April 7, 2024 • 34 mins
Challenge and change are a part of life. And it's often difficult to find the strength to carry on and keep moving forward.
In this episode, Linda Fogg-Phillips shares her personal story of resilience and determination. She faced the triple blow of a family business collapse during the 2008 financial crisis, the heart-wrenching loss of her son Garrett and the death of her husband. These tragic events eventually led to the creation of the Pearl Habits Method.
The Pearl Habit Method was created by BJ Fogg Ph.D. and developed by Linda Fogg-Phillips as a way to implement behavior change through small, easy steps. During our interview, you'll hear some of Linda's most successful Pearl Habits. Pearl Habits are simple. There are two parts: the irritant and the pearl.
Linda Fogg-Phillips has spent more than 30 years studying health behaviors, including nutrition, fitness, and mental health. She is on a mission to help others live a happier and healthier life. As the CEO and Co-Founder of the Tiny Habits® Academy, Linda's work focuses on behavior change and habit design. She is a regular guest lecturer at Stanford University and is a featured family health expert in the media and in publications.
As the mother of eight children, Linda has had her own behavior change and habit design laboratory for more than 40 years. During our interview, Linda and I talk about grief, the power of choice and gratitude. She always tells her children, "Be better, not bitter." During tragedy, Linda worked hard to be her 'best self' for her children.
BIO
Fogg-Phillips has a master’s degree in Health Promotion and Exercise Physiology. She has spent more than 35 years studying health behaviors, including nutrition, fitness, and mental health. Linda has virtually coached over 15,000 people worldwide. She is recognized by the American Council on Exercise as an expert in virtual coaching, habit formation and behavior change. She is a contributing author and expert for the ACE Behavior Change Certification Program.
Linda is an international author, public speaker, and consultant. She is the author of two books about understanding the online behavior of adolescents; Facebook for Parents and Facebook for Educators. Linda is the host of the podcast, Pearl Habits; Creating beauty and positivity from life’s challenges.
Fogg-Phillips is a featured social media and family health expert in the media and in publications such as the New York Times, CNN, ABC, CBS, Fox and NBC. During 2009 - 2013, Linda was the adolescent behavior expert and online safety consultant for Facebook, Inc. Linda was commissioned by Facebook to write their first Facebook Online Safety Guide for Educators. Linda is a regular guest lecturer at Stanford University.
Find out more about Pearl Habits here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Judy Oskam (00:02):
Welcome to Stories of Change and Creativity.
I'm Judy Oskam.
As a university professor,administrator and former
journalist, I love interviewingpeople who inspire, educate and
motivate People like Linda FoggPhillips.
Linda has a story aboutreinvention, growth and a
(00:23):
calling to serve.
You'll also learn about PearlHabits in this interview.
Linda is on a mission to helpothers live a happier and
healthier life.
She is the CEO and co-founderof the Tiny Habits Academy.
Her work focuses on behaviorchange and habit design and, as
(00:44):
the mother of eight children,Linda has had her own behavior
change and habit designlaboratory in her own home for
more than 40 years.
Well, Linda does share some ofthe tragedies and the
heartbreaks in her life, but shealso tells us how she made it
through.
I hope you enjoy thisconversation as much as I did .
(01:06):
In the last 15 years.
It has been like one changeafter another, after another
after another none of them ofwhich I anticipated or ever
thought I'd have to deal withand the first one the first,
basically the first domino thattipped, the first shoe that
dropped, however you want torefer to.
It occurred well, reallyoccurred in 2008.
And that's when a lot of thingsin my world were starting to
(01:29):
fall apart.
We were home builders here inLas Vegas.
Very, very successful homebuilders had a company for 25
years.
Net worth was $30 million.
It was a really successfulcompany.
Wow.
We were a privately ownedcompany, meaning we owned it all
.
Sure, sure, it was a reallysuccessful company.
We were a privately ownedcompany, meaning we owned it all
.
Sure, many family members mychildren, my son-in-law and if
(01:51):
you look back to those years,that's when the housing
recession was really starting toget into full swing and every
place in the US started to fallapart.
Even public builders that haddeep pockets started to fall
apart.
The little builders that wewere really didn't stand a
chance, but we fought good andhard and we hung on for quite a
while.
But 2008, as I look back tothat year.
(02:12):
That really was the pivotalyear for not only struggling
financially and struggling withour home building business, but
that also was the time that welost my 20-year-old son to an
accidental Oxycontin overdose,and so it just seemed like the
world was falling down around myfeet.
You know, adapting to and myson, his name was Garrett.
I have eight children.
(02:33):
He was the third of our eight.
Just, you know, he really waswell and even my kids say he was
the golden child and I'm notgoing to deny that.
I'm not going to that.
Yeah, yeah, I'm not going to.
All my kids are amazing.
I love them all equally, ofcourse, but Garrett was
everybody's golden sibling orgolden child cause he was just
(02:54):
so kind and generous and just socaring and unfortunately, his
death really put us all on atailspin.
And this was an unexpecteddeath and the history behind him
getting on oxycodone was verytragic.
He was a high school athleteand was one of the high school
coaches.
It was an injury, huh yeah, andhis high school coach
(03:18):
introduced him to stackablesteroids that then led to pain
meds that unfortunately, he gotaddicted to and just could not
kick it.
So that was a monumental changethat took me a while.
I don't know.
I don't know that you can everget over that.
How do you ever get over that ?
Linda Fogg-Phillips (03:35):
You don't, you don't, judy, you don't ever
get over the loss of a child.
It's something that I had avery wise friend, and I'm going
to share this advice because itwas really helped me, not just
through the loss of Garrett, butsubsequently.
Three years ago, I lost myhusband as well to early onset
Alzheimer's.
Um, and a friend of mine,Ji mAnderson, told me he said, Linda
(03:57):
, people will tell you that timewill heal, and this was in in
relationship.
This was um about three daysafter Garrett passed and Jim
came over to visit us and hesaid, Linda, people will tell
you, time will heal, he says.
But don't believe them, that'sa lie.
All time allows you to do is tolearn to live with the pain,
and I have found that to bereally true.
It's true.
Yeah, and having had Jim sharethat with me, it helped me
(04:22):
revise my expectations.
Instead of saying, oh, whyaren't I getting over this, or
why is this still a problem forme, or why am I still depressed
about the loss of my son, Irealized that it was going to
take some time for me to learnto live with this new reality of
mine.
And I will tell you, thatjourney has been a bittersweet
(04:43):
journey, as I'm sure you canimagine.
Sure, the first probably threeor four years, and so this was
about 15 years ago.
About the first three or fouryears, I struggled to function,
I truly struggled to function,and I finally got to the point
in my life where some of thethings that would cause me a lot
(05:03):
of pain or sorrow, that wouldbring back up that wound in my
heart the loss of my son I thenstarted to embrace and I didn't
realize that the pain that I wasfeeling was because I loved him
.
So that was a shift and achange, not so much in mindset
but in the allowing time to helpme learn how to live in a
positive manner in the face ofsuch a negative and difficult
(05:26):
situation.
Even today it's been this manyyears.
You know I never work onGarrett's birthday and I never
work.
Or you know I never make planson his birthday or on what we
call his angel day.
Judy Oskam (05:38):
And you guys have a big celebration on that day,
don't you ?
Linda Fogg-Phillips (05:41):
Yeah, we always even my kids that live
out of town come into town andespecially on his angel day,
we'll go to his favorite sushirestaurant and we really
celebrate his life again,instead of just sort of pushing
it aside or ignoring or tryingto pretend that never happened,
because really reality is it didhappen and it did impact all of
us.
And so the years have allowedme to adapt and start to embrace
(06:05):
those feelings of pain, inacknowledgement of the fact that
that was unconditional lovethat I had for my child, and so
that was a big shift for me.
But in that same year, in 2008,when we started to lose
everything losing our home,building business.
Eventually we lost our home.
(06:25):
We lost our five-acre ranch.
We had to file Chapter 7bankruptcy where we had nothing
left because my husband hadpersonally guaranteed a number
of land, loans and things.
It necessitated a very drasticchange of life for us.
I had eight horses at that time.
(06:46):
I had to either sell or givethem away.
It's sort of like a fire cellbecause we had to move out of
our home pretty quickly becausethe bank was taking it back.
They wouldn't work with us onit.
But everybody I mean noteverybody, but that was sort of
a common thread that people werelosing their homes and losing
their properties and losingtheir businesses right and left,
especially people that hadanything to do with home
building.
I never expected that at thatpoint in time I would need to go
(07:12):
back to work or I would need tohelp support my family, and I
did so a little bit hesitantly.
You know I was a full-time mom.
That's what I love doing with abig family.
Yes, yes, my youngest child was11 at the time and I'd had a
charmed really a charmed life upuntil then.
Sure, I had the privilege andthe opportunity to stay home
(07:34):
with my children.
They were in private school, wehad a beautiful horse ranch, we
did a lot of extracurricularactivities around horses and
around sports, and I had thefreedom and the ability to do
that.
So when my world was turnedupside down and it's like, wow,
I think I need to do somethingto help support the family
because I have a good education,it's like maybe I need to
(07:55):
bridge this gap for a little bituntil we get back on our feet
with home building, I knew itwould come back.
My husband was a very, very goodentrepreneur, but what I didn't
know is that was not God's plan.
Yeah, and shortly after that,in 2014, as we were trying to
put the pieces back together onmany things, you know not just
(08:15):
the ramifications of losing myson, but losing our home,
building business, needing tomove, you know, uproot my
children, pull them out ofprivate schools, just you name
it everything changed and thebankruptcy just really it was
really difficult to go through.
It was never in my life that Ithink that we would need to do
that.
I was actually, I'll be honest,I was actually pretty upset
(08:38):
with my husband for personal andguaranteeing loans, but that's
the nature of the business, andso for a little while I had to
navigate through that.
But then, in 2014, my husbandwas diagnosed with early onset
Alzheimer's at the age of 58.
Judy Oskam (08:53):
Oh, so young.
Linda Fogg-Phillips (08:55):
And then I realized, okay, this is not a
temporary situation for me toneed to help support my family.
This is now going to be my role.
And, judy, as I say that and Iknow there's, you know, a lot of
implications there.
But as I look back on that andas I say that there's a lot of
things I had to step into andhad to move forward with courage
(09:17):
because I had no other choice.
There just wasn't anotherchoice.
And as I look back, I am andthis is gonna sound funny, but I
am so grateful that I had thatopportunity to step into the
role that I'm currently in.
I would have never paired upwith BJ to build out the Habits
Academy.
I would have never been evenmotivated or needed to be in the
(09:42):
position that I'm in now, and Ilove what I'm doing.
I love the people I'm workingwith.
Like yourself, I love givingpeople back that hope and
evidence change and that theskills and tools that they can
implement to navigate reallydifficult changes and come back
through it on the other sidebetter than before.
(10:03):
I've learned this the hard wayand I don't want it to be so
hard for others.
So when you say, well, what wasthe pivotal change.
What was the most impactfulchange?
It's not one specific, but itwas sort of a period of time
where I had to decide is thisgoing to destroy me or am I
going to rise above this?
And obviously I chose thelatter and I'm still rising
(10:24):
above it.
I think we still are, but Ilook back and the blessings and
the opportunities that I've hadas a result would have never
come to me without thosechallenges that I faced.
Judy Oskam (10:33):
Well, I think, right there, you're also talking a
lot about mindset, too, and thefact that, because all of those
instances, any one of thoseevents, would be enough to just
knock somebody flat, any one ofthose events would be enough to
just knock somebody flat, andthe fact that you kept going and
going and you went from one toanother, and that resilience, I
(10:58):
think, is something that I love,the fact that you've actually
looked back and sort of analyzedthat, because that, I think,
helps you grow right.
Linda Fogg-Phillips (11:02):
Yes, oh yes , and I'm very analytical, and
so when things are going wrong,or even when things are going
right, it's like okay, why?
Why did that happen?
And you know, getting stuck inthe why is not helpful.
It's very helpful.
You know why?
Me?
I think that's a very a lot ofus have gotten stuck in that
mindset, especially in the midstof turmoil.
(11:24):
That's a very a lot of us havegotten stuck in that mindset,
especially in the midst ofturmoil.
Well, why me?
Well, why not?
But it's not so much why.
You know, understanding, youknow.
But now understanding, okay,taking that that you learned, or
the situation surrounding that,and how are you going to
leverage that to be better?
There's a saying that I oftenshare with my children and it's
be better, not bitter.
(11:45):
It's really easy to be bitterabout what life hands us and be
bitter about the changes thatare thrust upon us, but that
doesn't help, that doesn't doanything.
Judy Oskam (11:55):
No, no, no.
Linda Fogg-Phillips (11:56):
The challenge is just to be better
because of it.
Rise above it and be a betterperson and make the world around
you better as a result.
Judy Oskam (12:04):
Well, again, that's a choice, though, and again, you
made those choices, and I thinkback and I look at all of the
challenges that you had and whata good role model you have been
for your own children andgrandchildren now, because now
(12:24):
and have you thought about thatthat everything you're doing as
moms right, they're watching usall the time.
Even though they're grown,they're watching us.
Linda Fogg-Phillips (12:34):
You know thank you for saying that, Judy,
that actually I felt aresponsibility, not necessarily
to be a role model, but I felt aresponsibility to be my best
self for their benefit.
Judy Oskam (12:46):
For them, yes, yes for them.
Linda Fogg-Phillips (12:48):
And also, you know, during the time that
my husband was alive but stilldeclining, I needed to show up
as my best self because I owedit to him and I owed it to my
children.
I do know and they'vereferenced this several times
that when they're facing theirown challenges which they do my
children are now adults.
(13:08):
They have their own families,they have their own day in and
day out, big challenges as wellas little challenges, and it
doesn't matter if they're big orlittle.
They're still challenges.
They still are changes that youneed to navigate, and I know
that I've given my children somehope that they can do it too.
And, to be really honest, mylifeline through all of these
challenges was tiny habits, yes,which then evolved into, as you
(13:31):
know, pearl habits, which istaking the challenge and
creating beauty out of it.
Pearl Habits, which is takingthe challenge and creating
beauty out of it, like thatgrain of sand making a pearl,
making a gem out of thatirritant or that challenge that
you have, as opposed to allowingit to cause you to be bitter
and to deteriorate or to haveyour relationships deteriorate.
I have one daughter right nowthat's having a lot of
(13:52):
challenges with mental health.
She has bipolar illness andalso has a borderline
personality disorder and hasreally struggled the last three
years and I'm hoping that wehave.
I have daily conversations withher and she gets really stuck
in the negative mindset and I'mhoping that the conversations I
have with her, as well as whatwe've been through over the
(14:13):
years, helps her see thatthere's a better way than being
bitter.
In fact, last week I was on acall with her.
I was on a Zoom call with herand she won't mind me sharing
her name.
She's given me permission toshare her name as well.
Her name is Amber and she wascomplaining about something.
She was very negative and I justsaid look, Amber, happiness is
(14:37):
a choice.
And I have a sign in my officedownstairs, the one that I
usually sit in to write and read, and you know I pulled the sign
off of my bookshelf because Ihave it just written on a little
note card.
With a smiley face, I said look, happiness is a choice.
I said I've had this up on mybookshelf for over five years.
I look at it every day toremind myself.
I can choose how I'm going toface this day.
I can choose to be happy or Ican choose to be angry and
(15:00):
bitter and I think I'm startingto get through to her.
You know she's probably theonly child that really struggles
with negativity.
I know a lot of us get stuckwith the negative talk in our
head or narrative that isnegative.
You know, whatever we're goingto tell ourselves, it's going to
be the truth.
Yeah, so you can change yourstory and, just like you said,
(15:23):
judy, we can choose to be happy.
We can choose to live adifferent story than the
negative story we're tellingourselves.
Judy Oskam (15:30):
Well, and that's why I love Pearl Habits and talk a
little bit about Pearl Habits.
And how did that come to be?
Because people who listen tothis podcast and they you know,
we'll put in the show notesinformation about Tiny Habits
but talk about Pearl Habits.
Because to me, I think that'sfantastic, because a lot of the
(15:50):
changes we want to make arecoming from a negative spot, a
negative place.
Yeah, and, like I said, they'rethrust upon us.
They're not necessarily ourchoice to make those changes,
but we have to adapt, we have tobe resilient.
Pearl, habits emerged during myjourney of really struggling
through some of the challengesthat I just shared with you,
along with other challenges thatemerged during all of this as
(16:14):
well, as you can imagine.
And one day well, it was in theearly days of Tiny Habits One
day I was talking to BJ you knowBJ, who designed the Tiny
Habits method, who's my brother.
We're very, very close and I was.
I was pretty depressed, I waspretty apathetic, and I it was
not.
It was probably about the youknow, three years or so after
(16:36):
Garrett had passed away, and Iwas just really in a bad spot
mentally and emotionally.
And one day BJ said hey, linda,why don't you try this tiny
habit recipe?
We didn't have a name for itthen, but he said it goes like
this After your feet hit thefloor in the morning, I will
tell myself it's going to be agreat day.
And then, as you know, with thetiny habits method, one of the
(17:03):
most important parts of it isreinforcing the behavior that
you're wanting to create as a,as a habit, with a positive
emotion, and I would just do twothumbs up and say, yes, you've
got this way to go, that habit Ihave done every single day
since that point in time.
What happened in this?
And you know, I was sort ofscoffing at BJ, not at him, but
it's like, oh, brother, hethinks that's good.
Yes, yes, like really, come on,bj, seriously.
(17:24):
But I thought, why not?
You know he's a pretty smartguy, it's not going to hurt me
to do that.
So why not try it?
And we have a close enoughrelationship that you know we're
comfortable challenging eachother on things and just say hey
, but I said, okay, I'll try it.
I said I'll try it.
It probably won't work, butI'll try it.
Here again, my negative mindsetand within three days, what I
(17:46):
saw was a complete shift in mymindset and a shift in my
demeanor and I thought, wow,isn't that interesting.
And as I looked at that andhere again evaluated, why did it
have such an impact on me?
What I noticed happened is ittook me out of my victim mindset
and put me into a victormindset, just by starting my day
off with it's going to be agreat day and celebrating,
(18:08):
releasing the endorphins anddopamine that happens when you
celebrate.
As a result what I starteddoing, as the you know, I'd
start my day off with that.
But as a result what I starteddoing, as the you know, I start
my day off with that.
But as a result, I startedlooking for the good things in
my day.
What's going to make my daygreat, what are the great things
that would happen that I didn'teven plan, or great things that
I would then make sure happened, and so my focus was more on
(18:29):
the positive than the negative.
That has been transformativefor me.
In fact, I have told BJ I thinkhe saved my life because I was
in such a dark spot at thatpoint in time that he gave me
that tool to implement.
That has really positivelyimpacted me and that's one of my
favorite recipes.
We now call it the Maui habit,yeah, but also so I consider
(18:50):
that a pearl habit, becauseyou're taking a negative
situation or difficult situationand you're looking at it
differently.
What I also saw is it gave mepermission to look at the
positive things in my life, asopposed to be drawn into the
negative or drawn intoeverything that was going poorly
(19:10):
.
It really helped me realizethere's a lot of things that are
going well and to continue tofocus on those, as opposed to
the opposite.
Another pearl habit that I useoften and there's many, many of
them Another pearl habit that Iuse often is when I get in a
situation that is new to me, orI'm uncomfortable or, it's like,
causes anxiety, and I, you know, it's like, oh man, I've never
(19:34):
done this.
This is causing me to beuncomfortable.
I tell myself and here again,that's you know, when I'm
feeling uncomfortable or when Iget into a situation that causes
me anxiety, I will tell myself,oh, this is going to be a new
adventure.
I wonder what I'm going to learn.
Now.
Adventures are fun, right,right, right, y'all don't want
(19:58):
to go on a fun adventure, and soif we can reframe those
challenging events or situationsin our life that we're
uncomfortable with or that arenew to us, if we can reframe
them as an adventure and in turn, look, I wonder what I'm going
to learn.
It allows you, I think, tonavigate that experience or
event more effectively andgracefully, but it also allows
you to be taught, allows you tobe aware and be curious about.
Okay, what am I going to learnon this.
And here again, instead ofdreading it's like, oh no, not
(20:21):
this again, or oh, I can't dothis, you're reframing it and
saying, hmm, this is going to bean adventure.
That's a Pearl Habit.
So, taking either an emotion, afeeling, an experience that
causes you that is that irritant, or the challenge, and
designing how you're going torespond to it, instead of
(20:42):
reacting, then you can design amore positive life and more
positive response, which usuallyends up with a positive result.
So that's why it's called.
You know, that's why we decidedto call it Pearl Habits, and
Pearl Habits simply emerged from, basically, the way that I
needed to use tiny habits tocope with the challenges that I
was facing.
(21:03):
And even today says, hey, thisis really where it was.
You know this, pearl Habitsallowed you to cope, and still
allows me to cope, with constantchange and challenges that
cause us to be uncomfortablesometimes.
Well, because a lot of the people that we work with
and coach are wanting to make achange and they're coming from.
(21:23):
Why do I act this way in ameeting or why do I feel this
way?
So using the Pearl Habittechnique is beneficial and I
know I've had some, some peoplethat I've I've worked with that,
just to kind of, when I turn onmy zoom I will do something.
You know, I mean really tothink more positively, but it's
(21:45):
all about changing the mindsetto making it more positive.
Linda Fogg-Phillips (21:49):
Exactly, In fact.
Let me share another.
This is sort of a funny example, but this is where Pearl Habits
really helped diffuse my anger,Because sometimes our mindsets
were irritated or angry or putout about something.
About three years ago, mycatalytic converter was stolen
out of my Sequoia.
(22:11):
I have a 2002 Sequoia.
I love it.
It has over 200,000 miles on it.
But I went out one morning tostart it and it sounded like a
freight train.
I didn't know what was going onand I called my son.
He goes.
Well, look underneath your carand you know we discovered that
my Cadillac converter had beenstolen.
Well, this was in the middle ofthe pandemic and so parts were
(22:31):
very, very limited.
You know, parts were very, verylimited.
Supply chain issues were real.
I took my car to the shop andthey said oh yeah, it's going to
be about $2,500 and we're goingto need three months to get
this part in.
So it's like that wasirritating.
But I still needed to drive mycar.
Sure, I mean, I couldn't justpark it and not drive it.
And so I would go out and startmy car.
Every time I'd start it.
(22:52):
I sort of forgot that mycatalytic converter wasn't there
, so it'd be really loudwhenever I started.
That it would scare me.
Then I'd get angry.
It's like, dang those guys.
But then I would just startgetting angry and irritated and
then my day would go downhillfrom there.
Then I realized I think it tookme about a week.
It's like man, this is aperfect opportunity to create a
Pearl habit, and so the Pearlhabit that I designed was when I
(23:14):
start my car and hear therumble of my engine, I'll remind
myself I'm grateful they leftthe rest of my car.
That's good, and just thatlittle change, right, you know,
just oh, I'm so glad I have therest of my car.
Um, and celebrating that reallychanged my mindset and, you
know, sort of made me chuckle atthe fact.
Oh yeah, because I have had awhole car stolen before yes, yes
(23:36):
, a whole car.
Yes, and so you know that's uh,you know an opportunity or a
time where you can, whensomething like that makes you
angry or upset or irritate, youdesign how you're going to
respond to that and, as a result, I was able to diffuse my anger
or my sense of irritation overthe fact that I was very
inconvenienced for a period oftime.
Judy Oskam (23:58):
So well, I I always you know, as a Gallup strengths
coach, I always ask people totalk about their strengths and I
can.
I can see you have manystrengths, but what?
What do you feel like you'vesort of relied on over the years
?
As when you think about LindaFogg Phillips, you know,
(24:18):
describe one of your strengths.
Linda Fogg-Phillips (24:20):
Okay, Well, this has been a strength of
mine since I was a child and Iam going to call it a strength
because I do see it as astrength and that's I am
stubborn.
And I say that's a strengthbecause I, you know, I get put
in situations or determined wecould call it determined.
I like that.
Judy Oskam (24:37):
you can use that descriptor and call it
determined or focused.
Linda Fogg-Phillips (24:43):
I like that better.
I am determined.
I just feel like you know whenthere's a challenge in front of
us or something that needs to besolved there's a way to solve
it.
We just have to be I was goingto say stubborn enough but
determined enough to figure outwhat that is, to resolve or
solve that problem.
So I love that strength isdetermined.
Judy Oskam (25:05):
Yes, you know, I I look back at my parents went
through something similar towhat, what, what you guys did as
far as the business andeverything.
And I remember watching myparents start over in their 60s,
totally start over in their 60s, and I've reminded my mom about
that she's almost 93 now andthey made it and, you know, made
(25:30):
a good living at the very endand I think that takes such
determination and resilience toreally get back on the horse, if
you will and and actually getback into life, and it's a
matter of what you, what youdecide you're going to do.
(25:51):
So I can tell you I relate toyour story about the business
and the all of that businessbecause I feel, like I was that
I was in a family that wentthrough something similar and
was already out and grown.
But I remember looking back andseeing, wondering how are my
parents doing that, startingover from scratch in their 60s?
(26:13):
Wow, so that's remarkable.
It is, and people do it at otherages and everybody has
challenges.
But but I think you know, whenyou look back at about just the
momentum of change, and thatyou've constantly been able to,
and maybe it is yourdetermination that's kept you
finding another path forward butwhat advice have you received
(26:39):
that's really helped you do that, as far as keep moving forward?
Linda Fogg-Phillips (26:43):
You know, some other advice in here again.
This this comes from BJ andhe's, you know, at a time that I
was really struggling toreinvent myself and to find my
way.
He was so encouraging and hegave me the opportunities grow,
to step into those difficultsituations and learn and grow.
But what he really helped me doand this is sort of part of
(27:07):
celebration actually is he'dalways look back and said, wow,
look how far you've come, orlook what you've done, when I
wouldn't see that.
But he'd say, look where youwere a year ago, see that.
But he'd say, look where youwere a year ago.
And so you know thatencouragement or that advice to
always go okay.
Yeah, you know, today, today,you may not feel like you're
doing as well as you didyesterday, but you know, today
(27:30):
is a different day in differentsituations, in different
circumstances, and you actuallyare doing pretty dang good.
Just take a look at that andgive yourself credit and realize
that we've come a long ways,even from yesterday, if not
yesteryear or even 10 years ago.
We're all making stridesforward.
I think as humans we're alwaysevolving.
We're wanting to be better andso recognizing that, but taking
(27:53):
time to look back and reflectand see how far you've come.
I think is important.
Judy Oskam (27:58):
Well, and I always see you doing that with others.
Why don't we do that as muchwith ourselves, though?
That's a question.
Linda Fogg-Phillips (28:06):
You know that is a good question.
I think it comes down to thefact that it's easier for us to
celebrate others' successes, torecognize and highlight their
successes.
We tend to be veryself-critical and so, as a
result, I think it's harder forus to do on our own.
I do think celebrating andreflecting and really
(28:27):
recognizing how far we've comeis a skill, and it's a skill
that we get better at the morewe do it.
But it does sometimes takesomebody from the outside that
goes, wow, look how far you'vecome, look what you've done.
And sometimes he will evenpoint out things that I didn't
even notice or realize were amilestone or a step, not even
just a milestone, but a stepforward for me.
(28:48):
I often laugh with him.
I started teaching with him atStanford even before Tiny Habits
.
We were working in the space ofonline behavior and he had me
come out to Stanford every otherweek to teach an adult class on
Facebook for parents, which inturn we wrote a book on.
But and I reflect back and it'slike man, BJ, and that was back
(29:08):
in 2009.
I said, you know, the firsttime I got on an airplane and
traveled by myself, without mychildren or my spouse was really
scary for me and I sort oflaugh now because I was on a
plane yesterday was really scaryfor me and I sort of laugh now
because I was- on a planeyesterday, I'm getting on a
plane tomorrow.
I go by myself everywhere now.
But I look back and it's likeit was just foreign to me and
it's because that was not myfocus.
My focus was being astay-at-home mom, sure, and so I
(29:30):
really had the opportunity togo anywhere or travel anywhere
by myself and I really lackedthe confidence that I could do
it.
But once I did it, I found thatit was really quite fun and
very liberating as far as youknow, building confidence in
myself.
So you know, look back on yoursuccesses, look back on your
what you, you know how you'vemoved forward.
(29:51):
Look back on you know where youwere, even a year ago, and
where you're at now.
Now sometimes you might say,well, I'm not any better off
than I was a year ago, butactually I think if you look
closely, you probably are.
Judy Oskam (30:02):
You're not looking at the right thing.
Yes, yes.
Well, if we take this ahead ayear and you look back, what
does 24 hold for you?
What ?
Linda Fogg-Phillips (30:14):
You know, in 2024, I really feel that I am
called to take Pearl Habits outinto the world.
That really is, and you knowthat method pretty well.
You know very well, judy, yeah,and you know how it can give
people that hope and evidencethat they can change.
I see it, I see it, and justgive them back confidence.
I guess it was, oh man how longago.
(30:38):
It was probably in 2018.
Bj and I were on the stagetogether and, um, it was really
interesting and and, as you know, I'm pretty religious and I do
feel that God is in our livesand I feel like he directs us,
but we have to pay attention.
Yes, we have to listen yes.
Yeah, we don't pay attention, wemiss those Right.
And, um, attention, we missedthose Right.
(31:01):
And this was the first timethat we'd really started talking
about Pearl Habits at all.
And he was on the stage and Iwas doing a breakout and as he
was on the stage, he introducedthe concept of Pearl Habits and
I knew immediately that was mymission, that was my calling to
take that out into the world.
Then I did my workshop, talkedabout Pearl Habits as well, and
after everything was over, wehadn't even really talked about
(31:21):
our presentations at all beforeor after.
But BJ was taking me back to theairport.
I was flying back here to LasVegas where I live, and this was
I remember it so well, it wasin October and he says hey,
linda, I got you an earlybirthday present.
I said Okay, what is it?
He says I bought you thePearlHhabitscom website.
He said that's your brand,that's your domain, that's your
(31:42):
purpose, and so I've known thisfor a while.
It's and I've I reallycommitted to, and during the
pandemic was the time that Ireally should, you know, go back
to the shoulds, but shouldsdon't do us any good should have
rolled it out during thepandemic, but I was so focused
on the tiny habits you werebuilding, your coaching team too
(32:05):
, so yeah, and so, and even bjwould every, every so often say
well, how are pro habits coming?
how are pro habits coming?
Let's say I'm working on it.
I did get a website up lastyear, so I was and I did start
recording a podcast.
It's not launched yet.
That's on 2020.
Fantastic, yes, probably getsome pointers from you on that
Love it.
(32:27):
But I have designated, and Iknow this, and even some of the
professionals I've worked with,like the company, the gentleman
that runs the company that builtmy website, he knows me pretty
well and he kept saying you'recalled to do this, you're called
to do this.
And so the last six months I'vereally been trying to make
space to fulfill this callingand I'm stepping into that for
(32:47):
2024.
Do or die.
Hopefully it's not the day Ilove it, I love it and I need
help from experts like you, judy.
Judy Oskam (32:55):
Well, we, I will be glad to help you with that,
because I'm talking with someeducators right now and Pearl
Habits fits right in thatmindset, so it's a perfect time
for this.
Oh, that's fantastic.
Linda Fogg-Phillips (33:09):
I'm just excited because I know how much
hope it gives people.
I know what it's done for me tochange my life and make it more
fulfilled.
I guess is the best thing to doin the midst of all the turmoil
, and so I'm just so excited totake that out to 2024.
So that's my goal, that's whatI love it.
Judy Oskam (33:27):
I love it.
Well, that's fantastic.
Well, Linda, thanks so much forchatting with us today and
again, we'll look forward tolearning more about Pearl Habits
.
We'll put information in theshow notes.
Any last comments you have forthe audience.
Linda Fogg-Phillips (33:41):
The only last comment I have is believe
in yourself and celebrate everysingle day.
Judy Oskam (33:46):
Okay, you heard it here Celebrate.
Celebrate every single day.
Well, thanks for listening toStories of Change and Creativity
.
You can find more about ourguest in the show notes.
Please subscribe and leave areview on your favorite podcast
player and remember if you'vegot a story to share or know
someone who does reach out to meat judyoskam.
com.
(34:07):
Thanks for listening.
Welcome to Stories of Change and Creativity.
I'm Judy Oskam.
As a university professor,administrator and former
journalist, I love interviewingpeople who inspire, educate and
motivate People like Linda FoggPhillips.
Linda has a story aboutreinvention, growth and a
(00:23):
calling to serve.
You'll also learn about PearlHabits in this interview.
Linda is on a mission to helpothers live a happier and
healthier life.
She is the CEO and co-founderof the Tiny Habits Academy.
Her work focuses on behaviorchange and habit design and, as
(00:44):
the mother of eight children,Linda has had her own behavior
change and habit designlaboratory in her own home for
more than 40 years.
Well, Linda does share some ofthe tragedies and the
heartbreaks in her life, but shealso tells us how she made it
through.
I hope you enjoy thisconversation as much as I did .
(01:06):
In the last 15 years.
It has been like one changeafter another, after another
after another none of them ofwhich I anticipated or ever
thought I'd have to deal withand the first one the first,
basically the first domino thattipped, the first shoe that
dropped, however you want torefer to.
It occurred well, reallyoccurred in 2008.
And that's when a lot of thingsin my world were starting to
(01:29):
fall apart.
We were home builders here inLas Vegas.
Very, very successful homebuilders had a company for 25
years.
Net worth was $30 million.
It was a really successfulcompany.
Wow.
We were a privately ownedcompany, meaning we owned it all
.
Sure, sure, it was a reallysuccessful company.
We were a privately ownedcompany, meaning we owned it all
.
Sure, many family members mychildren, my son-in-law and if
(01:51):
you look back to those years,that's when the housing
recession was really starting toget into full swing and every
place in the US started to fallapart.
Even public builders that haddeep pockets started to fall
apart.
The little builders that wewere really didn't stand a
chance, but we fought good andhard and we hung on for quite a
while.
But 2008, as I look back tothat year.
(02:12):
That really was the pivotalyear for not only struggling
financially and struggling withour home building business, but
that also was the time that welost my 20-year-old son to an
accidental Oxycontin overdose,and so it just seemed like the
world was falling down around myfeet.
You know, adapting to and myson, his name was Garrett.
I have eight children.
(02:33):
He was the third of our eight.
Just, you know, he really waswell and even my kids say he was
the golden child and I'm notgoing to deny that.
I'm not going to that.
Yeah, yeah, I'm not going to.
All my kids are amazing.
I love them all equally, ofcourse, but Garrett was
everybody's golden sibling orgolden child cause he was just
(02:54):
so kind and generous and just socaring and unfortunately, his
death really put us all on atailspin.
And this was an unexpecteddeath and the history behind him
getting on oxycodone was verytragic.
He was a high school athleteand was one of the high school
coaches.
It was an injury, huh yeah, andhis high school coach
(03:18):
introduced him to stackablesteroids that then led to pain
meds that unfortunately, he gotaddicted to and just could not
kick it.
So that was a monumental changethat took me a while.
I don't know.
I don't know that you can everget over that.
How do you ever get over that ?
Linda Fogg-Phillips (03:35):
You don't, you don't, judy, you don't ever
get over the loss of a child.
It's something that I had avery wise friend, and I'm going
to share this advice because itwas really helped me, not just
through the loss of Garrett, butsubsequently.
Three years ago, I lost myhusband as well to early onset
Alzheimer's.
Um, and a friend of mine,Ji mAnderson, told me he said, Linda
(03:57):
, people will tell you that timewill heal, and this was in in
relationship.
This was um about three daysafter Garrett passed and Jim
came over to visit us and hesaid, Linda, people will tell
you, time will heal, he says.
But don't believe them, that'sa lie.
All time allows you to do is tolearn to live with the pain,
and I have found that to bereally true.
It's true.
Yeah, and having had Jim sharethat with me, it helped me
(04:22):
revise my expectations.
Instead of saying, oh, whyaren't I getting over this, or
why is this still a problem forme, or why am I still depressed
about the loss of my son, Irealized that it was going to
take some time for me to learnto live with this new reality of
mine.
And I will tell you, thatjourney has been a bittersweet
(04:43):
journey, as I'm sure you canimagine.
Sure, the first probably threeor four years, and so this was
about 15 years ago.
About the first three or fouryears, I struggled to function,
I truly struggled to function,and I finally got to the point
in my life where some of thethings that would cause me a lot
(05:03):
of pain or sorrow, that wouldbring back up that wound in my
heart the loss of my son I thenstarted to embrace and I didn't
realize that the pain that I wasfeeling was because I loved him
.
So that was a shift and achange, not so much in mindset
but in the allowing time to helpme learn how to live in a
positive manner in the face ofsuch a negative and difficult
(05:26):
situation.
Even today it's been this manyyears.
You know I never work onGarrett's birthday and I never
work.
Or you know I never make planson his birthday or on what we
call his angel day.
Judy Oskam (05:38):
And you guys have a big celebration on that day,
don't you ?
Linda Fogg-Phillips (05:41):
Yeah, we always even my kids that live
out of town come into town andespecially on his angel day,
we'll go to his favorite sushirestaurant and we really
celebrate his life again,instead of just sort of pushing
it aside or ignoring or tryingto pretend that never happened,
because really reality is it didhappen and it did impact all of
us.
And so the years have allowedme to adapt and start to embrace
(06:05):
those feelings of pain, inacknowledgement of the fact that
that was unconditional lovethat I had for my child, and so
that was a big shift for me.
But in that same year, in 2008,when we started to lose
everything losing our home,building business.
Eventually we lost our home.
(06:25):
We lost our five-acre ranch.
We had to file Chapter 7bankruptcy where we had nothing
left because my husband hadpersonally guaranteed a number
of land, loans and things.
It necessitated a very drasticchange of life for us.
I had eight horses at that time.
(06:46):
I had to either sell or givethem away.
It's sort of like a fire cellbecause we had to move out of
our home pretty quickly becausethe bank was taking it back.
They wouldn't work with us onit.
But everybody I mean noteverybody, but that was sort of
a common thread that people werelosing their homes and losing
their properties and losingtheir businesses right and left,
especially people that hadanything to do with home
building.
I never expected that at thatpoint in time I would need to go
(07:12):
back to work or I would need tohelp support my family, and I
did so a little bit hesitantly.
You know I was a full-time mom.
That's what I love doing with abig family.
Yes, yes, my youngest child was11 at the time and I'd had a
charmed really a charmed life upuntil then.
Sure, I had the privilege andthe opportunity to stay home
(07:34):
with my children.
They were in private school, wehad a beautiful horse ranch, we
did a lot of extracurricularactivities around horses and
around sports, and I had thefreedom and the ability to do
that.
So when my world was turnedupside down and it's like, wow,
I think I need to do somethingto help support the family
because I have a good education,it's like maybe I need to
(07:55):
bridge this gap for a little bituntil we get back on our feet
with home building, I knew itwould come back.
My husband was a very, very goodentrepreneur, but what I didn't
know is that was not God's plan.
Yeah, and shortly after that,in 2014, as we were trying to
put the pieces back together onmany things, you know not just
(08:15):
the ramifications of losing myson, but losing our home,
building business, needing tomove, you know, uproot my
children, pull them out ofprivate schools, just you name
it everything changed and thebankruptcy just really it was
really difficult to go through.
It was never in my life that Ithink that we would need to do
that.
I was actually, I'll be honest,I was actually pretty upset
(08:38):
with my husband for personal andguaranteeing loans, but that's
the nature of the business, andso for a little while I had to
navigate through that.
But then, in 2014, my husbandwas diagnosed with early onset
Alzheimer's at the age of 58.
Judy Oskam (08:53):
Oh, so young.
Linda Fogg-Phillips (08:55):
And then I realized, okay, this is not a
temporary situation for me toneed to help support my family.
This is now going to be my role.
And, judy, as I say that and Iknow there's, you know, a lot of
implications there.
But as I look back on that andas I say that there's a lot of
things I had to step into andhad to move forward with courage
(09:17):
because I had no other choice.
There just wasn't anotherchoice.
And as I look back, I am andthis is gonna sound funny, but I
am so grateful that I had thatopportunity to step into the
role that I'm currently in.
I would have never paired upwith BJ to build out the Habits
Academy.
I would have never been evenmotivated or needed to be in the
(09:42):
position that I'm in now, and Ilove what I'm doing.
I love the people I'm workingwith.
Like yourself, I love givingpeople back that hope and
evidence change and that theskills and tools that they can
implement to navigate reallydifficult changes and come back
through it on the other sidebetter than before.
(10:03):
I've learned this the hard wayand I don't want it to be so
hard for others.
So when you say, well, what wasthe pivotal change.
What was the most impactfulchange?
It's not one specific, but itwas sort of a period of time
where I had to decide is thisgoing to destroy me or am I
going to rise above this?
And obviously I chose thelatter and I'm still rising
(10:24):
above it.
I think we still are, but Ilook back and the blessings and
the opportunities that I've hadas a result would have never
come to me without thosechallenges that I faced.
Judy Oskam (10:33):
Well, I think, right there, you're also talking a
lot about mindset, too, and thefact that, because all of those
instances, any one of thoseevents, would be enough to just
knock somebody flat, any one ofthose events would be enough to
just knock somebody flat, andthe fact that you kept going and
going and you went from one toanother, and that resilience, I
(10:58):
think, is something that I love,the fact that you've actually
looked back and sort of analyzedthat, because that, I think,
helps you grow right.
Linda Fogg-Phillips (11:02):
Yes, oh yes , and I'm very analytical, and
so when things are going wrong,or even when things are going
right, it's like okay, why?
Why did that happen?
And you know, getting stuck inthe why is not helpful.
It's very helpful.
You know why?
Me?
I think that's a very a lot ofus have gotten stuck in that
mindset, especially in the midstof turmoil.
(11:24):
That's a very a lot of us havegotten stuck in that mindset,
especially in the midst ofturmoil.
Well, why me?
Well, why not?
But it's not so much why.
You know, understanding, youknow.
But now understanding, okay,taking that that you learned, or
the situation surrounding that,and how are you going to
leverage that to be better?
There's a saying that I oftenshare with my children and it's
be better, not bitter.
(11:45):
It's really easy to be bitterabout what life hands us and be
bitter about the changes thatare thrust upon us, but that
doesn't help, that doesn't doanything.
Judy Oskam (11:55):
No, no, no.
Linda Fogg-Phillips (11:56):
The challenge is just to be better
because of it.
Rise above it and be a betterperson and make the world around
you better as a result.
Judy Oskam (12:04):
Well, again, that's a choice, though, and again, you
made those choices, and I thinkback and I look at all of the
challenges that you had and whata good role model you have been
for your own children andgrandchildren now, because now
(12:24):
and have you thought about thatthat everything you're doing as
moms right, they're watching usall the time.
Even though they're grown,they're watching us.
Linda Fogg-Phillips (12:34):
You know thank you for saying that, Judy,
that actually I felt aresponsibility, not necessarily
to be a role model, but I felt aresponsibility to be my best
self for their benefit.
Judy Oskam (12:46):
For them, yes, yes for them.
Linda Fogg-Phillips (12:48):
And also, you know, during the time that
my husband was alive but stilldeclining, I needed to show up
as my best self because I owedit to him and I owed it to my
children.
I do know and they'vereferenced this several times
that when they're facing theirown challenges which they do my
children are now adults.
(13:08):
They have their own families,they have their own day in and
day out, big challenges as wellas little challenges, and it
doesn't matter if they're big orlittle.
They're still challenges.
They still are changes that youneed to navigate, and I know
that I've given my children somehope that they can do it too.
And, to be really honest, mylifeline through all of these
challenges was tiny habits, yes,which then evolved into, as you
(13:31):
know, pearl habits, which istaking the challenge and
creating beauty out of it.
Pearl Habits, which is takingthe challenge and creating
beauty out of it, like thatgrain of sand making a pearl,
making a gem out of thatirritant or that challenge that
you have, as opposed to allowingit to cause you to be bitter
and to deteriorate or to haveyour relationships deteriorate.
I have one daughter right nowthat's having a lot of
(13:52):
challenges with mental health.
She has bipolar illness andalso has a borderline
personality disorder and hasreally struggled the last three
years and I'm hoping that wehave.
I have daily conversations withher and she gets really stuck
in the negative mindset and I'mhoping that the conversations I
have with her, as well as whatwe've been through over the
(14:13):
years, helps her see thatthere's a better way than being
bitter.
In fact, last week I was on acall with her.
I was on a Zoom call with herand she won't mind me sharing
her name.
She's given me permission toshare her name as well.
Her name is Amber and she wascomplaining about something.
She was very negative and I justsaid look, Amber, happiness is
(14:37):
a choice.
And I have a sign in my officedownstairs, the one that I
usually sit in to write and read, and you know I pulled the sign
off of my bookshelf because Ihave it just written on a little
note card.
With a smiley face, I said look, happiness is a choice.
I said I've had this up on mybookshelf for over five years.
I look at it every day toremind myself.
I can choose how I'm going toface this day.
I can choose to be happy or Ican choose to be angry and
(15:00):
bitter and I think I'm startingto get through to her.
You know she's probably theonly child that really struggles
with negativity.
I know a lot of us get stuckwith the negative talk in our
head or narrative that isnegative.
You know, whatever we're goingto tell ourselves, it's going to
be the truth.
Yeah, so you can change yourstory and, just like you said,
(15:23):
judy, we can choose to be happy.
We can choose to live adifferent story than the
negative story we're tellingourselves.
Judy Oskam (15:30):
Well, and that's why I love Pearl Habits and talk a
little bit about Pearl Habits.
And how did that come to be?
Because people who listen tothis podcast and they you know,
we'll put in the show notesinformation about Tiny Habits
but talk about Pearl Habits.
Because to me, I think that'sfantastic, because a lot of the
(15:50):
changes we want to make arecoming from a negative spot, a
negative place.
Yeah, and, like I said, they'rethrust upon us.
They're not necessarily ourchoice to make those changes,
but we have to adapt, we have tobe resilient.
Pearl, habits emerged during myjourney of really struggling
through some of the challengesthat I just shared with you,
along with other challenges thatemerged during all of this as
(16:14):
well, as you can imagine.
And one day well, it was in theearly days of Tiny Habits One
day I was talking to BJ you knowBJ, who designed the Tiny
Habits method, who's my brother.
We're very, very close and I was.
I was pretty depressed, I waspretty apathetic, and I it was
not.
It was probably about the youknow, three years or so after
(16:36):
Garrett had passed away, and Iwas just really in a bad spot
mentally and emotionally.
And one day BJ said hey, linda,why don't you try this tiny
habit recipe?
We didn't have a name for itthen, but he said it goes like
this After your feet hit thefloor in the morning, I will
tell myself it's going to be agreat day.
And then, as you know, with thetiny habits method, one of the
(17:03):
most important parts of it isreinforcing the behavior that
you're wanting to create as a,as a habit, with a positive
emotion, and I would just do twothumbs up and say, yes, you've
got this way to go, that habit Ihave done every single day
since that point in time.
What happened in this?
And you know, I was sort ofscoffing at BJ, not at him, but
it's like, oh, brother, hethinks that's good.
Yes, yes, like really, come on,bj, seriously.
(17:24):
But I thought, why not?
You know he's a pretty smartguy, it's not going to hurt me
to do that.
So why not try it?
And we have a close enoughrelationship that you know we're
comfortable challenging eachother on things and just say hey
, but I said, okay, I'll try it.
I said I'll try it.
It probably won't work, butI'll try it.
Here again, my negative mindsetand within three days, what I
(17:46):
saw was a complete shift in mymindset and a shift in my
demeanor and I thought, wow,isn't that interesting.
And as I looked at that andhere again evaluated, why did it
have such an impact on me?
What I noticed happened is ittook me out of my victim mindset
and put me into a victormindset, just by starting my day
off with it's going to be agreat day and celebrating,
(18:08):
releasing the endorphins anddopamine that happens when you
celebrate.
As a result what I starteddoing, as the you know, I'd
start my day off with that.
But as a result what I starteddoing, as the you know, I start
my day off with that.
But as a result, I startedlooking for the good things in
my day.
What's going to make my daygreat, what are the great things
that would happen that I didn'teven plan, or great things that
I would then make sure happened, and so my focus was more on
(18:29):
the positive than the negative.
That has been transformativefor me.
In fact, I have told BJ I thinkhe saved my life because I was
in such a dark spot at thatpoint in time that he gave me
that tool to implement.
That has really positivelyimpacted me and that's one of my
favorite recipes.
We now call it the Maui habit,yeah, but also so I consider
(18:50):
that a pearl habit, becauseyou're taking a negative
situation or difficult situationand you're looking at it
differently.
What I also saw is it gave mepermission to look at the
positive things in my life, asopposed to be drawn into the
negative or drawn intoeverything that was going poorly
(19:10):
.
It really helped me realizethere's a lot of things that are
going well and to continue tofocus on those, as opposed to
the opposite.
Another pearl habit that I useoften and there's many, many of
them Another pearl habit that Iuse often is when I get in a
situation that is new to me, orI'm uncomfortable or, it's like,
causes anxiety, and I, you know, it's like, oh man, I've never
(19:34):
done this.
This is causing me to beuncomfortable.
I tell myself and here again,that's you know, when I'm
feeling uncomfortable or when Iget into a situation that causes
me anxiety, I will tell myself,oh, this is going to be a new
adventure.
I wonder what I'm going to learn.
Now.
Adventures are fun, right,right, right, y'all don't want
(19:58):
to go on a fun adventure, and soif we can reframe those
challenging events or situationsin our life that we're
uncomfortable with or that arenew to us, if we can reframe
them as an adventure and in turn, look, I wonder what I'm going
to learn.
It allows you, I think, tonavigate that experience or
event more effectively andgracefully, but it also allows
you to be taught, allows you tobe aware and be curious about.
Okay, what am I going to learnon this.
And here again, instead ofdreading it's like, oh no, not
(20:21):
this again, or oh, I can't dothis, you're reframing it and
saying, hmm, this is going to bean adventure.
That's a Pearl Habit.
So, taking either an emotion, afeeling, an experience that
causes you that is that irritant, or the challenge, and
designing how you're going torespond to it, instead of
(20:42):
reacting, then you can design amore positive life and more
positive response, which usuallyends up with a positive result.
So that's why it's called.
You know, that's why we decidedto call it Pearl Habits, and
Pearl Habits simply emerged from, basically, the way that I
needed to use tiny habits tocope with the challenges that I
was facing.
(21:03):
And even today says, hey, thisis really where it was.
You know this, pearl Habitsallowed you to cope, and still
allows me to cope, with constantchange and challenges that
cause us to be uncomfortablesometimes.
Well, because a lot of the people that we work with
and coach are wanting to make achange and they're coming from.
(21:23):
Why do I act this way in ameeting or why do I feel this
way?
So using the Pearl Habittechnique is beneficial and I
know I've had some, some peoplethat I've I've worked with that,
just to kind of, when I turn onmy zoom I will do something.
You know, I mean really tothink more positively, but it's
(21:45):
all about changing the mindsetto making it more positive.
Linda Fogg-Phillips (21:49):
Exactly, In fact.
Let me share another.
This is sort of a funny example, but this is where Pearl Habits
really helped diffuse my anger,Because sometimes our mindsets
were irritated or angry or putout about something.
About three years ago, mycatalytic converter was stolen
out of my Sequoia.
(22:11):
I have a 2002 Sequoia.
I love it.
It has over 200,000 miles on it.
But I went out one morning tostart it and it sounded like a
freight train.
I didn't know what was going onand I called my son.
He goes.
Well, look underneath your carand you know we discovered that
my Cadillac converter had beenstolen.
Well, this was in the middle ofthe pandemic and so parts were
(22:31):
very, very limited.
You know, parts were very, verylimited.
Supply chain issues were real.
I took my car to the shop andthey said oh yeah, it's going to
be about $2,500 and we're goingto need three months to get
this part in.
So it's like that wasirritating.
But I still needed to drive mycar.
Sure, I mean, I couldn't justpark it and not drive it.
And so I would go out and startmy car.
Every time I'd start it.
(22:52):
I sort of forgot that mycatalytic converter wasn't there
, so it'd be really loudwhenever I started.
That it would scare me.
Then I'd get angry.
It's like, dang those guys.
But then I would just startgetting angry and irritated and
then my day would go downhillfrom there.
Then I realized I think it tookme about a week.
It's like man, this is aperfect opportunity to create a
Pearl habit, and so the Pearlhabit that I designed was when I
(23:14):
start my car and hear therumble of my engine, I'll remind
myself I'm grateful they leftthe rest of my car.
That's good, and just thatlittle change, right, you know,
just oh, I'm so glad I have therest of my car.
Um, and celebrating that reallychanged my mindset and, you
know, sort of made me chuckle atthe fact.
Oh yeah, because I have had awhole car stolen before yes, yes
(23:36):
, a whole car.
Yes, and so you know that's uh,you know an opportunity or a
time where you can, whensomething like that makes you
angry or upset or irritate, youdesign how you're going to
respond to that and, as a result, I was able to diffuse my anger
or my sense of irritation overthe fact that I was very
inconvenienced for a period oftime.
Judy Oskam (23:58):
So well, I I always you know, as a Gallup strengths
coach, I always ask people totalk about their strengths and I
can.
I can see you have manystrengths, but what?
What do you feel like you'vesort of relied on over the years
?
As when you think about LindaFogg Phillips, you know,
(24:18):
describe one of your strengths.
Linda Fogg-Phillips (24:20):
Okay, Well, this has been a strength of
mine since I was a child and Iam going to call it a strength
because I do see it as astrength and that's I am
stubborn.
And I say that's a strengthbecause I, you know, I get put
in situations or determined wecould call it determined.
I like that.
Judy Oskam (24:37):
you can use that descriptor and call it
determined or focused.
Linda Fogg-Phillips (24:43):
I like that better.
I am determined.
I just feel like you know whenthere's a challenge in front of
us or something that needs to besolved there's a way to solve
it.
We just have to be I was goingto say stubborn enough but
determined enough to figure outwhat that is, to resolve or
solve that problem.
So I love that strength isdetermined.
Judy Oskam (25:05):
Yes, you know, I I look back at my parents went
through something similar towhat, what, what you guys did as
far as the business andeverything.
And I remember watching myparents start over in their 60s,
totally start over in their 60s, and I've reminded my mom about
that she's almost 93 now andthey made it and, you know, made
(25:30):
a good living at the very endand I think that takes such
determination and resilience toreally get back on the horse, if
you will and and actually getback into life, and it's a
matter of what you, what youdecide you're going to do.
(25:51):
So I can tell you I relate toyour story about the business
and the all of that businessbecause I feel, like I was that
I was in a family that wentthrough something similar and
was already out and grown.
But I remember looking back andseeing, wondering how are my
parents doing that, startingover from scratch in their 60s?
(26:13):
Wow, so that's remarkable.
It is, and people do it at otherages and everybody has
challenges.
But but I think you know, whenyou look back at about just the
momentum of change, and thatyou've constantly been able to,
and maybe it is yourdetermination that's kept you
finding another path forward butwhat advice have you received
(26:39):
that's really helped you do that, as far as keep moving forward?
Linda Fogg-Phillips (26:43):
You know, some other advice in here again.
This this comes from BJ andhe's, you know, at a time that I
was really struggling toreinvent myself and to find my
way.
He was so encouraging and hegave me the opportunities grow,
to step into those difficultsituations and learn and grow.
But what he really helped me doand this is sort of part of
(27:07):
celebration actually is he'dalways look back and said, wow,
look how far you've come, orlook what you've done, when I
wouldn't see that.
But he'd say, look where youwere a year ago, see that.
But he'd say, look where youwere a year ago.
And so you know thatencouragement or that advice to
always go okay.
Yeah, you know, today, today,you may not feel like you're
doing as well as you didyesterday, but you know, today
(27:30):
is a different day in differentsituations, in different
circumstances, and you actuallyare doing pretty dang good.
Just take a look at that andgive yourself credit and realize
that we've come a long ways,even from yesterday, if not
yesteryear or even 10 years ago.
We're all making stridesforward.
I think as humans we're alwaysevolving.
We're wanting to be better andso recognizing that, but taking
(27:53):
time to look back and reflectand see how far you've come.
I think is important.
Judy Oskam (27:58):
Well, and I always see you doing that with others.
Why don't we do that as muchwith ourselves, though?
That's a question.
Linda Fogg-Phillips (28:06):
You know that is a good question.
I think it comes down to thefact that it's easier for us to
celebrate others' successes, torecognize and highlight their
successes.
We tend to be veryself-critical and so, as a
result, I think it's harder forus to do on our own.
I do think celebrating andreflecting and really
(28:27):
recognizing how far we've comeis a skill, and it's a skill
that we get better at the morewe do it.
But it does sometimes takesomebody from the outside that
goes, wow, look how far you'vecome, look what you've done.
And sometimes he will evenpoint out things that I didn't
even notice or realize were amilestone or a step, not even
just a milestone, but a stepforward for me.
(28:48):
I often laugh with him.
I started teaching with him atStanford even before Tiny Habits
.
We were working in the space ofonline behavior and he had me
come out to Stanford every otherweek to teach an adult class on
Facebook for parents, which inturn we wrote a book on.
But and I reflect back and it'slike man, BJ, and that was back
(29:08):
in 2009.
I said, you know, the firsttime I got on an airplane and
traveled by myself, without mychildren or my spouse was really
scary for me and I sort oflaugh now because I was on a
plane yesterday was really scaryfor me and I sort of laugh now
because I was- on a planeyesterday, I'm getting on a
plane tomorrow.
I go by myself everywhere now.
But I look back and it's likeit was just foreign to me and
it's because that was not myfocus.
My focus was being astay-at-home mom, sure, and so I
(29:30):
really had the opportunity togo anywhere or travel anywhere
by myself and I really lackedthe confidence that I could do
it.
But once I did it, I found thatit was really quite fun and
very liberating as far as youknow, building confidence in
myself.
So you know, look back on yoursuccesses, look back on your
what you, you know how you'vemoved forward.
(29:51):
Look back on you know where youwere, even a year ago, and
where you're at now.
Now sometimes you might say,well, I'm not any better off
than I was a year ago, butactually I think if you look
closely, you probably are.
Judy Oskam (30:02):
You're not looking at the right thing.
Yes, yes.
Well, if we take this ahead ayear and you look back, what
does 24 hold for you?
What ?
Linda Fogg-Phillips (30:14):
You know, in 2024, I really feel that I am
called to take Pearl Habits outinto the world.
That really is, and you knowthat method pretty well.
You know very well, judy, yeah,and you know how it can give
people that hope and evidencethat they can change.
I see it, I see it, and justgive them back confidence.
I guess it was, oh man how longago.
(30:38):
It was probably in 2018.
Bj and I were on the stagetogether and, um, it was really
interesting and and, as you know, I'm pretty religious and I do
feel that God is in our livesand I feel like he directs us,
but we have to pay attention.
Yes, we have to listen yes.
Yeah, we don't pay attention, wemiss those Right.
And, um, attention, we missedthose Right.
(31:01):
And this was the first timethat we'd really started talking
about Pearl Habits at all.
And he was on the stage and Iwas doing a breakout and as he
was on the stage, he introducedthe concept of Pearl Habits and
I knew immediately that was mymission, that was my calling to
take that out into the world.
Then I did my workshop, talkedabout Pearl Habits as well, and
after everything was over, wehadn't even really talked about
(31:21):
our presentations at all beforeor after.
But BJ was taking me back to theairport.
I was flying back here to LasVegas where I live, and this was
I remember it so well, it wasin October and he says hey,
linda, I got you an earlybirthday present.
I said Okay, what is it?
He says I bought you thePearlHhabitscom website.
He said that's your brand,that's your domain, that's your
(31:42):
purpose, and so I've known thisfor a while.
It's and I've I reallycommitted to, and during the
pandemic was the time that Ireally should, you know, go back
to the shoulds, but shouldsdon't do us any good should have
rolled it out during thepandemic, but I was so focused
on the tiny habits you werebuilding, your coaching team too
(32:05):
, so yeah, and so, and even bjwould every, every so often say
well, how are pro habits coming?
how are pro habits coming?
Let's say I'm working on it.
I did get a website up lastyear, so I was and I did start
recording a podcast.
It's not launched yet.
That's on 2020.
Fantastic, yes, probably getsome pointers from you on that
Love it.
(32:27):
But I have designated, and Iknow this, and even some of the
professionals I've worked with,like the company, the gentleman
that runs the company that builtmy website, he knows me pretty
well and he kept saying you'recalled to do this, you're called
to do this.
And so the last six months I'vereally been trying to make
space to fulfill this callingand I'm stepping into that for
(32:47):
2024.
Do or die.
Hopefully it's not the day Ilove it, I love it and I need
help from experts like you, judy.
Judy Oskam (32:55):
Well, we, I will be glad to help you with that,
because I'm talking with someeducators right now and Pearl
Habits fits right in thatmindset, so it's a perfect time
for this.
Oh, that's fantastic.
Linda Fogg-Phillips (33:09):
I'm just excited because I know how much
hope it gives people.
I know what it's done for me tochange my life and make it more
fulfilled.
I guess is the best thing to doin the midst of all the turmoil
, and so I'm just so excited totake that out to 2024.
So that's my goal, that's whatI love it.
Judy Oskam (33:27):
I love it.
Well, that's fantastic.
Well, Linda, thanks so much forchatting with us today and
again, we'll look forward tolearning more about Pearl Habits
.
We'll put information in theshow notes.
Any last comments you have forthe audience.
Linda Fogg-Phillips (33:41):
The only last comment I have is believe
in yourself and celebrate everysingle day.
Judy Oskam (33:46):
Okay, you heard it here Celebrate.
Celebrate every single day.
Well, thanks for listening toStories of Change and Creativity
.
You can find more about ourguest in the show notes.
Please subscribe and leave areview on your favorite podcast
player and remember if you'vegot a story to share or know
someone who does reach out to meat judyoskam.
com.
(34:07):
Thanks for listening.
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