June 24, 2026 • 32 mins
They diagnose, they lead, and they create clarity. That’s what builds trust.
I’ll show you how to adopt this mindset in your selling conversations to establish authority and eliminate uncertainty.
In this month’s Stump The Guru show, I’ll explore why doctors never ask, “Are we a fit?”
I've made it my life’s mission to create the clarity that is missing in the traditional sales process, through decades of working with thousands of business owners all over the world, refining Trust-Based Selling into a true art form:
· Stop "chasing" ghosts (leads that never call you back!)
· Make the sale in ONE conversation, without pressure
· Stop selling, create deep trust instead
I’ve taken my mission one step further and created a livestream show called “Stump The Guru’” -- where you get the opportunity to jump on live and ask me your toughest sales questions that you’d love an answer for.
Get Ari's latest best-selling book "Trust In A Split Second!" for FREE along with a Complimentary Lead & Sales Growth Consultation (Value $995.00) at http://www.UnlockTheGame.com/FreeConsult, and join him as a guest on his podcast "Stump The Guru" and get your chance to ask Ari one-on-one questions, fill in the form to be clickable to this link: https://links.arigalper.com/widget/form/rh5YanDqzZqPHVBCKlKG
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_05 (00:00):
Hi everyone, welcome to Stump the Guru podcast with
your host, Ari Galpa, theworld's number one authority on
trust-based selling and thecreator of Unlock the Game.
This monthly podcast will bringyou guests from virtually every
industry unrehearsed to try andstump Ari with their most
difficult sales challenges.
(00:21):
This podcast is for businessowners, financial advisers,
entrepreneurs and salesexecutives.
The guests on this show haveonly one goal in mind: to stump
Ari.
And Ari has one goal in mind (00:33):
to overturn the notion of selling
as we know it today by buildingtrust between buyers and
sellers.
SPEAKER_04 (00:44):
Hey everybody, welcome to the Stump the Guru
Show.
It's Ari Galper with Trust-BasedSelling.
Hope you're doing well.
We have a large audience aroundthe world who listens to this
through our podcast channels,uh, where we have this recording
there available on YouTube anduh Spotify.
Uh, we are all about uh 100%trust building that replaces
(01:07):
selling in the sales process.
Been doing this for now for twodecades.
We have a large body of workaround this, a large following,
and this is our show wherepeople jump on live and ask me a
question, uh but that'schallenging for them, or where
they're stuck in their salesprocess, or they have an
opportunity they cannot convertanything, or you feel like
you're stuck in your process.
(01:27):
You can come here, ask aquestion, and I'll provide you a
unique perspective from a trustperspective.
Uh so I wanted to mention acouple of things.
First of all, we just launchedour trust academy, our six-month
deep dive program where you canbecome a master practitioner in
trust-based selling.
It starts in a couple of weeks.
Uh, the URL or the website isright in front of you,
(01:50):
regalper.com forward slashacademy.
I'd recommend highly, if youknow my work, to read that page
carefully word for word.
If it resonates with you, thensubmit an application,
expression of interest, and thenwe can have a conversation.
And if we match up, then we'llallow you inside the program.
It's a small group, just 25students only, with our head
(02:12):
coach and business partner, Sam,who I've mentored for many, many
years.
This is the first time we'redoing a real deep dive for
people who understand what wedo, but find themselves slipping
out of the mindset, really needto make this a new muscle in
their body, so to speak, intheir mind, and don't want to
dive dabble in it anymore, butthey want to really get to a
(02:33):
level of master practitioner,not just for yourself, but once
you get this program, you'll beable to also teach other people
in your environment, yourcolleagues, your salespeople,
um, your clients, uh, teachingthem the same thing you're
learning and you by you walkingthe talk.
So we're super excited aboutthis because it's not a
(02:54):
short-term fix, it's a permanentinstallation of a different
mental mindset with a whole setof languaging and processes that
you cannot get through a quickvideo or a quick post or how
we're else learning these days.
So I highly recommend that yougo to arigalper.com, Fortress
Academy if you know my work.
(03:15):
Uh, this is a once-in-a lifetimeonly opportunity.
We've made the enrollment feevery reasonable for people who
are serious about this andcommitted to want to really
master this so they can stopchasing leads, they can stop
doing free consulting, stopeducating people, and get off
the addiction of needing moreleads.
Um, so hopefully that's inspiredsome of you to take a look at
(03:37):
it.
I think you'll you'll enjoy theprogram because uh it's one and
one of a kind.
Uh so look, this show is allabout um uh helping our
listeners and our viewers andour clients and our members to
really understand the depths ofwhat are what's possible inside
a sales conversation by removingthe like and the no process,
(03:59):
which is the relationship partof this, and focusing more of it
like a doctor-patient umrelationship with a prospect who
just who is knowing you for thefirst time.
And the theme for today, andyou'll see that in our post that
led up to today, is this wholeidea of the concept of a fit.
And a lot of us grew up in anage where we are taught by our
(04:20):
mentors of sales coaches thatour whole mentality, our whole
job was to meet with someone forthe first time in our sales
process.
And in our mind, our our conceptis let's see if we're a fit, to
find a match between whatthey're looking for and what we
have to offer.
And we not only have that soingrained in our processes in
(04:41):
the back of our construct, thatwe now we even tell our
prospects, nice to meet you.
Look, we're gonna see if we're afit today.
And if we're a fit, great.
If we're not a fit, uh we won'twork together.
It's a classic sort of salesline that's been used over and
over and over again.
And let me tell you, that nolonger applies in this day and
age in this economy.
(05:01):
And I'll tell you why, becauseyou know, the whole fit concept
worked great when you had aunique product that others
didn't have or very few had,then it made sense for you and
them to say, yes, we're fit.
But now we're in a commoditizedeconomy, what I call the trust
recession, where you're beingshopped.
(05:22):
It's no longer are we a fit.
Now they're shopping you.
And what that does when you usethe whole fit model on top of
your conversations, what you'redoing unknowingly is creating a
peer-to-peer relationship withthem where you're an equal,
you're not an authority, like adoctor, right?
A doctor doesn't say to you,let's see if we're a fit, right?
(05:46):
Because once they do that, itfirst of all be kind of awkward,
but if they did that, it what itdoes, it relegates the
relationship back to a almostlike a friendship, like let's
get together, become friends.
That is not the kind ofstructure you want to have
pre-sale where somebody doesn'ttrust you.
You want to have the positioningand the process and the mindset
(06:08):
to basically be the doctor andnot see if they're fit, but for
you to diagnose their problem,for you to determine if their
problem is serious enough, uh,is costing them enough, and
they're committed to solving itor not.
It has nothing to do with yourif you're fit or not, because
the meeting isn't about you twotogether at all.
(06:30):
Your first meeting is only aboutyour ability to unpack, go down
the iceberg, and really get tothe bottom of their issues.
So they say to you this phrase,how can you help me?
That's not a fit moment.
That's the patient's hand to thedoctor, how can you help me?
Uh, and so I want to begin togive you permission to let go of
(06:52):
this concept that you believeyour job is to see if you're fit
with these prospects.
Because the the the structurehas changed.
They're shopping you, they'renot saying themselves, are we a
fit?
We're saying it, it's not it's amismatch.
So anybody that's taught youthis concept um it just does not
(07:13):
fit with where the world istoday because the market is
ruthless and your prospects uhview you as one of many.
And they aren't looking for afriend, they aren't looking for
a peer relationship, I promiseyou.
Now, of course, once they're aclient, then you build a
relationship with them, but notbefore they're a client.
(07:34):
That just breaks all the trustprocess.
Why?
Because when you start yourprocess with a mindset of I'm
gonna build a relationship withthis person, what you're
automatically doing is extendingyour entire sales cycle from to
multiple steps, a long salescycle, and trust does not arrive
(07:55):
until the end of the processonce the relationship is built.
So think about it for a second.
You've got someone on a Zoommeeting or a physical meeting
who came through throughreferral or a lead through
LinkedIn or however you get yourleads.
And now what you're doing isstarting the process building a
relationship with them.
You're automatically extendingthe time that it takes for them
(08:18):
to trust you.
Why would you do that?
That makes no sense becausethey're already off to shop for
somebody else once you gave theman education and information.
So back to the theme today.
Your goal is not to see ifyou're fit with your prospects.
Your goal is to see if theirproblem is serious enough and
(08:38):
grave enough, and the impact ofit is large enough for them to
commit to their own problem,then you can walk them through
the treatment plan for how tosolve that problem.
So I want you to think aboutthat today and ask yourself if
you're still going into yourconversations, trying to see if
you're fit and trying to bondwith them and trying to build a
relationship with them, which isactually killing your trust
(09:00):
process, which I now soundscontrarian.
But this is why we're launchingour trust academy, because in
the trust academy process, we'llbe addressing all those myths,
all those constructs you'reprobably still holding on to
from all the years of the inputyou've gotten.
And it requires a shift in yourthinking and languaging and
process to catch up with wherethe economy is going.
(09:23):
If you're hiring new people ornew salespeople, they definitely
need to get this on board nowrather than getting old habits,
and then it's too late by then.
So we'll open up the show uh andwe'll see who's in there in the
background today who wants tojump in and ask me a question.
I know Sam's here, my businesspartner as well, and we have a
lot to riff off all the time,riff on all the time.
So um, because he's he's in thefront line just like me every
(09:45):
single day.
So, Steve, how are we doing backthere?
SPEAKER_03 (09:47):
Alrighty.
So nobody else is wearing blueand orange but me for our New
York Knicks.
I'm shamed to know the two ofyou, you and Sam, darn you both.
I'm gonna bring Derek on, who Ido talk about basketball with
from time to time.
Hey Derek, how are you today,buddy?
SPEAKER_02 (10:02):
I'm good, Steve, and congrats to the Knicks.
So long time coming.
Hey, Ari.
Um, I got a question.
This one's a bit of an unusualone.
So I've been dealing with thisum this particular opportunity
um probably for the last fewmonths.
You know, the funds are there,cost of an action is there.
(10:24):
The challenge is that um thisindividual is managing a team of
three different sites, and she'srefusing to take responsibility
on action to do something.
She's putting the bonus on allthe members of her team.
It has gotten to the point wherethe members of her team have
said, I don't care who wechoose, let's just choose a
(10:47):
solution because we haveproblems and we need to fix
them.
So she basically said to herteam, Well, you guys got to
decide.
I can't decide for you.
So I'm trying to I, you know,and and Ari, it's it's gotten to
the point where you know,members of my internal team have
been saying, Why are you stilldealing with this person?
(11:09):
And the thing is, if I lose thisopportunity, it's gonna put
other um sites at risk within myaccount because then they'll
find out, oh, we went withsomebody else, and that.
Um, but I'm trying to figure outa way, languaging or something
that I can use to you know pullout the elephant in the room,
(11:29):
and that this is getting out ofcontrol right now.
SPEAKER_04 (11:32):
Because it's are you saying, are you saying that
she's afraid to take aleadership role and lead to help
them make a decision?
And she's delegating the wholething to them.
SPEAKER_02 (11:44):
That's right.
SPEAKER_04 (11:46):
I see this all the time, Derek, and more and more
all the time.
I had a call myself just acouple days ago with a CEO and a
couple of salespeople as head ofsales, and we went through the
same process you're goingthrough.
We unpacked their problems, andthey are losing so much money
every month on conversionbecause your sales team's
chasing leads, doing everythingwrong.
(12:08):
Um and they they were alltalking, admitting, like, you're
right, you're right, you'reright.
We yeah, I hate doing this, andwe're losing.
I swear, this was happeninglive.
I'm saying to myself, Wow,they're kind of getting it.
And at the end, the CEO who's adecision maker says uh says to
like it's his money too, likesays to the everyone else in the
line, they he says, So what doyou all think?
(12:34):
I'm like, think about what wejust laid out your problem, and
then they all look at each othernow.
Goth that work in the samecompany, you got a boss there's
politics.
They all look around and go,Yeah, well, I think it sounds
good.
And and I said, Well, what doyou mean you think it sounds
(12:54):
good?
The real question here is do youwant to solve your problem or
not?
That's costing you eightythousand dollars a month in lost
conversion in your salespersontime and your need to spend more
money on leads.
Do you want to solve thisproblem or not?
I I said this with a smile on myface because I don't want to,
you know, and and then theysaid, Well, this is this is
(13:16):
amazing to me.
They said, Well, why don't wediscuss it and we'll let you
know?
I'm like, discuss what so whatI'm trying to say is this is
more common than not, more oftenthan not, because the leaders in
these companies are afraid toadd innovation and to show a
(13:38):
path to their people becausethey want to preserve their
culture of everyone sharingtheir ideas, you know, that's
which is great, but somebodysomebody has to lead the way and
make the decision whether peoplewant to do it or not, and that
was astounds to me.
So, anyways, back back to yourscenario.
(14:00):
Um what kind of relationshipwould you have with her?
Is she you guys get along, or isshe a bit detached, or do you
feel like you have somethingpersonal with her?
SPEAKER_02 (14:13):
We get along, Ari.
There's no question.
I think I I think now it'sgotten to the point where now
she's pre-screening my calls.
And so um why is she doing that?
Well, the reason being isbecause and there's um she
wanted to do one final thing,get so two or three stakeholders
(14:34):
involved to do some testing, andum, she was supposed to provide
us some deliverables for that,and she did not come across it.
Um, you know, I was using REAIto communicate in that, and now
she's blocked me.
SPEAKER_04 (14:49):
So hold on, this is like a whole different issue
now, Derek.
If she's blocking you, thattells me she doesn't trust you.
Yeah.
So I'm just trying to helpunpack this because there's one
thing you're saying about whatshe's not doing.
Now, the fact she's not evenopen to talking to you about
(15:10):
this tells me something else wasbroken earlier on between you
and her, somewhere in yourprocess where she's now blocking
you, not talking to you, becauseshe must she must be feeling
from you that you're maybeattempting to move this thing
forward, and maybe she feelssome pressure, and that's why
she's blocked you out.
I don't know.
I'm thinking out loud here.
(15:30):
What do you think?
SPEAKER_02 (15:32):
Probably.
Well, that's why I've I backedoff on this.
Sorry, but she's done thisbefore and then she's come back.
Um, so this is nothing new.
Um, she's gets overwhelmed andand then she circles back.
So I I I recognize this pattern.
Um, so I'm not taking itpersonally, but sure.
SPEAKER_04 (15:50):
No, no, I wouldn't take it personal, but sounds
like whatever has happened priorto today has caused her to put
her guard up with you.
SPEAKER_02 (16:01):
Yeah, because the thing is, Ari is when it's
happened in the past and shesaid, I'm gonna get to this and
this.
It she doesn't, you know.
SPEAKER_04 (16:13):
I get it, she's she's she's stalling and
procrastinating, and you'reprobably probably your
frustration is being conveyed uhsomewhere to her in your
follow-up process to her out ofexasperation, saying, Come on.
So now she's like, Okay, I gottaback off.
So it's like this sort ofaccordion kind of listen this
dysfunction dysfunctionalrelationship between you and
(16:36):
her.
Don't ever go out with her, it'snot gonna go very well.
No, but but I'm just joking.
But I think I think the firstthing here, Derek, is we have to
recognize what it is, what it isin the right sequence.
Okay, I think the first step hasto happen here is we have to
diffuse the tension between youand her, right?
(16:56):
That doesn't happen, nothing isgonna happen, anyways.
So have you thought about haveyou attempted the apology
approach yet with her?
SPEAKER_02 (17:06):
I haven't, Ari.
I mean, I the the fall on thesword.
Um, I'm I think when to use thatbecause I I also think in the
past you had some beautifullanguaging, and I don't remember
to really call out the elephantin the room when somebody stalls
and feels like we're at a so I'mtrying to figure out the order
(17:26):
of things.
I mean, to me, if she haddisappeared for two, three
months, I would use the fall onthe sword approach, no problem.
SPEAKER_04 (17:33):
No, but she's ignoring your calls now.
Yeah, so maybe that it's time topull out the fall in your sword
approach.
Here's what you need to do,Derek.
You gotta leave her a message ordrop her email around the
message of uh hi, you know,first name.
Uh, hope you're well.
I I've I haven't heard back fromyou.
(17:55):
I've left you a message or two,and I just want to apologize.
It it's possible that somewherein our conversations recently, I
may have not fully given youwhat you needed or not answered
your questions, or maybe youfeel some pressure in some way
from me, and I want to apologizefor that.
Um, because I I only want tohelp and I don't want to in any
(18:17):
way make you feel uncomfortablewith the whole process.
Um, if you can provide me anyfeedback to help me um kind of
be better at this, this it wouldbe great.
Um, I just wanted to make itmake it good between you and I
to make sure what we'recomfortable together to have a
chat or something around thatconcept.
You just need to fall on yoursword somewhere here because you
got to break the tension, yougotta somehow bring the guard
(18:38):
down, otherwise you can't evenget past square first base.
It's you and her now, it's notthe other problem right now.
The first problem is you andher, the second problem is her
and the team.
Now, let's just say you do this,Derek, and you get a
breakthrough and she talks toyou.
Oh thank you.
An actual I could talk to her.
Yep.
(18:59):
Then if you if you crack meltthe ice on the first level, then
the next level would say, let'ssay her name is Julie.
Julie, I've been thinking moreabout your situation, and I've
been realizing I've beenthinking more about how you're
having your team decide whatthey want to do, and I know they
expressed they want to dosomething.
Um, would you be open to makinga recommendation to them to do
(19:23):
we initiate at least this firstphase in the process and have
you lead that process becausemaybe they need that direction
uh to be able to finally maketheir decision?
Would can we come up with somesomething around that, a
strategy around that where youtake the first step on this?
Would that even be possible atall?
I would just present that to heras a kind of message saying, I
(19:47):
need you, you need to dosomething to lead the way,
otherwise, no one's gonna goanywhere here, and you're kind
of stuck between two places theproblem and the solution.
And I'm trying to get you out ofthe middle of that, right?
Or maybe you have other ideas.
What do you recommend, Julie?
See how I'm saying it?
(20:08):
It's like we're a team on thistogether.
We have a stalemate, we have astalemate, it's frozen, right?
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_02 (20:16):
I I I agree, Ari, and I think it's gotta it's
gotta shift that way rather thanbecause you know, here's two
things that I think are gonnahappen.
Number one is she's probably uhshe might be open to it, and I
haven't taken that approach orsecond, she goes back to the
team thing, and and we have toshift away from that because
(20:39):
correct, yeah.
So if she happens to go, well,you know, I don't know, I gotta
check with the team, and youknow, some way Ari, I have to
keep moving the needle the otherway, and and and I'm trying to
think how can I do that withoutkind of irritating her or
upsetting her.
SPEAKER_04 (20:59):
I understand.
Yeah, only way I can do that isto ask her how what she thinks
is the best process to move outof the stalemate and to provide
her other offices the path tomove something forward, at least
to a first step.
Because it sounds like they theythey on their own won't do
(21:19):
without her her rubber her stampof approval.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_02 (21:25):
It's not without it's it's it's I think she's
just afraid to take theresponsibility.
SPEAKER_04 (21:31):
So why is she afraid?
What's she afraid might happen?
SPEAKER_02 (21:36):
She's afraid that she chooses a solution, and then
there could be one group ofpeople that go, you know what, I
don't like the solution orwhatever that we went with.
SPEAKER_04 (21:48):
But aren't they already bought in on it?
You said they were already agung ho about the solving it,
weren't they the solution ornot?
SPEAKER_02 (21:56):
They're they're not.
They're not.
SPEAKER_04 (22:00):
Because I thought you said they were saying the
problem they recognize is theywant to work on solving.
SPEAKER_02 (22:05):
Well, they they recognize the problem they won
want to solve, absolutely.
And so it's between us andanother vendor, and and
literally it's like let's justchoose one.
That's what it's gotten to thepoint.
Let's just choose something.
You know, you use both the same?
There's some nuances, somedifferences, but I but at the
(22:26):
end of the day, I mean it's justthey need to solve these issues.
That's the problem.
SPEAKER_04 (22:38):
Have you been in contact at all with those other
uh offices, the key people overthere?
SPEAKER_02 (22:42):
Only her sorry, the the other officers.
SPEAKER_04 (22:48):
Have you been in contact with the other key
people besides her?
SPEAKER_02 (22:52):
Absolutely.
I've gone on site, I've talkedto all the other uh
stakeholders.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (22:58):
Why don't you ask them for their advice?
Why don't you ask them, John,what would you recommend we do
at this point?
It sounds like nothing'shappening.
What what are your thoughts?
Because I think, Derek, you'reout of answers only because
you're on the outside, not theinside.
The inside has the answers.
Honestly, if it was me, I'd betalking to each of those people
(23:20):
around her and asking them fortheir feedback and their advice
how they suggest we proceed.
That's the bottom line.
They're motivated.
Sounds like they're motivated,they want to work on the
problem, right?
SPEAKER_02 (23:37):
Yeah, they want they want to work on the problem,
yeah.
But we have you we have adouble-edged sword here where we
have a leader can't make adecision, they want to choose a
solution, you know.
SPEAKER_04 (23:48):
So start start with them, not her.
SPEAKER_02 (23:52):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (23:53):
Ask them what they recommend as the best process to
make this happen.
Because you can say, I'm out ofideas.
What do you guys recommend?
That's what I would do.
Fall on your sword with them.
Okay, see what they say.
I bet you they'll think of anidea you haven't thought of yet.
SPEAKER_02 (24:13):
You never know.
I'll see.
SPEAKER_04 (24:15):
All right, Eric, good to see you again.
SPEAKER_02 (24:16):
Yeah, you too.
Thanks, sorry.
SPEAKER_04 (24:18):
All right, we're back to stuff the guru show.
As you can see, we often havevery thorny, kind of uh
challenging, complex issues thatcan come up, and you can see all
the layers that we're in thatsituation.
And when you're in the middle ofthese challenges, it's hard to
see the layers.
And so, part of our work that wedo here and we teach our clients
to do as well is to really see a360 view of the scenario and
(24:43):
break it down, look at all thesituations and look, find out
where the open doors are to getto the truth, not the sale, the
truth of what's really going on.
And oftentimes people on theinside will have the path and
the answer to help you solvetheir problem as long as they
trust you to be vulnerable withyou and tell you what's really
(25:04):
happening, and because theywould know the nuances in this
scenario of how to proceed, asopposed to an outsider versus an
insider.
So these are the kind of thornyissues that we work with a lot
uh in our processes.
And and I can tell you ingeneral, what you're seeing here
is a classic example of howselling in itself has become so
dysfunctional and so complex,very difficult to untangle if
(25:27):
you're thinking from salesperspective versus trust
perspective.
So we've got a few minutes leftover.
Anyone else uh left over there,Steve?
SPEAKER_03 (25:35):
Yeah, I'll bring Sam on.
So Sam's we've got some others,but they haven't the cameras
aren't on.
So let me just apologize to Sam.
Sam, we were talking in Slacklast week.
I'm sorry.
Australia got just throttled.
I don't know what to tell you,man.
You you you know, New York ishumming right now, USA is going
nuts with the Knicks, and itcarried over to soccer, the
(25:55):
sport I have no clue about.
But uh yeah, man, I'm gonna I'mgonna leave you two at it.
SPEAKER_00 (26:01):
I I thought my tumbleweeds cricket message was
a bit enough, but to apologizefor it anyway.
Yeah, no, it was it was uh itwas a good game for you guys.
Sam, what are your thoughts onon today's conversations?
SPEAKER_01 (26:14):
Yeah, look, excellent, Ari.
I mean, one of the things goingback to what you talked about
about the doctor-patient sort ofrelationship, one of the things
I'm hearing a lot from clients,and it's a behavior that they're
doing, and I'd like to get yourperspective on it.
And it's probably somethingyou've come across, but people
feel like they've got to go intothe conversation, they have to
do this framing, right?
(26:35):
They've got to frame theconversation.
They say, Look, okay, so look,let me tell you what's gonna
happen here.
Uh, you're gonna talk a littlebit about you, I'm gonna talk a
little bit, I'm gonna tell you alittle bit about the process,
and then if we're a fit exactlywhat you said before, but
actually start with this wholeconcept of framing the
conversation, right?
(26:55):
What are your thoughts aroundthat?
Are you seeing that as well?
SPEAKER_04 (26:59):
Uh, yeah, you know, the more I think about it, when
I start with new clients, I askthem what how do they start
their meetings, and most of themstart framing with the prospect
to try and control everything.
This comes from some old salestraining programs that are out
in the market now who teach thiswhole idea of overlaying a
(27:21):
structure on top of theconversation in advance to
squeeze out the answer at theend.
And just as I describe it toyou, that's pressure oriented on
the other person who doesn'tknow you.
And so, as you know, we teachnot to do any of that uh because
your goal is trust building, notgetting a yes at the end, but
(27:45):
getting to the truth of whethertheir problem deserves a
solution or not, and that's adifferent trajectory which
changes the approach.
SPEAKER_01 (27:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think you know what yousaid was perfect.
I mean, it creates pressure,even if it's subtle.
I mean, you go into aconversation, you don't really
know what's happening, otherthan the fact that you know what
the person does, you know whatthey do, and you're going into
it quite genuinely open, and allof a sudden you the first thing
that comes out of their mouth isright, this is the framework of
(28:12):
how we're gonna have thisconversation.
We're gonna go through this,that, and the other thing, and
then we're gonna have anoutcome.
I mean, to me, that's like, oh,geez, okay.
Now I'm on the box seat here.
I've got to comply to thisframework.
I'm stressed.
SPEAKER_04 (28:26):
Well, it's it's like the doctor doesn't say, Look,
here's the plan for today.
All right, we're gonna do this.
No, that's for they say to you,where does it hurt?
And then it's a natural way youengage with an authority, it's
the way you begin to feelcomfortable opening up to people
by adding that frame and thewhole fit concept.
What it does is it compressesthe trust, the space of trust to
(28:48):
allow the other person to bevulnerable with you to open up
to you.
And I think that's the lessonhere as we come to a conclusion,
is that the goal is not to sellto somebody, the goal is to
create enough space with themwhere they feel comfortable
telling you the truth and theytrust you to deep level, where
(29:10):
they themselves drive thingsforward.
And of course, you're teachingthe trust academy coming up.
And I'm encouraging everyonelistening today to go to the the
aregalper.com forward slashacademy and read that page
carefully and watch the videoand understand the philosophy
and approach that we believe hasbeen working for so many years
and is so important.
(29:31):
And of course, you walk the talkand you'll be teaching that
program, and I'll be a guest whocould bring in every once in a
while.
But I think hopefully fromtoday, people have picked up
that our way of thinking isdifferent than other other ways
of thinking, and it's not foreveryone, but those who resonate
will be a good fit.
So, any last thoughts for you onmaybe the Trust Academy program
as well?
SPEAKER_01 (29:51):
Yeah, look, I mean, look, the fact is that there's
been a lot of conditionedthinking and a lot of people
doing things the old way.
And look, it's not working.
Times have changed, it's acommoditized environment,
there's plenty of people that dowhat you do.
And if you're happy with sort ofliving in that world and and
losing a lot of qualifiedopportunities, because the main
reason is that you know trust isthe broken piece, it's a trust
(30:13):
recession.
And if you want to move out ofthat, then there is a path
forward, and you know what?
It's more natural, it's moreauthentic, it's just more of a
pleasure.
And once you know, you look backand you think that old way just
didn't work, and and the new wayis it's just a new learning
skill, a new muscle.
(30:34):
If you can embrace that, itreally becomes a game changer.
It's as simple as that.
SPEAKER_04 (30:38):
Look, in the day and age of AI, only way you win this
game is by you mastering the artof human-to-human trust
building.
That's the last gap left topreserve your business and
success over time.
So, on that note, Sam, thanksfor being here.
Uh, again, if you have not goneto the academy page yet, go to
arigalper.com forward slashacademy immediately.
(31:01):
We only have 25 spots that willbe closing very soon when we
start in July.
And I'd encourage you to be opento challenging your own thinking
and deep diving into atrust-based approach to help you
succeed with what's happening inthe world these days.
So, on that note, thanks forcoming today, and we'll see you
all next time.
See you all right.
SPEAKER_05 (31:20):
We hope you've enjoyed this month's segment of
Stump the Guru and that you'vediscovered some new trust-based
selling strategies that you canapply directly to your sales
process.
You can get access to Ari'strust-based selling 60-minute
masterclass atwww.unlockthegame.com forward
slash video.
(31:41):
And if you want to go one stepfurther, you can order his
latest book, Unlock the SalesGame, and get a free one-on-one
sales growth consultation atwww.unlockthegame.com.
Before we say goodbye for now,if you enjoyed this podcast,
please take a moment to reviewthis podcast.
It's easy.
(32:02):
Just scroll down to the bottomof Stump the Guru Podcast within
Apple Podcasts until you reachratings and reviews.
Click one of the five starsunder Tap to Rate to leave a
rating.
Thanks so much, and we'll seeyou on the next show.
Hi everyone, welcome to Stump the Guru podcast with
your host, Ari Galpa, theworld's number one authority on
trust-based selling and thecreator of Unlock the Game.
This monthly podcast will bringyou guests from virtually every
industry unrehearsed to try andstump Ari with their most
difficult sales challenges.
(00:21):
This podcast is for businessowners, financial advisers,
entrepreneurs and salesexecutives.
The guests on this show haveonly one goal in mind: to stump
Ari.
And Ari has one goal in mind (00:33):
to overturn the notion of selling
as we know it today by buildingtrust between buyers and
sellers.
SPEAKER_04 (00:44):
Hey everybody, welcome to the Stump the Guru
Show.
It's Ari Galper with Trust-BasedSelling.
Hope you're doing well.
We have a large audience aroundthe world who listens to this
through our podcast channels,uh, where we have this recording
there available on YouTube anduh Spotify.
Uh, we are all about uh 100%trust building that replaces
(01:07):
selling in the sales process.
Been doing this for now for twodecades.
We have a large body of workaround this, a large following,
and this is our show wherepeople jump on live and ask me a
question, uh but that'schallenging for them, or where
they're stuck in their salesprocess, or they have an
opportunity they cannot convertanything, or you feel like
you're stuck in your process.
(01:27):
You can come here, ask aquestion, and I'll provide you a
unique perspective from a trustperspective.
Uh so I wanted to mention acouple of things.
First of all, we just launchedour trust academy, our six-month
deep dive program where you canbecome a master practitioner in
trust-based selling.
It starts in a couple of weeks.
Uh, the URL or the website isright in front of you,
(01:50):
regalper.com forward slashacademy.
I'd recommend highly, if youknow my work, to read that page
carefully word for word.
If it resonates with you, thensubmit an application,
expression of interest, and thenwe can have a conversation.
And if we match up, then we'llallow you inside the program.
It's a small group, just 25students only, with our head
(02:12):
coach and business partner, Sam,who I've mentored for many, many
years.
This is the first time we'redoing a real deep dive for
people who understand what wedo, but find themselves slipping
out of the mindset, really needto make this a new muscle in
their body, so to speak, intheir mind, and don't want to
dive dabble in it anymore, butthey want to really get to a
(02:33):
level of master practitioner,not just for yourself, but once
you get this program, you'll beable to also teach other people
in your environment, yourcolleagues, your salespeople,
um, your clients, uh, teachingthem the same thing you're
learning and you by you walkingthe talk.
So we're super excited aboutthis because it's not a
(02:54):
short-term fix, it's a permanentinstallation of a different
mental mindset with a whole setof languaging and processes that
you cannot get through a quickvideo or a quick post or how
we're else learning these days.
So I highly recommend that yougo to arigalper.com, Fortress
Academy if you know my work.
(03:15):
Uh, this is a once-in-a lifetimeonly opportunity.
We've made the enrollment feevery reasonable for people who
are serious about this andcommitted to want to really
master this so they can stopchasing leads, they can stop
doing free consulting, stopeducating people, and get off
the addiction of needing moreleads.
Um, so hopefully that's inspiredsome of you to take a look at
(03:37):
it.
I think you'll you'll enjoy theprogram because uh it's one and
one of a kind.
Uh so look, this show is allabout um uh helping our
listeners and our viewers andour clients and our members to
really understand the depths ofwhat are what's possible inside
a sales conversation by removingthe like and the no process,
(03:59):
which is the relationship partof this, and focusing more of it
like a doctor-patient umrelationship with a prospect who
just who is knowing you for thefirst time.
And the theme for today, andyou'll see that in our post that
led up to today, is this wholeidea of the concept of a fit.
And a lot of us grew up in anage where we are taught by our
(04:20):
mentors of sales coaches thatour whole mentality, our whole
job was to meet with someone forthe first time in our sales
process.
And in our mind, our our conceptis let's see if we're a fit, to
find a match between whatthey're looking for and what we
have to offer.
And we not only have that soingrained in our processes in
(04:41):
the back of our construct, thatwe now we even tell our
prospects, nice to meet you.
Look, we're gonna see if we're afit today.
And if we're a fit, great.
If we're not a fit, uh we won'twork together.
It's a classic sort of salesline that's been used over and
over and over again.
And let me tell you, that nolonger applies in this day and
age in this economy.
(05:01):
And I'll tell you why, becauseyou know, the whole fit concept
worked great when you had aunique product that others
didn't have or very few had,then it made sense for you and
them to say, yes, we're fit.
But now we're in a commoditizedeconomy, what I call the trust
recession, where you're beingshopped.
(05:22):
It's no longer are we a fit.
Now they're shopping you.
And what that does when you usethe whole fit model on top of
your conversations, what you'redoing unknowingly is creating a
peer-to-peer relationship withthem where you're an equal,
you're not an authority, like adoctor, right?
A doctor doesn't say to you,let's see if we're a fit, right?
(05:46):
Because once they do that, itfirst of all be kind of awkward,
but if they did that, it what itdoes, it relegates the
relationship back to a almostlike a friendship, like let's
get together, become friends.
That is not the kind ofstructure you want to have
pre-sale where somebody doesn'ttrust you.
You want to have the positioningand the process and the mindset
(06:08):
to basically be the doctor andnot see if they're fit, but for
you to diagnose their problem,for you to determine if their
problem is serious enough, uh,is costing them enough, and
they're committed to solving itor not.
It has nothing to do with yourif you're fit or not, because
the meeting isn't about you twotogether at all.
(06:30):
Your first meeting is only aboutyour ability to unpack, go down
the iceberg, and really get tothe bottom of their issues.
So they say to you this phrase,how can you help me?
That's not a fit moment.
That's the patient's hand to thedoctor, how can you help me?
Uh, and so I want to begin togive you permission to let go of
(06:52):
this concept that you believeyour job is to see if you're fit
with these prospects.
Because the the the structurehas changed.
They're shopping you, they'renot saying themselves, are we a
fit?
We're saying it, it's not it's amismatch.
So anybody that's taught youthis concept um it just does not
(07:13):
fit with where the world istoday because the market is
ruthless and your prospects uhview you as one of many.
And they aren't looking for afriend, they aren't looking for
a peer relationship, I promiseyou.
Now, of course, once they're aclient, then you build a
relationship with them, but notbefore they're a client.
(07:34):
That just breaks all the trustprocess.
Why?
Because when you start yourprocess with a mindset of I'm
gonna build a relationship withthis person, what you're
automatically doing is extendingyour entire sales cycle from to
multiple steps, a long salescycle, and trust does not arrive
(07:55):
until the end of the processonce the relationship is built.
So think about it for a second.
You've got someone on a Zoommeeting or a physical meeting
who came through throughreferral or a lead through
LinkedIn or however you get yourleads.
And now what you're doing isstarting the process building a
relationship with them.
You're automatically extendingthe time that it takes for them
(08:18):
to trust you.
Why would you do that?
That makes no sense becausethey're already off to shop for
somebody else once you gave theman education and information.
So back to the theme today.
Your goal is not to see ifyou're fit with your prospects.
Your goal is to see if theirproblem is serious enough and
(08:38):
grave enough, and the impact ofit is large enough for them to
commit to their own problem,then you can walk them through
the treatment plan for how tosolve that problem.
So I want you to think aboutthat today and ask yourself if
you're still going into yourconversations, trying to see if
you're fit and trying to bondwith them and trying to build a
relationship with them, which isactually killing your trust
(09:00):
process, which I now soundscontrarian.
But this is why we're launchingour trust academy, because in
the trust academy process, we'llbe addressing all those myths,
all those constructs you'reprobably still holding on to
from all the years of the inputyou've gotten.
And it requires a shift in yourthinking and languaging and
process to catch up with wherethe economy is going.
(09:23):
If you're hiring new people ornew salespeople, they definitely
need to get this on board nowrather than getting old habits,
and then it's too late by then.
So we'll open up the show uh andwe'll see who's in there in the
background today who wants tojump in and ask me a question.
I know Sam's here, my businesspartner as well, and we have a
lot to riff off all the time,riff on all the time.
So um, because he's he's in thefront line just like me every
(09:45):
single day.
So, Steve, how are we doing backthere?
SPEAKER_03 (09:47):
Alrighty.
So nobody else is wearing blueand orange but me for our New
York Knicks.
I'm shamed to know the two ofyou, you and Sam, darn you both.
I'm gonna bring Derek on, who Ido talk about basketball with
from time to time.
Hey Derek, how are you today,buddy?
SPEAKER_02 (10:02):
I'm good, Steve, and congrats to the Knicks.
So long time coming.
Hey, Ari.
Um, I got a question.
This one's a bit of an unusualone.
So I've been dealing with thisum this particular opportunity
um probably for the last fewmonths.
You know, the funds are there,cost of an action is there.
(10:24):
The challenge is that um thisindividual is managing a team of
three different sites, and she'srefusing to take responsibility
on action to do something.
She's putting the bonus on allthe members of her team.
It has gotten to the point wherethe members of her team have
said, I don't care who wechoose, let's just choose a
(10:47):
solution because we haveproblems and we need to fix
them.
So she basically said to herteam, Well, you guys got to
decide.
I can't decide for you.
So I'm trying to I, you know,and and Ari, it's it's gotten to
the point where you know,members of my internal team have
been saying, Why are you stilldealing with this person?
(11:09):
And the thing is, if I lose thisopportunity, it's gonna put
other um sites at risk within myaccount because then they'll
find out, oh, we went withsomebody else, and that.
Um, but I'm trying to figure outa way, languaging or something
that I can use to you know pullout the elephant in the room,
(11:29):
and that this is getting out ofcontrol right now.
SPEAKER_04 (11:32):
Because it's are you saying, are you saying that
she's afraid to take aleadership role and lead to help
them make a decision?
And she's delegating the wholething to them.
SPEAKER_02 (11:44):
That's right.
SPEAKER_04 (11:46):
I see this all the time, Derek, and more and more
all the time.
I had a call myself just acouple days ago with a CEO and a
couple of salespeople as head ofsales, and we went through the
same process you're goingthrough.
We unpacked their problems, andthey are losing so much money
every month on conversionbecause your sales team's
chasing leads, doing everythingwrong.
(12:08):
Um and they they were alltalking, admitting, like, you're
right, you're right, you'reright.
We yeah, I hate doing this, andwe're losing.
I swear, this was happeninglive.
I'm saying to myself, Wow,they're kind of getting it.
And at the end, the CEO who's adecision maker says uh says to
like it's his money too, likesays to the everyone else in the
line, they he says, So what doyou all think?
(12:34):
I'm like, think about what wejust laid out your problem, and
then they all look at each othernow.
Goth that work in the samecompany, you got a boss there's
politics.
They all look around and go,Yeah, well, I think it sounds
good.
And and I said, Well, what doyou mean you think it sounds
(12:54):
good?
The real question here is do youwant to solve your problem or
not?
That's costing you eightythousand dollars a month in lost
conversion in your salespersontime and your need to spend more
money on leads.
Do you want to solve thisproblem or not?
I I said this with a smile on myface because I don't want to,
you know, and and then theysaid, Well, this is this is
(13:16):
amazing to me.
They said, Well, why don't wediscuss it and we'll let you
know?
I'm like, discuss what so whatI'm trying to say is this is
more common than not, more oftenthan not, because the leaders in
these companies are afraid toadd innovation and to show a
(13:38):
path to their people becausethey want to preserve their
culture of everyone sharingtheir ideas, you know, that's
which is great, but somebodysomebody has to lead the way and
make the decision whether peoplewant to do it or not, and that
was astounds to me.
So, anyways, back back to yourscenario.
(14:00):
Um what kind of relationshipwould you have with her?
Is she you guys get along, or isshe a bit detached, or do you
feel like you have somethingpersonal with her?
SPEAKER_02 (14:13):
We get along, Ari.
There's no question.
I think I I think now it'sgotten to the point where now
she's pre-screening my calls.
And so um why is she doing that?
Well, the reason being isbecause and there's um she
wanted to do one final thing,get so two or three stakeholders
(14:34):
involved to do some testing, andum, she was supposed to provide
us some deliverables for that,and she did not come across it.
Um, you know, I was using REAIto communicate in that, and now
she's blocked me.
SPEAKER_04 (14:49):
So hold on, this is like a whole different issue
now, Derek.
If she's blocking you, thattells me she doesn't trust you.
Yeah.
So I'm just trying to helpunpack this because there's one
thing you're saying about whatshe's not doing.
Now, the fact she's not evenopen to talking to you about
(15:10):
this tells me something else wasbroken earlier on between you
and her, somewhere in yourprocess where she's now blocking
you, not talking to you, becauseshe must she must be feeling
from you that you're maybeattempting to move this thing
forward, and maybe she feelssome pressure, and that's why
she's blocked you out.
I don't know.
I'm thinking out loud here.
(15:30):
What do you think?
SPEAKER_02 (15:32):
Probably.
Well, that's why I've I backedoff on this.
Sorry, but she's done thisbefore and then she's come back.
Um, so this is nothing new.
Um, she's gets overwhelmed andand then she circles back.
So I I I recognize this pattern.
Um, so I'm not taking itpersonally, but sure.
SPEAKER_04 (15:50):
No, no, I wouldn't take it personal, but sounds
like whatever has happened priorto today has caused her to put
her guard up with you.
SPEAKER_02 (16:01):
Yeah, because the thing is, Ari is when it's
happened in the past and shesaid, I'm gonna get to this and
this.
It she doesn't, you know.
SPEAKER_04 (16:13):
I get it, she's she's she's stalling and
procrastinating, and you'reprobably probably your
frustration is being conveyed uhsomewhere to her in your
follow-up process to her out ofexasperation, saying, Come on.
So now she's like, Okay, I gottaback off.
So it's like this sort ofaccordion kind of listen this
dysfunction dysfunctionalrelationship between you and
(16:36):
her.
Don't ever go out with her, it'snot gonna go very well.
No, but but I'm just joking.
But I think I think the firstthing here, Derek, is we have to
recognize what it is, what it isin the right sequence.
Okay, I think the first step hasto happen here is we have to
diffuse the tension between youand her, right?
(16:56):
That doesn't happen, nothing isgonna happen, anyways.
So have you thought about haveyou attempted the apology
approach yet with her?
SPEAKER_02 (17:06):
I haven't, Ari.
I mean, I the the fall on thesword.
Um, I'm I think when to use thatbecause I I also think in the
past you had some beautifullanguaging, and I don't remember
to really call out the elephantin the room when somebody stalls
and feels like we're at a so I'mtrying to figure out the order
(17:26):
of things.
I mean, to me, if she haddisappeared for two, three
months, I would use the fall onthe sword approach, no problem.
SPEAKER_04 (17:33):
No, but she's ignoring your calls now.
Yeah, so maybe that it's time topull out the fall in your sword
approach.
Here's what you need to do,Derek.
You gotta leave her a message ordrop her email around the
message of uh hi, you know,first name.
Uh, hope you're well.
I I've I haven't heard back fromyou.
(17:55):
I've left you a message or two,and I just want to apologize.
It it's possible that somewherein our conversations recently, I
may have not fully given youwhat you needed or not answered
your questions, or maybe youfeel some pressure in some way
from me, and I want to apologizefor that.
Um, because I I only want tohelp and I don't want to in any
(18:17):
way make you feel uncomfortablewith the whole process.
Um, if you can provide me anyfeedback to help me um kind of
be better at this, this it wouldbe great.
Um, I just wanted to make itmake it good between you and I
to make sure what we'recomfortable together to have a
chat or something around thatconcept.
You just need to fall on yoursword somewhere here because you
got to break the tension, yougotta somehow bring the guard
(18:38):
down, otherwise you can't evenget past square first base.
It's you and her now, it's notthe other problem right now.
The first problem is you andher, the second problem is her
and the team.
Now, let's just say you do this,Derek, and you get a
breakthrough and she talks toyou.
Oh thank you.
An actual I could talk to her.
Yep.
(18:59):
Then if you if you crack meltthe ice on the first level, then
the next level would say, let'ssay her name is Julie.
Julie, I've been thinking moreabout your situation, and I've
been realizing I've beenthinking more about how you're
having your team decide whatthey want to do, and I know they
expressed they want to dosomething.
Um, would you be open to makinga recommendation to them to do
(19:23):
we initiate at least this firstphase in the process and have
you lead that process becausemaybe they need that direction
uh to be able to finally maketheir decision?
Would can we come up with somesomething around that, a
strategy around that where youtake the first step on this?
Would that even be possible atall?
I would just present that to heras a kind of message saying, I
(19:47):
need you, you need to dosomething to lead the way,
otherwise, no one's gonna goanywhere here, and you're kind
of stuck between two places theproblem and the solution.
And I'm trying to get you out ofthe middle of that, right?
Or maybe you have other ideas.
What do you recommend, Julie?
See how I'm saying it?
(20:08):
It's like we're a team on thistogether.
We have a stalemate, we have astalemate, it's frozen, right?
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_02 (20:16):
I I I agree, Ari, and I think it's gotta it's
gotta shift that way rather thanbecause you know, here's two
things that I think are gonnahappen.
Number one is she's probably uhshe might be open to it, and I
haven't taken that approach orsecond, she goes back to the
team thing, and and we have toshift away from that because
(20:39):
correct, yeah.
So if she happens to go, well,you know, I don't know, I gotta
check with the team, and youknow, some way Ari, I have to
keep moving the needle the otherway, and and and I'm trying to
think how can I do that withoutkind of irritating her or
upsetting her.
SPEAKER_04 (20:59):
I understand.
Yeah, only way I can do that isto ask her how what she thinks
is the best process to move outof the stalemate and to provide
her other offices the path tomove something forward, at least
to a first step.
Because it sounds like they theythey on their own won't do
(21:19):
without her her rubber her stampof approval.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_02 (21:25):
It's not without it's it's it's I think she's
just afraid to take theresponsibility.
SPEAKER_04 (21:31):
So why is she afraid?
What's she afraid might happen?
SPEAKER_02 (21:36):
She's afraid that she chooses a solution, and then
there could be one group ofpeople that go, you know what, I
don't like the solution orwhatever that we went with.
SPEAKER_04 (21:48):
But aren't they already bought in on it?
You said they were already agung ho about the solving it,
weren't they the solution ornot?
SPEAKER_02 (21:56):
They're they're not.
They're not.
SPEAKER_04 (22:00):
Because I thought you said they were saying the
problem they recognize is theywant to work on solving.
SPEAKER_02 (22:05):
Well, they they recognize the problem they won
want to solve, absolutely.
And so it's between us andanother vendor, and and
literally it's like let's justchoose one.
That's what it's gotten to thepoint.
Let's just choose something.
You know, you use both the same?
There's some nuances, somedifferences, but I but at the
(22:26):
end of the day, I mean it's justthey need to solve these issues.
That's the problem.
SPEAKER_04 (22:38):
Have you been in contact at all with those other
uh offices, the key people overthere?
SPEAKER_02 (22:42):
Only her sorry, the the other officers.
SPEAKER_04 (22:48):
Have you been in contact with the other key
people besides her?
SPEAKER_02 (22:52):
Absolutely.
I've gone on site, I've talkedto all the other uh
stakeholders.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (22:58):
Why don't you ask them for their advice?
Why don't you ask them, John,what would you recommend we do
at this point?
It sounds like nothing'shappening.
What what are your thoughts?
Because I think, Derek, you'reout of answers only because
you're on the outside, not theinside.
The inside has the answers.
Honestly, if it was me, I'd betalking to each of those people
(23:20):
around her and asking them fortheir feedback and their advice
how they suggest we proceed.
That's the bottom line.
They're motivated.
Sounds like they're motivated,they want to work on the
problem, right?
SPEAKER_02 (23:37):
Yeah, they want they want to work on the problem,
yeah.
But we have you we have adouble-edged sword here where we
have a leader can't make adecision, they want to choose a
solution, you know.
SPEAKER_04 (23:48):
So start start with them, not her.
SPEAKER_02 (23:52):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (23:53):
Ask them what they recommend as the best process to
make this happen.
Because you can say, I'm out ofideas.
What do you guys recommend?
That's what I would do.
Fall on your sword with them.
Okay, see what they say.
I bet you they'll think of anidea you haven't thought of yet.
SPEAKER_02 (24:13):
You never know.
I'll see.
SPEAKER_04 (24:15):
All right, Eric, good to see you again.
SPEAKER_02 (24:16):
Yeah, you too.
Thanks, sorry.
SPEAKER_04 (24:18):
All right, we're back to stuff the guru show.
As you can see, we often havevery thorny, kind of uh
challenging, complex issues thatcan come up, and you can see all
the layers that we're in thatsituation.
And when you're in the middle ofthese challenges, it's hard to
see the layers.
And so, part of our work that wedo here and we teach our clients
to do as well is to really see a360 view of the scenario and
(24:43):
break it down, look at all thesituations and look, find out
where the open doors are to getto the truth, not the sale, the
truth of what's really going on.
And oftentimes people on theinside will have the path and
the answer to help you solvetheir problem as long as they
trust you to be vulnerable withyou and tell you what's really
(25:04):
happening, and because theywould know the nuances in this
scenario of how to proceed, asopposed to an outsider versus an
insider.
So these are the kind of thornyissues that we work with a lot
uh in our processes.
And and I can tell you ingeneral, what you're seeing here
is a classic example of howselling in itself has become so
dysfunctional and so complex,very difficult to untangle if
(25:27):
you're thinking from salesperspective versus trust
perspective.
So we've got a few minutes leftover.
Anyone else uh left over there,Steve?
SPEAKER_03 (25:35):
Yeah, I'll bring Sam on.
So Sam's we've got some others,but they haven't the cameras
aren't on.
So let me just apologize to Sam.
Sam, we were talking in Slacklast week.
I'm sorry.
Australia got just throttled.
I don't know what to tell you,man.
You you you know, New York ishumming right now, USA is going
nuts with the Knicks, and itcarried over to soccer, the
(25:55):
sport I have no clue about.
But uh yeah, man, I'm gonna I'mgonna leave you two at it.
SPEAKER_00 (26:01):
I I thought my tumbleweeds cricket message was
a bit enough, but to apologizefor it anyway.
Yeah, no, it was it was uh itwas a good game for you guys.
Sam, what are your thoughts onon today's conversations?
SPEAKER_01 (26:14):
Yeah, look, excellent, Ari.
I mean, one of the things goingback to what you talked about
about the doctor-patient sort ofrelationship, one of the things
I'm hearing a lot from clients,and it's a behavior that they're
doing, and I'd like to get yourperspective on it.
And it's probably somethingyou've come across, but people
feel like they've got to go intothe conversation, they have to
do this framing, right?
(26:35):
They've got to frame theconversation.
They say, Look, okay, so look,let me tell you what's gonna
happen here.
Uh, you're gonna talk a littlebit about you, I'm gonna talk a
little bit, I'm gonna tell you alittle bit about the process,
and then if we're a fit exactlywhat you said before, but
actually start with this wholeconcept of framing the
conversation, right?
(26:55):
What are your thoughts aroundthat?
Are you seeing that as well?
SPEAKER_04 (26:59):
Uh, yeah, you know, the more I think about it, when
I start with new clients, I askthem what how do they start
their meetings, and most of themstart framing with the prospect
to try and control everything.
This comes from some old salestraining programs that are out
in the market now who teach thiswhole idea of overlaying a
(27:21):
structure on top of theconversation in advance to
squeeze out the answer at theend.
And just as I describe it toyou, that's pressure oriented on
the other person who doesn'tknow you.
And so, as you know, we teachnot to do any of that uh because
your goal is trust building, notgetting a yes at the end, but
(27:45):
getting to the truth of whethertheir problem deserves a
solution or not, and that's adifferent trajectory which
changes the approach.
SPEAKER_01 (27:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think you know what yousaid was perfect.
I mean, it creates pressure,even if it's subtle.
I mean, you go into aconversation, you don't really
know what's happening, otherthan the fact that you know what
the person does, you know whatthey do, and you're going into
it quite genuinely open, and allof a sudden you the first thing
that comes out of their mouth isright, this is the framework of
(28:12):
how we're gonna have thisconversation.
We're gonna go through this,that, and the other thing, and
then we're gonna have anoutcome.
I mean, to me, that's like, oh,geez, okay.
Now I'm on the box seat here.
I've got to comply to thisframework.
I'm stressed.
SPEAKER_04 (28:26):
Well, it's it's like the doctor doesn't say, Look,
here's the plan for today.
All right, we're gonna do this.
No, that's for they say to you,where does it hurt?
And then it's a natural way youengage with an authority, it's
the way you begin to feelcomfortable opening up to people
by adding that frame and thewhole fit concept.
What it does is it compressesthe trust, the space of trust to
(28:48):
allow the other person to bevulnerable with you to open up
to you.
And I think that's the lessonhere as we come to a conclusion,
is that the goal is not to sellto somebody, the goal is to
create enough space with themwhere they feel comfortable
telling you the truth and theytrust you to deep level, where
(29:10):
they themselves drive thingsforward.
And of course, you're teachingthe trust academy coming up.
And I'm encouraging everyonelistening today to go to the the
aregalper.com forward slashacademy and read that page
carefully and watch the videoand understand the philosophy
and approach that we believe hasbeen working for so many years
and is so important.
(29:31):
And of course, you walk the talkand you'll be teaching that
program, and I'll be a guest whocould bring in every once in a
while.
But I think hopefully fromtoday, people have picked up
that our way of thinking isdifferent than other other ways
of thinking, and it's not foreveryone, but those who resonate
will be a good fit.
So, any last thoughts for you onmaybe the Trust Academy program
as well?
SPEAKER_01 (29:51):
Yeah, look, I mean, look, the fact is that there's
been a lot of conditionedthinking and a lot of people
doing things the old way.
And look, it's not working.
Times have changed, it's acommoditized environment,
there's plenty of people that dowhat you do.
And if you're happy with sort ofliving in that world and and
losing a lot of qualifiedopportunities, because the main
reason is that you know trust isthe broken piece, it's a trust
(30:13):
recession.
And if you want to move out ofthat, then there is a path
forward, and you know what?
It's more natural, it's moreauthentic, it's just more of a
pleasure.
And once you know, you look backand you think that old way just
didn't work, and and the new wayis it's just a new learning
skill, a new muscle.
(30:34):
If you can embrace that, itreally becomes a game changer.
It's as simple as that.
SPEAKER_04 (30:38):
Look, in the day and age of AI, only way you win this
game is by you mastering the artof human-to-human trust
building.
That's the last gap left topreserve your business and
success over time.
So, on that note, Sam, thanksfor being here.
Uh, again, if you have not goneto the academy page yet, go to
arigalper.com forward slashacademy immediately.
(31:01):
We only have 25 spots that willbe closing very soon when we
start in July.
And I'd encourage you to be opento challenging your own thinking
and deep diving into atrust-based approach to help you
succeed with what's happening inthe world these days.
So, on that note, thanks forcoming today, and we'll see you
all next time.
See you all right.
SPEAKER_05 (31:20):
We hope you've enjoyed this month's segment of
Stump the Guru and that you'vediscovered some new trust-based
selling strategies that you canapply directly to your sales
process.
You can get access to Ari'strust-based selling 60-minute
masterclass atwww.unlockthegame.com forward
slash video.
(31:41):
And if you want to go one stepfurther, you can order his
latest book, Unlock the SalesGame, and get a free one-on-one
sales growth consultation atwww.unlockthegame.com.
Before we say goodbye for now,if you enjoyed this podcast,
please take a moment to reviewthis podcast.
It's easy.
(32:02):
Just scroll down to the bottomof Stump the Guru Podcast within
Apple Podcasts until you reachratings and reviews.
Click one of the five starsunder Tap to Rate to leave a
rating.
Thanks so much, and we'll seeyou on the next show.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.