August 26, 2026 • 33 mins
Something has shifted in the way people make decisions and most business owners have not caught up yet.
The techniques that used to work, building rapport quickly, presenting your solution confidently, following up persistently, are now doing the opposite of what they were designed to do.
We are living through a Trust Recession.
And the old sales playbook was written for a different era.
In this month's Stump The Guru, I am getting into what this actually means for your business and what a trust-based approach looks like in the world we are selling in today.
I have made it my life's mission to create the clarity that is missing in the traditional sales process, through decades of working with thousands of business owners all over the world, refining Trust-Based Selling into a true art form:
· Stop "chasing" ghosts (leads that never call you back!)
· Make the sale in ONE conversation, without pressure
· Stop selling, create deep trust instead
I’ve taken my mission one step further and created a livestream show called “Stump The Guru’” -- where you get the opportunity to jump on live and ask me your toughest sales questions that you’d love an answer for.
Get Ari's latest best-selling book "Trust In A Split Second!" for FREE along with a Complimentary Lead & Sales Growth Consultation (Value $995.00) at http://www.UnlockTheGame.com/FreeConsult, and join him as a guest on his podcast "Stump The Guru" and get your chance to ask Ari one-on-one questions, fill in the form to be clickable to this link: https://links.arigalper.com/widget/form/rh5YanDqzZqPHVBCKlKG
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Hi everyone, welcome to Stump the Guru podcast with
your host, Ari Galpa, theworld's number one authority on
trust-based selling and thecreator of Unlock the Game.
This monthly podcast will bringyou guests from virtually every
industry unrehearsed to try andstump Ari with their most
difficult sales challenges.
(00:21):
This podcast is for businessowners, financial advisors,
entrepreneurs, and salesexecutives.
The guests on this show haveonly one goal in mind: to stump
ARI.
And ARI has one goal in mind (00:33):
to overturn the notion of selling
as we know it today by buildingtrust between buyers and
sellers.
SPEAKER_02 (00:48):
Thank you for those who are listening and watching
from all around the world.
This show gets converted to alot to a podcast recording,
which you can listen to at theum in Spotify.
Just search for Stump the Guruwith Ari Galper or YouTube to
watch it on video there as well.
So welcome.
My name is Ari Galper,specializing trust-based selling
(01:09):
for the last 25 years.
I can't believe it.
It's gone by so fast, but wehave been deep inside the front
lines of what it's like to beable to deal with the new
economy, the recession, and howto sell with trust and not to
sell with selling.
That's a real big mindset shiftfor most people.
(01:30):
And um, you're here because youunderstand the world has shifted
and you're still um wetted tothe old no-like and trust model,
you're gonna hit a wall prettyquickly, especially as the world
becomes more AI-ish and lesshuman.
Uh, what you'll learn today isthat humanness is how you're
gonna win this game at the endof the day, by not selling
(01:51):
yourself, but by trust building.
And trust building is anentirely different skill set
altogether.
It requires us humans to learn anew skill.
It's not natural, especially ifyou've been taught to sell the
old way uh in the past.
So this show is about uh just uhfirst of all, people jumping on
live to ask me a question.
If you're listening right nowand want to jump in to the queue
(02:13):
in the back of the room to becalled in to the show, just go
to stumpthuru.com and you'll beable to get uh in the queue
there.
If you're watching live, you'llprobably at regalper.com for us
live where you can see me liveon video right now.
Uh, even the recording will goto YouTube afterwards.
But that's where you go to thepage to jump in live or to watch
(02:35):
live at a regalper.com forgethat's live.
Uh so and all those of you whoare new to the show, um, if you
don't know my latest book isTrust in a split second, you can
get a copy of the trustbook.comor join our membership for free
at ori.com slash free uh to joinour uh community.
So look, today we'll we're gonnado a bit of a theme uh around
(02:57):
what I'm experiencing on thefront lines uh each previous
month, uh up until today.
And then whoever's uh onlinewill jump and ask me a question.
And Sam's always there as wellfor us to go back and forth to
share some thoughts.
But I want to talk a bit todayabout uh this idea of showing up
for your first conversation witha new opportunity and how to
(03:18):
deal with the fact that yourpotential prospect has
expectations of you and theyassume you've shown up to do one
thing, and that is to make thesale.
And that's where you would havewhat we call the trust
recession, where you have yourbuyers already assume you're
you're there to with your ownagenda to make that sale.
(03:40):
And when they come into yourmeeting with you thinking that
their wall is up, their guard isup, and if you start to do
certain behaviors that are whatthings you think you should be
doing, like educating, talkingabout yourself, uh engaging into
a relationship, you're goingagainst the flow because they
know those are activities andbehaviors that uh make them
(04:02):
suspicious that you have anagenda which is not theirs.
So our whole concept, thepremise is to let go of your
agenda and to remove all salesbehaviors and languaging that
you're used to and insteadconnect with them where you're
not talking, uh, you'relistening and you're engaging
with them about their problem,but allowing them to share with
(04:24):
you what's going on.
In fact, I just got off a call afew minutes ago with a gentleman
who works for a uh a bathroomrenovation company, and he gets
leads and he goes uh on site forto someone's home for a meeting
to discuss their renovation.
And his company's trained himthat when he shows up at the
(04:46):
front door after saying hello,he gives them a bit of a
preamble.
He says, Look, here's a plantoday.
I'm gonna take a look at yourbathroom, discuss what you're
looking to achieve.
I'm gonna show you threedifferent prices.
One that you can get now, one ata discount, one if you can
decide quickly, but there's nopressure at all, of course.
And I'll share my company, whatwe do, and we'll go from there.
(05:06):
He does a whole pre-salespreamble before he even sort of
has them talk about theirsituation.
And then he's having says hisgoal, he's having trouble with
his conversion rate.
He's only getting 20% uh out ofthe uh 100% of our leads that
are coming through every month.
And he's happy with that numberbecause he thinks that's above
(05:27):
the average.
And I told him that's below ofwhat he should be doing.
Uh, and so we started to worktogether and I helped him
understand that when he shows upin that home, he needs to
essentially stop talking abouthimself.
Stop talking about his company.
He said, No, no, but we've beenaround a long time.
My company tells me I need totalk about what we do.
(05:48):
I said, they don't care, theyknow what you do.
You do pathum renovation, that'swhy they allowed you in their
home.
So stop talking about yourselfand allow them to uh talk about
what's on their mind, whatthey're thinking about.
You don't have to set the wholething up with a preamble for a
close at the end, but reallyhave languaging that makes them
feel comfortable with youbecause they're not buying your
(06:10):
company, they're buying you as ahuman being.
And if you are in any way comingacross the same as everybody
else who showed up that day orthe next day, offering a quote
to do the job, you're acommodity, you're commoditized,
and they're gonna make you chasethem, they're gonna make you
follow up with them.
And I gave him a few tips.
I said, first of all, I want youto replace the word quote and
(06:34):
proposal with the word plan.
And he was kind of shocked.
He said, What do you mean?
That's what we're we do, we doquotes.
I said, get out of the quotebusiness and focus on
customizing a plan for what theybelieve they would like or need.
Uh, that makes you moreconsultative in nature.
Uh, and that was the firstshock.
(06:54):
The next shock I told him was,of course, earlier, I said, Stop
talking about your company andstart with this languaging.
If you wouldn't mind, tell me alittle bit about what you had in
mind with your home and yourbathroom.
What are you thinking aboutsomething more uh utilitarian
where it's just functional only?
Or are you looking about havingsomething more impressive for
(07:14):
yourself to feel good abouthaving an elegant bathroom that
your neighbors would be excitedto see?
Tell me about what you had inmind, what your vision is, and
we'll go from there.
And then you sort of you knowwalk the process with them, and
I and I walked him through howto create a roadmap and how to
show them a process and how tofeel comfortable with him.
And the hardest part of thiswhole process was him not
(07:39):
talking about himself and hiscompany.
And so he's now going throughthe shift, the transformation of
30 years of being trained by hiscompany to be product-centric as
opposed to beingproblem-centric, and to be so
used to hearing his own voicethat he felt that's what his
whole process was based on washim controlling the process.
(08:00):
And it turns out the truth wasthat the other person, the
homeowner, was not feelingcomfortable with him.
And I explained to him thatthey're hiring him, not his
company, and they're gonnadecide on him based on how they
feel about his approach, not onwhat the spec is that he'll do
for them.
So that was a real shift, andhe's excited to learn more.
(08:23):
And I want to share that storyfor everybody to understand that
if you're coming into a firstmeeting with someone with this
preset process with them thatyou've been doing for years, top
by your company or top by yourprevious sales managers or sales
gurus or whatever, then you arestuck in a loop, a loop that's
been going on for years thatyour prospects and customers can
(08:45):
read from you a mile away.
Okay.
And they're gonna shut down.
Now they'll be nice to you,they'll play the game with you,
but they will not trust you.
And you'll be stuck at the endof the call or meeting with, I
want to think about it, call menext week, send me a proposal,
and you'll struggle.
And you'll you'll play thenumbers game, and your your
(09:06):
conversion rate will remain thesame or plateau over time, and
you'll either leave your companyor or if you're own your own
business, try and buy more leadsand solve it that way.
You'll be stuck in this loop.
And this is a loop that we havecrafted code on that no one in
the world has has solved beforein our way, based upon trust.
So I wanted to kind of give thatpreamble today to everyone to
(09:27):
kind of get a sense of how weview the world around where the
sales process is going, um, andwhy, with AI become more
prolific, you have to becomemore human.
Uh, and if you're trying to be ahybrid between the two, you're
gonna be in trouble real quickbecause the reality is humans
will buy from humans they cantrust, not by humans who try to
(09:50):
educate them and impress themwith what they know.
Okay, so uh what we'll do iswe'll open the show up here and
see who we have back there andum for questions.
And if not, of course, Sam'sthere to for us to banter back
and forth and and from that, alot a lot of folks listening and
hear the insights from that.
So Steve, how are we doing backthere?
SPEAKER_01 (10:08):
Sure.
All righty.
I'm gonna bring Sam on thestart.
So we'll go there, look at acouple people with tech issues,
but uh the rest is the livestream is amazing for everybody
that's hearing this.
You can go to arigalper.comslash live.
And uh, we're now hosting itthrough YouTube, so it's
stellar, and uh, I can see morepeople in there than we've ever
had, which is awesome.
So thank you for everybodythat's here today.
And let me bring Sam on rightnow.
(10:29):
Here we go.
What's up, buddy?
How we been?
SPEAKER_04 (10:32):
Hey, how you doing?
Hey, Ari.
Hey Sam, how you doing?
Good, thanks.
Good.
Yeah, look, I love what you justsaid there.
Look, that just encapsulated thewhole process.
And look, I'd encourage anybodyif you're listening to that, if
you just heard what Ari said andyou thought to yourself, that
makes sense, then my questionwould be when would be a good
time to change?
(10:53):
Right?
Because you know, the reality ofit is that sometimes we hear
these things, but we don't applyit.
And if we don't apply it, as yousaid, Ari, we're stuck in that
loop for a very long time.
And what's the default solution?
Well, let's just get more leads,right?
And that's what people usuallywork towards.
(11:14):
I think that's the answer.
I'll just get more leads.
It's not me, it's that prospect,their crappy leads or whatever
it might be, I'll just get moreof them.
And that's just a formula for alot of work and not getting a
lot of gain.
And I like also what you saidabout the minute you walk in the
door, they they're judging you,and that's the reality, and
(11:38):
they're judging you on yourapproach.
And this is a feeling business,and what they sense.
And if they feel that you'retrying to sell them something,
you have an agenda, whichclearly you sort of do when you
start with the whole preamble.
Let me tell you how this isgonna work.
They feel like they're in aframe, they're in a setup.
(11:58):
Okay, that's not very natural.
Natural conversations don'tstart like that.
So they're saying to themselves,you know, Emmy's you gonna try
and sell me something?
And the other thing they'rethinking is, Do I trust him or
her?
Right?
Now, not to say they're nottrustworthy, but they're saying,
Does this person have an agenda?
Are they looking at my bestinterests?
(12:20):
Uh, do I trust them that theywill do the work?
SPEAKER_02 (12:24):
Um, you know, that's you know, Sam.
It's funny about that.
I was talking to a consultantyesterday and I asked him, How
do you start your firstconversations when you meet
someone new, a new lead?
And he basically does the wholefit thing.
Well, uh, you know, the purposeof today is to really get to
know each other a bit better,let me understand you better,
and to see it for a fit.
(12:44):
And if for a fit, then wedecided where to go from there.
Now that sounds reasonable, likein 1990, right?
When everyone knows everyone wasdoing the new thing.
But when you do that now, it'slike a setup, it's a typical
sales setup.
And you know, when I go see adoctor, he doesn't say to me,
Ari, let's see it for a fitbefore we work together, right?
He didn't do that.
(13:05):
It's like it doesn't make sense.
He starts with, tell me aboutwhere it hurts, right?
And and the deep dive beginsfrom there.
So, and you also touched onsomething interesting there.
You said that if you this makessense to you, then why are you
hesitating to make the change?
And I think human beingsnaturally don't want to change,
(13:27):
yeah, they're more comfortablestaying in their zone of
comfort, they'd rather actuallylose sales, lose opportunities,
still keep doing what they'redoing, and look at some other
external factor as to what theproblem is.
Oh, the leads are bad.
Uh oh, I can't get a hold of myyou know, no one answers phones
anymore.
I I tried LinkedIn.
Well, it turns out the channelsaren't the problem.
(13:50):
You're the problem.
Your approach itself sendssignals that you're up to
something for your own gain,you're not there to solve a
problem they may or may nothave.
And that is a subtle difference.
Now, you might say to yourself,Well, I'm not pushy, I'm not a
(14:10):
salesperson.
I I'm very friendly.
I I'm here it is, my favorite.
I'm relationship-based,oriented.
I build relationships withpeople, I'm not a salesperson,
Ari.
And I say, Well, when I go to adoctor, they don't try and build
a relationship with me at all.
Now, through bedside manner andempathy, we do connect, but they
(14:34):
stay problem focused.
And so to make the shift, ifyou're listening, watching live
right now or on the podcast, youhave to commit to learning a new
skill.
I'm sorry, there's no shortcut.
You have to learn how to detoxfrom all the old voices and
behaviors from your old salesmanager from years ago, your
(14:54):
industry conference you went tolast week, who said you need to
be better at closing.
You need to close all that noiseand start fresh on a new path
and to learn how to staypresent, learn how to listen,
and learn how to not interjectquestions when there's empty
silence to move people forward,which is a natural reaction.
(15:14):
So I just kind of wanted tomention those key checkpoints
because once you come throughthe loop on this thing, as we
all know, and our clients knowfor 25 years now, they never go
back anymore because they nowrealize what they were doing was
the actual problem itselfcausing the losses there, Sam.
SPEAKER_04 (15:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think also, you know,change comes from the fact that
you realize how manyopportunities you're losing,
right?
I mean, you know, these are bigticket items, you know, eight
out of 10 that you've lost.
I mean, a lot of people judgethemselves on the ones that they
win and think, yeah, fantastic.
Yeah, but what about how muchyou're losing?
Like that's a lot of money toleave on the table.
(15:52):
And if you were to just changeyour approach and somehow even
get half of the ones you'relosing, look, sometimes you can
even double your business justfrom conversion alone.
You don't need more leads then.
SPEAKER_02 (16:06):
You know what I hear a lot of?
I hear people say, Well, uh oh,Ari, they're most of my leads
are unqualified, so that's whyI'm not converting as high as
I'd like to.
And I say to them, look, ofcourse, most lead flow will have
10, 20 that might be, yeah,homeless people or unqualified.
Um, but you know, how about theother chunk of 40% you're
(16:29):
losing, anyways, who werequalified?
What about those people, right?
So, so you're right, is thatmost businesses and business
owners or sales executives, theyare measured and they focus on a
dashboard that focuses on howmuch they're making from last
quarter, how much they made forthis quarter.
(16:50):
And they think if we increasefrom first to last quarter, hey,
we're doing great.
What they don't look at is thenumber over here, that is kind
of a gray and black and fuzzythat is shows them how much
they've lost every quarter bythe conversions they're not
doing right.
Um, and that's where theyusually bury because they don't
really know how to deal withthat part.
(17:10):
So they just simply say, Well,if we budget out another 50k a
month and get more leads comingin, we'll keep that number keep
going up higher.
So you're getting higher cost oflead, your numbers keep going
up, and everyone's happy.
But no one's looking down theleft-hand corner and going,
Well, what about the 50 peoplein the CRM right now who want to
think about it, have proposals,haven't called us back.
(17:31):
Well, I guess, geez, that's justthe way it goes.
Uh, we just play the numbersgame and get more numbers in.
That's that is the state of themental space for the most people
in selling isn't are in rightnow, in terms of how they
believe it should run.
And that is false becausethey're not focusing on why
they're losing, they're focusedon, and that's about the deal,
(17:53):
it's about the process asopposed to the win.
And that's what we're trying tohelp people highlight to
recognize they can, like yousaid, you can literally double
the revenue in your company thana penny more spent by just
simply doubling your conversionrate right now.
And that's what we have uniqueprocesses for, and we're proud
of that, uh, especially the onecall sale and everything else
(18:15):
that we do, because we are theonly ones in the world to figure
this out how to grow theconversion rate by not pushing
you harder with no moretechniques, but the mindset
shift in the approach.
And that's something we standstrong on, Sam.
SPEAKER_04 (18:28):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And and look, what you said wasreally important is the fact
that you know the prospect won'toutright say to you, look, I
don't like you, I don't trustyou, all those things.
They will be nice about it.
I mean, yeah, we're humanbeings, we don't want to hurt
anybody's feelings, and we'llsay, Yep, sounds great.
Thank you so much.
I like that information.
Let me process that, let methink about it, and I'll get
(18:49):
back to you.
Um, and then, you know, that'sit.
And then that forces you to thenthink, wow, this is a good
opportunity.
Okay, I've got to get back toearth actually thinking about
it, and I'm gonna call them.
And and then that puts you intothe chasing game.
You call them, or somethinghappens, they don't answer, and
then it all starts from there,goes downhill, circuit slope,
you know.
SPEAKER_02 (19:09):
Well, that's that's the hobby, the hobby of it,
right?
Where you can't talk about that.
SPEAKER_04 (19:14):
And you say, Well, they said they were interested,
they said they wanted to thinkabout it, you know, and then and
then we all think that peopleare good people on their word,
and they are, right?
They just didn't want to say toyou, right, that look, you're
like everybody else I spoke tothis week, right?
And and and and the thing thatI'm seeing, you know, people
think, and this is a veryimportant distinction.
(19:35):
People think that trust isdeveloped by showing their
company's brilliance, how longthey've been around for, their
client lists, theirtestimonials.
I got more Google reviews thanyou, you know.
You can trust me.
Um, but that's not the casebecause everybody's got some
kind of credentials,credibility, history.
(19:56):
It's no longer adifferentiation, it's a
commoditized approach.
And and I love the fact thatyour doctor-patient mentality
relationship always works best.
You don't go to a doctor, thedoctor doesn't say, 'Well, let
me tell you where I went toschool, let me tell you my
degrees, look at these ones onmy wall, look at all these
(20:19):
customers, and these are all myreviews.
And we've been doing this for 10years.
Then I start with that, right?'That that's that's right.
It's not natural.
SPEAKER_02 (20:30):
Most people in sales or selling have always thought
that the premise of the decisionis based upon their credentials,
based upon their resume.
And what they don't understandis now in a commoditized market
that we're in, it's based notupon your resume or why you
think you're better, it's basedupon how they feel about the way
(20:52):
you approach them, the wordsthat you use, how you make them
feel.
This is like EQ, right?
This is like high-level EQ.
You have to learn how to engagewith people in a way where you
don't have to flex anymore orpitch yourself anymore because
the ones who come across mostauthentic and don't try and
(21:13):
become their best friend athello, but know how to have the
right language and to go downthe iceberg, as we say, and then
show them a path to solve theirproblem without an agenda, are
the ones who will continue torise above all the noise out
there.
We're seeing it all the time.
I mean, you're uh with with agroup of students each week who
are experiencing this.
(21:33):
I'm on the front lines every daytalking to new opportunities
coming our way, and we'rehelping them see this shift.
And I think what we're trying todo, Sam, here on the show and
everything else that we do inour books is help people make
that shift.
And I think that's what we'rewe're trying to do.
So let's just pause here for asecond.
Let's check back with Steve andsee if anyone else, Steve, is is
back there.
SPEAKER_01 (21:56):
Yeah, absolutely.
Sam, I'm gonna boot you, myfriend.
And let's see.
Let me scroll down here.
David has just come in.
I'm going to bring David on.
He's got a great question foryou, Ari.
Hey, David, how are you?
If you can let everybody knowthat's listening who you are,
what your business is all about.
And then your question for Ari,please.
SPEAKER_03 (22:15):
Thank you, Steve.
Hi, Ari.
Great to see you.
Hey, David, how's it going?
Good, good to see you.
It's going well.
And so I am in the process oflaunching a fractional chief
investment officer service.
And the question I have for youis, Ari, I'd like to get your
insights on how to effectivelywork with prospects who seem to
(22:39):
be trying to score some freeconsulting during prospect
meetings.
SPEAKER_02 (22:46):
So tell me a bit about that.
So you have somebody who I guessshows up for an initial is it
via Zoom, like kind of likethis?
SPEAKER_03 (22:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:54):
An initial meeting.
And obviously assume they'relooking for what you have to
say.
So tell me a little bit abouthow you begin your meeting so I
can sort of see the flow.
What do you say when they showup?
SPEAKER_03 (23:05):
Yeah.
Um, and so um, well, I welcomethem to the meeting.
Um, I um ask them about you knowwhat their greatest needs are in
terms of how I can potentiallyhelp them and things like that.
Um, and it's it's a somewhat umspecial situation with this uh
prospect of the specific.
(23:27):
Um I don't think there's a needto go deep into the weeds of it
during this meeting right now,but um, it's it's a little bit
sort of off the grid from what Inormally do.
At any rate, um he asked mesome, I think, good questions,
but then he also kind ofsometimes slipped in some
questions that basicallynecessitate responses that are
(23:49):
equivalent to that of freeconsultant.
SPEAKER_02 (23:51):
Okay, okay, free free, freeze right there, phrase
right there, David.
Okay.
So ideally, if this process isdone correctly, you should be
the one asking the questions,not him asking you the
questions.
Okay, when he's asking you thequestions, that means that
(24:12):
somehow he's out of yourstructure and he's kind of loose
in his mind trying to figurethings out and extract from you
information to figure out if hecan trust you or not.
Okay, that's what's going onthere.
So, what you need to do, David,is follow a structure where
you're the one asking him thequestions, and by doing that,
(24:33):
he's unraveling the level anddepths of his situation and his
problem, the extent where hehelps you see what the impact to
his issues are, what I call costof an action.
And then at some point, heshares with you the entire 360
view of his world, and you nowunderstand it in full view.
So there's no questions to youat this stage.
(24:55):
You're trying to just unpack hissituation, what I call below the
iceberg.
If you do that in a structuredway with him, then the last
question you'd ask him is isthis a priority for you to
finally have someone come in andget a handle on this to relieve
you of having to do it yourself,whatever the problem is, right?
(25:16):
Yeah, and he says to you, yes,it is.
Then what you do, David, is youwalk him through a roadmap
process, a visual way of whatyour process is to engage with
you.
This this avoids see here's thething: this avoids the questions
because what the reality is, allhe wants to do in the back of
his mind is tell you the truthof his problem, like going to a
(25:39):
doctor.
He doesn't want to have to askyou questions because he doesn't
want to have to pick from youwhat he needs, he wants you to
guide the process.
So I think what's happened hereis the the he's got less
structured on the meeting withyou, and somehow it's gone off
into the forest off the skitrail because the structure you
had with him may not be as tightenough as possible.
(26:00):
What do you think?
Is that possible?
SPEAKER_03 (26:02):
Um, I I I think that that that might play a role, and
I think um I'll I know I knowI'll definitely take your advice
on you know having a set ofquestions to ask him during the
meeting.
Um, so I'm going to be having mythird prospect meeting with him
(26:22):
in a couple of weeks.
Okay.
And so the question I have foryou, Ari, um, is how do you feel
about this as a way of startingthat meeting by me simply asking
him?
Um, I'm just gonna call him Bob.
His name is not Bob, but I'mjust gonna call him Bob.
Bob, um, do you think that thegoal for today's meeting will be
(26:44):
for us to be able to make adecision at the end of today's
meeting as to whether or not youwant to move forward with uh
using me as your consultant?
SPEAKER_02 (26:56):
Something have you have you showed him yet a visual
process map of how you work withclients to engage with them?
SPEAKER_03 (27:06):
Uh no, I have not.
SPEAKER_02 (27:09):
That's what's missing, David.
That's why you have multiplemeetings with him.
He's trying to figure this,you're trying to figure out
together how to work together.
See, there's no what's missinghere is a lack of structure
somewhere in your processbecause he needs to see visually
a tangible process that showshim each phase of what he has to
(27:30):
go through to engage with you.
So you're my phase one might bea discovery phase.
I'm making this up.
Phase two might be analyze allyour finances, phase three might
be put a plan together to builda dashboard.
I don't know what your processis, but I think what's missing
is a structured way to show himhow how you work with a client,
(27:51):
right?
And get him to buy that, buyinto that first.
Say, may I walk you through,Bob, my process for how I'd go
about helping you solve yourproblem.
He's like, Okay, yeah, what howdo you do that?
Out comes the process.
There's four phases phase one,phase two, phase three, phase
(28:13):
four, and you're gonna say tohim, What are your thoughts on
the roadmap process?
SPEAKER_03 (28:18):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (28:18):
Now, if it makes sense, he's gonna say to you,
makes sense.
See, he without the structure,it becomes very loose, and he
can't make a decision.
So you let the structure leadyou to the decision, whether
it's a yes or no at the end.
(28:39):
So, can you work on somehomework for you, David, to work
on a visual process map thatshows how you engage with the
client?
SPEAKER_03 (28:47):
Well, and and I actually have one for my regular
um prospects and clients whoutilize me for my for actual
chief investment officerservice.
The thing is that what he'slooking for is something that is
much more specialized.
Um I I mean, basically what he'sdoing is he is looking into
(29:09):
launching an um investment fundthat specializes in a particular
region of the world that I havedeep expertise in, and he wants
to leverage me for myconnection.
So he knows very he has verylittle pre-existing knowledge of
the business environment withinthis particular region.
(29:31):
And um, I see a a very um alarge investor is interested in
seeding this um fund, and the umthe office that represents that
investor wants to do deep divedue diligence into the viability
(29:56):
of launching a private fund thatspecializes in investments in
that specific region.
So this um person who I've beentalking with, the prospect, he
has very little pre-existingknowledge of this reason.
Sorry, this region.
I got it, I got it.
(30:16):
Business climate, uh, it'sbusiness culture, things like
that.
And so he wants to essentiallyuse me as uh connector to
facilitate conversations.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (30:28):
You're like the ambassador who basically is the
bridge.
I get that, I get that, Itotally do, but even more of a
reason why for him this is ablack hole, he doesn't
understand any of where whatyou're where you do you step in.
He still needs a structuredprocess, David, that shows him
what you're gonna do to help himreach his goal.
(30:51):
So you have to customize a mapfor him in this environment to
show him each phase of whatyou're gonna do in that role to
achieve his goal.
Without that structure, it'll betoo confusing for him to make a
decision, right?
Right, so you still needstructure here, David.
We're gonna say goodbye for now.
We're about at the top of thehour, but I'm so glad you came
(31:13):
in.
Great scenario.
Add that piece of the puzzle andsee what happens after that,
okay?
Thank you so much, Ari.
Good to see you again.
Take care.
We're at the uh top of the showhere, the sub the guru.
And um, again, very fascinatingfor scenario here, as you heard
from David who just came in.
And um, hopefully you're allpicking up on what I'm trying to
say.
(31:33):
Here is that in a complexscenario like that, a buyer
needs a tangible, simplestructure to make a decision
because complexity equalsmistrust and simplicity equals
trust.
If you can't simplify theprocess that you're going to use
to solve a problem for acustomer, they will create more
(31:56):
meetings with you, moreconversations, and it'll get so
messy at the end that they'lldrop off.
So hopefully you got some goodtips from today and from Sam and
I going back and forth.
And again, if you're new to ourworld, please, please get my
latest book at the trustbook.comor join our community for free
at regalper.com forward slashfree.
Get engaged with our communityand begin to learn how to shift
(32:18):
your mindset to a trust-basedmindset uh to catch up with
where the world's going.
So on that note, we'll saygoodbye for now and we'll see
you next time.
SPEAKER_00 (32:27):
We hope you've enjoyed this month's segment of
Stump the Guru and that you'vediscovered some new trust-based
selling strategies that you canapply directly to your sales
process.
You can get access to Ari'strust-based selling 60-minute
masterclass atwww.unlockthegame.com forward
slash video.
(32:48):
And if you want to go one stepfurther, you can order his
latest book, Unlock the SalesGame, and get a free one-on-one
sales growth consultation atwww.unlockthegame.com.
Before we say goodbye for now,if you enjoyed this podcast,
please take a moment to reviewthis podcast.
It's easy.
(33:09):
Just scroll down to the bottomof Tamfaguru Podcast within
Apple Podcasts until you reachratings and reviews.
Click one of the five stars onthe tap to write to leave a
rating.
Thanks so much, and we'll seeyou on the next show.
Hi everyone, welcome to Stump the Guru podcast with
your host, Ari Galpa, theworld's number one authority on
trust-based selling and thecreator of Unlock the Game.
This monthly podcast will bringyou guests from virtually every
industry unrehearsed to try andstump Ari with their most
difficult sales challenges.
(00:21):
This podcast is for businessowners, financial advisors,
entrepreneurs, and salesexecutives.
The guests on this show haveonly one goal in mind: to stump
ARI.
And ARI has one goal in mind (00:33):
to overturn the notion of selling
as we know it today by buildingtrust between buyers and
sellers.
SPEAKER_02 (00:48):
Thank you for those who are listening and watching
from all around the world.
This show gets converted to alot to a podcast recording,
which you can listen to at theum in Spotify.
Just search for Stump the Guruwith Ari Galper or YouTube to
watch it on video there as well.
So welcome.
My name is Ari Galper,specializing trust-based selling
(01:09):
for the last 25 years.
I can't believe it.
It's gone by so fast, but wehave been deep inside the front
lines of what it's like to beable to deal with the new
economy, the recession, and howto sell with trust and not to
sell with selling.
That's a real big mindset shiftfor most people.
(01:30):
And um, you're here because youunderstand the world has shifted
and you're still um wetted tothe old no-like and trust model,
you're gonna hit a wall prettyquickly, especially as the world
becomes more AI-ish and lesshuman.
Uh, what you'll learn today isthat humanness is how you're
gonna win this game at the endof the day, by not selling
(01:51):
yourself, but by trust building.
And trust building is anentirely different skill set
altogether.
It requires us humans to learn anew skill.
It's not natural, especially ifyou've been taught to sell the
old way uh in the past.
So this show is about uh just uhfirst of all, people jumping on
live to ask me a question.
If you're listening right nowand want to jump in to the queue
(02:13):
in the back of the room to becalled in to the show, just go
to stumpthuru.com and you'll beable to get uh in the queue
there.
If you're watching live, you'llprobably at regalper.com for us
live where you can see me liveon video right now.
Uh, even the recording will goto YouTube afterwards.
But that's where you go to thepage to jump in live or to watch
(02:35):
live at a regalper.com forgethat's live.
Uh so and all those of you whoare new to the show, um, if you
don't know my latest book isTrust in a split second, you can
get a copy of the trustbook.comor join our membership for free
at ori.com slash free uh to joinour uh community.
So look, today we'll we're gonnado a bit of a theme uh around
(02:57):
what I'm experiencing on thefront lines uh each previous
month, uh up until today.
And then whoever's uh onlinewill jump and ask me a question.
And Sam's always there as wellfor us to go back and forth to
share some thoughts.
But I want to talk a bit todayabout uh this idea of showing up
for your first conversation witha new opportunity and how to
(03:18):
deal with the fact that yourpotential prospect has
expectations of you and theyassume you've shown up to do one
thing, and that is to make thesale.
And that's where you would havewhat we call the trust
recession, where you have yourbuyers already assume you're
you're there to with your ownagenda to make that sale.
(03:40):
And when they come into yourmeeting with you thinking that
their wall is up, their guard isup, and if you start to do
certain behaviors that are whatthings you think you should be
doing, like educating, talkingabout yourself, uh engaging into
a relationship, you're goingagainst the flow because they
know those are activities andbehaviors that uh make them
(04:02):
suspicious that you have anagenda which is not theirs.
So our whole concept, thepremise is to let go of your
agenda and to remove all salesbehaviors and languaging that
you're used to and insteadconnect with them where you're
not talking, uh, you'relistening and you're engaging
with them about their problem,but allowing them to share with
(04:24):
you what's going on.
In fact, I just got off a call afew minutes ago with a gentleman
who works for a uh a bathroomrenovation company, and he gets
leads and he goes uh on site forto someone's home for a meeting
to discuss their renovation.
And his company's trained himthat when he shows up at the
(04:46):
front door after saying hello,he gives them a bit of a
preamble.
He says, Look, here's a plantoday.
I'm gonna take a look at yourbathroom, discuss what you're
looking to achieve.
I'm gonna show you threedifferent prices.
One that you can get now, one ata discount, one if you can
decide quickly, but there's nopressure at all, of course.
And I'll share my company, whatwe do, and we'll go from there.
(05:06):
He does a whole pre-salespreamble before he even sort of
has them talk about theirsituation.
And then he's having says hisgoal, he's having trouble with
his conversion rate.
He's only getting 20% uh out ofthe uh 100% of our leads that
are coming through every month.
And he's happy with that numberbecause he thinks that's above
(05:27):
the average.
And I told him that's below ofwhat he should be doing.
Uh, and so we started to worktogether and I helped him
understand that when he shows upin that home, he needs to
essentially stop talking abouthimself.
Stop talking about his company.
He said, No, no, but we've beenaround a long time.
My company tells me I need totalk about what we do.
(05:48):
I said, they don't care, theyknow what you do.
You do pathum renovation, that'swhy they allowed you in their
home.
So stop talking about yourselfand allow them to uh talk about
what's on their mind, whatthey're thinking about.
You don't have to set the wholething up with a preamble for a
close at the end, but reallyhave languaging that makes them
feel comfortable with youbecause they're not buying your
(06:10):
company, they're buying you as ahuman being.
And if you are in any way comingacross the same as everybody
else who showed up that day orthe next day, offering a quote
to do the job, you're acommodity, you're commoditized,
and they're gonna make you chasethem, they're gonna make you
follow up with them.
And I gave him a few tips.
I said, first of all, I want youto replace the word quote and
(06:34):
proposal with the word plan.
And he was kind of shocked.
He said, What do you mean?
That's what we're we do, we doquotes.
I said, get out of the quotebusiness and focus on
customizing a plan for what theybelieve they would like or need.
Uh, that makes you moreconsultative in nature.
Uh, and that was the firstshock.
(06:54):
The next shock I told him was,of course, earlier, I said, Stop
talking about your company andstart with this languaging.
If you wouldn't mind, tell me alittle bit about what you had in
mind with your home and yourbathroom.
What are you thinking aboutsomething more uh utilitarian
where it's just functional only?
Or are you looking about havingsomething more impressive for
(07:14):
yourself to feel good abouthaving an elegant bathroom that
your neighbors would be excitedto see?
Tell me about what you had inmind, what your vision is, and
we'll go from there.
And then you sort of you knowwalk the process with them, and
I and I walked him through howto create a roadmap and how to
show them a process and how tofeel comfortable with him.
And the hardest part of thiswhole process was him not
(07:39):
talking about himself and hiscompany.
And so he's now going throughthe shift, the transformation of
30 years of being trained by hiscompany to be product-centric as
opposed to beingproblem-centric, and to be so
used to hearing his own voicethat he felt that's what his
whole process was based on washim controlling the process.
(08:00):
And it turns out the truth wasthat the other person, the
homeowner, was not feelingcomfortable with him.
And I explained to him thatthey're hiring him, not his
company, and they're gonnadecide on him based on how they
feel about his approach, not onwhat the spec is that he'll do
for them.
So that was a real shift, andhe's excited to learn more.
(08:23):
And I want to share that storyfor everybody to understand that
if you're coming into a firstmeeting with someone with this
preset process with them thatyou've been doing for years, top
by your company or top by yourprevious sales managers or sales
gurus or whatever, then you arestuck in a loop, a loop that's
been going on for years thatyour prospects and customers can
(08:45):
read from you a mile away.
Okay.
And they're gonna shut down.
Now they'll be nice to you,they'll play the game with you,
but they will not trust you.
And you'll be stuck at the endof the call or meeting with, I
want to think about it, call menext week, send me a proposal,
and you'll struggle.
And you'll you'll play thenumbers game, and your your
(09:06):
conversion rate will remain thesame or plateau over time, and
you'll either leave your companyor or if you're own your own
business, try and buy more leadsand solve it that way.
You'll be stuck in this loop.
And this is a loop that we havecrafted code on that no one in
the world has has solved beforein our way, based upon trust.
So I wanted to kind of give thatpreamble today to everyone to
(09:27):
kind of get a sense of how weview the world around where the
sales process is going, um, andwhy, with AI become more
prolific, you have to becomemore human.
Uh, and if you're trying to be ahybrid between the two, you're
gonna be in trouble real quickbecause the reality is humans
will buy from humans they cantrust, not by humans who try to
(09:50):
educate them and impress themwith what they know.
Okay, so uh what we'll do iswe'll open the show up here and
see who we have back there andum for questions.
And if not, of course, Sam'sthere to for us to banter back
and forth and and from that, alot a lot of folks listening and
hear the insights from that.
So Steve, how are we doing backthere?
SPEAKER_01 (10:08):
Sure.
All righty.
I'm gonna bring Sam on thestart.
So we'll go there, look at acouple people with tech issues,
but uh the rest is the livestream is amazing for everybody
that's hearing this.
You can go to arigalper.comslash live.
And uh, we're now hosting itthrough YouTube, so it's
stellar, and uh, I can see morepeople in there than we've ever
had, which is awesome.
So thank you for everybodythat's here today.
And let me bring Sam on rightnow.
(10:29):
Here we go.
What's up, buddy?
How we been?
SPEAKER_04 (10:32):
Hey, how you doing?
Hey, Ari.
Hey Sam, how you doing?
Good, thanks.
Good.
Yeah, look, I love what you justsaid there.
Look, that just encapsulated thewhole process.
And look, I'd encourage anybodyif you're listening to that, if
you just heard what Ari said andyou thought to yourself, that
makes sense, then my questionwould be when would be a good
time to change?
(10:53):
Right?
Because you know, the reality ofit is that sometimes we hear
these things, but we don't applyit.
And if we don't apply it, as yousaid, Ari, we're stuck in that
loop for a very long time.
And what's the default solution?
Well, let's just get more leads,right?
And that's what people usuallywork towards.
(11:14):
I think that's the answer.
I'll just get more leads.
It's not me, it's that prospect,their crappy leads or whatever
it might be, I'll just get moreof them.
And that's just a formula for alot of work and not getting a
lot of gain.
And I like also what you saidabout the minute you walk in the
door, they they're judging you,and that's the reality, and
(11:38):
they're judging you on yourapproach.
And this is a feeling business,and what they sense.
And if they feel that you'retrying to sell them something,
you have an agenda, whichclearly you sort of do when you
start with the whole preamble.
Let me tell you how this isgonna work.
They feel like they're in aframe, they're in a setup.
(11:58):
Okay, that's not very natural.
Natural conversations don'tstart like that.
So they're saying to themselves,you know, Emmy's you gonna try
and sell me something?
And the other thing they'rethinking is, Do I trust him or
her?
Right?
Now, not to say they're nottrustworthy, but they're saying,
Does this person have an agenda?
Are they looking at my bestinterests?
(12:20):
Uh, do I trust them that theywill do the work?
SPEAKER_02 (12:24):
Um, you know, that's you know, Sam.
It's funny about that.
I was talking to a consultantyesterday and I asked him, How
do you start your firstconversations when you meet
someone new, a new lead?
And he basically does the wholefit thing.
Well, uh, you know, the purposeof today is to really get to
know each other a bit better,let me understand you better,
and to see it for a fit.
(12:44):
And if for a fit, then wedecided where to go from there.
Now that sounds reasonable, likein 1990, right?
When everyone knows everyone wasdoing the new thing.
But when you do that now, it'slike a setup, it's a typical
sales setup.
And you know, when I go see adoctor, he doesn't say to me,
Ari, let's see it for a fitbefore we work together, right?
He didn't do that.
(13:05):
It's like it doesn't make sense.
He starts with, tell me aboutwhere it hurts, right?
And and the deep dive beginsfrom there.
So, and you also touched onsomething interesting there.
You said that if you this makessense to you, then why are you
hesitating to make the change?
And I think human beingsnaturally don't want to change,
(13:27):
yeah, they're more comfortablestaying in their zone of
comfort, they'd rather actuallylose sales, lose opportunities,
still keep doing what they'redoing, and look at some other
external factor as to what theproblem is.
Oh, the leads are bad.
Uh oh, I can't get a hold of myyou know, no one answers phones
anymore.
I I tried LinkedIn.
Well, it turns out the channelsaren't the problem.
(13:50):
You're the problem.
Your approach itself sendssignals that you're up to
something for your own gain,you're not there to solve a
problem they may or may nothave.
And that is a subtle difference.
Now, you might say to yourself,Well, I'm not pushy, I'm not a
(14:10):
salesperson.
I I'm very friendly.
I I'm here it is, my favorite.
I'm relationship-based,oriented.
I build relationships withpeople, I'm not a salesperson,
Ari.
And I say, Well, when I go to adoctor, they don't try and build
a relationship with me at all.
Now, through bedside manner andempathy, we do connect, but they
(14:34):
stay problem focused.
And so to make the shift, ifyou're listening, watching live
right now or on the podcast, youhave to commit to learning a new
skill.
I'm sorry, there's no shortcut.
You have to learn how to detoxfrom all the old voices and
behaviors from your old salesmanager from years ago, your
(14:54):
industry conference you went tolast week, who said you need to
be better at closing.
You need to close all that noiseand start fresh on a new path
and to learn how to staypresent, learn how to listen,
and learn how to not interjectquestions when there's empty
silence to move people forward,which is a natural reaction.
(15:14):
So I just kind of wanted tomention those key checkpoints
because once you come throughthe loop on this thing, as we
all know, and our clients knowfor 25 years now, they never go
back anymore because they nowrealize what they were doing was
the actual problem itselfcausing the losses there, Sam.
SPEAKER_04 (15:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think also, you know,change comes from the fact that
you realize how manyopportunities you're losing,
right?
I mean, you know, these are bigticket items, you know, eight
out of 10 that you've lost.
I mean, a lot of people judgethemselves on the ones that they
win and think, yeah, fantastic.
Yeah, but what about how muchyou're losing?
Like that's a lot of money toleave on the table.
(15:52):
And if you were to just changeyour approach and somehow even
get half of the ones you'relosing, look, sometimes you can
even double your business justfrom conversion alone.
You don't need more leads then.
SPEAKER_02 (16:06):
You know what I hear a lot of?
I hear people say, Well, uh oh,Ari, they're most of my leads
are unqualified, so that's whyI'm not converting as high as
I'd like to.
And I say to them, look, ofcourse, most lead flow will have
10, 20 that might be, yeah,homeless people or unqualified.
Um, but you know, how about theother chunk of 40% you're
(16:29):
losing, anyways, who werequalified?
What about those people, right?
So, so you're right, is thatmost businesses and business
owners or sales executives, theyare measured and they focus on a
dashboard that focuses on howmuch they're making from last
quarter, how much they made forthis quarter.
(16:50):
And they think if we increasefrom first to last quarter, hey,
we're doing great.
What they don't look at is thenumber over here, that is kind
of a gray and black and fuzzythat is shows them how much
they've lost every quarter bythe conversions they're not
doing right.
Um, and that's where theyusually bury because they don't
really know how to deal withthat part.
(17:10):
So they just simply say, Well,if we budget out another 50k a
month and get more leads comingin, we'll keep that number keep
going up higher.
So you're getting higher cost oflead, your numbers keep going
up, and everyone's happy.
But no one's looking down theleft-hand corner and going,
Well, what about the 50 peoplein the CRM right now who want to
think about it, have proposals,haven't called us back.
(17:31):
Well, I guess, geez, that's justthe way it goes.
Uh, we just play the numbersgame and get more numbers in.
That's that is the state of themental space for the most people
in selling isn't are in rightnow, in terms of how they
believe it should run.
And that is false becausethey're not focusing on why
they're losing, they're focusedon, and that's about the deal,
(17:53):
it's about the process asopposed to the win.
And that's what we're trying tohelp people highlight to
recognize they can, like yousaid, you can literally double
the revenue in your company thana penny more spent by just
simply doubling your conversionrate right now.
And that's what we have uniqueprocesses for, and we're proud
of that, uh, especially the onecall sale and everything else
(18:15):
that we do, because we are theonly ones in the world to figure
this out how to grow theconversion rate by not pushing
you harder with no moretechniques, but the mindset
shift in the approach.
And that's something we standstrong on, Sam.
SPEAKER_04 (18:28):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And and look, what you said wasreally important is the fact
that you know the prospect won'toutright say to you, look, I
don't like you, I don't trustyou, all those things.
They will be nice about it.
I mean, yeah, we're humanbeings, we don't want to hurt
anybody's feelings, and we'llsay, Yep, sounds great.
Thank you so much.
I like that information.
Let me process that, let methink about it, and I'll get
(18:49):
back to you.
Um, and then, you know, that'sit.
And then that forces you to thenthink, wow, this is a good
opportunity.
Okay, I've got to get back toearth actually thinking about
it, and I'm gonna call them.
And and then that puts you intothe chasing game.
You call them, or somethinghappens, they don't answer, and
then it all starts from there,goes downhill, circuit slope,
you know.
SPEAKER_02 (19:09):
Well, that's that's the hobby, the hobby of it,
right?
Where you can't talk about that.
SPEAKER_04 (19:14):
And you say, Well, they said they were interested,
they said they wanted to thinkabout it, you know, and then and
then we all think that peopleare good people on their word,
and they are, right?
They just didn't want to say toyou, right, that look, you're
like everybody else I spoke tothis week, right?
And and and and the thing thatI'm seeing, you know, people
think, and this is a veryimportant distinction.
(19:35):
People think that trust isdeveloped by showing their
company's brilliance, how longthey've been around for, their
client lists, theirtestimonials.
I got more Google reviews thanyou, you know.
You can trust me.
Um, but that's not the casebecause everybody's got some
kind of credentials,credibility, history.
(19:56):
It's no longer adifferentiation, it's a
commoditized approach.
And and I love the fact thatyour doctor-patient mentality
relationship always works best.
You don't go to a doctor, thedoctor doesn't say, 'Well, let
me tell you where I went toschool, let me tell you my
degrees, look at these ones onmy wall, look at all these
(20:19):
customers, and these are all myreviews.
And we've been doing this for 10years.
Then I start with that, right?'That that's that's right.
It's not natural.
SPEAKER_02 (20:30):
Most people in sales or selling have always thought
that the premise of the decisionis based upon their credentials,
based upon their resume.
And what they don't understandis now in a commoditized market
that we're in, it's based notupon your resume or why you
think you're better, it's basedupon how they feel about the way
(20:52):
you approach them, the wordsthat you use, how you make them
feel.
This is like EQ, right?
This is like high-level EQ.
You have to learn how to engagewith people in a way where you
don't have to flex anymore orpitch yourself anymore because
the ones who come across mostauthentic and don't try and
(21:13):
become their best friend athello, but know how to have the
right language and to go downthe iceberg, as we say, and then
show them a path to solve theirproblem without an agenda, are
the ones who will continue torise above all the noise out
there.
We're seeing it all the time.
I mean, you're uh with with agroup of students each week who
are experiencing this.
(21:33):
I'm on the front lines every daytalking to new opportunities
coming our way, and we'rehelping them see this shift.
And I think what we're trying todo, Sam, here on the show and
everything else that we do inour books is help people make
that shift.
And I think that's what we'rewe're trying to do.
So let's just pause here for asecond.
Let's check back with Steve andsee if anyone else, Steve, is is
back there.
SPEAKER_01 (21:56):
Yeah, absolutely.
Sam, I'm gonna boot you, myfriend.
And let's see.
Let me scroll down here.
David has just come in.
I'm going to bring David on.
He's got a great question foryou, Ari.
Hey, David, how are you?
If you can let everybody knowthat's listening who you are,
what your business is all about.
And then your question for Ari,please.
SPEAKER_03 (22:15):
Thank you, Steve.
Hi, Ari.
Great to see you.
Hey, David, how's it going?
Good, good to see you.
It's going well.
And so I am in the process oflaunching a fractional chief
investment officer service.
And the question I have for youis, Ari, I'd like to get your
insights on how to effectivelywork with prospects who seem to
(22:39):
be trying to score some freeconsulting during prospect
meetings.
SPEAKER_02 (22:46):
So tell me a bit about that.
So you have somebody who I guessshows up for an initial is it
via Zoom, like kind of likethis?
SPEAKER_03 (22:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:54):
An initial meeting.
And obviously assume they'relooking for what you have to
say.
So tell me a little bit abouthow you begin your meeting so I
can sort of see the flow.
What do you say when they showup?
SPEAKER_03 (23:05):
Yeah.
Um, and so um, well, I welcomethem to the meeting.
Um, I um ask them about you knowwhat their greatest needs are in
terms of how I can potentiallyhelp them and things like that.
Um, and it's it's a somewhat umspecial situation with this uh
prospect of the specific.
(23:27):
Um I don't think there's a needto go deep into the weeds of it
during this meeting right now,but um, it's it's a little bit
sort of off the grid from what Inormally do.
At any rate, um he asked mesome, I think, good questions,
but then he also kind ofsometimes slipped in some
questions that basicallynecessitate responses that are
(23:49):
equivalent to that of freeconsultant.
SPEAKER_02 (23:51):
Okay, okay, free free, freeze right there, phrase
right there, David.
Okay.
So ideally, if this process isdone correctly, you should be
the one asking the questions,not him asking you the
questions.
Okay, when he's asking you thequestions, that means that
(24:12):
somehow he's out of yourstructure and he's kind of loose
in his mind trying to figurethings out and extract from you
information to figure out if hecan trust you or not.
Okay, that's what's going onthere.
So, what you need to do, David,is follow a structure where
you're the one asking him thequestions, and by doing that,
(24:33):
he's unraveling the level anddepths of his situation and his
problem, the extent where hehelps you see what the impact to
his issues are, what I call costof an action.
And then at some point, heshares with you the entire 360
view of his world, and you nowunderstand it in full view.
So there's no questions to youat this stage.
(24:55):
You're trying to just unpack hissituation, what I call below the
iceberg.
If you do that in a structuredway with him, then the last
question you'd ask him is isthis a priority for you to
finally have someone come in andget a handle on this to relieve
you of having to do it yourself,whatever the problem is, right?
(25:16):
Yeah, and he says to you, yes,it is.
Then what you do, David, is youwalk him through a roadmap
process, a visual way of whatyour process is to engage with
you.
This this avoids see here's thething: this avoids the questions
because what the reality is, allhe wants to do in the back of
his mind is tell you the truthof his problem, like going to a
(25:39):
doctor.
He doesn't want to have to askyou questions because he doesn't
want to have to pick from youwhat he needs, he wants you to
guide the process.
So I think what's happened hereis the the he's got less
structured on the meeting withyou, and somehow it's gone off
into the forest off the skitrail because the structure you
had with him may not be as tightenough as possible.
(26:00):
What do you think?
Is that possible?
SPEAKER_03 (26:02):
Um, I I I think that that that might play a role, and
I think um I'll I know I knowI'll definitely take your advice
on you know having a set ofquestions to ask him during the
meeting.
Um, so I'm going to be having mythird prospect meeting with him
(26:22):
in a couple of weeks.
Okay.
And so the question I have foryou, Ari, um, is how do you feel
about this as a way of startingthat meeting by me simply asking
him?
Um, I'm just gonna call him Bob.
His name is not Bob, but I'mjust gonna call him Bob.
Bob, um, do you think that thegoal for today's meeting will be
(26:44):
for us to be able to make adecision at the end of today's
meeting as to whether or not youwant to move forward with uh
using me as your consultant?
SPEAKER_02 (26:56):
Something have you have you showed him yet a visual
process map of how you work withclients to engage with them?
SPEAKER_03 (27:06):
Uh no, I have not.
SPEAKER_02 (27:09):
That's what's missing, David.
That's why you have multiplemeetings with him.
He's trying to figure this,you're trying to figure out
together how to work together.
See, there's no what's missinghere is a lack of structure
somewhere in your processbecause he needs to see visually
a tangible process that showshim each phase of what he has to
(27:30):
go through to engage with you.
So you're my phase one might bea discovery phase.
I'm making this up.
Phase two might be analyze allyour finances, phase three might
be put a plan together to builda dashboard.
I don't know what your processis, but I think what's missing
is a structured way to show himhow how you work with a client,
(27:51):
right?
And get him to buy that, buyinto that first.
Say, may I walk you through,Bob, my process for how I'd go
about helping you solve yourproblem.
He's like, Okay, yeah, what howdo you do that?
Out comes the process.
There's four phases phase one,phase two, phase three, phase
(28:13):
four, and you're gonna say tohim, What are your thoughts on
the roadmap process?
SPEAKER_03 (28:18):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (28:18):
Now, if it makes sense, he's gonna say to you,
makes sense.
See, he without the structure,it becomes very loose, and he
can't make a decision.
So you let the structure leadyou to the decision, whether
it's a yes or no at the end.
(28:39):
So, can you work on somehomework for you, David, to work
on a visual process map thatshows how you engage with the
client?
SPEAKER_03 (28:47):
Well, and and I actually have one for my regular
um prospects and clients whoutilize me for my for actual
chief investment officerservice.
The thing is that what he'slooking for is something that is
much more specialized.
Um I I mean, basically what he'sdoing is he is looking into
(29:09):
launching an um investment fundthat specializes in a particular
region of the world that I havedeep expertise in, and he wants
to leverage me for myconnection.
So he knows very he has verylittle pre-existing knowledge of
the business environment withinthis particular region.
(29:31):
And um, I see a a very um alarge investor is interested in
seeding this um fund, and the umthe office that represents that
investor wants to do deep divedue diligence into the viability
(29:56):
of launching a private fund thatspecializes in investments in
that specific region.
So this um person who I've beentalking with, the prospect, he
has very little pre-existingknowledge of this reason.
Sorry, this region.
I got it, I got it.
(30:16):
Business climate, uh, it'sbusiness culture, things like
that.
And so he wants to essentiallyuse me as uh connector to
facilitate conversations.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (30:28):
You're like the ambassador who basically is the
bridge.
I get that, I get that, Itotally do, but even more of a
reason why for him this is ablack hole, he doesn't
understand any of where whatyou're where you do you step in.
He still needs a structuredprocess, David, that shows him
what you're gonna do to help himreach his goal.
(30:51):
So you have to customize a mapfor him in this environment to
show him each phase of whatyou're gonna do in that role to
achieve his goal.
Without that structure, it'll betoo confusing for him to make a
decision, right?
Right, so you still needstructure here, David.
We're gonna say goodbye for now.
We're about at the top of thehour, but I'm so glad you came
(31:13):
in.
Great scenario.
Add that piece of the puzzle andsee what happens after that,
okay?
Thank you so much, Ari.
Good to see you again.
Take care.
We're at the uh top of the showhere, the sub the guru.
And um, again, very fascinatingfor scenario here, as you heard
from David who just came in.
And um, hopefully you're allpicking up on what I'm trying to
say.
(31:33):
Here is that in a complexscenario like that, a buyer
needs a tangible, simplestructure to make a decision
because complexity equalsmistrust and simplicity equals
trust.
If you can't simplify theprocess that you're going to use
to solve a problem for acustomer, they will create more
(31:56):
meetings with you, moreconversations, and it'll get so
messy at the end that they'lldrop off.
So hopefully you got some goodtips from today and from Sam and
I going back and forth.
And again, if you're new to ourworld, please, please get my
latest book at the trustbook.comor join our community for free
at regalper.com forward slashfree.
Get engaged with our communityand begin to learn how to shift
(32:18):
your mindset to a trust-basedmindset uh to catch up with
where the world's going.
So on that note, we'll saygoodbye for now and we'll see
you next time.
SPEAKER_00 (32:27):
We hope you've enjoyed this month's segment of
Stump the Guru and that you'vediscovered some new trust-based
selling strategies that you canapply directly to your sales
process.
You can get access to Ari'strust-based selling 60-minute
masterclass atwww.unlockthegame.com forward
slash video.
(32:48):
And if you want to go one stepfurther, you can order his
latest book, Unlock the SalesGame, and get a free one-on-one
sales growth consultation atwww.unlockthegame.com.
Before we say goodbye for now,if you enjoyed this podcast,
please take a moment to reviewthis podcast.
It's easy.
(33:09):
Just scroll down to the bottomof Tamfaguru Podcast within
Apple Podcasts until you reachratings and reviews.
Click one of the five stars onthe tap to write to leave a
rating.
Thanks so much, and we'll seeyou on the next show.
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