April 29, 2026 • 31 mins
The problem isn’t them -- it’s the pressure they feel from traditional follow-ups.
I’ll teach you how to create a process where prospects feel safe to re-engage without feeling chased.
It’s about shifting the dynamic from pursuit to collaboration.
In this month’s Stump The Guru show, I’ll tackle one of the most frustrating challenges in selling: Why prospects go silent.
I've made it my life’s mission to create the clarity that is missing in the traditional sales process, through decades of working with thousands of business owners all over the world, refining Trust-Based Selling into a true art form:
· Stop "chasing" ghosts (leads that never call you back!)
· Make the sale in ONE conversation, without pressure
· Stop selling, create deep trust instead
I’ve taken my mission one step further and created a livestream show called “Stump The Guru’” -- where you get the opportunity to jump on live and ask me your toughest sales questions that you’d love an answer for.
Get Ari's latest best-selling book "Trust In A Split Second!" for FREE along with a Complimentary Lead & Sales Growth Consultation (Value $995.00) at http://www.UnlockTheGame.com/FreeConsult, and join him as a guest on his podcast "Stump The Guru" and get your chance to ask Ari one-on-one questions, fill in the form to be clickable to this link: https://links.arigalper.com/widget/form/rh5YanDqzZqPHVBCKlKG
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Hi everyone, welcome to Stump the Guru podcast with
your host, Ari Galpa, theworld's number one authority on
trust-based selling and thecreator of Unlock the Game.
This monthly podcast will bringyou guests from virtually every
industry unrehearsed to try andstump Ari with their most
difficult sales challenges.
(00:21):
This podcast is for businessowners, financial advisors,
entrepreneurs, and salesexecutives.
The guests on this show haveonly one goal in mind: to stump
Ari.
And Ari has one goal in mind (00:33):
to overturn the notion of selling
as we know it today by buildingtrust between buyers and
sellers.
SPEAKER_05 (00:43):
Hey everybody, welcome.
It's Ari Galp here.
Galp right here with uhtrust-based selling is Stump the
Guru.
Hope you're all doing well.
Uh, if you're new to the show,what we do here is um, you don't
know, we specialize intrust-based selling uh for the
last two decades.
We've been challenging the salesprocessing game in whole so many
different ways.
We have clients all over theworld, subscribers.
(01:05):
We have our new community calledSelling with Trust.
Uh, if you're not in ourcommunity, you you should.
It's free to join.
Uh, that's rvegalper.com forwardslash free.
And uh and this is youropportunity today to sort of
jump on live if you're around toask me a live question.
We do live coaching here.
Uh, it's called Stump the Gurufor a reason.
Uh, we have folks that are arewant to typically ask me a
(01:28):
question about a challenge theymight have, and uh, I share
insights that from the groundlevel that we see every day with
folks who are challenged aroundcomplex sales situations,
chasing opportunities.
Uh, as you know, we are what Icall the trust recession right
now, where it's more difficultthan ever to convert to convert
leads to clients because uhwe're we're in a commoditized
(01:51):
age, so to speak.
So we're being shopped and thegame has changed.
And if you're selling stillselling the old way, you're
gonna have a real difficult timestaying ahead of the curve.
Um, so this this show is also apodcast.
You can listen to on Spotify,and it's a chance to really kind
of have me share insights andunravel what I'm working on.
(02:11):
Uh, I also have Sam here aswell, my business partner will
also be available to have uschat together.
Um, but I'm gonna start the showby first of all um mentioning,
of course, the the app that wehave now, which is our
community, real quick.
Again, to emphasize if you wantto access our content and get
involved with other trust-basedbusiness owners and network, uh,
please join us, regalber.comforward slash free.
(02:34):
Um, so today's theme is thiswhole notion around the idea
that having to chase a leadafter first meeting, why they
don't commit to us, why they saythings like, I want to think
about it, um, call me next week,and all of a sudden they go into
a black hole and we're stuckchasing them.
(02:54):
And we've been sold for years bymarketing agencies and systems
and CRM models that our job isto accept that process and build
essentially a nurturingsequence, build a follow-up
email.
Um, follow-up has becomeexpected as normal, that they
(03:15):
should be in your pipeline, havestages, move them from stage one
to stage two, follow up toproposal, and then we spend all
of our time inside that chasingprocess, hopefully at the end,
squeezing out a client.
And a lot of my work has beendesigned to counter that.
Where if you build trust withsomeone, you don't have to
(03:37):
follow up with them at all.
There is no sequence fornurturing because if they're
qualified and they're theproblem they want to solve, then
they'll commit to you toschedule a time on your calendar
for a next step in your process.
But let me tell you why mostpeople get stuck in chasing
leads and needing more leads tomeet their numbers because of
(04:01):
certain behaviors we've beentaught to do up until now.
Uh, for instance, a lot of folkswho are in a low volume, high
margin model, what I callexperts, they have what I call
the expert syndrome, where theyhave a need to prove their
expertise to a new opportunityin a first meeting.
They want to they educate them,they provide value, they do what
I call free consulting.
(04:21):
And the problem with that iswhen you provide information to
somebody who doesn't know youyet, that information now fills
up in their brain and they haveto think about what you gave
them, which leaves no room atall for them to trust you.
Trust and proving your value arenot correlated anymore.
(04:42):
What I mean by that is valuedelivery in itself has been
commoditized.
It's not trust building.
Here's why because everybodyelse does the same in your
market.
Everyone tries to deliver value,deliver education.
It's now become so commoditized,it's expected.
That's why value delivery is nottrust building anymore.
(05:05):
So your goal is to stopdelivering value, stop educating
your prospects, and insteadprovide them with clarity, deep
clarity inside their own issues,inside their own challenges.
What I call go down the iceberg,learn how to build trust with
folks, and stop working on thisis hard to say, but stop working
(05:26):
on relationship building.
Your job is not to build arelationship with them pre-sale,
it is post-sale, but notpre-sale.
Why?
Because the word relationship isloaded, it forces you to have
them like you.
You have to create chemistrywith them.
And relationships in the realworld take a lot of time to get
(05:46):
the trust, and that creates avery long sales cycle.
So if you've been conditionedand trained by your sales
managers or your partner, oryou've got to where you are
right now because you are reallygood at relationship building,
that is now a problem becausethe market shifted.
Your leads are not reaching outto you to build a relationship
(06:08):
with you.
They're not looking for a newfriend, nothing personal.
They're looking to solve aproblem.
But what do we do?
We overlay a social structure ontop of the conversation, which
removes the professionalstructure.
And now all of a sudden, you'retrying you're trying to create
what I call a peer-to-peerconnection, a peer-to-peer
(06:31):
level.
And that creates social banter,social connection.
And they're going to be nice toyou as well because you started
the process.
Uh, and but the problem withthat is you're no longer the
doctor, you're now their buddy,you're now their friend.
And there's deep-seated needinside of us is for them to like
us.
And so you're waiting for themto like you, and you think that
the end of your call, if it goeswell, there's chemistry, that
(06:53):
was an awesome call, and they'lltake your call when you call
them next week.
Now, when they left that call,you have warm feelings about it.
You have what I call the hopiumdrug in their body.
It felt great, it was a greatconversation, right?
When they leave your call, theydon't have those feelings, they
don't have this warm, badfeelings of oh, what a great
(07:15):
guy.
I really liked him.
He's so nice.
I think I'm gonna choose himover anybody else.
See, we think the relationshippart is the glue that creates
trust with people, and it doesif you're willing to wait a very
long time yourself likely to getthere.
Okay, so but your goal is tostop relationship building
(07:39):
altogether and learn how tobuild trust instead, like a
doctor does with a patient.
Bedside manner, empathy,trust-based questions, not
talking, not being thepharmacist too early on,
whatever one's which everyonedoes.
And that takes a shift in yourthinking because you have to let
go of what you think you've beendoing has been correct all these
(08:02):
years to catch up with where theworld's at right now.
And in many, in many cases, yourprospects are frazzled.
They already have informationabout you, they know what you
do, they've already got valuefrom your free content you
delivered online, your socialmedia.
They've heard your podcast, theyalready get what you do.
They're not calling you tochallenge your credibility,
(08:24):
they're not calling to challengeyour efficacy.
They can't prove you're good atwhat you do until when, until
after they're a client, notbefore they're a client.
So I want to emphasize thereason why you're forced to
chase people and chase leads isbecause most likely you are
quote selling in your process inthe way you've always been doing
(08:45):
it.
But if you shift your model to atrust-based model, they will
commit you on the first meetingto schedule on your calendar for
a next step in your own roadmapprocess.
So we'll leave it there forthere for now, and we'll open up
the show and see who's online tocome in and ask me a question.
Steve, how's it going backthere?
(09:09):
I don't see Steve.
Okay.
Uh Steve, you can come on back.
Uh, if not, I want to try andlet somebody in here if I can on
my own.
Uh let's see if I can.
Hey, well, we'll let's see.
I see Patrick here.
Hey, let me let's see if I cando this myself.
Add awesome.
I just added Patrick, I think.
Patrick, are you are you comingin?
(09:29):
I see your name back here, andyou're live.
If you can hear me, Patrick, sayhello.
I can hear you.
SPEAKER_04 (09:36):
Uh actually good, how are you?
I'm good.
Haven't seen you in a while.
Yeah, likewise.
You're looking great.
Thanks.
SPEAKER_03 (09:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (09:48):
Yeah, things are really good.
SPEAKER_05 (09:49):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (09:50):
Good, good.
So I have my son that works withme, and he's uh embracing
everything you're you're uhputting out.
I just want you to know that.
unknown (10:00):
Okay.
SPEAKER_05 (10:01):
We're next generation, right?
SPEAKER_03 (10:03):
Yeah, so um yeah, we're still baffled why people
won't uh get back in touch withus after they've had an
opportunity to get the initialuh information.
And either um what typicallyhappens is they'll offload it to
someone else to make thedecision.
(10:24):
So maybe you could speak tothat, how to how to avoid that.
I normally tell them, well, Ineed you to make the decision,
don't do this to us, but uh I'lllet you I'll let you uh answer
it.
SPEAKER_05 (10:36):
Let's go back for a second.
You mentioned the word youprovided them information.
SPEAKER_03 (10:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (10:41):
What information did you provide them on your first
thing?
SPEAKER_03 (10:43):
Uh how much they they uh just on a surface level,
uh what we think uh we could doin terms of uh reducing certain
expenses.
And you know, we have enoughinformation to tell them that,
and then it becomes a wholeissue of well, do they believe
(11:04):
that or not?
If they believe it, we'll getthe information.
SPEAKER_05 (11:08):
Okay, hold on a minute now.
SPEAKER_03 (11:09):
It is a trust issue.
SPEAKER_05 (11:11):
What what you're doing there, which you may not
be aware of, Patrick, is you'reproviding them advice, insights,
and concepts and information tohelp them with their problem, I
think in that first meeting.
Is that right?
Is what I'm hearing.
SPEAKER_03 (11:28):
Well, I think so, although I try very hard to
focus on the problem, uh, whichis to say, here's here's the
problem we've uncovered.
Now, do you want to deal withthis now, or do you want to wait
six months when it's cost youanother$60,000?
SPEAKER_05 (11:44):
I understand.
I think you're you're definitelyproblem focused, but I'm also
hearing from what you just said,you're also providing the
prescription with some ideas,some context.
And therein lies the problem,Patrick, is that your job is not
to provide them any informationon that first meeting.
Your job is only to unpack theirsituation, yeah, help them
(12:07):
understand the seriousness ofit, and then do you have your
roadmap to show them what yourprocess is for how you work, and
you save the information you'regonna provide them for the first
stage of the next step.
Otherwise, if you combine it alltogether, they feel full, they
(12:27):
feel like, wow, I got so muchfrom him that was so helpful.
Now I'm gonna go think about itand go somewhere else.
So it's hard to untangle that atfirst because our instinct is to
prove to them we know what we'redoing.
SPEAKER_03 (12:43):
Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_05 (12:44):
Show them ideas.
So consider the idea for amoment of just having deeper
questions around the COI cost ofan action and help them
understand their situation.
Is not simple, it's complicated,and walk them through your
roadmap.
Do you still have that roadmapthat we had talked about a while
back?
Yeah, that visual tool.
Make sure you bring that out foryour first meetings, that'll
(13:05):
kind of solve the problem there.
SPEAKER_03 (13:07):
Okay, great.
SPEAKER_05 (13:08):
Thanks.
Good to see you again.
Take care.
Good to see you.
All right, excellent.
So we're back with the uh stumpthe guru show.
Um, and uh, we're live.
This is a chance to jump on, askme a question.
Um, this is all abouttrust-based selling and um how
to avoid getting stuck in thechasing game.
(13:28):
That's the theme for today.
So we'll we'll bring on Brandonnext, and uh Steve's out, so
I'll take over myself here, andI'm gonna click on Brandon and
see if we can pull him in.
Uh Brandon, if you're backthere, maybe say hello.
And then we'll uh we'll continueon here.
(13:49):
If you're trying to get on, umthat's okay.
We'll uh keep you there.
Unmute your mic if you can.
And uh if not, I'm gonna bringin Sam.
I see Sam here as well.
Let me grab Sam.
Sam, come on in.
I think you're there.
There you are.
(14:10):
Awesome.
Let me just uh take Brandon outhere.
So good, good.
How are you, Sam?
SPEAKER_01 (14:15):
Excellent, thanks.
I just got a message from Stevesaying he's in damage control,
he's got some IT issues, so uhhe's trying to get back in very
quickly.
SPEAKER_05 (14:24):
Well, the show must go on, and here we are.
The show is going on withoutSteve and no AI either, just A R
I, R E.
Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_01 (14:33):
Well, at least people, at least people know
it's live.
SPEAKER_05 (14:37):
It is live, and we are somehow managing through it.
Uh, as Steve is back there,which is cool.
Okay, so um uh so yeah, so Sam,what you know, Sam has been with
me for a long time, uh one of mypartners here.
Uh, he's a lot of experience onthe ground level with challenges
with businesses that are lowvolume, high margin.
Uh, and what's your take on thetheme from today, from your
(14:58):
experience?
SPEAKER_01 (14:59):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I couldn't agree more.
I mean, you you're right in thefact that the world has become a
little bit uh it's shifted,obviously, and it's conditioned.
And the mentality of prospectsis that they feel they have all
the power, they have all thecontrol, and that you know, they
make an inquiry or if they asksomebody, they just think you
(15:21):
come to me, right?
I'm I'm the guy, I got themoney, so therefore, you know,
you serve me.
So, in many respects, this is alittle bit of a battle of
control.
But if you think about them,their expectations, they're
expecting you to come to them,they're expecting you to do
educate them to buy all thisfree consulting, and then
(15:41):
they're expecting you to chasethem, and they're expecting the
follow-up.
So, in their head, they'rethinking, I don't have to do
anything here because I knowthey're gonna chase me, they're
gonna follow me up, and and allthat sort of thing.
So, from their perspective, theyhave no urgency, and also in a
lot of cases, as you said,they've got a lot of the
(16:03):
prescriptions, they've got themedicine, people are the
pharmacists and the doctor,they've got a lot of what they
need, and of course, that leadsto I need to think about it,
I've got everything I need now.
Let me chew it over.
SPEAKER_05 (16:15):
Sam, I think you said an important word there,
and that is the wordexpectations.
And what happens is we don't wetry and meet their expectations,
and we get sucked into theirprocess, so they're you're
right, their expectations areI'm gonna contact this person
and get information from thembecause I know information is
(16:39):
portable, I take the informationand I can shop around.
And the reason why they'rethinking like that because they
want information first as a wayto prevent being sold, they've
been so burnt of being sold,they know information is a way
to block that process.
So, what do we do?
We oblige with theirexpectation, we give them what
(17:02):
they want, and off they go.
Also, we're trying to if you'retrying to re-organize their
expectations, realignment towhat our expectation is, which
is the sale.
Here we are trying to battletheir expectation, trying to get
them to like us and to know us,and it turns out they have no
interest in any of that.
(17:23):
They're not looking for arelationship, like I said
before, they're looking forinformation to prevent being
sold.
And I think once you understandwhere the market's at right now,
and you're still trained andconditioned to sell the other
way, and you're not having a wayto redirect them into your
clinic, so to speak, as thedoctor, then you'll be in the
(17:46):
shopping mall with them and notin a clinic with them, and
you'll be stuck, unable to grow.
SPEAKER_01 (17:53):
Absolutely, and you think about it from this but
their perspective, every timethey get a call or an outbound
reach or anything, you know, intheir head they're thinking this
person's gonna try and sell mesomething.
Of course, that's why they'reringing me, right?
They've got an agenda, sothey're already in that mindset
thinking I'm gonna be sold to.
So, of course, their guard isright up, they're not gonna open
(18:13):
up and tell you what theirproblems are, what their
frustrations, because they knowthat the minute they give
anything, then you're gonna jumpinto, well, let me tell you how
I can help, right?
So, and the other battle is thatthey know that your product or
your offering is commoditized,there's others that do what you
do.
So, once again, that wholefeeling of I've got all the all
(18:34):
the aces, I've got all thecards.
But here's another thing that'sreally crazy is that they're
also been in the game for awhile, they know the the the
strategies of some salespeople.
I mean, everybody knows thatsales 101 is build rapport,
right?
And I remember some of my oldearlier, earlier, old school
(18:57):
mentors will say, Sam, findcommon ground, right?
So they know that as soon assomeone opens up typically and
starts saying I remember that,find common ground, yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (19:09):
You know, it's why you go see a doctor, they're not
looking for common ground,they're saying where does it
hurt?
SPEAKER_01 (19:15):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
That so they they know, right?
So, yeah, um, but I think whatyou just said there was perfect.
I mean, doctors don't do anyfollow-up, don't I do any
chasing?
That I do you get a call from adoctor, you got their attention.
I mean, it's yeah, it's tiny.
SPEAKER_05 (19:35):
They work on a buy appointment only model, yeah.
That's the model you and I andothers teach our clients is to
shift their process and systemand operating model to a buy
appointment only business whereyou build a system out where you
move somebody from step A tostep B on your calendar, not
your CRM.
(19:56):
You see, what's interestingabout this when people fall into
the trap into chasing mode, thethe salesperson moves them from
stage one to stage two,following up as if that's a
stage.
That's not a stage, that's ablack hole.
The stage should be from callone to call two, not call one to
following up stage.
They're already lost by that inmost cases.
(20:16):
Sure, after a year of pursuingthem, they might come out of
nowhere, but really you want towait that long and lose what's
everything in between that, andthat's the real shift,
especially in now in the age ofAI and technology, where
everyone's trying to build moreautomated ways to contact
people, especially in the salesprocess, automated text,
automated emails, and they thinkthat you win the game through
(20:41):
follow-up, which is completelywrong.
You win the game through trustbuilding at hello, which is so
counterintuitive and socontrarian in the age where
everyone's buying AI tools totry and solve the follow-up
problem.
You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_01 (20:58):
Oh, totally, totally.
And and you know, that it getsdown to the similar things, you
know, about the contacts.
I mean, look, a lot of peopledon't even answer their phones
anymore.
They know that a lot of callsare random, that possibly an AI.
So, you know, the the scene,it's just not efficient anymore.
So the the efficient model is byappointment only.
(21:19):
That way it avoids like even ifyou did manage to call people,
chance uh could be the wrongtime, or you leave a message,
then they're calling you back.
It's it's just such a just itjust doesn't work.
Whereas having that appointment,first of all, it does filter out
a few people.
I mean, if they're serious andthey know they're gonna discuss
(21:40):
their problem, just like youwould a doctor, you'd make an
appointment, right?
SPEAKER_05 (21:43):
If they're not willing, if your leads are not
willing from the first meetingto schedule a next step with
you, that means you didsomething wrong, not them.
SPEAKER_01 (21:55):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (21:56):
Let's say I was lost at hello, not at the end of the
call, okay?
Because somewhere in yourprocess, you defaulted back to
the behaviors we're suggestingnot to do, which is unraveling
what you think you should bedoing, which is the whole
chemistry relationship thing,becoming their friend, giving
value thing.
And the more you let go of thatway of thinking, the more people
(22:17):
are open to working with youbecause they trust you.
If they trust you, they willschedule with you.
If they don't trust you, youhave no appointment next.
That's the that's the one factorthat is missing for huge amounts
of opportunities that being lostright now.
Uh real quick, Sam, is thereanyone else back there, Steve?
Is Brandon, I think, was sittingback there as well.
I think he no, not there.
(22:38):
Okay, cool.
Okay, so let me let me justcheck with Brandon one more.
SPEAKER_06 (22:41):
I don't even know if you can hear me or not because
it's all the whole world looksfull floated just now, 360
degrees.
But everybody that's in thewaiting room has no no cameras
and no microphones are listedfor anybody.
So okay, they're they'relurking.
SPEAKER_05 (22:57):
Okay, I see.
I do see Brandon here.
Mike is on, so I'm gonna try himreal quick.
If you wouldn't mind pullingback, Steve, and I'll pull him
in real quick.
Yeah, sure.
Let's bring Brandon on and seewhat goes.
Let's see if the uh Brandon, ifyou're there, you get one.
Hey, I'll he is back there.
Excellent.
Is your camera working or not,Brandon?
SPEAKER_02 (23:16):
I cannot get this to work.
Uh, the interface, I'm uhtechnically challenged.
Uh, I tried to come in to justview, but the only way I could
get in is to come in and ask aquestion live.
SPEAKER_05 (23:27):
That's all right.
We believe you're for real.
You're not AI.
So you got Sam and I here.
So what's what tell us aboutyour business and what you do
and your challenge.
SPEAKER_02 (23:36):
So I'm in the financial advisory business,
Ari.
And uh, we've had some sessionsin the past, and just lately uh
I've been working with adifferent ad agency, and they're
uh people are using a Rothconversion calculator, getting
uh on my calendar, few and farbetween.
Uh, but they're coming to meusing a calculator, right?
(23:59):
And so I try and diffuse justgiving them the calculator
results that this calculator ispart of a bigger picture of what
you may need, and ask them whatis the real reason why you're
trying to figure out how toconvert an IRA account.
SPEAKER_05 (24:16):
So let me see if I get this right.
You have a lead, go on yourwebsite or fill out a calculator
somewhere, and they can't getthe results unless they have a
call with you.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_02 (24:24):
Correct.
SPEAKER_05 (24:25):
Okay, so they show up on the call.
I assume it's a zoom meeting ofsome sort.
How does the meeting begin?
How does it start?
What are they saying to you?
SPEAKER_02 (24:34):
So I set the framework that we help people uh
with Roth conversions, but whatwe find is it's generally a
small part of a bigger problem.
Is that what you're saying?
SPEAKER_05 (24:46):
Is that what you say from the beginning?
You're that way?
SPEAKER_02 (24:48):
Yeah, so I set the framework, uh, and then we go
into a little more frameworkabout uh the time frame as well
that we have.
SPEAKER_05 (24:55):
All right, so so let me throw an idea out to you,
Brennan, okay?
SPEAKER_02 (24:57):
Sure.
SPEAKER_05 (24:58):
When they show up on the call, don't provide a
framework at all.
Okay, here's what you sayinstead.
You say, nice to meet you, niceto meet you as well.
Don't mention the calculator,don't mention R R A, don't
mention anything with of theirprevious experience with you.
Just simply say this.
If you wouldn't mind, take astep back for a moment.
(25:20):
Walk me through your background,your situation, up to your
current financial concerns youhave that that cause you to want
to fill the calculator out.
We'll go from there.
Would that be okay with you?
SPEAKER_02 (25:29):
Okay.
SPEAKER_05 (25:30):
From the beginning, go backwards and give them a
chance to tell you their story.
Don't start where they left offin their process, okay?
Because they want someone theycan trust to tell the story to.
So don't you don't have to frameit with the calculator.
Just start like the doctor.
If it's okay with you, take astep back for a second, John.
Walk me through your background,the big patriot situation, and
(25:53):
your financial concerns thatbrought you here will go from
there.
Would that be okay with you?
Take your fingers like this overyour mouth, sit back like on
your chair like a doctor.
And give them create space.
Don't frame anything.
Create an open space to allowthem to feel comfortable
downloading on you and tellingyou their story.
(26:16):
Add hello.
SPEAKER_04 (26:20):
What do you think about that?
SPEAKER_02 (26:21):
I like it.
Yeah, I'm stuck on thiscalculator thing and uh then
trying to fade back, but don'teven mention it.
SPEAKER_05 (26:31):
Don't mention anything.
It's kind of like this.
Here's it, here's the metaphor.
When you go see a second opinionfor a doctor, he doesn't ask you
the first opinion.
He doesn't care about the firstopinion.
He just says, What does it hurt?
Same thing with you.
Who cares where they came from?
All you know is they have afinancial concern.
(26:52):
Start with nice your trustbuilding here.
Nice to meet you, nice to meetyou as well.
If you wouldn't mind, Mike, takea step back for a second, walk
me through your backgroundsituation up to your current
concerns.
We'll go from there.
Would that be okay with you?
And sit back and give themspace, let them open up to you,
then you can do your thing fromthere.
SPEAKER_02 (27:09):
Got it.
SPEAKER_05 (27:12):
Great question.
And this is where we get stuckoftentimes using these frames to
try and control the process.
And all they really want is totrust somebody.
So that is a great scenario, andI'm glad you brought that up.
Thank you so much, by the way.
Brand.
Um are you our in our communityby a chance in our in our new
community?
Have you joined it yet?
SPEAKER_02 (27:33):
Yes.
Yep.
Download the app in thecommunity.
SPEAKER_05 (27:37):
Perfect.
All right.
Then I'll see you inside.
Okay.
Take care.
All right.
Well, Sam, that was a that was agreat question he asked because
that is so classic where we'vebeen trained to fight the battle
to try and frame them againsttheir frame.
And now we're and he wasfighting it because that's what
he was taught to do.
But what we're trying to do isunshackle that that that
(27:58):
structure and allow the personto feel drop the guard to feel
comfortable opening up to us.
I think that's what trust isabout is not creating
resistance, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (28:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
Another example of that thatprospect thinking they're in
control, these guys are gonnaserve me, and if there's one
person, there's plenty, and uhlet me know what you got.
SPEAKER_05 (28:21):
Yeah, yeah.
So I think we have to understandthat the patient should not
control the process of thedoctor.
SPEAKER_01 (28:29):
Yes, that's the key.
SPEAKER_05 (28:31):
The doctor must be the authority, have the
structure and the process thatthe patient abides by and
conforms with and becomescompliant with.
They may not like it, but it'sthe best for them because we're
the experts and they're not, andif you're not pre-positioned
that way, you will be stuckfighting a battle at a pure
(28:55):
level, and they won't be able torespect you of all things.
Respect comes from authority ofpositioning and from your
ability to build trust in thatfirst meeting.
SPEAKER_01 (29:06):
Yeah, exactly.
You don't go to a doctor and youdon't say, Look, I've done some
research, this is what I've got,this is what I need.
Just give me that bottle ofmedicine over there, and we're
all good.
Thanks very much.
Thompson's gonna say, Are you ondrugs?
SPEAKER_05 (29:17):
Not my drugs, but some other drugs.
So, look, on that note, we'llsay goodbye for now, Sam.
Thanks for showing up today.
Appreciate that.
I always can count on you, anduh, we'll uh see everybody next
time our live.
This will be live uh in ourrecording in our in the podcast
on Spotify or on YouTube aswell.
Uh, if you're not inside of ourcommunity, I'm not sure what
(29:39):
you're doing, but make sure youjoin, go to a regalper.com
forward slash free.
It's free to join.
You can get my course for free,mastering the mindset inside
there.
You can network with otherbusiness owners who are trust
based.
And we are going to be growing aglobal network all over the
world with this in localchapters, local cities around
the world.
And we're gonna go big aroundour trust movement.
(29:59):
So get into it now while youcan.
Talk soon, everybody.
Sounding off.
See everybody soon.
Bye-bye.
SPEAKER_00 (30:07):
We hope you've enjoyed this month's segment of
Stump the Guru and that you'vediscovered some new trust-based
selling strategies that you canapply directly to your sales
process.
You can get access to Ari'strust-based selling 60-minute
masterclass atwww.unlockthegame.com forward
slash video.
(30:27):
And if you want to go one stepfurther, you can order his
latest book, Unlock the SalesGame, and get a free one-on-one
sales growth consultation atwww.unlockthame.com.
Before we say goodbye for now,if you enjoyed this podcast,
please take a moment to reviewthis podcast.
It's easy.
(30:48):
Just scroll down to the bottomof Dump the Guru Podcast within
Apple Podcasts until you reachratings and reviews.
Click one of the five starsunder tap to rate to leave a
rating.
Thanks so much, and we'll seeyou on the next show.
Hi everyone, welcome to Stump the Guru podcast with
your host, Ari Galpa, theworld's number one authority on
trust-based selling and thecreator of Unlock the Game.
This monthly podcast will bringyou guests from virtually every
industry unrehearsed to try andstump Ari with their most
difficult sales challenges.
(00:21):
This podcast is for businessowners, financial advisors,
entrepreneurs, and salesexecutives.
The guests on this show haveonly one goal in mind: to stump
Ari.
And Ari has one goal in mind (00:33):
to overturn the notion of selling
as we know it today by buildingtrust between buyers and
sellers.
SPEAKER_05 (00:43):
Hey everybody, welcome.
It's Ari Galp here.
Galp right here with uhtrust-based selling is Stump the
Guru.
Hope you're all doing well.
Uh, if you're new to the show,what we do here is um, you don't
know, we specialize intrust-based selling uh for the
last two decades.
We've been challenging the salesprocessing game in whole so many
different ways.
We have clients all over theworld, subscribers.
(01:05):
We have our new community calledSelling with Trust.
Uh, if you're not in ourcommunity, you you should.
It's free to join.
Uh, that's rvegalper.com forwardslash free.
And uh and this is youropportunity today to sort of
jump on live if you're around toask me a live question.
We do live coaching here.
Uh, it's called Stump the Gurufor a reason.
Uh, we have folks that are arewant to typically ask me a
(01:28):
question about a challenge theymight have, and uh, I share
insights that from the groundlevel that we see every day with
folks who are challenged aroundcomplex sales situations,
chasing opportunities.
Uh, as you know, we are what Icall the trust recession right
now, where it's more difficultthan ever to convert to convert
leads to clients because uhwe're we're in a commoditized
(01:51):
age, so to speak.
So we're being shopped and thegame has changed.
And if you're selling stillselling the old way, you're
gonna have a real difficult timestaying ahead of the curve.
Um, so this this show is also apodcast.
You can listen to on Spotify,and it's a chance to really kind
of have me share insights andunravel what I'm working on.
(02:11):
Uh, I also have Sam here aswell, my business partner will
also be available to have uschat together.
Um, but I'm gonna start the showby first of all um mentioning,
of course, the the app that wehave now, which is our
community, real quick.
Again, to emphasize if you wantto access our content and get
involved with other trust-basedbusiness owners and network, uh,
please join us, regalber.comforward slash free.
(02:34):
Um, so today's theme is thiswhole notion around the idea
that having to chase a leadafter first meeting, why they
don't commit to us, why they saythings like, I want to think
about it, um, call me next week,and all of a sudden they go into
a black hole and we're stuckchasing them.
(02:54):
And we've been sold for years bymarketing agencies and systems
and CRM models that our job isto accept that process and build
essentially a nurturingsequence, build a follow-up
email.
Um, follow-up has becomeexpected as normal, that they
(03:15):
should be in your pipeline, havestages, move them from stage one
to stage two, follow up toproposal, and then we spend all
of our time inside that chasingprocess, hopefully at the end,
squeezing out a client.
And a lot of my work has beendesigned to counter that.
Where if you build trust withsomeone, you don't have to
(03:37):
follow up with them at all.
There is no sequence fornurturing because if they're
qualified and they're theproblem they want to solve, then
they'll commit to you toschedule a time on your calendar
for a next step in your process.
But let me tell you why mostpeople get stuck in chasing
leads and needing more leads tomeet their numbers because of
(04:01):
certain behaviors we've beentaught to do up until now.
Uh, for instance, a lot of folkswho are in a low volume, high
margin model, what I callexperts, they have what I call
the expert syndrome, where theyhave a need to prove their
expertise to a new opportunityin a first meeting.
They want to they educate them,they provide value, they do what
I call free consulting.
(04:21):
And the problem with that iswhen you provide information to
somebody who doesn't know youyet, that information now fills
up in their brain and they haveto think about what you gave
them, which leaves no room atall for them to trust you.
Trust and proving your value arenot correlated anymore.
(04:42):
What I mean by that is valuedelivery in itself has been
commoditized.
It's not trust building.
Here's why because everybodyelse does the same in your
market.
Everyone tries to deliver value,deliver education.
It's now become so commoditized,it's expected.
That's why value delivery is nottrust building anymore.
(05:05):
So your goal is to stopdelivering value, stop educating
your prospects, and insteadprovide them with clarity, deep
clarity inside their own issues,inside their own challenges.
What I call go down the iceberg,learn how to build trust with
folks, and stop working on thisis hard to say, but stop working
(05:26):
on relationship building.
Your job is not to build arelationship with them pre-sale,
it is post-sale, but notpre-sale.
Why?
Because the word relationship isloaded, it forces you to have
them like you.
You have to create chemistrywith them.
And relationships in the realworld take a lot of time to get
(05:46):
the trust, and that creates avery long sales cycle.
So if you've been conditionedand trained by your sales
managers or your partner, oryou've got to where you are
right now because you are reallygood at relationship building,
that is now a problem becausethe market shifted.
Your leads are not reaching outto you to build a relationship
(06:08):
with you.
They're not looking for a newfriend, nothing personal.
They're looking to solve aproblem.
But what do we do?
We overlay a social structure ontop of the conversation, which
removes the professionalstructure.
And now all of a sudden, you'retrying you're trying to create
what I call a peer-to-peerconnection, a peer-to-peer
(06:31):
level.
And that creates social banter,social connection.
And they're going to be nice toyou as well because you started
the process.
Uh, and but the problem withthat is you're no longer the
doctor, you're now their buddy,you're now their friend.
And there's deep-seated needinside of us is for them to like
us.
And so you're waiting for themto like you, and you think that
the end of your call, if it goeswell, there's chemistry, that
(06:53):
was an awesome call, and they'lltake your call when you call
them next week.
Now, when they left that call,you have warm feelings about it.
You have what I call the hopiumdrug in their body.
It felt great, it was a greatconversation, right?
When they leave your call, theydon't have those feelings, they
don't have this warm, badfeelings of oh, what a great
(07:15):
guy.
I really liked him.
He's so nice.
I think I'm gonna choose himover anybody else.
See, we think the relationshippart is the glue that creates
trust with people, and it doesif you're willing to wait a very
long time yourself likely to getthere.
Okay, so but your goal is tostop relationship building
(07:39):
altogether and learn how tobuild trust instead, like a
doctor does with a patient.
Bedside manner, empathy,trust-based questions, not
talking, not being thepharmacist too early on,
whatever one's which everyonedoes.
And that takes a shift in yourthinking because you have to let
go of what you think you've beendoing has been correct all these
(08:02):
years to catch up with where theworld's at right now.
And in many, in many cases, yourprospects are frazzled.
They already have informationabout you, they know what you
do, they've already got valuefrom your free content you
delivered online, your socialmedia.
They've heard your podcast, theyalready get what you do.
They're not calling you tochallenge your credibility,
(08:24):
they're not calling to challengeyour efficacy.
They can't prove you're good atwhat you do until when, until
after they're a client, notbefore they're a client.
So I want to emphasize thereason why you're forced to
chase people and chase leads isbecause most likely you are
quote selling in your process inthe way you've always been doing
(08:45):
it.
But if you shift your model to atrust-based model, they will
commit you on the first meetingto schedule on your calendar for
a next step in your own roadmapprocess.
So we'll leave it there forthere for now, and we'll open up
the show and see who's online tocome in and ask me a question.
Steve, how's it going backthere?
(09:09):
I don't see Steve.
Okay.
Uh Steve, you can come on back.
Uh, if not, I want to try andlet somebody in here if I can on
my own.
Uh let's see if I can.
Hey, well, we'll let's see.
I see Patrick here.
Hey, let me let's see if I cando this myself.
Add awesome.
I just added Patrick, I think.
Patrick, are you are you comingin?
(09:29):
I see your name back here, andyou're live.
If you can hear me, Patrick, sayhello.
I can hear you.
SPEAKER_04 (09:36):
Uh actually good, how are you?
I'm good.
Haven't seen you in a while.
Yeah, likewise.
You're looking great.
Thanks.
SPEAKER_03 (09:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (09:48):
Yeah, things are really good.
SPEAKER_05 (09:49):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (09:50):
Good, good.
So I have my son that works withme, and he's uh embracing
everything you're you're uhputting out.
I just want you to know that.
unknown (10:00):
Okay.
SPEAKER_05 (10:01):
We're next generation, right?
SPEAKER_03 (10:03):
Yeah, so um yeah, we're still baffled why people
won't uh get back in touch withus after they've had an
opportunity to get the initialuh information.
And either um what typicallyhappens is they'll offload it to
someone else to make thedecision.
(10:24):
So maybe you could speak tothat, how to how to avoid that.
I normally tell them, well, Ineed you to make the decision,
don't do this to us, but uh I'lllet you I'll let you uh answer
it.
SPEAKER_05 (10:36):
Let's go back for a second.
You mentioned the word youprovided them information.
SPEAKER_03 (10:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (10:41):
What information did you provide them on your first
thing?
SPEAKER_03 (10:43):
Uh how much they they uh just on a surface level,
uh what we think uh we could doin terms of uh reducing certain
expenses.
And you know, we have enoughinformation to tell them that,
and then it becomes a wholeissue of well, do they believe
(11:04):
that or not?
If they believe it, we'll getthe information.
SPEAKER_05 (11:08):
Okay, hold on a minute now.
SPEAKER_03 (11:09):
It is a trust issue.
SPEAKER_05 (11:11):
What what you're doing there, which you may not
be aware of, Patrick, is you'reproviding them advice, insights,
and concepts and information tohelp them with their problem, I
think in that first meeting.
Is that right?
Is what I'm hearing.
SPEAKER_03 (11:28):
Well, I think so, although I try very hard to
focus on the problem, uh, whichis to say, here's here's the
problem we've uncovered.
Now, do you want to deal withthis now, or do you want to wait
six months when it's cost youanother$60,000?
SPEAKER_05 (11:44):
I understand.
I think you're you're definitelyproblem focused, but I'm also
hearing from what you just said,you're also providing the
prescription with some ideas,some context.
And therein lies the problem,Patrick, is that your job is not
to provide them any informationon that first meeting.
Your job is only to unpack theirsituation, yeah, help them
(12:07):
understand the seriousness ofit, and then do you have your
roadmap to show them what yourprocess is for how you work, and
you save the information you'regonna provide them for the first
stage of the next step.
Otherwise, if you combine it alltogether, they feel full, they
(12:27):
feel like, wow, I got so muchfrom him that was so helpful.
Now I'm gonna go think about itand go somewhere else.
So it's hard to untangle that atfirst because our instinct is to
prove to them we know what we'redoing.
SPEAKER_03 (12:43):
Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_05 (12:44):
Show them ideas.
So consider the idea for amoment of just having deeper
questions around the COI cost ofan action and help them
understand their situation.
Is not simple, it's complicated,and walk them through your
roadmap.
Do you still have that roadmapthat we had talked about a while
back?
Yeah, that visual tool.
Make sure you bring that out foryour first meetings, that'll
(13:05):
kind of solve the problem there.
SPEAKER_03 (13:07):
Okay, great.
SPEAKER_05 (13:08):
Thanks.
Good to see you again.
Take care.
Good to see you.
All right, excellent.
So we're back with the uh stumpthe guru show.
Um, and uh, we're live.
This is a chance to jump on, askme a question.
Um, this is all abouttrust-based selling and um how
to avoid getting stuck in thechasing game.
(13:28):
That's the theme for today.
So we'll we'll bring on Brandonnext, and uh Steve's out, so
I'll take over myself here, andI'm gonna click on Brandon and
see if we can pull him in.
Uh Brandon, if you're backthere, maybe say hello.
And then we'll uh we'll continueon here.
(13:49):
If you're trying to get on, umthat's okay.
We'll uh keep you there.
Unmute your mic if you can.
And uh if not, I'm gonna bringin Sam.
I see Sam here as well.
Let me grab Sam.
Sam, come on in.
I think you're there.
There you are.
(14:10):
Awesome.
Let me just uh take Brandon outhere.
So good, good.
How are you, Sam?
SPEAKER_01 (14:15):
Excellent, thanks.
I just got a message from Stevesaying he's in damage control,
he's got some IT issues, so uhhe's trying to get back in very
quickly.
SPEAKER_05 (14:24):
Well, the show must go on, and here we are.
The show is going on withoutSteve and no AI either, just A R
I, R E.
Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_01 (14:33):
Well, at least people, at least people know
it's live.
SPEAKER_05 (14:37):
It is live, and we are somehow managing through it.
Uh, as Steve is back there,which is cool.
Okay, so um uh so yeah, so Sam,what you know, Sam has been with
me for a long time, uh one of mypartners here.
Uh, he's a lot of experience onthe ground level with challenges
with businesses that are lowvolume, high margin.
Uh, and what's your take on thetheme from today, from your
(14:58):
experience?
SPEAKER_01 (14:59):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I couldn't agree more.
I mean, you you're right in thefact that the world has become a
little bit uh it's shifted,obviously, and it's conditioned.
And the mentality of prospectsis that they feel they have all
the power, they have all thecontrol, and that you know, they
make an inquiry or if they asksomebody, they just think you
(15:21):
come to me, right?
I'm I'm the guy, I got themoney, so therefore, you know,
you serve me.
So, in many respects, this is alittle bit of a battle of
control.
But if you think about them,their expectations, they're
expecting you to come to them,they're expecting you to do
educate them to buy all thisfree consulting, and then
(15:41):
they're expecting you to chasethem, and they're expecting the
follow-up.
So, in their head, they'rethinking, I don't have to do
anything here because I knowthey're gonna chase me, they're
gonna follow me up, and and allthat sort of thing.
So, from their perspective, theyhave no urgency, and also in a
lot of cases, as you said,they've got a lot of the
(16:03):
prescriptions, they've got themedicine, people are the
pharmacists and the doctor,they've got a lot of what they
need, and of course, that leadsto I need to think about it,
I've got everything I need now.
Let me chew it over.
SPEAKER_05 (16:15):
Sam, I think you said an important word there,
and that is the wordexpectations.
And what happens is we don't wetry and meet their expectations,
and we get sucked into theirprocess, so they're you're
right, their expectations areI'm gonna contact this person
and get information from thembecause I know information is
(16:39):
portable, I take the informationand I can shop around.
And the reason why they'rethinking like that because they
want information first as a wayto prevent being sold, they've
been so burnt of being sold,they know information is a way
to block that process.
So, what do we do?
We oblige with theirexpectation, we give them what
(17:02):
they want, and off they go.
Also, we're trying to if you'retrying to re-organize their
expectations, realignment towhat our expectation is, which
is the sale.
Here we are trying to battletheir expectation, trying to get
them to like us and to know us,and it turns out they have no
interest in any of that.
(17:23):
They're not looking for arelationship, like I said
before, they're looking forinformation to prevent being
sold.
And I think once you understandwhere the market's at right now,
and you're still trained andconditioned to sell the other
way, and you're not having a wayto redirect them into your
clinic, so to speak, as thedoctor, then you'll be in the
(17:46):
shopping mall with them and notin a clinic with them, and
you'll be stuck, unable to grow.
SPEAKER_01 (17:53):
Absolutely, and you think about it from this but
their perspective, every timethey get a call or an outbound
reach or anything, you know, intheir head they're thinking this
person's gonna try and sell mesomething.
Of course, that's why they'reringing me, right?
They've got an agenda, sothey're already in that mindset
thinking I'm gonna be sold to.
So, of course, their guard isright up, they're not gonna open
(18:13):
up and tell you what theirproblems are, what their
frustrations, because they knowthat the minute they give
anything, then you're gonna jumpinto, well, let me tell you how
I can help, right?
So, and the other battle is thatthey know that your product or
your offering is commoditized,there's others that do what you
do.
So, once again, that wholefeeling of I've got all the all
(18:34):
the aces, I've got all thecards.
But here's another thing that'sreally crazy is that they're
also been in the game for awhile, they know the the the
strategies of some salespeople.
I mean, everybody knows thatsales 101 is build rapport,
right?
And I remember some of my oldearlier, earlier, old school
(18:57):
mentors will say, Sam, findcommon ground, right?
So they know that as soon assomeone opens up typically and
starts saying I remember that,find common ground, yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (19:09):
You know, it's why you go see a doctor, they're not
looking for common ground,they're saying where does it
hurt?
SPEAKER_01 (19:15):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
That so they they know, right?
So, yeah, um, but I think whatyou just said there was perfect.
I mean, doctors don't do anyfollow-up, don't I do any
chasing?
That I do you get a call from adoctor, you got their attention.
I mean, it's yeah, it's tiny.
SPEAKER_05 (19:35):
They work on a buy appointment only model, yeah.
That's the model you and I andothers teach our clients is to
shift their process and systemand operating model to a buy
appointment only business whereyou build a system out where you
move somebody from step A tostep B on your calendar, not
your CRM.
(19:56):
You see, what's interestingabout this when people fall into
the trap into chasing mode, thethe salesperson moves them from
stage one to stage two,following up as if that's a
stage.
That's not a stage, that's ablack hole.
The stage should be from callone to call two, not call one to
following up stage.
They're already lost by that inmost cases.
(20:16):
Sure, after a year of pursuingthem, they might come out of
nowhere, but really you want towait that long and lose what's
everything in between that, andthat's the real shift,
especially in now in the age ofAI and technology, where
everyone's trying to build moreautomated ways to contact
people, especially in the salesprocess, automated text,
automated emails, and they thinkthat you win the game through
(20:41):
follow-up, which is completelywrong.
You win the game through trustbuilding at hello, which is so
counterintuitive and socontrarian in the age where
everyone's buying AI tools totry and solve the follow-up
problem.
You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_01 (20:58):
Oh, totally, totally.
And and you know, that it getsdown to the similar things, you
know, about the contacts.
I mean, look, a lot of peopledon't even answer their phones
anymore.
They know that a lot of callsare random, that possibly an AI.
So, you know, the the scene,it's just not efficient anymore.
So the the efficient model is byappointment only.
(21:19):
That way it avoids like even ifyou did manage to call people,
chance uh could be the wrongtime, or you leave a message,
then they're calling you back.
It's it's just such a just itjust doesn't work.
Whereas having that appointment,first of all, it does filter out
a few people.
I mean, if they're serious andthey know they're gonna discuss
(21:40):
their problem, just like youwould a doctor, you'd make an
appointment, right?
SPEAKER_05 (21:43):
If they're not willing, if your leads are not
willing from the first meetingto schedule a next step with
you, that means you didsomething wrong, not them.
SPEAKER_01 (21:55):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (21:56):
Let's say I was lost at hello, not at the end of the
call, okay?
Because somewhere in yourprocess, you defaulted back to
the behaviors we're suggestingnot to do, which is unraveling
what you think you should bedoing, which is the whole
chemistry relationship thing,becoming their friend, giving
value thing.
And the more you let go of thatway of thinking, the more people
(22:17):
are open to working with youbecause they trust you.
If they trust you, they willschedule with you.
If they don't trust you, youhave no appointment next.
That's the that's the one factorthat is missing for huge amounts
of opportunities that being lostright now.
Uh real quick, Sam, is thereanyone else back there, Steve?
Is Brandon, I think, was sittingback there as well.
I think he no, not there.
(22:38):
Okay, cool.
Okay, so let me let me justcheck with Brandon one more.
SPEAKER_06 (22:41):
I don't even know if you can hear me or not because
it's all the whole world looksfull floated just now, 360
degrees.
But everybody that's in thewaiting room has no no cameras
and no microphones are listedfor anybody.
So okay, they're they'relurking.
SPEAKER_05 (22:57):
Okay, I see.
I do see Brandon here.
Mike is on, so I'm gonna try himreal quick.
If you wouldn't mind pullingback, Steve, and I'll pull him
in real quick.
Yeah, sure.
Let's bring Brandon on and seewhat goes.
Let's see if the uh Brandon, ifyou're there, you get one.
Hey, I'll he is back there.
Excellent.
Is your camera working or not,Brandon?
SPEAKER_02 (23:16):
I cannot get this to work.
Uh, the interface, I'm uhtechnically challenged.
Uh, I tried to come in to justview, but the only way I could
get in is to come in and ask aquestion live.
SPEAKER_05 (23:27):
That's all right.
We believe you're for real.
You're not AI.
So you got Sam and I here.
So what's what tell us aboutyour business and what you do
and your challenge.
SPEAKER_02 (23:36):
So I'm in the financial advisory business,
Ari.
And uh, we've had some sessionsin the past, and just lately uh
I've been working with adifferent ad agency, and they're
uh people are using a Rothconversion calculator, getting
uh on my calendar, few and farbetween.
Uh, but they're coming to meusing a calculator, right?
(23:59):
And so I try and diffuse justgiving them the calculator
results that this calculator ispart of a bigger picture of what
you may need, and ask them whatis the real reason why you're
trying to figure out how toconvert an IRA account.
SPEAKER_05 (24:16):
So let me see if I get this right.
You have a lead, go on yourwebsite or fill out a calculator
somewhere, and they can't getthe results unless they have a
call with you.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_02 (24:24):
Correct.
SPEAKER_05 (24:25):
Okay, so they show up on the call.
I assume it's a zoom meeting ofsome sort.
How does the meeting begin?
How does it start?
What are they saying to you?
SPEAKER_02 (24:34):
So I set the framework that we help people uh
with Roth conversions, but whatwe find is it's generally a
small part of a bigger problem.
Is that what you're saying?
SPEAKER_05 (24:46):
Is that what you say from the beginning?
You're that way?
SPEAKER_02 (24:48):
Yeah, so I set the framework, uh, and then we go
into a little more frameworkabout uh the time frame as well
that we have.
SPEAKER_05 (24:55):
All right, so so let me throw an idea out to you,
Brennan, okay?
SPEAKER_02 (24:57):
Sure.
SPEAKER_05 (24:58):
When they show up on the call, don't provide a
framework at all.
Okay, here's what you sayinstead.
You say, nice to meet you, niceto meet you as well.
Don't mention the calculator,don't mention R R A, don't
mention anything with of theirprevious experience with you.
Just simply say this.
If you wouldn't mind, take astep back for a moment.
(25:20):
Walk me through your background,your situation, up to your
current financial concerns youhave that that cause you to want
to fill the calculator out.
We'll go from there.
Would that be okay with you?
SPEAKER_02 (25:29):
Okay.
SPEAKER_05 (25:30):
From the beginning, go backwards and give them a
chance to tell you their story.
Don't start where they left offin their process, okay?
Because they want someone theycan trust to tell the story to.
So don't you don't have to frameit with the calculator.
Just start like the doctor.
If it's okay with you, take astep back for a second, John.
Walk me through your background,the big patriot situation, and
(25:53):
your financial concerns thatbrought you here will go from
there.
Would that be okay with you?
Take your fingers like this overyour mouth, sit back like on
your chair like a doctor.
And give them create space.
Don't frame anything.
Create an open space to allowthem to feel comfortable
downloading on you and tellingyou their story.
(26:16):
Add hello.
SPEAKER_04 (26:20):
What do you think about that?
SPEAKER_02 (26:21):
I like it.
Yeah, I'm stuck on thiscalculator thing and uh then
trying to fade back, but don'teven mention it.
SPEAKER_05 (26:31):
Don't mention anything.
It's kind of like this.
Here's it, here's the metaphor.
When you go see a second opinionfor a doctor, he doesn't ask you
the first opinion.
He doesn't care about the firstopinion.
He just says, What does it hurt?
Same thing with you.
Who cares where they came from?
All you know is they have afinancial concern.
(26:52):
Start with nice your trustbuilding here.
Nice to meet you, nice to meetyou as well.
If you wouldn't mind, Mike, takea step back for a second, walk
me through your backgroundsituation up to your current
concerns.
We'll go from there.
Would that be okay with you?
And sit back and give themspace, let them open up to you,
then you can do your thing fromthere.
SPEAKER_02 (27:09):
Got it.
SPEAKER_05 (27:12):
Great question.
And this is where we get stuckoftentimes using these frames to
try and control the process.
And all they really want is totrust somebody.
So that is a great scenario, andI'm glad you brought that up.
Thank you so much, by the way.
Brand.
Um are you our in our communityby a chance in our in our new
community?
Have you joined it yet?
SPEAKER_02 (27:33):
Yes.
Yep.
Download the app in thecommunity.
SPEAKER_05 (27:37):
Perfect.
All right.
Then I'll see you inside.
Okay.
Take care.
All right.
Well, Sam, that was a that was agreat question he asked because
that is so classic where we'vebeen trained to fight the battle
to try and frame them againsttheir frame.
And now we're and he wasfighting it because that's what
he was taught to do.
But what we're trying to do isunshackle that that that
(27:58):
structure and allow the personto feel drop the guard to feel
comfortable opening up to us.
I think that's what trust isabout is not creating
resistance, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (28:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
Another example of that thatprospect thinking they're in
control, these guys are gonnaserve me, and if there's one
person, there's plenty, and uhlet me know what you got.
SPEAKER_05 (28:21):
Yeah, yeah.
So I think we have to understandthat the patient should not
control the process of thedoctor.
SPEAKER_01 (28:29):
Yes, that's the key.
SPEAKER_05 (28:31):
The doctor must be the authority, have the
structure and the process thatthe patient abides by and
conforms with and becomescompliant with.
They may not like it, but it'sthe best for them because we're
the experts and they're not, andif you're not pre-positioned
that way, you will be stuckfighting a battle at a pure
(28:55):
level, and they won't be able torespect you of all things.
Respect comes from authority ofpositioning and from your
ability to build trust in thatfirst meeting.
SPEAKER_01 (29:06):
Yeah, exactly.
You don't go to a doctor and youdon't say, Look, I've done some
research, this is what I've got,this is what I need.
Just give me that bottle ofmedicine over there, and we're
all good.
Thanks very much.
Thompson's gonna say, Are you ondrugs?
SPEAKER_05 (29:17):
Not my drugs, but some other drugs.
So, look, on that note, we'llsay goodbye for now, Sam.
Thanks for showing up today.
Appreciate that.
I always can count on you, anduh, we'll uh see everybody next
time our live.
This will be live uh in ourrecording in our in the podcast
on Spotify or on YouTube aswell.
Uh, if you're not inside of ourcommunity, I'm not sure what
(29:39):
you're doing, but make sure youjoin, go to a regalper.com
forward slash free.
It's free to join.
You can get my course for free,mastering the mindset inside
there.
You can network with otherbusiness owners who are trust
based.
And we are going to be growing aglobal network all over the
world with this in localchapters, local cities around
the world.
And we're gonna go big aroundour trust movement.
(29:59):
So get into it now while youcan.
Talk soon, everybody.
Sounding off.
See everybody soon.
Bye-bye.
SPEAKER_00 (30:07):
We hope you've enjoyed this month's segment of
Stump the Guru and that you'vediscovered some new trust-based
selling strategies that you canapply directly to your sales
process.
You can get access to Ari'strust-based selling 60-minute
masterclass atwww.unlockthegame.com forward
slash video.
(30:27):
And if you want to go one stepfurther, you can order his
latest book, Unlock the SalesGame, and get a free one-on-one
sales growth consultation atwww.unlockthame.com.
Before we say goodbye for now,if you enjoyed this podcast,
please take a moment to reviewthis podcast.
It's easy.
(30:48):
Just scroll down to the bottomof Dump the Guru Podcast within
Apple Podcasts until you reachratings and reviews.
Click one of the five starsunder tap to rate to leave a
rating.
Thanks so much, and we'll seeyou on the next show.
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