July 8, 2026 • 27 mins
Change is easy to describe and brutally hard to deliver, especially in supply chain and procurement where every shift touches customers, suppliers, systems, and frontline teams. We sit down with Manish Kapoor, founder and CEO of Growth Catalyst Group, to get honest about what separates a thought leader from a true change agent and why execution is the part that tests your leadership the most.
We dig into the mechanics of change management that actually work: defining a clear North Star, making the benefits real for the people doing the work, building a roadmap that anticipates friction, and celebrating small wins so momentum does not die halfway through. We also talk about risk management in supply chain transformation, including how to weigh risk versus value, when to pause, and why pilots are often the safest way to prove your assumptions before scaling across sites.
Manish shares stories from building an early centralized command and control model for last mile operations, along with a hard-earned lesson from a Lean Six Sigma rollout that failed because the change was pushed instead of owned. From there, we zoom out to the current reality facing e-commerce teams dealing with tariffs and uncertainty, including a practical operational framework focused on labor, logistics, locations, and inventory. We close with personal resilience tools for those moments when you are doing “all the right things” but still feel overwhelmed.
Subscribe for more candid supply chain leadership conversations, share this with a colleague who is leading change, and leave a review with the one idea you are going to try next.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:10):
Good to have you here with us once again.
I'm Melanie Stern for ISM, andthis is Supply Chain Unfiltered.
We are going to talk aboutsomething kind of uh, let's say
slightly pertinent, and I saythat tongue-in-cheek, uh
pertinent for all of us rightnow, with all the changes going
on in uh across the professionand the way we do things, how we
(00:32):
survive.
Um, thought it would be a goodidea to uh, you know, kind of
talk through how we can be thechange agent who redefines
resiliency, because the way welook at resiliency, I I imagine
it it shifts quite often.
So to help us dissect throughthat, we have Manish Kapoor.
(00:53):
He's founder and CEO of GrowthCatalyst Group.
Hi Manish, thanks for beinghere.
SPEAKER_00 (00:59):
Good to be here.
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_02 (01:01):
So I, you know, as I ponder our topics, you know,
before we do the shows and I,you know, get my brain working.
And I was just kind ofwondering, do you think there's
a difference between a thoughtleader and a change agent, or
are they one and the same?
Or does it depend?
SPEAKER_00 (01:20):
Um, I believe they're different.
Now, one one person can be both,or one body can be both, but and
more often it's not the case.
It's almost like thought leader,I'd say, is the brain.
But the change leader, changeagent, is more the heart and the
muscle.
SPEAKER_01 (01:37):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:38):
Uh, because typically thought leader is is
coming up with innovation, newideas, you know, to actually try
the change.
But when it comes to execution,I believe that's even tougher.
Uh because execution-wise, firstof all, if you don't have a good
plan in place, uh you can'treally realize the vision that
(01:58):
you had.
Uh, but then the most difficultpart, especially if you if
you're taking people along withyou, uh, you have to win the
hearts and minds to get them onboard.
As human beings, change isalways difficult, regardless of
what that is.
Uh, and that's where you have toreally think about who are you
impacting, who are thestakeholders, what's in for
them, for them to get on boardand help enable that that
(02:21):
change, that leads to the visionthat the thought leader came up
with.
So yeah, I believe it's it'svery different.
SPEAKER_02 (02:26):
And have you have you been in circumstances, and
you know, maybe you're notcomfortable sharing this, but
where uh a thought leader and achange agent were kind of
butting heads.
Does that happen?
SPEAKER_00 (02:39):
Happens often, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (02:40):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (02:41):
In fact, I you know I've got a strong team.
Um I'm good at one and I have topush myself to be better at the
other one.
I'll let you get switched on aswitch.
But you know, I like even mydirect team, I have uh one
leader who's constantly come upwith new ideas, analytics,
right?
Strategy is always right.
(03:01):
But then the other leader cantake that and go execute on it.
And if I swap them, it's notgonna work.
SPEAKER_01 (03:07):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (03:08):
Neither one of them will be able to do the other
person's job.
So it's pretty clear in my mindthat these folks are wired
differently.
Uh but like I said, sometimesthere are folks out there that
are comfortable with bothwiring.
Uh hard to find.
SPEAKER_02 (03:21):
I imagine, yeah.
So so when you've got to getyour teams on board, you know,
and there's change coming, andobviously with that, you're
venturing into unknownterritory, and maybe it's
related to a product launch, um,a change in operations, um,
either one can put the companyin the position where you get
(03:43):
you're in the spotlight, right?
Um but being more in thespotlight, there may also be uh
an increase in vulnerability.
You make yourself morevulnerable every time you make a
change and you make it known.
Um so sometimes that makespeople uncomfortable, makes your
teams uncomfortable.
(04:04):
Um how so how do you keep themyou know in the game, so to
speak, and get keep themexcited, you know, as you go
through this unknown territory,at least in their perception?
SPEAKER_00 (04:17):
Yeah, I think a few things.
One, it's important to clearlyum articulate where we headed,
defining that North Star or theend goal that you're going
after, and being able to explainwhat the benefits are for that.
Why is it worth going afterthat?
Because unless you get thoseemotions going and make the
(04:37):
emotional connection, that hey,it's going to be worth going
through a change, because at theend we'll be better off.
It could be better financials,could be better service, but
defining that up front isimportant.
Then I think the second step ismaking sure that uh you have a
good roadmap to thatdestination.
Um, and it does in in you know,as much as you can think upfront
(05:01):
what kind of hurdles you'regoing to run into, so that
you're at least somewhatprepared and anticipating some
of the challenges that you'regonna run into.
And the third thing I'd say isit's yes, you you're driving
towards a certain goal.
It's important to first of alltrack the milestones and making
sure you're heading in the rightdirection at the right pace, but
(05:22):
also celebrating the small winsthat lead up to the big win.
Because some of these changescan be painful, yeah, but if
you're not really enjoying someof the small progress that
you're making, uh the smallprogresses add up to the to big.
So it's really important tocelebrate the wins as you go
along.
SPEAKER_02 (05:40):
And and when your company is in the midst of a
change, whatever that may be,um, and you you decide, okay,
yes, this is something we wantto work towards, this is
something we want to achieve.
How do you know when it's safeto go forward?
And because you're effectivelytaking a risk.
(06:02):
How do you know when it's safeand what what does that
calculation process look likewhen you're assessing that?
SPEAKER_00 (06:09):
Yeah, and so I think change within our business, or
as you as you know, that we helpmany companies go through
change, that's what we do issupply chain transformation.
Change is what we enable, if youhave to define us.
So as we go into thesecompanies, and typically the the
(06:29):
leadership team, their CEO, orthe owners, they describe what
the problem is.
Sometimes they they'redescribing the symptoms, not the
problem.
It's like going to a doctor andsaying, I have pain.
Can you please fix it?
Right?
So we have to go in and checkthe blood pressure and do a
health check to figure out, hey,that we're solving the right
(06:50):
things to begin with.
So that's important to definethat.
Um, and then as we start tothink about how we're gonna go
in and what's required to bedone, you start to think about
who all are you impacting.
So there's obviously processchanges, you bring in
technology, but at the end, it'sthe people side that tends to be
the most difficult as far aschanges change is concerned.
(07:12):
So I think thinking through howare we impacting them, and then
one of the things that I'velearned over the years is that
uh anytime we try and push achange to people who are not on
board, and it's not one of themthat is with us driving that
change, uh, it makes it moredifficult to do that.
So as we are assessing um thequestion that you asked, is
(07:36):
we're looking at, hey, what'sthe value that we're gonna
drive, deliver at the end?
What are the end results?
Is it worth it?
And it always changes, alwayscomes with a risk.
So you're measuring the riskversus value constantly, and
then you make a decision saying,hey, if I take it take a chance,
there's risk, but look at theimpact.
I'm gonna double the revenue orI'm gonna do something, the
(07:57):
financial impact is big.
Then you can say, okay, let's goafter it.
Now, if the risk is too high,you may say, you know what, not
now.
That happens.
Let's just wait.
But more often, what happens iswe say, let's pilot it, let's do
it in a small way, let's test itand make sure that our
assumptions, I have ourhypotheses, are correct.
Let's prove it in a smaller, lowrisk fashion.
(08:20):
And once you get the results, italso gives you an opportunity to
improve a little bit in case youfound that something was missing
in your what you planned.
Then you're able to fix itbefore you go big.
So I think pilots are verycommon in the changes that we
drive.
If we want to make change, forexample, in in five buildings,
we pick one first and make surewe've got a good play game plan.
(08:40):
We see the results and then westart to roll it out after.
SPEAKER_02 (08:43):
And so you this is what you do, this is what you
enjoy doing.
And so you've got, I'll say yourportfolio of work is just
stuffed with these experiences.
So I I want to share a couple,if that's okay.
So you created the first U.S.
centralized command and controlcenter for last mile at FedEx
(09:06):
and formed Advatix, helpinge-commerce companies realize
their potential.
Can you can you tell us a littlebit about those endeavors?
SPEAKER_00 (09:16):
Yeah, absolutely.
Uh so I was that honestly new tothe supply chain industry.
I came from a very differentindustry when I joined FedEx uh
when they when FedEx acquiredKinkos, I came from the print
side.
So I was given this challengesaying to how do you improve the
fleet that we had US wide?
Um, I didn't have theexperience, but I also didn't
(09:36):
have the baggage.
So one of the things I alwaysshare is that it's okay to get
outside of your comfort zone.
I believe that if you're feelinguncomfortable, it can also, it
mostly most cases means thatyou're growing, which means
you're getting into an areawhich you haven't handled
before.
So personally, uh I wasactually, to be honest, nervous
(09:58):
about picking up something I'venever done before.
But that I but I had theconviction, I had the drive to
say, okay, I want to make adifference here.
Uh so what happened there inthat case was uh this is many
years ago when the smartphoneswere not even out.
Uh, but we were starting to useGarmin's for routing.
And then thinking, okay, why arewe still using maps?
(10:20):
There is technology out there todo right live routing, right,
when you're driving and so on.
So we ended up building a driverapp on a push to talk phone
because smartphones were notout.
And it was a big challenge toget drivers who were using you
know normal flip phones to say,let's use this tiny screen, and
you gotta push buttons and soon.
Um, big change uh changeexperience there as well.
(10:44):
Um, got a lot of pushback fromfrom the field, you know, in
this case retail stores.
Um that was a big learning tosay, hey, I gotta take them
along.
Some of my change managementexperiences came from that as
well.
Uh, we ended up creating thiscentralized dispatch where I was
watching the drivers on myscreen many years before Uber
and Lyft came up.
(11:04):
So, similar to how in Uber youcan see your driver coming to
you, I was watching those dotsmove on my laptop.
Wow.
And so we ended up replacingdispatch functions across the
US, centralized it, that gave usa chance to put technology on it
and really make it significantlybetter.
Uh, and then through routeoptimization, we were able to
(11:25):
significantly cut the cut thefleet that was required, improve
the service tracking.
We were text messaging to uhcustomers that we were
delivering to, which meant thatwe could actually charge more
out of that.
Um, and that led to launching asame-day delivery for FedEx out
of that.
Oh, wow.
Fascinating experience.
Um, um, and one of the greatestcompanies that I worked for.
(11:46):
Uh, you may have seen in thenews uh just last last month,
uh, we lost the founder ofFedEx, yeah, uh one of the
strongest leaders that I've everworked with.
Um, so I mean it's it's a lossfor all of those who are in the
supply chain, because I thinkindirectly he's touched
everyone.
Uh that was uh what we did at atFedEx.
Um and I think actually a goodportion of the learnings I'm
(12:08):
applying even now when I'm outin companies, the the common
theme there was through changemanagement, if you have
functions that are being done atmultiple places, can you pick
and choose things that can becentralized that are common?
When you do that, you have anopportunity to improve it and
build a center of excellenceusing technology, and the impact
(12:29):
is much bigger out of that.
SPEAKER_01 (12:31):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (12:32):
So fast forward to now you mentioned Advanced uh
similar concept.
We have a command center now,10% in Dallas, 90% in India, and
we're tracking thousands oftrousers, thousands of trucks uh
from remote locations, right?
With live tracking anddispatching and and so on on
similar theme.
SPEAKER_02 (12:52):
So is there another um I'll say milestone in your
career that comes to mind, apivotal accomplishment that
you've been involved in um thatcontinues to the benefit the
profession today?
Something else you want toshare?
SPEAKER_00 (13:09):
Yeah, I think lots of pivotal moments.
Um I think the common theme inmy case is uh being okay picking
up something that nobody elsehas done before.
Fortunately, every job that Ihad in my corporate career was a
new role, every job sincecollege.
It was going and taking onsomething new.
(13:30):
I enjoy innovation uh inbringing operations and
technology together.
Um and I think but one pivotalmoment you might say typical
answer is hey, hey, I succeededin something that was pivotal.
Um but it's okay to fail aswell, in my mind.
So I think one pivotal momentfor me where I learned a lot was
actually out of a failure.
(13:52):
Uh interesting situation where Iwas trying to implement Lean Six
Sigma process improvement in inoperations.
I was a corporate guy, showed upat the at one of the 30 sites
that we had to fix uh with ateam of corporate guys and gals,
and we started to actually uhclean up the place and organize
(14:12):
it and so on.
Got some involvement from thelocal operations team the first
day, uh, a little bit secondday, but third day, they were
just they went back to their oldthing.
We were cleaning up.
Uh the manager came to me andsaid, Hey, this is amazing.
Are you gonna come here everymonth and do this for us?
I'm like, gosh.
Uh obviously, the changemanagement, my all the learnings
(14:34):
came from a good portion of fromthat failure.
And I had to step back and say,gosh, what am I missing?
And I reached out to the localuniversity.
I actually took one of theprofessors out for breakfast,
shared what had gone through,and very obvious to him because
that's what he does, he teaches,and he's like, gosh, no, you
went totally wrong.
You were trying to push forsomething that didn't they
(14:56):
didn't believe in, it was nottheir idea.
How are you gonna do it againwhen it becomes their idea?
So honestly, we changed the techthe approach completely, and we
actually had the managers flyinto one location for a training
program, two-day training, andwe did a day and a half of
training, and so instead ofapplying my our learnings of
(15:18):
Lean Six Sigma in that case, wetaught them the basic lessons on
that and then gave them theproblem to solve.
SPEAKER_01 (15:25):
Uh-huh.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (15:26):
So we knew where we wanted them to be, but we helped
them get there through coachingversus telling them how to do
it.
Uh the big lesson there was thatagain, anything, anytime you're
driving a change, improvingsomething, you've got to think
about the end users.
And then ideally you have totake them along.
Even better if it's if if you ifyou make it their idea or you
work with them to make sure thattheir input is included, the
(15:48):
change comes faster as well.
So that was pivotal, and I'vebeen since then, last couple of
decades, being applying thatlearning everywhere.
SPEAKER_01 (15:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:56):
I think what I'm sharing with our joint audience
is that hey, uh, don't be afraidto fail.
Every time you fail, it makesyou stronger.
As long as you pick up thelessons that you learn from
there and continue to apply forthat.
So I think some of my pivots arewhen actually I didn't succeed,
that's okay.
I'm okay with that because Iknow I'm going to get stronger
after that.
SPEAKER_02 (16:16):
And they make for great stories, right?
SPEAKER_00 (16:19):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (16:21):
Uh so let's give a nod to uh e-commerce businesses
for a second, um, becausethey've been under so much
stress lately because of youknow tariffs, supply chain
disruption.
And I'm wondering, is there atactical course of action that
you recommend they take so thatthey can stay buoyant in these
(16:42):
you know volatile times?
SPEAKER_00 (16:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think the obviously tariffs isone thing, but the back and
forth our tariffs, theuncertainty, tariffs are on,
tariffs are off.
That's caused a lot of strain insupply chains, especially for
e-commerce companies.
We've had uh companies that cometo say, hey, we're manufacturing
in China.
Now we're looking at changingthat source.
(17:07):
And similarly, we've beenselling in the US, we're now
looking at other markets tostabilize, seem like things are
unstable.
Those are the questions thatwere posed to us.
And the approach, the guidancethat we've given is is hey,
clear step back and think aboutwhat's what you can control and
what you cannot control.
The decision of tariffs isreally not in these businesses'
(17:28):
hands, but how do you react toit, how do you adapt to it?
That's in your control.
And so we did somethingunconventional, which is
starting to say, okay, for amoment, forget about tariffs and
the impacts.
Let's look at the rest of yourbusiness.
Are you as efficient as possiblein how you're operating today?
Financially, process-wise,service-wise, are there other
(17:51):
areas that you can better getbetter at?
Because if you're healthyfinancially, you can you can
fight the disease better.
In this case, you know, uh thechallenges uh is the tariffs.
So we help companies pivot andthink about hey, how can you
optimize your existingoperations?
Um, and then in that I can sharea framework that we use.
We call it L cube I.
(18:13):
It's L L L to the power of threei.
And those three L's are labor,logistics, and locations.
Um, and then I is inventory.
So all these e-commercecompanies, if you think about
take a step back, these are thebig areas where they're spending
money.
It's their buildings, which isthe location, it's labor cost,
(18:35):
um, and logistics shipping, andthen inventory is where they
are.
So as we start to dig in, we'rehelping these helping these
companies improve theirprocesses, have better
forecasting.
If they get financially strongerin these areas using that
framework, then they're able tofight the ups and downs better
as the as the tariffs and otherexternal forces cause any any
(18:57):
challenges.
SPEAKER_02 (18:58):
And I'm glad you mentioned uh warehousing and
logistics.
Um I uh I recently you knowcaught a graphic image, I think
it was earlier this week,showing how the last few years
it was really tough to secure awarehouse space.
Um you know, there was such ashort supply, and now all of a
(19:19):
sudden that's shifting ratherquickly.
Um so what with all thesechanges going on, do you have an
uh you know an idea?
And I know things can changeovernight.
Um, what the ideal warehousingand logistics model would be for
small businesses, say five yearsfrom now, like and and or what
(19:40):
should they aspire to and why?
SPEAKER_00 (19:42):
Yeah, and I think you you mentioned the size of
the business.
You know, if you're large enoughto have your own network on
buildings, then the answer isslightly different.
Uh but if you're a young companystarting up as an e-commerce and
so on, I'd say I've I've seen anumber of our customer-based
young companies uh run intoheadwinds when they have too
(20:05):
much fixed cost.
Uh, which means that if you'releasing, you don't have a choice
whether you use half thebuilding or full building,
right?
Or certain month your volume isup or down, you still have to
pay the rent.
So that's a fixed costsituation.
And so if they have anopportunity to avoid that, at
least initially, it's a betterway to go, which means that many
(20:26):
of these companies already usewhat's called 3PL or third-party
logistics warehousing companies,which one of our operating
companies is actually two ofthem is in the warehousing.
What that does is it reduces therisk for the e-commerce company.
Um, and the three PLs obviouslyare multi-tenant in the sense
they are serving multiplecustomers out of the same
(20:47):
building.
So it gives them a chance tokeep the cost low, but also
fight the ups and downs, theuncertainty that comes in.
So I think 3PL is a is a good uhgood way to go.
Um having said that, on theother side, large companies, if
you if you have your ownnetwork, I think it's really
important to stay close towhat's going on in the
(21:07):
macroeconomic environment andhow the leases are uh the rents
are going up and down, which isdriven by the demand.
And you're right, just two yearsago, we couldn't find any space
anywhere.
It was all maxed out.
And what what that did was therents just went through the
roof.
Uh and then suddenly it went theother way around now.
(21:28):
So, how do you write that up anddown, ups and downs?
I think first is to stay closeto those trends, watch it
closely.
Um, but also then just watchingdoesn't help.
You have to adapt your plans tothe changes that are happening.
Uh so for example, when the whenthe the rents went up, we
advised all these companies tomake sure that you're able to go
(21:48):
back and talk to your customersand cover that cost, because
otherwise you're gonna be underpretty quickly.
And in most cases, if youcommunicate well, you talk to
your customers in a timelyfashion, They're willing to work
with you if you're partneringwell.
Because they most good companieswant their suppliers to stay
healthy overall.
So when it comes to warehousing,that's the advice we give is
(22:11):
watch it closely, but beprepared to adapt and then
communicate with yourstakeholders, your suppliers and
customers, and buildpartnerships versus
customer-vender relationships asmuch as possible.
That's what comes handy whenit's tough time.
It's the people that you builtthose relationships with.
If you care for them, they careback.
(22:31):
So just take care of yoursuppliers so that they help you
in tough times like that.
SPEAKER_02 (22:37):
So I I want to um ask you something, and it's
taking the subject of changemore on a personal level.
So let's say it's someone thatyou work with and they, you
know, they come up to you andsay, Manish.
(22:57):
You know, we have to operatewith resiliency, but you know,
to tell you the truth on apersonal level, I'm just not
feeling very resilient rightnow.
So what what do you think?
Like in a nutshell, what does ittake for each of us as
individuals to be resilient andto live resilient?
SPEAKER_00 (23:18):
Oh, great question.
It's also a personal questionfor me as well as an
entrepreneur.
SPEAKER_02 (23:23):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (23:24):
Um, you know, I talk about since my business school
I've done 10 years in corporateand 10 years in
entrepreneurship, almost balanceright now.
Many different uh uh traits thatare required to succeed.
In corporate, it's I'd say thetop one is influencing, as long
as you can influence your CFOwith a business case and get
people on board.
We talked about changemanagement.
(23:45):
When it comes toentrepreneurship, it's pure
perseverance, uh, which is to beable to be okay with you know
the ups and downs, and you fail,you still get up and move.
Uh I'm sharing that backdrop toto summarize what I believe is
important, and I think I touchedon some of that.
Uh number one is hey, uh again,be okay to be uncomfortable.
(24:09):
Actually, it's it's a sign thatyou're learning, you're doing
something, something different,which also says, hey, you're
taking a risk.
Which means that you it'spossible that you might fail.
So being okay mentally, I meanthis is something that you have
to tell yourself, hey, if Idon't push myself, uh then I
can't grow.
So that sometimes out.
The second one I'd say is toalways remember that nothing is
(24:32):
forever.
And conditions change,macroeconomic, weather, you
know, global warming, all thatis going on.
All that to say that what's ifyou're in a tough spot today,
believe that it's going tochange, it's gonna get better.
And that when you're in thetough spot helps you stay stay
(24:52):
stable, calm, be able to dealwith that in a rational fashion,
um, because it will get over atthat point.
Um, and then the third one I'dsay is uh just remember the
setbacks are opportunities toget stronger.
And so being mentally preparedto say, hey, you know, setbacks
will happen uh when you'redriving change, and it's okay
(25:14):
because you're gonna learn andyou're gonna get stronger out of
that.
One technique that I I use whenthings start to feel
overwhelming uh is to chunk intosmall pieces.
So if you start to think aboutwhat's gonna happen next year,
it can be overdaunting andoverwhelming.
It gives a limited uhinformation that you have, plus
you don't have control overwhat's gonna happen in future
for the most part.
(25:35):
And so bringing it down to asmaller chunk, let's solve for
this month, even a day, in somecases, even down to an hour.
Uh chunking into small bytesactually gives you a chance to
think rationally and overcomethe hurdles like this.
Uh, but those are personalpractices.
Um, these are just my what worksfor me.
(25:56):
Doesn't mean that it would workfor everyone.
Last piece I'd say is hey, uh,you gotta find your think about
what works for you and come upwith your own techniques to uh
to enjoy the ups and and ridethe downs, right?
Uh because it's gonna go upagain at the end.
SPEAKER_02 (26:12):
That's so helpful and uh so appreciate you and
thank you for being here.
Um it's we all need you knowwise words to go by, you know,
when things don't go our way.
So thank you so much.
Um Anish Kapoor, founder and CEOof Growth Catalyst Group.
Um, for anyone that wants tocontinue chatting with you, um,
(26:34):
how how would you like them todo that?
SPEAKER_00 (26:36):
I think LinkedIn is a great way to connect.
Uh happy to share uh whoeverwants to discuss an email and
cell phone, but I think LinkedInwould be a good way to start.
SPEAKER_02 (26:45):
Thank you.
Thank you again.
SPEAKER_00 (26:47):
Really enjoyed it.
Thanks for the opportunity aswell.
SPEAKER_02 (26:49):
Anytime, anytime.
Um I uh I would also suggest uhif you get those moments of
overwhelm or feel like you needto uh be with your peers and
share your thoughts and get somegreat ideas going, just check
out ismworld.org.
We have uh thought leaders,change agents, um, emerging
(27:13):
professionals.
Everybody's in this together,and it's a great resource for
you.
So I invite you to do that.
Um again, ismworld.org.
Thanks so much for tuning in.
Appreciate you as well.
I'm Melanie Stern for ISM.
Good to have you here with us once again.
I'm Melanie Stern for ISM, andthis is Supply Chain Unfiltered.
We are going to talk aboutsomething kind of uh, let's say
slightly pertinent, and I saythat tongue-in-cheek, uh
pertinent for all of us rightnow, with all the changes going
on in uh across the professionand the way we do things, how we
(00:32):
survive.
Um, thought it would be a goodidea to uh, you know, kind of
talk through how we can be thechange agent who redefines
resiliency, because the way welook at resiliency, I I imagine
it it shifts quite often.
So to help us dissect throughthat, we have Manish Kapoor.
(00:53):
He's founder and CEO of GrowthCatalyst Group.
Hi Manish, thanks for beinghere.
SPEAKER_00 (00:59):
Good to be here.
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_02 (01:01):
So I, you know, as I ponder our topics, you know,
before we do the shows and I,you know, get my brain working.
And I was just kind ofwondering, do you think there's
a difference between a thoughtleader and a change agent, or
are they one and the same?
Or does it depend?
SPEAKER_00 (01:20):
Um, I believe they're different.
Now, one one person can be both,or one body can be both, but and
more often it's not the case.
It's almost like thought leader,I'd say, is the brain.
But the change leader, changeagent, is more the heart and the
muscle.
SPEAKER_01 (01:37):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:38):
Uh, because typically thought leader is is
coming up with innovation, newideas, you know, to actually try
the change.
But when it comes to execution,I believe that's even tougher.
Uh because execution-wise, firstof all, if you don't have a good
plan in place, uh you can'treally realize the vision that
(01:58):
you had.
Uh, but then the most difficultpart, especially if you if
you're taking people along withyou, uh, you have to win the
hearts and minds to get them onboard.
As human beings, change isalways difficult, regardless of
what that is.
Uh, and that's where you have toreally think about who are you
impacting, who are thestakeholders, what's in for
them, for them to get on boardand help enable that that
(02:21):
change, that leads to the visionthat the thought leader came up
with.
So yeah, I believe it's it'svery different.
SPEAKER_02 (02:26):
And have you have you been in circumstances, and
you know, maybe you're notcomfortable sharing this, but
where uh a thought leader and achange agent were kind of
butting heads.
Does that happen?
SPEAKER_00 (02:39):
Happens often, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (02:40):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (02:41):
In fact, I you know I've got a strong team.
Um I'm good at one and I have topush myself to be better at the
other one.
I'll let you get switched on aswitch.
But you know, I like even mydirect team, I have uh one
leader who's constantly come upwith new ideas, analytics,
right?
Strategy is always right.
(03:01):
But then the other leader cantake that and go execute on it.
And if I swap them, it's notgonna work.
SPEAKER_01 (03:07):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (03:08):
Neither one of them will be able to do the other
person's job.
So it's pretty clear in my mindthat these folks are wired
differently.
Uh but like I said, sometimesthere are folks out there that
are comfortable with bothwiring.
Uh hard to find.
SPEAKER_02 (03:21):
I imagine, yeah.
So so when you've got to getyour teams on board, you know,
and there's change coming, andobviously with that, you're
venturing into unknownterritory, and maybe it's
related to a product launch, um,a change in operations, um,
either one can put the companyin the position where you get
(03:43):
you're in the spotlight, right?
Um but being more in thespotlight, there may also be uh
an increase in vulnerability.
You make yourself morevulnerable every time you make a
change and you make it known.
Um so sometimes that makespeople uncomfortable, makes your
teams uncomfortable.
(04:04):
Um how so how do you keep themyou know in the game, so to
speak, and get keep themexcited, you know, as you go
through this unknown territory,at least in their perception?
SPEAKER_00 (04:17):
Yeah, I think a few things.
One, it's important to clearlyum articulate where we headed,
defining that North Star or theend goal that you're going
after, and being able to explainwhat the benefits are for that.
Why is it worth going afterthat?
Because unless you get thoseemotions going and make the
(04:37):
emotional connection, that hey,it's going to be worth going
through a change, because at theend we'll be better off.
It could be better financials,could be better service, but
defining that up front isimportant.
Then I think the second step ismaking sure that uh you have a
good roadmap to thatdestination.
Um, and it does in in you know,as much as you can think upfront
(05:01):
what kind of hurdles you'regoing to run into, so that
you're at least somewhatprepared and anticipating some
of the challenges that you'regonna run into.
And the third thing I'd say isit's yes, you you're driving
towards a certain goal.
It's important to first of alltrack the milestones and making
sure you're heading in the rightdirection at the right pace, but
(05:22):
also celebrating the small winsthat lead up to the big win.
Because some of these changescan be painful, yeah, but if
you're not really enjoying someof the small progress that
you're making, uh the smallprogresses add up to the to big.
So it's really important tocelebrate the wins as you go
along.
SPEAKER_02 (05:40):
And and when your company is in the midst of a
change, whatever that may be,um, and you you decide, okay,
yes, this is something we wantto work towards, this is
something we want to achieve.
How do you know when it's safeto go forward?
And because you're effectivelytaking a risk.
(06:02):
How do you know when it's safeand what what does that
calculation process look likewhen you're assessing that?
SPEAKER_00 (06:09):
Yeah, and so I think change within our business, or
as you as you know, that we helpmany companies go through
change, that's what we do issupply chain transformation.
Change is what we enable, if youhave to define us.
So as we go into thesecompanies, and typically the the
(06:29):
leadership team, their CEO, orthe owners, they describe what
the problem is.
Sometimes they they'redescribing the symptoms, not the
problem.
It's like going to a doctor andsaying, I have pain.
Can you please fix it?
Right?
So we have to go in and checkthe blood pressure and do a
health check to figure out, hey,that we're solving the right
(06:50):
things to begin with.
So that's important to definethat.
Um, and then as we start tothink about how we're gonna go
in and what's required to bedone, you start to think about
who all are you impacting.
So there's obviously processchanges, you bring in
technology, but at the end, it'sthe people side that tends to be
the most difficult as far aschanges change is concerned.
(07:12):
So I think thinking through howare we impacting them, and then
one of the things that I'velearned over the years is that
uh anytime we try and push achange to people who are not on
board, and it's not one of themthat is with us driving that
change, uh, it makes it moredifficult to do that.
So as we are assessing um thequestion that you asked, is
(07:36):
we're looking at, hey, what'sthe value that we're gonna
drive, deliver at the end?
What are the end results?
Is it worth it?
And it always changes, alwayscomes with a risk.
So you're measuring the riskversus value constantly, and
then you make a decision saying,hey, if I take it take a chance,
there's risk, but look at theimpact.
I'm gonna double the revenue orI'm gonna do something, the
(07:57):
financial impact is big.
Then you can say, okay, let's goafter it.
Now, if the risk is too high,you may say, you know what, not
now.
That happens.
Let's just wait.
But more often, what happens iswe say, let's pilot it, let's do
it in a small way, let's test itand make sure that our
assumptions, I have ourhypotheses, are correct.
Let's prove it in a smaller, lowrisk fashion.
(08:20):
And once you get the results, italso gives you an opportunity to
improve a little bit in case youfound that something was missing
in your what you planned.
Then you're able to fix itbefore you go big.
So I think pilots are verycommon in the changes that we
drive.
If we want to make change, forexample, in in five buildings,
we pick one first and make surewe've got a good play game plan.
(08:40):
We see the results and then westart to roll it out after.
SPEAKER_02 (08:43):
And so you this is what you do, this is what you
enjoy doing.
And so you've got, I'll say yourportfolio of work is just
stuffed with these experiences.
So I I want to share a couple,if that's okay.
So you created the first U.S.
centralized command and controlcenter for last mile at FedEx
(09:06):
and formed Advatix, helpinge-commerce companies realize
their potential.
Can you can you tell us a littlebit about those endeavors?
SPEAKER_00 (09:16):
Yeah, absolutely.
Uh so I was that honestly new tothe supply chain industry.
I came from a very differentindustry when I joined FedEx uh
when they when FedEx acquiredKinkos, I came from the print
side.
So I was given this challengesaying to how do you improve the
fleet that we had US wide?
Um, I didn't have theexperience, but I also didn't
(09:36):
have the baggage.
So one of the things I alwaysshare is that it's okay to get
outside of your comfort zone.
I believe that if you're feelinguncomfortable, it can also, it
mostly most cases means thatyou're growing, which means
you're getting into an areawhich you haven't handled
before.
So personally, uh I wasactually, to be honest, nervous
(09:58):
about picking up something I'venever done before.
But that I but I had theconviction, I had the drive to
say, okay, I want to make adifference here.
Uh so what happened there inthat case was uh this is many
years ago when the smartphoneswere not even out.
Uh, but we were starting to useGarmin's for routing.
And then thinking, okay, why arewe still using maps?
(10:20):
There is technology out there todo right live routing, right,
when you're driving and so on.
So we ended up building a driverapp on a push to talk phone
because smartphones were notout.
And it was a big challenge toget drivers who were using you
know normal flip phones to say,let's use this tiny screen, and
you gotta push buttons and soon.
Um, big change uh changeexperience there as well.
(10:44):
Um, got a lot of pushback fromfrom the field, you know, in
this case retail stores.
Um that was a big learning tosay, hey, I gotta take them
along.
Some of my change managementexperiences came from that as
well.
Uh, we ended up creating thiscentralized dispatch where I was
watching the drivers on myscreen many years before Uber
and Lyft came up.
(11:04):
So, similar to how in Uber youcan see your driver coming to
you, I was watching those dotsmove on my laptop.
Wow.
And so we ended up replacingdispatch functions across the
US, centralized it, that gave usa chance to put technology on it
and really make it significantlybetter.
Uh, and then through routeoptimization, we were able to
(11:25):
significantly cut the cut thefleet that was required, improve
the service tracking.
We were text messaging to uhcustomers that we were
delivering to, which meant thatwe could actually charge more
out of that.
Um, and that led to launching asame-day delivery for FedEx out
of that.
Oh, wow.
Fascinating experience.
Um, um, and one of the greatestcompanies that I worked for.
(11:46):
Uh, you may have seen in thenews uh just last last month,
uh, we lost the founder ofFedEx, yeah, uh one of the
strongest leaders that I've everworked with.
Um, so I mean it's it's a lossfor all of those who are in the
supply chain, because I thinkindirectly he's touched
everyone.
Uh that was uh what we did at atFedEx.
Um and I think actually a goodportion of the learnings I'm
(12:08):
applying even now when I'm outin companies, the the common
theme there was through changemanagement, if you have
functions that are being done atmultiple places, can you pick
and choose things that can becentralized that are common?
When you do that, you have anopportunity to improve it and
build a center of excellenceusing technology, and the impact
(12:29):
is much bigger out of that.
SPEAKER_01 (12:31):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (12:32):
So fast forward to now you mentioned Advanced uh
similar concept.
We have a command center now,10% in Dallas, 90% in India, and
we're tracking thousands oftrousers, thousands of trucks uh
from remote locations, right?
With live tracking anddispatching and and so on on
similar theme.
SPEAKER_02 (12:52):
So is there another um I'll say milestone in your
career that comes to mind, apivotal accomplishment that
you've been involved in um thatcontinues to the benefit the
profession today?
Something else you want toshare?
SPEAKER_00 (13:09):
Yeah, I think lots of pivotal moments.
Um I think the common theme inmy case is uh being okay picking
up something that nobody elsehas done before.
Fortunately, every job that Ihad in my corporate career was a
new role, every job sincecollege.
It was going and taking onsomething new.
(13:30):
I enjoy innovation uh inbringing operations and
technology together.
Um and I think but one pivotalmoment you might say typical
answer is hey, hey, I succeededin something that was pivotal.
Um but it's okay to fail aswell, in my mind.
So I think one pivotal momentfor me where I learned a lot was
actually out of a failure.
(13:52):
Uh interesting situation where Iwas trying to implement Lean Six
Sigma process improvement in inoperations.
I was a corporate guy, showed upat the at one of the 30 sites
that we had to fix uh with ateam of corporate guys and gals,
and we started to actually uhclean up the place and organize
(14:12):
it and so on.
Got some involvement from thelocal operations team the first
day, uh, a little bit secondday, but third day, they were
just they went back to their oldthing.
We were cleaning up.
Uh the manager came to me andsaid, Hey, this is amazing.
Are you gonna come here everymonth and do this for us?
I'm like, gosh.
Uh obviously, the changemanagement, my all the learnings
(14:34):
came from a good portion of fromthat failure.
And I had to step back and say,gosh, what am I missing?
And I reached out to the localuniversity.
I actually took one of theprofessors out for breakfast,
shared what had gone through,and very obvious to him because
that's what he does, he teaches,and he's like, gosh, no, you
went totally wrong.
You were trying to push forsomething that didn't they
(14:56):
didn't believe in, it was nottheir idea.
How are you gonna do it againwhen it becomes their idea?
So honestly, we changed the techthe approach completely, and we
actually had the managers flyinto one location for a training
program, two-day training, andwe did a day and a half of
training, and so instead ofapplying my our learnings of
(15:18):
Lean Six Sigma in that case, wetaught them the basic lessons on
that and then gave them theproblem to solve.
SPEAKER_01 (15:25):
Uh-huh.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (15:26):
So we knew where we wanted them to be, but we helped
them get there through coachingversus telling them how to do
it.
Uh the big lesson there was thatagain, anything, anytime you're
driving a change, improvingsomething, you've got to think
about the end users.
And then ideally you have totake them along.
Even better if it's if if you ifyou make it their idea or you
work with them to make sure thattheir input is included, the
(15:48):
change comes faster as well.
So that was pivotal, and I'vebeen since then, last couple of
decades, being applying thatlearning everywhere.
SPEAKER_01 (15:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:56):
I think what I'm sharing with our joint audience
is that hey, uh, don't be afraidto fail.
Every time you fail, it makesyou stronger.
As long as you pick up thelessons that you learn from
there and continue to apply forthat.
So I think some of my pivots arewhen actually I didn't succeed,
that's okay.
I'm okay with that because Iknow I'm going to get stronger
after that.
SPEAKER_02 (16:16):
And they make for great stories, right?
SPEAKER_00 (16:19):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (16:21):
Uh so let's give a nod to uh e-commerce businesses
for a second, um, becausethey've been under so much
stress lately because of youknow tariffs, supply chain
disruption.
And I'm wondering, is there atactical course of action that
you recommend they take so thatthey can stay buoyant in these
(16:42):
you know volatile times?
SPEAKER_00 (16:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think the obviously tariffs isone thing, but the back and
forth our tariffs, theuncertainty, tariffs are on,
tariffs are off.
That's caused a lot of strain insupply chains, especially for
e-commerce companies.
We've had uh companies that cometo say, hey, we're manufacturing
in China.
Now we're looking at changingthat source.
(17:07):
And similarly, we've beenselling in the US, we're now
looking at other markets tostabilize, seem like things are
unstable.
Those are the questions thatwere posed to us.
And the approach, the guidancethat we've given is is hey,
clear step back and think aboutwhat's what you can control and
what you cannot control.
The decision of tariffs isreally not in these businesses'
(17:28):
hands, but how do you react toit, how do you adapt to it?
That's in your control.
And so we did somethingunconventional, which is
starting to say, okay, for amoment, forget about tariffs and
the impacts.
Let's look at the rest of yourbusiness.
Are you as efficient as possiblein how you're operating today?
Financially, process-wise,service-wise, are there other
(17:51):
areas that you can better getbetter at?
Because if you're healthyfinancially, you can you can
fight the disease better.
In this case, you know, uh thechallenges uh is the tariffs.
So we help companies pivot andthink about hey, how can you
optimize your existingoperations?
Um, and then in that I can sharea framework that we use.
We call it L cube I.
(18:13):
It's L L L to the power of threei.
And those three L's are labor,logistics, and locations.
Um, and then I is inventory.
So all these e-commercecompanies, if you think about
take a step back, these are thebig areas where they're spending
money.
It's their buildings, which isthe location, it's labor cost,
(18:35):
um, and logistics shipping, andthen inventory is where they
are.
So as we start to dig in, we'rehelping these helping these
companies improve theirprocesses, have better
forecasting.
If they get financially strongerin these areas using that
framework, then they're able tofight the ups and downs better
as the as the tariffs and otherexternal forces cause any any
(18:57):
challenges.
SPEAKER_02 (18:58):
And I'm glad you mentioned uh warehousing and
logistics.
Um I uh I recently you knowcaught a graphic image, I think
it was earlier this week,showing how the last few years
it was really tough to secure awarehouse space.
Um you know, there was such ashort supply, and now all of a
(19:19):
sudden that's shifting ratherquickly.
Um so what with all thesechanges going on, do you have an
uh you know an idea?
And I know things can changeovernight.
Um, what the ideal warehousingand logistics model would be for
small businesses, say five yearsfrom now, like and and or what
(19:40):
should they aspire to and why?
SPEAKER_00 (19:42):
Yeah, and I think you you mentioned the size of
the business.
You know, if you're large enoughto have your own network on
buildings, then the answer isslightly different.
Uh but if you're a young companystarting up as an e-commerce and
so on, I'd say I've I've seen anumber of our customer-based
young companies uh run intoheadwinds when they have too
(20:05):
much fixed cost.
Uh, which means that if you'releasing, you don't have a choice
whether you use half thebuilding or full building,
right?
Or certain month your volume isup or down, you still have to
pay the rent.
So that's a fixed costsituation.
And so if they have anopportunity to avoid that, at
least initially, it's a betterway to go, which means that many
(20:26):
of these companies already usewhat's called 3PL or third-party
logistics warehousing companies,which one of our operating
companies is actually two ofthem is in the warehousing.
What that does is it reduces therisk for the e-commerce company.
Um, and the three PLs obviouslyare multi-tenant in the sense
they are serving multiplecustomers out of the same
(20:47):
building.
So it gives them a chance tokeep the cost low, but also
fight the ups and downs, theuncertainty that comes in.
So I think 3PL is a is a good uhgood way to go.
Um having said that, on theother side, large companies, if
you if you have your ownnetwork, I think it's really
important to stay close towhat's going on in the
(21:07):
macroeconomic environment andhow the leases are uh the rents
are going up and down, which isdriven by the demand.
And you're right, just two yearsago, we couldn't find any space
anywhere.
It was all maxed out.
And what what that did was therents just went through the
roof.
Uh and then suddenly it went theother way around now.
(21:28):
So, how do you write that up anddown, ups and downs?
I think first is to stay closeto those trends, watch it
closely.
Um, but also then just watchingdoesn't help.
You have to adapt your plans tothe changes that are happening.
Uh so for example, when the whenthe the rents went up, we
advised all these companies tomake sure that you're able to go
(21:48):
back and talk to your customersand cover that cost, because
otherwise you're gonna be underpretty quickly.
And in most cases, if youcommunicate well, you talk to
your customers in a timelyfashion, They're willing to work
with you if you're partneringwell.
Because they most good companieswant their suppliers to stay
healthy overall.
So when it comes to warehousing,that's the advice we give is
(22:11):
watch it closely, but beprepared to adapt and then
communicate with yourstakeholders, your suppliers and
customers, and buildpartnerships versus
customer-vender relationships asmuch as possible.
That's what comes handy whenit's tough time.
It's the people that you builtthose relationships with.
If you care for them, they careback.
(22:31):
So just take care of yoursuppliers so that they help you
in tough times like that.
SPEAKER_02 (22:37):
So I I want to um ask you something, and it's
taking the subject of changemore on a personal level.
So let's say it's someone thatyou work with and they, you
know, they come up to you andsay, Manish.
(22:57):
You know, we have to operatewith resiliency, but you know,
to tell you the truth on apersonal level, I'm just not
feeling very resilient rightnow.
So what what do you think?
Like in a nutshell, what does ittake for each of us as
individuals to be resilient andto live resilient?
SPEAKER_00 (23:18):
Oh, great question.
It's also a personal questionfor me as well as an
entrepreneur.
SPEAKER_02 (23:23):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (23:24):
Um, you know, I talk about since my business school
I've done 10 years in corporateand 10 years in
entrepreneurship, almost balanceright now.
Many different uh uh traits thatare required to succeed.
In corporate, it's I'd say thetop one is influencing, as long
as you can influence your CFOwith a business case and get
people on board.
We talked about changemanagement.
(23:45):
When it comes toentrepreneurship, it's pure
perseverance, uh, which is to beable to be okay with you know
the ups and downs, and you fail,you still get up and move.
Uh I'm sharing that backdrop toto summarize what I believe is
important, and I think I touchedon some of that.
Uh number one is hey, uh again,be okay to be uncomfortable.
(24:09):
Actually, it's it's a sign thatyou're learning, you're doing
something, something different,which also says, hey, you're
taking a risk.
Which means that you it'spossible that you might fail.
So being okay mentally, I meanthis is something that you have
to tell yourself, hey, if Idon't push myself, uh then I
can't grow.
So that sometimes out.
The second one I'd say is toalways remember that nothing is
(24:32):
forever.
And conditions change,macroeconomic, weather, you
know, global warming, all thatis going on.
All that to say that what's ifyou're in a tough spot today,
believe that it's going tochange, it's gonna get better.
And that when you're in thetough spot helps you stay stay
(24:52):
stable, calm, be able to dealwith that in a rational fashion,
um, because it will get over atthat point.
Um, and then the third one I'dsay is uh just remember the
setbacks are opportunities toget stronger.
And so being mentally preparedto say, hey, you know, setbacks
will happen uh when you'redriving change, and it's okay
(25:14):
because you're gonna learn andyou're gonna get stronger out of
that.
One technique that I I use whenthings start to feel
overwhelming uh is to chunk intosmall pieces.
So if you start to think aboutwhat's gonna happen next year,
it can be overdaunting andoverwhelming.
It gives a limited uhinformation that you have, plus
you don't have control overwhat's gonna happen in future
for the most part.
(25:35):
And so bringing it down to asmaller chunk, let's solve for
this month, even a day, in somecases, even down to an hour.
Uh chunking into small bytesactually gives you a chance to
think rationally and overcomethe hurdles like this.
Uh, but those are personalpractices.
Um, these are just my what worksfor me.
(25:56):
Doesn't mean that it would workfor everyone.
Last piece I'd say is hey, uh,you gotta find your think about
what works for you and come upwith your own techniques to uh
to enjoy the ups and and ridethe downs, right?
Uh because it's gonna go upagain at the end.
SPEAKER_02 (26:12):
That's so helpful and uh so appreciate you and
thank you for being here.
Um it's we all need you knowwise words to go by, you know,
when things don't go our way.
So thank you so much.
Um Anish Kapoor, founder and CEOof Growth Catalyst Group.
Um, for anyone that wants tocontinue chatting with you, um,
(26:34):
how how would you like them todo that?
SPEAKER_00 (26:36):
I think LinkedIn is a great way to connect.
Uh happy to share uh whoeverwants to discuss an email and
cell phone, but I think LinkedInwould be a good way to start.
SPEAKER_02 (26:45):
Thank you.
Thank you again.
SPEAKER_00 (26:47):
Really enjoyed it.
Thanks for the opportunity aswell.
SPEAKER_02 (26:49):
Anytime, anytime.
Um I uh I would also suggest uhif you get those moments of
overwhelm or feel like you needto uh be with your peers and
share your thoughts and get somegreat ideas going, just check
out ismworld.org.
We have uh thought leaders,change agents, um, emerging
(27:13):
professionals.
Everybody's in this together,and it's a great resource for
you.
So I invite you to do that.
Um again, ismworld.org.
Thanks so much for tuning in.
Appreciate you as well.
I'm Melanie Stern for ISM.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com