May 21, 2026 • 35 mins
Traditional follow-ups often come across as self-serving and create resistance.
I’ll share trust-based languaging techniques that replace follow-ups with collaborative conversations.
You’ll learn how to keep the momentum going without chasing or pressuring your prospects.
In this month’s Stump The Guru show, I will challenge a common practice: following up.
I've made it my life’s mission to create the clarity that is missing in the traditional sales process, through decades of working with thousands of business owners all over the world, refining Trust-Based Selling into a true art form:
· Stop "chasing" ghosts (leads that never call you back!)
· Make the sale in ONE conversation, without pressure
· Stop selling, create deep trust instead
I’ve taken my mission one step further and created a livestream show called “Stump The Guru’” -- where you get the opportunity to jump on live and ask me your toughest sales questions that you’d love an answer for.
Get Ari's latest best-selling book "Trust In A Split Second!" for FREE along with a Complimentary Lead & Sales Growth Consultation (Value $995.00) at http://www.UnlockTheGame.com/FreeConsult, and join him as a guest on his podcast "Stump The Guru" and get your chance to ask Ari one-on-one questions, fill in the form to be clickable to this link: https://links.arigalper.com/widget/form/rh5YanDqzZqPHVBCKlKG
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Hi everyone, welcome to Stump the Guru podcast with
your host, Ari Galpa, theworld's number one authority on
trust-based selling and thecreator of Unlock the Game.
This monthly podcast will bringyou guests from virtually every
industry unrehearsed to try andstump Ari with their most
difficult sales challenges.
(00:21):
This podcast is for businessowners, financial advisors,
entrepreneurs, and salesexecutives.
The guests on this show haveonly one goal in mind to stump
Ari.
And Ari has one goal in mind (00:33):
to overturn the notion of selling
as we know it today by buildingtrust between buyers and
sellers.
SPEAKER_03 (00:48):
Hope you're doing well.
We have our tip of most of ourfollowers who listen to these
call uh these sessions or watchthese sessions religiously every
single month.
Thank you so much for showing uptoday.
If you're live, then you can seeme live at the arigalper.com
forward slash live page.
Um, if you don't know who weare, we focus on trust-based
selling.
(01:08):
We've been focused on this forthe last 25 years.
Uh, it's been our niche, and wehave mastered the art of not
chasing uh leads, uh, not havingto do uh free consulting, uh
free education, all those thingsthat we just do as normal
things, but we should not bedoing.
Um and this this this sessionthat we have once a month is
(01:30):
really for people to jump onlive, ask me a question
unprepared, to have me giveprovide some provide them some
insights to help them move theirsales process forward without
friction.
Uh, and if you're not part ofour community yet, you should
join.
There's uh free access atregalper.com forward slash free.
Also, you can download the appon the screen there.
It says regalper.com forwardslash app.
(01:52):
Um, but we have a large growingcommunity of trust-based
business owners, the only one inthe world that focuses on the
idea of trust.
And we do plan on building out aglobal network of business
owners around this concept.
We have active members in thecommunity every day posting
success stories, tips, ideas.
Uh, there's different levels youcan join, um, levels with
(02:15):
working with me uh and differentlevels below that.
So I would encourage you ifyou're not if you're listening
now and not a member, you canjoin at ralper.com forward slash
free to enter our world.
Um, and then we'll take it fromthere.
So welcome everyone, and uh, weare gonna get started.
And let me just kind of themetoday.
So the theme is this idea thatfollowing up with people is
(02:38):
hurting your business.
And I'm gonna talk about thatbecause I just did a uh a talk
to a group of CEOs yesterday,and they were kind of not
boasting, but saying verythey're very proud of their
follow-up system.
And they even use the wordnurturing as if like chasing
leads is a nurturing process.
Nurturing feels very warm andcozy, but it's not when you're
(02:58):
calling somebody to follow upwith them or email them again
and text them again after thefirst few meetings and they're
ignoring you.
That is not nurturing, that isbreaking trust and burning
trust.
And for so many years, we'vebeen taught that a follow-up
system is required uh to chasepeople down to finally get to
(03:20):
them to say yes.
Um, and that used to work on apre-COVID when people were
comfortable with a follow-upcall, an email call, and they
were actually available and theywrote you back.
But if you have a CRM system orif you think your opportunity is
sitting inside your follow-upprocess, you're in for a rude
awakening.
Now you might get a few peoplewho might come back to you, but
(03:40):
the most will ignore you becausethe minute you start following
up with somebody, they feel likethey're being chased and you're
lowering your positioning.
Uh, and so your goal is tocompress your sales cycle.
So in the first meeting, theytrust you enough to schedule
with you on your calendar for anext step.
If your process has not allowedthem to do that and they're
(04:01):
saying, Do you want to thinkabout it?
I'm not ready yet.
And then you say, No problem,I'll follow up with you, or send
you a quote, you're you have ahole in your sales funnel.
And it gets bigger every singleday because of technology.
People are being overwhelmedwith multiple contacts coming
inbound.
And if anything, they'reshutting things down.
(04:21):
And the last thing you want todo is trying to win this war in
the inbox.
So, your goal is to learn what Icall the one-call sale, uh,
which we have inside ourcommunity in our coaching
program.
You can learn about that, wherewe coach folks on how to build
enough trust with somebody inone single meeting so they get a
commitment to a next step ontheir calendar.
Uh, and if the if the person isnot qualified or not serious
(04:44):
about their problem, you justlet them go or drop them into a
system you don't have to worryabout them anymore.
Let the automation go on itsown.
But you're they're lost ifthey're gone from the first
meeting in most cases, unlessthey're on your calendar.
So you have to ask yourself,what can you do to avoid the
follow-up process?
Now, here's some tips for you ifyou are in the follow-up process
(05:06):
and you haven't transitioned yetto our world.
Okay.
So, what you can do, first ofall, is one, we're never use the
word follow-up ever again as oftoday.
That is a bad word to use.
Why?
Because when you call somebodyand say, I'm calling a
follow-up, that sends a message,you're trying to move them
forward.
Follow-up is a sales word.
You should not be using languagein the language that is not
trust-based.
(05:27):
So here's what you say instead.
I'm giving you a call to see ifyou have any feedback on our
previous conversation, anyfeedback on our last meeting,
any feedback on our previousconversation, any feedback on
proposal or the plan.
Feedback is going away from thesale, it's going back to the
problem.
Don't use any phrases liketouching base, follow-up, or
(05:50):
what's the other one peoplealways use?
Um, let's connect, or um circleback.
I don't know.
These are all classic 1980sphrases that just turn people
off and clearly designate you asa quote, the negative
salesperson stereotype.
Your perception and authorityand self-image should be of a
(06:14):
doctor who's helping a patient,not a salesperson chasing a
lead.
Okay, that is a mindset shift.
And in this day and age ofcommoditization, where you're
being shopped against somebodyelse, if you're using the
traditional sales process uhthat I'm talking about today,
and you're just doing whateveryone else does, chasing more
leads, playing the numbers game,you will get zero connection in
(06:37):
most cases because that model isof selling has been commoditized
in itself.
So you have to differentiate,you have to change your
approach.
You have to, yes, I hate to usethe word, you have to learn a
different way of thinking.
I know AI is replaced learningbecause you have all your
answers there, but as humanbeings, the only way to win this
(06:57):
game against AI and trust is forus as humans, guess what?
To learn how to get builderbetter trust building with other
humans.
Okay.
That's the missing gap, Ibelieve, between the AI world
and the human world, which isour ability to learn how to
build trust with other humans,not with AI.
Okay.
So that's the missing component.
I wrote a book about this, bythe way.
(07:19):
Um it's called uh The Rise of AIand the Decline of Trust.
Okay, so this is an importantgap that is a skill set
everybody in business, everybusiness owner should be
learning like right now, uh,before installing their AI
systems, to learn how to buildtrust in their sales process and
their business, to become what Icall a trust-based business.
(07:40):
And this is not a priority foryou, and you need to make it a
priority for yourself as fast aspossible.
Um, so there's some insights foryou, some thoughts to think
about, some food for thought uhas we open up the lines here to
see who's around to ask aquestion for me.
And um we'll kind of just divein and we'll use this
trust-based approach uh as aperspective to try and solve as
(08:01):
many problems as possible.
So if you're interested indirect consulting or coaching
with us, just get my free bookat the trustbook.com and you can
simply order the book.
It goes in the mail to youphysically, and there's an
opportunity to schedule a timewith either myself or one of my
coaches to work with you or havea chat with you about your
situation.
Um, those are for folks who wantto solve the problem quickly.
(08:22):
If you want to learn your waythrough this, then join our
community at regalper.comforward slash free and get
involved.
There's different levels thatyou can get involved with, but
just getting inside our world initself, in our ecosystem,
through osmosis, hopefullyyou'll be able to understand and
learn that this is the way forsuccess in the future for if
you're selling something.
(08:42):
Uh, but if you're selling theold with the old model, you're
feeling the pain right now.
I'm sure you are.
Uh, most folks are who come ourway.
So, on that note, Steve, uh, howare we looking back there?
SPEAKER_04 (08:53):
All righty, we're looking good.
I would just like to firstapologize to the city of
Cleveland for what happened toyou last night.
As a city, you have failed, andNew York is gonna dominate you
in this basketball series.
I just had to say it, you know.
I don't have my orange because Igave it to my kids' principal.
But we've got Matt Dillingham.
I'm gonna bring Matt on.
He's laughing already.
I hope he's a Knicks fan.
Man, I hope you're not fromCleveland, Matt.
(09:15):
No, I'm in Virginia.
SPEAKER_05 (09:16):
I don't follow basketball.
I'm more soccer in UFC.
SPEAKER_04 (09:19):
So all right, so you're not uh you have no horse
in it, and but but you watchedthat you watched that
seven-second beatdown of of Ginaand Ronda then over the weekend.
SPEAKER_05 (09:26):
But boy, I watched a replay.
I was pretty good.
I was like, well, that didn'tlast that long.
SPEAKER_04 (09:30):
I was like, all right, but hey, it was if just
one sneeze and you missed theentire fight.
Pretty much, pretty much.
All right, so uh since youhaven't been on before, if you
could let everybody know who youare, a little bit about yourself
and your business, and then yourquestion for Ari.
SPEAKER_05 (09:44):
I've been on before, it's been a minute, but uh my
name is Matt Dillingham.
I'm the owner of uh IntuitiveAdvising, and we offer credit
repair, business credit, andcoaching.
SPEAKER_03 (09:52):
So that's who I am.
Got it.
Okay, so fill me in on your kindof so you do coaching on how to
repair people's credit, is thatright?
And a service around that?
SPEAKER_05 (10:03):
It's it's more so to fix the root cause of what got
you there in the first place onthe personal side and go for
business, but that's different.
So as I joke, as I joke, thecredit repair is the gateway
drug into the coaching aspect,if you're right.
SPEAKER_03 (10:18):
Yeah, all right, the pre and post, got it.
SPEAKER_05 (10:20):
Yeah, um, so I met with a prospect um at a I was a
vendor at a baby expo two weeksago, and she gave I she she
expressed interest in creditrepair, I have her number and
followed her, follow up with herthe following, the week
following, and she said, Hey,give now's like a time, contact
me the 19th.
(10:40):
That was yesterday.
Said reach out to yesterday.
She said, Now follow me nextweek.
And I'm like, okay, I'm notgonna do this again in game.
So what would be a good thing tosay, like, look, just you know,
just to just end it and say, I'mgonna let you be.
If you need me, I'm gonna moveon from here.
SPEAKER_03 (10:58):
So all right, first of all, let's let's go back to
the beginning and figure out howyou got here.
SPEAKER_05 (11:04):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (11:05):
Okay, then we'll we'll we'll see what we can do
on the back end of this thing.
Yes.
So let me get this right.
You met her at a show of somesort.
She assumed you were at a boothof some sort, right?
Yes, came up to the booth.
She came to the booth, you had aquick chat, she said, I'm
interested in this, and you saidand you probably collected her
details, I assume, and then yousaid to her, uh great, I'll
(11:26):
follow up with you and and andwe'll talk then.
Is that something like that?
SPEAKER_05 (11:29):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (11:31):
Okay.
So my question is for you is howcome you didn't schedule her on
your calendar at the booth?
SPEAKER_05 (11:38):
Did not cross my mind.
SPEAKER_03 (11:40):
Okay.
This is the source of yourproblem.
SPEAKER_05 (11:44):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (11:46):
Right.
So you're so you're soconditioned to assume a lead and
the next step is the nextfollow-up.
That's that's how you've beenwired.
See, you're your your so yourbrain goes, Oh, great, I got a
lead.
Awesome.
I'll follow up with them.
See, for you, that's yourconditioning as a normal
behavior.
See, for us, that's that'sabnormal.
(12:06):
You should never do that.
SPEAKER_02 (12:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (12:08):
You have them at the first conversation, they're in
the most interested.
That was the moment of the peakwhen their their brain was
focused on the problem and theywanted to help.
That was the exact moment you,as the doctor, she would
schedule them on your calendar.
So you might say, she says, You,yeah, I'm interested in this
coaching, and I'd like to talkabout it.
(12:28):
You say, No problem, no problem.
Well, why don't we schedule atime right now?
On our I got my calendar righthere, my laptop, and let's
schedule a time, and then youcan bring along your situation,
your challenges, and I can kindof diagnose what's going on and
give you some.
Here's the key word insights,not information, some insights
on how to help you with this.
Would that be okay if you shouldleave?
(12:49):
Would that would you be open tothat?
Now, obviously, if they'relegit, they're not gonna say no.
Correct.
She sounded like she was legit,yes, but your process did not
allow her the schedule on yourcalendar.
She dropped in the black hole,and now you got stuck chasing
her.
Do you know what I'm trying tosay?
Yes.
(13:09):
So, what I'm trying to say isyou have one moment of everyone
who's listening to this has onemoment of time when your lead or
prospect is the most focused onthe problem, and that is the
first meeting or the firstcontact, first conversation.
So, in your case, the firstconversation was at the booth.
In a lot of other people'scases, it's on a zoom call
(13:32):
wherever it starts.
That's the moment it all has tohappen.
So frick's number one schedulethem on the spot so there is no
more follow-up at all in yourworld.
Follow-up like goes awayforever.
Okay, and then you you work offwhat I call a calendar
relationship with these clientsor these people.
(13:52):
You work by appointment only.
That's like your model, like adoctor.
You work, you can say it.
Yeah, I only work by appointmentonly.
I just I just don't followpeople.
I'm sorry, I don't think peopleI'm kind of like doctor, you
know.
I I only work because I'm busyand I work by appointment.
I'm gonna give you somelanguaging here and permission
(14:14):
for you to break out of yourboxer and in the sales mode or
anything to say to people, youknow what?
And when you do that withpeople, they respect that,
right?
They go, wow, he's not gonnachase me.
Yeah, that's okay.
I'm I'm game.
Let's let's give this a try.
Because nobody wants to bechased, right?
(14:36):
Nobody, and you can say it topeople, you can say, I just
don't chase folks.
I'm sorry, it's not what I do.
I am a trust builder, and wework by probably the only people
who're serious.
So if you want to work with havesome insight, so anyways, that's
how you solve the problem fornot having ever again.
All right, got it.
Thank you.
Here's what you can do with heron the back end, if anything, is
(14:57):
I would send her what I call theapology email.
Are you aware of that?
SPEAKER_05 (15:02):
Yeah, it's in your book.
SPEAKER_03 (15:03):
That I yeah, yeah, it's what I'm there.
You go.
Okay, so one of my books there,but I'll all for the audience
who's listening or watching,I'll I'll provide the context.
So clearly, you chasing her isnot working because somehow she
feels pursued by you, right?
You're you're putting energy onher, and she's saying, I don't
want to be pursued.
(15:24):
So we have to reverse it andsend her a message, which could
be true, and and following yoursword and say, you know, hi
Julie, it's you know, whateverhere.
And uh, I'm just I'm justwriting you not here's the key
phrase, not to move thingsforward.
And their brain goes, Oh,they're gonna stop chasing me
(15:48):
now.
Uh, I'm just writing you to toapologize because maybe I didn't
provide you with what you neededwhen we met the show.
I should have offered you theopportunity to have a chat then.
I should have maybe uh I shouldhave given you more some
information then.
Maybe maybe maybe I didsomething wrong.
You blame yourself, right?
(16:08):
Not them because clearly you didsomething wrong, you're just
being honest with her, and youjust say, Look, I'm just writing
you for some feedback.
That's the key word.
For some feedback for how Icould have I could have improved
or done a better job when I metyou to build better more trust.
I love your thoughts andfeedback.
That's how people improve in thefuture.
(16:29):
Would you be open to that?
Dot dot dot.
That that's the email that goesout.
Okay, that humanizes you.
It gets you out of the salesstereotype that people hate to
get out of from a show like thatbeing chased.
And you might get to the truth.
When I used to do live eventsseminars, I used to have all the
(16:50):
attendees bring their laptopswith them, and at lunchtime,
they had I had them all sendthis one email out to all the
people they're chasing.
We got back for lunch, theyopened the laptop, it was so
many responses in their inbox,like within 15 minutes.
And you know what they usuallysaid?
They usually said, Oh no, no,no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_05 (17:07):
It's not you, it's the real issue, what's going on?
I I sent it, I sent a text to acouple people, an email.
I got one person responding tofound out what happened.
I went, Oh wow, I had no idea.
It's like, thank you, but itdoes work.
SPEAKER_03 (17:22):
So yeah, yeah.
Your goal is the truth, myfriend, not the sale.
SPEAKER_05 (17:25):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (17:26):
So focus on that trust building, okay?
We'll do.
All right, be well.
All right, thank you.
Okay, no worries.
So we're back here uh with theuh stump the guru show.
And as you're hearing, uh,there's a lot of folks who are
uh still in that loop, thatcontinuous loop of having a
contact, maybe conversation,then following up and chasing,
(17:49):
and now stuck in a black hole.
And just so you know, every daythat goes by, those leads get
colder and colder and colder andcolder, and the odds of
converted them go lower andlower and lower and lower.
That's what I call the path ofmost resistance.
Your job is to compress thatsales cycle, bring it forward,
(18:10):
and not, I know it sounds kindof strange, not do any sales
activities that connect you tothe stereotype of selling.
Selling itself has beencommoditized as we know it.
And if you find yourself fallinginto those behavior patterns,
um, like doing free consulting,educating people, relationship
(18:31):
building up front without trustbuilding, a rapport that can
appear to be fake, um, you'reyou're in trouble.
Uh, and you have to you have toupgrade your skills get skill
set skill set to learn how tobuild trust with people and not
sell the people.
If trust is a different conceptand different skill set is not
being taught anywhere.
(18:51):
No universities teach this, uh,no courses outside our walls
teach this in our way.
And so I'd encourage you toreach out and ask for help.
Don't be afraid because you haveto shift to where the market's
at right now, and that is awe're not a commoditized market,
and everyone's being shocked.
And if you're just selling likeeverybody else, you know that
(19:14):
leads.
All right, Steve.
So uh who else is back theretoday?
SPEAKER_04 (19:18):
Alrighty.
So we have people back here thataren't gonna be coming on after
talking to them.
Some are not ready, some justdon't, you know, it's all good.
But I'm gonna bring Sam onbecause hey Sam, how are you,
buddy?
SPEAKER_01 (19:29):
Hey Steve, hey um you and I right hey Ari, good to
see you again.
SPEAKER_03 (19:34):
Yeah, you too.
SPEAKER_01 (19:35):
Hey, I got a bit of an exercise that I'm gonna
encourage all of you as thebusiness owners to do.
And this is straight fresh offsomething I experienced with a
client recently.
Had a client, much like whatyou're saying, engaged in a lot
of follow-up, a lot ofprocessing.
And I said to the client, Isaid, How much time do you spend
(19:56):
doing all the follow-ups?
Tell me about it, right?
And he went through and told meall about it, not to mention all
the dead calls, all the peoplethat don't respond, let alone
the conversations he has, allthe time that's involved around
that.
And then I said to him, thinkcarefully about your business
and tell me how many actualsales do you get from all that
(20:18):
activity?
And he thought about it, and hethought, uh, you know what?
Next to nothing.
Very is it really rarelyhappens.
So when you look at thatequation, the sale, yeah, look,
you're gonna get someoccasionally, of course, things
happen, right?
I mean, that's you know, that'sjust numbers, but when you think
(20:40):
about the return that you getfrom a sale compared to all of
that activity multiplied by yoursalespeople consistently all
day, every day, it's it's apretty unbalanced equation.
And and when he saw that, herealized that because time's
your most valuable asset, timeis where you get the most amount
(21:03):
of return.
He's now diverted that to betterlead generation activities to
target his qualified people,more targeting, less like a
funnel and more like a cylinder,and is enjoying not only greater
success, but a lot more peace ofmind and a lot more, a lot less
bandwidth on things that gonowhere.
(21:25):
So I just you know, listening toyou talk about that, I thought
that's a good exercise foreverybody to just be honest with
yourself and have a think.
SPEAKER_03 (21:32):
Well, here's the thing, Sam.
Everyone, every business owneris wired to view their sales
process as a funnel.
Where it's wide at the top,narrows to the middle, and
narrows the bottom.
So the top of their doing isputting as much as they can at
the top social media, podcasts,leads, whatever.
(21:53):
And then they spend all theirtime and money in the middle of
this process chasing,qualifying.
Following up.
Now at the bottom, a few marblesmight come out, right?
Like I did hear someone say tome, Well, Ari, after two years,
I finally got the sale, so it'sworth chasing somebody.
Well, after two years, you'velost probably 90% of what you
(22:14):
could have made if you wouldfocus on not the chasing
process, but the trust-basedprocess.
And I think I think you'reright.
I think it's a hidden, expensivecost to have a business owner or
sales team spend any time at allin a chasing process trying to
get a hold of people, as ifthat's the norm.
See, the the irony of the wholething is most heads of sales or
(22:36):
business owners assume a salesteam's job, their time should be
spent pursuing leads.
No, their job should be spentface to face or on Zoom or on
Teams converting leads to an asa new client, not chasing them.
(22:57):
And replacing the chasingprocess with AI or some CRM
system does not solve theproblem either.
There should be no chasing.
You need to introduce your teamand yourself to the concept of
what I call the one call salecompressing cycle.
I don't mean a sign contract, Imean a commitment on the first
meeting to a next step in yourprocess.
(23:17):
So they stay on your counter,not off your counter.
But I appreciate that exercise.
I think it's important thateverybody finally admit to
themselves that the middle ofthe funnel piece, chasing
opportunities is the worst placeto be because that's where all
your time, expense, and money islost.
SPEAKER_01 (23:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, the other illusionthat people have is they have a
conversation and they think, oh,what a great conversation, but
they didn't, they didn't getthey didn't get the sale, they
didn't go on the calendar, theydidn't go the next step, they
didn't commit to your process,they fall off, and people think
to themselves, but that's okay.
I'm gonna go, they're gonnaenter my nurturing system, as
you said.
Oh, we've got a we've got aprocess to handle all the
(23:55):
follow-ups, and they givethemselves this illusion of
relief, thinking, oh, it's okaystill.
Guess what?
It's not okay.
SPEAKER_03 (24:02):
All right, it's it's yeah, it's crazy.
It's crazy.
And Sam, I guess someone elsecoming in now.
Let's catch one more guest, andthen I appreciate you stopping
by.
Thank you, Sam.
I know you're missing.
All right.
So Steve, we have one more photoperson back there.
SPEAKER_04 (24:16):
Yep, I'm gonna bring Ryan on.
Ryan just popped in.
Hey Ryan, how are you today?
Oh, your mic's not on.
SPEAKER_06 (24:25):
Yeah, the sounds there we go.
I'm getting some echo.
I'm not quite sure how to.
SPEAKER_03 (24:31):
No problem.
So uh yeah, so maybe Ryan, letus know kind of what you do and
and what your challenge mightbe.
Sure.
SPEAKER_06 (24:38):
I'm a financial advisor, financial planner, and
I have the opportunity to workwith uh Christian denomination
of pastors, and uh I've we wehave a an association.
SPEAKER_03 (24:51):
Can you come a little bit closer to the mic?
It's kind of cutting out, I'mnot sure why.
unknown (24:56):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (24:56):
If you were watching it live at arigalper.com slash
live and then enteredStreamYard, you want to close
the live window from Ari Galperbecause you'll have that playing
at the same time that you'relive here in the studio.
Oh that should yeah, that shouldhelp fix things.
SPEAKER_03 (25:13):
Yeah, that's right.
That'd be a tech issue if youhave both windows open.
So just close the Ari Live umscreen and then you're you'll be
inside uh the the show, so tospeak.
There we go.
Okay.
SPEAKER_06 (25:26):
Nice.
I was getting some echo uh so Iwork with a group of pastors,
and so I've had severalconversations recently where
people leading denominationswhere they ask us to uh come in
and help uh work with their uhindividuals in their churches or
their pastors because they're anunderserved area.
(25:47):
And uh, I've had severalconversations recently where
they have said, oh, this isgreat, we we really need you, uh
we need to set something up andschedule a meeting, but uh you
know, the meeting for whateverreason doesn't happen.
And now I feel like I'm chasingthem to get them back on the
calendar and uh trying to figureout how to best uh phrase this
(26:07):
uh to uh to get the bestresponse.
Uh and you know, I've sent acouple messages over the past
couple days, and and these arepeople that said, we are so glad
to connect with you and wereally need your your help.
So uh I've been listening to youoff and on for a year or so and
read a couple books and uh wasjust looking forward to to being
on this call today to ask somequestions.
SPEAKER_03 (26:28):
I appreciate you coming on, I really do.
So let me let me go back acouple of steps.
So you had a physical meetingwith them?
Is that the the pastor incharge, or or what how what was
the last conversation you hadwith them?
SPEAKER_06 (26:38):
It was about uh two weeks ago.
We had a meeting with twodifferent uh one was a bishop,
one was the uh the financedirector for a group of
churches.
Gotcha.
And uh so we have a guaranteedissue policy for for you know
the association and then uhgroup benefits plans for pastors
that they really don't haveanything.
(27:00):
No, that's great.
SPEAKER_03 (27:01):
And and and it was left with the idea that we
schedule uh a you presenting.
Is that what what the next stepwas to present something?
SPEAKER_06 (27:08):
Yeah, we we left with we've scheduled a follow-up
meeting.
Well, we scheduled a meeting toto discuss, you know, okay,
here's your next steps.
Let's have been using wordslike, well, I I I said uh would
it make sense for us to check inin a week or so to uh to to
reconnect and and answeranything?
All right, so hold on a second.
SPEAKER_03 (27:29):
Did you schedule a meeting with them?
Yes or no from the first meetingon your calendar?
SPEAKER_06 (27:32):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (27:33):
Oh, you had a schedule, you so you sat there,
let's schedule together, andwe'll meet again on Wednesday,
whatever, four o'clock, whateverit was, right?
SPEAKER_06 (27:40):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (27:41):
So did they not show up or or what happened?
SPEAKER_06 (27:44):
It was uh yeah, uh all these meetings they they
didn't show, and I I did riskthey did get a response finally.
Oh, we were we were I was on traI was traveling today
unexpectedly.
Oh, and then you know, let's reslet's reconnect.
How's the schedule over the nextcouple weeks?
SPEAKER_03 (28:00):
And you know, okay, so I got it.
So they committed to you.
The chemistry was gay, great,but they didn't show up to your
scheduled meeting.
Yeah, how many days apart wasthe next meeting?
SPEAKER_06 (28:12):
Um, it's it was within a week.
We had a schedule within a week.
Okay.
And so okay.
I've got apologies saying, ohman, we we weren't able to meet
in then when I hear some timesand dates.
And this is after, you know,very much uh a lot of interest
in you know, excitement aboutthe conversation.
SPEAKER_03 (28:31):
Yeah, I know they always give you the hopium drug,
kind of pretend it's all gonnabe made.
We're so excited to have youwith us.
Um, but do you have an assistantof some sort?
Uh can that in your it can workwith you?
What I'm suggesting to you isyou need to implement having an
assistant who calls them beforethe second meeting to remind
(28:52):
them of the meeting they havecommitted to with the doctor.
You're the doctor, they're thepatient.
I think you're missing thatpiece there because then either
they would have caught thechange of date or they would
have been, oh yeah, you'reright.
They they remember how seriousthat commitment was for them.
So that's one piece that couldprevent this from happening
again is to have an assistant,so to speak, call the key people
(29:13):
and say, just want to confirmtwo o'clock on Friday, you're
meeting with you know Ryan, andwant to make sure you'll be on
time.
And that there's a lot, there'sa lot of weight with that.
Uh, we have a team that doesthat for us, and people kind of
like go, oh right, thanks forthe reminder.
Almost like, because whathappens is Ryan, in the first
meeting, the chemistry isincredible.
(29:33):
It's like it's like fireworkseverywhere.
So you you leave feeling like,oh my god, this was amazing.
They leave the next after whenyou left, they forgot about you.
Nothing personal, they don'tfeel like it was amazing, they
just leave the next task theyhave to do.
So you're hoping and waiting andexcitement, and they've already
forgotten about you.
Not not a personal thing, it'sjust the way it works.
(29:56):
So you need someone on your teamto call, not email, but to call
them to remind them of their ofthe voice connection of the
seriousness of the nextcommitment.
Okay, that's this one fix toprevent this from happening
again.
It it helps us a lot.
It might help you as well.
Now, yeah, that's great.
So now the next step is you'retrying to get them to circle
back and schedule again.
(30:16):
And they said, Do you whatagain?
What was the last comment fromthem?
What was the last uh messagefrom them?
SPEAKER_06 (30:25):
Oh, the the the it was yesterday uh on one of them,
and it was uh well I he said Iknow you're very busy.
Oh, let's see.
So sorry, Ryan.
Yes, need to reschedule.
I know you're very busy.
Are there times and dates thatwould work for you better for
you?
And uh, but I've had a response.
SPEAKER_03 (30:46):
All right, do you can do you have someone who can
call on your behalf?
Here's what I want to doscheduling is below your pay
grade, Ryan.
You should not be anadministration assistant
scheduling with emails, likethat's as low as your profile
and your positioning.
You need to this is the issue.
You need someone in the role toplay the tennis game to do the
(31:08):
connection for you, to schedulethe meeting with you, the
doctor.
The doctor is busy with thepatients.
Now you're the front desk all ofa sudden, your role is shifting,
and now they treat you likethat.
Did you see what I'm trying tosay?
The positioning there, yeah.
So I would I would stopreplying.
Go find, preferably, uh afriendly person who can work
(31:30):
with you and call on yourbehalf.
Like pick up the phone and callthem and say, Hi, I work with
Ryan's office here.
I'm uh he's quite busy.
I'm trying to find a schedule tofind some time for him to talk
to you.
Can we quickly have a quickdiscussion about what's a good
time and I'll get you locked in?
Okay, that's because really youdoing this is not working.
SPEAKER_06 (31:50):
Yes.
I'm I'm handling I'm handlingeverything rather than
delegating.
SPEAKER_03 (31:56):
Correct.
Your job is the positionyourself as the doctor who's
busy with patients.
You don't do admin work.
That's not your job.
Scheduling, emailing, times anddates, not showing up, following
up should not be your job,visibly.
(32:19):
That makes a lot of sense.
It's easy to get caught up inthat because we think we have a
quote relationship with them.
Somehow they just we connected,so they're gonna work with us.
Clearly, they're not.
What happens is you will dropdown their priority list real
quick after a couple days.
(32:39):
They almost forgot about thefirst conversation because it's
not you, it's just that thepriorities are always uh
adjusting all the time, andthose people's lives are
frazzled with the the world andtexts and social media.
So people's brains unfortunatelyaren't like they used to be,
where they actually remember uhthe previous meeting, they
actually forget about that.
(33:00):
Now, you and I, the sellersremember it like it was like the
extra five minutes ago.
Yes, oh, it was a great meeting,it was awesome, but they're
really excited.
Why are they not contacting you?
So, what I'm trying to say isput yourself on their shoes and
implement a process that keepsthem alive and viewing you as
somebody who's more busy thanthem.
(33:21):
Got it.
That makes a that makes a lot ofsense.
unknown (33:24):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (33:25):
Awesome, awesome.
So try that and come back andlet's know how that goes, okay?
Okay, I appreciate it.
Thanks for your time.
All right, thanks for coming on.
All right, well, that ends ourstump the girl show today.
We're a little bit over time.
Uh, but I think the theme offollowing up and chasing, as you
can, as you heard today, is socritical for everyone to avoid
this process.
And if you want to learn more,uh join our community for free
(33:47):
at uh arigalper.com forwardslash free to start uh or come
directly to us at the trust oftrustbook.com, order my book,
get engaged, get involved, anddon't be afraid to learn
something new because it mightbe that right under your nose
you're doing certain things andI've been realizing it, losing
the sale.
On that note, we'll say goodbyefor now.
Thanks for everybody coming inand we'll talk soon.
(34:09):
This will be now a podcast onSpotify, all the channels to
listen to, and we'll be in touchsoon.
Take care, everybody, signingoff.
SPEAKER_00 (34:16):
We hope you've enjoyed this month's segment of
Stump the Guru and that you'vediscovered some new trust-based
selling strategies that you canapply directly to your sales
process.
You can get access to Ari'strust-based selling 60-minute
masterclass atwww.unlockthegame.com forward
slash video.
(34:36):
And if you want to go one stepfurther, you can order his
latest book, Unlock the SalesGame, and get a free one-on-one
sales growth consultation atwww.unlockthegame.com.
Before we say goodbye for now,if you enjoyed this podcast,
please take a moment to reviewthis podcast.
It's easy.
(34:57):
Just scroll down to the bottomof Stump the Guru Podcast within
Apple Podcasts until you reachratings and reviews.
Click one of the five starsunder tap to rate to leave a
rating.
Thanks so much, and we'll seeyou on the next show.
Hi everyone, welcome to Stump the Guru podcast with
your host, Ari Galpa, theworld's number one authority on
trust-based selling and thecreator of Unlock the Game.
This monthly podcast will bringyou guests from virtually every
industry unrehearsed to try andstump Ari with their most
difficult sales challenges.
(00:21):
This podcast is for businessowners, financial advisors,
entrepreneurs, and salesexecutives.
The guests on this show haveonly one goal in mind to stump
Ari.
And Ari has one goal in mind (00:33):
to overturn the notion of selling
as we know it today by buildingtrust between buyers and
sellers.
SPEAKER_03 (00:48):
Hope you're doing well.
We have our tip of most of ourfollowers who listen to these
call uh these sessions or watchthese sessions religiously every
single month.
Thank you so much for showing uptoday.
If you're live, then you can seeme live at the arigalper.com
forward slash live page.
Um, if you don't know who weare, we focus on trust-based
selling.
(01:08):
We've been focused on this forthe last 25 years.
Uh, it's been our niche, and wehave mastered the art of not
chasing uh leads, uh, not havingto do uh free consulting, uh
free education, all those thingsthat we just do as normal
things, but we should not bedoing.
Um and this this this sessionthat we have once a month is
(01:30):
really for people to jump onlive, ask me a question
unprepared, to have me giveprovide some provide them some
insights to help them move theirsales process forward without
friction.
Uh, and if you're not part ofour community yet, you should
join.
There's uh free access atregalper.com forward slash free.
Also, you can download the appon the screen there.
It says regalper.com forwardslash app.
(01:52):
Um, but we have a large growingcommunity of trust-based
business owners, the only one inthe world that focuses on the
idea of trust.
And we do plan on building out aglobal network of business
owners around this concept.
We have active members in thecommunity every day posting
success stories, tips, ideas.
Uh, there's different levels youcan join, um, levels with
(02:15):
working with me uh and differentlevels below that.
So I would encourage you ifyou're not if you're listening
now and not a member, you canjoin at ralper.com forward slash
free to enter our world.
Um, and then we'll take it fromthere.
So welcome everyone, and uh, weare gonna get started.
And let me just kind of themetoday.
So the theme is this idea thatfollowing up with people is
(02:38):
hurting your business.
And I'm gonna talk about thatbecause I just did a uh a talk
to a group of CEOs yesterday,and they were kind of not
boasting, but saying verythey're very proud of their
follow-up system.
And they even use the wordnurturing as if like chasing
leads is a nurturing process.
Nurturing feels very warm andcozy, but it's not when you're
(02:58):
calling somebody to follow upwith them or email them again
and text them again after thefirst few meetings and they're
ignoring you.
That is not nurturing, that isbreaking trust and burning
trust.
And for so many years, we'vebeen taught that a follow-up
system is required uh to chasepeople down to finally get to
(03:20):
them to say yes.
Um, and that used to work on apre-COVID when people were
comfortable with a follow-upcall, an email call, and they
were actually available and theywrote you back.
But if you have a CRM system orif you think your opportunity is
sitting inside your follow-upprocess, you're in for a rude
awakening.
Now you might get a few peoplewho might come back to you, but
(03:40):
the most will ignore you becausethe minute you start following
up with somebody, they feel likethey're being chased and you're
lowering your positioning.
Uh, and so your goal is tocompress your sales cycle.
So in the first meeting, theytrust you enough to schedule
with you on your calendar for anext step.
If your process has not allowedthem to do that and they're
(04:01):
saying, Do you want to thinkabout it?
I'm not ready yet.
And then you say, No problem,I'll follow up with you, or send
you a quote, you're you have ahole in your sales funnel.
And it gets bigger every singleday because of technology.
People are being overwhelmedwith multiple contacts coming
inbound.
And if anything, they'reshutting things down.
(04:21):
And the last thing you want todo is trying to win this war in
the inbox.
So, your goal is to learn what Icall the one-call sale, uh,
which we have inside ourcommunity in our coaching
program.
You can learn about that, wherewe coach folks on how to build
enough trust with somebody inone single meeting so they get a
commitment to a next step ontheir calendar.
Uh, and if the if the person isnot qualified or not serious
(04:44):
about their problem, you justlet them go or drop them into a
system you don't have to worryabout them anymore.
Let the automation go on itsown.
But you're they're lost ifthey're gone from the first
meeting in most cases, unlessthey're on your calendar.
So you have to ask yourself,what can you do to avoid the
follow-up process?
Now, here's some tips for you ifyou are in the follow-up process
(05:06):
and you haven't transitioned yetto our world.
Okay.
So, what you can do, first ofall, is one, we're never use the
word follow-up ever again as oftoday.
That is a bad word to use.
Why?
Because when you call somebodyand say, I'm calling a
follow-up, that sends a message,you're trying to move them
forward.
Follow-up is a sales word.
You should not be using languagein the language that is not
trust-based.
(05:27):
So here's what you say instead.
I'm giving you a call to see ifyou have any feedback on our
previous conversation, anyfeedback on our last meeting,
any feedback on our previousconversation, any feedback on
proposal or the plan.
Feedback is going away from thesale, it's going back to the
problem.
Don't use any phrases liketouching base, follow-up, or
(05:50):
what's the other one peoplealways use?
Um, let's connect, or um circleback.
I don't know.
These are all classic 1980sphrases that just turn people
off and clearly designate you asa quote, the negative
salesperson stereotype.
Your perception and authorityand self-image should be of a
(06:14):
doctor who's helping a patient,not a salesperson chasing a
lead.
Okay, that is a mindset shift.
And in this day and age ofcommoditization, where you're
being shopped against somebodyelse, if you're using the
traditional sales process uhthat I'm talking about today,
and you're just doing whateveryone else does, chasing more
leads, playing the numbers game,you will get zero connection in
(06:37):
most cases because that model isof selling has been commoditized
in itself.
So you have to differentiate,you have to change your
approach.
You have to, yes, I hate to usethe word, you have to learn a
different way of thinking.
I know AI is replaced learningbecause you have all your
answers there, but as humanbeings, the only way to win this
(06:57):
game against AI and trust is forus as humans, guess what?
To learn how to get builderbetter trust building with other
humans.
Okay.
That's the missing gap, Ibelieve, between the AI world
and the human world, which isour ability to learn how to
build trust with other humans,not with AI.
Okay.
So that's the missing component.
I wrote a book about this, bythe way.
(07:19):
Um it's called uh The Rise of AIand the Decline of Trust.
Okay, so this is an importantgap that is a skill set
everybody in business, everybusiness owner should be
learning like right now, uh,before installing their AI
systems, to learn how to buildtrust in their sales process and
their business, to become what Icall a trust-based business.
(07:40):
And this is not a priority foryou, and you need to make it a
priority for yourself as fast aspossible.
Um, so there's some insights foryou, some thoughts to think
about, some food for thought uhas we open up the lines here to
see who's around to ask aquestion for me.
And um we'll kind of just divein and we'll use this
trust-based approach uh as aperspective to try and solve as
(08:01):
many problems as possible.
So if you're interested indirect consulting or coaching
with us, just get my free bookat the trustbook.com and you can
simply order the book.
It goes in the mail to youphysically, and there's an
opportunity to schedule a timewith either myself or one of my
coaches to work with you or havea chat with you about your
situation.
Um, those are for folks who wantto solve the problem quickly.
(08:22):
If you want to learn your waythrough this, then join our
community at regalper.comforward slash free and get
involved.
There's different levels thatyou can get involved with, but
just getting inside our world initself, in our ecosystem,
through osmosis, hopefullyyou'll be able to understand and
learn that this is the way forsuccess in the future for if
you're selling something.
(08:42):
Uh, but if you're selling theold with the old model, you're
feeling the pain right now.
I'm sure you are.
Uh, most folks are who come ourway.
So, on that note, Steve, uh, howare we looking back there?
SPEAKER_04 (08:53):
All righty, we're looking good.
I would just like to firstapologize to the city of
Cleveland for what happened toyou last night.
As a city, you have failed, andNew York is gonna dominate you
in this basketball series.
I just had to say it, you know.
I don't have my orange because Igave it to my kids' principal.
But we've got Matt Dillingham.
I'm gonna bring Matt on.
He's laughing already.
I hope he's a Knicks fan.
Man, I hope you're not fromCleveland, Matt.
(09:15):
No, I'm in Virginia.
SPEAKER_05 (09:16):
I don't follow basketball.
I'm more soccer in UFC.
SPEAKER_04 (09:19):
So all right, so you're not uh you have no horse
in it, and but but you watchedthat you watched that
seven-second beatdown of of Ginaand Ronda then over the weekend.
SPEAKER_05 (09:26):
But boy, I watched a replay.
I was pretty good.
I was like, well, that didn'tlast that long.
SPEAKER_04 (09:30):
I was like, all right, but hey, it was if just
one sneeze and you missed theentire fight.
Pretty much, pretty much.
All right, so uh since youhaven't been on before, if you
could let everybody know who youare, a little bit about yourself
and your business, and then yourquestion for Ari.
SPEAKER_05 (09:44):
I've been on before, it's been a minute, but uh my
name is Matt Dillingham.
I'm the owner of uh IntuitiveAdvising, and we offer credit
repair, business credit, andcoaching.
SPEAKER_03 (09:52):
So that's who I am.
Got it.
Okay, so fill me in on your kindof so you do coaching on how to
repair people's credit, is thatright?
And a service around that?
SPEAKER_05 (10:03):
It's it's more so to fix the root cause of what got
you there in the first place onthe personal side and go for
business, but that's different.
So as I joke, as I joke, thecredit repair is the gateway
drug into the coaching aspect,if you're right.
SPEAKER_03 (10:18):
Yeah, all right, the pre and post, got it.
SPEAKER_05 (10:20):
Yeah, um, so I met with a prospect um at a I was a
vendor at a baby expo two weeksago, and she gave I she she
expressed interest in creditrepair, I have her number and
followed her, follow up with herthe following, the week
following, and she said, Hey,give now's like a time, contact
me the 19th.
(10:40):
That was yesterday.
Said reach out to yesterday.
She said, Now follow me nextweek.
And I'm like, okay, I'm notgonna do this again in game.
So what would be a good thing tosay, like, look, just you know,
just to just end it and say, I'mgonna let you be.
If you need me, I'm gonna moveon from here.
SPEAKER_03 (10:58):
So all right, first of all, let's let's go back to
the beginning and figure out howyou got here.
SPEAKER_05 (11:04):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (11:05):
Okay, then we'll we'll we'll see what we can do
on the back end of this thing.
Yes.
So let me get this right.
You met her at a show of somesort.
She assumed you were at a boothof some sort, right?
Yes, came up to the booth.
She came to the booth, you had aquick chat, she said, I'm
interested in this, and you saidand you probably collected her
details, I assume, and then yousaid to her, uh great, I'll
(11:26):
follow up with you and and andwe'll talk then.
Is that something like that?
SPEAKER_05 (11:29):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (11:31):
Okay.
So my question is for you is howcome you didn't schedule her on
your calendar at the booth?
SPEAKER_05 (11:38):
Did not cross my mind.
SPEAKER_03 (11:40):
Okay.
This is the source of yourproblem.
SPEAKER_05 (11:44):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (11:46):
Right.
So you're so you're soconditioned to assume a lead and
the next step is the nextfollow-up.
That's that's how you've beenwired.
See, you're your your so yourbrain goes, Oh, great, I got a
lead.
Awesome.
I'll follow up with them.
See, for you, that's yourconditioning as a normal
behavior.
See, for us, that's that'sabnormal.
(12:06):
You should never do that.
SPEAKER_02 (12:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (12:08):
You have them at the first conversation, they're in
the most interested.
That was the moment of the peakwhen their their brain was
focused on the problem and theywanted to help.
That was the exact moment you,as the doctor, she would
schedule them on your calendar.
So you might say, she says, You,yeah, I'm interested in this
coaching, and I'd like to talkabout it.
(12:28):
You say, No problem, no problem.
Well, why don't we schedule atime right now?
On our I got my calendar righthere, my laptop, and let's
schedule a time, and then youcan bring along your situation,
your challenges, and I can kindof diagnose what's going on and
give you some.
Here's the key word insights,not information, some insights
on how to help you with this.
Would that be okay if you shouldleave?
(12:49):
Would that would you be open tothat?
Now, obviously, if they'relegit, they're not gonna say no.
Correct.
She sounded like she was legit,yes, but your process did not
allow her the schedule on yourcalendar.
She dropped in the black hole,and now you got stuck chasing
her.
Do you know what I'm trying tosay?
Yes.
(13:09):
So, what I'm trying to say isyou have one moment of everyone
who's listening to this has onemoment of time when your lead or
prospect is the most focused onthe problem, and that is the
first meeting or the firstcontact, first conversation.
So, in your case, the firstconversation was at the booth.
In a lot of other people'scases, it's on a zoom call
(13:32):
wherever it starts.
That's the moment it all has tohappen.
So frick's number one schedulethem on the spot so there is no
more follow-up at all in yourworld.
Follow-up like goes awayforever.
Okay, and then you you work offwhat I call a calendar
relationship with these clientsor these people.
(13:52):
You work by appointment only.
That's like your model, like adoctor.
You work, you can say it.
Yeah, I only work by appointmentonly.
I just I just don't followpeople.
I'm sorry, I don't think peopleI'm kind of like doctor, you
know.
I I only work because I'm busyand I work by appointment.
I'm gonna give you somelanguaging here and permission
(14:14):
for you to break out of yourboxer and in the sales mode or
anything to say to people, youknow what?
And when you do that withpeople, they respect that,
right?
They go, wow, he's not gonnachase me.
Yeah, that's okay.
I'm I'm game.
Let's let's give this a try.
Because nobody wants to bechased, right?
(14:36):
Nobody, and you can say it topeople, you can say, I just
don't chase folks.
I'm sorry, it's not what I do.
I am a trust builder, and wework by probably the only people
who're serious.
So if you want to work with havesome insight, so anyways, that's
how you solve the problem fornot having ever again.
All right, got it.
Thank you.
Here's what you can do with heron the back end, if anything, is
(14:57):
I would send her what I call theapology email.
Are you aware of that?
SPEAKER_05 (15:02):
Yeah, it's in your book.
SPEAKER_03 (15:03):
That I yeah, yeah, it's what I'm there.
You go.
Okay, so one of my books there,but I'll all for the audience
who's listening or watching,I'll I'll provide the context.
So clearly, you chasing her isnot working because somehow she
feels pursued by you, right?
You're you're putting energy onher, and she's saying, I don't
want to be pursued.
(15:24):
So we have to reverse it andsend her a message, which could
be true, and and following yoursword and say, you know, hi
Julie, it's you know, whateverhere.
And uh, I'm just I'm justwriting you not here's the key
phrase, not to move thingsforward.
And their brain goes, Oh,they're gonna stop chasing me
(15:48):
now.
Uh, I'm just writing you to toapologize because maybe I didn't
provide you with what you neededwhen we met the show.
I should have offered you theopportunity to have a chat then.
I should have maybe uh I shouldhave given you more some
information then.
Maybe maybe maybe I didsomething wrong.
You blame yourself, right?
(16:08):
Not them because clearly you didsomething wrong, you're just
being honest with her, and youjust say, Look, I'm just writing
you for some feedback.
That's the key word.
For some feedback for how Icould have I could have improved
or done a better job when I metyou to build better more trust.
I love your thoughts andfeedback.
That's how people improve in thefuture.
(16:29):
Would you be open to that?
Dot dot dot.
That that's the email that goesout.
Okay, that humanizes you.
It gets you out of the salesstereotype that people hate to
get out of from a show like thatbeing chased.
And you might get to the truth.
When I used to do live eventsseminars, I used to have all the
(16:50):
attendees bring their laptopswith them, and at lunchtime,
they had I had them all sendthis one email out to all the
people they're chasing.
We got back for lunch, theyopened the laptop, it was so
many responses in their inbox,like within 15 minutes.
And you know what they usuallysaid?
They usually said, Oh no, no,no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_05 (17:07):
It's not you, it's the real issue, what's going on?
I I sent it, I sent a text to acouple people, an email.
I got one person responding tofound out what happened.
I went, Oh wow, I had no idea.
It's like, thank you, but itdoes work.
SPEAKER_03 (17:22):
So yeah, yeah.
Your goal is the truth, myfriend, not the sale.
SPEAKER_05 (17:25):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (17:26):
So focus on that trust building, okay?
We'll do.
All right, be well.
All right, thank you.
Okay, no worries.
So we're back here uh with theuh stump the guru show.
And as you're hearing, uh,there's a lot of folks who are
uh still in that loop, thatcontinuous loop of having a
contact, maybe conversation,then following up and chasing,
(17:49):
and now stuck in a black hole.
And just so you know, every daythat goes by, those leads get
colder and colder and colder andcolder, and the odds of
converted them go lower andlower and lower and lower.
That's what I call the path ofmost resistance.
Your job is to compress thatsales cycle, bring it forward,
(18:10):
and not, I know it sounds kindof strange, not do any sales
activities that connect you tothe stereotype of selling.
Selling itself has beencommoditized as we know it.
And if you find yourself fallinginto those behavior patterns,
um, like doing free consulting,educating people, relationship
(18:31):
building up front without trustbuilding, a rapport that can
appear to be fake, um, you'reyou're in trouble.
Uh, and you have to you have toupgrade your skills get skill
set skill set to learn how tobuild trust with people and not
sell the people.
If trust is a different conceptand different skill set is not
being taught anywhere.
(18:51):
No universities teach this, uh,no courses outside our walls
teach this in our way.
And so I'd encourage you toreach out and ask for help.
Don't be afraid because you haveto shift to where the market's
at right now, and that is awe're not a commoditized market,
and everyone's being shocked.
And if you're just selling likeeverybody else, you know that
(19:14):
leads.
All right, Steve.
So uh who else is back theretoday?
SPEAKER_04 (19:18):
Alrighty.
So we have people back here thataren't gonna be coming on after
talking to them.
Some are not ready, some justdon't, you know, it's all good.
But I'm gonna bring Sam onbecause hey Sam, how are you,
buddy?
SPEAKER_01 (19:29):
Hey Steve, hey um you and I right hey Ari, good to
see you again.
SPEAKER_03 (19:34):
Yeah, you too.
SPEAKER_01 (19:35):
Hey, I got a bit of an exercise that I'm gonna
encourage all of you as thebusiness owners to do.
And this is straight fresh offsomething I experienced with a
client recently.
Had a client, much like whatyou're saying, engaged in a lot
of follow-up, a lot ofprocessing.
And I said to the client, Isaid, How much time do you spend
(19:56):
doing all the follow-ups?
Tell me about it, right?
And he went through and told meall about it, not to mention all
the dead calls, all the peoplethat don't respond, let alone
the conversations he has, allthe time that's involved around
that.
And then I said to him, thinkcarefully about your business
and tell me how many actualsales do you get from all that
(20:18):
activity?
And he thought about it, and hethought, uh, you know what?
Next to nothing.
Very is it really rarelyhappens.
So when you look at thatequation, the sale, yeah, look,
you're gonna get someoccasionally, of course, things
happen, right?
I mean, that's you know, that'sjust numbers, but when you think
(20:40):
about the return that you getfrom a sale compared to all of
that activity multiplied by yoursalespeople consistently all
day, every day, it's it's apretty unbalanced equation.
And and when he saw that, herealized that because time's
your most valuable asset, timeis where you get the most amount
(21:03):
of return.
He's now diverted that to betterlead generation activities to
target his qualified people,more targeting, less like a
funnel and more like a cylinder,and is enjoying not only greater
success, but a lot more peace ofmind and a lot more, a lot less
bandwidth on things that gonowhere.
(21:25):
So I just you know, listening toyou talk about that, I thought
that's a good exercise foreverybody to just be honest with
yourself and have a think.
SPEAKER_03 (21:32):
Well, here's the thing, Sam.
Everyone, every business owneris wired to view their sales
process as a funnel.
Where it's wide at the top,narrows to the middle, and
narrows the bottom.
So the top of their doing isputting as much as they can at
the top social media, podcasts,leads, whatever.
(21:53):
And then they spend all theirtime and money in the middle of
this process chasing,qualifying.
Following up.
Now at the bottom, a few marblesmight come out, right?
Like I did hear someone say tome, Well, Ari, after two years,
I finally got the sale, so it'sworth chasing somebody.
Well, after two years, you'velost probably 90% of what you
(22:14):
could have made if you wouldfocus on not the chasing
process, but the trust-basedprocess.
And I think I think you'reright.
I think it's a hidden, expensivecost to have a business owner or
sales team spend any time at allin a chasing process trying to
get a hold of people, as ifthat's the norm.
See, the the irony of the wholething is most heads of sales or
(22:36):
business owners assume a salesteam's job, their time should be
spent pursuing leads.
No, their job should be spentface to face or on Zoom or on
Teams converting leads to an asa new client, not chasing them.
(22:57):
And replacing the chasingprocess with AI or some CRM
system does not solve theproblem either.
There should be no chasing.
You need to introduce your teamand yourself to the concept of
what I call the one call salecompressing cycle.
I don't mean a sign contract, Imean a commitment on the first
meeting to a next step in yourprocess.
(23:17):
So they stay on your counter,not off your counter.
But I appreciate that exercise.
I think it's important thateverybody finally admit to
themselves that the middle ofthe funnel piece, chasing
opportunities is the worst placeto be because that's where all
your time, expense, and money islost.
SPEAKER_01 (23:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, the other illusionthat people have is they have a
conversation and they think, oh,what a great conversation, but
they didn't, they didn't getthey didn't get the sale, they
didn't go on the calendar, theydidn't go the next step, they
didn't commit to your process,they fall off, and people think
to themselves, but that's okay.
I'm gonna go, they're gonnaenter my nurturing system, as
you said.
Oh, we've got a we've got aprocess to handle all the
(23:55):
follow-ups, and they givethemselves this illusion of
relief, thinking, oh, it's okaystill.
Guess what?
It's not okay.
SPEAKER_03 (24:02):
All right, it's it's yeah, it's crazy.
It's crazy.
And Sam, I guess someone elsecoming in now.
Let's catch one more guest, andthen I appreciate you stopping
by.
Thank you, Sam.
I know you're missing.
All right.
So Steve, we have one more photoperson back there.
SPEAKER_04 (24:16):
Yep, I'm gonna bring Ryan on.
Ryan just popped in.
Hey Ryan, how are you today?
Oh, your mic's not on.
SPEAKER_06 (24:25):
Yeah, the sounds there we go.
I'm getting some echo.
I'm not quite sure how to.
SPEAKER_03 (24:31):
No problem.
So uh yeah, so maybe Ryan, letus know kind of what you do and
and what your challenge mightbe.
Sure.
SPEAKER_06 (24:38):
I'm a financial advisor, financial planner, and
I have the opportunity to workwith uh Christian denomination
of pastors, and uh I've we wehave a an association.
SPEAKER_03 (24:51):
Can you come a little bit closer to the mic?
It's kind of cutting out, I'mnot sure why.
unknown (24:56):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (24:56):
If you were watching it live at arigalper.com slash
live and then enteredStreamYard, you want to close
the live window from Ari Galperbecause you'll have that playing
at the same time that you'relive here in the studio.
Oh that should yeah, that shouldhelp fix things.
SPEAKER_03 (25:13):
Yeah, that's right.
That'd be a tech issue if youhave both windows open.
So just close the Ari Live umscreen and then you're you'll be
inside uh the the show, so tospeak.
There we go.
Okay.
SPEAKER_06 (25:26):
Nice.
I was getting some echo uh so Iwork with a group of pastors,
and so I've had severalconversations recently where
people leading denominationswhere they ask us to uh come in
and help uh work with their uhindividuals in their churches or
their pastors because they're anunderserved area.
(25:47):
And uh, I've had severalconversations recently where
they have said, oh, this isgreat, we we really need you, uh
we need to set something up andschedule a meeting, but uh you
know, the meeting for whateverreason doesn't happen.
And now I feel like I'm chasingthem to get them back on the
calendar and uh trying to figureout how to best uh phrase this
(26:07):
uh to uh to get the bestresponse.
Uh and you know, I've sent acouple messages over the past
couple days, and and these arepeople that said, we are so glad
to connect with you and wereally need your your help.
So uh I've been listening to youoff and on for a year or so and
read a couple books and uh wasjust looking forward to to being
on this call today to ask somequestions.
SPEAKER_03 (26:28):
I appreciate you coming on, I really do.
So let me let me go back acouple of steps.
So you had a physical meetingwith them?
Is that the the pastor incharge, or or what how what was
the last conversation you hadwith them?
SPEAKER_06 (26:38):
It was about uh two weeks ago.
We had a meeting with twodifferent uh one was a bishop,
one was the uh the financedirector for a group of
churches.
Gotcha.
And uh so we have a guaranteedissue policy for for you know
the association and then uhgroup benefits plans for pastors
that they really don't haveanything.
(27:00):
No, that's great.
SPEAKER_03 (27:01):
And and and it was left with the idea that we
schedule uh a you presenting.
Is that what what the next stepwas to present something?
SPEAKER_06 (27:08):
Yeah, we we left with we've scheduled a follow-up
meeting.
Well, we scheduled a meeting toto discuss, you know, okay,
here's your next steps.
Let's have been using wordslike, well, I I I said uh would
it make sense for us to check inin a week or so to uh to to
reconnect and and answeranything?
All right, so hold on a second.
SPEAKER_03 (27:29):
Did you schedule a meeting with them?
Yes or no from the first meetingon your calendar?
SPEAKER_06 (27:32):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (27:33):
Oh, you had a schedule, you so you sat there,
let's schedule together, andwe'll meet again on Wednesday,
whatever, four o'clock, whateverit was, right?
SPEAKER_06 (27:40):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (27:41):
So did they not show up or or what happened?
SPEAKER_06 (27:44):
It was uh yeah, uh all these meetings they they
didn't show, and I I did riskthey did get a response finally.
Oh, we were we were I was on traI was traveling today
unexpectedly.
Oh, and then you know, let's reslet's reconnect.
How's the schedule over the nextcouple weeks?
SPEAKER_03 (28:00):
And you know, okay, so I got it.
So they committed to you.
The chemistry was gay, great,but they didn't show up to your
scheduled meeting.
Yeah, how many days apart wasthe next meeting?
SPEAKER_06 (28:12):
Um, it's it was within a week.
We had a schedule within a week.
Okay.
And so okay.
I've got apologies saying, ohman, we we weren't able to meet
in then when I hear some timesand dates.
And this is after, you know,very much uh a lot of interest
in you know, excitement aboutthe conversation.
SPEAKER_03 (28:31):
Yeah, I know they always give you the hopium drug,
kind of pretend it's all gonnabe made.
We're so excited to have youwith us.
Um, but do you have an assistantof some sort?
Uh can that in your it can workwith you?
What I'm suggesting to you isyou need to implement having an
assistant who calls them beforethe second meeting to remind
(28:52):
them of the meeting they havecommitted to with the doctor.
You're the doctor, they're thepatient.
I think you're missing thatpiece there because then either
they would have caught thechange of date or they would
have been, oh yeah, you'reright.
They they remember how seriousthat commitment was for them.
So that's one piece that couldprevent this from happening
again is to have an assistant,so to speak, call the key people
(29:13):
and say, just want to confirmtwo o'clock on Friday, you're
meeting with you know Ryan, andwant to make sure you'll be on
time.
And that there's a lot, there'sa lot of weight with that.
Uh, we have a team that doesthat for us, and people kind of
like go, oh right, thanks forthe reminder.
Almost like, because whathappens is Ryan, in the first
meeting, the chemistry isincredible.
(29:33):
It's like it's like fireworkseverywhere.
So you you leave feeling like,oh my god, this was amazing.
They leave the next after whenyou left, they forgot about you.
Nothing personal, they don'tfeel like it was amazing, they
just leave the next task theyhave to do.
So you're hoping and waiting andexcitement, and they've already
forgotten about you.
Not not a personal thing, it'sjust the way it works.
(29:56):
So you need someone on your teamto call, not email, but to call
them to remind them of their ofthe voice connection of the
seriousness of the nextcommitment.
Okay, that's this one fix toprevent this from happening
again.
It it helps us a lot.
It might help you as well.
Now, yeah, that's great.
So now the next step is you'retrying to get them to circle
back and schedule again.
(30:16):
And they said, Do you whatagain?
What was the last comment fromthem?
What was the last uh messagefrom them?
SPEAKER_06 (30:25):
Oh, the the the it was yesterday uh on one of them,
and it was uh well I he said Iknow you're very busy.
Oh, let's see.
So sorry, Ryan.
Yes, need to reschedule.
I know you're very busy.
Are there times and dates thatwould work for you better for
you?
And uh, but I've had a response.
SPEAKER_03 (30:46):
All right, do you can do you have someone who can
call on your behalf?
Here's what I want to doscheduling is below your pay
grade, Ryan.
You should not be anadministration assistant
scheduling with emails, likethat's as low as your profile
and your positioning.
You need to this is the issue.
You need someone in the role toplay the tennis game to do the
(31:08):
connection for you, to schedulethe meeting with you, the
doctor.
The doctor is busy with thepatients.
Now you're the front desk all ofa sudden, your role is shifting,
and now they treat you likethat.
Did you see what I'm trying tosay?
The positioning there, yeah.
So I would I would stopreplying.
Go find, preferably, uh afriendly person who can work
(31:30):
with you and call on yourbehalf.
Like pick up the phone and callthem and say, Hi, I work with
Ryan's office here.
I'm uh he's quite busy.
I'm trying to find a schedule tofind some time for him to talk
to you.
Can we quickly have a quickdiscussion about what's a good
time and I'll get you locked in?
Okay, that's because really youdoing this is not working.
SPEAKER_06 (31:50):
Yes.
I'm I'm handling I'm handlingeverything rather than
delegating.
SPEAKER_03 (31:56):
Correct.
Your job is the positionyourself as the doctor who's
busy with patients.
You don't do admin work.
That's not your job.
Scheduling, emailing, times anddates, not showing up, following
up should not be your job,visibly.
(32:19):
That makes a lot of sense.
It's easy to get caught up inthat because we think we have a
quote relationship with them.
Somehow they just we connected,so they're gonna work with us.
Clearly, they're not.
What happens is you will dropdown their priority list real
quick after a couple days.
(32:39):
They almost forgot about thefirst conversation because it's
not you, it's just that thepriorities are always uh
adjusting all the time, andthose people's lives are
frazzled with the the world andtexts and social media.
So people's brains unfortunatelyaren't like they used to be,
where they actually remember uhthe previous meeting, they
actually forget about that.
(33:00):
Now, you and I, the sellersremember it like it was like the
extra five minutes ago.
Yes, oh, it was a great meeting,it was awesome, but they're
really excited.
Why are they not contacting you?
So, what I'm trying to say isput yourself on their shoes and
implement a process that keepsthem alive and viewing you as
somebody who's more busy thanthem.
(33:21):
Got it.
That makes a that makes a lot ofsense.
unknown (33:24):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (33:25):
Awesome, awesome.
So try that and come back andlet's know how that goes, okay?
Okay, I appreciate it.
Thanks for your time.
All right, thanks for coming on.
All right, well, that ends ourstump the girl show today.
We're a little bit over time.
Uh, but I think the theme offollowing up and chasing, as you
can, as you heard today, is socritical for everyone to avoid
this process.
And if you want to learn more,uh join our community for free
(33:47):
at uh arigalper.com forwardslash free to start uh or come
directly to us at the trust oftrustbook.com, order my book,
get engaged, get involved, anddon't be afraid to learn
something new because it mightbe that right under your nose
you're doing certain things andI've been realizing it, losing
the sale.
On that note, we'll say goodbyefor now.
Thanks for everybody coming inand we'll talk soon.
(34:09):
This will be now a podcast onSpotify, all the channels to
listen to, and we'll be in touchsoon.
Take care, everybody, signingoff.
SPEAKER_00 (34:16):
We hope you've enjoyed this month's segment of
Stump the Guru and that you'vediscovered some new trust-based
selling strategies that you canapply directly to your sales
process.
You can get access to Ari'strust-based selling 60-minute
masterclass atwww.unlockthegame.com forward
slash video.
(34:36):
And if you want to go one stepfurther, you can order his
latest book, Unlock the SalesGame, and get a free one-on-one
sales growth consultation atwww.unlockthegame.com.
Before we say goodbye for now,if you enjoyed this podcast,
please take a moment to reviewthis podcast.
It's easy.
(34:57):
Just scroll down to the bottomof Stump the Guru Podcast within
Apple Podcasts until you reachratings and reviews.
Click one of the five starsunder tap to rate to leave a
rating.
Thanks so much, and we'll seeyou on the next show.
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