August 5, 2026 • 32 mins
The supply chain doesn’t break in the obvious places, it breaks in the gray areas: the assumptions inside contracts, the handoffs between shipper and 3PL, and the gaps between a plan and the real world. We sit down with Sandy Hodes, Senior Vice President and Chief Procurement and Corporate Development Officer at Ryder System, to unpack how third-party logistics providers navigate supply chain volatility while still delivering service, controlling cost, and protecting relationships.
We get specific about supply chain regionalization in North America, why nearshoring and onshoring decisions are inherently multi-year, and how tariff uncertainty can pause even well-funded moves. Sandy also shares why Ryder shifted away from a global 3PL model years ago and leaned into a “port-to-door” approach built around regional customer needs, stronger synergies, and clearer execution. If you manage procurement, logistics sourcing, or supply chain strategy, you’ll hear practical guidance on what should be black-and-white in an agreement versus what needs to stay flexible for change.
From there, we dive into modern contract work and operations: AI for first-pass contract review, pulling KPIs and obligations from messy contract databases, and the real risks of AI hallucinations without human oversight. We also explore warehouse automation and robotics, including goods-to-person systems and ASRS, with a clear message that automation only works when ROI, volume, and standardization support it. Finally, we talk electric trucks and EV fleet adoption, why charging infrastructure and range still block scale, and what 2035 could look like with more automation, shifting labor markets, and bigger demands for strategic supplier relationships.
If this sparked ideas for your next logistics RFP, contract renewal, or automation roadmap, subscribe, share this with a colleague, and leave a review so more supply chain leaders can find the show.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:03):
For real stories on how global business gets done.
This is Supply Chain Unfiltered,presented by the Institute for
Supply Management.
SPEAKER_01 (00:17):
So good to have you here.
I'm Melanie Stern for ISM andanother episode.
Yep, supply chain unfiltered.
Excited about today's topic.
Lots of, I'll say flex going onin logistics, specifically 3PL
companies.
Anyone affiliated with one ofthose can attest to that.
Lots of maybe some commotion,some uncertainty, but definitely
(00:42):
a lot of strategic shifts goingon.
And we're going to focus on whatreferred to it as like the gray
area that happens with 3PLs,working with their customers,
suppliers, what happens amidvolatility, and you know, touch
(01:03):
on some areas when we areworking on contracts.
And you know, where do we wantto work off of absolutes, you
know, black and whites versusthe gray areas, the areas that
probably better off we keep asfluid to kind of you know follow
along and align better with thechanges uh across the market as
(01:26):
a whole.
To help us kind of dive intothis, I'm really happy to uh
introduce Sandy Hodes, he'sSenior Vice President Chief
Procurement and CorporateDevelopment Officer for Rider
System, Inc.
Hi, Sandy.
Good to have you here.
SPEAKER_02 (01:41):
Thanks.
Nice to be here.
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (01:44):
So I was kind of going through um your background
and all the things that youhandle over at uh Rider Systems.
You are um, let's see here, youyou kind of lead three different
business units, uh fleetmanagement solutions, dedicated
transportation solutions, supplychain solutions.
(02:08):
You're the solutions guy.
SPEAKER_02 (02:10):
So that's I don't lead those businesses, but I I
lead procurement and I lead tothe Okay, thank you, thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (02:17):
But uh nonetheless, it still sounds like a lot on
your shoulder.
So um really anxious to learn,learn from you today.
So, what do you think uh 3PLcompanies do you think that, you
know, generally speaking, um,are they ready for the shift
towards supply chainregionalization here in North
America?
SPEAKER_02 (02:38):
Um so I mean overall, but I can I can speak
to sort of where Ryder sits inthis.
And we've kind of been on thisregionalization uh plan since
probably 2008-9 when we shiftedfrom you know our customers
wanting us to be a global 3PL torealizing that really these
(02:59):
decisions were made regionallyand we would be better focusing
our business in North America.
So since that time, we've been aport-to-do player in North
America, sort of serving youknow anything that a customer
needs from you know inventorystuck in a port, missed delivery
windows, you know, anything inthe transportation realm,
(03:20):
essentially from port towherever their customer's door
is.
And as you know, we've movedthrough from the you know the
10s into the 20s, you've seenthis big push, certainly in and
post-COVID, on near-shoring andonshoring, away from uh some of
the risks of having dispersedsupply chains or long lead times
(03:41):
for product coming overseas.
I think that you know, at leastRyder was, and I think other of
our competitors have been kindof working on that with our
customers.
I think what's sort ofinteresting about where we're
sitting now is that thesedecisions are multi-year
decisions that companies make,whether they're locating a plant
or changing their supply chain.
And um, with the sort of maybeearly disruption and now a
(04:07):
little bit of uncertainty aroundtariffs, you've seen a lot of
these decisions that companieshave announced around near
shoring be pushed off a littlebit as they try to figure out
what these tariffs mean.
Um, so you know, I think workingwith the 3PL is you know
certainly helpful in thesethings, but ultimately companies
(04:27):
have to understand what theirsupply chain looks like and how
these cost factors and andgeopolitical and and regulatory
factors play.
SPEAKER_01 (04:35):
And and you mentioned that uh you had come
at this or or looked at this asa viable shift in 2008-2009.
Um uh were there can you recallmaybe were there specific
indicators that led Ryder to airthat way?
(04:56):
Or um I mean what yeah, whatwhat was involved to making that
shift?
SPEAKER_02 (05:03):
Um, you know, so we were we were in we were in the
European continent uh in a bigway, we were in South America,
we were in Asia, and I thinkwhere what we started to see
were uh was that there were fewsynergies for a supply chain
player across those markets.
Back in those days, you know,you're still at the visibility
nascency, I think I would say,right?
(05:24):
You didn't really have thesetechnologies now that allow you
to see things from um frommanufacturing site to end
delivery like you do now.
Uh and also, as I mentionedbefore, you know, we we really
felt like although our customersspoke about having a global 3PL,
in practice they really didn'tseem to want one.
(05:45):
And they mainly were looking,we're making these decisions
regionally and looking at yourcapabilities regionally.
So uh we just felt like for ourbusiness anyway, there were a
lot, you know, there's a lot ofgreat synergies that we have
across our three business unitsuh serving our customers here in
the US and in North America, andwe felt like we could add more
value to our customers if wefocused heavily on North
(06:07):
America, bring solutions toNorth America, as I mentioned,
sort of with this sort ofport-to-door philosophy as we
cover um the supply chains thatare running in America.
SPEAKER_01 (06:18):
And you you've got uh, I'll say, an extensive
background in law.
So I'm wondering from uh yourperspective and related to
suppliers, do you think there'sbeen a significant impact in how
they handle that gray area oflaw, that you know, more the
(06:38):
areas that you can massage oryou know, change or align with
you know all the changes thatare going on and and that we're
all trying to navigate in um youknow amid volatility and you
know we got changes in tariffsand you know how do you how has
that affected our suppliers, youthink?
SPEAKER_02 (06:59):
Well, I mean, I think they're certainly working
more with their legal andgovernment relations folks than
they ever have before, I wouldbet.
Um you know, these these arethese are very complicated
regulations, they're verycomplicated when they get
implemented.
Um, you know, you've seen evenjust with the tariffs on
aluminum and steel, the youknow, the devil's in the details
on what actual what actualproduct is subject to the tariff
(07:24):
based on a variety of codes.
So there's a lot of stuff there.
But I I feel like in the 3PLworld, um and with and and in
basically supplier world, thelawyers have played a strong
role in in this over over a longperiod of time.
I mean it's important tounderstand where the risks fall
with um in a customerrelationship, in a supply uh
(07:48):
purchase relationship, and andhow those risks are allocated.
So I feel like um, you know,you're gonna have ebbs and flows
on what might shift thedifferent focus within that
broad gray area of how lawworks, but um, at least my
experience here at Ryder andprior to Ryder when I when I was
practicing law, I I felt likeyou did well by your by your
(08:12):
clients to make sure they wereunderstanding fully what the
risks and obligations of theparties were.
SPEAKER_01 (08:17):
Have you ever run into a situation where a uh
customer or a potential customercomes at negotiations where they
think that they don't needcounsel to help them?
Where they it's almost like aDIY legal.
SPEAKER_02 (08:35):
Yeah, you know, writers business is interesting
in that we have, I think we havesomewhere in the neighborhood of
45,000 customers or so.
And that's because of the naturereally of the diversity of the
businesses that and the servicesthat we offer.
So we have a lot of smallcustomers that don't like using
lawyers, don't want to uselawyers.
(08:57):
We don't see that very often, ifat all, on the supply chain side
of our business, but on thelease and rental side of our
business, we see it quitefrequently.
Um, it's actually a challengefor lawyers when you're when
you're dealing with um, youknow, when you're an in-house
lawyer dealing with a customerthat doesn't want to bring a
lawyer in because you you sortof, I mean, there's some ethical
(09:18):
rules at play on what lawyerscan and can't negotiate and how
they disclose that when they'redealing with non-lawyers.
And you also want to make sureyou're giving the customer a
good experience and you're nottrying to confuse them or pull
the wool over anybody's eyes.
So, frankly, you know, we wetend to prefer when our
customers engage lawyers so thatwe can have conversations in
(09:39):
that regard.
And when they don't, we have tosort of make sure we're being as
clear and open as we can uh onthese things.
So yeah, it runs the gamut.
SPEAKER_01 (09:49):
And with with your customers, what are you finding
that they've been concentratingon most uh you know within the
last six months, last year?
Is it planning, uh design, orimplementation?
SPEAKER_02 (10:05):
Yeah, I mean that depending on the on the
definitions of these things, Iwould say that the demand
planning and forecasting ofinventory and order flow tends
to sit with our customers, andthey're they're focused on that
all the time.
Um, I think if you extend thatto sort of planning within where
they're sourcing product fromthat's going to flow through
(10:26):
supply chain, you know, I thinkthey they take the lead usually
on that because they're muchbetter at understanding where
their quality suppliers reside.
And then they'll what they'llturn to sort of us as a 3PL to
help them figure out the bestmode to get it there or to do
some scenario planning or whatyou know different optimization
(10:51):
uh planning to see what theimpacts on cost, lead time, or
other factors might be if theychose one supplier over another.
So um that's kind of how we andwe've been seeing a lot of that
going on with our customershere.
So I think it's a com it'sreally all three.
Okay.
Um I think probably less so onthe implementation side, because
I don't think people are makinghuge decisions right now as
(11:13):
things continue to be in flux,right?
So I think it's a lot about theplanning and design right now
and try to scenario plan uharound where you think things
may land.
SPEAKER_01 (11:24):
So when you have a customer, um, let's say they
come, they come to you and theyuh present their you know plan
of action, right?
And then it's up to you to kindof take the ball from there and
figure out uh the rest of it.
Do you ever run into situationswhere what they're proposing um
(11:46):
may not be uh the best in theirin their best interest?
And how how would you handlethat conversation?
SPEAKER_02 (11:54):
Yeah, I mean we we we try very hard to add value
when we're engaged.
I mean, and so if we arepresented with uh with a plan
that we don't think is optimal,we will typically um present a
customer with a plan we think isand identify the uh the
challenges with the plan thatthey're that they're proposing.
(12:16):
Um you know, sometimes thatcomes with some success and
sometimes that comes with uhwith some failures.
I think it's all in how you doit and how you collaborate with
your customer to make sure thatyou're you're presenting
something that um theyunderstand is really you're
looking out for for their bestinterest and not your own.
And we really try very hard todo that.
(12:37):
Um, but yeah, it happens a lot.
Uh a lot of times in the 3PLworld, you're presented with an
RFP that's, you know, for forlack of a better term, fully
baked, you know, that thecustomers made this decision,
this is where they want to go,this is what they want to do and
how they want it to go.
And um, often in thosescenarios, what you do is you
bid you bid two uh two options,right?
(12:58):
You bid the one, you hit theask, right?
You bid the one they're askingfor, and then you show them
something that you think mightbe more optimal.
SPEAKER_01 (13:04):
Okay, okay, makes sense.
So I want to pivot back um to uhcontracts and uh negotiating and
drafting the documentationthrough the use of AI.
And I know we talked about thathere on the show before, but I'm
wondering, are you comfortablewith AI's contribution in that
legal process?
(13:25):
And where do you think it's bestapplicable, when?
Um, and are there instanceswhere you found that that AI
integration may cause issues?
Um, maybe, for example, throughcontextual incongruence that it
may create.
SPEAKER_02 (13:44):
So yes to all of that.
I guess I am I am comfortablewith using it.
I think you have to, but I don'tthink you can shy away from
things like this.
I'll tell you it's not notparticularly relevant for this
discussion, but I am worriedabout what the legal profession
looks like down the road herewith AI coming in, because I
think AI eliminates and has thepotential to eliminate a lot of
(14:07):
the early sort of work thatlawyers have done over time.
And you know, when I startedpracticing law, and I won't go
into how long ago that was, butthere weren't computers and you
did research in books, and um,you know, AI is going to take
away a lot of that early work,and I wonder how you become a
seasoned lawyer that couldprovide good advice to a client
if you didn't go through uh theeffort of kind of learning these
(14:31):
early things.
But you know, right now I thinkfor companies and what we're
doing with it, AI is really away to use these models to deal
with large unstructured datasets and figure out how you um
do first passes of a variety oftasks that ultimately don't add
a ton of value.
And so in my mind, and whatwe're doing in first review,
(14:52):
first contract review, firstmarkup review, um, maybe even
second term, you can use AI forthat on standard form agreements
that we, you know, that we usein our business.
And I think you know, as long asa lawyer is looking at it uh as
it gets towards the end, you youreduce or eliminate the risk
(15:12):
that you're gonna have someerror that comes through.
Definitely, it's certainly not aperfect uh technology.
It makes makes mistakes, it haswhat you know is called, I
guess, hallucinations.
And we see that a lot with theseum when we use AI.
And if you're not, you know, ifyou're not careful, you you can
kind of go off in the wrongdirection.
(15:33):
And um, but you know, we'rewe're using it now in existing
contract databases um to pullout relevant information out of
our contracts and uh be able togive us better intelligence as
to you know how we have or whatwe have across different
segments of customers.
We can pull information aroundwhat KPIs we may have in
(15:54):
different areas of the businessthat might be applicable to
other areas.
Yeah, it's it's a great, it's agreat way to search through um
things that you have uh incontracts to find things that
might be applicable somewhereelse.
So we use it a lot on thecontracting side.
Um and we're using it, you know,frankly, we're using it a lot in
(16:14):
in the operations that we'reserving our customers in,
whether it be in optimizationtools around transportation
modes or um slotting.
We're using it a lot inwarehouses to optimize the the
slotting on a real-time basisand make sure that you're you
know continuing about toevaluate where product should
sit in a warehouse and how toquickly ship that product uh
(16:36):
based on inventory turns and andvolume fluctuations.
So there's you know, there's alot of use.
We've got a lot of peopleworking on this right now.
And I think you kind of you haveto.
It's gonna be table stakes, youknow, continuing to be broader,
broader table stakes as timerolls on here.
SPEAKER_01 (16:55):
Well, I appreciate your uh I'll say confidence in
that you've you guys have had alot of experience in utilizing
it already.
SPEAKER_02 (17:04):
So um Yeah, I mean it's it's super interesting too
in the call centers, and mostpeople have probably dealt with
this, but there are peopledeveloping these models now that
are very specific to use casesor business scenarios, whether
that be sort of brokerage as anexample, where you can use a a
chatbot that sounds and actsexactly like a human, and you
(17:27):
really don't even know.
Um, and it's we've we've beentesting that with a variety of
companies that we've investedin, and um we're having we're
having really good success, andit's it just makes things much
faster and it really doesimprove the customer experience.
SPEAKER_01 (17:42):
So yeah, that's what it's all about.
Uh so what about uh writers'adoption of automation?
Um, can you can you give us someexamples, some success stories?
SPEAKER_02 (17:54):
Oh yeah, I mean we so you know it we've pretty much
tested most of the automationsolutions for warehouses that
are out there, and we'vedeployed, we have thousands of
robots deployed in our um in thewarehouses that we're operating
now.
Most of them are goods to persontype warehouses, kind of like a
(18:15):
a large roomba, if you thinkabout it in that way.
But um, and we've had a lot ofsuccess with um with these
ASRSs, which are sort ofautomated storage and retrieval
systems that we've deployed thathelp um slower and medium moving
goods that you can get them toyou know kitted and sorted much
faster.
Uh, we've taken lots of moneyout of our customers' um
(18:39):
operations by deployingautomation.
But you know, I think it's supertrendy now to talk about
automation and to see what'shappening in the warehouses.
There's certainly a lot of pressand a lot of people marketing on
this stuff, but you know, sortof our approach is not to
automate for the sake ofautomating, it has to have an
ROI.
And you know, if you don't havethe volume or the
(19:03):
standardization within yourwithin your network, then
automation's you know unlikelygoing to be successful for you.
Um, you know, if it's a a verydynamic inventory or or goods
flow, for example, where youhave different sizes of product
and it's changing every quarteron those sizes, it's very hard
(19:24):
to deploy automationsuccessfully in that type of
concept.
Similarly, if you have one shiftoperation in a warehouse, you're
really not going to save verymuch by automating.
Right.
You know, if you're runningthree shifts seven days a week,
then automation is gonna providea lot of savings for you.
So I think a lot of it is, youknow, we do a lot of work to
understand what's out there,what works, and in what context.
(19:48):
And then you really have to getdown to detail with the customer
to understand, you know, whatare you what is the problem
you're trying to solve, and doesautomation provide a solution
for it?
Because once you deploy, it'svery expensive to deploy, even
as prices continue to come down.
And once you deploy it, it's notcertainly getting better, but
it's not super flexible.
So you, you know, if you havechanges in your network, you're
(20:10):
sort of stuck with this largecapital investment that you
made.
SPEAKER_01 (20:13):
Oh, good point.
SPEAKER_02 (20:14):
You know, we we have a healthcare client that we've
taken tens of millions ofdollars out of their operation
and improved um service uh tothe patient dramatically from
you know, somewhere in uh sayhigh 80% success rate when
nurses and doctors went to pullproduct from the shelf to now
98, 99% that the product wasthere.
(20:37):
We've we have customers thatwe've taken, you know, teams of
people out of the out of thewarehouse operation and and you
know made the operations moreefficient.
Uh, we continue to look atdifferent ways to do that as you
know, labor rates continue torise.
It's important to make sure youhave solutions to to mitigate
(20:57):
that.
SPEAKER_01 (20:58):
And kind of on the heels of that comment, I'm
wondering too, um, EV, EVadoption.
I you know, you talk to certainpeople across supply management
and they're kind of, I don'twant to say backpedaling, but
maybe putting that on pause.
Um, where do you think logisticscompanies stand on those
(21:21):
investments in general?
And um what do you think are theprimary roadblocks to push it
forward and integrate the EVinto the trucking fleets?
SPEAKER_02 (21:33):
Yeah, I mean we were seeing limited adoption when
there were grants and a big sortof what I would call regulatory
push to move in that direction.
I think you have a lot of largeconsumer product companies that
are very interesting interestedin doing it for whether that for
marketing reasons, for moralreasons, for whatever.
(21:56):
So, and you still see that.
I mean, if a company's supercommitted.
To their sustainability goalsand their driving those forward,
and particularly if it's a largeglobal corporation, they still
have a desire.
I think there's been a there hasbeen a hesitancy all along
because of the cost andcomplexity of operating electric
vehicles, especially commercialelectric vehicles.
(22:19):
I mean, charging is verydifficult and expensive and not
prevalent.
Um, the batteries are veryexpensive.
And, you know, depending on, youknow, on the analysis, I mean,
we have a white paper, writerhas a white paper out there that
kind of looked at this and youknow, um, it's for heavy-duty
vehicles to carry the same goodsthe same distance, it takes two
(22:41):
trucks and two drivers to do thesame thing because of the
limited range that electrictrucks have and the uh the
amount of time it takes tocharge those vehicles.
I think now what's happened withgrants falling away, um, you
haven't you've you've seenbattery um production well
outstrip battery demand.
So you're not seeing price comedown quickly enough, and the
(23:03):
infrastructure still remains thechallenge.
So to me, I think that's thebiggest hang up.
I think even as prices continueto fall, you're gonna still have
this infrastructure barrier thatum is gonna make it hard to get
uh adoption.
And I think you know, it's stillto be seen whether at the heavy
(23:24):
side you're gonna get enoughbattery power to make that an
appropriate um technology fromall haul.
SPEAKER_01 (23:32):
Not to mention the impact that uh climate swings
have on battery power, you know,in the in the cold, you know,
heavy.
SPEAKER_02 (23:42):
Batteries degrade and heat and cold.
Um, you know, and and look,there's been a lot of studies
that show that if you're notcharging your batteries using
green powder, um I'm not sureyou're getting the environmental
impact that people think you'regetting from electric vehicles.
Now, having said all that, theelectric vehicles that have been
released from a drivingexperience, they're quite good.
(24:03):
I mean, they're they'resignificantly better to drive
than a than a diesel truck.
And people have probablyexperienced that in their own
cars.
I mean these things are prettyfast, they handle really well.
You probably need significantlylower maintenance costs.
So there are advantages.
Um, I think it's just got to besomething that the market adopts
when the market's ready to toadopt it.
(24:23):
And that's gonna really bedriven on the price coming down
and the infrastructure beingready to handle it.
I mean, the power demands for acommercial truck fleet, a power
of class eight, like a you know,over-the-road truck and tractor,
yeah, uh tractor um trailercombination for you know 50
tractors is like a small cityamount of 40.
(24:44):
So it's not it's not a it's notan easy challenge to solve.
SPEAKER_01 (24:49):
And what about, you know, with all I'll say the uh I
don't want to say increasingrisks out there, but with all
the changes that have gone onacross the profession, affecting
the profession, I should say, inthe last year.
Have you had to shift yourperspective or where you focus
(25:10):
um on tackling risk managementin any way?
Has anything changed for you?
SPEAKER_02 (25:16):
Um You know, I I think if I if I keep it to sort
of the areas of let's sayprocurement and kind of what
we're doing for our customers, Iwould say that um it's just
reinforced the need to havestrong collaborative
collaboration and strongrelationships with your
customers and suppliers.
(25:37):
I mean, I I don't know that muchhas changed for us.
Um you know, you have differentdynamics within that, but if you
have, if you collaborate wellwith your suppliers and you you
have good relationships, thenyou you work together to solve
these things and to mitigatethese risks.
And I feel like it's theconnectivity and the strength of
(25:57):
those relationships that managerisk better than sort of having
some checklist that you'rerunning down or shifting all the
time to try to figure out whatthe next thing is gonna that
that may break would be.
I mean, you have to have thethings that are your most
vulnerable and make sure you'relooking out for them.
But where we've been successfulis having these strong
(26:17):
relationships so that we we havegood and good communication.
So you see things starting tohappen and maybe get a little
bit ahead of them before theyfully materialize.
And that's been the thing thathas made us, I would say, the
most successful across them.
SPEAKER_01 (26:33):
So uh curious to know if we were to do a quick
flash forward.
How do you envision NorthAmerican supply chains are gonna
operate um in 2035?
So, you know, nine, ten yearsfrom now.
What do you think may remain thesame and what do you think could
(26:53):
be different?
SPEAKER_02 (26:56):
I think you know, I think there's gonna be this
increasing um need to have astrong strategic relationship
with your supply base and yoursupply chain providers.
Uh I think if you if you live ina tactical world, as things
continue to get more and morecomplex, you're gonna struggle.
(27:18):
Um, so I think that's probablythe most important thing for
businesses.
And then I think you are gonnacontinue to see automation um in
a variety of forms.
I think you'll start to seehumanoids really come into play.
Humanoids are are out now, we'vetested them.
They're you know, they're notquite ready now.
(27:39):
It's a it's a complex thing tothe the number of activation
points to sort of pick somethingup and have a robot pick it up
and put it down where you wantit to isn't that easy.
Um, but but it's you know it'sstarting to come.
So I think you're gonna seethat, uh, which is gonna require
you to shift around the way workis done.
Um and you know, it's gonna andit's gonna change the model for
(28:03):
a lot of um of 3PLs as youcontinue to have to work with
your customers, a lot of supplychains, really, because you're
gonna be deploying more capitalas you deploy more automation.
So you're shifting um capitalspend in in businesses from you
know, maybe areas that theyhadn't previously spent that
capital.
So I think businesses are gonnahave to think that through as as
(28:25):
time marches on here.
Um and I think you know, in theUS, we still we've got to solve
this um immigration challengethat we have.
I mean, there, you know,warehouse workers, technicians,
people that fix things.
If you're talking aboutautomation, you're talking about
mechanical things that need tobe fixed from that time to time.
And we really just don't have awhole lot of people doing those
(28:47):
jobs.
We don't have a lot of drivers,we don't have a lot of
engineers.
So I think that's anotherchallenge that uh that's gonna
have to be tackled here as wemarch on towards 2035.
Yeah, I'm still working.
I'm uh um I'm worried aboutthat, that in addition to these
other things.
SPEAKER_01 (29:05):
So yeah, I I know it's a common topic of
conversation, what we're lookingat as far as um having having
enough workers, having the rightworkers, uh, the right training,
and um and you know, findingpeople that are interested, you
know, young talent wanting topursue that.
SPEAKER_02 (29:25):
Right.
And it's and you know, as Imentioned earlier, and when we
were talking about AI and thelegal profession, I think you
know, you have thesetechnologies that are gonna be
replacing a lot of entry-leveltype jobs, certainly
white-collar entry, entry-leveljobs in white-collar um
professions.
And you know, folks are gonnahave to figure out how, you
(29:46):
know, what work they will do.
And it's um it's it's achallenge that we all have to
face.
And I think it's uh it's it'scertainly doable.
I mean, there's there's lots ofways to um to add value that
that that machines can't do andaren't going to be doing for
quite a long time.
I think we just have to makesure we're looking for those
opportunities within ourbusinesses to keep people
(30:09):
engaged.
So I mean, I I constantly say tomy team, look, figure out a way
to automate something.
I'll anybody who can figure outfigure out a way how to automate
their job so that they're nolonger needed, I will find them
a job.
SPEAKER_01 (30:20):
Oh, that's reassuring that's reassuring.
SPEAKER_02 (30:23):
Well, the best the best way to show your value is
to figure out how your currentrole isn't valuable.
Though that that means you'rethinking about how to improve
the organization, how to makethings more efficient.
There's plenty of room forpeople like that.
So uh I love when people kind ofcome up with those kinds of
ideas because then that thatmeans they're dynamic, they're
flexible, they'reforward-thinking, those are
(30:44):
people you want to keep.
SPEAKER_01 (30:46):
Sandy, this has been a pleasure today.
Uh, really appreciate yourinsights.
And for any of our listenersthat would enjoy continuing this
type of conversation with you,how would you prefer they
connect?
SPEAKER_02 (31:00):
Oh, yeah, they can always reach me on email, which
is be my first initial.
So s and last name is Fodes,H-O-D-E-S at Ryder.com.
Or um, I think I'm on LinkedIn.
I'm not great with social media,but uh I'll any any way you can
find me, I'm uh I'm happy tohave a conversation with anybody
and talk about what Ryder doesor or figure out how you can
(31:22):
help us.
SPEAKER_01 (31:23):
So great, really, really appreciate your time.
Thanks so much for being here,Sandy.
Uh, and to continue to staytuned to what's happening across
supply management and to make aplan for 2026 and increase your
community engagement.
We urge you to check out ISMWorld's 2026 annual conference.
(31:46):
Uh you can find more info.
It's uh in April, April 2026 inDenver.
Yep, the details at ismworld.orgforward slash events.
As always, thanks for tuning in.
Really appreciate you andlooking forward to doing it
again real soon.
I'm Melanie Stern for ISM.
For real stories on how global business gets done.
This is Supply Chain Unfiltered,presented by the Institute for
Supply Management.
SPEAKER_01 (00:17):
So good to have you here.
I'm Melanie Stern for ISM andanother episode.
Yep, supply chain unfiltered.
Excited about today's topic.
Lots of, I'll say flex going onin logistics, specifically 3PL
companies.
Anyone affiliated with one ofthose can attest to that.
Lots of maybe some commotion,some uncertainty, but definitely
(00:42):
a lot of strategic shifts goingon.
And we're going to focus on whatreferred to it as like the gray
area that happens with 3PLs,working with their customers,
suppliers, what happens amidvolatility, and you know, touch
(01:03):
on some areas when we areworking on contracts.
And you know, where do we wantto work off of absolutes, you
know, black and whites versusthe gray areas, the areas that
probably better off we keep asfluid to kind of you know follow
along and align better with thechanges uh across the market as
(01:26):
a whole.
To help us kind of dive intothis, I'm really happy to uh
introduce Sandy Hodes, he'sSenior Vice President Chief
Procurement and CorporateDevelopment Officer for Rider
System, Inc.
Hi, Sandy.
Good to have you here.
SPEAKER_02 (01:41):
Thanks.
Nice to be here.
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (01:44):
So I was kind of going through um your background
and all the things that youhandle over at uh Rider Systems.
You are um, let's see here, youyou kind of lead three different
business units, uh fleetmanagement solutions, dedicated
transportation solutions, supplychain solutions.
(02:08):
You're the solutions guy.
SPEAKER_02 (02:10):
So that's I don't lead those businesses, but I I
lead procurement and I lead tothe Okay, thank you, thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (02:17):
But uh nonetheless, it still sounds like a lot on
your shoulder.
So um really anxious to learn,learn from you today.
So, what do you think uh 3PLcompanies do you think that, you
know, generally speaking, um,are they ready for the shift
towards supply chainregionalization here in North
America?
SPEAKER_02 (02:38):
Um so I mean overall, but I can I can speak
to sort of where Ryder sits inthis.
And we've kind of been on thisregionalization uh plan since
probably 2008-9 when we shiftedfrom you know our customers
wanting us to be a global 3PL torealizing that really these
(02:59):
decisions were made regionallyand we would be better focusing
our business in North America.
So since that time, we've been aport-to-do player in North
America, sort of serving youknow anything that a customer
needs from you know inventorystuck in a port, missed delivery
windows, you know, anything inthe transportation realm,
(03:20):
essentially from port towherever their customer's door
is.
And as you know, we've movedthrough from the you know the
10s into the 20s, you've seenthis big push, certainly in and
post-COVID, on near-shoring andonshoring, away from uh some of
the risks of having dispersedsupply chains or long lead times
(03:41):
for product coming overseas.
I think that you know, at leastRyder was, and I think other of
our competitors have been kindof working on that with our
customers.
I think what's sort ofinteresting about where we're
sitting now is that thesedecisions are multi-year
decisions that companies make,whether they're locating a plant
or changing their supply chain.
And um, with the sort of maybeearly disruption and now a
(04:07):
little bit of uncertainty aroundtariffs, you've seen a lot of
these decisions that companieshave announced around near
shoring be pushed off a littlebit as they try to figure out
what these tariffs mean.
Um, so you know, I think workingwith the 3PL is you know
certainly helpful in thesethings, but ultimately companies
(04:27):
have to understand what theirsupply chain looks like and how
these cost factors and andgeopolitical and and regulatory
factors play.
SPEAKER_01 (04:35):
And and you mentioned that uh you had come
at this or or looked at this asa viable shift in 2008-2009.
Um uh were there can you recallmaybe were there specific
indicators that led Ryder to airthat way?
(04:56):
Or um I mean what yeah, whatwhat was involved to making that
shift?
SPEAKER_02 (05:03):
Um, you know, so we were we were in we were in the
European continent uh in a bigway, we were in South America,
we were in Asia, and I thinkwhere what we started to see
were uh was that there were fewsynergies for a supply chain
player across those markets.
Back in those days, you know,you're still at the visibility
nascency, I think I would say,right?
(05:24):
You didn't really have thesetechnologies now that allow you
to see things from um frommanufacturing site to end
delivery like you do now.
Uh and also, as I mentionedbefore, you know, we we really
felt like although our customersspoke about having a global 3PL,
in practice they really didn'tseem to want one.
(05:45):
And they mainly were looking,we're making these decisions
regionally and looking at yourcapabilities regionally.
So uh we just felt like for ourbusiness anyway, there were a
lot, you know, there's a lot ofgreat synergies that we have
across our three business unitsuh serving our customers here in
the US and in North America, andwe felt like we could add more
value to our customers if wefocused heavily on North
(06:07):
America, bring solutions toNorth America, as I mentioned,
sort of with this sort ofport-to-door philosophy as we
cover um the supply chains thatare running in America.
SPEAKER_01 (06:18):
And you you've got uh, I'll say, an extensive
background in law.
So I'm wondering from uh yourperspective and related to
suppliers, do you think there'sbeen a significant impact in how
they handle that gray area oflaw, that you know, more the
(06:38):
areas that you can massage oryou know, change or align with
you know all the changes thatare going on and and that we're
all trying to navigate in um youknow amid volatility and you
know we got changes in tariffsand you know how do you how has
that affected our suppliers, youthink?
SPEAKER_02 (06:59):
Well, I mean, I think they're certainly working
more with their legal andgovernment relations folks than
they ever have before, I wouldbet.
Um you know, these these arethese are very complicated
regulations, they're verycomplicated when they get
implemented.
Um, you know, you've seen evenjust with the tariffs on
aluminum and steel, the youknow, the devil's in the details
on what actual what actualproduct is subject to the tariff
(07:24):
based on a variety of codes.
So there's a lot of stuff there.
But I I feel like in the 3PLworld, um and with and and in
basically supplier world, thelawyers have played a strong
role in in this over over a longperiod of time.
I mean it's important tounderstand where the risks fall
with um in a customerrelationship, in a supply uh
(07:48):
purchase relationship, and andhow those risks are allocated.
So I feel like um, you know,you're gonna have ebbs and flows
on what might shift thedifferent focus within that
broad gray area of how lawworks, but um, at least my
experience here at Ryder andprior to Ryder when I when I was
practicing law, I I felt likeyou did well by your by your
(08:12):
clients to make sure they wereunderstanding fully what the
risks and obligations of theparties were.
SPEAKER_01 (08:17):
Have you ever run into a situation where a uh
customer or a potential customercomes at negotiations where they
think that they don't needcounsel to help them?
Where they it's almost like aDIY legal.
SPEAKER_02 (08:35):
Yeah, you know, writers business is interesting
in that we have, I think we havesomewhere in the neighborhood of
45,000 customers or so.
And that's because of the naturereally of the diversity of the
businesses that and the servicesthat we offer.
So we have a lot of smallcustomers that don't like using
lawyers, don't want to uselawyers.
(08:57):
We don't see that very often, ifat all, on the supply chain side
of our business, but on thelease and rental side of our
business, we see it quitefrequently.
Um, it's actually a challengefor lawyers when you're when
you're dealing with um, youknow, when you're an in-house
lawyer dealing with a customerthat doesn't want to bring a
lawyer in because you you sortof, I mean, there's some ethical
(09:18):
rules at play on what lawyerscan and can't negotiate and how
they disclose that when they'redealing with non-lawyers.
And you also want to make sureyou're giving the customer a
good experience and you're nottrying to confuse them or pull
the wool over anybody's eyes.
So, frankly, you know, we wetend to prefer when our
customers engage lawyers so thatwe can have conversations in
(09:39):
that regard.
And when they don't, we have tosort of make sure we're being as
clear and open as we can uh onthese things.
So yeah, it runs the gamut.
SPEAKER_01 (09:49):
And with with your customers, what are you finding
that they've been concentratingon most uh you know within the
last six months, last year?
Is it planning, uh design, orimplementation?
SPEAKER_02 (10:05):
Yeah, I mean that depending on the on the
definitions of these things, Iwould say that the demand
planning and forecasting ofinventory and order flow tends
to sit with our customers, andthey're they're focused on that
all the time.
Um, I think if you extend thatto sort of planning within where
they're sourcing product fromthat's going to flow through
(10:26):
supply chain, you know, I thinkthey they take the lead usually
on that because they're muchbetter at understanding where
their quality suppliers reside.
And then they'll what they'llturn to sort of us as a 3PL to
help them figure out the bestmode to get it there or to do
some scenario planning or whatyou know different optimization
(10:51):
uh planning to see what theimpacts on cost, lead time, or
other factors might be if theychose one supplier over another.
So um that's kind of how we andwe've been seeing a lot of that
going on with our customershere.
So I think it's a com it'sreally all three.
Okay.
Um I think probably less so onthe implementation side, because
I don't think people are makinghuge decisions right now as
(11:13):
things continue to be in flux,right?
So I think it's a lot about theplanning and design right now
and try to scenario plan uharound where you think things
may land.
SPEAKER_01 (11:24):
So when you have a customer, um, let's say they
come, they come to you and theyuh present their you know plan
of action, right?
And then it's up to you to kindof take the ball from there and
figure out uh the rest of it.
Do you ever run into situationswhere what they're proposing um
(11:46):
may not be uh the best in theirin their best interest?
And how how would you handlethat conversation?
SPEAKER_02 (11:54):
Yeah, I mean we we we try very hard to add value
when we're engaged.
I mean, and so if we arepresented with uh with a plan
that we don't think is optimal,we will typically um present a
customer with a plan we think isand identify the uh the
challenges with the plan thatthey're that they're proposing.
(12:16):
Um you know, sometimes thatcomes with some success and
sometimes that comes with uhwith some failures.
I think it's all in how you doit and how you collaborate with
your customer to make sure thatyou're you're presenting
something that um theyunderstand is really you're
looking out for for their bestinterest and not your own.
And we really try very hard todo that.
(12:37):
Um, but yeah, it happens a lot.
Uh a lot of times in the 3PLworld, you're presented with an
RFP that's, you know, for forlack of a better term, fully
baked, you know, that thecustomers made this decision,
this is where they want to go,this is what they want to do and
how they want it to go.
And um, often in thosescenarios, what you do is you
bid you bid two uh two options,right?
(12:58):
You bid the one, you hit theask, right?
You bid the one they're askingfor, and then you show them
something that you think mightbe more optimal.
SPEAKER_01 (13:04):
Okay, okay, makes sense.
So I want to pivot back um to uhcontracts and uh negotiating and
drafting the documentationthrough the use of AI.
And I know we talked about thathere on the show before, but I'm
wondering, are you comfortablewith AI's contribution in that
legal process?
(13:25):
And where do you think it's bestapplicable, when?
Um, and are there instanceswhere you found that that AI
integration may cause issues?
Um, maybe, for example, throughcontextual incongruence that it
may create.
SPEAKER_02 (13:44):
So yes to all of that.
I guess I am I am comfortablewith using it.
I think you have to, but I don'tthink you can shy away from
things like this.
I'll tell you it's not notparticularly relevant for this
discussion, but I am worriedabout what the legal profession
looks like down the road herewith AI coming in, because I
think AI eliminates and has thepotential to eliminate a lot of
(14:07):
the early sort of work thatlawyers have done over time.
And you know, when I startedpracticing law, and I won't go
into how long ago that was, butthere weren't computers and you
did research in books, and um,you know, AI is going to take
away a lot of that early work,and I wonder how you become a
seasoned lawyer that couldprovide good advice to a client
if you didn't go through uh theeffort of kind of learning these
(14:31):
early things.
But you know, right now I thinkfor companies and what we're
doing with it, AI is really away to use these models to deal
with large unstructured datasets and figure out how you um
do first passes of a variety oftasks that ultimately don't add
a ton of value.
And so in my mind, and whatwe're doing in first review,
(14:52):
first contract review, firstmarkup review, um, maybe even
second term, you can use AI forthat on standard form agreements
that we, you know, that we usein our business.
And I think you know, as long asa lawyer is looking at it uh as
it gets towards the end, you youreduce or eliminate the risk
(15:12):
that you're gonna have someerror that comes through.
Definitely, it's certainly not aperfect uh technology.
It makes makes mistakes, it haswhat you know is called, I
guess, hallucinations.
And we see that a lot with theseum when we use AI.
And if you're not, you know, ifyou're not careful, you you can
kind of go off in the wrongdirection.
(15:33):
And um, but you know, we'rewe're using it now in existing
contract databases um to pullout relevant information out of
our contracts and uh be able togive us better intelligence as
to you know how we have or whatwe have across different
segments of customers.
We can pull information aroundwhat KPIs we may have in
(15:54):
different areas of the businessthat might be applicable to
other areas.
Yeah, it's it's a great, it's agreat way to search through um
things that you have uh incontracts to find things that
might be applicable somewhereelse.
So we use it a lot on thecontracting side.
Um and we're using it, you know,frankly, we're using it a lot in
(16:14):
in the operations that we'reserving our customers in,
whether it be in optimizationtools around transportation
modes or um slotting.
We're using it a lot inwarehouses to optimize the the
slotting on a real-time basisand make sure that you're you
know continuing about toevaluate where product should
sit in a warehouse and how toquickly ship that product uh
(16:36):
based on inventory turns and andvolume fluctuations.
So there's you know, there's alot of use.
We've got a lot of peopleworking on this right now.
And I think you kind of you haveto.
It's gonna be table stakes, youknow, continuing to be broader,
broader table stakes as timerolls on here.
SPEAKER_01 (16:55):
Well, I appreciate your uh I'll say confidence in
that you've you guys have had alot of experience in utilizing
it already.
SPEAKER_02 (17:04):
So um Yeah, I mean it's it's super interesting too
in the call centers, and mostpeople have probably dealt with
this, but there are peopledeveloping these models now that
are very specific to use casesor business scenarios, whether
that be sort of brokerage as anexample, where you can use a a
chatbot that sounds and actsexactly like a human, and you
(17:27):
really don't even know.
Um, and it's we've we've beentesting that with a variety of
companies that we've investedin, and um we're having we're
having really good success, andit's it just makes things much
faster and it really doesimprove the customer experience.
SPEAKER_01 (17:42):
So yeah, that's what it's all about.
Uh so what about uh writers'adoption of automation?
Um, can you can you give us someexamples, some success stories?
SPEAKER_02 (17:54):
Oh yeah, I mean we so you know it we've pretty much
tested most of the automationsolutions for warehouses that
are out there, and we'vedeployed, we have thousands of
robots deployed in our um in thewarehouses that we're operating
now.
Most of them are goods to persontype warehouses, kind of like a
(18:15):
a large roomba, if you thinkabout it in that way.
But um, and we've had a lot ofsuccess with um with these
ASRSs, which are sort ofautomated storage and retrieval
systems that we've deployed thathelp um slower and medium moving
goods that you can get them toyou know kitted and sorted much
faster.
Uh, we've taken lots of moneyout of our customers' um
(18:39):
operations by deployingautomation.
But you know, I think it's supertrendy now to talk about
automation and to see what'shappening in the warehouses.
There's certainly a lot of pressand a lot of people marketing on
this stuff, but you know, sortof our approach is not to
automate for the sake ofautomating, it has to have an
ROI.
And you know, if you don't havethe volume or the
(19:03):
standardization within yourwithin your network, then
automation's you know unlikelygoing to be successful for you.
Um, you know, if it's a a verydynamic inventory or or goods
flow, for example, where youhave different sizes of product
and it's changing every quarteron those sizes, it's very hard
(19:24):
to deploy automationsuccessfully in that type of
concept.
Similarly, if you have one shiftoperation in a warehouse, you're
really not going to save verymuch by automating.
Right.
You know, if you're runningthree shifts seven days a week,
then automation is gonna providea lot of savings for you.
So I think a lot of it is, youknow, we do a lot of work to
understand what's out there,what works, and in what context.
(19:48):
And then you really have to getdown to detail with the customer
to understand, you know, whatare you what is the problem
you're trying to solve, and doesautomation provide a solution
for it?
Because once you deploy, it'svery expensive to deploy, even
as prices continue to come down.
And once you deploy it, it's notcertainly getting better, but
it's not super flexible.
So you, you know, if you havechanges in your network, you're
(20:10):
sort of stuck with this largecapital investment that you
made.
SPEAKER_01 (20:13):
Oh, good point.
SPEAKER_02 (20:14):
You know, we we have a healthcare client that we've
taken tens of millions ofdollars out of their operation
and improved um service uh tothe patient dramatically from
you know, somewhere in uh sayhigh 80% success rate when
nurses and doctors went to pullproduct from the shelf to now
98, 99% that the product wasthere.
(20:37):
We've we have customers thatwe've taken, you know, teams of
people out of the out of thewarehouse operation and and you
know made the operations moreefficient.
Uh, we continue to look atdifferent ways to do that as you
know, labor rates continue torise.
It's important to make sure youhave solutions to to mitigate
(20:57):
that.
SPEAKER_01 (20:58):
And kind of on the heels of that comment, I'm
wondering too, um, EV, EVadoption.
I you know, you talk to certainpeople across supply management
and they're kind of, I don'twant to say backpedaling, but
maybe putting that on pause.
Um, where do you think logisticscompanies stand on those
(21:21):
investments in general?
And um what do you think are theprimary roadblocks to push it
forward and integrate the EVinto the trucking fleets?
SPEAKER_02 (21:33):
Yeah, I mean we were seeing limited adoption when
there were grants and a big sortof what I would call regulatory
push to move in that direction.
I think you have a lot of largeconsumer product companies that
are very interesting interestedin doing it for whether that for
marketing reasons, for moralreasons, for whatever.
(21:56):
So, and you still see that.
I mean, if a company's supercommitted.
To their sustainability goalsand their driving those forward,
and particularly if it's a largeglobal corporation, they still
have a desire.
I think there's been a there hasbeen a hesitancy all along
because of the cost andcomplexity of operating electric
vehicles, especially commercialelectric vehicles.
(22:19):
I mean, charging is verydifficult and expensive and not
prevalent.
Um, the batteries are veryexpensive.
And, you know, depending on, youknow, on the analysis, I mean,
we have a white paper, writerhas a white paper out there that
kind of looked at this and youknow, um, it's for heavy-duty
vehicles to carry the same goodsthe same distance, it takes two
(22:41):
trucks and two drivers to do thesame thing because of the
limited range that electrictrucks have and the uh the
amount of time it takes tocharge those vehicles.
I think now what's happened withgrants falling away, um, you
haven't you've you've seenbattery um production well
outstrip battery demand.
So you're not seeing price comedown quickly enough, and the
(23:03):
infrastructure still remains thechallenge.
So to me, I think that's thebiggest hang up.
I think even as prices continueto fall, you're gonna still have
this infrastructure barrier thatum is gonna make it hard to get
uh adoption.
And I think you know, it's stillto be seen whether at the heavy
(23:24):
side you're gonna get enoughbattery power to make that an
appropriate um technology fromall haul.
SPEAKER_01 (23:32):
Not to mention the impact that uh climate swings
have on battery power, you know,in the in the cold, you know,
heavy.
SPEAKER_02 (23:42):
Batteries degrade and heat and cold.
Um, you know, and and look,there's been a lot of studies
that show that if you're notcharging your batteries using
green powder, um I'm not sureyou're getting the environmental
impact that people think you'regetting from electric vehicles.
Now, having said all that, theelectric vehicles that have been
released from a drivingexperience, they're quite good.
(24:03):
I mean, they're they'resignificantly better to drive
than a than a diesel truck.
And people have probablyexperienced that in their own
cars.
I mean these things are prettyfast, they handle really well.
You probably need significantlylower maintenance costs.
So there are advantages.
Um, I think it's just got to besomething that the market adopts
when the market's ready to toadopt it.
(24:23):
And that's gonna really bedriven on the price coming down
and the infrastructure beingready to handle it.
I mean, the power demands for acommercial truck fleet, a power
of class eight, like a you know,over-the-road truck and tractor,
yeah, uh tractor um trailercombination for you know 50
tractors is like a small cityamount of 40.
(24:44):
So it's not it's not a it's notan easy challenge to solve.
SPEAKER_01 (24:49):
And what about, you know, with all I'll say the uh I
don't want to say increasingrisks out there, but with all
the changes that have gone onacross the profession, affecting
the profession, I should say, inthe last year.
Have you had to shift yourperspective or where you focus
(25:10):
um on tackling risk managementin any way?
Has anything changed for you?
SPEAKER_02 (25:16):
Um You know, I I think if I if I keep it to sort
of the areas of let's sayprocurement and kind of what
we're doing for our customers, Iwould say that um it's just
reinforced the need to havestrong collaborative
collaboration and strongrelationships with your
customers and suppliers.
(25:37):
I mean, I I don't know that muchhas changed for us.
Um you know, you have differentdynamics within that, but if you
have, if you collaborate wellwith your suppliers and you you
have good relationships, thenyou you work together to solve
these things and to mitigatethese risks.
And I feel like it's theconnectivity and the strength of
(25:57):
those relationships that managerisk better than sort of having
some checklist that you'rerunning down or shifting all the
time to try to figure out whatthe next thing is gonna that
that may break would be.
I mean, you have to have thethings that are your most
vulnerable and make sure you'relooking out for them.
But where we've been successfulis having these strong
(26:17):
relationships so that we we havegood and good communication.
So you see things starting tohappen and maybe get a little
bit ahead of them before theyfully materialize.
And that's been the thing thathas made us, I would say, the
most successful across them.
SPEAKER_01 (26:33):
So uh curious to know if we were to do a quick
flash forward.
How do you envision NorthAmerican supply chains are gonna
operate um in 2035?
So, you know, nine, ten yearsfrom now.
What do you think may remain thesame and what do you think could
(26:53):
be different?
SPEAKER_02 (26:56):
I think you know, I think there's gonna be this
increasing um need to have astrong strategic relationship
with your supply base and yoursupply chain providers.
Uh I think if you if you live ina tactical world, as things
continue to get more and morecomplex, you're gonna struggle.
(27:18):
Um, so I think that's probablythe most important thing for
businesses.
And then I think you are gonnacontinue to see automation um in
a variety of forms.
I think you'll start to seehumanoids really come into play.
Humanoids are are out now, we'vetested them.
They're you know, they're notquite ready now.
(27:39):
It's a it's a complex thing tothe the number of activation
points to sort of pick somethingup and have a robot pick it up
and put it down where you wantit to isn't that easy.
Um, but but it's you know it'sstarting to come.
So I think you're gonna seethat, uh, which is gonna require
you to shift around the way workis done.
Um and you know, it's gonna andit's gonna change the model for
(28:03):
a lot of um of 3PLs as youcontinue to have to work with
your customers, a lot of supplychains, really, because you're
gonna be deploying more capitalas you deploy more automation.
So you're shifting um capitalspend in in businesses from you
know, maybe areas that theyhadn't previously spent that
capital.
So I think businesses are gonnahave to think that through as as
(28:25):
time marches on here.
Um and I think you know, in theUS, we still we've got to solve
this um immigration challengethat we have.
I mean, there, you know,warehouse workers, technicians,
people that fix things.
If you're talking aboutautomation, you're talking about
mechanical things that need tobe fixed from that time to time.
And we really just don't have awhole lot of people doing those
(28:47):
jobs.
We don't have a lot of drivers,we don't have a lot of
engineers.
So I think that's anotherchallenge that uh that's gonna
have to be tackled here as wemarch on towards 2035.
Yeah, I'm still working.
I'm uh um I'm worried aboutthat, that in addition to these
other things.
SPEAKER_01 (29:05):
So yeah, I I know it's a common topic of
conversation, what we're lookingat as far as um having having
enough workers, having the rightworkers, uh, the right training,
and um and you know, findingpeople that are interested, you
know, young talent wanting topursue that.
SPEAKER_02 (29:25):
Right.
And it's and you know, as Imentioned earlier, and when we
were talking about AI and thelegal profession, I think you
know, you have thesetechnologies that are gonna be
replacing a lot of entry-leveltype jobs, certainly
white-collar entry, entry-leveljobs in white-collar um
professions.
And you know, folks are gonnahave to figure out how, you
(29:46):
know, what work they will do.
And it's um it's it's achallenge that we all have to
face.
And I think it's uh it's it'scertainly doable.
I mean, there's there's lots ofways to um to add value that
that that machines can't do andaren't going to be doing for
quite a long time.
I think we just have to makesure we're looking for those
opportunities within ourbusinesses to keep people
(30:09):
engaged.
So I mean, I I constantly say tomy team, look, figure out a way
to automate something.
I'll anybody who can figure outfigure out a way how to automate
their job so that they're nolonger needed, I will find them
a job.
SPEAKER_01 (30:20):
Oh, that's reassuring that's reassuring.
SPEAKER_02 (30:23):
Well, the best the best way to show your value is
to figure out how your currentrole isn't valuable.
Though that that means you'rethinking about how to improve
the organization, how to makethings more efficient.
There's plenty of room forpeople like that.
So uh I love when people kind ofcome up with those kinds of
ideas because then that thatmeans they're dynamic, they're
flexible, they'reforward-thinking, those are
(30:44):
people you want to keep.
SPEAKER_01 (30:46):
Sandy, this has been a pleasure today.
Uh, really appreciate yourinsights.
And for any of our listenersthat would enjoy continuing this
type of conversation with you,how would you prefer they
connect?
SPEAKER_02 (31:00):
Oh, yeah, they can always reach me on email, which
is be my first initial.
So s and last name is Fodes,H-O-D-E-S at Ryder.com.
Or um, I think I'm on LinkedIn.
I'm not great with social media,but uh I'll any any way you can
find me, I'm uh I'm happy tohave a conversation with anybody
and talk about what Ryder doesor or figure out how you can
(31:22):
help us.
SPEAKER_01 (31:23):
So great, really, really appreciate your time.
Thanks so much for being here,Sandy.
Uh, and to continue to staytuned to what's happening across
supply management and to make aplan for 2026 and increase your
community engagement.
We urge you to check out ISMWorld's 2026 annual conference.
(31:46):
Uh you can find more info.
It's uh in April, April 2026 inDenver.
Yep, the details at ismworld.orgforward slash events.
As always, thanks for tuning in.
Really appreciate you andlooking forward to doing it
again real soon.
I'm Melanie Stern for ISM.
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