Episode 4: Lucy Kalantari on Grammy-Nominated Closet Recordings, Children’s Music, Dolby Atmos, and Keeping Curiosity Alive

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joey Stuckey (00:00):
Welcome to the Stuck on Sound Podcast.
As always, we bring youinteresting people to learn from
and be inspired by.
And uh we we think of ourpodcast is for nerds by nerds.
And today I have my good friend,Lucy Kalantari, and she is
absolutely fabulous in so manyways, and you're gonna find out

(00:20):
all about them right now.
Lucy, thanks for coming on.
I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 (00:23):
Oh, you're so kind.
Thank you so much for having me,Joey.
How's it going?

Oh, listen, I can't complain, my friend.
I really cannot.
I mean, I I mean I guess Icould, but I but but you know,
I'll tell you, my wife, my wifesays the more I complain, the
more beatings there are.
So there has to, we have tostay, we have to stay positive.

SPEAKER_02 (00:39):
Um curve the complaints, got it.
Absolutely.

She she manages expectations, is what she does.
She but she actually, you know,we've been married uh 23 years
of this this year.
Oh wonderful.

SPEAKER_05 (00:51):
Congratulations.

Yeah, yeah.
Thank you.
And uh the the the one thingwhen we were on uh I was on tour
in Hawaii uh in 2004, and uh Iwanted to swim with the
dolphins, and um so Jen Jenniferwasn't really interested in
doing that.
She said, Oh, you can do it,that's fine.
And of course, you know, as ablind person, I um I realized
that trying to swim with a bunchof other people and me not be

(01:13):
able to see where I was goingwas not really an optimal
situation.
So I said, look, all I want todo is pet the dolphin, feed him
some fish, stay in the shallows,and you you tell me about the
dolphin, and I'll pay him my 300bucks or whatever.
And uh the the young lady thatwas the dolphin trainer, um, my
wife was reading a magazine, notpaying any attention, and I
asked her, I said, How do you,you know, how do you get the

(01:34):
dolphin to you know do what youwant and and and not be cruel or
whatever?
And she said, Oh, well, when weuh when the dolphin does what we
want, we we reward it, and whenhe doesn't, we ignore the
undesirable behavior.
And my wife heard that, and sonow when when I misbehave, she
ignores me when I'm gonna getfished.

(01:55):
So that's how it goes.

SPEAKER_03 (01:57):
Learn from the dolphins, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, you know, that's just it.
I speaking, I want to, I wantto, I want to talk about so many
things with you, you know.
I always want to uh I've we'veknown each other for quite some
time and and had a chance to tovisit, but you know, oftentimes
we're running around like crazypeople during Grammy Week, and
we, you know, uh so there's somany things that I don't know
about you that I want to sharewith people.

(02:20):
And I always like to start withthe origin story because I think
it's so fascinating.
So how did you decide, hey, I'mgonna do music for a living?
Like what what was that journeylike and when did you start?

SPEAKER_03 (02:31):
Oh, oh man, that's a I don't I don't know.
Um it's one of those thingswhere where music has always
been part of my life, you know,since I was itty bitty, I I only
remember having just sound in myhead.
Just hearing, just alwayshearing music, always hearing

(02:51):
sound, singing, um, making stuffup on the fly.
Um and it was, I guess, uh whenI was living, I was a little
girl in Dominic Republic, and umI just started really playing
more piano and and doing morethings, like it just sort of
becoming something more concreterather than this abstract thing.

(03:12):
And um yeah, when it was time togo, I guess, to college, I was
just like, this is what I'mdoing, duh.
Like there was just like no,like I had no other concept of
like, what do you want to do?
It's just like, well, music, ofcourse.

SPEAKER_04 (03:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (03:28):
And so I don't know if that makes so it's like I
don't think there's like abeginning or an end.
It was just always there, andit's just like it was just m
waiting for me to say it outloud, you know?

Yeah, no, that makes total sense to me because
um, well, as a blind person, Imean, you know, sound is that
way for me in the sense thatI've always been a bit obsessed
with it and um uh alwaysinterested in how things sound
and why they sound the way theysound and and that kind of
thing.
And so I I get that.
I I didn't really know that Iwanted to be a musician for a

(04:00):
while because uh both my parentswere music, it was a huge part
of our our household, soundslike it was yours as well.
And um, you know, it was alwaysit was always there for comfort
and for and for joy and forcelebration and that sort of
thing.
But uh my early life was as abrain tumor survivor was really
focused on you know survival.
So I didn't really have a visionof you know what I wanted to do
later.
But it is interesting that youknow it sounds like both of us

(04:23):
have had a similar journey inthe sense that uh I've never
actually had another job besidesdoing audio or music.
That's that's since I was oldenough to get paid, that's what
I've done.

SPEAKER_03 (04:35):
That's amazing.
I can't say it was like that inentirely, but it was just like
um, because I did do many otherthings even after studying um
music, like I did webdevelopment for a while for some
reason.
And I did like just other thingsthat find their way, you know,
help me pay the bills andthings.
But somehow, as these things go,because nothing is linear,

(04:58):
right?
All of these odd jobs that Iwould do suddenly played a role
in my music career.
So, like, say for example, theweb development stuff, like you
know, back in the day we webuild our own websites right
using HTML and doing all thesethings, and it turned out that
of course, like duh, I'mbuilding my own um site and my

(05:20):
own stuff to promote my musicand do these other things, and
so they all kind of helped eachother.
You know, I had to do somedatabases um for another
company, and so voila, thatdatabase helped me when I was
working in post-production tohelp them organize their stuff.
So it's just like I don't know,one thing kind of leads you to

(05:42):
another, and and um becausethings aren't linear, you just
never know where that road isgoing to take you.

Yeah, and you know what's interesting to me, and
and and I guess this is sort ofmy next question phrased in a in
a conversational way, but theum, you know, I I always think
of you as an artist for somereason, and so and I know that
you obviously are one, but uhrecently I know, and I don't
know if this is a recentdevelopment or you've always
done it, but you've been doing alot of producing as well.

(06:08):
So, I mean, when when you wentto school, what was your what
was your thought there?
Like what were you did you studycomposition or what was your
initial thought of how you wouldinteract in the business?

SPEAKER_03 (06:18):
Um, I did study composition and I studied
production.
Um we had a pretty unique andinteresting program at the time
uh that was called StudioComposition.
Nice.
So um so there was productioninvolved with with uh you know
refining your composing skillsand all the music skills that
comes with that.
So um I really took to thestudio right away.

(06:41):
I I really it was you know outof necessity and and just sort
of like curiosity and me wantingto do more, so sneaking into the
music building, you know, lateat night, trying to make sure
that the that the securitywouldn't catch me when I was in
the studio, so that you knowthey they like do a a walk by,
and if you stay really quietwhen they would walk by, then

(07:03):
they would just like walk by thestudio and then you would just
resume and stay there.
Oh yeah, I remember thosenights, it was so so great.
And then it turned out thatbecause I was so like immersed
in it, like I didn't think muchof it.
I didn't think like I am goingto be an engineer.
It's just like this is what Ineed to do to make the music and
capture the ideas that I have inmy head.

(07:24):
And then I started helping otherpeople with their stuff and
recording recitals and um andthen uh eventually the last
year, my senior year in college,I became the chief engineer for
all of the studios.
And that was not what Iexpected.
I often think about that,especially in recent times, how

(07:45):
um, you know, had he not had thethe the professor not done that,
I wonder how different I wouldhave viewed myself.
Because I didn't see myself aslike, you know, the best or
anything like that, you know,and I I certainly still don't.
But like at at the studio and atthe time he just had so much it
was just such a such a nod ofjust like and you know, I was

(08:09):
one of what two women, you know,of like and I'm talking of the
entire program at that point whodid a lot of studio work.
So like um, so it was justreally cool to think of that
because I remember that beingsuch a pivotal moment for me.
It's like, oh, I can do this.
Yeah, yeah.

(08:29):
Like it never, you know, again,like it never I just thought it
was like as a necessity, and andand so here I am.
So I did um I didn'tconsistently after after
college, I wasn't um a full-timeengineer all the time, it was
just sort of in and out, again,kind of weaving different jobs.
I worked in post-production fora long time, and um, and I would

(08:51):
toggle between admin and um someaudio work and composition and
stuff.
So it's like it was so it waspretty wacky, but again, like uh
all those things supported me indifferent ways, where today I
get to like have this kind ofbird eye view of all the
different things, all thedifferent ways those different

(09:11):
jobs can have made my career asit is today.

Yeah, yeah, and that it's it's true because the
you just never know where thingsare gonna take you, but it is
even even for someone, and wewant to we're gonna talk about
this in more detail in a moment,but you know, someone who has
the kind of of a wonderful trackrecord you've got with some
Grammys here, and and and whichis uh you know an insanely
difficult thing to accomplish.
Um and and you know, it's itstill is kind of a gig economy

(09:39):
in the sense that you know ifyou want to do new music and
audio full time, you do have towear a lot of different hats.
I mean, it it really is, youknow, it's as I have never been
able to um fully support onehabit or the other.
I've had to sort of do you knowmultiple things to to make to
make it all work.
And and the and I, you know, II've gotten to the studio

(09:59):
business partly because it's mynatural habitat, as it were.
And uh and but also because as ablind person, you know, with the
initial challenge before I hadpeople that I could employ,
before I was married, thechallenge for me was how do I
get to the gig as a blindperson, you know, there was no
Uber.
This is this is many, many yearsago.
Um so it was I was like, oh, Ineed people to come to me and

(10:22):
them not think it's odd.
So I'll I'll have a studio, theyhave to come to me anyway.
That's normal.
So that's kind of you know Ilove that.
That was the that was the masterplan.
Um and and one of the problems Ihave, and I don't know if you
face something similar to thisat all, but one of the problems
I have is that uh you you youyou get in the production mode
of being someone's producer andtheir engineer, and you you
know, you're slamming these youknow these projects out, and you

(10:43):
look back and then you go, oh mygod, it's been nine months since
I've done any of my own music.
Like I got this business to bean artist, and like there's you
know, the the studio the theproducer pays for my artist
habit.
So it's like you know, um, butit it's funny how time just like
rushes by when you get in thatmode of does of cranking things
out.
Do you I mean I guess you knowthe the thing that interests

(11:08):
interests me with differentpeople, um I always wonder how
how different or how similar weall are.
So you are uh and I think thisis an interesting thing we
should we should focus on.
You were one of two one of twowomen in your program.
Um and you know, I'm used tothat kind of uh lopsided numbers
because typically I'm the onlyblind person in a program or

(11:30):
something like that.
Um so I I have been there inthat in and I think you talking
about that moment ofencouragement where your
professionals say, hey, this isthis is uh something that you
need to do.
Um I believe you can do it andand you're going to do it, and
so yeah, you know, here you go,here's the keys, get going.
Um but do you do you also as aproducer do you suffer from the

(11:53):
horrible affliction ofmicrophone lust?
Because I have a bit of aproblem and may need
intervention.

SPEAKER_03 (12:02):
That is hilarious.
There was a time, actually, notvery long ago, where I was doing
a lot of um shopping.
And like, and my son was justlike, Why do you need more
microphones, mom?
I'm just like, I have a gap andI need to fill the gap.

(12:23):
Absolutely.
And like, I mean, it's not I Ilike to consider myself, we've
always kind of went a littlehigh, but like, you know, I like
to consider myself somewhatpractical.
So like I think I have a prettyI have a pretty good, you know,
gate of things.
It's not, it's not totally outof control, but you know, that

(12:43):
nothing says I'm not done yet.
I also just moved into my newstudio.
Oh, nice.
Yes.
Um, so up until now, I have beenworking out of closets.
And like, you know, when I livedin Brooklyn, I had one of my big
closet actually like um set witha microphone and stuff.

(13:04):
Like, my husband actually helpedme um set a uh little microphone
input so it would go through thewalls so that I wouldn't have to
run it like under the door oranything like that.
Yeah, yeah.
So um we did all these things,but man, I'm I'm so curious with
what the landlady thought.
Like after this, she's like,what is this thing that she left
here?
What are you doing?

(13:24):
Uh she was very Brooklyn.
And then like um, and you know,but it was so funny, you know,
and then I moved to we bought ahouse upstate, and then so
there's more space.
Um and this one I took a uhspare bedroom, and then you
know, a pretty nice closet.
And that one I could I I treatedacoustically and recorded stuff,

(13:46):
and so I recorded two Grammynominated albums in this in this
house, like I love it, and andthat was just you know from my
closets and my setup again, likeit's acoustically treated and
all that.
And then so in the meantime, Iwas also building my studio in
the basement, which had gottenflooded, all this stuff.

(14:07):
So I had to do all these thesetreatment things.
So now finally, um, just at theend of 2025 and beginning of
2026, I finally started movingin and just started working.
I don't even have furniture yetright now, Joey.
I have just my seat, andoccasionally, like when I have

(14:30):
like okay, I have to track bass,I had to track uh drummer, I'm
like, okay, we got it.
Here's a chair, here's a thingfor you.
Uh, this is all we got, andthat's amazing shelf.
But you know, I'm working today.
So that said, going back to youroriginal question about the
microphones.

SPEAKER_00 (14:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (14:46):
Well, now, you know, we have some vacancy, we got
some more space.

So absolutely, you need to fill that space.
My my wife is so kind to me whenit comes to my problem with
microphones and also guitars.
I mean, it's uh, you know, uh,I've got a bit of that collector
spirit in my heart.
To be honest with you, and I'm II wonder if I'll ever get a
chance to tell her in person,but uh, a big Sylvia Massey fan,

(15:12):
and I'm my goal is to have moremicrophones than Sylvia Massey.
That's just like when I die, Iwant that on my tombstone.
I had more microphones thanSylvia Massey.
Um so, but I mean, but inreality, I mean, you know, for
because I am such a nerd and anda technical uh person and also
uh you know a spiritual personat the same time, which is why I

(15:34):
love what we do.
I think it's it's the marriageof both those things.
But but um, you know, themicrophones are our ear
replacements, you know, and anduh there are times where you
know a$75 microphone is what youwant, and sometimes when a
$10,000 microphone is what youwant.
And it's you know, it's it it'sI think it's all about for me,
you know, it's all about gettingthe sound I want the quickest,

(15:54):
and um, and and and you knowwhat what is it gonna take me to
do that.
But um, but I do, I like I said,I've got a bit of a problem.
Um I remember we were I wasassisting someone as an engineer
um in Chicago, and they said tome, uh this Royer ribbon mic, uh
the 122, which is uh uh you knowhas has phantom power, um, they

(16:15):
said it's it's as good or betterthan the 121.
I was like, I I highly doubtthat.
And I was like, I'll be thejudge of that.
And so uh we started using it,and I was like, okay, I'm
convinced.
And uh I was so I just keptgoing on and on and on about
this microphone, how great itwas.
And so finally my wife came backand said, You can stop talking
about it.
I just ordered you one, so it'syou're you're all good.

SPEAKER_02 (16:37):
Wow! That's amazing.

She is all I mean, you know, the only thing that
her her only fetish is shoes,and uh so I support that.
Um, and she supports themicrophone and the guitars, and
she never has said to me, uh,which I find really impressive,
you you do not need anotherguitar.
You do not need anothermicrophone.
She has never said that to me.
And I I one of the many reasonsI love her.

(16:59):
So if you ever need someone toencourage you, I'll give you my
wife's number and you can say,Hey, Jen, do I need this
telefunken?
And you she'll say, Absolutely,you you need one.

SPEAKER_03 (17:10):
So I love that.
I think my most valued, I think,um, microphone that I love so
much so dearly is my Lawson.
Um it's a tube mic.
And and what's fun about it iswhen I pair it with the LA 610,
it's very classic sounding, butthen when I switch it over and
use it with the with my focusright mic pre, it's a ISA 110.

(17:33):
Oh yeah.
You get this more modern thing,so it's like the same
microphone, and it but it haslike these beautiful, these two
distinctive tones from my setupthat I'm like, what do I want
today?
You know, absolutely.
And I love that that we couldn'tdo that.

Well, I I feel I'm like a bad scientist.
Like I'm I'm picking mics andamps and guitars and you know,
whatever, you know.
But I would I by the way, I lovethe LA610.
That's a great, that's a greatpre.
I got two of those suckers.
Um the um the the thing that I Iguess what's interesting to me
is like, do you have a becauselike I said, you're you know,

(18:08):
you're you're producing records,you're engineering records,
you're you're you have your ownartistry.
So what what is it that inspiresyou to make your art?
Um and how many instruments doyou play?
Because I know you play somepiano, but I also have heard
some mighty funny ukulele plays.
So or funkaleley as you calledit.

SPEAKER_03 (18:27):
Funkaleley, yeah.
It's so fun.
Um, yeah, I play ukulele.
I don't play, um, I mean, youdidn't ask me what I don't play,
so I guess I shouldn't answerthat, right?
Well, you can.
I play I play ukulele.
The thing is, like, becausethere's a little bit of a gap
for me in the guitar world, Itend to get really creative with

(18:48):
the ukulele.
I'm just like, well, you know, Idon't do that, but what if I run
the ukulele through this andthen going and then suddenly
I'll have like all thesetextures that are pretty
unusual.
Now, granted, I I did recentlyfinally get my guitar and I've
been playing a little bit andlike here's some electric
guitar.
I'm just like thing is myfingers are so little that like

(19:11):
every time I would I would playguitar when I was in high school
and things, I would get sodiscouraged.
I'm like, oh I don't wanna.
But then the ukulele, uh I lovedit so so much with its bright
sound, and also like you know,because it's so small, my
fingers were were really, youknow, took to it.
So so anyway, um, yeah, sopiano, ukulele, singing, of

(19:31):
course.
And then the rest I startdabbling, right?
So I'll dabble with like cajon,you know, of course, any
percussion that I have.
Um and uh what else?
I used to play flute.
I should dabble.

You should pull that out.
You should get the flute out.
Um yeah, I I have a I have a umprofessor of mine that was very
instrumental in my um earlydevelopment, and you know, he
was very encouraging and helpfuland supportive.
And and he, you know, he he he'sa I mean he has he has a
doctorate in flute and he'sinsane.
He's just he's so good.
And you know, a doctorate doesnot make one necessarily a good

(20:06):
musician, because I I know somedoctorates that really can't
play, but the uh but he is justcrazy good.
And you know, his flute's like a$30,000 flute.
I mean, yeah, it's like yeah,it's it's but he actually
deserves it.
I mean it's like so good.
Uh I mean his tone is justridiculous.
It's like you're like, is thisreal?
Like, you know, it's like, youknow, are you sure this wasn't

(20:27):
like someone get melodyne onthis thing?
What's that?
I mean, it's it's it's just it'sjust so he's he's just
incredible.
And and uh he lives in Iowa, buthe really is an incredible
player.
So I'm a big big flute fan, youknow.
There's a lot of amazing umflute out there.
So I mean, when you when youcreate your music, I mean, does
it how how much of it is likeall you and then how many people

(20:49):
do you have to bring in, or doesthat just vary?

SPEAKER_03 (20:51):
Yeah, that totally varies.
Um, for my Lucy Calentarian, theJazz Cats band stuff, it's all
we're six musicians, we're a sexthat.
So uh my son, my son playscello, and he's so great, by the
way, having a live-in cellist.
So, like, you know, like he'sgonna come down in like an hour,
we're gonna record some cellofor something.

(21:11):
That's a good thing.
And how old is he right now?
He is 13 now.
He's been playing.

Okay, so he's he's flea labor.
Okay, good.

SPEAKER_03 (21:16):
He he's been working since he's been playing cello
since he was three, so he's beenplaying for 10 years.
Yeah, he had a tiny cello.
And um, yeah, so I've I'veliterally seen him and heard him
grow up.
I captured sound.
He's on so many recordings overthe years that it's like been
really fascinating to capturehis growing sound.

SPEAKER_04 (21:38):
Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_03 (21:39):
So um anyway, okay, and then you know, so of course
with the jazz cats I got all ofmy different musicians, drums,
um, upright bass and andclarinet and trumpet, and of
course uh me on ukulele andvoice, and then of oh, I guess
that's another instrument Ising.
Um, and then uh and you know,the the last uh and then piano,

(21:59):
of course.
So Occasionally there's piano.
I don't always go lean so farwith the piano on on um my jazz
cat stuff since I don't travelwith a keyboard because then it
like makes the the Oh it makesit ridiculous.
So um but you know I don't Ialso don't shy away with it.
It's just like you need no whatthis needs?
A piano.
So okay.

(22:19):
Um but in for the most part Ilet I want the song to dictate,
you know, like the I feel likethe these songs are a living
entity.
Right.
You know, all of these thingsfor me, um, so I I still find
like my role as an engineer,like I'm a producer first, okay.
Engineer second, you know, solike I I love like capturing

(22:43):
sound, capturing it's just likeeverything I do is is for the
sake of to make this song alive,you know, so like that is
tantamount to everything.
That's like the the number onething.
So so I will do everything in mypower to make it beautiful and
wonderful and great.
So like that that's how I seeit.

(23:03):
So like you know, if somethingneeds, you know, a little
sprinkle here, let's do that.
If it needs the cello, if itneeds this, that, or the other.
So, so um also it depends on theartist.
So, like I work with manydifferent artists who um, you
know, depending on their budgetsas well, like if they can hire
other musicians, and I alwaysencourage that, of course.

(23:24):
So we'll do a combo maybe oflike, you know, programmed drums
and you know, a real you know,guitar player or something like
that.
Right.
So like you know, so it alldepends.
Everything is quite fluid basedon budget, on needs, on sound,
and making sure that the the youknow song comes alive.
We gotta honor the song.

And you're right, the song is is the top priority.
I mean, that's that's alwaysgotta be.
It's interesting because one ofthe keynotes that I give um uh
for the past several years issomething called how to avoid
sound blindness or return tocritical listening.
And the it's a kind of amouthful to say, but it's but
but really what it is is um youshouldn't be trapped into
thinking you have to doanything.

(24:06):
Like know what you've got firstbefore you start making
decisions.
You know, some people think, oh,well, if I don't put 10k boost
on the top snare head, it's nota real snare, or if I you know,
there's all these things, or oh,if I don't quantize everything,
you know, that's you know,everything's gotta be time
aligned, or you know, and I I mymy position is before we had all
these lovely tools, there are alot of wonderful records that

(24:28):
were made.
Um if you if you need if youneed that stuff, that's fine,
that's great.
Um, but if you if you don't, youmay not.
You need to listen to what yougot first.
And I think you know, peoplehave kind of gotten to this
trick of looking at graphs andlooking at meters and looking at
waveforms and making visualdecisions for audio.
Um and and I think you know, Iobviously cannot do that.

(24:48):
Um, and I'm totally jealous ofpeople that can, but I just
think that there's also power inyou know letting your ear pick
what's gonna happen next.
And that's really it sounds likethat's your that's that sounds
like you're you're in that samethought of that's one 100%.

SPEAKER_03 (25:01):
In fact, um, so one of the things like I I don't
like being in a box, right?
Like I don't like feeling so umyou know so rigid about certain
things.
I mean we need we needboundaries, right, to kind of
help us stay focused, but alsolike again, honor the song and
like and so my my studio iscalled Joy Sound Lab.

(25:25):
Oh, I love it.
And and the you know, I focus onchildren's music and children's
media, and the idea is to comein with a sense of play and with
like a laboratory, you come inexperimenting, right?
So I'm experimenting with sound,experimenting with different
things.
Ooh, what if you do?
Those are my favorite words, islike if you start with what if
dot dot dot.
Like what if I you know, andthat's that that kind of

(25:49):
curiosity, that kind of thing iswhat feeds the next thing, which
feeds the next thing.
Next thing you know, you have ahuge song.
And it's just like, but it comesfrom there, from honoring the
sound and just sort of lettingcuriosity and that playfulness
lead the way.

That is always important, I think, with any art
is to keep that curiosity andand to keep that.
And I think I think the otherthing is, you know, giving
yourself permission to dosomething that's not traditional
or outside the norm.
You know, people look at youlike you're crazy, like why why
would you do that?
Well, I mean, you know, a lot ofneat sounds have have come out
of people doing weird stuff.

(26:26):
I mean, you know.

SPEAKER_03 (26:26):
Yeah, like the ukulele thing, you know, just
like, you know, oh, they can putthe ukulele through discepts.
Whatever.
I'm rock and roll, dude.

That's right.
That's what there's I think yournext album should be death metal
ukulele.
You should just, you know, and Iyou know it's a I I but do you
ever feel because you knowyou've you've uh you've been
you've got these wonderful umwonderful accolades to to um to
recognize your hard work withwith the Grammys, and I think

(26:59):
that's absolutely amazing andthank you and such a and such a
privilege.
And um do you it sounds like youhave chosen you know to to to
focus, as you said, on on sortof children's music.
Do you do you like to I mean doyou consider that like a uh any
kind of barrier?
I mean, do you do you alwaysfocus on children's music or do

(27:20):
you get outside of that?
Or what's how how does thatwork?
I mean, is it because as agenre, I mean, it's you know,
I'm I don't have children, so Idon't I don't get a chance to
see what's going on in that inthat genre very often.
You know, what are what are thewhat kind of what are the what
are the rules for making aliving doing that?
I mean, how does that work?
Because, you know, I youprobably don't do radio
campaigns, or or I guess Iassume not.

(27:41):
I mean, I don't know.
That's that how does that workfrom a marketing standpoint?

SPEAKER_03 (27:44):
I mean, it's uh it's such an interesting and very
niche genre.
And like, and what's mostinteresting about it from like
marketing and you know, fansperspective is that your fans
grow out of your music becausethey're kids.
Oh, that's terrible.
So it just like, but then theyremember remember you fondly,
you know, so like you have toconstantly be engaging in some

(28:08):
way or another, but also likeyou know, music lives on, which
is an amazing thing.
So then the next generation, youknow, picks it up.
So um I've been I'm sopassionate about children's
music and children's media.
Um, there's something about it,you know, like I did a lot of
alt rock and and you know, musicfor adults for a very long time

(28:31):
for most of my life.
Uh is that true now?
How old am I?
Huh?
Most would that be most?
Yeah, still most.
And then um, but then like whenI switched over, now I did do
dabbling in post-production.
I wrote some stuff for like forsome cartoon things, and and
that's like it was joyful.
Like I grew up playing, youknow, watching a lot of cartoons

(28:53):
and all these things, and evenin my adult life, I watched a
lot of cartoons.
Like, there's and and I alsolike owned a lot of children's
books.
This is before my son was born.
So that was already a thing, andI don't know why, Joey, till the
like, why is it that I didn'teven just try then?
But it's just like I'm serious,I gotta do this adult customer

(29:15):
music, you know, burning on thepiano.
And then I started doing kids'music, and I'm like, this is the
best thing ever.
What have I been doing all mylife?
And like it just fit like aglove.
Like uh, I mean, uh, if you youknow, I'm like a walking
cartoon, people just are losinglosing here.
So it's just you know, it alljust made sense.
The moment I stepped, I took onestep there.

(29:37):
I'm like, oh, I'm home.
This is where I should be.
So you know, and I startedwriting for Dora, um, the the
cartoon.
They did a relaunch a few yearsago, and like again, it's just
the cartoons and like audio andall this stuff, and and that's
that's where it feels reallygreat.
It feels so at home to me.

Well, you know, I'll tell you, it's probably the
most important market there isbecause if you give children, I
you know, as a really sick childuh that almost died a bunch of
times, I mean, you know, the theaffirmational, the
inspirational, the joyful wereall very important things to be
surrounded by.
And um, and and kids, you know,are smarter than people give

(30:20):
them credit for.
Um, and you know, to to starttheir life with something
accessible and positive andjoyful is really important.
And so, I mean, to me, thatseems like an amazing honor and
and and responsibility to to dothat, to have that, to, to have
that first that first chance ata young mind, you know.

(30:41):
And and and that, I think that'samazing.
And I'm I have to tell you thatum, you know, I'm 40-something,
that's all we needed to say.
And um I I still love SesameStreet, and uh and I still have
um some of my early childhoodalbums.
I you know they're vinyl, so Idon't really play them because I

(31:02):
don't want to ruin them, but Iwas surprised to find that my
favorite children's album of alltime, which is called Bert and
Ernie Sing Along, uh, is oniTunes and I have it on my
phone.
Oh I love that.
And when there are days that Idon't feel well, um uh because I
have some chronic issues fromthe brain tumor, but uh there
are days that I go to work andgo, oh my god, I'm just gonna go

(31:23):
humblily down.
And so you put that album out.
I put that on, my friend.
I'm still playing that record.
I'm still playing that record.

SPEAKER_03 (31:31):
Oh my gosh, that that song, isn't that does that
album have the song the L song?
Like uh It does La La La LaLight post.

SPEAKER_00 (31:40):
That's right, that's right.
A lump in my opening is anotherlovely line.
Yeah.
Uh, so good.
Yeah, la la la la linoleum.
That's what Bert sings.

SPEAKER_03 (31:51):
It's so good.
See, so like, and this is thethe beauty about children's
music.
It's just like, yes, see,remember how I said like they
remember you fondly?

SPEAKER_04 (32:01):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (32:01):
This is the imprint this music leaves.
Yes.
So like you're doing this thing,like so all these musicians and
and composers for for kids mediaand kids music, it's just like
you're you're leaving an imprintand you're helping shape the
minds of our future leaders andour future, you know.
So it's just like it's a hugeresponsibility.

(32:22):
It is a beautifulresponsibility.
And um, and so I love that I getto to do that and I get to do
this for a living and and reallyhelp other artists, you know, as
I produce other records for forother artists, you know, I get
to help them lift their voicesuh for our kids, you know.

I think that's really incredible.
Now, now do you I mean again,see, this is such a different
you know field than I'm in.
Um I mean I I would dochildren's music if if someone
asked me to.
I mean, I just it just hadn't,you know, just hadn't been
asked.
But um the uh I guess thequestion is like do you do you
get a chance to tour and goperform for kids?
I know you did a really coolexhibit um uh in in audio for

(33:04):
and I want to talk about that uhfor kids, but do you get a
chance to like perform for themor how does that work?
Because I do have a bit of aperforming bug that I get
restless if I if it's been toolong since I've been on stage.

SPEAKER_03 (33:14):
I know it gets so wacky, right?
Um but yes, yes.
Um actually, where did we play?
We did um so my band is calledLucy Collentarian the Jazz Cats.
So when I'm not producing otherrecords, like I'm I'm on tour
with my cats or picking up myson from school.
And then um No, I still have todo that anyway, whether or not

(33:35):
I'm I'm like producing records,like I gotta pause.
It's like such an interestinglike time.
Oh yeah, you know, um that's howit is.
I I love it.
And um, so yeah, we we playdifferent festivals all around
the country.
So like we did uh the NewOrleans Jazz Fest last year.
That was so cool and Nomad JazzFest.
And um, and then of course we'vedone uh Austin City Limits a few

(33:58):
times.
We did uh Lollapalooza, so theyhave all these kids stages set
up for for um for kids andfamilies, and then as well, of
course, you know, other summerfestivals.
I used to do a lot of um uhwhatchamacallit libraries.
Once I moved out of Brooklyn, II kind of slowed down some of

(34:21):
that and have been doing moreand more production.
Um but but yeah, so I'll do likewe do the the bigger kind of
festival shows and things likethat these days.
And uh what did we do?
Uh actually when my last the thelatest album, um so Graciendo is
an all-Spanish album for kids.

(34:42):
And um when that one released,we went on tour on the West
Coast.
We went to Oregon and that wasreally fun, just like five days,
um, five to six days we didseveral festivals and like other
museums and things like that.
That was just so fun.
It's just a whole you know,playing, you're not just playing

(35:02):
for kids, you play for families.
So, um, you know, and it'ssomething that again, the power
of music uh is something whereyou can give tools, like I see
it as giving tools to parentsand entertainment and and stuff
to live by for the kids.
So, like the tools for theparents are things that they can
maybe it's a a dialogue, right?

(35:23):
How to about what uh what thissong is about, you know.
I have a song called Um Roundand Round, and it's about
letting go.
And it's just you know, that's avery difficult thing and
resilience.
So it's just like sometimes youget very sad, right?
Life goes round and round, sure.
And um, and so how do you getup?
You have to get up, dust it off,and keep going.

(35:46):
And so, you know, so you getthese opportunities to to start,
you know, maybe some difficultconversations, and also you have
the opportunity of getting thekids up to move, right?
Getting up and dancing, so likeyou cover the full spectrum of
kids growing up, and getting todo that live is just a treat.

SPEAKER_04 (36:09):
Oh, I bet.

SPEAKER_03 (36:10):
Um, I mean, it is wonderful.
We played uh the Performing ArtsCenter in Virginia, Fairfax,
Virginia, um just where whenwere we there in March?
And I that was wild.
We played for a thousand kids.

SPEAKER_04 (36:24):
Wow.

SPEAKER_03 (36:24):
Um, so there were like several different schools
who came to this show.
Right.
And so it was just so wild.
So I'm like, I have a lot ofcall and response, you know,
it's like old jazz for um withuh lyrics for kids, right?
So it's still like you'rehearing jazz sounds, you know,
really fast swing and umdifferent things, you know, horn
arrangements, the whole thing.

(36:45):
And so there's a lot of call andresponse.
So you hear the kid, I'm like,kids, all right, sing after me,
you know, that that the andthey're like a thousand kids, ah
it's like it's so energetic andit's so wonderful.
Um, and so it's like, you know,and all the kids, they just
they're just so engaged fromfrom beginning to end.

(37:07):
And they come out with thebiggest smiles on their faces,
and um and I love it when I cangive them like uh I I try to
make sure that there's stuffthat they can like leave with,
you know, just like a physicalthing, right?
Because like people don't reallybuy that many CDs anymore and
things like that.
So like uh there's a I oftenclose the the shows with my song

(37:29):
balloon, and um, and so I havethese like branded balloons,
purple, of course, because myhair is purple, so it's like
it's purple balloons with uhLucy Kalantari and the Jazz Cats
logo on it, and so all the kidsare like you know, bumping
balloons, we call uh keepyuppie.
So like they have to they haveto like bounce the balloons.
I'm like, this is not myballoon, not your balloon, it's

(37:51):
our balloon.
We all have to stick it up inthe air, and so they're like up
there, and then at the end ofthe show, they each get to take
home their own balloon so theyhave something physical to take,
you know, to take home with themso they can remember that day
forever.

Oh that is so cool.

SPEAKER_03 (38:06):
That is what a show is like with Lucy Collantarian.

That sounds amazing, and you know, they have
they have so much energy.

SPEAKER_03 (38:12):
Oh, it's so much energy, you know.

Yeah, yeah.
I bet you go home and and go, Ineed a nap.
Totally, like, totally, totally.

SPEAKER_02 (38:21):
Yeah.

But they they no, they really are energetic.
It's interesting because um I Ican't really observe it uh uh
visually, but a lot of times Iused I would go into the school
system and you know, um and playand uh and talk about um you
know the the the what I callliving a successful life of
intention, which is you know,doing doing what is meaningful

(38:44):
to you and doing what makes youhappy and doing what the what's
you know what's you know givesto others and and also gives to
you and all these and so the thethe overarching message is you
know I'm a blind brain tumorsurvivor, I've had a lot of
challenges, still a lot ofchallenges, but if I can do it,
you can do it.
And so um it was interesting.
Uh a lot of times they'd ask meto do, you know, high school
kids is is pretty easy.

(39:05):
You can really you can reallyget into the weeds on on some
some stuff there, and you know,they're going through so many
changes.
But with the with the littlekids, you know, uh the
preschoolers and stuff likethat, obviously I have to
simplify uh way down.
Um but what's interesting is thethe little kids uh are all so
enthusiastic uh and just want tosing and jump around and you

(39:27):
know have so much fun.
If if if you encourage them toclap, they do, and they you
know, and then when the kids getabout 12, they they start
thinking, they start going, oh Iwant to participate, but I'm not
sure I look cool doing this.
Right, right.
And eventually, you know,eventually you you wear them
down to the until theyparticipate.
That's what I do.
I was like, oh come on, I can Ican't see you, but I can hear

(39:50):
that you're not singing.
It's like, you know, and so uhbut it's so interesting to to
watch that sort of shift.
And then, you know, when theyget about 15, they don't care
again.
They're you know they're they'reinterested in it, they're
they're they'll play with you.
But it's it's fascinating to tobe in the market you're in.
And I want to talk about yourlove for sound, um, which is
something I didn't realize thatyou were you were obsessed with

(40:11):
when you were growing up, whichwas very, very cool, uh, and the
wonderful exhibit you did thatwas sort of three-dimensional uh
experience.
Um tell me about that, because Iwanted so bad to come and visit
that, but I couldn't make it.
But it was was it it was was itin a library or a museum?
I can't remember.

SPEAKER_03 (40:28):
It was at the museum, the children's museum of
Manhattan.

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (40:32):
And uh with some help from Jenilec and Apogee and
um Dolby Atmos, as well as uh WeAre Moving the Needle.
Uh we I can't believe we pulledthis off.
It was amazing.
So I went, um I set myself outto explore what um Dolby Atmos

(40:54):
was all about, right?
That was like the whole rage.
Everybody get a get in anatmosphere, get in an
atmosphere, right?
So I'm like, but I'm inchildren's music.
Like what what benefit is there?
Like the kids aren't gonna belike, oh wow, listen to this
beautiful surround sound.
Like, you know, it just like umso I went to um the AES show

(41:14):
when it was in New York City in2023, and then um so I with that
mission, I was just like, allright, I'm going to learn what
Golby Atmos is, why is itimportant, and how can, you
know, how can this benefit kids?

SPEAKER_04 (41:34):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (41:35):
And like, man, can I tell you when you enter a space
with a question, all theanswers, like you kind of like
you're a magnet for answers, youknow, because like you have that
intention, you know, you stateyour intention in your head
before you step fo step foot,and then suddenly you start
scanning everything.
Because that mission was likewild.

(41:56):
I learned so much from beingthere, and I said, Okay, I get
it.
But and that and the thing was,all the things that they were
showing at AES at the time werejust music that was already
recorded, um, already mixed, andthey're like, here it is, and
uh, you know, readapted, right?

(42:17):
So re-released, mixed andatmosphere.
And I'm like, okay, I meanthat's fine.
Why is the snare all the wayover there?
You know, like that's so weird.
That's like that makes no senseto me.
And like, um, and that honestly,it wasn't that enjoyable like
that, because it's just like,you know, there's one one spot
where whatever.
It was just like it was it wasbizarro, and then but then I

(42:42):
started to understand like whatif see, remember what I said
what if you start writing a songwith the intention of Dolby
Atmos?
Because what's happening is thatpeople are just sort of
readapting their thing that'salready been recorded and mixed,
and here it is in the Atmosrelease, right?
Right, and then like, or youknow, people go in and and

(43:05):
record their thing, it's justlike okay, now here's an Atmos
mix too.
Right.
Um but what if you go in withlike knowing that it will be you
know recorded and uh it was willbe mixed in Atmos?
What will that change?
And even for kids' music, wait aminute, what can we do to tell a

(43:28):
story for kids?
Because now we're we're doinglike immersive audio, how cool
would it be?
What if what if you know thesound that the kids hear becomes
this immersive st song storythat's like like really like
engaging in this way becauselike they have sound all the way
around them, and so you knowit's not just a song, but it's a

(43:52):
song that takes them on ajourney.
And so that's that's where mymission started.
So that's what I came out with.
From AES.
And then shortly after, um,because the universe works the
way it does, like literally afew weeks after I had gone to um
to Seville for the LatinGrammys.

(44:12):
It was there that year because asong uh and album I had
produced, I had co-produced, wasnominated.
And so I was just like, I wantto go to Seville.

SPEAKER_04 (44:21):
So I went to Latin.

SPEAKER_03 (44:23):
I went to the Latin Grammys in Seville.
And that's where I met RogerMontejano.

And one of my favorite people.

SPEAKER_03 (44:30):
And he was so great, and we I just had told him
about, you know, my AESexploration and discovery and
idea, and he's like, let's talksome more.
And so we started going andgoing and just um kind of
rehashing and and and sort ofmaking, you know, playing on
this idea.
And then he said, Let's do it.

(44:51):
And I said, Okay.
Let's go.
So I called him up, okay.
I have an idea.
How about if it's like a abedtime story that's like um,
you know, about uh like chasinga butterfly and it's like kind
of chasing dreams.
And he's like, Well, wait,because it's like at night, what
if it's a firefly?

(45:12):
Oh, even better.
Oh, yeah, okay, and that therest is history.
That is so cool.
So we we co-wrote a song calledThe Firefly.
Um in Spanish is La LucianaGaso.
There's an English version andthis and a Spanish version.
So this one was literally frombeginning all the way to Mix it.
We always had Atmos in mind.

(45:34):
And um, so in terms of how, youknow, what would it be like?
So, like you're chasing afterthis firefly, right?
It's a symbolism of chasing adream.
So you're outside, so you'repassing, like, you know, you're
you're hearing these outdoorsounds, you're passing some
water, you're passing this.
So I'm just like literallyalready thinking, I want this
water to be in here, I want thissound effect in here, but like

(45:56):
as part of the song, again, thisis not like just a a a book
being recited, right?
It's a song, and you're reallylike in this adventure.
So all the lyrics, all thethings, it was just like it was
this movement that I wanted tocreate.
And um, and so next thing Iknow, I had we had this song,
and that that's the album thatgot nominated again, recorded it

(46:19):
upstairs.
Nice, and then um, and thenafter that, I started doing just
a few a few other songs, andthose I didn't write, but I had
uh I produced for other artists.
I said, okay, these will not bewritten, they weren't written
for Atmos, but I can arrangethem for Atmos.
So then I started thinking aboutlike you know, this and that,

(46:39):
like here's how we'll we'lldeliver it.
Can you slow it down?
Let's do this.
And so I worked with theseartists so carefully and did
these arrangements, and so wewound up with four songs, four
wonderful songs that were DolbyAtmos um immersive tracks.
And um Dolby was was just like,wait, what for kids?

(47:03):
And Genelik, I I approachedGenelik, I made friends with
Genilec at uh AES and and like aanother grand party, and they're
like, You're doing what?
They're like, Well, this isinteresting.
Can you come talk about it?
And and then um I uh also asked,like, uh, do you think we could
show it to kids in the way itwas intended?

(47:23):
And then boom, we got thechildren's museum, and Genilec
jumped in and Dolby Atmos jumpedin.
So, like, it became thisexperience where it's just like
not only did they did we didthis idea pop up, right, from
the what if, but it also all theway up to realization and where
kids actually got to experiencethis with a full Atmos setup at

(47:47):
this museum, and they came andlistened to all the four songs.
It was a 17-minute experiencethat that ran every 30 minutes.
Wow, and they would come and uhwe I put some, you know, again,
they're not like audio uhexperts, right?
So I had they were all very likebedtime type songs, so like a
lot of song stories.
So I had uh paper on the floorso they could just sort of you

(48:11):
know swirl with markers andthings like that, anything, any
abstract things or drawings thatthey wanted to do, whatever they
wanted to do.
And it was so interesting, Joey.
Like the moment sound wouldstart, like the the experience
would start with, are you ready?
And then from one anotherspeaker up above, are you ready?
And then like all these soundeffects and things, they're like

(48:34):
you know, so you'd see theirfaces, like, what is this?
They're like, here's what you'regonna do, and then you know,
draw your sound, draw anythingyou feel like, and the moment
the music started, they wouldjust start drawing, and it was
just so peaceful and wonderful,and then they would pause and
just like look up, like listen,just sort of like you would see

(48:55):
that they would kind of get soengaged with the sound that they
would get lost in it, and thenthey would resume drawing.
And I had to tell some of theparents, like, don't worry, if
they stop drawing, it's notbecause they're bored, they're
listening.
Like, let them list them, likegive them space.
Yeah, and so these parentsduring this experience, Joey,
they would like, I've never seenmy kids sit down for more than

(49:19):
15, like 15 minutes ever, likeeven five minutes to like doing
just like chilling.
This is the best exhibit ever.

It it fell amazing.

SPEAKER_03 (49:31):
It was so wonderful.
Thank you for letting me liketalk so much about it.
It was such a wonderful uhexperience, and the kids just
like they just it was just sucha one-of-a-kind um moment for
them, and and they were happyand the parents were happy, and
we left with all these likereally cool c like artwork that

(49:52):
they just did.
And I I posted a bunch of it sothat they could see what um so
parents could see what what theydid.

So it was how long did the exhibit last?
I mean, I I I guess it had alimited run or how Right.

SPEAKER_03 (50:04):
Yeah, it was just the weekend.
It was during um President's Dayweekend.
Okay, and um, so it was justSaturday and Sunday, and um and
it just cycled every every 30minutes during the I mean it
sounds incredible.

I I I remember you know commenting on your post
when I saw it on Facebook orsomething, and I was like, I am
so jealous that I'm not there toexperience this.
And I think you really hit onsomething brilliant, which goes
to you know good storytelling,which you know you know, music
is storytelling, it's it'scommunication.

(50:36):
Um and that was the intention ofusing the Dolby Atmos, you know,
to its maximum potential.
And I really I really feel thesame way you do because uh I've
heard some stuff at Atmos, andI'm like, okay, you know, this
is cool, but it didn't reallylight my world on fire like I
thought it would.
Um and I think part of thereason for that is you know a
lot of people are like, well,um, we'll take these stems and

(51:00):
uh you know, we'll we're we'rewe're gonna take all these
stereo stems and just sort ofmove them around.
And um, you know, it's just notreally it's not really using the
tech in a compelling way.
Uh and and and and you're right,because it's already been mixed,
it's already been you know done,and and then there's a certain
expectation of that, and um, youknow, uh you then some people

(51:21):
are too you know a little shy ataltering it too much or from
from the stereo mix thateverybody loves.
And so there's there's all kindsof things that go into it.
So and and then of course theother problem that you expertly
uh got around by having thishappen at a museum is do you
have the space and all thespeakers?
I mean, that's like you know howhow many people have a real
Atmos system at home?

(51:42):
I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (51:43):
Yeah, exactly.
Well, what was interesting isjust like you know, so we we
spoke at NAM too about it andand we got to show adults, you
know, the full experience thattalked about like you know those
the composing of it, likeeverything that went in.
And and so in doing all of this,I also, you know, was able to
like kind of research, you know,why, you know, how will this

(52:06):
benefit families?
Because that's a again, that'swhere I started.
And one of the things is thatlike more and more cars are
coming up with um that have uhDolby Atmos.
Yeah, you know, so so you canum, you know, a lot of
listening, a lot of musiclistening happens in the car for
families when they drive, youknow, from from school or or

(52:30):
grandma's house or even likeroad trips.
So like you know, instead ofgetting the kids like on the
screen, you know, with watchingmovies, what if they listen, you
know, and I love, love, lovethat idea.
Less screens, more listening,right?
Oh yeah.
So um, and that was the thingthat's what I that was like kind
of a driving force for me, whereI'm just like, no, they're gonna

(52:51):
be able to enjoy this and thissetting.
And like I know eventually moreand more all of this, like
there'll be more systems thatsupport, you know, Atmos in all
these different ways, and uh,and I'm really excited for that.

I I you know my favorite part of it is the
height.
That's the part that I reallyenjoy the most um when I'm
listening to an Atmos mix orsomething, is you know, the the
fact that you got four speakersat the ceiling and you're you
know you're able to get someheight.
And I I just think that I thinkthat's really compelling, you
know, um, for for a lot ofthings, but especially music.
I think you said something realimportant earlier about about

(53:24):
space.
And um I think music that hasspace can can be a really
powerful uh tool on Atmos whenyou give it this this place to
live.
I mean, I would love to hear oneof my favorite records and one
one a record that was uh awatershed for me as a musician,
uh, is Miles Davis kind of blue.
I mean, that would be amazing tohear in Atmos because Miles, you

(53:47):
know, uh uh just lets thosethose notes sink in before he
plays the next one.
He's he's letting you thinkabout what he just did.
I mean, you know, it's like sothat kind of stuff is really
powerful, and and I think that'sbrilliant.
Now, is there going to be uhexhibit number two with some
more songs in Atmos?

SPEAKER_03 (54:02):
I sure hope so.
I mean, there's so many things,you know.
There I have so much music in myhead, Joey.

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (54:09):
It's crowded in there, it's so crowded, and I'm
like, I need to move faster.
And like um, it's hard to do.

SPEAKER_00 (54:15):
I mean, gosh.

SPEAKER_03 (54:16):
I'm just so um I love doing it and like and that
space, like like you said, umthat was the most the biggest um
opening for me.
Where it's just like, wow, lookat all the space we get to play
with, right?
Like that's how I see when Ithink about Avos, I'm like, wow,

(54:38):
we could do so much here, youknow.
So it's just like it feels likethis big stage, and so all the
arrangements, it's it's justlike thinking about where where
everything sits, how it willtravel.

And in fact, did you get someone to did you get
someone to come and like tunethe speakers to the room?
Or how how did that work whenyou set up the exhibit?

SPEAKER_03 (54:58):
Yeah, actually, um Genelik has a pretty cool uh
calibration uh software thatthey have.
They're gonna kill me that Iforget what it's called, but
it's okay.
I've got it, I've got it too.

I have Gen Electric speakers in my studios.

SPEAKER_03 (55:11):
And they they're all like the way they all talk to
each other, and it's just it'sreally incredible.
So, like, and um, you know, wehad to we had to set it up
ourselves um uh because likesomething had happened with with
my friend out there at GenElectric.
So I'm like, we'll we'll get it.
It was just like just anemergency he had to deal with.
So yeah, so my husband and I andlike four student volunteers

(55:36):
from NYU came out and we did it.
It was like amazing.
I actually posted about it onInstagram, like anniversary.
So it's just like these kids,like they all we all did it,
like they contributed, we didthis, we contributed, we made
this happen.
This was amazing.
So um, because it takes avillage.

Oh man.

unknown (55:58):
Yeah.

Yeah, I mean it's it's it's a complicated process.
Um uh but I mean they've madeit, they've made it pretty easy,
but um, but in a in a big space,I would have I would have
thought that that would havebeen a a challenge um to do.
And I I think that I think morecool exhibits like that is
really a beautiful idea.
Um and if you can get if you canget kids to to listen and to to

(56:22):
um you know to to engage alltheir senses and all their
imagination um with sound.
I mean that's that's that'sabsolutely an incredible
experience for them.
I think that's so cool.
And I hope that you do anotherone and next time uh I will be
there somehow.
If I have to FedEx myself to NewYork, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 (56:42):
Uh Utmost Story Circle.

I love it.
Oh, that's cool.
Well, so so I know we we've beenchatting for a while, and you've
been very gracious with thetime, but I do have to ask you
um two final questions.
And the first one is what uhtool did did you learn, whether
as a composer or engineer or orjust uh it almost you know, I

(57:05):
mean you you seem to really havea good grasp on the psychology
of children as well.
Like what tool did did did youlearn over your over your life
so far, whether it wasofficially in school or just out
doing stuff, that do you thinkserves you well and and informs
like everything you do besidesbesides the wonderful what if?
Um you know what what do youwhat do you think is the

(57:27):
essential thing that you've beenable to to use uh in its maximal
form to to create all theseamazing, wonderful things?

SPEAKER_03 (57:35):
Um for children specifically?
Um okay.
Wow, that is a good question,Joey.

Um just speaking to them in a way that is
fruitful, I find, like a reallychallenging idea because you
don't want to be toocomplicated, but you also don't
don't want to dumb it down.
I mean it's it's I just wonderit's amazing that you're able to
communicate with them in thisway.

SPEAKER_03 (57:59):
There's two there are two things that come to
mind, and and uh because it'ssomething that I do come back to
often.
I think about them often.
You know, things like my uh, youknow, Mr.
Rogers.

SPEAKER_00 (58:09):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (58:10):
You know, in terms of how he spoke to kids and like
including difficult subjects,right?
And and and he always found away um to to make things and and
transitions.
He was very particular aboutlike the land of make-believe
being this separate space,right?
That wouldn't cross over.

(58:32):
And like there was justsomething, everything was very,
very thoroughly thought through.
And then um and so I've I alwaysthink about him and also Maria
Montessori.
So my son went to uh Montessorischool, um, and I we practiced
Montessori um pedagogy in athome, so we set it up.

(58:56):
It's uh it's a method of kind ofa life and and teaching method
for children where it's um youknow they're i it's almost
children child led, butbasically you're setting up the
environment a lot of focus onthe environment where uh to make
it conducive for them to learn.
So and the more I read about itand I studied Maria Montessori's

(59:22):
work, the more I realized like,wait, this is life.
You know, when you set up theenvironment in a way that
encourages you and to blossom,to encourages encourages you to
blossom and grow, you are gonnado just that.
And so I often think about thosekind of the different phases

(59:45):
that kids go through in growingup, and so how their needs
change, and that's somethingthat she addressed as well.
So so a lot of the content, alot of the lyrics, you know,
even you know, the sound, youknow, because kids, like you
said before, they they're theygot sophisticated ears, you
know, and and there aredifferent things for different
phases, right, as they grow up.

(01:00:06):
But it's always like how youaddress children.
You don't have to do the reallyhigh, like, hello boys and
girls, right?
I don't know.
They don't you don't need youdon't need that.
You know, like and it's totallyokay if you do that too.
Like there's a time and placefor for different things, but
it's just like they'll dothey'll have just as much fun.
You just watch.

(01:00:27):
And it's um so that's kind ofthe thing I always think about
Maria Montessori and Mr.
Rogers.
Those are kind of like my two mytwo big ones.

Joey Stuckey (01:00:35):
That's that's incredible because um I I'm a
big Mr.
Rogers fan, and um I alwaysthought that um you know one of
the things he said that was sopowerful was like, you know,
look for the helpers.
And um and just you know, therewas so much kindness um in in
what he did um that that that Ireally that I really valued
that.

(01:00:56):
And it's interesting.
My wife um was visiting family.
Um I was sick, I'd I'd hurtmyself, hurt my shoulder, but uh
oh yeah, I got a metal shoulderand I did something silly and
and I I had to like go through abunch of rehab to get it fixed.
But anyway, um she um w was withuh a a little two-year-old um
niece um that she hadn't reallymet before, um, you know, and

(01:01:20):
and uh was visiting family andum and uh she uh found Mr.
Rogers on YouTube and uh and andplayed it for her.
And the young the young lady uhwas just um just mesmerized by
Mr.
Rogers.
Um he just he just found a wayto just to speak uh in such an

(01:01:42):
authentic and powerful way tothese children, and it's
amazing.
And and you know, people willoften sort of criticize him for
talking slow or whatever, butbut he yeah he really wasn't,
but he was just very thoughtfulabout everything that happened.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:55):
So thoughtful, yeah.
Very, very careful about thewords he would choose, and just
like making sure that that kidswould kind of digest and it and
the speed thing, like this ismore recent, you know, like the
as and you can tell, like if youwatch if if you like even just
listen to any cartoons from the80s, like Thundercats.

(01:02:16):
I used to love the Thundercats.
Oh yeah, and like I listened tothe Thundercats not too long,
like probably like two years agoor something, an old episode,
and I'm like, wow, the pacing isvery slow.

SPEAKER_05 (01:02:30):
Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:30):
And it's just like and He-Man is another one.
They're they're making a newHe-Man movie, by the way.
I I have heard about this.
So like He-Man is another one,like the we're just the speech,
like everything is just slower.
So there's just kind of a a um acultural thing, like this social
media and the internet hasdefinitely like sped things up a
bit much.

(01:02:51):
Yeah.
And like it shouldn't be.
Like, we don't need to be thatfast.
Like, we can, you know, umdigestible bits are so welcome,
you know.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:01):
Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:02):
And um, so I think that it's just like the the
culture and time right now thatthings things are just so much
faster.
But like at the time, you know,Mr.
Rogers.
I think it I wonder if he wereto start now.
I mean, it would be a differenta whole different thing, but
like what would the pace belike?

You know, I that is an interesting question.
I'd love to I wish we could askhim.
Um, you know, the the do youhave a favorite cartoon?
By the way, I have to know.
Since you love cartoons, I dotoo.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:33):
Oh my gosh.

Umvils in your house.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:40):
Um let me see.
Uh oh my goodness.
Oh, this is hard.
Um for a while, uh well, BugsBunny, like that's a classic,
right?
That that's always been thething.
Uh I even have a favorite BugsBunny episode.
Uh but uh let me see, let mesee.

I like Duck Seed and Rabbit Season.
That's a good one.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:58):
Ooh, that yeah, that's a good one.
Um, Dexter's Laboratory.
They just on Cartoon Network.
And it's funny because that onecame out like as I was already
an adult, so like, or a biggerkid, I don't even remember or
what.
But I I know I wasn't a a kidanymore, but I was really
obsessed with that show becauseI loved it, no dee, no.

I love the idea that it was just like this all
the voices, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:20):
This kid, this kid who like really was so like into
science and into makinginventions, and they were always
just so silly.
And he had this this really nosysister who just wanted to do to
be involved in everything.
Hey Dexter, what are you doing?
It's a great show.

Yeah, it's a great show.
I love it.
I love that.
That's a that's a good cartoon.
Uh my wife, I I'm a I'm a bigSpongebob fan, but uh my wife
doesn't care for it.
So um but I I like someSpongeBob.
Um the uh and you know, a lot ofcartoons are are highly visual.
Um so some of them, you know,are not really as accessible for
me, but also there's a realsweet one, and you've probably

(01:05:00):
seen it, uh Apple and Onion thatI kind of enjoy.
Um I've never heard of that one.
If you haven't if you haven'tseen it, you should check it
out.
It's it's it's they're shortlittle 12-minute episodes, I
think, and uh, but they'rethey're pretty cute.
This is the last thing.
Um I have to ask you, and I hopeyou'll still love me after I ask
you this because it's a loadedquestion.

(01:05:20):
Um, but what are your thoughtson AI in our space?

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:25):
Ooh, um hot topic.
Yeah, people get mad.
I just came back.
Well, well, it's funny, it'sit's still formulating, you
know, like there's still things,and it's like, you know, we were
talking before about the pace ofjust like, you know, I have so
much music in my head, and it'sjust like, you know, I'm trying
to get it out, you know, out outthere, right?

(01:05:46):
And um so like, but I'm workingon on two other productions
right now, and I gotta finishthose, and then I'm gonna work
on my next album.
So it's like there has to be anorder to things, yeah.
So it's just like, but there'slike this set kind of fast
paced.
things so it's like and yeah AIis is here you know and it's
just like we could fight fightit but i it it is not you know

(01:06:11):
as as technology goes as mostthings go with with music you
know a new thing gets introducedand it's just like um you know
there's a big panic and then wehave to adapt.
Now this one's different.
There are there it it feelsdifferent and I know like you
know when when Napster came outand all that right like it was

(01:06:34):
just like oh it's the end andit's just like but it was the
beginning of something new.
So like this is the beginning ofsomething different but I I am
concerned Joey.
And the the short term concernis just like okay well my role
as a producer I have to evolveright because it's just like
anybody could just go to Sunoand just like upload their demo

(01:06:56):
and just like spits out likehere's your new song.
So there's that.
So it's just like well well waitwhat's my role what who am I?
Exactly what am I supposed todo?
You know and and like the uh inthis recent thing that I went to
they're just like every studiois using AI and I was just like
they are I'm not I'm like I'mI'm what am I behind the times?

(01:07:20):
Apparently I'm behind the timeswe're behind the times Joey
we're we're yeah we're I meanthere are certain things that
you know we are using AI in a inan auxiliary way right because
like things like Melodyne likethere's some AI built in to like
analyze audio right so it couldcreate the blobs and do these
things but it's like it's fromthis and the analytical way

(01:07:42):
right so we can manipulate theaudio.
Now um but this is differentwe're talking about like
generative right AI stuff that'slike making the music for you.
So like um so so it'sinteresting um the so there
there's the evolution part rightso like the roles have to evolve
what is that going to look likeso there's there's that

(01:08:04):
immediate concern in terms ofbut there's another thing that
that's really pressing on me andand it's it's m it's music
related but it's also like worldrelated it's like what how will
our brains evolve Joey that's aconcern like that's the thing

(01:08:25):
that gets me most because we'retaking away you know the the
things that make us so human youknow and giving it to a to a
computer to do this other thingfor us.
And so we're using our brainsless and less and so which makes
you know just certain parts ofyour brain just dormant.

(01:08:48):
You know studies have alreadybeen have already been done on
students who are relying heavilyon chat GPT and other forms of
AI you know Claude or whateverto to help them with their
schoolwork.
And so their critical thinkingis going out the window.
There's atrophy there yeah yeahand like the thing is like even
in the studio while we're youknow while I'm making stuff like

(01:09:09):
I'm always thinking like what ifright like what if that what if
goes away you know like that'sterrible.
You know like I love creating Ilove like the problem solving
thing.
It's just like and curiosity andall the things like um and um so
that's the thing like the longterm thing that I'm I'm most

(01:09:32):
concerned about.
So I don't have full you know Idon't have any good answers.
I know that there's um you knowthe assignment right now is that
we have to figure out how toevolve and how to how to live in
this world.
And like I do hope that certainlaws come into play where where
it can protect our like whatwe've done so far, right?

(01:09:53):
Like the likeness of us and andour styles.
Yes and um and I hope we find away to keep AI as a tool and not
a replacement for our brains.

Yeah.
I have gotten a lot of hate onsocial media for my stance on
this uh and uh and and basicallyyou know what I find is that
usually not always but usuallysomewhere in the middle is where
the truth is and so you know I'mall for AI um being uh of a of
an assisting role so there arepeople that are are are using AI

(01:10:31):
to help them be organized I canget behind that uh there are
blind people uh like myself whohave hope that AI can help us
interface better in the visualworld and and be our eyes uh so
and that's happening that'sstarting to finally happen I've
been preaching going to AI forthat for about the past 10 years
actually um and so I I I I getthat uh what I don't like uh is

(01:10:55):
uh on the other hand you've gotthe CEO of Sunos saying some
pretty ridiculous things aboutcreativity um I'm scared of
looking up what he's talkingabout yeah I mean well and he's
he's basically saying music'stoo hard I don't want to put in
my 10,000 hours and you know andso I was like you know so I I I
have a real visceral response tothat.
So you know and also I don'treally like you know I love

(01:11:18):
Isotope um they make someincredible tools but like I
don't really like uh the littleuh little thing that says hey
may I suggest uh where you startyour levels no you may not uh I
am a professional engineer Idon't need your suggestions uh
it makes me think of Clippyeverybody hated Clippy you know
like I don't know if anybodyremembers what clippy was but

(01:11:38):
that was a Microsoft Word toolthat kept trying to get in your
business and make you that'sright you know and I was like
this is this is Clippy.
So I don't you know I don't needthat but the the other the other
side to this is that for good orill it's here and it's it's not
going anywhere.
And so we also have to recognizethat it's part of our world so

(01:12:00):
there was a post about Berkeleystudents and I'm a proud
Berkeley student myself um inBerkeley and Boston uh
protesting all these uh new AIcourses they designed for
Berkeley and basically saying wecame here to learn to be
musicians we didn't come tolearn AI and so I respect that
and and 100% behind the studentson that.

(01:12:21):
But the other thing I'd say iswe can't pretend it's not there
either so we do need to have atleast a class in what's going on
with AI and one of the thingsthat started this I've been
meaning to do this podcast ideaof stuck on sound for years.
And what finally got me over thehump was that nobody knew the
law and AI and people were weresaying that my read on that was

(01:12:46):
wrong and I thought well youknow obviously I'm not perfect
it is possible I'm wrong but youknow I haven't seen this
nebulous there's all thesethings out there where it's like
oh a certain percentage iscopyrightable and I was like I
don't think that's true.
So finally I got my attorney andsaid look come sit down with me
for an hour on on a on thispodcast and let's talk about
what the law is and uh that'swhy this all started but but I

(01:13:08):
knew really cool people likeyourself and I was like there's
so many great stories to be toldum so that's that's what we're
gonna do.
So anyway yeah there there's aperspective on this there just
just for the you know for theumpteenth time I I like to kill
I like to uh destroy ignorancewherever I can um and you know I
I have been trying to kill thisstupid idea that that is

(01:13:31):
throughout our industry that ohI can copyright my song by
mailing it to myself uh no soit's like I have I have been
preaching about that for 20years.
But anyway um with AI it'sthere's the same you know
there's a lot of the same stuff.
And so you know really the theproblem that we're having is uh
and this is a conversation foranother day but is the fact that
the law is always behind thetechnology but we really can't

(01:13:54):
afford to be that way anymorebecause AI is changing so
rapidly that it's almost wereally have to do something
significant soon.
And um and and there iscurrently no comprehensive
federal legislation that thatgives guardrails.
I mean you've got a couple ofstates like you know Tennessee's
passed the Elvis Act and there'ssome other handful of things out
there but um you know um there'sa lot of things that uh that

(01:14:17):
that that you know need to bedone to to protect our industry
and that's not to say that wewould should say no I ever you
know we're you know but doesn'tmean we're a Luddite just
because we don't want the wedon't want we don't want clippy
you know what I mean so butanyway it's it's the the thing I
guess what I'm trying to say ina in a roundabout way is I
cherish your spark yourcreativity you Lucy as a unique

(01:14:41):
being and that is what is soimportant to protect because the
music industry in many ways hasbecome more disposable uh than
it ever should have and I thinkthat most artists who have any
sense of history uh know that wehave uh a role to play in the
betterment of our society andarts is really important in that

(01:15:02):
role and I take it realseriously I think it's my
responsibility to help promotenew ways of thinking um but I
also think it's myresponsibility to to preserve
history in the past and makesure we don't make mistakes that
we've made before.
So you know as artists I meanthese are the things that we're
doing and uh and that's that isa worthwhile pursuit.
Yes so I but I get a lot of hatefor that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:25):
You know I think we'll we'll find our way um we
have to find our way right yeahum and I I think like we also
have to be open to to thatevolution right of of what what
it means.
And like I am curious that likeI want to have more
conversations about this becauseit was interesting to see like
okay it's here like we'reincorporating it like all all

(01:15:48):
the studios use it again likehearing that I'm just like I'm
not man I'm yeah yeah I'm noteither what are you talking
about?
And and it's just like um I douse uh you know just some
assistant things right like youknow helping me with some of my
lists or things like that.
Yeah well that's I mean thatmakes sense that's like the
stuff that that we talked aboutbut like so I want to know like

(01:16:09):
what what else is happening solike what does that look like
and and what does that meanagain like as a producer um our
roles have to evolve and whatdoes that look like so that's
that's gonna be my next mission.
Maybe that's when I go into AESnext time that's gonna be my big
question Joey nice and then I'mgonna come out with a big
answer.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:28):
I don't know I love it.

Well I'm gonna leave I feel comfortable making
this your problem so I am nowofficially I am now I love to
delegate I love to delegate it'sone of my great joys and I love
I love thinking oh that's myassistant Cray's uh job he can
do that oh that's Jennifer's jobI don't have to do that that's
I'll give that I'll just sendthis email to her uh so I am now

(01:16:50):
passing all my concerns and theweight uh over to you Lucy to
discover how we can make thiswork and uh I will now sleep a
lot more easily at night oh goodit's it's all your fault I can
help with the cargo it's all younow thank you so much for your
time my friend I appreciate itso much and uh thank you so much

(01:17:11):
for having me this was reallyfun I didn't even notice time
time was like that's a good signthat's a good sign and I know
you've got cellos to work on soI'll I'll leave you to your
cellos but seriously blessingsto you for doing such incredible
work and and so thoughtful umand it's so exciting and I just
you know I always know wheneverI get a chance to interview one

(01:17:31):
of my friends that's doing coolstuff that someone out there is
going to hear something you saidand it's gonna change them for
the better.
I mean that's that's theexciting part about having these
conversations.
Well that makes me happy thankyou for saying that you you are
welcome my friend and I will Iwill talk to you soon and I will
look forward to hearing somemore Funkalely in the near
future.

SPEAKER_02 (01:17:50):
Sounds great.
Thank you Joey thanks friendtake care all right bye

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 4: Lucy Kalantari on Grammy-Nominated Closet Recordings, Children’s Music, Dolby Atmos, and Keeping Curiosity Alive

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Betrayal Weekly

All Episodes

Episode 4: Lucy Kalantari on Grammy-Nominated Closet Recordings, Children’s Music, Dolby Atmos, and Keeping Curiosity Alive

Stuff You Should Know