June 24, 2026 • 49 mins
Send us a text message and tell us your thoughts.
Caribbean food travels the world as flavor, nostalgia, and restaurant culture but what if it also traveled as real economic infrastructure? We’re asking a harder question: how do we move from beloved recipes to Caribbean food systems that reduce import dependence, strengthen food security, and create durable industries across the region. I’m joined by Taymer Mason, a Barbadian food scientist and Caribbean product developer with more than 20 years of experience across food safety, kitchens, and innovation. Taymer breaks down why so many islands still carry a massive import bill even when breadfruit, cassava, and fruit trees are all around us, and why the missing piece is often not farming alone but systems: consistent raw materials, regional cooperation, accessible financing, shelf-life testing, packaging options, and reliable transport between islands.
We also get practical about what “legacy products” look like, why shelf-stable ambient foods often scale better than cold-chain exports, and how standardizing recipes can protect quality as brands grow. Taymer shares eye-opening stories, from green seasoning selling better when people used it like a dip, to learning from boxed fufu as a convenience model, to reimagining moringa as an everyday seasoning that boosts nutrition. Then we zoom out to solutions: farmer-producer planning, government policy changes, white labeling pathways, CARICOM-style data sharing on crop gluts, and smarter diaspora investment that builds market pipelines, warehouses, and storefronts. If you care about Caribbean agriculture, sustainable food entrepreneurship, disaster resilience, and the future of Caribbean economies, this conversation is for you.
Taymer Mason is a food scientist, cookbook author, and entrepreneur based in Barbados. She is the founder of Harbourvale Foods, a modern Caribbean vegan pantry brand built on clean-label formulation and plant-based food science. Her debut cookbook, Caribbean Vegan, has been in print for sixteen years and holds a starred Library Journal review. Taymer's work sits at the intersection of Caribbean culinary heritage and innovation, with a deep conviction that the region's food systems deserve both scientific rigour and world-class storytelling.
Connect with Strictly Facts - Instagram | Facebook | Twitter | LinkedIn | YouTube | WebsiteLooking to read more about the topics covered in this episode? Subscribe to the newsletter at www.strictlyfactspod.com to get the Strictly Facts Syllabus to your email!
Want to Support Strictly Facts?
- Rate & Leave a Review on your favorite platform
- Share this episode with someone or online and tag us
- Send us a DM or voice note to have your thoughts featured on an upcoming episode
- Donate to help us continue empowering listeners with Caribbean history and education
Produced by Breadfruit Media
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome to Strictly Facts, a Guide to Caribbean
History and Culture, hosted byme, Dr.
Alexandria Miller.
Strictly Facts teaches thehistory, politics, and activism
of the Caribbean and connectsthese themes to contemporary
music and popular culture.
Hello, hello, people WagyuanPangwata Guan, and welcome back
(00:22):
to another episode of StrictlyFacts, a guide to Caribbean
history and culture, where weexplore the ideas, the
histories, and innovationsshaping the Caribbean and its
global diaspora.
Today's episode takes us intothe world of food, but not the
way we often think about it.
When Caribbean food entersglobal conversations, it's
usually through recipes,restaurants, or even tourism, a
(00:46):
lot of the time.
These powerful culturalexpressions, they're important
to who we are, but they onlyrepresent part of the story.
Behind every dish, there aredeeper questions about
agriculture, trade, labor,sustainability, and the economic
futures of Caribbean societies.
Continuing our theme for thismonth on Caribbean Futures,
(01:07):
highlighting, especially forCaribbean American Heritage
Month, we're exploring the ideaof moving Caribbean food from
recipes to systems.
What would it mean to transformour rich culinary traditions
into scalable food products andindustries?
Ones that support food security,create jobs, and build lasting
(01:28):
economic infrastructure for theregion.
This conversation invites us tothink beyond what tastes good
and toward what sustains useconomically, culturally, and
collectively as a region and asa diaspora.
Before we jump into today'sconversation, I'm really
grateful to have Tamar Masonhere joining us on the show.
Tamar is a food scientist andCaribbean product developer with
(01:52):
over 20 years of experienceacross multiple sectors.
Tamar, I'll turn to you and askyou to tell a little bit more
about yourself to our listeners,where in the region you call
home, and what inspired yourinterest in food sustainability,
product concepts, and culturalstorytelling.
SPEAKER_00 (02:09):
Thank you for having me.
And I want to say hello to allof your readers.
And my name is Tamar Mason, andI'm from the beautiful island of
Barbados, and I call Barbadoshome.
I'm only one month in and havejust moved back to Barbados
after 20 years of living inEurope and some of the wider
Caribbean, and I'm reallyexcited to be on your show.
(02:30):
So how did I get into food?
I got into food in a veryunorthodox way.
A lot of Caribbean umhouseholds, um, the daughter is
supposed to know how to cook ata very early age.
Um, I was not one of them.
I was into my books, I wasreading Sweet Valley High,
different things, and I just Ijust never had an interest in
(02:51):
cooking until one day one of myaunts came back from um America
and she saw that I had nointerest in cooking and she
chastised me and it wasn't acompliment.
And I said, you know what?
This summer I'm going to learnto cook.
And that one summer I set out, Iwas about 14 years old, and I
set out to learn everything Iwanted to learn about food, and
(03:12):
I started to fall into a worldof what can we use?
What else can we use?
Why are we making the samedishes every Sunday?
Why can't we do this instead?
And I started to question myparents, and they were like,
this is tradition, and that andthat's how I entered food.
After I did my undergrad inmicrobiology, I did an
(03:33):
internship at a food factoryhere in Barbados, and I think
the rest was history.
From the time they met me, theytold me, you know what, you can
stay, you can stay aftergraduation and you can have a
full-time job here.
And I started to developproducts, I started to um take
ownership of a lot of theprojects that they had um there
at the business.
And that's how I really got intofood, and I never left.
(03:56):
I I just I've worked in allaspects of food.
I've worked in HASAP, I'veworked in food safety, I've
worked in as an executive chefat a hotel, I have also worked
in um in health and safety andproduct development.
So I've worked in all aspects offood in terms of sustainability
and and and falling in love withthat.
(04:16):
Um, in 2010, after moving to theisland of St.
Martin, or 2008, I couldn't finda job.
And it was very difficult for mebecause I've just left school,
I've just left university, and Ileft that job that I was in, and
I couldn't find anything, and II turned to food again, and I
started to document a lot of therecipes that I grew up eating in
(04:40):
Barbados because I was homesick,and I got a book deal very
quickly after, and at that timeI was vegan, and vegan wasn't
popular back then in 2008, and Igot this book deal and I started
to go deeper into um foodsustainability.
In 2019, I returned to Barbadosfor a sabbatical, and I started
(05:02):
to look at cassava deeply.
I started to look at everythingthat we had around us.
We were making a lot of foodproducts, like cassava flour,
bread, fruit flour, anddifferent things, but a lot of
people didn't know how to useit.
And I started experimentedmaking crackers, and I started
making a lot of plant-basedproducts.
And my I had a friend, she had agluten intolerance, and she said
(05:25):
to me, I love your plant-basedmeat made out of gluten, but I
can't eat it anymore.
It's making me ill.
And I said, Well, what can I do?
She said, You're a foodscientist, you'll you'll figure
it out.
And I turned to cassava andpigeon peas, and that's how we
created our first um meat analogusing those two concepts:
cassava for the um the structureand the pigeon pea for the
(05:48):
protein and the fiber.
And that's how I got into it.
SPEAKER_01 (05:51):
Thank you for sharing.
I I think you know, what you'retalking about sort of undergirds
my initial uh question, I think,for this podcast.
Um, because, you know, as Imentioned in the intro, we talk
about food and it it's oftenabout recipes, or as you said,
you know, which day we niam stewpeas and which day is fried
chicken day and what have you.
(06:13):
Um, but there are largerproblems, I think, especially
when it comes to our food.
And I really think one thingthat undergirds that is the
economies in the Caribbean,right?
As you were sort of alsoalluding to, you know, what to
do with the cassava flour, etcetera.
Especially from my perspective,um, you know, Caribbean
economies are heavily reliant ontourism, which means, you know,
(06:37):
they're obviously vulnerable toexternal shocks, whether that's
natural disasters, economicdownturns, et cetera.
But that often also means thatbecause of our reliance on
tourism, there is sort of aprioritization on consumption
over production, right?
Meaning that wealth doesn'talways, you know, sit and
(07:00):
circulate in the ways that areimportant for us locally, as
opposed to, you know, buildinglong-term infrastructure.
And so I sort of just wanted toturn to you in your expertise as
a food scientist, and maybe giveyou an opportunity to share how
you think, you know, there aremajor issues or gaps within the
Caribbean's various economies,um, and how, you know, things
(07:22):
like foreign investment, um, youknow, dependency on tourism and
all these other things alsoshape the problems that we're
going to be talking about goingforward in the episode.
SPEAKER_00 (07:33):
Well, post-emancipation return to
sugar, especially in Barbados,returned to sugar, and that was
our moneymaker, and then tourismkind of took over over time.
Um, a lot of the issues are thata lot of the islands have a high
um import bill, a really, reallyhigh import bill.
And when people go to theislands, they see all this food,
these mangles, and all the breadfruit, and they're wondering how
(07:56):
can an island have such a highimport bill?
Um, a lot of our food systemshave been shared externally by
um North America and Europe.
So a lot of the things that umwe eat are not always from the
region.
So that's why we have a um ahigh import bill.
And a lot of things we importare things like rice, flour, and
pastas, and and things thatwe're not really making in the
(08:19):
region right now, and and andI'll and I'll talk about how we
can make them in the region.
But listen to go on to talkabout the restaurant culture.
Uh, restaurant culture isgrowing in the Caribbean, and
that gives tourists uhexperience.
But the thing is, if we couldcreate product out of these same
recipes, we can create umeconomy, we can create more jobs
and everything else.
(08:41):
But we haven't done thatsuccessfully yet.
There are few companies um inthe Caribbean um that have done
it successfully that started inthe um in the 70s that have kind
of worked out all their kinksover the last couple of decades,
but we need to do more nowbecause the the gate is closing
and we went through thoseshocks, especially um seven
(09:01):
years ago, and we need to kindof respond to it now.
And it's not only growing ummore crops, but it's how to
convert these crops intoproducts that people like and
that the younger generationwould like and everything else,
and we need to start making themquickly.
We don't have a lot of food umscientists in the region.
(09:21):
A lot of them tend to like, um,they tend to graduate and leave
and go and work in Europe or theUS.
So we don't have a lot of themin the region, and when we do
have them, they're tending towork for a company for like for
most of their career becauseit's stable.
So the innovation sometimeshappens from people who are not
food scientists.
Some of them cannot take it tothe level that a food scientist
(09:44):
can, and there's sometimes noframework for them to get the
support.
And and and let's talk aboutsystems.
We talk about um having food inthe Caribbean and um and
reducing the export bill.
But if we don't have the systemsin place for the food to turn
into um into a viable product,then we are just going to have
(10:04):
different people working insilos making amazing product,
but it's not growing, it's notgoing anywhere.
So let's look at how the systemswork.
Um, do you have any questionsbefore I jump into that?
SPEAKER_01 (10:15):
No, we can we can talk about the systems.
I think another part that I'dlove for you to share as well is
maybe why you think we've tendedto focus more on that, like
restaurant or universes cultureas opposed to those broader
systems.
But yeah, feel free to share.
SPEAKER_00 (10:30):
Yes.
So a lot of us uh in theCaribbean, we are very proud of
our culture, our heritage.
And a lot of people think thatdoing something outside of the
culture and heritage is wrong.
So a lot of people never feellike they have permission to go
against the status quo and tocreate a product.
If I tell the average person inthe Caribbean to create a
(10:51):
product with breadfruit or dosomething with breadfruit, the
first thing they're going to dois steam it and put some
saltfish gravy on it.
And we know, and that wouldtaste amazing or make a
breadfruit cuckoo.
But if I tell them, take thatsame breadfruit, mash it into
zero zero flour, add an egg, andthen roll it and turn it into
breadfruit paparadel, they'regoing to tell me that I'm asking
(11:12):
for too much.
But that's easy, and that'spasta that we are importing, and
that's pasta that we can make inthe region.
You see where I'm going withthis?
The thing is, we need to givepeople and the young people
permission to um to uh to thinkoutside the box and to create
and look at food in new andexciting ways.
So um one of the things I wantto jump into here is the
(11:36):
systems.
The reason why we don't have alot of um food product um in the
region is because we don't havethe systems set up yet.
First of all, the raw materialssometimes are inconsistent, and
a lot of the things that we getin the region are seasonal.
And while I respect the seasonsof the region, if you're making
(11:57):
a product to sell and to scale,you have to have constant
demand.
Secondly, there's not a lot ofcooperation um amongst the
islands.
When we have that cooperationamongst the islands, a lot of
things are going to be betterbecause you know what?
If Guadalupe has excess umcassava or excess breadfruit, we
(12:18):
can get it in Barbados, they canget it in Dominica.
We need to share what we havebecause all islands are
different.
Some are volcanic and some arelimestone, and some produce more
food than um and than others,and we need to share the food
amongst each other.
Another thing is money.
Money is really important.
(12:38):
If there's no loans, if there'sno revolving loan, if there are
no loans for entrepreneurs thatare easy to access, they're not
going to be willing to um to putall of their energy into
creating food products.
So we need more loans in theregion for um for food
entrepreneurs.
Another thing is packaging.
(12:58):
Packaging has always been anissue in the region, and it's
not because we don't know how topackage well, is that the
availability of packaging.
Um, a lot of the packagingimports, they import things that
are are um that have a good sellthrough, like those pet bottles
that you put the natural juicesin.
You see a lot of them in all theislands.
But when it comes to specialtyjars, you'll see one or two
(13:20):
jars.
So then everybody that is makingsauces has to use the same jar.
And then when it comes toputting your product against
another product in the US or inEurope, you're not going to look
the same, you're not going tolook as kitted uh as kitted out.
So we need to start to look umat our packaging a bit and take
our packaging seriously.
(13:41):
We know that we can make theproduct.
It's easy to make the product,but to get the packaging right
and to get the messaging rightas well.
So um, those are the things inthe system that needs to work.
And for even from my experiencehere, I moved back here a month
ago and trying to open abusiness in Barbados and a full
business in Barbados and to getduty free exemption, I don't
(14:03):
know where to go.
There needs to be spaces on theinternet for each entrepreneur
or any full entrepreneur orcosmetic entrepreneur to go on
to see what's the guide.
And I've been documenting mineso that people can follow suit
after when I like when I gothrough the process, I can just
plug and play.
I can say this is what you haveto do.
But we have to get those sitesup, like all the systems are
(14:26):
scattered.
We need to get them in oneplace.
So these are the systems thatstop food production.
And in terms of scaling, a lotof times when you tell somebody
in a region that you want toscale, even me, sometimes I
think it's a thousand bottles.
It's not a thousand bottlesbecause if a large chain asks
you um for product, they want toput it in all of their stores in
(14:48):
all of their states orprovidences.
They they want to get iteverywhere.
So are we ready for that?
No, we're not ready for that.
Can we be ready for that in thefuture?
Of course we can, but we need towork together.
Even if it takes one island todo it well, and everybody else
can copy or to kind of use thatformula as the like a benchmark,
I think that would be the way togo.
(15:10):
Thank you for sharing that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:11):
What you brought in terms of, you know, even your
example about breadfruit and itspotential to turn into um flour,
which could then turn, you know,and make pasta.
That got me thinking about yourwork on legacy food products and
the fact that I, you know, Idon't think that term has ever
really come to my mind.
Um, at least, and I don't know,I'm sure that also applies for a
(15:33):
number of our listeners when itcomes to our foods, right?
We have various terms that weuse, whether it's ground
provisions and, you know, all ofthese things.
But I would love for you toshare with us um what you
defined as a legacy food productand you know, what does it look
like in practice for us,especially as a region?
Why is it important forespecially food, you know,
(15:55):
Caribbean food entrepreneurs tothink about our products in
terms of, you know, things thatcan last beyond just individual
businesses?
SPEAKER_00 (16:05):
Yeah.
For me, when I define a legacyproduct, I will say a legacy
product is something that canstand the test of time, um, is
not dependent on the founder.
So if the founder goes however,it can still continue for for
generations and still have animpact on the um on the pop
culture or the or the heritageof that particular nation.
(16:28):
Now let's talk about some legacyproducts uh worldwide.
Um when we think of Italy, Ilike to go to Italy a lot.
And when I go to Italy, I buy upthings like pasta, olive oil,
um, things like um pistachiopaste, and those are their
legacy products.
Um, if I go to India, I tend topick up the spices there and all
(16:49):
the vanilla, and I bring thosehome with me.
Um, when I come to theCaribbean, we do have a lot of
legacy products.
We have our wet seasonings.
Um, we would call it jerk inJamaica, Green Seasoning in
Barbados, or a piece in um uh inHaiti.
And um, I would say the FrenchWest Indies, they also have a
lot of um legacy um productslike Sochien in Guadeloupe.
(17:13):
And we do have them there, andthey have to stand the test of
time.
Um, but now we we need to likekind of pivot and uh up the
thing and do some more.
So those things I would say thatas it relates to legacy
products, I like to see legacyproducts that are ambient,
meaning that they'reshelf-stable, that they're not
(17:34):
um on cold storage, because itmakes it easier for the food
business to export, it's cheaperfor them, and there's no
wastage.
So, in terms of something likeum, we'll jump into ready meals
after in another part of thistalk.
But if you have something like aready meal, trying to export
that to say Europe, it has along cold chain, and then the
(17:55):
price is going to go up, andthen you can't compete with what
is on the shelf in Europe.
So a lot of these things we haveto think about when we're
creating legacy products, weneed to create things that are
more shelf stable.
I'm not saying that um a coldchain product can't be a legacy
product, it can be, but when thesystems are in place, we still
have issues in the region withsystems in terms of maritime.
(18:17):
Um, like right now, if I wantedsomething from Guadalupe, I
never know where to begin.
I don't really know how to getit from Barbados.
So we have issues in terms oftransport, linkages within um
sea islands.
Um, so that's why we call alegacy product.
Anything that can stand the testof time, we have them, but we
need to develop more if we wantto compete with the
(18:39):
international market.
Now, in terms of wet seasoning,I'll give you a joke.
I used to make wet seasoning inToronto, and I would sell it.
And um, there was one time I wasselling that along with hot
sauce, and people were tastingit on um on tortilla chips, and
one person asked me if they cantaste the seasoning.
I tell them no, it's to seasonmeat.
(19:01):
And you know, and so I was atthis um, this it was a place
where they they had a lot ofbuyers, and I'm telling them no,
they can't taste this product,they need to buy it and take it
home to season meat, and I'mgone ho.
And you know what?
I eventually opened it, andpeople started to come to my
table sampling the greenseasoning, and they started
(19:24):
eating it with chips.
Did you know?
I kid you not, the sale of mygreen seasonings that day went
up.
Nobody wanted to see the hotsauce, and guess what they use
the green seasoning for?
They use it as a dip to eat withchips.
So you can see now.
Which we would never think of.
That was like last for me in theCaribbean.
(19:45):
That's like we would never thinkof doing it.
And even if we tried to do it,somebody would try to stop us.
But it goes to show you how ourfood can be interpreted in
different ways in differentregions, because in North
America, a lot of people use dryseasons when they are seasoning
their food, and that seasons arenot a part of the food culture,
(20:06):
so to speak, there.
So again, we have to think aboutif we are flexible enough to
like think out of the box andsell out of the box as well.
SPEAKER_01 (20:16):
That's a great point.
I think you know, you raisedseveral issues, right?
Whether that be like governmentand intergovernmental
infrastructure, things likepackaging and stuff, right?
Um, also our own creativity,because again, just because
things have been done this wayfor generations and eons doesn't
mean we can't pivot in things.
(20:37):
Um, you did raise a point aboutum, you know, shelf life and,
you know, sort of stability,even package foods.
And I'd I'd love for us to sortof dig into that a little bit
and maybe have you share howdoes developing products that
really help address largerregional challenges like food um
(20:58):
security, you know, importdependence, right?
I think when we combine some ofthose bigger frameworks with
things like shelf life, right,it helps us to to revamp a
little bit and also, you know,are there models in other parts
of the world that we couldcertainly follow to to mirror
this?
Um, I think, you know,especially when it comes to
post-hurricanes, especially,right?
(21:20):
Just to take Jamaicaspecifically after Hurricane
Melissa, there was so much, youknow, discussion about where was
hit was, you know, one of theparishes, my parish is seen as
the breadbasket of Jamaica,right?
What does that mean for thecomeback for farmers?
Also, everybody was talkingabout how market prices are
(21:40):
through the roof, right?
Naturally, because we've lost somuch of our crops.
And so I I have thisunderstanding that, you know, we
obviously as a region prioritizefresh foods, right?
Our ability to grow foods, but Ithink there is a difference
between shelf life andstability, right?
Being able to access.
Fresh foods, and then you know,when we pair that with various
(22:04):
issues that we face as a region,like food insecurity, like
natural disasters.
SPEAKER_00 (22:09):
Good question.
That's a load of questions.
I have a lot to say here.
So one thing before I jump intothat, I have to talk about
standardization of recipes.
No, sometimes when I develop arecipe, I will go into the
kitchen and I will just make itand I will make it with my
heart.
And I know what I'm doing.
I'm not, I have a skill next tome.
(22:30):
I have everything next to me toput it down in my notepad.
But it's just that thing thattakes over the Caribbean spirit
when you're cooking that you arenot standardizing.
And what happens to a lot offood brands, they don't have
that kind of consistency.
They don't have it all the time.
So it changes.
Sometimes you will taste a batchand it doesn't taste right or
(22:50):
whatever.
And that is because that is inour culture to cook with our
heart.
It's also in our culture to eatfresh foods.
So putting a ready meal outthere with a five-day shelf
life, and I'm trying to do thatin Barbados.
We're going to see, and I'mgoing to see how that works.
Because in Europe, we don't havea lot of frozen meals in Europe.
(23:11):
If you look at all the mealsthat are out there, they're all
chilled and they have a shelflife of seven days.
Sometimes you get a little bitmore on that.
So, how do we get the region toeat like that?
And I'm not trying to get theregion to eat less fresh, but
I'm also thinking widely aboutthe aging population.
A lot of the population isaging, and a lot of their some
(23:33):
people never had children orwhatever.
What are they going to do?
And I remember meeting a lot ofelderly people in Europe, and I
see them and I will see thembuying a lot of ready meals, and
they will buy it for the wholeweek because they don't have the
energy to stand in that kitchenand cook anymore.
How do we convert that intopharmacist and foods and
cultural foods now for thissegment and also for the
(23:56):
hospitals to standardize thingsthat they're not overwhelmed
anymore, that we can cook forthe diabetics, we can cook for
the people that havehypertension.
A lot of these issues need to besorted even before we start to
scale.
As it relates to shelf life andstability and product
development, I go right up towhere we were talking about.
Who are the food entrepreneurs?
(24:18):
Are they getting the help andthe support that they want to
from food scientists?
Maybe not.
Maybe it's somebody that had apassion and food that is out
there creating something andthey're creating it because of
the love of it, but they don'tunderstand shelf life.
They don't know even how to do ashelf life test.
Um, some um islands don't evenhave um testing labs for food.
(24:39):
How do we work that like how dowe um cooperate?
Can Barbados uh take food fromLake St.
Vincent if they don't have one?
Or vice versa, how are wecooperating?
And we have to have larger foodand and um conversations.
A lot of times we have theseclimate change sustainability
conversations about food, butwe're not really addressing the
(25:01):
systems and the cooperation.
So I think that's where we needto start, right there.
Um, in terms of stability, wehave a very humid environment in
a lot of countries, and when weare creating things, we're not
thinking about that.
We have to think about thingsthat desiccate.
And when we think aboutstability as well, we need to
(25:22):
also think about how can itserve a country when um we have
natural disasters.
Everybody in the Caribbean hasgone through this, but when we
have natural disasters, theysaid to stock up on can and dry
goods.
We have a few canneries in theregion that are canning biana
sausages and and everythingelse, but what are we creating
(25:42):
in terms of dry soups?
What are we creating is um interms of rations that can hold
people, things that arelightweight, that people can
stock up on, things that areaffordable.
When we're developing products,we need to think about what if.
And and a lot of times wedevelop products because of our
ego, because we we likesomething, but we're not
(26:04):
thinking about the widerpicture.
So when we're developing, wereally need to think about how
can we help the region becausethese things are inevitable, the
hurricanes are inevitable.
Um, sometimes the um the thegates closing are are
inevitable.
How can we sustain ourselves?
And that's the one of the majorquestions that anybody
developing food needs to answer,but it's time to start doing
(26:27):
even one product, even addingsomething, one product to your
line that can help, um, it's awin.
SPEAKER_01 (26:34):
Pivoting, I I guess not really pivoting, but it's
sort of in tandem with that.
I'd love to get your take on ifthere are other, you know, and
this could of course be outsideof the Caribbean, if there are
other cultures throughout theworld that you've seen have done
sort of what you're talkingabout, right?
So finding um a particularproduct that, you know, they've
(26:56):
they've pivoted and turned intoa sort of something that's has a
larger shelf life or, you know,that they've ch taken from their
traditional food culture um andhave really developed into being
a successful product for us tothen, you know, sort of use that
model um and pivot in our ownculture.
SPEAKER_00 (27:16):
I'm thinking, because I know that there's many
of them, but the answer to thatquestion is I always say this.
I fell in love with uh fufu ayear ago or two years ago, and
um at first I didn't understandit.
I had cucko in Barbados, and wehad things that like breadfruit
cocoa and those kind of formats,but fufu in a box, it's it's one
(27:39):
of my favorite things ever.
And I I always say that if ifI'm hungry, fufu is always in
that box, and that's one is aconvenience food, but it's made
out of um the flour of say greenplantain or even things like
dashin that we have here.
Um, it has to be stabilized withpotato starch because it doesn't
form out well when it doesn'thave that starch and it doesn't
(28:01):
form into that starchy ball oranything else.
And I think that's one thingthat Africa gave to themselves,
but no, it's in in uh in turngiving to the world that format
of dry a dry carbohydrate umthat is um that can be put in
the box and can be like broughttogether very quickly with some
water and heat.
(28:22):
And I have developed somethingrecently that kind of um is not
on the same level as Fufu.
So I looked at moringa.
Moringa is growing radio andrampant in the region.
I never grew up saying moringa,but it just appeared um um in
some um somewhat.
And what I did with that productis that people always look at
(28:44):
you know taking pods and eatingthe seeds and using it for
medicinal purposes.
And I was like, you know what, Ilike these flowers, these
flowers are spicy, the leavesdon't taste too bad.
So what I did is I took driedmeringa and I converted it into
a spice that you can sprinkle onfood, add to your food to
increase its nutritional value.
(29:06):
So if you're eating rice, ricehas X amount of calories, X
amount of protein, but with onetablespoon of that meringue
seasoning, you're going toincrease all of your vitamins
and minerals and it tastes good.
And I think that that wouldprobably change the way how
people see merenga and use it ina fun way.
We even put it on loaded fries,like giving that to somebody
(29:28):
thinking that it's Italianseason, but it's merenga, I
think that's kind of cool.
SPEAKER_01 (29:34):
Definitely, I agree.
I do want us to um hold space alittle bit for you maybe to talk
about possible solutions, right?
We've talked about variousproblems, whether that's you
know, distribution pipelines andregional cooperations and
partnerships.
Um, but you know, what does itlook in your mind, or what would
(29:56):
you love to see in terms of howwe can move from the sort of
model of individual businesssuccess stories into you know
building these actual systemsthat work across the region and
work together?
SPEAKER_00 (30:12):
I think that um farmers need to step to the
front because I think that theyare the backbone to our
existence.
And I think that we rely on themso much, and we've had issues in
the past with where farmersdon't feel loved um by society,
(30:35):
and and and and they're notencouraged to grow.
I think the first solution is toget farmers and food producers
in a room together so that wecan start to work out what they
have and what we can make withit.
We have young minds ready to umum to do something in society,
(30:56):
and I do think that um they needto do some um workshops where
they can like kind of thinkabout what they can create with
these products.
So I think that's one of thesolutions to make creating food
exciting, make it lookrewarding, because if people
don't see something isrewarding, they're not going to
(31:17):
want to do it.
Most young people want to bestreamers now, and because it's
rewarding, how can we make themwant to be full entrepreneurs?
We need to start showing themthe way out of it and the way to
success with it.
So also even using a successstory to show them you could be
like her, you could be like thisbusiness.
(31:37):
I think that's important.
I do think that um uh anothersolution would be for the
governments to make it easierfor food entrepreneurs to
operate.
Um, a lot of them don't, andit's it and it has been that way
forever, and it's because a lotof people never really talked
about it.
(31:58):
And if they make life easier foruh for food entrepreneurs, we'll
have more of them.
And making life easier for me isto remove the import duties on
the packaging and remove theimport duties on some of the raw
material.
I do think that entrepreneursneed to be creating from within
the region and within what wehave on the region at that
(32:19):
point.
But we can't say that becausewe're going to need binaries,
we're going to need somepreservatives sometimes, and we
don't always make them.
And it encourages um evenscientists and young people to
start being the ones that createthose um those preservatives.
Um, we research has always leftbehind in the region, and we
(32:40):
need to um actually create aspace for that research so that
um more people are interested inum um in the industry.
As it relates to scaling, um, Ido think that some islands are
small and and they might not beable to scale.
But if one hand got cut, theother can um um can assist.
(33:02):
The solution for that is theislands that can do the heavy
lifting and the heavy scalingshould be able to scale for to
smaller um uh food entrepreneurswhen they get to that level.
Um, I don't think sometimes,even me, I have a product now.
If I want to scale, I don't haveanybody to turn to.
(33:25):
I might have to go back intoEurope to get it um scale, and
that shouldn't be.
Um there are existing foodcompanies now making drinks
sauces and what's not, and a lotof them don't like to white
label, and and and it has beenculturally like this.
They don't want to make forother people, they just want to
make their brand, and that's it.
Then there's issues with NDAs.
(33:47):
We don't have systems in placethat are affordable for
entrepreneurs to access NDAs,they have to go to a lawyer now
and you know and spend a lot ofmoney, and that's uh um
something that a foodentrepreneur doesn't have.
So a lot of things has um willhave to change, and those are
the solutions to encourage uhexisting food producers to white
(34:09):
label so that um it makes spacefor more uh products.
And one of the other solutionsfor me is if you're uh
complaining as a region andsaying, oh, we have a high
import bill, we need to do anaudit.
What it is that we are umimporting that is causing this
bill to be so high?
(34:29):
If it's rice, some of um islandsin Barbados for sure we can't
grow rice right now.
Um, some other islands like umplaces, it's not islands, but
places like Guyana, they have umthat they can grow rice.
Can we get from them?
You know what I mean?
Um, so a lot of these thingshave to, we have to have
conversations on a regionallevel.
(34:51):
So I um grew up um under theEuropean Union system, and the
European Union cooperates reallywell, and I would like to see
that cooperation extend toCARICOM in a way um that the
European Union um operates whenit comes to food.
Um we need full cooperation andwe need exchange of information.
(35:12):
We need databases that have umum that information.
And we need to know when there'sa glut.
I'll buy um I'll buy thosebreadfruits from you, Dominica,
when you have that glut.
So I think those are thesolutions right now, and I I
want more young people, as Isaid, to see the um the um the
(35:33):
joy of full science.
And one thing I wanted tomention is that a lot of food
entrepreneurs don't know thatthey can access um external
investment.
They think that that is only forum TV shows in America or in
Europe.
Not little of them could getinvestment.
And because of this mindset, alot of them don't want to grow.
(35:55):
They kind of just make productsfor their um their community and
what's not.
Um, but we can um in the region,we can now access international
investment.
And we also need the literacy umin there.
We need to understand that whenan investor comes and offers uh
and wants a 20% stake in thecompany, what does that mean for
you as the owner?
(36:16):
So um we we need to have thatinformation.
We need to show a success storyin the region where you have uh
uh an international investorinvesting into the company and
it and is able to scale, evenbuilding a factory in that
particular island and andscaling and exporting.
Um, and one more thing a lot offood entrepreneurs always want
(36:39):
to export.
So before they even think ofsupplying to their community,
they think about exportingbecause they don't think that
they can get a good price fortheir product in their
particular island.
And that might be true or false,but the issue goes back is a bit
deeper, and I'll say this a lotof supermarkets import their
(37:03):
food and they get them fromdistributors, and distributors
get them from anotherdistributor, right?
And a lot of supermarkets do notwant to open their doors to
small producers to do all thebilling and everything else,
they don't want to deal with it.
So then if if a producer wantsto get on a shelf, it's very
(37:24):
challenging to get on the shelfin a lot of the regional
supermarkets.
There's some regionalsupermarkets that are very local
forward, and there's some thatare not.
And you can't, at the end of theday, you can't tell somebody how
to run a business, but peopleneed to see where they can win
when they are doing somethingand they need to see a win.
SPEAKER_01 (37:44):
Those points, particularly your penultimate
one on investment, also broughtme to specifically thinking
about diaspora um and you know,investment by the diaspora.
Um, I think, you know, there arethings that are certainly being
done in terms of markets and umbeing able to ship certain
(38:05):
things from the Caribbean to,for instance, the US, right?
Um, or the fact that, you know,I can get a can of Aki.
Not that I want to eat can Aki,but that's another story within
itself, right?
Um, how would you like to seeour diaspora really playing a
vivid and like, you know,important role, not just in, you
(38:29):
know, supporting thesebusinesses themselves, but
really in terms of investinginto um, you know, food sciences
and food entrepreneurs from theregion?
SPEAKER_00 (38:39):
Very good question.
And this one's I'm going to giveyou a spinner where this is
concerned.
So um I was a part of thediaspora up to one month ago,
and um I always um talk topeople in the diaspora as it
relates to that.
So the diaspora right now isinvesting mostly in real estate
in carabining because that'swhere the um the money is at the
(39:02):
end of the day.
Um, but uh giving you somedifferent ways that the diaspora
can invest in full sets, if notdirectly.
We have direct investment likedoing a fun and that kind of
thing, where um promisingcompanies can pull from.
But how about creating apipeline that the companies can
(39:23):
send products to you so that youcan feed the rest of the
diaspora?
You have the right to open anLLC in um in um in the US or a
limited company in Europe, andif you have that right to do
that, you can create uh apathway for the small um
entrepreneurs.
(39:43):
And some businesses have donethat already.
There are some that are umselling Caribbean products
online and um to the diaspora inuh in North America, and that's
going pretty well because you'renot missing home as much um when
like when you have your littlecomfort keepers.
But um I'll say this thediaspora can also create um pool
(40:07):
on real estate for certain umstores and that kind of thing as
well, because a lot of the timeswe think of diaspora investment
as only creating the fun andlike giving back to some of the
full companies, but how aboutthem leasing a warehouse, um,
leasing um a space that or wesay in French EPC, uh a fine
(40:31):
grocery store or um or even anonline store that people can buy
that at.
So there's a lot of differentways that the diaspora can
invest, and it's and and andthese are smaller ways until the
confidence is there to um investmore heavily into promising
companies.
Um again, they can um put theirfunds into um certain um
(40:57):
governmental bodies, and thegovernmental bodies can put out
a call for um businesses to cometo get that funding as well, or
those grants as well, so theycan also create grants um in
their communities as well.
SPEAKER_01 (41:11):
You make a great point.
I thought of um like virtualbusinesses like Carib Shopper in
that question, where you knowyou can definitely order from
them and you know get whateverregional peppa sauce, whatever
it is.
SPEAKER_00 (41:24):
But again, I I think that even beyond something like
that, I think that um there arelots of people in the diaspora
looking for something else todo, um, or even people that are
retired that still want to dosomething, they can create
spaces um for these particularfood businesses in many ways in
(41:45):
their communities, in theirchurches, and get the products
moving, get people to tastingthe products and what's not.
It's not only money, it's it'sit's access to certain markets
and to certain people.
Wonderful, wonderful.
SPEAKER_01 (42:00):
Um, I think that'll bring me to my penultimate
question.
Everybody knows um of everystrictly facts episode.
I'm always in love with the waythat we connect so many
different parts of our cultureto popular culture, and in that
I mean usually music, um, butalso, you know, books, poetry,
(42:20):
um, novels, etc.
In in preparation for thisepisode, I kept singing Super
Cat's Vineyard Patti.
Um, that also led me down aweird a line where I said Super
Cat Vineyard Potty, then itbrought me to the Super Cat and
Heavy D song, which is aninspiration for one of Protege's
latest songs called At With Eat.
(42:42):
Um, I also thought about variousCaribbean folk songs that talk
about food.
And so I would love to turn toyou and ask you what are some of
your favorite examples of howCaribbean food shows up in our
popular culture?
SPEAKER_00 (42:55):
I'm an old millennial, so this song.
Um, I would think for me, I grewup with this one song in mind,
and you might not know it.
But you know, Stampango inJamaica, we call it fish cakes
in Barbados.
And I was a little girl, and itwould come over every time on
(43:16):
local TV, and basically it wouldgo fish cakes and bakes every
bajan does make, and they wouldtalk about the method.
You put in the salt fish, youput in the flour, spice it up
with seasoning, and add aversion of soco powder, meaning
that the baking powder was thesoap powder.
So I think that that song livesin my head rent-free um as it
(43:37):
relates to food culture and myheritage and everything else.
And we don't hear it enough.
I need to call the radio stationto put it back on, especially
during independence.
It's a lovely song, and itteaches you basically how to
make the fish cake.
SPEAKER_01 (43:53):
That's a wonderful example.
I'll be sure to add it to ourstrictly fact syllabus for our
listeners to check out.
Um, I do want us to close withmaybe uh a hopeful note towards
uh a wider future, right?
And so if we were to thinkabout, you know, the Caribbean
region, Caribbean food economies20, 30, 40 years ahead, right?
(44:16):
Um, what would it truly reallylook like for us to be investing
in our food systems?
Um, what role do you thinkentrepreneurs, various
communities would play ingovernments, right?
Definitely, um, would play intransforming Caribbean food from
something we celebrateculturally into something that
(44:38):
also sustains us economicallyfor generations to come.
SPEAKER_00 (44:42):
I think it will start from the collective
conscience of the people in theregion, to be honest.
I think it starts with them ummaking more edible spaces in
their own homes, having thatrespect and full sovereignty.
Um, it also will look likegovernments having not only
stockpiling, but having umspaces for ambient full storage
(45:06):
in case of any um naturaldisaster, introduction of freeze
drying, especially in terms oftechnology, so that we can
freeze dry a lot of the thingsuh for a rainy day or a not so
rainy day, um, it would looklike um more um or brands listed
(45:28):
in um the more affluent umsupermarkets um overseas.
And and and the reason why I saythat is because a lot of the
times we'll say toentrepreneurs, if you can't
scale, go gourmet.
Because when you can't do a lotof products, 100,000 um in in in
(45:48):
one skew, you can make 5,000 ina skew, but it will be gourmet,
it will be more expensive.
So I I would think that weshould have a place, just like
Asian food has a place, and um,and you will see all of the
amazing Indian sauces, like thebutter chicken sauces, having a
place um on certain shelves andoutside of um communities,
(46:13):
because sometimes you will onlysee Caribbean products where you
have a Caribbean demographic.
So I would like to see more ofour products being celebrated um
outside of that.
That's what I see for the next40 years, and what I would like
to also see is that we um focusum on covering more of our
(46:37):
arable land.
There's a lot of arable landthat is not um that doesn't have
anything right now, and alsofocus on fruit.
There's some islands that do notgrow any fruit, and that you
can't find any local fruit onsat islands, believe it or not,
there are islands like this thatexist, and I will I would like
to see more local fruit beinggrown in the Caribbean, and I
(47:00):
want Caribbean farmers to bemore uh adventurous.
A lot of us never thought thatgrapes could grow in the
Caribbean.
Uh, and and my dad has beengrowing grapes for like 20
years, and we I always have agrapevine and have grapes, and
people will be like, You yougrew that at home.
And they wouldn't believe me,but to be more adventurous,
there's a lot of things that wecould be growing that we are
(47:21):
importing.
We have the climate for grapes,we need to grow grapes, you
know, and we have the climate todo strawberries, especially a
lot of the more um uhmountainous islands can grow
some um strawberries, do more ofthat because you can do it, and
then there's a once you createit, there's a market for it.
(47:41):
And that's what I have to say.
SPEAKER_01 (47:43):
Beautifully said, thank you so much, Tamar, for
joining us um for this episode.
I think you know, one thing I'mreally pushing us all to do and
think about for CaribbeanAmerican Heritage Month is think
about the future of theCaribbean.
And this I think is one primaryway that we can definitely do
that, not just in the immediatefuture, but how we are thinking
(48:03):
about, you know, our lives andthe generations of our
communities to come.
So with that, I thank you againso much for joining me for this
episode for our Strictly Factsfamily.
Um, I will be sure to tag Tamarin all the social media posts
and everything on the StrictlyFacts website.
And you can be sure to followher for more if you're
(48:25):
definitely into food science andwanting to learn more, or even
get your own products off theground in terms of you know
becoming food entrepreneursyourselves.
And so with that, thank you all.
Until next time, look a more.
Welcome to Strictly Facts, a Guide to Caribbean
History and Culture, hosted byme, Dr.
Alexandria Miller.
Strictly Facts teaches thehistory, politics, and activism
of the Caribbean and connectsthese themes to contemporary
music and popular culture.
Hello, hello, people WagyuanPangwata Guan, and welcome back
(00:22):
to another episode of StrictlyFacts, a guide to Caribbean
history and culture, where weexplore the ideas, the
histories, and innovationsshaping the Caribbean and its
global diaspora.
Today's episode takes us intothe world of food, but not the
way we often think about it.
When Caribbean food entersglobal conversations, it's
usually through recipes,restaurants, or even tourism, a
(00:46):
lot of the time.
These powerful culturalexpressions, they're important
to who we are, but they onlyrepresent part of the story.
Behind every dish, there aredeeper questions about
agriculture, trade, labor,sustainability, and the economic
futures of Caribbean societies.
Continuing our theme for thismonth on Caribbean Futures,
(01:07):
highlighting, especially forCaribbean American Heritage
Month, we're exploring the ideaof moving Caribbean food from
recipes to systems.
What would it mean to transformour rich culinary traditions
into scalable food products andindustries?
Ones that support food security,create jobs, and build lasting
(01:28):
economic infrastructure for theregion.
This conversation invites us tothink beyond what tastes good
and toward what sustains useconomically, culturally, and
collectively as a region and asa diaspora.
Before we jump into today'sconversation, I'm really
grateful to have Tamar Masonhere joining us on the show.
Tamar is a food scientist andCaribbean product developer with
(01:52):
over 20 years of experienceacross multiple sectors.
Tamar, I'll turn to you and askyou to tell a little bit more
about yourself to our listeners,where in the region you call
home, and what inspired yourinterest in food sustainability,
product concepts, and culturalstorytelling.
SPEAKER_00 (02:09):
Thank you for having me.
And I want to say hello to allof your readers.
And my name is Tamar Mason, andI'm from the beautiful island of
Barbados, and I call Barbadoshome.
I'm only one month in and havejust moved back to Barbados
after 20 years of living inEurope and some of the wider
Caribbean, and I'm reallyexcited to be on your show.
(02:30):
So how did I get into food?
I got into food in a veryunorthodox way.
A lot of Caribbean umhouseholds, um, the daughter is
supposed to know how to cook ata very early age.
Um, I was not one of them.
I was into my books, I wasreading Sweet Valley High,
different things, and I just Ijust never had an interest in
(02:51):
cooking until one day one of myaunts came back from um America
and she saw that I had nointerest in cooking and she
chastised me and it wasn't acompliment.
And I said, you know what?
This summer I'm going to learnto cook.
And that one summer I set out, Iwas about 14 years old, and I
set out to learn everything Iwanted to learn about food, and
(03:12):
I started to fall into a worldof what can we use?
What else can we use?
Why are we making the samedishes every Sunday?
Why can't we do this instead?
And I started to question myparents, and they were like,
this is tradition, and that andthat's how I entered food.
After I did my undergrad inmicrobiology, I did an
(03:33):
internship at a food factoryhere in Barbados, and I think
the rest was history.
From the time they met me, theytold me, you know what, you can
stay, you can stay aftergraduation and you can have a
full-time job here.
And I started to developproducts, I started to um take
ownership of a lot of theprojects that they had um there
at the business.
And that's how I really got intofood, and I never left.
(03:56):
I I just I've worked in allaspects of food.
I've worked in HASAP, I'veworked in food safety, I've
worked in as an executive chefat a hotel, I have also worked
in um in health and safety andproduct development.
So I've worked in all aspects offood in terms of sustainability
and and and falling in love withthat.
(04:16):
Um, in 2010, after moving to theisland of St.
Martin, or 2008, I couldn't finda job.
And it was very difficult for mebecause I've just left school,
I've just left university, and Ileft that job that I was in, and
I couldn't find anything, and II turned to food again, and I
started to document a lot of therecipes that I grew up eating in
(04:40):
Barbados because I was homesick,and I got a book deal very
quickly after, and at that timeI was vegan, and vegan wasn't
popular back then in 2008, and Igot this book deal and I started
to go deeper into um foodsustainability.
In 2019, I returned to Barbadosfor a sabbatical, and I started
(05:02):
to look at cassava deeply.
I started to look at everythingthat we had around us.
We were making a lot of foodproducts, like cassava flour,
bread, fruit flour, anddifferent things, but a lot of
people didn't know how to useit.
And I started experimentedmaking crackers, and I started
making a lot of plant-basedproducts.
And my I had a friend, she had agluten intolerance, and she said
(05:25):
to me, I love your plant-basedmeat made out of gluten, but I
can't eat it anymore.
It's making me ill.
And I said, Well, what can I do?
She said, You're a foodscientist, you'll you'll figure
it out.
And I turned to cassava andpigeon peas, and that's how we
created our first um meat analogusing those two concepts:
cassava for the um the structureand the pigeon pea for the
(05:48):
protein and the fiber.
And that's how I got into it.
SPEAKER_01 (05:51):
Thank you for sharing.
I I think you know, what you'retalking about sort of undergirds
my initial uh question, I think,for this podcast.
Um, because, you know, as Imentioned in the intro, we talk
about food and it it's oftenabout recipes, or as you said,
you know, which day we niam stewpeas and which day is fried
chicken day and what have you.
(06:13):
Um, but there are largerproblems, I think, especially
when it comes to our food.
And I really think one thingthat undergirds that is the
economies in the Caribbean,right?
As you were sort of alsoalluding to, you know, what to
do with the cassava flour, etcetera.
Especially from my perspective,um, you know, Caribbean
economies are heavily reliant ontourism, which means, you know,
(06:37):
they're obviously vulnerable toexternal shocks, whether that's
natural disasters, economicdownturns, et cetera.
But that often also means thatbecause of our reliance on
tourism, there is sort of aprioritization on consumption
over production, right?
Meaning that wealth doesn'talways, you know, sit and
(07:00):
circulate in the ways that areimportant for us locally, as
opposed to, you know, buildinglong-term infrastructure.
And so I sort of just wanted toturn to you in your expertise as
a food scientist, and maybe giveyou an opportunity to share how
you think, you know, there aremajor issues or gaps within the
Caribbean's various economies,um, and how, you know, things
(07:22):
like foreign investment, um, youknow, dependency on tourism and
all these other things alsoshape the problems that we're
going to be talking about goingforward in the episode.
SPEAKER_00 (07:33):
Well, post-emancipation return to
sugar, especially in Barbados,returned to sugar, and that was
our moneymaker, and then tourismkind of took over over time.
Um, a lot of the issues are thata lot of the islands have a high
um import bill, a really, reallyhigh import bill.
And when people go to theislands, they see all this food,
these mangles, and all the breadfruit, and they're wondering how
(07:56):
can an island have such a highimport bill?
Um, a lot of our food systemshave been shared externally by
um North America and Europe.
So a lot of the things that umwe eat are not always from the
region.
So that's why we have a um ahigh import bill.
And a lot of things we importare things like rice, flour, and
pastas, and and things thatwe're not really making in the
(08:19):
region right now, and and andI'll and I'll talk about how we
can make them in the region.
But listen to go on to talkabout the restaurant culture.
Uh, restaurant culture isgrowing in the Caribbean, and
that gives tourists uhexperience.
But the thing is, if we couldcreate product out of these same
recipes, we can create umeconomy, we can create more jobs
and everything else.
(08:41):
But we haven't done thatsuccessfully yet.
There are few companies um inthe Caribbean um that have done
it successfully that started inthe um in the 70s that have kind
of worked out all their kinksover the last couple of decades,
but we need to do more nowbecause the the gate is closing
and we went through thoseshocks, especially um seven
(09:01):
years ago, and we need to kindof respond to it now.
And it's not only growing ummore crops, but it's how to
convert these crops intoproducts that people like and
that the younger generationwould like and everything else,
and we need to start making themquickly.
We don't have a lot of food umscientists in the region.
(09:21):
A lot of them tend to like, um,they tend to graduate and leave
and go and work in Europe or theUS.
So we don't have a lot of themin the region, and when we do
have them, they're tending towork for a company for like for
most of their career becauseit's stable.
So the innovation sometimeshappens from people who are not
food scientists.
Some of them cannot take it tothe level that a food scientist
(09:44):
can, and there's sometimes noframework for them to get the
support.
And and and let's talk aboutsystems.
We talk about um having food inthe Caribbean and um and
reducing the export bill.
But if we don't have the systemsin place for the food to turn
into um into a viable product,then we are just going to have
(10:04):
different people working insilos making amazing product,
but it's not growing, it's notgoing anywhere.
So let's look at how the systemswork.
Um, do you have any questionsbefore I jump into that?
SPEAKER_01 (10:15):
No, we can we can talk about the systems.
I think another part that I'dlove for you to share as well is
maybe why you think we've tendedto focus more on that, like
restaurant or universes cultureas opposed to those broader
systems.
But yeah, feel free to share.
SPEAKER_00 (10:30):
Yes.
So a lot of us uh in theCaribbean, we are very proud of
our culture, our heritage.
And a lot of people think thatdoing something outside of the
culture and heritage is wrong.
So a lot of people never feellike they have permission to go
against the status quo and tocreate a product.
If I tell the average person inthe Caribbean to create a
(10:51):
product with breadfruit or dosomething with breadfruit, the
first thing they're going to dois steam it and put some
saltfish gravy on it.
And we know, and that wouldtaste amazing or make a
breadfruit cuckoo.
But if I tell them, take thatsame breadfruit, mash it into
zero zero flour, add an egg, andthen roll it and turn it into
breadfruit paparadel, they'regoing to tell me that I'm asking
(11:12):
for too much.
But that's easy, and that'spasta that we are importing, and
that's pasta that we can make inthe region.
You see where I'm going withthis?
The thing is, we need to givepeople and the young people
permission to um to uh to thinkoutside the box and to create
and look at food in new andexciting ways.
So um one of the things I wantto jump into here is the
(11:36):
systems.
The reason why we don't have alot of um food product um in the
region is because we don't havethe systems set up yet.
First of all, the raw materialssometimes are inconsistent, and
a lot of the things that we getin the region are seasonal.
And while I respect the seasonsof the region, if you're making
(11:57):
a product to sell and to scale,you have to have constant
demand.
Secondly, there's not a lot ofcooperation um amongst the
islands.
When we have that cooperationamongst the islands, a lot of
things are going to be betterbecause you know what?
If Guadalupe has excess umcassava or excess breadfruit, we
(12:18):
can get it in Barbados, they canget it in Dominica.
We need to share what we havebecause all islands are
different.
Some are volcanic and some arelimestone, and some produce more
food than um and than others,and we need to share the food
amongst each other.
Another thing is money.
Money is really important.
(12:38):
If there's no loans, if there'sno revolving loan, if there are
no loans for entrepreneurs thatare easy to access, they're not
going to be willing to um to putall of their energy into
creating food products.
So we need more loans in theregion for um for food
entrepreneurs.
Another thing is packaging.
(12:58):
Packaging has always been anissue in the region, and it's
not because we don't know how topackage well, is that the
availability of packaging.
Um, a lot of the packagingimports, they import things that
are are um that have a good sellthrough, like those pet bottles
that you put the natural juicesin.
You see a lot of them in all theislands.
But when it comes to specialtyjars, you'll see one or two
(13:20):
jars.
So then everybody that is makingsauces has to use the same jar.
And then when it comes toputting your product against
another product in the US or inEurope, you're not going to look
the same, you're not going tolook as kitted uh as kitted out.
So we need to start to look umat our packaging a bit and take
our packaging seriously.
(13:41):
We know that we can make theproduct.
It's easy to make the product,but to get the packaging right
and to get the messaging rightas well.
So um, those are the things inthe system that needs to work.
And for even from my experiencehere, I moved back here a month
ago and trying to open abusiness in Barbados and a full
business in Barbados and to getduty free exemption, I don't
(14:03):
know where to go.
There needs to be spaces on theinternet for each entrepreneur
or any full entrepreneur orcosmetic entrepreneur to go on
to see what's the guide.
And I've been documenting mineso that people can follow suit
after when I like when I gothrough the process, I can just
plug and play.
I can say this is what you haveto do.
But we have to get those sitesup, like all the systems are
(14:26):
scattered.
We need to get them in oneplace.
So these are the systems thatstop food production.
And in terms of scaling, a lotof times when you tell somebody
in a region that you want toscale, even me, sometimes I
think it's a thousand bottles.
It's not a thousand bottlesbecause if a large chain asks
you um for product, they want toput it in all of their stores in
(14:48):
all of their states orprovidences.
They they want to get iteverywhere.
So are we ready for that?
No, we're not ready for that.
Can we be ready for that in thefuture?
Of course we can, but we need towork together.
Even if it takes one island todo it well, and everybody else
can copy or to kind of use thatformula as the like a benchmark,
I think that would be the way togo.
(15:10):
Thank you for sharing that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:11):
What you brought in terms of, you know, even your
example about breadfruit and itspotential to turn into um flour,
which could then turn, you know,and make pasta.
That got me thinking about yourwork on legacy food products and
the fact that I, you know, Idon't think that term has ever
really come to my mind.
Um, at least, and I don't know,I'm sure that also applies for a
(15:33):
number of our listeners when itcomes to our foods, right?
We have various terms that weuse, whether it's ground
provisions and, you know, all ofthese things.
But I would love for you toshare with us um what you
defined as a legacy food productand you know, what does it look
like in practice for us,especially as a region?
Why is it important forespecially food, you know,
(15:55):
Caribbean food entrepreneurs tothink about our products in
terms of, you know, things thatcan last beyond just individual
businesses?
SPEAKER_00 (16:05):
Yeah.
For me, when I define a legacyproduct, I will say a legacy
product is something that canstand the test of time, um, is
not dependent on the founder.
So if the founder goes however,it can still continue for for
generations and still have animpact on the um on the pop
culture or the or the heritageof that particular nation.
(16:28):
Now let's talk about some legacyproducts uh worldwide.
Um when we think of Italy, Ilike to go to Italy a lot.
And when I go to Italy, I buy upthings like pasta, olive oil,
um, things like um pistachiopaste, and those are their
legacy products.
Um, if I go to India, I tend topick up the spices there and all
(16:49):
the vanilla, and I bring thosehome with me.
Um, when I come to theCaribbean, we do have a lot of
legacy products.
We have our wet seasonings.
Um, we would call it jerk inJamaica, Green Seasoning in
Barbados, or a piece in um uh inHaiti.
And um, I would say the FrenchWest Indies, they also have a
lot of um legacy um productslike Sochien in Guadeloupe.
(17:13):
And we do have them there, andthey have to stand the test of
time.
Um, but now we we need to likekind of pivot and uh up the
thing and do some more.
So those things I would say thatas it relates to legacy
products, I like to see legacyproducts that are ambient,
meaning that they'reshelf-stable, that they're not
(17:34):
um on cold storage, because itmakes it easier for the food
business to export, it's cheaperfor them, and there's no
wastage.
So, in terms of something likeum, we'll jump into ready meals
after in another part of thistalk.
But if you have something like aready meal, trying to export
that to say Europe, it has along cold chain, and then the
(17:55):
price is going to go up, andthen you can't compete with what
is on the shelf in Europe.
So a lot of these things we haveto think about when we're
creating legacy products, weneed to create things that are
more shelf stable.
I'm not saying that um a coldchain product can't be a legacy
product, it can be, but when thesystems are in place, we still
have issues in the region withsystems in terms of maritime.
(18:17):
Um, like right now, if I wantedsomething from Guadalupe, I
never know where to begin.
I don't really know how to getit from Barbados.
So we have issues in terms oftransport, linkages within um
sea islands.
Um, so that's why we call alegacy product.
Anything that can stand the testof time, we have them, but we
need to develop more if we wantto compete with the
(18:39):
international market.
Now, in terms of wet seasoning,I'll give you a joke.
I used to make wet seasoning inToronto, and I would sell it.
And um, there was one time I wasselling that along with hot
sauce, and people were tastingit on um on tortilla chips, and
one person asked me if they cantaste the seasoning.
I tell them no, it's to seasonmeat.
(19:01):
And you know, and so I was atthis um, this it was a place
where they they had a lot ofbuyers, and I'm telling them no,
they can't taste this product,they need to buy it and take it
home to season meat, and I'mgone ho.
And you know what?
I eventually opened it, andpeople started to come to my
table sampling the greenseasoning, and they started
(19:24):
eating it with chips.
Did you know?
I kid you not, the sale of mygreen seasonings that day went
up.
Nobody wanted to see the hotsauce, and guess what they use
the green seasoning for?
They use it as a dip to eat withchips.
So you can see now.
Which we would never think of.
That was like last for me in theCaribbean.
(19:45):
That's like we would never thinkof doing it.
And even if we tried to do it,somebody would try to stop us.
But it goes to show you how ourfood can be interpreted in
different ways in differentregions, because in North
America, a lot of people use dryseasons when they are seasoning
their food, and that seasons arenot a part of the food culture,
(20:06):
so to speak, there.
So again, we have to think aboutif we are flexible enough to
like think out of the box andsell out of the box as well.
SPEAKER_01 (20:16):
That's a great point.
I think you know, you raisedseveral issues, right?
Whether that be like governmentand intergovernmental
infrastructure, things likepackaging and stuff, right?
Um, also our own creativity,because again, just because
things have been done this wayfor generations and eons doesn't
mean we can't pivot in things.
(20:37):
Um, you did raise a point aboutum, you know, shelf life and,
you know, sort of stability,even package foods.
And I'd I'd love for us to sortof dig into that a little bit
and maybe have you share howdoes developing products that
really help address largerregional challenges like food um
(20:58):
security, you know, importdependence, right?
I think when we combine some ofthose bigger frameworks with
things like shelf life, right,it helps us to to revamp a
little bit and also, you know,are there models in other parts
of the world that we couldcertainly follow to to mirror
this?
Um, I think, you know,especially when it comes to
post-hurricanes, especially,right?
(21:20):
Just to take Jamaicaspecifically after Hurricane
Melissa, there was so much, youknow, discussion about where was
hit was, you know, one of theparishes, my parish is seen as
the breadbasket of Jamaica,right?
What does that mean for thecomeback for farmers?
Also, everybody was talkingabout how market prices are
(21:40):
through the roof, right?
Naturally, because we've lost somuch of our crops.
And so I I have thisunderstanding that, you know, we
obviously as a region prioritizefresh foods, right?
Our ability to grow foods, but Ithink there is a difference
between shelf life andstability, right?
Being able to access.
Fresh foods, and then you know,when we pair that with various
(22:04):
issues that we face as a region,like food insecurity, like
natural disasters.
SPEAKER_00 (22:09):
Good question.
That's a load of questions.
I have a lot to say here.
So one thing before I jump intothat, I have to talk about
standardization of recipes.
No, sometimes when I develop arecipe, I will go into the
kitchen and I will just make itand I will make it with my
heart.
And I know what I'm doing.
I'm not, I have a skill next tome.
(22:30):
I have everything next to me toput it down in my notepad.
But it's just that thing thattakes over the Caribbean spirit
when you're cooking that you arenot standardizing.
And what happens to a lot offood brands, they don't have
that kind of consistency.
They don't have it all the time.
So it changes.
Sometimes you will taste a batchand it doesn't taste right or
(22:50):
whatever.
And that is because that is inour culture to cook with our
heart.
It's also in our culture to eatfresh foods.
So putting a ready meal outthere with a five-day shelf
life, and I'm trying to do thatin Barbados.
We're going to see, and I'mgoing to see how that works.
Because in Europe, we don't havea lot of frozen meals in Europe.
(23:11):
If you look at all the mealsthat are out there, they're all
chilled and they have a shelflife of seven days.
Sometimes you get a little bitmore on that.
So, how do we get the region toeat like that?
And I'm not trying to get theregion to eat less fresh, but
I'm also thinking widely aboutthe aging population.
A lot of the population isaging, and a lot of their some
(23:33):
people never had children orwhatever.
What are they going to do?
And I remember meeting a lot ofelderly people in Europe, and I
see them and I will see thembuying a lot of ready meals, and
they will buy it for the wholeweek because they don't have the
energy to stand in that kitchenand cook anymore.
How do we convert that intopharmacist and foods and
cultural foods now for thissegment and also for the
(23:56):
hospitals to standardize thingsthat they're not overwhelmed
anymore, that we can cook forthe diabetics, we can cook for
the people that havehypertension.
A lot of these issues need to besorted even before we start to
scale.
As it relates to shelf life andstability and product
development, I go right up towhere we were talking about.
Who are the food entrepreneurs?
(24:18):
Are they getting the help andthe support that they want to
from food scientists?
Maybe not.
Maybe it's somebody that had apassion and food that is out
there creating something andthey're creating it because of
the love of it, but they don'tunderstand shelf life.
They don't know even how to do ashelf life test.
Um, some um islands don't evenhave um testing labs for food.
(24:39):
How do we work that like how dowe um cooperate?
Can Barbados uh take food fromLake St.
Vincent if they don't have one?
Or vice versa, how are wecooperating?
And we have to have larger foodand and um conversations.
A lot of times we have theseclimate change sustainability
conversations about food, butwe're not really addressing the
(25:01):
systems and the cooperation.
So I think that's where we needto start, right there.
Um, in terms of stability, wehave a very humid environment in
a lot of countries, and when weare creating things, we're not
thinking about that.
We have to think about thingsthat desiccate.
And when we think aboutstability as well, we need to
(25:22):
also think about how can itserve a country when um we have
natural disasters.
Everybody in the Caribbean hasgone through this, but when we
have natural disasters, theysaid to stock up on can and dry
goods.
We have a few canneries in theregion that are canning biana
sausages and and everythingelse, but what are we creating
(25:42):
in terms of dry soups?
What are we creating is um interms of rations that can hold
people, things that arelightweight, that people can
stock up on, things that areaffordable.
When we're developing products,we need to think about what if.
And and a lot of times wedevelop products because of our
ego, because we we likesomething, but we're not
(26:04):
thinking about the widerpicture.
So when we're developing, wereally need to think about how
can we help the region becausethese things are inevitable, the
hurricanes are inevitable.
Um, sometimes the um the thegates closing are are
inevitable.
How can we sustain ourselves?
And that's the one of the majorquestions that anybody
developing food needs to answer,but it's time to start doing
(26:27):
even one product, even addingsomething, one product to your
line that can help, um, it's awin.
SPEAKER_01 (26:34):
Pivoting, I I guess not really pivoting, but it's
sort of in tandem with that.
I'd love to get your take on ifthere are other, you know, and
this could of course be outsideof the Caribbean, if there are
other cultures throughout theworld that you've seen have done
sort of what you're talkingabout, right?
So finding um a particularproduct that, you know, they've
(26:56):
they've pivoted and turned intoa sort of something that's has a
larger shelf life or, you know,that they've ch taken from their
traditional food culture um andhave really developed into being
a successful product for us tothen, you know, sort of use that
model um and pivot in our ownculture.
SPEAKER_00 (27:16):
I'm thinking, because I know that there's many
of them, but the answer to thatquestion is I always say this.
I fell in love with uh fufu ayear ago or two years ago, and
um at first I didn't understandit.
I had cucko in Barbados, and wehad things that like breadfruit
cocoa and those kind of formats,but fufu in a box, it's it's one
(27:39):
of my favorite things ever.
And I I always say that if ifI'm hungry, fufu is always in
that box, and that's one is aconvenience food, but it's made
out of um the flour of say greenplantain or even things like
dashin that we have here.
Um, it has to be stabilized withpotato starch because it doesn't
form out well when it doesn'thave that starch and it doesn't
(28:01):
form into that starchy ball oranything else.
And I think that's one thingthat Africa gave to themselves,
but no, it's in in uh in turngiving to the world that format
of dry a dry carbohydrate umthat is um that can be put in
the box and can be like broughttogether very quickly with some
water and heat.
(28:22):
And I have developed somethingrecently that kind of um is not
on the same level as Fufu.
So I looked at moringa.
Moringa is growing radio andrampant in the region.
I never grew up saying moringa,but it just appeared um um in
some um somewhat.
And what I did with that productis that people always look at
(28:44):
you know taking pods and eatingthe seeds and using it for
medicinal purposes.
And I was like, you know what, Ilike these flowers, these
flowers are spicy, the leavesdon't taste too bad.
So what I did is I took driedmeringa and I converted it into
a spice that you can sprinkle onfood, add to your food to
increase its nutritional value.
(29:06):
So if you're eating rice, ricehas X amount of calories, X
amount of protein, but with onetablespoon of that meringue
seasoning, you're going toincrease all of your vitamins
and minerals and it tastes good.
And I think that that wouldprobably change the way how
people see merenga and use it ina fun way.
We even put it on loaded fries,like giving that to somebody
(29:28):
thinking that it's Italianseason, but it's merenga, I
think that's kind of cool.
SPEAKER_01 (29:34):
Definitely, I agree.
I do want us to um hold space alittle bit for you maybe to talk
about possible solutions, right?
We've talked about variousproblems, whether that's you
know, distribution pipelines andregional cooperations and
partnerships.
Um, but you know, what does itlook in your mind, or what would
(29:56):
you love to see in terms of howwe can move from the sort of
model of individual businesssuccess stories into you know
building these actual systemsthat work across the region and
work together?
SPEAKER_00 (30:12):
I think that um farmers need to step to the
front because I think that theyare the backbone to our
existence.
And I think that we rely on themso much, and we've had issues in
the past with where farmersdon't feel loved um by society,
(30:35):
and and and and they're notencouraged to grow.
I think the first solution is toget farmers and food producers
in a room together so that wecan start to work out what they
have and what we can make withit.
We have young minds ready to umum to do something in society,
(30:56):
and I do think that um they needto do some um workshops where
they can like kind of thinkabout what they can create with
these products.
So I think that's one of thesolutions to make creating food
exciting, make it lookrewarding, because if people
don't see something isrewarding, they're not going to
(31:17):
want to do it.
Most young people want to bestreamers now, and because it's
rewarding, how can we make themwant to be full entrepreneurs?
We need to start showing themthe way out of it and the way to
success with it.
So also even using a successstory to show them you could be
like her, you could be like thisbusiness.
(31:37):
I think that's important.
I do think that um uh anothersolution would be for the
governments to make it easierfor food entrepreneurs to
operate.
Um, a lot of them don't, andit's it and it has been that way
forever, and it's because a lotof people never really talked
about it.
(31:58):
And if they make life easier foruh for food entrepreneurs, we'll
have more of them.
And making life easier for me isto remove the import duties on
the packaging and remove theimport duties on some of the raw
material.
I do think that entrepreneursneed to be creating from within
the region and within what wehave on the region at that
(32:19):
point.
But we can't say that becausewe're going to need binaries,
we're going to need somepreservatives sometimes, and we
don't always make them.
And it encourages um evenscientists and young people to
start being the ones that createthose um those preservatives.
Um, we research has always leftbehind in the region, and we
(32:40):
need to um actually create aspace for that research so that
um more people are interested inum um in the industry.
As it relates to scaling, um, Ido think that some islands are
small and and they might not beable to scale.
But if one hand got cut, theother can um um can assist.
(33:02):
The solution for that is theislands that can do the heavy
lifting and the heavy scalingshould be able to scale for to
smaller um uh food entrepreneurswhen they get to that level.
Um, I don't think sometimes,even me, I have a product now.
If I want to scale, I don't haveanybody to turn to.
(33:25):
I might have to go back intoEurope to get it um scale, and
that shouldn't be.
Um there are existing foodcompanies now making drinks
sauces and what's not, and a lotof them don't like to white
label, and and and it has beenculturally like this.
They don't want to make forother people, they just want to
make their brand, and that's it.
Then there's issues with NDAs.
(33:47):
We don't have systems in placethat are affordable for
entrepreneurs to access NDAs,they have to go to a lawyer now
and you know and spend a lot ofmoney, and that's uh um
something that a foodentrepreneur doesn't have.
So a lot of things has um willhave to change, and those are
the solutions to encourage uhexisting food producers to white
(34:09):
label so that um it makes spacefor more uh products.
And one of the other solutionsfor me is if you're uh
complaining as a region andsaying, oh, we have a high
import bill, we need to do anaudit.
What it is that we are umimporting that is causing this
bill to be so high?
(34:29):
If it's rice, some of um islandsin Barbados for sure we can't
grow rice right now.
Um, some other islands like umplaces, it's not islands, but
places like Guyana, they have umthat they can grow rice.
Can we get from them?
You know what I mean?
Um, so a lot of these thingshave to, we have to have
conversations on a regionallevel.
(34:51):
So I um grew up um under theEuropean Union system, and the
European Union cooperates reallywell, and I would like to see
that cooperation extend toCARICOM in a way um that the
European Union um operates whenit comes to food.
Um we need full cooperation andwe need exchange of information.
(35:12):
We need databases that have umum that information.
And we need to know when there'sa glut.
I'll buy um I'll buy thosebreadfruits from you, Dominica,
when you have that glut.
So I think those are thesolutions right now, and I I
want more young people, as Isaid, to see the um the um the
(35:33):
joy of full science.
And one thing I wanted tomention is that a lot of food
entrepreneurs don't know thatthey can access um external
investment.
They think that that is only forum TV shows in America or in
Europe.
Not little of them could getinvestment.
And because of this mindset, alot of them don't want to grow.
(35:55):
They kind of just make productsfor their um their community and
what's not.
Um, but we can um in the region,we can now access international
investment.
And we also need the literacy umin there.
We need to understand that whenan investor comes and offers uh
and wants a 20% stake in thecompany, what does that mean for
you as the owner?
(36:16):
So um we we need to have thatinformation.
We need to show a success storyin the region where you have uh
uh an international investorinvesting into the company and
it and is able to scale, evenbuilding a factory in that
particular island and andscaling and exporting.
Um, and one more thing a lot offood entrepreneurs always want
(36:39):
to export.
So before they even think ofsupplying to their community,
they think about exportingbecause they don't think that
they can get a good price fortheir product in their
particular island.
And that might be true or false,but the issue goes back is a bit
deeper, and I'll say this a lotof supermarkets import their
(37:03):
food and they get them fromdistributors, and distributors
get them from anotherdistributor, right?
And a lot of supermarkets do notwant to open their doors to
small producers to do all thebilling and everything else,
they don't want to deal with it.
So then if if a producer wantsto get on a shelf, it's very
(37:24):
challenging to get on the shelfin a lot of the regional
supermarkets.
There's some regionalsupermarkets that are very local
forward, and there's some thatare not.
And you can't, at the end of theday, you can't tell somebody how
to run a business, but peopleneed to see where they can win
when they are doing somethingand they need to see a win.
SPEAKER_01 (37:44):
Those points, particularly your penultimate
one on investment, also broughtme to specifically thinking
about diaspora um and you know,investment by the diaspora.
Um, I think, you know, there arethings that are certainly being
done in terms of markets and umbeing able to ship certain
(38:05):
things from the Caribbean to,for instance, the US, right?
Um, or the fact that, you know,I can get a can of Aki.
Not that I want to eat can Aki,but that's another story within
itself, right?
Um, how would you like to seeour diaspora really playing a
vivid and like, you know,important role, not just in, you
(38:29):
know, supporting thesebusinesses themselves, but
really in terms of investinginto um, you know, food sciences
and food entrepreneurs from theregion?
SPEAKER_00 (38:39):
Very good question.
And this one's I'm going to giveyou a spinner where this is
concerned.
So um I was a part of thediaspora up to one month ago,
and um I always um talk topeople in the diaspora as it
relates to that.
So the diaspora right now isinvesting mostly in real estate
in carabining because that'swhere the um the money is at the
(39:02):
end of the day.
Um, but uh giving you somedifferent ways that the diaspora
can invest in full sets, if notdirectly.
We have direct investment likedoing a fun and that kind of
thing, where um promisingcompanies can pull from.
But how about creating apipeline that the companies can
(39:23):
send products to you so that youcan feed the rest of the
diaspora?
You have the right to open anLLC in um in um in the US or a
limited company in Europe, andif you have that right to do
that, you can create uh apathway for the small um
entrepreneurs.
(39:43):
And some businesses have donethat already.
There are some that are umselling Caribbean products
online and um to the diaspora inuh in North America, and that's
going pretty well because you'renot missing home as much um when
like when you have your littlecomfort keepers.
But um I'll say this thediaspora can also create um pool
(40:07):
on real estate for certain umstores and that kind of thing as
well, because a lot of the timeswe think of diaspora investment
as only creating the fun andlike giving back to some of the
full companies, but how aboutthem leasing a warehouse, um,
leasing um a space that or wesay in French EPC, uh a fine
(40:31):
grocery store or um or even anonline store that people can buy
that at.
So there's a lot of differentways that the diaspora can
invest, and it's and and andthese are smaller ways until the
confidence is there to um investmore heavily into promising
companies.
Um again, they can um put theirfunds into um certain um
(40:57):
governmental bodies, and thegovernmental bodies can put out
a call for um businesses to cometo get that funding as well, or
those grants as well, so theycan also create grants um in
their communities as well.
SPEAKER_01 (41:11):
You make a great point.
I thought of um like virtualbusinesses like Carib Shopper in
that question, where you knowyou can definitely order from
them and you know get whateverregional peppa sauce, whatever
it is.
SPEAKER_00 (41:24):
But again, I I think that even beyond something like
that, I think that um there arelots of people in the diaspora
looking for something else todo, um, or even people that are
retired that still want to dosomething, they can create
spaces um for these particularfood businesses in many ways in
(41:45):
their communities, in theirchurches, and get the products
moving, get people to tastingthe products and what's not.
It's not only money, it's it'sit's access to certain markets
and to certain people.
Wonderful, wonderful.
SPEAKER_01 (42:00):
Um, I think that'll bring me to my penultimate
question.
Everybody knows um of everystrictly facts episode.
I'm always in love with the waythat we connect so many
different parts of our cultureto popular culture, and in that
I mean usually music, um, butalso, you know, books, poetry,
(42:20):
um, novels, etc.
In in preparation for thisepisode, I kept singing Super
Cat's Vineyard Patti.
Um, that also led me down aweird a line where I said Super
Cat Vineyard Potty, then itbrought me to the Super Cat and
Heavy D song, which is aninspiration for one of Protege's
latest songs called At With Eat.
(42:42):
Um, I also thought about variousCaribbean folk songs that talk
about food.
And so I would love to turn toyou and ask you what are some of
your favorite examples of howCaribbean food shows up in our
popular culture?
SPEAKER_00 (42:55):
I'm an old millennial, so this song.
Um, I would think for me, I grewup with this one song in mind,
and you might not know it.
But you know, Stampango inJamaica, we call it fish cakes
in Barbados.
And I was a little girl, and itwould come over every time on
(43:16):
local TV, and basically it wouldgo fish cakes and bakes every
bajan does make, and they wouldtalk about the method.
You put in the salt fish, youput in the flour, spice it up
with seasoning, and add aversion of soco powder, meaning
that the baking powder was thesoap powder.
So I think that that song livesin my head rent-free um as it
(43:37):
relates to food culture and myheritage and everything else.
And we don't hear it enough.
I need to call the radio stationto put it back on, especially
during independence.
It's a lovely song, and itteaches you basically how to
make the fish cake.
SPEAKER_01 (43:53):
That's a wonderful example.
I'll be sure to add it to ourstrictly fact syllabus for our
listeners to check out.
Um, I do want us to close withmaybe uh a hopeful note towards
uh a wider future, right?
And so if we were to thinkabout, you know, the Caribbean
region, Caribbean food economies20, 30, 40 years ahead, right?
(44:16):
Um, what would it truly reallylook like for us to be investing
in our food systems?
Um, what role do you thinkentrepreneurs, various
communities would play ingovernments, right?
Definitely, um, would play intransforming Caribbean food from
something we celebrateculturally into something that
(44:38):
also sustains us economicallyfor generations to come.
SPEAKER_00 (44:42):
I think it will start from the collective
conscience of the people in theregion, to be honest.
I think it starts with them ummaking more edible spaces in
their own homes, having thatrespect and full sovereignty.
Um, it also will look likegovernments having not only
stockpiling, but having umspaces for ambient full storage
(45:06):
in case of any um naturaldisaster, introduction of freeze
drying, especially in terms oftechnology, so that we can
freeze dry a lot of the thingsuh for a rainy day or a not so
rainy day, um, it would looklike um more um or brands listed
(45:28):
in um the more affluent umsupermarkets um overseas.
And and and the reason why I saythat is because a lot of the
times we'll say toentrepreneurs, if you can't
scale, go gourmet.
Because when you can't do a lotof products, 100,000 um in in in
(45:48):
one skew, you can make 5,000 ina skew, but it will be gourmet,
it will be more expensive.
So I I would think that weshould have a place, just like
Asian food has a place, and um,and you will see all of the
amazing Indian sauces, like thebutter chicken sauces, having a
place um on certain shelves andoutside of um communities,
(46:13):
because sometimes you will onlysee Caribbean products where you
have a Caribbean demographic.
So I would like to see more ofour products being celebrated um
outside of that.
That's what I see for the next40 years, and what I would like
to also see is that we um focusum on covering more of our
(46:37):
arable land.
There's a lot of arable landthat is not um that doesn't have
anything right now, and alsofocus on fruit.
There's some islands that do notgrow any fruit, and that you
can't find any local fruit onsat islands, believe it or not,
there are islands like this thatexist, and I will I would like
to see more local fruit beinggrown in the Caribbean, and I
(47:00):
want Caribbean farmers to bemore uh adventurous.
A lot of us never thought thatgrapes could grow in the
Caribbean.
Uh, and and my dad has beengrowing grapes for like 20
years, and we I always have agrapevine and have grapes, and
people will be like, You yougrew that at home.
And they wouldn't believe me,but to be more adventurous,
there's a lot of things that wecould be growing that we are
(47:21):
importing.
We have the climate for grapes,we need to grow grapes, you
know, and we have the climate todo strawberries, especially a
lot of the more um uhmountainous islands can grow
some um strawberries, do more ofthat because you can do it, and
then there's a once you createit, there's a market for it.
(47:41):
And that's what I have to say.
SPEAKER_01 (47:43):
Beautifully said, thank you so much, Tamar, for
joining us um for this episode.
I think you know, one thing I'mreally pushing us all to do and
think about for CaribbeanAmerican Heritage Month is think
about the future of theCaribbean.
And this I think is one primaryway that we can definitely do
that, not just in the immediatefuture, but how we are thinking
(48:03):
about, you know, our lives andthe generations of our
communities to come.
So with that, I thank you againso much for joining me for this
episode for our Strictly Factsfamily.
Um, I will be sure to tag Tamarin all the social media posts
and everything on the StrictlyFacts website.
And you can be sure to followher for more if you're
(48:25):
definitely into food science andwanting to learn more, or even
get your own products off theground in terms of you know
becoming food entrepreneursyourselves.
And so with that, thank you all.
Until next time, look a more.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.