Episode 3: Dusty Wakeman on Mojave Audio, Mad Dog Studios, Capitol Records, and Capturing Great Sound

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joey Stuckey (00:00):
Welcome to the Stuck on Sound Podcast.
And once again, friends, we havesuch a cool lineup for you
today.
A man that I have alwaysrespected and have been
privileged to call friend.
And absolutely is one of myfavorite people of all time,
Dusty Wakeman.
And he is joining us in hisjammies today.

(00:23):
As am I.

SPEAKER_02 (00:24):
This was audio only.
It is.

That's right.
Welcome, Dusty.
I appreciate your time, myfriend.

SPEAKER_02 (00:29):
Thank you, Joey.
Thanks for inviting me.
It's a pleasure to always apleasure to talk to you.
And to play with play music withyou.

Absolutely.
Listen, that is that isthrilling.
And for those that don't know,uh this is really exciting to
me.
Um, Dusty has been, when wefirst met, uh, it was one of
those really cool things whereyou meet someone and you go, oh,
this person's instantly a friendof mine, and I'm gonna be, you
know, interacting with them forthe rest of my life.
And um, and and so um, for thoseof you who have not had this

(00:59):
experience, uh, if you are blindand you want to make it through
an airport with a guitar, thatis absolute sheer hell.
And it's just it just is aterrible experience, I'm telling
you.
And so uh I I uh have known, Iknew Dusty um was a fine bass
player and a fine musician and agreat producer and all these

(01:22):
wonderful things.
And um, you know, he we we shareso many you know common you know
thoughts and and sort of havethis simpatico relationship.
And so um, but I uh Dusty and Iplayed a gig one time uh during
Grammy Week.
Uh I think we played two orthree songs at sort of a jam
session at a local venue, andthat was a thrill and a half.

(01:45):
And then I had this bright ideaum that uh I was like, you know,
I'm gonna see if I can getsomeone to pity me and let me
borrow a guitar while I'm in LAduring Grammy week so I don't
have to bring mine because Ihonestly hate LAX with a
passion.
I mean, I rarely say anythinghateful about anyone, but when

(02:08):
it comes to LAX, I mean I don'tdrink because blind and drunk
are bad ideas, but I I want tostart day drinking when I have
to go through LEX.

SPEAKER_01 (02:15):
I feel you, man.
I'll do anything to avoid LAXwith a guitar.

Yeah, I'm glad you feel the same way.
So I called Dusty and said, heyDusty, how would you how much do
you love me?
And I was like, Do you uh howwould you would you be
interested in me borrowing aguitar if you've got one?
And uh and he let me use his1967 telecaster, which was a
great thrill and a great honor.
And and he and then I said,Well, gosh, Dusty, you know,
you're you're since I'm sinceI'm begging, um, you you want to

(02:44):
play bass at this showcase I'mdoing?
And he he's very nicely said,Absolutely, let's do that.
And I said, Well, you know, nowthat we've got a bass player, we
should probably have a drummer.
And I said, Can you arrange thatas well?
So he did.
And when I got to meet DavidRaven.
So now we've done we've done ourshowcase tune.

(03:04):
It was so much fun thateverybody said, you know, we
should do this again.
And you don't say stuff likethat to me uh and think I'm not
think I think I'm not gonna holdyou to it.

SPEAKER_02 (03:15):
So see, we're Hollywood people.
We don't think people ever willfollow through.
Oh, yeah.
That's credit to you.

So you you you have you miscalculated there.
So now Dusty has been uh connedinto uh uh doing a 45-minute set
at the whiskey uh in 26 here,and then uh we're doing a couple
recording sessions, and I'm notpaying him near what he's worth,
but um uh you know I think he'smainly doing it because he knows

(03:42):
that the blind have it in withGod.
We're we're real tight.

SPEAKER_01 (03:44):
That's right.
I just want the brownie points.
I want the karma.

Well, you you know, and I uh you you obviously
got good karma because I've metyour wife and she's fantastic.
So thank you.
I agree.
You did well.
Let me I'll tell you the thingthat I love about uh the
podcast, and you know, this is alittle bit uh of an obvious
start, but um I always believeOrange and stories are so
important, and uh I want to hearuh you've told me this a little

(04:12):
bit, uh, you know, just hangingout, but I want people to hear
your story uh of of coming fromTexas, uh, you know, and and and
coming into LA and and and thatwhole journey that got you
there, and then we'll we'll kindof talk more.
But uh you you you know you werein a band and and uh were trying
to make it basically is myrecollection.

SPEAKER_02 (04:34):
Absolutely.
So I you know, just to kind ofstart at the beginning, I grew
up in Houston, Texas, with a uha four-year stint in Fort Worth
around the time the Beatles cameout, and then back to Houston
for high school.
And I was in a really good bandin high school with some really
talented guys.
Me and the two guitar playersall had the same guitar teacher,

(04:55):
a man named Dale Mullins, and hehad uh a studio uh, you know,
back then it was a professionalfour-track studio.
He had a Scully four-track andhad uh some uh clips monitors
and uh Macintosh power amps.
And you know, we would that'swhere we would have our lessons,
and I just fell in love with thegear, you know.

(05:17):
So I spent as much time learninglike what's this, what's this,
what's this, as I did doing mybass lessons.
So and then I was always the guyin the band that you know wanted
to record the band and would setup the PA.
And you know, I I I loved gearat an early age.
So uh after high school, wentoff to Austin to college, and

(05:40):
that was that was when aroundthe time Willie w came there and
the cosmic cowboy thing washappening, and played in bands.
And I got recruited by this bandthat had been together a long
time called the Barons.
They played in this this dancehall scene, and it's the same
scene that like VFW Halls andAmerican Legion Halls out in the
country, and this is the samescene that that BJ Thomas came

(06:04):
out of and Roy Head, and it'sjust a great musical tradition.
So we played dance halls on theweekends, but they owned a
studio in a little town calledRosenberg.
It had a couple of labels, andthey were like, hey, you want to
engineer?
Here's the keys.
So my very first session as anengineer was a mariachi trio
that the lead figure had foundin a Mexican beer joint next

(06:25):
door, and uh, which was kind offunny because they didn't speak
English and I didn't speak anySpanish then.
I speak a little bit now.
And uh I couldn't I couldn'tconvey to them how to overdub.
Like when we would try tooverdub, they would be like a
bar behind.
They couldn't get in sync.
So it's like, okay, well, that'snot gonna work, so I guess we're
cutting live.

(06:46):
But anyway, I had a really greattwo-year period there of just
kind of living in the studio.
We had a uh an Ampex eight trackand uh some custom-made board,
wasn't very good.
But a couple of mics that had an87 and two 1176s and some AKGs
and uh, you know, some somedecent pro stuff.

(07:06):
And that was just a great timeperiod.
Out of that, I got recruited bya band in Houston that was the
keyboard player and drummer forthe moving sidewalks, which was
Billy Gibbons' band before ZTop.
And that band was calledBuzzbone.
They'd been back and forth to LAa few times.
They bass player left, they cameback and recruited me, and
that's what got me to LA thefirst time uh to record and to

(07:30):
showcase.
And once I came out here, it waslike that's where I need to be.
So '77, loaded up the U-Haultrailer, moved out here to
either become a rock star or arecording engineer.
And I landed at a place calledWest LA Music uh and worked
there for three years.
And the timing was just greatbecause that was when Task Cam

(07:51):
came out with the first 80-8,their half-inch uh A-track.
And I was the only person in thestore with any recording
experience that wasn't you knowintimidated by the gear.
So all these rock stars werecoming in wanting to buy these
80-8s and a Task Cam Model 5Aconsole, and they'd say, Well,

(08:12):
you got to talk to Dusty.
That's his his thing.
So I had a great three-year runthere of selling all these all
these Task M eight tracks andthen getting hired by people to
come over and plug it in and youknow, show them how to work it
and stuff like that.
One of my clients was a reallytalented guy named Mark Abnet,
great guy, and I had sold him astudio.

(08:32):
And then around 19, end of 1979,he said, Well, I'm gonna start a
studio.
Do you want to come join me?
And I was really burnt out onit.
I'd been r doing retail in LAfor three years, so I was kind
of burnt out on it.
Wanted to, it was kind of liketime for me to either become a
rep and go to work for Yamaha orFender or something, or get back

(08:53):
to the creative side.
And I I chose the creative side.
So we started Mad Dog Studios in1980.
Wow.
And um that lasted for 25 years,and through that, I was in a
band called King Cotton that gotsigned to Island Records, and
that was a fun ride.
And then uh I met Pete Andersonin about '85, and we did start

(09:16):
working together as aproducer-engineer team.
We did a couple of records for asmall label called Enigma that
were called A Town South atBakersfield Volume One and Town
South at Bakersfield Volume Two.
And they were all the differentbands, there was this great kind
of uh we didn't even call itAmericana then, but Roots
Country, Punk Country, Cowpunkscene going on in LA with Rosie

(09:39):
Flores and Dwight Yoakum andLucinda Williams and Jim
Lauderdale and all these greatartists that I'm still really
close to.
Um and that's how I met Pete,and then Dwight got signed, and
he's like, Hey, you want to dothis record with us?
And that started like a 15-yearrun with Pete.
And I did, I think, I don'tknow, 10 Dwight Yoakum records

(10:00):
plus a lot of miscellaneoustracks over that time period.
And you know, that was just ahuge blessing to be able to go
on that ride.
And, you know, it was funbecause we we recorded at
Capitol Records, although MadDog was in Venice and it was a
small place and we didn't haveparking.
And Dwight lived right up thehill from Capitol Records in the

(10:21):
Hollywood Hills.
And, you know, we had a abudget.
Remember those?

I I my clients have never had a budget.

SPEAKER_02 (10:29):
Okay.
Well, this was this was back inthe in the old record industry
where you actually had budgets.
So we recorded at CapitolRecords, and then, you know,
when Pete got hot as a as aproducer, you know, all the
major label stuff we did atCapitol, and that was just
looking back, that was justamazing to get to get in my car
and drive to Capitol Records.
Studio B was my favorite studioin the world.

Now, are they still open or they're not?

SPEAKER_02 (10:54):
Well, I've heard that they've been closed for
about three years, and I'veheard they're supposed to reopen
this spring, but I haven't heardany hard news.

I heard rumors too.
Yeah, I heard some rumors too,and I just I wasn't clear on
that.

SPEAKER_02 (11:07):
So um And hopeful, hopefully they didn't screw it
up because it was just a mmagical place, you know.

Are the rooms still there, or you don't know?

SPEAKER_02 (11:15):
As far as I know, the rooms are still there.

Yeah.
Um and now now I think if you inin I well, you're very musically
smart.
So when you were working uhthese sessions, I mean, were you
were you mostly a producer ormostly an engineer?
I mean, how did you, you know,how did you walk that that line?

SPEAKER_02 (11:34):
Engineer first.
And uh, you know, Pete and Iwere a producer engineer team.
He was the producer and I was anengineer.
But you know, engineers start toget like, hey, I want to make
the decisions, I want to callthe shots, and that's kind of
how I I drifted into producing.

Yeah, because that's that's what I always
think of you as for some reason.
I'm not sure why.
Uh but Yeah, well, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (11:55):
I produced Lucinda Williams and Jim Lauderdale and
Rosie Flores and and then someother uh stuff more on the rock
side, uh, a couple of bandsthat, you know, did okay.

Yeah.
I I mean what what is your Imean this this this is it it
really I think all of us in thisbusiness that survive it uh end
up with sort of being at theright place at the right time uh
i is a lot of it, I think.

SPEAKER_02 (12:24):
Absolutely.

And then the other part is being too dumb to quit.

SPEAKER_02 (12:27):
And then you know that's yeah, too dumb to quit
and also being having the chopsto like when when you do get
your shot, being able to tofollow through with it.

Absolutely.
That that I'm always ready, man.
I'm always ready.

SPEAKER_02 (12:40):
And just say yes.
My motto is just say yes.
Hey, can you do this?
Yes, yeah.
Okay, let me figure out how todo that.

I have done that.
I've done that like like someonewill say, Can you do so-and-so?
And I'm thinking, I don't reallyknow if I can, but I I think I
can.
So I'm gonna just say yes andI'll figure it out.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And that's part of, but reallythat's part of my DNA as a brain
tumor survivor.
Like that's you know, likeeverything is like say yes to
life.
And uh, you know, when I was inschool as a ch as a child, I

(13:09):
mean there was no ADA, uh, therewas no accommodation.
I just had just sort of toughedit out and figured it out as we
went along.
And that's still kind of my mymode.
But but how much now how becausebecause I got into the business
initially, I was also veryfascinated with the with the
technical side.
And I I used the scientificmethod that you use, like what

(13:32):
happens if I do this?
Um you know, and I think that'sa great way to learn.
Um, though, I mean I'm certainlynot against going to school for
it too, if you can.
Um but but the other thing, whatI was gonna say is like how I I
got in the business to be anartist, but then found that you
know what really paid the billswas being uh an engineer
producer um and and that kind ofthing.

(13:52):
And for me as a blind person,like I thought the studio was a
good way to bring people to mewithout it being kind of weird.
Like I can't I as a youngster, Icouldn't drive myself.
And you don't want your mama,you know, bringing you to the
gig, you know what I'm saying?
So yeah, not that she didn't onthe I mean, you know, I had
sometimes you have to take whatride you can get.
But but like my question is, howmuch um over these years that

(14:16):
you did all these things, howmuch of it did you get to to
work on your own art and to playbass on records and stuff like
that?
I mean, how how how did you keepyour chops up in that arena?

SPEAKER_02 (14:26):
Well, uh, I kind of never stopped playing uh in the
you know, when I moved out here,I was in a band called Navasoda,
uh, that was a Houston band.
And they played every Thursdaynight at a legendary club out in
Calabasas called the SundanceSaloon.
And then most most Friday andSaturday nights we work.

(14:47):
So even while I was working atWest LA Music, I was playing
every weekend and keeping mychops up.
And then after that, thatmorphed into King Cotton and we
had to deal with Island Recordsand played on all that stuff.
And then, you know, I just, youknow, working in the studio,
especially it was in that kindof low budget years, the early
years, you know, people need abass player.
It's like, I'll play for you.

(15:08):
Yeah, you know, I'm here, mybass is in the closet, let me
get it.
A lot of that.
But here's something I thinkyou'll find interesting, you
know, because a lot of guys comeout here and would start as like
a runner in a studio and thenbecome an assistant.
And I didn't follow that path.
I mean, I mean and Mark Abnett,we built a studio and just kind

(15:29):
of figured stuff out.
So when I started working atCapital, that was kind of like
getting my official training.
I mean, I had these greatassistants that were staff
engineers at Capital that wereway better engineers than I was,
in a in a technical sense atleast.
And I learned so much from them.
One of the I think the smartestthing I did is when I walked

(15:50):
into Capitol Records for thefirst time into Studio B, and
the guy said, Where do you wantthe drums?
I said, I don't know.
Where do you like them?
And then they lighten up, theylight up a little bit.
It's like, well, I like themover here.
Great, let's put them overthere.
What mics do you want?
And I'm like, well, here's thedeal.
I've got 87s and 421s and 414s,but but what do you like?
You know, what what's cool thatI don't know about?

(16:12):
And then they really light up.
Oh, check out like I've neverseen the C24 before, you know,
which is a stereo C12.
He goes, Oh, I I love a C24 forfor room right about here.
Let's do that.
So I worked there so much.
And Pete Dell, who's uh you knowPete Dell, mastering engineer
now, but he was a staff engineerthere.

(16:34):
And Christina Picari was there.
And I learned so much from thosepeople.
I mean, they were like my thatwas like getting my graduate
degree in engineering.

Right.

SPEAKER_02 (16:44):
Anyway, it was kind of funny because they were
actually assisting me.
I was the first engineer, but Iwas I was at least smart enough
to know what I didn't know andto learn from those guys.

That is really interesting.
I mean, that that is it's kindof backwards.
Yeah, that's fascinating.
Well, you know, it's it's thething.
I mean, you know, that's you,you, you got the same sort of
you know, mentality, like Idon't pretend to know
everything.
Um, that's not to say that youdon't you don't present yourself
with uh uh you know a confidenceor anything, but I'm just saying
like you know, you you don'tpretend to know everything and

(17:15):
and uh you can learn fromanybody.
And uh man, you just keep yourmouth shut and learn.
That's that's a that's a greatway to to to to figure things
out and to surround yourself bypeople, excuse me, surround
yourself by people who you knowhave been in that space, and
that was brilliant.
That's a that was a that was agreat call.
And it makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 (17:35):
But it you know, I did learn a lot.
I'll tell you a funny story.
I I got to be really good forfriends with the legendary Al
Schmidt later on.
But early days of working atCapitol, we were mixing in
Studio C, which was kind of amixed room that just had a
little overdub booth, and it'swhere I did all that early
Yoakum stuff.
And Al would be over in StudioA, which was kind of like the

(17:56):
big band room, you know?
Right.
And I didn't know Al then, soI'd be like, Can we go in there?
So we would wait till he was atlunch and then go in and look at
the console.
And I'd be like, there's no he'snot doing anything, there's no
EQs engaged.
This is like a big band session,right?
Yeah, there's like there's acompressor on the vocal and a

(18:17):
compressor on the bass, andthat's about it.
There's no EQ anywhere.
It's like, how does he do this?
And it's like it's the right micin the right place.

Damn straight.
And it's like, what wow?
That is absolutely that that ismy one.
I mean, I think for me, uh theright mic in the right place is
kind of my mantra.
I mean, that's that's that's whyyou want a blind man uh running
your record, because I'm notdoing anything else but
listening.
That's what that's right.
That's the only thing I'm doing.

(18:49):
And uh and and it it really is.
I mean, my room, you know, isnot huge, uh, but I know I know
it.
And uh I know how to I put a umand people people are just
amazed by this, but I put astring quartet in this room, and
you know, close mic toeverybody.
But then I had um uh um a matchstereo pair uh of microphones,

(19:09):
and I put them in in uh in so inin the room, and everybody's
like, why are the mics aimedlike that?
Why, you know, this looksstupid.
And I was like, trust me.
And when you when we did theplayback, it sounded like the
room was huge.
And it's it was all just likeyou know, mic position.
I I had one guy, um, and thisvexed me to no end.

(19:31):
I don't know if you've ever hadthis happen, Dustin.
You probably haven't, but uh, Ihad my mic aimed a little
strange um in his opinion.
And uh and he's he uh he thoughtthat because I couldn't see, I
wasn't aiming it correctly.
And he went and he went andchanged it.
Uh thinking thinking he wasbeing helpful.

(19:53):
Like, hey, my mic doesn't soundright anymore.
What what what's happened?
Oh, I I aimed it for you.
Uh no, you you took it away fromwhere I wanted it.
And uh so you know, but but I Iwant to I think this is a a a
beautiful segue uh to what youare primarily doing now when we
talk about microphones, becauseyou are uh, you know, in my

(20:14):
mind, one of the microphonekings uh because you are and and
correct me if I get this wrong,but you're basic you're the CEO
of Mojave Microphones.

SPEAKER_01 (20:23):
Right, Mojave Audio.

Yeah, Mojave Audio, and um and and and uh and
you know work with the trulygenius level person of David
Ruiger.
Um and uh and and yeah, I meanhe's you know he's I remember I
remember the first time I methim and uh and and uh and I

(20:47):
think I think it was you, Ithink you said I think you said
this.
I don't want to attribute it toyou if it's not you, but I think
it was you.
Uh said, uh you know, he'llhe'll he'll talk to you for
hours about this stuff.
Um he's like if we need you knowif you need to go, just let us
know.
No, I I'm this is like this isyou know, David's sort of the
microphone Buddha.
And uh, you know, I will listento him talk about microphones as

(21:09):
long as he wants.

SPEAKER_02 (21:10):
I mean, because you know, I've been working with
David for 21 years and I'm stillthe same.
I mean, I you know, he's justlike a walking encyclopedia
database of not only microphonesbut audio.

SPEAKER_03 (21:22):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (21:23):
And but I tell people, look, if you're gonna
ask him something, getcomfortable because you're gonna
be there for a while.

But it but it it it is a real privilege.
I mean, I mean, it's just youknow, and and what I'd like to
talk about because you uh to towe're gonna backtrack slightly.
So you had Mad Dog uh for awhile.
And if I am not mistaken, youyou eventually moved from the
Venice location to a biggerspace.
Is that is is that correct?

SPEAKER_02 (21:47):
Yeah, we moved in ninety five from our little
storefront place in Venice tothis big six thousand square
foot uh uh complex with threestudios in it in Burbank.

SPEAKER_03 (21:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (21:56):
And um it was just a great place.
So I Uh after that we, you know,we started doing Dwight's
records there and started doingeverything there because it w it
was big and really cool.
And that lasted, let's see, wemoved there in 95.
I started Mojave in 2005, andthen there was about a
three-year overlap after thatwhere I was doing both.

That sounds hard.

SPEAKER_02 (22:20):
Yeah, well, it wasn't really that bad because
it everything was in Burbank.
Most of my professional life hasbeen in Burbank, which is kind
of cool because it's a citythat's devoted to, you know, TV,
film, music.

SPEAKER_03 (22:33):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (22:33):
You know, the whole economy runs on that.
So it's it's it's kind of like asmall town within a big town
that's devoted to the arts.
So I I really like it.
We're still in Burbank now.
Um but I would just I wasn'treally engineering or producing
much, but I would, you know, goI'd do my work at Mojave and
then just head over to Mad Dogafterwards and do my bookkeeping

(22:57):
and owner stuff that I had todo.
And it worked out okay.
It was a it was a good a goodthree-year period.

Well, I mean, so so that's the thing.
I mean, that but did you youknow, did I guess what without
without uh without getting intoyour personal business too much,
but what was the what was thetransition like for?
Because it sounds like if it wasworking really well, um how d
why did you transition away fromthe studio?

SPEAKER_02 (23:22):
Like what was the Well, a couple of things
happened.
I mean, I I engineered nonstopfor 25 years.
Yeah.
And you know, you know,engineering is like flying the
plane.
I mean, I love it, it'sthrilling, but there's no like
you know, there's no days offfor the engineer.
That's right.
And you're responsible for thewhole thing, and you know, it's

(23:46):
just a high stress thing.
And I I did it, I had a lot ofsuccess at it, and I kind of
fulfilled that dream.
And then in the early 2000s,after 2000, after September 11th
in 2001, the record industrykind of fell off a cliff along
with the rest of the economy.
And they stopped doing artistdevelopment, which they don't do
now.
I mean, small labels do it, butmajor labels don't even try

(24:08):
anymore.
And a lot of our business for,especially for our A-room, was
bans on their first major labelrecord.
And back then they would have,you know, 150 to 250,000.
And these great engineers likeDavid Bianco and Sylvia Massey
and Joe Barisi would come in forfour weeks and track the record.

(24:30):
And then a lot of times they'dgo back then, it was like record
on an Eve and mix on an SSL.
So they'd go off and mixsomewhere, go to record plan or
someplace like that to mix.
Right.
And that was really our breadand butter.
And then I'd be me and otherpeople would be doing our indie
stuff in the other rooms.
And it was it was just a greatlittle beehive of activity.

(24:50):
But once the major labelsstopped doing artist
development, that just kind ofdried up.
And all those people had to goout and open their own rooms,
just like you have your own roomso that you can so that you can
work.

SPEAKER_03 (25:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (25:06):
And the industry just changed.
Plus, I'd just been doing it fora long time.
I was just kind of tired.
That that's one reason I gotmore into producing.
It's like, I want to sit on thecouch.
I don't want to be driving, Idon't want to be flying the
plane.
That's great.

Well, there is that is true.
I mean, there you are right inthat, you know, uh, well, first
of all, I mean, anytime you ownyour own business, you're never
off duty.
I mean, that's that's right.
That's right.
That is that's uh always astressor.
And you know, I've tried and I'mI'm sure you've had a similar
experience.
I work really hard uh because Itell people that Joey Stucky is

(25:40):
a drama-free zone.
And if you can't be happy um inthe studio, this is not the
place for you.
Right.
We we keep it light, we keep itfun, but having almost died a
bunch of times, I am notspending a whole bunch of time
with people that are cranky.

SPEAKER_02 (25:54):
I'm just not gonna do it.
I feel yeah.
I feel yeah.
You know, it's an honor, it's aprivilege to get to go in the
studio.

It is, it's a real privilege, and it's it's
thrilling you know, it's and Ilove like I say, I love it.
I mean, with all my heart.
I mean, I want to die behind theconsole.
I mean, I I want to I just wantto drop or drop dead on stage.
Either one's fine.
But I'll never I'll never retireuh unless I you know get weird
and senile and start wanderingaround town with no underwear.
But yeah, I mean, you know, itcan happen.
But but the thing is what I wasgonna say is that you know, I I

(26:22):
um I do like understand what youmean because one of the things
that that you have to manage umis you know uh you you uh
there's never I'm never reallystressed at my place because I
know that whatever it takes tomake it right, I'm gonna do.
And so there's no stress.
Like there and you know, ifwhatever I have to do to make

(26:43):
the record right is what we'lldo.
And you usually that means Idon't get paid what I should.
But that but the thing is, Imean, you know, I'm I'm always
calm and together, at least onthe surface.
And you know, you know, I mightbe I might be feeling otherwise,
but but the client will neverknow.
And uh, you know, so you'reresponsible for the computer
crashing, you're responsible forsomeone tripping over a

(27:04):
microphone and breaking yourmicrophone.
You're saying, you know, you'reyou're responsible at some.
I mean, if I'm the producer, Itake on the added
responsibility, and I'm not sureevery producer does this, but I
really watch the budget.
Um, you know, it's like I look,we can't afford to do this.
I mean, it's like you don't havethe budget.

SPEAKER_02 (27:19):
That's part of the job.
Yeah, that's part of the job.
So I mean Well, I'll tell youwhat's funny.
Uh part of my transition fromengineering to producing was my
refusal to learn how to work ProTools.
Because I was an analog guy.
And then I had these youngassistants that had grown up
with this stuff and that arejust like so fast on Pro Tools.

(27:40):
Oh, I know.
That's like, well, I'll sit backhere and you sit up there and
play video games and we'll makea record.
And I was I I would still mixand I would still get sounds and
place mics and all that stuff,but I would I wouldn't be
sitting there punching people inand out.

Oh, yeah.
Well, it's funny you say thatbecause um I had the chance
several times to work with AlanParsons and um and and uh you
know and he he's the same way.
I mean he sits at the consoleand does all the analog stuff
and all and all the mics and allthat, and he has you know

(28:16):
20-year-old running Pro Tools.
Right.
And he just he never touches itbecause he just doesn't, it's
not he just doesn't want to.
Um for me, the reason is becauseI'm blind and because honestly,
though I can do it on my own andsometimes do, um, the fact of
the matter is a sighted personis just faster.
I mean, it's just you know, Imean, if if I say I I have just

(28:38):
found an assistant that Iactually wanted to hire
full-time, and he he graduatedfrom one of the schools, one of
the big schools, and uhunfortunately doesn't, I'm not
gonna say which one, but theyweren't real clear on signal
flow, and they sure didn't teachhim uh mic, mic technique uh
online.
But but when it comes down tothe editing and the quant, you
know, all the different thingsthat you can do in the DAW, I

(28:58):
mean, this guy's great, he's gotgood eyes.
And I could say, hey, measure34, second beat, the bass and
the kick, the bass guitar, thekick are not together.
Just line that transmit markerup for me and just slide that
into place.
And in two seconds, it's done.
Uh yeah.
You know, and uh that would havetaken me 15 minutes because I
have to drag, listen, drag,listen, drag, listen.
You know, right and he's he'sreally good, he's really

(29:21):
talented, and you know, he'she's learning a lot from me and
he's doing a lot for me.
It's great.
So he sets by the computer and II make all the decisions and uh
you know set at the console andyou know, do all the analog
stuff.
And and I am a gear freak likeyou are.
I mean, I just I I uh I'mobsessed with it.
I may have a problem.
Um I I I'm gonna tell you my myI'm hoping this gets to her

(29:42):
somehow.
I Sylvia Massey, I am a fan, butI am coming for your microphone
collection.
I am Oh man, well, she's gotone.
I'm worr I'm gonna before I die,my goal is to surpass her
microphone collection by onemic.
So I don't really want the dildoone.
She can keep that.
Uh the the uh but anyway, the II I think that um you know being

(30:06):
being uh an owner of amicrophone company obviously has
its own stressors.
How does that work uh when youcome out with a product?
I mean, what is that processlike deciding we're gonna make
this microphone?
I mean, how how does that howdoes that work?

SPEAKER_02 (30:22):
Well, just to back up a little bit, the way I I got
into this, first off, I did analbum with an artist named uh
Michelle and Deggio Cello.
Oh yeah.
The producer was named CraigStreet, and he came in, this was
at Mad Dog, he came in, this isprobably like 1999 or somewhere
around there.

(30:44):
Uh and he came in with a boxfull of coals.
And I wasn't really a ribbon micguy.
I mean, we didn't have ribbonmics, there was no Reuters then.

SPEAKER_03 (30:52):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (30:53):
And I, you know, ribbon mics were something that
you go to Capitol to do to do ahorn date and they'd break out
the RCAs, but you didn't usethem on drums and guitars.

Oh god, no.

SPEAKER_02 (31:03):
And I didn't I wasn't really hip to them.
And he had all these calls, andthis this album, it was it was
Abe LeBore Jr.
on drums, who's played with PaulMcCartney forever now, and Doyle
Bramble Jr.
on guitar, and Lisa Melvoynefrom you know Prince and Wendy

(31:23):
and Lisa on keyboards.
It was like this superstar band.

Wow, that's cool.

SPEAKER_02 (31:28):
And Craig, I would say, well, what do you want,
what do you want to use on thedrums?
He goes, he thought, Well, trythe coals.
And we ended up just using coalson everything, and I just fell
in love.
It's like, oh man, where haveyou been?
Or where have I been?
More like and right after that,it's like I got to get some
ribbon mics.
About a month later, I'm readingMix Magazine and I see an ad for

(31:50):
the Royer 121.

Classic.

SPEAKER_02 (31:53):
And they're in Burbank.
They're in the, you know,they're five minutes away from
me.
So I just call him up and say,hey neighbor, um, I'm down the
street, love to get to know you.
And I met John Jennings, who wasthe VP and the head of sales and
marketing, and still a dearfriend to this day.
Um, and I became I bought acouple of 121s and I bought an

(32:14):
SF-12 and I became a Royerendorser.
And then he started bringingmics over to do RD at my studio,
like their first sample CD.
A lot of that was done at MadDog.
Okay.
And just we got to be friends.
I'd I remember doing big banddates, and I'd be like, hey
John, can I borrow like, youknow, a dozen microphones this
weekend?
Yeah.

(32:35):
He'd be like, sure, man, what doyou want?
It's like, well, I need I needsix 121s and six 122s and an
SF-24.
Great.

Yeah, the S F2 starts with that's the tube one,
right?

SPEAKER_02 (32:46):
Yeah, stereo.
Well, the SF-24 V is the tubeone.

Oh, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 (32:50):
But back then, before they even released it,
there was one.
It was a prototype that Davemade.
And I used to borrow that allthe time.
It was just a magic mic.

SPEAKER_03 (32:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (32:58):
And you know, I'd put that over the conductor for
the big band stuff and for fordrums, just put it out in front
of the kit, you know, waisthigh.
And it's like, oh man, that'sthat's magic right there.
Um, but that's how I gotinvolved with those guys.
So Eddie Kramer used to work atmy studio and a lot, and he was
in there tracking something.

(33:20):
And I was a big U67 guy.
U67s were just my daily go-tomicrophones.
I had a really nice pair, andthey were always up.
I was always using them onsomething.
Love U67s.
Oh, yeah, me too.
So Eddie was using them for drumrooms, and John brought over the
very first prototype for theMA200.

(33:41):
And Eddie said, well, put it outthere with the 67s.
Let's see what it sounds like.
So we put it up, and the threeof us are in the control room
switching back and forth.
And I'm like, you tell me whichone's not a 67.
And John's like, yeah, well,this is basically David Royer's
take on a 67.
And it was, it was love at firstlisten.

SPEAKER_03 (33:59):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (34:00):
So at that point, my second kid was coming along, and
I'd been engineering nonstop for25 years.
The budgets had dried up, and Iwas just kind of like, what else
can I do with my life?
And I just said, hey, if youneed any help with this, I'm
kind of looking around.
And he's like, Well, we'restarting a new company and we
need somebody to run it.
And fortunately, thanks to MadDog, I'd gone back to school and

(34:23):
taken some accounting classesand some business law.
So I knew how to do books, Iknew how to do QuickBooks, and I
knew how to talk to bankers andaccountants and stuff.
And that that plus my studioexperience allowed me to do the
Mojave thing to, you know, tohelp start a company and to run
it.
Yeah.
And that's that's been 21 years.

(34:43):
But it was it was my love forU67s that got me into the mic
thing.
So that's we started the firstdamn show I went to, uh, we had
one microphone, which was theMA200.
And and then it's like, okay,well, let's do a small diaphragm
to Mike.
And that led to the MA 100.
And then but it basically isjust kind of what David felt

(35:05):
like designing.

Did he have a strategy behind like what was
missing in the industry, or isit just what fascinated him?

SPEAKER_02 (35:12):
It just what he felt like doing.
Okay.
There was there was no business.
That was more my department, butand you know, talking to our
dealers and stuff.
But uh, you know, he he just hecreates what he creates, but
fortunately they've all beenamazing microphones.
And it's like, well, let's do asolid state version, you know,
let's do this.
And I mean we talked about doingthe uh MA37, which is his his

(35:38):
version of a uh C37, Sony C37.
We talked about that for 10years before we ever actually
made it.
Really?

Yeah, but because that was my entree to you.
Oh, was it?
You you may not remember this,but I read that you were making
them, and I was blown away withthe it was a short video with
you and David.
Right you know, comparativelyshort.
And uh and I said, I I gottahave one of these.

(36:07):
This this is this is what mystudio needs to do the things I
like to do.
And I was just so impressed withit.
And I and I called up and waslike, okay, you know, how do I
get one of these and all thatstuff?
So I I was one of the veryfirst, I don't know if I was the
first, I don't think I was, butI was one of the very first
people to get one um when theycame out.
And uh, and it was it was andand my first conversation with

(36:31):
you, and you probably won'tremember this, but my first
conversation was I am blind, andthere's a hole in this
microphone where you have to putsomething to to change the
pickup pattern, and I am scaredto death to do this.
Like, like I was like, I waslike, how do you what do you use

(36:51):
to poke into this hole?
And you know, it's like what youknow, I was like, this is this
is just so I I made because Ijust know my luck with that, and
I'm like, I will somehow dosomething and destroy this
microphone.
Right.
And and I mean, I was like, youknow, I appreciate David wanting
to make it, you know, uh uhsimilar to the old days, but

(37:12):
really do we have to have thehole?
Can we not have a switch?
And so and so uh but apparentlyyou you have to have the hole uh
to change to change the waythings are on the inside to make
it omnidirectional.
So I have uh just decided thatit will always be uh in the
cardioid pattern because I amnot sticking, I'm not sticking
nothing in no microphone.
So anyway.

(37:33):
She's a nurse, I just well yousay that, but I mean see with my
budget.
Uh if anything were to happen tothis microphone, I'd be like, oh
God, what am I, you know, I justit makes me so nervous.
Um and so and so I was like,this is just I'm just gonna
leave it.
So anyway, but uh but that wasmy first uh real conversation

(37:54):
with you about you know, and andand you were so helpful and and
so kind and like no, it's not aproblem, and you you know, it's
easy to do and all this kind ofstuff.
And I still just said, I thinkwe'll just leave it.
Right, right.
But it it's it is an amazingmicrophone.

SPEAKER_02 (38:09):
That back in the analog days, there was this
thing called a tweaky tool.
They were they were green, andand they it would it had a
little clip on there, it'd fitin your pocket protector, and
that's what you use to aligntape decks.
Oh, okay.
And so there was piles of themin every studio, and that was
the perfect thing to stick inthere and rotate that that

(38:32):
little knob 45 degrees or 90degrees to close close the
chamber and make it omni.
But by the time we came out withit, you know, there was no tape
decks anymore.
So studios didn't have piles ofgreen tweaky tools everywhere.
So we include a littlescrewdriver now that's designed
to fit in there.

Well, now in that instance, mine did not come with
one.
So when I see you in LA, I'mclaiming my screwdriver.

SPEAKER_01 (38:56):
Oh, okay.
Yeah, I got one for you nexttime.

Okay, because I I didn't get any but I was Sans
screwdriver on that.
The uh, but you know, you wereso helpful talking to me um uh
the first time and you knowdidn't know anything about me,
which and just you know, we'rejust the kind, wonderful person
that you are.
And um, and it it's it was justa revelation to to hear all
these microphones and and uh andit was real interesting um you

(39:20):
know to read about them and andthe you know the different
philosophy.
And there are as you know, thereare several versions of um uh of
little interviews with with uhDavid Royer, which are you know,
I highly recommend you knowgoing to the Mojave site and
checking that out.

SPEAKER_02 (39:35):
Yeah, go on our YouTube channel, there's tons of
them there.

Yeah, I mean it's just really great.
It's it's a it's a good way tospend some time.
And the other so so with themicrophones, um, you know, I I
the music business is tough atevery level and every um you
know sort of fact phase of it.
Like so it's I mean, whetheryou're a music manufacturer or

(40:00):
you're an artist or whatever, Imean it's a really tough place
to negotiate.
And so um I am really soimpressed uh, you know, that
that that you're able to makethese quality products at at a
really good price point and uhand and and you know do it at a
high level and and have peoplelots of people love love these

(40:22):
microphones.
And the the currently, you know,this is 2026 as we're we're
talking now.
Uh you got a brand new one out,um, which I was privileged to
see before the 26 uh 2026 NAM.
And once again, uh you said tome, uh, unscrew the griddle on
this microphone.
I was like, I uh Dusty, I don'tdo that because uh what will

(40:42):
happen is there'll be a littlewire that will get stuck when I
screw it back on and it'll closeit.
I have a phobia.
I have a phobia.
Um and so he said, No, I'mtelling you to just unscrew it.
And uh it's absolutelyfantastic.
The capsules there uh revealedwithout any wires sticking out,
which was made me happy.
But what was interesting aboutthe MAC um is that it it it had

(41:07):
the uh switches inside under thecapsule, which was a really cool
design.
And um, I wanted to talk alittle about the MAC since it's
it's the the current uh you knowhot latest and greatest uh from
from Mojave.
So tell me a little bit about itand and why you did it and and
some of the cool people that areusing it, because I've seen some
videos.

SPEAKER_02 (41:26):
Well, it's a handheld condenser, and it's um
you know, it's a studio mic in ahandheld format.
Right.
And there's a couple others, youknow, Neumann makes the K KSM
104, and a couple othercompanies have handheld
condensers.
They're really for singers thathave mic technique.

(41:47):
You know, we make the MAD, whichyou've used, and oh yeah.
That's that's our kind of likeour SM58.
That's the one that for loudstages and you get right up on
it.

This is the one you won the technical award for?
Did you win it for that one?

SPEAKER_02 (41:59):
Or what we were nominated for that.
We won for the MA37, we werenominated for the MAD, we were
nominated for the wire MADwireless head that we have.
Okay, and uh that's doing reallywell in the front of house and
house of worship markets.

SPEAKER_03 (42:12):
Sure.

SPEAKER_02 (42:12):
Uh, but the the MAC hopefully will be nominated uh
for that one.
It wouldn't surprise me becauseit is pretty innovative.
It's very cool.
It's a it's a singer'smicrophone.
I always so here's the funnystory.
I always tell people think NoraJones.
Because I know herfront-of-house guy, Jamie, and I
worked with Nora a little bit 20something years ago.

(42:35):
And I think, you know, as soonas I say that, everybody knows
exactly what I mean.
Because she's so popular andcrosses boundaries between rock
and jazz and uh Americana, youknow, everybody loves Nora and
everybody gets it.
It's like, oh, okay, that kindof a singer, somebody with some
mic technique that's not playinglike super loud on stage.

SPEAKER_03 (42:56):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (42:57):
So I know her front of house guy, Jamie, he's a
great guy.
He had reached out.
And our our 201 fets have becomelike the hot microphone for drum
overheads for live use.
Yeah.
Like they've really taken offthanks to a couple of
superstars, Chris Raybold andand Ken Pooch, Van Duten, who
have been preaching the gospelfor like five years now, are

(43:19):
those mics.
And it's all thanks to them.
But Jamie, her front of houseguy, he uses 201s and he'd
reached out to me and wedeveloped a you know a
professional relationship.
And I told him, it's like, look,we've got this mic coming out.
As soon as I have one, I want toget it in your hands uh to try
on Nora.
He was like, great.
So we had some productionproblems.

(43:40):
It was just stupid stuff, justgetting the paint right on the
bodies, but paint matters.
So yeah, you know, got to get itright.
So that that slowed down theprocess, and it's taken longer
than we wanted to to actuallyget them to market.
But he reached out to me, thishas probably been a month ago
now, saying, Hey, we're coming.

(44:00):
To LA, we're doing some TVshows.
Can I get my hands on a mic?
And that was on a Monday.
So on Tuesday, I took you knowone of my few prototypes that I
had to the Sunset Marquee Hotelin Hollywood and left it with
the concierge.
Then on Wednesday, I get anemail from him and saying I used
it, it sounded great.

(44:20):
Watch Kimmel tonight.
So she's going to be on JimmyKimmel's show, and that's past
our bedtime.
So first thing on Fridaymorning, Sue and I are sitting
there and we we find Kimmel andfind Nora Jones.
And we didn't know if they'dactually use it or not because
TV they can be weird.
You know, sometimes you can usewhat you want, and sometimes

(44:42):
they're like, no, we don't wedon't do that.
We have a deal with Sure.
We only use Shures or whatever,you know.
Right.
So I wasn't sure if it wouldmake it.
So the camera kind of pulledback, and we're like, I think
that's it.
And then there was a c aclose-up of Nora sitting at the
piano with it.
And Jamie had strategicallyplaced the the logo to point
towards the camera.

(45:02):
Oh nice! Yeah, there it is.
So to have Nora Jones like kindof do the world premiere of it,
it's it's a it's her and JoshHami from Queens of the Stone
Age doing a duet of the FrankSinatra classic, um, something
stupid.

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (45:17):
And it's just it's just amazing.
So uh he's trying them out now.
There she's about to start on atour, and uh he's got one, and
hopefully she'll be using it ontour.
But that was just too crazy tohave Nora Jones be the because
like I say, I've been tellingeverybody, thank Nora Jones.

Yeah, you just put it out in the universe long
enough, it happened.

SPEAKER_02 (45:39):
Exactly.
Well, uh just tell everybody Ithink I manifested that.

Yeah, I think you did too.
I think I did.
And you know, talking about thepaint, I mean, one of the things
that's interesting is you haveit in two colors, if I recall,
and one's white and one is gray,I think.
Um, but you know, you're right.
I mean, for me, it doesn'treally matter.
But for but but artists, youknow, when they go out on tour,
uh, if they are of of enough uhpower that they can design their

(46:05):
own stage set and stuff likethat.
I mean, all those things comeinto play.
Uh you know, the color of themic and how it looks.
And and I I just have to say,you know, having held the mic,
um, you know, I think it was twodays, two or three days for NAM
this year, uh, it has a reallygood feel to it when you when
you hold it.
Um, and that that's all bydesign and the the paint job,

(46:27):
while I can't see the color, isa real smooth finish.
Um, it just it's just a realquality microphone.
And uh what I mean, just becauseI'm a nerd, uh, and I we think
of this podcast as for nerds bynerds.
And um, yeah, you know, whatwhat was the reason of hiding
the switches under the uh grill?

SPEAKER_02 (46:47):
Well, you don't want you don't want singers to have
access to them when they're onstage and accent accidentally
flip a pad on or turn the highpass filter off.
Uh so it's designed primarily asa vocal mic, but then like all
of us engineer nerds love tofind other uses for a mic.

(47:08):
I mean, the first thing I alwaysdo is stick every mic on a snare
drum.
I just have to.
I'm I'm compelled to, you know,whether it's designed for that
or not, I got I gotta know.

Try it out and see.
Well, I want to talk about thatbecause you um so so anyway, so
you and and and our and my youknow new friend, uh David Raven,
uh are you know making somemusic together.
And um and it's and it'sabsolutely a privilege and an
honor and a pleasure and just tovisit and hang out and and and
and just there's I don't know,there's something special about

(47:38):
you guys that are it's just uhit's a spiritual thing.
There's there's there's uh justa nice connection between the
three of us, I feel.
And and uh and so um you knowone of the things I said, we
were we're doing two recordingsessions, and one's at Raven's
house.
Uh he has a home studio, uh, andone is at the Les Paul studio,
uh, that's in the United uhbuilding.

(48:01):
And uh I basically pestered themuntil they agreed to let me come
and and record uh because uh Ifound I heard about it two days
before I was leaving LA from myyearly jaunt to ma'am and Grammy
Week.
And uh I got in uh at the at thelast at the 11th hour and asked

(48:21):
for 15 minutes just to touch theconsole.
You know, it's all too restoredfrom Les Paul's origin it's his
original console.
And you know, it's only eightchannels, but I I did that and
uh I asked for 15 minutes and Igot two hours.
And uh was just treated royallyby Tom Camuso, and it's just
like, you know, um, and I said,Tom, you know, uh what's it

(48:43):
gonna take to get me in here toI can record in the space?
Because as a blind person, uhI'm always exploring, you know,
the effects of the the the spaceon the art.
And you know, what what what canwe do that's interesting?
You know, what can we do thatmakes this next record uh uh uh
something uh different andthat's you know still the same

(49:04):
brand but but unique.
So anyway, we we are we're gonnabe in there, and I said to you,
like you know, we need to useMojave microphones to capture
all this stuff.
And uh, and then I said, youknow, what I'm gonna I'm gonna
leave it to you being the experton on the company or anything of
what what what we want to use umto record.

(49:26):
So I'll I'll leave that to you.
And uh and interestingly, youknow, the MAC was one of the
things you said, I think I wantthat on the snare.
So that was uh yeah, so that waskind of cool.
So uh clearly, you know, thesemics ha have uh a multitude of
of functions, even if they'redesigned specifically for a
specific task.
You never know when they'regonna be an awesome choice for

(49:48):
something else.
And it's kind of like my wife,uh, who's an advanced practice
nurse, uh, specializing inwomen's health and a midwife.
Um, you know, there's lots ofmedicine that that people use
for a certain thing, and thenyou find out, oh, yeah, I can do
this too.
So it's the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 (50:01):
Off-label applications.

Yeah, yeah.
So it's the same thing withthese mics.
And you chose, I don't know ifyou'll remember, um, but you did
choose choose the MAC for the uhfor the snare.
I think the uh MAD for the kick,if I'm remembering correctly.
I've slipped a little bit sincewe talked last, so I may be
forgetting something.

SPEAKER_02 (50:18):
I actually have a kick drum prototype that I think
we want to try on.
Oh that I can't talk too muchabout, but it's okay.
It's it's it's our kick, youknow.
Yeah, it's hopefully ourupcoming kick drum mic.

Well, now I feel special.
Um and well, you are.
Well, yes, in a in in in a watchthis guy, he's a little
stranger.
I know what you mean.
No, I'm kidding.
I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02 (50:40):
Air quotes special.

Yeah, yeah, oh yeah.
Special.
Only only about two years agodid I discover air quotes.
Uh I'm in my late 40s now, and Ihave been missing air quotes my
entire life.

SPEAKER_01 (50:52):
People have been air quoting at you all these years.

All these years, and then I've I've finally
learned how to do it myself.

SPEAKER_02 (50:58):
Uh well to backtrack just a little bit uh about the
switches, yeah.
Uh and even uh backtrack alittle bit more because I want
to talk about we were talkingabout the color and the feel and
all that stuff.
So I'm colorblind.
Oh yeah, I'm colorblind.

And no, just specific colors or all colors.

SPEAKER_02 (51:16):
Well, it's the common red-green colorblindness
that 10% of the male populationhave it.
Only only 1% of females have it.
Interesting.
Like it's very common.
Yeah.
So I'm I'm not great withtraffic lights, you know, out in
the out in little towns inTexas, I would say, is that
yellow?
Is that light yellow or red?
You have to ask somebody.

(51:36):
Oh my god.
But but so we wanted to do, wehad a request from one of our
dealers to do a white version ofthe MAC because they get
requests for it, and there's nota lot of white microphones out
there.
And then the gray color is likethat's that's the main color.
That's the one we settled on forthe, you know.
It's like we're doing gray, butwe're also gonna do something
white.

(51:57):
So my partner, who is also mywife, Sue, has a uh background
in the fashion business.
I mean, I haven't bought myselfa shirt in decades.

Oh, I I know, I understand.
I just Jeffer just says wearthis and I do it.

SPEAKER_02 (52:09):
Yeah, so yeah, me too, me too.
And it's and it works out justfine.
It's fine.
But she has a background in thefashion business.
She said, You're doing white.
Do you know how hard it is toget white right?
And I'm like, no, I don't.
It's white.
What's the big deal?
Yeah, the people thing.
Yeah.
What's the big deal?
And you know, I love UAproducts.
I'm a huge UA fan, but they'rewhite microphones, they look

(52:30):
like stormtroopers from StarWars.
I mean, it's just like, oh my,oh my God, they look terrible.

Yeah, that's that's yeah, that's strange.

SPEAKER_02 (52:37):
You know, how did that get through?
Such a great company.
I don't know.
I'm sure there's a story there.
But so white's really hard.
Okay.
To come up with the white.
I mean, Sue worked really hard,and it was a long process to get
to get the colors right.
And then the first ones we got,they were too, they weren't
glossy enough.

Yeah, they are these are very smooth finished,
they're glossy.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (53:00):
Getting the right amount of gloss on there so it's
not too much too reflective, butthat it has a good feel and a
little shine to it.
That was a whole thing.
The first ones we got, theprototypes didn't have any gloss
on them.
And immediately Big John, ouryou know, awesome tech, oh, he's
awesome got fingerprints on himjust immediately, like within

(53:22):
five minutes.
It's the last thing we want.
It's like I think we have aproblem here.
So it it was a long process ofgetting the colors right, the
amount of gloss right.
And then with the switches, weput them in there because since
it's primarily and I I got a funstory for you.
Uh, one of the videos that wehave, it's up on our site and

(53:43):
it's on the on the YouTubechannel too, is of a great
artist named Stacy Ryan playingpiano and singing.
We did it in East West on theirnine foot, whatever that awesome
piano is.

SPEAKER_03 (53:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (53:55):
Um, and I hadn't recorded with it before, and we
we had a limited amount of timeto get this video shot.
And I was in the control room,it sounded fine.
She's amazing.
She's kind of a Norah Jonesstyle, kind of jazzy piano and
vocals.
But when I got the tracks outand listened to them, there was

(54:15):
horrible plosive problem,peepops for the for the
civilians out there.
I'm like, oh no.
Yeah.
So we ended up changing thevalue on the high pass filter um
for the production models.
And fortunately, on herrecording, we had Isotope and
you went in with RX, man.

(54:36):
RX saved us on that one.
Just I turned on Plosivesremover and boom, it was
perfect.

Oh my god, you have to dial it in.
No, no, you just drop it on thetrack and you're done.

SPEAKER_02 (54:46):
Yep.
And then we our second video iswith a great artist named Chris
Pierce, and he's playingacoustic guitar and singing.
On Stacy's, we used three MACs,two on the piano and one on her
on her vocal.
Oh, so you use on the piano aswell.
Yeah.
And then on Chris, we had one onhis vocal and one on his
acoustic.
But that was after we discoveredthis problem and changed the
value of the high pass filter.

(55:08):
Uh, we raised it from 100 hertzto 200 hertz, which really just
solved the problem.
We were trying different amountsof foam and wire acoustic wire
mesh and stuff in the grill totry to deal with it, but that
ended up being the solution.
And uh on Chris's, that's afterwe discovered that.
So there were you know, therewas no problem.

(55:31):
So we well, I just the when weship out a mic, it's got a
little card that David Royersigned saying that he personally
listened to that mic and it'sgot the serial number and how to
register it and all that stuff.
On the back, we we put a stickerthat says, you know, this is
this mic ships with the highpass filter engaged, since it's

(55:53):
primarily a vocal mic.
So if you if you want to put iton something else, then there's
a switch inside, you can turn itoff.
But we decided since it'sprimarily a vocal mic to ship it
with the high pass filterengaged, that's smart.
So singers would be good to go.
And then there's also a 15 dBpad in there.
So if you're gonna put it onsomething loud, you can engage
the pad.

Yeah.
I love that.
I mean, I think that's I thinkthat's way cool.
And I'm I'm so fascinated thatthat um that you were able to
use them on the piano as well.
So that's really cool.

SPEAKER_02 (56:23):
Oh, it sounded great on the piano.
Sounded amazing.

Yeah, yeah.
And you know, the the uh the theum the MA37s, um, you know, uh
you you had I I haven't I onlyhave one, so I have to uh get
lonely, Joey.
I know you're in pairs.
I was hoping I could mate haveit mate with something, but
apparently that's not gonnahappen.
Uh apparently that that futureis still too far away.

SPEAKER_02 (56:49):
But what I was gonna do is I was gonna make an
off-color whole uh joke aboutthat hole that's on the back.

Well, let's let's just assume that you have.

SPEAKER_02 (56:57):
We'll let people fill that in for themselves.

There's yeah, this is a podcast where you have to
do work.
That's right.
But I know but you were sayingthat you thought that for for
our session at the Les Paulstudio, uh, you were gonna maybe
use two of the MA37s asoverheads, which I haven't done
yet.

SPEAKER_02 (57:12):
So because only Oh, I love them for overheads.
Here's the thing about that micthat's a that's a connoisseur
mic, it's different than all ofour other mics.

SPEAKER_03 (57:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (57:20):
Because most, you know, most of us are doing a
riff on stuff that Dr.
Neumann invented, you know, 80years ago, whenever it was.

SPEAKER_01 (57:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (57:29):
And and that, you know, you go up to our MA 1000
or 300 or any of our other micsand go check one, too, and
you're gonna go, wow, thatsounds great.
The MA37 is dark, it's lowoutput, and it's almost like a
ribbon mic.
And it's a magical microphone.
It's just so 3D and warm anddeep and all those things.

(57:50):
But if you don't know what itis, I mean, we had them
initially people bought themwithout really knowing what, you
know, either watching the videoor knowing what a Sony C37A was
like.
Right.
And they would return them andsay, there's something wrong
with this mic.
It's really dark and theoutput's low.
And I'm like, yeah.

Yes, and you do have some responsibility as the
shopper to educate yourself too.
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (58:15):
And I'd be like, you know, I think maybe you'd be
happier with a with an MA 1000.
Yeah.
And that's our, you know, that'sthat's David's version of a 251.
And that mic is just, you know,it is heavenly, but it's bright,
bright and airy and open.
And the MA37 is not that.
It's closer to a ribbon mic, butit does a magical thing.
So I think, especially sincewe're in the Les Paul studio, I

(58:38):
think that the MA37s will justbe a great choice for drum
overheads.

I well, once you said it, I go, oh, I get it.
That makes sense.
And you know, the the thing forme, I'll I'll tell you the mic,
I have a guy here in town who isuh a fantastic uh sax player.
And he was in the military andplayed uh played in military
bands.
Um, I I think it was the AirForce.
I can't I may be wrong aboutthat.

(59:03):
But he also, so he lived inGermany for a while and then
like played a bunch of gigs,like you know, just in the local
community.
And, you know, he's got some ofthe best tone you've ever heard,
just real powerful uh player,and just he's super loud.
I mean, he's just I mean, I haveto like I was like, wait till I
get out of the room before youstart playing because Joey

(59:25):
cannot lose another sense.
I can't see, I can't smell.
I've got to be able to hear.
Yeah, I've got to be able tohear.
Uh so but he's just but anyway,he he will not let anyone in
town, uh he's uh he's in his 70snow, I guess, but he won't let
anyone in town record him butme.
He just he just refuses.
He's like, you know, if youcan't do it, I'll just wait

(59:46):
until you're available.
And so, but what he does is hedoes because he's written
several books on um saxophoneand and uh and stuff like that,
you know, he's he's got a bit ofa reputation uh in circles uh
that that love um you know 50sand 60s uh horn playing and
stuff like that.
So he does a lot of um remotesessions with the power of the

(01:00:09):
internet, you know.
He comes in, I track it, andthen we send the file off to
whoever.
And uh, but I you know I've I'veused uh a U87 on him for a
million years and whatever else,but he's always so happy, you
know, when I when I engineer forhim.
But the the thing is, normally Iwill not take a session that's
under two hours because it'sjust a waste of my time.

(01:00:30):
Uh and and it's a waste of theclient's time because it's hard
to get anything done in thatamount of time by the time you
set up and all this stuff.
So, but with him, he actuallygets it done in an hour, and I
will I will break my own rule.
But anyway, I wanted like thethe Rudy van Gelder uh sound as

(01:00:54):
you know, as close as I couldget of some of those classic
jazz records that were made.
And I just I just knew that MA37was gonna give it.
And uh and it absolutely does.
And and one of the things thatpeople don't think about, uh,
and this is Uber Gurdy, but I'mgonna say it anyway.
Uh the fact of the matter is,you know, there's the
fundamental frequency of theinstrument, and then there are

(01:01:15):
all the overtones or partials orharmonics, whatever you want to
call them.
And uh, you know, in in jazz,sometimes it's more about those
than it is the fundamentalfrequency.
Sure.
And and boy, the the the theMA37 really is suited to to to
capturing uh I mean it soundsgreat on the fundamental

(01:01:37):
frequency too, but what I'msaying is like, you know, it's
really good at capturing morelike vibe of the room and the
horn and the fact that it'sdarker, you know, it it it
really just works so well on onsaxophones, specifically one
that's a guy that plays sobright.
Um because his tone is is great,but it is very bright.

(01:01:59):
So anyway, it is a greatmicrophone for so many different
things.
I've used it on vocals, I'veused it on the you know, the
horns.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:06):
It's great on guitar amps.

Joey Stuckey (01:02:07):
It it yeah, and I have I've used it on the
acoustic guitar as well.
Um, and and then, but like Isaid, I I only have one, so I
can't do the drum overhead thingwith it.
So uh but anyway, um it's allmono, Joey.
Uh I mean, you know, mono's forwussies.
No, I'm just kidding.
Uh but anyway, but yeah, I couldthrow it up, I suppose, as a
mono room mic.
But uh, but anyway, I I love itand it's great.

(01:02:28):
And uh my goal is to have two ofevery mic, and currently I I
can't say that with mycollection, but uh it's mostly
that way.
Um I do have two Mojave uh 201s,and I've got a 300, and I've got
uh I've got about six of theMADs, and um and the first time

(01:02:50):
we we really got a chance to tovisit for a long period was when
that microphone just came outand I came to Mojave HQ and and
we did did some singing on thatthing, and and uh and that's
that's on the YouTube channel aswell, I'm assuming.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:04):
Yeah, you're up there.
Yes, well, just to back up alittle bit on the MA37 before we
move on.
Please.
Uh there's two videos on ourYouTube channel.
One is kind of like the originstory of the MA37, and it talks
about the Sony C37A.
Yeah, because that that mic wasnever huge, but it was really
popular in Southern Californiain the wrecking crew era.

(01:03:26):
Oh, I didn't know that.
In the 60s, it's all over thoserecords.
Wow.
And then it it they stoppedmaking it, and uh, you know, it
people it's one of those, if youknow, you know mics, but they're
not near as well known as theNeumans are globally.
But in Southern California, theywere really popular.
So we've got a really greatvideo that's the origin story of

(01:03:47):
the MA37, and then there'sanother great video.
Um I've got some other reallyclose Mojave family members, uh
Tony Austin and Miles Mosley.
And they're these amazing jazzuh artists that grew up here in
LA.
They play with KamasiWashington.
Oh cool.
Tony, the drummer, not onlyplays with Kamasi, but he also

(01:04:11):
engineers and co-produces thestuff.
And, you know, that's a hugeband.
Okay.
He's a big, they're both bigMojave guys, but uh there's a
great video of Tony.
He's at Sunset Sound, and he'stalking about using the MA37's
recording Kamasi and andespecially for drum overheads,
how it just like gets the therelationship between the cymbals

(01:04:34):
and the the drums just right.
Like it kind of tames thesymbols and brings the tone of
the drums out.
Well, that's the trick.
That's the trick.
Right.
And there's no harshness, it'ssmooth.
And if you need to add somesparkle on the top end, they eq
great.
You know, you can't.
Oh yeah, that's fine.

Yeah, it's easy to EQ it.
It doesn't, it doesn't, itdoesn't, you know, sometimes you
EQ stuff and you're like, ohman, this this this this made
things too brittle or whatever.
Right.
Um, you know, that's that's thething but I mean yeah, no, it it
it absolutely is easy to to eq.
I mean, you know, I I kind of Ikind of try to, you know, go
like we were talking earlierabout about doing the the owl

(01:05:12):
method of uh you know nottouching something unless I have
to.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:16):
Well it's so funny.
We were talking about mybackground and and you know in
in the 80s, I mean, the way yougot a sound was it's like okay,
play the kick, and you wouldsolo the kick and start e just
dive for the EQ.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:28):
Right?

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:29):
And then, you know, okay, snare drum, dive for the
EQ.
Like just that's the way we didit back then.
And then I learned it's likethat's really exactly the wrong
way to do it.

I mean, you know, it's funny too, because I mean,
it depends on what gear you'reusing, because like Alan
Parsons, you know, has a classicsnare drum.
I can recognize Alan Parsons'snare drum a mile away.
And um and and you know, I saidto Alan, you know, uh what's
what What's the secret here?
What's how you know, how are youdoing that?

(01:06:03):
And um not always, but often uhhe uses the like real vintage uh
Neumann KM84 on the snare.
Um and you know, um, and then hehe said I I bring up 10k uh on
the EQ.
And I said, Well, how how much?

(01:06:24):
He's like, until the knob stopsturning.
I love it.
I love it.
And I said, So, so when I gothome, I said, Well, I'm gonna I
have to try this.
But on my console, like itsounds terrible.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:38):
Yeah, what so you know what what what console he
was talking about?

Well, he always works on these pretty much.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:44):
Okay, you know, Andy Johns, the legendary Andy Johns
was working at my studio, andhe's who first taught me how to
like pull the fader down andcrank the pre-amp preamp gain up
on a Keeve.
Yeah.
Because I was always trained,it's like you want to set the
fader at zero and then adjustthe preamp accordingly so you
have the right level.

(01:07:04):
And he's like, you know, uhscrew that, mate.
Here's how you do it.
Okay, he would pull the faderway down and then crank that
pre-up to where it wasdistorting, you know, just the
right amount, and it's like, ohman, that sounds amazing.

Oh, I'll have to try that.
I have I have not tried that.
I was taught the same way youwere.
I mean, yeah, yeah.
And and it's and and and I thinkmost people are taught that way
uh right now.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:26):
When you listen to like the guitar sound on
Revolution by the Beatles.

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:30):
You know, that's pre-amp distortion.
That's that's board distortion.

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:35):
Yeah.

I didn't know I wondered about that because it
it it didn't really sound likeamp distortion, but I thought,
well, maybe, I mean, you know,it was it was back before I was
born, so I was like, well, maybeyou know, maybe it was some
piece of equipment I don't know,or you know.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:51):
No, that was c that's the that's the classic
reference for that kind ofdistortion.
It's like if you want to knowwhat what preamp distortion
sounds like, listen to that thatBeatles record, and there you
go.

That's that's a fan, it's a fantastic record.
I mean, well, I'm obsessed withall the Beatles stuff.
Oh, me too.
Me too.
Uh, you know, as a as a sickchild, you know, my mom, who's
always been so giving, likeshe's just like a giving person.
And on Mother's Day, I'll neverforget, I was like six or seven
years old.
And on Mother's Day, we weregoing to see my grandmother, and

(01:08:24):
my mom stopped at a store uh atlike at like a supermarket.
Uh, I don't know if you rememberthis, Dusty, but the
supermarkets used to have atleast the one I we had sometimes
would have a little rack at thefront that had vinyl.
Right.
And I don't know if they didthat in California or or not, or
Texas or whatever, but anyway,they had this little rack of
vinyl at the front of the store,and the rest of it was all food.

(01:08:45):
And um, and so anyway, she uhshe she just she was not a
Beatles fan herself, um, but mymom and my dad both were always
willing to expose me to you knoweverything that was going on and
like just like make sure my myview of the world was as broad
and and and deep as it could be.
And you know, as as a blindchild who was sick a lot in the

(01:09:08):
hospital a lot, you know, thethat was a that was a challenge
to to do that.
So the uh she she came out ofthe store, which I I don't
remember what she went in to getbefore we made it to my
grandma's house, and but shebrought me a Beatles record.
And um she's like which one?
This is the weird part.
So she goes, uh I've she said,This is um a band that's real

(01:09:30):
popular, and I I thought you'dwant to listen to it.
Um I don't really know theirmusic, but you know they're
they're they're huge.
It was yesterday and today.
Oh wow.
And I wore that record out.
Right and uh and it was a greatsource of comfort to me whenever
I didn't feel well.
I would like put it on, it mademe feel better.

(01:09:52):
Oh, that's awesome.
And it and it's so so when I andthen so then once that happened,
uh uh as I got a little older,uh, I started buying, I
backtracked and went and got allthe Beatles records.
And uh, and so but I wanted toask, I'm leading up to a
question for you.
Uh so now, of course, every timea Beatles product comes out, I

(01:10:13):
buy it.
I mean, that's just I don't haveto ask.
I mean, it's just a you know,oh, we've remastered it for the
third time.
I I'll take it.
I'll take it.
Um, but with these new remixes,um they are uh technologically
remarkable, yeah, but they don'taffect my spirit the same way.

(01:10:37):
I I miss the grit.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:38):
I get it.
I get it.

You know, you know, so I I miss the grit and
the flaws and the the clippingand the you know, all the stuff
that's actually wrong with theoriginal recording.
Uh you know, a limitation of thetime.
Um but but like how do you Imean how do you feel about that
as a as an engineer and aproducer?

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:56):
I mean, what's well I love listening to Giles, I
think Giles Martin's amazing.
Yeah, just genius.
But you know, I've lived withthose records for too many
decades.
It's like I'll I know that theharmony vocal is gonna come up,
come out of the right speaker,and that's where I want to hear
it.
You know, I feel used to it.
But I'm I've got a big high-rescollection.

(01:11:17):
Oh, yeah.
And and I've got like uh, youknow, I've got my personal list
of of what I consider likeflawless albums.
Yeah, Abbey Road's got to benumber one on that list.
It's up there with StickyFingers and Born to Run.

Oh, sticky fingers is great.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:33):
Who's next?
And you know, I've got mypersonal list.
These are just flawless records.

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:38):
And uh I love listening to Abbey Road and on
the high-res, you know, the thethe original mixes, but the the
latest remastered, you know,96k.

96k, right, right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I I'm with you, I like Ilike the remasters.
I mean, but but that originalsort of grit is still there, you
know.
And and and you know, but butit's like it's it's it's also
you know, high fidelity and it'sit's it's great.
But I and I love again from atech from an engineering

(01:12:10):
standpoint.
I mean, I listened to the reremix stuff as like, wow, this
is amazing.
The technology is so good.
I mean, it sounds like they didit today.
Um but I just, you know, I miss,I'm like, oh God, I can't, you
know, it just it doesn't connectwith me as much because I lived
like you, I've lived with thoserecords my whole life.
Exactly.
You know, I'm I miss I miss theI miss the weird spot where you

(01:12:32):
can suddenly hear the drums uhin the wrong place echoing in
the background when the pianoplays.
You know, that's just part ofit, part of the music.
You know, if if so do now you umdo you play much jazz yourself?
I mean, are you uh jazz okay?

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:48):
I can fake jazz, you know.
It's like, hey, play, you know,play play jazzy.
I'd say, okay, I'll start addingin some more incidentals and you
know, wrong notes.

The wrong notes of jazz.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:00):
Exactly, exactly.
So I can fake it, but I'll tellyou what, after hanging out with
with Miles Mosley, who's anupright bass player, in fact, he
just released a new album.
He and it's only available onvinyl.
He's do he's doing a series ofthese, and the first one is his
LA one, but he's gonna do aseries of them around the world.

(01:13:20):
And he only makes 500 copies.
They're hand like handautographed, and the art's
amazing.
Oh my gosh.
And I just Sue and I just infact I had to get my receiver
fixed so that I could play uhuse my turntable and tried to
play it, and it was like, okay,got to do some work here.
But we, you know, to sit downand listen to a vinyl album from
start to finish and get up halfof the way through, you know,

(01:13:43):
and but Miles is like the JimiHendricks of bass.
I mean, he plays, he's KamasiWashington's bass player and an
amazing artist on his own.
And his stuff is just a trio.
It's him and Tony Austin andthis great piano pianist named
Cameron Graves, who's they allgrew up together.
They all went to the same highschool for the performing arts
here in LA.
And they're just superdisciplined, educated musicians.

(01:14:09):
You know, I can I love it.
And it's like those guys arejazz players.
I can I can fake it, you know,but those guys are it's like
that's those guys are like PhDsin jazz, you know.
Yeah, yeah, they're justamazing.
And I I I love I always tellthem I I I feel here for just
knowing you guys.

Absolutely.
That's how I feel about knowingyou.
Uh for just knowing you.
Um I I actually I really meanthat.
I really do mean that.
Um, the uh I will say that whatyou know I I want to close on
this.
Um, you know, uh I've uh youknow a lot about the music
business.
Um I used to.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:47):
I'm not sure I do anymore.
Well, right.

So I know what you mean.
But but you and one of thethings I should I should mention
is a self-lift plug here.
We're gonna cut straight tovinyl at the uh Les Paul studio,
at least for one song, becausewe can't.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:59):
Oh, that's gonna be so fun.

Oh, that's that's gonna be a lot of fun.
And uh I'm gonna, you know, I'mI'm excited about that.
But anyway, the what I was gonnasay is, you know, listening to a
whole album from start to finishis really a treat.
And uh and it's the way itshould be done, and it's one of
the problems I think.
Uh I mean, there's a lot ofthings to be said about
streaming.
I mean, it is convenient, andyou can have like a billion
songs in your pocket.

(01:15:20):
I mean, that's that that is kindof cool, but there's there's a
but there's a another partthat's it's become just you
know, sort of disposable.
Uh it's not the same level ofeffort or ceremony to listen to
great music anymore.
Um, and I miss that.
I miss because when I was a kid,and when I was a kid about you
know 12 years old, uh my friendswould all gather at my house

(01:15:42):
once a week because I had thebest stereo, and you know, we we
would save up our money for aweek or two and go to the record
store and buy something, andwe'd all get together with our
records we bought for the weekand listen to them and and
listen to them all and and talkabout it.
And you know, I missed that.
Um, but what I wanted to say iswith you know, with all the

(01:16:02):
changes, um, from yourperspective as a musician, uh,
as a producer, engineer, and asa businessman making
microphones, what do you thinkis going to be the trajectory
for the music business over thenext couple of years, especially
considering that we we've got AIas a major disruptor?

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:22):
Well, I think that I mean, I you know, bottom line, I
don't have a clue.
Who knows?
But I the thing that I'venoticed that in fact Sue and I
have been talking about this umis people crave the shared live
experience.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:39):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:40):
Like I was just in Sweetwater for a week, and my
son, who's in in pro audio, hedoes marketing for a company
called Providence SoundEnvision, which is a high-end
boutique pro audio dealer herein LA, um picked me and Sue up
at LAX, and we drove straight tothe forum where they dropped me
off.
I hopped out of the car to gosee Bruce Springsteen.

(01:17:01):
Oh, did not miss seeing Bruce onthis tour.
You know, he's getting up there.
I mean, he's still like at thetop of his game, but you never
know.
And with some of these olderstars, you know, each time you
see him, it's like this could bethe last time.

You know, I get it.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:17:15):
And he's all revved up, he's doing his political
tour, his activism tour.
Yeah.
And it's like, I can't missthis.
And I just bought a cheap seatby myself.
They dropped me off and pickedme up after, but I literally
went straight from the from FortWayne, Indiana to go see Bruce.
Wow.
You know, and I think that itthat shared live experience is

(01:17:35):
no matter what happens withrecording, you know, it people
crave that.
And I think it it's probablybigger than ever.
I think we crave it more andmore because we're so fractured
as a country and a world thatthe things that we can come
together for, I think peoplecrave that.
And you know, my kids, they wentto go see uh Kendrick Lamar at

(01:17:57):
the um the big uh stadium here,the huge new stadium, SoFi,
which is I don't know, I haven'tbeen there, but it's you know,
90,000 seat or something likethat.
It's where it's where thefootball teams play.
It's huge, it's a beautifulstadium, but it's indoor
outdoor.
But they paid a lot of money togo see Kendrick Lamar and Ciza.
And uh but you know, they're myson's twenty-six, my daughter's

(01:18:23):
twenty-two.
I mean, that's they crave thatexperience.
And my my daughter is just aboutto graduate from college, and
it's called experience industrymanagement, which is kind of a
fancy word for uh eventplanning.
And her focus is on sports,especially women's sports.
Her dream would be to work for aprofessional women's sports
team.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:43):
And it's cool.

SPEAKER_02 (01:18:44):
But you know, that it's that's kind of a thriving
new discipline to to studybecause people crave a live
experience and there's nosubstitute for that.

And it's all about connection, it really is.

SPEAKER_02 (01:18:58):
Yeah, it really is.
And you know, for us asmusicians, we'll you know, we'll
go play in a crappy little barfor a couple of drinks and a
burger because we cra we gottahave it, you know.

We gotta have it.
It's it's it's a it really is.
I mean, music is uh an extensionof my spirit, and I'm not uh
fully alive without it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:19:20):
And uh same.

You know, and and uh and I remember we had such an
interesting experience.
I'm not sure you noticed this,but uh you and I played uh
together uh at a at a little barum uh pub, two or three songs.
Ireland 32.
Yeah, and uh in the heart of thevalley.
And it was uh I have to say, itwas pretty packed.

(01:19:43):
I mean, there was a lot ofpeople there.
Uh it it was a um it was a uh uhan event being run by uh who was
running the drummer was it wasDave Raven.
Dave Raven, okay.
So Dave was I thought yeah, Ididn't I didn't really get
chance to meet him because hewas kind of stuck in the corner.
Um and I can't, you know, beingblind, like that stage was not
really negotiable.
So I was just like, oh, I'lljust have to I'll just have to

(01:20:04):
say thanks for playing and getoff.
But as we as we made our waythrough this very tight packed
room, um, I don't know if youremember this, some woman came
up to me and pushed money in myhand.
And uh it was just it was Idon't I don't I don't think I
mentioned it because I washanging onto your shoulder
trying not to fall over becauseit was so tight.

(01:20:25):
But uh it was I I got I got homelater and I I think it was like
a five dollar bill or something.
I can't remember now.
But but anyway, the point thoughis I I do think that uh you know
people recognize uh at somelevel that there needs to be you
know human connection uh and andthat that is real important, and

(01:20:46):
I think they're willing to payfor it because you know, I I
mean, like I paid a ridiculousamount of money to see Ringo
Starr.
Uh and the seats were not eventhe greatest seats, but it was
well worth it.
And uh, you know, with toamplify your point from earlier,
it was like, I mean, how manymore times is he gonna do this?
I better go see him.
Sure.
You know, and and it's the samething with Paul McCartney.

(01:21:09):
Um, you know, uh, I mean, andand it just so happens that with
Paul, you know, for years hekind of eschewed the Beatles
catalog, you know, wouldn'treally play much of it.
Uh and this concert was like 60%Beatles, which was I know, it's
so great.
It was so surprised to me.
And I was like, oh my god.
And he played for three hours.

(01:21:29):
I got my money, man.
I got my money worth.

SPEAKER_02 (01:21:31):
I mean, and that band, that's that band is
amazing.

Oh, they're there's just sick.
You know, and I'm I'm a lotyounger than Paul, and I don't
want to play for three hours.
Right.
And I and I the whole reason Iget out of bed in the morning is
for music, and I still don'twant to play for three hours.

SPEAKER_02 (01:21:47):
I know.
I mean, I used to I've been tosome Springsteen concerts.
This one was was a reasonabletwo and a half hours, okay,
which was just about right.
But I've been at Springsteenconcerts where I'm like, please
stop playing.
Well, it's four hours.
It's like I gotta go home, man.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, he's five years older thanme.

Well, you have you you do have a bedtime that you
like.
Um, I do.

SPEAKER_02 (01:22:11):
That is true.
I like my jammies and mygummies.

And I'm honored that you're gonna uh miss that
bedtime to play with me at thewhiskey.
So that's you know, good.
Thanks, thanks for that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:22:22):
Well, I'll I'll take a nap that day.

So yeah, you you you'll be fine.
You're you're fine.
But I but I just wanted to say,you know, I do think like with
Springsteen, um, I've alwaysI've always been a fan.
Um I don't have every record oranything like that, but I mean I
do have I do have some of therecords, and I've always been a
fan, and I have to say that um,you know, there's been a lot of
um a lot of people talking aboutmusicians staying in their lane

(01:22:48):
and staying out of politics.
And um, and I just find thatreal surprising because music
has always been political.
Um I mean John Lennon waspolitical with his music, uh
Bruce, you know, Springsteen'salways been political with his
music, Bob Marley and Bob Dylantoo, yeah.
Bob Marley.
Uh Sally Kuty.
Yeah, I mean it's it's alwaysbeen you know uh and I so I

(01:23:12):
really um I really appreciate itbecause I do take the moniker of
artists very seriously, and I dothink that I have some
responsibility uh to like youknow to to to help with the uh
the the introduction of newideas uh to move to move forward

(01:23:36):
in the way that we think ashumans.
Um you know, and and I alsothink that I have a duty to
record history and to make surewe remember certain things.
And I mean I think art of courseyou can be entertained by art as
well, and that's that's alegitimate function as well.
But I mean, I do really feel uhthat that be an artist is a

(01:23:56):
serious you know job.

SPEAKER_02 (01:23:58):
And uh and I just well on this tour with Bruce,
it's like he's always been anactivist, but in a very
politically correct way.

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:24:08):
You know, yeah, and you know, at every concert,
they'll be like, there's somepeople out there, it's the local
homeless shelter or you know,something for veterans.
Like he's always had thatelement, but it's been in a very
like uh not taking sides kind ofway.
But this time, I mean the guy'sin his, you know, what is he,
the 76 or something like that?

(01:24:31):
And he's he's Bruce Springsteen,you know?
Yeah, and he's just like, look,people, yeah, look, he's kind of
like Barack Obama.
It's like, look, I let's talkabout this.
Let's name it, you know, this isfucked up.

Yeah, absolutely.
And and you know, and and I haveto tell you, as an artist, I
have been uh I've beenstruggling with with what uh
what I want to say and what Iwant to do, you know, right vis
a vis like the world in which welive.
And so what I've mainly done uhwith my with like my social
media posts and stuff like thatis yeah, I just try to remind

(01:25:04):
everybody that we're allneighbors and uh we're all
fellow passengers on thespaceship Earth, and it's
important to treat people withdignity and kindness and um and
I and we all deserve equalprotection under the law, and
you know, we we have a we have aresponsibility uh and a
privilege to help each other.

SPEAKER_02 (01:25:21):
And uh well, I don't see why a rock star or an
athlete or an actor's opinion isany less valued than a
billionaire's.

I agree.
And and the fact is, you know,say the thing is, I mean, you
know, we are protected fromcensorship from the federal
government with with the FirstAmendment.
Um and and and you know, butfree speech is not consequent
free speech.
I mean, so sometimes you saysomething and you know, like the
Dixie chicks, it may hurt you,but you have to you have to be
true to yourself and true toyour spirit and uh you know do

(01:25:52):
what you think's right and thentake the take the take the
consequences.
Take the heat, right?
But listen, it's it's it's a apleasure and a privilege always,
and you know so many coolpeople.
Um by the way, Becky from uh JBLsaid hello.
Uh Becky and I'm gonna visit herwhile I'm out out in in LA.
Oh, maybe I'll go with you.
Yeah, absolutely.
You're welcome.

(01:26:13):
You're welcome anytime, myfather.
I I will I will I'll shoot youthe dates.
Um we're gonna we're gonna gosay hello.
But she she said tell you hello.
And I I was trying to uh I wastrying to uh tell her that she
needed to come out the whiskey.
And uh I was like and you I waslike you just need to come out
and like you know you don't haveto pay anything.
Just come out and see us.
And uh, you know, we we can wellI mean we don't mind if you
throw hundred dollar bills,that's fine.

(01:26:34):
Um but the problem with withbeing blind is you don't know if
they're ones or hundreds, youjust you know you just have to
hope.
So I can help you with that.
Yeah, I know.
That's well now I've there is anapp on the phone uh that will
read it for the blind, but uhthat's amazing.
Who who has who has time to pullthe phone out?
I know.

SPEAKER_03 (01:26:49):
Right, right.

Uh but anyway, but uh it's a true pre you know
pleasure and privilege.
And I just want to say, I mean,what an amazing you know career
you you have and continue tohave, and what what a what a
sort of a font of knowledge.
And and uh I just I justappreciate the time so much.

SPEAKER_02 (01:27:08):
Oh, thank you.
I I've been so blessed.
You know, I'm just my my careerin life has been beyond my
wildest dreams.
I I look at my wife sometimesand I'm just like, man, for a
kid from the suburbs of Houstondone okay.

You have done, you've done, you've done really
well, and and I think it's sogreat.
Uh and you know, uh the thingis, I mean, you know, being
where you are uh in in in LA andin Burbank and everything, you
know, I've I've um I've alwaysI've always said you know it's
about being where things arehappening.
And uh when you put when youhave the talent and you have the

(01:27:42):
right heart and the right um youknow the right sort of work
ethic, uh it then then you youput yourself where things are
happening, good things willhappen.
And uh I think that's I thinkthat really is true, and it's
it's certainly been true for me.
Um I always I've always justsort of lucked my way into being
in the right room and And I'vealways been blessed to be around

(01:28:02):
people smarter than I am andlearn and learn something.
So that's great.

SPEAKER_02 (01:28:06):
Yeah.
Always try to be the leasttalented person.
Yeah.

Well, you know, when you do that, it sure makes
it makes your life a lot easier.
That's right, right.

SPEAKER_02 (01:28:14):
Well, you know, we just keep showing up and try to
be a service.
That's right.
And one and we'll good thingshappen.

That's right.
One day, uh, one of us will be arock star.
I think it's gonna be you.
I well, I don't know.
I I envisioned a day whereyou're like 85 and uh you you
you uh you're just yelling atthe kids to get off your lawn
and holding your holding holdingyour Grammy in one hand and the
uh platinum record in the other.
So that's I love you, Dusty.

(01:28:42):
Thank you, my friend.

SPEAKER_02 (01:28:43):
Love you too, Joey.
I'm looking forward to uh moremusical adventures together.

Absolutely, and we'll we'll try to keep out of
jail.
Cool.

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