Episode 2: Tom Camuso on Les Paul, Analog Recording, Studio Culture, and the Future of Engineering

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joey Stuckey (00:00):
Welcome once again to the Stuck on Sound Podcast,
where we try to bring youentertaining, informative people
who are at the top of theirgame.
And it's always a privilege.
I'm so impressed and justgrateful that I have had the
opportunity to have so manyamazing people on the show.

(00:21):
And uh today is no exception.
And I've been looking forwardto this all week.
This has been the thing I'vebeen hanging my hat on all week.
It's like today I could havetalked to Tom.
I have Tom Camuso here, who's afantastic uh engineer and more
importantly, a stellar humanbeing.
And I'm so excited to talk tohim about all the cool things he
is doing.
Tom, welcome to the program.
I appreciate your time, myfriend.

(00:42):
Hey, buddy, thanks for havingme.
Yeah, I mean, this is this isexciting.
You know, uh you you have donea lot of cool things, and um and
we'll talk about most of them.
We'll leave a few things forpeople to find on the dark web.
Uh, but um what I what I wantto start with, because I'm so
interested in in you know howyou how you got into the music

(01:05):
business.
I always think that that's afun story because I mean, if we
were sane, we would not be inthis business.
We would I mean, you know, yougot to be a little crazy to be
in the music business.
And you, but you've done somecool stuff.
I mean, I I know I was readingthrough your your bio, and I
mean I want to tell you howimpressed I am that your bio is

(01:25):
actually really short where likeI couldn't condense mine down.
I had so much to say.
Like my bio is ridiculous.
Uh, I haven't done I haven'tworked with the some of the
stars you have, but my bio is isjust like this unwieldy
document.
But anyway, um, I know that Iknow that one of your early
experiences um w was uh doingsome stuff with Lenny Kravitz.
So just tell me a little bitabout how you got in the

(01:46):
business and why and um and andhow that all started for you.

Tom Camuso (01:50):
Yeah, well, like I think it's not a a unique story.
Most engineers are failedmusicians.
We all wanted to be rock stars.
So and I uh am no exception.
I I started when I was like 17,I got um a record deal with
Epic Records.
Nice.
And I dropped out of highschool and pursued that.

(02:15):
I came out to California tomake a record out at AM.
And like every other band, youyou know, you break up.
And my thought then was um Iwould go back to New York and
get a job in a recording studioand just find, you know, hand
pick the best musicians and andget another record deal and in a

(02:37):
couple months be back out in LAmaking records.
And um, so I went back to NewYork.
I got a job in a recordingstudio, and it was actually the
studio where Lenny Kravitz wasmaking his records.
And it was right, you know, hewas starting to have all the
hits and starting to get paid,and basically the studio, he

(02:58):
sort of absorbed the studio andit became basically all him.
So I just ended up working inthe studio with Lenny, and it
was easy then to see that he wasa rock star and I was not a
rock star.

So that's how dare he shatter your illusions.

Tom Camuso (03:17):
Yeah, so but uh but it was great because I got to
actually learn from a rock starhow to make great records, and
his records were very much aboutthe the recording process, and
and you know, it was alwaysgoing after a certain vibe and a
certain sound.
Um, and again, I was not makinghis records, I was just an

(03:38):
assistant.
I, you know, was the guysetting the mics up and and and
you know doing that stuff, but Igot to watch um for about
almost you know seven or eightyears I was with with those guys
and just watching how greatrecords were made and and you
know and and seeing the process.
So, you know, once that ran itscourse, I then started a string

(04:02):
of my own studios all over NewYork, and and I still have uh my
studio in Brooklyn today.

So, I mean, I I want to I want to backtrack just
a second because tell me alittle bit about uh what uh I
mean are you a guitar player orwhat's your what's your
instrument?
What was your rock star tool?

Tom Camuso (04:21):
Yeah, I was a guitar player.
I mean, I don't really play, Iplay a little of everything in
the studio just when there'sdowntime, but I wouldn't say I'm
a a musician at this point.

I gotcha.
And and and I have to say now,as a blind man, uh you know,
microphones are are my jam.
I I uh I lust after them.
Uh I I may have a problem.
I may need some therapy.
But I mean they are you knowear substitutes, you know.
And um I want to I want themall, I'm trying to catch up with

(04:55):
Sylvia Massey, which isprobably not gonna happen.
But uh it's my dream um to havethis as many mics as she has.
But um, but I do think that,you know, you know, when you
were saying you were the guy whosat up the microphones, I mean,
I do think that is really uhwhere a lot of the magic
happens.
I mean, that's you know, to me,that's that's really one of the

(05:16):
things that uh a lot of uh theI hate to say this, it makes me
sound really old, but uh thekids today are are not learning
as much of that technique as asyou know as I did when I first
started.
And and how I first started wasthe scientific method, what
happens if I do this?
I mean, that's you know, itit's just that.
But what tell me what like likewith with your you know setting

(05:41):
up microphones and being partof the Kravitz thing, and you
know, I mean his guitar tonesand drum tones, you know, are
just some of the greatest in theindustry.
I mean, just for the for thevibe.
I mean, just uh but but I meanobviously you get to learn and
and see some of that, but Imean, how do how do you feel
about mic technique?
What do you think the mostimportant thing is for you as an
engineer?

(06:01):
What gets you through yourprocess to make a record?

Tom Camuso (06:04):
Well, I mean, with the Lenny stuff, he was you
know, he plays everything.
He plays the drums, theguitars, the bass.
Yeah, a lot of it is he'sgreat, you know.
Yeah, you put any mic in frontof someone who's great and
you're it's gonna sound great.
Um, so that's a piece of it,but um obviously gear is
important.
Um you know, it goes both ways.

(06:25):
You can make a great recordwith little to no equipment, and
you could also make a greatrecord with great equipment, you
know.
Right.
Um, I think guys like us uh youknow came came into it before
computers, so you didn't havethe options that you have now
where you can go, well, I'm justgonna put a modeler on it and

(06:46):
add the room, or I'm gonna, youknow, take out the the 60 cycle
hum that's in the amp, or youknow, because RX.
Or you just have all thesetools where you can just go,
let's just keep moving, don'tworry about it, I'll fix it
later.
Where you know, you and I hadthe microphone, and that was it
in the room that you were in.

(07:07):
So, and you know, usually justa couple guitars or amps to pick
from.
So your choice was move themicrophone, you know, or you
know, do whatever you can withyour the limited options you
have to make it great.
So, you know, it's just sort ofa different mindset.
And now, I mean, I'm lazy likeeveryone else.

(07:30):
I've adopted a lot of the youknow, the the the practices of
of the new engineers with allthe tricks and and you know
melodyning and and you knowdynasisting and vocal lining and
all that stuff.
Yeah, but I like to useeverything in moderation and use

(07:51):
stuff when it's useful and whenit's you know it's invisible.
And I still like using oldcompressors, but I'll I'll you
know sometimes put a super fastplug-in in front of it so that
you know it's doing the bulk ofthe heavy lifting of the
compression, and I'm getting thevibe off the old tube tube
compressor.
That is really clever.

That is a that is an excellent point.
I hadn't thought of doing that.
You're that was that you'regive me some secret sauce here.

Tom Camuso (08:18):
Yeah, there's all sorts of tricks you can.
I mean, you know, I'm all forthe technology when it works.
Yeah.
Um obviously, sometimes it, youknow, people use it as a crutch
and they'll just go, all right,give me another one, give me
another one, give me anotherone.
And then they walk away, go, doyou think you got what you
need?
It's a guessing game of whetheryou can piece it all together.

(08:40):
Yeah.
So um, so that's where it, youknow, it starts to get you go
down a road that I don't like todo.
But but there are definiteadvantages to all this stuff,
and especially with the thearchival work I've been doing
with restoring old recordings,some of this new AI stuff is
incredible of what you can do.

Yeah, I was gonna, I was gonna, that was that's a
beautiful segue because um uh Iwanted to talk to you about
that.
You know, I got a chance to umuh I imposed on you and said,
Hey, uh I I want to come see theLes Paul tube console.
I'm in LA.
Um uh can I get 15 minutes?
And and then you end up givingme like two hours, which was
just so gracious.

(09:24):
Um and it was it was amazing.
And as a blind person, I mean,you know, uh the that was a
pilgrimage for me because LesPaul was one of my you know
greatest influences in so manyways, and sort of the forefather
of multi-track recording andand you know, all this stuff,
and and to to see a console uhlike that um you know was just

(09:47):
just absolutely mind-blowing.
And then then to hear you talkabout the process of getting
these tapes into shape uh fromthat less left behind uh is just
just stunning.
So I my my understanding, andand you can correct me if I'm
wrong, essentially the Les BallFoundation, um, and you're

(10:12):
you're sort of the official youknow archivist engineer uh for
that, um had to restore Les'soriginal gear that this stuff
was recorded on so that so thatthe tapes would become
accessible for uh beingdigitized.
Is that is that basically whathappened?

Tom Camuso (10:32):
Yeah, so basically all of Less's record he kept
everything.
He had over 30,000 recordingsand they were all in the house.
So when he passed.
Oh, I'm setting my phone here.
When he passed, um, all of thetapes were taken out of the
house and and brought to theLibrary of Congress to digitize.

(10:52):
And we actually sent a team ofour own guys down there, worked
a deal with the library just toexpedite it and get it done
because there was so much to do.
So um that was almost a year ofof digitizing everything.
And then once it was alldigitized, then we started our
work of sifting through it,figuring out what we had and

(11:16):
what what you know what wasthere that was stuff that we
could, you know, either releaseor stuff that was unreleased.
And then in the process, um wefound this art this this uh
basically this uh about 200songs worth of songs where they
were recorded uh either disc todisc or tape to tape, which was

(11:39):
the process less used um in theearly days of of overdubbing.
And basically he'd record toone either lathe or tape
machine, play it back, playalong with it while he records
to another.
So there were about 200 songswith that, we call it a stem
tree.
And uh that was really whatstarted the ball rolling of

(12:02):
there might be something here wecan do.
And uh that turned into anothercouple years of of figuring
out, and basically the idea waswe have these, they're all mono
recordings all baked togetherbecause he's just playing on top
of himself.
But we had every uh sort ofiteration of the process of a

(12:23):
song.
So you'd have the first youknow, guitar and bass, then the
next recording would be the samething with an extra guitar or
an a new or a vocal or twovocals, and it would just keep
piling up.
So the idea was if we couldtake all these recordings, line
them up, and somehow eitherphase or source separate the

(12:46):
material and make uh amulti-track that never existed
because again, this was all doneoverdubbing on top of of
itself.
So and that was you know aprocess of of of cracking the
code on how to do it, all withthe expectation of being able to
remix his his music.

(13:08):
Um and basically because theprocess he was using, this back
and forth, his mixes weresometimes 20 to 40 tape
generations old when he got tothe final overdub.
And you hear that in in themixing.
So this was sort of a you know,in the spirit of less and in

(13:30):
the spirit of always pushing thetechnology, can we do this?
So that was sort of the birthof the whole studio and and the
uh and the idea of restoring allof his gear and and and doing
what we're doing out in in LosAngeles.

So I mean you have you have the octopus, right,
which is the eight-track.
First multi-track ever.
Yeah.
And and it and and did yourestore it because you did you
restore it because you needed itto play back tapes, or you just
restored it because you could?
Or I mean, how did that?
I mean, I I can't imagine thatwas an easy process.

Tom Camuso (14:04):
It wasn't, and we didn't need to.
It was just um, again, when Lespassed, all the tapes went to
the library to be digitized, allof the equipment went to
museums, and Les set up the theLes Paul Foundation before he
passed, with the goal ofbasically teaching, you know,
future generations that hewasn't just a guitar, that he

(14:24):
actually invented all of theseprocesses that we still use to
make records, you know, whetherit's tape delay or you know,
multi-track recording andoverdubbing and you know.
So um so when we had this ideato try to pull apart the
multi-tracks, uh the goal wasalways to, if we can, you know,

(14:46):
make a a new cleaner, you know,version of the mixes, to release
them in an archival box of youknow, where you'd have the
original monos remastered andthen these new stereo remixes
that we're doing that are allcleaned up, and you had this
ability to to uh to rebalancethings a bit and and you know,

(15:08):
treat things individually andgive it a more modern sound and
do a stereo mix.
Um so that was always the idea.
And you know, after Les passed,there really wasn't much the
foundation could do because hewasn't making new music, so you
could put the stuff up onstreaming services, you know.
Um, and as far as theeducational aspect of the

(15:32):
foundation, um you know, wewould give out grants and stuff
like that.
But again, there wasn't muchbeyond that you could do.
Um so the idea with with uhrestoring the gear was if we
restore the gear, we could mixthe box set on his gear, which
is uh you know, a cooler storyto tell that we've restored

(15:55):
everything and we're actuallymixing it on you know his tube
console, which is the firstmulti-track console.
Um and assemble all the gear.
I mean, we've restored thelathe, we've restored the
octopus, we've we have a asound-on-sound machine that we
have at the studio that'sfunctional.
Um, we're restoring his the hisoriginal Wally Jones tube mixer

(16:18):
that he did all the first hitswith.
So we have his guitars there.
So it not only could we mixthis all this uh the his archive
on it, but then it served as agreat place to host students and
do classes and and haveeverything in one room where
it's tactile and people couldcome in and and actually use the

(16:40):
equipment and and see you knowwhat Les did and how how far
we've come and yet how similarthe process still is to how Les,
you know, did it back in the inthe 50s.
So it sort of checked all theboxes for the foundation.
And um not only are we doing,you know, mostly we're doing

(17:01):
education out of there, but um,you know, we're working on his
archive, we're bringing in newartists to make new records, and
again, and it just using thegear to make these new records
to keep Les name out there andalive and have new artists
talking about him, and you know,everyone's you know posting

(17:21):
stuff from the studio and andyou know, it's just sort of all
evolved into this largerproject, you know, all just sort
of to fulfill what he wantedwith the foundation.
So it was a great opportunity.

Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
And and and I'm excited to beuh one of those artists um
that's uh pestered you pesteredyou until I convinced you to let
me come in.

Tom Camuso (17:48):
Yeah, but we've had a lot of like you know, famous
guys come through, and it's ayou know, it's a bit of a a
press exchange as well, but youare the first, like uh you'll be
the first, I think, payingcustomer to just say, I just
want to come and use it.

Yeah, yeah.
I'm excited to I feel honoredto do that.
And and it's it's really I meanthe you know the I I love that
you mentioned the word tactileuh when we talked about the the
gear and the experience.
And um I think you know there'ssomething to you know turning a

(18:25):
potentiometer or sliding afader, or you know, I think I
think there's some magic there.
Um I I think that you know uhwhen we're in Pro Tools or
whatever, you can move by atenth of a dB or you can move by
a whole DB or whatever, but youknow, it's more it's a little

(18:45):
bit more precise, you know,mathematical measurement, and
whereas, you know, pushing afader up till you like it is is
you know, you you you kind ofknow where it is db wise.
I mean, there's there aremarkings that kind of tell you
oh you're at zero or whatever.
But I mean there's somethingthere's something to like just
tapping the fader and and youknow, I don't really know

(19:06):
precisely how much db I justchanged, but yeah, it's right
now.
You know, look there's there'sthere's something to being able
to grab that sort of you knowinstinctual um place and not
having to be uh super precise uhabout you know how much we're
changing it by.
Now, now that being said, uh Iam very sensitive to uh decibel

(19:28):
change, and uh I pretty muchknow and can't look at the
waveform as a blind man, and Ihave a sighted assistant um that
works for me, you know,sometimes.
Um, and um and I'll say, youknow, clip gained that 2 dB and
and you know, or whatever.
And I'm usually right.
I mean, I'm usually, you know,I'm usually right on the money

(19:48):
of knowing like how much I needto to move something by.
But but anyway, there issomething to that.
I I love I love the uh the thehis console was such a fun thing
to to feel as a blind person.
And uh uh you know, there wereknobs instead of faders and uh
and all that.
And and and you know, it's beena minute.
I've I've had a nap since wevisited at the studio.

(20:10):
Uh but remind me, like how howmuch EQ and stuff is on that
console?
I mean, how much how muchmixing can you?

Tom Camuso (20:17):
I mean, and that's basically sort of the the
storyline to all the educationwe do is the limitation breeds
the creativity.
And when you come to thestudio, it's an eight-channel,
three-bus mono console with aneight-track tape machine that
only allows you to record threetracks at a time.
Right.
So now we have Pro Tools.

(20:38):
You could, you know, we have arack of API mic breeds.
If you wanted to record anorchestra and make it sound
like, you know, a you know, aradio head record, you can do
that.
Um, but most people come to dothe Les Paul thing, and and and
you know, and the limitation ispart of the experience because

(20:59):
you actually have to come withthe idea of how your song is
actually going to be.
You have to have an idea of thepart you're actually gonna
play, you know, stuff like that.
And the EQ also isn't is noexception.
I mean, it's it's cool, butit's it's just a a very you know
musical sort of you know, notvery uh precise surgical kind of

(21:23):
EQ.

Which there's some joy in that.

Tom Camuso (21:26):
You know there the console was built by Les and
Rain Norma, who um a lot ofpeople would know from the
Fairchild compressor.
He built the 660.
Um and basically at the sametime he was building the
console.
So essentially that console isa Fairchild tube console.
You know, it's designed by Lesand built by Rain.

(21:48):
How cool.
Yeah, most of the tubes are thesame exact tubes that are in a
Fairchild.
The way he does the staging onthe mic prees are very similar.
It's it's a super unique sortof.
of sound but as you wouldimagine it's a super hi-fi you
know even though it's the firstmulti-track console it's um it's

(22:09):
incredible and recordingstraight through the console to
Pro Tools you could make youknow the most current record and
no one would know you'rerecording on the the the first
ever multi-track console um yougo to the octopus to the to the
a-track then you're gonna timetravel a bit you're you're gonna
know that you uh you're usingvintage gear but uh but the

(22:33):
studio it's itself is superflexible you can basically you
can record live to the lathe youyou can do anything it's all
you know patchable and we'redoing we we have we have opted
uh to to do the less policy uhas with the lathe and with the
console um we're gonna track itto Pro Tools instead of tape but

(22:56):
um just for just for timepurposes really tape machine is
a uh huge time suck it's yeahyeah and so we're just because
we yeah we get we got a missionuh but we but but we have but we
have basically it's it's whatI'm trying to do is a you know
live and studio recordessentially and uh just getting
the the the sex appeal and andthe the cool vibes off the

(23:16):
console and and uh just havingthat fun and and and the other
thing is now I I have to ask uhbecause I was I didn't not have
that piece of the puzzle aboutthe fairchild um can you do can
you I mean the not the fairchild the pull tech sorry um the
can you do the uh pull techtrick on it can you can you can
you can you do this we don'thave pull text we only we we

(23:38):
it's only we we have a fairchild stereo 670 but but no
poltex and okay so I didn't knowif I didn't know if you could
do the some of the some of thoseuh fun fun uh cut and boost at
the same time tricks that weused to that we got oh on the
console yeah uh yeah I guess youcould there is like a uh a

(23:58):
shelving kind of thing on it uhyou know like a fixed fixed DQ
yeah but uh but it's definitelyit's a totally different vibe
than a pull tech.

I gotcha I gotcha well it it's it's it really is a
fascinating uh place uh to tobe and uh you know and and the
you played for me um smoke ringsum with Mary Ford and uh I
learned again you're just sortof a font of knowledge uh I I

(24:31):
learned that she was a guitarplayer I never knew that um you
showed me yeah I mean she was afine guitar player I mean yeah
you played me one of her one ofher tracks where she was playing
rhythm guitar and it was justit was awesome and uh but but I
heard that I gotta tell you manwhat when you played me some of
the stuff you've been restoringand and you know mixing and and

(24:53):
you know all this stuff uh I wasjust blown away with the the
clarity and the quality of itand I got home and I looked up
smoke rings on Spotify to hearthe original recording and uh
whoa what a difference I mean Imean that recording's pretty

(25:16):
muddy in comparison I mean it'suh you know it's it's the stuff
that you played me was likepristine you know just awesome
and it's so so clean and clear.

Tom Camuso (25:26):
Yeah basically what we're doing is like I said we
have these back and forthrecordings of each each stem and
each time he adds something soum we're using um the software
made by this company Cedar uh toline everything up uh and even
that had to sort of be sort oftinkered with and you have to do

(25:50):
it manually because of theprocess of how less recorded
stuff.
The software uses the bias lineon tape to actually straighten
out the the recordings andbecause less is tape was
recording tape to tape there'dbe 25 bias lines on everything.
Oh my god.
So that was a challenge we hadto figure out a way to do it

(26:11):
manually and then once we've weline up all of the audio where
it's you know within like acycle of being accurate to each
tip each each stem we then wentand used AI and basically the AI
goes in and uh we'll go allright this is a redundant piece
of audio I don't need it this isa new thing and it extracts

(26:36):
that so that was my questionlike how you decided how to use
the different uh sounds fromeach sort of print if you will
um that sounds that soundbasically removes the new thing
it gets complicated as you asthe the it gets more uh as the
recordings get more complex umyour your sort of options sort

(26:58):
of decrease a bit but it givesyou enough of um of some of
separation where you can reallygo in and start compressing and
EQing the bass separately fromeverything else it it does a a
pretty amazing job at separatingstuff so um so and and because
we have it incrementally it itworks really well because I'm

(27:22):
not fighting everything rightoff the bat as as I get deeper
into the stems you know itbecomes more challenging.

How long a process is this going to be before
you're able to release the boxset?
Like what's the you know whatwhat's the timeline look like
because you've been working onthis for a number of years.

Tom Camuso (27:41):
Yeah I mean it it's definitely slowed down with you
know spending years restoringthe gear and building the studio
and moving it out to LA and soit's you know it's been a a a
long process.
I think we're hoping in thenext year or so to to get it
out.
Um a lot of it is we have awhole nother team right now

(28:03):
that's working just on the songspicking the songs because
there's so much oh yeah you knowyou know his career he we have
recordings from when he was 14up until he was you know in his
uh 90s like you know two monthsbefore he passed wow so there's
so much stuff there's so muchunreleased material um so I

(28:27):
think I will probably be mixinghis stuff until I die to get
through all of it.
But uh there's gonna be a lotof different releases because
there's just so much that whenyou start putting it into
buckets there's you know tons ofunreleased stuff there's tons
of genre specific stuff or timeperiod stuff or process stuff of

(28:52):
you know throughout the yearsof how he evolved and from
overdubbing to multi-tracking.
So there's just so much stuffthat I think you know we're
really trying to figure out theorder of how to release it.

I mean that sounds like a daunting process and
yeah and you would have to domultiple box sets I'm assuming
because they would probably haveto come at a pretty good price
point considering you know howmany hours are involved and then
also how many tunes.

Tom Camuso (29:21):
I mean yeah I mean I I think you know it'll be like
you know there's definitelythere's the capital years and
then there you know right sothere's so many l different
genres and you know so yeahthat's what they're they're
figuring out and while they'redoing that I'm just picking away
at at mixing stuff.

So do you do you get a vote time?
Do you get to weigh in on whatstuff's released?

Tom Camuso (29:43):
Well I you know there's so many people on the
foundation who know the music somuch better than I do.
Um my vote really is more ofwhat is going to be uh what
what's going to be a dramaticimprovement and what's gonna mix
well and and stuff like that isis more where I weigh in where
I know this might have been ahuge hit but listen to how

(30:04):
amazing this song is isabsolutely absolutely and and
the other thing is I I hope youget to release that smoke rings
because oh yeah that man it'sgood.

Yeah that'll be that's I mean it it is it is uh
it it is I mean I can't you knowI can't tell you how good it
was it was what a joy it was tosit in front of that console and
listen to that I I mean justremarkable clarity I just can't
tell you how impressed I am thething is um the I guess the
other you know sort of the otherthing you said something to me

(30:35):
I thought was profound uh andand I'm I'm paraphrasing so
apologies if I have it a littlebit wrong but uh I mean you
basically said to me hey I'm I'mtrying to sort of give you not
so much the Tom Camuso mix butbut the Les Paul mix.
And and you know he's and yousaid something like you know uh

(30:57):
you you may think the vocalswere a little hot or something
but you know I'm I'm kind ofgiving you what was intended
versus what we might considerappropriate today.
Is that is that a fairstatement?

Tom Camuso (31:09):
Like is that kind of the for sure I mean it the the
the intention was never to uhyou know I can out mix less or
or you know I can make thisbetter.
Yeah it's really um and also itfalls into sort of what we're
doing with the studio.
I mean it it really it's a abookable as you know studio

(31:31):
anyone can come rent it um makenew records but it's really I
would say probably 80% of thetime it's education.
That's really the focus.
I love that and um uh the thewhole idea of doing this sort of
falls in line with less and youknow less his whole life anyone

(31:56):
else would have stopped a dozentimes and said look what I've
done I'm cranking out hit songsI'm having a great life yeah
just you know lay lay back andenjoy this he never did he
always was like all right didthat not doing it again I'm
gonna make something better I'mgonna push everything so this is

(32:18):
sort of in that spirit of youknow how do you bring in
students and make theminterested and you know they
come in immediately they look atthe console it looks like you
know something from World War Iand go I'm not interested and I
use you know logic or or orgarage band and I make my

(32:39):
whatever records by the timethey leave and you explain how
less invented it the processhasn't changed the same way your
Pro Tools works is how theconsole works they're so much
more engaged because they'relike oh I can make a record on
this and this would be fun to doand I completely understand how
this thing works.

(32:59):
So it's sort of the same thingwith the music it's it's we have
this technology now if Les washere he'd be doing it.
He would be like all rightlet's fix all this stuff you
know yeah so um I wanted to keepthe balances as close to the
original so that people who doknow the music aren't pulled out

(33:20):
of it going oh what is this isthis a remake you know I just
wanted to make it sound like theoriginals but without you know
25 uh generations of tape hissand you know things starting to
fall off the tape or distortbecause of the process.

So I I admire you so much for so many reasons but
one of the things I admire islike I I used to do transfers
for people.
You know I wouldn't so Iwouldn't say I was an archivist
but I used to do transfers forpeople with old reel to reels
because I had I had a couplelike you know quarter inch
machine and half inch machineand uh uh you know cassettes

(34:01):
that I do in dats and stuff likethat.
And and I just got to the pointwhere I was like you know I I
just don't want to be the jerkthat the tape breaks on.
I just don't it's this is toomuch pressure.
This is somebody's preciousmemory and I just don't want to
be the person that like ruinsit.
It's just I I'm not makingenough money to to make this

(34:23):
like worth the stress because Itake my job really seriously I I
I take art very seriously.
I think art is like soimportant and and I won't I
won't go into my whole like youknow metaphysical uh and and and
sort of moral ethical thingsthat I think art is good at
doing but I I'm just saying likeI take it so seriously that I
I'm I'm a sort of atenderhearted person.

(34:46):
So if I were to break a tape II would be mortified just
crushed.

Tom Camuso (34:50):
And so how you get in there and handle this I would
hate this job because the tapesfall apart oh my god well
that's the tape is so old thatthe splices just pull apart when
you're playing so we'reconstantly fixing them.

Well that's what I'm saying I admire you for
doing it because I am not Idon't have the fortitude I just
don't I mean uh as I as I'vetold you you know I don't I
don't drink I I I think blindand drunk are bad ideas but I
would have to day drink just toget through the day of the
stress of going oh my God I maybreak the Les Paul tape.
I mean it just I just I don'tknow how you do it.

(35:25):
I just and and I just realizedlike you know those guys are
like Iron Mountain and you knowand all those guys that do like
the heavy archivist stuff I'mlike man God bless them because
I am not Joey does not wantthis.
I just you know but it it's Imean how do you how do you for
those of us who have never hadto do something with this kind
of weight to I mean this is abig deal.

(35:47):
I mean this is this is one ofthe forefathers of modern
recording you know one of thegreatest guitar players of all
time uh super nice guy who wasvery funny I got to meet him one
time uh for you know 30 secondsuh but but you know how how do
you how do you handle like theweight of this like what what

(36:07):
kind of what kind of steps doesit take to manage all these
tapes and and keep themfunctional well luckily all the
tapes are at the library andthey're protected everything's
been digitized I actually cameon into the foundation after
that process was done so um andwe have we have other guys on

(36:29):
the foundation who are arereally like archivists where
that's what they do with bakingtapes and and doing all that
kind of stuff.

Tom Camuso (36:38):
Um so luckily a lot I mean I do handle some of the
the tapes here and there that weget and they fall apart and you
have to tape them put them backtogether but at least I always
know they've all been digitizedalready.
So well that that is a littlebit of a comfort threaded yeah
yeah it's still heartbreakingbut uh but there is a copy of

(36:58):
everything.

And and and what is the so I mean if people hear
you know hear this podcast andthey're like hey I'd love for my
my students to get a chance tocome and experience this I mean
what's what's what's the vehiclewhat's the mechanism to make
that happen.

Tom Camuso (37:12):
If you just go uh to our website which I believe is
let leshpaul dot com orlespaulrecordingstudio.com will
get you there as well um there'slinks you could there's forms
to fill out for educators youcan email me um all the
education stuff we do totallyfree and we also have the whole

(37:34):
studio outfitted with um camerasand um like I said you know
being in the room and getting toactually I mean we have a dozen
of his guitars there that welet everyone play and his
microphones and I mean being inthe studio is is a uh you know a
once-in-a-lifetime kind ofexperience but if you can't get

(37:55):
to LA the the camera system ispretty extensive we've built out
a lot of the models that showyou how you know the echo
chambers work and um you knowhow how he did the sound on
sound machine it's all we havelike you know animated models in
the computer plus um cameras inevery corner of of the studio

(38:16):
that we can you know have a livefeed that we just flip between
so if you can't get to LA it'sstill a great um experience to
just learn about less um also weoffer that free as well so you
know just reach out and it'sit's pretty simple you know and
and and the studio is not likeopen to the public you have to

(38:38):
it's appointment only right Imean you have to make the Yeah I
mean you could book the roomanyone could book book the room
uh but you would you know againyou'd go to the website you'd
reach out and just you know justsay hey I'm looking to do this
project these are the dates weconfirm the dates and you know
and same thing with theeducation it's it's super easy
you'd send me an email and sayhey we're looking to do this on

(39:02):
this day and if if I'm it's notalready booked and I'm there
then you can show up you can doit via the web however you
whatever the you know thesituation works out for you but
it's it's super easy and and uhand like I said it's all free.

Let's let's talk about I I got two more things I
want to want to go over withyou.
Uh the the first one uh is howdoes the Les Paul Foundation
fund all this amazing stuff?
Like how can you get involvedwith helping with that?

Tom Camuso (39:34):
Well we take donations for sure and we do
like you know when people rentthe room that definitely money
comes in for that and helps keepit going.
Basically the foundation isjust funded off what Les had
when he passed.
Gotcha.
So you know um you know we wedo a lot of amazing things but
like all nonprofits we sort ofalways are you know running

(39:58):
close to that line of justtrying to get to zero all the
time.

I understand I understand I you know I have a I
have a festival I put on everyyear uh called Joey Stucky Alive
Day and uh it is a um it's afree festival for our community
uh it's music you know uh we paythe artists uh and uh it's it's
the day I hold it on the daythat I what beat the brain

(40:23):
timber that was supposed to killme and uh you know it did take
my eyesight my sense of smell soI'm down two uh but but but you
know they also said that Iwasn't gonna live and then they
said if I did I wouldn't walk ortalk and Tom I'm sure you know
to your chagrin I talk a lot sobut uh but anyway but I mean we
we hold this free festival andyou know I'm not a nonprofit and

(40:45):
um and and I for there'sseveral reasons I'm not but I'm
just just this guy putting it onand you know we we try to raise
sponsors and bankroll it youknow about 60% sponsors and the
rest I just have to fund myselfbut I mean I've been in that
position where you're like youknow man we just we just need to
break even we just you know weI mean the foundation still they

(41:08):
do a lot outside of the studioas well they do um uh they do a
lot of grants and give away alot of money yeah they um we do
every year we give out a LesPaul Spirit award which goes to
like you know usually iconicguitar players and nice yeah so
that you know the the foundationis constantly involved with

(41:30):
lots of stuff um I just sort ofget a lot of the the attention
because I I've got all the coolstuff out in LA yeah well well
that's the other thing I want toshare with people you again I
mean just a remarkable person Imean you you you have a schedule
that is really intense and uhyou live you live in New York

(41:51):
for two months uh and then youlive in LA for two months.
Yep back and forth every twomonths.
And and so in New York you'reyou're running your studio uh
and and doing records and thenin and then in LA you're you're
doing you know the Les Paul umwhat we'll call the Les Paul
experience but you're doing theLes Paul studio.
So I mean that is a um that isa really complex sounding

(42:17):
schedule.
How does that I mean how doesthat work for you?
Because I mean you've got yourown studio uh you're making
records you know I mean what'swhat what does that look like
when like with your with yourcareer I mean how do you how do
you juggle all that and make itwork because it it just seems
like you know seems it seemslike it would be intensely uh um

(42:39):
difficult to schedule to seewell I mean the Les Paul thing
even though technically it'ssupposed to be six months out of
the year is constant even whenI'm in New York there's always
meetings there's always you knowpartnership deals and things
right you know we're alwaysworking on stuff and I'm lining
up you know educating educatorsand classes so it sort of is

(43:05):
just always going.

Tom Camuso (43:06):
And then and when I'm in LA forget about it it's
always crazy it's always busyand then when I get back to New
York um I'm always busy doing ontop of the the you know the the
the Les Paul stuff as well umeveryone knows I'm here for two
months so it's usually a busytwo months when I'm home.

Get Tom while he's home.

Tom Camuso (43:30):
Yeah.
Yeah so it it it it has beenvery busy but you know in the
music business we can't complainwhen we're busy.

So well no I mean it's uh my my uh mantra at my
studio is uh twofold uh Joey isa drama free zone so you gotta
be happy or you can't come in uhand uh and if if if being happy
and joyful while you're makingrecords is not what you want to
do this ain't the place for youuh but but the other place the
other thing is you know we we'reeven when it's a bad day it's A

(44:00):
good day because we're in themusic business and that's what
we want to do.
Um, and and so I mean, you Imean, do you see yourself
primarily as an engineer?
Do you see yourself as a aproducer at all?
Or I mean what what role do yougive yourself?
Like what title do you think ofyourself when you when you
think of your career?

Tom Camuso (44:16):
I mean, what do you think?
I mean, I've always calledmyself an engineer because
that's just the one thing thateveryone uh we gives me credit
for on records.
Right.
Um, but I think every engineernow is a little bit of a
producer.
You're always, you know, it'snot like the old days where
there is a producer, anengineer, an assistant, you

(44:36):
know, the artist.
It's usually the artist is theproducer, the engineer is the
producer.
Right.
You know, everyone's sort ofgot a lot of input into things.
Um and you know, with the LesPaul thing, it's become a whole,
you know, I've become a uh aprofessor.
So I, you know, I do collegecourses on recording, and you

(45:01):
know, so it it's it's just funnyhow you just wake up every day
and show up, and you know, oneday you look and go, oh my god,
look at all this crazy stuffwe're doing.
Um, none of which was in in theplan.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I know I I totally get that.
I mean, you end up I I got inthe studio business because uh I
wanted to be an artist, is thereason I picked up the guitar
and all that kind of stuff.
But I was like, I'm blind and Ican't drive myself.
So how can I bring people to mewithout it seeming weird?
Oh, I know, I'll have a studio.
And uh because they got to cometo that anyway.
Um so so it made sense.

(45:39):
And then, you know, but thenwhat happens is, and and I think
you'll appreciate this becauseyou uh at one time were trying
to be a rock star.
Um, I mean, what happens is youyou you start working for other
people, which is awesome, butthen you're like, oh man, I
haven't put out a song of my ownfor like two years now.
What am I what am I doing?
You know, I gotta I gotta getback to that.
Do you still write songs?
Do you still do anything likethat?

Tom Camuso (46:00):
I spend so much time in the studio.
When I go home, I want to hearsilence.
Yeah.

Well, you are you my experience is a different.
That's it's I'm so interestedby you saying that because um I
go to the studio and work allday on music and then come home
and listen to more music.
And I wonder, I think it'sbecause I think it's because I'm
not getting any visual inputand my brain really craves

(46:29):
content.
Yeah.
Um, my mind is busy, and uh, Idon't actually like sleeping.
Like I I hate it because I waslike, oh my god, I I could be
doing something else.
And that's the brain tumorsurvivor mentality, I think.
Like, you know, I want to likegrab life by the neck and just
like get everything I can out ofit all the time.
And uh I so I I'm a little bitdifferent in that way.

(46:49):
I don't like to say I don'treally I don't want I don't want
to relax.

Tom Camuso (46:53):
I'll tell you what, I tell a story of you coming to
the studio almost to every classnow because I was so blown
away.
There, there you you know, youcame in and you were just sort
of you know soaking it all in,and and I stepped out of the
room for a minute, and when Icame back in, you said, What are
these switches on the side ofthe patch bay for?

(47:16):
And they literally are thereare eight switches on the on the
right side of the patch baythat are the only eight switches
we have no idea what they werefor.

Of course I would have to ask that question.

Tom Camuso (47:28):
They go to a loom that's cut at the bottom, they
make no sense of why they'rethere.
I have a couple ideas of what Ithought they might be for, but
there's really no way to confirmit.
And I was so blown away that Ileft you in a pretty large room
with probably a hundred thousandknobs, and within a minute you

(47:49):
found the eight knobs that don'tmake sense in the room.
So that that well, that wasgonna be my claim to fame now.
That's sort of everyone whocomes in asks about them, but
it's really easy when you couldlook at it and go, Yeah, well,
that's weird.
Why are there eight knobs onthe side of the patch bay?
Yeah.
But I was just blown away thatyou immediately were like, what

(48:11):
the hell are these?
What is this though?

Well, I will say I do one thing I do understand
that some of the kids todaydon't is signal flow.
So when you gotta, you know,that's like, you know, you have
to think about that.
That's that's funny.
I I've that's a that's a coolstory.
I I I wanted to sort of justreally circle back to briefly
something that you said earlier.
And that was that you when youwere trying to be a rock star,

(48:35):
and we've all done that.
Um, I realize now I'm not GeneSimmons or, you know, um, you
know, although I've met him, andand interestingly, um uh Gene's
an interesting person.
And um I will leave it there.
But what I will say is that hehe was very gracious to me and
said to me, He's like, Hey,you're a good singer.

(48:56):
And uh and I said, Oh, thanks.
He's like, I mean it.
I said, I I know you do, I takeyou at your word.
Um, but uh he said, Well, Iwant you to sing this high note.
I said, I can't, Gene.
I'm getting over a cold and I'mnot gonna hit that.
I just that's not, I know myvoice, and I'm I'm not, it ain't
happening today.
And he I have a picture of GeneSimmons with his hands around
my throat saying, Sing the note.
And he was like trying to chokeout the cold or something.

(49:21):
I don't know.
But he uh he didn't, he wasvery kind to me and and engaged,
but he didn't bother to learnmy wife's name.
Uh, but she has a very heavysouthern accent, so he just
started calling her Georgia.
Yeah, and so everybody elsethought her name was Georgia.
So that so anyway, my pointthough is like I'm not I'm not

(49:41):
the big rock star like GeneSimmons or whoever picked your
favorite rock star.

Tom Camuso (49:44):
Uh but but I mean we all growing up in New York in
the 70s, you know, Gene Simmonsis our Paul McCartney.

Absolutely.
Yeah, I mean, he has to be.
Um, and and and and uh I willsay, uh my first um when I went
to college the first time, my Ihad I was going for for two
degrees, and one was music andone was marketing, basically.
And and Gene Simmons is youknow a brilliant marketer.
I mean, really smart uh when itcomes to understanding his

(50:14):
brand and all this stuff.

Tom Camuso (50:15):
But anyway, you know what they say if you look in
the mirror and say Gene Simmonsthree times, all the money in
your wallet disappears.

Oh my god, I believe that.
That is listen, cautionarytale.
Um I'm gonna I'm gonna rememberthat.
Uh you've been full of wisdomtoday, Tom.
I appreciate it.
So, so but I mean, what youknow, you said uh that when you
you went out to LA, got a recorddeal, said you're gonna come
back home to New York, you know,work in a studio, get another

(50:45):
record deal, and head back toLA.
Um what is it?
I mean, because New York to meis uh a thriving you know mecca
of music.
Uh and LA is is as well, but Imean what what what is it about
LA that you wanted to get backto back then?
Like what what what what do youthink the significance of LA

(51:06):
is?
And do you think that you needto be in both places?
I mean, is that you know wellback then I think it was the
weather.

Tom Camuso (51:15):
And you know, when you're you know teenager and you
get a record deal, you youknow, the the myth is you just
move to LA.
I don't even know why, you justdo it.
Yeah.
Um but what I found now is inNew York, there definitely is, I
think, a bigger music scene asfar as musicians.

(51:37):
There's more bands.
Like I can go out and see fiveamazing bands that and just by
walking around and popping intoclubs.
Right.
So uh where I haven't foundthat in LA as much, but LA has
way more of a music business.
Like the the studio scene in LAis so much bigger and and more

(52:02):
thriving than New York.
New York is, you know, we'vegotten rid of all of our old
studios, really, outside of likewhat Berkeley's doing over at
Power Station.
Power Station, yeah.
You know, Electric Lady, it'ssort of like a you know, a
tourist attraction studio atthis point.
Um, the only really studio Ican think of that in New York

(52:24):
that's sort of OG is Sear Soundis still there.
Um it's an amazing studiothat's still going.
Um but LA, tons and tons ofstudios with incredible history
and just preserved and still,you know, great rooms making
great records, and people areare renting the rooms and making

(52:45):
records there.
Where in New York it's just alot of studios like me.
Like I have a you know an 80sseries NiV and a warehouse.
I've been there for 25 years.
I've built the warehouse aroundthe console, and just you keep
treating it until it soundsgreat.
Where LA, every room has beenthere since the 60s.

(53:07):
A guy in a lab coat designedit, it's mathematically perfect.
Gotcha.
It's got the original echochambers, like history, and
there's also a community aroundthe studio scene there.
Um, there's tons of partieswhere every studio owner is
there, they're all hanging out,everyone's throwing everyone

(53:29):
work, it's a community.
I love that.
Yeah, New York, not so much.
It's you're with me or you'reagainst me.
Everyone's a competitor, we'reall fighting for the for the few
you know records that aregetting made in New York.
So it's just a different vibe,and that's really why everyone
from the foundation is from NewYork.
Huh.
And you know, Les was you knowfrom New Jersey.

(53:53):
So he started out in Hollywood,though.
So when it came time to dothis, it just made more sense to
do it out there.
There's more of um uh a studioculture, there's more of um
there's more education becauseof the film business.
There's a lot of schools thatyou know cross over into the

(54:14):
audio end of stuff.
So that's really, you know, andwe you know, we're at United,
which is one of the mosthistoric studios in LA.
Yeah.
So um Yeah, it was it wasreally neat to walk to those
doors and and yeah, the historylined up really well.
Yeah, yeah.
Putnam Chambers are there.
Uh Bill Putnam and Les werelike best friends, both of them,

(54:36):
you know, right at theforefront, those two guys and
Tom Dowd, like they're all theMount Rushmore of reporting.
So it just made sense.
So that's really why we endedup out there.

Yeah, I was just kind of curious about it because
uh, you know, I I don't knowwhy.
I don't know if it's yeah, oneof the one of the drawbacks to
being blind is um I can't readliner notes.
And um, and so uh, you know,I'm unaware sometimes of where
the studio was, you know, wherethe record was made or yeah,
yeah, who was the engineer.
Sometimes, you know, sometimesI find out.
Um, but um, but I was yeah, Iwas just interested in that.

(55:10):
And I I'm so jealous that of ofyour nieve, um, because that's
definitely one of my favorite uhfavorite sounds.
Um with your studio, uh, we'llwe'll we'll kind of switch gears
and close on this.
Um, I mean, you know, you'remaking records all the time.
I know you're doing one for forBlondie right now and uh mixing
that.
And I mean, what uh what kindof what kind of stuff are you

(55:33):
working on in in New York?
We've talked about all thestuff you're doing in LA, but
what's what's going on in NewYork with you?

Tom Camuso (55:38):
Uh I do a lot of the blondie stuff.
I actually didn't I for most ofthe blondie stuff I'm tracking.
I do a lot of the therecording, like a lot of vocals
with Debbie, Chris, and thatstuff.
Um their process of recordingis they they move around a lot.
They've got a lot of differentguys producing and mixing, and

(55:59):
it's sort of uh, you know, uh uha moving kind of uh project all
the time.
But um but I do a lot, youknow, there's just in New York,
it's I've been here for so long,there's just a lot of um local
artists that I've worked with abunch.
Um uh I do it it's I do I meanI used to do a lot of TV work,

(56:25):
which now has become you knowtelephone advertising more so
than television.
Gotcha.
So it's weird.
New York is it's sort of this,you know, it's always new stuff
coming in and where you know LAis always less fall.
So New York now I I try to I'mI'm I'm trying to pick some

(56:47):
different stuff just to to do,you know, just to keep my chops
up and do different things.
I just did a a great jazzrecord with a a local uh jazz
singer.
Um so you know, and over here.

I was gonna ask you if that if if New York was
still a jazz mecca or not.

Tom Camuso (57:04):
Yeah, I mean, there's always that stuff is
always big here, you know, alldifferent sort of offshoots of
jazz.
Like I've done a lot of recordswith um Modesky, Martin, and
Wood.

Oh, one of my favorites.

Tom Camuso (57:16):
Yeah, and those guys, you know, every record is
a little different.

Oh, those guys are sick musicians, man.
Wow.

Tom Camuso (57:21):
Yeah, and they bring in a lot of different people.
So there's definitely a lot ofthat kind of you know, downtown
New York, you know, you know,out jazz stuff uh going on all
the time, so which is fun.

Um do you have a preference or or a genre that
you prefer making records uh in,or you just like it all?

Tom Camuso (57:46):
I mean, I like it all.
I mean, I've always sort ofdone like people have sort of
come to me to do the rock recordstuff.
Right.
Um I think because you know,when I started out learning, I
was all those years with Lenny.
Um, I've done a lot of rockrecords, you know, with you
know, Zeppelin kind of drumsounds and and all that kind of

(58:09):
stuff.
So and my studio in Brooklyn issort of a, you know, it's got
an old knee, we've got emtplates and compressors and you
know, all the stuff that youwould find in a a studio that's
making rock records and coolhipster jazz records.

Do you I mean, do you I mean the thing for me, and
and I live in a I live inMacon, Georgia.
So I'm I'm you know, home ofOtis Redding and Little Richard
and Almond Brothers were herefor a while.
And yeah, and and you know, andthat and and and the sad thing
about this is, and I I don'tmean this in any way
disrespectful, but uh, and I'mthe official music ambassador of

(58:50):
my hometown.
So um, but but I mean, youknow, we're we're still talking
about records that were made 70years ago.
Uh and what we're not talkingabout is records that were made
this year.
And uh the infrastructure hereis really non-existent.
I mean, you know, the thethere's just not an
infrastructure for the music,which is a shame because I can

(59:12):
tell you there's some incredibleplayers in this, in this town.
I mean, really incredible.
And you know, we're an hoursouth of Atlanta.
Um, but what what do you whatdo you I always like to dig just
a little into the musicbusiness side of things?
Um, and I I count on, I'mreally into education, so the
podcast usually I'm trying to,you know, share some knowledge

(59:33):
that maybe somebody didn't havebefore.
I mean, what what is thestruggle like when you're in New
York?
I mean, with with overhead andyou've got all this vintage
gear, like, you know, here inMacon, I can't, I can't afford
to have that vintage gearbecause I ain't nobody here to
service it.
I mean, it's like, you know,that's that's kind of one of the
reasons I don't invest in likethe stuff that I want to.

(59:54):
Um, because you know, I'd loveto have some some some classic,
like, you know, real LA 2As fromback in the day, but you know,
who's gonna who's gonna comedown and and and service it?
So what what is what is it likefor you with with the classic
NiV console and stuff like that?
I mean, is that is that aproblem?
Or being in New York, do youhave easy access to text and you

(01:00:15):
know what I think?

Tom Camuso (01:00:17):
I think if you're in New York or LA or even
Nashville at this point, I thinkyou kind of are lucky in the
sense you can get stuff fixed.
Um, that being said, it costs afortune.
Um it does.
Yeah, and and I I have to sayuh the my Neve console has been
pretty bulletproof.

(01:00:38):
I mean, you know, outside ofthe Neve knob stuff where you
know, we just actually did awhole ultrasonic cleaning on
everything.
But uh outside of, you know, ifyou keep it maintained, there
they're workhorses.
So I've been lucky in thatsense.
But you know, things break andit's it's constant upkeep.
But I've been my studio in inGreenpoint I've been at for

(01:01:03):
almost 25 years now.
So luckily all the gear hasbeen paid for long ago.
Gotcha.
I'm locked into a lease thatI've had for a while, so I've
been kind of lucky with keepingoverhead kind of down, but it's
still tough.
I mean, um, you know, there'sdefinitely months where you you

(01:01:23):
don't make the earbells, youknow, and then there's months
where you do great.
So yeah.
You know, that's the recordingbusiness.

Joey Stuckey (01:01:31):
It is, and that's the thing, that's the thing that
I've sort of you know, I that Isort of struggle with.
Like, you know, like one of thethings I think about is like,
okay, if I if I was to get uh anLA2A or something, or um, you
know, even even if it's in goodshape and I get it repaired,
like, you know, what it soundslike at 10 a.m.
may not be what it sounds likeat 4 p.m.
Yeah, always print it.

When it sounds good, print it.

Yeah, yeah.
And that's that's what that's Ialways think about stuff like
that.
I I but I am an analog whore.
I mean, that's you know, I I ambecause I like the vibe is is
is a big part of it.
But the other big part isaccessibility for me, because
yeah, the third knob from theleft always does the same thing.

(01:02:13):
And it it doesn't matter whatscreen I'm on, or you know, I
and so you know it for me, it'salso like a I know this, I know
once I know the piece ofequipment, I know it.
So it's you know, it's it's ait's a you know it's sort of a
twofold thing for me.
But I really do feel like theclassics gear is really
important to um to to creatingrecords that have character.

(01:02:35):
Um it sounds like you feel thesame way because you've got you
got that classic NEVE.

Yeah, and nothing sounds like recording through
it.

So no, I I mean it's it's I mean it's it's
awesome.
I mean, I love it.
I mean it's it's those, youknow, that's that's what I would
like to uh have.
I I just uh just made a apurchase of the SSL uh console.
I'm I'm upgrading my studioconsole.
And I just got the I got theSSL Origin Evo, which is the
newest thing from SSL, and it'syou know it's all analog and it

(01:03:06):
costs the price of a smallhouse.
Um but um but it it's reallyaccessible for me.
I mean, you know, uh all thebuttons are latching, so you can
tell what state the channel'sin with you know with the knobs,
and it's it's it's great.
I needed some, I had to getsomething new, but I I just you
know it's it's a constantstruggle to find you know the
right the right gear to make theright records.
I mean, ultimately it's aboutthe ears of your engineer,

(01:03:27):
really.

But yeah, and you know, like I said, you you know,
it's like you know, guys usedto make great records on NS10s.
Oh, I know, I have a pair.
I don't know how anyone doesit, but it can be done.
You know, you you could learnanything.
That's exactly right.

You know, just learn your gear and know your
gear.
I mean, the NS10s are like ifthe base is thumping, you've
gone too far.

Yeah.
Everyone always says if itsounds good in the NS10s, then
you know you got it.

Yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, I I when I hadthose speakers as a kid, you
know, in in I was I mean, theywere they were all I had, and
they weren't expensive, 400bucks, something like that.
I don't know.
Um, and I got the classic onesthat don't make any more, and
I've kept them out of nostalgia,but I I I can't mix a record on
that.
I know they're horrible.
I can't.

(01:04:14):
I mean, there are people thatdo.
I'm just like, wow.

I mean, I mean, I mix on, I can mix on I I've had
a pair of the Genelec, what arethey, the 1031A?
Yeah, that have the crazymid-range bump.
But I've mixed on them so long,I my ears I know where what
that mid-range bump is, and Ijust compensate, you know?
Yeah, that's that's the secret.
Just know your gear.

(01:04:38):
Uh yeah, now we use the uh atthe studio in LA, we're using
the ATCs.

I know, and I just unbelievable.
Well, and let me just tell you,when we left, I said to my
wife, I was like, Oh, I wish Ihad not heard those.
Yeah.
Because now I want some.

Yeah, because it's you hear everything, it there's
no guessing.
Oh my God.
It's your dog.
You got it.
You listen and you go, I I knowit's gonna sound like this
everywhere.
I mean, it's ridiculous.
So good.

And and I no, I I'm using GitLX as well.
And uh and you know, they'rethey're pretty they're pretty
flat.
I don't really have to do.
I mean, I I came up in the youknow, in the 90s, and you know,
I I don't really have to do thecar test anymore.
And you know, not that theclients want to pay for that
anyway, but you know, it's likeI don't have to do that anymore
because I can pretty much tellme now we do the uh airpod test.

(01:05:31):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Or for me, because I am reallyparanoid about my ears because I
cannot lose one more thing.
Like I've got a metal hip, I'vegot a metal shoulder, I can't
see, I can't smell, I don't makeadrenaline.
Like, I cannot have any otherissues.
So, so with my ears, like I'mscared to put stuff in my ear.
I know it's stupid, I know it'snot rational, but I I will not

(01:05:54):
put a pod in my ear.
I just won't.
And it it it's I do over theOver the ear phones.
That's it.

Like I'm not sticking anything in my ear.
But uh I mix sometimes I I'llpop on the open back uh ones.
Well what what phones do youuse, Tom?
What are you what are youdoing?
I'm using these these ones.
Um they're called Hi-Fi Man isthe company.
And I actually just bought an II've been using these the one
model they have, I think it'scalled the Sendari or something.

(01:06:25):
Yeah.
It's like the lowest model.
And I just bought a new pairthe other day because mine are
just basically disintegrating onmy head.
And I went, there's a placehere in Manhattan called Studio
46, and all they have ishigh-end headphones.
And you make an appointment,you go in with the music you
want to hear, and they'll giveyou like five thousand dollar

(01:06:48):
headphones to listen to.
Wow.
And I went through their wholebecause I the ones I've been
using are at the bottom end oftheir their uh their list of uh
there's another models, right?
And I listened to every onethey make, and I thought they
all sounded exactly the same.
Some of them were just a littlelouder.
So they're like $179, and theysound, I think they sound great.

(01:07:10):
That's awesome.
Oh, it's it's back to what wesaid, like know your gear.

I'm used to them.
So what is your overriding?
Like, if you if you had to givea piece of advice, uh you know,
uh, besides you're crazy to getthe music business, but if you
had to give a if you had to givea a piece of advice to someone
who's you know in school or oror having some kind of learning
opportunity, like what what doyou think the biggest thing in

(01:07:36):
our industry right now is thatyou need to be aware of and and
be up on?

Um I mean there's so much coming at everyone so
fast, it's tough.
Yeah.
Um I always tell everyone,like, especially like I try to
always keep up with all of thethe new stuff with all the DAWs
because you know that'severyone's using the you know,
logic or most likely Pro Tools.

(01:08:03):
I mean, I always tell people ifyou're gonna pick one, if
you're just starting, they allbasically do the same.
But Pro Tools is the languagemost commonly spoke.
Right.
So um definitely you'll getmore bang for your buck if
that's the language you speak.
Um and I always try to keep upwith all of the new bells and
whistles because you know, likeI used to spend forever fixing

(01:08:28):
vocals, and I would get tons ofpeople who would only come to me
to fix, you know, they'd justcome always do their vocals with
me because they're like, oh,whatever you do, it always
sounds great.
And I would spend hours andhours, you know, syllable by
syllable, pre-gaining things, sothat again, so when I run them
through uh an old tubecompressor, the compressor does

(01:08:50):
nothing to do but add vibe.
Like I I get everything rightand fix everything and and you
know spend a ton of time, butnow you know, you can use like
these ARA, you know, dyne assistuh uh plugins that do
everything I was doing in 10seconds.

(01:09:12):
Wow.
I'm not even familiar.
I'm not familiar with those.
I'm yeah, it's like a new, youknow, it's one of these new uh
plugins that you know there'sthe ARA ones, they sort of work
within the tract, or so it'slike another level of uh of of
uh you know logic going on.
Gotcha.
But but it balances out thevocal immediately.

(01:09:34):
So one hand I was like, well,you know, this is saving me, you
know, weeks of my life doingbut at the same time I'm no
longer special because anyonecould do it immediately now.
Right so I always try to keepup with that stuff because you
know, you don't ever want to bethe guy that someone goes to and

(01:09:56):
they say, you know, he didthis, it sounds good, but it
took them all day to do it.
Where I go to this other guyand he can do it in three
minutes.
You know, that kind of stuff Ialways try to, you know, keep up
with, even the stuff that like,you know, like when you get
into like the uh uh the warptime stuff and you know, all the
just the crazy stuff that thatpeople are using for different

(01:10:21):
things.
And you know, whenever I'mseeing someone else work, I'm
always trying to go, oh, theydid that.
I didn't think of doing it thatway, or or that's way quicker
than the way I do it, or theymade a MIDI map of this, or you
know, just always know the toolsthat are in your toolbox
because you know, nowadayseveryone has the same toolbox,

(01:10:43):
so you kind of want to know howthey all work and be able to
know what tool to grab thequickest and and keep the
sessions moving.

How do you find time to stay up on all that?
Because that's that's I mean,that's the trick.

Yeah, that's tough.
Um I'm just always, you know,when I'm in in the studio, I'll
you know, know there's if Iknow, oh, they've implemented
like like now the the new ProTools has all these macros built
into it, which I haven't gotteninto, but I know that that is a
gonna be a huge time saver.

(01:11:16):
And you know, there's some youknow 17-year-old kid right now
who's programmed 5,000 macrosand he can do everything I do
with two key swipes.
So it's on my to-do list.
So, like, you know, when I havethings to do, I'll go, you know
what, I'm not in a crazy rush.
I'll do this and you know,probably spend five times as

(01:11:40):
much time trying to figure outthis quicker way to do it.
But once I I I get it, I'llI'll be able to save time.
So I mean, a lot some time forthat stuff.

You are you are special um as an engineer uh
because of well, one thing isyou're an excellent technical
communicator.
And um, you know, you youreally you are you're a great
teacher, and I and and and you Ican tell that.
And uh but but how do you withso I'm gonna just ask you to

(01:12:11):
unpack this one last thing.
Like when you talk about, okay,I gotta stay up on the
technology, and the trade is Ican do this faster, but I'm no
longer special, and yet beingspecial in some way has to be
sort of mission critical to toyou getting a gig, right?
So, so how do you what's what'syour balancing act there?

(01:12:31):
Because I mean, honestly, likeI believe the fact that I can't
see makes me someone you want towork with because all I'm doing
is listening to your record.
I mean you and nothing else.
Yeah, I mean, well, I mean,this is this is it.
I mean, and that's what that'swhy I'm saying I can't lose it.
You know, so I protect myhearing quite vigorously.
Um, so I'm just saying, like,you know, there's that's I mean,

(01:12:53):
I think like, but you know,it's interesting because a lot
of people are like, oh, how canyou be in the music business?
You can't see, you can't seemeters, you can't see this,
that, and the other.
Uh, you know, and and uh that'snot untrue.
Um, but the fact is, I mean,you know, at the end of the day,
uh you consume music with yourear and those work.
So, so uh I think the theprimary tool is in place.

(01:13:13):
But what I mean, what how doyou stay relevant and like,
okay, you want to come work withme because, but also, you know,
stay on top of all thetechnology that in some ways is
is erasing uniqueness.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if it's so much of
trying to be special.
I just think it's you know, ifyou always try to do a good job,
that always, you know, thatalways comes through.
Work at um you know, people,I've never advertised my studio.
It's basically a privatestudio.
I've never, you know, I don'tdo any of the the you know,

(01:13:47):
before the Les Paul stuff, Iwasn't doing any podcasts or any
interviews or anything.
Right.
I survived on the work, youknow.
If you show up and you're youknow, you're passionate about
what you're doing and you do agood job, you know, people know
they, you know, they theyrecognize it.
And you know, that's why I youknow I've always had like you

(01:14:11):
know, I've done Blondie now forseven years or so, and I was
with Lenny for you know seven oreight years, and I did five
years with David Lee Roth.
And oh wow, I did a bunch ofyears with Dougie Fresh and a
couple years with Modesky Martinand Wood.
So there's always you know,sort of uh someone like an

(01:14:35):
anchor of someone who's workingand doing a lot of work, and
they would in, you know, and ifyou work hard, then they just
go, All right, I want this guyaround.
And then, you know, eventuallyyou do enough records with
someone where you go, all right,you know, I think I've explored
everything there is to explorehere.
It's time to do somethingdifferent, and you know, and

(01:14:56):
then you move on.
But um, and that's how it'salways been.
I've never, you know, hadanyone fire me or anything.
I just you know, right.
You do five records withsomeone, and then you go, all
right, I'm gonna do this record,and you get busy with some
something else, and then there'ssomewhere else, you know, it
just sort of naturally happens.

Yeah.

Um but and you know, you just always want to keep
things interesting and changeit, change it up a bit.
But I mean, I think at the endof the day, just do the best you
can.
And you know, my thirst forlearning everything is more for
just the the ability to, youknow, to keep the sessions
moving, because at the end ofthe day, on top of doing a great

(01:15:42):
job, you kind of, you know,people don't want to know the
sessions going on.
Right.
You just want to keep itmoving, keep them focused on
whatever they're got in theirhead, and and just stay out of
the way and get it recorded withthe least amount of waiting
around.
So, you know, that's reallywhere the thirst for learning

(01:16:04):
the new stuff comes from, isbecause you don't ever want to
be doing the gimme a minute orstanding there and you go, hold
on, hold on, one sec.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, like I've got my stream deck now with all
my stuff ready to go.
So it's like, you know, newplaylist, bam, I hit one button
and it's done.

I just found out about Stream Deck uh like two
weeks ago.
Yeah, they're there, it'sgreat, you know.
And and and I'm I'm I'm doingit in my in my upgrade.
I I agree with you.
I I'm I I I think that the umyou're right.
I mean, the thirst forknowledge and the and the the
the drive to always be your bestis a powerful tool.

(01:16:44):
Um, and if it's part of justyour natural spirit, like just
how your mind and works, I mean,that's people know when you're
a genuine, you know, uh artist,uh, for lack of a better word.
Because I mean, I think asengineers, I mean, we're artists
and technicians all at the sametime.
And there's there's two verydifferent things that happen.
Like what you're talking aboutis like, you know, you you use

(01:17:05):
this word several times, and Ilike it because I do too.
It's it's vibe.
I mean, that's that's art.
That's that's something that'sharder to define than setting
attack speed to threshold toratio.
I mean, that's you know that'syou know, there's there's the
science too, but there's there'sthe art side.
But I think that's really cool.
And I'm with you.
I mean, we keep we keep itlight, we keep it, we keep it

(01:17:25):
fun, uh we keep it moving.
And that's why I have a sightedassistant uh who is a young, a
younger person who grew up witha computer in his hand and you
know, has really good eyes uhand can and can see, like, you
know, he can do things that takeme a few seconds, like
instantly, like, hey, uh, youknow, second beat of chorus two,

(01:17:48):
uh, the bass, guitar, and thekick drum are off each other,
line those transient markers up.
He can just go boom, because hecan just look at it and do it.
Whereas I have to listen, drag,listen, drag, listen, drag.
So, yeah, so so I think that'strue.
Well, I I just I think it'sjust fantastic that you've done
so many interesting things.
And as I say, uh I don't knowif you're aware of this or not.

(01:18:09):
I'll I'll leave you with thiscompliment.
Um, you are a a born teacher,and and there are people that
are called to it that are goodat it, and there are people that
aren't.
And you are so good at comingwhen when my visit with you at
Les Paul, I mean, just the wayyou explained everything and the
way that that you you talkedand and shared things uh was

(01:18:31):
really a treat.
And I am thrilled to be workingwith you uh this year at the
studio coming up in a fewmonths.
Um it's we're we're gonna we'llwe promise to have tons of bad
jokes and some good music.

Well, I'm looking forward to it.

So you have been so generous with your time, my
friend.
I appreciate you so much.
Um there's there's a wonderfulwebsite with your name on it
that people can visit um if theywant to, um, if I remember
correctly.
And uh and so uh, you know, andLes Paul as well, Les
Paulrecordingstudio.com.
That's right, absolutely.
So there's there's tons ofstuff, and and uh I uh I'm just

(01:19:05):
so glad to meet another Niaventhusiast.
Uh you know, why would you notlove it?
Um and uh I just I appreciateyour time so much today, my
friend.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, well, thanks for havingme.

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Episode 2: Tom Camuso on Les Paul, Analog Recording, Studio Culture, and the Future of Engineering

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