maybe I startsmall and like just work on a
moth story and and or youadventures that I can even begin

(34:27):
to think about because our jobas as child rearers is moving
into adult children consultants.

Yeah, I love that, yeah, totally.

Um.
So you know it's an excitingand scary time to talk about,
have those talks and um and bereally intentional about how
we're spending our time and what, what we want the next five
years to look like and goingforward yeah, it is exciting,

(35:02):
it's I mean it really is.

There's nothing but possibilities, right, and
sometimes that can beoverwhelming too and like hike
the route they took or whateverfor the next three months.

Yes, that's, that's a possibility.
I don't know that that's like Ishould give too much effort to

(35:35):
that, because that's like abigger I'm not sure I need to do
that in such a pressing way.
That's like a fun fantasy.
So like also taking out the,the fantasy ideas and really and

(36:13):
getting real about like whatwould what is aligned and you
know that's I divine like whyare you here Really checking in
with every one of thesedecisions and going like does it
tap into the third eye, thatwhite light of like why am I
here?
Or am I just distracting myself?
Everything that we're, that youdo is so rich.
Like, yes, we could, and I'm,I'm, I'm happy to go there with
you, yeah.

Let's do it.
Let me ask you this Now we'lldo the podcast.
See, it's like what I loveabout you already is is that you
resonate at a really highfrequency, and I and I recognize
that because I do too and youknow what we're most attracted

(36:53):
to usually is what we see.
We see something in ourselves.
So, so, whatever it is about mystuff that you see, you see,
you see yourself in, either as aright and that, and that's a
really interesting place to playby the way which is really,
really interesting.
Let me ask you this.
Oh well, I probably should askyou I'm not going to ask you
that you know what I call should.

No, tell me.

I call I, should, I could, with shame, ah.
So you lose the shame and thenyou're standing in could and
you're standing in capabilityand then you're back in choice.
I could do that, do I want to?
I love that.
Now why is it shame?
Because think about it.
Every time you say I should,there's shame Because you're

(37:37):
like I should, because I, youknow, or I should have.
I heard you say you and Robertsometimes look back and go.
I should have done that.
You know you could have donethat.
You chose not to Right.
What can I learn from that?
When we're looking back andshould, it's great to really
lose the shame and then to livein that, in that you know that's
something I could have done,but I didn't.

(37:59):
And guess what?
We always do the very bestRight, always, in every moment.
In retrospect, it's easy to gonow.
Now, that wasn't very good.
No, that's bullshit.
Nobody plays to lose, nobodyright.
Yes, that's where we get to be.
Have empathy for others insteadof judging them, because, even
though they're not showing up ina way that we think is very

(38:21):
good, they're doing the bestthey can.

I do love.
That is such a great reset inin those moments that you're
like, even when you're like whyare you looking at your phone
while you're going up the subwaystairs?
And then you just have to tellyourself like I'm sure she's
doing her best, like maybe it'sher caregiver or you know she's

(38:46):
getting an emergency text, ormaybe she's just anxious and
she's needing to touch in.
Like you just have to kind ofreframe it and use that
storytelling mind in a good way,rather than everybody.

Totally yeah, you could have fun with that, could
use fun, which is a value ofyours to.
So when you start to feelagitated is to go into that fun,
creative mode and go okay, thatperson is really annoying and
is obviously just you know, youknow it's going too slow and you
know making a line in thegrocery store and and on their
phone and not looking up and notcaring, or you know what else

(39:26):
could be true about thischaracter.
Ooh, maybe they're talking too.
I mean, you can just have funwith it and time will pass and
it may be true that they werejust doing bullshit on their
phone, but you had fun.

They could have been doing the
connections.

They could have been, or they could have been,
doing exactly what you werejudging them for doing.
But why must you suffer Becauseyou're judging someone else we
create suffering for for our, ofour own, Yep.
So what's the hardest thingthat you've ever done?

I think the hardest thing that I've ever
done was raise children whilehaving a bi-coastal career, the
logistics of that and thediscipline that I had to sort of
implement and be intentionalabout.
I'm still exhausted fromleaving three days of hour by

(40:22):
hour, micro, micro scheduling.
I don't think I could have doneit without my two sisters, who
are 14 years younger than me.
They really allowed me to do it,but it was also just huge
amounts of gray matter work towrite down what I would have

(40:47):
been doing if I were here andnot at Disney animation.

That was that was hard.
That's huge and, I think, thethe inherent associated emotions
that go with that, becausethese are your children, right,
right, but also this is yourother child, whatever you're
working on.

Right, yeah, those few times that I was
really pulled to have to decidetime with the kids or get this
deadline in, because we're goingto preview tonight and if you
don't write that scene it's notgetting in Like those were the

(41:29):
hardest moments and those tendto come more from theater than
from from animation.
Theater put me in those hardlike all the children are
fighting and they all need mytime right now.
Marsha Norman when I waspregnant.

(41:49):
Marsha Norman is a playwrightwho wrote Night Mother and also
a librettist, and when I waspregnant she was like here's the
piece of advice I'm going togive you Get your teams in place
, get your supports in place.
They don't need you for everypickup, every.

(42:11):
They remember the vacations andthey remember the laughter.
So make sure that you don'tsacrifice what makes you laugh
and take great vacations.

Yeah, and, and it's it again, it's also, it's
also like such important, that'sgreat advice, because it's a
limiting belief that more timeis better, and boy, oh boy, have
we ever been shamed by that asparents, right, oh yeah,
Especially ladies.
But again, modeling thatthere's not only one way to do
things, I think is so important.

(42:48):
So consistency, yes, traditions, rituals, of course, but I
think understanding that theycan be contextualized too just
broadens our world, absolutely,you know.

Yeah, for so many.
I think so many people are likewell, when I have a kid, it's
going to change everything andit's not easy Like it is.
I'm not going to lie, it wasthe answer to what was the
hardest thing you ever did.
For sure, me too, and yet I'mso glad that I really worked to

(43:27):
have both that.
I give up.
There were.
There was a moment, early,early, when, when I had like a
little one who wasn't sleeping,my vet, I thought, oh, is this
the end of my career?
Like, is this?
Am I going to do something elseInteresting?
But I was in a, I had gottenthe Drominus Guild Fellowship

(43:50):
and it kind of forced me to havea deadline with the real.
You know, I was showing mysongs to Lynn Ahrens and Stephen
Flaherty once a month, and so Iwasn't, I couldn't phone it in
Nope month, and so I wasn't, Icouldn't phone it in nope um,

(44:12):
and it forced me to followmarcia norman's advice and get,
at the time, like I think I hada babysitter 12 hours, like
she'd come for three hour chunks, uh, like during the afternoon,
while for the afternoon nap orwhatever, in those three hours.
I did more work in those threehours than I would in a week
when my school was totally openand I could be like well, first

(44:35):
I have to sharpen my pencils.
Oh, these pencils aren't right.
They don't smell right.
I need to get good smellingpencils.

I love that, yeah, no, for for sure, that's
brilliant.
So what gifts do you think cameout of that hardest thing,
aside from the fact that youhere you are and you've got
great kids and all that but foryou, what?
What gifts?
And learning?

well, um , one gift that we have talked
about in the press is that, uh,we would, when we had to leave,
I would make up these littlelullabies for them so that they
and I was like, you'll sing thiswith aunt kate every night, but
it's a song, so you know thatwe are with you.

(45:21):
Um, and then those that lullabyand that idea turned into a
plot point for Coco, oh, nice,um, and so, like, the gifts of
everything that we do, um,resonates with what we're making

(45:45):
at the time.
I just can't, I can't, keepthem separate.
They, they just are in dialoguewith what we're doing.
So, you know, those years ofElsa's anxiety, elsa's feeling
like she had to, she had, it wasjust only up to her, and that

(46:24):
kind of anxiety, you know, Icould really tap into that idea
because I was dealing with it oflike, oh, I am, I'm in
California right now and thebaby has croup and I've got to
find the pediatrician, figureout how the dexamethasone is
going to get delivered to her,make it to this, you know, party
with the studio execs.
Yeah, I definitely understoodthe feeling of like playing lots

(46:45):
of parts and feeling like itwas all on my shoulders.

Yeah, no, totally.
And just earlier, when you weretalking about how things just
kind of the word that came to mymind was synthesis using using

(47:08):
this beautiful thing that cameout of you and giving it to your
child as something to say youknow, I'm with, I'm with you.
This came from me, just likethey came out of you.
The music came out of you too,and you know, and I think that's
so spectacularly beautiful andand poignant, um, and and then,
since I just just got the, thefeeling of synthesis right, that
that's all part of the we'renot just on the wave, right,

(47:31):
that we're all in the watertogether, we are all the water.

Kristen Anderson-Lop (47:35):
Absolutely .
I do think that when I talkabout my work, it's just amazing
, and maybe it's circling rightback to the very beginning, that
word that we can't remember,which is that whatever it is
that we're focusing on tends toshow up so so often.

(47:58):
The issues that I, that we'regrappling with, are the issues
that I'm grappling with in mywork, and that they're they're
in dialogue with each other.

Totally, yeah, no, totally.
And you know, we, we also, weteach what we most need to learn
.
So it's, it's really a great, agreat thing to like if you hear
yourself either telling someone, you know, like you're thinking
, yeah, and you know theuniverse provides.

We write that song we most need to hear.

Yeah.

Yeah, in my life.

Yeah, Interesting Right.
So so that was the mostdifficult.
What was the easiest decisionyou ever made?

Oh gosh, this one was harder, and every
time I listened to ask this tosomebody else I was like okay,
what's my answer?
Going to be, solved it.
And I since I've already talkedso much about my children, I
mean wait, wait, wait, wait.

So just let's do this in real time.
Wait, wait, wait.
So just let's do this in realtime.
There's no right or wrong.
Right, and you can alwayschange Right.
So bring yourself to thismoment Right and tap into what
comes up right now not what youthought you might say before, or
don't analyze.

The easiest thing I ever did was
become a songwriter.
Uh was flip into.
This is a hard one to answerbecause it it wasn't emotional,

(49:43):
it wasn't owning that, I was awriter.
Um and it.
It was easy when it finallyfelt like, oh, of course, um and
it.
It had been years of strugglebefore that.
Um, so it's, it was hard and itwas easy, like when the the

(50:04):
first time I wrote my first songfor the BMI workshop.
Um, and it went well and itconnected.
That was the easy moment whereI was like bye-bye acting.
I'm a writer, but that hadtaken years of exploring.

(50:26):
So I'm answering with a paradox.

I know I love paradoxes, so that's great.
It's interesting, though, thatyou said that it again.
It was sort of a binary thingthat you said bye-bye acting.
This is what I am.
That's interesting because inmy head I was going yes, and and
I am also this.

Yes, I had, and that is something that
I'm probably going to.
I've always joked that once thekids are passed and if we're
lucky enough to, you know, haveenough money, one of these days
I want to just play aunt ellerat like an encore or something
like.
One of these days I want to getback onto the stage.

(51:14):
I love performing.
Oh yeah, I, I love it, but atthe time I had been like a
regional actress I the otherstandard joke is if there was a
nun to be played in NewHampshire, I played it.

(51:34):
I just spent years playing nunsin New Hampshire.
It was the nonsense boom.
And then there was a couple ofdabbles with Maria Von Trapp,
but that involved like goingaway.
And that involved like goingaway and BMI.

(51:55):
I got this opportunity to learnhow to be a songwriter through
the BMI workshop and that meantlike okay, you're committing,
you have to be there everyMonday.
You weren't allowed to missmore than three classes or you
got kicked out.
So it was a commitment and Iwrote my first song and I had
been.
I had missed like two classesbecause I had been doing a show

(52:20):
in New Hampshire, a review inNew Hampshire, and that was
really fun.
But there was this moment whereI was like, okay, no more
auditioning, no more like I'mdoing this, and that was the
easy choice.
Cool Like I'm doing this andthat was the easy choice.
Cool, but, like I said, I hadspent a very long journey

(52:42):
denying that I was a writer ordirector, from the time that I
stopped directing in my backyard.
Interesting, why do you thinkthat is?
I think it's because it was the80s and we didn't see women
songwriters.
We didn't see women directors.

(53:04):
Every cast album had a bunch ofvery worried looking men
gathered around a piano smokingwith alcohol, and the
songwriters looked like angrysmoking men and um.
So and and I was clearly a girlwho loved theater from a very
very young age.

(53:25):
Yeah, I think that the theformula was for a girl who loved
theater like oh, you want to bean actress and you could sing
too, right.

So it's like, oh, gotta go sing and be an actress.
Yeah, just talk about how yousaid, you like patterns, you
know, and pattern recognition isa huge part of what I do in my
work and I can see a tremendouspattern going on here with with
with that, with the the.
You know, step up, here are theparameters and you do step up

(53:53):
and you like the parametersbecause they help you do it the
way it's supposed to do, becauseRight and it's, and then, and
then there's when, when twothings, the paradoxes come up,
when two things are going on.
That's that's where the workand the growth has come Right,
where you start to recognizethat, oh no, I can be a mother
and I can be an Oscar winning.

(54:14):
You know, these are all part ofme and the rest is the how.
I mean how is the thing right?
I mean we all talk about ourwhy.
Our why is very, very important, obviously, but once when we're
really living in our why and inour values and living
intentionally, you know, that'snot meant to keep us in with

(54:35):
parameters, but rather to keepus open so that we can figure
out how, and that's the Venndiagram of like, so you're not
living woo-woo on a mountain,but where you can really tap
into that when you want to.
We always talk about like,ultimate, the ultimate things,

(54:57):
like I want to be here and Iwant to be intentional.
Yes, yes, intentional is great.
I'm not saying any of thesethings are bad, but almost as if
it's a, it's a destination,right, and I feel like.
I feel like there's it's again,there's such a diversity of
self and it's about recognizingthat we always have access, but
sometimes it's blocked, and sowe talk about getting rid of

(55:23):
those blocks so that we can thenchoose where we want to show up
energetically.
And that's the shading that youtalked about.
That's the layers.
That's why I pulled that outfrom what you said.
She's interested in elev, know,elevating and and playing in
that, in that area of differentlayers and exploring it's pretty
exciting yeah, well, thank you.

Yeah, I, um, I think, I think layers are
important, especially if youdid have a certain I mean, we're
not famous in any way, shape orform but if, after a while,
like you said, feeling frozen ina particular role or particular

(56:01):
idea of yourself, even thoughyou know you're changing a lot,
that means that is that hardwork of showing up, showing up
true to yourself, but, you know,maybe not being quite as like
jazz hands, clowny, as as youhave shown up before.

Unless you want to yeah Right, 100%.
I mean, that's me.
I love a jazz hands, me too,you know, but people always want
that all the time and it's sofunny because you heard my
meditations that's a totallydifferent shade of me absolute
what do you?
What are you most afraid of?

what am I most afraid of?
Um, disappointing people.
Um, I I really hatedisappointing people, but I'm
also really afraid of how thatcan be used to control me if I

(57:03):
don't put down boundaries reallygood about boundaries so that I
I make sure people aren'texpecting more than what I have
the capacity to give.

What do you know will stay true about you, no
matter what happens.

I think my imagination, I think I think
my storyteller mind, mystoryteller mind it, my
storyteller mind, it's what hasserved me.
And I think it's a big part ofgoing back to the special needs
brother, that very, very earlyon I was given directives to put

(57:54):
yourself in their shoes, and soI think that, for better or for
worse, I'm always going to be anostril, for, like, where
somebody is like just a bigwalking nostril and trying to

(58:15):
understand their story andintuit their story, um, so I can
uh be of help.
So I I it's also I have tosilence that storyteller.
Sometimes I also have to golike I'm not right, that's a
story.

Oh yeah, how do you want to be remembered?

I think I want to be remembered as a
force for good.
I want to be remembered that Imade people feel seen.
I made people feel seen.

I want to be remembered for somebody who
brought joy and wisdom to theworld.
It's beautiful, thank you.
Yeah, so we kind of talkedabout this already.
Most people think KristenAnderson Lopez is, but the truth
is Is there something elseyou'd want to share?

there Um .
I guess most people thinkKristen Anderson is extroverted.
Is I am an extrovertedintrovert or an introverted
extrovert, I don't know Anambivert.

An ambivert.

Ambivert .

An ambivert Ambivert.

Totally, yeah, I love that, how do you
how do you recharge?
Walking in the woods um baths,honestly, podcasts like yours,
um, but I find the the realms ofspirituality outside of
traditional religious structuresvery filling for me.

Lisa Hopkins (01:00:03):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's higher consciousness, really, isn't it?

Kristen Anderson-Lopez (01:00:07):
I mean, that sounds highfalutin, but it
really is about being moreconscious, which simply means
being more aware, right,absolutely more responsive than
reactive yeah, and differentlenses, I mean I, I think all of
these things are a tool, theidea of chakras are a tool to,

(01:00:33):
yes, into different, into truthbeyond the like.
You know, what am I doing todayand what are we eating today?
What am I wearing today?

Totally.

Just to help us go a little deeper into
the truth.

Totally Ten years from now.
What are we celebrating?

Ten years from now, I think we're
celebrating my one-woman show,or my first movie, animated
movie, as a director.
One of those things.

I'm not laughing at you, but if we were coaching
together, I'd be all over you.
You hear the well, because it's.
It's first of all.
You sound like a canadian uptalking at the end, but but
because you're it and it doesn't.
This is not a judgment or acriticism, it's just an
observation that you're, you're,you're only you're, so toe

(01:01:34):
dipping, and it's still cold Onemoment, so directing.
You know, I'm your magic geniehere I'm going 10 years from now
.
What are we celebrating?
You could have said anything.
I'm on top of the Himalayas and, um, I don't know, I mean it
could be anything.
Start to explore that, becausejust cause you say I don't know,
I mean it could be anything.
Start to explore that, becausejust because you say it doesn't

(01:01:56):
mean you have to do it Right.
And sometimes folks feel likeif they say it, then they're
committed.

That was the fear.

That's what I was.
That's what I was hearing.

I was like I don't have time to do
that right now.

Commit to the dreaming, because you can do
that now.
And the dreaming is where stuffpercolates and it's like having
a date with your muse, right, Imean you just play and it
doesn't mean anything, it's notresult oriented.
So when I ask you that kind ofyou know, you went future linear
, like I don't want to sayexactly because I don't know,

(01:02:33):
maybe there's you know you don'twant to like, if I do that, I
can't do that.
That's what I'm hearing, that'sthe pattern and I think if you
can come to living in the moment, to bring it to what we're
doing here today, that's wherepossibility lies, because you
don't have to do anything thatyou dream about you dream about.

(01:02:59):
You can just dream and exploreand embody and and take a trip
there without you know what Imean, and then and then and
you'll have a much better ideaof what that feels like all
right.

Well, 10 years from now, we are
celebrating my one woman show,which has turned into an HBO
special, and um, a live tourwith musicians, dancers, um, and
I'm 10 pounds thinner.

Amazing.
And are we in New Zealandhanging out and drinking Cause?
That's where the show's top.

Maybe we have to be in New Zealand uh
and climbing the taking the uhLord of the Rings tour.

Hell yeah, I'm there, I'm there with you.
That was great.
So you probably felt that a lot, a lot further down here.

I did.
It was.
It was weird.
It's strange that it has to beon HBO.
Hbo may not exist.
I would you read my mind.
You read my mind.
That's right.
The streaming wars.
Who knows?
That's right, the streamingwars.

That's right.
And again, if we were tocontinue to work together, I
keep saying why, why, why, andyou get really, you distill it
down to the feeling that youwant, and then we talk about
well, where else can you findthat feeling?
I mean, you could totally havethat, but it's not the only
thing.

Kristen Anderson-Lop (01:04:09):
Absolutely .

No, which is super cool.

I think the HBO feeling was like oh, the
one woman show went well, well,exactly Well it went well, go
on.

You killed it Well , and you know, and that's
important to you, probably forbecause dot, dot, dot, right,
because you tell me why, whywould that be?

Kristen Anderson-Lope (01:04:33):
important that it does well, because
nothing is sadder than aone-woman show that doesn't go
well.

Oh, that's not true.
There's so much, so much sadder.
You're so funny.
There's a limiting belief rightthere.

I also want to point out that my
one-woman show involves dancersand musicians, so I guess it's
not a one-woman show.

So you could blame it on them.

Yeah, it's fucking actors.

Oh my God.
Okay, we're going to do therapid fire.
Are you ready?

Sure yeah.

What makes you hungry?

Breakfast , lunch, dinner anxiety Anxiety
oh yeah, Discovered that anxietymakes me very hungry.
Breakfast, lunch, dinneranxiety Anxiety yeah, Discovered
that anxiety makes me veryhungry.

That's super interesting.
What makes you sad?

Anybody who's powerless getting picked
on by a bully, any bullies inthe world.

What inspires you?

Great music, my husband's melodies.

What frustrates you?

Kristen Anderson-Lop (01:05:44):
Technology apps and passwords.

Damn passwords, I can never remember them.

Passwords , like everything's a portal and
I, just the minute somebodysays the word portal, my
shoulders just go right up Like,oh, I'm not going to do that.
There's a portal.

Hey, what makes you laugh?

Oh, threes Things that come in
threes.
And the third is um isridiculous.
Uh, my older daughter's writingshe's like an amazing comedy
writer and and I don't know.

(01:06:30):
There's so many things thatmake me laugh.
My husband makes me laugh likeall day long.

That's so nice.
Is laughter important to you?

Oh, laughter is huge.
Laughter is sexy too, likelaughter is.
When somebody can make me laugh, I instantly have great
admiration for them.

What makes you angry?

What makes me angry is ignorance,
tribalism and authoritarianpersonality disorder.

Finally, what makes you grateful?

oh, um, lately the sunsets, like I'm
getting more and more obsessedwith sunsets, being near water,
hearing the wind, like naturebeing out in in nature really
excites a like an Anne of GreenGables level of poetry and

(01:07:43):
attitude.
Love that I like to live inthat space.

That's beautiful.
What are the top three thingsthat have happened so far today?

Well, my husband made me an egg, as he
does many breakfasts, like he'sone of his acts of service and
love to me.
It's like he's Mr Breakfast andhe makes me delicious coffee
and I love that.
Because I'm not a great morningperson.
It takes me a minute to rev up.

(01:08:16):
Um, I walked by the water indumbo today oh beautiful um.
And then I saw coming up on theelevator.
I saw the man with the letterthe Let it Grow t-shirt and
perhaps because I am an obsessedegotist, I was like, what does

(01:08:42):
that have to do with my song?

That's so funny, and what's something that you're
looking forward to today andthen something you're looking
forward to in the future.

Well, tonight we're going to go see
John Proctor is the villain, andI hear Sadie sink is amazing in
it, and so I'm excited to gosee that.
And then in the future, I'mreally looking forward to the
summer.
I'm really looking forward tobeing.
We have a place in the woods inConnecticut.

(01:09:15):
I'm really excited to be therefor a longer period of time.

I don't want to let you go, but I I'm not even
gonna say the S word.
I'm going to let you go,Kristen.
It's been such a pleasure.

I can't thank you enough oh, thank you,
this is really really fun truly.

I've been speaking today to Kristen Anderson Lopez
.
Thanks so much for listening.
I'm Lisa Hopkins.
Stay safe and healthy, everyone, and remember to live in the
moment.
In music, stop time is thatbeautiful moment where the band
is suspended in rhythmic unison,supporting the soloist to
express their individuality inthe moment.

(01:10:02):
I encourage you to take thattime and create your own rhythm.
Until next time.
I'm lisa hopkins.
Thanks for listening.

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